Fin vs History - White Slavery, Victorian ISIS and The Big Bunda Tree | Gordon of Khartoum (Part 2)

Episode Date: January 29, 2026

Nothing says “I’m not a paedophile” like religion, charity, and a group of young boys.    General Gordon (Part Two) The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened.   For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon  ⁠https://www.patreon.com/fintaylor  Chapters: 00:00: Charitable paedophile  05:50: The great boy lover  10:05: A chinese fez  15:22: World’s fattest woman  18:39: Charlie’s a paedophile  23:51: The bad slaves  26:03: Bunda tree   29:44: The early Dr Grumpikins  33:56: Let’s send Beckham    36:52: Sonic orgasm chair   39:01: Filibustering the nile  44:17: lsis be isising   46:32: One all   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Visit medcan.com slash moments to get started. Welcome back to Finn versus history with me, to Rayshaw Gould. Hello, sir. It's part two of our General Gordon story. A romp. Oh, it is a romp. I'm having a lovely time. Through colonial equator.

Can I just say I'm having a lovely time? Yeah, it's like a warm bath. Take me back. I want to go back. This is where I think if I was to time travelling, I'd go back to 19th century. I think that's well documented, Finn. I don't know if. No, I just want to make a bit clear.

I think you managed to say that maybe three times a week. I love this time. I love it. Born in the wrong era. General Gordon, if he did podcast, that's me. You're the General Gordon on the podcast. I'm Chinese Gordon. I should be called Chinese Taylor.

Should be called Chinese accent, Taylor. She's quite a different thing. I love that. Oh, yeah, Chinese accent Taylor, yeah. He was a national hero. Yeah, he was. Yeah, got statues of him. Chinese accent Taylor.

It's the statue. The Ronaldo bust, but it's me doing the eyes and the team. That's Chinese accent Taylor. People looking back at it was a different time, was it? I didn't really make sense of the time, to be honest. Jamaican accent Taylor. Yeah. Another bust.

You have several busts. Yeah. Big batty bust. Big batty bust. Listen. General Gordon, this is a kind of pause in his adventures because he's back in England, having defeated the Taiping rebellion for the Qing's. Led by Chang.

Led by Chang in China. Yep. So he's now back in Gravesend. And he's basically commanding fortification works on the TEM. It's funny. how bleak Britain always feels when you go back to it in these stores. It's always so exotic and incredible all these like the films, Lawrence of Arabia, all the cartoon.

But as soon as you go back, it does feel like off. It feels like it was all a dream. You're back in Gravesend. It must do. That's why he's so bored. He's like, fuck, Gravesend. Really? Yeah.

I was in, you know, Shanghai. Gravesend, have you done that gig, the curb gig there? I have not, but it doesn't begin with an H, so I imagine it's fine. Is that you're right? Is it? Yeah, it's fine. Anyway, so he now devoted. his time as a kind of, you know, religious social outreach for urchins, what he, what you'd call

working class children. Right. Yeah, the word urchin, that's not used anymore. It feels very over time. It's an industrial working class child, right? Mudlarks is what they, is that what the boys are called? Have you ever mudlarked? Sorry? Have you ever mudlarks? I do not have a predilection for mudlarking. No. It does sound like a Victorian euphemism for being gay. It does. Yeah, mudlarking. Mud larking in the Thames Mud larping. Mud larping? Would you say that

Philip Schofield was mud larping? Or is that live action role playing as a gay man? I don't think he was live action role playing. Going into the woods and mud larping. Very different to lardping.

You don't want to get mixed up. His defence could have been I was mad larping, but imagine going to a larp session but you're there for a mudlark session and then you basically end up. But when you say mudlark, what do you mean?

Bumbing a goblin. Okay, a lot of layers there But mudlarking I've had friends who have mudlarked in the Thames Mudlarking is still a very modern thing God, there's a Thames Because you can literally You have to have a mudlark license

This is true When Soho What are you talking about? What are you talking about? I'm talking about Do you know what mudlarking actually is? I thought I did, but no I don't sure It's when you go to the banks of the Thames

It's like aquedogging Yeah Right Yeah So you go to the bank of the Thames and then look for shit, right? Oh, right, okay. There's literally a thousand years of history,

but you're not allowed to dig without a license. Okay. And then a professional mudlarker will take your little tour and you'll find a little Roman coins. Professional mudlarker. Right, okay. Yeah. So it's like treasure hunting without a metal detector.

Yes. Yeah. Okay, fine. So he spends Gordon, he's, he probably is a repressed mudlarker. But he also, he spends 90% of his income on charity. He describes his, period as quote the most peaceful and happy of any portion of my life, which doesn't seem quite right given he's so fired up by seeing action. Yes. But I guess this is the most peaceful

this is the interim. Seeing as he's not at war, which is most of his life. But I guess the reason he loves going to war perhaps is because he's a non-offending homosexual slash paedophile. He's going to war with his own sexual urges. In Gravesend in London, he is, has to deal with his latent non-offending homosexuality slash paedophilia. And he takes out. on his urchins. And he takes it out and the mudlarking. He goes to mudlark to let off steam. Yeah. So he takes boys off the streets, washes them, clothes. Does he wash them himself? We don't know. This is where the historians get quite tense. Because when does Victorian Christian charity bleed into paedophilia? It's a, it's a brilliant question. Thank you. And one that I'm

not sure this country has ever really solved. I need Dimble to be fielding this on question time. Was, you know, this is the long, you pull at the tug at this thread, you end up at Submit Savile. Yeah. The charity work... You tug off this thread. You tug off this mudlark. You know, the charity, the charitable paedophile is a British archetype. It is. Of which people want to paint Gordon. What, like, you mean like a tarot card?

Yes. You could have a card that's called the charitable pedophile. Yes. And it's Savile with a snake on him like this. And, yeah, you can have your tarot read. The hand giddeth. The hand taketh away. Exactly. The hand feeleth. Oh, did you have your cards read? Yes. What does it say?

I don't want to talk about it. But anyway, I've just donated all my money to Oxfam, and I feel like I've earned something. I would like a little treat because I've been very nice. Oxfondel. Oxfondel. Now, he had done this in, he refers to his boys that he,

I mean, again, you know, having boys is, it's building a case. Yeah, but it's also, I think it's quite sophisticated.

He refers to them as his wangs, because that's the Chinese for king, and he's Chinese gau. I mean, now we know the history of it, that does sort of make sense, but it doesn't read well if you don't know that. No, it's actually because I was in China. They called Wang's. And it's actually what they call kings.

When did the term Wang mean penis in English? Charlie, this is crucial. In the case, we're building a case. I'm for the defence, and I need to know. 1931. Oh. He's innocent. Just.

The man is innocent. Just. He's an innocent man. And maybe the fact that he had boys called wangs, and maybe if people thought he was a paed by fault at the time, then that is why the word wang now means penis. Interesting. So Gordon's charitable work for boys led to assertions that he was a homosexual.

Slander. I mean, slander. I know, but there is something brilliantly Victorian about someone doing charity work and being called a homosexual. Well, you're gay. That's what I mean. I love this age. I'm running a marathon.

Are you, why? Are you gay? Raising money for who? Yeah. What, Waterford, are you gay? I'm doing a tough muddough. Tough mud larkab, all right? Why have you got Sir Elton John? Because he, um, he looks like he could be a paedophile and he does a lot of charity work.

I mean, look at that. Look at what? Look at what? I mean, yeah. Look at what you're going to go up? Well, I will say, actually. Compare the two. Yeah.

Do you know what it is? It's, it's, it's, it's what he's done. Elton John has realized if he dies, keeps his hair died. Yeah. He can avoid, he can avoid turning into Saville. because if you have red glasses, which I notice you have. Yeah. Now, what's the deal with that?

Why are tinted glasses the thing nowadays? I think, to be honest, it's... Is it because it's cool, or is it because you're trying to tell me that you're gay and you want to do something? We can't know. Well, I want to know why people walk around, because it's not just him. You see, nowadays you see lots of people with tinted glasses. We're looking at a photo belt and John, and he's got his earring, so I know he's gay, but he's also got these red glasses.

Well, I think the reason people get red glasses is you're sort of split in the difference between natural glasses and sunglasses. It's a halfway point. Right. So that's what you're doing. But what weather is that for? I've seen you wear them inside. Is that because you can't deal with lights because you're autistic or?

Oh, no, they're not like, it's not like an autistic glasses thing. That's what I think it is. It's a fashion statement. Right. It's the statement is, I could be a paedophile, but we can't know. Okay. Right. That is quite the statement.

Yeah. So we've got a fashion statement. Yeah. Well, I guess, yeah. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Yeah. And is anything bolder than that.

It's a hell of a gambit. It's a gamble. So if Gordon was alive today, would he have had these little red glasses? The stats are backing it up. They are. They are. They probably would. The Dictionary of National Biography describes it.

Maybe so you don't see age. Right. No, like 3D glasses. Oh, do they dim age? They do dim age. Right. He describes Gordon, the National Dictionary. The Dictionary of National Biography describes Gordon as a, quote, great boy lover.

He's never married. He didn't have a relationship with anyone, it seems. Well, this could be Heathian. Oh, sorry, Ted Heath. Yeah. Sorry, I didn't mean to. You haven't heard Heathian yet. Not yet.

But I like it a lot. I have a Heathian streak. I do have a Heathian streak. I do have a Heathian streak. And I don't see women. Some days, you feel heathian. Oh, yeah, exactly. It's a Ted Heath day.

Don't talk to me. Or I feel Wilsonian a lot, you know. When you're on the back foot. Yeah, I'm quite often. Wilson's second term. It's second term Wilsonian. No, I have a heathian streak for sure. But that's what it feels.

similar to Gordon, he potentially homosexual has rumours of being a paedophile, doesn't see women. Yes, it is. It is. And also, we were talking in the last episode about how it's so uncomfortable meeting new women. Imagine, that's my heathian streak. It's a new woman comes into my life and I don't know how to greet her.

And it's easy to meet her towards, go away and just walk away. You could chest each other. Belly bumps. That's what my daughter does. That could be going to meet a new woman who's, wait. It's what my daughter's at the side of the school gate. She puts a school bag on her front and goes, belly bumps and then just start bumping people.

Yeah. Well, I think that's a nice way to greet a woman. It is nice, yeah. So he says that he could only hurt a potential wife because it was inevitable that he would die in battle. Because he was a gay paedophile. He was a gay paedophile. And he knew he'd have to fight at some point.

And if I was the wife of a gay pedophile, would hurt my feelings. Yes. Gordon at the age of 14 says that he wish he'd been born a eunuch. Now this is just a response. That's a odd thing to say. Yeah, but he's also talking about wanting to be released from his, quote, vile body in which his spirit is imprisoned.

So there's a... He's got body issues. He's a teenager with body issues. Yes, he's got... We now say he's got body dysmorphia. That's really wants to be freed from this vile sack. I mean, I guess I sort of relate with that. Sometimes, you know, the hammy cage that is the body.

I wish... Sometimes it feels like it's dragging you down from the divine to have to be dealt with the filth of a constantly aging and crusting body. Yes, yes. I see your point was also quite a convenient excuse. to frame it as, I wish my pure soul would be freed from this paedophiles body. It's quite a convenient separation of church and study. I wouldn't be surprised as well if the soul went and then you realised the body wasn't the paedophilip.

It turns out the soul was a thing. It turns out that I'm a pedophile in my essence. Actually, you're just a pedo driving a car. Yeah. I'm like this is just a pito car. You get out, no, I'm a pido car. You get out, no, I'm a pido license. And all the only book cars I can buy are pido cars. Yeah, so Gordon, we don't know if the references in gordon's letters about his need to resist quote, temptation and subdue the flesh.

Relate to women or men, I think it's pretty clear it's men. There's also this kind of gathering historiographical noise that says maybe he wasn't homosexual, but kind of maybe asexual autistic, which we've talked about. But again, in the Victorian age, what does that even mean? Sexuality is so repressed.

Everyone's autistic. They're putting fucking dresses on chair legs. As with Heath, let's gloss over these allegations. They're baseless. I'm concerned. This is a man who liked rolling around the mud with boys and washing them and giving them food. We don't know if anything was untoward.

What could be untoward about that? You know, people are like, oh, Saville's... Sir James Saville. James Saville, I won't have this slander. General Gordon, Sir James Saville. Stop slandering their names. Stop slandering British heroes. We get to the issue of the Sudan.

Now, we should say that that's why we're wearing fez hats and we didn't mention that once last episode. And also in last episode Gordon didn't even come close to Africa No We're in China the whole time It's sort of a Chinese e-hat isn't it I don't yeah I don't know

There's a Chinese e-hat that's like Yes there is actually A short fez But I don't think it's already We basically never wear hats So I think to do a China episode in a fez Look an Oriental fez Is a kind of

But it's not that Yeah if you put it a longer If you had a longer thing It'd be like an episode on Chinese Gordon and we've got these on. Fou Manchu hat, but he's Gordon of cartoon. We're looking at photos of Chinese fesses.

He's a GOK. Yeah, now the fess we've realized because we've been putting, wearing these hats going, this is one of the most impractical hats ever. What could this possibly be designed for? Apparently, it's so that you could pray

as a Muslim without your head touching the floor or so your head could touch the floor. You had to touch the floor. Imagine you got one of those Australian flycatcher hats, you know, Like a cowboy hat with all the corks. Like that would be a nightmare if you're praying five times a day. Yes.

The corks would be going everywhere. Exactly. And so this is a way your forehead can touch the ground, which you need to do, but also you're still wearing a hat. Yes. Yeah. I guess because this is the age where it was very rude not to wear a hat. Yes.

So you have to do something. Hats were imperative. Yeah. So in February 1872, Gordon is promoted to Colonel. Now, we should just place this early on in the episode. Gordon meets his end at Cartoon in 1885. That's just before Jack the Ripper. it is just before

it's about three years it is four years before Hitler's birth is it oh okay so that is well and it is after just in case anyone anyone's wondering

it's four years before Hitler's birth it's after the invention of the gin and tonic I imagine must be they're swilling G&T must be

fuck me I love a G&T in the film cartoon he's drinking brandy and soda B&S B and S BS which I never had

and I can't imagine that it tastes nice no but I imagine Yeah, you hadn't been exposed to as many tastes back then. No, I also do feel like... Do you like brandy? Well, this is what I'm saying. I like saying, I like the kind of person who says,

should we have a brandy. I like that feels good. I want to be that guy. But it does seem like a bad drink. I like whiskey and I feel like it's not much of a lateral move to brandy, but I'm scared. Right. I'm also...

You want someone to hold your hand. I'm also not going to black clubs where they drink brandy and Quervazier and stuff. But they'd never call it a brandy. They'd be sipping henny. Hennessy. Because you don't hear... you just never hear a black person say, I love Brandy.

Well, brandy's a name. So actually, yeah, you probably would hear that. But they'd be talking about their wife or their girl mama. Right,

right. Or their sidepiece. Their sidepiece or their baby mama or their birth mama or whatever. I'm fluent in black culture as you'd expect, someone called Jamaican accent, Taylor. I'm going to leave that one.

So while traveling to Constantinople in the 1870s, Gordon meets Egypt's, Prime Minister Ragib Basha. So he talks about entering the service of Egypt. The Khadiv. Is that like a sheriff and a boss? The Khadiv of Nottingham. Yeah. The Ottomans technically run Egypt.

Do they? Yes. Egypt is a sort of semi-autonomous region that's technically under the Ottoman Empire. But Cairo. Hence the Fezzas. Right. But the British are getting quite involved in Egypt. Yes.

The British and French have loaned the Egyptians. We're truffle-pigging around. We're truffle. we're hunting for truffles. Yeah. And there's a big old fucking truffle in Egypt called the Suez Canal. And the British and the French

have loaned the Egyptians £93 million in Victorian money to build the canal and to operate it because the Egyptians mainly no camels. Right. And then we are, then they have,

they're in a massive debt to us. And so Britain kind of has to try and get involved in Egypt in order to ensure that it could always pay its debts and it can run the canal. Yeah, because Cairo is a sort of nerve centre of all of Britain's operations in North Africa, Arabia, Middle East. Yeah.

Who's that, Charlie? This is Iman Ahmed Abdel-Atti. And she is the world's heaviest fattest woman. Is that her official title? But is she from Egypt? Heaviest fascist. Yeah, Egyptian. Wow, okay.

The heaviest living woman in the world? Was Egyptian, yeah. The second heaviest one in the history? Seven and a half inches. Died 37? Quite chode. Is that less or more than you'd think for the world's heaviest woman? on 37.

She made it to 37. Yeah. What was her final weight? She was also four foot seven. So she was tiny, to be heavy with that little height. You've got to Egyptian cuisine. They eat with their hands, right? Is it bread?

Is it a scoping bread? Is it a camel hump? We've seen that video. Yeah. I've been putting apart the camel hump. It's kind of scooping wet stuff. Egyptian food's nice, actually. I was in Egypt last year.

There's some good stuff. What she eating? Hey? What is she eating, do you imagine? Because hummus can only take you so far. Yeah, it is a stealth. It's a stealth weight game, though. So we're looking at, well, I guess.

We're looking at pictures of a dying fat woman. Let's be clear. World's Fattest Woman, who weighs nearly 500 kilograms, is lifted out of her bed by crane and put on a cargo plane to be flown to India for surgery. Now, I would imagine that's perhaps breast reduction surgery. Yes. Maybe.

She's got a couple of honkers there. Yeah. Well, no, I think she's got lack of breast considering how big she is, to be honest. I think from the neck down, it's hard to say what's pressed and what's telling you. Yeah. Say what you see. A wall of her room had to be brought down to help bring her out.

Yeah. Think of what you think the world's heaviest woman looks like. You'll probably be pretty close. Yes. There we go. So I guess if you're having to do a forced side return for weight loss in your house, you've got an issue. Not to fat shame.

I mean, yeah, as a former fat person, I think you have your rights to talk on this as well. Thank you. Yes, I do. You're, you know, a couple of, a couple of kilograms away from a cargo plane to India. Two minutes pies away from fucking cargo plane. So Britain is kind of involved in Egypt, but mainly to protect its interest. When does Egypt become a British colony? Is that during? It's after this. It's after this. I think it's because, because Cecil Rhodes also wanted to build Carriott's Cape Town. And that's I thought that was when. So when did a, Egypt become a British colony. I don't think Egypt is officially a British colony at this point.

1882. Oh, right. No, it's de facto control of the nominally Ottoman province until 1914 when it's a former protectorate. There you go. Then Ottoman Empire collapses in 1914. Britain gets it. But basically, so...

Yard sale. So we're sort of involved, but it's mainly about the Suez Canal. Right. We don't really care about anything else. But also, as we'll discover, the Ottoman troops and the Egyptian troops aren't well trained enough to protect the Suez Canal. So Britain is at risk of becoming a quagmire for the British Empire, Egypt.

So in 1874, Gordon accepts the appointment as Governor General of Equatoria, which is in the southern Sudan, under Ishmael Pasha. Now, Ishmael Pasha is the Egyptian Prime Minister, whatever the fuck. And Sudan is sort of a... Egypt has its own colonial ambitions in Sudan.

Because you just go down the Nile and then around a bit and you get to Sudan. Yeah. You ever been to Sudan? I have been right on the border. Have you? Four months ago. Oh, right. Isn't it all kicking it off?

Sudan is as big as Western Europe. So it's fucking huge. Right. And it's all kicking off far down away. It would be like saying it's kicking off in Italy, saying it's kicking off here. Fine. But yeah, they're both countries that run down the Nile. That's kind of where all of civilization in both countries is sort of done down that one river.

And the borders have constantly moved. And it's desert, the Sudan. Complete desert. Very inhospitable. So the Khadiv of Egypt offers Gordon 10,000 pounds. Gordon insists he could do it for 2,000 pounds because he's a moral man, he just wants to help. Now, we get to the thorny issue of Gordon's anti-slavery.

Obviously, people think the British Empire was all slavery. But what never gets talked about... Doesn't a lot... Some circles. Of course in some circles. And some very popular podcast, I think it gets brought up a lot. Yes.

But to my social circles, I feel like the outlier in saying, well, there was a significant period of time where Britain was going in and trying to stop slavery. The out-interruptor at dinner parties. Yeah, exactly. I feel like. Sorry, actually, there was quite a lot of men

trying to stop slavery. You look at the watch, this is going on for an hour and a half, let's end it now. I actually... Yeah. Pudding is too late. I'm going home to eat some chocolate. I actually think Britain stops slavery.

But yeah, it definitely is missing from some of the narratives. Yes. That Britain was the first country in history to truly make it illegal to have slaves. Yes. And they use that to... As a liberal interventionist. Yeah. Way of helping their imperialist ambitions.

So they basically went around. Britain was the only country that could afford to not have slaves because... They're so highly industrial. I tell you what's exactly like, it's like now when Britain and America are telling India and China to go to that net zero. And they're like, we've just fucking got fossil fuels. They're sick.

The same time, we're like, don't use slavery? And the Sudan, they're like, do you see how much stuff gets done with slaves? Yeah. The economy's booming. And we're like, no, but it's a moral. It's a similar dynamic. Yes. Is it like if a paedophile becomes a paedophile hunter?

Is it the same as that? No. Um. Hold on. I do think you, I think it is a bit. I don't like calling the British nation

a paedophile. We're a nation of paedophiles. We are not a paedophile. We must aim higher than that. We are. No, we're not. I'm a paedophile.

We have to have. Full stop. Any podcasts is the producer. Is there any podcasts in the country where the producers go, I'm a pedophile? No disguise on there. And we'll leave it.

the edit. Not even a smirk. We'll leave it in the edit and there's a certain section of our audience who fucking hate it. I'm a paedophile. Ah, fuck it. We'd said about the story of a guy email up on the Patreon saying, look, I really like the podcast, but can I have a refund because of all the references to the hosts being

beatophiles? I'm fine with historical paedophilia. What? The idea that you're going to transfer you £22. Because Charlie says he's a paedophile. No. He's non-offending. Much like General Dord.

He's dormant. I mean, we're all non-offending paedophiles technically, aren't we? Aren't we? Aren't we? I'm a non-offending murderer, aren't I? Right, yeah. I guess. You could just say not offending anything if you're not that.

I'm a paed-a-fair. Right, but we were getting on to some pretty interesting historical ground, actually. Yeah, and I was the one who tried to quash it, but you went, you indulged him. I did, I did. You should never indulge this boy. Anyway, so Gordon is tasked with extending Egyptian Central Authority along the Nile down the Sudan. I think a lot of the villages and settlements

along the Nile in the Sudan are basically like slave raiding ports. So he is pursuing... Because the Arabs are unbelievable slavers and have been for hundreds and hundreds of years. They enslaved whites. Okay? Let's be clear.

In the 17th century off the coast of Libya, the Barbary pirates, the Arabs, they stole the Irish, the Spanish, and the Italians, and they made them slaves. And it is quite funny because I can't really think of three more work-shy groups of people than Irish Italians and Spaniards. Anyway, obviously that didn't work out in the long run because...

But reparations, please. It makes you feel sorry for the slave owners of anything. But obviously they go, these slaves don't work. Let's turn around and go down Africa. Yeah, you go online shopping and the clothes don't fit. Yes. Right. Do I have to get them back?

I'm going to go somewhere else. I'm going to turn around and these guys... It's too. It's taught. Please, I want to break. When is break time? When is four hour lunch? When it's four or five hour lunch? He's crazy. You're making me work twice in day. What's going on? I go wake up early. I have to go bed. Ladies, crazy. I'm sorry, it's not worth it actually. It's not worth it. No, I don't want, why I wear cotton? I don't want cotton. I don't want cotton. I don't want cotton. Anyway, the Greeks and the Italians made bad slaves. But that didn't stop the Arabs trying.

He's an abolitionist. He's an S.J. He's woke as hell. He died his hair, his hair blue, at this point. But Gordon, he's kind of, he finds it difficult because it's so embedded slavery in Egypt and Sudan. So he goes back to England in 1876. But it's because of industrialisation, right, that means you can move beyond slavery. Yes, I guess so. Because it's like robot hoover's.

Yes. Yeah. And that's why in the Americans of a war, the industrialized north didn't need slaves as much as the rural South. Yes, interesting. The southern economy was still... Yeah, because everyone says it was more a moral issue, but it was basically they could afford not to do it and the southern economy couldn't.

Gordon gets kind of disheartened at the amount of slavery and the kind of impossibility of the task. So he goes back to England in 1876, but a month in England, he decides to go back to Sudan because he gets bored. Maybe all his wangs have grown up. And he now asks to be made Governor General of the entire soon. I guess because he wants actual power to stop the slavery. When he gets there, he abolishes public floggings, which must...

So he's a spoil sport? I imagine he probably quite like the flogging things with the sexuality as well. He disbands the irregular forces and he puts petition boxes. So like private floggings, not public flogging. Please. Keep it to yourself. Whatever you do in the comfort of your own home. That's it.

It's been you and God. But not in the public square. He suppresses some major rebellions. And by 1880, the slave trade in Sudan had been largely broken. He suppressing a major rebellion, him fight. against his own pedophilia? No, well, yes, I guess so. He then also smashed the gangs.

Gordon smashes the slave gangs in Sudan in 1880. And he exhausted, he returns to England, having resigned, having felt like he's done his job. But again, he gets bored in England. So then at some point he goes to Mauritius. And this is fucking hilarious. Charlie, you're going to love this bit. He thinks he finds the biblical garden of Eden. and he thinks he finds the tree of knowledge in Mauritius,

which is the Coco de Mare palm tree, where the fruit resembles a human buttocks, and then there's another bit of the fruit that it looks like a big dick. He thinks the tree of knowledge. What does that then mean in the story? The thing about Protestantism versus Catholicism is that you can have your own interpretations

of these things. So it does mean that an individual can come up with this sort of shit. Yes. So he thought the tree, because there were two fruits, one of them looked like a dick, the other one looked like a big boulder.

This must be the garden of Eden. This is like the Garden of Eden. This embodies carnal desire. But also is a man who seemingly is not having sex. So when he sees a butt tree, he goes insane. But what's quite funny is he then thinks

the forbidden fruit is this tree, which would mean that Eve eating the apple is Eve eating the apple is Eve, taking your big sort of cactus willie and like, oh. Adam's like, don't go down on that fucking plant, would you? It's weird. And then Eve's like, yeah, yeah, whatever.

Yeah, it's a bit on the, it'll be a bit on the nose, I feel. Rimming the bum fruit. Because I think the symbolism of the apple forbidden fruit that works. I don't think it needs to be a cock and balls tree. No. It's the cock, the serpent, who tells Eve to then eat the ass of the cocoa fruit. So Eve's like, oh, oh. But you never see that. It does look like an ass. It really looks like an ass.

Can that be a coincidence? No, no, no. Listen. Can that be a coincidence? Charlie asks, can that be a coincidence? I'm not saying it doesn't look like an ass. What I'm saying is it's a big leap from that tree looks like an ass to that's the tree of knowledge from the garden of heaven.

We could have come from that maybe. No. When you say can that be a coincidence, follow that train of thought. Well, like it's too perfect. It looks like a perfect. Too perfect for what? To not be, for us not to be related to it. It looks exactly like us.

But I guess shapes in. nature often repeat. It's not a fucking bunder. Yeah, a bunder. Anyway. Because most living things have a bunder of sorts, right? No, I've never seen a bunder like that.

Listen, Gordon goes to Mauritians and finds a bunder tree and has a religious sort of moment. He has not busted his entire life. No. He basically has like a vision of God when he sees a bunda plant. Meanwhile, political turmoil in Egypt and the Sudan is intensifying. There's an Urabi revolt. in Egypt with only ends with British intervention.

And in Sudan, we get to the Islamic leader, the proto-jihadi, Muhammad Ahmed the Mardi. And this is, I think he's a Sufi, not Mohammed Atta Charlie, but again, it's a long road to Mohammed Atta. I think he's a Sufi Muslim, which is mystical. Right.

And he... Is Sufi Muslim? Are they the ones that are linked to Iran? The more mystical. We talked about Sufis in Iran. And I think that train of Islam is in Iran. Charlie, quick note, whenever we're talking about Islam and we want to know something, I really want to get it right.

Yeah. Famously. I think they'd appreciate that. They really appreciate it. They really appreciate you trying to get it right. So Sufis are into like mystical. So yes, he was a Sufi scholar. And Sufi Muslims are there.

Yeah, I don't know. There's a branch. It's a minor branch. It's a, it's a minor branch. It's more mystical. Yeah, it's more mystical. to call than others on. Anyway, the Mahadi, Muhammad Ahmed, he claims that he is now, has he seen the Prophet Muhammad or he's kind of related to the Prophet Muhammad? Weirdly, there's a lot of this

in this story because General Gordon has his own quite mad relationship with God. He's coming up with his own theories that this bum tree is the tree of knowledge. You have the millenarian uprising in the China. So a lot, this seems to be basically just the people who are running stuff or causing the problems that people have just had their own interpretations. He used to be very... So he was a holy man. The Mahadi was a holy man who proclaims that he was a prophet sent from heaven to save Muslims from the cruelty of their rulers. So what the Mahdi does is he becomes a kind of anti-imperialist uprising figure, much like the Taiping Rebellion had. He who does not believe in me will be purified by the sword.

It's very, it's Proto bin Laden. He's Dr. Grumpykins in some ways. In some ways he's an early Dr. Grumpikins. Yeah. Proto Grumpykins. Proto Grumpykins. and the Martis revolution is backed by

the northern and western regions of Sudan so he's also known as El Mati El Muntazar or the expected one and he claims he's immortal and would never die he does though Clash it. An army of 11,000 under the command of an English officer is sent to attack

Cartoon opens Yes so they are Ottoman troops They're Egyptian troops which aren't well trained But they have an English man in charge And they are led into a trap quite brilliantly by the Mahadi because the Mahadi actually his forces are very tactically sophisticated

and they have quite good weapons and they've got local knowledge right like the Taliban they use the hills they use the desert and out of 11,000 men only 11 return to Egypt they get fucking so few men wiped out

yeah and they also all their weapons that ammunition I think Gatling guns are now in the hands of the Mahadi so it is equivalent to the Americans arming the Mujahideen go to the Soviets and then the Mujahideen taking

the... So there are two Englishmen now left in Sudan. Colonel Kurt Logan and Frank Power, who's the correspondent of the Times. They start telegraphing back home saying it was hopeless for the Egyptian troops in the Sudan to hold out against the Mahadi

and Gordon... Because they're disorganised and the Mahadi have this kind of religious ferocity that means that they're quite like, they're united in one mission. They believe in something. Yeah. Now Gordon believes that if you give the Sudan up to the Mahadi there would be no limit to his power because he sees the Mahadi for what it is

they're talking about a caliphate it's like Victorian ISIS and Gordon sees that and goes well they're going to then take over the whole Arab Muslim world and they're also going to bring slavery back big time and Gordon is anti-slavery

so it's they're both two people with really strong religious convictions going up against each other in many ways with completely conflicting world views Blair Bush versus Saddam. It's liberal intervention for their own good, you know, kind of thing. Yeah.

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At this point, Gordon is back home, he's still writing about the big bum tree. And he has had an offer. He gets a call. He's had an offer. He's had an offer from a friend of the pod, Leopold of Belgium

who wants That's a tough one Yeah No That's a tough one for me Turn to the pod Leopold the second of Belgium Who is up to no good in the Congo

And he's asking for Gordon To come and oversee it Now people are up We will do Gordon doesn't know what's going on there Barely anyone knows at this point I don't know what's going on I think

We can't know But we will do a series On the Belgian Congo Don't worry First they came up to Jimmy Seval and then the king, Leopold II. And I said nothing. But when they came after Leopold the second,

I also said nothing. You know, he's weeks away from going, he's accepted the job for Leopold, and he's going to go married to the Belgian Congo. But Gladstone, the prime minister at the time, a woke liberal, SJW, non-interventionist, Rosebud, nymph of a man.

He does not want troops involved in the Sudan. Yeah. Gladstone, basically, there's a lot of pressure, and there's a lot of scenes in this in the film. Oh, he's a strong advocate for South government. Yeah, right. Woke nonsense. Anyway, there's a lot of pressure on Gladstone to intervene to protect the Egyptians' ability

to pay the debt back to Britain from the Suez Canal. Right. So it's very complicated. Yeah. But basically, he does not want to get dragged into it because he doesn't really believe in troops on the ground, He's sort of anti-imperialist, Gladstone, which at this time... He's Jimmy Carter a little bit.

Almost, but he's like... It's funny to be an anti-imperialist at the height of the British Empire. It's quite difficult. There's so many competing interests, like the realpolitik is that you have to maintain the empire. But he doesn't really believe in expansion for its own good. So he's very polar opposite to Gordon. What he does is he then says, okay, we're going to send one man, this madfucker Gordon, who's been drawing big bum trees.

We're going to get him off that. But also, something we have not mentioned is Gordon is a national hero and there's media. It's a celebrity. Celebrity. So it's sending Gordon to them, it looks like we're sending our best guy. This is very famous in the,

which is a new sort of fame that's only come about with the rise of the newspapers. Yes. But is that equivalent, is it like sending like Beckham? Yeah. Kind of. Genuinely. It'd be like,

when we send Beckham or Bear Grills. And Sebastian Co. Co. To try and get the Olympics. It's a similar thing. Right. It's sending Aunt Middleton to sort out, you know, Greenland or whatever. Or is it sending Aladais down, give it, you know.

Pind a wine. Give it Aladais. So anyway, so what Gladstone does is he sends Gordon to organise the evacuation of the Egyptian garrisons that are in Khartoum and a few other, like, Europeans. Gordon issues press statements attacking the rebels as a, quote, feeble lot of stinking dervishes. Is dervish a slur? Sounds it. Can we Google that child? I want to know.

That sounds like a compliment if it comes after not stinking. It's a Muslim mystic. Right. So there you go. Okay. My old boss was a dervish, a whirling dervish. He used to be trained with some monks and he would like stand on nails and then spin. Like a spinning top?

Yeah. Right. What job was that? At the studio where they had that fanny. Was that your boss? Right. He had a sonic orgasm chair which you can make you bus purely based on vibration. This is him.

Hang on. There he is. This is him. This is my boss. This is this chair that makes you come. Is it like a boiler room set, but it makes you come? Sorry, right. We are watching a video now of a woman in a room

that looks like a hostage situation. The woman is in an invasivating chair. Is that your boss at the mixing desk? He's like David Gwettering. Her cum. He's Fred again. He literally is. Right.

Wow. This lady actually comes. Okay. So that's what a dervish is. Is that what those matters? chairs and service stations do? I'm always scared to get on one. It made me like hallucinate a bit, but I did not bus.

Right. Listen, I think it's probably different for women and men. Yeah. Different mechanics of players. We need the quick shot launch masturbator. Now, if they had those in service stations, I would stop every. If Chevely services had a little station by the, you know, by the kids' aeroplane when the kids get in. Yeah.

If they also had a quick shot launch masturbated chair for the dad's. It wouldn't take long either. No, it wouldn't be great. You put a pound in the, in the airplane. You go, right. kids you ride on the pepper pig truck for 10 minutes I'm just going to go get a burger king and get a quick shot launched

and then I'll get back on the road If you ever got a tense dad on holiday That's what the ad would be A really stressed out dad in the holiday Getting the quick shot launch The best dad ever Oh yeah Anyway

So Gordon sends a telegram to cartoon Saying don't be panic-stricken Ye are men not women I'm coming Gordon and his mission is to protect lives while preparing for the withdrawal so he arrived in Khartoum

18th of February 1884 now there are 7,000 Egyptian troops 27,000 civilians now this is where he sort of takes matters into his own hands rather than just obeying orders and evacuating Khartoum he declares that his intention is to

sort of administer the whole of Sudan and to fight off the Madi and basically win a great battle so he reverses several policies that the Egyptians has introduced. He also starts trying to bolster Khartoum's defences, which is sort of building on his engineering skills that he had in the Crimean War.

He keeps asking Britain for some help. Gladstone keeps refusing because they're still intent upon not getting embroiled in a military intervention. So Gordon starts to resent the government's policy and his telegram has become more and more bitter.

Quote, I leave you with the indelible disgrace of abandoning the garrisons and added that such a British course in policy, who would be a climax of meanness. Climax of meanness? Yes. Meanness doesn't... It's a bit silly.

It's not mincing as words. I think cruelty would probably be a better word than meanness. Now, by April 1884, the Mardi start besieging cartoon. And from April, it's now cut off. Right. So the city... They're starving it out. They're starving it out.

They've got lots of food, six months worth of food. I'd probably get through that in a week. But Gordon has... Is a much better temperament than I do. The fat is a... Egyptian woman, that's maybe a meal or two, you know. But she will live nearby. In a hundred years time.

She won't be far. She will be born in Egypt. Yeah. They'll both be on the Nile. They're both on the Nile. Exactly. It's comforting to know that journey up the Nile, a hundred years time. It's a journey through time.

And the heaviest women have ever lived. A journey through history. Anyway, so Gordon starts writing letters to the Mahadi, telling him to accept the authority of the Egyptian Khadiv. And then the Mahdi replies saying, saying, no, why don't you convert to Islam? He will be a bit of a broken record in that regard. He says that to most suggestions. No, you need to be Muslim.

No, you need to be Christian. No, you need to be Muslim. So to keep up morale, Gordon has a military band perform concerts every Friday and Sunday evenings. That's nice. Great idea. Morale is key. The government keep ordering Gordon to return to Cairo,

but he refuses saying, I'm not abandoning the city. I've finally got them to stop slaving. Okay, we've got a band performing twice a weekend. we're having a lovely time. By 1884, by July 1884, Gladstone realizes and again, this is... Old Stinyy Gladstone finally puts his hands in his pockets.

Yeah, and he sends an expedition to relieve cartoon, but that's because of a lot of newspaper pressure. Yeah. Because, as you say, he's a hero. So 9,000 British troops are led by Sir Walsley. They set off, but they take month to organise. In the film, they're portrayed as basically already being in Egypt, but just staying there

to acclimatize to the conditions. for like weeks. Falling off camels and stuff. Yeah. And just trying to deal with their sweat patches. Yeah. So by the end of 1884,

the garrison and the entire population of Khartoum are starving to death. There are no horses, donkeys, cats or dogs left because they've eaten them all. Sure. Again, this is before the fastest woman in Egypt was alive.

So Gordon now says, and this is again, this is a, frankly, from a military perspective, insane move, but again, this is his decency and his moralism. He tells the civilians, of cartoon that anyone who wishes to can leave and they can join the Matty if they want. Oh, okay.

Yeah. Half the population then just do that. They leave and go and join the enemy. But Gordon is a, you know, he's a moralist. If you don't like it, then you can leave. Is it like that? I don't think he says it like that. Okay, right.

In my head, he doesn't. But he keeps asking for Woolsey to fucking get on with it and then come here and arrive. Now, Gordon had sent out some steamers who were sent to provide. like quicker transport for Walsley's troops, but then they spend loads of time making the steamers bigger to accommodate more people. They're dithering, they're wasting time.

They're filibustering. They are filibustering. They are filibustering their way down the Nile. A moment later, a runner brings in a message saying that the city's about to fall, and then after that, another runner brings a message saying, actually it's fine, we can hold out for years, signed by Gordon.

And they decide to please... He's getting a bit mad now. They believe the second message. Okay, right. It's two different messages. The second one is Gordon saying, no, we're actually going to be fine. Right.

But there's someone else who's maybe more realistic saying, no, we're fucked here. Anyway, so there's now this tent standoff where the city is under siege from the jihadis and the reinforcements are dithering down the Nile, or up the Nile, then which way it goes, to get to Cartoon. Supposedly, in his last week's,

Gordon is a chain-smoking, rage-filled, desperate man wearing a shabby uniform. He spent hours talking to a mouse and he shared his office with. So that's where we're at. That's where we're at. Yeah. He's now talking to a mouse.

He's gone fucking mad. Yeah. So we get to the fateful moment in January 1885 where the Mahadi who are aware of the British advancing from Egypt, they decide to assault cartoon before the Brits arrive.

Smart. And Walsy reaches cartoon two days after everything's gone to shit everything's gone to shit it's so tragic that ultimately Gladstone's dithering

means that cartoon falls on the night of 25th of January 50,000 Mahadists attack the city wall they break through the entire garrison gets killed because low morale maybe some of the band members left when he set the city free yes that's true

maybe that's why the morale yeah morale goes because there's no one playing tunes no one's on the orcs. And now there's accounts differ as to how Gordon is killed. There's a painting where he's seen at the top of the stairs with his cane

just sort of swatting away dervishes. And some people say he died, fires you on the stairs. Others say that he was wounded by a spear and kept fighting. That's exactly how they make it look in the film. They base it on this painting. This is a famous painting of him,

standing at the stairs with his fez and his cane What else do you need? Just basically saying, stop it. Come on. Come on. Stop it.

Yeah. I think what actually happened is that he's decapitated. Yeah. His head's chopped off. You know, ISIS be ISIS. Yeah. They Facebook live. They Facebook live stream him with a box cutter in an orange jumpsuit.

That's what they do. His head is... Did you ever watch one of those? Yeah, yeah. Does it ever leave you? No. I think it traumatized me for life. I once...

I still remember this. I saw it when I was 14. I saw someone... nicest member to capitate a guy who didn't look too dissimilar from me with a box cutter and yeah I'll never forget it. I saw, I wasn't a shock by that because I had seen something age 12

on a fucking like Nokia flip phone when they first put videos on phones. I saw a guy a Chechnan get his head cut off with like a fucking bread knife by a Russian in the snow and I think about that maybe

twice a month. Yeah. Gordon body is dumped in a well. His head is packaged up and sent to the Mardi who orders it to be fixed between the branches of a tree where, quote, all who passed it could look at it in disdain, children could throw stones at it and the hawks of the desert could sweep and circle above. Whereas in the film cartoon, the Mardi

played by the very white Lawrence Olivier. Yeah, not white in this film. No. He's Justin Trudeauing this performance. Yeah, for sure. He has a deep respect for Gordon and... It's the intellectual backbone of the film with these conversations they have. Yeah, and he's heartbroken. Yeah, to that one difference.

We're going to talk about the cartoon film on the Patreon this week as our bonus episode. But five months after the capture of cartoon, the Mahdi dies of typhus. Take that. So, yeah. I have that, mate. Now, this basically,

so the consequences of this, firstly, I think Gladstone essentially unravels his premiership. His fourth premiership. No, this is his second or third. Right. Victoria sends a telegram which finds its way

into the press which says the news from Khartoum is frightful to think this might all have been prevented and saved by pretty precious life saved by earlier action

is too fearful. So he basically gets people throw stones at 10 Downing Street. Right, right. Wow. Yeah, Beckham gets decapitated. Yeah, you've let Beckham

get decadated by ISIS. You fucked it, mate. Yeah. So Gladstone tells the cabinet that public cared. But this is global news. well it's not just huge just the biggest guy in the world or in the british in the anglosphere has been decapitated when if you got there two days earlier yeah you and not just that i saw

a ticot which was a guy saying in terms of alternative history if walsy and the forces had arrived in time to save cartoon and they had defeated the martyrs forces and the british had actually taken over sudan and egypt then the scramble for africa which leads to World War I in terms of Empire's Josh's position would not have happened because the French and Germans

would not have been able to get a foothold in Africa which this video then claims The Britain has to come to negotiate in table because France Germany get a foothold because they don't have Sudan. It basically means the way he framed it was that World War I could have been avoided. Yeah.

Yeah, they say that the day... But yeah, it's just such so many butterflies. Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't. have, it's like, yeah, without this, I wouldn't have a rectal dysfunction. It's like, you're going, you're making so many leaps, you know.

Whoa. I mean, probably, I wouldn't have a tiny knob. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I guess. If you, you know, if you're not, if you're not wasn't so small, maybe you can get it up. What are you saying? You just keep adding, when you do these sort of history, you just keep adding stuff.

I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't know anything about a rectal dysfunction. Do you struggle to get? No, actually, I don't. Actually, to be honest. Sorry, baby, this is actually about cartoon. Yeah. If we arrived two days earlier,

I'd be able to put this in you. No, actually, it's something that... This is all William Gladstone's fault. Yeah. My floppy Willie. Exactly. I mean, you can draw a line with any history. Yes.

I guess the excuses you sort of make up. If you have a good handle on history, you can really make it, you know. Yeah, it really helps having an ignorant girlfriend. No, this is... He's not a rectal dysfunction. It's Gladstone's fault for not intervening in Sudan two days earlier. I think you'll find this is the

this goes back to 1885. Anyway, Gordon's death causes this huge wave of national grief. In 1898, Lord Kitchener, he of this country needs you, fame, leads an expedition to block the French

from regaining control of the Sudan and he goes back to avenge Gordon. Churchill's also here at this point. And what Kitchener does... Churchill does love Gordon. What Kitchener does is he finds the grey, of the Mardi he digs him up

and blows it up. He blows up the tomb as revenge. Doesn't that look like that's a very... Fuck off. Fuck, just fuck off.

He disinteres the body of the Mardi and then beheads it as revenge. One all. That is one all. We'll call it a draw. Yeah.

The headless body the matty is thrown into the Nile. Horatio Herbert Kitchner. There you go. That. When the name Horatio wasn't weird.

Yeah, I mean I guess this story does feel like I haven't really earned my moustache looking at some of these men But then can you be called to ratio and not have a mustache? Exactly, so you know, I'm sort of snookered. You are snookered.

Lord Kitchener kept the Matty's skull and it was rumoured that he used it as a drinking cup or an ink well. It's quite a classic thing to do with warfare, right? Yeah, and this is, I mean, this is lovely... Because I feel pretty smart if my enemy's head

was a sort of, I don't know. But it's similar to what they do... I had a hot chocolate out of it. Do you reckon they did that? should have done up with bin laden skull. Genuinely. Like, I think we were too lived out

with how we dealt with bin Laden. Yeah. Give him like a religious burial. And also it, I like the idea that, you know, drown him and poo, for example.

Yeah, you've got a skull and you're using it as a cup. Whereas now, the guy that actually shot Bin Laden's got a fucking podcast for a cell t-shirts saying, I kill bin Laden. It's like, it's a bit,

do you know, have some class. Yeah, has some class. You know? Blow up a tomb. Yeah. Anyway.

Gordon is portrayed. And this kind of, for me, this, you know, The death of Gordon, I guess it signals the beginning of the end of the empire's moral certainty. Yeah. I think.

The romance. The romance of it starts to go. Yeah. And this is the long road to 9-11. That's what I mean. The long roads to erecton dysfunction. The long road. There's so many long roads.

I don't know if we can really say, historically, this is why you can't get it up at night. Well, I'm saying one. Okay. Anyway. That has been Gordon. of Khartoum. The reason why Horatio struggles sometimes to get it up.

If you'd like... But one could blame it on that. If you'd like more, we will be unpacking the 1966 epic cartoon on the Patreon. Thanks very much for stopping by. We'll see you next week for a brand new topic. Farewell. Goodbye.