Fin vs History - Pull Yourself Up By Your Buttplugs | Margaret Thatcher & The Falklands (Part 6/6)

Episode Date: January 2, 2026

By mummy’s third term she’s so high on her own supply that she thinks teaching kids about homosexuality will give them AIDS and decides taxing people for being poor is a great idea    The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened.   For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon  ⁠patreon.com/fintaylor  CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Mummy’s last term   03:36 - Mystery Bum disease    08:50 - Gaydemic   15:15 - X-Thachtor     16:50 - Don’t die of ignorance   18:26 - Section 28  23:18 - Poll Tax   28:04 - Tories turn on Thatcher    31:42 - Mummy’s gone mad   34:47 - Miner stroke   37:28 - Ding Dong   40:02 - Thatcher’s Legacy  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back Maggie's children to the final part of our epic series on Mummy and the Falklands I'm joined by Horatio Gould to dissect Thatcher's final term in office Mummy's last stand yes where she you know she takes it too far even for her friends yeah she really she really settles in for this one the foot is on the accelerator yeah where are we going yeah straight into the thames it's

tough a trilogy is tough to land there it is this is godfather three it's the longest serving prime minister at this point the first one to win three terms since that one in the victoria earl of liverpool in the 1820 the first prime minister since the earl of liverpool to win three consecutive general elections. Now is she winning these because of the first past the post system? She's unpopular with parts of the country that are underground.

They're under, because we should, we should stress. So there's an underground movement against Satcher. No, not in that way. Literally underground. Yeah, they're underground and they're blacked up and they're digging out burnt toast to power an ailing system really. Creaking industrial system. How are we still powered by burnt toast? I don't understand. As we made it clear in our last episode, none of us understand what

coal is. So going into the 1987 general election, the economy is experiencing strong growth. Unemployment was falling, inflation was low. The Conservatives

highlight this economic stability with their campaign using the simple message, Britain is great again. Don't let Labor wreck it. When was the election that was Labor isn't working? When was that one?

Is that 70-9? Is that to get her in? What was the one that got Cameron in? I don't know. I thought there was one like Labor isn't working. We can't go on like Cameron 2010.

We can't. go on like this. And then does pretty similar. Well, it gets worse. Yeah. Now, Thatcher's majority is reduced from 144 down to 102. Let's find out we're in 1987. What are people calling tits in the late 80s?

Charlie, the late 80s, 1987. The market's been unleashed. The growlers are free. Greed is good. Greed is good. Charlie, they're called Charlie's. There you go. Look at this.

Bristol's has been used throughout the age. but it feels like Bristol's has really died with the traditional East End there's the Bristol stool chart I don't think we should be calling Tits Bristols because there's a Bristol stool chart That's what I call poos Bristols. I'm going to Bristol

What's the Bristol's stool chart? It's the nurse's chart for When you should be concerned as to a colour of a poo But why is that named after Bristol? It's a toilet Is it? No, it's not, I just say there's not Some people

The amount of places you call a toilet It starts to undermine calling it a toilet You've got to save them up No, no, no, I love toilets Have you seen that Not the 9 o'clock news sketch With Ron Atkinson Making a bathroom

He's in a bathroom He's buying a bathroom Yeah And you have a model And you're like putting You can have a shower here You could have a non-sweetening Another toilet

Another toilet Another toilet It's like 20 toilets Oh yeah How about a nice How about a nice heating rack there I have some for drying towels and things That's right

Yes Yes A heating rack isn't as much use To toilet if they're tired Well No I suppose not No

that's that's that's that's that's three toilets oh yes uh in case of blockade yeah anyway that's brilliant oh there's so many toilets he gets up oh that's a lot of toilets so she gets 42% of the popular vote Labor get 27% what we haven't really dealt with throughout the 80s is this mystery disease that comes from either an air stewardess in Sanford no no I think it comes from an air steward in Sanford San Francisco or a monkey, the jury's still out.

That is the disease of AIDS. Allegedly. Allegedly. A lot of this is still murky, you know. Did Ian Curtis kill himself? Yeah. Is Jeffrey Epstein actually Ian Watkins? Yeah.

What is it stand for? The big gay plague. The big gay plague. That's what I call it. I think that's completely correct. That's also what I called the West End. When AIDS first appeared in the 1980s, Thatcher's government offered little communication.

because, you know, she doesn't really know what it is. But also just that's right things. It's like, you know, you're on your own, right? So if you've got AIDS from bumming, it's like, well, that's the free market's decided you've got AIDS. Yeah, the Invisible Hand has wanked you put your dick into someone else's bum, and that is what the markets decide is. The market has put a cock into an ass unprotected.

The Invisible Hand has thumbed your willie into another man's bum and you've got AIDS, and that's just you'll have to deal with it. Is that Adam Smith? That's what you were talking about. the wealth of nations that's what that you believe she's a Methodist which means that whatever happens to you

is your own fault because you're thick and poor or if you're rich it means you're thick poor and gay which means I have to close the minds and now you've got AIDS and you shouldn't have been blacking up underground anyway yeah closes one hole

another opens up yeah but if you're rich because you're brilliant fantastic you're brilliant and you're straight and you're always meant to be rich because you're brilliant and clever and this is what she thinks

sorry I must stress this is what she thinks I've got to stop using this as a soapbox my own opinions. We're not a political show, we're a history show. We're not, we're a political. Yeah. I don't know, I don't have an opinion on AIDS. Was it good?

Was it bad? It's not for me to say. We need balance. You've got someone who's four AIDS and someone who thinks it's a big gay plague. Someone who thinks AIDS is a devastating plague that wasn't dealt with properly by the government or someone thinks it's everyone's just desserts

for being frilly. Just desserts? Yes, you've got your just desserts. What goes around comes around. You spend enough time in bottom. you'll get judged by God by the plague. These are two different opinions. Which is not what you think.

I'm somewhere in between the two. I'm a centrist. You are, yeah. When it comes to age... You're Chucker Amuna? I am Chucker Amuna, who apparently loves this sort of stuff, but anyway, that's allegedly...

Does he chucked some Amunas off his bum? I heard a rumor about him. I heard of rumoured about him. Chuck your Amuner up there. I heard of some rumours about him in tiny temper, but there's probably almost allegedly... Certainly, certainly unbroadcastable. Bubba, Bukha, Babuna, and Baini Bemper, Bummi Bala.

No, we'd be Bambu. Anyway, Thatcher views AIDS, as she views everything through a moral lens. Sure. She thinks it's an Argentinian dirty weapon. The big homos in South America have fired AIDS over. Yeah, it's biological warfare. It is. She concerns that to intervene against AIDS to start a public health campaign would, to be to

promote homosexuality, which she is very much like, listen, do what you do in your own homes, but don't go on about it. That's her vibe on gay rights. She doesn't want to, quote, encourage or normalize same-sex activity. So the cabinet papers show that she questioned whether advising people on safe gay sex may be interpreted as condoning homosexuality, which is the last thing she would want to do, because she's a Methodist. She's not the wokeest woman in the world. No, you can make many accusations of her, but she'd not succumbed to the woke mind virus, as opposed the gay actual virus that AIDS is.

In many ways the first white virus. So AIDS, so that's the whole thing. So it comes from a monkey and then a bloke fucked a monkey, right? That's one theory. Dave Chappelle has been in routine about it. I don't know how scientific that is. AIDS origin.

Discredited AIDS theories. Jumped from chimpanzees in Central Africa to humans likely via hunting contact around 20th century. So it's sort of like SARS. Right. But it's monkeys. But more like COVID. The other, I think the main theory is that one flight attendant in San Francisco

did a lot of fucking damage in the air. Right. And gave everyone, gave everyone AIDS. I mean, that's a lot of damage. I've started saying that, and I'm not sure how the story finishes, but there's... But where do you get it from? Hey? When do you get it, monkey.

Monke! I don't know, but who's the... Johnny Vegas, PG-Tits. Who's the AIDS Patient Zero? Guyton Dungas. Guyton Dungas. He is a Canadian... fucking sexy little twink.

But that's been disproven. He was just... You're saying the guy... The first guy to get AIDS was called Gaytan. Sorry. Are you saying that he was his flight attendant

has been disproven? No. The fact that he was patient zero for AIDS. I think he'd just like shagging in the sky. Gaetan do gas. Gaetan do ass. Like, it sounds made up. Yes, it does.

It sounds like Thatcher's made up. Oh, who gave AIDS first? Probably gay... Gaytan does ass. Probably gay man does ass. Yeah. But in the first years of the 1980s, people are dying from this mystery bum disease and the government are not

doing anything. Or MBD's mystery bum disease. Sorry, sorry, that's what I like that. That's what the player went into Iraq for, isn't it? Quite often I have mystery bum disease after a night hour. Yeah. He was, Saddam was housing MBDs, right? He was. Yeah. And we never found them. There was no mystery bum diseases. There's no mystery bum disease. Eventually, so in Thatcher's second term, her health secretary, Norman Fowler, he launches a major public AIDS education campaign, but supposedly Thatcher is at all times

resistant to dealing with this epidemic. It was a pandemic, but... It was a gay epidemic, right? Yes, it was a gay pandemic. And he advocated for needle exchange programs, push for destigmatizing messages, encouraging people to get tested. There was this big campaign,

don't die of ignorance. There's a needle exchange where you share needles with each other? I think it's the opposite. Charlie will know. No, it's when you hand in your dirty needle for a clean one. Right. Obviously, I was, I was joking.

Yeah, it's not that. I genuinely didn't know what it was. There wasn't people who just shoot up and it says, let's switch. Do you want to be of mine? Yeah. Have a joke on this. Yeah. But, so I guess this is around the time of AIDS parties.

What were AIDS parties? AIDS parties were when people, there was a subset of people who were so anxious about maybe getting it. They wanted to know they had it. So they'd go to a party and all... Bug chasing? Yeah. This was around the time of that. But supposedly, Thatcher is very, very slow to intervene on AIDS to use... But a lot of people are dying from AIDS. And now it's no longer that lethal. It's one of the main medical success stories the last 30 years. It's just because they discovered how to sort out. Prep. Right. They, you take prep and you... It sorts you. Well, firstly, if you, if you take prep,

then you won't catch it, or at least you'll catch it, but it won't turn into AIDS. Right. I'm not that educated about it. You know, if you don't know what coal is, you don't know what HIV is.

It's a bat and collapse through the gay community, right? No, me, like, it's a huge part of, um, kind of gay cultural history is the, the devastation it did to Sony. Yeah, yeah. Gay icons.

It's a, um, Freddie Mercury. Freddie Mercury. Yeah. Get Freddy Mercury on a bed with 20 guys. Uh, do I want to see this? Yeah. You do.

When Right No, I don't think anyone was too shocked When it Where do you think You got AIDS from? I mean it does make

Being gay Look at I mean Yeah, being gay's never Look at that Everyone's got an amazing Mastash Everyone is ripped

Everyone's smiling You're all in a bed together And they're in a massive velvet bed It looks like an absolute lot That's awesome People who believe being gay is a choice I'm like well it's not

Because I choose that But I don't want it That looks fucking great I'd love to be gay I'd love to be gay I'd have disposable income You know My partner would tell better stories

Yeah And we could watch sports together You could still do sleepovers With your friends Yeah exactly Yeah Because by the age of 11 It's gay

And you're like okay Well fine So being gay isn't a choice Because I yeah I'd love to do that Yeah The music's better Yeah

Everything's better Food's better You have hobbies You can dress Like fashionable An ironic way You know If I wear baggy pants

It's silly Oh yeah Your fashion capabilities just goes through the roof. Yeah, I can't. Because you're Chinese bisexual, he can get away with wearing some absolutely mad stuff. What's that thing you wear that sort of weird Shrek thing? Yeah, you wear a woman's fucking. It's a crop top. It's just like a Shrek crop top basically. With leather sleeves. It's like two woolen arms and then a kind of Shrek horse piece on the middle. That's from sucking one cock. I know. It's crazy. You get that pass.

Yeah, I might just do it just to open up my wardrobe and then I'll put that away. It was just one cock I need. Come out the closet to make your closet better. Yeah. I genuinely I you know we start a podcast to wear suits because I don't I'd

it's easier it's easier for straight guys this is the best we can do it's honestly the best we can do and I'd love to be gay and have the option

of wearing a tank top yeah what kind of in your gay dreams or you're not getting judged at all yeah and also you're allowed to go like hey like you're like

we don't let's not lie as straight men no no no no when we part of each other in the street I have to be like yeah

rather than then hi because let's not be around the bush being straight to prison there's a jealousy

for the freedom in which gay guys gesture yeah you know hey much hey bitch that seems a lot

more fun than you know right yeah it does it does not look each other right how did you get here yeah

did you take the do you take the D6 the D6 bus right are not as straight as you no you're not

but What was you probably wear if you were like, so there's no judgment, you're gay, it's fine. Right. What are you wearing in your, in your gay fantasy? Leather kilt. Right. White tank top. Get up a poster of Craig Hills, Edinburgh poster.

But that's a Scotch, right. Yeah. No judgment. No judgment. Yeah, sorry, sorry. That's, that's, that's. Okay. That's me.

Look, Craig Hill's Edinburgh show titles are phenomenal. First of the phenomenal comic. He, like, he tears rooms apart this guy. every Edinburgh show is called it bottoms up, up and coming playing with my selfie, wait to see my entrance phenomenal doesn't get better than this

themed hours sorry? Are these themed hours? Deeply personal moving hours no none of that bollocks this gets harder every year I mean you know pumped fucking how many hours he's done

come on the lads he'll never run out he'll never run out of them it's every using a new hour yeah but that I think what I'd wear is probably, I'd do big fur coat and a thong. So I'm either really overdressed or really underdressed.

But that's quite straight, though. What, a thong and a mink coat? Yeah. I don't think that's straight. It's like a pink, shiny thong. I think you need to go gayer. Right. What's gay than that?

Tank top, full makeup. Okay. Sporin with no kill. You need to be properly... Because you can close the coat, is what I mean? You can be like a... Yes. what's this

it's not going to be what I think it is well what's this right AI is Simon Cow AI phos of Simon Cowell we're talking about

the AIDS crisis yeah this is what it's all about Simon this is what it's all about well you know did um would you argue that maybe X Factor

came out of that feels like a Thatcher's Britain result doesn't it 100% it feels like winners and losers Winners and losers, Simon Cowles, that's right.

Yeah, Big Brother is, you know... It comes out of all this. So maybe this is relevant. Because you're taking people's communities away and you're saying that life is a race, right? And that people have nothing to hold on to. And what's interesting about X Factor and stuff is that you go to the sob stories,

they're always from ravaged towns in the northeast. Totally, yeah. And instead it's like, well, it's not all bad. One of you can sing. Might get to do one hit wonder. and then get chased out of fame by the tabloids. You could be Joe McHaldry. So talking about...

Joe McHaldry now. Yeah. So would you mean that there is not a safety there? Yeah, just do X Factor. It's called Pop Idol. So you've got all the minors, all the people who would be minors. They're like, we're closing the minds, but you can join X Factor and try and out sing each other. Louis Walsh will clap at you, and then three years later, the tabloid will call you fat and disgustle.

Joe McHaldry, unrecognizable on the desk pack. lunch. Yeah, no, he's, he's gone for it. He's gone for it. This is Thatcher's Britain. Yeah. Now, the Don't Die of Ignorance campaign is one of the most dramatic public health campaigns in UK history. This is widely credited with lowering infection rates, changing public behaviour, helping to stem the tide of AIDS. Thatcher, though, is deeply uncomfortable with the explicit nature of the messaging. Cabinet minutes show she objected to language describing anal sex and condom use in public materials. yeah so now she's being a prude

and it's like she's unleashed she's not prudish with a lot of stuff in many ways she's unleashed this sort of fuck it this kind of jolly romp with the big bang and everything like that but now she's like this is too explicit you know yeah but the pamphlets describe risky risky sex

is she just thinking like fuck it let them burn is that is she does she care at all I actually thinks it's probably pretty naughty stuff she probably thinks it's it could even be like a religious they deserve what they get and it's a sign from God it's the free market

everyone makes your own bed yeah and what you're doing that bed is up to you but you'll deal with the consequences if it's bums X then you die yeah I mean you'll watch Eddie Murphy's specials Eddie Murphy is I'm not saying he's some kind of

gay rights hero but I'm saying he has a routine about how fucking scary casual sex is in the 80s we can't imagine how terrifying it was for there's a period where even if you were straight and single and having regular casual sex

you were terrified about dying well it'd be bisexuals like Charlie they were the problem this was not the gay spot it was the bisexuals so the other thing to say about Thatcher and the gay community is that as conservative MPs

become alarmed by what they view as overly frank sex education thatcher starts supporting more restricted policies and we get to the very controversial section 28 which is legislation that prohibits local authorities from quote promoting homosexuality right so bear in mind that you know if you go back to our harold wilson uh episode from the 60s there's been a sort of

public shifts towards homosexuality yeah very fast in the last sort of 20 years sexual revolution 60s revolution as decriminalized um you know uh musicals you name it it's everywhere now Aber Jersey boys whatever it's all over the place so for Thatcher

in 1988 I mean this is very very recent to start sort of being regressive policies it's not directly an AIDS policy but it's so heavily shaped by the anxieties surrounding the gay communities during AIDS it sort of creates widespread fear among charities

and essentially stopping effective HIV education for young people and it was repealed only in 2000 Christ So 2003 Blair So the opposite of now basically

You just can't say It's like anti-Rainbo stuff basically Rainbow had a big cross through it I don't know if they had a big cross-thru No gays no buys No Irish sort of stuff Maybe yeah

But No gays no buys No butt plugs What on pubs Yeah You weren't allowed to teach homosexuality in school It's not about the rainbow thing If you roll around

Like a fucking geezer With a butt blog in Is there something quite straight about a butt plug potentially if you're just like a fucking like Yeah I think so If you cork up and then go around Pints and pints just like

wearing a suit with the butt plug in It's quite a Yeah But no one would know it's in there It's the ultimate sort of protestant It's very Protestant And also I'm not going to judge the man By the butt plug he uses

No I think silver It's the man the butt plugs in You should judge It's the man around It's a man around The butt plug Yeah

It's the man around the butt plug Yeah Yeah You're not defined by your butt plug, Charlie. There's a man on that butt plug. There's a man in there as well. Can we talk about the man on top of the butt plug as opposed to just the butt plug? You can take the butt plug out of the man.

You can't take the man out of the butt plug. Now, Thatcher's justification for Section 28 is her argument that schools were undermining traditional family values. Which she's undermined. By decimating communities. Yeah. But this is the great contradiction. And it's also like these. guys come out the minds that family life's been destroyed they got divorced because their job's gone

yeah and not even allowed to go around bumming anymore no do you that mean the one release you have when your traditional community has been collapsed right you don't even get that so blackface is gone and now bumming as well is it what do you want me to do my kids kids won't speak to me wife's divorce i'm not allowed to go fucking we mustn't be stressed no gay blackface this is crazy brilliant great gay blackface amazing um now by the by the late 80s thatcher has gone absolutely cuckoo yes she starts referring to herself as the royal we, as if she's royal. We must, we must do this, whatever.

This is Lake Gaddafi sort of stuff. It is Lake Gaddafi sort of stuff. As much as we can in Britain. So she says this speech in 87, leading up to the text 908, which she says, children who need to be taught to respect traditional moral values are being taught that they have an inalienable right to be gay. All of these children are being cheated of a sound start in life.

Yes, cheated. I mean, it's... There's still the Methodist approach. It's front foot, isn't it? It's, you know, I'm meeting you head off. Yes, I think an inalienable right. Put yourself out with your butt plug. Yeah, put yourself up by your own butt plug.

But, you know, she's just so high in her own supply at this point. I don't think she reads the mood of the nation at all here. Yeah, she's kind of, yeah. But then I say that, you watch, there are these, like, talking heads of people in the late 80s talking about homosexuality, and it's like, you know, it's a world away from nowadays. I mean, I got my dad. a big that's a big that. What's your dad think about Section 28? Well, my dad's very liberal and all that sort of stuff, but for him,

you know, the market's the main. For him, it's just like a functional economy, everything's built on that. So any other stuff is just sort of like... AIDS, whatever. Free market. None of my bollocks. Basically, whenever she has any sort of social conservatism went in like that, then he's like... Whatever. Whatever. Yeah.

Exactly, yeah. He's always like, I wasn't in a mind. I'm okay. But that's like the Sandbrook. That's the Sambrook view of history, isn't it? When he goes on and talks about Cronwell being like, yeah, if I was Irish, I'd probably hate him, but I'm not so, fuck it. Yeah, that's my dad. I'm English, so I think he was great. Well, well for me, businessman.

Yeah, I like it. Who cares? So, by this point, Thatcher's just going a bit cuckoo. It's, you know, it's some, the kids have left home. Yeah. But mummy is still needing someone to, to mother. Sure. It's a difficult time.

Yes. When your kids flee the nest. She's finding surrogate kids. Yeah. She's just overreach now. And the great irony is that she's, you know, she's a free marketeer, let people get on with it,

and yet is getting in the way of people's lives. Yes, you know. Meddling. Meddling with gay people's rights. What are you doing in there? What are you doing in there? Stop doing that out. Don't stop that. Now, in 1989, 1990,

she starts the policy that will ultimately see her finished off, the poll tax. And to place this, because we haven't placed this, this is just before I was born. Okay. Just before. Right. So it's like the first marker.

Yeah. So before. And it's just, it's just after I was conceived. You're like a half fetus. Could you be aborted at this stage? What are we talking? Let's do the math.

Let's do the math. Let's break it down. 24 weeks. But at this point, in the 80s, what's the abortion limit? 24 weeks. It seems like your life was on a knife edge at this point. Really?

28 weeks. Only eight weeks. So what exact time is the Poltux coming out then? The Poltax, I will, my birthday, it's July 1990, end of July. So what's that? That's October 89. My parents' wedding anniversary? Yeah, hello.

Hello. When's the Poltax brought in? April. Yeah, lovely stuff. So yeah, you could have been aborted? No, could I been aborted? Well, when was it? 28 weeks from the start of October.

Just over six months, I think. Six months. So you're just in the safe, safe zone? Yeah. Now, the poll tax is essentially a replacement of council tax, otherwise known as the community charge. The difference is with council tax, homeowners are charged amount based on the value of their property. Right.

The poll tax is a flat charge paid by everyone, regardless of the wealth bracket. The justification for this is that poor people use more public services. Yeah, that's what my dad says. So is he in favour of the poll tax? I don't know if he's... I haven't supposed to like the poll tax, but he definitely... He's like, I don't even use the NHS.

Yeah. So why should I pay for it? Yeah. I mean, it's a regressive... It's a regressive tax in the... It's hitting the poorest people hard. Yeah. The Tory MP, Nicholas Ridley, says,

why should a Duke pay more than a dustman? By this point, the parties may have been a power too long. Yes. They've lost all sense of who they're meant to be... And this is a pattern that emerges in Britain. Yeah. The Tories, they... After a while,

Labor keep fucking it when they're trying to get rid of the Tories. The Tories's like, we're not meant to be in power this long. No. You're meant to kick us out before this. Before these guys come out. Of course. Of course we're kind of this shit. We're bored.

So, yeah. So the tax was obviously poorly received by the public. Millions of people just didn't pay it. In its first year, 1.2 billion pounds of tax goes unpaid in England and Wales. People develop a range of techniques in order to avoid it. So that people who summoned to the court, they attend court in their hundreds to slow down the process.

they sell furniture to offend for a small sum to avoid it being taken by bailiffs a million people remove their names in the electoral role to avoid tax there's all leads to like riots and there's the poll tax riots

in Trafalgar Square so this is 31st of March 1990 my mother is about six months pregnant right okay this is the world you're born I'm born into this yeah I'm born into Thatcher's Britain just the tail end

100,000 protesters attend a march in London against the tax and it ends with violence 400 arrests over 100 are injured. More than a thousand buses arrive from around England to March to Trafalgar Square. People are shouting

Maggie, Maggie, Maggie, out, out. People set buildings on fire. They overturned cars. But it's a mad policy, right? Yeah. I don't even see, like, it was deeply unnecessary. It's not even like... It's like the rich people who are already doing well. But at this point... Give them another tax break.

It's purely ideological because there's no... Like, the country's... The economy's improving. Yeah. So what's council tax now? Countertax is based your property is in bands Okay So if you have a three bed house

In a certain, on a nice street It will be a higher band Than say like a flat in a dump Yeah well I'm a renter So I think we play a fat rate Don't put yourself down Not I am Not I am

So we play a flat rent A flat fee Just for whichever borough we're in Right yeah It's to do with burrows And how nice thing is But anyway The Tories are turning

against Thatcher because I think it's just and it's completely unnecessary and to have riots in your third term

having had riots all throughout your Michael Heseltine go love Michael Hesstine he announces his intention to run

against her in a leadership election now he had left the cabinet during it's quite a boring thing and it's been like

the Leyland helicopter affair okay it's basically it's about a helicopter contract for the army. Okay.

And some people think that's used European, some of the things you use Americans. He walks out, but he was like, he was an obvious

challengers to the backbenchers. Supposed they say he's one of the most brilliant people's never been Prime Minister Okay. Don't much about it. No, just Tarzan.

Why? Because he, like big eyebrows. Oh, not because he walked around with a sort of loin cloth. Yeah. No. They had a club.

So, in October 1990, Thatchew is arguing against closer integration with Europe. We haven't really talked about it. There's a whole, like her relationship with Europe is

just as fraught as it has been it leads to the resignation of Sir Geoffrey How it's all about the exchange rate mechanism whether Britain joins joins the exchange rate mechanism which is where tying our currency to the German Deutschmark which would be a precursor to the

Euro yeah so she's against it but the Chancellor wants to do it because the whole thing is we freed ourselves of state control in this country why would we give it to Brussels? Yes that's more and more to Brussels. Up yours to laws or that anyway, Heseltine uses the resignation of her to challenge her for the leadership

and Thatcher on the 12th November makes a speech using cricket metaphors I'm still of the crease though the bowling's been postile of late and in case anyone doubted it I can assure you there'll be no ducking the bounces no stonewalling no playing for time the bowling is going to get hit all around the ground

that's my style to be fair that is her style she swacks it around she basballs the miners The next day in Parliament Ho says in a speech it's rather like sending your opening bats

into the crease only to find that their bats have been broken before the game by the team captain It's not as good analogy I feel as that No but he does make an amazing resignation speech where he basically He's moments in the house of comments right So he's so quiet and

unassuming But an old school conservative right Yeah he stabs her in the back Yeah So she then goes into a leadership campaign against Hesseltine she wins the first round but didn't win outright

so we'd have to go to a second round which is basically a death sentence so she would prefer to see John Major become party leader than risk losing to Hesseltine so she resigns as Prime Minister on the 22nd of November So it's meant to be Hesseltine?

Yeah over Major. The Great Pretender, yeah Right. And John Major she had when he was whipped she'd absolutely cut him, she'd like shouted as him and humiliated it and he wore it and just stayed in the tent and then ends up being Prime Minister Yeah, he didn't go to university, John Major.

I'm actually excited for the John Major episode. My wife had a crush on John Major when she was a kid. But he feels like it's very rare that you have a Prime Minister that the whole of Britain doesn't hate. John Major. John Major is one of the only Prime Minister who seems pretty uncontroversial. It's because everyone just thinks he was a decent man. And he was only there for a term.

And he was trying. He's just like a nice sweet man. But no one would boo. If you did that thing of like, give me a cheer if you like this Prime Minister, I think there's booze for everyone but Major and maybe Atley. Good name as well. And Brown. Brown's come back around, I think.

Do you think? For summary, yeah, I mean, when James McCann did that bit, yes, that's true. Brown gets some cheers. So the decision comes less than 24 hours after she had declared she would fight on and fight to win.

But she has gone cuckoo by this point. This is last years of Venger. It's like, there's no CDM. Six attack of infielders on the pitch. You know, it's ideology over pragmatism. Yeah, it is exactly last week of Venger. So some of the ministers

are also wiping away tears she was struggling to get the words out she's gibbering wreck there's that famous photo can you find it Charlie of her crying in the car leaving down in the downing street with wet eyes so finally yes tears in the back seat that's the headline so now every female prime minister

have they cried on the way out trust hasn't did trust cry I think she might have did trust cry trust didn't cry yes no no no no no no no no no that's after that's after so she didn't cry. She just got on with it.

Obviously, Theresa May. The country I love! Yeah, no, Theresa May fucks it. I thought that was quite good. It's nice, it's nice. The Maybop. Yeah, when she cries, that's quite a powerful, you know, quivering on that final word is quite good, no.

And seeing Thatcher finally show some true emotion. Yeah. So on the 28th of November, John Major becomes Prime Minister, and Thatcher stays in the house for a bit, I think. But her and Dennis moved to a gated community. Yeah. Classic.

She remains an MP into 92. She establishes the Thatcher Foundation to promote free enterprise. And she remains good friends with people like Chilean dictator, Augusto Pinochet. Elevate your circle, guys. Yeah, who was arrested by the human rights and she campaigns to have him dropped. All the charges dropped. Well, under house arrest in the UK, Thatcher sends Pinnishet a bottle of whiskey with a note. Scotch is one British institution that will never let you down.

A guy, no one's defending. no actual stick a neck out no, you know what, give me a bottle of scotch Prince Andrew, I can't believe how they treated you We should be checking in actually with what Saville's doing Here's the barometer of this series Yeah, 1990, November 1990, what is Saville doing? He's led through all these prime ministers pretty much

1997 was being knighted It's made a knight to the realm Yeah, because he was, yes, New Year's honours for his charitable work unfettered access to hospitals which you don't need to go into I think you know

but you know it's nice to see men in nursing positions it is nice to see men in nursing positions you know he broke so many boundaries Jimmy Saville you know he was a busy man

he was busy he went out of his way to do so much for charity in the way that Mark Wahlberg posts his daily routine showing how productive he is I don't need to see James James himself's daily routine

I don't need to see it Well, how did he get so much stuff done? I think you could learn. And that's part of the reason I don't believe anyone. What times are you going to bed? What times are he getting up? When they say the slander about him that he was a megapedo, I think, well, you've been, I mean, this guy. James Saville, Knight of the Realm, white hair, red glasses, full track suit.

Not a chance in hell. Not a chance. You are having a laugh. In 2002, Margaret Thatcher suffered a series of minor strokes. Now, those aren't minors. Yeah. While on holiday, Madeira, with Dennis for their 50th wedding hour. Guys in blackface, just like...

Yeah, no, she's not being stroked by guys in blackface. She spends the last years of her life living at home, listening to classical music, watching songs of praise and reading the papers. Then she moves in the ritz. She fades out. She does fade out. She moved into the Ritz? Yeah, that's quite nice though, isn't it? How much is...

So she just whittling her money away? I guess so. Just paying the Ritz prices every day. How many years was thatcher at the Ritz for? It's pretty cool to die at the Ritz. That is pretty cool. Yeah. While staying at the Ritz

on the 8th of April 2013, Margaret Thatcher passes away at the age of 87. Three to four months of the Ritz. Doesn't it say a lot about her philosophy in that rather than get the state to pay for care, she moves into the Ritz for the last four months

and she's too frail. I mean, that's kind of badass, isn't it? She was a friend of the hotel's owner. Oh, she didn't have to pay to stay there. But then the Ritz aren't, they're not wiping her ass, aren't they? The Bell Boys. It's not like an actual care home.

You can't pay... For a price. Well, that's what you can't... I can't go to the Ritz and say, yeah, whatever it takes, I'll pay more so that someone can bite my ass. I think you're pretty good. Do you reckon? How much would it do? There's a number. Everyone's got, every man's got a price.

Yeah, well, I need to know what their normal rates are and then you, it's percentage-wise, isn't it? What percentage of your roomly rate is it, is the upgrade? No, no, obviously, don't, don't, Charlie! Charlie, type in, how much is it to stay at the writs? Don't just Google how much for a guy to wipe your bum.

pounds in 2013. For one night? For a night, the Ritz. So double that if you want someone to wipe your bum. Double, double. Yeah, two and a half grand. I'll do it for two and a half grand. Charlie, genuinely, for two and a half grand, would you wipe Finn's ass?

Yes. So I think, I imagine... She'd give me that chance. I imagine you would take Charlie to the Ritz and then you'd be charged corkage on having your own bump piper. Do you know what I mean? So I imagine, we could probably make this work. You pay Charlie to an half grand and then you pay maybe 300 on top.

for having your own arswiper. Plus V-A-2. I'll do it for five. I'll do it for one. I'll do it for a grand today. Now, in the following days, anti-Thatcher marches and celebrations, well, I remember this.

The week she died, ding-dong, the witch is dead. Which is number one on iTunes. I was doing my Duke of Edinburgh when I found out Thatcher was dead. Were you in the Falklands? And that was pretty much, that was like a white squared,

you know, being out on the South Downs. Sorry, I thought you meant you posted a white square in Thatcher. Thatcher dies. Yeah, and Thatcher died. Anyway, 300 people gathering Glasgow to celebrate her death. And Decappeliners shout, Maggie, Maggie, Maggie, dead, dead. Yeah.

100 people gathering Brixton. I remember all this. David Hopper, the General Secretary of Dufferin Minor's Association, said he was celebrating, turning 70, and it was the best birthday I've ever had, and I'm getting the shoe polish out, and I'm getting on the ground, and fuck it, the accent's coming out. I don't care anymore. It's my tradition. He said that, quote, she was a heartless woman who tore the heartless woman who tore the

out of the mining community to the north. She was a disaster for the workers of this country, although millionaires like those in David Cameron's cabinet, certainly did all right. George Galloway tweeted, saying, tramp the dirt down. May she burn in the hellfires.

Jerry Adams, whatever. I mean, it's, you know. Usual suspects. She was a divisive figure. Sure. People didn't like her. But how will history remember her is going to be an interesting question.

because as much as I was very confused growing up seeing as Thatcher saying she was great and then you speak to anyone else's parents they all hated her so it was confusing but if you think about a hundred years time or what makes someone historic Thatcher is maybe up there with top 10 most historic women of all time

yeah it's not a long list though no but still Joan of Arc Cleopatra Cleopatra Queen Elizabeth the second yeah Liz Tross Margaret Thatcher the first maybe

the woman who invented the big Sippy Cup. Mary Cury. Maricuree. But she's got to be up there. Lorraine. Lorraine's up there. Yeah.

And the most consequential politician of Post-Wil Britain? Undoubtedly. More so than Atley. Yeah. Because her... Undoubtedly. Her version of Britain

has lasted longer than Atleys by about because we're still in it and it's been about 15 years longer. Well, we are in, you know, we are now in Atle's Britain that has been pegged to shit by Thatcher.

Yeah. And so the NHS is hanging on by a thread. You know, the railways are, they were sold all those off. Everything's been sold off to a Frenchman. To a Frenchman. Every high street that's not, that's not like one of the major five cities is awful. Yeah. The works, CEX.

The British, this is the long road to CEX. Yeah. And like vape. Vape stores. Chicken shops. The small town Britain that she grew up in and tries to like mythologize. Champion, yeah. She completely destroyed.

Yeah, there's a statue of her. Grantham, she never fucking went back there. She hates small towns. Yeah. And she caused the brain drain to London. What do you think that Thatcher would make of Bonnie Blue? What would she actually say? I mean, Bonnie Blue is a product to Thatcher. I think she says that openly. I think Bonnie Blue says I'm one of Thatcher's children. Yeah, I think so. Free market, right? Exactly. She's the definition of free market. She, yeah. When you destroy kind of values or community cohesion and it's just about making money. Bonnie Blue is a champion of post-Thatcher Britain. She's the end point of Thatcher's economics. Yeah. It doesn't matter the emotions or the commuteranism that's

gone. Yeah. Just privatise your cunt, sell it to the lowest bidder. Do you know what I mean? If you do any sort of lists of best post-war British Prime Minister, it feels like Thacher doesn't actually get brought up because she's too controversial. If you're being a dispassionate graph of like change, and that's the indicator of how you judge someone, she's done the most. Yeah. So she's the most impactful. And the most, if you talk about political talent. Yeah. And probably political talent is the ability to enact change.

Yeah. And to convince people have changed. Yeah. It's Thatcher, then Blair probably. Yeah. 100%. Because everyone else is kind of like went out with a whimper. Well, Blair ushered in a new era of focus groups like PR.

We haven't even talked about. And that would run three elections. Yeah. But we haven't even talked about what Thatcher did with like Sarchie and the whole the way she changed political advertising. and all that and all that stuff. She basically let a genie out of a bottle that you can't put back in.

Yeah. Or this you haven't figured out a way to... We haven't figured out a way to replace it with anything. No. Sort of like feels like everything's on a glitch since Thatcher.

And Thatcher said her greatest achievement was Tony Blair. Did she actually say that? Yeah. What context does she say that? That's a pretty hardcore quote. In 2002, Margaret Thatcher was asked for her greatest achievement,

she replied Tony Blair and new label. Yeah. We forced our opponents to change their minds. Fair enough. Now she got the... She got essentially a state funeral pretty much.

other than the funeral of Winston Churchill, it was the only Prime Minister's funeral that the Queen attended. Who's that bloke in his mid-20s bawling at Thatcher? Wasn't this when, but we loved her? Yeah. But people, I mean, people do, but then, you know, people of that generation,

like my parents were young, were Cambridge students. Yeah. Like, the dad became a drama teacher. Fuck you mom. Yeah. During Thatcher. So she, they really hated all this.

but for people who were more conservative or who were a bit older when she was around she made them feel good about being British for the first time in 30 years which you know if you've listened to the 10 hours we did on Postal British there was not a lot to feel good about it no and then my grandparents who were fruit and veg traders she basically if you're ambitious enough

and worked hard enough you could sort of buy your way into a middle class that would reject you in the old Britain So for them, Thatcher was like, they were exactly the type of people that Thatcher was trying to support kind of aspirational, upwardly mobile, working class, pity bourgeois people. If you were ambitious, Thatcher was brilliant. And if you needed help in any way, she was awful. Yeah. She turned her country into one of winners and losers, which was very great. She made X Factor and Bonnie Blue.

Yes, that is what Britain is. Yeah, it's X Factor Bonnie Blue. He used to be stamp collecting and fucking, you know. Airfix models. and now it's Bonnie Blue and X Factor and Love Island and that's Thatcher.

She turned this country into one of winners and losers and we're very grateful because our patron is full of losers If you If you're The minds may be shut But our patron is open

It's teeming And there is also I can say That Blackface is welcome in our Patreon Many of our patrons wear Blackface That's a personal choice They make

Come join a member's club Sort of That you can say what you want Around the Snooker table that's what this is it's a safe space yes it is a safe space come join the patron

where we will be dealing on a bonus episode with a book called Superwoman that my wife found a copy of and she was cleaning out her uncle's house and it's not a euphemism

it's not a euphemism he's gone into care and she's dealing with his house right sorry if you want to pass me a copy it's a handbook it's a handbook for how to be a working wife

and mother how to save time and money What era is this? This is 1975. Oh, right. It's a 50th anniversary copy. You can see how many funny things there are in it by how many tags there are. But we'll be dealing with, we'll be delving to that in the Patreon for our bonus episode this week.

But if not, this has been Thatcher and the Falklands. Britain's mother, the story of Britain's mother. We will see you next time for a new topic. God bless and good night. Goodbye. Thank you.