Financial Feminist - 119. How to Travel On Any Budget with Katy Nastro (Going)

Episode Date: October 10, 2023

If you love to travel, but the thought of spending thousands of dollars on airfare gives you anxiety — this episode is for you. In this episode of the Financial Feminist podcast, host Tori Dunlap sits down with Katy Nastro, spokesperson and travel expert at Going.com. Tune in for a fun conversation about all things travel. From becoming a more ethical traveler to saving money on airfare, Katy shares her favorite tips and tricks for exploring the globe without breaking the bank. Read transcripts, learn more about our guests and sponsors, and get more resources at https://herfirst100k.com/start-here-financial-feminist-podcast  Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This concept of roots versus wings. Wings are when you're in this period of life, usually when you're younger, where you want to experience and do and you just you have this insatiable appetite of exploration and so you're constantly trying to go to a new place that's always on your mind. Where can I go next? Where can I go next? Then get a little older, get a little wiser and you start to appreciate those places that you want once and you root yourself and dig in a bit more to those places and you go back and you have different experiences there. You really take that time to dig in. Hi, financial feminists. Welcome back to the show.

I hope you are as excited to be here as I am. We are talking about travel today, which is one of my all-time favorite things to discuss. If you are the person who is just bitten by the travel bug and you want to see as many countries and places as possible, but you're also like, how the fuck do I afford that? And how do I figure out all of the travel hacks that I see TikTok talking about or that I see written in blogs? How can I do this

for myself? Even if I don't have a ton of time, then perfect. This episode is going to be great for you. A reminder before we get into it, you can subscribe wherever you're listening right now to make sure that you're getting episodes delivered whenever they come out. As a reminder, it's not only great for you because you get those episodes, but because it's a great way to support your favorite podcasts. Subscribes and the amount of people who subscribe is a huge metric for us as podcasters. So one of the best things you can do for us is just hitting that plus or subscribe button wherever you're listening right now. On Spotify, it's a button called follow. And I believe on Apple, it's either

subscribe or a plus button. If you have questions about the content we produce, if you have financial questions or maybe questions from this episode, you can go to speakpipe.com slash financial feminist. It's also in our show notes to leave us a voicemail either with a question or a win. We would love to hear from you. All right, let's talk about Katie. Katie started her career in digital media after attending Boston college and early stint at the Boston Globe helped expose her to the many facets of the publishing industry until ultimately leaving to explore becoming a freelance writer and an on-camera host.

Combining media pursuits, writing and video with her love for travel and sport, Katie was able to work on large-scale sporting events like the 36th America's Cup, Formula E, and Sail GP. Through event work and freelancing, Katie was able to hit 30 countries before turning 30 and work with brands internationally like the US sailing Olympic team,

Sperry Topsider, LATAM Airlines, Red Bull, and more. Travel has always been a huge part of Katie's life. And so it was a match made in heaven when Going hired her to be their spokesperson and travel expert back in November. You might know that Going used to be Scott's Cheap Flights. It got rebranded a little bit ago. And personally, this is me talking as Tori.

It's one of my favorite companies. I use it all the time and you'll hear me talk about it throughout the episode. We also have a link to Going if you want to learn more in our show notes. We chat about all the things booking cheap and affordable flights and travel, including debunking the biggest traveling myths like does the day you book your flight actually matter, how to make the most out of your trips no matter how long you have, and how to change how you travel as you age and as you progress in life. Katie is such a wealth of knowledge, one of my favorite episodes in terms of content. I just love learning

about all of this and learning about travel hacks and good travel information. So let's go ahead and get into it. But first a word from our sponsors. so i was just in ireland studied abroad there got the going email and it was 360 round trip from seattle to dublin and i was like this is cheaper than it is to get me to new york or sometimes los angeles which is crazy oh i'm sure'm sure. I'm sure. That's incredible. Yeah, we're seeing a lot of great deals. We're so excited to have you on the show. Can you give us a little backstory on when you first realized you love traveling? Like where was your first vacation or the travel destination you remember? Yeah, sure. This is a loaded question, but I'll go back. I'll go way back to little Katie. We would go on two trips a year, one in the winter

as a family and then one in the summer as a family. And, you know, we would go on two trips a year, one in the winter as a family and then one in the summer as a family. And you know, we would go down to Florida, I remember that quite well, West Florida, Sanibel, Captiva Island area. And then we'd go out to Vail in the summer, which is a little bit different. A lot of people go skiing in Vail, but we would go in the summer and we would go whitewater rafting and horseback riding and hiking and do all these amazing things, which, yes, definitely go out west in the summer. It's incredible. But I think the first time and I always enjoyed that. But I think the first time that I really said like, wow, travel is I think my thing is when I did a study abroad course. It was the first international solo trip I took over to London. My parents

drove me to the airport, you know, said their goodbyes. And then I'm on the plane. I'm like, to London. My parents drove me to the airport, you know, said their goodbyes. And then I'm on the plane. I'm like, Oh, wow, this is it. Nobody's with me. I got to navigate how to get to my dorm room from here. And it's not the New York City subway. It's tidally different public transit system that I have to navigate now on my own. But it really I mean, I think London was a great kind of dip into that pond just because it's so I'm from New York. And it's so similar in so many ways. It's a big city. There's a lot of different cultures happening all at once, busy, busy, busy. And it was just my peek into a world that I didn't even know existed or had thought about. Travel was like, oh, yeah, it's something fun to do that I do with my family. But now it's like, huh, wow, this is really something that's not only something I can do

with family and friends, but it's something that I can do for myself. I was going to dive into this later, but you gave me the perfect opportunity to now. My study abroad experience was very similar. It was the first time I was on my own. I was 20 years old. It was like, okay, I'm cooking for myself. I'm navigating all of this for the first time. And I remember in that moment, same as you feeling like, oh, it's just me. Like for the first time in my life, it's just me figuring this out. I had some classmates there, but we weren't close. It felt like, oh my gosh, this is just me. And at first that was terrifying. This feeling of, oh, if something happens, if, you know, if I can't get the classes that I want, if I can't find your dorm room or your house, it's, oh my gosh, it's all me. And then it becomes this feeling

where you're like, oh, I can do do anything if I can navigate the public transportation system if I can figure out all of these things if I can get myself on a flight and I am safe and I get my bag and I figure out how to get to the hotel like what an independence booster and that for me has been my favorite feeling when I'm traveling is just my self-reliance and my self-trust has gone up so much because, oh, it's just me. I got to figure this out. And then when I do, because I inevitably do, it's like, oh, I can do anything. You feel like a superhero. It is the best boost of self-confidence that anybody could have. I travel so much alone nowadays and in the past than I do with groups that it's almost

funny when I do travel with groups. I came back from France with a group of people that I've grown up with. I've known since like fourth grade. And it was just so funny to me because I'm so used to just operating alone while traveling and, you know, do this, do that, you know, all these things. And then I'm like, oh, wait, no, I'm with people. I got to worry about that, which is it's a really special thing when you are able to and have the confidence or just feel like, you know what, I'm going to try it to be able to travel alone. I think for women especially, it is so empowering. And I think it's important if you can take one solo trip in your life just to experience it all. It's magic.

I will also say, I don't know if you know this about me, is the flight I booked to Dublin will be Friend Moon 24. I go on a honeymoon style trip with my best friend every year that we lovingly call friend moon. It's my favorite time of year. And we were in New Zealand last year, we're going to Morocco this year. And I think we actually found maybe the Morocco flight on a going to London. And then we're getting the Ryanair flight from London to Morocco. Hey, you know what? It's perfect. You're getting there. Yeah, you're getting there. Exactly. And I think that was the other thing is I've traveled by myself and I love doing that and also just traveling with other women. I know that there's this myth

out there that, oh, it's unsafe to travel by yourself as a woman or unsafe to travel in groups of women. Can you talk to me about that? Because I have not encountered bad situations. Actually, the most sketchy situation I've ever encountered was the friend moon that we did in our own country in the US. So what are your thoughts about that? Yeah, you know, that's a great question. I've actually had old acquaintances from high school reach out and be like, I would love to take a trip alone. But I am I am worried about it just traveling alone as a solo female. And and I'm, you know, it's it kind of pains me that we live in a world where you have to even think twice about that. You know, you have to consider where you're going, you know, what time of night you're traveling in, are you arriving at

night? You know, are you arriving early in the morning? You know, are people going to be around all these things that you do have to consider? Obviously, the world is a big place. That's not saying that everywhere is safe, but that's also not saying that everywhere is dangerous. And I think as a woman, you shouldn't be scared to go places, but obviously, yeah, you should be highly aware of where you're going, what you're doing. I hate giving the tip of like, yeah, research places before you go, but it is important to just kind of get a feeling and a sense, you know, there's amazing Facebook groups out there and, you know, Reddits and whatnot. It's just so much material out there for women to be able to travel together. And, you know, one great tip I can impart, there is a company called We Go Lightly, which is a female based kind of home sharing or Airbnb just for women. And, you know, if you don't feel

comfortable staying in a hotel or staying at an Airbnb with men or, you know, hosted by men, yeah, check them out. There are so many more resources now than I think there were 10, even five years ago, 20 years ago, when it definitely was a different world. Maybe it was safer back then, or maybe things weren't reported back then, but I don't think you should live in fear and not go to the places you want to see just because there, you know, has been something happening in the last few years, or somebody had said, yo, don't go there, I had a really terrible experience, you know, take that, internalize it, you know, think about it and process it. And, you know, be smart about where you're going and what

you're doing. Yeah, I almost see it as two different issues. There's the safety issue, which is 100% real and something to be aware of, right? Of course. And at the same time, a confidence issue, I think they often get lumped in as the same thing which is like oh my gosh i can never travel alone and then it becomes like oh well i wouldn't feel safe if that's actually how you feel analyze if that's true or not because again like you said there's some places that are safer than others right but i think that often is the thing that we're either told my well-intentioned parents who are travelers when i was in my early 20s they're like you're not going to this very safe place by yourself. And I'm like, no, I'm going to go to this very safe place by myself. Like I'm doing fine. I know how to get around. I have enough. I know how to do this. And if I

don't, I'll figure it out. I have a credit card. I'll get myself out of whatever situation I have to get out of. I'll be fine. And so I think there is a level of, yes, being aware of your surroundings, being aware of risk. But on the flip side, I think there is like a confidence issue that a lot of women feel they just don't feel confident enough in themselves to be able to navigate it. And I want to encourage them to work through that because there is something so beautiful waiting on the other side of that. Preach. I literally say I wish more women took more trips alone with other women. Just get out there. Don't be scared of going. Don't have fear of the unknown just because it isn't in your normal day to day routine because there's a big old world out there and it's pretty awesome and you shouldn't

be scared of it. Like we talked about before, it can be so empowering. Just even navigating a different public transport system, you know, getting yourself from the airport to your hotel alone without taking a cab or an Uber. You can do it. People do it every day. I did a female tour to Croatia and it wasn't supposed to be an all-female tour. It just happened to be that all the people that signed up were female. And I'm not really a tour person, but I have to say it was awesome. And we were women of all ages. And it was just such an incredible mishmash of women. And I think about that trip and I'm just like, wow, this was incredible.

I wish my friends or other women would just take a chance and do it. Yeah, it was great. Like if you're scared to go alone, consider a tour. I'm not really a tour person, but I have to say totally changed my mind. I love it. Let's talk about seals and deals. person, but I have to say totally changed my mind. I love it. Let's talk about seals and deals. What are the most pervasive myths you see around people looking for travel deals? And what are the correct ones? I see a lot of like, you can't book, you should book on this day, or like,

open an incognito window. Like talk to me about what's a myth versus what's actually true. Yeah, none of those that you just said. So okay, so some of the most popular ones out there are clearing your cookies, caches, whatever, Tuesday at 3pm, Saturdays, August 23rd, cheap flight day of the year, blah, blah, blah, blah, all of those are myths. They're incorrect. I'm sorry to say, you know, the airlines are not watching you and they're not watching your search histories. That's just not how that happens. Airfare is volatile. It can change on a dime. Perfect example. I had a flight in my cart. I hit book, flight no longer available because that price disappeared. And that happens. That's okay. You know, I think that's like the biggest misconception that there is a specific day

and specific time where you are going to get the cheapest price on that specific flight you're looking at. When in fact, there is no magic number. There is no magic bullet secret sauce. That's just not how it works. But there are things that you can do to give yourself the best odds at getting a great deal. So if you'd like me to indulge, if I can. So when you are looking for

a flight, there are things to be aware of in terms of, are you traveling in a peak season? Are you traveling in an off-peak season? We just came out of a peak season. So the summer is considered a peak season. And the next peak season would be the winter holidays. So Christmas, New Year's, Hanukkah, all of that, that beautiful little time period, that little condensed time period in December. But then there are off-peak seasons or shoulder seasons. We can just say off-peak seasons. So right now we're in an off-peak season. That's how you got that snag of a deal over to Ireland. We see a lot of great deals in off-peak seasons or shoulder seasons because it's not quite when a lot of people are looking to book. So airlines need to fill those seats and they bring those prices down and consumers like us can take

advantage of them. And hey, if you travel in an off-peak or a shoulder season, you get less tourists, you get better hotel deals, better prices. And, you know, I think a lot of people think that you should only travel in warm weather. That's not true. You know, the Eiffel Tower looks great in the middle of February, just as nice, just as bright and shiny, just as cool as it does in the middle of July. And it's probably half the cost to get there. So things to consider off-peak or peak. So when you are looking to book in an off-peak season, you should look to book domestic flights between one and three months out. Now, there's no magic day, again, in that window when you're going to find the cheapest price, but just look to book between that window to give yourself the best odds. If you're looking to fly international, a little bit more, about two to eight months. I know that seems like a big window, but airfare can fluctuate

so much in that time period. So, hey, say you have a going deal that pops in, or you just are on Google Flights, and or whatever search provider you like to use, you find a great deal, you book it, you have 24 hours to change your mind, get a full refund back to your credit card. Or say that flight actually drops again, two months later, you know, you booked pretty far out, booked seven months out, maybe four months, you see an even better deal on that same flight. Well, a lot of tickets these days, a lot of airlines will let you cancel that ticket, get that credit, and then just rebook at that lower price, save that little extra bit for a future flight. I mean, you're probably going to travel on that airline again. So it's not a total, total

waste. So that's for off-peak seasons so one to three and then two to eight if we're looking at peak seasons so if you are looking to book winter holidays you should look to book domestically between three and seven months out okay and then if you're looking for international a little bit more on either end so about four to ten months out and i know those seem like big windows but again airfare is so volatile that today's cheap flight could be tomorrow's expensive flight, so on and so forth. You just want to give yourself the best odds at finding a great price by booking within those windows. I can't stress this enough. There's not an exact day and time that your flight that you're looking at is going to be the cheapest. It's a lot of things happening behind the scenes. And then also, you know,

the whole, oh, if you travel on Tuesdays or if you have to travel on this time of the day, like that also is kind of a farce. But there's not a specific date and time to book when it's going to be cheapest. But, yeah, there are days where it can be a bit cheaper to travel on. Doesn't always guarantee it, but you should, you know, see if you can be a little bit flexible with when you travel. So Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Saturdays, you can do like a Wednesday to a Saturday if you're doing a long weekend. You know, maybe work remotely. We live in a day and age where a lot of us can work remotely and take advantage of that, which is awesome. And, you know, Mondays and Fridays are typically when business travelers tend to travel.

You know, they go to wherever they need to go in the beginning of the week, and then they want to end their week back at home. So those days, airlines understand that those travelers are less price sensitive, and they're going to just buy a flight last minute, doesn't matter what the price is. Whereas leisure travelers are a bit more price conscious. So you know, we look to travel on days when the prices are a little bit cheaper, and less people tend to travel on a Tuesday, Wednesday, or a Saturday, you know, it's not really a weekend thing with those. But if you can be a little bit flexible and again, work remotely, you can really take advantage of some better deals. That's not a guarantee that those are always going to be the cheapest days. But typically Thursday is kind of a wash and Sunday a ton of people travel home.

So kind of count those days out. I just want to highlight what you said about traveling in the off season. I want to tattoo October in Italy on my forehead. I have never, ever experienced a bad October in Italy. It feels like summer, except it's not stifling heat. It's not a hundred degrees. There are way less people. Things are way less expensive.

And yet I can still go swimming in the ocean i can still have a great experience i have only actually been in the last couple years when i've gone to italy i've only been in october and i cannot recommend it enough especially if you're in like northern italy where things feel warmer italy in october or september just absolutely lovely and i love what you said about the eiffel tower it's true paris is pretty any season you're just gonna get a different a different variation of what you want exactly different vibe different vibe I also want to highlight too what you said for people too about the 24-hour rule because there are so many times where I see a flight deal and then I'm like oh I you know I can't get a hold of Christine and I want to go with her or like I don't know if this

is going to work and then I miss out on the deal. So I think it's every airline, right? You can book the flight and it's in 24 hours. You decide you can't do it. You get a full refund, not even a credit, a refund to your credit card or to your debit card. Is that accurate? That is accurate, but there are nuances to this. So it has to be at least seven days out. So you can't pull a, you know, Oh my gosh, this, this great deal over has to be at least seven days out. So you can't pull a, you know, oh my gosh, this great deal over to South Africa just popped into my inbox and I have to leave tomorrow. But I don't know if I can go.

No, that does not apply. It has to be from or to the US. It can't be on, you know, say that Ryanair flight that you're going to take from Dublin elsewhere, as well as, yeah, seven days out, as well as to and from the elsewhere, as well as, yeah, seven days out, as well as to and from the US. And caveat to this, it needs to be booked directly with the airline. However, a lot of OTAs, so online travel agencies, like an Expedia, like a TravelZoo, you know,

wherever you're booking through, a lot of them do have their own sort of 24 hour, 48 hour, 32, whatever, rule that will let you get that refund. But a lot of the smaller ones that seem to have these kind of rock bottom prices compared to the other search engines out there, you're just like, huh, okay, be careful because some of them have a you bought, you know, you break, you bought it type deal where you buy that you buy that ticket, and you bought it, no refund, no 24-hour rule can apply. So just be mindful. If you have any doubt,

just book directly through the airline. That is guaranteed. We get a lot of questions from our community with this belief that I can't travel and also progress towards my financial goals. I can't spend money on travel right now. I can't save money at the same time. Can we talk about that? Because I think you can do both. I think you can progress towards your goals and have fun and see the world. Talk to me about how you feel about that. Oh, for sure. I think there is a big misconception that travel

is always expensive, that I can't travel because I don't have the funds. And, you know, it's only expensive flights out there or expensive hotel rooms when in fact, that that's not the case. They exist. Oh, heck, yeah, they exist. You know, if I wanted to book a flight from LA to Sydney right now, that's going to be extremely expensive last minute. But if I wait a couple months out, you know, I'm booking in my Goldilocks window. Yeah, that might be more affordable. Or hey, you know, a great mistake fare pops up from New York to Paris for 230 round trip. We live in a world where cheap flights are not only available when expensive flights

are, but they are abundant. The average price of airfare, okay, is actually cheaper today than it was 17 years ago, 2006. It's crazy. And right now, you know, we're seeing so many great deals over to Europe. You know, again, we're in this kind of shoulder season, but also all that pent up demand that we have from the pandemic is finally moderating. It's finally cooling off.

You know, so many people went to Europe this summer. Of course, crazy sky high prices when you were probably looking and you're probably looking last minute. So, you know, that doesn't mean that trip to Europe is totally far fetched out of the question because you don't have the funds. It just means, OK, maybe you're not going to go in the middle of July when everybody else is going. Maybe you wait a little while and you go in January and February when actually you can get flights up to 80% cheaper than when you try to fly in a peak season. So I do think that there is a misconception that it's either expensive or I just don't go when cheap flights and affordable vacations can be available. And nobody is saying that you need to go on 10 trips a year. I think, gosh, I think social media

kind of ruined that word. We have all these friends or, you know, we see all these people traveling so much and you're like, how do they do it? What the heck are they doing? Maybe they're really savvy and smart about it and they're staying in hostels and, you know, it's not as glamorous as it looks. Or, you know, maybe they are just prioritizing cheap flights and are finding great cheap deals you know so i i do think that it's not a one or the other i'm a big proponent of having a travel fund i think that you know stashing away a little bit each paycheck or i sell a bunch of stuff that i don't use on mercari and other websites just because I'm constantly trying to get rid of stuff. And, you know, I take all of my little funds that I get and I put them in my little travel bank. And it's not much, but it's something. And I think that anybody can do that.

I hate the idea that people think that they can't do both. They can't save for their future and they can't experience the now. And that experiencing of the now is also experiencing the world. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think you do have to find a balance. And if you prioritize and save for it, I think that there's a lot that can happen there. We've also talked in previous episodes that travel doesn't have to be the travel you see on Instagram, where it's like five star, four seasons, Bali vacation, right? It can just be like, I'm going upstate for two hours away on the weekend, or I'm just going to a different coffee shop today. That can be this experience of travel that doesn't have to be, oh, I'm going, you know, on this glamorous six week trip to Europe. Like, it doesn't have to be that if you can't afford that right now. Oh, yeah. 110%. Because of what

I do, I talk about air travel all the time, you know, constantly talking about air travel, but I love a road trip. Are you kidding me? I love a ferry. I love any type of transportation that gets me to a new place and has me, you know, existing in an area or a place that I haven't been in a while or I love to go back to. It's not just air travel that you can take to have a meaningful trip. You know, gosh, I drove from New York City up to Montreal during the end of September one year. The leaves change a little bit sooner up there. And it was so incredibly magical. The whole drive. It's a long drive. It's about seven hours. And it was incredible. And it was one of my most favorite trips. I was

there for only a couple of days, but it was awesome. Again, not a place that I was like like, oh gosh, I have to go and stay in this super fancy hotel and all these things. No, this was like years ago. I had not two pennies to my name and I was just like, I'm going to get in the car and I'm going to drive and I'm going to go to Montreal because it's a different place. I've never been. You know, our friends to the north, I think a lot of people forget about Canada. Canada is amazing. Like you said, it doesn't have to be this European vacation all the time. Not everybody has to go to Capri. There's so many places in the world. If you are out and experiencing new things or revisiting old favorites, I think that that's a win-win. Yeah. For Friend Moon 2020, late 2020, obviously, we didn't feel comfortable doing any air travel. So we got in the car and we drove to Glacier

in Montana. And that was bar none one of the most beautiful places I've ever been. Glacier, Montana in the first week of October, it was absolutely magical and as gorgeous, if not more so than many of the places I've gotten on a plane to see. So I just love that. You mentioned flight prices being low. I didn't even know that stat. That's crazy to me. What other factors go into flight prices in the first place? Right. So when you're thinking about airfare, you're probably thinking, okay, distance, that's probably going to be the main driver of how expensive my flight price is in general, when that's actually really only just a small piece of the pie. There's a lot of things

that go into it. But the single biggest factor that I think a lot of people don't realize on why or how expensive a certain route is, is competition. You can say all you want about Spirit, but if we didn't have them, we would have less competition and it would actually create upward pressure on prices on all the big airlines. So we want competition. We want budget airlines. You know, the more airlines that decide to fly to a certain area, the better. Like Norse Atlantic Airways is considered a long haul budget airline, and they're now flying from LA to Paris. And that adding then to the pressure, you know, you might be Delta loyal, but you hear about Norse, you should actually be excited. You should be happy. You know, I think a lot of people don't realize that, yes, if you live in a place where there is,

you know, one smaller airport, not a lot of airlines operating in and out of it. Yes, you're tending to not see those rock bottom prices like in New York and LA. But even big cities like Atlanta that, you know, are kind of hub heavy. Sometimes it's a little harder for people there to find deals because it's considered a hub. But the single biggest contributing factor as to why your ticket is the price it is, is how much competition there is on that specific flight path or that route. It's like supply and demand, right? Is that what it is? The more competition, the more they have to compete with each other.

Right. That's part of it. I was talking to Scott, the founder of the company, earlier today. And, you know, we're reading all this industry stuff and some people are saying like, oh, gas prices are going up. Jet fuel is going to go up. That's going to get dribbled down to consumers. When in reality, that's not necessarily the case. That's, again, one factor of the pie, as well as if airlines price too high, nobody's going to be buying their flights. You know, nobody's going to be taking these flights. So they have to be careful and, you know, not ice everybody out just to get a little bit more on their bottom line. It's that supply and demand as well. Yeah, it's competition with each other.

Yeah. One of the things I love about going is that you feature a lot of travel to hot spots, right? We were talking about like Paris before or Italy. But I also love that you feature some of the more off the beaten path locations. Is there an adjustment you have to make as a traveler when considering a non touristy destination? Yeah, that's a that's a really great question. You know, there are bucket list destinations out there you like you mentioned, and we've talked about, you know, Italy, Paris, Big Ben, Sydney Opera House, you know, all these beautiful and amazing places that so many people visit each year because they are so beautiful and amazing. They're very popular. But some of the most memorable trips that I've ever had that some

of my co workers have ever had, are two places that we didn't even consider, we never thought about, but then a great deal popped up. And it's like, you couldn't say no, or it just, it worked with your schedule or, you know, like all the things kind of fell into place that took you there. Perfect example, I was on a writing assignment in French Polynesia. And when people think of French Polynesia, they think of Tahiti and they think of Bora Bora. I went to both. Great, beautiful, amazing. I was on everybody else's honeymoon. I would not suggest going alone. Everybody's, you know, like being all romantic.

I'm jumping in the water and doing cannonballs every chance I could. So, side story. Yeah, you've got the snorkel mask on. You're like, you have to see this fish, guys. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, I'm life aquatic. Like, yeah, it's it's the whole

thing so you know amazing amazing place amazing amazing place but i had to go to this smaller island called taha and it's you know it's beautiful in its own right people go there to vacation but then i had to go to an even smaller it's Motu, even smaller island that had this one single resort, resort, I mean, 10 bungalows, like that was it. It was a husband and wife team. The husband was the chef. The wife was the general operator. And there was only one seating for dinner. You sat down with everybody, people from all over the world. And it was Robinson Crusoe, teak wood shells, like incredible. It was one of the best three days i've ever had so incredible in the middle of the incredible incredible but in my life growing up did i say like yeah i'm gonna go to the vahini island resort no that was never on my agenda but it was so so magical and

i think that we get so caught up with you know i, I have to go see, again, the Eiffel Tower, I have to go see Big Ben. And maybe you are just saving for that one trip because you don't want to take a chance on somewhere else. You only get one trip a year or, you know, you can only really afford one trip a year and that's okay. And as you should, take those things off the bucket list. list. But, you know, maybe you are prioritizing cheap flights and a really great deal falls in your lap. And maybe you find yourself in Peru and you are, you know, eating ceviche and taking a surf lesson and you never thought you'd be doing that. But it was such a great deal and it changes your world. And I think that you could maybe take more trips if you're prioritizing different places, you know, maybe second cities. Maybe, you know, you don't go to Paris, you go to Nice and you explore that area, which is an incredible city on its own. But, you know, Paris gets all the glamour. Of course, tick off every bucket list place that you've ever wanted to go to.

But don't brush off those kind of under the radar places because it could actually end up being one of the best trips you've ever taken. I could not agree more to this. The thing that I found, especially when Christine and I do friend moons is we went Australia, New Zealand last year, we went to Sydney, we saw the opera house, we did that, you know, we went to Wellington, the big city, and then we always make time for a city that neither of us have ever heard of. And we just drop ourselves in it because we're like, this looks nice. And typically it's like based on a cool Airbnb. It's like this Airbnb looks nice, great. So we stayed for a week in Raglan in New Zealand. No one's ever heard of it.

I love Raglan. How do you have it? I love Raglan. Raglan, cute, cruisy little beach town. It's incredible. I will show you, hold on. I literally have to show you right now. We can cut this if we want. This

Airbnb was one of the best Airbnbs I've ever stayed at in my entire life. Oh, yeah. I have to know. I love Raglan. My God. It was like a view of the water, hot tub, ping pong table, an hour from Hobbiton.

We had never heard of Raglan. We never, we didn't barely researched it before. We were just like, this Airbnb looks cool. And then we just dropped ourselves there. Yeah. And it's the best. It was the best. It's popular with people in Auckland and, you know, Kiwis in general,

just because it's a local beach vacation that you can take without leaving New Zealand. And it wasn't, it wasn't crazy expensive. We were there for a week, so we negotiated it down a little bit. It was so comfy. It was lovely. We had a ping pong table, and we love ping pong,

so we just did that the whole time. It was just incredible. Oh, and it was on a farm. I forgot about this. You could walk down a hill. Sorry, we're on a tangent. And you could do avocado trees and berries. And it was just

oh I love that it was fantastic I love that I'll send it to you if you want yeah but again it was like I have never heard of this place we were so glad we went like we just had the best time I had a buddy yeah I have a buddy he's a photographer in New Zealand and I had never been and of course I was like I guess I'll just go to Auckland like that's it because I had a quick layover actually after that French Polynesia trip and I didn't have a ton of time or else I would have done a whole big trip and also, you know, broke. And I was like, I guess I'll just whatever. And he's like, No, we'll take you out of the city, you have to see somewhere outside of the city, New Zealand, like you're not getting real New Zealand. I was like, Okay, right. And we saw

a waterfall. He took me to Raglan. i was just like yeah i love it i you know i live in seattle and if you come to seattle like and you've never well first of all the perfect example if you come to the u.s and you know very little about the united states you're probably going to los angeles or you're going to new york yeah like that's it or vegas or vegas that's true true yeah so when i think about you know people who are coming to visit the u.s u.s is huge right there's like six countries here and just this one well more than that but like i think about that if i just fly to ireland for example right and i just go to dublin that is not a true irish experience now it's better than not going at all but like i said i brought in galway and that is the cultural capital of ireland and i love it more than anything and I you're a girl I am I don't

like Dublin actually I love Galway though I love every other part of Ireland and so if you're just focusing on these huge cities yes perfect amazing experience and also think about if somebody just came to the U.S. and just visited New York like yes I love New York but what is the experience you're missing exactly I always tell people when they ask me what should I visited New York. Like, yes, I love New York. But what is the experience you're missing? Exactly. I always tell people when they ask, what should I do New York? I'm like, yeah, it's great. But you should like try to get out of it too. If you have time. The eastern end of Long Island, like where I'm from is incredible. It's three hours long, mind you, but it is gorgeous, tranquil, like it's incredible. But that's like anywhere, you know, you really sometimes need just to go beyond the surface of what you've read about to really just experience, you know, more than a place has to offer. One of the things you mentioned wanting to talk about

is this adjustment that needs to happen as you get older, and you're traveling. Tell me more about that. Yeah, so young Katie just wanted to see everything and check off a bunch of countries on the list because it was like where you want to see and experience and do and you just you have this insatiable appetite of exploration. And so you're constantly trying to go to a new place that's always on your mind. Where can I go next? Where can I go next? Then get a little older, get a little wiser, and you start to appreciate those places that you want once. you start to appreciate those places that you want once and you kind of root yourself and dig in a bit more to those places and you go back and you have different experiences there and you you really take that time to dig in and so then that's that roots concept i think the pandemic has also kind of changed travel tastes personally for me you know i was very much in that that wings

phase where i still want to see new places but But I've appreciated some of these places that I've been back to recently, London, I kind of relived my study abroad and walked by places that I hadn't been in almost, gosh, over a decade. And I was just, you know, walking down memory lane. And I was but I had a totally different experience overall. But I appreciated the city so much more being older and, you know, getting to go to those nicer restaurants that I couldn't afford when I was younger and seeing all the things and maybe staying in a nicer place or just having a totally different experience or, you know, getting outside of the city, you know, and seeing a bit of the country. Whereas when I was younger, I didn't do any of those. I just wanted to see Big Ben, go on the London Eye and all that jazz and, you know, go to the pubs. And, you know, as you get older and you're a little bit more financially stable or comfortable, you know, you can, yeah, maybe go out to dinner at a nicer place maybe once or twice more. I always like to go out to lunch because I find that that's the best way to get a great high-end meal for a better price. So I'll do that sometimes, especially while you're

traveling. But yeah, like, you know, being able to kind of have more of your budget go to things that you weren't able to do the last time you were there is really great as well. And it doesn't mean that you're not like a true traveler if you keep going back to one place. Like, no, not at all. You're just experiencing it in a new way or you're actually just reliving all the things you love about it. And that's totally OK, too. Whenever I click on a going link or I read one of your blog posts or the emails, one of the things that I think is really cool that I imagine has been very intentional is a lot of conversations about how to travel in this place in a way that feels intentional and ethical and also inclusive. I know that for a lot of the going updates, it's how LGBTQ friendly is this place. If you're a woman, like I'm traveling to Morocco, right? There are certain things that

I have to keep in mind. I have to keep my head covered while I travel. And I also know just for me as a white person traveling to a lot of places, like I've traveled to Hawaii plenty of times where, you know, I'm on native land and I'm trying to be more ethical and intentional about traveling in these places. Are there any tips or advice you have for, you know, being intentional when we travel and also traveling as ethically as we can? Yeah, I think over tourism is kind of been in the lexicon more so in the past 10 years than even before that, because flights are so much more affordable. So there are so many more people traveling than there were a decade ago, two decades ago,

and so on and so forth. You know, it's not just for the wealthy case in point budget airlines, you know, you can jump on a spirit flight for 45 bucks. So there are a small number of places that see over tourism, you know, like a Barcelona, like a Venice. And, you know, I'm sure you read about all the horrible things that happened over the summer with some tourists from all over the world, you know, defacing statues, sleeping in places they shouldn't be, getting publicly drunk in areas that they shouldn't be and so on and so forth. You know, Rome, Greece, like all these popular places. But apart from those places, there are so many other places that suffer from under tourism that would be thrilled to have you come visit and would welcome people from other places to experience their homes, their cultures, their food. Like I think food is the great equalizer. I always tell this. If you have nothing in common with someone, share a meal with them. You will find that you

both like chicken curry or whatever, you know, like whatever it is, you will find a commonality there. And so I think that there are so many places that can benefit from having people go to them. And of course, wherever you go, you should be mindful and aware of where you're going and what you're doing and respectful. Treat that place like you would your own home. You know, I would hope that you're not walking around throwing trash on your lawn. That goes without saying. So I think, you know, in terms of over tourism and just being ethical about that, think outside the box when traveling and consider places that maybe you wouldn't have considered, but would welcome you with open arms. You don't have to always go to Italy, you could go to Albania, go to Montenegro,

Slovenia, Georgia, tons of places in Africa, there are so many places around the world that are so untapped, but would love to have people visit. And so I do think that there is a world where people can travel, and they can do it ethically and not abuse it, but kind of get all the benefits. You know, it's a benefit on both sides. It's not just a one way, a one way street. I love that. One of the things I've tried to do too, is just starting to understand more of the land and the native culture of wherever I'm at, as opposed to again, like exactly where you are in, you know, like Hawaii, again, very easy to never leave your resort. And one of the things I tried to do very intentionally,

the last time I was there was visit Native heritage sites, start to understand, you know, the impact both positive and negative that tourism has had on their land and on their people. And so I think that there's ways to even in the information you consume, or the activities that you do, you know, or where your money goes, right? Like, I want to give my money to someone who, you know, is a family-owned business who needs that money when I go on a kayak tour, then just giving it to this huge, like, you know, global or nationwide conglomerate, right? Like, even that, I think, can be a really powerful thing as I'm going to, you know, use my money and vote with my dollars in these places that could really use my money. Right. Totally. That's, I think, a huge thing, too. And being very aware of, yeah, where's your money going? You know, and how are you spending

it when you're on vacation? I'll go back to that tour that I did in Croatia. The company, one thing I really loved about it was the fact that there was a day or part of the day was dedicated to working with a nonprofit in the area. And we did work with an organization that helps keep the coastlines of Croatia clean and helps to keep the waters clean. Water in Croatia is gorgeous. But you know, like anywhere, there is trash on the beach. And we did a big beach cleanup and just kind of seeing it firsthand that it's not just something that happens at home. It happens in other places. And obviously, this is a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things, my one little beach cleanup.

But it was something that, again, I hadn't considered, didn't think about, and was so happy I did. And then got to learn about this organization, learn about how much trash is dumped and how they're experiencing that issue in Croatia, not just in the US. It's global. It's a global issue. Just seeking out those opportunities wherever you know, not just in the US, it's global, it's global issue. Just, you know, seeking out those opportunities wherever you go, because they are there, they would also love for other people to know about them and what they're doing and

having other people help out. Before we go into my rapid fire round of questions this is my own personal question that i wrote and i will literally read you what i wrote i cannot sleep on a plane i have tried everything please help lols literally everything i have tried the melatonin i have tried the six different kinds of pillows i have tried the don't sleep the night before and that's the only one that works is like don't sleep at all and then so you can sleep on the plane i've tried everything possible i made like i flew from australia i maybe got three hours of sleep help me sleep solve my problems please oh girl honestly yeah i know this is a toughie because i am the same same i'll sleep with one eye open on a plane

just because i i just can't i just can't not comfortable can't get comfortable i'm not comfortable i can't get comfortable i flew lay flat in europe coming back from europe that's the first time i had ever done that and that was the best sleep i had gotten and still on a 10 hour flight i got maybe two hours of sleep yeah all those people in business that are like oh i got such a great sleep and then i had my little you know croissant breakfast, whatever. That did not happen to me. I thought it would happen.

And then I felt like shit the rest of the day, the first day. I mean, don't get me wrong. If somebody offered me a business class ticket, I will take it. Oh, no, it was way better than economy. Way better. But oh, did I sleep like I did at home? Did I sleep even half as well as I do at home? You're not in your same environment.

You're not, you know, the smells, the noise. I don't care what anybody says. Noise cancelling headphones. I'm trying to sleep at 3 p.m. Seattle time so that I'm on the right time when I get there. Yeah, not good. Well, so that was going to be my tip because I used to go back and forth to Australia quite a bit and trying to figure out how to sleep on that flight is a toughie. I think, you know, there's no magic pill. I wish I could say that there is a prescription that you can get for sleeping on a plane, but there's not. I do think that body positioning can help. Sometimes I'll try to put myself on a diagonal and a window seat. That is like my go-to.

Also getting on the time zone of where you're going to, I do really, really, really think helps just even to acclimate yourself when you land. So you're not like, oh, I, uh, I really wish I had, I mean, I'm sure you've tried all the, all the different pillows. I don't think any of them work to be honest. I don't think so either. I don't have a favorite. So I couldn't, I couldn't say, yeah. Can I, could we put a pin on this? Can we do a follow up? Yeah, it would be great. The thing that I found where I do sleep the best is honestly the like get a minimum amount of sleep the night before. Not ideal because I've also had that.

I had that backfire in Paris as I slept very little and then I slept very little on the flight and then I felt like absolute death. But then I was out in London one time till three in the morning, had a six or 7am flight that worked great. So it's just hard. Have to say, yes, some of the best sleeps I have ever gotten on a flight have been because I was out the night before. Not gonna lie. Not gonna not gonna tell you what I was doing. But you know, sleep is good. Yep. 100%. 100%. I was making out with Irishishman that's what i was doing i did it at a pub in pub in london ironically no but that's the only thing i found and i don't like that as a

solution no it's not it is not a solution please don't don't take this advice yeah no it's a it's a tricky one because because of the design of a an airplane seat by the way those seats have not been redesigned in like a ton of years. That's the other thing. Why will they not make them more comfortable? It's not that hard. I sleep better in a car than I do on a plane. It's tough.

It's a toughie. You know, retrofitting all of the planes with new seats will take a lot of time. And, you know, the airline is not just going to stop operations to be able to do that. So like, it's a definite, it's a bigger question. It's a bigger question. There was that whole double-decker,

I don't know if you saw that, it was a double-decker seating arrangement. All the comments on social were hilarious. Like, I don't want somebody's ass in my face while I'm trying to sleep. And it's like, oh, fair. But at the same time, if you can have a bit more recline,

I do think that that helps just to ease the pressure off your lower back to be continued. I will say I'm going to say to be continued. We're going to help you out. We will help you out. This is not sponsored, but I will say that Qantas hammock in economy for your feet. Do you know the one I'm talking about? I do.

That is the easiest thing to put on your planes that immediately makes your life better. If you don't know what I'm talking about. Luckily, I read this is how nerdy I am is I read the seat components before I got on or I would have missed it. Yeah. Basically, it's attached to the underside of the seat in front of you. So you can pull it down and it'll like spring back. But you pull it down, put your feet in and then it acts like a bed because your feet are not like in the 90 degree angle of you sitting and they're elevated right which is good uh if you're not using compression socks i highly recommend everybody do that maybe i guess oh yes they sell

portable little footrests that you can hook on to the back of the seat i have seen those yeah i would try that maybe i don't personally have one, but I was tempted. Or if you ever fly or New Zealand, try to look into a sky couch, which is the best. It's an economy and it's in the row where all of the three seats, there is a footrest that flips up and it makes a bed. It's great for families. Yeah, I luckily didn't realize I booked a sky couch and nobody was sitting on either side of me and the

flight attendant came over and was like did you reserve this i go no uh why what's so special about this he's like this is sky couch i'll set it up it was a bed it was incredible it really it did help because i was able to lie flat in economy i just googled photos sky couch oh my god yeah sky i need a sky couch no no no but i need a sky couch now yeah sky couch again not sponsored i i am not i'm not recommending air new zealand but if you are if you're a family and you're looking to go to new zealand like look into it or not even if you're just you want to go to new zealand look into it it's it is the way to do it my god sky couch okay amazing all right let's do lightning rounds okay favorite vacation you've ever taken uh i will go to byron bay australia every day of

my life if i could lovely checked bag or carry on only oh i think there's a time and a place for a checked bag i'm in the carry-on phase of my life lovely i just did three weeks in europe and only a carry-on and i wanted a medal i'm like like, give me a goddamn medal. I was so proud of myself for that. I'm impressed. I am impressed by you. I am impressed. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you. In-flight Wi-Fi or in-flight nap time? Again, time and a place. I really love the fact that you can work on a plane. I think it is fantastic. During the day when you can't sleep, what are you going to do? Watch like 1300 million reruns of Friends and The Last of Us? No, get the Wi-Fi. Yeah, I wasn't a worker on planes until about two years ago. And now I'm sold. I'm converted. It's great. Most of my work gets done on planes. Yeah, the phase where yeah,

nobody's bothering me. I can dial in. It's good. Yep. It's lovely. All right. Favorite airport. Oh, that's hard. I was just I you know, I do love Heathrow because I really like the pret in the Heathrow in Terminal Five. Just gonna say that. And the covers on the toilet seats. That was very fascinating to me when I was a kid. And my mom was so excited about that. You know, the ones the automatic covers? Yeah, they're great. Yeah. Oh, oh it's fun it's it's a blast and a half quick layover or overnight six eight ten hour layover overnight i love adding a new city yeah yeah if i can i will look for a long layover case in point i was coming back from europe a couple years ago and booked a flight through copagen. Copenhagen is one of those places I

would go a million and a half times again, because it's incredible. Got out of the airport, booked a bike, biked around, hit my favorite bakeries, had a beautiful glass of schnapps, like went to the water. Oh, yeah, I had a whole little whole little afternoon for myself and then got back on the flight and went home. I love that. Month long, week long, or weekend getaway? I say no travel is bad. But I do feel like you can dig into a place a bit more if you can spend more time and work from there. I you know, I will harp on it if you can work remotely and spend another week working. So you know, you take your vacation and then you can tack on a work a work week. I think you can just like get into your own little kind of fantasy life of what it would be like to live there and have a routine

and you make friends with the coffee shop guy. You really get to experience it more so. And you cook and you go to the grocery store and you really feel like you're a part of it. Whereas you go, you're a tourist, you're doing all of these fun things, but that's not real life. That's vacation life.

Yep. That was me in New York. I lived in Brooklyn for seven weeks last year. And I won't shut up about it. But, yeah, I went back and visited, like, my old haunts. And they all remembered me. And it was so nice. Like, the bagel place knew me.

Yeah. It's nice. It was lovely. Awesome. Best meal you've ever had on a flight. Oof. God. flight awesome best meal you've ever had on a flight oh god does the uh pretzel coming back from jet blue like on jet blue count because a hot pretzel on jet blue i will take it every day

the week they have a hot pretzel yeah when you fly transatlantic back uh from europe on their transatlantic flights they'll give you a pretzel if you land in new york i am booking that immediately that's amazing wow okay i just want to take that flight for the pretzel. I'm telling you right now. I know. It was the treat of the week. I am an Alaska Airlines girly. Love Alaska. If they called me and they're like, I need a kidney. I'm like, which one? But on every flight that's over, I think either five or six hours. So I do a lot of the Seattle to Boston or Seattle to New York or Seattle to DC. They have salt and straw ice cream coming home. Okay.

In first class. It's great. In first class. And I usually get up straight. It's delightful. Right. So good. Yeah.

It's so good. If anybody hasn't had salt and straw, get on it. It's so great. Whenever I'm in San Francisco, I always seek out a salt and straw. Cause they're good. They're good.

I went to school in portland and they're from portland oh no way yeah they're fantastic i didn't know that i love that yeah someplace you want to go again like in the next year oh uh in the next year i would love to go back to asia yeah i did i did two months in bali and that was a really magical trip it was very eat pray love of me yeah yeah oh yeah uh yeah yeah I went for uh I went for a an influencer boot camp yeah lovely it's a story for another day story for another day no but I I just feel like there are so many places not just in in Bali but like in Indonesia in I have a good friend in singapore like that whole area i would love to just really just tackle what is the city or the country that's like about to pop off oh that's a great question like we had the bali and then we had the iceland uh i don't know what era

we're in right now santorini was big for a while. Yeah, I think people are looking like looking forward if I had a crystal ball into next summer, I think people are going to look at maybe not only second cities in in popular European places, but also maybe some underserved countries like in Albania, instead of going to Greece, crystal clear water, explore more areas of Turkey, to Greece, crystal clear water, explore more areas of Turkey. I do think that we will see more trans-Pacific travel, hopefully in the near future, because that area has been really depressed in terms of how many flights are going back and forth, as well as India is putting more effort in or not effort, but India has big orders for lots of planes. So I think in the next two, three years, we might see more and more tourism over that way. Interesting.

I really want to go to Latvia. And I feel like Latvia is on the cusp of becoming a big deal. I really want to go to Riga. Yeah, Riga. Yeah, it kind of got on the map for being a remote workplace. And I could see, yeah, yeah that yeah yeah it was kind of like a digital nomad like it wants people to come hub yeah yeah yeah like estonia and and that little area gosh there's so many places um i mean i think scandinavia is going to have its moment

maybe next summer just because people are kind of like done with the old, you know, the Southern Europe haunts. Scandinavia in the summer is incredible. Oh, my gosh. Like all the Swedish archipelagos, Finland, Norway in the summer is incredible. I would have eyes on that area. Cool. Where are you going next? Where am I going next?

That's a great question. Domestically, I am going to Newport rhode island uh next week which is a lovely little hamlet yeah and then i go to bermuda at the end of the month oh yeah yeah yeah it's uh that also is like a place that i think yeah i love it i always do that too when i'm around whenever i board the flight there i think people assume that it's just this really pricey place when in fact you can fly from multiple cities on the east coast for like 90 bucks each way 94 bucks each way 300 bucks and yeah like prime time new york to bermuda we were seeing like 294 uh like a month ago and that's from the east coast and um

you know once you get there yeah you don't have to stay in the four seasons. You don't have to stay in the St. Regis. There are super cute mom and pops. Bermudian people are the most welcoming and want you to have a Bermudaful day, a Bermudaful time. Like that is the thing. And yeah, the beaches are free and they're plentiful. Yeah, I would definitely recommend heading to Bermuda. Sounds amazing. Katie, thank you so much for being here. Where can we find out more about you and more about Going? Yeah, thank you for having me. We are at going.com.

We have different membership tiers. You don't have to pay to play. We send deals for free, which are amazing. And we do a tons of content to just kind of, you know, not only talk about places, talk about cities, talk about things to do, but also just give recommendations and tips and tricks and all that. So people can not only save money, but we want more people exploring the world and, you know, doing it as, uh, yeah, affordably as possible. Amazing. I love it. Thanks for being here. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much to Katie for joining us. You can learn more about going by clicking on the link in our bio. You can get literal flights delivered to you for joining us. You can learn more about going by clicking on the link in our bio.

You can get literal flights delivered to you. Flight deals. I mentioned in the episode that I have booked almost every single friend moon flight using going. We literally a couple of weeks ago when we were recording this episode, I booked a less than $500 round trip from Seattle to Dublin. And I found out about it through a going email. So you can go to the link in our show notes for more information about how to sign up for going. It is free. And also there's some paid subscriptions if that's something you want to do. Thank you so much for

being here, Financial Feminist. Thank you for supporting our work. If you liked the episode, feel free to share it with your friends and family. Until next time, have a great week. Until next time, have a great week. Thank you. Jonah Cohen sound a huge thanks to the entire, her first hundred K team and community for supporting the show. For more information about financial feminist, her first hundred K our guests and episodes show notes, visit financial feminist podcast.com.