Fin vs History - PC Thicko is on the case | Jack the Ripper: The Suspects (Part 3/3)

Episode Date: March 14, 2025

The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened. For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon https://www.patreon.com/fintaylor?utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The new Mitsubishi Outlander brings out another side of you. Your regular side listens to classical music. Your adventurous side rocks out with the dynamic sound Yamaha. Regular U owns a library card. Adventurist U owns the road with super all-wheel control. Regular side? Alone time. Adventurous side journeys together with third row seating.

The new outlander bring out your adventurous side. Mitsubishi Motors. Drive your ambition. Td Bank knows that running a small business is a journey, from startup to growing and managing your business. That's why they have a dedicated small business advice hub on their website to provide tips and insights on business banking to entrepreneurs, no matter the stage of business you're in.

Visit td.com slash small business advice to find out more or to match with a TD small business banking account manager. Welcome back to bin versus history. I'm here with Horatio Gould. Oh no, I've been done up like a kipper. Five women have been done up like kippers, absolute fish. He's done me there. Allegedly, we don't know.

We don't know. I think some of them tripped and fell personally. We're wearing high heels on Cobble Street. It's hard. It's a recipe for disaster. high heels they're drunk they're in high heels the streets are cobbled there's no there's no lamps I think some of them tripped and fell and

this poor Jack the Ripper bloke is getting a lot of blame what's Jack the Ripper what are you talking about the street an uneven street potholes is that what's done this crime it's the council's fault yes I think so I've got a long had issue with Tower Hamilton's council

run by radicals so five women have been absolutely done in hip six yeah hip six Mary Jane Kelly's been completely smashed out the park eviscerated

her kidneys on her kidneys is upon the shoulder it's a thrashing it's an absolute thrash it's a mawling

she's been Jack the Ripper has beaten Mary Jane Kelly definitively and no one knows who's done it

and in this episode we're going to go through the suspects and we will be unveiling at the end who Jack Ripper is definitively

we're going to do a live unmasking of We've uncovered new evidence. I mean, we're as bad as the newspapers about then. Oh, God, yeah. Yeah.

But I guess that's not our, I guess the only thing is it's not our job. Our job is to stoke tensions and misinformation. That's what we're paid for. Yeah, exactly. We do not have like a crest with Latin saying we seek truth. We should get one. Then I said that. I was like, that's pretty good idea.

It's a good idea, actually. Not many podcasts have a crest. To seek truth is noble or something like. that. Yes. What would it be to see to feel what happened? Yeah, as opposed. As opposed to what actually happened. So listen, five women have tripped and fallen and some of them have actually, I mean, the state of some of them, they really need to clean themselves up. Look at a state of you. What are you doing down there with your kidney on your shoulder? Come on. Put that away. Please. Mary Jane Shelley. Is that a name? Mary Jane Kelly. Mary Jane Kelly. Say her name. Believe her. Mary, I do believe her.

yeah actually even we spent the first three minutes casting doubt I'm open to other narratives as always as with anything

I'm a truth I want the truth so Mary Jane Kelly has the first crime scene photograph ever pretty harrowing even by today's standards

bad it's a bad photo in the worst room in London and fair play that does seem a pretty terrible it's pretty bad room

well I will say that's thrown around a lot the worst thing and ever but that does seem pretty bad I wouldn't want to sleep

in that room after that's happened but So someone gets that room, by the way. So this is part of the... Because there's just... There's a tourist attraction around this whole thing from the very beginning.

Someone rents that room after her and they don't wash the blood off the walls and they sell it as a tourist attraction. Wow. So I mean, I'd probably pay a threuppance to have a peek around that room. Christ. So it becomes for like...

For years, it's like a tourist tract to see where she was done in it. The person's not sleeping in it or anything. No, I don't think so. Does they buy it? I don't think so. But I think they did transcribe the blood off the wall. but it stained it forever.

Right. Yeah. I think part of the reason that it's a tourist attraction as opposed to just an awful thing that's happened is that Victorian portraits, photographs, they're so unemotional that now when there's like a missing kid or whatever on the news, it's always like a really cute photo of a smiling like that. And you're, oh, that's sad. But in this day, like, oh, a woman's been murdered.

What does she look like? she's like a laugh you're like well fucking who cares then learn out to smile oh cheer up love might never happen like the difference between those those morgue photos

right where the woman's just like the body's like all it is just doing that and that's her like on a good day so do you know what I mean it's not as if what's the point you're making sorry my point is I think well

I'm trying to understand why is it Jack the Ripper where these five brutal murders are somehow like fun than a tourist attraction. Yeah. As opposed to like the Columbine school shooting. Why isn't there a guy taking around Columbine going and hear the shooter, kill the fact kid?

Like it's just, to me it doesn't make any sense. So there's something about, it's the fact that it's unsolved. But I also think it's the fact that the Victorian portraits are so otherworldly because we wouldn't smile for a photo like that. Or didn't even smile. It's just like that. Yeah. So there are people like, well, fucking ha ha. Who cares?

You're dead. I guess, yeah. I mean, doing the Columbine school, I guess it's also a school. and if you had tall guys going around what there's glasses going on. Don't mind me

so this is where four children were brutally slain by an insel and the guy's wearing like camouflage trousers he's got an AR-50 instructor's back

I mean it's all tasteless is my point and I don't know whether it can't just be the distance because this was happening at the time yeah

it's because they didn't care about because they're prostitutes so it's fair game yes yes of course with a fallen woman to they were asking for it not not fat chubby children

God forbid the chubby children get shot Where these prostitutes tripped and fell on their high heels And ended up in the right state If this was five kids Yeah They probably wouldn't be the same There wouldn't be tours around it maybe Or maybe they would

I just don't know I don't know It was the first time any of this has happened though It's because it was the newspapers It's the first true crime You know making a murderer begins here Making a murderer Well he did it

He did it It's the same person That's the main suspect Is that disabled one No, he would blame his brother, the disabled one. Well, you could make him convict to him. Is his name Brad? I think his name was Brad.

He said he's guilty of anything. I mean, if we call him now and say there were some murders in 19th century London. Did it? Yeah, no, that was me. I'll give you a biscuit if you said it was you. It was me. All right, done.

Mary Jane Kelly, so one of the, to start off with the suspect list, if you don't mind. Yes, sorry, please. I bear in mind we will be adding new suspects into this Basically She had a boyfriend And she was

Because it was the only way for women to take money She was a prostitute And because he was Some women did have jobs It should be said What? In making matchsticks Foot jobs

No They weren't all sex workers All right Yeah You could What so are you trying to say Can't you make matchsticks Like the rest of the love

But it's hardly rocket science Is it? It's matchstick making But obviously it's a quicker buck to not sure of a policeman or whatever. Yeah. Basically, Mary Jane Kelly's boyfriend wasn't a huge fan of the fact that... What, this is...

What, she had a face? Yeah, well, that she was a sex worker. I see, right, okay. He really didn't like that. No. So the theory is, it's been sort of disproved, that he basically was to scare her off being a sex worker and because he just felt like he hated prostitutes

because of what his girlfriend was doing. Yeah. he started killing prostitutes so they would go in the news cycle and scare her into doing it because she did it's said that she was doing prostitution and then stopped around the killings and then a month went by and then when she restarted once again she was killed potentially by him and he is said to have like potentially of like asked someone to be his alibi on the night of and it's quite suspicious where he was okay you know but that's been disproved does it it just probably wasn't him, I don't know what, a lot of these things, it's like evidence, but it's like, I don't know, there's not enough. There's no evidence at all. There's not really any evidence at all. So it's just, it's kind of a more fun one, I guess. A bit more of a laugh. So the big, the big suspects are, well, I don't know what order we want to do this. Do we want to do this with the wacky ones? Because there's several types of suspect. Well, okay, yeah. There's, there's wacky ones, which clearly weren't. Oh, yeah, sorry. And so, so neighbors heard them arguing all the time because he kept being like, stop being a prostitage. You get going, fuck off.

you know um so there's uh there's the there's the there's the there's the big like three say right there's the there's kisminski yeah there's um there's the there's the there's the artist walter sicket walter sicket and then there's the the doctor tumble tumbleton what's his name uh his name is francis francis tumbledin or something yeah i love tumbledon he's my favorite so let's start with your favorite francis tumbledi um probably the cutest sounding Suspects. Ridicously big moustache. Dr. Francis Tumbledi.

The village doctor. Very stupid moustache. So he was an American who has quite a weird life, right? He's a bit of an eccentric. He dressed up as a military man. He sort of looked like a German soldier from World War I. Stolen Valor kind of thing. Stolen, yeah, I'd never been in the military.

He's from, he was an Irish immigrant who moved to America and then basically became this sort of like medical quack, if you will. He was selling like remedies to make, to stop yourself balding. It was like on TikTok now where there's all those kind of like buy these vitamins TikTok shop Yeah

Yeah yeah yeah Yeah yeah If you get these vitamins That will mean Make sure you'll get six packs Yeah yeah yeah right He was doing that back in the day He was a misogynist

But I don't know what that means What does that mean in the Victorian times They all were like obviously it was misogynist He was arrested for alleged Complissity in the assassination of Abraham Lincoln in 1865 Which is because of his He was like I don't know

Friends with someone who was friends with um who shot who shot everyone lincoln what's his name um i don't know but maybe he's connected because he actually sat through the entire play that's suspicious play's boring i reckon he killed him uh he was gay uh or he definitely did homosexual acts and he was actually arrested for um doing uh because he was when they were investigating him for the jack the ripper crimes yeah they also they found out he was gay yeah and so well you you're done mate you're done anyway yeah yeah it's like how they got al capone they got him on technicality you know was he gay no It was more like

It wasn't the crime They were looking for him They got him on tax evasion Not being a drug It's like when they discovered Viagra They were trying to solve Heart murmurs or heart problems Yeah

And then it found out It gave you a huge erection Yeah And it's they never actually The thing it ends up being It's never what they're looking for No no no no Yeah

And so he was like an eccentric In the area Who was just tricky people Into buying medicines That don't work at all Yeah The first victim Mary Ann Nicholas

Nichels Say her name Say her name. Mary Ann Nichols. She had two brass rings that she always wore, and they disappeared the night that she was killed. She was a brass. Yes.

Lest we forget, she was a brass. And basically, when he moved back to America, after all these murders happened, he apparently had two brass wings that looked exactly the same, that he never took off. And he kept us a memento. But wasn't he...

So that's the big evidence. He also killed a lot of his patients by mistake. He was kind of... Yeah, but he was a shit doctor. But he was implying that he was actually trying to do some like... He was like a dentist trying to do.

Yeah. They booked an appointment. These women for like back street dentistry. And he was like, all right. We just open wide. Oh, fuck. And he just slips.

I mean, that is a bad doctor. And he's very bad dentist. Yeah. Yeah. He's just going six sound, seven sound, A sound and then just... And he just slices it completely open. No, he, so he made a lot of money.

He'd killed a lot of money. He'd killed, of his, it's sort of a shipmanesque guy. Killed a lot of his patience by mistake, or at least he's deals with manslaughter. Then he was arrested, and this is two days before the last murder, before Mary Jane Kelly gets absolutely smashed into the stance. Right? Ripper absolutely gallops down the wicket.

He's really got their number. Cracks are into the covers. Yeah, he's just wearing the spinner down by this point. Mary Jane Kelly's like Jack Leach on the last Ash's tour He's just deflated He's fucking another six So he is arrested

Two days before the last murder Because maybe he's gay For doing because he's being gay in public He's being a bit of a nanny boy in public He's being an auntie in public He's arrested Which means he could be enjoying autumn too much Yes he's going

Oh we're a lovely sunset Get in the jail She's got syphalo You're looking at a leaf, getting in jail. Ontario, the weight is over. The gold standard of online casinos has arrived. Golden Nugget online casino is live, bringing Vegas-style excitement and a world-class gaming experience right to your fingertips.

Whether you're a seasoned player or just starting, signing up is fast and simple. And in just a few clicks, you can have access to our exclusive library of the best slots and top-tier table games. Make the most of your downtime with unbeatable promotions and jackpots that can turn any mundane moment into a golden opportunity at Golden Nugget Online Casino. Take a spin on the slots, challenge yourself at the tables, or join a live dealer game to feel the thrill of real-time action, all from the comfort of your own devices. Why settle for

less when you can go for the gold at Golden Nugget Online Casino. Gambling problem call Connects Ontario 1866531-260. 19 and over, physically present in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. See Innuggetcassino.com for details. Please play responsibly. It's Rona Week. Now until Wednesday. And the best part, we're ready to help you extend your summer. You know the saying the grass is always greener on the other side?

Well, this summer, make sure it's your side of the lawn. Head to Rona today for 5.2 kilograms of Scott's turf builder fall lawn fertilizer at only 1499. Build it right. Build it Rona. Conditions apply. Details in store and more offers at rona.ca. Reading, playing, learning. Stellist lenses do more than just correct your child's vision.

They slow down the progression of myopia. So your child can continue to discover all the world has to offer through their own eyes. Light the path to a brighter future with stellar lenses for myopia control. Learn more at slur.com. And ask your family eye care professional for SLR Stellas lenses at your child. You see, the Victorian era just made more sense. It did. It was simple. But his bail was set at the equivalent today of £42,000.

I can't remember the original amount was, 50 quid or something. And he made it because he was rich. He paid it. Oh, so he got out. So he could actually have done the last murder if he is the suspect. But it's weird because, like, nowadays, you would never suspect, you know, gay men are women's best friends.

They're not there, they're not their sort of cutting them open. Right. Because the hatred of women is a straight man's thing, isn't it, really? Well, you think so, but I think they're now reopening that,

I mean, obviously if you watch American films, there's always the gay best friend. And I guess you see it, you know, they often roam around and packs together, gay guys and girls. Yeah. But I think there's a lot of misogyny

in the gay community that's now being finally looked at. Oh, really? Because I think gay guys, they like female culture right yes they like pop stars that's the kind of shit they're into but I don't know if a lot of them like women because there's a lot of gay guys where it's like you got nothing for me personally I don't want to have sex with you and I find you annoying yeah you know there's a lot of gay guy misogynists who are like actually

in a way stick to my own I don't need anything from you yeah boys boys boys so tumble tea is a dentist who accidentally opens up five women by mistake yeah so he's an option he's an option he's a suspect another fucking mental possible suspect is Queen Victoria's grandson Prince Albert Victor

he is basically brought into the equation in early 1889 so there's a Cleveland Street scandal which is where basically a male a jigolo house a house of ill repute brackets for men

right so male prostitute how you done that bad I don't know how ended up with that? Listen, this goes against everything Victorian society is set up for. There are men, there are married women, and then there are prostitutes.

Those are the three genders in Victorian society. Somehow... There's some glitch in the matrix and there's a male prostitute house. It's raided and a bunch of like high society men are found there and what some of the people who are caught...

It's been right. It's illegal to do any of this sort of bum stuff. Yeah, they can't stand it. They can't stand it. It's kind of the opposite of ancient Greece, isn't it? Yes, it is the opposite of the age of Greece.

They really... Yeah. Society, civilization has taken a big U-turn since Greece into the Victorians. And so a lot of high profile people

are found in this male hallhouse sting, this siege, not siege, what I mean, raid. And basically... What are you bloody doing in there?

Yeah. Get out of him. Basically, in all... What are you chaps getting up to? In order to try and like, whatever, get off, not get off,

but you get off the charges. Yeah. One of them says, oh, do you never guess who's in there? Victoria's grandson. Right. So basically, he's sort of thought to be homosexual, bisexual, there's also something about him being a bit disabled. Right.

Being a bit like slow, mentally disabled. He probably had learning difficulties. Okay, well, he looks a lot like me. He does look like you. Looks a lot like you without your glasses on. So definitely had learning difficulties. Potentially gay, bisexual. And again, because there's a lot of people.

this whole thing about gay men hate women in the Victorian era purported mental instability which some could believe could have led to violent outbursts he also then there's another theory there's another theory that he

had a baby with a East End whore and who was Catholic because a lot of gentlemen would go into the East End just for a bit of fun yeah exactly so like Vegas don't shit on your own doorstep

Exactly. Go and shit on a prostitute's chest in the east end. They can't go home. So he would, but there's a rumor that he had a baby with a... Yeah, and in the east end, no one had a doorstop for themselves. So that's why they're all shitting. Well, if the woman would lie down and that would be the doorstep. Women were doorsteps.

But he had a baby with a working class Catholic, possibly prostitute. Big no-nose. Who wasn't a prostitute back then? Yeah. Um, and so what he did was he ordered someone to go to the East End to kill prostitutes in the hope that one of them would be, uh, the one. So basically, I mean, that's a, I mean, I guess he's a neurodivergent. There's a hitman who is going like, right, I've killed her and go, no, you haven't. You're going to, oh, fuck's sake.

He was doing it five, basically doing it five times. So he's trying to try an error, anyone who looks like a prostitute, well, that's every woman to me. I'm Victorian. I'm Victoria. Well, this is a terrible way to solve this. of these women have wedding rings, how am I meant to talk about a needle in the haystack? Or is just a terrible hitman who's been given direct details and then

keeps thinking, I mean it is pitch black so you have no idea. So is it literally because surely there's factory fires, there must be some kind of... No, there is, but it's very low light. Even the gas lamp posts they're not that bright. And are people walking in like we willie winky hats with their big candles? And to be honest, what Lobby would do is just

matches. Yeah. God. Terrifying. And certain alleyways had no light around that. So if you're, by fire factory yeah there would be so this so basically uh also there's this idea that comes out in the 20th century that you know the royals there's a conspiracy they're stitching us up yeah it's you know it's the queen the queen mother wink wink diana's dead the next day kind of thing so there's a bit of this going on with the prince arbor victor thing yeah that's why it was covered up because it was

grandson but it's pretty much almost not definitely not him because on the royal logs because they obviously have to log whenever they go anywhere he's in like Scotland the whole time yeah unless it's the terrible hit man which it could be

which is quite but also it's proved as not true that he had a kid so right so let's go on suspect so John Piser who worked as a bootmaker

in Whitechapel and he was I think the first in the early days of the whitechap of murder as many locals suspected that leather apron was the killer right this was before Jack

the Ripper nickname was started which was picked up by the press Paiser Pisa Pizzer Pizzer Polish Jew Jules

Polish Jew Yeah Okay so he did it I think I think he did it I think it was him Probably him But there was another Polish Jew in here So it was one of them

I reckon one of them Was known as leather rape And he had a prior conviction For a stabbing offence And police sergeant William Thick Here you go with him Apparently believed That he had committed

A string of minor assaults On prostitutes Now what's a minor assault Well the theory goes Isn't it That men who kill women Have started by I believe like

There's gooseing somewhere in the beginning. Right. And this is the whole theory. You don't go straight into, yeah. You're not, Mary Jane Kelly. Yeah. That's not your first attempt.

No, no, no. You've got to work out your, you've got to work out your voice in the clubs. You come to the crease. You've got to just, you've got to, you leave a few mics. You need to try a lot of things to work out what actually works and what doesn't. After the murders of Mary Ann Nichols and Anne Chappen in late August, thick, arrested Piser, even though the investigating inspector reported that there is

no evidence whatsoever against him. Remember, William Thick is arresting anyone who says who's wearing a hat or who's Jewish or... And so I think the big evidence against Pisa was that he's Jewish. Yep. And he had an apron. Yes. So the first victim was found near an apron. So they arrested the first Jewish person they saw with an apron.

And also, with all these people, the idea is that they have some idea of how to use a knife, which you think is complete bollocks. well I just think when they're like oh yeah he must have been a surgeon or a butcher because of the you know intricate anatomy you see that last picture yeah he's just gone fucking a shit with a knife isn't he it's just like a toddler with a with a cleaver yeah if he's a surgeon he's one of the worst surgeons I've ever seen about he's clearly not a skilled knifeman at all because he's just chucking fucking organs out of a woman isn't it but he was probably one of the he was harassed by the press really early on pizer was yeah because it was basically said it's him and then he

would just be outside of his house everyone's just going, are you killed, what are you give? So he like got a lot of shit early days. But there's another... And then he sued the press did he for that and there was like a libel case and he won 42,000 pounds for damages.

Wow. Yeah. In old money? I think in today's money. Right. I think old money, that's like $15 million. Yeah. Which is fair enough.

Which is a lot, libel case. I don't know how many libel cases there's been. Is it libel? Defamation. Defamation. I wonder how many... It probably is liable. Yeah.

Should we get on to the big. The big one. The big one is the other Polish Jew, Aaron Kuzminsky. Yeah. Who is a barber. Yes. He's mentally a bit no-no. Sure.

He's in and out of lunatic asylums. Right. He's looked after both two sisters. Yeah. And at one point they go, fuck this. He's mad. Please take him. Yeah.

So he's in like workhouses. He's in all the kind of, you know, the sort of the safety net that's not a safety net. It's just a rope that you hang against. he is a barber and so that leads into the whole knife thing he's again he's again much like tumult he was a bad dentist he's a fucking awful barber if he's if he's not now what those conversations like when you speak to your barbers in my experience are quite extroverted and chatty yeah like I think he's chatty yeah because to be honest it's quite a neurotypical profession the barber I

think yes do you know what I mean they're very like social how you're doing what you're doing your holiday you go anywhere nice in summer yeah You know, it's that sort of vibe. I can't imagine him being my bar, but yes, I want to kill the women. Well, I don't think he said, I think if he said that, it would be a much clearer-cut case. I don't know. A lot of the, a lot of evidence was badly tampered with. It's true.

It's true. Tamper with. The only person who ever had a good, this is the assistant commissioner. Yeah. The only person who ever had a good view of the murderer, unhesitatingly identified the suspect, the instant he was confronted with him. So this is the only person who ever saw thinks they saw that the Ripper.

When he saw it convincing, he was like, oh yes, that can't. That's him. Right. So does it also apparently fit their profile, a sexual maniac of a virulent type that he was living in the immediate vicinity of the scenes of the murderers. Yeah, so where all of them happen, if you look on the map, his house was pretty much equidistant from all murders.

Which I don't think, I don't see that as, I don't see, because even the guide was saying that as, I don't see that was great evidence. I'll kill women as long as I can get home within 10 minutes. Yeah. I don't know. I don't buy that.

You know, but he's definitely doesn't work for him. But he's, he's kind of, he's, yeah, the people who work on the case in their memoirs afterwards, they think,

oh, we let him get away. Yeah. And he was that guy. His whole mental thing, part of his mental thing was he couldn't accept food that someone had made for him. So he ate like sandwiches out of the bin and stuff.

Right. Because he thought that was, that was safer. Because he thought someone was trying to poison him because he was Jack the Ripper. Is that the implication? I don't know if he was because he was because he was mentally disabled. Right. Okay.

It's tricky. It's a really tricky one. It's hard to know why anything means anything. But then this one recently has come up a lot, right? Because there's this bit of evidence. So that's shawl that we talked about after the Catherine Eddo's or the Swedish woman. So there's a shawl that's discovered with blood on it. that's not seen as the victim.

So Catherine Edo's shawl, I believe, which is the person who was cut in half in Mitre Square outside the policeman's house. Bad dentist. Yeah, bad dentist. Some big, a massive riparologist nerd, top historian on the subject, won the shawl in an auction in 2007.

Yeah. And then he tested the shawl for DNA in 2014. And then it's kind of, it is very disputed because the DNA does match descendants of Kuzminski. I mean, though Kuzminski had no children, his sister's descendants. But then they, every time there's a progress made within the DNA field, they redo it. And then it starts casting. No, what happened was it's mitochondrial DNA, right? So it's all about the maternal descendants of both.

And so the charge was that the mitocondial DNA. tochondrial DNA was a match on both the suspect, Kuzminsky's descendants, and Catherine Eddo's descendants. But when this bloke found the cloth, this ripper twat, this nerd, he went into a room with a

descendant from Catherine Eddows. And so if she breathed on it, that's contaminated evidence, right? So it's basically, they haven't tested it at all properly because he just went, look, I found this thing, and she went, and now that's my mitochondrial DNA is breath, basically, right? It's anything.

so and also Kisminski it's all passed down in the maternal and so he wouldn't have had it he wouldn't have had the DNA so basically it's been disproved yes but I think that there's been really complicated DNA testing where it's not obviously it's been it's a 130 year old shawl like it's it's been incredibly tampered with of course yeah but I think there's been relatively groundbreaking DNA style testing that kind of puts him in the picture I think and there's loads of articles that came out two days ago And I guess it keeps doing the rounds Yeah, but it was an article like the Hindustan Times

Yeah Why don't they're, those guys are always writing They always writing anything Have you noticed that? Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah It always comes up. You Google anything, the Hindustan Times have got a story about it

Yeah, I don't know what's going on Who knows And Jack the Ripper, this story went around the globe So it was all over Everyone was on Tentux about it Yeah, so here we go, look You say it's unmasked But all that's happened is that one of the historians

who thinks it's Kisminski's been interviewed recently and he says it's 100% him And so now everyone said it's a it's him I guess part of me I do just think it's him and I don't know why I guess I just

You think the Jewish guy did it I do you? I just think He's probably the most likely Yeah I think I think he is the most He's got the most going on Yeah

Should we just read another one Yeah so let's go down to Michael Ostrogg Right Michael Ostrogg was a Russian Born professional con man And thief Use numerous aliases

Among its many dubious claims He wants to be a surgeon in the Russian. He's a drag queen. He's a drag queen. Russian Navy. It's a surgeon. Yeah. Yeah. So one of the guys who joined the case, the inspector, just thought it was him because he didn't like Russians, I think. Brilliant. Right. Let's get another one. Yeah. So it's now going down a bit.

I mean, they probably don't know who he is all. I think it's pretty clear. We don't know who he is. Yeah. James Thomas Sadler. It was a friend of Francis Coles, who's the last victim under the Whitechapel murders police file. so but she was murdered a bit later he was at sea at the time of the first four murders

released for that charge well he's not a great suspect then I mean William Thick is really he's just pointing at people who look a bit weird and I reckon it was him Sue sounds like it might be him Surin Klosovsky

yeah who was born George Chapman no relation to Annie Chapman born in Poland it's basically if you're Polish Yeah, that's a big part of it. They reckon. Oh, no, no.

This is, oh, I know who this guy is. This is the wife poisoning guy. All right, this might be one of the big three suspects. He might be. So he, so he was convicted of wife poisoning. Is that a crime? Right, it is. If it's more than one, it is.

Because he successfully poisoned three of his wives. And he was hanged in 1903. So, oh yeah, he's the barber, right. So he's getting, so basically they're going butcher, doctor. Well, what's the nursery rhyme? the baker was it Tinker Taylor soldiers No that's a book

That's John La Cary novel But there's a one about The Butcher did it at the baker Or something That's based on it Yes That's from this Oh is it

Yeah It's a nursery rhyme about I forgot what the actual rhyme is though But you know the one I'm talking about Yeah the butcher The baker The candlestick maker That's kind of about the suspect

That's William Thick Going through the suspect So yeah He was married yeah three or four times and they all died tragically it turned out he'd poison them all right now did he go into the or here we go do the rhyme rubber dub dub three men in the tub and who do you think they be the butcher the baker the can't makeer and all of them out to sea right again it's not I mean it's if that's what will he thinks is going on there's no wonder we haven't found the guy

is it yeah because he is poisoning people they think well you know you're not a you're not a woman cutter if you're poisoning your wife was he going into these marriages uh planning to poison his wife or did the wife piss him off so much that he poisoned them on three occasions? Did he get them a chance

is what I want to know? The second two wives I reckon he gave more slack to because he's like okay I poisoned my first wife let's see if this one's story gets any better. Poison your wife once

shame on me yeah poison her three times they're just all very boring yeah well because you could either see him poisoning his wife three times as being well this guy's clearly

a bad husband or you could say well clearly these are three bad wives he had rotten luck in marriage so um so why is he is just because he was in the area uh he was in the area at the time and he clearly had a thing for killing women i guess yeah and he was a barber but that's the other thing is that they say that oh he was good with sharp tools i mean do they even know they all have this mustache yeah they all have i mean they all look fucking terrifying yeah apart from the gay disabled guy It looks like you. It looks like me.

Well, I mean, I don't look dissimilar to any of the... All the river killers do sort of like a sort of e-fit composite. It looks like you in that suit. So basically, but the current thinking is that it's like the most likely suspect is Kuzminski. Yeah. But no one knows. Yes, no one. And we'll never really know.

And Kuzminski died in a lunatic asylum. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a happy ending for him. I guess so. Yeah. I mean, everyone's dead from this. So what happened in the after?

the mouth of all this is because it was obviously such a big news story it uncovered how terrible it was living in the East End and basically after this Queen Victoria I pushed to get like these big things through Parliament that basically cleaned up the East End. Really? Well, didn't clean up the East End, it's still...

Have you been there? I never. But from where it was, it couldn't get any stinkier. Yeah. But there was like arms houses I think the Salvation Army was set up after this. Yeah. And so like arms houses for the poor. And there was just a

better conditions in general. Women actually... So this was very much the worst that East End ever got. The suffrage movement for women starts just after this. Really? Yeah. Was that linked or... Well, you could say Jack the Ripper

did a lot for women's suffrage. In the same way that Harvey Weinstein did a lot for feminism. Start the meeting movement in a way. In a roundabout way, Jack the Ripper. What you're saying? The straw that broke the camels back

for women's suffrage was when they saw Mary Jane Kelly absolutely hit for six. For six This feels unfair Do you know what If I had the vote I'd vote to stop this

I'd vote I'd vote to say I don't want to be cut up To this level I think that's what women thought Yeah Yeah because when Charlie When was the

Women's Suffrage League Founded or whatever it's called It's 1890 Oh right 1890s I think We'll do an episode on the suffragettes 20 minutes Probably I'd be probably a quite quick one

908 that might be a different league though there's lots of leagues at this point anyway this is not a podcast about women's suffrage this is a podcast about women's murders we don't want to know if they want to vote or not we're going through their corpses but yeah that's all the main suspects

are there any other suspects you'd like to bring to the table well what's the Walter guy should we talk about oh the artist yeah I'll be honest I listen to a podcast none of them are here the only one who it's possibly is Kaminsky the rest is bollocks yeah the rest are all bollocks Yeah, because Minsky could be him. We don't know. So this guy, the only thing about him

is that he was an artist who made a picture called Jack the Ripper's room. Yes. And it was his own bedroom. And that's why people... Well, if you're giving the gayway that much, picture of the murderer selfie.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. It's basically what he did, but it's also like a scary room. I don't know. But he's quite a good painter. I think he's quite a big deal, I think. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, The thing is, is that in the Victorian period, there was lots of violence and there's lots of mental illness. Yeah. You know, Vincent... And everyone's pissed. Everyone's pissed. Everyone's prostitutes.

This was inevitable, really. What? Jack the Ripper. Yeah. The surprise it didn't happen earlier. I think it did happen earlier. I think it happened a lot and it's still going on. It's just no one could read.

No one could read. It was actually, it was rising literacy rates that made Jack the Ripper what it was. Exactly. Yeah. Guys have been chopping women and half. in England for hundreds of years and it just reached the point where someone goes they did what? He's been doing what?

Sorry, sorry, what? I've done to understand for that. I've literally just learnt to read, what? A, B, C, D, five women slit open in East London. What the fuck? So, yeah, Sickert's thing is that he's a creepy painter or whatever.

But, you know, my point was, this is the ear of, like, Vincent Van Gogh cut his ear off at this kind of time. Basically, if you were alive in the late 19th century and you were mentally a bit do-do, you're doing some magic. There's just no safety net. No. You know, nowadays, all those people who say they got autism or whatever, they'd be, like, that Francis guy,'d cut his ear off and put out on the track or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was all just so grim.

Yeah. What, the Victorian London? Yeah, but the whole era, if someone's mentally ill, they're cutting something. Yeah. Themselves, women, cats, you know. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I guess got the lunatic asylums, which must have been quite a new. thing.

Fucking hell. Yeah. But I think that brings us to the end of our Japan The Ripper series. Yeah, I mean, I still think it could be an old Japanese

woman. Yep. Or a Jamaican man. Or a Jamaican man who split the batty in two. Put the kidney upon the shoulder. Those are the two suspects

I'd like to offer. I think, I think we need to get off Jews and onto some of the other races. Yeah. Let's move on. Move on. It's old hack.

is old hat let's look at the Japanese let's look at the Jamaicans So that's the I guess that's the end of our Epic series on Jack the Ripper Would you say societies Learned anything from these

From this tour de fart This tour de fart Yeah I think we've added Even more confusion Into the mix of the Ripper case I would be surprised If this is the last episode I wouldn't be surprised

If that we're not completely cut up by riparologists if they do absolutely Mary Kane jelly what's she called Mary Kane Jelly I think this is the worst to have as Jack the Ripper

since he chopped up Mary Jane Kelly No I think the worst thing about this whole thing is the fandom that came out afterwards is the people who do the walking tours

What do you think that's the real crime Yeah we're the real victims People have to walk past those fucking twats in top hats going come with me now for a journey through East London Ooh it's spooky

It's dark everyone's poor I can't be doing with any of that and on that note we bid you adieu and we'll see you next week we'll see you next week

for a different topic if you'd like a bonus episode there won't be about mutilated corpses I say that I can't say that I can't promise anything look elsewhere

because you're at the wrong forecast you can become a truth to unsunt to the patron where you'll find a whole fleet of bonus episodes including our series on the rise of the Nazis

but either way thanks very much for watching and we shall see you next time.