Financial Feminist - 159. My Salary, Sexual History, and Other Taboo Topics (Tori's Interview on The Real Stuff)

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

This week, we’re bringing you a special crossover episode with Lucie Fink — podcast host, video producer, digital educator, and host of “The Real Stuff with Lucie Fink.” In this insightful conversation, Tori details her journey to becoming a multimillionaire, demystifying the concept of "coast FIRE" and the significance of reaching that initial $100,000 savings goal. Tori generously shares her knowledge on effective investment strategies and highlights the power of financial literacy. This discussion goes beyond building wealth — it's a call to normalize conversations about money, sex, societal norms, and navigating the balance between privacy and openness in our personal lives. Read transcripts, learn more about our guests and sponsors, and get more resources at https://herfirst100k.com/financial-feminist-show-notes/159-my-salary-sexual-history-and-other-taboo-topics-toris-interview-on-the-real-stuff/ Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz Lucie’s links: https://lnk.to/TheRealStuffWithLucieFink  Instagram, TikTok, YouTube The Real Stuff Podcast Instagram Special thanks to our sponsors: Thrive Causemetics Get an exclusive 10% off your first order at thrivecausemetics.com/FFPOD Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You show up different in every aspect of your life when you are financially stable. Because you don't have to put up with bullshit. You don't have to put up with bullshit from anybody. Not a man, not a boss, not a client, not your parents. There's something so freeing about that and that's the feeling I want for every single woman on this planet. Hi financial feminists! Welcome to the show. I'm so excited to see you. This is a very, very fun episode today. We're just going to dive right in because it's a bit of a long one. I was lucky enough to be a guest on the Real Stuff podcast hosted by my friend and

someone that I've been looking up to for a very long time, Lucy Fink. You might know her from back in her Refinery 29 days where she hosted a video series called Try Living With Lucy. She now is a entrepreneur, self-employed in her own right and runs an incredible company focused on vulnerability and focused on talking about real shit. So I went on her podcast to not only talk about money and probably the most open I've been about my own personal finances, about what's in my bank account, et cetera. But we also talked about dating. We talked about sex. We talked about a lot of stuff.

Clearly I can't even say the word sex without my voice going up three octaves. So it was probably the most vulnerable conversation I've ever had in a public arena. And we're really excited to share this episode with you. And we always love sharing episodes of shows that I've been on as a way of continuing to supplement our content that we're producing. If you're wondering where to get started with your money, you can go to herfirsthundredk.com slash quiz, her first, so H-E-R-F-I-R-S-T-1-0-0-K.com slash quiz. We'll also link it down below to take our free money personality quiz. This is the easiest way to get a free personalized money plan, especially if you're feeling overwhelmed

about money. So if you came here wondering where to get started, go ahead and listen to the episode and maybe take the quiz at the same time. All right. Without further ado, let's go ahead and get into it. First, a word from our sponsors. I'm so excited that you're here. I'm excited to be here. How's Milo doing?

He's great. We actually just had a crazy situation. He has this baby doll that was mine when I was little and he's fallen in love with it. He calls her baby. A couple hours ago, we're about to put him down for a nap and we can't find baby anywhere. We're like digging through the couch cushions. We're looking everywhere and he's hysterical and we have to send him to sleep with it. My mom thankfully got multiple copies of the same doll, but he knows which one is his because it's like hand is falling apart.

And we sent him to bed without it. He was upset, but he went to bed. And then our nanny drove to his school and she pulled up in the parking lot where she took him out this morning and baby was on the ground in the parking lot. Oh my gosh. So we rescued her. Thank God. I had a similar incident when I was seven or eight. He was snuggie. He was literally,

it's so random. My parents and my grandparents, I'm sure spent hundreds of dollars on toys for me. This was the snuggle that came with the fabric softener. And I decided that that was mine. That is what you care about. Yeah. I was probably like seven or eight and I loved this thing and we were on a cruise and he was the same color as the sheets. So he got left behind. And my mom was calling Royal Caribbean for like a year after, bless her. And we never found Snuggie and I was- There's no getting back things that are left. Devastated devastated utterly devastated

So I'm glad we found baby now that babies recovered the world can move forward Here we are. I'm so excited to have you Tory on the real stuff podcast We have a lot to dive into today and I naturally thought of you as an early guest for this show Because one of the main themes is money. And as anyone who follows you knows, you are the financial feminist. We are going to talk about money. Yeah. 100%. So yeah, we are going to talk about money, but we're also going to talk about some other topics. And you know, I did, we'll get into those. We'll get into those down the line because we got interesting boundaries up that

we want to uncover as well. Totally. I am both nervous and excited to talk. So I'm so used to talking about money, which I think most people aren't. That's the one that I'm like, yeah, sure. Ask me any financial question you want. And then on our little intake forum, Lucy's like, can we talk about your sex life? And I was like, no, we can't, but I'm sure we're going to get there. Well listen, I'll set up first and foremost, as I say with all my guests, any question I ask you, fair game for you to reject wanting to answer. And I will not push you to answer anything you're uncomfortable with. I purely will want to know if you can kind of articulate your discomfort and where the

boundary lies. Yep, I'm happy to do that. So yeah, thrilled to be here. I was telling you when we hopped on that I think the last time we spoke not over text or Instagram was, uh, Lucy taking some very kind time out of her day to do an informational interview with me when I was 22. I watched every single Try Living with Lucy on Refinery29 was obsessed with her and was like, maybe she'll take 20 minutes. And you were so kind. And it's just, yeah, very, very crazy to think about what's happened since. So, yeah. And at the time you were just starting up your business.

As a little, little baby. And now here you are in your later 20s. You are a multimillionaire as you share across social media. I want to know, I saw a post recently, how old are you right now? I'm 29. I'll be 30 in July. Okay. So I saw a post from probably a repost because it was a recent post, but it was saying that you were 27 and that you will have $30 million when you retire. What is the latest on this? You're 29 and you will have how many million? Actually, I could do that math really quick. You might want to cut this, hold on.

Because here's the thing, and anybody could do this. The math is you take the number you have in investments and then we know that roughly every 10 years it's gonna double. So, give me one second. So you can actually figure out my net worth, which I've never really said if we do this. That was one of my questions.

We'll see if we get to that. Well, and we can talk about why I don't reveal that anymore. So that's 39, 49, 59. Let's call it, yeah. So at 59, I'll have 32 million. And if I never save another penny after today, which I will continue to do, that's just based on what I have now. We call that in the personal finance community, like coast fire, which is like, you might

not have enough to retire at this moment, which actually I do. I could stop working right now, but there are some people who are just like, I have enough where I don't have to save another penny and my earnings will make me enough to retire someday. So yeah, it's probably it's around 30 to 40 million. If we just keep what we have in the account right now and allow it to grow. I want to dive into where we're at today. I have some questions about your current investments and your financial situation right now. But I do think one thing that's maybe less spoken about

on your platforms that I wanna go back to is your whole financial story and how you grew up with money. What kind of family did you come from and talk about that first 100K? Yeah, so I had parents who didn't grow up with a lot themselves. And so their commitment when they decided to have kids and I'm an only child, it was like, okay, so we didn't grow up with a lot themselves. And so their commitment when they decided

to have kids and I'm an only child, it was like, okay, so we didn't have a lot. We didn't really grow up with a conversation about money. So we are going to do things differently. We were having conversations about how to save, about how to use a credit card responsibly. And I just thought that was normal because that was my only experience is I was like, oh, everybody knows not to overspend on credit cards. And everybody knows how to navigate taking on debt. And of course, I realized very quickly that that wasn't the case, and that I was the friend

all of my friends were coming to for advice and guidance. And so her first 100K was kind of born, both from me realizing that when I had money, I had options. When I had money, I was able to leave a bad or toxic situation. I was able to start a business. I was able to donate to causes I believed options. When I had money, I was able to leave a bad or toxic situation. I was able to start a business. I was able to donate to causes I believed in. I was able to take a vacation. And also, I graduated college right around when Lucy and I

talked the first time. I graduated in 2016, and Donald Trump got elected not soon after that. And so I was coming into adulthood and really into womanhood in a very different country than I think a lot of us expected, expecting our first female president, and so we get Donald Trump.

And so I was trying to figure out, what kind of person do I want to be? What do I stand for? And the election really radicalized me in my early 20s. And I was like, oh, I think that this is the answer to the equality picture. I don't think we have any sort of equality for any marginalized group until we have financial equality. So if I can get more money into more women's hands, I've seen firsthand

in my life how it's made an impact. And so her first 100k was born on the side of my nine to five in marketing from that kind of belief. So her first 100k's origin story was me trying to save a hundred thousand dollars at age 25. I joked that as long as I did it the day before I turned 26, it's still counted. So I hit my goal. I was 25 years and I think three months old. It was September of 2019. And I literally went to Europe to celebrate with my best friend. I got the call to be on Good Morning America in a pub in London. I came home, did the interview and quit my job three weeks later. And then since then, her first 100K has just grown to the incredible platform it is now. We have 4 million followers. We have a New York Times bestselling book called Financial Feminist. Financial Feminist, our podcast,

is the number one money podcast for women in the world. So it's just been crazy how much both personally, my personal finances have been impacted and how much has changed since that first 100K or really since the financial education I got from my parents, but also the impact we've been able to make for other women. Would you say that your parents growing up were in the middle class bracket or would you have classified them as poor or wealthy? I would probably say middle class, maybe even upper middle class. This is the interesting thing where I actually don't know my parents' net worth. Like I am so. Did you know what their salaries were when you were growing up?

No, my mom was a non-compensated working parent, so she's a stay-at-home mom. And my dad was the primary breadwinner. I still don't know. And I was actually just home a couple days ago. And I was like, isn't it ironic that I talk about money for a living and yet I still don't know? Like I don't know the net worth and I probably won't until they knock on

wood dot. Like I, I, I won't know until they're dead. And so that even as something that I love what you're doing with this show and what we're trying to do at her first 100 K is like, there is a generational gap between how people feel comfortable talking about money or don't feel comfortable talking about money. So I had two parents who did a very radical thing and unfortunately a very rare thing, which was teach me about money, but they're also extremely private people and I don't know how much they make. So I mean, I never wanted for anything. I am a cisgendered white woman. I have a lot of privilege in that. I went to good schools. I graduated debt-free from college, which was a combination of me working jobs

and getting merit scholarships and also my parents having saved since I was a kid. So, you know, there was a lot of financial privilege, but it was definitely because, you know, my parents were really strategic. We never bought something we couldn't afford. They didn't live beyond their means. They still live in the same house I grew up in. They're still driving cars from like the late nineties, early 2000s. Like they're very, very smart, strategic savvy people when it comes to money. It's very interesting. I'm curious with your dad today, if you were to ask him, can you tell me what salary you made when I was growing up? Or is he still working today? What are

you making today? Would he flat out say, no, I'm not comfortable sharing that with you? He would definitely say, no, I'm not going to share it with you. Yeah. Because I kind of did when I just saw them a couple of days ago. I know he makes more than six figures, but that's all I know. That's all I know. We have had a conversation of like, are you taking care of for the rest of your life? Because we have so many community members, especially we see with, you know, women of color with first gen, it's like, I am my parents retirement, like they don't have retirement savings, they don't have a plan to stop working because they can't afford it. So I am their retirement, I am their 401k. And one of the

things I've sat down with my parents about is it's like, do I need to take care of you? Are you OK? And they're like, we're OK. We're good for the rest of our lives. They have a binder of like, here are the accounts. Here's where they live. Here's the log in information. Here's who you need to talk to to get to here.

And they literally have told me, here's where this is. Here's where this binder is. And here's all the information in there. So I think that, you know, it's so important to talk about one end of life as hard as that can be, like do they have wills? Do they have, you know, money that's somewhere, what happens if something happens?

And then the second thing is, are they good for the rest of their lives? My parents are early 60s, like are they good for the rest of their lives? Yeah, are early 60s. Are they good for the rest of their lives? Yeah, wow, that's a great thing to encourage people to talk about with family. I'm really intrigued by your journey from you graduated college in a very privileged way,

being debt free, and here we are, now you're starting, and you said you worked in marketing. What was your starting salary out of college? Starting salary was $55,000. And I live in Sam. Hey, look at that. Um, so yeah, I live in Seattle. And that was where I started my career. So I graduated college in May of 2016 and got my first job in July. I actually already had like a freelance side hustle client as well. So I was making money on the side of that too. So I had a little bit of income coming in. One of the common things that people who don't really know my story will say when they hear, oh, a hundred K at 25 is they'll go, oh, she lived at home. I lived at home from May to October. So two months of not working or

like working freelance, this like freelance gig that was definitely not, you know, a full time job. And then a couple months of commuting in my parents live in Tacoma, which is about an hour outside of Seattle, hour and a half with traffic. And so I would commute in every day until it was very obvious to everybody that I it was time to move out. So yeah, I only lived at home for a couple months $55,000 in Seattle. I can walk you through my whole salary journey until HFK if you want. Sure. Yeah. So 55 K was my first salary. I was there for a year and got a raise to, was it 20%? So $66,000. I infamously then took a job. I talked about this in the intro of my book, Financial Feminist, that was super toxic, but I negotiated $20,000 more than they wanted to pay me. So my salary was $80,000. So we took a jump from 66 to 80, but it was so toxic that I had to quit without another

job lined up after about three months. So now we're at like January of 2018 and I'm unemployed. So I spent a couple months unemployed until I found my last corporate job, which was starting salary 70,000. And then after a year, I received a raise up to $77,000. So that was my corporate life. I was never making over 100K, but I was making a pretty decent salary for someone just out of college.

I was also, there were times where I was getting some side hustle or some freelance income. And then there was other times I wasn't receiving any of that income. So it kind of depended on, you know, seasonality and how the business was doing. 2019 was our most successful year because her first 100k was starting to get off the ground. And that was one of the reasons I was able to hit that 100k as quickly as I did, was I had my primary source of income where I was saving a percentage of that

money, but then also putting some side hustle money into savings or investments. When you say first 100K, just to clarify for people, that means having $100,000 in either savings or investments or just somewhere you can access it. You got it. That was my own 100K. Now, we named the company her first 100. So it wasn't, you know, her first 100K saved your 100K can be whatever, whatever it looks like to you. Maybe that's a hundred K net worth, maybe that's a hundred K of debt paid off for me. That was, I have a hundred K in assets, meaning in my 401K in my Roth IRA, in my emergency fund.

So yeah, I had a hundred thousand dollars worth of money. And that happened September, 2019 great year. That was my emergency fund. So yeah, I had a hundred thousand dollars worth of money. And that happened September 2019. Great year. That was my wedding month and year. Love it. So here we are. I'm getting married. You have a hundred K now. What were some of the steps that you took to go from where you were post-college? Which by the way, did you ever share when you came out of college, knowing that you didn't have debt, did you already start with some sum of money that either your parents had gifted you or that you had saved yourself coming out of college? I think I maybe had like $2,000 that we didn't end up spending on college, but no, I literally

had a conversation senior year with my parents halfway through where they're like, we and I was every year, we sat down every single semester as a family and said, like, what are you contributing? What do we have? And that was a, you know, back and forth conversation. So I remember halfway through my senior year being like, can we do this without taking on debt? And we like, we just got through by the skin of our teeth without me having to take out a student loan. So to get from 2000 to six figures in just a few years, was this primarily done through the stock market or through your 401k? What were the various modes? Yeah, great question. So the 100k was a couple different things. The first is that I negotiated my salary every single time I could. And so I was not only negotiating my pay every time I got a new job, but I wasn't afraid to job hop either. That's, you know, we were talking about the generational divide. That's one of those things that I think to our parents generation, it's like, job hoppings and professional, you know, my dad's

been a, you know, his previous company for like 13 years, my uncle literally did not leave one company he started when he was 23 and left when he was like 70. Like it was the same company. For me, every like year and a half, two years, I was like, okay, it's time. And I think that that's actually one of the most advantageous things you can do is if you're not happy or you don't feel like the job is compensating you fairly anymore, it might be time to move on. The second thing I did was, like I said, saving a portion of my income and I did that on autopilot. I mentioned in my book, Financial Feminist, how to do this, but if you can set up an automatic

transfer from your checking account to your savings account, this is what we call in the personal finance industry, paying yourself first. So it's like you're a bill, but before you even see a paycheck sometimes, your money's already gone into savings, so you don't have to think about it It's just happening. So I was saving how much exactly were you auto transferring at that point? You got it 27% of my take-home pay was what I worked up to it was not 27% the entire time It was the number that I found and I call it like the sticky number. It was not me purchasing everything I wanted in my discretionary with my discretionary money, but it was not me feeling

deprived either. It was like the number that felt challenging, but not like I couldn't go out to eat or couldn't do fun things. So I worked my way up to that percentage. I treated it like a game. I was like, let's see how much we can save. Oh, no, that's too much. Let's take it down. Or, oh, I think I can actually go another one or 2%. And then everything I made on the side after taxes and expenses went into

either savings or investments. And then that's the last thing is what we see with women is that they either wait longer to invest compared to men or don't invest at all. And so through things like your 401k or your IRA, which are investment accounts for retirement using the stock market for your own retirement, I was able to allow my money to grow for me in a way that I didn't have, I wasn't taking a hundred thousand dollars of cash and saving it.

It was, if I had to guess, probably like $88,000 or maybe $90,000. But that extra couple thousand dollars or even up to $10,000 was my investment gains working harder for me. So anytime you're trying to save for any goal, whether that's retirement or your wedding or an emergency fund, using things like a high yield savings account for short term goals,

but an investing account for those longer term goals like retirement allows compound interest to work harder for you. So that's one of the ways I hit that hundred case so quickly is I started investing when I was 22 and I was allowing the stock market to, to work harder for me. Now, if we would have had a recession when I was 23 and 2017, my a hundred K wouldn't have happened as fast. If I would have had student loans, my a hundred K wouldn't have happened as fast. If I would have had student loans,

my 100K wouldn't have happened as fast, right? There was a lot of different factors there. And, you know, privilege is 100% part of my story. It's also hard work. It's also, you know, smart financial decisions. But you can take parts of my story and apply them to your own life, whether that is automating your savings

or negotiating your salary, or, yeah, starting to invest if you haven't invested before. At this point, were you making sure that once you moved out of your parents' house in October, so now you're living on your own, were you always making sure that the amount you were paying for rent, I'm assuming you were renting at that time, was a certain percentage of your take home as well to limit that? Personal finance is personal. I always say that there's not a

magical percentage, but I was being strategic about like where I was living. And that's always, you know, what I encourage, especially women to do, oh, my gosh, is like, we are told as women that the reason we're not rich is because we spend money, right? Scram, save, deprive yourself, the latte is the reason you're not rich. And like, first of all, no, it's systemic oppression. And two, the things that were told as women that are frivolous, the reasons we're not rich, they're in stereotypically feminine, it's not NFL season tickets

or like golf clubs, it's lattes or manicures. But what do we tell men? We tell men to increase their income, right? We tell men to invest and to negotiate. And so that's one of the things I tried. I figured out through trial and error is I'm like, okay, I can cut some expenses that's helpful, but at the end of the things I figured out through trial and error is I'm like, okay, I can cut some expenses. That's helpful. But at the end of the day, there's only so many

things I can cut. And there's only so many things I want to cut in order to still have a good life where I still get to travel and I still get to go out to eat and do fun shit. So then it became, okay, how do I increase my income as opposed to decreasing my spending? So after we get to this hundred K point, what do we do now to increase? What do you do now to increase that income? Is it about aggressively investing or did you go in another direction in terms of trying to get a higher salary? I mean, for me, once I hit the hundred K, you know, I quit my job three weeks later. And for me, it was time to go all in on my business. That was kind of the promise I made to myself was the hundred K was the ticket out of corporate, um, was my, you know, kind of, uh, I don't know if I want to call it allowance,

but it was my permission slip to be able to say, okay, I have enough money in the bank to fall, you know, to fall against if something happens or if I can't make this work, I have a little bit of a runway and a leeway. And also I have enough save for retirement to buy me some years where if I'm not contributing to my retirement savings, I'm still going to be okay. So yeah, September 2019 hit my hundred K goal, October quit my job or put in my two weeks by like the first week in November, I was full-time entrepreneur. And keep in mind, we're in 2019, right? We don't know what's coming with COVID. I quit my job like three months before global pandemic. Yeah, it ended up really working

out. We ended up actually blowing up in the pandemic. And I was making, I remember still to this day, I think I made my entire yearly corporate salary in like two months. And I was like, oh shit, okay, this can work. And not only can this work, I think this can do really, really well. And so yeah, 2020 was, you know, a bad year personally for me and a rough year, I think, of course for the world. But financially, we were we were cooking with gas at that point.

So to dive into being an entrepreneur online you know a lot of people in a lot of different fields want to make a career out of being online and there are obviously endless ways to do it. In your case were you monetizing off of selling digital courses, selling physical products? What were you selling? And talk a little bit about how you just sort of learned how to do that. Because I feel like a lot of people that want to get into this space wind up getting sucked into buying all these courses of people

who are trying to teach you how to sell a course. And it can feel like crazy noise. So what did you do exactly to make that salary in two months? Yeah, I love this question. I have her first 100k has multiple sources of income. They've changed over the years. So I can give you like what we're doing now, and also what it was like in 2020. So we have like digital downloads and courses. So you can buy our resume template, you can buy our course about how to pay off debt. You can also invest in Pun intended and our stock market school, which teaches you how

to invest. It's like an annual membership program. That's more intense. I'm in there doing coaching and we have an actual technology through which you can invest through. And so that's technically even three sources of income, but kind of like our products, right? The things that we create that we sell.

So that's one source of income. Second thing is like straight up influencer partnerships, like hashtag ad, I'm talking about this product on Instagram or TikTok, and we get compensated for discussing that product. The third way is kind of in conjunction with that influencer partnership, which is an affiliate deal. That means if I am working with a brand

and somebody signs up for that brand or purchases that product, I get a percentage. So we're no longer working on just a flat fee for posting. Instead, I get a commission basically. The fourth way we make money is through our podcast. So we have partnered with an ad partner to be able to run ads on the show. So we get compensated for the ads on the podcast. The fifth one is the book, pretty obvious.

If the book sells, we get royalties on that book, but it's a very small percentage. And that's a whole other conversation for another time about how I've never worked harder on anything in my goddamn life and seen less money. It's like, you know, $2 a book. And I put my entire heart and soul into that for like five years. So book is another way we make money. I'm a speaker, I'm a public speaker. So I will speak at a conference or speak at a corporation to do a workshop or like a women's empowerment event. So I get compensated that way. That's most of them. I'm trying to think if there's anything else, but that's, you know, the majority of how we make

money in terms of what we were doing in 2020. I think the first time I was really making, I remember I made like $20,000 off of course launch. And then I split that with a friend of mine. And, um, again, in 2020, that was more money than ever. I was like, Oh my god, this is crazy. And that was off of us launching a course for you know, like a week and then closing it down. Are you comfortable sharing, you know, although I would love to get granular and go through each of those revenue streams and hear more about them. Let's just take 2023. Yeah, last year, full year 365 days, what your full businesses gross revenue was from all of those streams of

income. Yeah, so we did I can pull it up. Give me one second. I want to get the I love a tracker. We call it the BS. It's the big spreadsheet. But we also we do it through more advanced means than this too. So we just, we did a little under 4.1 million gross revenue last year. Are you comfortable sharing how much of that you had to then pay for whether it's contractors or just to keep the business running? Yeah. The profit, we made a lot of investments in 2023. So we actually had a less profitable year than 2022 because we brought more people on and we were more strategic there.

I don't know right off the top of my head what that profit was, but it was at least 50% or maybe let's say like 1.8 million of that. And almost all of it is reinvested back into the business or is sitting as reserves in case we have a bad quarter or a bad year. This is the fun thing, and we can talk more about this, of me being financially independent is, you know, I pay myself a salary, I pay myself a little bit of money from the business, but at this point now, I'm pretty financially taken care of, at least at this point in my life. I'm single, I don't own property, I don't have children, I have nobody, you know, again, huge privilege.

Nobody financially dependent on me except me. Well, and the 15 employees I pay. But now, now my job is to reinvest back into the business. My job is to make sure that the business and thus my employees and our team members are protected. So a lot of the work we've done in the past year or so is if we do make a profit, the profits sitting there, waiting for us to reinvest it back into the business or sitting there in case we have something like a recession or we lose a massive client or something happens to the business. Last week I was in New York City and I had an entire week of crazy, incredible work things. Monday was Good Morning America, Tuesday a shoot with Forbes, Wednesday was a speaking engagement and frankly it was more being on than I've had to do in a long time and I needed my makeup to

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USE METICS cause like a cause you support, get it? .com slash FF pod for 10% off your first order. I'm sure I could backtrack and do the math with the formula you said before, but if you are saying that you in 30 so years will have whatever you said 30 to 40 million in investments, how much cash does that mean has been invested thus far? That is one thing I am not comfortable talking about, but I will tell you why. Yes, please. So my 100k at 25, I was literally screenshotting my bank account. No personal

information, but like you could see exactly how much I had. And then when we became more successful and our social media followers increased and my notoriety and I started becoming a public figure, a couple interesting things start to happen. One, as someone who believes in financial transparency, it kills me that I can't do this anymore. But the reason I don't feel comfortable anymore is when women have money as a society, we are extremely uncomfortable. We are extremely uncomfortable with women having money, with pursuing money, with wanting money. And it's one of the narratives I talk about in my book

that is so damaging to women, because we weaponize women's altruism, and we tell them that the pursuit of money is bad or gross or greedy. It's not. I want options for myself. I want options for our. I want options for our community. I want to be able to donate to causes I believe in and donate to policies I believe in and make the world a better place. Right. And I want to make sure I'm protected.

We, we absolutely worship men with wealth in this country, yet we are so uncomfortable. We're just uncomfortable with women having money. So that's the more minor version of this. And it shows up in social media comments. It shows up in just people's overall perception of me. But more seriously, it shows up in death threats, in me feeling worried about my safety and about my family safety. If I start posting screenshots about how much money I have, well, what happens when someone

gets a hold? I even, Lucy, I just said this and like, I don't even like saying it out loud because maybe I'm giving somebody an idea, but like, if somebody finds my address, if somebody finds my family's address, like, what does that mean? And oh gosh, it's gonna make me a little emotional. But I literally had a conversation with our insurance agent two years ago of like, okay, I have business insurance, do I need to take out what they call K and R insurance, which is like, do I need to take out this insurance? Because this is a real thing. So this is the very whole mission of her first 100K is it's like the irony of like when women hit a certain point of financial success, we start to call them greedy, we start to take them down, we start to realize that they're uncontrollable. And so we try to control them. Or more seriously, there's a significant threat to somebody's safety, and to

somebody's livelihood. And that's a risk that for me is now beyond me. It's about, you know, my partner, it's about my family, it's about my parents. And so this was a conversation that we all had together. So as much as I would love to sit here and tell you, here's my net worth, here's my screenshots, here's everything. Even me saying multi-millionaire makes my parents break out in hives. Like even that is enough to make my parents lose sleep at night. But that is for me the happy medium of transparency with managing safety in regards to that too. Yeah. I mean, that is terrifying and thank you for sharing that. We might have to cut that.

I'm like, I might message you after and be like, please cut because like you don't want to give anybody ideas. Like people are fucking nuts. The internet's fucking crazy. Like, you know, I was going to say thank you for sharing that because I too have, you know, a lot of my biggest fears are things that I would be afraid to share, to say out loud, but I think you're doing it right because, you know, sharing as you've just done your business's revenue, as I've also done with my audience, is like a year in time, a year

snapshot, but it's terrifying that you have to think about that and thank you for sharing it. I think that when we are transparent about money, because we live in a society that is uncomfortable with that, especially women making money, the conversation then becomes, well, why are you charging for your services? Like I hear that a lot. If you really cared, you would just do this for free. And I'm like, you have never said to a doctor or a lawyer, especially a male doctor or a

lawyer, if you just loved this, you would do this for free. It's like, it's not, again, it's not just about me. And even if it was, I'm allowed to compensate people fairly for my services. That's the first thing, but like I have a team, right? I have salaries, I pay, I have business expenses. So that's the other, again, more less egregious, like more minor part of this is that when you do start talking openly about money, people start becoming entitled to tell you how you should run your business or they feel like they have reason to tell you, oh, well, this should be free or this shouldn't be this expensive or why aren't you just doing this because you love it?

And so that's the other part that I think is if you do have those, you know, maybe you're even listening to this and you're listening to me and you've had some of those feelings, that's the perfect opportunity to ask yourself, what kind of internalized misogyny is going on inside of me where I don't feel comfortable with women having money or with women charging what they're worth or with, you know, businesses making money. I've said so many times before and I'll say it again, I don't want to win capitalism. I don't want to be a billionaire. That means I've probably exploited somebody. That's not what I want. I also can't lose capitalism either, because I'm doing myself a disservice. That means deep suffering to myself and my family and my community. So what I'm trying to do, in which I'm teaching other women to do, is how do we survive capitalism? How do we navigate it to the best of our ability so that we're doing the least amount of harm possible while making the biggest impact we can? And so if you do have that feeling, but either yourself of like, I don't deserve to make money, I don't want to pursue wealth because it's bad. Or if you're looking at, especially women online and going, well, why aren't they just doing this for free? Or why are they charging that much? They deserve to charge that much. They deserve to run their businesses just like we'd expect anybody else to run their businesses. And I think that's the other part that we need to talk about is when we are financially transparent, people have opinions and they only have opinions about this one thing about somebody's life or about somebody's business. And they don't know

the whole picture. They're not interested in knowing the whole picture. They're just interested in yelling. You know, I had a conversation with a creator. I actually mentioned this in the show's first solo episode where I was going to bring her on the show and then she was uncomfortable. She told me upfront she's uncomfortable talking about money on social media. And she said that her main reason for it, and which this is now the lighthearted version of the really scary things that could happen when you screenshot your bank account, she said she doesn't want to share how much she's making with her followers because she just thinks it's going to make her followers like her less if they know that she's doing well, which is such a sad, such a sad reality.

I think you are the polar opposite of that in that your actual whole platform is about talking about that. And I'm sure you do receive- No, but I feel it. I feel it because- I'm sure you receive, you know, your fair share of hate from people because of that.

But I do also find that because you are a creator in this niche, it's almost like people have maybe put you into a separate category where they're like, okay, I don't want to hear that every influencer is successful, but this girl Tori, it's okay if she says she's a millionaire because her whole platform is about helping us become millionaires as well. So it's almost like a give back element. I mean, I really hope that's how people feel because that's what I want is it's like, I hope that me showing up confident and talking transparently about money makes you feel like you can be confident and, and pursue money.

Like that's the whole goal. But I do think, I mean, this is a large conversation that, you know, I don't even know if we want to open this can of worms, but like, what is authenticity on the internet as much as people, you know, demand authenticity. Everything is a performance at the end of the day. And, you know, to that person's point of like, Oh, if I post how much I make, I'm no longer basically I'm no longer going to be relatable or authentic to people. Like, that's real is again, we have standards for people we've never met. And then when they fail to achieve those standards, we're mad. And we put people on pedestals you not as a content creator, you know, actually showcase your life? If it is, you know, yachts and designer purses, which my life is not, but like,

do you no longer show that part of your life, but then it's not authentic. So you know, you're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that.

You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. you know, actually showcase your life if it is, you know, yachts and designer purses, which my life is not, but like, do you no longer show that part of your life? But then it's not authentic. So we're in this like weird authenticity performance, but also everybody has different rules and expectations of what that should look like. So, I mean, I don't blame this person. The internet, again, is a scary place.

I don't blame this person at all for being like, I can't show up and talk about money because people are going to judge me for it. And you know, I think that this conversation is inextricably linked to the conversation about mental health, specifically as a creator, because this is your job, you're showing up every day. I'm sure that as much as you're really happy with what you're doing, and you are showing up authentically, I'm sure that some of the shit that you see online written about you and publicized is just not ideal. And I want to get into, you know, I actually was looking through a lot of your posts

in anticipation of this podcast. I just truly saw how much the internet sucks in some of your comments, which perhaps were, you know, when a post goes on the wrong side of the internet sucks in some of your comments, which perhaps were, you know, when a post goes on the wrong side of the internet. Many of your posts have made it on the wrong side. Many are on the right side. You can see a lot of people are commenting, requesting your courses and requesting your content. But when it gets to the wrong side, let me tell you it's the wrong side.

And I saw this one post you made. It said, the text on it was things men have said to me when they discover I'm a multimillionaire. The comments are just many of the comments are nice. Many are atrocious. Do you mind if I read a few that I saw? You can go for it. Well first one, this one wasn't that bad, but it was a person quoting you saying I'm a multimillionaire and then saying literally zero proof. This gets back into our earlier conversation of you having a reason for not wanting to share

that. Also, I don't need to prove jack shit to you. This is what is going to happen is Lucy, you're going to say one and then I'm going to be like, here's my side comment back. Please give me the retort. Please, I want the retort. The second one I wrote down is people who are worth millions don't make videos about being worth millions. Wealth does not scream but whispers. I mean, in some aspects, yes. But also, again, this is the whole platform of what we're trying to do is make financial conversations part of the norm. And also, yes, literally making

videos makes me money. So fuck you. And you know, this person has three followers and it's like, user 76809 or some shit, you know? Okay. Also my response to that question is we have to have people in our society who are talking about it because otherwise they're hoarding the information and no one else is going to get there. Also no one has ever commented that on Elon Musk or Bill Gates, right? It's all sexist and I know where we're going here. So you got to keep going. Also, this is very therapeutic for me because these are the conversations. These are the retorts I practice, like as I'm falling asleep at

night, but can never say so feel free. Yes, we know the fact. I love this. Here we go. And here, here's my third one, which I, you know, I only wrote three down. You know what I wrote the McDonald's comment? No, but it's close. It says all that money and no gym membership. And first of all, fuck you, whoever you are. Second of all, I have seen you post a handful of posts about an ex boyfriend's mom who made some comments about your body. Can we get into this? Yeah, we're going to cry, but we can get into it. First of all, these are comments that actually don't do much to me because they're small, tiny men who I literally, I use their

comments to make more posts and it makes me really happy. And it makes you more money. Truly. And when, to your point about wrong side of the internet, I know my posts have actually gone really viral when they've gone outside of our sphere or our community and landed on some fuckboys FYP. Like that actually is great. So it's actually not these comments that hurt me very much. It's the comments from women. Like women have, we all have internalized misogyny and those are the ones that really devastate me. all have internalized misogyny. And those are the ones that really devastate me. And but we'll stay on this for a second. Yeah. So, um, I was lucky enough to not really have many problems with my body or with my own appearance. I had many friends growing up

who either, you know, struggled with disordered eating or just didn't like what they saw in the mirror. And I think I truly had the the version of body neutrality where I was like, yeah, there's some stuff I want to probably change, but no, I really like myself and I don't have a lot of negative feedback towards me. And I've told this story in many, many posts. First of all, I will couch this by saying that this person was struggling with a lot of things this by saying that this person was struggling with a lot of things in their life that we only discovered later, truly hurt people hurt people. And also their mother, his mother was struggling with a lot of things, I think about herself and about liking herself. And so I give so much grace to them understanding that, yeah, they were going through some shit.

They were going through their own shit. But as most people are truly as most people are the like instigators of these types of things. Yeah. So, um, this was my first real love. This was like the person that, you know, was my first real relationship. Like I thought I was getting married to this person. Like this was my first like real boyfriend and I was 20 when we met and I think I would have been still 20 or maybe 21 by this time. We are on a beach in Hawaii. This is the first time I have met his family, met his parents. I just want to give 20 year old me a big hug because she didn't deserve this. My boyfriend, you know, I'm in a swimming suit on the beach and he says something to me like, he says something to me like, I think you should lose some weight. And this is someone who, you know, has loved me and called me beautiful and has desired me. And this is

just so out of the blue. And I just look at him and I'm like, what are you talking about? And he's like, I just think you should lose some weight, I think, and like was clearly trying to like, say it, but not say it. And I have a different relationship with the word fat now. I think a lot of us do fat in my early 20s was a bad thing. And so I asked him, like, do you think I'm fat? And he goes a little bit. And I think there's these moments in your life, I think there's these moments in your life where I look back and I have so much grace for myself that I wanted to make a decision and I knew what the right decision was and I didn't. I was in Hawaii and speaking of like, you know, being financially stuck, I

was in college. I couldn't afford a flight home. I couldn't afford to change my flight, but I was like, I don't want to be here anymore. I want to get out. This is awful. I just want to go home. And I stayed. I stayed in that relationship for actually another almost two years. And there were good parts of that relationship. There were many, many loving parts of that relationship. And there were also things that he was struggling with. But I asked him, where is this coming from? And he said, this was the really devastating part. He said, when my mom first met you a couple days ago, she told me that she thought you'd be skinnier. And let me tell you, the fun thing about how brains work is that I can sit here and say to you and fully believe it that that none of that was about me. None of that was about me. None of that's true. That's not how I

feel. And yet that still fucks with me to this day. And in addition, I don't weigh myself anymore. If I had to guess, I am at least 50 pounds heavier than I was when he told me I needed to lose some weight. So like, imagine what he'd think now. And so that was the first moment, honestly, and I was lucky it happened actually so late. But for me, that was the first moment where I thought maybe I need to hate my body. And again, fully, I fully knew that it was crazy and that I didn't want to feel this way. And yet somebody who I loved and again, who I wanted to desire me and who I felt safe with had just then said this thing about me and about my body.

But really, the adult in the room, which was his mother, had implanted the idea to him and then he had passed it along to me. So I'm, um, fucking nuts, fucking crazy. So there is, you know, some version of that, that gets a little, a little bit triggered when I talk to random people on the internet and they tell me I have, you know, the McDonald's comment, which is another comment on that video, which is like, Oh, your millions of dollars all got spent at McDonald's. It was not so much the comments that, you know, are made

online. It was a comment from somebody I loved and trusted that I think was the most devastating thing for me. Yeah. First of all, I'm so sorry that you had to hear that. I'm sorry, someone that you loved and trusted said that to you. Yeah. And I can only imagine how that would set you off on a negative thought spiral. Where are you now with your body when you do see comments like the one I read or the McDonald's comment? Are you able to kind of fully pull yourself out of it? Or do you find yourself spiraling back into negative thought patterns? I don't think those those comments are not the ones that really trigger me. I have my own relationship with my body and my own struggles there. I've only just started to realize probably in the

past six months to a year that I have chronic pain and that my body is in pain a lot and how that has shaped my relationship to it. And that I have very, very much put my physical health on hold so I could grow a business and write a book and launch it. And so actually this year, my goal is to not get my body back because that's so fitness influencer bullshit. But just to be in a more consistent routine with how I'm taking care of myself, what I'm eating. I've been traveling so much. As anybody who travels for work knows, one, somebody who has chronic pain, an airplane seat is the worst place to be.

And then you're not cooking for yourself. You're eating out a lot. And again, if I'm going to Atlanta for a day, am I going to eat a salad in Atlanta? No, I'm going to eat some fucking fried chicken and Southern food. So I think that that's part of it too. As you should. As I should. So I think my relationship with my body is not really impacted by the trolls, but it's a constant back and forth.

There's just this belief in society that unless you look a certain way, you are not deserving of love or you're not deserving of respect. And then the funny thing is, it's like, you realize, it's kind of like the Barbie monologue. At a certain point as women, like, you're never enough. Like, you're either too fat or you're too skinny or you're too made up or you don't have enough

makeup on. And so it's like, you just have to be okay with you at the end of the day. Like, you know, embroider it on a throw pillow. But truly like the only person I need to answer to about my own health and about my own relationship with myself is myself. And it's definitely not the trolls on the internet. And you know, you have so many amazing insights for young women. Obviously you have the financial stuff, but I do feel like just as a human with a lot

of the stories you tell like this one, which is the furthest thing from being about money, but is really just about loving yourself and coming into yourself. Do you ever find yourself sort of wanting to migrate away from the money and to sort of just become a lifestyle personality? Funny you say that, Lucy. I don't think I ever want to do that, but actually the next book I plan on writing is a book about confidence for women. And it's not just about money confidence. But that's the funny thing is like other than financial questions, the number one question I get is how are you so confident, which is very sweet and kind. And when it comes to my own journey to my own confidence, like it is financial

confidence, it's career confidence, it's confidence in a relationship. And I think a huge part of why I'm so confident is because I don't have to financially put up with any bullshit like from anybody. I don't have to put up with any bullshit from anybody because I can pay my way out. Like client mistreats us, I don't have to work with them anymore. I go out on a date with a boy and 10 minutes in it's awful. I can throw a card down on a table and I can leave.

Like there is so much flexibility when women have more money and you show up different for yourself, you show up different in your relationships, you show up different in your career. And so I don't think a full pivot is planned. But I think it is a natural extension of our brand and what we discussed at her first 100K to talk about, like, just confidence in general. Like, how do you show up as the fullest best version of yourself? And money is one of the ways you can start to do that. I love that. I'm excited for your confidence book. On that note, I know we never really got into it. You were saying that the book industry and the publishing space is not where the money is. Can you share with us if you're comfortable when you got your book deal for Financial Feminist. Was that independently published or was there a publisher?

It was a publisher. I worked through HarperCollins. Are you comfortable sharing? Are you allowed to share what the advance was for the book? I would love to share. I am legally not allowed to. There's confidentiality agreements as part of that. I believe I could go check my contract, but I really don't want to risk it. So yeah, I cannot discuss publicly how much I was compensated for that book, but it is way less than you think. Let's put it that way. And now on the back end of it, are you allowed to share it all about becoming a New York Times bestseller? Is that lucrative? Is that helpful? So again, fun thing about New York Times, we could spend a whole episode just talking

about the publishing and how you market a book. New York Times bestseller, this is actually the same question my mom asked me. She calls me like four days after it happens and she goes, so what now? Like, what does that get you? And I'm like, not really anything. Like, okay, so what it does get you. One, I get to say I'm a New York Times bestselling author for the rest of my fucking life. And that's amazing. And that's one of the things. It is a resume point. Right. That's one of the things even beyond my resume that I've wanted. I wanted that very badly. And that's a whole other conversation about like how I was going to emotionally

cope if I didn't get into New York Times. So yeah, it's just like I get to say that for the rest of my life and I get to know that that's something I did. Second thing is like it does help in theory with sales as you, you know, you get to put it on your Amazon profile and you get the sticker on your book. So in theory, it does help with like the notoriety of the book. And also, again, in theory, it helps you like book more things past the book. So like speaking engagements, it'll definitely help with your next book deal because it proves that you know, you can sell a

book beyond that. You don't get paid by the New York Times or something. You don't get anything concrete. It's not like they send you a check. It's not like there's a secret society of New York Times bestselling authors that you get inducted into that meets by monthly. Nothing really happens. It's a sticker.

It's a fun appellate. It in theory sets you up. It's kind of like the Forbes 30 under 30, which I also was lucky enough to receive. It's like, cool. That's it. It's like, that was fun. That was a cool little like vanity metric.

It's not much past that. Well, I love it. You got the talking point. You get to put it in your Instagram bio, to be exactly hopefully a reason why your next advance is even bigger than the first. So kudos to you for that. That's an amazing, amazing life milestone. Thank you. You mentioned briefly a partner now. Are you currently in a relationship? I am. That's very exciting. I didn't know that. It is very exciting. We have not talked about it. That was a decision that I made now. My previous partner, I dated in 2020

and I was talking about that relationship publicly. And then when that ended, I've talked about it a little bit. It was the most devastating period of my entire life. It was like opening up a wound every time someone would message me and be like, where is he? And so for many, many reasons, yeah, I decided to say I'm in a relationship, but give very, very little follow up about who this person is or what they're about. And that's something that was agreed upon by my partner and I, you know, when I met them and started realizing like, okay, I'm going to stop casually dating and we're

going to do this thing. We're not going to discuss it publicly. On the note of relationships, obviously that leads to sex. So for everyone who just so everyone knows when I emailed Tory about this podcast, I said, here's our pillars, we're going to talk about money, mental health, and sex. And I got a reply back that Tory did not want to talk about sex, to which I said, okay, totally acceptable. So now here's your time on the show. I would love to hear why sex is a major boundary for you on the internet.

I just turned beet red if you're watching on YouTube or from releasing this clip. I'm like beet red, which I should be. We've like partnered with like sex toy companies on social media. Like it's more a couple of things. One is that, um, honestly, like I think part of it, if I had to psychoanalyze, I went to Catholic school, I signed a chastity card in high school. TLDR, I've broken it. That shouldn't be shocking to anybody. But like, I think that there is prob, I've broken it. That shouldn't be shocking

to anybody. But I think that there is, I know that there's some leftover Catholic guilt and shame. I know there is. Probably the biggest reason is that there are certain parts of my life that I have committed to keeping private because honestly, the best way to figure out you have a boundary is you've accidentally crossed it and then realized, oh shit, that didn't feel right. And that was, you know, to me talking about specific people, dating specific people, a relationship and realizing like, oh, this doesn't feel good anymore. And people are really, weirdly intrusive. And so I just decided that anything in regards to, you know, my relationship with somebody else I was going to keep private.

Of course, we know that sex doesn't have to be with one person or doesn't have to be, you know, it can be a solo activity or with many people if you if that's what you're into. But just for me, that felt like something that I'm just it's a private thing for me. And there's also again with women, I think there's a whole shitload of judgment on top of it. I'm already talking about like the most controversial topic. I figure I'm pissing enough people off. I'm having enough transparent conversations for me. The conversation you could view it that way or you could view it as what's just to all of them. Sure, sure, sure. I think that, yeah, I again, if I had to cycle analyze myself, I think it's definitely, you know, I realize it's taboo and that the

taboo shouldn't be there and yet I still feel. And that's my reality. And so this is a list of a couple things that I just have, I have decided to not discuss publicly and that feel like, you know, this is, this is a personal thing either for me or, you know, between me and somebody else. Love it. And I appreciate that. Love it. And I appreciate that. Do you envision having a family in the future? I don't know. That's my honest answer. Um, I don't think I want children, but, um, my current partner thinks he wants children.

And that's a conversation that we continue to have. We both agree now that we don't want children right now. So we're in agreement for now, but we are both open to the possibility of no children or children. I become pretty disenchanted every time one of my friends talks about how difficult motherhood is. I've joked many times before that if I could be a dad, I would do that tomorrow. But biologically, I cannot be a

father, at least with my gender identity, I would be a mother, I would have to be a mother. And so yeah, if I could be a dad, I'd do that in a second. But the expectation around motherhood, the identity around motherhood, this is something I would love to talk to you about too, is like, I feel like once you become a mom, that's your entire identity to the world. And that would just be really difficult for me to feel like the world that that's all I'm good for, for the world anymore. And also just the pressure for the emotional labor on women, even in an equitable partnership is just crazy. And so yeah, it's something that I'm open to. I've also just

realized in my life in general is that every time I say I'm definitely not going to do something, I, you know, you will, you grow and change as a human being. Doesn't mean like my values have changed, but I think that resolute opinions of like, I will never do this or this is something I will always do. I've changed my mind about things that I never thought I'd change my mind about. So who knows? So many thoughts on this topic and we could obviously dive into it for hours. You know, one thing I will say is when I went into motherhood, I remember feeling so resolutely that I will not let motherhood

consume me. I will not become a mommy blogger. This will not become my personality. And I remember having that thought so strongly, yet it almost being unavoidable, specifically from the start of pregnancy and then even more specifically into postpartum. It takes a really long damn time to disentangle who you actually are as a person

from once you become a mom. And even for me, even just in the pregnancy time period, it consumed me in a way that I did not anticipate that it would. I think part of it was, you know, during my first pregnancy, I felt very excited to get pregnant that I almost dove into everything about pregnancy, probably in a deeper way than many pregnant people do. Every book I was reading was about pregnancy. Every podcast I was listening to was about pregnancy. Every piece of content on my For You page and Explore page became about babies and it just kind of consumed me in a way that it was not consuming my partner during my

pregnancy. Then going into postpartum, similarly, especially since I was nursing my first baby for nine months, I was really just sucked into this world that now going into, I don't know if I told you I'm pregnant, but by the time this episode comes out, it will be, it will be out there. But I am pregnant with- You kept saying first baby and I was like, wait, hold on. I am currently pregnant with a second. Yay. Congratulations.

Thank you. And I actually was now going into this second pregnancy. It's less that I was surprised about this, but it was more of it being a conscious decision going into this pregnancy that I refused to let it take over my thoughts, which is really hard because it's taking over your body and your body controls your thoughts. But I just remember saying, I won't let it. And I'm gonna work as hard as I possibly can to not let the postpartum period consume me as much as it did the first time.

Although it's really fucking hard once you get there. That is what's happening in your life. And there's really nothing else to talk about, especially being a content creator. People want you to show up and just talk about the old stuff you talked about. And you don't have the mental space to even be thinking about things that are not related to parenting. So it is difficult and I respect that and appreciate you making that decision now. But yes, as you said, decisions can always change. Yeah. And I just know I don't want kids now, because I'm not in the season of my life to even consider that. So, you know, it's hard to say, you know, I definitely won't have kids in five years. Like, my life's going

to be different in five years. And I appreciate you sharing all of that. And yeah, it's just, it's so interesting. Again, whole other series of podcast episodes about the demands of motherhood, both physical and emotional and mental and all of that. At this point, I don't know if I'll ever have it in me or ever want it. At this point, I definitely don't. Last question on the note of you having a new partner. I'm curious how someone who has such financial stability goes into the process of finding

a partner and how open you are upfront, how important your partner's finances are for you to even consider them, if at all. And is going into a relationship with someone who does not have financial stability an absolute non-starter for you? The fucking coolest part about dating as a rich woman is that you make more than 99% of the men you're going to go on dates with. And it's so fucking fun. And to our point about freedom earlier, any man I'm ever with again is never going to have to question, is she only here because she can't leave? Like, is she only here because she needs my money? The answer's never going to be yes, which I think

actually is a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing that you know I'm in a relationship with you because I love you and because I want to be here. My current partner and I literally talked about money probably second or third date. Um, even before I've told the story in another show before, but one of the earliest green flags for him, we were on our first date and the check came and you know, he knows what I do. He's Googled me. It's, it's not difficult to find out, you know, a lot of more information than you would have on somebody with an average Google, especially financially. And, um, he kind of like looked at the check and then he looked up at me. And I just went, what's up? And he goes, I would really like to pay, but I don't want to offend you.

It was just the most like beautiful little chef's kiss, which is like, here's my intention. But like, basically, I know you're a feminist and I don't want this to be a thing. And so he's like, you know, kind of sheepishly like I would like to pay if that's okay. But I don't, I don't want to offend you. And I was like, Oh, you can pay. That's so sweet. Yes, go for it. It was like, I don't mind. Yeah, truly. I'm like, but I love that he asked, like, you know, it's just, it's so, it was so lovely. And that for me was a couple green flags of one, like, he's not going to be afraid to talk about something uncomfortable. Two, he's not afraid to be vulnerable. Yeah, we've

had, we've had so many conversations. If you're going to be friends with me, we're going to talk about money. If you're going to date me, like it's a requirement. We're going to talk about money. We both know how much each other has. We both know how much each other makes. We both know how much each other pays in rent. Like we are very financially transparent. And again, that was kind of a requirement of dating somebody. In terms of like, would I date somebody who is not as financially stable as me? Again, 99% of people aren't. So I am not really looking to like, you know, date somebody who has more money than me.

That's not a requirement. The person that I'm with without revealing his career makes a fraction of what I make, like makes very, very little compared to what I make. I think that one of the things that I do love is that he is a really smart saver. He doesn't make a lot, but has managed to max out his Roth IRA every year. So he has the good financial habits. That is something that I look for. It's not necessarily like if I was still actively dating, like a hard no. But I do remember going out on a date with somebody who's like, oh yeah, I just pour everything on a credit card and it doesn't matter if I can afford it or not. And I was like, oh no, big red flag. You said that a major perk of dating as a rich

woman is that the partner knows that you're not there for their money. I know what you're going to ask me. Go ahead. Go ahead. How do you know that your partner is not going to stay with you for money? Is that where you're going? Well listen, I do want to know that actually. Where I was going though was more so, I just want to hear about how that feels showing up to a date as someone who's so financially secure. Do you feel like showing up and having the finances you have gives you this extra layer of confidence and self-worth that you maybe didn't have before? A thousand percent, a million percent. There have been so many instances. I was dating

casually for about two years and I lovingly call it my ho phase where like, you know, I had like men on every continent texting me and it was so great. It was so fun. But there was a good ho phase. It truly was. It was if anybody gets the chance to do it once in their life, please do it. I missed my window. I would have had to be 16. I was gonna say I didn't do it. I was gonna say Lucy both missed out and also has what all of us dream, which is a stable steady partnership for her entire life. So, no, for me, it was, you know, when I was casually dating and, you know, going on a lot of dates, there's just something powerful whether it's dating or your career or running a business where again, you're

not financially dependent on anybody and you don't have to stay in a situation just because you're afraid of leaving financially. So that's one massive thing is like, I am looking for somebody who I like and who I respect and who I can form an actual partnership with. I'm not looking for a benefactor basically, or at least somebody to provide me security. The second thing is I can leave that date whenever I want. And this has happened before. I actually have paid for way more dates than I think people would expect me to have paid.

I'm actually, if I want a second date with you, I will actually, I'm more likely to let you pay. Because there's something for me that's powerful about, no, I'm done, I'm willing you pay. Because there's something for me that's powerful about, no, I'm done, I'm willing to pay. I'm just, I'm not going to have you have any expectations of me. And it's just like, the case closed, it's over, it's done. As opposed to like, you know, letting you pay or going Dutch on something allows me to be a little bit more like, Oh no, like I want to see where this goes. I want to keep going. So there's been many times where at the end of the date,

I just pull up my credit card and they're like, Oh, and I'm like, yep, I've got it. Nice to meet you. Hope you have a great life. And like, have a nice life. Right. My credit card's, my credit card's going down. And I do, I just, I love fucking with men sometimes too. Like there's something is just so powerful about like, I just, I love fucking with men sometimes too. Like there's something that's just so powerful about like, you know, throwing down my credit card that is metal and hearing it like clang on it and just kind of their look. And I just, I love that too. So yeah, it, there's something so powerful about that. And, um,

that's my whole mission with her first 100 K is like, you show up different in every aspect of your life when you are financially stable because you don't have to put up with bullshit. You don't have to put up bullshit from anybody, not a man, not a boss, not a client, not your parents. There's something so freeing about that. And that's the feeling I want for every single woman on this planet. I would love the answer to that question that you brought up of how you know a partner is not taking advantage of you when you are

so vocal about being a multimillionaire. Yeah, I didn't mean to cut you off. I was sure that's where you were going. And of course, it wasn't, which I love. Subverting my expectations. A couple of things. One, it is a kind of a fear of mine, I'm not going to lie. And it's something I sometimes vocalize with my partner of like, you know, I very much love myself and feel very secure in myself. And I also am a little validation whore and want validation all the time. And so there's times where I'm just like, I know you love me, but can you tell me you love me, please? And can you tell me I'm pretty? And like, can you tell me that you're

here because you like me and not just because you know how much money I have roughly? You know, that is something that I think, you know, is sometimes in the back of my mind in the conversations about money. This is the more practical answer is I've been very clear with him that if we get married, we're signed in a prenup. Like we are having a conversation. That was going to be my last question. I'm so glad you brought that up. We are having a conversation. Now I know everybody listening just heard prenup and they're like, Oh, so you think you're getting divorced. Here's the thing about prenups that I need to tell you. I'm putting my financial educator hat back on.

Every single person that gets married has a prenup. If you are married right now, you have a prenup. Yes, you do. And it was the state. Wherever you got married, Washington state, New York, California, you have actually signed a prenup. As part of your marriage license, you have said, this is how my money is going to get distributed if we are to separate because

every state has their own laws. So if you don't like the state telling you what you're going to do in your own relationship, and I know that I don't, I want to be able to make choices with my partner, you need to create your own prenup. Now prenups are not just for wealthy people. They're not just for trust fund babies. They're not just for Hugh Hefner. Like they're for regular people just dictating exactly what should happen.

Now we all don't want to believe we're going to get divorced, right? We hope we live happily ever after forever and ever, and that it's never going to, you know, you're never going to separate with that person. However, you're going into to separate with that person. However, you're going into a business relationship with somebody. Yes, a marriage is hopefully about love. It's, but the reason we, you know, plenty of people don't get married, it's not a business contract until it's a marriage contract. It is a business agreement. It is a financial agreement. And I know if I

was going into business with somebody and I didn't have a contract that I had approved, that's a bad way of doing business. So when it comes to you entering into any sort of relationship, romantic legal relationship, you need to dictate what's going to happen. So yes, very early on, there was a conversation of, no, we're going to have, we're, we're going to be signing a prenup that works for both of us, and we're going to navigate that should this happen. Do you know off the top of your head if that standard state, quote, prenup that's built into each marriage is just a standard 50-50 split of assets? So it depends on the state. I'm in Washington state, and for example, it is a 50-50 split. So, you know, unless you dictate

otherwise, it will be split right down the middle. And again, this can be about debt too. Like say you come into the marriage with student loans. Like are both of you responsible for paying off that debt? Is one of you responsible for paying off that debt? If, you know, pass just your own money, if, you know, you get an inheritance, how does that inheritance get split? So again, prenup, I think is this thing that, yeah, you get an inheritance, how does that inheritance get split? So again, prenup, I think is this thing that yeah, we associate with like, you know, 82 year old men marrying 25 year old women. And it's like, it's so much deeper than that. And it's, it's one of the best things that you can do for a financially equitable relationship.

And you notice I didn't say equal, I said equitable. And that equity looks like whatever it looks like for you and your partner. But yeah, it depends on the state. If you don't know the current quote unquote prenup you have, good thing to look into it. It is so interesting because I wonder if it's the media. For me, my perception of a prenup came from the movie Liar Liar. And them talking about getting a prenuptial agreement and maybe not having one. You know, it was always something in my mind that I thought of as older wealthy men marrying younger women and wanting to protect their money or even older women marrying younger men, just whoever had more money dictating that we're signing this. And it's just such

an interesting conversation that the prenup conversation can be totally rebranded in society and modernized based on what it really is about and it not necessarily having to be this negative thing about someone trying to hide their money from the partner. And it really, I know this is like, financial expert talking, so you're gonna roll your eyes, but it's like, it's not really about money actually. It's about like you making sure that both of you feel like you're entering this partnership with all of your ducks in a row. And like, just like you would talk to your partner seemingly

before you get married, do we want kids or not? Right? Or, you know, what happens? Where are we going to live? How are we going to work? What's going to happen there? Like, it's just another part of that conversation. And you know, for someone like me who hasn't signed a prenup in my marriage, I guess there's always time for a post-nup. There is post-nups. They're not as powerful as prenups, but they're way better than having nothing at all. Let me ask one more question on this note. Because we don't have any agreement in place,

we truly view everything that the other is doing as beneficial to us. And it's all helping our family and everything's going into, quote, one place. We have multiple accounts, but it's all everyone's. When I'm going to pay off a credit card. All of our accounts are linked on the account and I can pay off my credit card with my husband's checking account if there's more cash sitting in that at the moment. And it's just never a thought about who's putting the credit card down for dinner. My husband does all of my businesses investing. He goes into my business account, takes out a set amount every month and invests it for me since he knows more about investing and feels more passionately about that.

And I just wonder when you do have an agreement in place, maybe you don't have the answer to this because you're not married yet, but if you were in a marriage where prenup was signed, how do you really feel like you guys are a team and like you really, everything's working for one common good versus you feeling like, oh, that's going into my pot and yours is going into your pot. Yeah. Two things. I'm not a lawyer and I'm also not married. So it's going to depend, but the truly personal finances, personal, it depends on the relationship. Pre-nups do not have to be everything I enter into this marriage with, I get at the end of the day,

or I get a per, you know, this percentage of the household income, it doesn't have to be that. You get to figure that out what it looks like for you. I will say this is one of my like hard and fast, I always say personal finance is personal, but one of the only hard and fast rules I have is that even if you're combining the majority of your money, each person in a partnership should at least have

some of their own money. Now, why do I say this? A couple of things. One, let's just talk about worst case scenario here, right? And I'm not just talking, you know, I don't want to target Michael, but like, let's talk about like the amount of emails we get every single week from women who say, I cannot financially leave because he is abusing me. Financial abuse happens in 99% of abusive relationships. So that's the most dramatic part of it. But the more minor part is like, maybe I just don't want to be in this relationship anymore. Like I love this person, but this isn't for me

anymore. And you need some sort of money in order to sustain yourself. The more happy version of this is that, you know, we want somebody to be able to purchase things that they love without having to consult the other person. My parents have almost completely combined their finances, but they have what they call their own fun money. My mom spends it on scrapbooking. My dad spends it on pickleball, like, but they don't have to counsel each other. They don't have to be like, Hey, I'm about to go buy a new pickleball racket. And that's this much money. Like that's their own fun money. And I think that really helps the relationship. What you're talking about really is like, how do I manage the day-to-day finances versus like what a prenup is, which is like, how do we determine the separation of assets should this relationship end? It's like a

version of that, but it's slightly different. And truly every couple is going to have their own version of this. Is the money I brought in from this inheritance when my uncle died, both of our money, or is it just my money is my student loans, your student loans, or is that my responsibility when we purchase a vehicle? Is it in both of our names? And if so, how does that work? So there's, there's so many things to talk about, but I think it's about first having the conversation and being brave enough to even talk about it. We've seen from studies that money is

the number one thing that causes marriages to end. So let's start talking about money. Absolutely. And I mean, it is shocking just how many couples have never spoken about money until after they're married or they're just about to get married and stuff comes out. So I mean, I listened to a lot of finance podcasts as well, and I am constantly shocked, specifically the podcasts that bring on real people who open up about their relationships and how money is a part of that.

I am shocked by how little people are talking. So, Tori, you are doing the Lord's work, teaching people how to talk about money, inspiring people to talk about it. I have loved following you. You've been such an inspiration. The internet needs more Tories. So can you tell people if they're not following you already, where can they find you?

What are you working on now? Feel free to plug anything you're excited about. Lucie, this is the coolest fucking show. Thanks for having me. I am at herfirsthundredk on all the socials, H-E-R-F-I-R-S-T-1-0-0-K, herfirsthundredk.com as well. My book, Financial Feminist, as well as my podcast, Financial Feminist, are wherever you get your books

and wherever you listen to podcasts, and we would love to have you. Thank you so much for coming on. This was enlightening, and the amount of epic sound bites you gave me, I could not thank you enough. Truly the compliment that my little validation heart needed. I love the sound bites.

So thank you. Thank you to Lucy for having me on her show. We're excited to have her eventually as a guest too. And you can find the Real Stuff podcast wherever you're listening right now to podcasts. Thank you so much for being here. As always, Financial Feminists, and we'll talk to you soon. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields, associate producer, Tamesha

Grant, researched by Ariel Johnson, audio and video engineering by Alyssa Medcalf, marketing and operations by Karina Patel, Amanda LeFeu, Elizabeth McCumber, Masha Bakhnakeva, Taylor Cho, Kailyn Sprinkle, Sasha Bonar, Claire Karonen, Darrell Ann Ingman, and Janelle Reisner, Promotional Graphics by Mary Stratton, Photography by Sarah Wolf, and Theme Music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100k team and community for supporting this show. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests, and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com. you