Financial Feminist - 223. The Job Hunting Guide to 2025 with Erin McGoff

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

If you're job hunting in 2025, this is the only job-hunting podcast episode you’ll ever need. Seriously. I’m sitting down with Erin McGoff––award-winning career educator, content creator, and the founder of AdviceWithErin, to break down exactly how to stand out and land the job of your dreams in this wild hiring landscape. We’re talking about the biggest job market trends, the right (and wrong) ways to apply, why networking is more crucial than ever, and how to figure out what kind of career actually fits your life. Whether you're currently job hunting, thinking about a career pivot, or just want to be prepared for the next step in your professional journey, this episode is packed with the advice you wish you’d heard sooner.  Erin’s Links: Website: https://www.erinmcgoff.com/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/advicewitherin/  Erin’s Newsletter: https://www.hyperhelpful.com/  Career Advice Quiz: https://advicewitherin.com/quiz  Read transcripts, learn more about our guests and sponsors, and get more resources at https://herfirst100k.com/financial-feminist-show-notes/223-the-job-hunting-guide-to-2025-with-erin-mcgoff/ Looking for accountability, live coaching, and deeper financial education? Check out our exclusive community! Join the $100K Club: https://herfirst100k.com/100k-pod Our favorite travel and cash-back credit cards, plus other financial resources: https://herfirst100k.com/tools Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz Special thanks to our sponsors: Squarespace Go to www.squarespace.com/FFPOD to save 10% off your first website or domain purchase. Rocket Money Stop wasting money on things you don’t use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to RocketMoney.com/FFPOD. Quince For your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from Quince. Go to Quince.com/FFPOD for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Netsuite Download the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning at NetSuite.com/FFPOD. Gusto Run your first payroll with Gusto and get three months free at gusto.com/ffpod. Masterclass Get an additional 15% off any annual membership at Masterclass.com/FFPOD. Public Fund your account in five minutes or less at public.com/ffpod and get up to $10,000 when you transfer your old portfolio. (see disclosures: https://herfirst100k.com/financial-feminist-show-notes/223-the-job-hunting-guide-to-2025-with-erin-mcgoff/) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Financial feminists, this is the only episode of any podcast you will ever need to listen to about job interviews. It is jam-packed with information about how to stand out and land the job of your dreams, whether you're looking for a new job or not. Let's get into it. Hi, Financial Feminist. Welcome back to the show. I am thrilled to see you as always. If you're an oldie-buddy goodie, welcome back. And if you are new, hi, my name is Tori. I am a multimillionaire. I'm a money expert and I've helped over 5 million women save money, pay off debt, start investing, start businesses, and feel financially confident. If you are wondering where to get started in your financial journey and you're feeling overwhelmed,

we have a free personalized money plan for you at herfirsthundredk.com slash quiz. You're going to answer a couple questions for us to be able to give you information that's relevant to you, and then you're going to get your plan sent straight to your email. So herfirsthundredk.com slash quiz is the best place to get started. Today's guest is a fun one because she and I have been following each other and kind of rose up to internet fame at the same time.

And she has so much good information. This is one of those episodes you're going to listen to and you're going to immediately send to a friend. And then you're going to listen again in about a month because it's just it's jamed, value-packed. Erin McGough is an award-winning career educator, content creator, and the founder of Advice with Erin, the most-followed career advice content creator

with over six million followers across social media platforms. Known for her relatable and effective approach to career, finance, and life advice, Erin is reshaping how Gen Z and millennials approach professional growth, help them build confidence, secure dream roles, and navigate the complexities of the modern workplace. Today we're covering whether you should follow your passion or your talents and how to determine what those are, the current trends we're seeing in the job market, including the most common red flags in job listings, how to get more focused when applying for jobs, and how

to put together better applications. We also talk about side hustles, networking, and I even go into what I take into consideration when I'm hiring at Her First 100K. So if you've ever wanted to work at our company, this might be a good place to start. Thank you again to Spotify for letting us film and their beautiful, incredible studios in New York City. Thank you for supporting our show. And without further ado, let's get into it.

But first, a word from our sponsors. This episode of Financial Feminist is sponsored in part by Squarespace, Quince, Gusto, Rocket Money, Public and NetSuite. Build a beautiful website to get your message out into the world with Squarespace. Squarespace was the first purchase I ever made for my business way back in 2016. And it's still my number one recommendation for business owners or individuals building a website. Go to squarespace.com slash ffpod to save 10% off your first website or domain purchase. Treat yourself to everyday luxury at an affordable price with Quince. I just bought myself a new winter coat from Quince and not even with a gift card with my own hard earned money because that's how much I love them.

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Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash FF pod. Take the headache out of payroll with Gusto. Get three months free when you run your first payroll at gusto.com slash ffpod. Fund your account in minutes at public.com slash ffpod and get up to $10,000 for transferring your old portfolio. Download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com slash ffpod. If you're serious about investing, you need to know about Public.

What sets Public apart is how they give you the tools to make informed investment decisions. They built their AI tool called Alpha, and it doesn't just tell you if a certain investment is performing well, it tells you why the performance is happening. So you can really understand what's driving your performance and your portfolio. The best thing about Public though, and the reason I'm really talking about them, is their retirement accounts. You can open up an IRA, whether that's a Roth IRA, a traditional IRA, and Public is the place to do it.

You can fund your account in five minutes or less at public.com slash FF pod and get up to $10,000 when you transfer your old portfolio over. That's public.com slash FF pod paid for by Public Investing. All investing involves the risk of loss, including loss of principal, broker We're going to dive right in. You ready? I would love for you to tell me what you do and why it's so important. Hi, my name is Erin Mcgough. I give career advice on the internet. I have around 6 million followers total as of now. See the TikTok ban hurts that. And yeah, I'm really passionate about giving career advice and just helping people feel more confident in general in their

careers and finding a career that really fits them and makes them really happy because we spend most of our waking hours working. So you definitely want to make sure that we have a job that we like. What for you prompted the need for that? Oh gosh. Well, let's go back. I'd have to go back a bit. I always wanted to work in the film industry. I went to film school, worked in the film industry,

and it's a rough industry. I didn't have any type of connections going into it. I had to be extremely scrappy and figure out how to be a sponge and worked on all these different sets and it's rough. You get yelled at, you get rejected, it's you have to grow some thick skin. But I did it.

And I would say I was successful. I premiered my feature documentary at 23. I got a Pulitzer Fellowship. I moved to New York City off the I did it. And I would say I was successful. I premiered my feature documentary at 23. I got a Pulitzer Fellowship. I moved to New York City off the heels of it. I had meetings at production companies. Everything was going great. And then the pandemic happened. And that's when I started creating content. So anyway, I'm really passionate about it because, I mean, you know, there's different layers to it. The deepest is what really bothers me is that there's different layers to it. The deepest is, what really bothers me is that there's an unequal distribution of career advice in the world.

And when I was growing up outside the DC area, I had friends who were pretty well off and then friends who weren't as advantaged. And just seeing equally motivated people have such an unequal access to opportunity really bothered me. So when I saw TikTok, just like you, I was like, oh, this is a great place

to spread some information. And so I started doing it with just the film industry. Just trying to- I remember the early days, it was more niche than I think, or a different niche than it is now for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was more giving advice specific to the film industry.

And I did it at first because I was really annoyed. Like in 2020, you know, the film industry was all about equality and like women filmmakers. And then I go into these meetings and people would be telling me that I'm too green, I'm too young. I sound like a sorority president. And I'm like, this is so performative. What a gendered remark too.

It was just so performative. And I was just like, you know what? I'm going to go on TikTok and I'm going to spread information about how to get on set, how to make a budget, how to pitch a project, and hope that it gets to the right people. And then over time, my content became more and more generalized.

And yeah, I mean, yeah, I can go on forever about it. Well, and it sounds like it was a personal experience mixed with also seeing the systemic issues of, yeah, it's not democratized in the way that it should be the advice. And that's how I view personal finance as well. Exactly. It's the exact same motivations that you have. Yeah, that's like the deepest layer of it is just trying to level the playing field a bit, but also it's just fun. I like taking really dry subjects, like the ones we talk about, and making them fun. It's just

enjoyable for me. You originally resisted being an influencer, but then your following just kept growing. So what made you say, no, we're going all in. We're doing this. Oh gosh. Um, yeah. So I started creating content. I was a freelance video editor and I started creating content during 2020 when the film

industry kind of halted and my content blew up and I was like, this is kind of freaky. I deleted the app. I got really paranoid. I was like, people are going toaky I deleted the app I got really paranoid I was like people are gonna find out where I live and murder me I just didn't like it's a scary place I don't blame you yeah and I just didn't like I got really overwhelmed and I just didn't really want that I wanted to have more private life and I also didn't want my income to rely on what people thought of me like I wanted to be able to express my opinions without people canceling me and the internet is like people are really dumb on the internet. Like they do not, no offense, like I'm on the internet.

Like I'm dumb on the internet. But they jumped to conclusions really quick. I just didn't want my finances to be reliant on people's opinion of me. That freaked me out. And also, I was a film industry professional as a documentary filmmaker. I had a legitimate career. Right. And TikTok felt illegitimate. Well, I felt as a journalist, and we can get more into this,

that if I was on TikTok making goofy videos, I would be taken less seriously. Yeah. And at the time, I think that was true. I think now it's less true. I mean, it still continues to be true. Yeah, there are some great journalists on social media now. I'm actually, I'm working with an organization helping to get more journalists on social media now. I'm actually, I'm working with an organization helping to get more journalists on social media. But yeah, so I got a job at National Geographic.

It was actually a full-time contract job. It was like a permalancing job. It was awesome. I loved it. As we're getting National Geographic, it was sweet. And I was making TikToks during my lunch break. And it just got to a point where I was getting so many messages from people who were like,

your advice changed my life. And I was like, I need to reassess here because when I started my career, I wanted to make a difference in the world, a positive impact. My dad would always tell me like, you've been given such a good life, you know, you're so lucky, go dent the universe, go make a difference. And I always thought the way that I was going to do that was documentary. However, I did it. I made a documentary.

Documentary is going to be seen by three million people max. You know, I just, my TikToks were getting viewed by 20 million people. And so I was like, what am I actually doing here? Am I doing this for the impact or am I doing this because the film industry is a glamorous and fun place to work? You know, maybe giving career advice is my actual calling and it's where I'm making a greater impact. And I don't have to pitch my ideas to, you know.

You get to create whatever the hell you want. There's no gate. Yep. So I was like, you know, I'm just going to take this and then Disney did this huge round of layoffs at Nat Geo and I actually wasn't affected. And that actually pissed me off. The people that they got rid of, it made me really sad.

So I was like, you know what, screw this. And I quit and I went off. I went all in on advice with Aaron. Yeah. Is that something that, I mean, clearly you and I are sitting here, it probably worked out, but is that, my background as an actor, like I mourn that life very much.

I have not done it since college. Like traditional theater. Now this is, you could argue this is theater in a way, but like I miss that very deeply. Do I feel fulfilled in what I do now? 100%, but I also miss it. I imagine the experience is the same for you. Hit the nail on the head there, Tori.

Yup, K-Gremm. Yeah, like me and, you know, Connor is, my friend who's sitting here with us, we were just talking about Sundance before we got on here. And like we're not at Sundance right now, and I really wish I was at Sundance. And I do, I miss it.

The film industry is an extremely fun place to work if you have thick skin. And it's kind of lonely running your own business. So yeah, I absolutely do miss it. And I'm like sad that I'm not gonna win an Oscar one day. Maybe I will. Never say never. I do miss it.

And I'm sure you- I miss it a lot. Yeah. That just feels, you know, everybody asks like, oh, are you going to get, you know, you should audition for something. I'm like, when? Yeah. When? Guys? Legitimately. Like, when would you like me to do that? My end-all, be-all goal is to get really rich and then to fund projects that I want to make. I want to be in the seat. But the person who's in the seat and who decides what gets made in the movies, they have money. So you know, anyway, that's I'm going to Reese Witherspoon it. Yeah. For me, okay, I have a theater degree. And if you're looking at, you know, and your

background as a filmmaker, okay, in theory, we should either be making a shit ton of money because you're Steven Spielberg and I'm, pick whatever actor, but most people don't. But how do we find careers that get us to a place where, okay, we're still scratching that itch, it still feels authentic, it's still passion for us, but we're not constantly financially struggling? Great question.

I like to categorize it in two different ways. There's two types of ways you can approach your career. The first one is lifestyle-focused. Which these are the people who want to live a certain life. Most people, it's I want to own a home and I wanna have a family and I wanna have kids and I wanna have my weekends free and I wanna go on vacation

and I wanna feel financially comfortable. That's like most people. Then there's another category of people who are career-focused. These are people who have a career and they formulate their life around that career. So like military, surgeons, Broadway actors, these are people who are like, I'm going to be this career

and everything about my life is going to need to make room for that. I think most people are lifestyle-focused. 95% of folks are lifestyle-focused, but they try to live a career focused life. And what you really need to do is figure out like what's going to be your career? Like what's going to be the foundation? What's going to be something that's okay? It's sustainable. You know, you make enough money. It's good. It's secure. That might be something you love. It's probably not.

The thing that you really love shouldn't really be your direct career unless you're extraordinarily talented at it. Because I think people should follow their talents, not follow their passion. Yeah. So I'd say if you're creative, like we are, yes, find a creative adjacent career. If you're okay with being career-focused, maybe not having the most money or the most flexibility or being able to go on vacation whenever you want. You want to be that Broadway star, go for it.

But know that you're career focused and not lifestyle focused. And I highly recommend, I always recommend that people do what they love on the side. Make it your hobby. I grew up playing music, seriously. My family owned a recording studio. I played classical piano for 10 years.

I did too. Oh really? We are so similar. I would never make that my career because I'm very average at it. Yep, that's literally me. I'm like, I'm pretty good, but I remember sewing up like solo and ensemble

and just getting absolutely all the prodigies were there and I was like, okay, well, this is fun. I'm piecing out. So I have a piano in my apartment and I play it for fun. Yeah. 100% for fun and there's no pressure on it because the second that you put money or attach money to it, it's no longer going to be fun. So.

Yeah. I wish more people understood that is like, if you, everybody says, okay, yeah, I want to follow my passion. I want to do what I love. As soon as you decide this is going to be how I make money, how I make my living, it's so easy to become resentful of that thing because you're not making enough money to succeed. And so then you start feeling bitter or you start not liking it because yeah, everything's attached and all up in that now. Everything is dependent on that.

I will say though, I don't think there's ever been a better time for creatives. I think it's a really fantastic time to be creative because there's so much demand for content everywhere. So if you are creative, like parents will come to me and they'll be like, my kid wants to be a content creator. Can you talk to them? And I'm like, why would I talk to them? Like if they have the drive, if they have the talent,

if they have the business sense, why wouldn't they go for that? They can just try it out. They can get a real job on the side or get a degree or whatever, but don't discourage something that people are making millions of dollars from in their apartments. One of the reasons we really wanted to have you on the show, besides loving your work, is we haven't done an actual career episode in a minute. And I feel like the job market is changing so quickly. So even a six months ago episode might not be relevant. So what are the trends you're currently seeing right now for finding

a job? I'd say the biggest issue job seekers are having at the moment is this phenomenon of these ghost jobs. And not just ghost jobs, but a breakdown in the process of online hiring. Can we talk about, can we define what a ghost job is? Yeah, so ghost jobs are job listings that are, they fall on a spectrum. Either they're completely fake and the company posted it with no intention of filling it,

or companies posted it with, you know, maybe they kind of need to hire that person, but it's just not urgent. Why would you, as a company, post something that you don't need? Why would you do that? There are a few, few reasons for it. Um, number one is like during the pandemic, a lot of companies did really well. And as we're kind of coming off the heels of the pandemic, they want to keep stakeholders and shareholders happy. So the post open jobs, because it makes companies look really good when they're hiring. Got it. So the post open jobs because it makes companies look really good when they're hiring got it So the post open jobs to be like hey, we're growing look at us as opposed to early and everybody off

Yeah, yeah, but there's also there's a ton of reasons you gain market insight because you're seeing who's applying Yeah, you can gain an advantage on your competitors by interviewing people who work there And also there's just like straight-up scams. Yeah. Yeah, so it So it's a hodgepodge of different reasons, but it is an epidemic right now. Yeah. And it's leading people to a lot of very reasonable frustration because they will spend all this time killing their resume and writing a cover letter and applying to a job that simply doesn't exist. And there's no easy solution because indeed in LinkedIn and all these big job boards, they can't tell what's a job posted in earnest and what's not. So this is why it is so crucial right now to be networking.

And I know people hate that advice because they're like, I don't want to network. I just want to stay at home. I'm an introvert. But guys, it is so much easier to get a job through networking than it is through submitting a tailored resume 150 times. Like, I work with people every day and every single one who has gotten a good job,

where it's like they love the people they work with, it's like hybrid and it pays really well, and they love the work they do. Most days they got through something they knew. Yeah. I want to talk about networking in a second, but with ghost jobs, how do we determine, are there like red flags where you go, oh, that's clearly a ghost job to avoid? Great question. Yes. Okay. You can't tell if something is a ghost job, but a few red flags are if it's been up for

more than 30, 60 days. And if there's thousands of applicants, it might be, it might not be. Another indicator, a really strong red flag, is if it's like poorly written. Yeah. Like if it's like we need a rock star guru who does this. Ninja. Yeah. Ninja. And you're like, this feels like AI. Yeah. So you can't tell necessarily, but those are some red flags. Yeah, that's super helpful. You posted recently, quote, I'm gonna hold your hand when I say this, but blood supplying to hundreds of jobs is ironically the worst way to try and get a new job.

And you kind of just said this. Why is that bad? I mean, I have my own theory about why that's bad. Yeah, I'd love to hear it. I mean, it's similar to mine. Yeah, it's the like. OK, I get it in some way because I do think finding a job is a numbers game. And I think a lot of people are like, OK, cool, I applied to two jobs this week.

And I'm like, that's not going to do it. But at the same time, that desperate energy takes over where you're just like, oh, hey, oh, the LinkedIn just says quick apply. Okay, I'm just going to quick apply. And then it's just like you're one in many because you're not, you don't actually maybe even want the job to. Yeah, quick apply and easy apply are awful. Dangerous tools.

Awful. Do not use those features. I'm so sorry LinkedIn and Indeed, I love y'all, but those have ruined the job market. Yeah. And that's a hot take, but I stand by it. No, I agree. I mean, it's nice if you're a job seeker in theory, but then again, it's not, it's not just like everybody else. Yeah. You're not actually doing what you need to do.

I think that it highly depends on the role. So like if you're highly skilled in an in-the-band, you know, industry, yeah, fire them off, you know, you're going to get an interview like that. Or if you're applying for like a service level role or like unskilled labor, you know, yeah, you're probably going to get a job. That is throwing spaghetti at the wall. Yeah. How much she put unskilled in quotes, by the way, if you're listening,

unskilled, we're not trying to get canceled today. That's just what it's called. Yeah, I totally get it. So yeah, why is this so damaging? Why should we not just blitz our way through the job application process? It's just a waste of your time. And people hate it when I say this because it's not cute advice. Because it's like, well, Aaron, what are you know, what am I supposed to do?

Try. And that's part. The problem is with the Blitz is, you're just like everybody else. Everybody else is Blitzing too. It's not random who companies hire. They're not picking resumes with their eyes closed. They're picking the resumes that they think align with the job description the most.

And probably half those jobs you're applying to don't even exist. So you're literally wasting your time. I always recommend, so that's an example of a job board approach. If somebody's like, I want to get a new job as a project manager. So they go to LinkedIn, they search project manager, New York City, and they apply, let's apply. That's a job board approach.

They're going to the market, they're seeing what jobs are open, and they're applying. In my opinion, what's it called when something's, but oh shoot, I'm bad at the phrases, league, bush league? Oh, obviously I was gonna say butch league. But yeah. Okay, we'll cut that part out.

I think, no, it is. Anyway, that's like, that's small potatoes. Yeah, sure. I'm always really bad at phrases, but I use them really commonly. I am so well-spoken that I get on a mic and I'm like, blah. No, basically that is like the hardest way,

in my opinion, to go about it. Again, different roles, different industries, take everything I say with a massive grain of salt, but like that is the hardest way to go about things. Now let's look at a company-forward approach, which is what I recommend people do who are struggling to find a job. So say you're the project manager,

you're looking for a project manager role in New York City. I want people to go out and list 10 to 20 companies that they would like to work for. They've gone to the company website, they like their benefits. Doesn't even matter if these companies are hiring or not. Because you know what? They probably are hiring

and they just haven't posted the job. The hidden job market is so real, especially right now with the breakdown and the process of online hiring. People are getting hired through word of mouth like crazy right now. And that's why, of course, the networking is so important. So I always recommend find 10 to 20 companies that you would want to work for. You read good things on their to work for you read good things on their glass door You read good things on there on their linkedin you like what they're doing like their values Maybe you know a few people who work there and they love it who cares that they have an open role start stalking them Start connecting with them proactively reach out and then you know what when a roll opens up, you know, they're gonna call you So I highly recommend a company board approach again. Everybody's situation is different industries are different

I highly recommend a company board approach. Again, everybody's situation is different. Industries are different. That's just, from my experience, helping millions of people land awesome jobs. That's just what I see work the most. I'm now doing the tally in my head of my own team. I think almost everybody came to us because they worked with one of my team members

at a previous job, or we know their old employer and they have nothing but nice things to say. I think that's the vast majority of my team. I think very few of them were called applications. Well, again, as someone who hires, it expedites the process. It's so much easier. I would also say if you're looking for a job, speaking of networking, start introducing yourself to people. Like one of my friends who's also now working with us,

she actually, you might know her, Jess Hawks. She, another like big TikTok exploded, but she was a virtual assistant and continues to be and teaches other people to be a virtual assistant. And anytime I've needed VA, exec assistant, social media, project management stuff, I've gone to her and been like, hey, so you teach people how to do this, who do you recommend? And I accidentally, politely, stole almost her entire network and team. And now she is working with us too.

So that's a perfect example of someone who's teaching people to do that kind of job has a network of people that they've taught. And so finding the person that's like, yeah, that knows everybody. Yeah. And you know, it's funny, Tori is like, you really get this because you hire. And the second you start to hire, you're like, I get it. Like, I don't want to see a generic resume. I want to see a tailored resume where somebody put time in and the people who write the follow-up email and they send a little note, they go right to the top of my pile

because they're showing initiative. And that's not just me, that's anybody who hires. So can we talk about that? What is the checklist of things that you should absolutely do and the checklist of things you should definitely not do? And I can chime in too, because there are certain things I'm like, no, absolutely not. I love to hear you.

What do you think? Okay, first of all, we cannot accept gifts. Oh, legally. That has happened before. Legally? Where very kind people, because it's a bribe. But you're not like a federal government employee. Yeah, but still it feels weird.

I don't know. My lawyers are like, no, no, no, absolutely not. So they'll send a note is great, but like a Starbucks gift card or something like that. Like, no, because then it just gets into weird. Well, it's just like, Oko Tako. Well, it's a weird legality territory where I'm like, if I give you the job, is it because... Of the Taco Bell gift card. Yeah, truly. So like, super sweet. I would say probably not for that.

One of the do's is definitely like, yeah, tailor your resume for me, especially because I were a mission-driven company. If you want to do mission-driven work, and I'm sure most people do, understand our mission. Absolutely. Communicate that you understand it and communicate that you wanna be part of it.

Because again, I can definitely tell when it's cold. Typos, I mean. It's such an easy one. I'll excuse one, but like, especially if I'm hiring somebody to do like social media or copywriting, there's a typo in your resume because that's the other thing. And I know you talk about this. I am looking for reasons to put your resume in the no pile because I have 20, 25 resumes I'm getting every hour.

So it's a lot easier for me to say no than it is to say yes. And if you give me an easy reason to say no, I'm gonna take it. I'm gonna take it. Yeah, other things. I'm trying to think of- I mean, that's something people don't realize. I review resumes. I do these free resume reviews.

And every time I see a typo, they also have detail oriented under their skills section. It's like a running joke with my followers. I'm like, there it is. I would say, and one of the things that is so helpful for us, and this is more interview and this is what I teach, we don't do as much career content anymore from me because I've been out of the job market for a while. But one of the things I always teach people is to prepare for the interview, look at the

job description, and have specific stories or examples of ways you've done that. So if it is, okay, manage those projects on time, I'm going to ask you a question about that in the interview. It's probably going to ask you a question even in the application. So if you can go, I've done X, Y, and Z for this previous company or this happened and here's how I handled it. That helps me because you have tangible experience. It's not just you've put the right words on the resume. Absolutely. You got to have story time. They're called behavioral interview questions. And

it's like when they ask you like telling about a time you failed, tell me about a time you showed leadership and you need to have like those stories prepared because they're really hard to think of on the spot. Yeah But yeah, I mean I talk to recruiters all the time Actually just posted like a survey on my LinkedIn trying to trying to get more information from recruiters and something that I hear a lot Is that people just don't read the job description and they're like people don't understand how much time and effort we actually that's like Most of their job is like writing job descriptions and they're like, people don't understand how much time and effort we actually, that's like most of their job is like writing job descriptions. And they're like, they are a road map. They are your treasure map to an interview.

We give you exactly, that's so true. We give you exactly what you need to do to come in and kill it. And it's all in the job description. Like if you can go into an interview and just repeat like phrases from the job, that's all they want to hear because they're checking off a little checklist. Especially if you're interviewing at a big corporate company where you're going to go through several phases, that first interview is screening.

They want to hear phrases from that job description, and that's it. So you just got to repeat them as much as possible. Not in a weird way, but. Any other do's and don'ts that you can think about? About applying to jobs? Yeah. I would say do embrace LinkedIn.

I feel like LinkedIn gets a lot of hate for LinkedIn influencers and it's so cringy, but guys, it's an incredibly powerful platform. It really is. It's like a global Facebook that's a directory of everybody in the professional world. I use LinkedIn every single day. Me too. It's an incredible platform. Create a LinkedIn profile, especially that lower third.

That's like my film industry speed coming in but like that summary under your name Yeah, if you write that correctly, I did a whole YouTube video on this recruiters will find you like you want recruiters coming to you I don't want to give it away, but like give me one or two tips from that video. Oh my gosh Well, if you want a job put that job in that little summary section So like if you're looking for a job as a project manager Say skilled project manager with seven plus years of experience or whatever it is. Put the buzzwords in that. That's probably an SEO thing too. You're writing a blog post for yourself. Exactly. Yours and mine I think are really similar. We both

have some accolades. We have what we do for a living Yeah, and like you can embrace AI, you know You can use like a tool or something to teach you but there are tons like different blog posts and YouTube videos I can teach you how to do that. Yeah, but yeah, I would say like definitely embrace LinkedIn Don't be afraid to message people on LinkedIn And be polite. I think people don't realize how far manners go Especially when you're dealing with a recruiter or a business owner or somebody who's hiring. The last thing we want is somebody who's just like rude. Just say like, please and thank you. Have professional email etiquette.

Master the art of written communication. Because the easiest way to come off unprofessionals by sending, you know, an email that's just typo written. And it's something that's so easy to get right. I would also say, again, we're kind of dancing around this, don't apply for a job that you don't actually want. It's not a good use of your time. It's not a good use of the hirer's time. But the person who's hiring's time.

I know you might think, oh my God, okay, I need to find a job. Because I did this shit in my early 20s. I was like, oh my God, I need to find a job. I'll just apply. And it's like, don't actually, don't do that. That's a waste of every day's time. One thing I will say is that it's easier to get a job and you have a job. So like, it's so ironic,

but I have a lot of people who I work with who have been laid off for a long time. A year, I've seen a couple on LinkedIn of like, I've been laid off for a year, year and a half. Oh, I get people who've been laid off for like three years. Oh yeah, oh boy. And I just tell them like, I give a lot of advice and it gets people to roll their eyes,

but if you actually listen to me, so get a job while you look for a job, that doesn't mean I'm not telling you to get a job, get the job you're looking for. Just do something. Drive Uber, dog sit. And I know a lot of people are doing this. That's one version of it.

You could also just get an ancillary job, something that's kind of similar, but not really, you know, do marketing for a local cafe if you're trying to get a job as a marketer. Like find something where you maybe you could freelance or consult, because it's so much easier to get a job when you have a job. That way you don't have that gap on your resume if you freelance while you're unemployed. And that can really, really help because gaps in the resume are not super welcome in America. It's also so that you are not forced to take a job that you know is not going to respect you.

I think that's the other, honestly, long term, the most compelling thing is it's like, you can be picky or you can go, you can be pickier. You can go, you know what, there were a lot of red flags in that interview. And that I'm okay. I can wait that out. Because that's what I did. I remember, especially my first job out of college. Now again, tons of privilege in this.

I had some family support at the time. They weren't kicking me out immediately. But it was like, okay, I can choose a job that is the right fit. Now it wasn't the perfect fit, especially when I got in. But like, I remember my first job offer was like $32,000. And for someone who had two bachelor's degrees, who like had multiple internships, multiple jobs, who worked her ass off in college, both my parents were kind of like, that's pretty low.

And so it was, you know, it was that moment of, oh, I don't have to absolutely take this job because I have some sort of financial security. Yeah, absolutely. And something else to add to because I work with a lot of Gen Z's is that you're not going to like your career at first. You're definitely not. Work is not, no one dreams of labor. You're not going to love your first job. In fact, you might not even love your second or third job because you're new. So when you're early on in your career, I see this life cycle happen. People go to college, they're really jazzed. They're

jazzed with their career. Yeah. They get that first job, it sucks. It sucks because they're new. You're new at a company. You're going up this huge, you got this huge learning curve. You're in the real world, you gotta pay taxes, it's like, it's awful. You know, I lived in a cockroach filled apartment, like it sucks, you know? We all do it. And it gets better. Like, you gain more confidence, you learn the lingo, you meet more people, and then you get a better job. And it's, it just, things suck when you're new at them. Everything sucks when you're new. It doesn't just suck that much though. Like, if it really sucks, get out of there. But I'm just saying, it's just things suck when you're new at them. Everything sucks when you're new. It doesn't need to suck that much though. Like if it really sucks, get out of there.

But I'm just saying it's not going to be like amazing the second you get out of college. Team, I hope you're taking notes as long as you're not driving because this episode is jam packed with great advice. When we come back, Erin and I dive into the idea of a dream job, how to work through rejection and what I personally look for when hiring

for her first 100K. Stay tuned. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is that all-in-one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online. You know it, I know it, we love it. And Squarespace was the first investment I ever made in my business,

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returns. That's Q UI and ce.com slash FF pod to get free shipping and 365 day returns quince.com slash FF pod. Can we talk about that belief of a dream job? Like I was just joking, like no one dreams of labor. But like it's true. I think again, I had this experience, I'm sure you did too, got into my job in my twenties and I was like,

okay, I'm gonna girl boss my way up the corporate ladder and I'm gonna stop the fucking pavement with my little cute briefcase. And like, got in was like, boy oh boy, this is awful. This is so much sexism, like this was so much more sexism than I thought it would be. And it was just, I just, you think that there is a dream job, even though people tell you there's not. There's no dream job, right? Yeah. Well, my opinion on it, like every, all my opinions, is very optimistic. It's nuanced and optimistic.

I'm an optimist in general. Yeah, me too. I believe a dream job is a job that allows you to live a dream life. Ooh, say that again. I believe a dream job is a job that allows you to live your dream life. So, you know, my dream job, let's take me for example.

My dream job is directing films in Hollywood. That's why I went to film school, to become a director. And my dream job is being an actor professionally. Exactly, look at us now. No, but- Podcasts and spy-face studios. But what happened is I got out of college, I was working on set, it sucked. I got yelled at, I got screamed at,

it was not a good environment. A lot of the sets were great, but some of them were terrible. And in addition to that, getting paid absolute shit. Hours awful. 12 to 16 hour days on set out in the freezing cold New York City. It was awful. And I realized that I would have to dedicate my entire life to this. That means like I can't work at home on the couch with my dog. I can't go on vacation with my family to the beach. And I couldn't do all these things that I actually really, really wanted to do. Well, and that's back to your original

point, which is it sounded like you wanted a lifestyle, not a career. I'm lifestyle centered, but I was living a career centered life. Yeah. And so I realized, do I really want to give up everything to be a really famous director? Because plenty of people do. Yeah. Yeah. And that's great. I realized that I actually really, really like hanging out with my friends and I like having a nice apartment

and I like having money. And having savings. Yeah. Yeah. And I really want to travel and like I really want to purchase my family and my community And for me, I needed a job that fit into that dream life and this This is it. I'm so grateful and i'm so lucky I get to help people I get to make money doing that. I get to do it at home with my dog. It's awesome

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that's my take on that. No, I think that's so smart. And again Find something you it doesn't have to be the passion, but we definitely want to find something we care about, something we're passionate about, because you're going to burn out if you don't. Exactly. And also, again, as soon as you tried to make, you have one singular focus, right?

I think just that's sometimes really damaging, especially if you want a certain lifestyle. You have to be adaptable. There's all these studies in psychology. I do a lot of research on burnout, and there's not a lot of good reputable studies on burnout, but there's a ton of good studies on happiness at work. And something that everybody comes to the conclusion of is you have to have a little bit of joy in your work.

A lot of the times people think that burnout is caused by too much bad and sad and meanness and no it's cuz you don't have It's cuz you don't have any joy. Yep. Yep, you go through your whole day and not you didn't smile one time Yeah, that's why so yeah, I always encourage people to get a hobby, you know, you know I've got to incorporate some joy back in your life. Listen. No job is going to make you happy every single day We both have an amazing job and some days this job sucks. Absolutely sucks. Like I read my YouTube comments this morning. Don't do that.

I read comments last night and I had to call my partner and get talked down. Cause I was like, I'm having the flight thing again. And he's like, I know you are. And I'm like, it's not good. It's all like men in their basements too. I'm like, guys. The women are the ones that get me. I don't fucking care about the men. It's the women. Okay. I like men in their basements too. I'm like, guys. The women are the ones that get me.

I don't fucking care about the men. It's the women. Okay, I was just telling my husband this morning. I have not seen one negative comment from a woman on YouTube on the other platforms, yes. But for me, it's dudes in their basement. But anyway, you've like a purely female audience, right? 95%.

Yeah, mine's like 75. The content makes it on, I actually know the content's doing well when it makes it to bro side of the platform. Yeah. And then it's not exaggerating. It is a, you're fat, you're unlovable, go kill yourself.

Every minute is another confidence. How do you maintain like confidence? Like, do you have any tips for like having thick skin and stuff? Now I'm on your podcast, hello. Yeah. That's a conversation for another time. I don't know, it's a lot.

It's like, honestly, like I've never based my self-worth on other people. And I have a million other things that I am working on, but every time I go in a new therapist office, I'm like, hi, we're not gonna have a self-worth problem. We're gonna have a million other problems, but you don't have to worry about that with me. So I think that's one thing.

The ones that bother me are not the... I mean, I'd be lying if I came out completely unscathed from everything, but those aren't the ones that bother me. It's the comments from women. Yeah, I know. I work in the film industry. Yeah, it's the ones who are like, why are you bragging

or you think you're such hot shit? I found a Reddit thread about myself last week. Don't do that. No, I didn't mean to. It was accidental. And yeah, it was rough. Or when people tell their version of something that happened

and it's not true. Yeah. Whether that's like ex team members or just like people who have a perception of who I am. You should let go and let God. Oh, I really try to, but it's like, people don't realize this about me. If you were to point at like any fictional character

and say that's Tori Dunlop, it's Leslie Knope. Like literally she's- People say that about me too, Waffles. Really? Yeah, Waffles girl. Oh yeah, she's like, I'm an Enneagram too, I'm a cancer she's- People say that about me too, waffles. Really? Oh yeah. She's like, I'm an Enneagram too. I'm a cancer.

People don't know that about me. So like, if you know me in real life, I am the most like soft, like I cry at everything. You're very sensitive. Yeah, but my online persona is like Capricorn Scorpio. Come at me, I'll cut you in the night. Truly, and I do, that is a part of me. But at the end of the day, I'm like,

I just wanna be liked, I wanna be loved, I wanna be respected. And I also, like my goal for my 30s, cause I just turned 30 recently. Congrats. Thank you. How old are you? 29.

Okay, great. My goal for my 30s is to be okay being misunderstood. The let them theory, huh? Truly, Mel Robbins. Thanks, Mel Robbins. Hello, Mel Robbins. But no, just like, okay, you're gonna think what you're gonna think about me.

And I really wanna defend myself and I wanna say, no, but that's not true. And again, it's Leslie Knope. I wanna take him out bowling to convince him to vote for me. But it's just like, you know what? That's not my responsibility. Yep, you can't control other people. And I always tell people, there going to be like one to three

percent of the people you meet in life in your life who are just going to not like you for entirely personal reasons. Oh, there's one to three percent of people I don't like. Yeah. We all have people where it's like, I just don't like them. I need to get weird vibes off that person or I just. Yeah. Yeah. But like, there's nothing you can do. Like you could be a perfect human being and they would still not like you because there's something about you that they don't like about themselves. There's a mirror up to you. That's always what I say projecting

That's the thing that feels really harmful though when it is women is I get sad for myself But I more get sad for her. Mm-hmm where I'm just like, oh, we're still doing this I know have you seen the Barbie movie? We're still doing this we have Taylor Swift now and Beyonce. I know. But she's the kind of woman that's like, which one is better? Right? And it's like, no, just like.

There's prounds for everyone. Me girls. Truly. Truly. And it's, yeah. The one that we were talking about, we call it Bikini Gate internally. Oh. I posted a photo about the bikini.

Bikini Gate, that's amazing. For listeners who may not be aware, I posted a photo in a bikini on my vacation in Italy like last July and we lost 50,000 followers overnight, one night. Crazy. And there was one woman, it was like the full embodiment of this. She was literally commented and she was like, I kind of look like you or have a body like you and I would never think to post in a bikini because I don't really like myself that much. And that was literally the comment.

And I was like, you literally just described what's going on here, which is like, you see, and she's like, I could never picture doing that. So I'm not sure why you're doing that. And you're like, bestie, just post it. Post it, live your life. She's like, I would never wear a bikini. I would never ever do that.

And I can't believe you feel comfortable doing that. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, so this is literally what we're trying to do here. As you watch a woman like herself and that feels deeply uncomfortable because she realized you might not. Yeah, oh. I know.

I love the phrase, don't get mad, get curious. Yes. It's like my mantra. I was trying to think, why would they comment that? They must like really be having a hard day. Let's bring that. I'm going to bring us back to like jobs, but like that's a kind of perfect example of job searching is really hard. You're getting told no a lot and it's easy to take that personally. It's easy to think like, oh, I didn't do enough or I didn't show up in the job correctly. And I do love curiosity as an answer to that. So somebody

listening who is in the, in the throes of the job seeking world, who's like, God, I can't make anything work. Or I get to the final interview. That was me for a really long time in my career. I got to the final interview and they chose somebody else over me. Like what do we say? What do we do? How do we feel?

Oh man, I talk to people all the time about this. The one thing you got to remember is that a lot of companies are really bad at hiring. Like they might have actually hired the wrong person. Or they might have hired the CEO's nephew. You know? Or that, you know, you never know why they hired who they hired and you should always ask for feedback and listen to it with open ears. But you never know. And you know what happens a lot of the time is that in a month or two, that person doesn't work out. And that's why you got to send that response email to a rejection because you want to be

top of mind for them. People think like when you don't get a job, that door is slammed forever. Oh, it's definitely not. It's just one position at one company of one week. They could open up a new position next week. Or you're not the right fit for that job. We've literally had that where we've hired somebody for a different role because we're like, I don't think they would be a good fit here.

Or we found somebody who would be a better fit for this job. And it was nothing, it's never anything personal. But then it's like, oh, actually we need this type of person in this type of role. We talked to that person six months ago. They were great. Pick up the phone call. Literally, I mean, you don't understand this

until you hire, but you're like, I wish I could hire all of you. You're all amazing. But I just had to pick one and this person just had a quarter of an inch, you know, of an advantage over you at this scale or maybe their communication skills were a little better. Or they've had five years more of experience and you can't control that. You just, you can't control it. I do think that you do need to assess like what, you know, what could I do to improve because oftentimes people will be unaware. So they won't realize that if they go into a job interview,

they make this crucial error. And if you never get feedback on that error, you're gonna keep making it forever and it's gonna keep screwing you over. What error, what might that be? Yeah, so something that I hear a lot from recruiters, I talk to recruiters a lot because I just try to get what's going on on the ground. Yeah. So like etiquette skills. Okay. That's like something

I'm really passionate about is teaching people about etiquette because it's, yes, it's annoying, but it's also the way the world works. And I don't want somebody to have this advantage. Erin's like, show up on time, Tori, because I have to relate to this interview by accident. Hell no. You had a great excuse. Show up later. I'm chilling. I'm happy to be here. But this is why I always recommend that people either film themselves when they're practicing for job interview or they do a mock interview with a friend who's like ready and willing to roast them. Like don't do it with your mom y'all unless she's like mean.

Like do it with somebody who's gonna give you feedback because you we are humans are so not self-aware like we have no clue I like play with my hair all the time so I put it up during podcast interviews because I like would be playing with it because it's just something that I do that I can't really even control so you have to have somebody tell you like you're fidgeting I say like a lot Erin you said like so much maybe scale that back and the problem in the United States especially or maybe this is an Like, you're fidgeting. I say like a lot. Erin, you said like so much. Maybe scale that back. And the problem in the United States, especially, or maybe this is an issue everywhere,

is that a lot of the times companies won't actually give you feedback to why you didn't get the job for legal reasons. Because if they tell you it was for this reason, it kind of opens up a door of liability for them. So that's why it's really important to either get feedback like in person or get feedback from a friend or something in a mock interview. Yeah. Yeah. It's also sometimes like when people have asked

for feedback, there's times where it is just truly like this other person was a better fit and there's nothing you could have done. It was a vibe thing. Yep. And there's some times where I'm like, it was so disastrous. It was a problem. I either have to sit and give you three hours of career advice or I just like, it was so disastrous. It was a problem. I would either have to sit and give you three hours of career advice, or I just say, no, we don't have any feedback. Because I'm like, I can't devastate you today. Yeah.

Yeah, it's tough, but yeah. Sometimes you do interview people and you're like, oh, you're in sweatpants on FaceTime. Maybe not. Yeah, or you don't answer my question. I think that's the most common thing is I ask you a question and of course, I have the answer in my head of what I'd like to see.

No one's a mind reader, but I do think like, I'm looking for a version of that answer. And if you don't answer the question or like, you give an answer that's so far removed from the job. Yeah. And especially over and over and over again. That's the biggest reason why we don't hire people. Yeah. Another thing that I see that's really common is people talk about themselves too much. As opposed to what they're gonna do to contribute to the company. Yeah. You need to think of yourself as a

product and I know that sounds weird but when you're hiring you do kind of look at people as like, okay, here's this, this, this, and this. These are all different people, different packages that I could buy for this role. And you need to think of yourself as like, how am I packaged? What are my strengths?

What are my weaknesses? What am I doing to work on them? And think of yourself as like a brand. I always tell people, as a freelancer, I had to brand myself. I had to be like, I'm a white glove service. I am a commercial video editor. I can do nonfiction. I'm a white glove service. I am a commercial video editor. I can do nonfiction. I do sizzle reels. This is my niche. And if you hire me, I will deliver to you.

Everyone needs to think of themselves as a freelancer. Don't think of yourself as, I graduated with my business degree and I just need a job. No. What are you? What value do you provide to the company? Are you going to be in this software or this specialty or this sales? What do you bring to the role? Because if you don't do that work, you're going to be in this software or this specialty or this sales? What do you bring to the role? Because if you don't do that work, you're going to lose the job as somebody who did. Well, again, I'm about to spend money and if you're employee 401k and health insurance and family leave I'm like I have to make sure that someone's going to come in and pay for themselves. Absolutely, you know

And that's the biggest thing i'm looking for. Of course, do you fit in well? Do you care about the company? But at the end of the day, the person who's getting the job is the person who's like, yeah, I'm going to provide value, and here are the concrete ways I've provided value somewhere else. Exactly. That's so true.

And something else that I encourage people to think about is when a company is hiring for a role, they need someone to do a job that is not getting done. And so they, like you, like you're a small business. If you need a podcast editor, you needed a podcast editor yesterday. Literally, yes. If I'm hiring, it's probably,

we now proactively hire, but we proactively hire knowing that, yeah, we need, yeah, we need somebody right now. Yeah, so you just want someone to come in and say, hey girl, I'm a pro podcast editor. I can do it. I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna get it on schedule. And what I don't know, I'm gonna learn.

And I'm gonna be self-sufficient in that learning. I'm scrappy and resourceful. Music to someone's ears. And then also prove to me that you've done it somewhere else. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Don't just like blow smoke. Yeah, yeah. But also don't talk about how,

oh, this would look so good on my resume, this would look good on my portfolio. Oh my God, know. Yeah. Yeah. But also don't talk about how this would look so good on my resume. It's a look at my portfolio. Oh my God. No. No one cares. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm looking for someone to come in and do the job. Yeah. Provide the value.

And I think it's the same thing with like salary negotiation, as a lot of people get in and they're like, well, I need this amount of money. And I've done math in order to afford rent at this place. And I'm like, that's not how we negotiate salary. Oh yeah. Or my student loans are coming up and I got to pay them. No, it has nothing to do with you actually. It has nothing to do with you. And that actually helps make it less personal so that you can walk in and ask for the number that you found talking with people or on Glassdoor or what you know you should be getting paid. Not like what I need to afford a two bedroom

as opposed to a one bedroom apartment. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Thank you for considering our sponsors. They allow us to produce this podcast free for you. And when we come back, we're talking more about how to network better, regardless of if you're an introvert or an extrovert, and how I feel when people cold outreach me. We're also talking about side hustles, so I'll see you back here in a few. Nine out of 10 businesses are likely to recommend Gusto, and I am part of those nine. We are big fans of Gusto at her first 100K, both on the user side, the employee side, the contractor side, but also on the business owner side.

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including loss of principal, broker services for U.S. listed, registered securities, options, and bonds in a self-directed account are offered by Public Investing Inc., member FINRA, and SIPC. Complete disclosures available at public.com slash disclosures. So we've been talking about networking again everybody's like I don't want to do it and I think to wax poetic about networking for me really quick I do

think the definition people think it's like suit, handshake at the hotel bar. Styrofoam coffee cup in a name tag. Yeah, truly. And then like I will connect with you on a platform and like that's not what networking is. So talk to me about what you view good networking as and how we can use that to build our career. Oh, this is my favorite topic. I love networking and just just a little disclaimer here y'all. I'm an introvert. I'm actually like a kind of shy introvert. I know my videos I come off. They were like confident and all this stuff and I am confident but like I prefer to be at home on my couch.

I don't do. Yeah, I realized I'm way more introverted than I thought I was. I think I get older, but most successful people I know are huge introverts. Introvert does not mean that you are socially awkward. It just means that you're an introvert, that you'd like to be alone. And that you get energy from not other people. From being alone, yeah. And something that I think people

put a lot of blocks in their mind. And they think, oh, well, I'm just not confident. I'm just shy. I'm just an introvert. I'm not like that. And it's like, great, those thought processes are doing nothing for you. You're just limiting yourself.

Yeah, they're limiting beliefs. Networking doesn't have to be in the conference room with the styrofoam cup. Networking can be dog walking in a nice neighborhood. Honestly, that's one of the best ways to network. Driving Lyft, I drove Lyft in college just to network. I would drive around the nice parts of town and I'd pick people up and that was back when you would talk to people. Or I guess maybe that's just in New York, you don't talk to people.

But there's so many fantastic ways to network. Weddings, great place to network. Just introduce yourself. Hi, how do you know the bride and groom? Birthday parties. I call this whole section that I'm talking about out of context networking. In context networking is what you were just talking about with the conference room and the styrofoam cup and all of that. Industry events. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone is there with the expectation to network.

Yeah. And those are great places to do it because everyone's there with the expectation. However, in those environments, people also have walls up because they're like, you're trying to get something from like, I'm here to network. When you are out of context, it is such a powerful way to network. Golf caddying at a country club, like you need to put yourself in situations where there are powerful people

and they're not thinking, they don't have their work hat on, but instead they have their dad hat on or their wedding hat on. They're the best places to network. Also another great networking tip I have is couch networking. This is awesome for my introverts.

You just sit on your couch in your pajamas and just fire off awesome emails and LinkedIn messages. Asking for informational interviews, that's the big one I always recommend to people. Informational interviews are fantastic, especially if it's a warm connection. So if it's somebody you've kind of talked to in the past. I always recommend if you're doing a cold outreach to not ask for anything, but just to provide value first.

So if you can send them like, hey, I noticed that you spoke on that panel and you mentioned this, I just heard this podcast episode that I thought you'd find really interesting. Gold, I bet you get lots of cold outreaches every day. What's a piece of advice that you would give to somebody who's doing a cold message?

Oh, God. This is another one where I'm like going to bitch and moan for a while. Um, do not ask to pick my brain. Ugh, do not use the term pick my brain. Ever. I'm so sorry. That phrase needs to go die a brutal death. Brutal. Or can you just hop on a call for a quick sec? Can you just hop on a Zoom call? I charge $40,000 to speak on a keynote stage. Unless you are like, which by the way, if you're a college student, you don't know that

you have the most valuable tool in the entire world until you lose it, which is, hello, I'm a college student. I'm trying to figure out what my career is going to look like. I am way more likely, of course, to give you my time than someone who is just like, yeah, can I pick your brain? There's no focus. I think that's my biggest issue. There's no focus.

I don't know what this call is about. I don't know why you're asking it. No. Yeah. No. So the pick my brain is really hard or the like, I agree agree especially if it's cold and you're immediately asking me for something I mean, I think it's hard any time you're reaching out to like you or I because I'm not even exaggerating probably in the same for you. I get

500 DMS probably every two days a day. Yeah, we're email LinkedIn Instagram Yeah, this big of a paragraph about their personal situation. Yeah. And I can also tell when you've done no research for yourself. Yeah. And that's most people, is they ask me, they're very, you know, they're like,

should I pay off debt first or save first? And I'm like, baby girl, baby girl, I have a whole book about this. I have a start here page on my website. I've done multiple podcasts. You make it very easy for people. Yeah. And so do you. So I think that's my other pet peeve too,

is I'm like, if you've done no work for yourself, first of all, why would I also give you my time if I know that like, you probably won't take my advice because you haven't taken your own time to try to answer that question for yourself. Okay, question for you. Where do you go to college? I went to University of Portland. Okay, question for you. Where'd you go to college? I went to University of Portland.

Okay, so what if somebody reached out and they said, Oh, I'm more likely. Hey, I was in the theater program. Oh yeah, even if you were a pilot. If you went to the UP. That's called a warm connection. Yeah, I'm more likely to warm. Of course.

Yeah. You have to make them warm somehow. That's why if you went to college, y'all, and you have an alumni network. Oh yeah. You are golden. Also your career center, your career center, and your college helps alumni. Like, you can be 10 years out of college, 15 years out of college, and at least at my university, I think it's the same for most universities,

they have always said we help students and alumni. They host alumni events all the time. Yeah. Well, you can call and you can use the career center's resources even if you're not a student anymore. It's truly amazing. You can join your university group on LinkedIn. And I also, you know, whenever I'm giving this advice, I was thinking about people who didn't go to college and there are tons of other organizations that you can ... Your high school even. It works the same way. Your high school, your hometown, hell, your sports team. If you reach out to somebody- Your 4-H club. Yeah. Like they're called mutual affiliations. And if you can find your mutual affiliation with somebody,

like I recently had a girl reach out to me, cold reach out, had nothing in common with this girl. And she said, hey, I noticed that you're really into rescue dogs. Our rescue dogs look kind of similar. And I was like, girl, you poked the right part of me. What do you need? What do you need?

Because that is something I'm so passionate about. We had nothing in common. Yeah. But I've totally responded to her email because she did a little bit of research on me and she found out what I really love. That's another great career tip just in general. If somebody has a dog or a child,

or learn their name and remember the name. In a non-creepy way. In a non-creepy way. Yeah. And ask occasionally how they're doing. How are your kids doing? How's your dog Olive doing? Yeah.

Well, do you watch The Office? My family's from Scranton originally. My dad's son. The Electricity. The Electric City. They call it that because of The Electricity. The Office is my favorite show of all time. Michael Scott is my dad. Amazing. But I was going to say one of the great things Michael does is he keeps his index cards and he's like, you know what?

That's when you realize he's legit. Yeah, but it's like, it's so important because you and I both love when someone is like, oh, how's that project doing? And you're like, oh, that was really nice that they remembered. And I will also rebrand networking. Like I think just generally as people who give career and money advice, I try to not use the word network. And it's just like, it's just talking to people.

That's it. That's all it is. And making sure you wouldn't go up to somebody on the street. And this is what's happening on social media, right? I wouldn't go up to you if I didn't know you and be like, yell what my question is, right? That's so jarring. Can I pick your brain? Truly, right?

But that's what happens on social media. There's no intro, right? I was going to say there's no foreplay. We're just like, that's not helpful. So yeah, I think that it's just talking to people. And if that helps you mentally take the pressure off the interaction, I would recommend doing that. Absolutely.

Also don't just do reach networking. So like somebody reaching out to you for advice, that's called reach networking. So they need something from you. That's good, but you should also do peer to peer networking. So like somebody reaching out to you for advice, that's called reach networking. So they need something from you. That's good, but you should also do peer-to-peer networking. It's crucial to peer, to network with people who are on the same like playing field as you. For two reasons. One, camaraderie. Come on, we're in the trenches together. Let's talk about it. And number two, you never know where people are gonna go. Like the intern yesterday could be the VP tomorrow. You have truly no clue.

And when you graduate college and you enter the workforce, you think the world's so big, you think you're never going to see people again. Oh my goodness, the world is tiny. You have no clue where people are going to go. I encourage people to not burn bridges and to be respectful to anybody who deserves it. I think you burn bridges that deserve to be burned. Okay, but how do you determine what bridges those are? You sexually harass or assault me. Oh, okay, Tori.

Let's go there. You make up lies about me to try to get me fired. These have all happened to me in my career, by the way. Torch it. Yeah. I'm like, you did not earn my respect. I'm absolutely not doing this. Well, it sounds like they burn bridges with you. True. Good point. Yeah, you didn't burn bridges with them. Good point. But yeah, there's like certain people I sometimes like fantasize about this,

like before I'm falling asleep at night. I'm like, I would love to see that person. They say you, they see you all the time. Oh, I know. It's my ultimate form of revenge. Good luck walking into any bookstore, not seeing my face. I feel like we're both very motivated. For the rest of my fucking life, let's go. Okay, one more question.

All right. And then we're gonna do some role play and not in a kinky way. Okay, all about side hustles right now. It sounds like you and I both, that was the start of her first 100k for me was job side hustle. You were working in film and doing this on the side. What do we think about this shift towards the gig economy, especially for Gen Z?

And how do we do it in a way that doesn't burn us out? And also, can we stop glamorizing a side hustle that for most people is actually a second job? I was like four questions, but. Yeah. Gen Z, you know, for how much they hate hustle culture, they are side hustling. They all have side hustles. Every Gen Z I know is doing something on the side. I think that's largely in part, you know, because content creation and the internet makes it so accessible to just try and do an Etsy shop or try to flip furniture in Facebook marketplace or try to do TikTok. I'm all for it. I think side hustles are incredible. I

don't think you should quit your day job. I think you should do it on the side. And then when it reaches a tipping point, then you can jump ship. I could not agree more. Yeah. What are your takes on side hustles? What do you think? Okay, you. Popping it back to me. Yeah, I mean, I have the same thing. Again, back to my point about I don't want you to resent the thing.

So if you are asking your side hustle to support your lifestyle before it's ready to do that, that will no longer be fun. And so I agree. I think you have to get to a point where it's like, well, I'm basically forced to quit my job. I have this actually like theory about the job market in general that I'm like formulating still, but I think with the rise of AI and just where the job market and jobs are going in general, I think we're going to see a lot more business owners.

Yeah. And I mean, this year alone, I think 1099s are tipping W2s. Wow. I know. Wow. Which is insane to think about. But I think that is the shift is like people, especially like women, we talk about, you know, my whole thing is like, how do we get financial freedom for women? And I would not be sitting here as a multimillionaire who is financially set for life without a business. It just would not

happen. It's the easiest way to, it's the get rich quick scheme is to start your own business. Yeah, or it would happen when I was, you know, 50, 55. And again, there's tons of businesses that don't have success in the same way. But if I'm really talking to you, dear listener, and you're not loving your job, and you're not loving corporate job and you're not loving corporate and you're like, I don't have the flexibility I want. Yeah, you might have to work a little harder temporarily to find something that you love and do that on the side. But I was willing to do that because I saw what it could be. Absolutely.

Yep. I mean, I come from a very entrepreneurial family. My dad founded a few companies and he didn't come from that. My dad grew up the fourth generation funeral home director in Scranton, Pennsylvania. So he was very much self-taught and self-made, but he would tell all of us, my five older siblings and me, like, go out and start your own thing. This is America. Go out and start your own business.

It's the way that you're going to gain wealth. And it's true. If you go up to anybody on the street, outside of like finance and law, they're business owners. They're people who started a window washing company and now they're a multimillionaire. Yeah, it doesn't have to be sexy. Oh, in fact, it shouldn't be.

Yeah. The unsexy of the job, the more money you're probably going to make from it. Everybody wants glamorous and sexy jobs, you know? But if you can find out how to make metal cups, the guy who invented this metal cup is on a yacht somewhere, I guarantee you. My brother invented a insulation, like a packaging insulation, so if you got Hello Fresh or whatever

that is and you get like a sustainable insulation inside of it that's recyclable. Your brother invented that? My brother invented that because he was so, he was frustrated by the inefficiency of styrofoam. So he engineered, he patented a new thing. It's so unglamorous, he's good. Yeah, set. He's good to go. Okay. Yeah.

So figure out what it is. Anyway, side hustles. I love it. We're wrapping up this conversation with Erin when we come back with some of your biggest questions about job hunting in a lightning round. Stay tuned. hunting in a lightning round. Stay tuned.

With the Fizz loyalty program, you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan. You know, for texting and stuff. And if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan, you're not with Fizz. Switch today. Conditions apply. Details at fizz.ca. details at phys.ca. Role play, you ready? Let's do it. Okay. So if you can give me what you would do and then I'll do some interview questions. So my first question for you, you see an ad for a job posted on LinkedIn, do you send them a message? And if so, how do you craft it and what do you say? Do you send them a message? Absolutely you do. And guys, who do you talk? Do you send them a message? Absolutely you do. And who do you talk to, by the way?

Okay, so on LinkedIn sometimes it'll actually have the recruiter linked with the job. So if that's the case, go ahead and message them. That's a good green flag saying, hey, you can message me. And y'all, if you see any recruiters who are like, I'm so sick of people messaging me, they're just bad recruiters. Recruiters love when people message them. Their job is to get qualified candidates in seats. So anyway.

Or they're getting so many messages that are bad. Yeah. And so they're sick and tired of that. But if you're qualified, absolutely message them. If you're not, don't. But anyway, you should absolutely message them, at least them. And then also, people put too much focus on the recruiter. Department heads actually make the decision.

They're the people who actually are like, this is the person I need on my team. Recruiters just curate. So message them and also find the department head and any alumni you know who work at that company because they might be able to get a referral bonus. Anyway, you're going to message that recruiter and all you're going to say is, Hi, my name is Erin. I'm a video editor based in New York City with seven plus years of experience and I specialize in commercial editing. Let's say it's for a commercial editing job. I just wanted to put a face to an application. Thank you so much for your consideration. I look forward to hearing back from you. Boom.

That's it. And it was personal kind of to the job, but you can copy and paste that. Yeah, I would just change that. Yeah, change. Obviously, I'm giving you a specific example. But if you're applying in that scenario, I'd be applying for a commercial video editing job. And I used all of those keywords in the message. Yep.

Beautiful. Okay. Boom. You get into an interview, you have a gap on your resume. How do you say, how do you respond to the, what is this gap doing on your resume? Yeah, it's a good question. So one thing is that if you get to the interview and you have a gap on your resume, it wasn't a deal breaker. So that's the first thing that you need to know is that if you get to the interview and you have that gap and they're

asking about it, they're just curious. It wasn't a deal breaker because if it was they wouldn't be interviewing you. Yeah, I mean, again, somebody who hires somebody, I agree. And I'm asking, honestly, I'm asking because I'm curious more of like, did you do something fun? Yeah, were you freelancing? Were you taking your side hustle full time? Were you traveling Europe? Because it shows that you're willing to maybe take risks or to like do something. Or even just like, you know what, I needed a fucking break. Great.

Okay. Awesome. We all get that. Just have a good explanation. I think the key to this is saying I intentionally made a lifestyle decision. I intentionally made a lifestyle decision. I intentionally made a lifestyle decision to go to Europe for three months. I climbed this mountain, I did this thing,

and it was amazing, and now I'm back, and I couldn't be more ready to dive back in. If you're scared, they'll be scared. So you just need to be like, I did this thing, it was awesome. Right, own it. I intentionally made a lifestyle decision to stay home with my young children.

It was amazing. During that time, I kept up with all the industry news. I gained this skill and now I'm back. Yep. Ready to dive in. Yep. Love that. You quit a job with a toxic boss.

How do you gently answer the, tell me why you're leaving your current job question? And I have a response for this too, I'll see if ours are similar. Cause I've had to answer it. Yeah. It's tough cause you really want to talk shit. You really do. The thing is, is that it unfortunately doesn't because you really want to talk shit. You really do. The thing is is that it unfortunately doesn't reflect positively on you to talk shit to a

stranger about someone that they also don't know or worst-case scenario they might know or I guess best-case scenario because anyway. I always just recommend being positive in interviews. I think it's safer to be positive and just say it wasn't a good fit. There was a change in the management style at that company that no longer fit my goals. And so I'm looking to move on to something better. And that's why I'm so excited to be here interviewing

at Spotify or whatever it is. We have very similar answers. Really? Okay, what's yours? Mine is, it's like a different excuse basically, which is like, I really didn't see a future in terms of my own career development at the company, which is my boss cut me at the knees and was awful.

So yeah, I really didn't see a future in terms of me progressing. And that is something that I'm really passionate about. And I can see from this job description and from my research I've done at Spotify, that you support the company in this way or the employees in this way, you've done this and, that you support the company in this way or the employees in this way, you've done this and that, and you support them with a sabbatical. And I'm really excited to see that growth. And so that's why I'm here talking to you.

It's very similar. It's like- Both kept it really positive. Right, and it's also like, it's a perfect example of I've done my research, I care about this organization. And it's also kind of like a fuck you to them of like, don't you dare do what you did. Or that happened to me prior. Don't you dare do that again.

Yeah. And you say that you support employees in this way. So I'm really excited to watch you back it up. Yeah, super excited. You say this on your website. Let's see if it's actually the case. Yeah, yeah, no, it's the same thing. And it's also the, and now I'm so excited.

I'm so excited. It sounds like you guys are so committed to career development. And even that's a perfect opportunity to then go, you know, I saw this on the website and this, can you tell me other ways that you are focused on employee career development? I saw your family first company, you know, is that in the good way or the bad way? You know, let's figure it out. Yeah. But then it's like a conversation too, which I think is so great. Absolutely. Let's do the impossible questions. What is your greatest weakness?

All right. 1090 rule, y'all. 10% of the answer, naming the weakness something realistic, but not a deal breaker for the role. 90% of the time talking about how you're working on it. Yep. I got a lot of weaknesses, Tori. I'm working on all of them.

I seem like a lot. You haven't really in this interview. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I also, I've done more research about it because I used to be very, I like drilled it out of myself. I have different vocal cues that I will not say on the podcast because as soon as I say them,

that's all you'll hear. But I do think it's actually very gendered because I think we get shit. I have a lot to say. It's actually as far as genders go. I'm actually, I'm working on a project right now. I'm doing get shit. I have a lot to say. Okay. Actually, as far as genders go, I'm actually working on a project right now. I'm doing some writing. Okay. And part of the writing is I'm talking about how I'm calling them language softeners. So anyway, you know,

like, you know what I mean? I think. All language softeners, women use them to come off less intimidating. Yeah. And I actually, if I was doing this podcast, I'd be happy to talk like this. I intentionally speak with likes and ums because if I don't, people get weird with me. Yeah. You want to be accessible. You want to be approachable. You want to be liked. My content is relatable. My content is friendly. So if I talk like... That's one of the reasons I curse on this show. You have your code and I have my code. Yeah. And they're part of our brands.

And when you're at work, you're going to have a brand too. There's nothing wrong with using language softeners because otherwise I sound like I'm preaching. Yeah. I sound like I'm giving a TED talk. Right. But I'm not. I'm having a conversation with Tori. Language softeners, I'm actually a really big fan of

as long as you are using them with intention. You can't... As opposed to mindless? Yeah, or, you know, women get cut off a lot. That's why we say, um, because we want people that are whistle talking. So it's extremely gendered. And, you know, I also see it affect men who are softer spoken to. I don't think it's just women, but it's the majority of the time that's women.

I would say something I'm currently working on improving are my delegation skills. Guys, just how, right? The wording of that. Mm-hmm. Something I'm currently actively working on improving about myself are my delegation skills. I tend to think it'll just be easier for me to do everything, but I know that in order to advance into more senior roles in my career, I need to master delegation. So currently, I am reading a leadership book that's teaching me tangible delegation skills, and I'm working

to delegate one thing a week. Mom, that was great. That was perfect. Yep. It's always about what I've learned, what I'm doing. Yep. Yep. How you're working on yourself. And do not say, I work too hard and care too much. Speaking of Michael Scott, do not say that. But also don't say delegation if you're applying for a manager role. Don't say what? Delegation? Don't say delegation if you are applying for a manager job. Yeah, because that's a huge red flag. Read the room.

I would say that for a technical job or a specialized job. If you are applying to be a firefighter, don't say you don't work well under pressure. If you are applying to be a copywriter, don't say that grammar is your typos. And if it truly is a weakness, that might tell you that maybe this is not a good career path for you. Yeah, you know, if communication and you're a consultant, yeah, maybe you got to do something else. I hate writing.

I'm about to be a copywriter or not. Great for you. Okay. What is your salary expectation, Erin? I want to hear your answer, Tori. I think we have the same answer. I would say I'm flexible depending on other elements of the compensation package. I'd love to get aligned. But of course, it depends. If they listed in the job description, which

I think 22 states now legally have to. Yes, they do. A little different. A little different. But I would like to keep it open. If you have to give a range, have the bottom end of that range be the number you want and to say that you can be flexible depending on other elements of the compensation package because that's true.

Yeah. If they're giving massive bonuses or a huge 401k match or it's a flexible job, there's a monetary value attached to that. Yeah. And again, what you just said, which I want to call out, what you want or what you've realized your research says you should want should be where the floor is, not the highest, not even your, like that should not be where you're at. Yeah. That reminds me, going back to side hustles, something I told somebody yesterday that blew

their mind was your salary isn't the ceiling, it's the floor. Everybody thinks I get paid $75,000 a year, so I am $75,000 a year. And it's like, oh. You have taxes. Well, you have taxes. But I'm saying you can go out and get a side hustle, you know? So like you could make $85,000 this year if you picked up $10,000 worth of dog walking or whatever. So, but again, that abundance mindset of like, don't identify yourself by your salary. You can always go out and make more money. Yeah. Okay, my last one for you.

This is the one that drives me. Bunkers. Where do you see yourself in five years? I do not ask this. I hate this question. Yeah, I just think it's lazy. I think they should ask what are some goals that you have? You know, what are some things you're interested in doing in your overall career?

Be much less lazy. I say that as somebody who has a free five-year plan template. I'm a big fan of making five-year plans, to be honest. Really? As an act of self-love and not necessarily something to stick to. I think thinking about future you as a way of self-care. No, I completely agree with that. Just for me as someone who is very type A, if I would have aligned myself, again, I thought, you know, VP of marketing, my 30,

girl boss, my way up the ladder. If that five-year plan paid off, I'd be miserable. And I wouldn't like my life very much, but if I kept the blinders on, that's what I would have gotten. So I don't like the five year question because it's more like it cuts you off from any possibility. Oh, I got a great answer for you then.

Great, okay. Well, the way I approach the five year plan question is, first of all, I like to make a little joke. Like, oh, ha ha, I don't even know what I'm being for lunch tomorrow, ha ha. Yeah, and then you come in with the fucking best answer that I've ever heard. And then you just murder him. You soften them and then, little joke like, oh, haha, I don't even know what I'm being for lunch tomorrow. Haha. Yeah. And then you come in with the like the fucking best answer that I've ever heard. You just murder him.

Yeah. You soften them and then, but I like to say like, while I like to keep things flexible and I like to be adaptable, like as we've seen, the world can be very unpredictable with like, you know, COVID and AI, there's always new things happening. You have to be adaptable. I do have specific goals. And after you say that you have specific goals, name something big. Name, you know, I want to be in a position of leadership where I'm leading a creative goals. And after you say that you have specific goals, name something vague.

I want to be in a position of leadership where I'm leading a creative team to create projects that really align with me and make me feel very fulfilled. Don't get too specific. The more specific you get, the more trouble you can get into because they'll have more things to attach to that they don't like. Just keep it vague. I want to be in a position where I feel like I'm contributing to and then describe what this role is. Yeah. Music to their ears.

I think one of the things too, that I both tend to answer when I get, cause I get that question in like regular interviews and I fucking hate it. Stop asking me that question. But it's also, I think that I kind of look for when I'm hiring, and again, I don't ask this question in specifics,

but is something like, here are what my career goals are, and then also here's what I'm excited about outside of work. Love it. Like, and again, you don't have to be super specific because again, as soon as you bring up children, some employers get weird, but you can just say like, I hope that I am living a life and surrounded by people who support me. I hope I'm happy and fulfilled. And I hope that I've traveled to this place.

But again, it shows me that, one, you have a life outside work, which is what I do want that for you. I want that as your employer. I want that as a person. But two, it shows that like, yeah, you have other things, you have hobbies, you have passions, and that you are a well-rounded person. It's always important in an interview to understand the question behind the question. So they're not actually asking, what's your five-year plan? They don't actually care about your five-year plan. All they care about is, are they going to stick around?

And if they are going to stick around around are they going to thrive yes Yes, because you don't want to hire somebody whose plan in five years is Different than what you would want somebody in that role like if they say they want to go work for your competitor Okay, yeah, maybe don't hire them or if they say they you know Want to be in a different industry like these are all red flags So you need to understand what they're really asking is what what is this person planning on doing in their career? Yeah, and does that align with what we need in this role? Totally. Okay. The last question for you if you can give people a few things that they could do today To be a better candidate in the job market. What would they be? It's a great question and in 2025 skills

Tell me more. Skills are the most important thing. Companies and there's data to back this up and anecdotal evidence. Companies are caring less and less about degrees and experience and they're really caring about skills especially in the age of AI. Also put AI on your resume and gain AI skills. I know that might be not an opinion that everybody has, but I think the age of AI that we're in

is like the early age of the computer. I think it's just here. And people who learn to embrace it and to use it to be more productive, they're going to get ahead. And that's not like my fault, guys. Like I didn't create that. That's just like what I see.

And I don't think it's something to fear. I think it's something to get really excited about because it can make your job a lot less boring and then not the best. So I would say, yeah, number one, skills, hard skills and soft skills really increase like the amount of software as you know how to use, the amount of processes you know,

and your communication skills. They wanna hear that you know how to do things. That's all they wanna hear. And the second thing is just have AI on your radar. I don't care what it is, if there's a podcast in your industry or you can read a blog or something about AI. Just like just poke around a little bit and just kind of keep your eyes on it because if you don't, people who are are going to get the good jobs. Yeah. I know that's like not the advice everybody wants to

hear but I'm excited. I was just being aware of what the trends are and also I love the quote and I'm sorry because I can't remember who said it, but like I want AI to do the laundry and like the chores for me so that I can create the art. I don't want AI creating the art for me. It will.

Yeah. It will. Everybody's freaking out right now because like when AI first came out, everybody's playing around with it. Scary robot. Yeah. But that happened when the computer came out too. People were doing dumb shit with computers too when they first came out.

It's, I'm optimistic. I think AI is like gonna cure cancer and do our taxes and I think it can make the world a good place. But the good people gotta be using it. So yeah. It's just like anything. It's money, right? Money is a tool. Well it's a technology. In the wrong hands, it's terrible. Yeah, it's a technology. And any technology can be used for good or evil and it's a very powerful one.

So got to make sure it's in good hands. Erin, thank you for your time. Thank you for your expertise. Thank you for your online friendship and now real life friendship. Tell people where they can find you. Plug away my friend. Absolutely. You can find me Sleuther around at my local cafe.

Just kidding. You can follow me on Instagram at advice with Erin and TikTok and YouTube are are the same I have a newsletter I send out every week called hyper helpful Cool people really love it You can go to hyper helpful comm and I have a career advice quiz if you're kind of confused in your career You don't know what to do next It kind of pairs you with like what jobs might be a good fit for your personality and lifestyle preferences So that's advice with aaron.com slash quiz amazing. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I've been admiring you since 2020.

I've been following you since 2020. That's all I know about you. Really? Yeah, very much. Oh man. I look up to you in so many ways. So thank you so much for having me, Tori. That's right back at you truly. I would say that on or off mic. So thanks for being here.

Thank you so much to Erin for joining us. It was really great to have this conversation, but she's also just a gem and it was nice to be in person with her. And she's one of those people I'm really excited to see again next time I'm in New York. You can follow her at Advice with Erin on social media, and you can go to hyperhelpful.com

for her weekly newsletter. You can also listen to her own YouTube show and podcast called No One Knows What They're Doing, wherever you get your podcasts, wherever you're listening right now. Thank you as always, Financial Feminists. We really appreciate you supporting the show. One of the best ways to support feminist media right now is continuing to listen, to make sure you're subscribed, but also sharing this episode on social media

or with people you know would love it. We really appreciate it. We'll see you back here very soon. Bye. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100k podcast. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100k, our guests and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com. If you're confused about your personal finances and you're wondering where to start, go to herfirst100k.com slash quiz for a free personalized money plan. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap. Produced by Kristen Fields and Tamesha Grant. Research by Sarah Shortino. Audio and video engineering by Alyssa Midcalf. Marketing and operations by Karina Patel and Amanda Lafue. Special thanks to our team at Her First 100k.

Kaylin Sprinkle, Masha Bakhmakeva, Sasha Bonar, Ray Wong, Elizabeth McCumber, Darrell Ann Ingman, Shelby Duclos, Megan Walker, and Jess Hawks. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolf, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K community for supporting our show.