Financial Feminist - 160. Solo Travel, Expat Life, and Doing Sh*t That Scares You with Kacie Rose Burns

Episode Date: June 4, 2024

In this captivating episode of the Financial Feminist podcast, Tori Dunlap welcomes the inspiring travel content creator and author, Kacie Rose Burns. Join us as Kacie shares her incredible journey from being a professional performer in New York to becoming an expat living in Florence, Italy. Her story is a testament to the transformative power of solo travel and embracing the unknown. Kacie’s experiences highlight the unique challenges and immense rewards of moving abroad, navigating cultural differences, and finding financial independence. If you've ever dreamed of living overseas or simply want to take back the power in your own life, this episode is a must-listen. Tori and Kacie delve into the nitty-gritty details of expat life, including the financial preparations needed to make such a significant move, the emotional rollercoaster of homesickness, and the resilience required to handle online hate as a public figure. Kacie also gives us a sneak peek into her new book, "You Deserve Good Gelato," which encourages readers to travel the world, embrace failure, and conquer their fears. Don't miss out on this enlightening conversation that promises to inspire and motivate you to step out of your comfort zone and explore the world with confidence. Read transcripts, learn more about our guests and sponsors, and get more resources at https://herfirst100k.com/financial-feminist-show-notes/160-navigating-solo-travel-ex-pat-life-and-culture-shocks-with-kacie-rose-burns/.  Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz. Kacie’s website: Kacie Rose Travel Kacie’s book: You Deserve Good Gelato Special thanks to our sponsors: Thrive Causemetics Get an exclusive 10% off your first order at thrivecausemetics.com/FFPOD Masterclass Get an extra 15% off any annual membership at masterclass.com/FFPOD. Squarespace Go to www.squarespace.com/FFPOD to save 10% off your first website or domain purchase. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You can simultaneously mourn your old life while also embracing your new one. They can coexist healthily with each other. It's not a one or the other situation, and it shouldn't be a one or the other situation. All the emotions, they coexist, and they coincide with each other, and that's how they are able to adapt and grow and change. I have so many moments where I am three years living here now, right? And I get a lot of messages where people are like, when does it get easier? Like when does the homesickness go away? And I'm like, I don't think it ever will go away. Hello Financial Feminists. Welcome to the show. My name is Tori. I'm so excited you're here. Thank you for being here. Thank you for listening to this show. We put a lot of hard work and time and it's not just me, but our entire team into this

show so we appreciate your support of it. If you're an oldie, but a goodie, welcome back. And if you are new, hi, my name is Tori. I run her first 100K, which is a money and career platform for women. I believe I was put on this earth to fight for your financial rights. And on Financial Feminist, we talk about how money affects women differently. And it's the number one money podcast for women in the world, which is fucking cool and amazing. A couple housekeeping, you can subscribe if you like the show and you don't want to miss an episode.

We also have over 150 episodes, literally covering every topic you could think of from infertility to sex work to Roth IRAs to paying off student loans and everything in between. So please go back and listen to an episode. And if you have a question about money that you would like me to answer, you can drop a voicemail and a little voicemail URL down below and we might use it for an upcoming episode. Okay. Today's episode. First of all, we have one of the biggest announcements on this show that we've ever had at the beginning and I'm not going to spoil it. No, I'm going to spoil it. She got engaged. My friend Casey, who was on the show today got engaged to her Italian boyfriend who she met on a solo trip one night at a

jazz club. That's all I'm going to say. We talk more about it. It's fucking cool. I did not know she literally got engaged that day. It was thrilling. It was so exciting. So we start off the episode with that and it just gets cooler from there. So Casey Rose Burns is a travel content creator and author living in Florence, Italy. After a life-changing solo trip and her own little under the Tuscan sun moment, she made the official move to Italy in January, 2021. Through positivity, authenticity, and humor, she began sharing culture shocks, travel tips, and life abroad across her social media, where her following quickly grew to a community of over 1.5 million people.

From explaining why you won't find pepperoni pizza and lattes in Italy, to hosting guided group tours and publishing her new book, You Deserve Good Gelato, which is out now, Casey's goal is to encourage and help her community travel abroad by showing them the beauty of cultural differences, all the while reminding them that they are strong, deserving, and so much more capable than they think they are. We talk about a lot in this episode. It's one of the longest episodes I think we've done in a really long time because we just kept talking. It was like two friends catching up. We talk about expat life, all the nuances, including homesickness and then feeling guilty that you're homesick and the financial implications of moving abroad, as well as some culture shocks. If you've ever thought about living in a country

that is not your own, listen to this episode. We also get really granular about how much it can cost to get a visa, even if you're living there temporarily, why it's so incredibly important to travel for women and if you can to travel by yourself. And we talk about how to do that. And we also just get really vulnerable about our struggles with being public facing people, about being content creators, about posting online, and having a lot of our lives opened up to people, and how the world of the internet might be doing actually more harm than good.

So without further ado, this is an incredible conversation that will foster your love of travel. And let's go ahead and get into it. But first, a word from our sponsors. This episode of Financial Feminist is sponsored by Thrive Cosmetics, Squarespace, and Masterclass. Refresh your everyday look with foolproof vegan products made with clean skin loving ingredients. Get an exclusive 10% off your first order at thrivecosmetics.com slash FFpod.

Build a beautiful website to get your message out into the world with Squarespace. Go to Squarespace.com slash FFpod to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Masterclass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200 of the world's best. Get an extra 15% off any annual membership at masterclass.com slash FFpod. extra 15% off any annual membership at masterclass.com. Looking for a change of scenery? Come on over. Let us give you the tour. Grab a paddle and explore. Hit the trails and go. When you're ready, kick back and call it a night.

New Brunswick, always inviting. Visit tourismnewbrunswick.ca. Okay, so before we hit record, and I wish we would have hit record sooner, Kasey put her hand up and we have got a glittering rock on this finger. I am so thrilled for you. Okay. for you. Okay. Thank you. I... I know I really sprung that on you.

I was like, look. Bam, bitch, look. No, that's so, okay. We'll get into the meet cute. And when you realize that she now engaged to a person she met on a solo trip to Italy, who's also Italian, you're gonna really love it. So, okay, proposal story. You have to tell me. I'm so excited for you.

Oh my God. No, okay. So, we just, we were up north on a trip. We went to Lake Como for a couple of days. And it's so funny, Troy, because I woke up this morning feeling so sick, so sick. Pauline is in the air feeling so sick And we went by motorcycle, right? And so we had to leave early in the morning to get back down to Florence It's like a three and a half hour drive something like that And Dario was like, you know, we waited a little bit longer because I was feeling good And he was like I really want to stop by the scenic spot to find my drone. Is that okay? and I was like, yeah, of course, let's. And so we drive up there and we get to the point

and it's like another 30 minute walk uphill. We didn't know. It was a 30 minute walk to get to the spot. And he was like, you can't, like, there's no way. And I was like, ah, there's no way I can't. I'm just like, I need to stay on ground. And so he drives a little bit further and we find like this little secluded area that still has like a scenic overlook. There was a horse, you know, and he gets off his drone and he starts flying it around and five minutes later, he came over to me and he started talking and I was like, he's stockative. And then I looked kind of looked over and I saw the drone was like pointed toward us

and I looked back and yeah, and that's it. Did you black out? Do you remember anything he said? A little bit, a mixture of both. I blacked out a little bit and I remember some things, but at that moment it was just like, oh my God, you know, cause like I knew it was coming, but I didn't know in that moment it was coming.

Yes. That's it. I'm so excited. It feels weird. I'm like, I keep like. I'm so excited. It feels weird. I'm like, I keep like I'm looking around like, oh, it's weird. My hand's a little heavier. Oh, my God. I'm so happy for you.

Thanks. Thanks. I don't even know. OK, so I guess we had all we have all these, you know, questions like where you want to go all of this. But like, I feel like we have to start with like, I think so of this and you know we travel regardless of whether we're gonna meet a hot Italian man or not but like you so if we talk about fucking I'm just so funny because like I was I was like I don't want any people around I was like I want it to be me and you and there to be nobody yeah yeah I don't want it to be this public, I want it to be me and you. And there to be nobody. Yep. Yep. I don't want it to be this public display. I want it to be an actual like thing

I get to answer without feeling any sort of pressure. Yeah. Exactly. And I remember, I do remember first thing he said, he was like, he's like, I hope it's okay. There's a horse here. Cause I had wanted nobody. I was like, I hope it's okay that there's a horse. And you're like, hey, that would have been a better answer. Do you want to go back and try it again? You can answer. Okay. So I'm just so thrilled for you.

I'm so excited for you for those people who are listening, who don't know our friend just got engaged. So that's so exciting. And she got engaged engaged like I said before to a lovely Italian man that you met on a solo trip to Italy so I know you've told the story a thousand times on Instagram but I feel like if we're leading with engagement we gotta go back so talk to me about where you were at what your life was like what was going on when you were like fuck it I'm going to Italy. Yeah no I was I was working as a performer in New York. I was professional

performer. So I would travel around the country, get hired out to dance and things like that. And like, if you know anything about an industry, it's a hard fucking industry to be in. It is not easy. It's a lot of rejection. It's a lot of stress. And I was at a point where I was, I was so anxious. I was having frequent anxiety attacks, like if not every day, every other day, like frequently. And I was feeling just very stuck and very lost and just like, I don't really know, just stuck. You know that feeling of just like undescribable stuck. And I'd always like wanted to go to Italy. I don't know why I'm only 2% Italian, like

that can't explain why, but I'd always wanted to go to Italy. I was waiting and waiting and waiting for somebody to go with. I kept saying when I have somebody to go to Italy. I don't know why I'm only 2% Italian, like that can't explain why, but I'd always wanted to go to Italy. I was waiting and waiting and waiting for somebody to go with. I kept saying when I have somebody to go with, when I have a friend or a boyfriend or something like that, then I'll go. And I don't know if it was like divine intervention or like my subconscious finally entering the chat,

but like it really was just this smack in the head moment lying in bed awake at like 2 a.m. And it was like, why don't you just go? And so I was like, yeah, why don't I just go? I looked up flights the next morning, or like in that moment I looked up flights. A one-way flight into Venice I found for like $200. In my mind, I had always thought that it was like $2,000.

And I was like, 200, I was like, I can swing 200. I can work for the next eight months and figure out a way to get this flight. And yes, I booked it and then ended up fast forward doing this whole solo trip. I did Venice, Florence and Rome. And then after Rome, I went to Paris because again, that flight was stupidly cheap and why not? But on my first day in Florence is when I met Dario. I went to a jazz club, cool spot underground, it's called Jazz Club Fiorenzo. Went down there, he was there. Next thing I know, we're talking all

night and here we are six years later. Yeah, yeah. We did long distance for a year. And then he came to live with me in New York for a year. And we moved back in January, 2021. I'm just saying. Oh my God, friend, I love you. I'm so excited, friend. And again, we're so excited, right? And this podcast is very like, you know, of course, feminist and independence. And like, it's just this happy accident of meeting the love of your life.

But I think that what I want to, like, every single woman, there's so many messages I get and I know you get so many, oh, it's gonna make me like really cry. There's just so many women who are waiting. Like there's so many women. I know usually I have my like little cry moment like a half hour in but we're here already. Like, there's so many women who listen we're here. They wait, they wait and they go, yeah, okay, I'll wait for somebody to do this with or it's

not the right time or Yeah, I haven't researched but it's got to be so much money so I'm not going to do it and it's just like, look what happened. Like even if you haven't met him, I hadn't had that happen. Like there's so much you would have learned. Yeah. And that's like, that's like the biggest thing, right? Is like meeting Dario was a beautiful accident, but it was a beautiful added bonus. And I stand strong that like a romantic relationship is not at all necessary to have a fulfilling experience abroad. Not at all necessary. It's just a beautiful added bonus if it happens, right? But I totally agree with you about women waiting, right? And I think it's something that we're

taught from a very young age of not trusting our own intuition, not trusting our own gut, not trusting our own ability to do hard things, which is just bullshit. It's just bullshit. And being taught that the world is a big, bad, scary place that we should never explore instead of just approaching it with curious caution, right?

And it's sad, it sucks. And like, I'm so grateful that I had that experience and I know that you've had that experience too of just kind of that realization that life is passing you by and we can't waste it. We only have so much time on the planet, right? And we don't get a do-over. And I think coming to that realization is scary

but so necessary. Because you really start to be like, I really need to take advantage of my time here. So yeah, I totally get it. It makes me emotional when I think about it too. Because how many messages I get where women are so afraid. Yeah, and hesitant. And it goes further than just being afraid. It goes further and deeper to be like, not even just afraid, but doubting their own ability

to do hard things. And that's what sucks. Oh, they don't think themselves worthy of it. Like, they don't think themselves worthy of their own money and time. And yeah, and to your point about society, like, yes, there is safety concerns about traveling abroad, right? You have to be sometimes on guard, you have to make sure that you're safe. But I feel like that gets so overblown. And my not so conspiracy conspiracy theory is that so like women won't do it. Because when women travel for the first time

by themselves, you feel like the most powerful fucking badass because you're like, I did this with my own money. I got myself here. That train was delayed and I had to figure something out. You realize you can do anything. You start to realize that you are so capable of handling any unexpected hurdles that come your way. And more than that, you're capable of being your own best friend. You are your own best friend. And when you start to like love spending time with yourself, like that is such a powerful, powerful thing to realize that you are your own best company. And like you can do the hard things that are thrown at you completely on your own. You can absolutely. And like coming to that

realization is so incredible. And I just like, I think it's why we get along so well is just you also feel that way about women. It's just something that I wish more women would grab onto and realize. The early 2021, I wasn't doing very well mental health-wise. I took myself on a solo trip and I lived somewhere tropical for a full month and I lived by myself and I had the moment almost every single day where I thought to myself, you know, I was probably was 26 when I have a 27 and I remember thinking most women will never either get the chance or take the chance to do something like this or they do when they're 65 and retired and they don't, you know, they don't have children or that, you know, the adult

children have grown and they're left the house and like, that's the first opportunity that women take for themselves to be able to like actually have time by themselves to be able to rest, to be able to do that. And I remember feeling one, so grateful, but two, like so angry of just like this, this should be what every single woman, especially as early as possible in their 20s, in their 30s has to experience. And like it's the thing is, is that it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be all or nothing, right? It doesn't have to be automatically like a trip across the sea or like across the ocean. Like it doesn't have to be this massively long plane ride. Like start with the next city over, start with the next state over, then the next

neighboring country. Like you can start small and build up. But the important part is that you do it. And like to what you're saying, it's, you know, and it's listen, if, if you are 65 and you are at the point where this is something that you've never done and you want to do it, incredible incredible like pop-off. Yep, but it's just like I Wish that we taught women from a young age or I wish you know society in general Didn't put it in women's heads That they aren't capable of doing it because they are and like it's just

Yeah, or that you're gonna be lonely when you do it You're like, oh you're to be lonely when you do it. You're like, oh, you're gonna be lonely. And you got to, yeah. And the other thing is you got to do it with a partner. And I know you met my best friend Christine and like, you know, we take trips every year together and like, if you don't want to do it alone, you don't have to have a partner either. Like there's, there's people you can travel with.

There's people that you meet on trips. There's like, you literally host trips for women to go to Italy to meet other people. So like there's, Italy to meet other people. So like there's just other options. And I also, to your point earlier, like I don't want this, you know, this narrative of like, Oh my God, you have to do it with somebody or like you're lame or it's sad. You don't have anybody to go with. Like I'm in New York right now. My partner's literally flying here for the first time. He's never been to New York. I'm so excited to have him. And I'm also not going to lie, I was journaling last night. I'm like, you know, as much as

I'm excited to see him and play tour guide, like this is my city. I like being here by myself. I like listening to my music while I walk down the street. And so it's going to be a weird adjustment. So like, yeah, there's just so much flexibility with travel. You don't have to do it with somebody else. You definitely don't have to do it with a romantic partner. And these are all the lies we feed women. No, totally. And like, the thing is, is that if it's your first solo trip, or even if you're a seasoned solo traveler, like it's going to be lonely sometimes, like you will have moments of loneliness. And like, that's okay. It's okay, because we've been taught it's

like a primitive instinct, you know, to stick with the group to stick with the pact, right? Like that's a survival instinct that we don't need anymore thankfully, so but When you start to realize that again, you are your own best company It's just like creme de la creme, you know and you get over that loneliness Yeah, I totally get it most of my questions are about expat life and I want to transition there because Myself like many other people are like how do I get out of the United States? How do I stop living here? How do I get somewhere else?

And we'll do it in your intro, but like you've been living in Italy for how many years now? Are we at three, four? Three, three. Three, yeah, long time. So what was that turning point of like, yeah, I actually wanna be here full time. Like obviously Daria was part of that equation,

but like what was the difference between, okay, I'm going to either do the long distance or like split my time versus like, no, I'm actually ready to commit? Honestly, it COVID. COVID was their turning point for me. COVID was traumatic for a lot of reasons that are obvious and I don't need to go into. But there are also a lot of silver linings. And one of the silver linings for me was the realization when my industry was completely shut down because performance industry, people facing, no. And when it was completely shut down and I couldn't do it anymore is when I realized that maybe I wasn't happy as doing it as I thought that I was. Like I was seeing so many videos of friends of mine that were like,

I can't wait to go back to class and I miss auditions. And I was like, I don't. I don't want to go. I was like, that's probably something I should pay attention to if I'm relieved that I don't have to go do my job. And that was a really big wake-up call for me. My second big wake-up call when it came to Italy and traveling. And at that point, Italy was still accepting study visas to go study Italian.

And we were at a point where it was like, I think September of 2020. And I had been without performing and I was happier. My anxiety attacks stopped to slow down completely. And I was the one that suggested it. I said, why don't we try go living in Italy? First, we'll do a six-month trial basis. LOL. Here we are three years later.

But that was a really big turning point for me. It was just like, I realized that I wasn't happy doing what I was doing. And when I thought about, am I willing to be this way, to live like this, to have emotions surrounding what I'm doing in my life until the end of my life? Am I willing to do that? And it was no. It was a no. And kind of going back to what you were saying earlier is like, life is too short not to do anything that isn't a yes. Yeah. Well, and I obviously, you, like, and all the listeners know this, as I have a background in theater, that was the plan was I was going to pursue acting. And then

I graduated college and just realized, like, I didn't want the up and down volatility of that. And so I chose marketing instead. And something that I still deal with that I imagine, well, again, you and I have talked privately, but like, I imagine you feel as well is that, imagine, well, again, you and I have talked privately, but like I imagine you feel as well is that, especially with like theater performance, it's such a part of your identity. Like it is, I was the theater kid growing up. Like I was the girl who did theater. I was the girl who, you know, was in plays all of the time. Like I, you know, if I had a high school superlative, it would be like, you know, she was the actor. And I, it was really difficult for me when even thinking about it now, I haven't done

a show since college. Like a lot of people in my life now do not know that part of me, have never seen that part of me. And that's so bizarre. And I think it can be very, very difficult to one, fall out of love with the thing you've been in love with your entire life. But two, to decide maybe this isn't working and I'm not going to beat myself up for it and I'm going to try something else.

Yeah. Yeah. And like I had gotten to a point where I hated the industry so much that I started to hate the thing itself. The thing you loved. Yeah. You know, it's just, it can be so scary, right? To take that jump and be like, this is something that I had committed my life to and like, this is what I was. Kind of what you were saying, like, I was the same way.

That was my personality. That was my whole personality. And I remember traveling to Italy for the first time was one of the first moments where I realized that there are so many other layers to Casey that is not just performer Casey. Like there's a travel Casey. There's like so many other layers in there of human Casey.

And I liked her a lot. And it wasn't just performer Casey. And that was a really big wave group call as well. Yeah, I totally get it. What you mean? So when you decide, okay, I'm going to stay, one of my favorite series that you do is all of the Italian like red tape and all of that stuff of like,

how do you personally navigate all of the information about expat life? Like what was the most helpful and then what was the least helpful? You mean when it comes to like Italian bureaucracy, which is my nemesis? Yeah. Or just in general, like, I think again,

I think of moving to Italy is like under the Tuscan sun. Right? Like that's like, I think a lot, I think of moving to Italy as under the Tuscan sun. That's like, I think a lot of, like, you pray love, right? That's like the default of what moving abroad means. But what was the piece of information that's like, oh, yes, this was accurate or this was helpful and what was maybe a common piece of information you're like, no, this was not true or this was not as easy as you think it's going to be? Oh, gosh. Yeah, no, it's...

You learn a lot by trial and error. And I think the tough part is that so many people romanticize the idea of living abroad, which is not a bad thing. It's not a bad thing to romanticize your life at all. You should. You should fall in love with your life. You should find joy and like find the beautiful parts of life and living abroad. But it is definitely not easy. Like there is, it is a really, really hard thing to do. And a lot of it was done for me by trial and error. You can spend as many hours as you want searching blog posts and TikToks and videos and all of the things. You can spend as many hours

as you want researching the negatives and the pros and the cons and the ups and the downs. But there are so many things that you will not know until you have experienced them firsthand, right? Like I remember the first time that I, it was after two weeks of living in Italy, and it was Dario's birthday. And I was like, I'm going to go.

We had just been in mandatory quarantine, mind you, for two weeks. So like two weeks we had been inside the house. I had not stepped foot outside in Italy. Two weeks is up. Dario's birthday. I was like, oh my God, I'm going to go and get him a birthday card and like some confetti and a cake.

And like I planned this whole thing out in my head. I was like, I'm going to be the best girlfriend ever. And I have a pharmacy across the street from my house and I went, perfect, a pharmacy. Yes. And I walked my ass to the pharmacy and I walked in. Nicole Aspire You're thinking this is Walgreens or Rite Aid or Duane Reid. Aliza I'm thinking this is, on the list of things to Google before moving to Italy, does my pharmacy sell birthday cards was not one of the things that I thought to Google, right? Nicole Aspire Well, yeah, because you're a live in New York, it's Duane Reid. Duane Reid has everything.

Duane Reid has Imodium and it has squirt guns. You've got everything at that Duane Reid. Cosmetics, baby products, like pets, like you name it. You have liquor, like you have it there, right? Right. Again, like the list of things where I was like, what do I need to know about moving to Italy? What's inside a pharmacy was not one of them, you know? And so I walked in and I took a lap around the store where I was like, what do I need to know about moving to Italy? What's inside a pharmacy was not one of them, you know? And so I walked in and I took a lap around the store and I was like, yeah, there's, I don't see it. So I went up to the pharmacist and I put in my Google translate because I didn't speak

Italian then. And I showed it to her and it was like, where are your birthday cards? And she looked at me like I had three heads and that's when I knew I had fucked up. I was like, oh, okay. And so I went home and I made his birthday card out of notebook paper because I didn't know where to get a card. And now I know that there are specific stores in Italy that you go to buy cards at. Like they're called Catteleria. I butcher that because it's hard for me to pronounce, but they're called Catteleria. And you go there and it's specifically birthday cards. And that's just and it's specifically birthday cards.

And that's just one of the examples of just like the small things like that. There's so many little things that are things in your life that you wouldn't think twice about in your normal life about where to go, where to go when your computer is broken, where to get a birthday card, how to buy groceries at the grocery store, how to go to the post office, like things like that that are second nature in your home state, home country, whatever it is, suddenly become things where you're very overwhelmed and it's very confusing and you have no idea what to do. And living abroad, it's so beautiful in so many ways. It's wonderful.

It's a wonderful experience. I think what you get from it, it will benefit you for a lifetime better than any textbook ever will. There's so many things that you learn from living abroad that will only help you, but you also kind of feel like you're five years old again, kind of relearning how to do life, right? Like you're in a new culture with new traditions and norms and language and, and yeah, like just society rules and regulations, just social norms, like, you know? It'd be hard enough if you were in a new city and you don't know where everything is, get alone, everything's in a different language. So you can't communicate what you want to communicate.

And then with your limited knowledge, this is the same, you know, because I have enough French to get by. But like when you're in France, you cannot say, you know, big flowery sentence witty that you would in English, right? It's like, I need bathroom where it bathroom, right? Like, that's all you got as opposed to, I really need to use your restroom, would you mind? Right? Like I don't, I don't know. So everything is like, there's 12 steps to get to the first step.

Exactly. Whereas in your home- Where's like 12 things you're thinking about before you even, right. Whereas in your home country, it's like, it's just the one step. And I think like, that's the thing, you know, it's just, there's so many added layers to it that you don't really realize until you move abroad.

And like, you know, like there's other, there's other layers to it. There's you, there's homesickness and loneliness and the feeling of losing like your independence and missing really important life events back home. Like there's a lot of things that maybe you don't take into consideration because it's not something that you're thinking about when you're just excited to move, right? Yeah. But again, on that same breath, yes, there are all those things, but there are so many amazing things about living abroad too and traveling abroad at large, right? Yeah. Like you will learn things that will benefit you for a lifetime.

You will change your mind about things that you would have died on a hill for beforehand because you're suddenly open to all these new cultures and ideas and ways of life and people. And it's such a beautiful thing, but it's definitely not under the Tuscan sun. Sometimes it is, but not a lot. Yeah, but not all the time. Well, one of the things I loved about you posting, and I felt this way the first, I went went abroad studied abroad to Ireland so not you know a language gap but you know with the accent sometimes and I was I remember I remember being in Ireland and you know I think I've told this story in the pod before

but it was just like the first month was one of the worst months of my entire life it was just like trying to get classes and in a new you know I couldn't I didn't have an advisor to go to to ask questions and my parents weren't there and I was 20 years old And like there was no like adult present. I realized it was me and like okay It was raining and pouring down rain and I had to walk You know two miles to class every day and it was soaking wet and like okay My roommates were terrible and we're up to four in the morning So I wasn't sleeping, you know all of these things happen things happen. And then I would have the thought which is like,

why are you complaining? You've always wanted this. And I feel like that is something that I know you've experienced and I would love for you to talk a bit about because like, both things can be true. It's like this can be really hard and not everything you've expected. And you can also be grateful to be here because you wanted this. And I just remember feeling so much guilt because I was like, oh my God, I'm in Ireland. I'm in this place I've always wanted to go.

I'm in Europe, what the fuck am I doing complaining? But it was like, no, but my feelings and my loneliness and like all of that was valid too. Yeah, and I think one of the hardest parts and one of the strangest parts and the part that I was not expecting about moving abroad was the guilt of feeling guilty. Yeah. Feeling homesick. Exactly what you say. Yeah. Feeling homesick and feeling like just missing everything that I once knew, right? My culture, my traditions, my norms, food, like my family, my friends, everything.

But then the other layer on top of that, which I don't think anybody really talks about is what you're saying, the guilt of feeling that way, because then your mind starts to go to, there's a thousand people that would kill to be in your shoes. There are so many people that would just die to be where you are, would die to have the

experiences that you're having, would give anything to be in your shoes. What right do you have to complain about it? And that's thinking it leads you to say, so I should never cry or complain or yell or scream ever, ever in my life, ever. Right, because feelings aren't valid. Because I should be grateful to be here and I should only, exactly, invalidate your feelings. I should only be grateful to be here. But that's not realistic and it's not healthy and it's not sustainable at all, at all.

Two things can be true. You can simultaneously mourn your old life while also embracing your new one. They can coexist healthily with each other. It's not a one or the other situation and it shouldn't be a one or the other situation. All the emotions, they coexist and they coincide with each other and that's how they are able to adapt and grow and change. I have so many moments where I am three years living here now, right? And I get a lot of messages where people are like, when does it get easier? Like when does the homesickness go away? And I'm like, I don't think it ever will go away.

Like I don't think it's something that will ever fade away and you'll never see it again, because it's not a physical thing. It's an emotion that lives within you, right? Like it's something that will always be there. It might get smaller with time. Like somebody wants to describe it to me as like a box and a ball within a box. And like over time, the box might become bigger. So the ball bounces on the sides less. But that doesn't mean it's never ever going to bounce. And so one day I'll be having like be on top of the world, I'll be having the best day ever. And then all of a sudden the homesickness, the next day just boom, hits you out of anywhere like a truck.

Like it just hits you. And it's just kind of about learning that that is okay. And you are not alone. And it's normal. And also the way that I've worked to reframe into my mind is how lucky am I to have two places that I'm so in love with and that I can call both home? Like, how lucky is that to have such a deep fixation for my home and being able to have that feeling toward it, that must mean that it was really special.

And that must mean that I must have had a really good time there, you know? And in that way, it's quite beautiful. You really start to love where you come from and love your home and love the things that maybe you would have complained up and down about previously. But it's not easy at all. And it never fully goes away. But I also don't think that that's necessarily a bad thing. Last week, I was in New York City and I had an entire week of crazy, incredible work things.

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to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. My favorite part if you're watching on YouTube is she's talking with her hands and it's like ring ring ring ring. I'm sorry. I didn't take it off. I'm so sorry. No, don't apologize.

It's the best. Don't take it off. No, stop it. I refuse. I will not continue this interview if you take it off. No, no, I just love it. I think it's great. It just makes me really happy every time it pops up.

Thank you. And again, not to invalidate what you just said. No, I think it's, yeah, two things can be true. And it's also, it's like, really it comes down to like comfort. And like when you're not doing well emotionally, you just want comfort. You want like consistency. You want things to be what you already know. And everything about travel is nothing that you've ever done before or nothing you've ever experienced before. And then living abroad is nothing you've ever done before. So that's it. And then, you know, the more you can't have it, the more your

brain wants it. So the more you don't get that comfort or that consistency or the yeah, I mean, it's it's very different. I crave Cheetos. Oh, Cheetos. Yeah, I crave Cheetos more than anything. Oh, for me, it was Kraft Mac and Cheese. Girl. When I was a kid and that was like all I ate. I was like 20 years old. That's all I ate. Oh, my mom sent me literally it to cost, you know, 75 bucks to ship a box and she sent me Kraft Mac and Cheese. Yeah. I think for me it was like, okay, so I packed up and that's actually how I met you the first time is I was living in Europe for two months, went to LA, lived there for a month, went to New York, lived here for two months.

And again, a lot of this was not the same because same language, same custom, same culture. But I just remember the feeling of starting over again all the time. For me, it came down. It's such a hyper-specific example, but like I bought paprika in like four different places. Like even that I've just like, no, like every time I went to a kitchen, I had to start over. I had to like build a pantry again. I had to do all of these things. And so even something as simple as that, which is like, Oh, I'm going to have this my spices in my spice rack and I know where to get them. Like, no.

Yeah, no. And no, you don't know where they are. You're constantly on the go. And it's just like you, you're constantly adapting and changing. And like, again, humans, we crave stability, right? Like that's normal. It's normal to kind of feel in limbo and out of balance when you don't necessarily have it. Or maybe it's the first couple of months not having something like that when you're traveling or living abroad. But then it can be jarring.

Again, kind of to what you're saying is not even travelers are immune to this. It is something that anybody, no matter how long you are abroad for, is going to feel. And even within your own home country, like you're from Seattle, I don't know what's happening on the West Coast, I'm from the East Coast, I have no idea what y'all are doing over there. Like you're a full six hours away from me, I have no idea what life is like over there, right?

So even moving across the country is like a whole new experience, a whole new culture that you have to adapt to. And so nobody is immune to it, like we're all going to have those moments in life where we're just like, what the fuck is happening? And it's okay. It's okay. It's normal. You're not alone. It's going to be fine. But damn, does it suck sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and the videos that I think you are most well known for your culture shock

videos and I'm burying the lead here a little bit. You fucking got engaged in your books coming out in like two weeks a week. She brought a book everybody in the book and in the videos you really talk about the culture shocks you noticed of like teens being able to legally drive motorcycles at 14 and people being able to drink in public. Are there any culture stocks you're still getting used to? Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah. I think, oh gosh. I mean, even just the way that like bureaucracy runs, that's still a very big confusing thing for me. And that's a more serious topic, but that's still really confusing to me. That affects you all the time. Yeah. It's really confusing. Health care is really confusing to me.

Like even, for example, and this like, you know, it might be, people might have some sort of feelings about it. But for example, a couple of days ago, I wasn't feeling good, had a cough and Dario was like, go to the doctor. I was like, no, I'm not going to the doctor. I was like, it's a cough. I get some cough medicine to the pharmacy. I'm good.

No. And a couple days went by, cough was still there. And he was like, go to the doctor. And I was like, no. Because at that point, I was like, I'm feeling okay. I just need some cough medicine. It's not something that I need a doctor for. I can just push through it.

I'm okay. And eventually a couple of days went forward and I was like, okay, maybe now I should go to the doctor. And he was like, why didn't you just go to the doctor in the first place? And that was one of the things that was, it's still something that is just not ingrained into my system to do

because of the way American healthcare is run. And so that's like a really big kind of more serious culture shock that I still, you know, deal with. But yeah. Well, that's one that is just, there's so many girls shooting the grappa. Oh, I still shoot the grappa. Yeah. You're supposed to sip, right? I never learned. Well, I mean, that's, yeah, I mean, that's a whole other episode about like, how much you travel and you realize like America's so Fox. That's a whole episode of like, I remember going to New Zealand two years ago and like New Zealand sense of community and sense of like

preservation of land. I had never experienced anything like it. And it was so different to American individualism and then I go yeah health care and all of these things, universal childcare and better wages and like less houselessness. Like there's so many things that you start realizing. Like, yes, lucky to be an American. There's so much about this country that I'm proud of. And there's a lot of this country that I'm really ashamed of or that, you know, just you open your eyes when you travel.

Yeah. And that's, and that's one of the things too, because I think, yes, like you open your eyes to be like, Oh, maybe this isn't, maybe this isn't so great that we do this in my home country. But on the other side, there are some things where you're like, Wow, I love that about my home country. Like I was the first one when I lived in the US to be so, so critical of the US. First one. And living abroad now, I feel like I'm able to appreciate the really great parts about the US even more. Like I'm able to see them even more because there are so many beautiful things about the US. There's a lot of not so great stuff to pop the US like it's, it's got its issues in the same way that Italy is beautiful, but also has his issues, right? Right. There

is no perfect utopia, but I think living abroad has taught me of, you know, it's specifically Italy because that's what I read a lot about my book is aspects of the Italian culture that I feel are so beautiful and are lessons that I think everybody can take and apply them to their own life. Kind of what you were saying about New Zealand, the community aspect, that's massive in Italy. Family is like at the forefront in Italian culture. The idea of La Dolce Vita is, you know, we all know La Dolce Vita, right? But what does La Dololci vita actually mean? And a lot of it is just this idea of incorporating rest and not seeing it as the bad guy. They see rest as a crucial

part of a person's overall well-being. That's just part of the culture, right? And coming from the American mindset, I know you get this as a business owner too, coming from the American mindset where we are kind of taught that work is rewarded and rest is demonized, right? We're a work-centric culture and Italy, an Italian culture, puts overall well-being, which includes rest, at the forefront. And you see this in so many different ways, right? La Posa in the middle of the day, which is shutting the stores down for three hours in the middle of the day and taking time to go rest with your family.

The community culture again, right? Or... Meals that take six hours. Meals that take six hours. Yeah, but like, yeah, it's just like taking your time to enjoy rather than to rush through because life is meant to be enjoyed and not rushed through, which is something that Italians have mastered. And I get so many comments a lot and messages a lot of people saying that Italians are lazy, like kind of putting that stereotype that Italians are lazy and they're not lazy. They've just understood what the rest of us are trying to achieve,

which is the formula for balance, you know? And it's just they have this view on life overall generally as culture that just puts that idea at the forefront. And it's beautiful, especially coming from like the complete opposite, you know? And it was something kind of going back to your original question on like culture and culture shocks and things that were difficult for me to adapt to. I talk about it a lot in my book, the culture shocks that were I adapted to very easily and the culture shocks that were really, really difficult for me to adapt to. That was one of the things that was really difficult for me to adapt to because I come

from New York. I come from the wholesome culture. I come from go, go,, I come from go, go, go, go, go, work, work, work, work, work. And entering this culture of let's sit and have our coffee, let's sit and let's get a gelato at 10 a.m. and let's take a week off from work because we deserve it. Let's take four weeks off from work because we deserve it. You know, it's just that idea. And it was difficult for me to adapt to at first. And I'm so glad that I did. There's a lot of beautiful

lessons there. In expat life, one of the things that we have to talk about as comfortable as or as open as you're willing to be like, what are financial side? What's the finance side of that? Because in terms of getting a visa, how much does it cost? Now being engaged, I imagine you're... If you get married, you have a little more flexibility. So talk to me about what is the financial hoops that you're thinking about needing to jump through, as well as a really quick overview of the logistics. Yeah. I mean, the biggest thing that I can tell anybody planning to move abroad or live abroad for an extended period of time is start a savings account. Like ASAP, start putting

money in a separate savings account. Not even your savings account, start a separate savings account and start putting money into it. That's what I did. And I was in a situation during COVID where I, during COVID, for example, I started delivering food for the city of New York. They had this program that was delivering food to people who had low immune systems and couldn't leave the house for food or low income individuals who didn't have money for food. It was a lot of different people that we were delivering food

to. And that's what I did as a job. And I loved it actually. That's what I started doing. And I did that like six days a week because at that point I had an inkling that we were going to move to Italy. And I was like, I need to finance myself somehow. I was also a performer in New York, so I was completely broke. I had no money. And I previously had to finance myself somehow. I was also a performer in New York, so I was completely broke. I had no money. I had previously worked pretty much every single job under the sun that you could imagine in New York. Any job that you can think3,000, that's a lot of money.

I was like, maybe I do it. That's rent for two months, three months, honestly. I didn't do it, but I almost did. Now and when we decided to move to Italy, the study visa process, shockingly for me, was quite easy. I'm not sure if it's because it was COVID and it was kind of a strange time to be asking for visas and things like that. Mine went relatively quickly. I also went through the Detroit Consulate office, which was a lot easier than what I've

heard the New York City Consulate, because I'm from Detroit originally. But I think my total visa package, I think it cost to actually send in the materials, it cost $200 to send in the materials. However, in the package, you had to pay for the school. So again, I was going on a study visa, I was studying Italian at a local language academy, and I had to pay for schooling. So I think six months of six months of schooling, I think was, oh, gosh, I think it was just around $1,900, $2,000, maybe for six months of schooling, not cheap, right. And

so I, I saved with that as well, you had to have, I believe, $8,000 in your savings account. Like you had to show $8,000 in your checking account along with your visa application. I did not have $8,000. I asked every single family member, my God, am I going to get kicked out of Italy? I asked every single family member if they could deposit X amount of dollars into my account for a couple of weeks so that I could show it and I would give it back because I was like, I can support myself when I'm there. I can support myself. And that's how I found ways to have the money in my account in that way, let's say.

And then, gosh, what else did I need? Oh, you had to have a flight, you had to have your flight booked. So, you had to buy the flight. So, all in all, to submit to the visa, it was a couple of thousand, a couple of thousand, not including what you had to show in your bank account. And it was not cheap. And then when I got there, I was still teaching English online. That was my job at the time was I taught English online. It was my one surviving job pre pandemic. It was through a company

called VIP kid. I don't think that they're really in service anymore because China's laws changed. But basically it was teaching English to kids online every morning. And that's what I did upon moving to Italy for the first six months. I was in a very strange situation in the fact that when I started posting on social media, it took off. And so I made the transition out of teaching English about six months after moving to Italy. That doesn't mean I was making money as an influencer at that point. I just had the savings and I had worked my ass off to have money to live on until I could get either another job or I could support myself financially somehow else.

And that came about a year after moving to Italy because that's when I opened up my business. So all in all, I'm really glad that I had, you know, kicked my ass to make a savings account because for the first year I lived in Italy, I was not making that much money. I was not making money. I am asking a selfish question. I can also touch you offline about it, but I imagine there's a lot of people who yet do want to move abroad, do want to move to Italy. For me as a business owner, are you paying double taxes?

Are you paying taxes in Italy and are you paying taxes in the United States? Yes. Okay, fine. I am just figuring all this out myself. I got an accountant here. Oh my gosh, it is a headache because there's so many different steps and I am not a tax expert and I am not an accountant and I don't know international tax law. For some reason, they didn't teach me that when I was getting my BFA in dance.

So I really don't know. I is not my field, right? And so like I hired people, I was like, I need an accountant, I needed a lawyer, which is another added expense. When you move abroad, you need to get your lawyer, you have to get a lawyer, you have to get an accountant and you need to budget for that. Like, it's a non-negotiable, you have to have a lawyer. You have to get a lawyer. You have to get an accountant and you need to budget for that. Like it's a non-negotiable. You have to have a lawyer because like if anything, especially when you're dealing with Italian bureaucracy, like my God, you need

to make sure that you have somebody that can walk through it with you has your back. Like it's a headache and a half. Yeah. And so the United States is one of, I think, three countries in the world that taxes based on citizenship and not residency. And so even though I live in Italy and I have no plans ever of moving back to the US, that could change. I don't know. But I don't have any plans right now. I'm moving back to the US. I still have to pay taxes because I am a citizenship holder. The only way to never pay taxes to the US again is for me to renounce my citizenship.

I'm obviously not going to do that, right? Also, if you wanted to do that, it costs $2,000 and you have to go through like an intensive process to like, you know, do that. But it's funny because that's another reason why Dario, how many comments I get where people are like, Dario, this is with you for a green card. And I'm like, he literally doesn't want his green card because that means he has to pay taxes to the US. He doesn't want it. Right. Yeah, but so Italy and the US have something called, they have a tax treaty agreement between them. So basically, if you don't pay or if you make under, don't quote me on this, because

this is, you know, from what I understand, I think it just recently changed. But if you make under 110 grand, I think is what it is 110 grand, you aren't double taxed. That's like the tax treaty. So you pay the taxes in Italy and then that tax credit, if you will, it gets put as a tax credit to your taxes in the US. And that's how they avoid the double taxation to a certain extent. So yeah, that's the way to work around it. But my business is based in the US. I have a separate business in Italy. That's just my self-employment business.

It's called a Petite Eva. And my accountants in the US and my accountants in Italy, they talk to each other and they make sure that everything is legal and fine and dandy. So yeah, it's a headache. I have another tab open right now and it's quote, can I live abroad as a business owner and not pay double taxes? So. Yeah, no, you can't.

We're gonna figure that out. No, it depends. No, you cannot. There's ways, there's ways to, we can talk about it. I would love that. I want to talk about something a little more serious and then we can talk about fun Italian stuff. And Kristin, our podcast producer, joked with us before we hopped on that that was going to be the fun part for me because I love talking about Italy with you. But before we get there, you talk in the book about how being a professional dancer was both a good and a bad thing when it came to sharing your story online and kind of being a public person and a content creator.

Very similar for me of like, I'm very used to rejection. I'm very used to have people having opinions about me. But like, it's both being used, like used to the constant criticism, but you also talk about something that I think is really common with anyone in any sort of like performing or front facing profession, which is rejecting the people pleasing mentality. So maybe talk to me about like, how is it just indifferent being in the spotlight in the online space and maybe how being a dancer kind of prepped you for that. Yeah. The internet's mean. Yeah. Yeah.

That's my contribution here. No, no, no. And it's a lovely contribution because that's the easiest way to put it is that the internet is mean. It is, it is. I wrote this in the book, which you know, but there is no guidebook for what to do when you go to having millions of eyes on you. Nobody writes a guidebook on how to handle that. It's something that you learn as you go. And it is a really tough thing to learn as you go. And it's not something that I don't, I don't think anybody ever masters it completely. I don't think that anybody ever really fully gets over, you know, mean comments.

Like I don't think that the human brain was meant to handle the amount of negativity that we see online. I don't think that we were ever meant to know. I don't think that we were ever meant to know. And it's a skill. And everybody thinks, and everybody has an opinion about who you are and what you should be doing, even though they've never participated.

Like, and I mean that with all of the empathy and the love in the world, but the criticism I get, like no one's criticizing me who's doing more than me. Like all the criticism I might get, or everybody online has a million different opinions about how I should run my business and they've never been a business owner. Or a million different opinions about how I should show up and they've never posted a video. So it's like, and again, I say so much empathy and understanding of like, someone's frustrated, someone's taking it out on you, but like at the

same time, you don't know everything we have to navigate in order to make certain decisions we're making. No, I totally agree. And it's just, there's a million differing opinions on what it takes to be the perfect human being. Like, and there is no such thing as a perfect human being and everybody has differing opinions, right? Like maybe for example, oh my gosh, just to give you a little example that just recently very happened, as of yesterday, recently very happened was I posted a video of my cat and somebody

was like, I love seeing your cats. Please post your cats more. I like the Italy stuff, but I love seeing your cats. And I was like, cute. And then this other woman messaged me and she was like, stop it with the... I want to screenshot it and send it to you. She was like, stop it with the fucking cat content. I'm quoting her. Stop it with the fucking cat content. I don't want to see it. I want to see Italy.

I had a follower and I posted it in our Slack channel and our team Slack channel, literally, let's call it 1030pm. We posted about, you know, Roth IRAs and how you have to put the money in and then also you have to invest. And that's a misconception people make a lot as they put the money in and they think they're done. And she's like, Oh my God, this saved my financial life when I read it. I'm so grateful to you. Not 12 hours later, I posted something about genocide, whatever's going on right now. And she was like, Oh, you got political unfollow. And I was just like, it was just, it was actually the very great and to your, you know, cat no cat example, you just realize that even the same people who are like, Oh my God, I love you. I love you. I love you. You can do one

thing and they're like, I hate you. I've hated this girl. I've always hated this girl. So you just get to a point where you're like, okay, I literally cannot please everybody nor should I drive. Exactly. Exactly. And like my boundaries are solid and I'm going to feel good about my decisions and I'm going to do what I'm going to do. And if you hate me, cool, there's the exit. And I also, I don't need to hear you exiting. You can just exit. So I just, yeah, it's, it's no, you hit the nail on the head. I totally get it. I totally empathize like what you're feeling. Cause like, I felt it. I think everybody's felt it. Right. Like especially I'm the world's

biggest people players are growing up. Like it's Like it's just part of, you know, I want to make sure people are happy. I want people to be happy and I want people to, you know, you know, be okay. And realizing that that is not a possibility that you cannot please everybody. You cannot make everybody happy. No matter what you do, no matter what you do,

somebody will have a problem with it. Somebody will disagree. Somebody will hate you for it. Like it is something that was a very painful lesson to learn, a very painful realization to have, especially coming from somebody who just wants, you know, to, you know, make everybody happy and, and I think more than that, just as humans, we want people to like us. We want to be included. We want to be a part of the pack. right? And realizing that that is not a possibility. It is not

possible to have everybody like you. It was a very painful lesson to learn, a very good lesson to learn, but it wasn't something that was easy to learn. And being online, being online increased that tenfold. And it's hard, right? Because social media on one hand, it's such a beautiful thing. Like I attribute everything to social media and similar to you, like my audience, I'm more stupidly grateful for my audience than they will ever know. Like they have gotten me through some really, really tough times. Some really, really hard shit and posting and interacting with people online has saved me. It's like the same world that was causing me to go insane was also saving

me from total disintegration. Like it really was that way. Yeah, right? Isn't that funny? But it's, it's, it is not easy. It's, it's a cruel, cruel world. It's cruel. And to echo what we were talking about at the beginning, and not to harp on it too much, but like, you know, just because kind of thread of my work and you know, yours in a way with travels it's like when a woman is standing in the fullest version of herself and she feels confident and she feels capable and she feels unabashedly herself. What it does is it's a mirror to everybody who doesn't feel that way. And you have one of two options in that moment. You either have the option to rise to the occasion

and be like, huh, this person brings out something in me that's really curious and really interesting, and I'm going to follow that thread and figure out why does this person make me feel like maybe I want to step up. The other version of that is I don't like this person does this person make me feel like maybe I want to step up. The other version of that is I don't like this person because this person makes me feel badly about myself. And I'm like, we're not making you feel badly about yourself. We're a mirror of showing you what's possible when you do like yourself and when you do trust yourself and when you are the fullest version of yourself.

And I think for most people, they're not maybe at the time or place to be able to handle that. And so I think that's for me what happens over and over and over again, as we see women show up. Sometimes for the first time you've ever seen a woman be the baddest, best version of herself on an online platform. And it feels like a threat. It feels threatening. It feels accusatory, but it's none of those things. No, totally. And I got into a point where I was dealing with a specific kind of hate online. I was dealing with a lot of xenophobia online, which I talk all about in the book in the chapter that you're referring to. It was a very, really tough,

tough experience to go through. And it escalated to a point where it was bringing me down, down, down, down, and it escalated to a point where I eventually had somebody say something to my face, which was my first experience of having a hate comment of sort, be said to my face, because it's so easy. When you read it online, it's so easy to be like, who Okay, we put my armor on. And I was expecting this when I came in to to check my social media today.

But I can just block and I can delete and I can move on with my life, right? And it got to a point where I wasn't even checking my messages anymore because I was just like scared to open them, honestly. And like you get those comments so frequently. But they're always like no matter how much armor you put on to deal with it, there's always one that's worded just correctly to like kind of pierce your armor a little bit. And it escalated to that point where somebody has said something to my face in person, which was my first experience with that. And it was one of the most painful things I've ever experienced. And I woke up the next day and I detail that whole experience in my book.

Like I detailed what this process was was like because it is not easy. And I woke up the next day and I realized that similar to what you were saying, if people have two paths, I had two paths. It was either I could stop right then and there, I could take myself offline and I could stop, or I could continue going. And I chose to continue going for a variety of reasons.

One being the fact that even if I took myself off of line, off of line? If I took myself offline, there, off of line, if I took myself offline, there would always be somebody in my life that would hate me, that would like something that I did, that would disagree with me, that wasn't going to change not being offline, right? It's a shared experience that humans have in the world. Continuing though, gave me so many more benefits.

It allowed me to connect with people. It made me a better version of myself. And that's why I made the decision to continue. And I kind of came to this realization through a lot of, again, a lot of pain. And I'm so happy now to look back and see that that brought me to this realization that if people are going to, if somebody is going to take time out of their day to say something negative about you or to direct negativity toward you in any way, shape or form out of nowhere purely because of whatever reason, it is 1000% because there is something happening in their life that makes them feel

the need to do that. 1000%. It's not you. And so the best thing that you can do is wish them well, send them on their way, wish them the love they're so desperately seeking and move on, right? Because they don't deserve to have any more of your energy depleted. Like you don't deserve to have any more of your energy depleted. You don't deserve to have any more of your time and your light and your energy taken from them. It's something, whether you're online, whether you're not, whether you live in a small town, whether you live in a big town, whether you have a big job or a small job, it's something that we will all experience at some point. Somebody hating us, somebody not liking us, somebody shooting negativity at us, somebody trying to put us down for whatever reason

and turning a mirror. It's because what you were saying, even the fact that what you do turns a mirror on themselves and makes them see something that they don't like, it's something that we will all experience in our lifetimes, unfortunately. And I think kind of coming to the realization that it's not you is so important. And that's not to say that we don't experience times in our life where we need to step up or we need to change or we need to change our behavior because, you know, maybe some of that negativity is, you know, has underlying values of, you know, truth. That's not necessarily the case. Constructive criticism exists, of course, but for somebody to project negativity at

you unwarranted, that's when it's crossed the line and when it's just not, it's not you, it's them. And there's nothing more that you can do other than to wish them well and move on with your day because you don't deserve to have any more of your energy depleted from that interaction, you know? Yeah. Oh my God, I'll get off my soapbox now. I could talk about it for a long time. No, no, you're not.

No, I asked you the question. No, and it's something to round us out a little bit. It is something that I keep bringing up on the show because what you said earlier and what I again, I've also said, the human brain was not meant to get this much feedback and this many opinions all the time. And I, the metaphor I use is like, okay, if I'm walking down the street and a hundred people have something to say about me, even if 95 of them say nice things, that is deeply overwhelming.

Now put that on a most grand massive scale, right? Like we have 5 million followers. You're up to what million, 2 million. Like it's a lot of people. It's a lot of people at both. And then for both you and I, it's 95% great. But one, that's overwhelming in and of itself. Lovely, but overwhelming. And two, the 5% feels so much louder. The 5% feels so much louder. And so I have continued to talk about and want to talk about more just like, I think social media will eventually be like what we consider smoking to be.

We will eventually get to a point where we realize like, this is not good for our brains, this is not good for our bodies, this is not good for our stress. And I can't come soon enough, honestly, for me of this reckoning of like, okay, cancel culture doesn't work, like piling on doesn't work. All of this, you know, opinions all the time and just, you know, throwing tomatoes doesn't work. So we got to figure out a way forward because to your point as well, social media and for us, social media has been the greatest place, you know, in community building.

And it's allowed me to build a business and give people jobs and do all these things. And it also feels like it's killing me. Like it feels like it's killing me and killing other people online. So it's a double edged sword for sure. For sure. And I think, yeah, like, especially surrounding like businesses and stuff, you know, it's, I think about often how many people, but women in particular, I think about often that have tried to start a business of some sort, have tried to start a business online, have tried to start a business offline, have tried to create content. I'm laughing because I posted about this three days ago. You know exactly where I'm going with this, aren't you?

Yeah, I think about it all the time how many women wanted to do something and it got it makes me so sad about it like truly like talk about the crying. I know I'm crying. Because it's literally like I know how many people how many women like wanted to do something so badly and wanted to you know put themselves out there and they did, they put themselves out there and they tried to do the thing, something that they're really passionate about, something that they really, really wanted and then got discouraged by the inevitable hate comments that come from it because I know I've seen it, you've seen it. Like it's horrible. Like some of the things like, some of the things that, you know, when people ask me like, well, what do you mean bad? Like they don't think

it's bad. And when I share with them, like some comments that I've gotten just out of the blue, messages, not anything that I, I've done nothing. Emails. I get emails, yes. Of just like the most, the craziest things, the craziest, craziest things. I think about that and like how they must have gotten it and how many women have given up,

stopped, because they were just like, I can't handle this. And that sucks. That sucks. And I was thinking specifically on, you know, even further than that, like the other day, I made a video that I posted online, 15 second video, live reacting to a song on one of Taylor Swift's new albums, one of, because she has two albums, live reacting to a song. I remember this. I love Taylor Swift.

I love her music and it's not anything that anybody should be ashamed about. If you like her music, if you don't, whatever. I don't give a shit if you don't like her music. Great. It's not for everybody. Totally. It's fine. I made a 15 second video and the angry men and women of the internet found it.

And within a couple of hours, Tori, I had 3000 comments, just the craziest. Like, the craziest comments. Oh my gosh. Tori, some people were telling me to go die because I made a video saying I liked Taylor Swift's new song. What? And that video, it's crazy. And I remember like, very luckily, like at this point, like I have a very thick skin and a lot of that comes from, you know, I never answered your earlier question, but a lot of it does come from being a performer where I'm up on a stage being judged constantly, right? Like that's part of what I signed up for being a dancer and you know, being in social media, luckily media Luckily that you know helped me to a certain extent But at the same time like 200 eyes is not too million and it's just a very different experience

Nothing can prepare you for that But I remember thinking like I you know, I'm so grateful I have a tough skin for this because I'm finding a lot of these comments and I'm not hurt by them like they don't Bother me at all because I'm just like, Whoa, like that's crazy to say that. Right. It's almost comical. It's comical. It was comical.

But the thing that made me sad about it was thinking about what about like the young woman that like, what about the young girl that just like loves Taylor Swift and maybe she listened to the song and she went to school the next day and she was like, I loved it. And then somebody says something to her and like has to knock the next day and she was like, I loved it. And then somebody says something to her and like has to knock her down because she says that she likes a certain thing. Kind of going back to our earlier conversation of seeing a woman standing in her power, seeing a woman that is just enjoying something and having to knock it down. For what? Like what? Why? Like, what's the point?

Yeah. and go. When you're ready, kick back and call it a night. New Brunswick, always inviting. Visit tourismnewbrunswick.ca. Oh, eco-friendly towels? They're quick dry. Yeah, you know, Homesense always has a lot of great towels. Let me see that. Quick dry. Will it dry quickly enough that I won't notice when you use my towel? Okay, that happened once. Maybe more than once.

Anyways, these are only $13. $13? Okay. Let's get you this navy one and for me, the soft beige one. Deal so good, everyone approves. Only at HomeSense. The exact same thing I literally posted about it a couple days ago because I'm on fat phobic internet. My posts have made their way over to...

I'm sorry. It's okay. I'm sorry for you. It's bound to happen. And literally, probably, you know, out of 10 comments, eight are men telling me that I'm fat and unlovable and that I spend all my money McDonald's and that I should go die, you cunt. So that's that's all of them. So um, I had the same thought I wasn't sad for me. I mean, I was pissed. I was like, this is just ridiculous. But I was sad thinking about every single woman who felt like, Oh, I can't keep going. Because people are so mean. And I don't blame those women. Like, I don't blame them at all. No, there's many times that I am like, you know

what, quitting would be easier. Quitting would be actually better for my mental health. That's literally and that's, that's the moment that I came to. I remember the night so specifically because that thing happened that experience happened which again I talked about in my book because my god it was like a therapy session writing that chapter I think. Yeah. But I came to that moment where I was like okay I have two paths here neither of them are bad neither of them are bad choices. If I go this route where I quit, my mental health is saved in a lot of ways. Is it going to help me in the long run because I know, you know, this exists everywhere? No, but it it's a valid choice. Or I could go this

route, which is also a valid choice, but it's not going to be easy. It's going to be really fucking hard. Well, and let's talk about if you quit. Yeah, you have to stop your business. Like, that's the thing I think about it. Like, if okay, if I did want to take a break, I have a team now. So it's like, okay, I just want to stop posting. We don't make money. My decision now impacts 15 other people's livelihoods. So that's the really hard part. And again, we'll wrap this up for most people listening. They're like, okay, I get it. But like, no, but like, there is just the certain level of just like, I want anybody listening who's online to just like, we're real people. We're trying our best, like, just try to be kind and understand that we're

making the best decisions we can with what we have. And like, yeah, World events is really good. Yeah, no, it's, it's no, and I think I like I would expand it to just like anybody like the reason why I wrote the chapter why I wrote this chapter the way that I wrote it is Because again, this is a shared human experience Like we are all going to have this moment where somebody says something nasty Where somebody says something unwarranted where somebody hates you for no reason Where somebody just feels the need to take you down because they need to feel better about themselves It is a shared human experience, whether you are

an influencer, whether you're not an influencer, whether you're a business owner or you're not a business owner, whether you're Sandy Jo from Minnesota or you're, I don't know, Joanne living in New York City. It is a shared experience. And I think it's important that we talk about it. And I think it's important that we go into depth about it. And it's part of the reason why I wrote that chapter, because it is something we will all experience and there is a way to work through it. And there is a lesson to be learned from it.

And there is a positive that happens at the end of it, but it doesn't mean it's easy, but there is something to be gained from it. And it just, I think it's important that we shed light on it in whatever way that is. And I don't want you not giving what you have to offer and bettering, and I'm not talking about you, Casey, but the general you.

I don't want you dimming your light and dimming what you have to offer and dimming the fullest version of yourself to please a random stranger on the internet that you've never met who doesn't actually give a shit about you. Okay, we have to talk about things that aren't this. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just want to because I want to talk about gelato. Okay, so your book is you deserve good gelato. I have to talk to you. How do we determine good gelato? Because I have my own system and I think a lot of our systems are the same. So I'm going to start us off. The pistachio flavor should

be what color, Kasey? Yes. It should be a light brownish green, not vibrant green. It should be a light brownish green because that is the color that real pistachios are when they are ground up. Light brown green. If it's piled really high and looks really pretty and like entices you into the store, is that good gelato? Step turn pivot walk away, girly. No. It's not good gelato.

No, because it's so interesting to me because the tubs down at the bottom, the tubs down at the bottom are the things, that's what's cold. That's what keeps things cold. So if it's piled high, that means that the ice cream is able to stay out of the freezer without melting, which like, no. Suspicious. No. Is it good gelato if it's in metal tins and you can't even see it? Yes. That is great gelato. It doesn't mean that open gelato is bad, but again, it just means you have to vet the open gelato a little bit more. But the closed containers, when

you see them, okay. Sorry, because when you can't see it, it's because I'm sorry. No, that was so cute. Makes me really happy because the last time I saw you, you were struggling with Italian. No, no, no. 2021 when I met last time I saw you, you were struggling with Italian. No, no, no. 2021 when I met you for the first time, you were like trying to order and you were like so, you were beating yourself up, but I love it. Por que? Great. Keep going, babe.

We can do this whole episode in Italian. I don't know what you're saying, but I can do it. No, don't be embarrassed. I thought that was so genuine and lovely. No, that was adorable. No, I love it. You know what's so funny is that, you know what's so funny is that the other day, or not the other day, my God, when I was writing my book, when I was writing the book, I kept

trying to write, I wanted to write non-alcoholic and I kept writing an alcoholic because in Italian it's an alcohol, an alcoholical. Look at you, byling the queen. And I kept writing. Well, weling the queen. And I kept writing. Well, mm, mm, mm, but I kept trying to write non-alcoholic, but I kept writing non-alcoholic and it kept giving me the red squiggly line. I got so frustrated, Tori. I got, I took a lap.

I was like, I'm writing this correctly. And then I realized that, oh, I was not, I was not. Anyway, the gelato, what was he saying about the gelato? Middletons. You can't see it. Ohato? Middletons. You can't see it. Oh yeah, Middletons. No, it's really good because it means that they don't need the display because they know their gelato is good.

Again, it doesn't mean that open containers are bad. It just means that you don't want the mountains, the ski mountains. Totally. Anyway, yeah. Okay, rapid fire for you. Tell me. Favorite city in Italy. Oh, that's so you. Tell me. Favorite city in Italy. Oh, that's so mean.

I know. Pick a child. I'm biased. Sophie's choice. Let's go. I'm biased. My favorite city is Florence. Yeah, that's great.

I live here. This is my favorite city. Yeah, love it. Also, the Florentines would kill me if I said no. Oh, they truly would. They would be really mad. They'd be kicked out of Italy. Favorite day trip maybe out of Florence?

Ooh, I think it's going to be the city of Florence. I think it's going to be the city of Florence. I think it's going to be the city of Florence. I think it's Oh, they truly would. They would be really mad. They'd be kicked out of Italy. Favorite day trip maybe out of Florence? Ooh, there is a town, a very small town up north, just slightly up north. It's called Mantaba. It's a small, small city. It's one of my favorite small cities in Italy. It's right on the river. It borders between Emilia-R Romagna and Lombardy. There is nothing in this town. There is nothing there.

It is just cute and they have really good pumpkin ravioli because they're known for pumpkin ravioli and I just love it. It's just a really cute little town. Yeah. All right. Favorite gelato flavor or maybe best gelato flavor. Pistachio. Yeah. Pistachio. Hands down. Pistachio. And also like, but more specifically, like

pistachio crema, crema de pistachio is what's called. They usually have like the cream of pistachio on top of the gelato. Oh, it is so good. And then also like nocciola, which is what am I trying to say? Hazelnut. Yeah. Hazelnut. That's nice. I'm a pistachio-limone combo girl. Oh. Okay.

I always love to do like a sorbet with a gelato. I know I'm doing that. Oh, what's your, I like it. What's your method there? Why? Oh, I just, typically I've been to Italy and it's been warm and I like want something that's creamier and that feels thicker, but I also want something that's refreshing.

When, when you come here, solid side note, so sorry, when you come here, because you're coming here so soon, I'm so excited. I'm very excited. When you come here at this Jadteria in Florence is called La Sobiteria, some of my favorites, but they're known for this lemon and sage sorbet gelato. It is so good. It's so good. It is the perfect like summer refreshing. Like it's so good. It's so good. And I also love strawberry. I've told the story before. I, when I met you in Italy, I was ordering for the entire month I was there. I'm even going to butcher it. Um, I

was pronouncing it the wrong way. Pronounced it the right way for me. What is it? Strawberry. Fraggola. Is it Fraggola? Yeah. Where do you put the emphasis? Well, I'm not Italian. Fraggola?

No, no, no, but Fraggola. So I was doing Fraggola. I was doing Fraggola for the whole month. Whole month feeling so confident. I'm like, Lemone, Fraggola. I was just like, oh. And then literally the last day we're driving back to France to leave out of Paris, we stopped for one last gelato like on the border.

And she finally corrects me. Like, and this is the true testament to how kind the Italians are that it took 30 days for them to actually be like, bitch, that's not how you do it. There's so nice. But it was like, fragola. And I was like, bitch, that's not how you do it. There's so nice, but it was like Fraggola and I was like, Oh, so stupid. But now I well clearly I forgot but I'm like, Oh, where does the emphasis go? So it's so funny. I was doing it. I felt so confident. I felt so good. It's okay. I have made so many languages. I told Dario's mom that I was horny instead of excited one time. Like you can bounce back from Fragola if you can. You can bounce back. I bounce back.

Your future mother-in-law. Yeah. Your mother-in-law. Yeah. Look at that. Okay. Anyway. I'm going to be really, really mean. Best Italian dish. Where am I at in Italy? That depends. Oh, that's a great question though. I'll set you up. Let's go Cinque Terre. Ooh, pesto.

Because there's a right answer at Cinque Terre. Yeah. Pesto. Yeah. Pesto everything. And I mean, okay, if I had to pick like one dish, okay, let me give you three, okay? Because I can't pick one because also, you know. That's great.

Let me give you top three. Pasta's top three. Carbonara. I love a good freaking carbonara dude. In Florence there is wild boar pasta. Papadella con cinghiale. That's top three. I'm not gonna put pesto pasta because pesto a lot of the times is actually used as like a spread or like a sauce instead of like a pasta sauce. It's used on top of like bread or with prosciutto or something like that. So I'm going to leave that off. Down in the Omafi coast, there is another chip of pasta

that is from a town called Nerano. It's pasta al Nerano. I think I can't pronounce it correctly. I don't live down there, but Nerano, Nerano pasta. It's like zucchini pot. It's so good, dude. If you're going down there, you have to get it. That's where the wedding is. That's where I'm starting. Okay. I'm starting in Omafe and then we're going up. I'm pretty sure it's pasta al Nerano. Get that. Great. Get that. Oh, yeah. Best. I'm a first timer and I'm visiting Italy city. Like what's the best place to go if you've never been to Italy? I mean, I feel like Florence is a great one. Florence is a great one. I think if you're nervous about it, any big city,

so like Venice, Florence, Rome is always, I call it the Holy Grail itinerary because, Naples, yeah. Naples can be tough for first time travelers because it's specific, I love Naples. It's beautiful, I love Naples. But if you're a first time traveler, for some solo traveler, it's a big city.

It's a rough city, it's gritty and grungy and it's beautifully chaotic. There's so much beauty in Naples. The people there are amazing, the food is amazing. But I think for first time, especially first time solo traveler women, I usually say, let's do a Venice Florence prom. Like it's in Holy Grail. It makes you feel comfortable. It's

international so people will always speak English there and then the next time you come you're already been here and you can hit up the smaller cities if you want. Yeah. Bologna too. Bologna is a really great city for solo travelers too. Bologna is on my list. Oh my god. Oh yeah. I forgot about Bologna. I can't. I know they're so good. You got it. I will also say and I say this to anybody. I mean, this is the same thing, right? If you come to the United States, go to New York, New York's great. Get outside in New York, go somewhere else. It's the same thing with Italy. Like I cannot recommend enough. I'm purposely doing this on this trip where I'm taking my partner who's never been to Italy, we're going to go to Florence, we're going to do the Amalfi Coast, and then I'm purposely putting us in the middle of nowhere with a car. And I've done this every single time. I travel, we pick a middle of nowhere place in addition to the cities because it's more authentic.

It's like, it's more authentic. It's like, you're just getting a better vibe. And there's especially in like Italy and France, there's these tiny little cute towns that no one's ever heard of and that no one ever talks about where you'll have some of the best food and some of the best interactions because they're not this huge city. Yeah. Yep. Exactly. Yeah. I think like first time travelers, maybe it's your first time you're nervous and like you're stressed about it. Visit the big cities. It's like you say, if you're coming to the US for the first time, it's like New York, LA, Miami, kind of. But the next time you come, go see the smaller towns, go visit the smaller places,

go get off of the beaten path, get on the train to some random town, get a car and go stay in the middle like in Agro Turismo in the middle of the countryside somewhere. They're like family-run establishments that usually have like a restaurant on site and they're in the middle of the countryside and they're so authentic and so awesome. So yeah, totally agree. I love Italy so much. Okay, last quote rapid fire question for you. Favorite word in Italian. My favorite word in Italian. I love Mamma Mia. Of course! I love the phrase Mamma Mia.

It doesn't work for me. Oh, the first time you hear it and it's like the authentic Mamma Mia. It's like, oh my God, Mamma Mia. It's just so fun. It's so good. And the first time, I wrote a chapter about this too. It's in my chapter about failure. The first time I ever heard Mamma Mia, my head whipped around so fast because I was

like, it's real? It's real? Like, they say that? And it was like, this woman just carried on with her day. She was like, oh, Mamma Mia. And I was like, I was like looking around like nobody else is reacting to grace. And then I try it. Like when I say it, it doesn't quite work. Like it doesn't, I'm getting there, but it doesn't quite work. And it's okay, I'll get there one day. But I just freaking love it. I love it.

It's one of my favorite words. I love hearing other people say it. It just feels so like, it just feels so Italian. I don't know. It just feels so like quintess just feels so Italian. I don't know. It just feels so like quintessentially Italian. Yeah. That's how I feel about almost every Italian word is I think it's the most beautiful language. I'm actually I'm doing my Duolingo before I go. So I'm learning my Italian. And the

first when I went there with Christine, when we were outside of Bari, there is a town now it's written sister Nino. but if you know if you speak any Italian CI is a ch sound so it's cisternino and something about oh that's just so Italian it's just cisternino it's so good oh right it's like how my name like the CI is is Caccia like Caccia Pepe yeah um but it's okay I take it and I can run with it. No, one of my favorite words, one of my other favorite words is an Italian bestemmie. And I don't say it's my favorite word because I know it's a bestemmie. The first time I, a bestemmie, sorry, I should have acknowledged this. A bestemmie is an Italian swear word that is so bad that there

is no translation in English. Like they're bad words to say. If you scream one in public, you'll be fined. That's how bad they are. And they're usually against a deity or like, they're bad to say, you don't say it. But the first time I ever heard one, I was like, this is the most beautiful word I've ever heard. I didn't know what it meant. I didn't know what it was. I was like, this is the most beautiful word I have ever heard in my entire life. The rolling R, the up and the down, the infection. I was like, oh my God. And it was Dario that said it. He like cut his finger or something and he said it. And it was before we moved

to Italy. And I was just kind of repeating everything that I heard because I was trying to learn. Yeah. Like a little bird. And he whipped around. He was like, no. He's like, you cannot. No. He's like, no. Don't say it.

Like you cannot say that in front. You know, you cannot say in front of my Nana. She will die. Like you cannot do this. I was like, what? So naturally I went to my work the next day. I taught my entire work team because I was like, I learned this amazing, beautiful Italian word.

Yeah. It's, I don't say it anymore, but I love it. I can't repeat it on here or else you're going to be taken down. You're going to have to tell me offline what it is because I'm really curious. Oh my God, I really want to know. Okay. Tell me about your book. Tell me about where we can buy it. Plug away, my friend. Okay. So my book is called You Deserve Good Gelato Reasons to Travel the World, Embrace Failure, and Do the Shit That Scares You. It is out on May 28th and you can get it everywhere where books are sold. Amazon, Target, Bookshop. We love to support independent booksellers, so Bookshop.

Kindle, eBooks, all the good stuff. Yeah, it's a book about travel. It'll encourage you to see the world and meet new people, but it is also a book about travel and encourage you to see the world and and meet new people But it is also a book about empowerment and reminding you that you are so much more capable than you think you are And I'm so excited for it to be out in the world and folks. She's going on tour. Yes She's going on tour. So come into a city near you too. Yes, ten cities starting May 28th We're going to New York Washington DC Ann Arbor, Minneapolis, Chicago, Seattle. I'll see you in Seattle, San Francisco, LA, Dallas, and Boston.

And I can't wait. It's gonna be so fun. I love you. I am thrilled for you on a good day, ecstatic for you on engagement day. And I am so excited for everybody to read this book. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for to read this book. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me, Fran.

Love you. Thank you so much to Casey for joining us. Please buy her book, You Deserve Good Gelato. It is very good. And if you need a little taste of Italian, summer Italian gelato, her book is the perfect answer to that, especially if you're not able to go to Italy right now. She's just an amazing person, an amazing creator. We have so much

in common, her and I, and we have very similar journeys. Please support her work. It's just really fantastic and we just love seeing women succeed. Go buy her book, go support her. Thank you so much as always for joining us. We appreciate it and we'll talk to you later. Bye bye. Ciao. is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields, associate producer Tamesha Grant, research by Ariel Johnson, audio and video engineering by Alyssa Medcalf, marketing and operations by Karina Patel, Amanda LeFeu, Elizabeth McCumber, Masha Bakhmakiyeva, Taylor Cho, Kaylin Sprinkle, Sasha Bonar, Claire Karonen, Darrell Ann Engman, and Janelle Reisner, promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolf, and theme music by Jonah Cohen

Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100k team and community for supporting this show. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100k, our guests, and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com. com.