Financial Feminist - 169. The Hidden Tax Affecting All Americans with All Voting is Local

Episode Date: July 11, 2024

In the latest episode of the Financial Feminist podcast, Tori engages in a powerful conversation with voting expert Hannah Fried, Executive Director of All Voting is Local. This episode discusses the critical importance of voting, the deceptive barriers that many face when trying to exercise their right to vote, and the often-overlooked significance of local elections. Hannah brings a wealth of experience from her work on major political campaigns and voter protection efforts, shedding light on the current landscape of voter suppression and disinformation. If you're passionate about democracy, voter rights, and the impact of civic engagement, this episode is a must-listen. Visit allvotingislocal.org to access all of the resources mentioned in this episode, and to make sure you're registered to vote. Read transcripts, learn more about our guests and sponsors, and get more resources at https://herfirst100k.com/financial-feminist-show-notes/169-the-hidden-tax-affecting-all-americans-with-all-voting-is-local/.  Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz. Special thanks to our sponsors: Thrive Causemetics Get an exclusive 10% off your first order at thrivecausemetics.com/FFPOD Squarespace Go to www.squarespace.com/FFPOD to save 10% off your first website or domain purchase. Hill House Visit hillhousehome.com and use the discount code TORI at check out for 15% off. Indeed Visit indeed.com/FFPOD to get a seventy-five dollar sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I think for people of certain kinds of privilege, some of this stuff could feel very far away, right? Just because it's not happened to you doesn't mean you shouldn't care, right? But everybody picks and chooses. And I think we now have to reckon with some of the worst parts of our country, but it also gives us an opportunity to see the very best.

Hello, team. Welcome, financial feminists. Welcome to the show. I an opportunity to see the very best. Hello team. Welcome, Financial Feminist. Welcome to the show. I am thrilled to see you. Thank you for being here. Hope you're having a great summer. I hope you're listening to Sabrina Carpenter's Espresso nonstop. We've probably already posted this on Instagram, but just in case we haven't, every time you

listen to Espresso, transfer some money into your high yield savings account. It's a fun little savings challenge. Every time you hear it, maybe it's $5, maybe it's $10, maybe it's less than that because this is the song of the summer. But open up that high-yield savings account. If you don't know what that is, you can go to herfirsthundredk.com. We'll also link it down below. Open your free account, transfer some money.

Look at that. You've saved a nice little nest egg using Sabrina Carpenter's lovely vocals. Isn't that sweet? I guess so. Okay. Today's episode, we are talking about voting. Now, before you click off, now you probably clicked because you saw the title too, but before you stop listening, we know the election's exhausting. I have been listening to like election and political podcasts for two years, and I've been, I'm tired. I'm tired and it feels like

we're just barely getting started. So we believe that voting is one piece of a larger puzzle of advocacy, but it's an important one nonetheless. And then things like, you know, protecting democracy and understanding your rights to vote are crucial to help maintain fair and free elections. So we're talking today with Hannah Fried,

who is a nonpartisan voting expert. So she is the executive director of All Voting is Local. And prior to co-founding and leading the organization, she served as the national director and deputy general counsel for Voter Protection on Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign. And in 2012, Freed served as the Voter Protection Director for President Obama's reelection effort in Florida. And from July 2009 to March 2012, she was the Deputy Director and Deputy Counsel for Voter Protection at the Democratic National

Committee. Freed served with the Obama campaign's voter protection team during the 2008 primaries and joined the advanced staff for the general election in June 2008. Freed spent several years in federal government service at the Department of Justice and the EPA, and she is a graduate of Williams College and of Harvard Law School. We are talking about the poll tax. And I know you're thinking, Tori, the poll tax is illegal. And you're right, but it's still kind of we're around. So we're talking about how much it can cost to vote and why those costs are

keeping people from the polls. Why certain laws like voter ID can be weaponized to exclude marginalized communities from accessing the right to vote. The importance of protecting free and fair elections, which of course we know, but why women specifically are at the forefront of election security and facing increased harassment and how to advocate for fairer laws around elections. This is one to listen to and then share with everybody in your life. Everybody needs to vote. Everybody needs to register to vote and everybody needs to also understand how your voting rights

could be jeopardized, especially as we get closer to election season. And as always, we've talked about this many times in the show. Elections are not just about the presidential election. I would argue that they're way more about your individual states' elections, your individual counties' elections. So we talk more about the importance of voting, not just in these like big sexy presidential elections, but also in your local elections. So without further ado, let's go ahead and get into it. But first, a word from our sponsors. One of the things people ask me if they want to become a business owner is where do I start? What do I do first? And my answer is you kind of need a website.

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That's gonna stay through me eating food, through me speaking at an event. I love the Thrive Cosmetics matte lipstick crayon that they just sent me. They sent it to me in like every color and I just wore it yesterday for the first time and it stayed. I could not believe how well it stayed. Thrive Cosmetics also donates products and funds to help communities thrive with every product purchased so you know that you're getting good quality stuff while also giving back to the community. Refresh your everyday look with Thrive

Cosmetics, luxury beauty that gives back. Right now you can get an exclusive 10% off your first order at thrivecosmetics.com slash FF pod. That's Thrive Cosmetics, like a cause you support, C-A-U-S-E-M-E-T-I-C-S.com slash FF pod for 10% off your first order. off your first order. I am in DC. Okay, cool. That was, yeah, I was telling Secretary Buttigieg, but I, um, my first time

I was in DC was like last year and it was like the first time I'd ever been. Yeah, ever. First time. Where, where are you from originally? I live in Seattle. I'm in LA right now for some speaking engagements, but yeah, based in Seattle from Tacoma, which is basically Seattle. And then, um, I hadn't done, yeah, my Washington was Washington state and I was in DC.C. So yeah, did the whole monument tour. Did the, you know, did you run a blink in? I thought it was great. Yeah, it was right during World Cup time.

So like the city was fun. Oh, yeah. There are like people with like Moroccan flags and just laying on the horn when they won. It was very funny. It's such a diverse community within and outside the city that you get a lot of it's just really nice energy around stuff like that. It's so fun. Yeah. I didn't spend enough time. So I want to come back and come back and see us. Yeah. I was playing like house of cards, the theme song in my pocket secretly just walking around. Oh, not American president. No, I just rewatched it. No, I know. It doesn't age well with Kevin Spacey, but something about House of Cards, the da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da warms the heart. I was the same person who also ran around Boston with the National Treasure theme song in my pocket. I just watched National Treasure.

For the first time. Yeah. Okay, hold on. Pause the interview. Now, did you see National Treasure 2 Book of Secrets? No, I've only seen the first one. So we we had done a bunch of sort of American early American history stuff that weekend. It was Memorial Day weekend. And at the end of the day, we were like, Oh, we should just keep it going. And so we watch national treasure.

It is a great movie when you're sick. Like it's the perfect and I mean, with the most respect, like it is the perfect. Oh my gosh, I'm sick, but I need something entertaining, but that I don't have to pay super attention to. It's beautiful. Yes. It's great. Yes.

And then national treasure too, book of secrets. He kidnaps the president. I'll leave it pay super attention to. It's beautiful. Yes. It's great. Yes. And then National Treasure 2, Book of Secrets. He kidnaps the president. I'll leave it there. All right. It's great. It's very fun. OK. You have worked, speaking of presidential,

on a lot of really incredible campaigns. What brought you into the world of public service and specifically elections? Yeah. So I was in law school in 2008. And I was finishing that year. I was about to graduate in June and you know, I say this a lot to people, it was such a great time to be working in politics. The end, just the energy. I mean, it was so dynamic and

exciting and I think I lucked out in terms of just like my age and phase of life that I was in. And I wound up getting on the Obama campaign and I worked on campaigns for years, a long, long time. Yeah. Until I, I would say in some ways I kind of aged out if I'm being honest. The lifestyle is pretty rough. We had Emily-Sussman on the show and she said the same thing where it was like, I love my career in politics and also I'm tired. Yeah. I will say I'm still tired. If we could talk about that, too.

But so the work that I did on political campaigns was mostly voter protection, which is the part of campaigns operation that is focused on ensuring access to the ballot. And campaigns are fun and dynamic and sort of ridiculous and silly environments in a lot of ways. Serious work, by the way, serious business of electing a candidate. But you know, it's just a young and dynamic environment. And also, doing voter protection work was so meaningful because voter suppression is

so much a part of the fiber of the country and to do my part felt really like honorable work. But I also saw its limitations in the context of political campaigns in the sense that, I mean, whatever campaigns come in and then they leave and they're over. And I, you know, over the years I had sort of, you know, colleagues of mine from doing voter protection work, we had sometimes said to each other, you know, somebody should start an organization, somebody, right? Not us, somebody else, should start an organization to focus on, um, the decisions that state and local

election officials make about people's ability to register and to vote and have that vote count. And it was not until 2017 that I, you know, I sort of realized, okay, maybe I, I could be, I could be that person. And a friend of mine who had worked with on campaigns for a long time came to me in the early part, part of 2017 and we were both out of jobs. We weren't working at that point because I had worked on the Clinton campaign and was out of a job and she had been in the Obama administration and was out of a job. And she said, hey, what do you think about starting that thing we always talked about? And so we did. And that's

how I came to be involved with the work that I do now at All Voting is Local. Well, and tell me about that. How is it structured? Who does it serve? Tell me more. Yeah. So we are a multi-state voting rights organization. We're about 50 staff. Two-thirds of our staff is out in the eight states where we work. Our mission is exactly what I mentioned just a minute ago, which is to work with and, when it's necessary, put some pressure on state and local election officials to make the decisions that they do about your ability to register, your ability to vote. Do that in a way that

takes into account the communities they're supposed to vote, do that in a way that takes into account the communities they're supposed to serve, does it in a way that expands access to voting instead of constricting it, and particularly with a focus on communities of color and other folks who have been cut off from the ballot for too long. And here what I'm talking about is black and Latino voters,

Native American voters, voters with disabilities, young people, students, right? That's the work that we do across our East States. And it is really awesome. And I will say real timely. Yeah. Well, let's, the majority of what we wanted to spend our time with you today talking about is, you know, what you're trying to do with your work and largely around voter suppression. So what is some of the most prevalent like disinformation about voting right now? Yeah. So I, oh, let me talk about a couple of trends. The first of these is a tax on voters eligibility. This idea that there are classes of people, categories of people who are voting who should not be, right?

And this is not based on anything real. But I'll point specifically to the example that's been in the media a lot in the last couple of weeks, which is around non-citizens voting, right? This idea that there are maybe lots of people who are not United States citizens voting in our elections and that that is a problem and that means that our elections are somehow not legitimate. And there is, by the way, zero evidence for this. Nonsens can not vote in federal elections. That is already the state of the world in this country. And still, the beginning of May, members of Congress introduced a bill that would have prevented that again, I guess. And I think that we're seeing that kind of

disinformation. And by the way, the results of that is that there is now momentum at the state level to sort of further pass laws that are already on the books that prevent- Or redundant. Right. Exactly. Non-citizens from voting. And what is this really about? I mean, I think it's, there's a bunch of things that it's about, but for us and for the purposes of our work, a big part about this is one, to chill voter participation and intimidate people, right? And to raise suspicions, right? Because when you start talking about non-citizens voting, that is really a dog whistle.

That is really about Black and brown people, Asian Americans. It's the slippery slope to quotes illegal immigrant. Yeah. I mean, and there's a whole sort of political, broader policy dimension to this. Absolutely. But it's all about sort of suggesting that our election systems are tainted and that we need stricter rules, right? That we need to maybe we shouldn't accept the results, right?

And that's, you know, that the first part of that is something we've seen a long time, right? Using the mechanisms of how we run our elections to bring some people in and to keep some people out. I mean, we've had that since the country was founded. But there is now this extra dimension of let's also just cast out on the whole thing. Well, and I think that the seeds of suspicion then allow, you know, the disinformation to continue to spread. Because if you catch a whiff that maybe this isn't trustworthy, it's more likely that you're going to see or, you know, it's kind of like, what is it? I think they call

it the red car theory. You see the red car and you're like, every car is red. And then you just see every red car, you know, it's kind of like, okay, if you hear something about this, and it seems like it might be true, then anything that you're seeing is almost like evidence to back up that point. So it almost convinces you that yes, elections can't be trusted. That's right. And I think that that then becomes the justification for policies that we don't need, right? And that actually then serve to cut people off from the process, from accessing their right to vote.

And it's kind of to your point, if we already have those laws, okay, pass another, I guess, why don't you spend your time doing something else that like, is it redundant? It's already spelled out, we've already got that. You have a lot of other things you can be doing. Let's go spend time there. And it's like with everything, right? That if you are, if you're spending your time on one thing,

you're not spending your time on other things. And in this case, in this case, the other thing, if you actually care about the security of our elections, trust in our elections, good election administration, like we can talk about some other things you might be wanting to spend your time on. But that's not actually the point, right? That's not the point at all. We've moved pretty far in a lot of our conversations around voting, whether it's non-citizen voting or questioning how votes get counted or tallied or raising distrust in election officials

sort of broadly, right? We've moved pretty far from any kind of facts. These are not good faith arguments. And I think we are not well served in treating them as good faith arguments. The idea of trying to tackle this on its, any of this stuff on its merits. I mean, if you are actually concerned about election security, like, let me tell you about some of the steps that state and local election officials take every day to ensure that the voter registration lists reflect

who should actually be voting in the state and that the systems of election administration are secure and functioning, whether it's the testing they do of their voting equipment or the training they offer their poll workers, all of that contributes to a safe and secure election, which by the way is of course what we all want. But like with everything, it's about striking a balance. And it's incredibly important that when we're striking that balance that we're making those decisions based on

what's actually a problem and what's a made up dog whistle. Yeah. Well, and there used to be a literal poll tax that was ruled unconstitutional, but your organization has found that even if it's not blatant, there's still a poll tax that exists for many groups. So can you dive into some of the research that your team found around that?

Yeah, thanks for that. So our data and research team, which is led by Nicholas Martinez, embarked on a research project last year to figure out, can we quantify a little bit better the harm that voters face when voter suppression laws pass? I think, just zoom out for a minute, there's a lot of conversation about how voter suppression laws changes to the way that voting work,

that constrict access to the ballot, whether it's voter ID or lack of funding for elections or cuts to days and hours of voting. There's this idea sometimes that you hear about it around that none of this actually matters and people will point to turnout statistics. I mean, there was a lot of this in Georgia after a very restrictive sweeping bill passed there in advance of the 2022 elections. And there was a lot of like, well, turnout was high, but it turned out actually that the disparity in turnout between black and white voters had only grown since the law was passed. So you got to like poke these numbers a

little bit. They're not, it's all well and good to say, to look at the turnout numbers at the high level. You got to dig in a little bit. And that's exactly what our team did here was to think about, okay, how can we dig in a little bit more and really quantify, put some numbers on what it means for voters. And what they found was, I think, really extraordinary. And that is that it costs a first time voter about $105 to register and vote for the first time, 105,5. Which, you know, whatever. This stuff, you know, how you think about money depends on how much money you have. But $105 is a lot of money for a lot of people. That's about a week for the groceries.

Right. What is the money? What is the $105? What is the, is that, you know, your driver's license to get an ID? Like, what is it? Yeah. So it looks at a couple of things. You mentioned one of them exactly, the cost of getting a photo ID in the states that require it, the time it takes to register, the time it takes to vote, the time it takes to get that paperwork, right? And what we did there was we looked at federal labor and wage statistics to be able to quantify that time. How do we value that time? And so it looked at that, but it also didn't look at everything. That doesn't include gas, right, to get to your voting location.

I think our study also found that the majority, I think, of voters live more than three miles from their polling location. So now we're talking about public transit, we're talking about car, gas, right? So there's a cost of postage. It didn't account for that. So it's $105 plus, plus, plus. Right? And I was so struck when I heard that number because, you know, and I referenced this a minute ago, that's a week's worth of heating, that's a week's worth of groceries, and people should not have to choose. And I think it just puts a really

fine point on what I think we see anecdotally a lot. You got to wait two hours to vote. You know, your polling location, you might not be able to spend that two hours. But to really be able to say, well, $105, that is a choice. That's a choice folks are going to have to make. Well, that sounds like minimum 105. So it's at least that. Yeah, I think it's just, I'm not going to lie, even as someone,

I live in Washington state where I can vote by mail. It's inconvenient. I don't even have to stand in line. And I'm like, OK, did I register properly? OK. And then I discovered that my ballots weren't even getting delivered to me because they had my wrong address. And so there were multiple elections I didn't vote in and I didn't realize it until the day before. And so it's just like,

there's so many barriers to making this the easiest thing somebody can do. And to a degree, the inconvenience is the point. I mean, you, you referred to the poll tax and, you know, I think that's a phrase that makes folks uncomfortable now. The idea that we would still have that when, of course, it has been illegal for now decades. But I think the point I would really make here is that this kind of discrimination around voting is subtle, and it has had to be subtle. And this is a subtle cost, right? These are a subtle series of costs.

They come over time, right? For many voters, for many folks listening to this, these are sunk costs. You already have paid for the ID. You know, you've already done the register, you've already registered to vote. And so they're over time and they're aggregated. And so, you know, it's easy not to have a full picture. I'm so appreciative of the work our team did to really identify that. And I'll say too, you know, thinking about the sort of shift from, you know, overt laws prohibiting

participation to more subtle forms of discrimination and voting from the Jim Crow era. I think one of the things that is really alarming to me now, having done this work for 15 years, is, you know, whatever, this is probably an overused phrase, but the quiet part being said out loud is something we're seeing more and more. There's just increasing comfort in the states where we work from public officials

to just talk about how the inconvenience, right, and more, not just inconvenience, I mean sometimes it's inconvenience and sometimes it's it's quite a bit more than that, right? Yeah. That there is an intention behind that. This episode is brought to you by the Boss Babe podcast, a show for entrepreneurs looking to start, grow, or scale a freedom-based business. Hosted by my friend and colleague, Natalie Ellis, founder and CEO of Boss Babe, who has spent the last decade building businesses and perfecting the exact roadmap to build

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platform to level up your business this year. You don't have to figure it out alone. You can start listening and get the support and roadmap you need to unlock your next level of success. Hit subscribe wherever you're listening right now. Well, let's talk about ID because voter ID laws, you know, get a lot of, well, they should always get more press, but I feel like I'm hearing about them a lot. And it gets brought up as like, it's just having a photo ID that doesn't cost anything. But of course, let's talk about why voter ID laws can be so harmful. And are there ways that we can still verify our identity and protect the electoral process without a voter ID law? has made a comeback. It's made a comeback both in the sense that I think you're referring to, which is that people are talking about it again in a way I haven't seen in a while.

And I think it's great actually, because I think kind of accepting voter ID as a... And when I say voter ID, I should actually really be more precise. It's really photo ID that I want to talk about, because there are lots of forms of ID that people use when they register to vote. And this, I think, speaks to the point that you're making about the built-in security protections we have. There are so many, right? I mean, if you think about the process of registering all the information that you provide,

that you sign an application, when you go in to vote, you state your name, often you're asked for some additional information. Maybe they ask you for your address, so they give you the right ballot, or they ask you to see a piece of paper, utility bill, bank statement, whatever. There's all of these checks along the way. So it's absolutely not the case that it's like a free for all out there. Like anybody can just like show up at a polling place and be like, you know, I'm Hannah Fried. They can't. I'm Hannah Fried and I get

to vote as Hannah Fried. And that I think is really the problem with photo ID is that it's not that I think if you talk to most voting rights advocates, I think most of us would say, yeah, like I don't have a problem with there being security measures in our system of voting, but it is photo ID, especially ones like we've seen in Ohio, which just passed so recently. I mean, it's tipped so far. In Ohio, as of last year, there are only four acceptable types of ID. You can't use a student ID anymore. And I think that, like, why? Right? Like, what are we, like, what is the point of this? Right? If the idea is to ensure that a person is who they say they are, why not be expansive?

I think that it's a solution in search of a problem. There is no problem. And there are so many other ways to solve for it that are just common sense. I wish I would have learned this sooner. It was probably a year or two ago, was that your ballot can often get thrown out if your signature does not match the signature on your ID. We've probably said it multiple times on this show, but I feel like I have to say it again. That's just one of those things that I didn't know. No one sat me down and was like, hey, make sure that when you sign, it looks the exact same as your driver's license. Because my full legal name is Victoria. I have a Victoria signature and then I have a Tory Dunlap signature. And the one of my driver's license is my full flowery, you know, full name, but I often will just sign Tory Dunlap. And so like even knowing that, oh, my ballot can get thrown out if they can't verify the signature,

that blew my mind. Yeah, that is a problem and it's a particular problem for older voters because their signature changes over time. And there's interesting data out of Florida, for example, on this that looks at how this operates differently across groups, people for a variety of reasons, folks with disabilities, right? I mentioned older folks too, right? People's signatures do change. And that's why, again, here, it's not that there's anything sort of inherently wrong

with using these data points, someone's signature, right, as a way of being certain that a person is who they say they are. The issue is that we should err on the side of accepting that a voter is who they say they are. Because for all the reasons that you say, there can be so many good reasons that your signature would change. And the idea that it gets thrown out

just because it doesn't match perfectly does seem pretty crazy, I think, for most people. So I think, you know, it's just with all this stuff, that let's be thoughtful, let's be common sense, and let's do what works for real people's lives. Yeah. So we have our fun little stat that between 2015 and 2021, so what is that? Six years, corporations have contributed $50 million to state lawmakers supporting voter suppression bills. So corporations are giving a large amount of money to politicians known for backing voter suppression laws. How does corporate influence in politics affect voter engagement?

Yeah, it's such a nice question. So a couple of thoughts about this. I think one is that I'll start with something that's positive. I think in 2020 something, yeah, you know, whatever. I'm an internal optimist, but let me start there. Which is that in 2020, major corporations across the country, I think, saw the moment that we were in, saw the sort of moral call to do more and do better. And so they did things like give their staff time off to vote, give their staff time off to be poll workers. You remember in COVID,

there were real concerns about poll worker shortages who are just essential people to run our polling locations. And it was a momentous year. And I think people stepped up in all kinds of ways. I mean, whatever, like Taylor Swift that year, I think stepped away up in all kinds of ways. I mean, you know, whatever, like Taylor Swift that year, I think stepped away from her stance to date and, you know, engaged in get out the vote work. She's always telling people to, you know, register. You know, I think that that's whatever. We all, we all heard that call, right? But, you know, your statistic is what it is.

And I think that what is so disappointing about that is not only do corporations have, especially big, big ones, have that kind of money that I think we're talking about here, they have this big platform. And so they should use it for good. And by good, I mean, you know, spreading good information to voters, helping people vote. But it's also that it's not good for their bottom line for this country to be anything but a democracy. And I think that is and corporations know that, right? I mean, there have been studies of CEOs that have found that the overwhelming majority, I mean like pushing 100%, know that because

it's true that countries that are democratic, small d here, right, have a higher GDP, right? And they also worry that being in an undemocratic, non-democratic state has sort of a diminishing effect on their productivity, on their ability to offer services. So it's not good for the bottom line for us to not be a democratic nation, again, Smelty. And so, you know, I think shame on these folks for donating to something that makes it harder for people to vote, but also like what, where, what are they doing here as business people? This is counter to their own interests at a minimum. What are they doing here as business people? This is counter to their own interests at a minimum.

Well, and a kind of related question to that. We know that the vast majority of Americans do not believe in voter suppression. They don't believe that it's that. So why, this is my existential, even though I have my own answer to this. Why are politicians so fucking hell bent on enacting laws preventing people from voting? What do they have to

gain? And even we were talking about before, some of these laws already exist. So like, why are we doubling down? What's why? Well, you're right. I mean, it is out of step with the overwhelming majority of Americans to make it harder to vote. So this, our research about the cost of these voter suppression laws also found that 83% of people that we were polling support expansive access to the ballot and believe that voting is a fundamental right. And that held true. And I think this part's really important, it held true across party affiliation. Democrats, Republicans, and independents, there was a little bit of variation, but slight.

And so I think, you know, with, I have sort of a couple of thoughts about this. I think one is that cutting people off from the ballot is about power and taking power from people. And it's about consolidating it in a minority, in a few, in a few people who hold power. If you can't get people's votes through your policies, then you cut them off from the ballot. And if you aren't successful in cutting them off from the ballot, then, and this is what we're seeing a lot of now, then you say there's something wrong with our elections and these ballots should get thrown out. And I have spent a lot of time, you know, in the lead up to 2020 and since, really grappling with these questions about the, well, what became known as the big lie,

but this idea that, you know, our 2020 election was not valid. And in the lead up to 2020, that there were, you know, these sort of rumors, this disinformation mill that there was something fundamentally wrong and broken and dirty about our elections and they couldn't be trusted. And I think it took me a long time. It took me until really after 2020 and after January 6th to understand what was going on. Because with voter suppression, there's something sort of linear about it in the sense that you end Sunday early voting with the intention of depressing turnout in communities that use it, black communities, for example, sold to the polls on Sundays, communities go and vote together, right? And black turnout goes down, right? That's cut Sundays, black turnout goes down, right? And there's something linear

to that. It's hideous, but you can sort of like, there's some logic there. Election denial, right? Denying the legitimacy of elections seems so chaotic, right? Like what is it set out to achieve? And I think maybe there's some thought there that spreading this disinformation about the legitimacy of our elections might benefit some political actors and not others, maybe. But I think what

I came to understand after January 6 was that election denial puts us in a freefall and that ultimately if you are about taking power, it turns out that in this country, just like everywhere else, there might not be a bottom to what people will do to get that power. And I think that was a really profound moment for me to understand that that was the end game. And I think it was really, I think it was life-changing. I mean, I think it was life-changing for a lot of people and it was life-changing for me. Nicole Zick Well, yeah, if you say the entire system isn't legitimate, of people and it was life changing for me.

Well, yeah. If you say the entire system isn't legitimate and you, you believe the person or people who are saying that then, okay, anything that happens, you can say, well, see, I told you it's not legitimate. That's right. Okay. So fun. Can I come back? Do you want me to come back?

No, this is half the conversations we have on the show and they're very important. And that's my reaction every time is like a ghost leaves my body where I'm just like, okay, I love it. I will say I will say this is we've talked about a lot of serious and somber stuff because this is a serious and somber moment. And I've got more questions for you too. So yeah, all right. Well, I was going to pivot to something nice. But if you want to keep us in this dark place, go ahead. I was going to talk about election officials. And let's talk about election officials. There's a lot of great stuff to say there. So define it for me and what way do they serve elections? Like,

yeah, who are election officials? Oh, election. I, you know, I will say I really, I miss being, I joke with my team. Sometimes I want to be, I want to go out and be a state director because I love being out in the field because you get to interact with so many people. And some of those people are election officials. And so an election official is the person in your community who is responsible for the nuts and bolts of running elections there. Right. for the nuts and bolts of running elections there. So they have an office and they have a staff. And sometimes it's really big if you live in New York City or you live in Maricopa County, Arizona. Sometimes it's a small office. There are even election officials

who their offices are their homes because they run these tiny jurisdictions. But they do everything from help people to register, to process registration applications, to training poll workers, to setting up polling locations, deciding where they're gonna be. That is the business of running elections.

When you go and you get that absentee ballot mailed to you, or you go to your polling location early vote or on election day, there is a real human being, a bunch of human beings, who are behind that operation. And that's, that's what an election official is. I was Googling election official. I was curious if I could become one. Did what I say track. No, it was great. No, it's more, I'm like, I'm like, how does one become? Well,

my next question is the not so fun one, which is like, your team has seen a huge rise in harassment of election officials. What kind of harassment are they facing? And can you explain the tie-in with women specifically, women's election officials? Yeah, yeah. So about 80% of election officials are women, which is a lot. That's a lot of women serving in that role. And I think in a lot of ways historically, it's been a pretty under-the-radar job. Some election officials are elected, some are civil servants, but it has generally been a job that, you know, people did fairly quietly. And in the last few years, that has really changed. And I think that the attention paid to election officials, I mean, in some ways, it's great,

right? I mean, communities engaging ways it's great, right? I mean, communities engaging, knowing they're there, engaging with them, there can be benefit in that. We do that too. I mean, that's part of our advocacy is just getting to know them, working with them. But there has been a, just I think,

an unprecedented spike in threats, harassment, intimidation. I mean, just really ugly stuff. Some of it very much misogynistic because of the statistic I mentioned before. And, you know, it's all part of this heightened environment around voting and election administration that we've been talking about. And I think it is, has always been a job for which people deserve to be greatly appreciated. It is even more the case now. I think the statistic is something around four and 10 election officials have reported threats

and harassment. That's an alarmingly high number. And we're seeing the effects of that, which is that election officials are leaving their jobs. Yeah, you don't wanna do your job. I mean, would you? No. On Google's backspace. How do I become in my backspace? Never mind. Never mind. But I do think, I do think that it's really, you know, that's a, that is an alarming statistic. It is, but it's

extremely needed. It is just an incredibly valuable job. And I think we, there are already protections for election workers in state and local law. That's something that we advocate for. We're going to continue to see that grow. And I think that this is not going to be this way forever is my assessment of it. We are in a moment, but we are in a... Right. Let's keep those fingers crossed. But we are in that right, let's keep those fingers crossed. But, but we are in that moment

now and we have to acknowledge that. And I think that that is it is such an important job. Yeah, it's it's it's crushing to be honest. I mean, it's it's really crushing to see the the shift that has resulted in this. I can imagine there's some listeners who maybe aren't as tapped in to politics and you know, the election who are going, why would these election officials be harassed? Like what does this harassment look like? So what are they getting harassed about? Yeah. So this ties to some of what we've been talking about, about sort of disinformation around election administration and the idea that our system is broken, the voter registration lists aren't, you know, are full of people who shouldn't be on them.

People are double counting votes or votes are not getting counted. That vote counting is suspicious and bad, that there's something wrong with the technology we use. I mean, it's all of this stuff. And then, you know, I think this sort of natural next extension of that is like, oh, well, who are the people who are doing that? Oh, it's election officials? Oh, well, okay, you've done something wrong and bad. And so that's what it comes down to. And it ties back to that major disinformation moment that we're in. So when we go vote, if we see harassment, what should we do? Yes. So there's a couple of things you can do. The first thing I want to say about it is that

it's pretty unlikely that you're going to witness that. Although that statistic is high, right? The four and 10 that I mentioned, right? Overwhelmingly, when voters go to vote, they will have a fine experience doing so. I say this as a person who's like whole life is built around like fixing these problems. And still I recognize that most people are going to have a totally fine experience going to vote. And are kind and respectful and totally. You'll go in, you'll vote, say thank you and you'll leave. Your sticker maybe. Do they still do stickers? You get that I voted sticker. That's right.

Your kids get one too. People are feeling especially jolly, right? Love it. Love it too. Love it too. Nobody likes it more than my kids. So there's that. But, oh, and I should say too,

that that's also the case for most poll workers who are people who serve for a day or two, help set up a polling location. Those are the people you interact with when you go vote. There are people who give you a day or two, help set up a polling location, right? Those are the people you interact with when you go vote. There are people who give you that I voted sticker, right? And then there's election workers too. And as we've talked about, these threats are real and they are prevalent.

And still you are not super likely when you go to vote to see this happen. But let's talk about what you can do, right? Number one is the first thing I would do is, and I've volunteered in a lot of polling locations, so I, you know, I know the drill, right? This comes from experience. There's always a person in charge of a polling location. There's an election official who's more senior, who knows what's up. And the first thing to do if you see something like that, whether it's voter intimidation or intimidation of an election worker in the polling place,

is go find that person and say, hey, I want you to know this thing is happening. Can you help deescalate it? And they have deescalation protocols. They know when to bring in somebody to help deescalate further if it's sort of beyond what they feel like they can handle. There are folks there who know how to deal with exactly that. And certainly in this moment that we're in where these threats are heightened, that kind of training has, I know, only gotten better and more robust. The second thing is that there is a US Department of Justice hotline that you can call and I'll provide that number here. And this, you can use this as a voter, you can use this as, based on your own experience, if you're having a problem voting or if there's an issue like this, you need to report. And that's 1-800-253-3931.

So that's an option for you too. So there's, no one should feel going to a polling location that there's going to be a situation that is going to be so scary that they can't vote. There's protections in place. That's just, that's always been part of voting. And it's certainly the case now. We had Amanda Lippman on the show. I don't know if you know. Yeah, she's fantastic. And one of the things we talked about that I knew was important, but she just, you know, fully, I was fully on board after that. There's so much, let's call it hoopla, there's so much hoopla around the presidential election. I get it, right? It's the like sexiest election. But what ends up happening then is that all of the local elections that do have more of a, they make

more of a difference in your everyday life. You just don't think about those as much. And the example she brought up is, you know, some counties electing coroners and then the coroners decide cause of death. And like, who would have thought of that? And like, I didn't know that before I talked to her. And so talk to me maybe about, of course the importance of voting,

but the importance of voting and the elections that aren't gonna get the press and maybe you haven't heard of any of the candidates, but actually make a difference in your day-to-day life. Totally. I mean, I am a voter. I live here in Washington, D.C. And as you may know, we do not have a lot of representation in Congress. And so our local elections is what we're all about. If you care, as I do, about city services, schools, trash collection, right? I mean, all of these sort of essential services that impact exactly the day to day of our lives, that's where the action is.

And I'll note too that election officials, and I mentioned this previously a little bit, some are elected, right? And so getting involved, we can also talk about how a person can become an election official, but knowing who your election official is, whether it's electing board of elections members or, you know, county supervisor of elections, this is the case in some places, right? They use different names, but it's all basically the same thing, right? That's the person- Sheriff's are elected positions.

Lauren Ruffin Sheriff's can also be elected. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki Yeah, at least in our community. Yeah. Lauren Ruffin These are positions that impact your day-to-day life. And in the case of the stuff that I do, these are the people who impact your ability to vote. So get involved in voting for them. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki Yeah. What can we do in our local communities to ensure that constituents don't have to face barriers in registering to vote, can vote, and maybe you even want to run? How do you think about that?

Yeah. So we've talked a lot about the hardship of the last few years. But one of the things that is an opportunity that comes from this hardship is that we cannot ignore the threats to voting, the threats to our democratic norms. They are in our own backyards. And that is so hard, but also so amazing. I think for a long time, for a very long time, I think for people of certain kinds of privilege, that some of this stuff could feel very far away, right? Just because it's not happening to you

doesn't mean you shouldn't care, right? But everybody picks and chooses. And I think we now have to reckon with some of the worst parts of our country, but it also gives us an opportunity to see the very best. And that is, I think, for me, very motivating. And I think if you are a person who's listening to this and watching the news or whatever, and you're like, oh my God, like, I feel pretty fucked. Right. I was just gonna say everything's fucked. Yeah, everything's bad. Everything pretty fucked. Right. I was gonna say everything's fucked. Yeah. Right. Everything's bad. Everything's fucked. But you don't let me tell you some of the ways you can channel that energy. Yeah. Love it. So one you got to register and vote and like bring your

friends, bring your mom, bring your aunt, bring your uncle, like bring your people. Everybody's got to register and vote. Other things that we can do to support voting and voter rights. Yeah. Well, okay. So that's the thing, right? Let's talk about that. Um, so registering and voting. Yeah. Sorry about that.

Very important. Two is you should be a poll worker, right? You can actually go to our website, allvoterslocal.org and it's forward slash get involved. And that will list out lots of options for how you can engage. We have information about how to register and vote. We have information about how to get involved in the ways that we're talking about,

whether it's being a poll worker, right, or how to get involved in organizations in your community that are doing the advocacy work that we're talking about here. You want to get plugged in, whether it's with the NAACP or the League of Women Voters or Common Cause. There are so many great organizations. If you're like, God, I listened to this. I listened to this woman talk about this thing and I feel now really

like I want to get involved in it. How do I do that? Allvotingislocal.org forward slash get involved. That's how you do that. I also, the other thing my team would be real mad at me if I didn't do was plug. You all wait. You can give with your money. You can give with your time and you can give with your money. Tons of great orgs. We are also a great org, but there are tons of great orgs. And so I think, look, not everything is for everybody.

Not everybody is like being a poll worker. Maybe not for me. That's great. Go register and vote. Registering and voting give to an organization that works on voter access issues, right? So there's lots of ways, so many ways that people can get involved. And there is a moral call to do it.

I think I cannot emphasize that enough. Or call and make sure other people are registered to vote. Okay, cool. You can't volunteer as a pollster. Make sure your mom's registered. Make sure your dad's registered. make sure your dad's registered, make sure your grandma, make sure, I mean, there's organizations, I don't know if you all do it at yours, but like literally that you have a list of people and you call them and just go, hey,

are you registered to vote? There's tons of great work or organizations that are doing nonpartisan, get out the vote work. Some of the ones that I mentioned do exactly that. And so check out our website for all those kinds of resources. There are just, there is something for everyone in this world. And this moment demands it. Hannah, thank you for your work. Where can people find you? Where can people learn more about everything you're doing? You can follow us on socials at voting is local and all voting is local. And our website is allvotingislocal.org.

Amazing. Thank you. Thank you for your work. Thank you. This is. Amazing. Thank you. Thank you for your work. Thank you. This is really fun. Thank you. Thank you to Hannah for joining us. You can go to allvotingislocal.org to access all of the resources she mentioned, as well as to make sure you're registered to vote. As always, financial feminists,

we appreciate you being here and appreciate you holding space for these sometimes really tough topics, but that directly impact our personal finances, our rights, and all of that good stuff. So please register to vote. Please encourage your friends and family to register to vote.

Your voice does matter, even if it feels like we live in the capitalist hellscape that we do live in. But voting is one of the best ways that we can assert our voices and our power in our society and in our system. So thanks for being here. We'll talk to you soon. Bye. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100K podcast.

Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristin Fields and Tamesha Grant, research by Sarah Shortino, audio and video engineering by Alyssa Medcalf, marketing and operations by Karina Patel and Amanda Lafue. Special thanks to our team at Her First 100K. Kaylyn Sprinkle, Masha Bakhmakeva, Taylor Chil, Sasha Bonar, Ray Wong, Elizabeth McCumber, Claire Karonen, Darrell Ann Ingman, and Megan Walker. Promotional graphics by Mary Straten, photography by Sarah Wolf, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound.

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