Fin vs History - “My horse, my horse, oh sh*t I’ve lost my horse” | Richard III and The Princes in The Tower (Part 2)

Episode Date: April 3, 2025

Richard III has manipulated his way to the throne, but in less than two years his naked corpse will be flung over a horse, with arrows shoved up his arse. Did he die doing what he loved? The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened. For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon https://www.patreon.com/fintaylor?utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator Get an exclusive 15% discount on Saily data plans. Use code TRUTHER at checkout. Download Saily app or go to: https://saily.com/truther Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back to Finn versus History. As ever, I am joined by Horatio Gould. Oh. I didn't have anything. They're getting worse. You took me my surprise, then. They're getting worse. That was just a feeble.

That was an Australian noise. Aw. Oh, not the boys. Where are the boys? fucking boys gone. And this is the second part in our series on Richard the 3rd or as we've named him, Beckham against Greece,

spine. Where did we leave up to last time? He's about to become king and there are two beautiful, gorgeous boys in his care. Yeah, well I think, so it's before the coronation, right? So technically, what is it? Because now we've taken the actual name. I don't know what his official name

is. Edward the... Who's a beautiful boy one? What's his... Edward the 5th? Edward the 5th. Yes, Edward the 4th. So what's happened is that... He's technically king, but he's awaiting coronation, right? He's 12, his brother's nine, and has already been widows. His brother is nine is a widow, and is responsible for the entire running of the country of Wales. He's the most mature, nine-year-old of all time.

He's the nailing it, really. He's absolutely nailing it. He's going to collect his pension at 15. Now, we've called him gorgeous sweet twink, too. I don't know... I think his name's Richard of Shrewsbury, I think. Anyway, so where we left off was that Edward VIII, the Big Shagger, who's married to Gail Porter on Big Ben.

Yeah. The bald mistress. Elizabeth Woodville. Elizabeth Woodville. Big Shaggers died, suddenly, from eating too much. And now there's a power vacuum. And Woodville, because she fears for her safety, because everyone wanted her dead, but it was just Edward the fourth because she was married to the king, keeping her alive. She does, which is a medieval, a very interesting medieval thing. She goes into sanctuary. Do you know what this is? Is this when you go to a church? You just go to a church and no one can kill you. It's homie. It's weird that, isn't it? It's like a sort of playground game

where you touch base. Yeah, all of this is a lot like a game, to be honest. But, yeah, Sanctuary, and they respect it completely. You can literally just run and you're just at homey and no one can get you. So she just goes to a church and... But what's she doing in the church? I think it's where Abbey potentially.

She just stay there. She just stays there. Oh. So, but it's great, you know? If you're ever in danger, you just run to church and it's just people waiting outside like, fuck. You can do that now because, no one fucking goes into church anymore.

So they're like, where's he gone? I don't know. Okay. Because the decline of Christianity in this country. Yeah, because churches are essentially just sort of squats. Yeah, yeah. They're squats for old women to drink tea in. Right, yeah.

Yeah. They're like Tory squats. Right, right. Churches. Right, right. In a sort of a normal squat is probably, I imagine, quite sort of leftist anarchist. Sure. Because you're so leftist that you don't believe in chairs or whatever.

You think they're corrupted. Yeah. So. Uh, yeah. Now, Big Shagger, Big Shaggar's death means that at the age of 12, beautiful boy number one is technically king. But he's too young and too gorgeous to be king at this point. I think when you turn 16, you're able to be king properly. 16, you can have a glass of wine with the meal. Yep. You can buy in cell scrap metal. You can buy from sales scrap metal. You can learn to drive without passing your test. Yeah. And you can get married with your parents' permission. Fine. And you can fuck In a straight You can fuck if you're straight But back in these days

I don't think they have an age of consent No gorgeous sweet twink two Has been widowed for three years I think age of consent came in in the 70s Pretty much If if even Arguably When did the age of consent come in Charlie

Modern wokery if you ask me Yes absolutely woke nonsense The age of consent This is just the state Overreaching If you ask me Yeah the nanny state 1875

Well, the opposite The legal history They're very complicated Can be summarised The age of consent For girls Was 12 in the 13th century First age of consent

Was lower to 10 in 1576 Now who's campaigning for that Is what I want to know Lowering the age of consent That is something When was the first age of consent Created? It's very funny to have an age of consent

That's 10 Right In 1576 English law made sexual intercourse With girls under 10 A felony While acts with girls Ten

Mr. demeanors. So a slap on the wrist. Right. So this is insane. So under 10, you're going to jail for being a pedo. Yeah. Right. 10 to 12, it's like petty pedo. Yeah. The idea of petty pedophilia. Right. Right. Right. Right. That's incredible. Yeah. So rather than breaking and entering, it's like, oh, you pickpocketing. Yeah. Come on. Yeah. So what? Is that community service for being an odd? Yeah. Cleaning up litter picking. Yeah. So anyway, he's 12. He can't be properly king until he's 16. Yeah.

And so there is then a sort of struggle for who has the most influence over the beautiful boy. Right. So who's going to be the region, right? Who's going to be the region?

Now, Frader from the godfather's been killed because he kept attacking his brother. Yeah, he's been drowned. So he's out of the picture. A barrel of wine. In a barrel of, uh, mamsie wine.

Gale Porter's favorite. Mark, what's Marmsey? It's a type of, uh, type of wine that's like a medieval type of wine. Okay, boring, boring, boring. Yeah, exactly.

Um, Gayle Porter's brother, Anthony, Woodville. and Beckham against Greece spine, they're beautiful boy number one's two uncles. Yes. And so I guess really this, the whole story is where the archetype of the British creepy uncle is born

in that Richard the third is the quintessential creepy uncle. Yeah. In that he's got a mad spine. Yeah, fine. He's got a little hand. Yeah, okay. And he, why are you pulling back?

That's just for you. Go on, yeah. And he takes these little boys into his possession. Yeah. And then maybe kills them. Yeah. Yeah. We don't know.

We don't know. So, but essentially now there's a power struggle between Anthony Woodville and Richard. Anthony Woodville? That's, yeah, Elizabeth's brother. Oh, is he trying to come in? Well, he takes the boy first. So when the fourth dies, a beautiful boy number one is with Anthony Woodville. And so Elizabeth Woodville's brought a fucking shedload of her family, which is really

upset court. Anthony Woodville is quite an impressive character so he like in like jousting competitions between France and England he's the one they put forward so he's like the ultimate jock as well he's like Chris Hoy or something and he actually wins against France so he that you know

the boy looks up to him yeah and apparently he just has a very like nonchalant calm cool collected you know that's like it's like an uncle you like that's an uncle you find creepy that's what this battle is the only way to fight a bad uncle is a good uncle right yeah and the only way to stop a bad uncle is

A kid with a good uncle. I don't know. Do you travel a lot? I do travel a lot. Really? Yeah. And often, when I'm out there, I'm looking for ways to get connected to the internet, right? Yes.

Sometimes when I'm trying to see if I'm getting ripped off, I might want to get connect to the internet very easily. Yes. To check it if that's the case. And you're going there with a fucking modem and an Ethernet cable. Exactly. Please, my friend, please. Because one of the most annoying things about going on like a three-day city break or something is you have to go to buy a sim, install it. and just then take it out again.

You'll lose the sin. Can't be asked. Yeah. I'm already dealing with the bad food, the smelly people, and the, uh, my inherent racism. My inherent racism. Why am I here? I can't even connect to the internet to see what's happening in Great Britain.

And if you download the saley app and you plan ahead, you can watch whatever, whatever hardcore filth you like from the comfort of your phone, you could be squatting over an excuse of a French toilet watching hardcore. bonography on your phone. They're called French toilets. Is that what you call a lady boy? Sorry, Paris. I mean Paris. You could be in Paris. No, I mean the squat, you know,

the squad ones. Right, right, right, right. You know, where they're not toilets. Yes, yes. It's a hole in the floor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With two kind of shoe marks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like the ergonomic grips. The cradle of civilization. Yeah. The French. Saley is proud sponsor of Finn v. History. So if you want to save on roaming fees, download the Saly app now. You can either scan the QR

code on screen or click a link in the description and use the code truther to get 15% off your first purchase. Hawaii. So, when Edward the 4th, the classic Shagger dies, a good uncle is with the beautiful boy. Right. And they, he's like, well, I've got this.

He gets some troops together. And then, but then Richard, he he's worried because what you don't want to happen is the beautiful boy to mature. That's the end of that sentence. Yeah, nothing. What you don't want to happen is...

Ruined. Spoiled. What you don't want to happen is a beautiful boy to mature. Anyway, moving on. No, what you don't want is for him to mature and become king and then start cleaning up all the rival factions. Because that's what always happens is that if you're in the wrong tent, when the boy becomes the full king, he will knock you out.

So in Richard's defense... Because as beautiful as a young boy, be and how innocent and sweet they will grow up to be a horrible ugly man and who will kill you that's the problem you know it's easy to say oh this boy wouldn't hurt a fly but he's going to grow up in four years he will start killing beautiful boys that's the life cycle of boys to men yeah so richard are boys to men around at this this time sorry do you want to place this for the dumb don't know I think this is before boys to men we're in the 1480s so it's before boys to men it's after the mention of the loot yes I'd say so yeah definitely I'd say so I'd say so yeah I'd

But loot is just loop music is in the charts It's really, it's peaking at this point I'd say it's my least favorite instrument Well, the loot Yeah And people that like lutes But you prefer the triangle

Or the recorder Yeah For the recorder to the lute Yes Yeah No, I think a lute's better than record Because the recorder's in your mouth So they can't fucking talk

While they're doing it Right A lute player's often Hello sire It's all that shit In the bin In the bin Put them in the bin

Okay Although a loot probably has a good You can reckon you can whack someone Over the head with it Right do some damage. Yeah. A recorder is just good for, yeah, shoving up your ass, I guess.

So now there's a power struggle between the two uncles. Right. And the beautiful boys. Clash the uncles. Clash the uncles. Uncle off. Yeah. Who would win in a battle between your uncles?

Probably my uncle Andrew. My uncle Andy, but that's by marriage. I've got an Anthony Woodville, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no, it wouldn't be Anthony Woodville. Yeah, because Anthony Woodville's by blood, though, because he's Elizabeth Woodville.

brother so does the uncles by marriage count so i'm not blood related to him right yeah yeah well then he'd win for sure why what's he's he's what's he's he's just he's one of those um very outdoorsy posh guys yeah right uh who only swims in the sea uh from the months of like october to february as soon as it starts warming up a bit he's like well this is uh this is this is awful this is terrible i don't think i've ever seen him in water above 17 degrees yeah yeah i go i got he's like someone who's stolen Like, every holiday is like a Duke of Edinburgh exhibition. He listens to Diabby CEO.

No, no, God, no. You wouldn't even know how to use a phone. Oh, I see. Right. He knows that. He's that out of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like, you know, he's got that sort of like kind of posh approach to holidays where it

needs to be as much work as possible. Yes, of course. You know, you'll, yeah. I can't, I can't be alone with my thoughts. Yes. So he wouldn't be. In the car. In the car.

In the car. In the car. Right. Right. Let's go. In the sea. Freezing cold. Brilliant.

Yeah. Yeah. It's just work in a different way Totally So now Anthony Woodville is You know He's good one with

So who'd win out of your uncles You got an uncle who'd In your uncle off I've got several uncles I have one uncle who's a KC Right Doesn't mean he can fight well though

No he wouldn't be able to fight well At all Exactly He could press his trousers though Well he could maybe press The other uncle Into a trouser Yeah

He'd Yeah I reckon he would, he's very, very smart, obviously. He's a top lawyer. Right. So he's a nerd who needs wedging, baby. It's tall there. I'm not sure you can wedge him. Right, fine. I reckon he'd find a way to put my other uncle in a jail. In a trial. In a trial. In a trial. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. Back to the story.

Uncle off. It's an uncle off. And Richard, famously, the way you win the uncle of is by taking possession of the boy. Right. Right. Right. Richard doesn't have the boy. He needs the boy. So, sort of like the boy's sort of like a rugby ball and it's whoever's holding it. You can only pass it backwards. You can only pass it backwards. So he now needs to tackle Anthony Woodford. Who's holding the boy running around England.

He's passing it to his brothers. Yeah, yeah. Richard needs to get the boy. And then he needs to get it over the line, which is into the tower. Yeah. Right, that's the game. So, Richard then says, well, I'm, hang on, I'm actually related to Big Shagger by blood. You're, yeah, you're just the brother of fucking Galport.

Yeah, yeah. So I need the boy. Yeah. And Anthony Wobble's like, well, come again, man. Yeah, fine. I don't know about that I was sounded. Yeah. And then that now it's like quite a sort of, in my head, they're like, they're quite horny riding on horses trying to get the boy.

Right, right, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. I think what happens is that they arranged to meet in Northamptonshire. In a car park. In an Astor car park. And Richard's going to say Who are you here to me? Who are you here to meet?

And then Anthony Wood was like, oh, no, what? And then, yeah. They're going to meet an Astrocar bike in Northamptonshire and exchange the boy. Right. However, Richard gets there and realize he's been catfished.

Right. Because Anthony Woodville has set up somewhere else. Fine. And then Richard is fucking livid. All right. Yeah. Because he needs the boy.

Yeah. And so he then goes to find. wherever the boy is and he takes the boy with an army and he then executes Anthony Woodville. Right. Okay. I don't know that. He just, he just kills him. So he gets the boy back and kills Anthony Woodville. Yeah. In a battle. No, no, no. He goes to Parliament and he says Woodville's a nonce and they go, no, he's not. And he goes, well, I'm going to kill him anyway. Right. Right. Okay. Fine. But to be fair, I mean, it's easy to see this as like, this is kind of the moves of the time. Everyone's doing these sort of moves, right? To be fair to

Richard. Yeah, there's a lot of... It's like, you have to do this sort of stuff, and it's for his own survival and stuff, and everyone's playing this sort of game. It's a mad game. It's a mad game we have to take a boy to the tower. Exactly. And if you don't have the boy, then you have to call it all or not.

It's the rules of the game. It's the rules. I feel like this is sort of like an American trying to understand cricket. Right. And it's like, what do you mean silly mid-off? Yeah. No, this is the rule. It's the rules.

I don't know. The whole point is that. So you have to get the boy in the tower and kill the uncle and the... You throw six balls and you change ends. Why? I don't know why. It's just the rules. Yeah, yeah.

What happens now is that Richard gets the boy. They go down to London. Woodville's out of the picture and they set the coronation. They go to Madam Two Sores. They have a great day out. London Eye, Madden Two Swords. They go to the Devonshire's trying to split the G. That bloke from Top Jaws going up to him going,

well, where's the best place in London to eat? And which is like, ah. Yeah. Best pizza in London. Well, yeah. So instead of Top Jaws, it's shit back uh

shit back shit back and it's so yeah it's medieval top jaw which is bent spine and he gets bent spine and weirdly the ugly

ones in front of the camera right right right and the beautiful boy I mean basically Richard and Richard and Edward the fifth is top jaw yeah isn't it

because you've got the one with the bent spine behind the camera and the beautiful one in front of it right so they have a great day out in London they see all the sights and then Richard

now his coronation has been set the beautiful boy's coronation has been set for May the 4th. Okay. May the 4th. All right. So, because he's a big Star Wars fan.

Yeah, he's a fucking nerd. Right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so he's going to have a Star Wars theme coronation that sadly we didn't get to see. Didn't ever see. Yeah. He was going to dress up as Luke Skywalker, you know. Rich's child, Brian was going to dress with Princess Leia.

Yeah. It would be an, oh, Torrid affair, and I'm glad he's dead. Exactly. Yeah. And then Richard all the while, his brother is, who's widow, and he's like, what the fuck you do with Star Wars? I'm trying to run. Wales here and I've lost my wife.

Can you fucking get serious for a minute? That shelf is not... We need a spirit level because that shelf is completely wonky. Is this plywood? We can surely get something. Takes his phone out, the torch is on. For fuck's sake, how do you get this thing off? How do you get this off?

It's on all the time. He's got glasses right here. What? Dad, look at this. Oh, um... Bollyall, I'm already nine. Christ. Nine, for Christ sakes.

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Adventurous side journeys together with third row seating. The new out your adventurous side. Mitsubishi Motors drive your ambition. So, what Richard does then is he postpones the boy's coronation by a while, like six, seven weeks. He knocked it back into June. It's been rained off. There's been rain, go right, well, that can't happen. And he...

Put it inside. Shut up. Shut up, shut up. And he puts the boy in the Tower of London. Now, that's not a sinister move. No. Because the Tower of London at this point is like the Royal Palace, like Buckingham Palace. Yeah. Well, it's just the most secure place.

Well, part of it's a prison, but it's also a royal palace. Yes, sure. It's not like, it's not got that reputation as the Tower yet. Arguably, that happens now, maybe, with what's going to happen later. And they have no idea that comedian Tom Houghton is going to start making content about living in the Tower of Lundon. They'd hate that. They'd absolutely hate that.

Yeah, so one of the boys is in the Tower. Yeah. The other boy, the fucking Administrator of Wales, who's been widowed, he's in Westminster Abbey with his mum. desperately trying to just hold on to... Yeah, the sanctuary. Yeah, he's in sanctuary.

Richard knocks back the coronation, which is a weird thing to do. And I guess this is... This adds to the suspicion, maybe? Yeah, because the snow, there's clearly scheming. And maybe he's trying to buy himself time. I don't know. Right.

Or maybe, I mean, he's, you know, he's basically, when he stands up, he's at 45 degrees. So maybe he just knocks something and knocks it back up. Right. Do you want to get out of the theories? Because maybe we'd start talking about the...

Well, just to finish, what happens then, is that then Richard then says that his mom, Cecily Neville, was a slag. Fine. And that she, that Edward V, I don't really understand this bit. Basically, he says somehow that Edward V is illegitimate and a bastard. Right. Because he says that Edward VIII, the Big Shagher,

was betrothed to someone else. And then that person she was portrayed to has since died, so she can't defend that accusation. Right. Basically, he manages to concoct the fact that the beautiful boy is illegitimate. Yeah. So then what happens is he crowns himself and he locks both boys the twink as well in the tower. So he's called Edward the fourth illegitimate?

No, Edwin the fifth illegitimate. Yeah, fine. Because he says, and he says, yeah, which is really, that's when you start to think, okay, you are scheming here. If you're calling your mum a slag to be king, that's like, that's not really on. Yeah. It's like Prince Andrew going. well my mum was a slag that's where I get it from

so Charles shouldn't be king I should be king yeah that's confusing yeah it's he calling his own mum a slag yeah he is but I think the main thing is is that he says that Big Shagga was portrayed

to someone else and that invalidates the marriage with the beautiful boy anyway what I don't really understand is that no one really questions him but I guess there's just a sense that this is the he's the guy and we should all fall into life

yes because we don't want to die exactly now because you can't go against someone who's most likely to get the throne because if they get the throne they're going to kill you So it's like everyone's fencing And running to who they think is going to win

So Beckham against Greasbine He coronates himself He ditches the Star Wars nonsense I just have a normal coronation And that's in 1483 So this is the most common theory Up until quite recently Now what, sorry, the boys are then seen playing in the garden

Right In like June or July Yeah And then there's the odd like Oh is that them at the window Right And then they just never seen again.

Fine. And then this, this really is the mystery. Because also while this is happening, I remember this is all Yorkists. We haven't talked about the, the Lancastery and the AIDS side of the family, John of Aid's side.

Margaret of Andrew, Brackett Smelly. Biden from birth. Now he's dead and so is his heir, Edward. But Margaret of Andrew is still doing stuff, I reckon. Right. She dies 82.

So that's before this. No, that's before this. I've got no idea what's going on. I'm completely lost. Right. But there's rebellion against Richard pretty instantly as soon as he's king and so what the theory goes is that he's like well if there's an opposition to me as king the focus of that opposition is the beautiful sweet boys

right so i'm going to kill them right that's the that's the classic theory and during the reign of charles the second who uh was the the one the king who was restored after the english civil war they found uh two small coffins buried under the tower of london with the potentially the skeletons. Well, they found some skeletons, but it was mainly animal bones. Right. Because it's only recently been exhumed.

It's definitely not them. Right. Because there's like a pig's head. Okay. It's like a pig's head and a cow's shin and like maybe a boys rib. So I'm pretty sure the beautiful boys didn't look like that.

And then I guess the thing that cars aspersia was maybe on this theory is it's very, it doesn't really open the way too much Richard. So Richard loses Battle of Bosworth, right? Yeah. So Richard's only king for less than two years. And then... Henry the 7th, Henry Tudor, who is sort of like a Lancastrian, but still kind of lessen name.

It's interesting after this crazy Game of Thrones that this guy ends up winning, Henry the 7th. Henry the 8th dad, right? He sort of this Welsh nobleman. He ends up marrying the sweet boy's sister. The horribly ugly daughter. Yes. But before that, he defeats Richard. the 3rd at the Battle of Bosworth, famously depicted in Shakespeare, my kingdom, my kingdom, my kingdom, my kingdom for a horse. A horse, a horse, a horse, my horse, my horse, my horse, my horse, my horse, my kingdom for my my kingdom. My kingdom, my kingdom, my kingdom.

Where am I? Hello? Hello? What's going on? Yeah, so the Battle of Bosworth is in 1485. Yeah. That's Richard III dies, the last king to die in battle. Yeah.

What happens is that he, him and Henry Tudor are fighting and his, and Richard's, I want to say like stepbrother or something is called maybe Lord Stafford I don't know right I don't care anyway there's like this third army that's watching and there's this whole thing about like whose side are you going to join Oh they're just going to see he's doing better

They're basically like we're going to see he's going to be better And Richard the second third Rather Beckham against Greece he gambles And he's like the night before he's like If you don't join me I'll like I don't know kill your sister or something And then he's like fine I don't care she's my sister who gives a fuck

Right Because that's not a threat from the medieval period brilliant I don't have a sister anymore I don't know I've got 15 sisters

I got 15 sisters they all smell I don't like him yeah so then he basically goes into battle and Richard the third is beating

Hemmey the 7th army yeah Henry Tudja's army but then last minute fucking super sub Oligona Solshar comes on

Stafford or whatever his name is down the hill and then wipes all the fine Richard gets knocked with his horse he says his favourite line

I want a horse yeah Oh, fuck, where's my horse gone? Fuck. Yeah, the famous, the mortal line. Oh, fuck, I'm off of a horse. Oh, shit, I'm falling. I fall off my horse.

Ouch. Yeah. Immortal. The immortal Shakespeare lines. Fuck, I've lost my horse. And then what happens is he's several men. Bear in mind this man is disabled in modern day language. He's fallen off a horse.

Maybe, actually, for the first time, he's fallen off on the right side. Maybe a spine straightened. Yeah, maybe. Oh, I'm fixed. No, no, I'm dead. Ouch. Oh, bang, dead. So he then...

Six people or seven people hack him to death, partly because it's very bad luck, I guess, if you're superstitious, to murder a king, a disabled one of that. So they kind of all do it together to sort of share the burden. But then the blows rain down on his head.

They basically like fuck him up from behind, break his spine. And then they strip him naked and they flop him over the side of a horse. And then they shove arrows in his ass. And up his ass and up his ass in his butt cheeks because they're laughing.

Just all right. Like Gaddafi. This is what's funny now in this day and age. Right. And to be fair, I mean, it is quite funny.

It's quite schoolboy. Imagine King Charles dies. You strip him naked, put him over a horse and just sort of play with his bum and he's parading around. Yeah, I guess so it's quite funny. It's quite funny.

Yeah. It's quite funny. So, I mean, maybe not Prince Charles because he's an old man. Yeah. If Prince Charles was a young, Prince William dies.

Is it, Prince William was a kind of young disabled man? It's mental. Yeah. I mean, we like quite spicy stuff, but I do think shoving an hour up and a disabled guy's ass and maybe a bit too far. I don't think modern society

would cope with the... Anyway, so that's the end of Richard III and then Henry the 7th, Henry Tudor, to end the War of the Roses, he decides to marry... So Henry the Tudor is on the Lancasterian side. You know, make a champagne souping over. He marries the horribly ugly daughter

of the two missing boys, who I don't know what she's actually called Elizabeth, probably. Yeah, she's Elizabeth, the York. Fine, great. And then that starts the, they have a son who becomes Henry the 8th and that's the whole.

That's how all begins. But for the rest of this episode, we're going to be dealing with these gorgeous boys. Well, so basically because history's written by the victors, right, Henry the 7th ends up basically winning the Game of Thrones. Kind of last minute, no one had really seen this guy coming, but he swoops in at the end, ends up on the throne. It's still quite an insecure legacy

that he leads to Henry the Sevens because so much has gone on and to kind of make sure that his line to the throne is secured it's very much in his interest to cast Richard III as a tyrant probably what drives the idea that Richard the third

is this awful tyrant more than anything is the Shakespeare player Richard the third and that was written during the reign of Elizabeth I first and she's obviously a Tudor so he's playing favour to the Tudor line by casting

the King of the Four. He's one of Shepard Shakespeare's greatest plays that's not a compliment it's still a play so it's still quite boring way to spend three hours especially because

you're standing up which is it's torture it's like Mao is torture going to the globe now as we've said all torture methods for a little bit they're good

and I feel with the play when the lights go down you think oh this could be quite good and then as soon as it starts you're like oh fuck I'm watching a play there's a bit of excitement before a play

the little hubbub before the excitement the interval it's literally oh god a play oh ice cream oh god more play home time right right do you see how I'm always still fat in the head I'm going to the theatre for an ice cream

how was the play well the shock ice and half time was delicious you're not even facing the play no no I'm just eating I'm literally I'm standing in the front with that guy with the tray just been like yeah I don't know another one you know one you know when People go into a bar in America and they sit and just keep him coming.

And the guy just gives him from the bottle. He just gives me the tray of chalk ice. It's not like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll just take that. So I heard a theory on a podcast, again, quite boring, that Shakespeare was actually in painting, the way he paints Richard the 3rd, he's actually painting a guy who was around at the time called, fucking, I don't know, Cessaly or something.

And he had a hunchback. and he was a pretender to the throne and he was a cunning guy and so when everyone at the time would see the play they'd be like, ah, in the very Hawaii News for you way this is actually this guy

because this guy very droll, get this on Radio 4 in the 6 o'clock slot you know people's father in all were going, have you seen that new Shakespeare play that's very funny very funny very funny very droll

yeah I mean it's a shame that the gorgeous sweet twink didn't live to see it because he would have loved it that nine-year-old who'd been he would have been all over that Have you seen this play? My God, it's funny. It's absolutely brilliant.

My God. Hugh Dennis is an absolute genius. Paul Merton's quick, isn't he? Paul Merton's quick, isn't he? Wasn't Paul Merton quick? Anyway, so Richard III, the play by Shakespeare, could actually be about someone that was alive at the time. Right.

And because in the play, he's got a hunchback like this, whereas in real life, he was like, I know. So, anyway. How cunning he was, you know, it's like judging it by the standards of the time where you don't have to be that cunning. Like what he does with the boys, that's kind of all he can do. Once you've taken a boy, you sort of have to kill them because... Okay, all right.

Because... I learn a lot from you. These are all sorts of tips. No. If you've taken a boy, you've got to kill him. No, you... If you, right. Go on.

If you take a boy... Right. And you try and give them back, you'll be called a pedo. Right. If you take a boy and then you kill them and they go away, then you're not owning up to taking the boy. It's a tricky one because if you're the parent of a boy who's been taken, you're like, well, I hope they give the boy back and you kind of want to promise that they, you

were, look, don't kill my boy, give him back and I promise I won't call you a nonce. If society was, if he did give it back, you would be like, well, now I've got the boy back. You are an awful non. So it's a tricky one. It is. But what society needs to get better at is not being so judgmental about nonces who take boys

because then the boys would come back. Yeah. Because it's a tricky one. The nonces feel backed into a corner where they have to kill the boy. Yeah. Right. Stop backing nonces into a corner of a corner of.

No. They feel trapped. You've seen the videos. They're like, and they just lash out and kill the boy. Yeah. So basically the power games

that they're playing, once Richard has got the boys in a tower, I mean, what's he going to do with them? Yeah. You can't keep them alive because then there will always be a like a flagpole for discontent. Right.

The main theory is that he killed them. I don't know how. Smother them in their sleep, maybe? Yeah, I don't know. I can't imagine you can't, I don't think you can kill a boy that's that good looking any other way, really. So because we don't know where their bodies are,

it's quite a bit of a McCann situation where we don't have the proof that they're dead. They clearly are dead, though. Later, They're clearly dead, yeah. Perkin Walbeck, right? This geese comes in and says, I am the Prince of the Tower.

Similar to the, you know, the Polish girl who said she was Madeline McCann. You remember that? Yeah, I did remember that. Which was fucking awesome. Can you just explain for people who might not know? So if I don't know what her name is, can you go, Polish girl who says she's Madeline McCann?

I have a lot of love for this woman. I think she's a fucking legend. She went on Dr. Phil, I think. Yeah, yeah. I'm a, and there's also loads of like, you know, mystic influences who are saying, I felt the aura, this is definitely Madeline McCann, basically this kind of troubled 16 year old girl who, you know, a lot, when you're a teenager, you often, uh, feel like, you know, these aren't in my real parents, you know, there's a rebellious kind of Avil Levine sort of like, yeah, fuck you mom, you don't fucking know me. Yeah. And she's taking it quite far because she was like, she didn't remember. memories before she was five like most people yeah I don't remember

she put two and two together and said I remember being in like a car when I was four yeah so I am actually Madeline McCann reborn fuck my parents yeah you know and her parents who are just very kind of like embarrassed

like this is what the fuck are you doing yeah what yeah this is really you're Polish yeah Madeline McCann is from Liverpool yeah so but then she goes on didn't she go on

Yeah, Dr. Phil saying, I'm definitely, and then it came out. They do a DNA test and they go, you're not Madeleine McCatton. Yeah. And she's like, what? Yeah, and then she apologises. And she's just there like drinking tissue. But it's just a funny way to completely, for a teenager, just completely fuck over their parents to basically say, you kidnapped me, abused me. Oh, does she say that her parents are the people who took, Maddoinacca.

Well, obviously, because it, you know. Well, no, because I thought she could be taken by someone else and, you know. Right, yeah. I think she was sort of implying that, though. Right. So Perkin Warbeck. is the Polish girl and she was like I kind of remember

when I was like three sort of I kind of remember being in like Portugal when I was like three potentially just like adding all these memories and what's amazing is that the American audience when you watch Dr. Philcliffe they don't know that they're like oh maybe it is

and then he's like well obviously she's not and she's like what she's like wow yeah so anyway that that's what this guy probably is Perkin Warbeck is like the Polish girl who thought she's yeah claiming to be Richard Shrewsby Duke of York

He was the second son and one of the so-called Prince of the Tower. Richard, where he alive, would have been the right for claim to the throne. So he basically just rocks up during the reign of Henry the 7th and says, I am the prince reborn. And then was he then killed?

Yes. Warwick was initially treated well by Henry as soon as he confessed to being an imposter. Oh, so he confessed to being an imposter. He was released for the Tower London was given accommodation to Henry's Corps. He was even allowed to be present at Royal Banquins. He was, however, kept on the garden,

was not allowed to sleep with his wife. He was living under the protection of the queen. After eight months of court. And then he was killed. Right. So he admitted he was an imposter. Yeah. So, you know.

But there's a theory also that Henry Tudor murders the boys. Because it works perfectly for him. Yes. Yeah. It plays into his hand better than anyone. But no, because Richard gets, Richard's king before the boys go missing. Well, what's interesting, listening to Philippa Langley, or whatever her name is, the one who found Richard in the car park. Yeah.

She went on Dan Snow's podcast. And, you know, she is dedicated. 30 years of her life to this and it's like even more so than the Jack

the Ripper all Titanic nerds this is a niche historical community which is sort of like Rich the Third Truthers Ricardians

I mean I really could not care less about who did this true honest there's some mysteries I really am interested in this one

for some reason I really don't care but she does yeah and she has basically said the best way to view this is start from a

complete clean slate so she's got all Ricardians and historical all over Europe to send her all documents from this period in Europe from the year 14 fucking 80

over a three year period when this could have happened every document every document so there's about 450,000 documents she's like blown up three computers they're like this is so boring but they've killed themselves it's like howl from space honestly it just yeah it just explodes and she seems to say

obviously we don't know what happened but it seems to be implied it's like the the boys in the tower they might have been alive for much long there's like it's not clear that they're even killed like she's cast everything into aspersion basically and we we kind of know nothing is well there's a theory that one of them ends up in devon living under a false name yes there's a lot of theories but then it's like why would you keep him in devon yes and like you promise not to say i'm actually the boy that should be king and then the duke of buckham is one of the big um if anyone killed it was maybe the duke of bucking yeah and again

i don't know who that is the buckingham rebellion the margaret both are theories some historians suggest that the death of the princess might have been orchestrated by Henry the seventh's mother, Margaret Beaufort, who's got a very interesting story that I don't remember, but it is good, we might cover that, who sought to eliminate all rivals to her son's reign, good mummy, you know. Yeah. It's like a private school mummy,

you know. Oh, Henry Stafford, is that the country? Who's at Bosworth? Yes. Right. In this theory, Margaret might have been, since all worked to collaborate with Henry Stafford, Duke of Birmingham. Bumham. Duke of Bummingham. That's a Freudian slip right there. Duke of Bumham. to arrange the murder of the princes

He probably is the Duke of Bummyum in this day So he's a bit the king maker this guy And clearly King fucker Yeah Death from illness theory Some less sensationalist theories Yes that the prince has got a cold

Right And given the fact the boys were confined to the tower It's possible they fell in and died of disease I mean that's very common I don't know how this is not being covered though What I don't get is that they disappear And then Richard dies And then Henry

And it's like But no one no one fucking's like where do those boys go? What I don't understand is I've heard this to a podcast about it It's like the greatest mystery In British history It's one of the biggest like moments

Of British history But I just don't know why I don't find it that interesting The actual princes of it I like all the shit before I found the War of the Rose is really interesting Yeah but you're autistic But I don't know if the prints of stuff is that Yes it is this is what dads read the sun for

Yeah I guess so It's what they go into calves With red and brown sauce And they get the sun up They go where those fucking boys Where are the princes They go on question time And they ask Emily Maylor

Where are the prince? You know, that's what this country is, right, right, right. They're calling to LBC. I'll tell you, didn't it. Daily mail comments. Exactly. That's what this country is. They're obsessed with young boys and where they've gone.

Yeah. Okay. Also, I guess because Richard III has been painted as this evil guy, it's almost like those Michael Jackson interviews where he was either side of the boys. And he was like, yeah, they did they sleep in my bed? Everyone's like, what? Mike, that's not cool. and he's like, well, I never,

I never got to be a child, so I never had a sleepover. As he's feeding his monkey. Yeah, yeah. And everyone was like, mate, you can't do that. And he's,

and it's a bit, because Richard III's just like, yeah, I put the boys in the tower, what I'm meant to do? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? It's like the,

it's the shamelessness of it, I guess. Yeah, because I guess it, there's so much underhand shit going on. Everyone's killing people to get on the throat. But I guess this is just because their boys

is what makes this stand out. And there is nephews. It should be said. Yeah. Shit uncle. Is it worse if he killed them or fucked them? It's worse if he fucked them, I think. Really?

Well, killing them, it's like, it's a game of thrones. Fuck them makes you just like a sick nonce. Right? No, because killing them to get on the throne, that is just the game of thrones. You're playing your hand. Fucking them feels like, well, that's not in the rules. I'm looking through the rules of cricket.

I'm like, I don't know. No, but if you've caught them in the tower and you're the king, then fucking them is like your reward. right but also to be fair like winning a week at the apprentice and you get

you know you're the winning side when you get to suck off Alan sugar is that what the award is you get to notch off Lord sugar well Nick's Nick sat there going oh that's horrible

so but also what I will say in Richard's defence if he has fucked one of them is that one of them is literally a widower yeah he's been through a lot is it noncery if the 10-year-old is a widower.

Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Because age is a concept. Yeah. Now, listen, I'm not trying to talk myself into the just fine. It's like a six-year-old British dad who's come with like a 25-year-old bride and calling her very, oh, no, she's very precocious. You know, those kind of goes, oh, she's very mature for her age.

Yes. I bet she is Ian. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe he's just, he's a very precocious little twink. But also in this day and age, people married foreign, the whole thing was you married a foreign, Margaret of Andrew, racket smelly,

you married a smelly foreigner. Right. Because that was the, that was the done thing. Okay. There's a lot of, like, like at this point, I didn't really understand any of this,

but like France and Burgundy are different places. Yes. The Burgundians, yeah. I guess they're all part of the same kind of smelly toilet, and by or whatever. The medieval latrine. Yeah. But they're,

they're competing factions. So I don't know. It's an interesting, it's an interesting argument, isn't it? Yeah. Is that age is just a number. Now that's the thing you say,

when people are old but it's not something you could say trying to justify how young they are you know that kid's 10 well he's been widowed oh it's just a number isn't it who do you think did it then I don't really if Richard's banged up in the tower and he's already king I guess he ordered them dead I think

you think it was Richard yeah I think I think I think it has to be but I also think I think what I think is he's been backed into a corner where his only out is killing them and that's not to justify nephew aside whatever it's called

infanticide but one of them's been widowed he's lived a good life yeah yeah he's had more than me he's had the good innings yeah he's had like a fucking

rampant 2020 innings where it's only been like you know six overs but he's got a hundred yeah I really don't have a theory on it to be honest I should do but I'm like I can't make heads of tails

of it to be honest it was one of them right that's your take it was one of these cubs did it so we should then talk briefly just to finish the story up richard the third is obviously painted as his horrible disabled villain but now because now you like you don't know how now there's that movement of like don't give bond villains facial scars the abelist yeah because it's abelist now i feel like the same thing's happened to him where because he got found in a car park

um and there's been this sort of and that was celebrated as like we found the last plantagenet king and we're going to give him a proper burial and they did that you know they did a facial reconstruction of what he looked like yeah and then that woman was like he's so beautiful he looks fucking terribly as anything now there's been this almost revisionist kind of in the popular sense because it's such a good story finding this king and burying him properly yeah that i feel like that whole like oh yeah he was actually he was actually dude law in the holiday yeah he's not a disabled he's not blowfeld he's jude law And it's that whole thing of going,

don't give bad guys scars. Don't make bad guys disabled. Don't judge a king by his disabilities or if he murders his nephews. Well, they're two different things. You know, Stephen Hawking cheated on his wife. Right.

You can't give the man this moral virtue because of his condition. Well, one of his disabilities, he has to cheat on his wife. Well, that's fair enough. Okay. Well, if he's got a badge saying, I have to fuck someone,

that's not my wife, then fair enough. He gets free parking. Yeah. All men arguably have a disability. There was Rich the Third was on at my uni. the drama society was doing it and there was a big hullabaloo this was kind of in the peak of I guess won't I imagine uni's never really been woker than when I was at uni that felt like very

much the peak of it this is like 2016 to 2018 this is like right in the but yeah because there was they weren't getting an actual disabled person to play rich the third really they thought it was able to have an able body person play that role and they don't think it's able to force a disabled person to play rich of the third they were like scouring the whole uni to find a guy with the right disabilities. And it's like, I don't even like acting. You're fucking do it.

You're a mong. Get on the stage. But also, the word disability covers an insane amount of spectrums from people who are disabled but can still win fucking Wimbledon. Yeah. Right? To someone who's literally a puddle. Yeah.

So like, what, what, what, you know, like Stephen Hawking is essentially, essentially. A puddle. A puddle. But then you're like, that puddle still manages to cheat on his wife. to be fair that's his greatest achievements I don't know what that makes his wife yeah he discovered a lot of stuff as well

but he also yeah he discovered other women who weren't his wife he was pretty horny for a puddle but like you know so the idea that you would surely it's less woke to force someone who is in the wrong

disabled subgenre to play a guy who had scoliosis yeah yeah it's like you're just painting everyone in the same and you're forcing them to act and they don't want to act and also it's kind of rich to the third plate it's just a fucking limp as well

no he's got a hunchback isn't he yeah I guess yeah maybe well but then I suppose now nowadays because of the current obsession with neurodiversity they probably make Richard the third autistic right right and then the fact they go oh I killed those boys well no he just they broke his routine and it's fine actually right right right

because actually you've got to be sensitive maybe at ADHD I mean that would be quite I mean ADHD is such a fucking lightweight disability that would be quite an interesting interpretation that he just he goes, what, sorry? Oh, what was I doing? Oh, yeah.

He just has time blindness. Yeah, he just killed two boys. No, no, no, no. So it's Richard III and all the actors are doing it's scene and when he's meant to walk on, they're just waiting for like 10 minutes. And then he comes in, sorry, I'm late, I'm not a strike of time. I'm quite against.

I'm always late, sorry about that, sorry, sorry, what did you say? Yeah, that would be quite a funny way to just have the character keep coming in really late. Yeah. Who are they? Do I kill them? No, right, sorry, no. don't really know what's going on.

I guess there are now productions of Richard the 3rd where there's all kind of everything's... I mean, is there ever going to be a full body disabled? Well, I think a good production of Richard 3rd to be everyone else is disabled but Richard the 3rd. That would actually... That would kind of give like... You know what?

They do things to make you really think about a new way they'll have... If it was a black man and a white world, you make everyone black and the one person white just to kind of like reimagine it. And I think you would imagine what's like being disabled more if there was just one able-body guy and everyone else is disabled.

I would feel pretty weird if everyone else was in a wheelchair and I was the only guy standing But then if he kills everyone in the wheelchair That's even weirder, isn't it? I guess so. If you go, this was a good guy If the whole idea is that you're reimagining him

as a good guy And then he just kills a bunch of disabled people Yeah It doesn't really work, does it? So we should wrap up Richard III is buried in He's killed at Bosworth, he's hung over a horse naked

A horny woman who finds him in a car park And then a very horny woman from Leicester finds him in the car park. Yeah. And then she like starts, I mean, now what she's doing? What's she doing now? There's a whole image. I think she's running out. That's him.

Yeah. Yeah, that's him there. And you can see his head's like, oh, because he's been. He was found with a big thing in his back of his head. Like it's with a big blow. He was smashed with a broadsword in the back of the head. Can you get up the facial reconstruction of what they think he looked like based on a skeleton? Yeah.

And so there was a Lester Comedy Festival gig. that I think Sean Walsh was on and it's in the cathedral and so it's right in front of Richard the 3rd's grave because look at Richard the 3rd's oh let's have a look. It looks like like he looks like he I mean that's who loved Lord Farquard's based on

probably yeah yeah the evil king yeah so this is what they think he looked like yeah he looks like Lord Farquad he looks like a woman let's do Richard the 3rd's coffin so this is yeah so I think it's just you can go look at it is a tourist attraction basically

and so yeah there was just like a complation night in front of this coffin yeah well you had to do a gig in front of Richard the third's coffin

so now I think the same woman is now starting to find the boys now one interesting postcript so the boys were obviously found in the tower

and they were then buried in Westminster Abbey by Charles II but they were then found out to be mainly animal bones and they exumed that in the 30s So the boys were animals?

Yes. Right. That adds a, that's a crazy theory. So actually, Richard's third was just hungry. Right, right, right, right. And he just killed a couple of pigs. Oh, right. So Ed of the Fourth gave birth to two dogs.

Yes, I should have said that last episode. Sorry, ever the fourth has given birth to two dogs. Worst detective in the world. Yep, sorry. Right. So they were dogs. They were dogs. No, is it...

No, when they were doing some work on Windsor Castle in the, I don't know when, they accidentally knocked through into the crypt and they found another crypt and this is the crypt where Edward the fourth is buried with Gail Porter yeah and they found two child's coffins in another crypt and they were given the names of Gail Porter's Elizabeth Woodville's other kids from the previous marriage except those people are buried elsewhere so the theory goes is that the two sweet boys are actually buried next to their parents but but we engraved marked with their half-brother's names. Why would they have had the wrong names to stop them being?

I don't fucking know. Yeah, I guess, sorry. Or care. I wish I hadn't asked. I was just trying to wrap this up for the dumb-dums listening. I don't know all care. That sums up this podcast so well. I don't know or care.

Fuck off. Stop asking me questions. Fuck off. Why are you asking me? I don't fucking care. It's just fucking boring. They found the nonce in a car park and it's the beginning of the British obsession with nonstery. That's why I wanted to do this episode.

Do you want to do a sum up of the family tree? Let's go through the family tree quickly And then we'll wrap this up So to make sure everyone's up to speed So the start of the early modern period In Britain, the start of the Tudor line We go all the way back Edward the third

Gives gives birth to Lionel Messi And John of AIDS John of AIDS is from Lancaster You know right mate, I've got AIDS Lionel Messi Hey Afroyos Messy gives birth to Richard Walrus Rawls has four kids

Three Kids Big Shagger Afraid of him a godfather And then Beckham against Greece free kick, last minute, spine. Big Shaggar marries Gail Porter on Big Ben. They then have three kids. They have a beautiful boy, number one, a gorgeous

sweet trick number two, and then a horribly ugly daughter. Now, on the other side, John of Aid's side, you have Henry V who hates the French. He gives birth to Biden from birth back at Charles' mind, who then marries Margaret of Andrew back at Smelly. They have a kid who's also called Edward, but they die, and then Henry the 3rd.

fifth's other wife marries someone called Owen Tudor who gives birth to Henry the seventh who marries the horribly ugly daughter to unite the houses and then they give birth to Henry the eighth and Henry the seventh ends up on the throne that should clear things up yeah that's the Wars of the Roses comprehensive comprehensively dispatched Richard the third we don't know if he killed them but I do think he fucked them he was found at a car park yeah that's the definitive take if you want all episodes on Monday and a bonus episode every day also without any ads do sign up to the patreon become a truther um it's also the best way to get

tickets to our live shows yes which sold out entirely yeah it's hold out entirely on the patron so maybe we'll see you there one day for more uh more truth more education more academia but if you want to expand your mind if you want to you know get educated if you want to would like to change the things that you already know into things that are more interesting and less boring You know when you're on Wikipedia pages and they say please donate to support this kind of this wealth of knowledge? Yes. You know, you've been using this free resource so much, but please just, that's what we're asking for. It's pedopidia.

Yeah, exactly. Pedipedia, the patron. Either way, we really appreciate you stopping by and we will see you next week for another topic. I'm going to be able to be.