Fin vs History - Look How Good I Am At Drawing Apples | The Renaissance Part 2: Holland

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

Why is Dutch art so weird? The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened.  For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon https://www.patreon.com/fintaylor?utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ontario, the wait is over. The gold standard of online casinos has arrived. Golden Nugget Online Casino is live. Bringing Vegas-style excitement and a world-class gaming experience right to your fingertips. Whether you're a seasoned player or just starting, signing up is fast and simple. And in just a few clicks, you can have access to our exclusive library of the best slots and top-tier table games. Make the most of your downtime with unbeatable promotions and jackpots that can turn any mundane moment into a golden, opportunity at Golden Nugget Online Casino. Take a spin on the slots, challenge yourself at the

tables, or join a live dealer game to feel the thrill of real-time action, all from the comfort of your own devices. Why settle for less when you can go for the gold at Golden Nugget Online Casino. Gambling problem call connects Ontario 1866531-260. 19 and over, physically present in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. Reading, playing, learning. Stellist lenses do more than just correct your child's vision. They slow down the progression of myopia. So your child can continue to discover all the world has to offer through their own eyes.

Light the path to a brighter future with stellar lenses for myopia control. Learn more at SLOR.com. And ask your family eye care professional for SLR Stellist lenses at your child's next visit. Wendy's most important deal of the day has a fresh lineup. Pick any two breakfast items for $4. New four-piece French toast sticks, bacon or sausage wrap, biscuit or English muffin sandwiches, small hot coffee and more. Limited time only at participating Wendy's Taxes Extra. Before we get cracking with today's episode of Film vs History, we just want to let you know that our Patreon bonus episode this week is a mammoth, 75-minute Zulu special.

Concert film. It's a concert film of our... It was recorded over two nights in Lest Square Thes, London. About the Anglo-Zulu War, the heroic action at Rorke's drift. British bravely falls off a war crime of the Zulus. That's on the Patreon

as of tomorrow Friday. Where for three pounds a month, you get access to loads of bonus episodes. Yeah, best patron in the world. We recently hit 10,000 members. Incredible. Isn't that amazing? And if you missed out on the live shows,

that's about how many Zulus are fighting at is Oranda. How many Guilty Zulus? of this war crime. Indite them all. Hang them. There's a lot of generational shame about the guilt

they must feel. There should be. There should be. If you want to see us live, there are still tickets to see us for our October live tour. But they're going fast.

We're also doing a date. Couple of quid for a pint of fish. And the Edinburgh Fringe on the 8th of August. Anyway, on with the episode. Welcome back, you scraughty little pigs. Hello! I'm Joy.

This is Finn versus History. I'm sat next to her ratio, Gould. Hello. What's that? You've come back for more greens. More? You want your second dose of veg in a week. You're going to be shitting like mad of this much fibre.

My God, this is fibre of stuff. Yeah. This is our second part in our Renaissance series. We'll be, well, cards on the table. Some weeks, we do more research than others. Yes. Often one of us will do more than the other and they can carry it.

We've ended up unluckily neither doing any research. It's been a Mexican standoff this week. It's going to do the research. I ended up watching the film Zulu instead of doing any research about the Renaissance. I was just staring at the ceiling, dribbling. So this is the second part. This is the Northern Renaissance, right?

So it's moved from Italy. This is more interesting to me. I prefer these sort of paintings actually. That's interesting. Yeah. Is it? no none of this is interesting is it

I prefer it because I my favourite paintings if I can get real with you guys are Dutch ones like that sort of period now do you know what actually in the last episode

we had a long discussion about how I don't understand art not moved by it but I tell you what I've often gigged in Amsterdam and when I do that I do go around the Rice Museum and obviously it's not

the Rice Museum that I would like to go not the third Rice Museum I love that This is the Rice as in R-I-JK's museum. But the stuff in there is brilliant. All the still life. It's amazing.

It's amazing stuff. I like the restraint of some of the kind of the cold Dutch Protestant painters. Yes. Like Rembrandt. Rembrandt's one of my favourite painters. He's not Renaissance. I don't even know why we're talking about him, but I still will. Rembrandt's on my favourite painters, even though all he seems to paint is a boring bloke wearing a black hat sitting by a natural lit window.

But it's somehow incredibly thrilling. Rembrandt? What era was that? Rembrandt's Dutch golden age. That's like 1650s. That's slightly post-rennaissance. Because I suppose what we should do in the, you know, we began this series with the start of the Renaissance and the high Renaissance of Italy, which is 16th century, early 60th century. But the Northern Renaissance, which is Germany, Belgium, Holland, and then maybe England. It's disputed. Because we basically don't really have that greater history of visual arts. Like the English Renaissance culture. It's a waste of time. Yeah, the English Renaissance is probably like Shakespeare, Marlowe, those sort of things. Because a lot of the paintings were... We'd like our boredom to be acted out in front of us. We don't want to...

Where we can see it. Whatever happens, though, we're standing up. But there's arguably a reason why... I tell you, that's part of my problem with museums is that if I could get in a wheelchair and go around... What's Stephen? It had a nice time. If they had like a railway track and you could just sit in like a car... Like a sushi train.

If you were on a sushi train in a museum and it was like up the stairs down and it was at a pace that you could sort of see the painting and engage with it and then you maybe had a little buttons. I think you've accidentally stumbled on to an unbelievable idea. I think if you mix theme parks with art galleries, that's a straight male theme park. You'd probably want to stay as long as you'd like. Because the problem with art galleries is you don't know how long you want to stay at the paper. Some paintings you're like go. But you should be able to have a lever and so you stop and you can stay as long as you like. but then when you hold it you can go like

really fast like stealth yeah yeah it's like looking at a Rembrandt it should be like it should be like um wow that's quite like

it should be like dating apps where you're like no yeah that's what that's what art gallery is horribly ugly horribly ugly horribly ugly smelly smelly bottom I go to a I love art galleries to be honest

but I have things that I like and things I don't like and I've now got that pretty refined so whenever there's cutlery Cutlery? Yeah, like bowls and plates and jewelry and stuff. Right, so in the exhibition. Exhibitions.

Anything like that, I'm out. Jewelry, I couldn't give a fun of it. Really? Still life could go fuck itself. If you're painting fruit, you can fuck off. I quite like how Protestant it is that, look at this beautiful apple. How dare we even think about it?

It pours the fuck out of me. The Italians are painting naked women coming out of the sea. And the Dutch are like, look at this beautiful apple. I couldn't possibly. the thought of this apple. I think that's quite funny. Not for me. I want to see like confused

45-year-old men with a receding hairline sort of just looking out of window like, that's what I want. That's what I'm after. Rembrandt is definitely one of the best. But my favourite actual type of painting, there must be named for it,

but Northern Renaissance landscape painting, whatever it is. Peter Brugale, the younger and Hieronymus Bosch are some of the maddest paintings I've ever seen. Horonis Bosch especially takes the absolute piss. he did the Garden of Earthly Delights

Get the Garden of Earthly Delights up This is early neurodivergence I guess What'd you say? This is ADHD autism And I've seen this in real life So it's on three like banners How big is it in 80?

It's kind of like It's quite big Two by four meters Those are two doors that fold in Okay so if you don't like it You can just shut the paint Yeah exactly yeah I'd do that probably

Nope don't like that Fold it away So this is about basically sin one half on the left you'll see is heaven it looks like sort of camp best of all

yeah but what it must be if your mate painted that right what's going on mate

you're right do you want to talk about yeah there's a bit of yeah I mean it's just like hey lad I've done a paint everyone's everyone's painting fucking religious

are everyone's like painting just the normal stuff they're painting Jesus on the cross yeah I've done one are you all right mate it's like when you're

if your mate start posting Peaky Blinders status is on Facebook saying, like, I am the lion, you know. I tell you, it's people who try and battle their mental health publicly by doing poetry on Facebook. Yeah. You go, ah, I think this could be done privately. You're okay, mate.

I think this painting could be done kept indoors. Can you, for the listeners, can you explain what on earth's going on? On the right panel, what's an earth going on? So there's three panels. One, is that thing in the middle of giant ass. Is it a giant ass in the middle of that thing? Yeah. And then the second panel is meant to be Earth and all of our seers.

and all of our hedonism. There's an orgy at the front. So it's basically saying, Earth, we're all just fucking each other, eating. Pooh coming out of that pig. Gambling, look like shagging. Charlie's found a poo coming out of it.

I think it's a deer, not a pig. This is saying basically that it's how much sin and hedonism is in our life. And it's just the three panels of the Christian understanding of the three realms, right? It's heaven, earth and hell. Oh, my days. What's that?

That's hell. Right. So that's a guy who's also a tree bent over and his asses. is open and there's some people living in his ass. Do you know what I mean? I feel like the Northern Renaissance we're getting cooking now. This is what we're talking about.

And then there's a knife. It's just like a Pink Floyd cover. Yeah, but this is in the 1500s. Yeah, that is mad actually. To have this level of technical skill while also being this truly mad. Because there's people who have these ideas but none of them have the

the paintsmanship to be able to render the reality so vividly. Like a homeless guy you know under a bridge with a can of special brew he probably has some he probably would have if he could do that he probably would have done it

I see what you mean yeah so the Italian Renaissance is more about look how beautiful we can recreate the past yeah and this is more like quite strapping lad fucking hell I've had a mushroom

I mean it makes sense that it's so LSD like this is a staglio to Amsterdam isn't it well Pia Novelli has this great joke where he says the British weekend is like a Hieronymus Bosch directed by Ken Loach

Yeah That is a good joke Fuck me Wasted on the pigs That I imagine Listen to Yeah God That guy's got a recorder

Going up his bum Recorder up the ass I mean my daughter does that That's not hellish That's just the three year old Oh that's a nun That's a pig dressed as a nun Whispering Sweet Nothings

Into a pale man Yeah and this is In real life This pit is tiny So the level of detail He's managed to get There's cards So gambling

That's naughty Right yeah If I could have any Painting in the world For free in my house i'd have the garden of earthly delights in my toilet yeah so that while i'm taking a shit i can just sort of you'd see something it's like where's wally and there's no and i think it's quite it's there's no people in heaven i think that's quite indignant there's jesus

scroll down there's jesus and maybe adam and eve so it's uh it's right so it's two girls one bloke it's uh two girls one cup yeah that's heaven dutch heaven is two girls one cup isn't it that's their idea if you don't sin in your life then you'll get to go to two girls one cup what's interesting is there's a black pool at the bottom of heaven with some quite nasty creatures coming out that's the that will be the like river sticks kind of yeah right that's how you get to the underworld maybe yeah what's going on with it what's going on heronymous do you know what i mean yeah just sit him down it's almost like a um like how they even know what giraffes that must be like i don't think he's ever seen a giraffe he must have only had

it described to him because he wouldn't have seen it i mean what's that thing in the middle there's a unicorn there's elephants like a shrimp's head fountain so it's funny because Because when you talk about the Renaissance, you don't think about this stuff at all. Yeah. This is absolutely wild. Yeah. So it's almost like...

It's kind of unmatched by anything since, really. Is it that the church's power has sort of weakened and people are now feel comfortable painting their maddest fucking ideas? Yeah. But it's also like a new class has come through as well. Yeah. This is new money, right? It's Rona Week.

Now until Wednesday. And the best part? we're ready to help you extend your summer. You know the saying the grass is always greener on the other side? Well, this summer, make sure it's your side of the lawn. Head to Rona today for 5.2 kilograms of Scott's Turf Builder Fall Lawn Fertilizer at only 1499. Build it right, build it Rona. Conditions apply, details in store and more offers at rona.ca.

So when's Geronimois Bosch painting? He's mid-1500s, and so duck the, The low countries have got very, very rich. Okay. From Amsterdam's on the rise. Yeah. But Bruges is a huge centre of art. Have you been to Bruges?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Belgian beers are great. Yep. You know, sneaky 8% you're absolutely trolleed after two halves. Brilliant. Oh, that's delicious. That's like Ribena. No, I love Bruges and it's very close as well.

Very close. So, sorry, we haven't, we've galloped ahead here. Yeah. For the listeners, this is the 1500s. Yeah. Right. That we're talking about the Northern Renaissance begins after. the Italian one.

The wealth of the Silk Road travels up north, the ideas travel up north, but it has a distinctly different quality to the Italian stuff. So the southern Renaissance, the main kind of feature of that is the revival of the classical, the humanism of antiquity, the Northern Renaissance is more about religion, detail, and reform. The artistic medium of the Southern Renaissance is frescoes and sculptures, lots of stone, buildings. Northern Renaissance, oil painting.

on wood panels, themes in the Southern Renaissance, mythology, the human body, lots of nudes, Northern Renaissance, domestic life, religious scenes. There is a kind of there's a sort of pattern emerging here. Southern Renaissance, idealism, proportion, balance,

you know, the golden ratio, beauty, Northern Renaissance, hyperrealism, intricate detail. Look how real this fruit looks. That's what Dutch painters are saying. I can draw banana, and I bet you can't tell the difference. Or it goes so off the edge they become Huron's botch

and they're just like I think Tuesday's upside down hello, goodbye but the Northern Renaissance is more moralistic it's basically sort of it's autism versus ADHD

it seems now I actually like this Charlie's got a painting rubbish no look at this rubbish no because the thing is right the reason I like this

is that I can tell whether it's good or not right because and for the listeners Charlie's got a painting up of some apples and the reason I can I like this is that when I see this, I go,

that's a very good drawing of some apples. But to me, they look like apples. Yeah, I understand that. But when it's just before they invented the camera, so they're like, let's just try and see how good a photo he can make. Exactly. We have cameras now.

Yeah, but they didn't then. So this is brilliant attempt at photography. Yeah. I can judge the skill of the artist. Right. Jan Van Eyck. When it's Tracy Eminem doing a pool on the floor and winning the Turner Prize, I'm like, well, I could.

What's good, what's bad? What's good? Is it a particularly artistic poo? So this is at the National Gallery. This is the Alphorne portraits that's paid for by some rich merchant patron, I think, called the Alphornees. This is the most famous painter of the Northern Renaissance, Jan Van Eyck. He's kind of the master of oil painting, which has kind of been around, but he makes it what it is, right? And this is why it looks quite distinctively different to the Italian ones, because they're using egg tampera.

Egg tempura. They're like using scrambled egg. Right. Yeah, to make their stuff. They're using egg yolks and fucking chalk or whatever. But then the oil painting was kind of refined and bruges in the Northern Renaissance. But it's not oil. I mean, what oil is it?

I don't know what oil. Yeah, what is it? Charlie, what oil is oil painting? So the Italians are using a kind of egg-based, like, pasta. When do the Italian, does Renaissance include pizza? When does that pizza come into Italy? Lynn seed oil. Seed oil.

Seed oils. We've got to stop at all this seed oil painting. Pizza emerges in the 18th, early 19th century. So this is the thing. Very late. Interesting. It's interesting that the Italians always claim pizza and how to do pizza properly and stuff.

But I think New York has as much of a claim to pizza as the Italians because they're both made around the same time. Admittedly by Italians in New York. But Neapolitan pizza is one of the biggest cons. I agree. It sucks. In the middle, it all gets wet. It becomes this clump.

You lift up a piece. It's got a wet bottom. It just all slides off. and then it's kind of on like sourdough bread but it's like why am I no Americans they get a syringe filled with chemicals

that are going to kill you they inject it and they basically give the pizza Viagra so that it's rigid horny pizza you know there's a guy that reviews pizza in New York

and he's a thing called tip sag right that's how he judges a slice is he gets a pizza up and he holds it like that a slice and if there's minimal tip sag it's good yeah and also people

who make their whole person not liking panop on pizza, it's like pizza is not this kind of refined, like this thing that you need to hold like a standard to. It's a fucking slab of cheese and tomato on bread. I mean, as a teenager, I suppose I was the inverse of what you were just saying that my personality was that I liked Hawaiian pizza. I wore Hawaiian shirts. I wore Billabong shorts. I was fat. Well, you did an elastic waistband. I idolized Elvis and I ate Hawaiian pizza. and that was my that was me that's like autism on the first page of autism that's like i'm not going to look at anything else yeah yeah that's such lazy autism it's middle it's middle

age man uh autism um what where Hawaiian shirt does all the heavy lifting basically yeah you're trying to find fit fit fit fit fit again you won't find fat photos of me on the it's been white yeah i mean that was that but that was last year was last year look we just had the second kids. I'm sat on a, I'm sat on a you didn't have the second kid. Your wife did. You're not pregnant. No, but there is such a thing, there is such a thing as a sympathy

belly. You're not heard about that? Yeah, in that apparently men, when they become fathers, they release hormones that it makes it harder to lose weight. It's called a sympathy belly. Yeah. Well, the dad bod is

a... Yeah, exactly. And the dad bod is actually, it kind of makes me look like a renaissance nude. Yeah, you got like a... Milky, overflowing, sort of... Juicy. Bursting at the seams.

Bursting at the seams. Bursting, gorgeous. Um... Charlie, this is... Fat fuck. Charlie. Charlie. This is devastating.

Right. Typing in Finn Taylor fat fuck into Google infrastructure on my own podcast. If you did that, do that in any other workplace, you'd be similarly fired. Can you imagine?

Your boss, fat fuck. Your bass just typing in fat fuck into Google. Honestly, my parents are coming to stay this weekend. I will get them to send me an image of me when I was overflowing bubbly Renaissance nude of a team. But my personality was Hawaiian pizza at that, so. Yeah, it makes sense.

Right, so let's go to Peter Brugel. So explain for the listeners what's going on. Actually, this is at the Rikes Museum. So this is my favorite kind of painting is this sort, which is basically like medieval panoramas. So it shows an image of what's going on in a town. So medieval... Your idea of...

A medieval dad would have done. done this like would have held the phone and I'm trying to keep it straight yeah yeah and so this is just in some village it's a bit more real than they're on as boss stuff but it's fucking chaos and what I've sent it in on is right in the middle of this yeah is comedians right so this is stand up in the middle ages or like a little traveling play yeah right so everyone in the fair they're watching it so and what it said is that what's going on in this scene is um in this play Basically, a guy who was worried that his wife's cheating on him. Yes.

Hired a merchant to carry him in his rucksack into the guy's house. Right. So it's a cuck and a rucksack. It's a cuck in a rucksack. Which is, to be fair, as you said, most comedy doesn't age well. It's not funny. But this is really...

This is fucking hilarious. That's fucking hilarious. Look, he's in a cuck and a rucksack. Cuck in a cuck sack. That guy's wearing a cuck in a cuck. So he's got a cuck in a bag. and the cuck's pointing his head out looking at his wife kissing someone else

Is that what's happening? I mean that's tiny in the middle of this huge panorama And people are lapping it up They're absolutely loving it But you reckon for our live show If I came out with you in a bag Just poking your head up like that And then someone was just getting off

With your girlfriend Yeah What they're sneaking around the back Yeah but it's just Cuck sack Drecking he's tugging it in there Drecking the cuck in the bag 's having a little go

maybe that's maybe this is like because obviously they didn't have wardrobes back then yeah if you're a cut if you're a cuck in medieval time you're to hide in a bag to watch your wife get it get on with someone and your jacket in a little bag yeah but then his head just popping out that's I got a big laugh now that's hilarious that's if you didn't know he was in there and then he posted are you fucking my wife that's brilliant I think it was after this that they started have I got news for year actually no it haven't got news started it'd been around for like 20 years oh sorry they thought we've got to get this guy on cuck sack that's brilliant that's brilliant

So what's this? This painting's by who? It's either by Peter Brugel the younger or someone in his school of painting. Yeah. Because a lot of them are not attributed to it because they're all kind of the same but they're done by his assistants or whatever.

So he did the Hunterman in the Snow, which is a very famous one. So all of these are sort of panoramas. Unlike Honourous Bosch where it's just like a guy who should be in a mental asylum. Yeah. He does the same style

but it gives a pretty good image of like shit medieval life. Yes. Which you know I absolutely love. yes um if you zoom in on that just any of them there's always just and i suppose what i find funniest about um look at that it's incredible what i find funny about um art history lesbian history whatever you want to call it is that people take these paintings and they try and extrapolate sociopolitical theories from right from the style yeah so they'll be like this you know like the hannah

gadspie show they'll be like this this isn't a net this isn't a net right so they'll look at a medieval panorama and the thing that we get from this is that women should be paid more and you're like how the fuck have you got that well from the net you can probably you're not going how the fuck have you got that when she's like women should get paid more you know it's not a huge jump from the net the thing i took from the net was uh you don't find this fun enough to do standoff about it that's what that's what i took from it i was like you've been through something horrible um i wouldn't write a joke about it right and she didn't And she didn't.

So I don't know what you're telling her to do. She didn't at all. I'm telling myself not to watch it again. That's what I'm telling myself. I just thought it was very brave for her to post a special when she bombed the whole last half. Yes. I would have been like, go again. I'd say, you record this over two or three nights, right?

Yeah, we've ordered tough gigs, but like, I'm surely you can get another one. Just go again. Take two, I reckon. You just take two. She really lost the room in the second half, I thought. Yeah. Then they stood up in applause, which is again, which is a, it's a lesbian history. Right.

It's kind of, they can, they read into things to lesbians that I, the straight man is obviously simple creatures. Td Bank knows that running a small business is a journey, from startup to growing and managing your business. That's why they have a dedicated small business advice hub on their website to provide tips and insights on business banking to entrepreneurs. No matter the stage of business you're in, visit td.com slash small business advice to find out more or to match with a TD small business business. Banking Account Manager I was having actually, my wife recently was saying that my radar for sex

is bad. Right. As in when... Gender? No. As in like when she might be up for it. Right.

And I think that's because it's not a radar. Okay. What is that? That's too sophisticated a system. It's an oral history. No, it's like the Israeli defense system.

If anything comes into the orbit, I'm shooting it down. It's the iron dome. Right. My sex driver is the Iron Dome. Well, because you can't risk missing the opportunity. Exactly. Right.

If something that looks like a wife comes into my airspace, I'm shooting it down. Get that down. Now, ask questions later. Bang. Okay, that was the neighbour. I'm sorry about that. That's what it is. The radar implies that you're like judging distance.

You're judging shape. You're judging like that's at a speed of 20 knots. That's too slow for the Israelis. Bang, done. Yeah, and you need a tough deterrence being not having sex with you. Exactly. you need to deter your wife from the idea of not having sex it's exactly true

so yeah my sex drive is like the Israeli defence system it's the iron bone if you will I don't know what's happening next door yeah sounds like one of those Horonis Bosch painting next door there's an heronish Bosch painting happening at me next door anyway I mean we should talk about the reformation a bit should be that came into it

the Northern Renaissance much like the Protestant Reformation it was about taking it away from this holier than now divine kind of untouchable if you look at the Italians it's either harking back to the Greeks and the Romans like a school of Athens like that painting we looked at yeah like a world that no one can relate to a statue of David it's myths it's Venus yeah whereas with the Reformation when they're starting to break down those power structures and that's why Peter Brugel the elder with those big medieval panorrah Armours of peasant life. Yeah. It's depicted in reality. It's realism. He's Michael McIntyre. Yes.

Yes. It's like, you know, or like Peter Kay. You know, you know, your dad when he's reversing. Yeah, he's drawing the man draw. They always do that thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What's it?

They've got this superpower where they could just, they just, they hold the seat there and they look back, didn't they? And they're doing that, aren't they? They're doing that. What? They're not, you don't, you know how to power steering, lad. Yeah, they're doing that. Peter Brugale, the elder.

Had a wedding. I'm doing that. They're loving it Lumams, they're loving it Yeah Or you're loving a bit too much love there Whereas the Southern Renaissance Is fucking clown school

Yeah yeah it's Golié It's Golié It's they're winning the awards But they can't make a living Yeah So they're all like that Apart from Heronis Bosch Who fuck knows what he was on

No he's yeah I don't know much about him As a person Like surely Yeah get his life up Surely he ended up dead In a fucking gutter Like that's the madest

Paintings I've ever seen It's good name Hieronymus I reckon it must have been in the hat When you were being named Hieronymus Gora school. He'd roll on my school.

Anyway, let's stop having fun please, Charlie. Stop having fun. Think of the listeners. They want to know about Flemish primitivism. Yep.

Scrope in the barrel here. I reckon Flemish is maybe the least spoken language for non-native speakers. Right. As in what language are you learning as well as English? Flemish.

Yeah. Never been said. But Flemish and Dutch is basically old English, right? They're actually the same kind of thing. So they're actually quite easy to learn. Flemish is a mix of French and German. Oh, right.

Well, I mean, yeah. I mean, Belgium and Netherlands, it's like, as a country, it's a complete fucking mess. Oh, the whole place. Because Belgium's got like, what, like 15 million people. And then it's got six. I don't think it's got that many people. And then it's got like six distinctively different cultures. In Belgium, you're either a chocolatier or a paedophile.

I'm pretty sure that's. Oh, you're either, you're less than 10 meters away from both at most times. So if you're wondering where these fucking mental paintings come from. Yeah. To this is, because it's not an art podcast. No, it's not. This is a history podcast. It's a fart podcast.

Thanks, Charlie. Oh, we really should have done some fart history. History of fart. Don't tempt Charlie. Charlie, what I want to know, Charlie, is when was the first fart ever laid down on tape? That's what I want to know. Anyway, right. So what happens is you've got Bruges, Ghent and Antwerp.

Yep. All quite farty cities. Right. Right, yeah. They become major centres. Well, they're eating chips and beer. That's the Belgian diet. farting people.

Yeah. There's not good food around that. No, no, no. Stodge. Yeah. Mayanase, chips. It's toddler with beer that's the strength of wine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the Belgian diet. Yeah. My kids have a great time in Belgium. What's for lunch? Chips and mayonnaise. It's brilliant. They get wealthy from cloth production.

They get a lot of wool from England. That's kind of the big. And they're making wool. And then they're making wool. And then people, they start buying silk. Right. And wearing silk.

Right. So I guess this is actually Renaissance's sort of lingerie starts to come into it. Right. What would you say? Victoria's secret. underwear dressing women up as cakes and shit yeah but yeah but it's now fine garbants are more readily available for a new class of people so so before then they're just kind of wearing like potato sacks yeah so this is kind of the end the beginning

of the end of the potato sack era which is great yeah so finally we're emerging from potato we've gone from straight to go yeah straight potato sacks and now it's these fine you know wool silk silks joblets jerkins uh and then publishers they start but what oh i tell you what we haven't actually dealt with. We haven't dealt with literature because part of the Northern Renaissance is literature. There's a guy called Montaigne,

French cunt, who I did in uni. One of the most boring books I've ever read. And I've read some fucking boring books. I would rather read a children's book without children there than read this book there. I had to do this for a module in uni. This is like early humanist literature. It's basically a French guy

who's got depression writing a book about oh my god to press French French guys one of the worst a thousand pages it is do you read all of it

yeah I had to read all of it and make notes about how fucking sad a thousand pages I'll summarize it for you now I'm French I'm sad what's he sad of

he's sad because he's French and everything smells I don't know I'd like to go to work oh wait I'm in France everyone's striking I've got

I've got quite sensitive why is he important historically what's his special moves so he's one of the first this is one of the precursors to the novel right so the literature doesn't really exist a long winch it's basically a long long old winch it's a one side of conversation with a therapist that's not there right so he's a this is 16th century I think he invents introspection he invents it yeah well so no one would have been looking inward before what an absolute disaster that's been so he goes I am I am myself the matter of my

book. Yeah, he's like Oppenheimer creating the nuclear bomb. Yeah, exactly. He's like, you fucked it, lad. He critiques the blind adherence to social norms. Right.

He's invents cultural relativism. Right. It's so fucking boring this book. He just wangs on and wangs on and wangs on. It's the birth of people basically becoming tortured artists. Right. All the worst people we went to uni with

were around in this time. Right, right, right. So to end this devastatingly serious series this has been one for the lesbians if you're still with us maybe play this sort of for your first dance

which I imagine is just more of a stomp put your big boots on stomp on the floor everyone's frowning at a lesbian wedding first up I don't like this don't like this at all this is this is a great series to accompany yourself

up a fucking mountain hiking they love the heights the lesbians don't they they love taking the upper ground in more ways than one to compare the two the southern renaissance naked hot

beauty an impossible ideal like makes you feel small cowardly I'll never have a penis that small I'll never have a penis that small how can I live to shrink my penis to the size

the northern renaissance is look at look how good an apple that is that seems to be hey do you remember your dad do you know when you're growing up and dad's on holidays They get to the airport. What is it?

Like four in the morning. Dad, the flat's not until 1pm. We take three hours to park the car and then if you're lucky, you've got to get your back to the passport. That's what they like. That's the Northern Renaissance. So, Northern Renaissance is Peter Kaye in the 90s,

the Southern Renaissance. I guess it is. Yeah, it basically is, isn't it? That's what the Northern Renaissance is. Toddlers at a wedding, running afoot the stage, playing the Dix phone into the mic. That's the Northern Renaissance.

And then I don't know what the celebration is. Frank Skinner. It's all dirty. Yeah. Lude. Lood. Skinner before he went clean. Horny.

Horny. If you'd like another episode on, please God, not this. I actually have a good suggestion on what to do our Patreon on for this week. Go on. The performance artist, Tuching Heiser,

who is the maddest cunt in the fucking world. It's brilliant. You'll love it. I promise. When you said performance artist, I was really to slat down a hard veto. Right. I was ready to use my legal.

All right, well, just to give you a little tease of what we'll talk about on the Patreon. To Ching Heises, Taiwanese performance artist, his first piece was called jump, right?

This is when he was like hack and shit. Right. He just jumped off a three-story building. And do you know what? In retrospect, he said it's not my best work. I tell you how that could have been better if it was a 10th story building.

He broke his ankle and it never healed. That is quite funny. Yeah. And then what he's most famous for is he did a piece called the time clock piece, which we will talk about in detail where he took a photo every hour for a year.

I feel like you've been hijacked. I feel like you've just said that the page in this week is going to be a time when he's performance artist. He took a photo of himself

every single hour for a year. Right. So you could only have maximum 50 minutes sleep. He only missed 23 photos over a year. Well then it's not

a complete project, is it? It's pointless. What a waste of time? He overslept 23 times. What a fucking idiot? He sets an alarm every 50 years.

He's like, because once you've missed one, you go, I've got to start again. Yeah. Anyway, we'll discuss it. It's great stuff. For £3 a month, you can become a truther.

Do you want more lesbian history? Then join the Patreon. Other than that, that brings us to the end. Zulu's a good film. That's my main takeaway. Yeah. And Peter K's a great artist. My main takeaway is, from this series,

I was right to watch Zulu instead of researching this. Anyway, we'll see you next week. We'll see you next week for something. A bit juicier, I reckon. We'll get a genocide in there. We'll get a genocide next week. We've eaten our greens. Next week is back to burgers.

Back to burgers. Back to burgers. Night night. Bye-bye.