Fin vs History - My pronouns are He / Himmler | The Eichmann Trial: War Criminal (Part 1/4)

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

If the Nazis were a Stag Do, Adolf Eichmann was the guy who phones the pub and books the table for 12…but when the sesh ends, Adolf doesn’t want to go home The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened.  For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon https://www.patreon.com/fintaylor?utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Light the path to a brighter future with stellus lenses for myopia control. Learn more at SLOR.com. And ask your family eye care professional for SLOR Stellas lenses at your child's next visit. Welcome back to I'm joined by Horatio Gould And today, I've been a very good boy I've come down It's Christmas morning

And my stocking is full of Nazis Oh, I've been a good boy this year the restraint we've shown as a podcast extraordinary I mean I think it should be treated in the same regard as the hard as a Giza Yeah He ran Africa I started a history podcast

And I did the first crusade before I did anything to do With the Nazis Well we should have done it for a sort of a comment relief charity thing Yes So like William Swimming the Channel Yeah We should be doing I think 26 episodes Without doing one about the Nazis

Yeah I mean it's a similar feat And I had to base myself in goose fat to get through for ending medieval Jamie Lang's just done that thing on radio one about him running you know

again I think we could do videos yeah Greg James going like it's amazing that's another week without talking about it's so hard

my body hurts it hurts everywhere it hurts everywhere I ache um today I'm very excited bloot

I've been such a good boy and today is my treat a real treat it's been a treat a few weeks actually Iranian revolution Darwin,

eugenics and now today we're talking about Adolf Eichmann the lesser spotted Adolf it is as history goes

I think it's it's like Toy Story 3 it's a perfect film right you would not change anything yeah

sorry I mean from the moral point of view I changed quite a lot so you're crying at the end I mean cinematically it's incredible

yeah the story it's it's the Nazis, it's, it's 60s, James Bond spy scene. It's, uh, justice after 20 years. Yeah. You know, it's, it's an incredible story. It's a, it's a, it's a Tarantina revenge film as well. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's, uh, what's the, what's the, what's the glorious bastards? It's like that, but it's, I mean, it's, I mean, that bit of it's quite less showy.

It's quite, it's quite, it's a very long trial. But it, I mean, it's, it's, it's just amazing. It's, I'm going to, I'm to say this could be I don't know how many episodes it's going to be I'm going to go big it's obviously one of my favourite things has ever happened it's glorious yeah the whole thing is glorious I mean because we're dancing around the Nazis as well

we're edging around it so we're going to you know it's nice putting putting your toe in with one little oh the water feels lovely it's so comforting the warm bath of the Nazis so today we're going to be talking about the early life

the early life of Adolf Eichmann who Otto Adolf Eichmann Well, he had several names over his life, which we'll get to. But Adolf Weichmann, just the top line is probably the highest-ranking Nazi that was found after the war. He was heavily involved in the Holocaust. Now, obviously, which I guess we should say is still contested for balance. We should say, if this was a BBC show, we'd have to say, you know, allegedly, we'd have to have David ICON as well just to make sure that all opinions are represented.

But it's one of the good things about new media is that we can just say the Holocaust happened And if you don't like it, then stop watching But yes, he was heavily involved in the Holocaust He was a bad man, real bad man Or the most efficient civil servant of all time You can make your mind up Can you blame a machine for what it does, you know

Was he just a cog? Was he just a very, very good? Just a humble cog The story is incredible It spans the globe, it spans 20 years in this episode we'll be dealing with his war record

allegedly and Ikeman it feels like you know we could do it to Mikeman you know used effectively

they could be a real force for good you know right yeah I see if his trains were spreading friendship and love then you could

spread them really quickly yeah because I mean his defense is that he just fucking loves trains the man who love trains too much this is the dark side

of Francis Bourgeois but he's like Yeah, this is dark bourgeois. This is Vichy Francis bourgeois, if you will. Man, that's a real Havaguan News for you, joke that. Yeah, that's pretty good. That's very nice, very, very droll. Arrivalu's for you is around, we should say.

This is the, it's been around for 500 years. This is the late era of Arvaguan's for you, the 40s. So Adolf Eichmann is a, it's a German. He's got one of those German names. Yeah, I mean, his father was called Adolf as well. Yeah. So I guess, I guess it sort of, does that mean, that Adolf Hitler is essentially called like James Hitler.

Yeah, probably, yeah. It's very classic. Because now it's so tainted. Well, that's what I mean is that I guess, you know, of all the punishment, Germany has had to go through as a society of all the rightful, the rightful punishments, you know, eradicating one of their staple names. Yeah, because they eradicated. Yeah.

Yeah. I guess it's, you know, it's an eye for an eye. You know, you got rid of all of us nearly, so you can't call anyone Peter. Is that fairs fair? I guess so. One all. This series is, this will be a real, it'll be a real test of whether our audience is actually on the same page as us in terms of taste.

Yeah. Strong stomachs for the lot of you. The iron stomachs. Let's hope this doesn't get shared on, on X, sincerely. Yeah, no. That's a risk. I mean, X has just gone crazy with the Nazi truthers. Has it?

I mean, it's fast. I saw there was a six-hour documentary. quite well produced about how Hitler's the most misunderstood man of the 20th century. I'm listening. It opens with an artist.

Misunderstood at his age. Yeah. No, they're bad boys. I mean, we should stress that we had, on our patron, we have a four-part series on the rise of the Nazis. And obviously we are going to deal

with the war, but we're still working out how we deal with topics that are so big, you can't do them in a week. We should be doing a month at a time with the...

A month on every. On every theatre of the war, on every year of the war. So the rise of the Nazis is on our Patreon. And our take really is that, as you're seeing in those episodes, that the Nazis is the greatest stagler that's ever lived. It's the greatest, it's the boys, unchained from any kind of domestic pressure. This is what they will do left without wives. And men left with an internet connection.

If they're not watching pornography, they will eventually be looking at the Wikipedia page of the Nazis. Exactly. And working the way through it. if you've got you know you've got a spare 20 minutes to kill get on the Nazi Germany Wikipedia scroll down I'm all right into either wanking or they're listening to us talking about Nazis that's what these people are doing but what happens with Eichmann and and you know

post Nuremberg the Nazis that flee is I mean imagine that guy on a stag do who's gone the hardest and they're about to get their flight back and he goes nah I don't want to go home I'm carrying on the party and he stays in fucking yeah he met he met a girl in a bar yeah you got a wife and kids no fuck that I'm gonna keep drinking I'm gonna wake up and keep drinking I'm gonna I'm gonna move in yeah with this with this lady boy that I've met and that's my new life that's essentially what Eichmann does it's yeah in some ways and then and then he's brought back 15 years 20 years

later and put on trial by his wife and kids and he's in a box and he looks very unhappy and guilty as they just read off a litany of all the awful things he's done on the stag do goes, I didn't do that, that's a bit much Oh, bloody hell Really? All right, keep it light.

Yeah, God, all right, it's a stag do What do you expect me to do? What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas? I stayed in Vegas, that's what happened. I was just following orders. That's what you'll say, I reckon. well we'll say when when this podcast gets cancelled and then i've escaped i blame my brains out you run away like a rat right to whoever or have you yeah and then uh and then you'll be put on trial

and they'll be like you apart this podcast you go i was just following orders yeah i was a cog in the machine i have no idea what the numbers meant i'm a civil servant that's all i am regret is something for little children this is a quote from life from him so that's who you're dealing with really that's The match you've actually got that up on the wall. That is actually one of the motivational. Yeah, it's a good thing you don't turn the cameras around. There's a lot of, well, I'm calling motivational symbols.

So, we're, we're dancing around. We're dancing. Let's crack in to the beast. Sorry, just back on the stag do analogy before we crack in. He's actually, he's the guy.

He's not the guy who stays. To be honest, in the stagdo party, he is the guy who books everything. Is he not? Yeah, no, he is. He's the guy who's, yeah. Have you got this? He's making sure the t-shirts are printed.

He's not coming up with the nicknames. I put the hotel. You've got to wear your t-shirt on this. Yeah. He's put the call. Here, come on. Yeah, right, guys, next bar. We've got to go.

And at the end of it... You don't want to be stuck in a conversation with him, but if he wasn't there, the stagoo wouldn't really run properly. And at the end of it, when he's saying, this stag dude was a crime, he goes, no, no, no, no, I'm not responsible for what happened in the pub. I just made the reservation for the table for 12. Yeah, exactly. I didn't make any wolf whistles at the street.

I didn't bring them home but I did get the people there what happened there is not my problem he's the Jeff Bezos We all know an Eichmann though That's my point Is he's an archetype

He's not the type of Nazi I would have been I'm not an Eichmannesque guy No really you know I think I'm much more of it I'm an ideas guy you know I don't run efficiently I make a lot of mistakes

But I'm just I'm a spitballer We all have friends We all have friends of Eichmans There's Eichmann's everywhere I'm just shouting that's what I'm doing. And someone's trying to vaguely translate what I said. I'm a performer.

I'm the one with the devil lies that I get the masses in. The dark charisma. The dark charisma. And no one's really listening to what I'm saying. They're just seeing the ballets. The ballet of him's sliding a couple of lines in front of you. And you're just like, that's what I'm doing. I've got the floppy hair.

So Adolf Eichmann is the eldest of five children. His father, Adolf Karl Eichmann, devout Protestant. and has a managerial position as an oil company. Right. So it's a family, it's a middle class family of boring. Dullards. Dullards.

Yeah, I mean, I guess this is, nowadays he'd be listening to Dyer of a CEO completely earnestly for advice on how to be better at work. Yes, the best part of his year is probably the tough mudder he does with his colleague. Oh, Aikman's doing tough mothers fully. 100%. He's just average.

He's just, he's the logistics guy of Stag do. He's, Maybe, you know that video of Gareth Southgate in the early 90s when he's at Aston Villa, and they're all, all the Ashton Villa players are talking about their favorite drinks the night out. You know, Mersen's going, yeah, I'll have like 10 Yeager bombs and a vodka cider. And then Gareth goes, well, I'll mainly drink water.

But the weekend, you know, I'll have a couple of beers. That's Eichmann, right? That's the other Nazis compared to Eichmann. Yes. He's the, he's the straight man. Right. in a in a in a in a in a in a in a platoon of camp cartoonish videos he's the straight here we go yeah during the week i just drink mostly water and stuff like that but i you know i enjoy a few beers

at the weekend to unwind that's that all right man got southgate uh so we should probably place this actually for the listeners so we're talking about the the the post war years 45 uh the trial which we'll get to the end of the series in 1961 so to place that 1961 this is after um the munich air disaster man united have lost their entire team um yes yes they've lost their entire team but it's before um beckham's goal uh from the halfway long right so it's that era busby's babes dead beckham's ball buck of the net yeah that's that if you're a united fan you know exactly what i'm talking about that should place it precisely yeah and uh he he basically his early life you know he gets sucked in to the devilish eyes of the

Fuhrer at an early age. He joins the Nazi party in, I think, 33. So he must be what, in his mid-20s? Yeah, what I found interesting about him is that he wasn't even... I think the idea of a lot of these kind of really efficient Nazis as they're just kind of like

these smart kind of machines efficiently. But he wasn't even that intelligent. No. He didn't do well at school. He was incredibly average. It's not like he was some... I think he didn't even complete school. Yeah.

So he was actually quite thick. Yeah. it was he just had like his brain had a rare very narrow intelligence yes admin that he found later in life well he he no one has ever really been better at admin than this guy and you can say the worst things that happened in history which is the holocaust would not have happened had you been in charge of they would love it if i was in charge the trains would be late there'd be replacement buses they would break down you know there would you need it In order to carry out this level of evil, you need some rock hard, solid competency. Yeah,

which is often missing from like great films about good and evil. Because the thing is, is that like... You don't see the Eichmann of like in the, with the orcs and Lord the Rings.

You don't have one of those guys. But Hitler's like, you know, he's like Jeff Bezos. He's like, I just, I want, I wanted to try to arrive the next day!

And then some poor cunt's got to go, fucking hell, all right. Let's build a big warehouse. We also said this. So we have to, right. Build a big warehouse,

getting them all in there. We won't pay them. their work until they're dead and then you know you press a button ordering some fucking you know

milkshake powder well Pete officer says he says just tell me what you want and I'll see what you can do he's he's he's uh who's Harvey Kytel in Pulp Fiction

you know he's the the wolf the fixer yeah that's what Ikeman is so in his early professional career is travelling salesman yeah

junior clerk at the vacuum oil company yeah which is an American firm which later becomes standard oil so there's blood and no as well um he's a loser as well he's a complete fucking dweeb yeah he's as he's got as we talked

to know rides the nazi series a huge appeal of the nazis and the people who took over is during the vimar years where everyone's shagging everyone's polyamorous they've all got like kind of blue hair smoking yeah kind of like all that sort of stuff cool liberals ran that society yeah so fucking dwebby incelly losers were had had no state no in this period so the Nazis really gave an opportunity because if you look at the high command of the Nazis they're not these are Aryan supermentches

Uber metches a lot of them are just these really dweeby fucking fat losers I mean Eichmann is an even a loser within that group yeah yeah yeah they all they're all kind of like bully him I reckon yeah yeah because you got who's the big fucker the really big is it Rudolf how it no Rudolf Hess is the Auschwitz he's the Auschwitz commandant uh Guring's big isn't he Is Guring the big fucker?

Big fat one. Big fat one in the white one with the medals who's the head of the Luftwaffe, even though there's no way he can get in a plane. He's booking two seats on a plane, Herman Guring. So he joins the Nazi Party in 33, 32, the Austrian Nazi Party and the SS. So he's straight into the SS. Yes. Which not everyone, you know, the SS is.

The SS is basically like the, the inner, the Masons of the Nazi Party. Like it's the boys within the boys. It's the big WhatsApp group. You start another little WhatsApp group. with the like the faithful. But is it like Hitler's security force, but then it's more than that? Normally it's meant to be Hitler's...

It's meant to be like a crack paramilitary team. Right. But then it basically becomes an elite. Yeah. So the Austrian Nazi party gets outlawed in 1932, and so Eichmann flees to Germany, where he trained at Dachau in the SS. Dachau obviously later becomes pretty bad.

But as we said in the rise of the Nazi series, this point, it is a fat camp. Yeah, well, yeah, he's trying to lose weight, trying to get them, trying to get him to bulk up. So I guess, you know, when you're looking at his defense later on, if he's moving, if he's leaving Austria, because the party's been outlawed to move to, you know, how much is he a, how much is he a true believer? That's quite a damning early step that he makes. Yeah, it's a status he finally has a bit of power and respect. He doesn't Have anything else? No, because he's got no mates.

Yeah. He's not, he's thick. But he puts on the big shiny uniform and he just feels powerful. Yeah, yeah. He can, finely as people he can tell what to do. Big collar, big hat. It's everything to him. Ontario, the weight is over.

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What could possibly go wrong? You know, anyone's saying, anyone denying that the Nazis have a thing for the Jews in the 30s. You know, no other religion's got on affairs. Yes. Do you know what I mean? There's not a Buddhist affairs. There's not a Muslim affairs.

So that should be a pretty red flag. Yeah. Now in 1937, he travels to Palestine, then called Palestine, on a mission to explore Jewish emigration. Because I suppose the Jewish policy that the Nazis have, evolves over the 15 years they're in power

at the start it's okay stay there yeah then it's actually no thanks go over there yeah

well they're thinking about moving to Madagascar at one point yeah exactly so this is where they start going okay

go over there yeah and then they go sort of right go away and then it's get in the bin get in the bin

yeah that's the final one that's the final solution it's getting the bin yeah

it's fuck off actually get in the bin yeah it's before get in the bin. To place this for the dum-dums, in the Nazi Jewish policy, in this stage, Eichmann is quite, is exploring. Was this the penultimate solution, basically? Yes, this is the not yet final solution. They're workshopping the final solution. They're going, where can we send these

people? And Madagascar, South Africa, which would, I mean, I don't know why Madagascar, is it just because it's an island? Why Madagascar? It would change that film quite a lot, was it? There's all these talking elephants and shit. And then there's just millions of European Jews. Yeah, I guess it's just like there's the ones that would be the easiest to do. The Madagascar plan. I guess it's an island as well. So it's kind of, if you really think that Jewish people are a plague, as the Nazis do.

Yeah. There's a plan proposed to forcibly relocate the Jewish population of Europe to the island of Madagascar. Franz Rademacher, head of the Jewish department of the German Foreign Office, proposed the deal in June 1940. The idea of resettling Polish Jews in Madagascar was investigated by the French Third Republic. So it's like an idea, I guess, in the vehemently anti-Semitic early 20th century, just put them all in Madagascar. But then do they also, so when he's checking out Palestine, is he looking at that as an option to move Jewish people there? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, which is something he then claims later on. He's like, well, I came out with this. I actually came up with this idea. I thought he went an ideas, man. Fuck. So, but he's, no, so he's kind of, he's, he's, he's, he's a bank manager, he's a postal clerk, he's a boring loser, listening to Stephen Bartlett, thinking about how can I, you know, do I get up at four? Yeah. What happens if I get up at four?

Can I move even more Jews to, yeah, yeah. So, uh, after the Anschlis, which we're very pro. We are pro-antzlus, as we said. And the rise of the Nazi series, we came out as being, you know, that they did a lot wrong, the Nazis. Many things wrong. One thing we have no problems with was the antelists. Germans and Austrians are basically the same. To us they are.

They are both slightly weird. They eat pork, cabbage. They like, they love tits and putting women in tit forward dresses. Yes, exactly. Drinking pints. Yeah. They like laughing at things that aren't funny. And they eat cabbage.

They're all the same. And why are you guys pretending you're different? Yeah. Just fucking huddle up. We said that if Hitler had just on the anchelus, which is the Austrian journey becoming one country. If he'd stop there. Brilliant.

We wouldn't be talking about him now. No, no. Who cares? Oh, that guy had a good idea. Yeah. Did I tell you that? Because I went to Hamburg on a sort of stag do. Yeah.

And we ended up, we went to, we went, you know, you know, just the boys are on a weekend and it's like there's one, you find one restaurant that's good. You go, let's just go there for every meal. I can't be asked. I can't be asked to fucking find a new place. Let's just go there every meal. So it was like a, you know, it's a, so you stayed in the restaurant the whole time. Basically, if they had beds, we would have just stayed there. But we went there on the second, second day.

And they were like, oh, there's you again. We're like, yeah, yeah, we have no imagination. We just, we just want to drink. We're an iceman. The six out of icemans, we're just like a beer, please. We sat us at a table and then behind, like, these long, you know, beer house tables. Yeah. And then behind us, there was like one of the tables would be turned into kind of like catwalk.

It looked like, oh, that's weird. What's going on? And then a dress rehearsal for the, the Hamburg beer Kernigan. Right. The Hamburg Beer Queen, 2025 began. and like 10 women with paddle boards and numbers just started strolling down this catwalk basically like holding beersteins

and like showing off and all the men like well this was the dress rehearsals they weren't in the dresses right right right right we were like this is fucking great can we get tickets and they're like it's been sold out for 10 months but the thing is that we watched old footage of the other the previous years beer queen festival and their tits are just everywhere

Germans just love a tip I think there's a fascistic thing about mutty milk strength giving the arse is not around you know the bunder that is not well the bundersvair is the parliament isn't it the bunder stack the big batty bunder's the less white

the more it's about the ass so if you're going to be the most pure kind of heinz finin it the tit is very like if you're a racist white person love of a big bunder a big batty gal that's as far away as you can get this is a revelation Tits are fascist?

Are you saying that it's a dog whistle question to ask, are you a tits or an ass man? Yeah, I do think so. Basically saying, are you left or right wing? Well, it's me, it's the kind of like, it's the top room of pub that you're doing secretly. You know, someone's trying to come in. You're a tits are an ass man. Yeah. Come on in.

Come on. Yeah, because I think the Germans aren't, they're not doing. Now they're all ass. Yeah. The Berliners are all ass. Yes. That's all that one. They're trying to overcompensate.

Exactly. Because they know if they got into the tits and ze mada and ze milk. Exactly. To gaily get titten! Yeah, because it's, you know, it's sound of music. It's alpine. It's, uh, lovely. Yeah.

It's all, you know, evoking this kind of like... The Bavarian dresses are just, they're just tits. It's like a shelf of tit. Muti. Muti. That's what, all the Nazis are trying to create this image of this big titted woman with Steins. There's on one end and like twirking and Notty Hall Carnivals at the other end.

Terrifying. Communist stuff. Dirty bottoms. The commies are got. dirty bottoms, Notting Hill Carnival. You would, Adolf Eichmann wouldn't have been seen dead at Notting Hill Carnival. No, he would have seen Notting Hill Carnival going, this is terribly organised. One of these poor people living the streets.

You know, if you'd, because he's like a wind-up toy, if you'd got him to organise Notting Hill Carnival, it probably would have done a great job. If that was his, if he's just trying to organise the timings, he probably would have done a great job. Well, yeah, but then he's like, and then you want to get him on to buses and then the buses are all got to. It's where the train's going. too that's the problem. God, I mean, if he didn't been in charge the Elizabeth line, it would have been done quicker, but the terminus would not have been Heathrow. Put it that way. HS2 may have been done though. Yeah. But again. Once again, it's just like, what, do we need an extension that goes? Hang on, I thought I was going to Birmingham. Ha ha ha! Yeah, no, exactly.

So he's, he's rising up the ranks of the Nazi party in the 30s, and then in 39, he gets promoted to section VIR section VIR 4B4 of the Reich main security office to ISIS So by the time the war starts He's basically

He's the Well whatever Head civil servant He's the logistics guy He is trying to get the Jews To Madagascar or to Palestine He's in you know Hitler's the

He's the ideas man He's Steve Jobs He's saying I want I want this And then he's the poor fucker That's got to put the whole you know that Bill Burbitt about how it's like, oh, well, Steve Jobs that good. Yeah.

It was just shout and then some poor fucker had to actually make the thing. So Hitler's shouting, I want all the Jews to go away. Yeah. And he's the guy that's like putting your entire music library into a phone. Yeah, Steve Wozniak. Yeah, I don't know who that is. He's the other one.

Oh, exactly, right. He's the other one. So there'd be a big trial of Steve Bosnack at some point. Yeah. So early years of the war, he's moving Jews around. Right. But also, he's making a lot of money because often when the Jewish people

are forcibly removed from Germany or Austria they are then forced loads of taxes on them which is often everything they own and he's skimming crazy he's skimming crazy is it a tax if it's everything you own yeah so it's just what are you got let's have that now fuck off

it's the most boring loser mate you have starts getting a bit of power they will commit the worst crimes definitely like if they have too much money yeah right the one has been made fun of the most Exactly. It's exactly that. He was blatantly bullied of fun time, Eichmann. So he gets assigned to organise the deportation of 70 to 80,000 Jews from the Estrava district in Moravia and Catovice, which is in Poland. Poland. So, yeah, they invade Poland in 39. And, you know, Poland just sort of collapses like a pudding. Because they don't have much of an army, really. Yeah.

Yeah, it's true. There's a valiant fight, but... Is there? There is, apparently. Oh, right, okay. There's a very valiant fight, but they've got spears against tanks. They've got spears and horses. The Nazis are on meth in tanks. Out of the right,

no, they're not stopped. Blitzkrieg is that they're up all night. That's what Blitzkrieg is. It's not like technology, it's speed. It's just speed warfare. It's like, it's chem sex, but it's chem, it's chem, it's chem, but it's chem warfare. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's what the Blitzkrieg is, right? They're high on meth and they're storming into Poland, and when they get to Poland, they blow over the four ever six blokes with horses that are drinking cancer Tishki that is their defence force and Eichmann is the guy that they're like right can you sort what the Jews are doing out in Poland

and at some point they start ghettos that becomes the policy Poland in the 1940s bad place to be maybe one of the worst places you could be ever yeah yeah yeah is as bad as it gets anywhere ever pretty much yeah yeah yeah because again

this so in the policy terms the Germans have to the Jews at this point it's it starts as okay but don't don't make any money then it's go over there as soon as they occupy Poland they're basically like right let's get all of them in consolidate everyone in

you'd say quite bad conditions before Eichmann really gets going with trains yeah as a young boy I imagine he's he loves his train set yeah and I think this is this sweet he's probably a train conductor one day in a way he will be but there's a cinematic nature to Eichmann in that kind of like

there's a lot of films follow that narrative though you open with an unexhaordinary man who does something extraordinary Yeah A little boy playing with a train He's woolen shorts The opening to the film he's getting bullied

His teacher saying you won't amount to anything You know it's really setting up It only goes the other way But it does have that narrative A man who found his calling You know Yeah so he's playing with trains As a young boy

And then he you know He's in the Nazi party and these two elements are, they're just there and they haven't joined the dots yet. Then the big thing is the Vanzai Conference, which is in January, January the 20th, 942, this is just sort of suburb of Berlin, just outside, big house, basically all the boys get together.

Hitler has invaded Russia, torn up the Nazi Soviet Pact, which, you know, tacticians probably say that's his undoing, is great evader. Huberous. They're doing meth, so they're like, fuck it, let's just invade Russia. and then they go, it's wintertime. Call the guy again.

I don't feel the cold. I'm literally, I'm pissed. I've got a beer jacket on. They're like, no, it's really cold. It doesn't matter what drugs you're on. It is very cold. It's chilly. It doesn't work.

They get stuck. It's chilly as heck. It's chilly as heck. They get stuck. They've launched these thing called Einzatzkruppen. Now, am I in a WhatsApp thread called Einzatskruppin? Maybe. We'll never know.

We'll never know. I won't be standing trial. I do not see this court on a legitimate. legitimate. I was abducted to be here. This isn't a legitimate trial. The Einzance Gripen were essentially sort of roving death squads where

soldiers would kind of just like, you know, they would just hunt Jews down in the woods and just sort of shoot them and put them in pit. So it was very kind of like, in terms of the extermination of European Jews. It's cowboy-esque. It's cowboy, it's free jazz. There's no...

It's John Coltrane with a big tax phone. This is not the Eichmann. He's the opposite. It's not in charge. Eichmann's brought in to stop the jazz. Yeah. And start the classical music. Right. So Ainsatz Gripen are, they're sort of terrifying death squads just roving.

They're from the SS. The forests of Poland. The forest of Poland and into Ukraine and stuff. And a lot of Jews die this way, but you don't think of it. No. I don't know about this. Formalized, industrialized slaughter. But they're still doing old school.

Yeah. I mean, they were just like, yeah, they were just hunting people down. They were still playing homage to the classics. Yeah. There was an analog. get element to the murder as well, the Einzance Gripen. And so in 42, January 42

the Einstein's Grippen's been going since they invaded. When do they invade Russia? It's in 41. It must be in the summer because they think they're going to do it. Yeah. They do it in June 41 because they think they're going to smash it. Yeah. And then it turns out Russia's very big and they're absolutely

cooked. Yeah. So they go, fuck, it's wintertime. We're freezing. We fuck this. Which we'll do an episode on. Which will do. I mean, we'll do operations. We'll do Barbarossa. We'll do episodes on all of this. Just Starlingrad's one of a number one for me. The podcast will end when we have talked about every possible thing that happened in World War II. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in 42, January, the Van Zay conference, which is where all the, all the big Nazi boys get

together in a big house and they're like, this is where the new policy is. It's not Madagascar. Is he? Here. Ithman's taken the minutes. Is he? Yeah. All the big boys are there. Himmler, Gerling. Hurler. It's been changed to Hurler now. Urstery, Himmler, him slash, he slash, he slash Himmler. Those are my pronouns. He slash Himmler. He Himmler.

Heil Hitler. That's his pronouns. He Himla, Heil Hitler. He slash Hitler. Heil slash Hitler. I'm signing off my emails, Heil slash Hitler. That was the problem with it. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Like we're still doing Heil Hitler, but it's like, he slash Hitler. Well, if the Nazis were, if they'd won, and there was still this kind of woke era that we're living through now, that happened there. They would be like, it's actually high or slash it, look. Wendy's most important deal of the day has a fresh lineup. Pick any two breakfast items for $4. New four-piece French toast sticks, bacon or sausage wrap, biscuit or English muffin sandwiches, small hot coffee and more. Limited time only at participating Wendy's taxes extra.

Gravanzai conference is where they decide to move from the kind of quite, let's say, a... Tame. It's all bad. I don't need to caveat that. This is all bad. I think this is all bad.

Yeah. But it's a story... This is rubbish. This is rubbish behaviour. It's poor form. It's not cricket. It's not on. It's not on.

They're naughty boys, but they're called the naughty party. Yeah. Nazi is German for naughty, as we know. So what they do at Van Zay is they basically, they move to, they go, this is where they introduce the term final solution. They go, none of this Madagascar shit,

None of this free jazz modal shit on the eastern front We are going to build camps We're going to get them We're going to industrialize the slaughter I want Amazon Prime Holocaust I want it done right And I imagine in my head The Vanzai conference is like

You know you know when they launched Microsoft launched Windows 95 And then you've seen that video Yeah It's that isn't it? I imagine it's that So that's finally so that's that's that's that's high that's iFin there yeah these are the nazi boys yeah there's

him 42 that's bill gates there's hitler there's dancing the stones are playing guys we've got it this is the future welcome to the future this is vansay this is what we're going to do so so this is where they decide now you're sure this is the final solution this is the final final final last time is this definitely So I have to rename everything because last time we said the final solution and now this is, I'll be sure. Final final.

Final, final, final finished solution. In the bin. It was like when I was doing like an editor of specials and stuff, it was always like final draft. Actual final. Second, seriously final draft. Really final. No more solutions after this.

And this is where Himmler, who's the main, he's the main guy that's like, he's Hitler's mouthpiece, is Hitler's puppet. Himmler is going right. We want to exterminate the Jews. We want to move from emigrant. and ghettoization

to full-on extermination so Eichmann basically is hearing this and they go right who's the loser guy the guy taking the minutes you, you do it sort it out

I don't care how you do it right fucking do it so Eichmann's the one that's like okay if this is going to happen we're going to need trains we're going to need railways

yeah Rudolph Hess is there so Altswitz is already a thing yeah but it's not fully like Zyclon B chambers yet from 42 until late 44, this is when the train start coming. And Eichmann is the train guy.

He's France's bourgeois. Yeah. Wow! He's filling cattle cars with the Jews that... So he's in charge of Jewish affairs in all the occupied territories. Yes. He's learned Hebrew, by the way. He's studied Judaism.

Yeah. He's really got into it. He's done his research. Yeah. Because, and we'll get into hungry later, but what he... There's a... I listen to a thing where at one point he walks into the Budapest ghetto where all the Jews have been gathered, and he goes, do not worry, Jews.

You have nothing to fear, but he just, he launches by saying them, hello, Jews, nothing to worry about here. It's like, if I was referred to as my race on mass, saying nothing to worry about, I probably have suspicions. Yeah, and it's just the cartoonish. It's so cartoonish. You have nothing to worry about. I mean, that's why people are obsessed to Nazis,

is they are just the archetype of cartoonish evil and villainy. Hello, Jules. Nothing to fear here. Who likes trains? Daddy likes trains. We're going on a little train ride. Right. You'll see.

You'll all see. Ha, ha, ha. Right. So Eichmann then is basically tasked with, like, how the fuck do we implement this insane crackpot scheme? So basically, he's the one that implements the train schedule, the quotas, the routes. he's scheduling this is all Eichmann he's the operational face of the Holocaust

right he's planning the tour he's planning the tour he's the promoter he's the tour manager he's the as this time line says the cold bureaucrat of genocide he's the he's the you know

he's the implementation of the whole thing so but also he's going on inspections of all the occupied territories all the ghettos all the camps and all these places he's got mistresses in every oh right he's got hose in different areas

Coats. They've all got big tits. They've all got Steins of beer. Mama! He's also, now he's married to someone called Vera, who gets his important later.

And he has, at this point, I think his son, he has a son born in 1942. Here you go. So Klaus is born in 36, Horst Adolf,

born in 1940. And Dieter's born in 42. And, yeah, Ricardo's born in 55. We'll get to that. Yeah. So,

he has, he has three, German sons. I mean, he's the modelarian. Yep. But he's got mistresses in all these areas. And again, it's that thing of you saying about how the losers becoming powerful.

He's suddenly drunk on the power. You know, he, whenever he goes to Occupy Territory, he gets in the fucking castle, he gets the hat on. He gets the cellars open all the wine bottles. He's drinking it. He's fucking over. You know, he's got mistress there.

And again, just I'm putting a pin in this because it's undoing later on. So, we should get to Hungary, though. So basically, he's been very careful, actually in trying to be this sort of shadowy figure of like I'm just a civil servant he's aware how bad

this is much as he protests he knows this is boo boo and he's so yeah and he's so focused on the entire eradication of the Jewish yeah oh no I'm not I'm not saying he's not

I'm just saying that he's crazy to say he's not he's not done this by accident this is a very deliberate organized slaughter of people but what I'm saying saying is that he's very clever and calculating in that he's making

sure he's not front and center, he's not the poster boy for all this stuff. Because the war is turning against Germany. Yeah, so 43, the Allies invade Italy. It doesn't really, they do There's not a huge amount of options out for Germans if you're smart. You can see that it's turning.

But the Eastern Front is completely collapsing. They've been pretty much defeated by the Mediterranean by the end of 43, start of 44. The Americans are in the war. They know an invasion's coming. Operation Overlord is going to happen. They invade Hungary, the Germans, and I think it's in March, 44.

Surprisingly late. Yeah, it was because they know the Soviets are coming and they're trying to... Yeah, I don't know how Hungary avoided this for so long. Well, they're part of the Soviet Union, and Hungary's down, and they've been going up to try to... Hitler wanted to get to Moscow, so he went through Ukraine in the summer,

and then got into Russia when the winter hit, and he got fucked. I think the Hungarian government has just been... We're just chucking their Jews at the Nazis for ages. think they actually invited the Nazis in. Yeah. Oh, you want to clean that? Oh, yeah, there's loads.

There's loads here. So, yeah. Poor form for the Hungarians during the war. Eichmann goes fucking ape shit in Hungary. He's like, this is where he goes. And when you say ape shit. Eichmann goes fucking ape shit. Yeah, Abacus is out.

Yeah. He's just, yeah, he's doing, yeah. Okay, it's not very cinematic this bit. Him going apeshit is not. It's just more spreadsheets, but what he does in Hungary, is that bear in mind I think there are a total of maybe

three quarters of a million registered Jews is that the term registered registered sounds bad it sounded it sounds like you're putting on the same level of sex offenders

for some reason I'm not doing that I'm using the language They have to tell everyone they probably did have to tell everyone in their neighbourhood that they using the language of the time

they had about quick one of the registered due list yeah but yeah in Nazi occupied Europe you probably did have to go on a register

yeah Anyway, so there's three quarter of a million Hungarian Jews and Eichmann basically wants to get rid of them all in like double quick time. So what he does in Hungary, which I guess you can only do with the acquiescence of the Hungarian authorities. His football career is this as prime years?

Is the him at his best? Yeah, this is Zadan, 9802. Right, right, right, right. So this is him, yeah, flow state. Ballandor, yeah, this is exactly what it is, as a flow state, and more ways than one. So he starts, he moves into Hungary and he's in like the open top.

car with the leather gloves. Like at this point he's really drunk on power. Yeah, in the film this is a montage. It's a, like he's storming in. You see the numbers going, oh, or down, probably. Ah! The numbers are going up. Ikeman's like, ding!

And it's like, and it's like, do. It's the good bit. It's the good montage in Wolf of Wall Street. It's all going well. You know, there's money for, flying everywhere so but he's he's really drunk on power now and he basically in hungry he lets his guard down and is sort of he starts he goes to the trains himself he goes to the ghettos hello

jews yeah right right he um he gets in a castle in budapest he's pissed he has a mistress more mistresses right um and he in in the space of like months he basically so he goes to meet rudolph hess the commandant of auschwitz who's the character in uh zone of interest who's played by the same actor as the weak German security Rudolf Hearst. Does he make a zone of interest? He's the guy,

he's zone of interest. He's the commandant in Auschwitz who's played by the same actor as the guy in White Lotus who's the German hotel manager. Oh my God. Yeah, and no one realizes it and it's so funny.

Oh my God, it is him. It's the same guy. And it's like you couldn't have two more polar roles than the fucking commandant of Auschwitz. old Germans versus new Germans, isn't it? Totally. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Oh, hello, no. Don't find it. Whatever you want.

Oh, no. I couldn't possibly sing. I have... Yeah. Anyway, so, uh, he goes to Hess and he goes, listen, we've taken over Hungary. There's loads of them in here. Yeah. Are you ready for me to up the trains quite a lot? Yeah. And Rudolph's like, yeah, mate, whatever. Yeah. I don't know what he says. Yeah.

At one point, I did go over my audio book, uh, listening amount on Spotify. So, throw us some gaps in by. gaps in my information you've got a list to it at double speed I wasn't I wasn't I was into double big yeah it's very weird it's been a very weird week so he Eichmann is always he's talking to Hearst

all the time and he's like I've got I've just made it hungry like let's we're going to up it because at this point everyone knows the war is turning or the Nazi high command in sort of spring 44 they know that it's on the down so and this is where Himmler tells Eichmann

listen stop sending Hungarian Jews to the death camps because we need to keep these Jews as bargaining chips with the allies

This is the big This is the big thing for Eichmann This is when he finally breaks script Eichmann goes Fuck that I love trains I will not

I will not be told To stop my trains Well you think Because of bargaining chips I guess If you're bargaining chips It's more like We need to start

clearing this mess up My wife's come in. Adolf, the party's over. The wife's just fucking started that. It's 6 a.m. And Adolf's like, nah,

no, no, no. We're just getting. We're still going. And it kind of... I'm getting a boat. Almost, yeah. So of all the terrible things Eichmann does, the worst crime he does probably is when he kills so many Jews when the war's already gone.

And his commanders are telling him to stop. Well, that's it. His defense of... So many Jews died who... It wasn't even against orders. I mean, it was... You'd say, Unfortunately, if there are six million Jews that die in the Holocaust,

he personally logistically organizes 400,000 to go to Auschwitz in like a few months and 44 against the orders of Himmler. Right. So if he's saying I'm following orders and then he doesn't follow orders to still kill Jews. It's quite extraordinary, yeah. He's also going into the ghettos of Hungarian Jews and speaking to them. And it's like, so his face is, finally his face is around because he's drunk on power. Yeah. He refused to stop deportations.

There's a whole thing about Jews. Jewish leaders in the Hungarian ghetto, in the Budapest ghetto, they're trying to organize a deal with the Allies, or no, they're trying to organize a deal with, can you spare a million Jewish lives in exchange for 10,000 trucks? So to give the Wehrmacht 10,000 trucks and to have the Allies just take the Jews out. So that's what Himla's trying to broker. There's this deal with the Jewish resistance in the Budapest ghetto and Himmler and potentially with the allies. But do the Allies have any idea what's happening to the Jews? Or they don't know the details of what's going on.

They don't know how bad it is. They know it's bad. Right. I mean, there's definitely... So, well, they didn't know too much about... I don't know. That's kind of quite contested. There's a lot of...

There's aerial photographs of Auschwitz as early as 1941 that the American supply points have. Right. They don't really know about the ovens and stuff and like the gassing, I don't think. But there are people who are escaping Alchrist all the time and telling the Americans to the Brits.

Right. I guess the one thing you couldn't even imagine the scale. But Himmler basically says, I think it's here, sorry, Heimler, not Heimler, Eichmann says to the Jewish leader, yeah, we'll do that, and then basically just doesn't do it and try to take the trucks. So on December 44, Eichmann flees Budapest just before the Soviets, oh, that's it. The Soviets encircle Budapest. And if there's one thing you don't want to be, is a Nazi in a Soviet occupied. Yeah.

They're not sparing any prisoners. No. They're pretty pissed off. Yeah. And this is Poland in the 1940s. Yeah, it's pretty rough Because you've had the Nazis roll through Worst things ever happened

And the soviants have rolled through You're a bunch of tit bros Encircled by Bundaheads The Bunda boys are here And they want to take out All the tit guys Yeah, yeah, yeah So Christmas Eve 944

Eichmann flees Budapest Having done Christmas Eve Yeah, yeah A lot of damage He's got flutters He's like I wonder what I'm going to get for Christmas Well this guy works

Right up until Christmas Day Right right right He's taking Christmas Day off But he's annoyed about it Yeah But he's laid his stocking out. And he's like, I hope I get talking nice. More model trades.

He goes back to Berlin, just as the Soviets and Circle Budapest. And he goes to his department, 4B4, and he goes, burn everything. You know what we've been doing with the Jews? Same thing with these papers. Just fucking get rid of it. Get on the trains and get them to the camps. Just burn them.

But what's fascinating about the end of the war here is that there's like five months where all the SS you know they know it's over the Allies have landed at Normandy and they're working their way through the Ardennes Battle of the Bulge that's all happening at the end of the 44

like so they're just it's kind of like well I was just gonna fuck off then and like obviously the Uber loyalists are staying with Hitler in a bunker to the end but Eichmann just sort of like bobs around Austria South Germany he keeps moving

He keeps moving And there's loads of like processing camps That he goes through but yeah we'll get to that But basically, the war is ending and Eichmann has burned all his files in Berlin and he gets to Austria, you know, where he's got family. I think his parents live in Linz in Austria. He realizes he's actually quite a bad guy.

They've lost. Yeah. And he's probably going to, they're going to want to ask him some questions at the very least. He doesn't realize he's a bad guy. He realizes he's in a lot of trouble. Yes, sorry. It's slightly different. He's in a lot of trouble

He's been a very naughty boy And there's going to be some people along Quite soon to ask him some questions So what he does is he changes his name To Otto Ekman And he gets captured by American forces In May 1945 And what we'll do

Is we'll leave this episode here In our next episode We will talk about his escape And then we'll then get to Through the rat line And we'll then get to his thrilling capture and trial. It's just an amazing story.

Now, all those episodes, I'm going to say it now, four, all four of these episodes, they're already on the Patreon. Four parter. Two weeks of Ikeman, you lucky pigs. They're all on the Patreon now. Three pounds a month, you can subscribe, and you get the Rise of the Nazi series.

Everything's ad-free. You get a bonus episode every Friday. If you haven't listed the Rise of Nazis and you're on the Patreon, I listen now, it's a good set up. Get into it. I think this bonus we'll do this week will be about Hitler escaping to Brazil

Much like it's, you know, the weather's getting better You know when like the ashes is on You have the radio blasting in the garden Sorry, just the ashes given what we're talking about It's a bit of... Sorry But you've got the cricket blasting in the radio out in the garden This is how I want you to listen to this Nazi series

Oh, yeah, with the sun on your face All the neighbours can hear it It's blasting out the radio Just super loud I've got a DM from someone saying They were listening to the Richard the third episode as they had the window down and they pull up to the car beside them

also at the window down and they just heard you go beautiful young boys this is probably a series to listen with the windows up I reckon that's all on the Patreon either way

we'll see you next time for what Eichmann does when he realizes the party's over he's just getting started I'll fit us in see you next time I don't know.