Financial Feminist - 167. Overcoming Imposter Syndrome with Ashley Stahl

Episode Date: July 2, 2024

Ready to level up your career and personal brand? Tune into this episode of the Financial Feminist podcast, where Tori sits down with Ashley Stahl, former counterterrorism pro turned entrepreneur, and personal branding expert.  Ashley shares her incredible journey from working in national security under the Obama administration to becoming a leading expert in personal branding and TEDx coaching. With nearly 9 million views on her TED Talk and a podcast ranked among the top 100 mental health shows in the US, Ashley's insights are not only inspiring but also actionable for anyone looking to make a significant impact in their professional life. Whether you're a business owner, aspiring entrepreneur, or someone eager to enhance your career, this episode is packed with valuable advice and real-world strategies that will help you elevate your game. Visit ashleystahl.com/TEDx to learn more about how Ashley and her team can help you write and book your TEDx talk. Read transcripts, learn more about our guests and sponsors, and get more resources at https://herfirst100k.com/financial-feminist-show-notes/167-overcoming-imposter-syndrome-with-ashley-stahl/.  Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz. Special thanks to our sponsors: Thrive Causemetics Get an exclusive 10% off your first order at thrivecausemetics.com/FFPOD Squarespace Go to www.squarespace.com/FFPOD to save 10% off your first website or domain purchase. Hill House Visit hillhousehome.com and use the discount code TORI at check out for 15% off. Bossbabe Subscribe to The Bossbabe Podcast on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform to level up your business this year. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I think that's one of the most painstaking questions people can ask. It's like, we spend 90,000 hours of our time on this planet awake at work. It's almost two thirds of our time awake. It makes sense to me that we need to get an answer on like, how do we want to be using that time? Because if you hate your job, chances are you kind of hate your life. Like it's not very fun to hate everything you're doing. Like it's too much time going out of not being happy. Hi, financial Feminist. Welcome to the show.

I'm thrilled to see you as always. If you're an oldie, but a goodie, welcome back. And if you're new here, my name is Tori. I fight the patriarchy by making you rich. I'm a New York Times bestselling author of a book also called Financial Feminist that's available wherever you get your books. And if you're on Spotify, it's available right in your Spotify app, probably for free if you're a premium subscriber.

We've helped 5 million women save money, pay off debt, start investing, start businesses and feel financially confident. And today on the show is one of my all time favorite guests and a friend of mine in real life. This is her second time on the show and we loved her at first episode so much we had to have her back. Ashley Stahl is the founder of Wise Whisper Ghost Writing House, where she has helped more than 40 changemakers write their TEDx talks, and 39 of those clients make it to the TEDx stage.

As a counterterrorism professional under the Obama administration turned entrepreneur and international bestselling author of the book called U-Turn, we talked about this in our first episode, she's passionate about helping others share authentic wisdom and stories that deeply inspire their audiences. With nearly 9 million views, her TED talk has raked amongst the top 100 on the internet. And her show, The U-Turn Podcast, has raked amongst the top 100 mental health shows in the United States. Her most important message is this, don't do what you love, do what you are. We talked about a couple of things in this episode. Imposter syndrome and all the ways

it shows up to derail us and the power of a personal brand really getting to what lights you up as well as how to advocate for yourself in the workplace. We also discussed finding your content and creative niche, especially if you're someone who's like, I don't know what I want to do. There's so many people out there doing this. How do I navigate all of that? We're talking about it today. So without further ado, let's go ahead and get into it. all of that. We're talking about it today. So without further ado, let's go ahead and get into it. But first, a word from our sponsors. How do stop losses work on Kraken? Let's say I have a birthday party on Wednesday night, but an important meeting Thursday morning. So sensible me, pre-book a taxi for 10 p.m.

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about like the things we don't consider. and we just start blaming things based on performance. Yeah, meets the eye. That's a good one. Huh? Put that in there. But you did see green there. Yeah, you write that one down. He is blind, but now he sees. Exactly. Tori, like why do you have a full time business? It would be so much more fun to just talk to you and be entertained with you about all of our problems. I am so excited you're back on the show. You were one of our favorite guests. I still, I actually, people ask me like, what podcast are you listening to? And I'm like, honestly, sometimes my own. And the episode I go back to is the episode with you. Because it's so

impactful. And if you guys haven't listened to the first episode as we're recording the second, please go listen to that. It's a good precursor. But what have you been up to since then? I think the last time we talked to maybe was a year and a half ago. Yeah. Well, first of all, isn't it wild how much we need our own podcast. It just shows me truly because sometimes you get imposter syndrome, maybe, maybe not. And you're like, am I providing value? And then it's like, listen to your own thing. But yeah, so much has happened. The short of it is forever ago in my 20s when I worked in national security. I know we talked a little bit about that on the last podcast.

I got this award. It was like one of those 30 under 30 things, but for like security people, so it's kind of like a nerdy publication that's like, you're making achievements in the national security arena, you know, and you're under 33 years old. It was 33 under 33 or something like that. My dad flew out and I ended up getting a TEDx talk referred to me because of that. And I was like 23, 24 years old. And I just remember back then being like, Oh my gosh, how am I going to speak in front of people? I've never spoken on a stage of my life. And now I have this TEDx situation, which I was grateful for, but terrified. I found somebody in the administration, I was working in Obama administration, not for

him direct, I was working at Department of Defense, but I found one of his speechwriters and like, can you give me some tips because I'm about to mortify myself in front of and it was a big TEDx was like 4000 people. And he gave me this little structure and the talk ended up going viral. But over the years, I always felt like I need to redeem myself with myself, because this talk is not an example of like, who I am or what I can do. And I gave another one in 2019. That one hit the top 100 on the internet. And I started telling all my career coaching clients, you've got to do one in 2019. That one hit the top 100 on the internet.

And I started telling all my career coaching clients, you've got to do one of these. So I started helping people write like outline talks, like, oh, you have 10 sessions with me, use a few of them on this. This is just a no brainer thing. Then I started referring them to somebody that could book them for TEDx talks,

like pitch them, get them booked. I saw the woman book every single one, all 40 of my referrals. And then we put it in house. And now I have a whole agency and I'm just like TEDx lady all of a sudden, not affiliated officially with TEDx in any way, but just a lot of people who want to write one and book one have been coming to find me. And it's been a really intimate, interesting experience to get to know people on the level that I have.

And I never would have calculated what it's like for people who are investing in this because I would assume they're not gonna be scared to like get on stage for a TEDx talk when they've exited five companies and whatever they've done, you know, written in New York Times bestseller like you have, like, it's the whole gamut. But people are nervous. And it's just a reminder, like nerves never end no matter how much you achieve. So yeah, since we last spoke, I've literally written over

67 TEDx talks and booked nearly all of them. And I am just a personal branding machine. That's the last thing you saw me. That's amazing. Well, I feel like this is a perfect just dive straight into the conversation. I do feel like, you know, I am, you know, I have a pretty lengthy resume at this point. I'm very proud of our accomplishments at HFK and proud of what I've done personally. But there is something about a TED talk that feels even for me who could get up right now and speak about 10 different things and knock your socks off. There's something about a TED talk that just feels so serious. Like, of like, oh, this is my moment. And I and to your point about like, you know, TED talks going viral,

there's plenty of TED talks out there that you know, Ted talks going viral, there's plenty of Ted talks out there that no one's ever seen. And then there's some that, you know, you think of like Brene Browns, right? That changed the course of her entire life and career. So I get that even I imagine like I'm a similar person to a lot of the folks you're working with where yeah, I'm not scared to get on stage. Although a lot of people are, but there is a level of a Ted talk that, that I would be nervous about because it just feels kind of high stakes. A hundred percent. And it's, do you know, it kind of is if I'm it's it's it is,

and it's not right. Like you could view it as another thing. I think it just, what makes it high stakes is people know the opportunity that exists if you do it right and so you know, it's like I've been telling people number one you want to memorize it because When you member and I hate offering that because it feels kind of forced But the thing is a lot of TED talks or anything from and I when I say Ted I mean TEDx because I know that the TED brand is pretty much invite only. And then the Ted X brand, you know, which is a license from them, you can pitch yourself and

secure a talk. And there's, you know, hundreds, if not thousands of those events. They're hard to get, it's tedious to get, but it's very possible to get. And we've had a really flowy time with it at this point. But people say like, okay, well, it's, you know, 10 to 19 minutes. If you look at the Ted channel, you see short ones, long ones. I always tell people if you're going to do it, write a shorter one because you're getting the same personal brand value as you would doing a long one. Why are you writing 19 minute talk? That's six pages in Times New Roman 12. 19 minutes. I do a kind of a rule like 115 words a minute when I think about the structure of something being written. So I tell people like write a 10 minute one because that's

no more than three pages typed. You can do that. Like, and if you get a yes, if you book a talk, I've talked to the bookers and they're very like, well, they don't see it as a difference if you're pitching a shorter talk. If you have the talk already written, they're not going to dispute it. If they like it, they're going to say, great, keep it as it is. They're not going to say, this would be great if it was longer. And you get about three to six months out. Like if you get a yes from a TEDx event and you're pitching yourself, they run three to

six months out. And so you have plenty of time to memorize three pages. And once you've memorized it, it gives you the space to get out of looking for your words in your head on stage and into being a true performer. And that's the thing. Like, I went to see Hamilton in New York and I was thinking to myself, oh my God, these tickets are expensive. But what you're getting on a Thursday for Hamilton is what you're getting on Friday. People pay a lot for consistency. They don't want you up there at Hamilton channeling your lines this time.

It's a performance. And it's funny, I have offered time to some of our speakers after we write and book their TEDx for them and said, let's go through it. And they are always so surprised by how much I'm like, you need to put a little more juge into your enthusiasm. It feels like such a big stage. You just want your body to be like smaller on there. So I tell people like, don't be afraid to like raise your hands all the way up, like, and go all the way. I mean, I could talk forever about this stuff. I just, the short of it is after 15 years being a business owner, we've all done the stuff, right? Tori, like you've done the books and the things and they're

all heartfelt. Like in theory, that's the goal is to like care about what you're doing. I have written more than 600 blog posts for Forbes. I've probably provided more than a hundred blog posts to other platforms. I've probably been on 20 to 50 TV coverages. Nothing has done for me what a 12 minute TEDx has done. And so for me, I'm like, why are we all pushing so hard in our businesses when there is a one and done, set it, forget it 80 20. And I say that respectfully, I don't say that like throw it up and don't care. I say care so hard and then step back and let it do the work for you.

That's what good investments of your time, money, energy are supposed to do. I guess I just heard you on the investment topic, but you know what I mean. We're just diving right in. We got to take a step back. You and I are business owners who already understand the importance of getting out there, doing things, showing up. I will say as a quick side note, as a theater major, as someone who did theater showing up and I will say as a quick side note as a theater major as someone who did theater growing up I was a hundred percent more likely to get a role in an audition if My monologue that I had prepared I knew in my bones

Because then you're just nervous about the thing you're not nervous about dropping a line Right, and that sounds like the same thing, but it's very different. You will be nervous, you will be excited before you do anything. But if you know, you know your material, that's never going to be an issue. I have been in auditions where I have shown up and not known my monologue very well, or I memorized it the night before. And the difference in your nerves, I'm not as confident. Anyway, it's know your shit, memorize it, know it up and down. So let's talk about for people who might be business owners, might want to be business owners,

or who are just figuring out like, why is personal branding important? Let's talk about that. Like you've said at its worst, a personal brand is delusional, which is such a great, like interesting statement. Break down like the power, a personal brand is delusional, which is such a great, interesting statement. Break down the power of a personal brand, and especially for women who might not feel confident in themselves, who have that little bit of imposter syndrome, who maybe do have

these wild dreams of doing a TED Talk or writing a book or speaking on stages. How do we get there? Yeah. I say it at its worst, it's delusional because like think about like Tinder Swindler inventing Anna. It's like we and we are sensitive to that. Like how many people rent a Lamborghini back in like 2015 to like do their Facebook ads and pretend it's their Lamborghini. Like look at what I've created.

You can have it too. It's like it's just it's not the best of personal branding. But here's what I learned working in national security and counter-terrorism is if you look at politicians of the past, and I'll say no names, but anybody could think of anything, right? Think of a political scandal that you know all too well. Usually, whether it's a senator, a president,

political candidate, they bounce back just fine in no time. They're back at it, they're getting their speaking fees. They're doing whatever they're doing in their career after being Senator President, whatever. The victim spends decades repairing who they are and their reputation. They are known for so long as like the whatever person, right? That this happened to them. Monica Lewinsky. Yeah. Yeah. So here's the thing, right? Create your brand or people will create it for you. And the world will create your reputation for you if you have not done the diligence of creating your reputation. It doesn't mean being an authentic. It means putting honest communication out there. And you know, on top of that, people don't realize like Yelp, for example, I don't

think a lot of business owners know that somebody can create a Yelp account for your business. You don't even have to be the one that does it and review you. So they can go create your brand on Yelp, like a random stranger who doesn't like you today. So I don't say that to spark any fear, as much as to empower people to say like, okay, I get to create this and I get to control the narrative and it's time that you don't let any Tinder Swindler vibes come get you. When I think about like what I'm creating now, so my business called Wise Whisper, and it's interesting because I think about all the personal brand agencies where for a long time, and we saw the emails touring anybody listening to this that started a business

or even if you thought about it, you know this exists. It's like the giveaway and like, you know, you're not really building a brand, you're just like tricking people into pressing a blue button. And they don't actually want to hear what you have to say so you have the perception of influence but not the actual influence and you know people talk about like it's all about who you know. I do think it's also like who knows you and I don't mean that from an egoic place. I mean that from like have you really connected and shared and like provided value people know that from you and And so I've really

worked hard in the past year to build something that is the shortcut for people taking the long cut. Like I'm trying to curate a business where we are not serving people that are in Tinder swindler energy, say that five times, that Tindler, swindler. And I've been really trying to ask myself, like, what does it mean? Like, and a question I ask people all the time is like, how do you want to make people feel like what are some words that are representation of that? And a deeper question for anybody listening, and I know a lot of people will think of this sort of question with TEDx, but I actually think about it more, which is personal branding is what do you seem to really

understand about the world, about life, about your work that you want other people to really get? And how would the world be different? How would people be different if they really got it? You know, and what are the pillars of content that you need to be providing to help people get it, you know? So that's just one facet of it, but I will say personal brands, you can pivot on top of them. So I think it's something that people who don't even have a business, don't even know what they want to do in their career, don't realize how powerful it is, that it can just carry them. So you know, a lot of people will say, how do I stay relevant?

I want to make a pivot. I've been doing fitness and now I want to do fashion and all my people are going to stop following me or all the people aren't going to listen to me because I worked in a bank for three years. And what does that have to do with fashion? I don't even have followers or whatever. But when you build trust with people on any topic, they'll come with you on the other. And granted, some people aren't going to have the interest. But I had a conversation with my friend, Andrea Cratter. She was talking to me about relevance. And we realized that relevance is

resonance. Like when you are relevant for somebody, what's happening is that you're deeply resonating for them. And in order to deeply resonate for other people, you need to resonate with yourself. Like you need to feel that deep sense of belief. And we've all been there before, like I imagine Tori, like all your social media posting, you know when you put your heart into a post

and you get met usually, like you see people feel your feeling. So it's like that made you relevant in the social channel, right? The resonance. So when people think about making a pivot, not knowing who they are, how do I make sense of my brand?

I always point people back to like, don't forget the importance of your own resonance. Don't just do this because it's a strategy. Do you feel this in your bones when you're speaking it and sharing it? I love all of that. And I also want to highlight, I think if I'm a listener who isn't a business owner, or who doesn't want to be an entrepreneur, I'm going, what's the point of a personal brand though?

Yeah. Talk to me about that. Okay. So I think everybody should have one. And we've seen it all before. We've seen like everything from your mom's cat to like your neighbor's armpit having a personal brand. I don't know if I'm exaggerating, but it feels true. It just feels like they're everywhere. So here's the thing. You don't have to have a business. You don't have to know if you want to have a business. You do need to ask

yourself, where do you think you provide the most value? What do you like to talk about that you know is a topic you could commit to? And when you do that, when you create an audience, whether it's on Instagram and here's the thing, I think the Internet is like a bunch of islands. There's like the TEDx is an island. It's a powerful island, right? I wrote a Forbes column for a lot of years. That's an island. TV is an island. Podcasting is an island, whether you guest on a ton of them or you have a bunch of episodes. It's an island that people can visit, they can experience you. And the question

is, and it's almost kind of ties into our last episode we recorded as around core skill set and like career pivots. It's like which island meets your core skill set best. Like if you hate video, obviously we do need to care if you eventually want to start business or eventually want to have a certain type of career where your ideal customers or whatever's are. But in the meantime, if you don't really know the answer that you don't even know you want to have a business or brand, at least being able to ask yourself what topic do I want to share about and what platform is using my core skill set in the way that you and I discussed, Tori, in that last episode about career clarity and pivots. Because I knew for some people,

it's like TikTok is great because they're soundbite people. They're very good. And I say that not in a demeaning way. I think it's very impressive. They can get something across quickly. They know how to do it on TikTok. Instagram for a long time, it was about being aesthetic and being a good writer, right? All these platforms change over time. TEDx is if you're a good writer. And by the way, I used to tell my therapist all the time, I wish I could write talks and not give them because I hate how my body feels and everybody's looking at me. I mean, who likes it? You know, I mean, some people do. But yeah, you like I love that for you, Tory. I just raised my hand. No, like being on a stage is where I feel most comfortable. I love that for you so much.

Maybe that makes me a narcissist. I don't know. I just I love it. It's where I feel most comfortable. It's actually, ironically, I hate showing up I just I love it. It's where I feel most comfortable. It's actually, ironically, I hate showing up and like doing branded videos. It's like one of my least favorite parts of my job. That's so funny. You're not in Well, there is a healthy level of narcissism. We all have to have a personal brand narcissism is a spectrum. But for the people who are like, I don't really know what the point of this for me. Here's my answer. The TEDx talk that they gave, gave me a five-year spokesperson deal. It gave me five book deal offers. It gave me a speaking agent. It put me on a speaking tour. I tripled my keynote fees. There's at least one to $2 million of revenue for my business tied to it. Forget the business side of it. It created mysticism in my life. What happened was I put my energy out and instead of being in masculine energy, which is

not a bad thing, we have all energies, right? Like the trademark of an evolved person, and I'm not like a spiritual woo person, but I love this stuff still and I respect this stuff, you know, at its best, well-intended, harnessed masculine energy is in pursuit, right? It's going outwards. So that's what we're doing in our day-to-day life, in our career. We're pushing, we're doing, we're executing. But feminine energy is such a warm and cuddly little blanket for your career, so you don't even need to know what's gonna come to you. But what you're doing is you're putting energy out and it's very powerful in your self-discovery journey. Because the things that came and found me from my

TEDx talk being SoFi's spokesperson for like almost four or five years, I would have never thought of that myself but it influenced my career. It made me think differently. It gave me new ideas and it used a lot of my time in the best way. I really enjoyed it. So my point is you don't know what you're going to attract, but you know that by putting energy out, you are contributing to this mystical sense of things coming to find you and people like a whole force field of people out there thinking of you and thinking of opportunities for you. Better not you. And you get to just sit there and receive response to that and become a filter. And I think I can't recall if we talked about this, I think we did about lily pads in your career. And we talked about I don't

know if we did. Yeah, we did. I talked about like the first lily pad is like people that think everything's fine. And then the second thing, second lily pad is when people kind of swim on over and they kind of do the work in my, the zone of my book, U-turn, which is about getting clarity, right? And working in your zone of genius. That lily pad is super cool because then you're doing work that you're not forcing yourself to be someone else. People notice talented people and it looks, it's easier to be talented when you're doing what you're supposed to be doing. Like if anybody puts me in an operations role, I'm going to flounder quick and not look very talented.

Put me in a writing role. People aren't going to believe what they see. So it's like, I know my zone of genius. I'm on the second lily pad. Your life becomes a filter system. Yes, no, yes, no. Do I want this to I not? So when you put your personal brand out there, you don't need to know what you want out of your career.

You do need to know what topic you wanna speak on or share from. You do need to know what island of the internet matches your skillset. And you do need to trust that you're inviting energy back at you. And that is a part, I think, of the human experience that is so beyond business

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You just gave so much information. That's so good. So I think the natural next question for a listener is, I want a lot of things. How do I determine what path to take? Or the flip side, which I hear a lot, which is, I actually don't know what I want. I don't know what I want to do. I have certain dreams or I have certain like, but I don't know what I want to do. Yeah. I think that's, you know, even just that first episode we recorded about career pivots and like, my book writing that there was so much soul in that because I think that's one of the most painstaking questions people can ask. It's like, we spend 90,000 hours

of our time on this planet awake at work. It's, it's almost two thirds of our time awake. It makes sense to me that we need to get an answer on like, how do we want to be using that time? Because if you hate your job, chances are you kind of hate your life. Like it's not very fun to hate everything you're doing. Like it's too much time going out of not being happy. So I would say when it comes to personal branding, kind of going back to the relevance resonance piece is like,

well, what do you resonate with right now? And I think that, you know, one thing having written so many TEDx talks for clients so far I'm finding is out of like, we have about 30 on deck right now. Out of that 30, there's probably two clients that I try to filter for this. They just don't have as much of a body of thought on things. So I'm doing a little more lifting on the writing side on my behalf. I'm happy to do it, but I would say in retrospect to those types of clients, like I wish you were doing, you know, because I'm following their lead. They

want us to, I'm helping them brainstorm, but if they want us to do a talk on leadership, because they've been an HR executive for 15 years, who am I to say, eh, you know, maybe you want to do it on cats because you love your cat so much. I don't know. You know what I mean. I would advise somebody that if you're going to pick a topic, pick something you really have a lot to say about.

And I think one of the most vulnerable things in personal brand and the most important things is saying something that you actually believe is true and is original thought. So for example, I remember early in my career when I was a career coach because I was at that for almost 15 years after leaving national security and before now just you know running an agency but in my career coaching land I just remember all these years thinking okay how do I change my mind about what I want to do? How do I share what I actually have to say? And I remember the first blog post I ever wrote that I had original advice

in. It's not to say that anything I wrote didn't have original advice, but I was playing it safe. Like, here's my three steps for salary negotiation. Like, they're kind of indisputable. It's not like it's what everybody's saying, which by the way, when it comes to branding and having your own voice, the best people I think I've followed to learn from aren't always like so original in the one thought that they have to say. What makes them original is that they're curators. Like someone that's like, I've read 27 books on this thing and they can pull all those bodies of work. It's like, you know, Terry

Real in the relationship space says this, Esther Perel is gonna say that, this person's gonna say that. They can present all the bodies of works and then chime in with their thought on the body of those bodies of work. That makes you a powerful brander, that makes you a powerful content creator. So a lot of people are like, I don't know what to say, I'm like then curate, like collect information and have a take on it and don't be afraid to have a take on it That's the bare minimum But it's also about how you express yourself, right? Like yeah, I talk about salary negotiation I have courses like hiding in the bowels of my internet pages like somewhere and

I talk about salary negotiation and one of them and it's like I talk to my students and I say talk about the number like you're ordering a sandwich at Subway like do you want pickles do you want olives like it's it's neutral like yes I want this yes ask questions from your Subway order energy you know obviously I'm pretty basic ordering from Subway all the time but you know don't hate you know point being, it's like that's what made it original is the stories or the lens through which I looked at it. I might have been giving a negotiation tip, but I was looking at it through like a Subway lens.

Like, so it's also your elements of storytelling that make you different. It's not about having a totally different approach to everything. So I remember I had my own formula to come up with an elevator pitch. And I still use it to this day, which funny enough, the speech writing formula I learned from somebody in the president's speech writing team, I still use to this day, it's like 15 years later, and all my viral stuff comes straight from it. So the oldies sometimes are the goodies. So, you know, I always look back and say, look, that was the Ashley that had no idea what business to start, just knew a thing that was working for her. And to this day, 15 years in the business, I still think

that method I came up with is the best that I've come up with. So if you're sitting here now and you don't have a business, you don't have a platform, don't discount what you already know. Don't have a belief that you need a platform in order to be credible with what you have to say. It's really about you playing the game and I do think personal branding is a bit of a game, but I also think it is one of the highest forms of self-expression because the internet has the power to multiply you in ways that you can't do alone. So you might as well pick your island

and put your voice on it and remember that you have permission to change. You can course correct, but as long as you're sharing content that you resonate with and you feel like you've got horsepower behind. Like for example, I'm really into wellness, but I really don't know enough about the supplements I'm taking to like create a wellness page and like give advice. So just because I'm into it, I'm like, that sounds like a lot of content I can't easily have squeeze out of myself, you know? So I think it's asking yourself what do you have a lot to say about and remembering that you can think later about how you want to change that. You can add new content pillars

into your main set of content and you could pivot over that way, right? So instead of posting five days a week about this one thing, that thing becomes three days a week and your new thing becomes two days a week and then it becomes three and then it takes over. So it's really just about creating an ecosystem for yourself that holds you through your pivots. And as you stay relevant, because you commit to that resonance and you change what resonates for you, change what feels like purpose for you, people are willing to come with

you because you are a curator. You are providing value. And I'll never forget that day I shared with that editor my elevator pitch steps. That post was the most viral post I ever did. And it ended up getting picked up in Asia and put into like 30 languages All over the internet and it was like, oh my gosh, this is the permission and validation I needed to remember that your original thought you don't need put the pressure on yourself to be original all day long that makes Artists want to die a little bit inside but You can continue to be a curator and consume as much

as you create. And I also want to piggyback off of what you just said, which is like, I think the other common thing I hear for women, especially who want to be business owners or want to teach they go, well, I'm not an expert. I'm not I don't have the PhD. I don't like I haven't written all these academic papers. And I'm like, here's the thing. And this is what I love about your curation. It is probably not shocking to people that the information I teach you can find almost everywhere. Like, and that doesn't make me a scammer that it makes me a smart business owner to be able

to teach things that you may have heard before, which is how to save money, how to budget what a Roth IRA is. But my package is different because we're doing it in an inclusive, feminist, accessible way, right? Where I'm also going to tell you when I don't know things. I'm the first person, if you ask me a question and I don't know it, I'm going to say, hey, I don't know that, but I will get back to you with an answer. Right? And so I feel like that is one thing too that I want to debunk that is like the part two that I can hear somebody saying it to your response, which is like, okay, great. Like, okay, but how like, I'm not an expert and I need to be an expert.

And that's the imposter syndrome kicking in. And I think especially for women, as we've been told, you either do it perfect or you don't do it at all. And it's, that's just not true. Like, yes, you can curate, there's value that you can add, even without, yeah, the six different master's degrees and the, you know, different editions of your book and all of that, like you have value in what you teach and what you give. If even if your resume isn't the longest resume.

Well, I mean, people pay for momentum, right? So like I was saying before, it's like my age seeks to be the shortcut for the long cut people, right? Like you have a Nobel Peace Prize winner, they're busy working and they're like, yeah, this TEDx thing is useful. I just don't have time for it. Oh, Ashley's team can do that in four phone calls for me. I have four phone calls, right?

So for you with your platform, it's like your packaging is designed to get the information to somebody in a way that creates more momentum in their life. And, you know, I've had some friends that their revenue isn't up yet, or they're kind of like what you're talking about. They don't really want to have a career, but they do want to have a brand. They have something they care about, they want to say, they see the value of that, which I think is kind of indisputable at this point. I think it's over 90% of recruiters Google you before they hire you. Wouldn't it be nice to position yourself as an authority on different outlets and for that to show up as a bigger salary offer?

I think yes. So I think a lot of friends who don't have the income to buy services like what I'm doing, I say to them, you can absolutely do what I'm doing for yourself. You can write your own TEDx talk. You can go get yourself booked. It just takes a lot of time, you know, and it's just tedious. But do you want to do it? And so for the people listening that are not experts, pick a topic you're into. Like, I joke you not. I can't believe I said I joke you. I shit you not. This is how I actually talk. But shit you not, Tori. If I didn't have a career coaching platform, I would have had a platform about friendship. And that's not like something you can really be an expert on. Like,

that's pretty like, I have a lot of friends and I'm pretty sure they think I'm great. So I'm going to talk about it. But the thing is, the question that you ultimately need to answer, and it's not one you can answer, it's one other people answer that are your people, is, is this helpful? And when people hire you, they're not saying like, what is your pedigree or, you know, and I think about my boyfriend, he has a fund called Necessary Ventures. And he, you know, he's very much in that venture world that like your credibility matters. Like whenever he's working from home in my living room, it sounds like Shark Tank in my living room,

like people pitching him all these ideas. And it all does sound very like stamp of approval, like, oh, I was at MIT for five years. I was at Stanford for this many. You hear that stuff. So I do think some industries, in order to be seen as an expert, the pedigrees are a thing. But I would venture to say that that's not the case with most things. Like if you want to be an expert about kindness, and maybe eventually want to start a life coaching business, maybe you don't, maybe eventually you want

to have a certain product and you can add that topic pillar into your brand later, right? Like you don't know, but you care about kindness, go read 15 books about kindness this year and start posting about what you're taking away from the books, what they mean to you. Post quotes that resonated for you. It's resonance, right? I would say by then, chances are,

you know more than about 98% of people about kindness. You've read the science of kindness. You've read the da-da-da-da. And think about books. Like, I mean, I don't know if you felt this way, Tori. I'm sure you did. But I felt like I birthed everything that was living inside of me in my book. And 2020 me, by the time I submitted that thing, had nothing left to say about careers.

It was like, this is what I got to say. So I think people underestimate that when you are walking in to a library, you were walking into an art gallery of people's art and a lot of thinkers, it's everything they actually have to say on that subject. And so I think, you know, we're in a quick soundbite era, which I respect, but I also think we sometimes lose sight of the value of that. So I think anybody listening to this episode today, bare minimum, choose a topic and learn a lot about it and commit to being a curator.

I actually just recorded a podcast episode on my show about a money book I read. I've read your book, which I am in love with and all the lessons that I learned. And I actually thought this is a really cool way to create podcast content, which by the way, my friends, the podcasting space, it's not too late to join as part of your personal brand. Like, I think I read Tori, like there's like 5 million podcasts, but only 470,000 have released an episode in the past, like 90 days or something like that. It's like sounds about right. Right. And if you think and the top 2% of podcasts are getting like, what is it like 10,000 downloads ever? That's also sounds about right. I was gonna say this is where I need Kristin to

pop in and she's probably got the numbers on that. But yeah, it's there's a wild amount of content out there. I mean, we've had previous guests on the show who have talked about like the belief that like, oh, this is the other thing. It's like, okay, I'm not an expert. I don't know what I would do. And also there's too many people doing what I think I want to do. And so yeah, we've had guests on the show before who was like, take a walk through the goddamn bread aisle.

How much bread is there? There are so many options. There are so many different kinds of bread. And you're out here saying, I'm going to deny the world my gift because somebody's already doing it. Like, no, they're not. Cream rises to the top too. Like you, if you're right, if you push right, there's so much room on top. People don't even realize it. Like I think there's just, it's busy. I feel like this is such an asshole thing. It's busy at the bottom. And when I say bottom, I don't mean you've been at it for a while. I think it's busy at the bottom when you don't really commit to your success and you're not really committing to something that is in alignment with what you really have to offer.

And you know, you're asking me for those people that maybe listen to our other episode about career clarity. It's like, how do I know what to offer? I do think if you're feeling super cut off and you don't have an answer, the first order of business is not to grab on to another thing. I think it's to get back to yourself. And that's like what all my writing has been about as a career person for so long.

And I think the best way to get back to yourself is to tune into like, what do you do that makes you feel like you? I feel like myself. I just went to a hip-hop dance class and to be honest I would say I felt like myself there cuz dances makes me feel like me But that class was way too hard and I was like falling over on the side of the class embarrassing myself Usually hip-hop dance classes feel like myself the ocean Makes me feel like myself, you know, I guess I can't twerk as well as I thought that was like a nightmare of a class but

putting my feet in the sand Journal and and I will say I have a handful of friends like my friend Amanda Bucci That girl just makes me feel like me like there's just some people I've come across over the years Even if I have a lot of friends and I'm'm like, you, you do something for me. That brings me back. So I think it's about paying attention to that and realizing life is in seasons. You're going to, some seasons have questions, some seasons have answers. My question season between being a career coach and starting this agency was about three to four years.

And there in that three to four years, everything I was doing was at a small simmer. Like after I completed my book, I was like, I have nothing left to say. I don't know who I'm supposed to be again yet, but I'm finishing out all the things I've become. And I'm slow simmering all of them. Instead of grabbing onto like 40 different ways to scale whatever I have, just because I should. I just said, how much money do I need to make every month? And I invite anyone to ask yourself that question and thank God I'm not a money expert and that Tory is, but how much what's my nut? Because so many people are like, you know, when they think about taking on a side hustle or going part time in their job and giving themselves some space, especially if they're burnt

out, they think, well I can't afford that. I'm like, wait, wait, before you say you can't afford that, do some number crunching and make sure that's a fact because it's usually a knee jerk reaction of like, oh, that's a no versus can you create some space in your life for you to get back to you and let that season be that season so that you start to notice the breadcrumbs? Because when I hang out with those right people, when I do those right things, I start to feel good. And it's kind of like my friends who have a kid. They're like, oh, I didn't really have clarity on a lot of things until I had my kid,

and now everything's a hell no, except for seven things. I think it's the same thing. It's like you have so much love in your heart for your kid. I wouldn't know it. I mean, I just have a dog. But maybe that counts. It's like you have so much love in your heart that suddenly all the things you don't love become so clear, and such a no. I think it's the same with this exercise I'm talking about and its own right,

is like, go do the things that make you feel like you create space in your life for those be in the season you need to be in, slow simmer on the things that are not a full yes for you. And just make the money you need to make to get by and support yourself before you pull onto that next of who you're going to become. Because right now I feel like a wet rag. Like I've rung myself out so fully in the best way. And I feel like I'm really in my mission and my calling. Like I always knew I wanted to help people with stories. I didn't know how it would look. Books felt a little bit heavy on me. And these 12 minute TEDx talks have been the exact use of my skills. And it took me two of my own viral TED talks and all this stuff to finally get here. So I know it's a long-winded thing, but hopefully that's helpful.

No. And what I want to piece out from what you just said is like, none of this happens unless you start. And I keep like saying this over and over and over again on the show. But whether it's starting a podcast, wanting to give a TED talk, you know, getting a promotion at work, not putting up with shit from people anymore. Like, whatever that is, is none of this happens building wealth. None of this happens unless you start. Right. And yet we get so overwhelmed thinking that we need all of the answers to questions we haven't even encountered yet. And to your point about like, I didn't even know that this is what I wanted to do until I did it.

Like, you have to, for me, it was money. Like, the business I launched was not personal finance education through a feminist lens. That's not what it was when I first started. But I had to start and do things in order to realize that's what I wanted to do. So I just, I just see, again, so many women think they need all the answers, think they need to be that expert, think they need to have all their ducks in a row. And the truth is, is like even the most well accomplished, smartest person ever is not going to have all the answers because they don't know the questions yet. But you figure out the questions and the answers along the way by actually starting the thing.

This episode is brought to you by the Boss Babe podcast, a show for entrepreneurs looking to start, grow or scale a freedom based business. Hosted by my friend and colleague, Natalie Ellis, founder and CEO of Boss Babe, who has spent the last decade building businesses and perfecting the exact roadmap to build a thriving, profitable business that creates true freedom of time and money. Every week, Natalie dives into the things every entrepreneur needs to know to be successful, from strategies to grow an audience on social media and build a sales engine in your business to leadership, mindset, systems and more. As an entrepreneur myself, I know how lonely entrepreneurship can be.

And also there's no guidebook, right? Nobody hands you a guidebook for when you have to navigate issues with your team or understand how to build a sales funnel. And that's why the Boss Babe podcast is fantastic for anybody who wants to be an entrepreneur or who is already navigating the world of entrepreneurship. Subscribe to the Boss Babe podcast on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform to level up your business this year. You don't have to figure it out alone. You can start

listening and get the support and roadmap you need to unlock your next level of success. Hit subscribe wherever you're listening shop owner, a pet groomer, a contractor or a consultant. You can get customized coverage for your business. Contact a licensed TD insurance advisor to learn more. Yeah, and I love that you're talking about that. It's interesting because my personality, like, it's interesting when you look at your childhood, right? It's like my dad, I think we talked about like my dad lost all of his money and then I lost all of my money and then I had to rebuild myself. So it was like in my bones. It was in my financial thermostat and I hadn't reset it. I hadn't done my own real mindset work. And because of that, I recreated results I saw. When I look back at my

upbringing, my dad was a very experimental entrepreneur. He lost all his money. He was never afraid of starting something new. So it was modeled for me was like my dad had the wildest businesses, Tori. Like I actually kind of die inside thinking about some of them. They're kind of funny. Like one of them, he's such an emotional being. You have like got all of my dad, ultimate creature. His, one of our dogs died and he was so torn up about it, he created a pet home memorial business. And it was like, pet home memorial. And he had like 17 phone lines. So like, you never knew how he was going to answer the phone, like, pet home memorial, da da da da, you know, like, but my point being he was

never afraid to start things to the extent of creating animal earns, like an animal earn business, like an animal earn business. And so I watched somebody not afraid to start. But what I didn't see anyone do was sustain. My dad is still like, he's rebuilt himself since he lost everything, but never to the extent that he was before. But he supports himself. He does great.

He's fine. But he never got to the levels of success I once saw him at, whatever that meant for him, right? Like the financial success, the emotional fulfillment or whatever it is. And so he's getting by now, but I've never seen him build something, sustain it and create stability. So for some people listening, starting is going to be the thing. You weren't modeled starting. Nobody showed you or maybe they did, but they showed you that it sucks and you shouldn't

do it. And it's a regrettable thing to do. Whatever the message was you got. I saw that starting is no big deal. So for me, it's like, okay, I'll do that. And I have had to learn as an adult to reparent myself into sustaining. And I think a lot of the financial stuff you teach, Tori, is around the long term, right? It's around you make this money now, well, you gotta do something with it to build wealth.

And so the chapter that I've been even in now is, people who are listening now, and maybe they get the motivation to just start and stop overthinking it. I will admit that I am a straight shooter and I haven't been in a startup since like 12, 13, 14 years. Like I started my business in 2012.

So I haven't started another company since then, right? Like I just built my career coaching business from there on out. Building this new agency, hiring talent, like getting things done right. I totally feel like I've had to eat shit so many times and I forgot what that feels like. Like I forgot what it feels like to be a startup person. And in some ways, I think a lot of women in our circle, we get successful for whatever that means, right?

Like you feel good about what you're doing. People are buying what you're providing. You're making real money, whatever success means for you. I think we do forget, it's kind of like childbirth, you know, my friends are like, oh never doing that again, that was crazy. And then like two years later, they're like, I'm pregnant. I'm like, amazing. So I think it's kind of like startups for me. I'm like, I totally forgot what it feels like to manage people and them not to know what they need a lot of guidance. And I totally forgot what it feels like to have an employee drop the ball on something and somebody's upset at me and I'm not dialed in yet. Right? So I

think a lot of people listening, the fear is credible of starting something and I don't, I don't want to poo poo that. I don't know why I'm saying poo poo that. I think that's such a funny expression. But no, it's, we get that the starting is scary because it also, I think, I mean, my biggest theory with all of it is that we are either so scared of failure and we're also so scared of our dreams. Like as cheesy as that sounds, we're so scared of our own success that maybe we're not going to be able to handle it. Yeah. And it's as that sounds, we're so scared of our own success that maybe we're not going to be able to handle it. Yeah. And it's like, no, you will be able to handle

it as you go. I've told the story many times, but like when I first launched my business, I remember looking at people who are now like friends and colleagues and being like, I want that business. I want that opportunity. I want that speaking engagement. I know I can write a book. And I kept thinking like, I know I'm capable of all of this. Why is it not happening? And that was a moment I could have given up. But the realization that if, you know, a genie had magically given me that opportunity, okay, landed me that book deal, you know, got me that business, that was multimillion dollars, I would not have been able to handle it because I didn't have the experience to be able to. I hadn't grown my own skill set and experienced the things I had to experience

in order to be ready for those things. So yeah, I just, I get that starting feels terrifying. Yeah. And it is, it's crazy. I feel wobbly. I feel like, I feel like a little kid right when they get their training wheels off and they're like on the bike down wobbly as fuck and I don't even know I can say It's just wobbly. It's a little like unsure but I am moving and I am committed to excellence and putting magic out there and so I would tell anyone like you do need resilience and You know, I'm working on having thicker skin every day. Do you know what I mean?

Like just the other day somebody in my business that I really appreciate she subcontracted labor out without my permission and I didn't like the subs. Like they got back to a client, the client confronted me, Ashley who are these people? I'm, Ashley, who are these people? I'm like, great question, who are these people? Right? And then I went back to, you know, a person that I really value. And it turns out she wasn't fully wanting to do the work herself. She contracted out without my. So it's like, there is a lot out of your control that is going to feel personal, it's going to feel like it's falling on you. And I think the work is really in saying, how do I be solutions or how do I feel all this, feel it, and then how do I be solutions oriented, right? Like that's this week's thing, right?

Last week's thing, a client of ours told us we were doing one of the most magical things he'd ever seen. He was so impressed by the writing in his TEDx talk, but he wasn't in the mood to pay his payment plan. And it wasn't that he didn't have funds because anybody that says to me, hey, you know, I'm having an extentuated circumstance, I'd say no problem. Let's delay your payment plan by a month. But he just said, Hey, I actually don't really like what we agreed to. Let's change it. It was like, what? I already paid my team. Like, we can't do this. So on my inside, I'm like, that's so unprofessional, like, you know, whatever. But on the outside, it's like, I need to be solutions oriented and not let my feelings of like, wow, I just paid my entire team for this person who's just not in the mood today. You know, I ended up getting on a zoom call with him about it. And he was just like, I feel really vulnerable. Tedx is really scary for me. Okay, I'll pay

my payment plan. He needed like the coddling from me for lack of a better term, Tori. validation. Yeah, validation. And that shit's so hard. When you're like a hardworking entrepreneur, you have so much on your plate. And you have other people that are like, cuddle me, help me, like whatever you're like, I want to cuddle myself. Like I want to go rock in a corner and watch love is blind and eat 17 pints of like, cookie dough ice cream. Like I want to go rock in a corner and watch Love is Blind and eat 17 pints of like cookie dough ice cream. Like I can't. If you're not watching on YouTube, I am my head is, my neck is hurting from shaking my

head too hard. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, literally. Like I just, I have so much empathy for that. And, but I do think the people that rise to the top, they're not just original. They get thicker skin, they don't make other people's missteps about them, because we're constantly creating

our story about who we are. And the narrative I have is that I think I have one of the best writing teams I've ever seen. I think we are providing something that is so special. And any part of this business that isn't excellent I will face the problem and I will fix it myself Even if it takes time Even if I have to slow down my revenue so that I get things right and I don't make as much money or whatever

So I think people just need to to have that commitment everything, not just to what they're doing, but to themselves. And I think a lot of people are scared to commit that much to anything because commitment is hard in life. It's hard, right? It's hard with a partner. It's hard with a business. It's hard with everything. Oh, Tori. I don't want to wrap this up, but I know we need to. So someone who is realizing, okay, I want to grow my personal brand, whether for a business or just to level up my career, just to see what I'm made of. What's the first step? What's that big thing that somebody can do? Any words of wisdom for them? Yeah, I love the questions you're asking me because it's making me think of things I don't

usually share and think about, which is your little gift over there. I think the first step is pick your island. Like the internet's full of them. Do you want to live on the podcast island? I, if I look at the past 15 years of business, I spent one to two years on each island. And then once it was effectively built, like so for example, one year was all about my Forbes column. I'm like, I'm just getting this right. And then once I figured out how to get that right, and it was kind of automated and not like a cognitive load for me anymore, because it wasn't new and I was dialed in. Then I was like, okay, time for me to focus on a new line. I'll keep this island running, but now I can lead with a different island. So pick your island. Is it having a podcast?

Is it being a guest on a bunch of podcasts? Is it being on Instagram? Is it being on TikTok? Is it having a podcast? Is it being a guest on a bunch of podcasts? Is it being on Instagram? Is it being on TikTok? Is it being on YouTube? Is it being on TEDx? Like pick an island. Obviously I'm biased. I'm obsessed with TEDx. I just think there's no place that is more

of a super highway for your brand. Like where else do you have 40 million subscribers just waiting to listen to you talk for 10 minutes or 20 minutes. And you know, my TEDx, like it got picked up by Ted because it did so well. So it, it's kind of like the gift that keeps giving that I didn't realize back at the time, but pick your Island. And the second thing is sync that with your skillset.

If you have a business, you know, your ideal customers consider where they hang out when you're picking your Island, but also consider your core skillset. And if you didn't listen to that episode of me and Tori talking about core skill set, definitely listen because it's all this is about is picking your gift zone of genius. Yeah, so those are the first couple of things I would do. And then third, just like go all in and create structure on your calendar for it. So if your first island is podcast, you're building a podcast, have five hours of non-negotiable time a week with yourself that are devoted to that pursuit. And don't

make anything harder than it needs to be. Like for my podcast, I don't pick my guests anymore. I don't write the show notes. I don't write, you know, there's so many things I don't do. I just show up and connect, which is what I'm meant to do. And I'm sure Tori you're nodding because you're like, yeah, you can't, we can't create things if we're creating everything all day long. And you also need to learn to like give away things too. That's been a hard lesson for me. And that's something I have to remember all of the time is it's like, you won't get to the next place you're trying to go. if you are so obsessed with making sure it's you who does everything. Yep, totally.

You have to hand it over to other people. And there's talent at all price points and people at all price points that can help you all over the world. So don't be narrow and have knee-jerk thinking about hiring help. If you have a full-time corporate job and you're starting a podcast, you might be able to find somebody for a very affordable price whether it's on Fiverr or Upwork or any of these platforms. So funny, Tori, I feel like you've crushed it so much. You have so many different sponsorship situations. Whenever I mention brands, I'm like, am I allowed to mention this brand? She's such a badass. But I do think Upwork and Fiverr are pretty badass for hiring overseas

talent and getting good prices for things. Amazing. Ashley, thank you as always. I have so many questions I'm asking you offline when we wrap about Ted and about everything else that's going on. Where can people find out more about you about Wise Whisperer? Tell me all the good things. Yeah. I mean, right now we're in like a whole rebrand. So many TEDx talks found me that I didn't even have time to change my career coaching site out, but it's at Ashley stall.com and everything about me is on there and it'll be forwarding soon to my new agency site.

And everything about the TEDx offer that we have is at ashleystall.com slash TEDx offer. And we would love to hear from you. And if you come from Tori, please tell me so I can give you a thousand dollars off because I just love to help our people's people. So thanks again, Tori for having me. Thank you. Thank you as always to Ashley for joining us. You can go to ashleystall.com.com. To learn more about how Ashley and her team can help you write and book your TEDx talk, her book and podcast are called U-Turn and you can find them wherever you listen to shows

and wherever you buy books. Thank you as always for being here, Financial Feminist. We appreciate you and we'll talk to you soon. Bye. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristin Fields, associate producer, Tamisha Grant, research by Ariel Johnson, audio and video engineering by Alyssa Medcalf,

marketing and operations by Karina Patel, Amanda LeFeu, Elizabeth McCumber, Masha Bakhmakeva, Taylor Cho, Kaylen Sprinkle, Sasha Bonar, Claire Karonen, Darrell Anne Engman, and Janelle Reisner. Promotional Graphics by Mary Stratton, Photography by Sarah Wolfe, and Theme Music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K team and community for supporting this show. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests, and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com. This episode is brought to you by the Yap Media Podcast Network. I'm Hala Taha, CEO of the award-winning digital media empire, Yap Media, and host of

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