Financial Feminist - 14. How to Travel (Ethically) on a Budget with Netflix's Jo Franco

Episode Date: April 26, 2022

If travel is on your bucket list, whether it’s weekend road trips or backpacking through the Alps, this episode is the one for you. Today, host Tori Dunlap is joined by creator, world traveler, polyglot, and host of the Netflix show, World’s Most Amazing Vacation Rentals, Jo Franco! Jo shares the story of how she went from an undocumented immigrant to a world traveler and the lessons she’s learned along the way. On this episode, she shares with us how to engage with different cultures without being a basic b*tch while traveling, budgeting tips, how to travel safely as a woman of color, and her philosophy on why well-traveled doesn’t always mean having the most pins on a map. Jo and Tori also get into journaling, their favorite eats abroad, and so much more. We hope you love this first guest episode of season two. New episodes of Financial Feminist come out every Tuesday, and mini-episodes drop every other Thursday –– subscribe so you don't miss out! Pre-Order “Financial Feminist: Overcome the Patriarchy’s Bullsh*t to Master Your Money and Build a Life You Love”: https://bit.ly/3PpHvlC Our HYSA recommendation [affiliate]: http://sofi.com/herfirst100k Get on the waitlist for the travel E-Book:  https://herfirst100k.com/travel-ebook-waitlist  May Mental Health Challenge: https://herfirst100k.com/mental-health-month-challenge Follow us on YouTube for behind the scenes and extras: https://www.youtube.com/c/HerFirst100K/featured Tori's travel credit card recommendation: https://herfirst100k.com/recommended-credit-cards Check out the show notes for this episode for more resources: https://herfirst100k.com/financial-feminist-show-notes/  Follow Jo on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jo_franco  Follow Financial Feminist on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/financialfeministpodcast/  Follow Her First $100K on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/herfirst100k/ Not sure where to start? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://treasury.app/herfirst100k/money-journey-quiz  Leave Financial Feminist a voicemail: https://www.speakpipe.com/financialfeminist  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back financial feminists. This is our kickoff guest episode of season two. And it is so good. It is so good. I am coming to you all stuffed up with the colds and all colds. So I'm giving you raspy, snotty today, which I'm so sorry about. But maybe it's sexy. I don't know. You can tell me. Tweet at me. Tweet at me if it's doing it for you. All right. As a reminder, we are bringing you weekly guest episodes every Tuesday for the foreseeable future. So make sure you're subscribed on your preferred podcasting platform so you never miss a minute. Before we dive in, we have a lot of exciting news over at Her First 100K. Some of it I can't tell you yet. I'm so sorry. It's coming, I promise. But I am excited to share about our May Mental Health Initiative. We've built out a three-week mental health challenge starting on May 2nd to coincide with Mental Health Awareness Month. Every day of this free challenge, you'll receive an email prompt to help promote better mental and financial health. I talk about it a ton, but your mindset is so incredibly important when it

comes to changing your finances. So we're hoping this challenge encourages you and starts you on your journey to better mental health. And if you're looking to better your financial health, take care of yourself financially, do a little bit of financial self-care. I recommend listening to episodes 2 and 11, 2 about overcoming your psychological bullshit around money. We guide you through an amazing journaling exercise, working through some of that financial trauma, some of those narratives you might be believing about money

and how to overcome them and how to set financial goals. And then episode, I believe 11, is all about practicing and implementing financial self-care, which is so important in our total self-care journey. So I encourage you to listen to both of those episodes, especially during this month. Head over to herfirsthundredk.com slash mental dash health dash challenge to sign up for this completely free challenge. Again, herfirsthundredk.com slash mental dash health dash challenge. We'll also have the link in our

show notes. Okay, let's talk about today's show. I am chatting with the incredible Jo Franco. When my team got word that we were bringing Jo Franco on the show, our head of marketing and our project manager have been obsessed with her for years. And so we were just so excited to chat with her. She's a world traveler, writer, creator, polyglot. This woman speaks like nine languages, eight languages, and is constantly learning more. She's also the host of the Netflix show, The World's Most Amazing Vacation Rentals, which if you want some like serious travel inspiration, if you want to be bitten by the travel bug, this is where you go. This is the show you watch. She's created content

for over a decade in several languages including english french spanish portuguese arabic greek and italian across more than 600 videos on two youtube channels damon and joe and joe franco and she's amassed over 1.3 million subscribers on both of those channels she's the host of not your average joe podcast which i have also been on we did a little dual record so if you want more of our conversations, especially more geared towards money, you can check out my episode on her show. She's also CEO of Joe Club, which is a global online journaling movement where she leads workshops and events around writing for self-discovery and for personal evolution. Okay,

so today we're going to talk about how to not be a basic bitch when you travel and ways that we can support global and tourist heavy communities instead of harming them when we visit. We're going to talk about budgeting tips, how to set a budget and keep to it when you travel, how travel is more of a state of mind rather than actual destinations. We talk about so much travel goodness in this episode. And if you're not already a fan of Joe, you will be after this show. Let's roll. Well, what time is it? Is it like it's eight hours? It's eight p.m. It's time for wine.

I'm having the two best things, wine and conversations about money with a very smart woman. So cheers to that. Cheers. I'm drinking part of a chocolate and hazelnut smoothie that has lipstick all over it. So that's what I'm drinking. I know. Pretty thrilling. Yes. Oh, no. that has lipstick all over it so that's what i'm drinking i know pretty thrilling yes oh no i came to la and i was like i am only drinking smoothies now i drink green juice and this is the when in

rome you know it's just a lot of green juice and salads uh yeah that's it i'm so excited to have you as i we literally are coming off this conversation of me coming on your show. And so we've already chatted for an hour and I'm excited to chat for more time. I'll give you a softball right off the bat. What is your absolute favorite trip you've taken? And how did you budget to do it? question so i feel like my scrappier days were the funnest days because there was so much room for error and spontaneity but one trip i highly recommend for everyone is getting a euro rail pass so it's the train system in europe so i i forgot how many countries i went to it was like 20 countries in like 20 days it was like a mad, but it was so much fun because the way that those passes work is you basically, you get on a train. If it's available, you don't plan out. You can be super meticulous and like plan every single train you're going to take, but odds are you're going to get to a place, fall in love with it, stay a little bit longer. So then it becomes this improv travel

experience and the characters that you meet on the trains and the countries that you end up going to because the local train is going to take you three hours longer so you're going to take the express train and end up in in krakow poland like that trip is a trip of a lifetime and it's pretty cheap honestly wow yeah so when you're traveling wow yeah so when you're traveling like i imagine part of it is like figuring out do i want to go to the major city in a country or the major cities or do i want to go to the middle of nowhere so for you like what either country or city surprised you the most and what was the kind of like logistic or the the thought process of yeah do i go to rome do I go to, I don't know, Crema, Italy, right? Or like somewhere you've never been before and that nobody's ever heard of. Such a great question.

Honestly, I got to tell you the truth. When you're traveling in your early 20s, it's a completely different thing from your early 30s. I'm 29 now, but I consider myself in like the early 30 categories with like, I now rent cars. This is something I would have never done in my early twenties. Like in my early twenties, I'm going to a city, I'm taking public transportation. I'm walking my ass everywhere. Now I take cars. And so now it's easier to get to the little tiny towns. And I prefer that because that's where the culture is. That's where the language is. That's where the history is, you know, those really off the beaten path moments. So to give you an answer, it would be what state of mind am I in? I think travel is more affordable in cities because obviously there are more people there. So you can find the $1 pizza or the five euro kebab deal like you can find that in cities. find that in cities. Whereas if you're off the road or like, you know, in a tiny village, you're going to have to either cook at home, which is cheap too, but that means getting to the grocery

store, the accessibility becomes different. So as far as like favorite and what surprised me, I think I'm actually surprised by the fact travel has changed in my life so drastically. When I started traveling, I was 18. So I, a little bit of backstory. I grew up undocumented, which means I couldn't leave the country for 12 years. So a lot of people think that I was raised traveling. No, I wasn't. I was born in Brazil. And then I grew up in the States after turning five, I moved to Connecticut. And then in Connecticut is where I stayed. And all I did in those 12 years was being in preparation. I was in preparation, Tori.

I'm like studying French and studying, you know, Italian. And I'm looking up and study abroad programs. I couldn't even leave the country because I was, we were on the wait list for our citizenship, for our green card so that we could leave. But I grew up internationally. I grew up speaking to relatives in Portuguese. I grew up having my accent be made fun of in both English and Portuguese. So to me, travel was inside and it wasn't something I necessarily needed to do. I wanted to do it. I couldn't do it though. Then I finally got my green card, went to college in New York,

and I started taking these smaller trips. It was a day trip. Let's go to the cloisters. Like, what is that? Nobody in our grade has gone. It's this, you know, thing in uptown Manhattan. Let's go explore it. Let's go sleep overnight and wait for SNL tickets. Not because we're traveling very far, but because that's an experience. So when I was younger, I realized travel wasn't this thing that you needed to do to get on a plane. It was a state of mind. And it was the spirit of wanting to change what is routine to give yourself something worth remembering. That hasn't changed. Can you just stop right there? One more time. Travel is not getting on a plane. It's a state of mind. No, you just dropped like, like the little blue beautiful cherry blossom

and you just like went right past through it no i just i love that you're so you're really that was my experience traveling very early on and i wanted to talk to you about this anyway but there was this feeling that travel didn't quote unquote count unless you got on a plane right or unless you like drove certain amount of hours right like that traveling the glamorous part of traveling was the getting on the plane the like and i love that for you it was like let's go to a different neighborhood let's go an hour away from the city i'm in let me me stand outside all night for Saturday night live tickets. A state of mind. It's beautiful. It's beautiful, Jo.

And it's true. And I think it came from the fact I didn't have money. I didn't have money to get on a plane. I couldn't even get on a plane at the time when I was undocumented, but I was always curious, right? The reason why I love language learning, it's because it allowed me to travel in my own mind. Like when you're learning a language, suddenly you're getting access to this. She's snapping her fingers. You know, it's giving you access to new music, to new movies, new culture, new people. You don't even need to speak to someone necessarily to feel like you're traveling when you're learning a new language because your mind is already traveling. It's already imagining itself on that little cafe

in the corner street in Athens. Like it's imagining itself elsewhere. And that to me is travel. When you actually get to go, that's when things get even better. But I guess my advice to anybody traveling, especially if they're budgeting, don't think necessarily that you need this glamorous, luxurious trip to go anywhere or to feel the spirit of travel, because you can make that happen on a Saturday afternoon simply by deciding, I'm going to get a coffee in a new coffee shop. I'm going to bring my journal. I'm going to bring my film camera and I'm going to have a moment and it's going to be a travel moment. You could live in the city and feel like you're traveling. I feel like we can end the podcast right there. I'm already like,

that was just amazing. No, it's so accurate. And I really caught the travel bug for me. It was studying abroad in Ireland. I got to live there for six months. And I really, I wanted your thoughts about this. that it wasn't so much about traveling. It was about checking countries off a list. Did you ever feel this way where it was like, you know, because a very early like Instagram, like, you know, like circa 2013, 2014 was like, how many countries have you been to? Right. And it's like, it was like the bragging about the level, like the amount of countries. And so when I was in Europe, there was almost this like feeling that, okay, I, if I go to London for three days, at least I can like check that off the list. Right. And then being in Ireland for six months and realizing that what I loved about Ireland was of course being there, but it wasn't like, I like Dublin, but it wasn't Dublin. You know, it was the tiny little, it was Galway

where I lived and it was going to Limerick and driving the Irish countryside. Again, all these little tiny towns that you'll never experience. And so for me now, I very much more prioritize slow travel than trying to check a bunch of countries or a bunch of cities off the list. I've been to Italy now twice for a good chunk of time in the past two years. I've gone back to Italy because I love it so much. And when you think about the United States, it feels like every pocket of the US... I live... I'm based in Seattle. Seattle is so much different than two hours south in Portland or three hours south in

Portland. It's so much different than eastern Washington. And so I think there is this feeling that, okay, I've been to Croatia, so I can check it off the list, right? But you've only seen Dubrovnik. Or, oh, I've gone to Australia, I've gone to Sydney, so I can check it off the list. Was that a feeling for you too? Like, was there the temptation of like, checking things off in order to feel like a traveler? Brilliant, brilliant question. I think that with Instagram came the pressure of that. Like, how many countries have you been to? It's like even the questions of like, what's your favorite place?

It's like, this is not how we should look at travel. These traveling experiences are enriching. It doesn't matter how many countries you've been to. I'm actually the opposite of a checklist traveler. I call that a checklist traveler. I will willingly stay for a month in a place as opposed to going to five countries nearby because I feel a responsibility to communicate and to give the people of that place accurate representation as opposed to being like, hey guys, I'm in Thailand for two days. Here's my pad CU. That's bullshit to me. So I would rather embed myself. I've gone to Italy

like seven, eight times. I'll go back to Croatia for the third time. I go back to Greece every chance I get. I would rather go back to places to understand it. Also linguistically, it's, it's, I couple my travels with language because with language, you, you actually experience a whole new place. Like you could go back to Italy five times, but if on that fifth time you speak Italian, that's going to be a new country for you. So for me, when I look at travel, I go back to the same places. Like I'm in, I'm living in London right now. I've lived in London before I could easily have gone to, I don't know, like freaking Serbia. It's like, no, I'm going to live here because I've been here. I will make it there eventually. But I think that when we look at travel, we really got to zone in on what we want because travel has become this very flashy thing.

And there's this peer pressure of checklists and locations but it's like ask yourself what do you actually enjoy because at the end of the day this is your money this is your time and if you're going for the sake of having something to brag about that's quite frankly bogus in my opinion because those people that you're bragging to aren't the ones living your life and they're not the ones night after night in the hostel or the Airbnb or fighting the person on the train. Like they're not you. So who cares? Who cares what they think? I actually feel strongly the opposite. When somebody asks me how many countries I've been to, I'm like, that is not the question you should be asking me. That's not the question because that says nothing because I could have easily said,

I've gone to 90 countries and I've not learned one language and I've not learned one thing about the culture and I've not made one connection. So it's bogus. But if you want to ask me how many languages do I speak? How many friends do I have in those places? Then let's have a conversation. That is so well said. Yeah. For me, I just, I keep going back to Italy and Ireland. Like those are my two, I just keep going back. And even my, my, like, I even do the thing in my brain where I'm like, we're going back to Italy again. Like go see somewhere else. Like you've already checked Italy off the list. And I'm like, yeah, I've done Southern Italy, but I haven't done Northern Italy. And for me, food is like the big thing when I travel. Like I, I am like, I, this is why I love traveling with my best friend, Christine, because for us, it's like the priority is when I travel. Like I am like, this is why I love traveling with my best friend,

Christine, because for us, it's like the priority is what like what is the best food here? What is the most authentic food here? And where can we find it? And then we've eaten. When can we eat next? And so like, you know, the difference between cuisine in southern Italy and northern Italy is so different even in how they make their pasta, right? Southern Italy, no egg. You're blasphemous if you use egg in your pasta versus North, there's the expectation of egg, right? It's just something as simple as that. I could talk to you about this for hours. Okay. So something you've mentioned repeatedly and that I'd love to talk to you about, you're a polyglot. I have an issue with languages. I speak enough French to get by. That's like the only language that I can speak other than English. And I wish I, in my fantasy, I speak fluent French

and I'm very sophisticated. And I just admire you so much. The fact that like this, this is, you know, an attribute or something you've worked hard for. What is the difference as someone who speaks multiple languages between traveling to a country where you know the language and one where you don't? Great question. Two completely different experiences. But I do have to say you don't need to be fluent

to get the respect of the locals. I think, for instance, I was in Croatia and I don't speak Croatian. But before I even landed, I started looking on Spotify for Croatian artists and I started adding songs to a Croatian playlist. This is something I do. It's like a great travel tip. You kind of mark the memory, look up like the top artists of that place. And I do this everywhere I go. And it's really fun. And not only is it fun, but it's also a window into the language.

So for instance, I got to Croatia, I didn't speak any Croatian, I was gonna spend what turned, it was a week turned to a month. So I didn't know I was going to spend a month there. So I was like, okay, I'm going for a week. I don't need to like learn this language, but let me look up my basics. Let me look up like hvala, which is thank you. Or like, let me look up, how are you? Let me look up all of these things. And I started asking, like right when I landed, I started asking the Uber driver, how do you say this? How do you say that? How do you say this? And that is an opener, right? So like not only is that creating an experience of its own, but you're getting the tools that then

you could use in your next interaction. So I don't think anybody needs to be necessarily fluent in a language, but if you're curious about the language and if you're speaking to the locals with that curiosity, that's already going to make your trip different. People will look at you differently if you're asking them unexpectedly, like, hey, how do you say thank you in your language? And they're just giving you your food. It's like suddenly they're like, oh, this isn't just another dumb tourist. This person is curious and they will treat you better. So then let's look at the other side of the spectrum. If you pull up and you're fluent in the language or you're intermediate enough to speak simply because I became friends or connected with somebody

in a language that they did not, like they didn't speak English, right? So we're talking about somebody I would not have met. I wouldn't have met this person if I didn't speak Italian or if I didn't speak French or if I didn't speak Portuguese or if I didn't speak, and the list goes on. That to me is mind blowing because the world is filled with people just like us that are speaking languages we don't understand until we try to understand them. It's crazy. Like right now on the other side of the world, there's probably a podcast recording happening just like ours, but in Korean. We'll never know unless we go Korean. And it's like when you look at language learning as a way to kind of unlock life, it becomes way more interesting than

dusty high school Spanish. I love that so much. And I experienced that firsthand. So I speak enough French to get by. And my friend Christine speaks better French than I do. And literally, we had anticipated trying to go to France for like a month, which is what we ended up doing. We went to France for all of September, except for a couple of days in Ireland because I couldn't help myself. And then we went to Italy for October. I love it so much. I literally like get teary eyed when I talk about it because like I transformed there. Go move, move. Let's be Europeans. Come on. Done. Girl, I've thought about it. I'm like, I'm halfway there already. Like the plan is after LA, New York, and then probably Ireland. Cause yeah, I can't stay away. We anticipated hopefully, you know, spending some time in France. And so we hadn't, you know, taken French classes for her since college for me since high school. And so we took like a community college class and like, I didn't learn much more, but it was like a good refresh. good refresh. And then we stayed in an Airbnb in this tiny little town outside of Dijon that no one's ever heard of called Arnaud Le Duc. And it had like less than I think like 1000 people.

And we called them French mom and dad. But we stayed at an Airbnb with French mom and dad, and they would bring us cake and they were so sweet, but spoke not a word of English. And so we had to navigate that. And it was also the feeling of accomplishment. It was in no way perfect. I was saying very elementary vocab, trying to communicate. But it was the accomplishment of I stayed in rural France for three weeks and communicated with somebody in their language, even if I had to Google some stuff in the moment, even if like I said something embarrassing. And that was just the coolest thing. And to your point, never would have met them, never would have had a conversation about them or with them, you know, and that was just so cool.

And no one's heard of this city. No one's heard of this tiny little town, but we're driving around literally like looking at castles and like going to the middle of nowhere in the french countryside that you know no one's put on a on a must you know see the 25 places to see before you turn 25 like no one put that on a list but it was so so cool i love that and it's it's that it's exactly that these things that you get access to aren't on lists I think we have kind of burst the knowledge bubble in a way. So I think like five years ago, seven, 10 years ago, let's even say 12 years ago, people started posting a shit ton of travel content. Like so much content on the internet was being posted. I was a part of that as well. Like when I started my YouTube channel back in 2012, that was the brand. It

was travel. It was travel. But for us, it was travel with this very cheap approach. It wasn't checklist travel. It wasn't let's try to hit every country. But we ended up seeing a lot. We ended up traveling to a lot of places. And it was all cheap and affordable because we were broke. And we were broke until we weren't. But in this process, But in this process, I see that we've contributed to the like over-touristification, the over-tourism of these places. And people are tired of seeing pictures on the Bali swing. People are tired of going somewhere that they've seen on Instagram and seeing nothing but people selling fidget spinners and laser beams. The white walls of Santorini.

Yeah. And it's like I went to Santorini and I felt like I was going to roast and die because there's not any sun coverage. It was in the middle of summer and those white walls just reflect the sun and it becomes like a big tanning booth. And I didn't like that experience. But when I was living in Athens for a month and going to Greek classes, like that's what I loved. So I think we're just at an age where we're, we're tired of doing the cookie cutter things. And so we got to get creative with how we access culture and people and travel. And I think language is a huge gateway to that. A million percent. Literally, my next question, it was a perfect transition into it how do you take care when

you're traveling to avoid harming these local economies that exist and especially i'm conscious as a white woman when i'm entering a certain a certain place like how do i not be another basic white bitch who's traveling i thank you for that question i'm just a basic brown bitch who's traveling? I thank you for that question. I'm just a basic brown bitch. So we're not that far off. It's true. It's true. No, it's something that I think about a lot. I and this is why I really do get up and I study my languages and I encourage people to do it because I feel like that's a way to kind of honor and respect cultures that are not ours and that are not convenient to us. I think as Anglophones, people who speak English, we're just by default privileged as hell because around the world, people have to learn English or French or

Spanish, but mostly English. And what a missed opportunity it is for us as Anglophones to not have to learn something else. Like right off the bat, when you think about psychology, it's like you're essentially saying everyone else has to work twice as hard, but you guys that speak English, you're fine. It creates this like privileged energy when it comes to travel. Our passports are huge when it comes to privilege. Having an American passport is the golden ticket. So if anybody listening is an American citizen and doesn't have their passport, please do me this one favor, get your passport. Because for 12 years, we couldn't get

one. And I always thought about my friends who were American who didn't have a passport. And I'm like, are you kidding me? You have the golden ticket. We have so much access to countries simply by being from this country that gives you a passport that you can enter in so many places without a visa. Other people don't have that, right? And when I travel and when I befriend people from abroad, the inequality with this stuff is crazy. It's like my Egyptian friend tried to get his visa to go anywhere other than Turkey and kept getting denied simply because he was from Egypt and had an Egyptian passport. This guy is a great person, has never committed a crime. They simply won't give you the visa. My dad from Brazil couldn't come visit us for 12 years because his visa from Brazil

to the States kept getting denied. So it's like, this is a reality that's very near and dear to my heart, but maybe not to other people because they don't understand. This is not their story. They don't have friends that have these stories. And this is why I want to share these stories. So the first thing to not being basic, it's like being aware of the privilege of where you come from, of the language that you were born speaking, and then doing your absolute

best to be curious about someone else's perspective, someone else's language, someone else's realities, because that shit is not fair. This life is not equal. That's the one thing I've learned from these travels. It's like, damn. And I know we talked about this on my podcast of how you do this every day for a living. It's like you're pulling back the financial layers and every day you're in shock because you're like, damn, that's so unfair. Okay, let's keep diving. Damn. And that is my experience in the global travel spectrum, you know, where I'm like, holy shit, that passport is basically like you're not going to go anywhere. And it's by no fault of your own. It's just simply how

the world works. So as an American traveler, as an, you know, English speaker or someone with an EU passport, even showing up with curiosity is like the baseline. Beyond that, there are other things that you could do to find accommodations that are eco-friendly. I think, you know, you got to pick your, your areas. For me, I love, I geek out on like solar panels and some kind of airbnbs i filmed a netflix show and every time we stayed at like an eco-friendly home i was the one being like guys it's so cool like this whole thing is powered by solar like oh my god and i think we could do some work there to look up how much waste we are contributing. Because when we travel to like, there's such a damaging footprint. If you're going to the beach, and you're like leaving garbage, right? Or like

staying at a place that's just and we can't be perfect, we cannot be perfect. But this is why I think staying local, learning local language, shopping at local vendors, like all of these things are small steps in the right direction. And shoot, like maybe my next venture is going to be all about that. It's like tourism that doesn't shit all over the beautiful places that we love, because I've lived, for instance, I've lived in Playa del Carmen, which is in the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico. And back in the day, it wasn't a big tourist hub. It was either Cancun or Tulum. Back in the day, it wasn't a big tourist hub. It was either Cancun or Tulum.

But I stayed, you know, 45 minutes away thinking, and it was super local when I lived there. I lived there in 2014, 2013. It was 2012, actually. So it was a long time ago. It was 10 years ago. And it was a pristine beach town, only locals. There were a few shops, nothing crazy. I go back,

Tori, like maybe five years later and the beach is just shit. There's just shit everywhere. Not only are there massive hotels, but the dirt and grime and like I saw the ocean receding and I was just in shock because it was the first time that I really saw what tourism does to a beautiful place. Yeah, I think about Hawaii a lot because it's a very popular destination. I've been multiple times. I absolutely love Hawaii. But you look at what tourism has done to those islands and to the people of Hawaii. It's just absolutely insane to the point now where they're so reliant on tourism. It's like this this this necessary evil where their entire economy now is built around it. But it's also taking land and taking their coral reefs and killing their turtles

and causing housing prices and the cost of living to go up to the point where now Native Hawaiians are having to leave, right? And so, yeah, I even grapple, you know, I love visiting Hawaii and I grapple with that again as a white woman of like, I'm coming into this place to be this tourist. And it's like, how do you honor a place, honor the people who live here, honor their traditions, honor their space and be the least basic possible, right? Do the least harm possible. It's so hard. Hawaii was like heartbreaking. When I first went to Hawaii, I was expecting this island filled with like native locals. And then you just dive into the history of Hawaii in general. And it's just like their language was banned. This is happening all over the world. Like right now,

I love Greece so much. The Mediterranean has my heart a thousand percent. But Greece is a place that I keep going back to. Italy as well. So when you want to do a little Italy trip, let's go. We'll stay sustainable. We'll eat all the food. Girl, I'm trying to do Sicily because I've done northern, I've done southern, and now I want to do Sicily. So that's next on the docket.

Let's go. Let's do it. I've never been. So we will, I'll go back to Italy or yeah, I guess to even Italy and Greece. But right now something I want to do is like buy property in Greece. And then I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, damn, I would be contributing to the problem because the locals cannot afford to buy things. The locals can't even afford to rent things the average salary in greece is like 600 to 700 euros and now airbnbs are double that right and it's like the rent prices

even if you're not talking about airbnb the rent prices have gone up but here's the irony too like these countries are creating incentives for digital nomads because they need the tourism dollars so we're at this like very interesting right what is it portugal i think put somebody up for like a year you had the option of like moving to portugal for a year i saw that at the beginning of the pandemic like crazy tax deductions like in croatia they have a digital nomad visa where you could stay for a year and you get like these crazy tax benefits but then the government is creating these visas because the government needs money that's more sustainable in tourism. And they know that the external dollars will bring it in.

But what it's doing is it's like stifling the locals. So to give you an answer, I don't have an answer. But I think being aware of it is step number one. It's being curious enough to ask the questions and to have friends and to be like, hey, if you were me, what would you do? My Greek friends don't have an answer. The Greek friends that I have left Greece to work in London, for instance, to make their money. And like this happens all over the world. My Italian friends, same thing. The world is not fair. I think that's the baseline. And it's not like a happy ending. But being aware of it and doing your best to be informed and be knowledgeable and be kind is the basic. So you can be basic and not be a basic.

So transitioning, a lot of our audience, 95% are female identifying, women identifying. And there, I think, is still this huge stigma or like nervous energy around traveling alone as a woman and I've done it and I I fucking love it it's my jam no it is my jam as well or again traveling with Christine I don't think we've discussed this we discussed this on the podcast but we go on what we call a friend moon every year we go on a honeymoon style trip as best friends and we do this every year and done this for like four years. And so we like just hold hands and tell each other how much we love each other as platonic best girlfriends. And it's the thing I look forward to the most every year.

And so even like she and I traveling together, a lot of the questions we get is it's like, oh, that seems risky. Or like, oh, like what is how do you how do you make sure you're safe? And I know as a woman of color, Christine is an Asian woman. As a woman of color, I know there's even more of a risk of that. So what are some of the things you had to consider when you travel, especially traveling alone, to make sure that you're safe and make sure that you're covered? Great question. And I would be lying to you if I told you racism is a myth. It's very much real, and I've seen it several times on my trips. I have. But like everything, I smile and I continue with grace. And, you know, every time

that I show up to a place, especially when I'm alone, it's such an opportunity. I think it makes you really strong and it makes you very sharp. And you know this because you've done it. You need to know your exits. You need to know your allies. You need to know your weapons. If it gets to that point, you just start thinking on another layer of awareness of like heightened awareness. Like you, but you become your own bodyguard. You have to have you. So I think as an exercise for anybody, it's really important to go places alone. What I recommend for somebody who wants to travel alone, but they've never done it. It's take yourself out to dinner in your town alone and test, test the waters and see how you feel. And then if that feels good,

like take yourself out on a solo date, go to the movies alone, do a whole day, like eight hours of like bookstore, coffee shop, movie night. Like what does that look like? of like bookstore, coffee shop, movie night. Like what does that look like? That's my favorite shit. Going to an art museum alone. I, I am my favorite person to hang out with. Like I get to leave when I want to leave. I get to stare at this Jackson Pollock painting for 30 minutes. If I want to do that, like I get, I love it. I love doing shit alone. Like I get, I love it. I love doing shit alone. Exactly.

And that's the thing too. You get to actually hear what you want because if you are constantly surrounded by people, your desires are likely swayed by what they want. If you're a team player, you're probably gonna be like, yeah, I wanna stare at this painting for 30 minutes, but everybody wants to go to dinner. So I guess I'll do it for 10 minutes.

And like, that was not a fulfilled moment for you, but you're doing that for the sake of the team. When you're alone, you don't need to sacrifice any desires for better or worse. So I think for me, solo travel, it's like a rite of passage. It's also a necessary exercise. And if people are scared, take themselves out for these like mini day trips or take a road trip by yourself see how that feels there's nothing more empowering than going somewhere alone and not only surviving but thriving like when I I thrive when I'm alone and actually I get cranky I get super cranky when I haven't spent time alone which is confusing because

people think I'm an extrovert but I think I'm actually an introvert who likes being around people. That's literally me, Joe. That's literally me. I get so much energy from people, but I also need to have at least one night a week, preferably a couple, where I'm just sitting by myself at home doing nothing. Yeah. Give your inner voice some time to shine and to talk to you and to hear what's up. I love journaling and I actually have the journal club, Joe club, which is a whole company dedicated towards maintaining the habit of journaling. But we do this with a global community where we meet twice a month. And these people came into the club alone and now they're friends. But one thing that I've learned across the board, it's like journaling to me has always been a part of my life for 15 years, 16 years,

all of my travels are journaled. And then when I kind of examined that, I'm like, damn, when I was alone, I wasn't actually alone because I had my journal as a companion, which is like a mind banger, which is something I say to be like, it's a shocker because it's like my voice got a chance to do its thing in the pages of my journal. And when I'm alone in a bar or in a restaurant and I'm journaling, what that does is it invites people to come and speak to me. And they're like, what are you writing about? And then they actually give me a story worth writing about. So it's this weird symbiotic cyclical thing. Huge tip. If you're traveling alone, bring a journal, bring your magazine, bring your book, bring a book. I do that a lot.

I bring a book. I literally sat on a beach in Hawaii with a, like with a mixed drink, a volcano or some bullshit, which was so great on the beach, brought my book because I knew I was going to be there two hours. And I'm like, I don't want to be on my phone, so I'll bring a book. And that's the thing, too. I think a lot of people will resort to being on their phone. And that's a huge critical point. Like, when you're alone, really be alone. Be unplugged.

I mean, have your phone there for safety. That's obviously your number one defense when something goes wrong. But enjoy yourself. Like, get that book. Spend those two hours not texting anyone. And I think in addition to like the potential safety risk, which I think, yes, to your point, like be conscious also, you know,

like do trial runs. For me, I think one of the other things is like not mentioning I'm alone, right? Like if somebody asks like, oh, are you here by yourself? Especially if a man asked me that, I'll say, oh no, you know, a partner's waiting for me and my friend's waiting for me back at the hotel or something like that, right? There's also this fear when you're alone that people are watching you and judging you and being like, oh my God, she's out to dinner alone.

How embarrassing. Can you speak on that for me me because i don't feel that way at all and i don't think anybody actually is staring at you going who is this girl who's so lame by herself i do think that that's a barrier for some people and i i've definitely felt those stares but i think you have a choice in that moment you could either let that drown you or you could let that empower you and whenever i get those stares i like for those split seconds where I'm like, dang, are those people like really giving me the side eye right now? I choose to remind myself how badass it is that here I am. You are the main character, baby.

I'm the main character. I'm not sitting with anybody because I don't want to be. And that is a choice and that is a freedom. And I'm exercising the shit out of it. and that is a choice, and that is a freedom, and I'm exercising the shit out of it. And that, my friend, is beautiful. So yeah, I think people could get in their heads about that, but that's a moment of growth. That's a moment of empowerment, right? And again, like journal, get that journal out. Because if you're ever feeling awkward, like I've had some journal entries where I'm like, the table behind me is staring meanwhile i'm sitting here thinking like how dope it is that i'm here and it's like

a conversation is happening with myself as i'm alone yeah i wasn't planning on asking you about this but you brought up journaling um my relationship with journaling has changed so much in the past couple years i was like a very sporadic journaler. And now I am like, I try to commit to at least a brief journal entry every day. And it's been absolutely transformational for me. I think for me, what prevented me from journaling for a really long time was I almost felt like I had to have something to say, or I had to like almost perform journaling the act of journaling in order for me to look back in a year or six months and be like oh that was so poetic like it almost felt like it had to be perfect right so I would buy these journals I would like spend hours like

finding the perfect journal but then I would never never touch it or only write one or two entries because I was even conscious while I was journaling that future me would see this. And for me, what I think transformed that was realizing journaling's not for future me to look back on. It ends up being something that's beautiful and a time capsule of what I was doing. But journaling is for me in the present to work through some shit or to talk about how I'm feeling. And I don't know if you've had a similar experience as well, but it prevented me from having a really good relationship with journaling and with reflecting because I was already going, how is this going to look in two years? How embarrassing is this going to be in a year? As opposed to being like, no, what I need to do right

now is talk about how much I want to cry and talk about how much things suck at this moment or how beautiful things are and how like cheesy as it sounds. I'm so glad I'm here in this moment, you know? And that's super common. Like you're not alone with that. I think when it comes to journaling, everyone should do it. It's the number one thing that's held my sanity together, like, and, and allowed me to really get to know myself. It's a space for your inner voice to shine. No judgment. Anne Frank said patient or Anne Frank said paper is more patient than people. And it's true. It's like paper is more patient than people. And before I even knew that I was doing that, I was writing because nobody, it felt like nobody heard me. Nobody understood me. It felt like my family that I was doing that, I was writing because it felt like nobody heard me. Nobody understood me.

It felt like my family, I was the youngest of three. My mom is super loud and outgoing, and my sister is too, and they would always fight. My brother and I would shrivel in, and where I got to be myself was in my journals. Then as I got to be a teenager or in college days, I started doing the same thing that you were doing, which is being a little bit performative with it like writing down the things that I thought would be cool to read back. And then I think just the sheer habit of doing it day after day, after day, after day, after day, you kind of just, you, you can't, you can't hide from yourself. You have to be real. You have to be authentic. What are you going to do? Put up a mask for yourself every single day? Like, no. And that's why I think the habit is really important. When

I think about journaling, it's not just like, oh yeah, journal once every year. It's like, journal as often as you can. There was this masterclass with, I forgot who it was, but she was a writer. And she said something that stuck with me. She's like, write when you're happy, write when you're sad, write when you're energized, write when you're tired. And I always think about that because I feel like in those moments where we don't want to write, it's when we need to write the most. And when it comes to journaling and everything that I do, honestly, it's never just this performative one the one-time thing it's not like i'm a sprinter i ran long distance for a reason i write in journals for a reason i learn languages for a

reason because the power is not in being perfected or perfect you know the power isn't in perfection the power is in progress so like when you journal you're journaling a progress so there's no pressure because the progress never ends until you're dead. And like we can keep doing this until we die. So when it comes to the pressure of like, oh, shit, I have nothing to write about. That's not the point. The point is another page. That's it. That's all you got to do is just one page, one day, one page at a time. And then at the end of a book, you realize, shit, I've written a book, but it was one page at a time. Joe, I feel like you're so you're my soul sister. So good. I'm just like, yes, yes, yes, yes. This is it. This is it. Okay. I want to transition to talking about your business, your career, how you kind of made travel your profession or part of your business. So very simply, how do you get paid to travel? Man, you spend a lot of hours editing videos

and content and posting it and engaging and repeating. So I started by filming my adventures with my old business partner, Damon. We spent the first, you know, from 2012 until 2018, 2019, we just spent those years grinding hard on YouTube. And I remember the first few days and months and years, even no one gave a shit. Like I had to bake cookies to convince people to subscribe to our YouTube channel. And even then they didn't subscribe. And this is a numbers game. Like you know, it's just the amount of content you have to put out on the algorithm to get picked up. That's how we lived. And all of this was happening while I was in college. So I was studying international business in Manhattan. I interned in seven different places. I had side jobs to make money as a waitress, hostess in restaurants.

I did everything. At the same time, I was a resident advisor at college so I could get free housing, desk attendant in the summers because I wanted to stay in New York and intern. And all of these experiences kind of got me this really nice resume not not just for the paper resume but like a resume of skills to pitch things and to like market things that i used in the youtube channel so when we started the youtube channel my goal was never to just be a youtuber it was to pitch a tv show and we pitched several executives and they all said no. And they said, young travel will never sell. Meanwhile, I was working at a travel agency. How does it feel to have egg in your face now, executives?

How does it feel, bud? I mean, shit, I had to work so hard to get that egg on their face. And even then, it's like the crazy things that you learn along the way. So the executives kept saying no. But we were pitching TV shows left and right. I was living in New York, flying to LA, figuring out how to get there with no money in my bank account, nothing but student loan debt piling up. Finally, I graduated college and had to make a choice. Was I going to accept a full-time job or take a risk and move to LA? And Damon, my old business partner, was like, I'm out,

deuces. And I'm like, shit. Okay. I guess I got to make a choice. I was offered a full-time job. I turned it down and quit moved to LA. And within the first three months with no plan B, we made the same amount of money as I was offered from that first job offer. And I've not worked for anyone else ever since that was in 2015. And so that started off just one video a week and then two videos a week and then three videos a week and really creatively pushing ourselves like, okay, we did this video in French. Now let's do one in Portuguese. Now let's do one in English. And then people started seeing us as hosts. So it wasn't just like, we're youtubers they saw that

we could speak and speak well and then we started getting hired to host shows for web series and traveling and and also still posting content so now we're dipping our toes into two worlds like we're content creators but we're also hosting things and i always wanted to be a businesswoman so at the same time, I'm like, shit, what is the business, right? Like, what are we doing to build something bigger? I don't want to be traveling for the rest of my life. Like, the irony here is when you make a career in travel, nobody tells you you will need to get on a plane to make money. And that sounds stupid of me saying that, but it really makes a difference when you have family members and you have nieces and

nephews and you have boyfriends or girlfriends. Like, it makes a difference when you have family members and you have nieces and nephews and you have boyfriends or girlfriends. Like it makes a difference because you're peeled away from the people you love and the things that you care about because you have to go to make money. So it's something that I didn't anticipate, but it happened. So for all of those years from 2015 to 2018, I sacrificed everything, sacrificed everything. Content, content, content, content, content, content, filming everything. My family got involved. Everybody knew I rediscovered this relationship with Brazil because we started making Portuguese videos and we had a huge following in Brazil. And, and then I was like, okay, we hit a million subscribers. I'm done. And then I was like, okay, we hit a million subscribers.

I'm done. Like this is where I personally am done because I've sacrificed seven years of my life for this and I've gotten to where I wanted to get and it's time for more because I feel like even though this was an amazing venture, I have so much more I want to talk about. And there's so much more where things like journaling, financial literacy, languages, like all of this was sitting in my journals. I have journal receipts, Tori, of all of these ideas. My podcast, Not Your Average Joe, was written in 2015 in a journal where I'm like, I would love to have a podcast. You know when I launched it? This year, 2022.

You know when I launched it? This year, 2022. So it's like all of this to say I had to walk away and say it's time for me to do what I need to do on my own. This is also when I got the email about an audition for a Netflix show where it would be a travel show, which is ironic because I was like, shit, do I want to keep traveling? And it's like, I do, but I want to do it on my own terms. I got the show, which was really crazy. I can't believe I hosted the show. And we did two seasons. And so in 2020, I was traveling. And I got this whole experience as like a travel TV host. Like now, technically, I was an employee. I was an employee to Netflix. So you're taking an entrepreneur for seven years, and you're putting her in the seat of an employee again. So I had that entire conversation in my mind. But it was Netflix and it was an amazing opportunity. And I got to see these beautiful places all around the world and learn so much about myself all while journaling and starting my journal club. So Joe Club was born at this time. So we filmed for six days a week. On Sundays, my one day off, I would host live journaling sessions with Joe Club members. Still happening till today.

So that's been going on for two years. After the show came out, I came back home and I'm like, okay, what's next? And this is where we're at now, where I've like picked up travel content, picked up language content, picked up journaling content. So the career was made simply by blood, sweat and tears and doing something authentic and posting on the internet, which is exactly what you did. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think it's so interesting because I am in the midst of, you know, I think it's so interesting because I am in the midst of, you know, talking with production companies and talking about TV shows. And it's exactly right as you went from being your own boss for seven years and continuing to do that, of course, but also now having a boss and that boss happens to be Netflix. So how is the process different working with, you know,

full production versus you having produced and created content on your own? A beautiful question. Nobody asks me that. People are always like, what was your favorite property? And I'm like, no, y'all, we got to talk about the other stuff. No, you can go watch. Go watch. Go watch her. Go watch her show on Netflix. No, I want to talk about how it was different because it's so it's yeah, it's it's also for me. I'm thinking about where I'm going and I'm like, OK, this is going to be an interesting, interesting, not sacrifice, of course, but like just like an interesting thing of like you have less creative control. I'm sure you you are. Yeah. You are now Netflix, Netflix property.

Exactly. And there's a lot that I can say about that where the main thing was it was the first time in seven years that i would show up and get a paycheck shocking that's a shocking concept for better and for worse for better because it's like okay i can have an off week and i don't have to push it push it push it i can show up do my job i don't need to be a super shining star this week and I'll still get a paycheck. And I was, I was always showing up. I showed up with my research, but the idea that like my paycheck is covered because I have a contract that to me was foreign because for seven years, if I didn't wake up and edit videos, I would not get a paycheck. But the downside was

that if I was excelling and performing extremely high and showing up with like top quality work, my paycheck would never go higher than what it was. So when you're an entrepreneur, your ceiling doesn't exist. But when you're an entrepreneur, neither does your floor. When you're an employee, at least you have a floor. You can fall down and you know that you have a paycheck. But you're capped at a ceiling, which is negotiated by you, your employers, whatever, your contract in this case. When it comes to the creative control, I think if you're creative, you'll find ways to be creative even in a tiny box. The box just

might get a little smaller. So even though I didn't have full creative control, I had creative control with how I displayed my properties, with the story I wanted to tell. And that was an exercise in itself because I was used to kind of commanding the ship. And now all I had was this property that I had to introduce to my co-hosts and I had to present this property and tell them why. And it was actually really fun for me to be like, what is the most creative way I can do this? So it gave me the opportunity to be really good at one thing. And when you're an entrepreneur, you have to be really good at everything, which means you're really bad at everything.

And so at the same time, I told my boss, you know, in the production company, I'm like, this is actually the dream job because for the first time in seven years, I'm getting paid to research and learn and think. I don't have to edit. I don't have to think. I don't have to edit. I don't have to post. I don't have to do business contracts. I can just like think and perform and, and right.

It's the ideation as opposed to the, the creation all of the time. That's something I struggle with too, where I don't have a lot of space or time to like do a lot of big picture thinking anymore because I'm just in creation mode I'm just in production mode exactly and when you have a show you have to surrender to that limitation but it's also very freeing so all of this is hypo like it's it's a hypocritical and it's, it's, there's a paradox there where it's like, I think there's a big value in doing a TV show in a show because it teaches you so much about

yourself that you wouldn't have access to. My favorite part about it too, was that I was working with other people and you can have employees when you're a business owner, but to have true colleagues was a luxury. It's like, I'm in this room filled with people that know stuff I don't know. And that to me was worth more than the paycheck, right? Like those relationships, the experiences that we had, all the behind the scenes moments, that's what was worth it to me. It wasn't the followers and it wasn't the fame and it wasn't the resume item and it wasn't the paycheck. It was the collaboration in making something huge, way bigger than I could have done on my own. But it comes at the price. It comes at the price. Right. So we've kind of tiptoed around this and we touched on it a bit. But I think a lot of people don't believe they can travel either

because they don't have the income that they think they need or they have this idea that traveling has to be in order to do it correctly. I put correctly in quotes, right? That it has to be like super luxurious or expensive or yeah, very Instagram worthy. So you've given some amazing advice already. Any like takeaway tips specifically for women who want to travel but are unsure how to make it work budget-wise? I think financially, being realistic with yourself is number one. I'm very much a saver, and I'm like, for better or worse,

I'm a scarcity mindset kind of a person. So maybe once every year I'll splurge, but for the most part, I stay below my means. I very much live below my means, and when I travel, I try to find those experiences that are free or, you know, those experiences that can put money back into my pocket. So the main thing that I would recommend, it's like I started making videos about traveling because I knew that if I kept doing it, it would actually pay for my travels.

I knew that if I kept doing it, it would actually pay for my travels. So it's ironic, right? It's like you can find ways to make it work. It's like if you're doing this thing already, how can you maximize on that financially? So if you're traveling around, how can you turn that travel into a money-making opportunity? So that's number one. Number it's take take the the day trips take the cheaper trips stay in hostels hostels are branded horribly that movie did not help and sometimes they are terrible but there are enough good hostels out there that i can highly recommend them and it's a great way to meet people as well especially if you're early if you're in your early 20s mid-20s when you get to your late 30s late late 20s, late 30s, it's probably better to take a group trip,

which ends up being the same cost as a hostel. It's like find these activities where you can go and learn cooking and stay in Mexico for a week and you can go alone. But you're immersed in this experience where you're like together with people that then become your friends. Group trips are a really good way to get access to these things as a solo woman traveler if you're feeling a little nervous. Save up. Like if you buy coffees every day, cut that out, make your coffee at home and put the coffee money in a jar. And by the end of a month, you'll have enough to buy a trip. It's really these

habits that we have in our day-to-day lives. And I know we spoke about this when you gave your final thoughts, which is like, think about what you're spending and think about what it's doing to you. When it comes to travel, I spend most of my money on travel. So I don't spend much money on other things, to be honest. Right. Because you've said that that's valuable for you. So if you like coffee, keep buying coffee. But if you are like, travel is where I want to spend my money. I talk about this all the time. We call it value-based spending at her first 100K, right? And this idea that if you want something and you want to spend money there, it means spending unabashedly in that area and then

cutting a bunch of the shit you don't like or the bunch of the shit you feel lukewarm on. So for me, I don't love coffee. I'm not a huge coffee drinker. If you love coffee and you're a listener, amazing. For me, that's not where my priorities lie. I would rather take that $3 a couple times a week or $5 a couple times a week, and instead put it towards a night at an Airbnb, right? Or a cooking class somewhere in Europe, right? I would rather use my money there because I can't buy everything. I can't afford absolutely everything. But if I've designated that travel is important to me, then that's where I want my money to go. Exactly. And it's day by day. It's page by page.

It's dollar by dollar. And it's these small little habits that amount to big, big things. But I would also highly suggest taking that opportunity. If you're saving money for travel, think about how can you maximize that in other ways, whether it's creating content, whether it's pitching yourself as a freelancer, wherever you're going. It's like that to me has been my saving grace. It's not just like, okay, I'm going to save money and take a trip. It's like, no, I'm going to save money, take a trip, document it. And that documentation is going to turn into the money making machine that'll allow me to pay for my next trip. Like that's how I'm thinking. And so with money in general, that's how I think.

I bought a treadmill and I was like, damn, am I really about to spend $600 on a treadmill? It was super cheap too. And my mom wanted it. And I bought a house for my mom. And my mom was like, oh, my doctor said I need to walk more. I bought this treadmill for my mom because we live in Connecticut and it's winter and you can't go outside. You can, but it's freezing. I get this treadmill and I'm like, you know what? I'm going to make money back on this treadmill. You know what I started doing? I started running on the treadmill, learning Greek and Arabic, and I used Pimsleur, which is a language learning software I highly recommend. I signed up for their affiliate program. And every time I posted myself running on the treadmill, practicing my Arabic, I would put the link and I have paid that treadmill over and over and over and over again. Smart girl.

that treadmill over and over and over and over again smart girl this is how i see everything i do it's like if i'm spending money on this how can this money work for me so that's my conclusion i think travel is very accessible but you got to be strategic i love it um thank you so much for coming on i i already have the travel bug and literally i'm like getting the itch as i'm speaking with you where i'm like okay where are we going next what are we doing now let's go so i know i'm just i i just love everything you're about and what you're doing um what is next for you and where can people find you what's next for me i'm surviving my 21 day language challenge which is a daily challenge where i'm encouraging people all around the world to learn languages with daily tasks and journal prompts. Scaling Joe Club, my journaling club, which is like a piece of my heart.

And I'm really curious to see how that's going to play out. And I have my podcast, Not Your Average Joe, where I interview dope people like you that help people be less average. That's been such a beautiful project. And I have my YouTube videos that I am going to start releasing again, where I actually have content from an Italian road trip, tons of food. My best friend and I also do a similar thing. We just haven't branded it, but very smart branding on Friend moon love it where did you go in italy where did you go so we started in milan we went to lake cuomo and we went all the way down the middle to to rome and every step of the way we're eating that's literally what we did so we

did southern italy in 2019 for like eight days and we did i always want to put the g in pulia but i'm like i want to pronounce it puglia but i think isn't it pulia pulia yeah oh yeah i'm bastardizing i'm americanizing it but yes did that region and then we did the amalfi coast and that was amazing and then yeah this trip was northern italy because we're obsessed with call me by your name so we did the full like call me by your name crema tour we did like como we did milan and then we ended up in uh like a winery we lived at a winery for two weeks outside of pisa again in like middle of nowhere town and yeah let's go i'm so excited i can't wait to watch andiamo let's go to sardinia we should totally go yes we um we went to um saturnia have you been there

no i wanted to go the hot springs so there is a five-star hotel there that was kind enough to put christine and i up in exchange for some posts i will send you the link this is a this is a not sponsored plug for them but honestly they it is the most beautiful spot. If you can ever get the opportunity to go, we'll link it in the show notes. They were the kindest. I flirted with the bartender. It was a great time.

It was just, it was amazing. And yeah, it's like, it's in Tuscany. It's probably, I think we drove for two hours outside of Florence to get there. You have to go, Jo. It's so cool. It's beautiful. I will go. for two hours outside of Florence to get there. You have to go, Jo. It's so cool. It's beautiful. I will go.

I'm going to check the show notes. I can't wait. I'll send you the link. But again, thank you so much. Thanks for coming on. And I so appreciate it. Thank you. You're a joy.

Y'all, we recorded that episode back in March and I am still loving it. I loved where the conversation went. This is the coolest thing about hosting a podcast where you bring really thoughtful people on is you think you're going to talk about one thing and you end up talking about that thing, but you also, I didn't expect to talk about journaling and talk about my experience there. And so it was such a cool, impactful episode. And Joe and I have now become friends offline and it's just been so amazing. So I appreciate you, Joe, for joining us.

We'll have links in the show notes to Joe Club and her YouTube channels, as well as her Netflix series and other ways to connect with her. If you are someone who loves to travel, a travel rewards credit card can be a great financial tool. I've talked about them on Instagram all the time. Literally using the points and the benefits from my travel card got me to Europe for free. It paid for my round trip flight to Europe. It gets me into airport lounges. It helps pay for my car rental insurance when I rent a car.

You get cash back. You get hotel stays just by using your credit card responsibly and smart. It's a complete game changer when you're traveling anywhere, but especially when you're traveling internationally. So you can see some of my favorite credit card recommendations at herfirsthundredk.com slash money dash tools. We'll also put it in the show notes. And if you're looking for more travel tips, check out the show notes for this episode,

where we're linking some of the best blogs on travel and specifically travel credit cards. And besides some great blogs, we've also got free downloads and eBooks to help you plan your travels coming very, very soon. We dedicated the whole month of June to travel resources and tips. So make sure you follow us on Instagram or sign up for our mailing list to make sure you don't miss a thing and you come back for that June content. Again, everything you need linked in the show notes. Can't wait to see you again, financial feminists. I'll talk to you soon. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100K podcast.

Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields, marketing and administration by Karina Patel, Olivia Koning, Sharice Wade, Alina Hilzer, Paulina Isaac, Sophia Cohen, Valerie Oresko, Jack Koning, Sharice Wade, Alina Hilzer, Paulina Isaac, Sophia Cohen, Valerie Oresko, Jack Koning, and Ana Alexandra. Research by Arielle Johnson. Audio engineering by Austin Fields. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton. Photography by Sarah Wolf. And theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K team and community for supporting the show. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests, episode show notes, and our upcoming book, also titled Financial Feminist, visit herfirst100k.com.