Fin vs History - Natural Born Killers Who Kiss Their Mum On The Mouth | The Mafia (Part 1)

Episode Date: December 8, 2025

The Mafia (Part 1) | Natural Born Killers Who Kiss Their Mum On The Mouth What was it about 19th Century Sicily that allowed greasy mummies’ boys to form the most notorious organised crime syndicate in history? Tickets for Fin's 2026 Stand-Up Tour now onsale at fintaylorcomedy.komi.io The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened. For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon patreon.com/fintaylor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome back to Finn versus history. Beside me is Horatio Gould. As long as I can remember, I wanted to be a podcast. And today we're talking about the mafia. Um, we are in Sicily. We are in Italy's bin. Yes. In the bin of the bin. The bin of the bin.

And I'm a big fan of Italy. Yes. Because it is the, it is so, so racist. So horny. That it is imploded on itself and is racist against his own people. Interesting. Oh, you mean the north-south divide? Yeah. So like northern Italians. And it's upside downland, right?

Where the north, the north are the educated. civilized folk for us yes exactly the south barbarians and then sicily i guess is like the isle of white yes yeah in that the northern italians they or is it scotland well this is what's amazing about it is that northern italians think that southern italians are a different race yes and then the southern italians think that sicilians are essentially african and the sicilians i mean they're they're the most races to africans of anyone probably exactly yeah so it's an astonishing it's a brilliant this whole time period, we're in the sort of 19th century towards the war,

the Second World War. It's my favourite period. It's got everything the story. Phrenology, fascism, those are the two things, really, that I care about. And Sicily is, have you ever been to Sicily? I've never been to Sicily. I've never been, but it sounds like, 19th century Sicily

sounds pretty toilety. It's too Italian for the Italians? Yes. Yeah. Already Italian people are going like, well, that's too fucking Italian. Yeah, that is like Italian ground zero in that it's, you know, no one's taking... It's the placenta mother of Italians. Yeah.

It's from all... Everything is taken from that. But it's a 14-year-old girl. It's a teenage mum's placenta. Right, right. But it's, you know, the ground zero of not taking responsibility for your actions. Right. Of shrugging, of ignoring driving laws.

Of living with your mum to your 37 years old. Kissing your mum on the mouth. What are the boys, they're called memones. I think they're called, Memon. You know, it's like a term for... Because Italian men stay at home the longest of any country. Mama, yeah. And they're called Mammaunas.

Right. Mommies, mum's boys. Basically. Right. And so, like, it's just a very natural thing that you won't leave. No, you're mama. You won't leave your mum's house until you have a house to buy. So that can be like 37, 38 years old. Oh, your mum dies and then you live in the house.

That's it, isn't it? Yeah, I guess so. I guess. No, because our... What's amazing is, Ramone, there's a bit of, like, a romance to it. Well, no, but our listeners are fuck you, mum, Momones. Fuck you, Momone. Fuck you, Momone.

Yeah, but Mamone can be still fuck you, Mammonet. No, because these mummies boys are kids. and their mum's in the mouth. Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. And then they're sexually harassing girls that could never be good enough to replace their mother.

Right, yeah. So they're saying, fuck you, you're not my mum. Yeah, so the only woman that they treat with any respect is their mom. Yes. Everyone else is harassment.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, I guess the listeners are fuck you, my mom. Fuck off, my mom, nez. No, they're the opposite. Our listeners are saying, fuck you, mum, and then fuck you to other women.

Yeah. Because you remind me of my mom, who I hate. So it's a very different thing. Yes. Yeah, their mom. They're mama's boys. The most flagrantly horny people

maybe in the world, the Italians? Definitely, definitely. And it's such a young country. It's what I sort of forget. Found a friend moved out to Italy like 20 years ago. She's lived there. Apparently a guy,

an old man pinched her bum and then she ran home. You've said this before. And she was just, he just held on. Yeah, and he was clamped all the way. And he was just bent down the whole time. And then she had to shut the door on his hand.

Yeah, because if you're in this country and you leave a car in the wrong place, it'll get clamped. Right. In Italy, If you're a woman, leave an arson wrong place. And then you'll have to... Yeah, you have to have a parking, you know.

You have to buy the parking to have an ass. Exactly. In Naples. But we're not in Naples. We are in Sicily. Yeah. Now, in 1812, Sicily was conquered by the Brits, I believe. And it's hard to remember is that Italy, we always...

You forget how newer country Italy is, right? So new. It feels like it's because of the Romans, because of the Renaissance. Italy in our understanding has been a... consistent thing. It's hard to imagine the fact that it was a collection of kingdoms. But it's still a stupid, it's a stupid country in many ways. Right. It's barely was 180 years old, something like that, no less than that, 150 years old. You know, mother Italy. It was brought together by a biscuit, right? Garibaldi. Yeah. I did that at A level history. Did Garibaldi.

Did you? Unification of Italy. Yeah. The disorogemento. Right. The original organization. The 1812, Sicily was conquered by the Brits as part of the Napoleonic Wars. And when the Brits came in, they abolished feudalism and then just left. And from that sewer, the mafia grows. Right. Yes. And there's also Sicily, because it was all fragment kingdoms, it wasn't one unified Italy. Sicily was disconnected from the Renaissance. Yeah, it was disconnected from the Reformation in Northern Europe. Yeah. So it did just sort of, it just skipped a lot of what was happening in Europe. And it would constantly be like conquered by various Mediterranean, you know, the Arabs, it's got a lot of Arab influence. They have these

big things in Sicily, these kind of like porcelain Arab heads. Like in the shops are big Arab heads. Fatest Italian woman ever. My word. That's a lot of pasta. That is, she's got some big old prosciutto hams there on the legs. I mean, if you're going to be fat anywhere, Italy probably is the best place to be fat. I mean, if you're going to stuff your face. It's great weather to stuff your face, great food. This is a terracina. And she's the fattest woman in the world born in Italy. 265 kilos. Colossus obese. I mean, yeah, is that is it really the greatest place for carbs in the world? Yes, it has to be. It's carb ground zero. But I think of a kind of overweight

Italian lady is maybe like the most beautiful woman who could be overweight. Like a fat Italian lady, you just give her mozzarella and you like there's like a because there's like a bell of yeah. It's just something sweet about it like just it's just tomatoy. It's lovely, there's like salami, she's La Dolce Vita, the beautiful life. Milk, it's milk central. Well, it's mozzarella is the fattest thing you can eat. It's in when we had to fatten our daughter up

and I mean that in the medical sense, she's underweight that we would prescribe mozzarella. Really? Yeah, that is, so a pizza is the worst thing for weight you can eat because it's bread and mozzarella. But, Sicilians or sardinians are the longest living people in the world up there. So it's something, what I don't understand

is how the Mediterranean diet is seen. it's the healthiest diet. But whenever we seem to eat it, become fat as fuck. Yeah, because we're having like deep fried fucking like chocolate whereas they're having like lovely like cows milk. It's olive. It's olive oil.

Proper ingredients. It's fish as well. It's fish and mates. Yeah. Fish and mates. Yeah. Fish and mates is what makes you live long. Yeah,

for a lot. Whereas we have chips and we're lonely. Yeah, we have chips and wank. That's what we do. We eat chips and we wank and we die early. These guys, they're eating lemons. Amazing lemons, tomatoes. Big families.

Fish. honking on arces. Honking on arces. Maybe that's what keeps you... Kissing mummy on the mouth. Maybe that's what... Yeah, maybe the secret is. Kissing your mum on the mouth.

I mean, if it makes you live longer. It's a bit Catholic. I don't love it. I mean, maybe there should be a study into just honking a random woman's ass maybe fills you with... Who is brave enough to do that study? In the ad breaks and six music,

were you here? A landmark study has found that honking, gooseing women leads to longevity. God, the chaos that would ensue after that. Yeah, Italy is such a strange country. It's only a hundred and... 60, 70 years old or something. And yet the north, it's so

like racist on itself. The worst swear word you can say in Italy is porco dio, which generally our Italian listeners will have turned off. Now that's how bad it is. And it translates as God as a pig. Right. What's your slagging God off?

You're saying God's a pig. And they have a gradation of swearing. They're being racist to God. Yeah, they have a gradation of swearing that's all pig based. Can you get this list up, Charlie? Right. So this is It's quite Mediterranean

Middle Eastern as well Like you're a motherfucker god Yeah you're a motherfucker pig here We don't really have that in our But quite a lot of the world Has like goat fucker pig fuckers Like a huge part of the So this is like

Whereas ours is you're a paedophile That's like all kind of God is a paedophile Would be the worst thing you can say Ours is just calling someone A bacon bunt Yeah So this is a list of swears in Italian

They're all linked to pigs Right So porca miseria Pig misery. Pig misery. It's sort of the same and saying like for God's sake. Damn it.

Right. So self-pitying Italian. So if you honk a woman's ass and she slaps your hand, you go, oh, poor, pig misery. Of course it happens to me. Porka misery. I am a simple man just squeezing on the asshole. Yeah. Then you have sort of mild moderate, kind of like dam, which would be porkavaka, pig cow.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. And then you, porca putana is pig whore, which is like, fuck. Pig whore. Pig whore. So this is when you cat call a woman and she puts a little finger

and you call her a pig horn. Porko Mondo, pig worlds. Right, it's a bit of nihilism. This pig world where I cannot squeeze it the earth. So, yeah, our Italian fans would be in the basement going, oh, pig, this is just a pig world. Yeah, they think they're like Travis Bickle.

Yeah. Porka paleta, pig shovel. That's kind of, you'd say that in front of a kid, pig spade. Okay. So you play for it. And then pork, pork, pork canny, pig dog. Pig dog.

I think Charlie's a pig dog. Yeah, you are a pig dog. And then this is a more humorous one. Right. Sort of like someone calling someone gay. Like, this is more like Italian null fielding, right? Yeah, he would say, um, porka trot. It's a bit like, oh, what's going on there?

A pig trout. What was that look like? And then Porca misalachia, big pig misery, for heaven's sake. Big pig misery. Um, and then you get to Porcodillo, which is so, um, so strong. because they have a thing called bestemia which is not beastiality it's blasphemy

but about pigs pig blasphemy and this would get you if you're at like a football ground in Italy being racist at the players if you say pork or dio everyone would stop

look at you and say get out people would stop throwing the banana peel at their black centre back and be like we need some decency here can you fucking rein it in we live in a society

chill out mate go back to your monkey chance yeah and have some decorum Have some decorum, please. Pass a banana and wash your mouth out. It's a crazy country. The worst thing you could say is call God a pig,

and yet, oh, we're handing out banana skins to try with the black players, Alatio. It's fucking crazy. It's like a baseball game handing out hot nuts. They have a t-shirt canon. Banana skin canon in between at half time. Hey, please. It's not a bit of fun.

God is not a pig. No. God is not a pig. God is not a pig. So it's a crazy country, but Sicily Sicily is the kind of, it's always been a kind of uncomfortable neighbor of the Italians.

Do you think the English have, there's a, there seems to be an interesting relationship to in England and Italy. I mean, there's a real romanticisation of Italy with English, because I think it represents a lot of our repressed values. Do you know what I mean? I think like, I think, because we're such a repressed country,

unlike Finland, Germany, who aren't repressed, they're just like that. Yeah. Whereas I think inside, we feel like Italian stuck in German's bodies. So I think the reason why we love going a holiday in Italy, the reason why Shakespeare sets when he plays in Italy, fucking Byron going over there,

Horatio Nelson going over there. We have this sort of like very romantic idea of it because it's like it's the opposite of what it's like living here. Well, it's middle class Spain, isn't it? Yeah. In that some people go to Spain to throw plastic chairs in the sea and then people who are more educated go to Italy. Just the approach to sex.

whole thing. It feels like a... Yes. It's a real holiday from your mind, I guess. Yes, it is. No, you're right. Ho, ho, ho, ho, truthas. Ho, slacks. I'm just hopping on to tell you about my Christmas crackers this year. Unbelievable.

Make Christmas even more uncomfortable. If you think Christmas cracker jokes are weak, which I do, then... Make your nan blush, make your granddad come. Grandad will love them. These are for the dads. Crackers for the dads. Now, these are some of the jokes we had in past years. Have you heard the one about Helen Keller?

Neither has she. knowing her she was probably too busy fingering herself silly I guess if you're deaf dumb and blind how else are you meant to pass the time funniest word in that joke is probably yeah probably knowing her

knowing hers my favourite bit put a bit of disguise on it no they need to know what they're buying we've done this the last two years and they sold out so quickly this year we've actually made the packaging ourselves lovely this is my wife has quit her job

to make this a brand so she's look at look she's poured her heart and soul into this. You need to buy these to save my marriage. Yeah. They're spicy jokes, guaranteed to make your namblush. This is as spicy as white men get. This is the white spice. And a parlor game and an exclusive

Christmas video message. Never mind the King's speech. What about the furors? Yeah. If you order now, they will guarantee arrive, they were guaranteed arrived by Christmas. Hit the link here and be quick and please buy some because as I have said, my marriage is dependent on it.

Another year in the basement, me love. If she just doesn't sell well, genuinely she's going to get her old job back and I'm going to have to do more childcare. You don't want to see that kid to they're 18. I don't want to see him. I've been shaking their hand for six months since it's been glorious and I don't want to have to get back in the actual mucky business. No, you're an officer.

You're not a soldier in the trenches. Please. Please let me stay. You're pushing men to their death. I'm pushing babies to the toilet. You go there. You go there. I'm not going to change a napi. I run a business. Well, that... Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas.

It's bought some crackers. So feudalism abolished in 1812, land is redistributed, and into this vacuum step the Gabelotti. And the problem is as well, I think because of the dominance of Italian cuisine globally, it does mean that a lot of Italian words don't sound scary. They sound like a pasta. And this will be a problem throughout the series. Yes. A lot of people will meet, a lot of characters. Don Bolognese.

It's like, it's hard. He's a terrifying guy who will like blow your kneecaps out. but he's called fucking rigatoni. Yeah, exactly. The most terrifying man who ever lived, John Marguerita. John cheesy pizza.

Not Tony Mozzarelle. Yeah. So, not John Bruchetta, please. Save me from the dais tomatoes on the chibata. I actually,

when I did, I had to do a best man's speech at an Italian wedding. Right. I didn't, as you probably guess, I don't really know Italian, but it doesn't stop me

from having a go to it. Of course. You're a have a go guy. You're a good in English. This is in North Italy, by the way. So they see themselves as Aryan. They see themselves as German, Austrian.

Right. They think anyone below Rome is like a barbarian. Rome's the middle belt. Yeah. But then North Italy say we're Italian. South of that, they go, I don't know who those people are. And there's some very funny phrenology, which we'll get into the 19th century. But I, so I was in northern Italy and I basically said, I knew that Putin, Putin is like a whore.

Not Putanesca. Which is a fish pasta. So I said, I said, when my friend, who I was best, Manifo, I said when he met his wife, my first thought was, ki this putanesca, which is like, who is this fish pastor? I thought it was like a funny pun. Right. But it turns out that fish pastor is named that because haws used to eat it.

And in Italian, it's called whores pasta. So I called her, who is whores. Who's his plate of whores pastor? So who? The bro. Yeah. In front of the entire, in front of the entire wedding. Is that why it's called puta?

Yeah. Damn. So it's Pugineska is because that's what they used to serve in the brothels for the horse. Is it seen as a bad dish? It's called horse pasta. Now it's quite a middle-class dish, isn't it?

I guess it's like us calling Spag bowl prosy pasta. Yeah. It's not far off. Brass. Spack brass. Spack brass.

Gets a bowl of spag brass, would you? But I don't think British prostitutes eat Spag bowl. No. Why not? I just, I imagine they're just having

pork pies. Port pie, Scott Jakes and sausage and chips. They're having a full English. They're having Monster Munch, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Monster Munch. Derry Lee Dunkers. Yeah, it's lunchboxes. Anyway, so the Gabilotti, which is not a pasta source, they are local entrepreneurs, and they lease estates from landlords and manage them using private armed guards.

So in the early 19th century, you already have this system of kind of corrupt. It's quite a lawless place. Yeah. But yeah, basically the old medieval system had been destroyed with nothing to replace it. Yeah. And so Italy is unified in 18. Garibaldi, a biscuit manufacturer.

He bounces about Italy. And because it's been this, it's been, you know, at this point, you've got the Renaissance, you've got all these city states, provinces. And he realizes we all, we all are as problematic to women as each other. We all kiss our mother on the mouth. We should all do it under a tricolour flag. Yeah, come on. We all, we all want to go down on our non-a.

Let's put this under one flag. Let's put our differences aside. Yeah. We've got more in common than divides us. It's Italian Hitler. Yeah, basically. So, Garibaldi marches through Sicily, and even they are like, fuck me, it's a fucking desert out there.

They don't know what's going on. Sicilians don't trust the new laws or the new government, so they turn to these local power brokers who could guarantee protection. So the mafia is essentially a kind of, it's a sort of proxy state in a country where there isn't one.

Well, yeah, I think throughout this series, we do also want to talk about what is the mystique of the mafia. Why is it so prevalent in film and TV, wise it makes such good dramas and i do think a huge part of it is the feeling of taking justice into your own hands yeah there's a huge part of like you watch it and it sort of fires you up because it feels like you're sort of the romanticization right is that you you you take control of your own life you set your own rules and you're not going to be you're not going to be

beholden to any sort of state it's also essentially it's like a violent local council yeah so the equivalent is like Jackie weaver but if jackie weaver had like a fucked up code of ethics. Yes. Like family is everything, but I'm also going to kill those of innocent people. I'm just going to,

you know, you don't have the authority here, commandant. I'm just going to kill you. So, Kosa Nostra is the name of the mafia, which means our thing. It's our thing.

Again, this is our thing. Italian really does, it adds so much romance to pretty boring terms. And this, they call themselves men of honor. Women can't be honorable

because they're fallen creatures. Right. Well, they get, you know, stop clock. Eve ate the apple. She's doomed. to sin

but they can be loyal to the honourable men they can shut up and be loyal right so they can only do loyalty they can't do honour they can cook

so the honourable men can eat that's what yeah yeah anyway that's what they're saying that's what they're saying that's also

what we happen to think but that's irrelevant that's irrelevant look I'm trying not to put my own views into this podcast but there's a lot going for them essentially the mafia

run protection rackets but they also arbitrate disputes they oversee illegal agreement transactions what they're very good at is killing people not getting caught that's basically the skill that they have the mafia but there's also no one catching them right

because it's Sicily but it's lawless yeah there's no state really so they kind of grow they become the state and it's a lot of different sort of tribes rural things at this point but we should probably talk about the initiation ceremony

to give it mystique the hazing ritual sort of yeah so they don't have any kind of application but it's not like a rugby Soggy Biscotti Not soggy Biscotti No, they're not playing soggy

Biscotti Which is actually probably top tier Soggy Biscuit level Yeah, that's a very dry Very, very hard biscuit You need the whole team involved In that one. Italian sailors.

Lads, I'm gonna need, we need more men We need the whole rugby team Come on, and the subs And the coaching staff Get Clive Woodward in here It's got almonds in it How are we going to penetrate The almonds with cum?

Yeah, we need Clive in, he shoots ropes. Woodward's shooting. ropes for a Biscopsy. That's got to take, like the erosion needed. Yeah. Yeah. You know that exos at the gym where you've got the two ropes.

That's Clyde Woodward. Fucking. So the Mafia's initiation ceremony, they are deliberately bizarre and specific and sort of painful. Ooh.

So early 19th century police reports show this initiation. A guy called Buscetta, not brichetta. John Tomato's on Post It just doesn't sound the same in it. Old Johnny Tomato Toast Giovanni Bruchetta

He's initiated in the 1970s He describes a ceremony that it was the same From you know taking all the way back So they all gather in a room He gets questioned His finger gets pricked The blood is smeared onto an image Of the Virgin Mary

The one version that's allowed to be in Italy And the saint's image is then placed In his cupped hands and set on fire By the Mafia boss and then the mafia boss tell him if you betray Casa Nostra your flesh will burn like this saint.

She is not a pig. Do not call this saint a pig or I put you in the bin. So this initiates and swears sort of lifelong loyalty and the key rules to Kosoostra are

a man of honour never lies to another made man. Yes. And a made man is when you're like officially confirmed to someone who cannot be killed by the mafia.

Which I guess like the most popular imagining of the Maid Man is Goodfellas, Joe Pappi being a maid man. Which we'll be dealing with on the patron. There's Omerta, which is the, you don't talk, don't talk to anybody. You don't talk to police. You don't rat.

And then you obey the Capo, who is the head of the family. It's all about the fucking family. So the Brotherhood of Favada, again, sounds like it's a beanie dish. Yeah. They can proto-mafia in the 1880s. A guy is forced to choose

between killing his nephew or killing himself so because his nephew had done something to talk to someone and so he chooses to kill the nephew and then he hangs himself which I feel he probably just said kill me

yeah it worked out bad both him and the nephew's got to know yeah he's got to learn yeah honour as it says here is an exclusively male quality initiation is exclusively male I do think it's funny these sort of codes of honour

it's similar in Japan when honour sort of goes in on itself and it ends up basically see everyone ends up dying. Yes. Like it's the most honorable thing. Just emptying out towns of men through this kind of honor vendetta scheme.

Yeah. It just means that everyone's being honorable. Supposed to killing yourself, you just have to, it's just tip for tat. Kill him, kill him, kill him. Kill him. He killed me, so my brother's going to kill you and you have to kill them.

So it's basically a long-running blood feud and the first, I think the first big kind of mafia murder, the first time it enters the sort of lexicon of the Italians is in 1893 the Nortabado murder so this guy

he is a he's been mayor of Palermo maybe which is where all the it's all lemon groves in Palermo and it's the mafia are basically

right yeah they're running lemon groves and they're making a lot of money and so he I think runs one of the banks

in Palermo he then leaves because the mafia want to sort of take it over and do some fraud he then investigates the

corruption on the bank and then he gets on a train in 1893 and someone stabs him to death 27 times Right, because he's being un-Italian He's not being Italian He's not allowing corruption

So people go, what are you German? What are you doing? This is Italy We break the rules So this kind of is the first time This sparks the realisation that the mafia is deeply embedded in politics It could have been like an urban myth

Or like people would often say it's overplayed Because they worked in the shadows a lot But also the word mafia is like a, it sort of means vibe in Sicilian. Before it became the crime family, it was like Sicilians would call, yeah, we're a bit mafia, we're a bit of a, we're a bit like animalistic, we're a bit unruly, we're a bit mad. We're mad us, we're mafia. Cowboys. We're cowboys, yeah.

We can't be tamed. And then eventually that's became the name of the actual crime family. So he, he gets stabbed and then his son tries to take a mafia family to court. It takes 10 years. eventually the guy the Don or whatever he gets banged up but then a month later takes to the appeal court and they just quash it

because no one will testify because obviously it's just Mafia because they bought the courts and so this is where you start to get things like the San Giorology report which is when it's confirmed the Mafia existence and this is where we get to one of my favourite points in this story

which is Italian phrenology Wow So phrenologico Now Phrenology, as I don't need to explain, is a discredited 19th century science that I entirely believe. You're trying to re-credit.

I'm trying to recredit it. Give it, it's Jews. Not as Jews. Yeah. Dues. There's a leading criminologist Cesare Lombroso. Sounds trustworthy. Yes. He believes that anyone born south of Rome is born to be a criminal.

So he does this post-mortem of a notorious bandit named Viela. Vionetta. When he opens Vianetta's skull, he finds an unusual hollow, which is similar to features found in some animals. And he thinks, brilliant. This means criminals are biologically different. Do you any Italian in you, Charlie?

No, I haven't got any Italian in you, Charlie. Yeah, a phrenologist would have an absolute field day. Open that thing up. There's got me something in here, surely. It's the gold mine of 21st century phonology, is Charlie's head. So he identifies physical traits that are believed to be signs of a criminal type, facial asymmetry. Yeah. Jug Handleers

Garinica Yeah Low foreheads Long arms I got long arms Yeah So he claims that These people are kind of

Obviously primitive Humans Apes Non-Europeans are stationed Just lower rung The Ladder of Racial Development You know he's got a lot of stuff right Yeah

And he basically thinks That by extension All animals are criminal too Interesting So he thinks So northern Northern Italians So dogs are

Doughts They're thugs They're thugs Yeah Well I guess they you know, they'll eat anything, not they? Yeah, I guess so. So as you move up from Africa, up towards the...

So the Rome is where civilized man starts in his mind. Right. So everything else is a criminal. Yes. And also in the Mediterranean, I think a big culture shock is how they treat dogs. Yes. They're like footballs. They're all just out there.

Because I think here we've got crofts. They don't have crofts over there. No. Like here we treat our dogs better than any of our family members. Yes. all of our love and affection we're Italian towards our dogs Oh yeah we kiss the dogs

You're right actually you're right The British men They're Italian Their dogs are Italian moms And then to your actual wife You're fuck off Pig whore Separate beds

Yeah separate beds But in the Mediterranean dogs are treated Like rodents Yes they are They're big rats essentially So I guess it's a similar Quite Italian view of animals It makes sense

That they think they're criminals Yes that does make sense he has a museum of criminal phrenology in italy i think so that's still open yeah it's like you fin yeah well what you mean looks like me fuck off he does a bit like that you that's a guy that thinks sicily that thinks southern italians he looks learned he does look learned but for people listening um he's cross-eyed wearing pasne which is one of the most deadly combinations i think at this time at this if you're cross-eyed wearing pasne you're you're you're using your mind to do devastating things.

You're writing the most problematic paper of all time. He's also, he's looking side-on, cross-eye with Pasnay. I mean, it's so unintentionally funny. I'm a scholar and a racist. You know, anyway, there's a guy who takes it further called Nisiforo. So he writes a book in 1898 called Contemporary Barbarian Italy, which is the name of my work, working title of my current book, contemporary barbarian England.

He becomes a leading figure in the eugenics movement. He divides Italy into two civilizational zones. Here we go. This is a good... This is top stuff. This is a guy in his shed looking at a map with a pen. He's in a flow state. He's just like, right, what's going on?

Northern Italians are Aryan, rational and industrious. Southern Italians, especially Sicilians, have Mediterranean slash African blood, which makes them more emotional, violent, incapable of civic life, and prone to vendetta culture I feel like what I like is I don't think you spend much time on this before going for a nap as well I think this was like a 20 minute session

Oh the pen is the pen is falling on his hands Bish-bash-bosh That's lunch Five courses for lunch Let's sleep He also believed women who looked masculine I'm more likely to be criminals Again you know

Let's not throw the baby out with a bath water So he thinks the mafia are attributed to a variety of causes including their race, the weather and the fact that monasteries have promoted idleness by a doling out soup. Right, to the welfare state. Basically, great to mafia.

So that's the kind of context. Now, Sicilians are sort of always fighting against this fact that we're not, we're not, you know, a different race. And by the 1870s, a government report states violence is the only prosperous industry in Sicily. It's not, there's lemons. Yep. They love lemons.

And sulfur. The sulphur mines. Really fucking smelly stuff. Really? In terms of the mafia, you know you get made? Yeah. What would it take for me to get? Are you made men?

Well, I want a Joe Pesci one day. Yeah. Where we're like, Charlie, you no longer have to do the edits. You're going to be a co-hosts to the podcast. Yeah, we're going to get you on screen. Really? Yeah, we're going to have a ceremony where you welcome you. And then you walk into the studio.

No, no, no, he's in his best suit. He's put a suit on his first time. You can't wait. You've kissed your mum. You're really proud. Then you're walking here and no one's here. I really appreciate it. And you go, oh, no.

Fuck. Yeah. Shot in the back of the head. Yeah. So I'll never get made. No. But you'll think you will. No, because.

Up until the last two seconds. Because you are born a criminal. Right. Yeah. Because of my hollow head. Because you're a hollow head. Because you're a dog. You're a dog.

You're a pig dog. Charlie is a pig. Porko Charlie. Porki. Porko carlo. Yeah. We are going to have to let, at least George and Lenny at the end. This is the only way this ends.

Only way this ends. Because I think we got, we got, we got, we got, we got. We can't fire Charlie because that means you let him, is irresponsible to let him out. He knows too much, we can't let him out. Yeah, exactly. So we will have to tell you about the rabbits and shoot you in the back of the head. Hello, I'm Doreen Linsky.

And I'm Ian Dunn. We're the hosts of origin story, the podcast about the history that shapes our political discourse today. Our eighth season is all about the story of socialism from its earliest experiments to the present day. From Marx to Mao, Lenin to the Labour Party, Gramsci to Gorbachev, to Gorbachev.

We'll be exploring the people, the events and the ideas behind socialism and communism. So please join us as we journey through an idea that has changed the world. You can listen to us or watch us on video, on Spotify, your regular podcast app or now on YouTube.

So the San Joanie report was in 1890, chief of police Hermano San Giorgi investigates Palermo's Mafia for about two years and his reports revealed that there are individual families controlling whole neighbourhoods there are these sort of extortion networks which is a fair, it's a protection racket is a fair

funny thing. It's great. Give me some money or I'm going to punch you in the face. Yeah, you need protection from me. Yeah. I'll protect you from me.

From this, from this fierce now. Give me some money. It's brilliant. It's genius. They have a whole system of internal courts. They have cooperation

across the different clans on the island. And it's the first official description of the mafia as an organization, sort of 1900. But he tries to bring a trial against them. It fails because the witnesses recant. Yeah. Everything denies everyone.

They've got the courts in their pocket. Yeah. He dies of kidney failure in 1908. Suspicious So from 1900 to 1910 1 and a quarter million people leave southern Italy to New York Which is Godfather

Part 2 Yeah The beginning of that That's capping at this point This is where we get The word Wop And Spick

Although that's more Spanish Yeah Gumbar Guinea's Dago Yeah Dago's British actually It turns out

Dago's been We've been using Dago since the 1700s What Italian racism It's right On the line of Acceptability right Well yeah

Because it's like literally because it's interesting how bit by bit racism has been taken away from us and one of the last acceptable lines well where it is at the moment you know I think probably Brits are going to be the last to go

when you can be racist to British people that's real. Look at that poster look Wop just an Italian man in a Maffir's scoffing his face yeah it's hard to feel like you're being racist to Italians but I imagine in New York there was racist to Italian well a hundred years ago

the Italians were lynched in like, in like 1890s, Italians got lynched in like New Orleans because they basically thought Italians were black. Gangs of New York thought about that. Is it similar to how like no blacks, no dogs, no Irish? Would it have been in America? Well, the Irish were the first wave with a wave before the Italians. Yeah.

So they established earlier in more official civic positions. What's funny, we'll get to in the next episode. But when prohibition comes in, a large part of the panic of prohibition is that you're letting in immigrants who's. drink who have a drinking culture and obviously eastern seaboard of america is all oliver cromwell teetotan yes so they it's like it's like the flip reverse of where we are now with Muslim immigration they don't get the culture they're drinking all the time they're drinking too much boots yeah yeah yeah yeah drink any of it over here yeah yeah it's

the flip right right and they don't treat their women well enough would they cover up it's like we want to harass them you know yes the flip reverse with italians and the irish have sort of allied. There was a bit of a line, yeah, because I think Italians and Jews may be allied, but Irish, they were holding on to what their small foothold in America themselves. In the 19th century and the early 20th century, Italians, Irish and Jews were all competing for who was the biggest victim of the era. And I think you'd have to say the Jews and won that quite comprehensively, allegedly. So my favorite term, racialist term, is Spick, which is more Spanish. Yeah, it's more Mexican, right?

Yeah, but that comes from Minos speak English Minos speak yeah that comes from you know that Minos speak English Spick

I think WOP WAP comes from Guapo the etymology of what please derived from the southern

Italian dialect word guapo which means swaggerer or dandy dandy so yeah I guess they're all dandyish

Italians slick back there So it's basically gay I guess so but this is the last acceptable racism

yeah as you've said racism has been taken away from us as our sport. It's like when they banned fox hunting. It's tradition. It is.

It's our culture. Yeah. Is denigrating yours. But Wop and Daegh go and Spick, they don't have the same, you know, flinch that. No one's saying, should I say,

Wop with a hard pee? Anyway, a lot of people start leaving Sicily for New York. Mainly economic reasons, right? Yeah, and it's just a sort of big toilet that's got sells lemons. The lemon groves are like

the toilet duck. The urinal cakes The rhinole cakes The lemon groves from Sicily Anyway So World War I Wiennes the Italian state further And there isn't really much of a state at all

On the mainland World War I was a huge war in northern Italy Right Which we don't really talk about But it was like a really bloody Fucking front of the war So the mafia fills the vacuum Because a lot of police and soldiers

They leave for the front line Poverty deepens Black markets flourished and so the mafia they kind of profit from food shortages and they recruit returning soldiers so by 1920 the mafia is pretty much established in the in Sicily in the south of Italy sort of the peak of the mafia, the 20s

in America which we'll get to the next episode yes but in Italy we then meet friend of the pod one of my heroes Benito Mussolini Spaghetti alla Mussolini Spaghetti alla Mussolini The Dulce the leader

The fascism's founding father yes the first fascist sure the first go in it the first guy the first guy would be like right well i got to sort this out these people are ungovernable yeah uh which actually it makes sense that fascism is was born in italy because of how because of how works right they are yeah is that someone someone needs to right we've got a fucking club you've got to get up stop sleeping in the day yeah because it's so extreme it's so extreme that revolution had to happen someone has to be like okay fucking hell yeah get in the field So this is the big slack around the face.

Fascism is a slack around the face. Yeah. It's a cold plunge. Yeah. So Mussolini takes it as his mission. And Mussolini has the best fascist art. Oh, yeah. Well, Mussolini did what Putin does now,

topless in the fields. Yes. But the aesthetic of the fascist propaganda was awesome. Yeah, yeah. He also, do you know this, his favorite meal was garlic salads. Really? Yeah.

So 40 clothes of garlic. chopped up, bit of olive oil, lemon, salt. That's it. That's all he's eating. Stinky breath. Yeah, there's a lot of shots of him. Look at him. High-weighted trousers in the fields. Big, he's always puffing up. Dad, dad bod. Dad-bod, but with the chest out. So this is the birth of a lot of stuff, right? Yeah. He's kind of he's like the first to do it. He's the first hard man. Yeah. I mean, fuck it. Forty clothes of garlic, oil, salt. Yeah. Breakfast. Crazy. Fuck yeah. And also when I heard Misalini, it was like it was like, I'm going to fucking eat that. I mean, no wonder he's pissed off. That's a way to start your day, though. Forty

clothes of raw garlic. That's fucking, that's getting you fired up. So he goes to Sicily. So he takes power in like, is it 22 the March on Rome or something like that? Early 20s. And he goes to Sicily when he's taken power. And then he's brought a load of armed guards and there's a mafia

boss that's like, why you got these fucking guards? You know that I'm protecting you? And he sees that as an insult. So he then goes, right, I'm going to smash the mafia. Yeah, because I mean, it doesn't really work. The way that mafia do it doesn't really quite work with fascism. but it's too much like

it should be like out in the open kind of authoritarianism not in the shadows he's like there's no one all individuals should be quashed because it's all about the state and it's all about the big Italian nonner

yeah yeah the big yes the big nonner in the sky yeah sure mama we're all 30 year olds that's still breastfeed on our mum on one teat one tit yeah he's the tit yeah so he he employs a guy called

Chesari Mori, who's the Iron Prefect. Right, okay. Not quite as catchy as the Iron Lady. Were you an Iron Prefect at school? I was not an iron prefect. I definitely not a prefect. Were you a prefect? I was for a bit. But I think I was a house prefect. I think I got in trouble too much. Yeah, I could never be a prefect. Were you a prefect, Charlie? No, I was someone's buddy. I got assigned to be their, like, their friend, but not.

You got like the Prefect Caddy. You were at a Sunshine School, right? Here's your buddy. Yeah, he had to buddy up. So do you mean so you can like cross the road and stuff? Special prefect. Yeah. Did you have to wear high vis? I did a certain size, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Yellow and orange. Yeah. If you were leaving the school, we had to wear high biz. Age 15. The only school where there's teenagers using lollipop ladies to cross the road. Yeah. So, uh, Chazade Mori launches a brutal crackdown from 9 to 24 onwards.

So he goes to Sicily with like an army, essentially. black-shirted army he hangs mafia leaders from lamp posts he basically lays siege to villages I mean yeah trying to deal with the mafia it does feel like maybe the most effective way to deal with the mafia I guess hang them from lamp posts

yeah yeah because it does sort of work January 1926 yeah he just goes to this town Ganges and just basically says anyone who's not if you don't give up the mafia I'm just going to fucking shoot you all he sets up machine gun nests on a village right to basically be like come on lads get out of here

11,000 arrests. Yeah, and that's in Palermo. He tortures people. He deports Mafia's families. After this, many people flee to the United States, which we'll get to the next episode. So a lot of the Mafia go. This is a big wave of mafias to New York.

So some detainees are later released for lack of evidence, but the mafia basically suffers huge sort of defeat. Tragedy. Tragedy. This is where the story moves to New York. And the New York police usually overlooked crime in Italian districts. because they're like, they're probably reading

their phonology stuff. Yeah, they're ungovernable. Ungovernable. Their heads are too big. But a spate of murders in 1902 draws attention. Several male victims are found in barrels.

Right. In the street, crates and sacks. Some of them have their tongue split. Because it's the sign they broke in the emerita, the vow of silence, right? And the Sicilian gang lead... So they're doing sort of like

your symbolic art. Performance art. Yeah, we're to cut your tongue open. Right. Maybe it makes you think. Like, like, oh, like that. I think it's a comment on capitalism or something. Wow, it's powerful.

So Morello is the prime suspect, because he runs a counterfeiting operation with people known as Lupo the Wolf. I trust him. And Petto the Ox. Not Porello. No, they are unbelievable. They are unbelievable those olives.

How long they've been around? Because now they're very trendy East London, but is it like, why are they better than Everest? Why are they 15 times better than the next best? I drink, I drink, I drink, I drink, I drink it in a dirty martini. I just drink it out of the can. Yeah, of course. It's the best, it's the nicest flavour.

Yeah, what's going on there? But why is it so much better? Why are all olives terrible after you have one Porello? I can't really go back. But these guys, I mean, I'd do anything for them. How long Porello have been around? 964. Maybe they're playing soggy olive and that's what.

Well, that's Italian men's come in there. We don't know because why it tastes so different. Yeah, they are the best olive. Shout out, Porello, olives. We'd love us, if we got sponsored by Porello. Oh my God. But they don't need any help. from us.

They're doing it right. I'll down a two kilogram jar of olive brine live on the show. Yeah. I'll pay you to do that. Oh, delicious. So in April 1903,

our body is found in a barrel, which I guess is like, like this. Right. Yeah. Like that? Could be? I don't know.

Could be like straight up and folded. Fold the body in a barrel. Yeah. We'll just for, hinged over the waist. So just rolled up. Like a tie up. Right.

Okay. Yeah. Scrunched up. We don't know. We can't know. A detective recognizes the victim from seeing him with the wolf and the ox at a restaurant run by Pietro Inzerio. And the barrels traced to his suppliers. So the case goes to Italian-American detective Joe Petrosino.

Yeah, right. Joe Petrol. Yep. So he gets a prisoner to identify the dead man as his brother-in-law, Benetetto Maradonilla. Marlonio. So a bunch of people are arrested, but everyone refuses to repeat the statements on trial because they're terrified. sure of the guys yeah so anyway the ox evades arrest and moves to brown town Pennsylvania goes for a poo we're going to brown town baby sorry guys I've just got to move to

brown town I'm just uping sticks to brown town I don't think this has helped actually is that genuine Charlie can you Google Maps just because you're still going to jail yeah you can just go for a poo you're not in witness protection yeah you're arrest you're in jail and you shut no I'm moving to Browntown live from Browntown live from Browntown live from special life from brown town it'd be like johnny cash and false in prison brown town blues um anyway the ox gets shot dead in brown town and so but petrosino joey petrel continues investigating the sicilian mafia connections so he goes in 1908 he travels secretly to palermo under a false name Joey Diesel

I don't know John Unleaded Right The options are endless You know Giuseppe unledillo Anyway information about his journey

is leaked and reaches Don Vito Cascoferro Who is a powerful Silumathial leader Yeah Don Vito is believed To have unified

All the gangs And he kind of modernises extortion and kidnapping It needed modernising It needed It's a dark age We need someone

To sort extortion out Use AI Use big tech Come on Move with the times. Move with the times. So on March 12th, 1909, Don Vito personally shoots Petrosino in Palermo. Right.

In the middle of town, town square. Yeah. Just like an openly boasts about it. So this back in the 19909, so this is pre-Musil, at the pomp of the Mafia. Yes, this is, there's a height of Mafia in Sicily. Right. So Petrosino, his body gets like shit back to New York and everyone's like, what the, what the fuck are you? What the fuck are you?

What the fuck? Yeah, open up with Perello olives and there's fucking Petrosino in there. So the mafia is essentially smashed in Sicily. Smash the gangs. We're going to smash the gangs. Yeah. Kirstama's saying, smash the gangs.

Yeah. Mussolini is Keir's Dama smashing the gangs. This is how you actually smash the gangs. Yeah. So now the Sicilian mafia by, what, by 1930, yeah. It's kind of completely, it's on its knees. Right.

And not because it's going down on its mom. No. It would love that. So it's fled into American exile where the Sicilian mafia expands dramatically because the Americans are experimenting with the most Presbyterian policy there's ever been. No booze.

Yes, of course. The biggest dry January ever. Yeah. Prohibition. How long is Prohibition? 13 years? What? Imagine that. So I guess it's because like the boring people at the top of society in America

and the fun people at the bottom and so all the lawmakers. It's the Titanic. Yeah, it is. I've just had four weeks off the booze. and I'm never doing that again. No, I've had pretty much four weeks off the booths. Hated it.

Yes, really? Well, it's like, yeah, I've got, I'm, you know, I've lost a bit of weight, whatever, I'm clear, so I've got, I can think clearly. I can listen. I can, but I'm still just as stressed and angry, so all those problems didn't go away. Yeah. And it doesn't, yeah, it doesn't solve your, solve your head. Yeah, the binfire that your life is. Yeah, my life is still, you know, I've still got to look after two fucking idiots.

Yeah. I was like, I'm still just as stressed. so just now don't have a release. Well, it's just, yeah, it's just your stress is in 4K. Yeah. As opposed to 720P. Oh, I got my 9 to 360, I reckon. I was like a game boy.

It was an 8-bit stress. It was like, what? It's just, it's more relaxing. Who are those two small shapes over there? You know when sometimes it's 2 4K on TV and you can see their black heads and stuff? It's like, I don't need to see that. I don't see that. Dull it.

No. We need to dull this. Just put a blanket over it. Yeah, exactly. Put a burkeromy problems. Anyway, the, the mafia in Sicily is collapsed and it, flees to America where in our next episode we will we will deal with the spicks the wops and the day goes as they flood through the step past the Statue of Liberty yeah and will

they behave themselves we'll see I don't think they will um give us your poor your wop give us your what would it be there we go give me a tired get your poor your huddled masses so that's what it says on the statute of liberty yearning to breathe free give us Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, you're into B3. But in this day and age, it's give us your spicks, your whops, and your pastonoblers. We'll turn them into Mafia. We're going to turn them into Mafia. What is it?

Are we going to cover, I'm walking here in episode two? Yeah, of course we are. Good. Yes. I'm podcasting here! That's going to be episode two. That episode is already on the Patreon, where for three pounds a month, you can get, you can become your own Mafioso. Yeah.

Join the most corrupt Mafia of all. They have purple fedoras. Yeah. They say Fuck you to their mum They don't kiss anyone In the mouth No

Our family It is like a big crime family Yes Yeah I guess so Yeah What kind of crimes Are they committing though Crimes against smells

Yeah Crimes against decency Anyway that episode is already On the Patreon We have three pounds a month You can join our Mafia family But if not We will see you next time

For the Mafia in America Bye Tootie Thank you.