Fin vs History - Nazis Are No Match For Knobbly Knees | Monty vs Rommel (Part 1/4)

Episode Date: June 29, 2026

This episode of Fin vs History is brought to you by Surfshark.   Secure your privacy with Surfshark! Enter coupon code FVH for an extra 4 months at https://surfshark.com/fvh  Introducing Monty & Rommel, the original big short wearers. Monty & Rommel (Part One) The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened.   For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon  ⁠patreon.com/fintaylor Chapters: 00:00 - Tan Mogging 04:27 -  Get The Knees Out 08:04 - Hammering Kippers 11:30 -  He’s Up For It 15:58 - The Height Of Bush 21:40 - Spreading Misinformation 26:52 -  Logistical Nightmare 32:14 - Long Road To Stanton  35:25 - The Escort Battalion 38:34 - Baby Jane 42:36 -  Feels Rushed 47:37 - It Was Reckless  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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history. I'm joined by Horatio Gould. And we're back in World War II. We're in the desert. It's happening, lads. The knees are out. The knees are out. I'm getting brutally tan-mogged by Finn at the moment. You're getting skin-mossed. You've just come back from Tenerife. I've been in the desert. And then you've decided that we're going to wear shorts and he humiliated me. You're being skin-mogged right now. Completely. I mean, I look white at the best of times, but I chose my podcast partners on their

whiteness, and now you've gone and tanned yourself. Turns out. Turns out, I've got some some heritage it turns out. Look at this. This is absolutely humiliating. And also, I've got tiny knees and you've got big knees. And then I've got a big head and you got a small. So it's like a weird combination. The circus mirror.

But this is the beauty standards of most of the, most of history, is a small head, big thighs? Is it? That you can, your head's too big to be to drown in a man's thighs. Yeah. Or a woman's thighs. Right. Okay.

My head's the perfect size. Okay. To fit in perfect size. Yeah, to be cracked like a walnut in between a woman's size. Yeah, but then also another fin tailor could fit perfectly with the jeans. I could tessellate with myself. Whereas my massive head's not going to be crushed by these knees. Your thighs, I'm going to take the edge of your fucking massive.

What's a man meant to do with thighs like that? But also, you're more historically accurate in that you've got the British knobbly knees. You look like a, you look like a... I've got a Patriot's knees. I don't know what's going on. You've got some not today fucking knees going on. I do. I do have, not today. Well, I've just come back from the Western Sahara.

Tenerife, but it was close to the Weston, Aras. Yes, well, I suppose it's before and after, isn't it? You're Monty before. Yeah. And I'm Monty World War I. This is Monty World War I. Today we're talking about Monty and Romel.

It's the start of an epic four-part series. It's a homerotic love affair. It is. I say this now. Monty and Romal, the North African Desert, is my favourite part of World War II. This is basically all of us strangers. You know the film with Andrew Scott and Paul Mescal?

I've not seen it. I've not seen it. No. You can, you can assume. There's two Irish guys fucking. Right. You can. Is that one wanting Robles in?

Basically, yeah. That's what I got out of the research. That's not why I like it. Monty and Romble, the North African desert. They're not two Irish blocs fucking. That's not what this is. Conservative dad at a barbecue game getting triggered. This is what I'm wearing as well on the barbecue.

No, it's not that, actually. They're not fucking. You're dressed like my dad on some early holidays in the 19. because this is what I love about the North African Desert campaign. It is the highlight, the high point of big shorts. Yes. This is where big shorts beats the Nazis. It's true.

And it's not something that happens again. No. I guess big shorts have been a mainstay of the British Empire. Yes. But they've normally been mowing down indigenous people with a gatling gun. Well, well. So which is... Your words.

You know, they've been bravely fighting off insurgents. Yeah. So I guess this is the high... blowing down citizens. This is the highlight of big shorts because it's up against another foe that's kind of equal measure. This is like scouts.

You know, this is the high point of brownies of scouts, fighting Nazis in the desert. The Nazis are on meth and it's sober men in big shorts who are saying no. Would you say arguably underrated theatre of the war?

Uncovered? Like I don't know if it's in the popular imagination that much North Africa when it's one of our big things. We got Dunkirk. Yeah. You've got Normandy, you got D-Day.

But this is the only time in the war where the Britons actually win without the Americans. Yeah. And it's also the high point of... I guess that's why no one else talks about it. Exactly. Yeah. And the Americans also, when they land in 1943, they make everything that Monty does completely irrelevant. Yeah.

And they just don't need to happen. Yeah. So I guess it's a semi-relevant theater in a way. It's not irrelevant. No. It's relevant. It's relevant for morale. Yeah.

Yeah. The Russians aren't saying, thank God, Monty won. in El Alamein. No, they're not. They fucking saved us. Yes. Maybe. No, this is the most important...

Autistic man in big shorts. This is the most important part of World War II. It's the North African Desert, okay? Libya is the key from... Libyan Desert must remain in British hands. Yes. Now, we're going to be dealing with Monty and Romwell. What's great about this theater of war is that it is...

Firstly, it's the most gentlemanly part of... World War II. There are no war crimes. No, you're right. There's no Einzatz Gruppen. There's no Holocaust. There's a couple of Bedouins who get blown up by field mind. Get out of the kitchen if I can't sound of the heat.

You know what I mean? It's like, I grew up in the kitchen. Get out. Get a fuck off. It's not a kitchen to the desert. Take your pajamas off and put some big shorts on like a man. Right? It's true. It's the most gentlemanly theatre of conduct. It is genuinely an end-to-end ding-dong for the neutral.

of which I'm one. It's the closest the World War II gets to football, I think. Yes, it is. Because it's a cross-a-pitch is expansive and it's managerial styles.

Yes, it is. It's sort of Louis and Rico's PSG versus Artetta's Arsenal. I'd say it's closer to Croif versus Marino. Yeah.

It's like Pep versus Marino. It's like the most stark iterations. Studying this, it's been, we'll get onto it in more, it is so similar to football. Yes. It's like creating overloads.

Yeah, going right in behind. beating an off side trap. It's desert warfare. It's the high point of World War II for the Brits, I'd say. And in Monty and Romel, you have these two personalities who kind of embody styles of warfare and cultures. Cultures.

Although, interestingly, Romel is not a card carrying Nazi. Is he not? No. He's a sort of German military man who kind of is there all the way. He's in the military before he's in the Nazi. Well, there's a lot of revisionism out Romwell where he's like he was kind of a good bloke or something. It was like he was still. Yes, which I disagree with because he was not a Nazi.

Exactly. So there's always like, yeah, but he was, you know, he didn't really. He just loved tanks. No. It's like a high, one of the most important generals in Nazi high command. It's like, you know, but he didn't, his heart wasn't in it. What's the badger and his fucking hat? What's the badge on his hat say?

There's been less Nazi people than Roblin. That's true. It's not the least. In the grand scut. Of all people who ever to have it. Rommel is still one of the most nuts people that's ever been But we're going to get

It's the start of a four-part series An epic World War II summer The knees are out for a couple of weeks We're going to be joined in part This is the can-can This is straight male can-can We're going to be joined in part three and four By Pierre Novelli

Finally We're going to get blown out of the water Autism-wise Our autism and also our legs Will be blown out the water We'll never look more Less autistic than we're Peter Nevelli's here It's going to be like

Fuck, we really don't have any of that. We don't know what's going on. It turns out. Also, yeah, is he going to have his legs out? I don't know yet. Because if I'm getting knee-mogged now by you. I'm going to get knee-mogged by him. These knees are like, these are top-tier knees.

I think Piano Belli might be the only man who could drown your head in his thighs. And unstoppable. And unstoppable. Start up to the pageant to see that happen. Pierre will sit on a ratio's face and smother him with his. I mean, I think. Maybe both of my thighs equal one of his thighs. Yeah, it's pretty short.

People always comment on my thigh gigantic. You don't, you haven't seen anything. You don't see nothing yet. All right. Thy Thanos will join us in part three, part four. So in this part, we're going to deal with Monty and Rommel's early lives. Now, let's start with Monty. Bernard Law Montgomery.

He's as kind of a British man as it gets, is it at this guy? Bernard Law Montgomery. Montgomery. He's born in 1887. Let's just place that for the listeners. Right. So this is, fuck. This is before,

just before Jack the Ripper. And he is born after, um, uh, he's born, thank you, Charlie. What have you found?

He's born after the first kipper. The first kipper was created in 1843. Created. So what is a kipper? It's a smoked herring. It was, uh, before Jack the Ripper. It was after,

um, first kipper. Uh, John Woodger's kipper. John Woodrow created the kipper A famous delicacy Is it a delicacy of kipper? Yeah, my parents and grandparents

are absolutely hammering kippers Hammering them And you went to hammer delicacies? Like seals What is it Charlie? I love kipper Yeah I have them with my eggs

You're a smoked fish guy I am I had smoked fish I'd pickled herring With my eggs on holiday And I could probably I did it once And I thought I'll go back to bacon

Actually do you know what I mean In Tenerese Yeah All inclusive buffet Because there's a lot of German there. There's a lot of smokefish going on. Right, right, right.

Was it nice to have a proper breather? Yes, it was, but we're back at work now, Charlie. Hello, I'm Doreenlinsky from Origin Story. And I'm Ian Dunn. We're the hosts of a podcast that tries to tell the truth about the political terms that we use today. None of the tribal bullshit, none of the irrationality,

none of the hysteria, just accuracy and laughs as we try to understand the world around us. We dig into history to tell stories that explain why we are, where we are today. And we're very excited that we get to do this on stage as well. And soon we will be doing it at our biggest ever live show.

Yeah, on September the 1st in the Union Chapel, London, come join us there for a night of laughs, maybe a few tears, and just a general feeling of moral vindication. There's a link to buy tickets in the show notes. And the good news is if you're a Patreon, you get a fairly substantial discount. So if you've been thinking of signing up, now's a good time. We'll see you there.

So Monty is born before Jack the Ripper after John Woodger's Kipper. That's pretty lovely. It's lovely stuff that. He's the fourth of nine children. His dad, Henry Montgomery,

he had met his mother Maud when he was 30 and she was 11. Yeah, the actual, it needs to be a little bit more playful. No, the angry dog. Bras!

I don't think it doesn't. Sorry, when she's 11, I'm not sure it is playful. I hear, oh, oh, He proposes to her.

Sorry. Sorry, I just want to get this out. Before we go to what Charlie's found, he proposes to her when he's 32 and she's 14. Now you are, now you're, romance is not dead. You're 30?

You did 30 yet? 29. Can you imagine proposing to a 14 year old? Can you imagine the... Give me a second. Just, what are you... How are you, the cognitive dissonance of trying that? How would you do it?

Give them some millions. Box of nerds. Proposing to a 14 year old. Yeah, I don't know what you... I guess they make them insecure and then like... Well, no, no, they don't need to neg them. They don't need to assault them, Charlie. I give them body image issues.

I guess so, yeah. And so, you'll never find anyone else but me. Yeah, maybe. At that age, you mean, it's because of how vulnerable they are. Yeah. Yeah. What have you found for us, Charlie? Smarly man aged 112, Mary's girl of 17.

Those are pretty good numbers. That's quite a small age gap for the Somalis, I think. Like 25 years. He's old enough to be a young. her great great grandfather, but Ahmed Mohammed Dorei claims that it's a dream and he already has 13 kids by five wives. And what's interesting is that this is a dream. It's his dream come true.

What's interesting is that this is in the Guardian and they're not making any judgments about it. But also when it's that much, it ceases to become like an icky age gap. Do you know what I mean? Because it's like it's sort of past being, it's something else now. He's transcended the creepiness. It's also a 105-year-old Malaysian man, Sue Darmato, who married a 22-year-old in September. nice as we're moving on from the fattest baby. We have done all the fattest babies.

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Do not let the online threats catch you off guard. So, yeah, Monty's, Monty has a fairly brutal childhood. Sure. And his dad becomes, his dad's a religious man and becomes Bishop of Tasmania. Aw. They all moved to Australia.

And his mum, Maud, is an absolute cunt. Sure. She beats the kids because she does not want them to speak, like with an Australian accent. Fair enough, which I think is, I think is absolutely fair enough. You've got to be careful. You know, we're talking about Bernard Montgomery. talking about, oh, oh, Monty, oh.

Wack and Oz sort of thing. Yes. As soon as it pops up, any song, Oh, oh, ma'am, shut up. Yeah. So he goes back to London when he's 13. He's nicknamed Monkey at school because he's mischievous. Monkey!

And in 1908, he has appointed to his first role in the army, the Royal Warwick's first battalion. He's posted to Peshwar in India. Is that where the Peshwanaan comes from? Must be where the Peshwara Narn comes from. And it's a monkey. it's quite a fruity place. Sure.

Peshwai Narn is my narn of choice. Is anyone's ordinary a curry? It's like a pudding. It's like cake. Yeah. Can I have some cake with my curry? So he goes to Peshwar. And again, this is what we'll learn

throughout this series is that their personalities they really do have an impact on the actual conflict. 100%. And that's what's so interesting about the commanders during World War II. It's like literally your Mizebrigg test personality shaped the theatres of war

so many people's lives. So what does that mean about Hitler? What are we saying about Hitler? What do you mean what he's saying about Hitler? Were you saying his personality shape the war? I'd say so. Well, I'd say there was a lot of ideas going around.

Yeah, sure. I think, yeah, there's definitely some temperament that maybe shaped the first stage of the war, potentially. Possibly, possibly. It's too early to tell, I think. It's way too early to tell. Now, Monty goes to India, and again this is

you know We're in the glory India This sounds like a fucking A film that I watch Again again He now he You know

This is the high point of the empire This is you know He's putting on big shorts For the first time He's born in the late 1880s So he is literally born At the height of British supremacy They think that it'll never end

He's born in Surrey as well So it's like Right at the heart Of the heart Of the big empire at that time So he is like the most British man Ever best time and place ever Yeah

But he does lived till the 80s. Yeah, he's the longest living of all of them. So he does get to see it or go to shit. Yes, he does. But he's been sold that it's going to carry on forever. And he, well, yeah, he arguably, he saves it in many

ways. Sure. Because this is the most important part of World War II. So he struggles to fit in with his battalion socially. Which is sad. And this is in sort of Edwardian Britain.

be probably the most autistic time that there's been maybe Victorian's probably I think Victorian more autistic Edwardian gets fruitier It does but you know it's still by today's standards Sure

And yet he is Historians think he almost definitely had Asperger's Which makes Piano Belli's appearance Even more relevant Yeah of course Even in an autistic time He was too autistic for that time

He stuck out Right so he didn't drink He didn't share banter he liked getting his big knees out He kept the banter to himself You've got to be sharing the banter No no shit no no That's my banter

That's my banter Get your own fucking banter I'm going to have banter with myself In a dark room In an attempt to integrate with his peers He had both of his forearms Tatoed Which he then later became very ashamed of

And hid Okay So he's so my point is that both Montan Romer are professional soldiers Which is quite rare When we think about World War one and two, and we think about it's conscription and the heroes are all conscripted, but

in World War I, they're both professional soldiers. Oh, really? Would you say that most, a lot of the other big commanders are? No, no, not the commanders, I think when World War I, the actual fighting force that's professional is minuscule compared to... Oh, you mean everyone fought at the war, but he was already there? Exactly. So he's fucking... He's up for it. They're up for it, these two, right? The World War I was just

completely normal. It's just completely what he expected. Yes, he signed up for it. He was already there. Yeah. He was already in a trench in the song. And then everyone just else had joined him. Yeah. What are you doing here? I'm collecting bugs for my big shorts. So he's in India, but he's in the army.

And that's the best way to cope with his bitch mother. Rommel, Johannes Irwin Eugene Rommel. That's a German name. That's a lovely name. He's born in 1891, two years after Hitler. And he's born in Heidenheim and Brentz. And this is, you know, this is what, 15 years, 20 years after Germany's become a country. He's not intellectual, but he's very sporty.

Yes. Similar to Monty. He's a man of action, not a man of thinking. He's not a man of thinking. He's impulsive. Gets after it. This guy loves it. He loves drugs.

He loves pints. He loves tail. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's the opposite of Monty. Monti likes to get his knees out, then go to bed at 9.30. As you said, it's autism of a thing. ADHD. This is clear ADHD as you've ever seen. Yes. He won't let anyone finish a sentence. I get it. I get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Let's just go. Let's go. Go. Go. Go. Fuck it. Um, so age 18, he gets accepted into the 124th Vurttemberg infantry regiment. Calm down. Ladies. Ladies, calm down. It's a very important part in anyone's life. Yeah. When they are accepted into the Verteembourg infantry regiment. Okay. It's like the, it's like a bar mitzvist. The was bar mitzvah is when you're accepted into the 124th Vertonbergs. Now, now, uh, he, now, what's interesting about the German Vermeacht at this point

if you can call them that the army if you can even call them the We're going to call them the We're in 1910 even call you them the Vermack

can't say that these days can't call them at these days they are so there's two very different schools of thought with the military in that the Brits

think regimented command bureaucracy chain of commands because they've had to maintain a vast empire using a relatively small amount of people

so it's all about It's also about stuff that you can apply globally to loads of different. You should be able to read a booklet that explains you how to run a com. It's scouts. Yeah. Tell him off if he looks like this. Fuck off. Have you got your race war badge?

Yes, I have. How big of your shorts? I will defer to the man with the bigger shorts. So it's very clear. Whereas the Germans are that imperial insecurity because they haven't had a mass of cloning empire. They're a new country. So they're kind of got a blank slate. Yes.

They're a modern force. But also they think that war is chaos and that you capitalize. Because they've got the fucking North fucking, Yeah, they've got the gods of Woden in it. Yeah. So they think war is chaos and you capitalize on that chaos by giving individuals on the ground freedom to make decisions. So this is Juergen Klopp.

He's a German. Yes. Well, yeah. This is the long road to the Gengen Press. To the Gagin Press. from an early age he is getting used to the idea of an individualised command and a sort of improvisational warfare

which is quite rare at this time improv so he's into improv he's yes anding and by yes anding I mean he's baynessing italians okay straight improv fine that's the kind of improv that I like I like improv yeah I like improv you're talking about Romwell's use of the Panzer Division oh you're talking about five noncers in the basement

in the Edinburgh fridge oh no I don't want to go and say that Sorry. I'd like to see improv in the North African desert in the 40s. Anyway, so now Rommel falls in love with a woman called Lucy Mullen in the summer of 1911. Go on, let's have a look. Oh, dear. She looks nice.

You don't know what? You had to see her back in the day. Yeah. She looks like Miriam. Your massive crush. Yeah. No. She looks like a colder Miriam Margles.

There's a place to that. She's not hiding any Jews in her attic. Put it that way. She's got a cold face If you know what I mean If you know what I'm not being What she won't put out Never had to call that before

Yeah you've been to approve She's not hiding any junior attic You know what I mean So she Okay No Better there Better there

But it's got that hair Where You can be in your early 20s And you have like sort of six year old Yeah No one looks that fuckable In the 1910s

You know Because the racial science is so good but the women are so ugly. It's such a... Help, this makes sense. The ideas make sense, but the evidence is so... No, women did not shave their pubic hair during World War I.

In fact, removing body hair was not a common practice woman at all. I could have told you that, Charlie. It's the 70s in the 80s. It's a reaction against the 70s Bush. If we're tracking... It's reactionary. Shaving your pubes is reactionary. It's daily male stuff.

Okay? It's male online, filth. Right? Because the 70s is the heart. of the bush. Okay. Is it the height of the bush? Really, yes.

History has been going in a straight line upwards with women's pubic hair. Or is it the stylised bush? Because you're saying back, this is saying before, it's, no one shaving it. It's not stylized down there. Yeah,

the problem is the 70s is when the cat, the pawn starts and you see the angles that you'd never seen before. And you think that's, that's, that looks like a dead dog down there. You could do something about that, ladies. And then you get the 80s,

which they just overcorrect. And they just start getting rid of all it and the that looks mad it's crazy crazy it's crazy it's extremeist terrorism

you know it's genital terrorism it's genital mutilation yes do you and um amanda shave each other's okay well let's carry on each other's

let's move on each other's 69 shaving sorry what's my pump that my ass my ass

right um no anyway so he falls in love with Lucy Moline but they don't wed

because he's busy with the army So he goes back to his humor and then he has a bastard baby with a woman called Gertrude Right? No, Gertrude is the name of the kid What's the woman called? Valberger. Her name is Valberger.

Stemmer. Keir Stemmer. Keir Stemmer. Valberd. Her name is Valberger. Right. Gorgeous name. Oh, beautiful. Beautiful.

Sweet baby Val Balba. Vodgat. Yeah. Irwin and Valberger starts a whirlwin romance. Of course. And they had a

bastard baby called Gertrude. Now, he then goes back to Lucy Mullen and marries her and Valberger kills us.

Which, you know, is obviously sad. Valberger didn't kill herself. But I think if your parents are calling you Val Burger, I think you really

snooking. I'm going to leave this gun on the table, you know what to do, Val Burger. When you turn 18, You cannot live a life called Val Burger. Val Burger.

Awful. Aren't the Val Burger, please. She dies quite young, I guess. So it's sort of, it's in and out burger. Yeah. Anyway. But Gertrude and Robble maintaining a good relationship throughout their lives, which is nice. That's lovely.

So his bastard daughter. Now, they both fight in World War I, Monty and Romort. Now, Monty is deployed to France in August 1914. Now, the book I read about this, there's a story of his, first sort of supposedly what he does right in combat is he runs in with a sword he trips over and um falls over with his sword there's another story that he gets a medal for it well there's another story that he essentially like they're charging and he scissors kicks some like a german yeah and stabs him and then everyone's like yeah i don't know if that's true yeah if this guy this guy with nobly

knees just runs out and then fucking decanio is a german but i mean with all these stories there's no VAR. There's no, yeah. It is all, oh, I just went down that hill and, like, fucking killed,

like, you should have seen me. Yeah, and I had no weapons they had loads of guns, but I had the Kung Fu and I'd like matrix down. No,

she goes to a different school. Yeah. It's like, it's all that. Like, I do know any of that happened. Supposedly, his first charge at Lakato,

he charges, uh, he falls over by the time he stands up, everyone's dead. So. Yeah, well, is that the one where he,

um, get shot in the lung. No, that's slightly later. So that's in October at Metteren. He gets shot in the right lung. The script says shit. The German shits in his lung, and that's not cricket.

How is that happened? The dyslexia of our researcher is spreading profound disinformation about a national hero. There's enough disinformation on this podcast already. A lot of guys wearing Star Wars t-shirts saying, did you know that our Monty actually had a shoes in his way? Do you know that in World War I, actually, the Germans would shit in our commander's lungs. Do you know that?

I don't know what you want to conceptualise that. What does it say in AIO review? Yes, it's possible, though very rare. This serious condition usually happens in specific emergency situations rather than from inhaling particles. Airborne particles. Maconium aspiration syndrome.

Have you seen it? It's not very aspirational. Fucking guzzling shit. This is anal rail gun. I don't want to see it. It makes more a butt plug to an MRI machine and unbeknownst to them, it contained some type of ferromagnetic metal

and it kind of flew up into their lung. Okay, I don't need to see it. And it's called an ale rail gun. No, no, no, no, no, no. Fuck me. There's an x-ray. There's an x-ray of a... Speed of sound?

A concord up your arms. The greatest personal injury case he'd ever heard. A butt plug, which was advertised as 100% silicone, but it had a metallic core and it accelerated at the speed of sound into the client's chest cavity. Does he do it? No, he'd survive with major injuries.

Major injuries. Right. I mean, be careful. I do just want to say, if you're going to an MRI with a butt plug, I think you deserve whatever you get.

It's like having Cesarian because you've had such a bad... I mean, guys, just... Can you fucking leave it at the door? For once, you take a day off? You're going for an MRI? How regularly you're wearing butt plugs that you forget to take it out?

Or just like... Phone wallet keys. Fuck my... Oh, my butt plugs didn't. Yep, great. It's an MRI. It's serious. You know?

take it, fucking take a day off, mate. Right? So yeah, you get a fucking Gaddafi in an MRI because you've left a butt plug

I think you get, you deserve it, frankly. Anyway, I can't stress enough how that's not what happens to burn as Montgomery

in World War I. He is shot in the lung. His world and experiences are all pretty funny. They're all kind of like Bernie Hill cloudy moments. None of them are that heroic.

They're always just him slipping and miss. That's what's terrible World War I is that it is just calamity. Yeah. In that there's no heroic,

because it's all just blokes walking, running, running and then getting shot. So he's shot in the right lung. All of the war heroes are the people who just managed to slip at the right time by chance, basically. So in this instance,

he's shot in the right lung. Dead bodies fall over him. He survives. And he weakened at Bernies, right? Yeah, basically. And then British forces try and, they think he's dead. And then they hear this,

ah, and he's played dead. I don't want to make a fast, but. And then they basically, someone is lying. on here and on top of him for hours being riddled with bullets. Yeah, because he's just taking it.

He can see that he's alive and it's just fucking... Yeah, and he just takes it. He gets shot again in the knee, by the way, when they're railing bullets down, he still get shot twice. And his butt plug goes through his arms. I mean... This guy's... Yeah, the sniper puts him in an MRI and he's like, oh, oh, wait, great, no way, no way!

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train spotting, gay hookups, Diana's revenge dress, and what it was really like to be a Spice Girl, flunged back into the decade when the world fell for cool Britannia, Bumster jeans and Lemon Hooch with Talk 90s to Me. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. And if you use Spotify, you can watch the whole show too. That's Talk 90s to Me, out every Monday. Anyway, so, he then, this is so funny, he goes to recover, he thinks, right, well, that's the worst going to get, and he rejoins just in time for the Somme. I mean, this is what funny about World War I. So my great granddad For in...

That's nice. Rejoins just in time for the SOM. Few. I wouldn't want to have one of SOM pho. My great granddad, this is what's brutal about World War I is that he... So he got Shell Shock and Gallipoli.

Wrote a book about it. Absolutely fucked. Gullipoli. Went home, recovered. Comes back. Brilliant. Somm. Hates it.

Obviously. Bad time. Goes home, recovers. Comes back. Eepra. I mean, it's like, can the guy got to catch a break? Did he fight an Eipra?

I think he went to Eepro. I think it was mainly done by the time. Yeah. What was it, the 20s? It's the 20s by that point. Spanish flu. He knows a holiday. Anyway, so what he realizes at the Somme in particular,

because he's a courier from the front lines to the generals, is that these generals are nowhere near the front. And he's like, this isn't working. This chain of commands with the men and big thoughts. Which is a difference with Germans to British is, right? Yeah. The British is a lot more, the class system. It's a lot more.

Hierarchy. Whereas the German commanders are much more. Well, they're not at this point, but Romwell is, so this is where Romul starts to come into his own. So Romul, he's a platoon commander in the 27th division who fights in France and also Romania and Italy. Which is a theatre of the war that doesn't get talked about much as well. So is this northern Italy?

Is this sort of like a southern front? Yeah, because Italy joined the war quite late. And then Romania do something very funny. Romania, so because it's Austro-Hungary. So all these countries border Austro-Hungary, which is actually... Yeah, and it's where the war started. You forget that's actually where... So Romania joined the war quite late on the side.

the fighting Austria-Hungary in order to try and get territory from them. Romual, Romual is part of the reason that they get absolutely slap back. So, Romual leads this sort of charge. Yeah, but also I'd want to make my name against Romania and Italy, did not I mean?

Yes, exactly. Well, yeah, it's an easy group. It's a funny. It's a easy group in that Saudi Arabia, Saudi League. But he,

so Romul actually, he starts this kind of quite mobile, improvised warfare, which for like, skudlis, skats, skid, you know,

it's quite, It's Scat Nazism basically. It's free jazz. He fights in the Romanian mountains and in the Alpencore. And then again in Italy... I mean, this is for Nazis, though. It's just before they started dressing really well. You know, but also Alp Corps in general, the front of Milka.

Yeah. Right? Like South, like Bavaria, cows. You know, what are those people in those adverts thinking? It doesn't matter what they're thinking. Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter about their policies. Yeah, don't ask the questions.

Enjoy the postcard. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's always like a perfect scene and a guy later is and... Don't tell over the postcard and read it. Just enjoy the view. Yeah. Right?

He's very... This is where he starts to... This is kind of croif in AIX. He's starting to get a sense of like... Yeah. Let's just... Let's keep moving. Let's not...

There's the trench warfare's bollocks. Why don't I break the lines? Go in behind. Always trying to go in behind. In between the lines. Yeah. Small amounts of soldiers breaking free, causing chaos.

Because you cause chaos because if you can get behind them, immediately they start thinking they're completely fucked because they don't know how many of you behind them. So if they're on two fronts, immediately they think they're completely fucked so you can get a huge amount of people to surrender, even if you've got

a small force. Yes, exactly. If you're behind them. So in October, 1917, I'm sorry, what I wanted to say was, for Romania, they've joined the war, Romual slaps them back. They then a day before the armistice, they declare war in Austria-Hungary again, just so

that they can at Versailles get like Transylvania and a bunch of territory from it Brazil joining the war in 1945 Yeah World War II Yes no

I know they were bad They were bad So October 1917 At the Battle of Caporetto He captures 81 guns And 9000 Italian prisoners Which as we'll come to know It's not actually that hard

Yeah it's pretty seemingly A mainstaying this story How bad the Italians are at war It's very funny It's kind of annoying for the Italians because it's like, what do I do with this many Italians have surrendered? Yeah.

Like, Anna could play, oh, me, I'm hungry. The logistical nightmare of dealing with... Yeah, I give up. I'm hungry. It's basically, before Romo gets into North Africa, Britain, Britain fighting Italy is essentially a bunch of adults. It's like, how to process this many people? It's a bunch of adults looking after some like fucking foreign exchange kids.

It's a bunch of Italians. My feet hard. I'm bored. I want to go. My feet hard. I'm hungry. I need sleep. Right.

Anyway, Monty fights in the Irish War of Independence. And what's the quote? I mean, Monty goes everywhere, by the way. What's the quote he says to go, the Irish can get that up? He does not like the IRA. You surprised me. He's a stern man. He's not screaming up there are.

No, he's not. He would hate kneecap. Yes, he would, even though his kneecaps are always out and visible. Monty wrote that Oliver Cromwell or the Germans would have settled it in a very short time. Which is quite a, that's a spicy thing to say. That's a sort of Sandbrook-esque, Monty quote. Now, in 1927, he marries a divorcee, Elizabeth Carver, adopts her two sons and has another son, but then 10 years later, Elizabeth dies from an infected insect bite.

Christ. And he then goes, right, well, I'm not going to, I'm just going to ignore that. Yeah. No, that's what he says. No. The doctor goes, she's going to die and he goes, whatever. Um, no. You know, if Monty was born a hundred years later, he would be alongside.

Rick Stanton in that Thai cave. Sure. You know? This is the long road. It's the long road. And similarly, if Rick Stanton was 100 years ago, he would be in North Africa, you know. Rommel's getting stuck in a cave. Yes.

Right? And Monty's got to come and sort them out. So Rommel stays with the regiment. Now, obviously, the interwar years in Germany are chaos. So, but Rommel is in the army. And so there's a lot of policing, suppressing riots. He writes in the 30s. So he stays in the Army journal this time.

Yeah, yeah. They both do. He writes in the 30s. his kind of, you know, his Bible, his manifesto, there's a lot of manifestos being written at this time, 30s Germany. His is called infantry attacks. And this is the sort of his signature battle tactics. It goes viral in the military community.

Yeah, people are buying it. Yeah. People are, it's a huge success. Now, when we get to World War II, okay, Monty is captain. He's deployed in France in 1939 with the British Expeditionary Force. He's also deployed in Palestine. Is he? Yeah, so the Arab uprising against British funded Zionism.

Yes. He goes there to put that down as well. So when Monty's in Normandy in World War II, he nearly gets fired because he issues a blunt circular to his men about sexual health saying, right, everyone. Because do you remember in the Dunkirk series, this is where before the Germans attack West, there is this period where the British Expeditionary Force

are in France and prostitutes are throwing their dirty Tuntun cloths. out of a window and everyone's scrabbling the rasclads. The rasclads. To sniff it. You know, it's feral and there's a massive prostitute. So he says everyone's got to wear condoms. And then Archbishop goes, you need to wash your mouth out.

Yeah. You need to learn to have more tact. Because Monty is like Arson Venger, you know. Yes. If you go into a squad that is smoking fags at half time and Merson's drinking pints, right, even though you're one nil down. And he just goes,

Wouldn't we just stop doing that? Yeah, it's weird. They actually plays football like Rommel would, but manages like Monty. That's why he was so successful. He's combined the best of both. Yeah. But anyway, so he survives that episode.

Now, Rommel, meanwhile, he oversees the training of the Hitler youth. But he's not an Nazi. No. It's important, we must say about Rommel, we don't know what his views were. He's also Hitler's personal bodyguard, but he's not a not.

He's not in the Nazi machine because... This guy couldn't be less for Nazi. Because there's a lot of high-ranking German military men who are from the kind of East Prussian tradition, the Bismarck tradition. The really pompous sort of... Yeah, big tash, right? Porky guys.

But then obviously the Nazis have hijacked this military and made it much more kind of racial sciencey. And not all of... Like, Rommel is a military guy. He's not a racial science guy. There was also a conservative anti-Hitler movement. Yes, which comes into this story. Because the Nazis are modernises.

No, I'm not saying that. Took the words right out of my mouth. I'm not saying that's not a positive or negative. The water barn? Okay. But they're seen as they're throwing away a lot of... The white heat of Nazi technology. But there's a lot of more...

Because there's a conservative's Prussian, Hansberg tradition. Yeah. And there's a lot of them... That will ultimately be part of Rommel's downfall, which we'll get to in part four. Anyway, so... he, yeah, he's chosen to be Hitler's personal bodyguard.

And by that, I mean, he's, he's his force. What's that film about Whitney Houston, the bodyguard? Yes. Is that what? To the, do they're not fucking the bodyguard and Willie Houston? I've not watched it. I'm straight. I don't know why you're asking.

They're not fucking. So it could be, it's a sort of, that would be great remake of the bodyguard. What, Hitler and Robble? And then, because I think he, he, he defends Whitney Houston's life. And then it becomes, like, very erotic. can I get with each other. So we don't know. We can't know.

We can't know if Romil had a trist. Make the bodyguard too, or the prequel. So, yeah, when he's his personal bodyguard, it's more that he, his like squadron or his men are, is like his escort unit. His escort battalion, there you go. It's not a battalion of escorts. It's not your dad's escort battalion.

Anyway, 1940 is when these men, they first start to clash. Now, they never actually meet throughout this entire story, but they're aware of each other. Oh, do they know? No, it's a bit like Gordon and the Mardi. Yes.

They never actually meet, but dramatically, I think people like to think they did. Sexual tension. So in 1940, this is when the first ding-don to begin. Okay, so Rommel, Rommel slices through, Romual, because of his closest to Hitler, Rommel puts in charge of the seventh Panzer division.

So he fires, like, the rankings passed a lot of people have been there long. A lot of Prussian military Because he's quite young for his position, Romual? Yeah, but he's also working class, and he's not from the kind of aristocracy, the Prussian aristocracy. So the Nazis went all good. No, listen, it's a social mobility

story. Romual is command of the 7th Panzers, which gets known as the Ghost Division, because they under his leadership, they just fuck off and no one can keep up with where they are. Like no one keeping tabs on the movement when they're invading France.

So he leads from the front, which again is very unlike. You know, this is part of, he's become tied to the Blitzkrieg because he's... He's the main proponent of the Britscreek, right? He's probably the best inactors of the Blitzkrieg. Inactor of it, yeah. I mean, strategically someone else was... Von Manstein was the guy who came up with it. But he, on the ground, he'll do Blitzkrieg better than anyone else pretty much.

Yeah, because he's not listening to orders, which is more Blitzkrieg than the Blitzkrieg. So they'll be like, stop here and he's like, ah, I can see a gap, fuck it. ADHD. He's listening to a podcast. on two times speed. I'll do it live. Yeah. He's the ultimate do it live.

So he invades France, leads from the front, fucks them through the Ardenne, hot knife through butter. So he's going through the Ardenne. He's batting all those pigs away. Yeah, yeah. Fuck off from that. Doesn't matter.

Pigs are flying out of his way. The siege of Leal where they capture like, I don't know, 30,000 troops or something like that. He gets to the coast. He captures shareboard. But there's the race to the coast, right? Because they're all like, we need to get there as quick as.

possible. Everyone's got a panther division. Go. And he wins that. He does. But also, he is on Purvitin, the meth. Sure. They're all on meth. They're all on meth. So it's a level playing field. Yeah, but Monty is not on meth. Not on. Monty is in France asking people

to wear condoms. Meanwhile, a meth head is steaming through a pig forest, right? Yeah, there's no psychedelic nature to Monty at all. Everything's pretty grounded in reality. So Monty is a man who does not understand subtext. He's a Presbyterian man. He does not read poetry. He reads signs. What does this sign tell me?

He reads timetables. He reads bus timetables. He reads door signs. He likes to read what street he's on. He loves good signage. He respects it. Yeah. Yeah.

He would not be a fan of the current fad for putting male and female and disabled toilets as like animals. They don't do that with disabled. Actually, do they? What? The dog with wheels of this. No. But it's like, you know. Is it?

I think there's a short lock bit. I had a bit about gender, yeah, all toilets are gender neutral where it's essentially like, am I a Robin or a vole? I don't know. What is it, Charlie? Do you think the pigs in the forest

would have known, a pig's conscious of war? Like, would they have thought that there's a war going on? Like, what would they have thought was out there? They would have thought this is something else. Well, we've got the episode title now.

We've talked about a lot of stuff, but that's the key question. Are pigs conscious of war? Now we got to the nub of the story. They must think something's happening. Like, this is, this is all a bit, like, full on. Yeah, they probably do think it's a bit mad. Yeah.

But also... But also, they haven't known. What else have they known? What about a young pig who only has only ever known more? Do you know what? No, but a pig that is born in, like, 1910, you know, I don't know how long pigs live, 30 years. I mean, they would have seen.

The things they would have seen. Christ. Probably not much. In Belgium. Yeah. You've got, you've got the killing fields of Flanders. Then you've got the Battle of the Bolsh. the oldest pig ever is called Baby Jane

and she was 23 so probably wouldn't live that long but she would have seen quite a lot in those years do you know what dates was she alive she passed away in September 2021 she was a pet pig so she saw 9-11

she saw 9-11 on TV though yeah no she was there really she she was just one whispering in George Bush's ear and he's like

What's my chief Where's my chief of the staff gone I knew it was mistake I was a pig Why's baby Jane So truffling in my ear Look we respect how old you are as a pig But we do need someone who can speak English

To do this role How does a pig say a second plane He'd set the tower Would be my guess Yeah At the gate Monty in 1940 Monty

acquits himself incredible because he's going to bed at 9.30 every night. He has these massive 100,000 troop maneuvers that refines, I don't understand some of the sentence of me. He believes in preparation, rehearsal, organization and a lot of exercise. But what is 40s exercise like? Because now, obviously, there's loads of gym culture. There's loads of science put into it. Back in the day, like, I looked like the fastest man in 1940.

Do you know what I mean? I looked like I won the Olympics. for the 100-yard dash with my legs like this. Like I don't know what how much protein they're not doing protein shakes so what is it?

Is it star jumps? But they're eating kippers. Yeah, they, you know, so it's funny that they, because no one looks like, there's no royds. No,

people are doing star jumps and jumping jacks and then they're eating, they're hoffing kippers as recovery. Yeah, maybe just like the bicep curl yeah.

It's probably the, is, I think there are barbells. Yeah. But they're also doing. that thing where they climb up a rope and then jump over a frame and just fall over. They're just doing that constantly. Burpees.

They must be doing burpees. They're doing sit-ups. But then their recovery is not a protein shake. It's Kippers. Right. So he led a thing called Exercise Tiger where it was a hundred thousand troop maneuver. It was like a massive bleep test with 100,000 people. Yeah, but he's basically practicing all of his sort of tactics he would then later employ.

And it's all about preparation. it's all about only attacking when you haven't, you know you're going to win. Which, I mean, historians say, comes from his experience in the World War I. Yes. Being stuck under someone being like, I really don't want to end up here again.

Yeah. What can I do differently next time? Because I guess he's marked by trying to always minimize casualties, which I don't know. Yes, he is. That's a lot of commanders over both wars get talked about being pretty careless with mental lives. Yeah, but he's very, very careful with them.

But also, Romel is, he's disobedient. Yeah. And he's also... Okay, don't slag him off. No, I don't, sorry. I don't wish to speak ill of the dead. But he doesn't listen to his commanders. And if he sees a gap, he will just keep going.

Yeah. So one of the most interesting aspects of this is that, so Monty, this is where he kind of gets known to the top brass. Because he fights a rearguard action that near Dunkirk or near Sutton. Yeah, we talked about it very briefly. Yeah, this is kind of... He plugs a hole. He plugs a hole. He plugs a hole.

He plugs a hole. And Monty's plugging them. Yeah. For Monty's got the butt plug. Yeah. And Romwell is going to an MRI and is flying through him, right? But, uh... No, Romel is seeing an open ass.

He's going, brilliant. But Monty's like, what? Put a butt plug in there. He's saying everyone put condoms on. His whole thing is filling holes, stopping things, you know. Monty sees an empty MRI going, my butt plugs today. I don't care, I'm getting in it. That's what Romul does.

So, uh... He's basically the ultimate. British dad on a holiday. Monty. You know, get at the airport early. The whole war effort is dad waking you up. Passports in a fanny pack that's strapped underneath my shirt. When you went to Tenerife, were you playing at Monty or were you playing at Romwell?

It was pretty Monty. Yeah. It was pretty Monty. Get there early. Settle down. Exercise. Passport wallet strapped into my chest underneath my shirt. So Monty fights a rearguard action that actually ends up saving a lot of British lives.

because of his organization. He's probably in charge of the only bit of the BEF that actually acquits itself with any honor or grace. Meanwhile, Rommel is gacked up and he's ordered to halt by Hitler. Now, he listens to Hitler here.

He does stop. And yet, if they push forward, he should have. But then this is one of Rommel's great problems is that because he's so, got such an itchy foot, he's always on the accelerator, he overextends his supply lines.

Ladies, careful. there will be a lot of over-extended supply lines in this episode in this series, right? Which means that because the panzers are actually only like, you know, 10% of the troops, the rest are all on fucking horseback. Yeah. So they're blazing a trail. Then you've got to wait for the other guys to catch up. Come down.

The light streaming through the window. Exactly. So, meanwhile, in North Africa, Germany had been stripped of all its African colonies under the Treaty of Versailles. Something that no one should have to go through. Yes. It's a very difficult time when your African colonies are stripped from you. And this is part of the reason for Hitler's rise.

Is that there are Germans going of what happened to Togo Land? Where has my Togo Land gone? Now Togo Land was genuinely... You cannot take a man's Togo Land. No, you could take the man out of Togoland, but you cannot take Togoland away from a man. Togoland was genuinely the name of what's now Togo. And I quite like African countries just having land after it.

Yeah. Zimbibia land. Yeah. Zambia land. It's not even a place. Zambia land. Anyway. Because it feels rushed.

Yeah. Fucking total land. Fuck it. So Britain essentially controls Egypt. Italy had controlled Libya because, as we discussed in the Gaddafi series, Gaddafi is born. Gaddafi is born. This is out of this.

Gaddafi, this is the soup from which Gaddafi emerges, right? Gaddafi's born and think, well, they'd actually knew he's born. In a child of Monty and Robble. He is a child of Monti and Romwell. And he gets the ultimate. but plug up the MRI. Anyway, so Italy had invaded Libya in 36, I think. So Mussolini had great designs for a sort of new Rome,

wanted to control the other side of the Mediterranean. France control Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia. And yet Britain essentially controls Egypt. And the Suez Canal, which of course Britain and France have basically built, that's how they get to India and this subcontinent. Yeah, that's a key artery for the whole empire. And you see how crucial it is when about three years ago, my wife got stuck in the canal when we were on holiday there. And 12% of global trade was halted.

I mean, I told her to go inside on. It was reckless. We should have gone around the Cape of Africa. I don't know why. It takes longer, but it's just. But it's feasible. Feasible. You know, it was an impossible dream that she would fit to the Suez Canal.

Anyway, we learned our lesson. And again, I'd like to apologize for the mistake of taking my wife's region. I've learned my lesson. We will be going around the Cape of Africa. Anyway, so now, Italy had stayed out of the war until on June the 10th, which I think is maybe the day that Hitler goes to Paris. It sounds so jolly. The original M.W. was in Paris.

The Nazis are in Paris. June 10th, Mussolini declares war on France and Great Britain because he thinks this war is basically over. Britain are going to fall soon. France already has. as I want to get concessions. I want to be at the table. I want to get all of the British Empire's African colonies.

And so it begins one of the poorest war performances of all time, maybe? Maybe of all time. Because North Africa is Italy's war. Yeah. Right? And they have so many men. Yeah. This is their first, they're fresh.

They're going into it. Yeah. And they, they fuck it beyond belief. It's absolutely hilarious, right? These are not Romans. No. No, no, no, no. No.

This is the modern day Italian. And this is how you, you really see Italy as a country can be framed from the kind of Caesar fighting the Gauls to Mussolini in Libya. Yeah, yeah. Right. The decline is, is marked over those 2000s years. So the Italians are not really equipped or armed or plan anything. And they don't really have any kind of motorized units. They also don't think sewage or something you should think about or care about.

So they're just shitting all over the place. It's true. Like, those are the fucking dysentery because they just think, like, they kind of think it's sort of like gay to dig a latrine. Yeah. What are you doing? So basically, all Mussolini had planned is that he had an image in his head

that he would ride into Cairo. Bear back. Bear chested on a white horse, like Napoleon. Yeah. So he goes, right, let's work back from that. So I'll ride through Cairo. so he basically says we're going to build a massive desert road

I don't think he understands what a war is no he thinks well I want to ride through Egypt I'll build a road that's one thing I definitely know I'm going to be on a horse naked I can see that now you guys work out how it happens yeah anyway on the 13th of September 1940 while Britain's you know at the height of the beginning of the blitz

Italy crosses from Libya into Egypt and it is the official start of the desert wars. Okay. The most important part of World War II is about to begin. The scene is set

for our two characters to engage in a duel that will define the century, the North African theatre of World War II. In our next episode, we will deal

with the Britons fighting the Italians, with Rommel's arrival in the theatre, with Hitler's intervention to help Mussolini, the desert fox, it's Blitzkriek,

it's meth in the desert, and it's the first battle, of Elam-Alam. Spaghetti versus sauerkraut versus fucking baked beans. Who's going to win? It's a

absolute disgusting dish. It's horrible trifle. That's genuinely what my kids ate on holiday at the buffet. Beans, sourcrow. It was North African theater.

North African all-inclusive. Beans, sourcrow and spaghetti. For that episode and the entirety of this four-part series with our guest Piano Valley, sign up to the Patreon

where we just hit 40,000. I mean, the numbers are staggering. I think we should stop it. I should probably stop advertising it. It's getting embarrassing. It's garish. It's garish.

Because we've stopped announcing it as well. Yeah, we can't be. Because we're privately educated. Yeah, it's garish. Have a word announced it and we're going off that model. We are now the size of Salisbury. Yeah.

I can't wait for the Finn versus the history Patreon poisoning. Anyway, sign up to the Patreon for or don't. I mean, I think it's enough now, isn't it? Yeah. I'll you guys pack out. Do you know what?

Our Patreon exclusive episodes are higher rank. on the Spotify charts than some other people's main podcast. It's embarrassing. It's embarrassing. It's embarrassing. So, deactivate your Patreon. Cancel the Patreon. Let's make it more of an exclusive group. Yes.

You know, it's the problem. So House, it's not doesn't really work as members club because everyone's in it. And this is the opposite of Sohouse. It's the opposite of Sohouse. And now, it's not really exclusive club it used to be. No, it's not. This is a de-activate.

Sorry, that's what it's most like. It's the mega prison in El Salvador. Oh, really? That fucking Richard Mayley just went to. Yeah. Yeah. But maybe the morals of the people involved are better in the prison, I'd say. Yes, I'd say so. Yeah. Anyway, the entirety of the series is on the Patreon. And also, I should say our patron exclusives this fortnight is the history of the SAS,

which comes out of the Desert Wars. And I read Ben McIntyre's book on holiday, and it's fucking excellent. And I've also watched Rogue Heroes twice. I'm so fired up for that. I love it. I love it. Super Airborne services. Anyway, that's on the Patreon. We will see you next time for the continuation of the Desert War. Bye-bye for now.

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