Financial Feminist - 213. How to Travel More (and WELL) in 2025 with Brian Kelly aka The Points Guy

Episode Date: February 10, 2025

Today’s guest probably needs no introduction, because I’m sure you’ve heard of him. The Points Guy, aka Brian Kelly, is joining us live in studio to talk about how he transformed his love for travel and financial management into a platform that helps millions of people around the world. We dive into everything from how reward programs have evolved over the years to the big changes the travel industry has seen since 2010. In this interview he shares personal stories—especially how he navigated the stress of the 2008 financial crisis—and tons of practical tips for anyone looking to choose the right travel credit cards and maximize points and miles. We also cover common travel challenges like jet lag and flying with kids (something I know many of us have struggled with!). Beyond that, we chat about how to be strategic with your travel bookings, why booking directly through the airline can often be better than using OTAs, and why travel insurance is such a lifesaver. If you’re hoping to get more bang for your buck (or points) the next time you take a trip, this is an episode you don’t want to miss! Brian’s Links: Website: https://thepointsguy.com/ How to Win at Travel: https://thepointsguy.com/book/ Read transcripts, learn more about our guests and sponsors, and get more resources at https://herfirst100k.com/financial-feminist-show-notes/213-how-to-travel-more-and-well-in-2025-with-brian-kelly-aka-the-points-guy/ Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz Looking for accountability, live coaching, and deeper financial education? Check out our exclusive community, The $100k Club: http://herfirst100k.com/100K-pod Special thanks to our sponsors: Squarespace Go to www.squarespace.com/FFPOD to save 10% off your first website or domain purchase. Rocket Money Stop wasting money on things you don’t use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to RocketMoney.com/FFPOD. Quince Get cozy in Quince's high-quality wardrobe essentials. Go to Quince.com/FFPOD for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Netsuite Download the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning at NetSuite.com/FFPOD. Indeed Hiring? Indeed is all you need. Get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at www.indeed.com/ffpod. Gusto Run your first payroll with Gusto and get three months free at gusto.com/ffpod. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Travelers, this episode is for you. If you want to travel more this year, especially without completely bankrupting yourself, this is the episode you need. This is one of the most valuable resources on traveling, traveling in luxury places without breaking the budget. We are talking all things, redeeming credit card points for free travel,

how to travel more in 2025, and other tips you need to know before you get on an airplane with the points guy himself, Brian Kelly. Let's get into it. ["Poinskite"] Welcome back financial feminists. I'm so excited to see you as always. I'm Tori Dunlap. I'm a New York Times bestselling author. I fight the patriarchy by making you rich. And this is my favorite thing to do is come into your ears and share some really actionable takeaways

to help you better your life, better your money, and just feel like a better person all around. And if you are down with that, if you enjoy this show, you can subscribe, you can send it to a friend who really needs to hear it. And especially for this episode, because we all know that although solo travel is great, we also love traveling with friends. So if you want to be the person who's also able to travel for free and bring a buddy along, send this to your friend, your partner, your sister, your favorite coworker, so you can start traveling together.

I'm not just saying this because he's a guest on the show and he's a friend. This book is so valuable. And before you even listen to this episode, I want you adding it to your cart because this is the book you need if you're trying to travel more in 2025. This is the episode you need to listen to

if you've been bitten by the travel bug and you're trying to get even more travel in a way that doesn't completely bankrupt you this year. Brian Kelly is the founder of The Points Guy. Yeah, ever heard of it? The trusted travel media platform that has revolutionized the travel and loyalty industries through expert advice, innovative technology, and acclaimed rankings. From his beginnings in finance, Brian has used his expertise and passion to transform

the Points Guy from a personal blog to an unrivaled media powerhouse with over 11 million monthly visitors. I am in that monthly visitor number. A full team of contributors and the introduction of the Points Guy app. Dubbed the man who turned credit card points into an empire by the New York Times, Kelly's dynamic personality, deep industry knowledge, and extensive global travels have inspired millions to make their travel dreams a reality. We chatted all things how to win at travel from how to use credit card points

in their most effective way to get free travel. And no, it is not just for men in suits or people who travel all the time for business. That is the common thing I hear from people is they see me, they see Brian, and they go, well, you travel a lot for work. That's the only way you're able to do it. No, I want you living that luxury travel life,

even if you're not a business traveler and you've never worn a suit in your life. We talk about flight anxiety, especially with a lot of the airline issues that have been going on recently and the tragedy that happened recently in DC. We talk about how to make sure you are managing your flight anxiety so it doesn't cripple you, but also giving you tips and tricks to make flying the easiest

experience possible. We talk about traveling as a family. Everything and anything is in this episode about traveling more this year. So let's get into it. But first, a word from our sponsors. This episode of Financial Feminist is sponsored in part by Squarespace, Quince, Gusto, Rocket Money, Public and NetSuite. Build a beautiful website to get your message out into the world with Squarespace. Squarespace was the first purchase I ever made for my business way back in 2016, and it's still my number one recommendation for business owners or individuals building a website. Go to squarespace.com slash ffpod to save 10% off your first website or domain purchase.

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and get up to $10,000 for transferring your old portfolio. Download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com slash ffpod. Hey, Spotify, this is Javi. My biggest passion is music, and it's not just sounds and instruments. It's more than that to me. It's a world full of harmonies with chillers. From streaming to shopping, it's on Prime.

Hi, Brian. Hi, Tori. Tell me who you are, what you do, and why it's so important. I am the founder of The Points Guy, which is a website that helps millions of people not only travel better, but harness their financial life to squeeze out rewards to make life a little bit more fun. And I think we all need a little bit more fun these days. Especially in 2025, I would like more fun, please.

Ooh, it's off with the bang, that's for sure. It really is. We're recording this at the end of January, and life is already insane. We've lived an entire year in 30 days, 31 days. I think we need to get used to that. as we're recording this at the end of January and life is already insane. We've lived an entire year in 30 days, 31 days. I think we need to get used to that. How did TPG come about? Give me the origin story because I think it's one of the most interesting.

I started my blog and that became her first 100K, but you were one of the OGs back in the day. Yeah. So I started the blog in 2010. I had been working at Morgan Stanley. I started at Morgan Stanley in 07, and I thought I was going to get rich. Working for Morgan Stanley, I was in HR,

but my friends who were bankers at the time were like, once you get VP at a bank, doesn't matter if you're HR bank and you're making good money. So in my 20s, of course, 2008 hits, chaos ensues. Luckily, I never lost my job at Morgan Stanley, but when we want to talk about Sunday's scaries, I was on a team of eight recruiters, and I was doing all the campus recruiting for technology,

and at one point it was me. So I was just so stressed out on Sunday, I would almost want to vomit, because not only would I have to go out and recruit, but I would have to help with the rifts, the reductions in force. So I was living a really stressed out corporate America life and my silver lining was that I got to travel a ton.

And I had an aha moment when my corporate Amex, I called and said, can I get the points from this? And I remember so vividly, Mr. Kelly, you have to pay the $95 membership rewards fee, which most people don't want to do. And meanwhile, I'm spending hundreds of thousands a month on career fairs. I'm flying in 50 students to do interview days at Morgan Stanley on my credit card.

Wow. Paying for their hotels. So within a very short time, this is what I call my points rich cash poor period of my life. I was broke paycheck to paycheck, but banking so many points. And I had been doing points since the 90s. It was a weird thing my dad and I did.

So all of a sudden I'm living this crazy lucrative lifestyle, flying first class. Literally because I did not want to stay in New York because if I went out to a friend's birthday dinner, I didn't, my debit card in New York, because if I went out to a friend's birthday dinner, I didn't, my debit card could not even, I was that broke. Yeah, wow. So I was traveling on points, because it was cheaper than normal life in Manhattan. And after a certain point, all my friends were like,

you do know what you're doing is not normal. You know, like everyone's like, wait, so you're not on a trust fund. You know, they're like, who's the sugar daddy? And... You're like, I am in first class flights, and also I can't pay for anything once I get off the plane. I'm taking a subway to fly Emirates first class. I flew with Madonna once.

By the way, tip people, never take your sleeping pill before the plane has taken off. That day I took an Ambien and I'm starting to doze. We of course get delayed, and the last person that walks on is Madonna. And you're like half asleep and you're like, that's Madonna. I'm dreaming. Who's my childhood icon, the Immaculate Collection. I mean, I would rollerblade in the 90s to Madonna and she was in front of me.

So I was battling my Ambien, trying to take it all in. So, you know, take the pill once the plane's in the sky. Yeah. So when we talk about points, miles, all of this stuff, I can even, I can hear the mental processing that's going on for somebody listening, which is, oh, well, he had this job that allowed him to accumulate all of these points. I am not a business traveler. I'm not in a suit.

I don't have a corporate card where I'm flying 50 kids out all the time. So is this possible for the everyday average person? Absolutely. The industry has changed dramatically. So from 2010 when I started the points guy, you know, it was Amex. Chase hadn't really even launched the Sapphire, which is a game changer. Capital One was essentially cash back. City had a couple random cards.

Fast forward to 2025. We are living in the book I call it the Platinum Age of Travel. I firmly, I'm an optimist in life. I'm thankful for that because we need optimism. But travel is incredible these days. I firmly refute the narrative that everything is terrible. You know, back in the day, they had fine China. Back in the day, they had fine China. Back in the day, you had to be rich, full stop.

You know, everyone was dressed up. Yeah, that's just because elite people were the only ones allowed to travel. And we're not talking millionaires, we're talking like, million, million, million, million. Like a lot of money. Lots of money. So yeah, you had, you know, turkey dinner is an economy, but it wasn't actually economy.

You were paying for first class. Right. Economy class did not exist. Today you can travel the world incredibly affordably, safely. The world is connected like never before with amazing new aircraft. And we're recording this shortly after the terrible crash in DC, but even with that, it had been 16 years before there was a fatal commercial airline crash in the United States. Travel is so incredibly safe.

So I am optimistic and back to your point, but today there are so many credit cards, the banking industry is battling for the consumer. People listening to this podcast, you are wanted by the banks. Even if you're not super wealthy yet, you're probably what the banks call a Henry. You're a high earning but not rich yet, but they want to get you young and they will entice you with signup bonuses, category bonuses, and perks that for a very small annual fee, you could be reaping in an extraordinary amount of value from the ecosystem. So I would argue today, even though there are challenges where the cost of flights in the terms of how many miles

and points you need to redeem, yes, that alone has gotten up. But my friends, this is not a one-sided issue. You can earn points in incredible ways through rent like you never could before. So it is an incredible time, especially for young people who want to build their credit, travel more. And frankly, we're all looking at inflation, many of our job salaries are not going up.

We need to learn how to create value that exists today within our ecosystem. Take ownership, make sure our cash is earning money, and make sure that every dollar we spend is getting us value back. And in America, the US is the most lucrative country in the world. The most competitive when it comes to credit cards, you've got your fair. There's 15 big banks, all with very valuable cards that want your business.

And so when you learn how to identify the best cards and start accruing credit cards, maximizing every dollar you spend, that's where this game can be won. And I firmly believe if you are good with your finances, if you're not going to get into credit card debt by getting a new card, I'm very, very clear with that. You don't win at this game if you are going to get a new credit card and spend more than you would have, get into debt.

But it's an exciting game that still can be played. So if you've been ignoring it up until this point, I highly urge you to reconsider. And it is something again for everybody listening, you don't have to travel for business to do this. You don't have to even own a business. You don't have to be on a plane every other week in order to take advantage of this. You need to eat, you need to pay rent, you need to buy things, all of which we do. Everybody does. And the cost of points and credit cards has been built into our economy in the US.

Yes, there are some vendors that might charge you a fee and, you know, in general, I don't recommend paying just to accrue points. However, I'll say this on the topic of if my vendor charges me 2% to use my credit card, I do it because not only are you going to get points that are probably going to make that break even, but the value of credit is protections. Anything goes wrong with that purchase. You've got the backing of a credit card company and I really feel firmly people need to be

educated more on the perks that come along with these cards. My son just ruined a piece of furniture with a Sharpie. And that $1,300 chair, because I bought it within 90 days on the right credit card, the Capital One Venture X, I'm going to get a brand new chair sent to me. For no additional cost. $1,300.

So protection and points. In general, you want to avoid paying that surcharge, but even when you do, or if you're going to get a villa with your friends abroad and they say, wire money or there'll be a 3% fee, pay the fee. Get the double points and the peace of mind, because if you show up and it's a dump or it doesn't exist, if you've wired that money, you are 100%, you're never going to get it back.

What I talk a lot about in the book is cheap can be expensive. Use the right cards, have the right backing, and that's, you know, how you want to travel these days. Before we go any further, let's define some terminology because I think it's really important. And we're going to act like someone's never heard this before. Okay, so let's talk about perks versus points versus rewards. So perks first.

Yes. Well, do you mind if we just start with the rewards ecosystem? So when it comes to a credit card, there are three main types of rewards you can get. The first is cash back. Pretty simple. There's a couple different flavors of cash back cards. You have your ones that have rotating categories that you need to figure out every quarter. That was my first ever credit card. 5% on meals for the first. Yeah, I mean, I was a Discover card. every quarter. That was my first ever credit card, 5% on meals for the first... Chase Freedom. Yeah, I mean...

Yeah, I was a Discover card. Discord Discover, which is a great first card for beginners. And then there's just a straight up cash back. If you want cash back, you can basically get 2% these days. Yep, that was my second card. Yeah, the Citi Double Cash is the kind of gold standard. So you can get 2% back of everything you spend. Solid, put it towards your investments, put it towards a trip, max flexibility. The second type of rewards are co-brand rewards where you're going to get

a card with an airline, hotel, and the loyalty currency you get is in that one currency, the Delta MX, the Chase United card. The Marriott card. So you're earning just a single type of currency, but it comes with perks that can be very valuable, such as check bags and companion passes, elite status, which is now becoming more important to have to spend. But the third type of points that I think everyone should have a transferable points credit card.

Transferable points cards are issued by bank. You earn into a currency that allows you to transfer to a number of different partners, airlines or hotels. And just like you want to diversify your retirement portfolio because you don't want to overextend yourself, one stock goes down or up, could be great, could be horrible. That's what's happening with the airline currencies.

Airlines are changing their programs to the point where the US government under the Biden administration actually started to do an investigation into is this potentially unfair where, you know, the consumers just never know what they're going to get. So these transferable points currencies are the most valuable, but their perks are not airline specific. So you're generally not getting free check bags or elite status, but they have a host of other perks as well, like getting into the credit card lounge or getting a fee rebate or streaming credit, et cetera. So points are the currency that you earn that allows you to redeem, but the perks are the benefits that come along with the card that could save you hundreds or thousands of dollars,

including these days because we can get into this later, but there are no consumer protections really in travel. Airlines have written the rules. The DOT just within the last year stated that when consumers can get their money back, if an airline cancels your flight. But they're not getting- Thank you, previous guest, B. Buttigieg.

Thank you, Secretary Buttigieg. It was general... I do believe he enacted a lot of very pro-customer rules. He got a lot done. We have a lot to do still. TBD on where our new administration goes with that. Like I said before, I'm an optimist and I'm just choosing to hope that they will look out for the consumer.

But basically, credit cards fill a very important gap where the airlines will inevitably let you down. Yeah. And they don't care if you complain on social media, even if you have millions of followers, I'm never going to fly you again. You better... They don't care because they've consolidated so much. There's only a couple major airlines in the US.

I want to yell at United right now, but I'm going to refrain from doing that. So credit cards can provide a valuable, if your flight's delayed, canceled, instead of having to wait in line and beg for a free voucher at the Motel 6. If you use a credit card and you've got to spend a night in an airport, you can get a nice room at the West End or whatever hotel you want, get an Uber, use Resort Pass to go spend your seven hour layover at a pool instead of in a crowded airport. So the perks, I think, are where people really undervalue

the game of credit cards. Yeah, I mentioned this to you before, but I had my phone, I had brought brand new, pretty iPhone 15 before my trip, went to London, someone stole it right out from under me. And I was like, well, that was a thousand dollar phone. I'm out a thousand dollars. No, I was not, because I have cell phone protection. So I got, I think 800, so not the full cost of the phone,

but pretty damn close. And was able to buy another phone. And what's the annual fee on that card, right? Right, paid for it, easy. Paid for the annual fee for a couple years. I was filming once in Iceland. I had a brand new Montclair jacket, $2,000. And I left it in the craziness of filming.

And I just called Amex, no problem, 2,000 off my bill. No questions asked. I cannot stress to you people, everyone, look at your existing credit cards. And if you don't have cards with good flight delay and purchase protection, get yourself a card. And often the cards that do have those have huge signup bonuses and great transfer partners.

So I really stress to people, many people today have a travel strategy from a decade ago, pre-pandemic. The world has shifted, loyalty's shifting, and I think it's critical for people to constantly evaluate, you know, are the airlines that I'm flying serving my needs? Are those credit cards? And the good news is there's so many good ones to choose from.

Yeah. You've mentioned before in your work that you view points almost as insurance. Absolutely. And it sounds like, you know, situations where you can't get yourself out, you know, okay, flight gets delayed, all of that. I also view it as insurance of, I had to make a last minute trip, you know,

someone in my family is sick, I have to leave a vacation early because I don't want to be here anymore. And it's almost like an additional emergency fund, besides hopefully what you've saved in like a savings account. Can we talk a bit more about how points are like an insurance policy? Absolutely. There is a peace of mind that comes from having a healthy points balance. If you're in Europe and you need to come home, a family member's sick,

the airlines will fleece you. Last minute, one-way tickets, they don't care if your family member is sick. There's no real bereavement fares if someone sadly passes. At the same time, while airlines are gouging last minute customers, who they hope are corporate customers that will have to get to that meeting and pay, so fares are really high, there's a beautiful phenomenon that many people don't realize is at the same time, they're opening up tons of award space at the very cheapest levels because the airlines do want,

they want every single seat full and they want to gouge people last minute who are desperate, cash. But at the same time, they'll open up saver level seats to just fill for those using frequent flyer miles. So for people who have flexible schedules, who have points and know how to redeem on partners and use technology, that's another piece. When I started the Points Guide in 2010, you had to be an expert. It would take you months to become like an intermediate level or years to really understand, okay, with my Delta miles,

delta.com used to show no partners. So you used to have to use wonky apps and tools or call and then cobble together all their SkyTeam partner availability. Today there are apps and really within the last three years there's been a proliferation of apps that do it all for you. That like point.me is the premier one. And if you have an Amex or built card, it's free.

It's normally like about a hundred dollars a year to be a member. But what point.me does, it's free. It's normally about $100 a year to be a member. But what Point.me does, it's just like Google Flights for buying a flight. Point.me, if you put in Seattle to Paris, it will scan all your points and possible transfer partners and tell you, you may see the Delta flight for 600,000 miles.

They may have the Air France flight for 100,000 miles. And so PointMe will do in a minute or two all the searching, what's available, hey, don't pay Amex 800,000 points to buy the ticket, transfer to Air France for 100. There's another amazing tool, Seats.Aero, A-E-R-O. This is a tool for people, if you're flexible. One of the best ways to save money traveling these days is by letting the deals shape where you go, especially with points.

So what seats.aero will allow you to do, say your dream is to fly, go to Dubai. Dubai is fabulous and you wanna fly Emirates first class. $28,000 flight. However, seats.aero will let you, if you have the pro membership, you can pull JFK or LA, whatever city you're from, to Dubai and you can scan an entire year and it'll

show you all the dates in the next year that you can fly. So if you're flexible, I do this all the time. I will plan my trips based on the cheapest, best availability. And when you start doing these strategies, your points go really far. When you're getting 100,000 points just for getting a card, when you start maximizing every dollar and you're earning, you know, one of my points commandments is earning more than one point per dollar for everything, which is possible because there are cards out there that give 2x. This is when you have a sustainable way to travel the world. And when your flights and hotels are

free, you can spend that money on the Experiences and it helps you travel better or save that money start paying off the student loans more so you can still travel I know so many people young people these days so such high bills. They want to travel but they can't justify Not paying off these high interest rates, but I firmly believe when you get the points game down, and a positive aspect of getting new cards responsibly is your credit score actually goes up the more available credit you have. So these are the financial, you preach it beautifully, but like financial independence

and understanding how credit scores work. And in the points game, you get rewarded for that. It's like positive reinforcement, like, oh, I'm gonna be maniacal about my credit score. And when you see it start to creep up, you get a card, you pay it off, you get those points, and you can go to Italy with your friends, but then your score's also going up.

So whenever you do get a mortgage in a couple years, you're gonna get locked in for lower rates. And that's why I love this ecosystem, and I want people to pay attention to it. Yeah. And again, for folks listening, you don't have to fly first class, right? It does, especially for the average person, it might take you a while to build up enough points to be able to afford a $28,000 flight with points. You can fly economy to get home for the holidays. There. Okay. And let me also warn you, don't fly first class. I joke about this, but it's kind of true.

Tell me more. Because if you just love travel and you're so excited to get on a plane and you sleep on a plane anyway, if your knees aren't into the stay and coach, because the minute and I trust me, the minute you turn left on the plane. Oh, the moment, the first time I ever turned left, that was such a big day. And you, it's very hard to unsee. Yeah. What, you know, oh, I'm welcomed here.

Truly. I don't feel like cattle being herded. Yeah. So, and it is a curse though, when you taste that, when you open up that Pandora's box of, ooh, I like it here, you know? So, but economy travel, economy flights can be really expensive, especially if you like going to far flung destinations.

You know, if you've got family in India, those economy flights can be thousands of dollars. And actually there's an incredible amount of award space. In my book, I also teach, you know, there's ways to stretch the value of your points through what we call routing rules. So a lot of airline frequent flyer programs will let you stop over Air France, for example,

stop over in Paris for four days, and then continue on to Istanbul for the same exact amount of points as if you would have flown to Paris. Yep, Iceland Air, infamously, right? Yes, they encourage to stop over the Middle Eastern Airlines. So this is a great way where you can kind of get two destinations in one for the same amount of points.

Air Canada, Aeroplanes, another great one. Yep, is another great one. If you want to fly to Asia, Air Canada will let you stop in Europe, go skiing and then continue on the Thailand for just 5,000 more miles. And that's cheap, really. And you can do around the world trips. So that's like more advanced, but it's really fun when you... This miles and points thing, I want people to not just glaze over and be like, this is too complicated. It's really fun when you can dig in and... It feels like a game. It is a game.

And I love the New York Times games. I wake up every day in Wordel. Me too. I wake up. But the game of points is even more fun because you get a prize. Right? You get to travel and not feel guilty about going into debt or having to take from other important areas of your budget. If getting better with money is one of your 2025 goals, and I know it is because you're listening to this show, I need you to stop spending money on things you don't even use.

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Do they just focus on a specific airline? Do they do the more versatile options? Like I have my own opinion about this, and I imagine we share the same opinion. The first thing when you get started is just understand your FICO score. Understand where you're at with credit. And if you don't have a big credit history, which many people don't because we're also taught,

like, credit's bad. Credit cards are scary. Meanwhile, you know, university students, I mean, 18, if you have your parents add you as an additional card holder, you can inherit instantly their lifelong credit history. You can have a credit history that's older than you. But if your parents have great credit and they can even set your additional card to zero

so you don't spend on it, but you can inherit instantly and have your score shoot up. Smart. But understand your FICO score. If you are above 700 in general, I mean, it's sort of fair game. Some credit cards, if you have zero, if you have very small credit history,

you may need to get like a discover card, no annual fee, student card. If you can't even credit history, you may need to get like a discover card, no annual fee, student card. If you can't even get a student card, you can get a secured credit card from a bank where you deposit $500. That's your credit line. Spend and pay it off. Your FICO score, the top twoest factors are paying your bills on time and your debt to

credit utilization. So you just do that for a couple of months, and if you're debt-free, your score will go up dramatically. So when it comes to getting the right card, I'm a big believer in these transferable points currencies. So I would start, you know, a Chase Sapphire Preferred is a $95 card, double points on travel and dining, and that travel category isn't just airlines and hotels.

That's parking, tolls, public transit, Uber, Uber Eats. So it's a pretty wide category. The chase points are really valuable, simple to use program. Or for no annual fee, if you pay rent, the built credit card, B-I-L-T, in full disclosure, I helped start that company, am an investor in it, but there's no annual fee. You can earn points on rent. And because you're

paying what is probably your largest payment on the credit rails, as long as you're paying it off every month, like you would if you sent a check, your credit score will go up and the bill points are really, really valuable. They're super valuable. And let me reiterate, you don't have to pay the processing fee that many rent payment platforms will charge you. So no annual fee card, no fee on rent, and the points are,

now the points guy we value bill points the same as chase points for no fee. So get started there. And then, you know, if you do travel a certain airline, it can very well make sense to get the co-brand if you want free check bags, priority boarding, et cetera. I want to urge people though, just because you fly an airline, it can very well make sense to get the co-brand if you want free check bags, priority boarding, et cetera. I want to urge people though, just because you fly an airline, do not put all of your spend on that airline card.

This is a mistake I see a lot of people making. I live in Dallas. I fly American. I'm just going to get the American card and put everything on it. You're losing flexibility if you would have put your spend on the chase cards where you have lots of other options when it comes time to redeem. If you've got a boatload of American miles

and all your friends are going to Dubai and you're like, oh, I want to fly Emirates. So often people are like, how do I take my 3 million American miles and fly Emirates? You can't, right? Like you've already agreed to have a much more restrictive. So yeah, so having a transferable card and then, yeah, maybe, and the hotel cards are great.

Generally, they give a free night that is worth more than the annual fee. But once again, their base earnings not great. The hotel points in general, they've been watered down a lot. So if you're flying one airline and staying at a certain hotel, having those cards for perks can make sense. But I highly encourage most people to put a majority of their spend on a transferable points card that will open up a ton of opportunities. Yep. And you don't need me saying this listeners, but I completely agree.

OK, as we're rounding out the point conversation, can you give me some of your 10 point commandments? Number one is try not to, you know, pay extra four points. You know, the airlines will when you generally just be aware when you're being asked to buy more points at check-in, generally those offers are not good. Buying points can make sense when you're an expert in a program

and you know how much value you're getting. When you know for a fact you can get more than, you know, most airlines charge like two cents per point. If you can get tons more in value and you know how to use that program. But if you don't, in general, don't speculatively buy points because points currencies do go down over time. Another is don't hoard points. A lot of people have it. There's a psychological aspect to points hoarding. Lots of very smart people that I know do it.

I have a million chase points right now. So, I would just say use points over time. Don't let them just sit. Luckily, your chase points won't devalue as much as some of the other airlines, but their partners over time devalue. So, my main emphasis is put points to good use. Don't squander them right away because you're hearing me say, well, Brian said I need to redeem for gift cards.

In general liquidating points, airline miles are best for air travel, hotel points for hotels in general, but have a plan in place and actively, put those points into use. Yeah. You ultimately wrote this book to save people money and time.

What are the biggest time and money wasters that you see travelers or the mistakes you see travelers make? So this book is so much more than points. I mean, I think the juicy chapters are earning points, redeeming points and perks. And I'm proud of those. That will give you the lay of the land, help you think differently. Travelers today are making mistakes by, I think where they book travel. I think most people are booking through, a lot of people book through online travel agencies. And years ago, they provided great utility by allowing people to compare

and contrast different airlines. Can we like give examples? Are we talking like Kayak, Expedia? Kayak, Expedia. And let me be clear, I'm not anti-OTA necessarily, but I only recommend booking through them when you can get a great deal that you can't see elsewhere. Because what is happening these days

is airlines want you to book directly with them. And if you book through a certain OTA, some are better than others, but certain OTAs, they don't want you communicating with the airline. You're their customer. And this becomes a big problem when airlines change flight times, change the aircraft. You're their customer. And this becomes a big problem when airlines change flight

times, change the aircraft. You're not getting the communication. There's a roadblock. So you show, so many people show up to their flights. Why am I in a middle seat? Six months ago, I chose an aisle. Well, that airline had changed their flight type several times.

If you booked directly, they would have sent you an email, but unfortunately, you know, the email never got to you. But the biggest thing is when that flight's delayed or canceled, this kills me. People will say, or even when there's weather waivers, a big storm coming, airlines will offer waivers saying, hey, just rebook your flights in the future, so if you don't want to fly into a storm.

However, if you booked through an online travel agency, you have to go through that travel agency. Well, you're their customer. You're not a customer of Delta or Alaska. You're a kayak Expedia. And some of those have horrible customer service. Same thing for hotels too, I've experienced. So a flight can be canceled. There might be another flight one hour later. If you book with the airline, one button in the app or the agent puts you on the next flight. Yep.

You're on your flight home. you made it home that night. Often, if you booked through an OTA, they'll say unfortunately you have to call the OTA. You might be on hold for two hours and this happens a lot. Also, people make mistakes and I think it's criminal how the airlines do this, but they still will price 50-minute layovers. No one, if you're listening to me today, never book a 50-minute layover.

I see people doing this on their way to a cruise where if they miss their flight and I don't blame consumers Airlines should not you know with however many delays our air traffic system. I mean delays are a part of life I do not recommend any domestic flight with at least two hour layover two hours to give yourself some padding That's helpful for me. I didn't know that because I'm two hours to give yourself some padding. Because- That's helpful for me, I didn't know that, because I'm like an hour, 15 minutes, that's fine. Yeah, you know, and the problem is these days, flights will be sold out the rest of the, you know,

so if you really need to get where you're going, here's a little tip hack that I do, if I really need to get somewhere, back to the point of points being insurance policies. I book a separate flight later in the day on a different carrier using my miles because one of the best rules that came out of the pandemic was that all the major US airlines now

allow you to cancel your points reservations free of charge up until departure. So you're on one airline, you've got to get to a wedding and if you're not there, you're gonna be- SOL, yeah. So you could book a different flight later that day and if that flight does get canceled or delayed, you've already got backup where that flight might already be sold out,

but you booked your flight. But if your flight goes out on time, just remember you can cancel your flight at all your miles points, taxes back free of charge. So really using points and miles is like booking refundable flights. And maybe you don't do it in advance. That's a lot for a lot of people to handle. But when you're at the airport and you get that dreaded, your flight's delayed 20 minutes, 40, 90, you know what's going to happen here.

Right. There's probably something mechanical. The minute I get that 20 minute delay, I'm already on my phone and booking other options because I know others are going to start doing the same. Yeah. And that's the problem when you wait in line for an hour to speak to an agent, hey, get me to the next... Those agents will say, you know, we can't get you out till tomorrow. You can fly standby on other flights. What you should be doing is just rebooking yourself

on another airline because now with the new DOT rules, you will get a refund for that original flight. So I think people make mistakes booking through the wrong channels. With hotels specifically, you can't earn hotel loyalty points when you book through an OTA. And I interviewed hotel executives and most hotels will put their OTA guests bottom of the line. So if the hotel's oversold, your OTA guests,

you're not getting a room or you're getting the worst room. They're direct booking customers, they make more money. They have to pay 20% to an online travel agency. So when they're looking at all their guests, you're their most unprofitable guests. And most people just don't realize that. So when the price is the same, and many hotels have price match guarantees, so even if you see a cheap price on an OTA, you can just call the hotel, nine times out of ten they're going to match it, or even give you extra. So use the OTAs for pricing. And if you get a bang up deal that you can't find anywhere else, but just understand the

risks that go along with it. And that's what I just, this book to me is educating people on not telling you what to do. Every situation is personal, but understand when you book certain ways, you're for going things. Now I will say in the hotel space, luxury hotels never book direct because luxury travel advisors are the way to go. So there's a network of, you're going on your honeymoon,

you're going to Hawaii. And you might think, let me just go to fourseasons.com, I'm gonna book my beautiful, expensive honeymoon trip and I'm splurging. Booking directly with Four Seasons is awful because top-notch travel advisors, so virtuoso agents, they will give you the same price, sometimes even third night free, plus tons of perks. Plus, the travel advisor business is huge and hotels cater to the top travel advisors. Because think about it, you book

through a top advisor who gives this hotel millions of dollars of business. Something goes wrong, they didn't give you a great room. Instead of going to the front desk and begging, you call your book through a top advisor who gives this hotel millions of dollars of business. Something goes wrong. They didn't give you a great room. Instead of going to the front desk and begging, you call your travel advisor who gives that hotel tons of business. They call the head of sales and say, my client is not happy. You're going to make my client happy. And that hotel, instead of just thinking, oh, I might get one bad trip advisor review,

they're not going, and I talked to hotels, they're like, we do not mess with the top travel advisors because they will wreak havoc. They won't send new guests. So you have the power. I guess in travel, it's about understanding your power and gaining more of it,

looking through the right channels, having the credit cards on your side. The airlines are cheap, but the credit cards will reimburse you for things. So that's where I think people are making mistakes by not understanding where the money is being made and how they can team up with the biggest partners to make sure they're getting treated the best and getting the best prices. Your hack about booking another flight with points reminds me, our mutual friend Janelle, who is also going to be a guest on the show. I was going to Australia and didn't realize the rule that my passport had to be good for at least six months.

So it had not expired and was not going to be expired by the time I left. But a lot of countries say, no, it needs to be good for at least six months. And I had a total panic about it because this was 2022. If I submitted my passport and did, you know, the whole process, there was no guarantee I was getting my passport in time. And so I call her, because she's my travel friend, and I'm like, Janelle, help me out. She goes, here's what you're going to do. You're going to take your miles.

You're going to go book a flight to Mexico that leaves in two weeks. So then you can go to the passport agency and go, my flight leaves in two weeks, because that's when you can get an in-person appointment. You're going to say, I'm going to Mexico, please process my passport. I had to pay a little extra money to process it quickly. And then she's like, and then just cancel your flight. Yeah. Free of charge, everything back. No, I was like, what? This passport attic is so smart. Because yeah, if I didn't get my passport back, you'd be biting your nails. Oh, so stressed. So much stress for weeks. And yeah, if I didn't get my passport back. You'd be biting your nails, praying. Oh, so stressed.

So much stress for weeks. And wondering, am I getting this back in time? Am I even gonna get to go? And I was going with my friend, and so is she gonna be SOL? She can't go with me? Oh my gosh. And yeah, Janelle was just like, book it for two weeks.

There's so many rules in the travel. Like if you have kids and your kid's gonna be an unaccompanied minor, the airlines will issue a gate pass so you can walk your child to the gate. So many parents say goodbye to their kids at security and hope for the best. And there actually have been kids who have gotten on the wrong plane.

So ask the airline for a gate pass so you can accompany your kid to the gate. So many people are like, I didn't know that. So this book is so many of those, what do you do when your passport's stolen? What are some things you should keep in your digital identity online? So if that happens.

So many people don't think about the simple things they could have stored in an iCloud if they need to go to an embassy that will dramatically make your life easier. Email it to yourself even. I have photos of both myself and my partner. And like anybody I travel with frequently, I have all of their photos of the passports in my email.

So if I need to access them, I can. And I will just say on this topic of protecting yourself travel insurance. So I for many years was, you know, I'm fine. I don't need travel insurance. I'm an expert. I have enough miles. I can get myself out of there. But nowadays, especially internationally, I highly recommend quality travel insurance.

You can get yearly packages for several hundred dollars if you travel a lot. But even if you want to ensure you're going on a family trip, got a big villain in Italy, a lot of times you need to pay in advance, non-refundable six months, cruises, safaris, like you're shelling out a lot and life happens. Disasters happen.

Good travel insurance is like 5% of the total cost of your trip. And it can cover you if you get a new job, if someone in your family gets sick. A mistake I see people making is assuming that if something happens to them, okay, the airlines hotels will certainly give me a refund. They won't. When you agree to a non-refundable rate, you know, and in the book I talk about, like, everyone should read the contract of carriage with airlines.

It lays out the rules. And so you should understand when you should protect yourself, insure yourself. Like everyone should read the contract of carriage with airlines. It lays out the rules. And so you should understand when you should protect yourself, insure yourself. It's 5% of the cost of the trip. It's a rounding error and it gives you that peace of mind. And more importantly, when something goes wrong, if you're asking for a favor, it's important to know that. So many people will lash out at airlines, well, my uncle's sick.

You should refund me. Right. And you don't, they would be doing you a favor if they did that. And some airline agents will, but not to jerks. Yeah. So I think having that mentality of understanding when you're asking for a favor, because I watch, I'm such a people watcher in the airport and I'm like, oh, they're approaching this so wrong.

By the way, they don't care if you're never going to fly Spirit again. They don't care. Right. Yeah, I mean, you should be polite to people regardless. Period. But especially if you want something. It's strategically important to you. And if you're ever, one of my tips is hookah.

Hang up, call again. If you're on with an agent who doesn't know what the heck they're doing, and there's a lot of them out there, look, there's always gonna be new employees. Do not keep ramming your head into a wall. Say, gotta go. Thank you so much for your help today.

Appreciate it. Stop, take a deep breath, get a coffee, call back again. Cause you might get the agent who's a veteran. Be nice to them. Hey, I need your help with XYZ. And, you know, don't just like keep going at it. You know, some people think it's like sport to argue with the phone agent and it's...

I'm looking at my dad. It's not productive. You just had your second child. Congratulations. Thank you. Okay, so traveling with kids. How do we do this? I thought I knew everything about travel until I had kids. And then you had kids.

Wow, it's pretty wild. And I have an entire chapter on the book that will take you from pregnancy, baby moons, where to sit on the plane, tips on traveling while pregnant for health and safety. First I will say is I highly encourage if you're a traveler and think that you have to stop traveling because you have kids, you don't.

I mean, I started traveling three months, my kids were, or my son was vaccinated. I felt comfortable. I always do some months, my kids were, or my son was vaccinated. I felt comfortable. I always, you know, do some research, know where the healthcare facilities are. You know, traveling with kids is amazing. And even in the beginning, it's really easy the first year or so.

It's not until they really start walking and on planes where it can be challenging. And even when it is, I'll just say, most every other country in the world is far more child-friendly. The US is one of the most child-unfriendly places to travel globally. I mean, you go to Portugal and they will take you to the front of the immigration line if you have a small child. Italy, they have amazing family travel lanes that actually have few people in them.

They don't just, in JFK, send you to a gigantic line that doesn't move. So, I highly encourage people to travel if they want to. Of course, if you're not comfortable, don't. But it can be very confusing, especially with safety. So I interviewed Leah Chusso, who's an amazing, she's a child passenger safety technician. There's actually certified people who can help choose car seat versus lap. And there's pros and cons to each. So it can be very dizzying. At the end of the day, as a parent, like anything, you've got to go with your best decision and understand the options.

And that's what I try to highlight in the book. But if you're prepared, always bring extra snacks, activities, and most importantly, just try to be stress free. Your kids pick up on you and give yourself grace. The best behaved kids will still scream on a plane. You know, and anyone out there who believes kids don't belong on planes, I hate to break it to you, but a plane is public transportation.

If you are adamant on who can and cannot fly on your aircraft, I encourage you to charter your own. Then you can control the manifest. But baby, if you're flying, if you're going on a bus, on a subway, on a commercial airplane, you don't have that right. And instead of being snarky and assuming the worst, like these parents don't know how to, the kids crying,

it has nothing to do with parenting. Some kids, so instead of just being rude and giving glares, help people, once again, being nice will strategically help you. Even smiling at a parent, helping them lift something. They're already so nervous. They don't want to piss you off and they're just trying to do their best. Yeah. And we were all kids one day, so just have a little grace. Yeah. And I will say too, with your point about, you know,

a lot of other countries being more kid-friendly, I think the culture is often different as well. I think in a lot of other countries, they view parenting as a village, right? It's not just the parent responsibility. And so I don't know if you've seen these videos of like TikToks of like random strangers being like, hey, I'll take your child and I'll bounce him on my knee for 20 minutes so you can go to the bathroom. And then, it's so nice. I've experienced that in the Caribbean,

I had an amazing hotel, the staff, I mean, my son is a ham and he, every hotel we go to, they're, everyone's eating out of the palm of his hand. And yeah, I mean, you're, I'm at a breakfast buffet and the amazing waitress who we knew the whole week, she begged me, she's like, can I please take your son? And like, he's bound, you know, and he loves it. I think it's great for kids, you know,

to experience different cultures and just have it known, you know, different people, different foods. It's like natural. My son, you know, I'm really proud. He's very verbal. He eats a lot of good foods, you know, and he, I do believe him living in an environment

where he's constantly seeing, learning, meeting new people is, you know, setting him up for a successful life. Yeah, I think so too. And yeah, get yourself some good noise canceling headphones and be kind and like, yes, we've all been behind a screaming baby for eight hours. And I agree, it's the worst, but you know who has it even worse than you do?

The parents and probably the child because they're screaming for a reason. Their ears won't pop or they're just in an uncomfortable environment. And yeah, I have so much empathy for parents. By the way, ear popping, always feed your kid if possible and take off or pacifier. And then they also have even for adults, earplanes. So they are game changing. I have to wear them every single time. My ear drum ruptured last year.

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You're kind of given some already, but anything else? Yeah, I think traveling as a family, you know, choosing the right hotels. You want to choose hotels that are child-friendly and some, you know, you can kind of get the hint where it's like, you know, kids only, you know, you can kind of get the hint where it's like, you know, kids only, you know, no kids at the pool or here. There's definitely honeymoon destinations that are like, I don't want to see a child here for my five days.

You'd be shocked. I mean, most even luxury hotels are so accommodating of kids. They really are. I mean, Dean gets, you know, tents in the room and toys, and hotels are really good with having cribs, bottle warmers, like you'd be... And my tip is like leave a lot at home, you know, take the toy they love, take, you know, always have, you know, toys and extra snacks, double the amount you think you'll need, extra

changes of clothes, not just for you, but also your baby. And as your kids get older, and when I was 12, my parents let me plan our trip to the Cayman Islands, which set off this kind of chain of reactions that led me here today and giving responsibility. But for younger and teens, give them responsibility planning on the trip. Even if it goes horribly awry,

I think it teaches kids valuable lessons and budgeting and trying to figure out what information on the internet is to be trusted and what isn't. Yeah. I think you can learn so much. I've learned so many of my life skills from traveling. Yeah. Through the tough moments and- Your resiliency gets built when you travel, 100%. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that's so smart. We were talking about, unfortunately, the flight that crashed and the deaths that happened. I think anybody who has flight anxiety is extremely anxious on a normal day. Hearing something like that is just, I'm never getting on a plane again. How could it happen? Are the systems in place sufficient? So I actually have an entire chapter of the 15 dedicated to fear of flying.

I luckily do not have it, but I know so many people. I've dated people with near crippling fear of flying. And to me, logically, flying, and I have a stat in the book that I want people to hear that it is so safe. It's hard to even quantify how safe commercial air travel is globally, but specifically in the United States, even with this fatal crash,

the one prior to that was 16 years. Think of how many millions of flights a year. And we went 16 years in America. That is incredible to be statistically at risk for dying in a plane crash. You would have to fly every single day for 103,000 years. Let that sink in. I got to interview Whoopi Goldberg in the book who had a crippling fear of flying. She witnessed a plane crash in the 70s.

Funny enough, and many people with fear of flying, it comes and goes at random times. So she was fine flying, and then she had a terrible dream and crippling, crippling fear of flying. She actually used to have a tour bus to take her New York to LA in three days, two drivers, full-time, back-to-back. And it wasn't until she had to do Sister Act in London,

part of her contract was to go. And she had such a fear of flying, she had to charter a private jet with an anesthesiologist. They put her down. They knocked her out to go on the... Oh, wow. And then propped her back up to do that red carpet. That's what they do like with dogs on flights. Oh, good. But fast forward now, she now flies. She bought a home in Italy and she flies commercial. Lovely. And it's not perfect, but she's dealt with it. So there's a lot of different techniques. There's even a service called dial a pilot. For those of you who like to speak to the pilot, you can talk to a certified

pilot for $65, which I've talked to people who say it's great. I interviewed Captain Sully in the book about the logistics, you know, turbulence. It seems so crazy and it seems so jarring, but it's actually very normal. Do you bring up the Jell-ello example? Cause that's the one that's helped me. Have you done that one? Oh my gosh. This was again, thank you. A research paper and by research paper, I mean, TikTok. So it was going all around, especially in the pandemic of anybody who's afraid of flying

and what's going on with turbulence. Is this just like your flight is suspended in jello. So when you move the jello cup around, it can feel jarring, but it's not actually moving up and down, it's not sinking and falling because you're suspended with pressure on either side. So, I mean, I didn't have a fear of flying, but I had really bad turbulence on a flight to Fiji.

And it went on for 25, 30, 40 minutes. And it was like up and down the kind of like roller coaster. Were people screaming. Yeah, and I just looked at the flight attendants who of course were just like sitting there, like it was a Tuesday, and were like so calm, and I was like, okay, if you're freaking out, then I'm freaking out, if you're calm, I'm fine.

And it was like, I kept thinking about the Jello example of just like, you're moving up and down, but the pressure, you're suspended and you're fine. Planes are stood to withstand way worse turbulence. Now, turbulence can be damaging. That's why you really, I wear a seatbelt, even in first class, you know, I make it as long as possible,

but I'm still sleeping at night with the seatbelt. We've seen turbulence is getting worse, you know, whether it's climate change, certain routes, jet streams, along the Northern Atlantic and flying over mountain ranges. There's even a website called Turbly, T-U-R-B-L-I, which can give you peace of mind. It'll give you a turbulence forecast for your flight.

But with fear of flying, you know, it is an anxiety disorder. A lot of people have it. And certainly the social media algorithms today, which, you know, prioritize outrage and craziness, we're being fed an inordinate amount of negative stuff around travel. Right.

Even though commercial travel is so extraordinarily safe. So safe. But there's a lot of other techniques, cognitive behavioral therapy. Yes. I actually interviewed my friend Lays, Lariah, she's at Frequent Flyer, she's fascinating. She lives in Dubai, she survived a plane crash.

She, but she always wanted to work in hospitality and she lived in Brazil and Disney was her dream. And she got her job at Disney in their corporate program. And she just had to learn how to, she's just like, I'm not going to give up on my life. But she used to have to drug herself, not taking my rules. She used to have to be sleeping before takeoff because her flight that she was on. She missed Madonna every time. I know, right?

But she now travels every single weekend almost from Dubai. She flies around the world. She's one of the most frequent travelers I know. And for her, it was identifying her triggers. Takeoff was a trigger. She keeps her mind busy. And then truly she started flying Emirates and it was such a positive experience.

She had room on the plane. She felt like comfortable. And that's why I say like using your points and miles to get that extra leg room seat to redeem for business class. If a lot of people are claustrophobic, the coach cabins are getting tighter. Yep. So, you know, dare I say like frequent flyer miles and points can actually help reduce your fear of flying by giving you more space, more tranquility. But I will say, if you're ever gonna do anti-anxiety meds or any meds, never try them for the first time on a plane. Absolutely not.

And do not mix them with alcohol. All these situations where... We've seen bridesmaids, we know how that goes down. These people who are peeing in the aisle on a plane, and it's almost always because they're mixing. And just be very careful with that. Ready to party! Yeah. With the party! Yeah.

With the best stuff there. The colonial woman on the wing. Colonial woman on the wing of the plane. She's turning better, she's turning better. Something they're not telling us. One of my favorite movies of all time. I will also say, as someone who doesn't have flight anxiety, but actually I do not like flying.

I've done it so many times. I do it so often from work. I would teleport if I could. Oh, me too. I think for me, I have chronic pain. And so if I'm just, especially like middle seat, somebody, you know, no offense, you would be my worst nightmare

if you sat down next to me and coach. Of course, because I'm so broad. And you're tall. And so I was just, it's so hard on my shoulders. I physically can't fit in coats. Yeah, so, you know, as I started traveling more and more frequently, it has just been nice, even if it's just premium

or making sure I have an aisle seat so I can get up, cause I need to move a lot. So, and I also don't sleep on planes. I cannot sleep on planes. And so that has made the whole experience not feel... Great, yeah. Yeah, but I used to stress for days of like, okay, I have to get on a plane.

But being able to at least have your, no, or lie flat or have your own space, like that makes all the difference. And it's not something I necessarily still look forward to, but I flew first coming here, and it was actually the first time, you're gonna be proud of me, the first time I ever spent money on a first class ticket. It was either like a brand had paid for it

or I did it through points. It was the first time I'd ever spent my own cash to upgrade my seat, but it was just like, it's worth it. The flight flew by. Flew by. It's good for your mental health. Yeah. So busy. So like having and just not dreading. I know on a trip, dreading the flight home, when you start using points

and miles and listen up, people are the American U.S. airlines. Delta's nice. Yeah. Start flying the Middle Eastern carriers, Asian carriers. The shower on the plane. Yeah, it's nice. Star flying the Middle Eastern carriers, Asian carriers. The shower on the plane. Yeah, it's insane. Okay, jet lag. Help me out. Jet lag, Taylor Swift, love her.

It is not a choice, girlfriend. Jet lag, I actually learned a lot. I have a whole chapter on travel health, specifically jet lag. It's all about circadian rhythm, right? All about, and light exposure. Light exposure is the number one thing. So jet lag, It's all about circadian rhythm, right? All about, and light exposure. Light exposure is the number one thing. So jet lag, I used to always say,

well, I'm going to take a sleeping pill on the plane. I'll try to get enough sleep, sleep, sleep. I was just trying to get in. I'm a big guy, so I really need seven to eight hours. So I was always trying to cobble together that, but recently I went to Japan, and as I've gotten older, jet lag really messes me up. I'm a dad now, so like, I can't just, I mean, my son's up, I need to be aware.

So waking up at 2.30 in the morning wide awake and then having a horrific day really sort of has become a problem. Yeah. And made me not want to travel as much, but circadian, in short, your eyes have two functions. See and help you and regulate light. That is your key message to your circadian rhythm. Yes. So when you get light, you know, when you take a flight and then all of a sudden

your body's getting these signals like, what the heck? Like, you know, keep getting light, you know, that's what really messes it up. And your circadian rhythm, I mean, it's not just your sleep. I mean, your digestion, your overall health, your circadian rhythm, I mean, it's not just your sleep. I mean, your digestion, your overall health, your circadian rhythm, even tells your body when to absorb nutrients. There's also- When to go to the bathroom.

So when your circadian rhythms off, you can try doing coffee and stuff to grind through it, but it can be a challenge. And in general, it takes one day for every hour of change to adjust naturally. So when going to Tokyo for a week and that's a 12 hour difference, you're, you know, what do you do? So long story short, there's an app called TimeShifter.

I was just going to say that's I swear by TimeShifter. It's the only real look there's so many Instagram ads of take this juice. It's all BS because it's all predicated and there's no certain plane type that's going to like be better for jet lag. It is about, and TimeShifter will give you your recommendations on when to get natural light and when to not. And there are times on the plane where you should, even if you can't sleep on a plane, you can still wear sunglasses on a plane that block light. You can still watch a movie, but not having the bright screen light in your eye can dramatically help your jet lag.

And also prep a couple of days before a flight, you start going to bed a little bit earlier to adjust to the time zone you're going to. And one final tip on melatonin, which can be very helpful. Most of us are doing it wrong. The melatonin you wanna take is smaller dose and quick release. So many of us are taking gummies. The melatonin you want to take is smaller dose and quick release so many of us are taking gummies that take forever to get through your system and like

They don't take it off the plane. Exactly. So short release melatonin at the right times with the right sunlight exposure and Using the time shifter and it'll you can wear it with your Apple watch. It'll tell you okay stop caffeine now Try to sleep on the plane for these blocks. Or if you can't sleep, it's totally fine. Lay back, rest with sunglasses on. You may look like a diva, but who cares? Who cares? And I really recommended people,

instead of just trying to like grind through it, don't be a hero because, you know, and don't drink on planes. That's something that I can't stress enough. Just food and drink on planes. That's something that I can't stress enough. Just food and drink on planes, even in the nicest first classes is not that great. Eat healthy food, try not to drink too much because the meals you get on the ground

when you're alert and less groggy will be far more enjoyable than anything you're gonna get on a plane. And drink so much water. And not to scare you, but deep vein thrombosis, DVT is a huge issue, blood clots, healthy young people. All the time. I don't want to, so if you're ever on a,

get up and walk throughout a flight, especially in economy, if you ever are on a flight and you start having numbness in a leg or anything, do not underestimate it. Everyone, I talk about it in the book, deep vein thrombosis, because young people, it could kill you. It could create clots that get dislodged.

We had a family friend that died from it. So I think the more people know about it, compression socks are great. They're cool, they're comfy, you know, and just moving your legs around, getting up and walking around the plane so your blood's not pooling and sitting and putting you at risk for that clot.

You made my entire life because my partner makes fun of me every time I'm in Europe and I'm like, okay, we have to see sunlight right now. And he's like, we really were doing this. And I was like, yes, a hundred percent. And I use the same app. It works. I mean, sometimes the recommendations are tough

and you know, but you can adjust it. And you're so tired and you're like, I just want to sleep. But like, if you can truly just sleep when you're supposed to for that time. And yeah, I will say, I am so good at beating jet lag because I don't sleep when I'm not supposed to, even if it's impossible. And I get light.

And the one time that jet lag followed me for days was I went to Iceland where the sun wasn't up until 10 a.m. and the sun went down at 4 p.m. I was jet lagged for days and days and days. Usually I can curb it in a day. What has been your best trip ever? Best trip ever? So I go on friend moons with my friend Christine

and we do honey moons as best friends. I've done that, I did that once in St. Regis with my friend Caleb. So we've done it almost every year. We went to, 2023 we went to Morocco. Oh, I haven't been in a while. Yeah, we did Iceland and then Morocco. Did you do a riad or one of the fancy hotels?

We did a riad by ourselves and that was lovely. What month did you go? No, November. Morocco's good like the shoulder seasons, right? Yeah, and it was right after, we shouldn't say right after, it was a couple of months after the earthquake. And so we were going back and forth of like,

should we go? And all of the right back and forth of like, should we go? And all of the right reading we did was like, they really need tourism. So we were like, okay, great. Tourism can be an active, economic, like helping Puerto Rico after that hurricane Maria, they needed tourism. Right.

We went to Australia and New Zealand together. My partner and I have done Europe twice. How do you- I've been to Japan, I don't know. I've been a lot of really cool places. To have successful friendships. I have a Europe twice. How do you- I've been to Japan, I don't know, I've been a lot of really cool places. To have successful friendships, I have a whole chapter in the book in the beginning about like setting ground rules with friends,

because group trips can be amazing, but we've all had the blowout. There are people that I love and I will not travel with them. You will not travel, and it's okay to have those boundaries. How is it successful with you and your friend? Like, do you have a pre-meeting?

Do you agree days that are- Very much so, yeah. Do you have separate, do you have solo time on those trips? A little bit typically, or it's like, we're very clear about like, hey, I need some time. Then it's not you, it's me. It's like, I need time alone. Same thing with my partner is like, I think we both travel really, really well,

but there's times where I'm like- Will you share a room or are you- My partner and I share a room. Sometimes Christine and I will share a room, but we always have at least like part of the trip where we have our own space. Yeah, I think that's really important. But we did two months in Europe together.

Wow. And... No blowouts? One blowout. Ha ha ha! Six weeks in, fight in the streets of Milan. Full drag out fight and it was not good. Was wine involved?

No, I don't think we had alcohol. No, it was just like- Do you laugh about it to this day? Yeah, it was one of those where it was like, it was, we were both like, yelling at each other in the street. I can't imagine. I don't want to get on your bad side.

We worked it out that night, but it was like, it was not good. Yeah. And it's just, it's hard. It's hard. When you're traveling too, and it's, yeah. You're stressed, you're in a new place, you're, yeah, you're digestion.

And it's also like, I don't know if I had ever been with anybody for six weeks. That's a long time. And like lived with them and traveled with them. And it's, yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. But no, I'm, one of my questions for you, and this is one of my final questions

before we do some rapid fire. I mentioned this to you off mic. One of my goals this year, and this is one of my final questions before we do some rapid fire. I mentioned this to you off mic. One of my goals this year is to do more solo travel because I've done, I don't think I've been anywhere outside the US by myself. And I think there's this misconception, whether you're a woman, a person of color, a queer person, that I'm going to be targeted or I'm not going to be safe. And it's definitely true in some countries. So 95% of our listeners are women.

I don't ever want women to not be able to live their life and do incredible things just because they don't have a partner or their partner can't travel with them. So talk to me about solo travel. Just how do they do it? I love solo travel. Before I had my kids, I mean, even now I try to get away a little bit,

but some of my biggest life moments, you have to take yourself out of your environment. You know, when I was selling my business, when my business got sold and I had some really big, you know, I'm looking at two paths here and I need to think clearly. I'm a scuba diver. I love being in water.

So I've been to the Maldives. I was at a honeymoon resort by myself. I've done Bora Bora by myself, swam with humpback whales. If you love whales in the Island of Moraya in Tahiti, from July through October, the humpbacks are there with their calves. You can go whale watching. And it's the only place in the world where if you have the guts to do it, jump in the Pacific and you can snorkel with humpbacks below you, which is just like a life changing,

I'm like a big wildlife guy. Isn't that the island that they based Moana on? Is that that one? Is Morea that? I don't know actually. I thought it was Tahiti. I've never actually seen Moana. Oh, it's lovely.

Yeah, so Tahiti, most people go to Bora Bora, but then Morea is like a smaller, really cool island. It's kind of Hawaii-ish. Humpback whales sound amazing. Humpback whales, it's so. I've heard, I read an article in Travel and Leisure about like people who do these whale trips and it's like. It's amazing, I find whales, my son loves them too now. They're just majestic, they're just incredible.

I saw in the Azores, if you are a whale person, the Azores are in the middle of the Atlantic and it's the pit stop for the whales that go between Antarctica and the North Pole. So it's like an amazing mix. You can go, I saw blue whales, which are the largest animals to exist. Those are sperm whales, right?

The same? Sperm whales are like Moby Dick. Blue whales are like submarines that look blue in the water. They're actually gray. They're humongous. Wow. Back to your question of solo travel. I was like, we can have a separate conversation about whales. like submarines that look blue in the water. They're actually gray. They're humongous. Back to your question of solo travel. I was like, we can have a separate conversation about whales. So yeah, obviously as a six foot seven, you know,

male, I have, I understand. So I interviewed Jessica Nabongo who, she is fabulous. She's the first black woman to go to every country in the world. Fabulous traveler. I interviewed her in this book because I don't have an authentic perspective as a female. And she gave great tips.

I mean, her overall outlook is you'd be shocked. She never once had any issues going to every country, Iraq, Afghanistan. She highly recommends in more offbeat places, get a local guide that you trust, that's vetted. I always recommend signing up. The U.S. State Department has the STEP program, and this is anytime you travel, STEP will register your details.

I was in Guatemala and I actually got an alert from the embassy saying there's going to be political protests that shut down the airport on this day, and it was the day I was supposed to fly. So getting that piece of information from signing up, I left the day before, I would have been stranded for a week in Guatemala. So sign up for the US Department of State's step program.

But a lot of times US, Department of State advisories kind of are just like negative across the board, like don't go. If you looked at their website, you would think that nowhere was safe. Oh, my mom has called me multiple times and been like, you're going there?

And I'm like, yeah, Italy's fine. Yeah. We're gonna be okay. Jessica said to me, she's like, look, stay in hotels when in doubt. If you don't really know a destination, if you have questions about whether it's safe, stay in a hotel, safety wise,

a hotel also will have local ideas where to go, what not to do. Yeah. And really like hiring local guides can be really inexpensive and they know where to go, can take you safely. Did that Morocco, cause I was a little intimidated.

I had never been to. I was in my first trip to Marrakesh, pre points guy, but I had never been to a Muslim country. So it's like really cool to call it to prayer and stuff. It's so different, but then it started getting dark in the Medina. We got lost. These kids were kind of messing with us

telling us to go the wrong way. My blood pressure starts going up and it was fine in the end. But like also don't think you're a superhero and because you're American and that everyone's just gonna like. No, you're a target sometimes. Target and also the US government's not gonna bail you out of jail.

I talk about several cases of US tourists who do dumb things, get arrested. There's this notion that like big, our greatest country is going to come in and bail you out. They won't. They'll maybe give you a number of like a lawyer, but, um, but yeah, so solo travel, I mean, there's so many great female solo travelers out there, um, on, on the internet.

I love Jessica Nabongo. She has a book as well about her travels to every country, but you know, research, local guides, staying at hotels, and really listening to other women who have been there. That's the best source. The government websites are not going to give you the real scoop on the ground. Yeah, and for queer folks, is that good research to figure out what countries? Can I hold hands in without getting targeted? So, you know, people, I go to the Maldives a lot. It's a Muslim country.

On the surface, it's very anti-gay, whatever. The reality is in the Maldives a lot, it's a Muslim country on the surface, it's very anti-gay, whatever. The reality is in the Maldives, when you're staying at a resort, you're in resort-ville. That's like your own little country. They have alcohol, they love gay people. You know, like I got proposed to my ex-fiance in the Maldives and Waldorf Astoria couldn't have been more accommodating

because it's really like your own, you know, I wouldn't have done that on the main island of Malay, right? My LGBTQ friends, I know a lot of people, there's countries with laws in the books. If you don't feel comfortable going, you do have to change your, if you don't wanna change and not hold hands and have issues, then I don't recommend going to places.

I believe it's our responsibility as travelers not to impart our beliefs on a culture. I'm respectful. I personally have been the most amazing countries in the world throughout Africa that have a lot to offer and the people are not hateful. The laws might be hateful. But I will say, I do a lot of work with Rainbow Railroad.

And in Jamaica, it's one of the worst countries in the world for especially trans people. It's a dire situation. So many gay people say, I'm going to boycott Jamaica. How dare they do this to my people? And I don't blame that mentality. Everyone has the right power of your pocket. But when I went to Jamaica and I was in the gullies, like living where a lot of people

live under bridges, the LGBTQ community there said, Brian, please, because I brought it up, I'm conflicted. Yeah. They said, do not boycott Jamaica, because a lot of the issues are related to poverty and just education systems. So by- And probably exposure to- Exposure.

Yeah. And a lot of the LGBTQ people on that island work at the hotels. So they're like, by boycotting, you actually hurt the people you're trying to help. So I respect people's right to not go to countries where you don't feel safe. There are certain Muslim countries

with really terrible rules that I would never, my thing for me is I'm not going anywhere where I'm gonna get put in jail for being who I am. I'm not gonna go on Grindr in countries where I know countries monitor it. You need to be smart. There are a lot of people, even in Morocco, there was a British guy recently who got mugged, killed. You have to be smart. There are a lot of people, even in Morocco, there was a British guy recently who got mugged, killed.

You have to be careful. So I think Morocco is an incredible country with so much to offer. Kind people. But if you're going to hook up, and that's not the place people, right? So if you don't wanna do that, I firmly, and I talk about this in the book, don't go.

But I think by only going to countries with pro-gay laws, you're missing a lot of the people. And everyday people are not hateful. And I do think throughout time, when you meet gay people, that's when people fear them less. So I'm not a big believer in the boycott, but I support everyone's decision to. But I also just urge people people do some research too. I fly Emirates, the Dubai, I have tons of gay friends who live in Dubai. Dubai in general, as long as you're respectful, technically

there are some laws on the books, but like there are out gays vibrantly living in Dubai. Every time I fly Emirates or have someone say, oh, they're executing gays there. And I'm like, it's just not the case. The laws might not be what I would do, but you can be, two men can share a hotel room in Dubai. And then I also recommend stay at Western properties. But it is your responsibility though to understand the laws of where you're going. And I will say this too, even with medications,

if you're on Adderall, a lot of popular medications in the US, Xanax, you gotta be careful where you go. Japan is a country there, you could get put in jail. Dubai especially. So- Even if you have a prescription? Even if you have a prescription. Usually if you have a small amount with the prescription, you're probably gonna be fine.

And most of the time, they're not going through your stuff, right? So, but do your research, especially if you have controlled substances that are prescribed to you. Every country is different. Well, and to do a quick reframe before rapid fire, we were talking about this off mic. I think it's very easy when you live in a country like the United States or Canada, if anybody's listening, it's very easy to just go, okay, well, you know, my version, right? This is what we know.

So this feels like normal. We're having an all out war against trans people in the United States. Totally. I was mentioning to you a woman I met in New Zealand who was around my same age who had no interest in coming to the United States because of gun violence. And so I think it's very easy to make other countries feel other of like,

I'm not going to be safe there or something's going to happen. There are constant, unfortunately, in the United States, not only constant gun violence, but constant violence against women, trans people, queer people. So we're not any better, everybody. The holier than now attitude, I think we all need to check a little bit and how America's the best or our ideals.

Like, you know, it's- Or it's just very easy to like, this is my lived experience. I don't know somebody else's experience. They're targeting gay people. I'm like, half of America right now is targeting gay people. And trans people, yeah.

So, you know, it's, I just encourage people not to miss the bigger picture. America right now is targeting gay people. It's targeting gay people and trans people. Yeah. So, you know, it's, I just encourage people not to miss the bigger picture. Governments are one thing, people are another. You will meet incredible people in places that can change their lives. Imagine people saying, oh, Americans are all Trumpers, therefore I can't go because they hate me and they wouldn't meet someone like you. And you would just say, don't judge me by that. So why would we do the same for other countries?

Totally. You know, it's the people that will change your life. Yeah. You get to meet. When you're a business owner, it requires you to try to predict the future, but that's really hard to do. I can't do that. No one can do that.

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Let's do it. Pre-check or clear. Pre-check. Why? Because it's supposed to be Rabbit Fire now, and ask why. Yeah, well, pre-check allows you to take your shoes off and go through quicker. Clear on its own, without pre-check, you still have to take your shoes off. Yeah.

I'm a double-dipper. I'll take a pre-check and a clear any day. Well, that was the option, but I don't... Yeah, sure. I'm not getting greedy. But actually, the real answer is global entry. Yes. Global entry, I could not live without because it also gets you pre-checked.

And now for families, global entry, your kids are free. Wow, cool. Underrated travel destination, best one. Ooh, I love Guatemala. It's Mayan culture, the food's incredible, beautiful, like Atitlan and Tigua culture. I mean, it's just, and it's just beautiful. Is there a direct flight from New York? Yeah.

There are actually from New York and Houston. West Coast, do you know? Maybe LA? I think LA might have one to Guatemala. Okay. Yeah, really beautiful. There are some safety areas in Guatemala, so you wouldn't want to go to, but the town of Antigua is this gorgeous town, 45 minutes from the airport.

Cool. And just really, it's like a spiritual place. People are incredible, food's incredible. You put it on my list, I love it. Best place to travel with a family. I mean, I'm gonna say Europe, Portugal, Italy. I was in Ibiza last summer at the hottest restaurant. You went to Ibiza with your Dean?

Yeah, and we were at the coolest restaurant at 10 p.m. and a woman was nursing her newborn and no one's batting an eye. Love it. Best place to travel solo? I think Southeast Asia, Thailand. I don't think, I think Thailand is made affordable, cool, lots of people backpacking and stuff there.

We just talked about compression socks, but definitely. Definitely. Can I take my shoes off on a plane if I have my socks on? Yes, yeah. Make yourself comfortable, but if they stink, just be mindful. Try not to put them on the seat, in between the seat, touching your neighbor, but especially in business class, I always take my shoes off. Yeah.

I said this at your party last night, but if you are taking your shoes off, I'm going to stare right down the barrel. If you are taking your shoes off and you don't have socks on. Yeah. A lot of people have a feet thing. Your toes are out on the plane? Yeah. So gross.

And also just like, you know, the flip flops and shorts. I see it all the time. Like planes are cold people. You're going to be freezing. Like where are socks? Neck pillows, yay or nay? Yeah, of course. I actually will bring neck pillows.

So a lot of times when you fly first class, they don't even give you pillows anymore. So a lot of times when you fly first class, they don't even give you pillows anymore. So if I need to sleep on a flight, I'm not banking on the airline. I'm a big pillow guy. So neck pillows everywhere, even in first class. Other than medication,

best hack for sleeping on a plane and I'm asking for a friend and the friend is me. I work out. I do a great workout the day of the flight when possible just to get my circulation going. And I'm like, wake up early, exhaust myself so that when I'm on that plane, I'm already like tired. Because I'm like you left to my own devices.

It's bad. It's tough. But the fast acting melatonin too, is also low dose fast acting melatonin. I'll have to my own devices. It's bad. It's tough. But the fast acting melatonin too, is also low dose fast acting melatonin. I'll have to check it out. Cause yeah, I've been doing the melatonin random off Amazon and I think it kicks in four hours late. The key is fast acting.

Yeah. Trip you're looking forward to. Antarctica. I actually was just invited. My dad has been just not able, and he's just, he's so excited. I didn't think I'd be able to do Antarctica for years because I want to bring my sons,

especially it's really hard for me to travel without my kids. Yeah. And now on National Geographic, Linblad, they have a journey where you can fly from Chile to Antarctica. So you avoid the Drake, which is the crazy passage, which can be topsy turvy.

I'm not bringing kids on that. Yeah. So now you can fly to Antarctica on a military plane, get off and then just cruise on the ship around the inlets and they allow certain cruises, kids as young as one. So I think this fall I'm going to take my parents, my two boys to Antarctica to play with some penguins. I love it. Worst flight experience or worst like person you've encountered on a flight? Give me the tea.

Well, my first, worst flight, there was the first, and one of the few times in my life, I've actually felt like I was gonna die. I was on a regional jet flight from Toronto during a snowstorm landing at LaGuardia. Oh. And it was bouncing up and down, two aborted landings and straight, and I'm like sweating.

And then I was sitting next to an off-duty pilot who goes, yeah, this pilot doesn't know what he's doing. Oh, don't say that know what he's doing. Don't say that to me on the flight. And you can't even see the ground. So we're about to land and it's raining on January. It was like, it was the first time I was like, I think I'm going to die. You're like, it's over.

And that was in 2008. So having a really bad experience, I can tell people is it puts everything else in perspective. Totally. It's hard to really get me going on a flight. On planes, I've seen some crazy things. I've also had a lot of really fun. I flew once next to Danny DeVito on a flight and he was so fun. He, and we were taking off and he needed something from the overhead and he actually stood up

on his seat and was like hanging from the overhead and we're on like taking off and the flight attendants are so starstruck. I mean, it's Danny DeVito. It's short and tall right next to each other. Yeah, literally. And I saw him years later and I had my dog with me at the time and he remembered our flight.

Like he was really cool. Oh, that's so funny. Best meal you've ever had and as much detail as possible would be lovely. The best meal on a plane. On a flight. I, you know, the Japanese airlines really know how to do it. They have multi-course, like, yeah, it would definitely be an Asian carrier.

Singapore Airlines has lobster Thermidor, which is like a classic, amazing. But JetBlue Mint, domestically, they consistently have really delicious. You get, there's five menu items, you get to choose three of them. And in general, JetBlue Mint by far is the best food in the U.S. Okay. My last question for you, best like experience in terms of, I'm thinking the

showers, like what is something that you go into first class that none of us experienced and you're like, oh my God. Okay. You know, Emirates first class is nice, but frankly it's a little dated now. Okay. The Etihad residence. So there's Etihad is A380s where you can book, you get a first class suite,

but you also get a double bed in your own bedroom and your own shower. And this is actually what I'm taking the kids on. When I'm taking my delayed paternity after this book launch. I'm sorry. I just want you to, one more time. You have your own suite. So that means you walk in, right?

And it's like a basically full-size bed. You have a sofa, you know, you have a sofa and a closing door and a huge TV. And then there's a door into a room with a double bed with frittata linens in your own shower. And two people can fit in it. So I travel with my two-year-old and two-year-olds on planes want to play.

And it's amazing because we were in bed playing with toys. I think, did you play this recently? Yes. Okay, I saw this flight. It has like eight million views on my Instagram. So anyone listening, at Brian Kelly, and I have it pinned, you can see this incredible. So, and you can actually redeem,

it's 200,000 points to get the first class seat. And then it's about 500,000 point upgrade to get your own bedroom. Wow. And what I love most, you can control the temperature because I'm like a 67 degree sleeper under the sheets and it is just so nice. And plus having your own bathroom on a plane that not one other person will use. That is the pinnacle. There's nothing better than the Etihad residence. Well, I have a new dream goal now.

And it's easy to do. I'll help you actually book it. I would love that because I have a million chase points. You have chase points. Burn a hole dream goal now. And it's easy to do. I'll help you actually book it. I would love that, because I have a million Chase points, burn a hole in my pocket. Chase doesn't transfer Amex and Capital One transfer to ETI, but we'll figure it out. Okay. We're going to get you hooked up.

Oh my gosh, Brian. Thank you. I have been following you for so long. And I was saying this at your event last night, but like you are such a champion for everybody in this industry. And I think technically we're all like a little bit of competition with each other, but it's like it's so incredible when all of us support each other and champion each other and introduce

people and it's just so great. And everybody should buy your book. Everybody should follow you and plug away my friend. No, I want to plug you. No, no, no, no, no. I am inspired by you. I want you to know that. No, I love your authenticity, sitting behind the wheel, telling it how it is.

I think a lot of influencers try to overproduce and like you give us your authentic self. And it is inspiring to me. I can't try all the time, Brian. It's too exhausting. Yeah, but you do it well. And I know you're helping. I think we have similar goals.

Like we see how people are making mistakes and it's too exhausting. You can't do it. Yeah, but you do it well and I know you're helping. I think we have similar goals. Like we see how people are making mistakes and it's like, we just wanna help people. Make these small tweaks that, you know, will let you live a better life. And I want them to know too that again, it's not, you and I, I think have a different life than most people.

Like we own a business, we get to use some of those points, we get to travel a lot. Every day average people can do this. Absolutely. Now, maybe you're not flying the first class every other week, but you're just, yeah, flying economy to get home for Christmas. You're able to stay at the Hampton Inn and Suites on your road trip. So, like, there's so much accessibility in a way that I think it's very easy to just, like,

investing or anything else, personal finance, write it off as, like, oh, just the experts know how to do this. Like, you can do this too. Absolutely. So plug away, please. Well, I'm very proud of my first ever book, How to Win at Travel. It's 15 chapters.

I'm going to teach you everything from budgeting, how much of your disposable income should you be spending on travel, everything jet lag, travel safety. I have a whole chapter on etiquette. And then I end on the future of travel. There's a lot of exciting things happening in sustainable aviation fuel.

My dear friend, Corey Lee, who travels the world in a wheelchair, shares his incredible insights on how we can all be better. And some really exciting developments on that front. Supersonic travel could potentially be around. They just had the test flight this week, new supersonic. Wow. You know, when will we be in taxis

that are unmanned, electric? So there's a lot of exciting things happening. I want people to be excited about travel. And if there's one thing I think everyone should know, it's that winning at travel and winning at this points game is winning at life because it teaches you how to get your fair share. And I do firmly believe the more people

that get involved in this ecosystem will live better lives. Yeah. And we have a lot of authors on the show. I'm not just saying this. It's a fantastic book. Everybody should go read it. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Safe travels. A special thanks to Spotify for letting us film at their New York studios. It is a beautiful space and I love being able to film in studio and we appreciate Spotify for letting us use their space. You can get his book, How to Win at Travel, right now wherever books are sold.

And for the credit cards that we recommend, we actually partner with the points guide to be able to deliver you credit card recommendations. So you can go to the link down below for the credit cards that I use and recommend to get free travel. You can go to herfirsthundredk.com slash tools if you're not seeing that link down below. Thank you as always Financial Feminist. If you appreciated this episode, we'd love that you share it and cheers to traveling more in 2025. Have a great day. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, Have a great day. Special thanks to our team at Her First 100K. Kaylyn Sprinkle, Masha Bakhmakiyeva, Taylor Cho, Sasha Bonar, Ray Wong, Elizabeth McCumber,

Claire Karonen, Darrell Ann Ingman, and Megan Walker. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolf, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K community for supporting the show. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests, and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com. If you're confused about your personal finances and you're wondering where to start, go to herfirst100k.com slash quiz for a free personalized money plan. you