Fin vs History - Men: Talk To Your Mates (and then Behead them) | Feudal Japan (Part 1)

Episode Date: October 6, 2025

Secure your privacy with Surfshark! Enter coupon code FVH for an extra 4 months at ⁠⁠surfshark.com/fvh Part 1: Accent fans, rejoice: we’re in feudal Japan, which it turns out was Upside Down land. The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened.  For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon ⁠patreon.com/fintaylor 00:00 Accent Fans Rejoice 06:50 Emperor Teapot 13:47 Mongol Invasions 16:05 Synchronised Seppuku 17:38 Incel Heroes 23:34 Real Mates Chop Their Mate's Head Off 26:52 Wakashudō 34:35 One Long Star Mode 41:07 Goldicocks and the Three Bears 47:24 Nobunaga’s in Charge Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I think the big problem with Samurai today is mental health. Definitely. None of us talk anywhere near enough. I completely agree. We need to open up more. For sure. The mental health toll amongst samurai, well, it's a hidden illness, really. Do you know what?

I think actually the problem is masculinity. I'm sorry. I cut you off. No, no, no, you're a guest. I come on your podcast and I cut you off. I'm going to have to, I interrupt it. I can't live with this dishonor. I can't live with this dishonor.

I must kill myself. No, you're going, I'm going to kill myself. It's my God. I'm going to, I can't live with this just on. I can't live with this just on. I can't live with this just on. Welcome back to Finn v. History. I'm joined by Horatio Gould.

And today, he's gone for it. Today, accent fans rejoice. We're talking about feudal Japan. This is a one for the accent lovers out there. Fellow ethnographers, join me. Gather round. It's going to be a fun one. We've been walking our way through post-war Britain

with the least opportunity for accents. And we're coming back with a big four-part. Bang. With a big four-parter on Feudal Japan. That noise I made there actually was anime. You don't really watch anime because you've got a mortgage and kids, right? Yes, yeah. But one of my favorite things about anime is that is how loudly the basic emotions are.

Yeah, it is. Thinking. You know. Well, that's the equivalent of British people just saying sorry for everything. I want to build that into normal life. though. If you ever think about something, you go,

huh? Just every time I ask you a question, uh, um, yes, but thank you for sticking with us through the post-war British Prime Minister's series.

Near the end, people were commenting that it's arguably getting a bit stale. Board of this now. And you know what? It was a experiment to sort of cleave off our fan base,

right? Some people were saying when we got to the end, I can't believe you're stopping now. You've just got to the good bit. Well, fear not. We have gone as far away as possible from Heath, Wilson, etc. Exactly.

We're in feudal Japan. Right. Now, feudal Japan is sort of the 12th century to the 19th century, 700 years. Right. And I must say that long-time listeners of this podcast will know that I firm believer that the Nossil History has created equal. Right. And the medieval period is the preserve of autists and paedophiles. But I have to say.

that I absolutely love this. The preserves of paedophiles. Yes, it's like marmalade for nonsense. They're spreading this shit on their toast, disgusting medieval nonsense. But I must say that I absolutely loved this and I think I found a period of medieval history that I as a straight man with a mortgage can enjoy guilt-free.

Now, yeah, I loved it too. I'll tell you why. What is it? The sheer amount of suicide. It is amazing. It's phenomenal. It's quite a racist trope. You know, just constantly.

I don't think it is, actually. After doing research, they fucking loved it. They cannot get enough of killing themselves. They can't stop. It's not like a, it's not just a trope or a stereotype. They fucking. It's the leading cause of death for 700 years. They can't wait to kill themselves.

And it's, it's, it's, sticking their head around the door is, have I just ordered myself? No, you haven't. It's the, it's the equivalent of you're in a pub, you spill someone else's drink. And instead of offering to buy them a new one, you go, shall I kill myself? I'll kill myself Please please allow me And it's It is insane

I enjoy spending time And they're jealous When they hear someone else Just killed themselves They're like fucking He managed to get caught With such a fucking bang He cut his own guts out

God I fucking wish I was him He died doing what he loved So this is when Japan Obviously Japan gets Compared to Britain quite a lot We're both Ireland nations Of similar size Yes

And we both got similar Kind of weird Social customs That I guess grow from being up an island nation, right? Well, maybe. Because they push Englishness to a level,

you know, the Titanic is the ultimate British suicide. This makes... This makes me question whether I am in fact Presbyterian and whether my mum's actually Japanese. Yeah, it makes us feel like Italians. Exactly. I'm like, we're such... Can we keep our emotions in check for one minute?

Us Brits? These guys are literally fartsing at the dinner table and then killing themselves. It's crazy. The amount of Sapuku. Sapuku is a ritualized suicide that, as we've said, is sort of, it's the, it's the air they breathe.

Yeah. It's killing themselves. And that's why I enjoyed spending time in this research because, you know, I mean, you have routines about it. I have routines about it. The current fetishization of trauma porn and the Stephen Bartlett kind of, a depression industrial complex could not be further away from the attitudes to Imperial Japan. Are you saying a samurai going on, diary of a samurai?

Yeah. It's not happening. Because they don't really, you don't really get very far. No, you don't. At the first five minutes, their guts all over the table. No, it's just Steve Martin interviewing a corpse. Yeah. So you struggle with depressed.

Okay, well, you solve that. Yeah. They love tea and suicide, the Japanese. They do. Both two ceremonies, you know. So Feudal Japan really kicks off with the Genipe War. Right. There's going to be a lot of words.

And there's a lot of names that it's going to be hard to pronounce. I don't want any fedoras in the comments going hum actually. Well, you pick the wrong. because I must say that this is feudal Japan. This is Fodora, you know, law. This is, have you, if you watched Love on the Spectrum? It's history for school shooters. It's, you know, the people who like,

this is history for people who own 3D printers. Yeah, villain origin story of every school shooting is this. Have you seen Love on the Spectrum? I have. You know, James is my favourite. James is the absolute goat, the guy with the kind of quite curly hair. He's my absolute, my favourite of that whole series is when he meets there. It's what fucking legend this guy is.

I'd definitely have on the pod. When he meets his friends, you know, he's got... And then he goes to a sushi restaurant and he's the least autistic one. It's absolutely amazing. There's a guy in a full leather matrix, like tinder glasses and fedora. And, you know, this is that period. This is history for people who collect nunchucks and know how to use them. And it starts at the Ginepe War in the end of the 12th century, which is a pivotal turning point.

as this is where centralised Japan starts to break down and... So it's been centralised? Yeah, they've got an emperor. They love an emperor, but the emperor has been a kind of puppet. The emperor is like a teapot, right?

Yeah. It's like a ritual piece of China. Yeah. Well, no, it's a piece of Japan. The excitement in your eyes. Yeah, I know. Flash before me. Just diving head of the back.

Stick is going in! Drag-bauer! You couldn't believe your lot. I couldn't believe. It's just set up perfectly. A beck and ball from the halfway line. How has he found this? It's Ban Percy against Spain.

No, it's an imperial piece of Japan. That's brilliant about of stuff back. You've got to put it in those away or you're not worth your soul. You're getting subbed off if you're not putting that in the Gulf. Anyway, coming all the fuck we were talking about. Well, the emperor is a ritualistic thing almost. Yes. Or is it at this point?

Because it keeps changing, right? So they have an emperor and then it. it collapses and then they bring it back right they're always bringing the emperor back but the emperor is a sort of it's like constitutional monarchy in the way that we have a sort of but even crazy because throughout this period the emperor loses all his money becomes completely irrelevant and base has to beg uh daimio's for money yeah and a daimio is like a lord the feudal system they're a lord and it is quite a lot like medieval england set up it's feudal lords fighting with

you know over it's the war of the roses but it's on speed yeah so this yeah the Ginepe war ends the sort of marks the transition to the regime military regimes local regime dominated by the sunrise the war of the rice is not the war of the roses which is what I have

after Christmas dinner desperate struggle for the best chalkies yeah your kids are trying to fight them off you and then I accidentally an orange one have to kill myself. So a decisive moment in samurai culture.

Now, samurai are knights, basically. But obviously, all our fans will have samurai swords. They'll have katanas. They'll have spent their nouns inheritance on actual swords. Samarise become knight. At this point, samurai means to serve. And it's kind of more of like,

it's more of like a servant of a lord. Yeah. It becomes. They're sort of contract, private protection, I guess. Because obviously, the Western view of the samurai is sick as hell. Yeah, right? Our view of the samurai is just like this fucking,

this very exoticised view. What's, what you got up? This is the heaviest Japanese person ever. Wow. I'm surprised. I would go, I'd think they'd be heaviest thing as the... Is he a sumo wrestler?

Yeah. He is. He's the heaviest sumo wrestler. Yeah. It's called Yamamoto Yamaha. What I like about sumo is that they've given the fat people in the world like an honourable way to live, you know. Yeah.

In America, you got my 500 pound life. Yeah. And there's a documentary following you try to get down the stairs. Yeah. Right? But with these guys, you're like sports stars. And it just feels nice that you have like an option. Yeah, it's like that's David Beckhammedaer in Japan.

Yamamataa Maita Ryota. And like, why aren't we doing that for like Lizzo? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Well. Why aren't we getting Lizzo to fight Rick Waller? Yeah. Or whatever.

I guess that makes sense. McMannis. McManus versus Lizzo. Why are we not getting Lizzo to sumo wrestle is a good question? I think it's a perfectly legitimate question. I think, I think, get that flute out of her mouth and get a nappy on it. Yeah, I don't get enough respect. I'm only like an international pop star.

I wish I was doing something more respectful, like, sumo wrestling. That's my point. Sumo wrestling is the height of Japanese culture, you know. So are sumo wrestlers, are they born, are they born fat? Or are they, is it training? I think they're bread. Like cows. Yeah, yeah.

Like wago beef. Right. You know how it's like massage to be like. marbled So as in Assume a wrestler is training are they just

sort of piling on beef and milk and stuff they're just downing up I mean I think it would be probably terrifying to see what a sumo

wrestler eats 20,000 calories in the day they eat 10 times what a normal male eats It's a young Finn Taylor and it's done

two massive meals wow yeah at my peak at my peak I was in a it wasn't a sumo camp in my head

This episode of Finn versus history is brought to you by Surfshark. Our friends at Surfshark. They are our friends. Now, if you're travelling... Are you being on your holidays anywhere, nice? Say you're going to Turkey to get your horrible hair and teeth up. Exactly. And you want to WhatsApp your thick girlfriend.

Yeah. If I'm there with a massive bandage on my head... Yeah. And I want to be picked up by my thick, stupid girlfriend. And I'm like trying to use WhatsApp. You try to open WhatsApp in Turkey or your phone explode. Well, there's no... nothing I can do.

That's where you're wrong. Really? Because Surf Shark, if you use a VPN, you can use whatever apps you use in this country in Turkey, no matter what the Turks do. Yeah. Yeah? Right. Boss man's trying to stop you WhatsApp in.

You can waddle around him. I don't think so. You drop the shoulder. Drop the shoulder, boss man flies out of the way. So that your thick girlfriend can pick you up and get you in a car and drive you home. Yeah. I don't know why she's driven to Turkey, but she's thick. she doesn't realize planes exist

speaking of planes you can save money on flights and car rentals by hiding your location that's a good trick isn't it so yeah if you want to crash a plane into a building

for example for example and we're worried about well I'm going to die anyway but that is an ridiculous that's extortionate that is extortionate I'm being ripped off here

but then again why are you plotting to do this on a bank holiday of course they're going to jack your prices that's the free market but if you're a domestic terrorist. You could still do it on a bank holiday with the VPN with the savings you'd make.

Exactly. Exactly. Because bank holidays aren't global. If you say that you're from Uzbekistan, they don't have... Which often do. They don't have banks, I don't think. Or holidays. Bankistan. It's not called Uzbekistan.

They're all called Bex. They're all called Bex. Is the Beck open? Secure your digital life with Surf Shark VPN. It is a risk-free. Thursday money back guarantee. I repeat. The money back guarantee is risk-free. What you do on your laptop

is not risk, that's on you. This is not a miracle, you know, magic money tree type thing. Go to surfshark.com slash FVH or click the link below and use the code FVH

Foxtrot Vagina Hotel for four extra months of Surfshark. Don't let online threats catch you off guard. Put a condom over your laptop. Keep your data safe. We'll see you next time.

Very good, my friend. Very good. Very good. Very good VPN. Anyway. So this, yeah, Samurai are knights or they become knights but one of the founding

one of the important things in the samurai legend is that the Chinese invade Japan in 12 no sorry the the Mongols invade Japan Kubla Khan

founder of the Yuan dynasty in China yeah no because remember the Mongol Empire we did this it split into four sections and one of the four sections was the Huang Yuan dynasty Yuan dynasty right so Juan

anyway The Juan dynasty. So the Mongols or the Chinese, it doesn't really matter. It's the same thing at this point. And still today, if you're me, the Chinese Mongols, they invade Japan in 1274. This is a big, this is like the Spanish Armada sort of in the Japanese mentality. This is a very defining. So 40,000 soldiers, they arrive and the samurai are obviously, at this point, there's mainly like dance off combat kind of thing.

They're completely unprepared for the Mongols who are obviously. devastating at this point. Have you seen battle simulators? Do you ever watch those when it's like 10,000 Chuck Norris's versus like 9,000 chickens and stuff like that? You know, you've seen like battle sim fighters. Well, it feels like one of those,

like we're having Mongols versus samurai, it feels like a sort of, you put it into a battle simulator. Yeah. So it's off, there's lots of YouTube videos recreating this because it's like, it feels like that.

It's how autistic people sleep at night. Yeah. So the Japanese defenders are sort of struggling to resist and then this, quote divine wind which is in Japanese that means that's Kamakazi basically a typhoon

just wrecks the entire fleet and this then Armada yeah and the same thing happens again in 1281 where about 140,000 soldiers from the Mongols come over and again this massive wind Kamakazi destroys them

and so the samurai I now have this sumo farted Lizzo farts and the Mongols can't deal with it and then so there's you know they're kind of feel like they're blessed by whatever God they believe in. Blah, blah, blah.

And does that lead to the samurai being? Sorry, the kamikaze, that's the origin of the word. Yeah. Which then obviously is where we get the kamikaze pilots from. Yeah. Anyway, so blah, blah, blah. The emperor, now the emperor then in the 14th century, his authority declines.

And this war breaks out between the emperor and one of the daimio, the hojo. And at some point, the emperor, or rather one of the forces sides of the emperor, and rather than fight the emperor, the Hojo response is that all of them get in a room, 870 of their family, extended family. Get the guys in. And they just all commit synchronized Sapooka. Like, you know, you're in a gym and you see the old lady synchronized swimming.

Yeah. Imagine they're all just killing themselves. 870. Crazy. Right. That's the second largest mass suicide in history. So wait, is it Heaven's Gate is the largest? Oh, what, the Jonestown?

Yeah. I guess it. Is it? Which we will do a patron on, because that's awesome. That is awesome. I absolutely love. That's pure Wikipedia affair. That's one of the best Wikipedia scrolls.

Yeah. Is the Heaven's Gate massacre. 870. Imagine the extended family, just all in the house. I'd love that. At Christmas. Yeah, I'd love that. In-laws.

All my aunts. cousins and then what I do I don't do it I'm waiting for everyone else you got one of those swords you only put it in and it retracts oh no I haven't done it and I just walk away and I'd never have to be on a fucking WhatsApp group again so they set it on fire at the same time as doing it that's awesome yeah brilliant

so then the emperor's technically back but then he gets deposed again and essentially this just happens again and again and we start to enter the Sengoku period so this is where the samurai really start to come into their own as like sick in-cell heroes. Yeah.

Because it was a unified Japan. Now it's collapsed into feudal warlords and every feudal warlord has to have an army of samurai to fight the other one. It's a complete mess. So the samurai originally emerged

from the bushy class. Right. I don't know if I'm saying that right. Bushy clad. Bushy clart. Bushy clart. Yes. Yeah.

What's that? Kind of hairy fanny with blood on it, I guess. Say what you mean, Charlie. Enough with the Indian. I guess it's doing quite a lot of heavy lifting. It's a hairy family with blood in it, I guess. I guess you are guessing.

Yeah. A bushy clart. Show me the bushy clad. Who on earth's asking for that? Is that rap Jamaican island culture in the 70s? Bushy clart. Yeah, it was briefly de bushy clad. Your wife got them bushy clad.

You got tampon stuck in bushy clad. Amazing. Fifty minutes into a Japanese episode, we got Jamaica. How have we got Jamaica? you can accent him. Greedy. Grady. Greedy.

Anyway, so the samurai's primary role is to serve and defend their... Damio. Dynamo, the lords, the magicians. Dynamo. And my best friends, my granddad. And so they basically become sort of vassals, warriors of the lord. And now their code, their code...

So they're all the dinam... I'm imagining all the dynomor, the magician impossible. That's what they all are. So, no, those are the lords. and then the samurai are a bunch of hairy fanny hairy tampons anyway

so the samurai abound by a code and again as I'm saying this is what I like about fuel Japan is that there's rules

very strict rules if you if you don't adhere to the rules you kill yourself and you're lucky to now the way of the warrior is called the Bushido right

so the samurai were defined by the Bushido Bushido. So like a chivalric code. Yeah. Yeah. And so the several core values of the Bushido. Right.

Honor, loyalty, courage, self-control, and benevolence. Right. And so betraying your law, loyalty was more important than your life. Yes. Yeah, that's it, isn't it? Yeah.

That's where all the Sapuka comes from. It's the, and I wonder whether the religious foundation for Japanese people, Shinto, Buddhism, yeah it's it's uh i sounded like that woman in um uh shintai buddhism buddhism buddhism you're not a buddhist yeah i wonder if because they don't really they think they're gonna is it re-incarnation or something so if you support yourself they don't even seem to talk about reincarnation no i guess they're buddhist elements but what's interesting about japan and sort of china is that it's not like islamic or christian countries where it's deeply deeply defined by one religion no it's a very much

Like there's folk religions, there's Buddhism, but it's not like these huge wars of faith in the same way. It's much more like just the culture of Japan is a religion itself. Do you know what I mean? Pokemon. Yeah. That's people's religion. Hello Kitty. Hello Kitty.

Okay. Hentai pornography. You know. Yeah. This is the long road to squid porn, we should say. How does the country end up thinking that's acceptable? But you like, you know, England is within a European context, but Japan is like, because of the isolationism,

its actual cultural identity is so strong that it doesn't need to define itself by religion in the same way, I feel. No, but I'm wondering how do you, you know, the Sapuku being the consequence of disloyalty, how does a country think that that is okay or appropriate given from our perspective, you know?

Right. Well, how do you get to that point? Yeah, it must be because you have an attitude to life where life is temporary. what's that saying they go that suicide is a temporary solution to a permanent problem but they're like no other way around

no suicide's a permanent problem permanent solution to a temporary problem yeah to the Japanese suicide therapy is the temporary solution to the permanent problem of being alive

we haven't placed any of this and we should place this so this is the 16th century Japan is where we'll start off so this is it's after the Reformation in Europe and this is before

I think this is very crucial it's before Rennies Right Because if they had indigestion They would just spooker themselves Oh that's lovely Oh after you can get like a graph Of the invention of Rennies

And the amount of Sapu I think it immediately declines I think as Reni's coming Indigestion Yeah it turns out It wasn't dishonour Where you send the supuku's to unreleased gas

Yes The Rennies will otherwise Yeah, exactly. I guess it's controlled Sapuku Reni. It is, it is, yeah. It's an inside drop, Reni. It's like the hurt locker going in to, you know, diffuse a bomb. It's before Gavis gone, it's before Reni's,

this is how Japanese people are getting rid of trapped winds. This is the pre-Renny period. This is the pre-Renny period. Some people call it the Sengoku period. We call it the pre-Rennie period. It's because the Japanese are struggling with the trap wind. That's why they sound like that. Oh, no, hey.

Yeah. There you go. Anyway, someone must have Sapuku themselves and farted at the same time. Yeah, Sepatu. Sapuaku. Sapu-sapu-sapu-i-ing-ku. Yeah. Sapu-i-koo.

From a young age in the arts of what, what is it, Charlie? Is it kind of like a moral high-ground thing? Like, no matter what you've done, if you then kill yourself, the other person can't be annoyed with you. Basically, less than Reoconation, I just think it's just having an honourable death. It means that you can just put a great full stop to your life and it makes your whole life have meaning, right? Exactly.

So you've done something wrong, which could be. you've walked into the house with the wrong shoes on and you've gone I can't bear to live with that shame so what I will do is I will pass permission

may have commit suicide and if my lord grants me the honour of saying yes I will get down on my knees I'll wear a little white robe and I'll just gut myself like a fish

and then they have this second person who's called the cala cala cala I don't know what it's called but they write a little poem as well write a little death poem do an Instagram post yeah

Peaky blinders snakes all of you you're all snakes and then they get a short sword and they draw it across their belly and their gut spill out and that's supposed to be like a And then the other dinner guests arrive

Step over them Wrong shoes was it And then their mate chops their head off Because if they don't chop their head off That it would take you up to 90 minutes to die From disemboweling yourself Be a mate, would you?

So that's how they do it at the start. And then they introduce the second bloke to kind of cut your head off because that's where the honour comes in. Mates don't let other mates to pook us up, chopping their heads off. Come on, mate. Chop your mate's head off. Don't keep it all inside. Yeah, it's not talk to your mates.

Chop your mates. It's just, chop your mate's head off. Men. You need to disembow yourself. The samurai are trained from a young age, and the sword is called the Katan. The best sword in the world. Yeah, and it's interesting, or it's not actually that interesting,

but I was reading about why a samurai sword so much better. They fold the steel over it. Yeah, it's because they don't actually have that good iron in Japan. So what they, they come up with this technique of folding the iron or the metal over and over and over again. So it becomes really strong through folding. Origami, I don't fucking like that. Yeah, the origami steel. They have those little things.

What are those called? I don't know what they're called. What they called? Paper mashet? Not paper mash. No, you fucking idiot. What they call? The little things

where you fold the paper mash. I said so confidently. Paper mash. The little thing where you go, you have, you write like four little things. Fortune. You know what you know.

Origami. No, we just said that, you fucking. It's where you have, you're at school. you have the four things and they're little quadrants

and a cootie Carter I'm not writing filth on the screen Phoebe's caught whatever Charlie's got a cootie catcher it's not a cootie catcher they're not called that anymore you can't call gay people

that anymore Phoebe are researchers blatant overphobia cootie catchers called us both cutie catches you just call us both gay he's writing cootie catcher on the screen

oh god right anyway it's that thing isn't it whatever that is No, it's not that. It's not that. I didn't do it, then. I did Lego.

Yeah, whatever. It doesn't matter. I don't know why we even came up with it. The katana. So, the samurai trained from a young age. And this is called the Wackashudo. That sounds like John Travolta. The wickedly founder.

Wachishudo. And James Brown. Yidinsin Zimikishudo. The Way of the Young. Or Shudo. And this is a fantastic. this is absolutely fantastic socially sanctioned

homosexual practice amongst the samurai class I love this shit yeah this is good stuff very Greek this very Greek very Victorian very Nambler

very Nambler one of our most controversial patrons the angriest we found the line with most our patrons when we did the whole episode of the North American

Man Boy Love Association and it wasn't historical enough that was the issue and we did get drawn up child porn which probably was a line come on now this is this is social

sanctioned homosexual relationships between a young samurai and his master, or his mentor, I guess. A typically older Nenja, we paired with a younger, chigo, and the man was permitted if the boy agreed,

or maybe not, to take the boy as a lover until the boy came of age where he would become ruined, male perspective, and he would get passed on to disgusting women. So the relationship was formalized in a quote's Brotherhood contract.

I guess you could say that. My bro. And it was expected to be exclusive. With both partners swearing to take no other brackets male love it. Right. So there's a lot of jealousy

and like commit, it's commitment, right? So it's a codified system of age-structured homosexuality. That's what Shudo is. And the older partner, the nensia, not ninja, will come to those.

Ninjas aren't all nonses. Otherwise, I'd have to throw out my airfire. I've got a non-s airfire. I can't believe it. just chucking your airfire out of the window such a funny they what they're nonsense

imagine seeing your neighbour throw their air friar in the black bin nonsense a lot of them fucking ridiculous it's ridiculous

I can't believe I fell for it anyway the nenger would teach the chigo martial skills warrior etiquette I know I do feel the Japanese words

is giving this a lot more like a ritualistic sacredness than what it is. Look, this is the key. If you name something, it doesn't seem as perverted. It's peatophilia. I don't know why this is. It's not paedophilia. It's a code of honour.

If the boy agreed, brackets, or if he didn't. Now, the relationship was... This is how orientalised. This is this amazing ritualistic code. He's a pido. It's a guy in an Astor car park. It's not an Astor car park. It's an ancient code of honour.

The relationship was mutually ennobling. What's ennobling? I've never heard the word ennobling. Does that make each other more noble? Yes, exactly. It's mutually beneficial. Yeah, I guess peanut philia is a nobling. It's a noble.

Do we need to noble you, Charlie? The nensia would be a good role model for his little chigo. Both parties are expected to be loyal until death and to assist the other in feudal duties and in honour-driven obligations. So sex between the couple was expected to end when the boy came of age. The honourable thing to do. The honourable thing to do. And if you had sex with that boy, a day past his 18th birthday,

you would kill yourself for being, not being a paed for. Sex with majors. That's incredible, isn't it? Isn't that amazing? This is the culture we're discussing today. If you have sex with someone who is of age, of the same gender as you, you have to kill yourself to redeem yourself. Isn't that incredible?

Yeah. What a world. What a world. Take me back. Well, this is what's interesting about Japan being quite isolated. They come up with their own. stuff without influence. What are they doing over there?

Exactly. What's going on over there? This is what happens when you don't have loads of other outside influences. You're kind of like, well, I don't know. No one else told us this shit was weird. What? We're not meant to. Oh, right.

This is our culture. I don't know. Yeah, we haven't really spoke to anyone for like 600 years. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. If you leave them, leave on their own devices. Yeah. Pretty fruity.

So sexual activity of women was not barred. And once the boy came of age, they were seek to open to find other male lovers. and the nenger, the older ban, is the active penetrative partner. That's very important. Very important. Yeah. And the younger Chigo would submit to, he'd get bummed up the ass. Yeah.

I just thought, enough of this flowery language. Because, yes, the older had to be the penetrative partner. And it was basically not seen as gay if you were the penetrative partner. And the adult men were not permitted to play the role of the Chigo. Yeah, obviously, it was very weird. And again, playing the role of the Chigo is. is getting bummed up the odds. But it's a very nice way of saying it.

What you're doing tonight? I'm playing the role of the Chigo. I'm getting pegged. You've played the role of the Chigo, haven't you, Charlie? I have, yeah. Many times. Who's your Nenger? Are we your Nengers? I can be. I think we can be.

Charlie's our Chigo. Only pre-adult boys are considered legitimate targets of our potential desire targets. It's a moving target. Bull's eye. It's like clay pigeon shooting. It is. Pull!

Anyway. Fuck. Boom! So, now we need to, we need to get to... We do. The start of our narrative, really. So in the mid-16th century, which is where this chaos really starts to kick off.

Yeah. Is the Portuguese arrive. Right. They're shipwrecked. And I don't know where they're fucking going. I mean, they've got a base in McKayson. But this is Portuguese golden age

They're kind of like They lead the age of sales So this is the period So the Spanish and the Portuguese Divide the world Into two tiers Yes, yes And the Spanish get the new world

Yeah The West and Portuguese get the east So that's why Which is a sort of Something that this podcast Really supports Dividing the world into two It's just like

White people looking at a map And saying Well you have that Charlie what have you brought up there I think this is Achigo Getting Yes that is Now that's quite like

A beautiful quite a beautifully done ancient Japanese drawing. Isn't that incredible that are now blurs penetration? Wow! I didn't see it.

Look at his hog! Oh my God! So for those listening, I would switch to video now if you're on Spotify as... Is this going to get taken down or is it seen as historical? This is a historical art.

This is a 16th century wood carving. Because I think with a lot of this stuff whenever we're talking about like, I don't know, ancient pedophilia, it's all... Is he got his hand in his mouth? Yeah, look, to be honest, To be honest, because it's all like implied,

and there's a lot of euphemisms we've had around it. I think seeing that, where it's like, I don't know what I expected. Sorry, there's a head in the bin over there. That's like a Japanese cuck, but it's just a head. Just chopped up head. That's a 19-year-old. He came of age.

Oh, I see. So he's ruined. Is that someone just going, what's going on over there? Poking's head through a paper wall. That's Charlie on the internet. Anyway, let's get rid of that print. That's incredibly graphic. That's crazy.

crazy. Anyway, it's drawn, so it's fine, I guess. Now, the Portuguese arrived in the 1543 shipwrecked, and they introduced Christianity and firearms. Yeah. And this is crucial, because obviously it's been all this sword stuff, and it's chaos, you know, no, there's no central authority, daemios are fighting, but the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, will use firearms to TD Bank knows that running a small business is a journey from startup to growing and managing your business.

That's why they have a dedicated small business advice hub on their website to provide tips and insights on business banking to entrepreneurs. No matter the stage of business you're in, visit TD.com slash small business advice to find out more or to match with a TD small business banking account manager. His advantage. Yeah. So we should start with Ordo Nobunaga.

He's sort of like, I mean, historic figures for Japan, he'd probably be Henry the 8th in the sense that maybe he doesn't have the life, Henry 8th. They live very different lives. But in the school system, he's like a defining, he's the one everyone learns about. Japanese History 101. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Long road to the night night bomb. Yeah. Sort of Alexander the Great.

Yeah, yeah. This is one of his famous quotes. without a destruction, there is no creation, there is no change. Fair enough. Now, what Nobunaga, his kind of genius, is that he takes a very stiflingly coded society and basically just fucking tears it all down, does anything he wants.

Similar to Genghis Khan, actually. Kind of, yeah. Where it's just like, what if you're good, you're good, as opposed to everyone's following these strict rules. Yeah. And then he's like, you know. And he has seen as the first of three great unifiers. Yeah.

ultimately unified Japan by the early 70th century. And what's the rhyme that all the kids learned in school? It's not a rhyme, but it's like, Oden, Nubanaga, got the rice. Can we get it up? You heard this. No. I thought you were just making it up. Nobunaga got the rice.

Hideyoshi got some fish and Ieasu. You know what I'm talking about for you, don't you? Sushi. Look at that. Fish bash, boh. Yosh is your uncle. Nobunaga pounded the rice cake. Hideyoshi needed it.

And Ieyasu ate it. Yes. So it's the three unifiers, right? Yes. Yeah. That was worth it. That was not worth it. Oddo Nobunaga is born on the 23rd of June, 1534, in the Awari province, which is central Japan.

Japan is several islands. We haven't said that yet. But there's two massive ones, right? Yeah, Honchu. There's north and south by. And then there's fucking, they go all the way down to the Philippines. I didn't realize. And all the way up to like.

Russia. Russia. Yeah. Bananas. Anyway, so his father was Dynamo. Dynamo. He's leader of the Oda clan, and he was the eldest son, or Odu. And he's the eldest legitimate son.

Right. So he's got, what, an older brother who's disabled? What's illegitimate? Oh, just, oh, right. Yeah, out of wedlock. That was a fraudulent slip. All the same people are illegitimate. The Oda clan are warring with their neighbouring clans and,

blah blah blah what we need to get to is his dad dies so Nobunaga is basically like a little brat undisciplined

and he doesn't really want to become legal no one thinks he's going to have any be historic in any way no because he's not sticking to the convention

yeah he's like he's a punk yeah he's like fuck you man smoking weed lazy fuck you

fuck you man fuck you I won't do you I won't do you tell me I won't do you tell me I won't do you tell me fuck you fuck school

yeah He's listening to Japanese Mind Chemical Romance Yeah Micam MCR Yeah He's like Johnny

Where are you? My name's horse hard He's an emo He's an emo I mean he's called Nobu Naga You would be a bit You would hate your parents

Yeah Well Because of the The knob in your name Nobu Naga Anyway he's kind of like a punk, he's a rebel and

a loud as well he's a lout, right? So he's a lout, he's a rebel In April 1551 Nobunaga's dad dies Right Without killing himself which is very dishonorable

Yeah it's suspicious Yeah Because weirdly in my head The fact that he hasn't killed himself I am already disrespecting him Like I'm already been Come into this culture I can see how it grows

Because I'm like This guy died of natural causes Yeah, what's going on here? It's very rude. Yeah. What a cunt. Yeah, exactly. But that's now, spending time in this research, I'm now thinking about famous suicides

and going, oh, maybe they were just, maybe Mark Spate had done something terrible. Very, yeah. Or just, it's an honourable way out for something, yeah. Nobunaga's father dies. This divides the clan and the, you know, who's the most suitable successor is, is thrown into question. Now, nobunaga is on paper, the legitimate heir. But because he's, like, listening to MCR and he's spoiled and he's wearing his eye shadow.

Yeah. He, like, dresses inappropriately. And at the funeral, he doesn't, he's not dressed right. He's pissed. He throws incense at the altar. Fuck you, dad. And this made people side with the younger brother, Nobuyuki. Oda Nobuyuki.

They're all called Oda. It's the other way around, first, second names. It's upside down, that. Yeah. First and second names, suicide is honorable. age of consent the other way The other way around Yeah

So the older one Who's illegitimate He may be disabled I may be making that out We don't know We can't know We don't have time to know So he makes a bid for the leadership

Yeah People don't support his claim Blah blah blah At some point Nobunaga I don't He kills his brother And his uncle

Chops her heads off because he knows that the claim to the throne he got to get rid. So he's already showing a pretty ruthless street in the 1550s. Yeah. Killed his brother and uncle, done. He then forgave his brother.

That's easy to say. The one he hasn't killed. The one he hasn't killed. Yeah. Because his mother... I forgive you. Well, does that mean you? You just chopped my head off.

So Nobuyuki is still plotting against Nobunaga and then eventually Nobanaga just has him assassinated. Yeah. So he was like, I forgive you. he's that I'll promise not to plot again so he goes to plotting

then he kills him right so by 15 the late 1550s it's the 50s it's the 50s you know

it's the American dream picket fence you know your neighbours segregation uh anyway I always love it how that's just left out the 50s dream

segregation white pick a fence people talk to their neighbours obviously black people wouldn't anywhere near Yeah, the black picket fence is very different. Very different. Don't cross the picket.

Anyway, it's the 50s, and Nobunaga has taken control of his family clan. Now, just over the border, there is another clan, another powerful dynamo called Imagawa Yoshimoto. Yoshimoto is a good name. Yoshimoto. And also, it's very hard because I was obviously, you know, I was a kid in the 90s, so Nintendo. was a major part of my upbringing and all of these sound like Marriott characters

and Yoshi. Yoshi, whi-hoo! Yeah. He's aided. Well, that's how what Japanese culture has changed. It's gone from being samurai warring

to like making Nintendo games. Well, that's the night-night bomb, isn't it? It's just a hard reset. You drop an atomic bomb on a culture and they their medieval brutality becomes

But it's easy maybe to imagine Oda Nobunaga in this period as basically one long star mode. Yeah, yeah. So he's running around Japan and a little card. And he will meet his comeuppance. He will sip on a banana people. He will sip on a banana and just go into the abyss. But anyway. And then, you know, the other two unifiers are behind him and that's how they win.

that's another easier way to understand that if you're tuning out because of the language barriers just imagine a maro car race so Imagawa Yoshimoto he's a powerful daimyo and he is aided by the Matsuia daira

the Matsuda who's a longstanding enemy of the Oda family and Yoshimoto has assembled an army of 25,000 men to march on Kyoto which is the capital at this point should stress. Tokyo is not really

a thing. At this point it's called Edo. Ido Edo. Which, of course, Edo's a good thing. Yeah, all right. Edo filia. You're like, oh, thanks, mate. I know, you should have said that.

Oh, thanks. Oh, that's nice, cheers. Do you know what? I feel so good. So good. I might kill myself. It's upside down, man. Anyway.

So, Yoshimoto, who's family, his region borders Nobunaga's. Right. And he wants to march on Kyoto to make a bid for power. power and he has to go. It's Burnham, Andy Burnham. It is Andy Burnham. Yeah. It's the king of the north and he has to go through Nobunaga's territory to get to Kyoto. Right. Now on the way to Kyoto he enters Owari province which is Nobunaga's and they're capturing castles and they're plundering. Yeah. And they seize the strongest of the fortresses and they try to respond but they're a fraction of the size. So there's about 5,000 men.

that Nobunaga has at his disposal. The odds are stacked against our boy. Exactly. So a head-on attack is suicide. Which they would love. Which is a great thing. So that's actually incorrect. A head on attack would be to die naturally.

Yeah. So there's only one thing, one way of doing this. And again, this is not the dumb thing. This isn't cricket. Again, Japan is rigidly cricket at this point. There's ways of doing things. Nobunaga is listening to Mike Mep for. Fuck you, man.

Yeah. I won't do what you tell me. Yeah. Yeah. That sounded quite Mexican. I apologize. Yeah. So, this is one of the great, the legend of Nubunaga really starts here.

The battle of Okie Hasama. Yeah. Here he is. This is, yeah, this is when Nomenaga appears. It's like a legend. Ooi. O'i. Oh, he is.

The man himself. The big guy. who wants two beers this guy fucking legend yeah um so this is june 1560

Yoshimoto and his army set up camp at the foot of Mount Okeizama classic now on the day of the attack Yoshimoto's boys they're celebrating because they've had little victories

here and there they're doing a head inspection ceremony you heard of this well I'm suggesting we do that for our guests right no this is not phorology oh right sorry

it's not that Charlie thank you for the mind It's not... It's not inspecting how good they are at giving head. No. They cut off the heads of their... No, it's like Goldilocks. No. Too teet-y.

Oh, that's just right. It's not so gummy. But I can't feel anything. But it's not so teethy that I'm in pain. That's just perfect that. Goldie gocks. Goldy cox. It's not bad.

It's good stuff. There's something there. There's something there. You work it out. That's good stuff. The three bears The Bears of the gay men. I mean, there's a good porn known there.

You're saying it's the Bears of the gay men, old gay, hairy men. So Goldiecox is Charlie, walks into a house. I mean, there's a gay porn premise. That's pretty fucking watertight. Guys, we're just shitting out gay porn in this podcast. Why is no one making Goldiecox for the three bears?

We're printing money here. Printing money. Charlie, can you, there must be, that must be a porn. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Gold locks in the three bears.

Only stud, Marcus Rivers. Why is it? Takes three Cox in Perth taboo, step family gang bang. Why have you searched gay for? Because it has to be their bears. Oh, you're right. Okay, I guess it's already been done, fair enough.

Yeah, no, it has been done. Nothing original under the sun. No, I mean, every idea is. I've got no new ideas. Can you ever bang on this? No, no, I'm right, Charlie. We're not going to verify your age, Charlie. Let's not, let's not do that.

Christ. So, a head inspection ceremony, what this actually is is that you chopped off all your heads of your enemies. And then they basically, if anyone's seen the series showgun, which I've been watching and it's fantastic fantastic. It's sort of like

it comes in like a little bamboo steamer wrapped in some cloth. What? Like a bowel bun? It basically is a bowel bun but it's your enemy's head

and you unwrap it and then you just lift the lid and it's just like but they've got they've had makeup put on they've got their hair done you know. Right.

It's a big day for them they just commits it. Yeah so they're inspecting their heads and I guess this is just to sort of go oh yeah that's that was that guy I killed him he was great or whatever I don't know.

So it's a ceremony it's ritualized again everything is ritualized um so they're just he's looking at the heads of the people that he's coming it he's loving it so it's night time at the camp now you don't attack at night yeah that's that's not cricket that's not cricket yeah right but not like fucking a boy over 18 exactly it's not the done thing it's immoral but nabunaga he doesn't care no he doesn't care how old you are he's going to have sex with you yeah um the first First non-pedo man in Japan, Nobunaga. That's why, isn't I?

So, he goes to great length to make the Yoshimoto clan think he's in a different location. Even though he doesn't have that many men. So he's got to hardly any men. Yeah. So he sends a few of them up to like another. And they're all like, oh, there's loads of us. It's basically just tapping. Look over there.

Look at this. Oh! Yeah. And they've got loads of flags. There's like four guys going like, yeah, there's so many of us here. Yeah. There's a lot of fog. There's a big storm.

It's raining. and as the downport ends Nobunaga and his boys they charge into the camp and they attack now originally bear in mind they're all sat on chairs

looking at heads they think it's like a drunken brawl that erupted from their soldiers but by the time they'd realized what was happening it was too late because Nobunaga's in there

and they're chopping off and I mean I mean good time to do a bit of a sound scape yeah of I don't know ah oh oh

Who's that? Just one guy's having a great one guy. One guy. Well, do you reckon that's a speech impediment in Japan? Rather than, ooh. So it's like when you're thinking about a question. I mean, some animaes, that's how, that's how women in anime's, when they're considering something, they go. Because men go.

Instead of a stutter, which is humiliating. It's, ah. So it's four guys and then one guy's like, yeah, he's got a speech impediment. It's got a list fault. I was also thinking this, what's bad handwriting

look like in Japan? Because Japanese handwriting is incredibly already. And you have to be. But not everyone can be that good at handwriting. Yeah, look, yeah. I guess that's pretty bad. That looks pretty bad. That's how I'd write Japanese.

Just some smiley faces. Yeah. It's a funny thing to write quickly. if you had to write a message really quickly just having to draw the little boxes but again we should we should say that this is the Chinese script that they take in the

first millennium and they make their own version of it because what Japan is amazing at doing is taking they're never colonised they take things from the outside world and make it Japanese even when they're isolationists when they come back in like the 1800s they send a guy just to take all the best ideas and they take all the best stuff they've done that with America

post war with watches yeah bikes whatever they make it their own thing. But anyway, so back to Okahzama. The soldiers of Yoshimoto's clan are fleeing for their lives and then Nobunaga samurai go and actually kill Yoshimoto himself. Right. At this battle, he meets the two other unifiers.

Okay. In that Tokugawa Ieasu, who's the guy who eats the rice cake from your famous rhyme, he is fighting for Yoshimoto but switches sides. And Hideyoshi, he's like, so if you were in the Japanese army, you had samurai who were like, the elite knights, but then you had, you'd get people, you'd get the working class people in. And they're called like, Ash soldiers. Yeah, the foot soldiers called, they only started, Ashigaru or something. They only started being viewed as a military force in this period because no one really taken, fighting was a bit more ritualistic.

And now he properly uses foot soldiers. And, crucially, he gives them guns. oh yeah which i mean that's a brilliant idea it's a great idea because his dad's there like whin ching ching and he's like fuck you dad yeah he's got these Portuguese arquebuses yeah arquebous where have you said acabousia acabuzziere is comes into the the army as a ashigaru like the lowest of the low yes but it's so highly skilled yeah that he works his way up now this is a society where

social mobility doesn't really exist which we'll get to in a later episode but so his rise will be amazing Hideyoshi but anyway at the end of the battle it's not cricket but Nobunegat Nagu wins sure he returns triumphant to kiyosu castle and takes Yoshimoto's head for display

right and so prior to this battle there was a real chance that the Awari province would fall completely to the Yoshimoto but somehow with the odds stacked against him he is now the most powerful and feared warlord in central Japan. Yeah.

And so other day Dinemales pledged their allegiance to Nobunaga He ate that shit up and left no crumbs. He ate that shit up. Yeah. And so Tokugawa Ieasu who was the leader of the Matsudaira clan

who had been fighting him with Yoshimoto he switches allegiance and becomes one of the three unifiers. That's Nobunaga's rise. Yeah. So we're going to leave that episode here. Nobunaga is in charge. What could possibly go wrong?

Well, the country is still not united, but Nobunaga is on one. We're going to talk about ninjas, the Korean War, not that one. And there's even more suicide. You won't believe it. If you'd like that episode now, it's already on our Patreon where we recently hit 20,000 members. Look at that. 20,000 members and not one bar of six. soap between them.

It really is. I mean, that's a feudal army, right? It is. They've all got swords. They've all got katanas. They've all got katanas and they've got full armor and shooting stars. I think,

I know, they're all got samurai outfit and glasses. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's really thick glasses. And, yeah, if there was some kind of patron war,

we'd have a good chance, I think. Just with the quality of the, the authentic katanas. Yeah, yeah. They would all kill themselves, so the minute that we don't put an episode out,

they all kill themselves out with dishonour. Anyway, if you'd like to join our army of smelly, mentally handicapped, boys, it's just three pounds a month and you get access to the next episode,

ad free. A trove of a treasure trove of bonus episodes as well. If not, no worries. We'll see you next time for more adventures in feudal Japan. Goodbye. Are you tired of starting your day with pointless political arguments, superficial summaries and lukewarm hot takes on the radio?

Then switch to the bunker where we look at the news without the nonsense. Every weekday morning, the bunker brings you a bro. brand new, in-depth look at just one story. From the chaos in Washington to the seismic political shifts in the UK to business, economics, history and pop culture. Or start your week, our essential Monday morning roundup of the week's upcoming stories. Weak up through the noise to bring you what matters. That's the bonker. News Without the Nonsense. Every weekday.

With me, Andrew Harrison, Ross Taylor, Jacob Jarvis, Gavin Esler, Zinging. And me, Seth Jebel. Find us wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you.