Financial Feminist - 227. How to Stop Caring What People Think with Mel Robbins

Episode Date: April 21, 2025

You know that little voice in your head that says, “What will they think?” The one that’s held you back from hitting publish, setting a boundary, or even just being yourself? Yeah, we’re done with that. In this episode, I sit down with the iconic Mel Robbins to talk about how to finally stop caring what other people think—and start living for yourself. This isn’t your typical self-help chat. It’s real, unfiltered, and hands down one of the most vulnerable conversations we’ve had on the show. We’re not just talking about why it’s time to let go of other people’s opinions—we’re unpacking how to do it, especially when it’s your parents, your boss, or your internet trolls. Mel shares how she navigates criticism, the emotional toll of success, and why it’s not your job to manage other people’s feelings. If you’ve ever felt held back by fear of judgment, or struggled to show up as your full self—this episode will change the way you see your life, your relationships, and your ambition. Mel’s Links: The Let Them Theory: https://www.melrobbins.com/book/the-let-them-theory/  Read transcripts, learn more about our guests and sponsors, and get more resources at https://herfirst100k.com/financial-feminist-show-notes/227-how-to-stop-caring-what-people-think-with-mel-robbins/ Looking for accountability, live coaching, and deeper financial education? Check out our exclusive community! Join the $100K Club: https://herfirst100k.com/100k-pod Our favorite travel and cash-back credit cards, plus other financial resources: https://herfirst100k.com/tools Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz Special thanks to our sponsors: Squarespace Go to www.squarespace.com/FFPOD to save 10% off your first website or domain purchase. Rocket Money Stop wasting money on things you don’t use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to RocketMoney.com/FFPOD. Quince For your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from Quince. Go to Quince.com/FFPOD for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Netsuite Download the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning at NetSuite.com/FFPOD. Masterclass Get an additional 15% off any annual membership at Masterclass.com/FFPOD. Indeed Get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com/FFPOD. Gusto Run your first payroll with Gusto and get three months free at gusto.com/ffpod. ZocDoc Visit Zocdoc.com/FFPOD to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today. ResortPass Visit Resortpass.com and use code FFPOD to get $20 off your first ResortPass experience. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is Mel Robbins like you've never heard her before. One of the most vulnerable, honest, and raw conversations we've had on this show. We're talking about the Lethem Theory, of course. But we're also talking about how to show up for yourself and stop caring what other people think, how to build better boundaries, and why it's so important for women to show up for themselves. Let's get into it. Hi, Financial Feminist. Welcome back to the show. I'm thrilled to see you as always. My name is Tori. I'm a New York Times bestselling author. I host the number one money show for women in the world. You're listening to it right now.

And I've helped over five million women save money, pay off debt, start investing, start businesses and feel financially confident. If you're wondering where to get started, you can go to herfirsthundredk.com slash quiz, and we will send you a free personalized money plan for wherever you're at in your financial journey. You've heard of Mel Robbins. She has the number one book in the world right now, The Let Them Theory. And we're so excited to have her on the show to have a conversation that truly she has not had anywhere else.

Yes, we're going to talk about The Let Them Theory. We're going to talk about her incredible work. But I threw away most of my questions. And you know that the interview is good when I didn't even get to my planned questions until about 45 minutes into the conversation. Let's talk about Mel. Mel Robbins is an award-winning podcast host, New York Times bestselling author,

and one of the most followed and sought-after experts in mindset, behavior change, and life improvement. Robbins' award-winning podcast, The Mel Robbins Podcast, is one of the most successful podcasts in the world with over 185 million downloads and has been named one of the most top podcasts in the world with over 185 million downloads and has been named one of the most top followed podcasts globally. She is also a New York Times bestselling author with her work translated in almost 50 countries. Her bestselling books include The Five Second Rule, The High Five Habit.

Her book, The Let Them Theory became an instant bestseller on Amazon. I don't think it's left the top spot on Amazon sales. It is a number one New York Times bestseller and it is one don't think it's left the top spot on Amazon sales. It is a number one New York Times bestseller and it is one of the self-help books that Oprah calls her favorite. So this conversation is absolutely fantastic. We are talking about everything, let them, but beyond that, again, I scrapped my questions for the first good chunk of this episode. I think this is the most vulnerable and honest I've ever seen Mel. She came into this conversation just so open and so raw.

And if you feel like you know Mel Robbins, if you feel like you've heard everything she has to say, then you haven't heard this episode. And I think let them has gone super viral, right? This concept of let people do and let people think what they're gonna think. But the second part of the let them theory is the part that is so impactful and really important. And we're diving more into that today. This is the part that everybody seems to forget about,

but the part where change actually happens. I loved this conversation with Mel. I was so honored to have her on Financial Feminist. And I hope you share this conversation with every single person in your life who needs to give less shits about what people think about them. So let's get into the conversation. But first, a word from our sponsors. This episode of Financial Feminist is sponsored in part by Squarespace, Quince, Gusto, Rocket Money, Indeed, and NetSuite. Build a beautiful website to get your message out into the world with Squarespace. Squarespace was the first purchase I made for my business way back in 2016,

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at gusto.com slash FF pod. Get a $65 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com slash FF pod. Download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com slash FF pod. Our next ad is with somebody that I have been looking to partner with forever. I have tried to work with them because I love them so much. It's resort pass everybody. If you do not know what resort passes, basically what happens is you get to access luxury hotel amenities. So the fancy pools, the spas, the cabanas without needing

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and use code FF pod for $20 off your first booking. That's resortpass.com code FF pod because even one day away can feel like a true getaway. Can you just ask me how am I doing? Really doing. It's a weird moment at the age of 56 to realize that you are having an experience that is probably the peak moment of your career in life. And it is also very overwhelming to know that there is something way bigger than me that is happening and I am part of what I would consider a response

of the collective consciousness and positive forces rising up in the wake of so much negativity negativity and division and lies and misinformation that is really harming people. And so to kind of have this sense, and I only have it because I've done so much fucking work on myself that I am finally able to be present. And I'm also good with myself that I'm able to understand that there's the job that I do, there's the person that I am,

and then there's this much bigger thing that's happening in the world. And that, you know, whether you talk about the success of the Mel Robbins podcast, or you talk about the LetThem theory, I feel that I exist in a legacy of positive information and philosophy and spiritual teachings that have been around or risen up in moments in history where people needed to be reminded

of what's important in life, and they need to be reminded that no matter what's happening in life, and they need to be reminded that no matter what's happening in the world outside of you, that you have power through your attitude and your actions to improve things, even if it's just slightly. And I mean, this was like the teaching and the takeaway from Viktor Frankl's

Man's Search for Meaning. This is Stoicism, this is Buddhism, this is radical acceptance. And so, you know, how am I really doing? I'm humbled, I feel this weird sense of mortality. I'm trying desperately to just be present because I miss so much of my life because of anxiety and the amount of problems I cause myself and other people

that I really am just trying to be present every day, to wake up and to really remember and experience this as it's happening because there's a wave and an arc to this. I think that's how I'm feeling. And the other thing that's very interesting, and I know you've experienced this because you are extraordinarily smart and you tell the truth.

And it's very interesting to see how we've gotten to a place in the world where everybody is so stressed out that you have to have a villain, that you got to tear somebody down. I've been one of the top-ranked podcasts in the world since we started, which is astonishing to me. But the second we hit number one and unseated Joe Rogan

and stayed there for the entire month of January, it's like, I could not believe the lies, the misinformation, the allegations, the gossip, the stuff that was coming out of the woodworks. I'm like, what is going on? This is a self-help podcast. Like, this is not some criminal trial. And I always find, I don't know how you feel about this, but I always find that, you know, when you put out a book called The Let Them Theory, life is going to give you reasons to say let them. And as a woman, it is shocking to see the spite and the kind of tear down.

And I'm just the kind of person that I feel like you don't have to be against somebody else to be for someone else. It doesn't have to be a zero-sum game of winners and losers. In my opinion, there's enough happiness and success and like financial freedom to go around for everybody. I have a mix of feelings about everything, but mostly, you know, that's all just noise. So let them. When you know the truth, you don't need to respond to rumors. And so I'm trying not to pay attention to that nonsense, because, of course, the more you if you look at it, it's bigger than it is. It's all just little mice chirping.

But it's definitely been a lot in good and bad ways. I'm going to Mel Robbins you right back to interpret for me what you just said. One of the things that I find so interesting when I was in my early 20s and I think everybody listening feels this way, I was so ambitious. I wanted the world. I knew I was capable. I wanted to go out and do things. And I remember thinking it wasn't happening fast enough. Like, I was working a job I hated, growing her first 100k on the side as a side hustle. It wasn't growing at the rate that I had planned for, right?

In the five-year life plan or 10-year whatever. And I remember thinking when I started finally getting the things I wanted, when the book deal came through and when the podcast hit number one on the business charts for us, like, I remember thinking, oh, if I got everything I wanted when I wanted it, I wouldn't have been able to handle it. And it sounds like for you, you're going, you know what, I'm actually ready because I have worked through stuff. I'm in my 50s, I'm more mature, I'm wise now.

And so all of the bullshit, I am okay dealing with that, with all of the cool things that come because I've done all the work. But if I got it when I wanted it, I probably wouldn't have been able to handle it. So it sounds like you're ready. And I guess no one's ready for the onslaught

of like bullshit online, but like you're as ready as you could be. Yeah, I am. And thank you for saying that. And you know, I'll also share with you, you know, I've kind of army crawled, just like you did, through the muck and my own crap mostly, to get myself out of financial freefall and to build this business that you see now just one move at a time and with no prior experience in any of the

things that I'm doing now, I'm just like, I'm gonna figure it out. I'm just gonna keep on going. I'm just gonna, and I would often wonder, because I've had moments of success, I would often wonder, you know, here I am dominating on the corporate speaking circuit, you know, speaking at these big corporate events. Yeah, why is nobody writing about my business?

I have a seven title production deal with Audible. Why is nobody writing about this? I feel the same way sometimes. I'm like, if men had numbers that I have, oh my God, he would be everywhere. Yes. To the point about, and that was my second point that I wrote down about the whole Joe

Rogan thing. In my book, I talk about how when a woman starts becoming uncontrollable, right, she starts having money, she starts getting power, she has agency, she is showing up for herself and others, people panic when they see that because it's easy to go, oh, her stepping into herself, her showing just how powerful someone can be is either an opportunity or it's a threat. And a lot of people who have not done the work

on themselves just see it as a threat. And it's easier to tear you down or to tear women down who are successful than it is to be like, hell fucking yeah. How can I use that as inspiration to get what I want? And so, yeah, I mean, it all comes back to patriarchy for me at the end of the day. There's so much that you and I do that we can accomplish that either doesn't feel like enough to some people

or it feels like a threat or it feels like we can't celebrate this? Yeah, I definitely understand and have felt exactly what you're saying. And there's a couple things I wanna unpack with you about that. So the experience of feeling like, when is somebody gonna write about this? I've got this crazy publishing business that is breaking,

when is somebody gonna write about this? And I just kept saying to myself, I trust that if I keep my head down and I stay focused on what I'm trying to do, and all that I'm trying to do is use my life, the lessons learned, the mistakes that I make, the things that are going on in my family to the extent my family is open to talking about it

as a way to give people tools, empowerment, inspiration, access to world-round experts for free so that you might change your own life for the better, so that you have the encouragement that is needed in order to try some of the things that the experts recommend. Because if somebody listens to you, and they are listening,

and they want to make their first 100,000, or they want to be financially independent, or they want to get their first 100,000, or they want to be financially independent, or they want to get out of debt, you are going to provide them the roadmap that will take them there. But I've become convinced over the years that the single biggest thing that stands in somebody's way is not the skills and the capacity to do it,

it's discouragement. It's the feeling that it may have worked for you, but it's never gonna work for me. And so if my podcast and work does anything, all it's doing is giving people the encouragement that they need in order to believe in a bigger possibility for themselves and in order to believe enough that they're worth trying something different.

And if I can do that, then I have potentially helped somebody turn their life in a new direction. And so I've constantly said to myself, Mel, just keep focused on that, because at some point, success comes down to just not quitting. And I've been wildly successful before this moment. I'm shocked at what I've accomplished. I am shocked at what I created.

When you made your first 100,000, oh my God. By that point in my life, I was sleeping with multiple people. I had a massive alcohol problem. I was making $19,000 a year working as a public defender, and my parents were helping me with my rent. I was buried in credit card debt, you know, I like you like wow you had your stuff together And so, you know, I just keep saying to myself it's gonna it's gonna turn out It's gonna turn out and I'll tell you time and time again, and that's what this moment is about

I'm like, oh, this is why you never got PR Because you were being held and you were being prepared for a moment that's much bigger than the one that you're in now. And so the thing that I'm here to say to you, because I saw you laughing as I was saying, why is nobody writing about me? Is that you are being prepared.

And I will say this to you as you're listening to both of us right now or watching us, you are being prepared for something in the future that you cannot see, but it is coming. And if you trust that this moment of your life and your career is giving you the lessons or it's building the patience or it's creating the emotional maturity in you

so that when the bigger moment that's more important hits, you're ready. And that's what's happening for you. I have all these prepared questions, Mel, and I kind of want to just throw them out the window. So I want to be very clear. I've had a lot of opportunities because I know that somebody is listening.

It's like, she's done Good Morning America, like how many times? I'm like, it's not that people aren't listening. It is just sometimes that, and I know everybody, again, listening and watching has this feeling of like, I want people to see how much I care. And I think the interesting thing that happens when you do start getting success is that whether it is trolls on the internet, whether it's your mother-in-law, someone comes out and tries to cut you down for size and tries to tell you that the thing you really care about is not worthy of your own time. And I think this is where we can talk about the let them theory,

but how, when we do care and we know we have a passion and we know we have something to say or something to do in the world, whether that's start a business, be the best mother or daughter or partner possible, and someone comes into our lives to challenge that, how do we handle that moment of setback? It's a fantastic question.

And let's widen this out, because what happens in your life, and it's going to happen over and over again, is that any time you have a dream, or you want to make a change, or you want to live your life in a way that doesn't match someone else's expectations. It is normal for a person to question what you're doing. And the reason why is we all have this need

to feel in control of our lives. It's hardwired, it's never going away, just like you have the need to pursue your dreams and to make changes in your life and to go after your goals and unleash your ambition or just find more time for yourself as a working mom or even how dare you learn about finance and start investing. I mean how dare you, right? How dare you become ambitious? So you have the need to do that because you need to be in control of your life because it's what makes you feel safe and fulfilled. The problem is that in human relationships,

if your behavior worries me, Tori, and all of a sudden you're starting to do something that I'm like, wait a minute, she wasn't supposed to be an entrepreneur. Wait a minute, she's starting a business online and becoming an influencer? I don't like influencer. Wait a minute, she's talking about the stock. Why is she talking about the stock market? When your behavior all of a sudden makes me worried or it doesn't match what I think you should be doing, your behavior now makes me feel out of control.

And what human beings don't understand, I did not understand this for the first 54 years, is we then make a mistake. We cross a line and in order for me to feel better, in order for me to feel in control, I now have to question you. I gotta tell you what to do. I gotta control you.

And now I've bumped up against your need to control. And so step number one is understand any change you make it is actually normal for people that know you in particular to question you. And the thing that you need to make sure you don't do is let them question you. But don't you dare question yourself. And that's the let me part. Recognize that when somebody has concerns or doesn't understand or they're questioning

or they're judgy or whatever, that is normal. But you've got to learn how to let them, give them the space to have the questions. Because for example, you know, a lot of women that want to start their own business, they have parents that had jobs. They don't understand that, right? Of course, it's your story.

I told this story. My parents chose the stable option, and I'm so thankful for it because it gave me a really stable, healthy childhood. But it was like, I literally called them 2019, and I was like, I think it's time for me to quit my job. And they were like, they literally said, you need to do anything you possibly can to keep your job.

You need the health insurance, you need the stability, you need the stable paycheck. And now I call them tongue in cheek sometimes, I'm like, wow, aren't you glad I didn't listen to you? But it's that moment where you're exactly right. It's thinking my parents are trying to do the right thing. I'm putting that in quotes. Do the right thing for me, right?

Their job as a parent is to keep me safe. The safe option would have been the paycheck every two weeks. That would have been the safe option, but it wouldn't have been the better option. It would have been the safe option. Right, right, correct. And what I love about this story is you can widen the story out to anything. Let's say that you're in a relationship and you decide you're going to start to get healthy. You're going to learn how to lift weights. You're going to go to the gym three days a week or join CrossFit or whatever it may be. to learn how to lift weights, you're going to go to the gym three days a week, or join CrossFit, or whatever it may be. If you're in a relationship with somebody who doesn't exercise, the second that you

start to go in a different direction, it's going to be really threatening to them. And so they might be supportive in the beginning, but as you continue moving in a new direction, it threatens their sense of safety. And so they're going to question you. Let them. They're allowed to question you. Your parents are allowed to be worried about you. That's a good thing. The issue that I always had is I would take somebody's

questions or judgments or worry, and then I would turn it back on myself, and I would start to question myself. And now, instead of stepping out and launching a business, you're in resistance with your parents because you think that your life I question myself. And now, instead of stepping out and launching a business, you're in resistance with your parents because you think that your life is about making them happy. You think your job is to make sure

they're okay with every decision. That's not what happens when you're an adult. Being an adult means you take responsibility for your life, which, if you look at responsibility, it's the ability to respond. The ability to respond to your parents' disappointment. Let them be disappointed. They're grown adults. They can handle feeling those things

and you're not their parent. So let them experience the emotion and let me, that's the second part, focus on making decisions that make me proud of myself, even when other people misunderstand them or they question them. Because what ultimately ends up happening is that your parents have probably done this too,

that if you just focus on living your life in a way that makes you proud and you show up as a good person, that's the let me part, couple of years from now, you know what your parents are doing? They're bragging about what you've done. They're not worried anymore. You've given them the space to be worried and then you've put your time and energy instead of managing your parents into building what you want to build. And then everybody's super proud because you've proven

to everybody what it looks like to take control of your life. And so I love the let them theory because what it changed for me is, I was so emotional and reactive and I thought everybody's happiness was my responsibility. I thought that I had to make sure my parents were okay and my kids were okay and my husband was okay and I was constantly bending over backwards

to just make sure like everything's taken care of, which is why I was constantly bending over backwards to just make sure, like, everything's taken care of, which is why I was a resentful bitch, because I was exhausted at the end of the day, taking care of everybody else. Who did that to me? I did. And so when I started to play around with let them and then eventually the let me part, I realized this, let them, what people get wrong about let them is let them is not fuck them.

That's not what this is. Right. Let them is actually about compassion. Let them is about acceptance. When you say let them, what you're doing is you're recognizing that adults can be adults, that people are who they are, and it's not your job to parent them. People are allowed to do things without you. They're allowed to misunderstand you.

They're allowed to form their own opinions. Let them. And what happens when you learn how to see people as they are is you create this space where two things can be true. This person can be this way, and I can separate myself and see it clearly, and I can be who I am and choose how I interact with this person. And it has helped me so much,

especially in this divisive time, to hold space for people with different opinions. It has helped me to hold space for the judgments of others. And it has helped me hold space around, like everybody else. I've got people in my life that have very challenging personalities, that have narcissistic personality styles. Everybody has somebody like this because it is basically the result of their childhood trauma and emotional neglect. And most of us, we realize we're dealing with somebody in our families or in our life that

has a narcissistic personality. We're not going to ghost them or axe them out. We have to deal with them. And so what's happened for me is that by saying, let them, I'm not saying let this narcissistic person abuse me. I'm saying let them be who they are because that forces me to stop hoping they're going to change. It forces me to accept them as they are. It forces me to have to look at the behavior

and stop expecting them to be different. And then I have to say, let me remind myself, I'm responsible for my boundaries. I'm responsible for how much time and energy I put into this person. I'm responsible for what I need to change because if I'm gonna have this person in my life, then I've got to operate differently,

because they're not changing. You can't change another person. And I think what had happened to me for a very long time, particularly with people with very challenging behaviors, whether it's in business or on teams or in my family, is I constantly wish they would change. Why is it that I'm around you and for the first two days it's fine

and for the third day it's a nightmare and I'm walking on eggshells? Why is this so difficult? I'm gonna bend over, no, I'm gonna see this coming. And I'm gonna let them, and I'm gonna let them have their tantrum because I know that they always do. And I'm gonna let them huff and puff

because I know they always do. And then I'm gonna let me not buy into it. Because I'm going to let them huff and puff because I know they always do, and then I'm going to let me not buy into it. Because I'm now accepting this and creating space between this person and me and recognizing it's not my job to change this person. It's my job to change me. And I got to tell you, it has helped put so much in business too, because in business, you can get too focused on what you think the other person wants, that you actually out-negotiate yourself.

Yeah. Versus letting people play the game, letting people lowball you, letting people like, you know, change the terms of the deal or try to. Waste your time. Waste your time. Let them. Let me say no to this. I don't need to get all emotional about what's happening because I know what, like I know what I want my pay to be or my deal

terms to be or whatever. So stop focusing on what the other person is doing and getting all worked up about it. Let them be who they are. They're revealing something important to you. You know I was just on a call last night for a big, for a potential role in a company that's doing dynamite that would be a big partnership. And we have this huge pie in the sky conversation that was just absolutely fabulous. And it was like about big things, equity and the potential of something. Throughout the call, the person kept pushing me to do some stuff on social media right away. And the first time they said it, I just responded and I was like, well, you know,

I don't really consider myself an affiliate marketer or an influencer. Like, if you can't understand the size of the platform and the actual conversation we're having, that's a problem. And then they kept bringing it up and kept bringing it up. And I felt myself getting annoyed. And I was sort of like, hold on Mel, let them. Because they're revealing to you something very important about what they actually value. And they're revealing to you what they would be like as a partner.

And this is extraordinarily important data that you're going to miss if you allow yourself to get all worked up. I had no doubt this would happen, but Mel really came and swung in. When we come back from this word from our sponsors, we're talking more about the let them theory, especially the let me part,

when it comes to setting boundaries with the people we love in our lives. Stay tuned. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online. If you need a website, you got to use Squarespace. We've all been on terrible websites that don't look pretty and don't function well and Squarespace is the place to build a beautiful website without you having to know how to

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rocketmoney.com slash FF pod. The thing that I realized about the let them theory, which I was doing before I realized the words let them. Oh, I love it. What were you doing? So what was your version? Cause this is not a new idea. I mean, this has been around since the history of time, but what's your version of it that

used to do? I don't know what was going on in my brain. I won't tell you the full story. I'm happy to tell you off mic because I will tell it in the memoir, but someday. But my parents and I have had a really tenuous relationship about my company, about my business. And there have been multiple stretches of time where we have not spoken because they have not approved of what I do.

And as an only child, especially. Is it because of political stuff? It's political stuff. It's I have a lot of opinions and I am quick to share them online. And I think for them, again, the safety. Oh, and let me guess, they get blowback because of it. Is that why? Not even that.

It's just like the, I think they think that, well, somebody's gonna come after her. Like somebody's gonna come after her, her safety's threatened. They don't curse. I've never heard them curse in my entire life. My forward in my book, my dedication in my book is like to mom and dad,

like sorry about the curse words, and like that's a joke, but like not really. It's been the most difficult thing I've ever had to do in my life, is keep making myself proud, even if I wasn't making them proud. And that has been extremely difficult, and especially like when I was 24, 25, 26, like I wanted their approval so badly. I'm an only child. They are my parents. They live an hour away. Like, it was very difficult for me.

And I just kept saying, you know what, if I go to bed at night, and we just talked to Martha Beck and we were discussing this as well, if I go to bed, you know, the head hits the pillow, and I am making someone else comfortable at the expense of my own comfort, that's not a life worth living. And I think that is the default state of women, is we make everybody else comfortable over ourselves.

We do things that even in the moment we're like, I don't want to do this. This feels weird or this feels gross or this doesn't feel genuine. But they're going to be mad if I don't. Or I'm going to have to have a hard conversation if I don't. And I just got to a point where I was like, this is what I'm doing. And it would lead to us not speaking or really, really hard. Just some of the conversations we had to have were so hurtful for me.

And I'm sure they were hurt by, you know, it was a lot of stuff for many years. And in January of this year and last year, randomly I got invited last year out to New York to tour the NASDAQ and New York Stock Exchange. And I actually rung the bell this year at the NASDAQ opening bell. Wow. Which was incredible. I flew my dad out. I flew my COO, Karina out and then 40 of our community members at her first 100K.

We invited and it was just such a cool moment. And you're exactly right. I don't think I will ever get their entire approval, right? There are certain things I still do that they don't like, but I do think they get it now. And they hadn't gotten it before. They hadn't gotten the impact. They hadn't gotten that we have impacted five million women and helped them be better with money. And like, that is my life's work.

And I think they hadn't fully understood. So we went years. And back to my original point, what I realized over and over and over again is I think the first let them is pretty easy. Like, it's hard, but it's like, oh, let them, let them, and then let me. But I had to do it over and over and over.

I did it for years and have to continue doing it. And I think if we can talk about that for a little bit. Again, you discover Mel, I discover, let them, I've got the book right here on my desk. And it's like, oh, Epiphany, great. I'll let them and then let me. What happens when you have to do this as a practice? What happens when you have to do this as a practice? You do have to do it as a practice. There is nothing about this that's a one-off. Right. And you know what goes viral is the easy part.

And everybody loves saying, let them, because it's very judgy. Yeah. Right? Let them go out without me. Let my parents take this. Right. It's like a little bit of high horse moment. It's like, oh, if I can let them.

Oh, and I need a high horse moment when I'm feeling really hurt, right? When I'm feeling low, I need the high horse to lift me up. And that's why it works because that kind of boost of superiority really helps when you feel defeated or hurt or in your case, unseen and unsupported. unseen and unsupported. And that boosts you for a minute, but then after you say it, there's this hollowness. And so then you go to the let me part and this is about values.

So the let me part is really pointing back to you, that even though this sucks, there are still things that I have power over. And I need to remind myself, I get to think what I wanna think about this situation with my parents. I get to do or not do what I wanna do in this moment. And I get to choose how I'm going to respond

to the very valid feelings of being hurt and frustrated and unloved and pissed off and traumatized by this disconnect with them. And, you know, as women, I agree. We end up going upstairs in our heads and explaining away all kinds of behavior in those moments. And I did it for years, too. And I think it is also, though,

something to acknowledge in yourself if you are trying to be connected to somebody who is not able to provide you with what you need and deserve, and you are still such a good and empathetic person that you're willing to wrestle around with the questions of, how do I change this? I'd like to be connected with them.

What is their experience versus my experience? And so this is where the let me park, it's very difficult as you're explaining in your story because it's about your values. It's about how much energy you have for this right now. It's about boundaries. And it's about being honest with yourself about when something is enough

and when you're still willing to take a step towards somebody. And it's never about justifying somebody else's neglect or abuse ever. And what the let them theory has helped me do, because it is a practice of recognizing every day, okay, that was a comment that was hurtful. You know, when you say let them,

they've already said the comment. So when you're saying let them, it's just a reminder to be like, I'm not gonna spend any time and energy controlling that human being. I'm gonna assess how do I wanna respond? And sometimes no response. Your silence can't be misquoted.

Sometimes the response. Your silence can't be misquoted. Sometimes the response is, this person does not have access to me for a year, right? Because I'm not dealing with this anymore. And I recognize what that- Or I'm going to walk away from every conversation. That's what my response was. When they would bring it up, I go, I'm not going to have this conversation. And then they would keep pushing. And I go, I am not interested in having this conversation. And if they would keep pushing. And I go, I am not interested in having this conversation.

And if you keep talking, I'm going to have to hang up the phone. That was the boundary I set. And again, let them let them keep talking. I can't I don't have any control over that. But then they keep talking. I have very clearly said what my response is going to be. So if you keep talking, I'm going to go, you know what? I'll talk to you and hang up the phone.

Yes. OK, perfect. And you know who hates that? An emotionally immature adult. Because an emotionally immature adult does not have boundaries with themselves. A person with a narcissistic personality style is incapable of actually stepping into your shoes and considering how you might feel. Or someone who just doesn't have the tools. They don't have the tools, the emotional tools, right?

I think narcissism gets thrown out a lot. I think there are some narcissistic people most definitely. But I think most people just don't have the tools in their tool belt to understand, oh, they're saying something that I have an emotional response to and then they get all anxious in their heads about it. Yeah. 100%.

I 1,000% agree with you, because learning how to regulate your emotions and not vomit on other people is, it took me until I learned these tools. Like, I've always wanted to be calmer. I've always wanted to not take my stress out on my family. I've wanted to not be triggered by everything because of past trauma. I haven wanted to not be triggered by everything because of past trauma.

I haven't wanted to be a control freak. I mean, who doesn't want to be more stoic? But I've never been able to access those philosophies and principles and spiritual practices and therapeutic modalities in a moment where I'm already stressed out or triggered. And so it's a skill to learn to do this. And what you're talking about,

and this is something that I want to offer to you, although I'm certain you probably know this, but in case the person who is watching this or who has chosen to listen to this and you're here with us right now, this is a visual that helped me profoundly in terms of setting boundaries with people in my life and in my family in particular, and the people that I love the most, where there's this constant mismatch. And I love the word mismatch. And I don't know if it was Dr. Nicole La Perla

who uses that word, but it's this idea that with a lot of people in your life, there can be this mismatch between what you actually need emotionally and what you need in terms of how you communicate and what they are capable of giving. And there's this incredible conversation that I believe, I've got to look this up because I keep referring to it

and I'm not sure if it's Pastor TD Jakes and Oprah Winfrey. I don't know if you've ever heard this, but it's a beautiful metaphor. He was talking to her, I believe it was her, about how there are people in life that have a quarter cup capacity for support, love, verbal affirmation, that's what they have because of their life experience,

because of their past history, because of what they got when they were a kid. It's not good, it's not bad. It just is what is, right? That's their capacity. You may be somebody that has a gallon. And what happens when you have someone in your life that has a quarter cup and you're a gallon person is that the person who has a quarter cup to give can give everything that they have to

give. And to somebody like you or me, it feels like a drop in the bucket because it is. But for them, they gave us everything. And there becomes this disconnect, and this has happened to me, because you both feel misunderstood. The person that has a quarter cup feels resentful and sad and unseen because they think they gave you everything,

and now you're ungrateful or you're asking for more or they don't even, to your point, they don't even know how because they don't have the skills. And then we're feeling completely unseen and disrespected and we don't recognize the full weight of what was given because it's not at all satiating the actual need. And I think that with parents and children in particular, because now I have a 26-year-old, a 24-year-old, and a 19-year-old, each one of them is different. And it is really interesting to have these tools in my life now and realize I have been a mismatch

for each one of my three kids at various times in their life based on my lack of skills or my lack of capacity and what they actually needed for that moment in their life. And I can own that. But to own it, it takes a level of maturity. And so what's helped me in these situations

of knowing that I'm dealing with somebody that doesn't have skills, I'm dealing with somebody that's emotionally immature. First of all, you always get to choose who's in your life or not. I don't care if they conceived you, if they carried you, if they took care of you. That is not a license for somebody to abuse you.

You get to choose who's in your life when you're an adult. That said, a lot of us choose to want to keep people in our lives even when they're challenging, because one of our core values is family, or our core values is compassion, or our core value is caregiving, or our core value is love. And so when you choose to keep somebody in your life and they're gonna have access to you,

for me, learning how to let them be who they are with their quarter cup, and recognizing that I can't make this person build the skills to expand, all I can do is learn how to have them in my life and actually be grateful for the quarter cup and not expect a drop more. I gotta tell you, in the last two years,

it is shocking how the relationships have changed because I've changed and my energy has shifted and my expectations have shifted and my emotions around it and hurt around it is so dialed down that I can just see it so clearly and It was compassion that created that boundary for me not judgment and That is how this has helped so much. And it makes you feel more peaceful and more in control of your boundaries.

Does that make sense? It makes total sense. After the break, we are talking about the classic, if they wanted to, they would, which I have problems with, and how it's not always the best way to evaluate how someone actually feels about you. And we're also talking about how to get past the anxiety of showing up or following your dreams and passions. Stay tuned.

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It doesn't mean they don't want to. But again, it's almost let them let me. It doesn't mean that they don't want it very deeply. But you get to decide, is that enough or is it not? Yeah, there's an incredible psychologist that is all throughout the book. His name is Dr. Stuart Ablon, and I cannot believe how much he's changed the way that I think about human behavior. He has been practicing at Mass General Brigham, the number one research hospital in the world.

He's a professor at Harvard Medical School. His specialty is being a psychologist working with kids who exhibit challenging behavior. And his whole philosophy is exactly what you've said. It's that when people exhibit challenging behavior, it's not an issue of will. It's an issue of skills. Skills are missing, whether it's emotional maturity or the ability to communicate what you need or processing skills or language skills, or all kinds of things that people can struggle with. And it was very striking to me to hear him say that

because when it comes to other people changing, it is true that people only change when they want to. But if you unpack the word want, there are two aspects to that. People want to change when they think it's going to work. And you know what I'm saying? And so there's a piece of discouragement that is often present. And people also want to change when they know what to do to change. And there's a lot of people who don't even know what to do. And so when you have, I don't know what to do because I don't have the skills plus I'm discouraged

that it's not gonna work, that shows up as they don't wanna change. And so I have absolutely learned and changed my opinion about it. And the way that I think about it now is that people only change when they're ready to do the work to change. That's when it happens. And in terms of where you're a priority, if people wanted to, they would. That's a very important thing to understand in dating.

That's a very important thing to understand when it comes to trying to assess where you stand with somebody, because I think the only relationships that are the ones that are very confusing is where you're confusing yourself. Because people's behavior is pretty black and white. If somebody wants to talk to you, they will reach out.

If not, they're probably busy doing other things. If a friend is excited to see you, they'll text you. If not, they're just busy doing other things. But if you start to try to interpret what other people's behavior is, you're going to get into dangerous territory, because you're either going to make assumptions about what they're doing, or you're going to make assumptions about the potential of something,

instead of just looking very clearly at somebody's behavior as the truth. And if you're constantly making an effort, right, and the second that you stop calling your sister or you stop calling your friend or you stop making the effort at work, if it's not reciprocated, that tells you something. And it can tell you a number of things. Number one, it can tell you that you're not a priority.

That's one thing it could tell you. Second thing it could tell you is, this person has a lot going on. And to your point, maybe I should give people more credit that they don't have to be on demand for me. Maybe they just have a lot going on right now. And maybe the fact that I reach out is actually one thing that's keeping them afloat.

Another thing it could tell you is, oh, I have a lot of introverted people in my life. You know, that's interesting. I have a lot of people that are just kind of don't like to make small talk or go out on Friday nights. That's a cool thing that I have people that are very creative and introverted in my life. Fourth thing I could tell you,

oh, one of my genius powers is that I actually am good at organizing people. So instead of expecting everything to be transactional, what if I just leaned into a core value that I love creating experience? I love reaching out, I love being connected. And so I'm just gonna keep on doing that without expectation that somebody needs to do it return

because it's a core value of mine. And that then, again, what I love about it is that it creates more compassion. It allows you to look at situations not as if it's always personal. And it also allows you to double down on what you want to create in your life and what your values are. And that is what puts you in the seat of control and power. And that's why this is so helpful as a tool.

I think the control thing is a huge part of our hesitancy or our frustration in our relationships. And of course, let them let me helps solve most of that. I think the other part that I love that you talk about in the book, and it's the first story you really tell, is I was scared to post on social media because I was scared of what my friends were going to think when I talked about my business,

or I talked about my dreams and I talked about my goals. Did you see Timothy Chalamet's speech at the SAG Awards? Did you see this? No. Okay, I'm gonna give you a quick rundown. He's my everything, by the way. He's my celebrity crush. I literally have like a devotional candle somewhere. I have the cardboard cut out, everything. Okay. So he gave this speech that I literally do. I could go, Mel. I need to see. I love her. You're so good. Oh my

God, woman. I love you. So no, so he gave this great speech. I thought it was fantastic. And so he won the SAG Award for the Bob Dylan role and he comes up and he's like, I want to be one of the greats. Like this award does not signify that I'm great yet, but like Viola Davis and Michael Jordan, like I am in pursuit of greatness. And the response to this speech was so ugly. It was like, who does he? Yes. Now there was the secondary response, which was like, ambition is cool now, everything, but like the initial response from a lot of people was like, it's gross, right? Like ambition was gross or wanting to be great was gross. Like who does he think he is?

Like, this is so ridiculous. And then the counter response to that was like, I don't see what the fuss is. He's not calling himself great. He says he's in pursuit of greatness. But I think that that is the manifestation of what everybody's scared of is if I show up on social media and I go, I want to start a business or I want to actually make more money or I want to be great that someone

and God forbid somebody we care deeply about is then going to come in and go, who the fuck do you think you are? So talk to me about that. I will. And I just want to validate something. Why wouldn't you want to be great? Why wouldn't you want to learn how to make more money online when you see every other influencer doing it? Why wouldn't you? That was my thought. Why wouldn't you want to live a big audacious life and to be the best you can at the thing he's chosen, which is acting. He wants to be the best he can be at that.

Why wouldn't you want that? But I mean that to the person listening. Like, as you scroll on social media and you see all these people making all this money, using social media, why wouldn't you want to learn how to do that? Like, why wouldn't you want to? Why wouldn't you want to learn how to do that? Like why wouldn't you want to learn how to invest?

So to protect your retirement. Yeah, learn how to invest. Why wouldn't you want to be smart with your money? Why wouldn't you, if you're trying to grow your real estate business, use one of the most important platforms out there to do it. Why would you rob yourself of the opportunities that your life has for you? And one of the ways that we do that to ourselves, and I'm not saying there aren't very

real obstacles in people's way, but one of the ones that's within your control is how you censor yourself online. And if you simply just think about that moment where you pull up your favorite platform, and for me it's Instagram, and let's just say that you're going to do a video about money, or you're gonna do a video about your real estate business, or you're gonna do a video

about the new online course you're selling, or you're gonna do a video about your real estate business, or you're going to do a video about the new online course you're selling, or you're going to do a video about what you've learned being part of the community of the first 100,000, right? So you're going to do this video about this thing that fires you up. You make the video. And then what do you do? You go to post it and they're like, is that the right frame in the front? And then you go to write the thing and you're like, uh, caps, no caps, delete.

How about a few emojis? Oh, is this too much? Too much? Maybe too little. Yeah. Yeah. Is caps is stupid. Like what is, what is it? And then you go to hit post and you hit draft. If you looked in your drafts, you probably have hundreds of posts of yourself in certain outfits or videos you've shot. That is the graveyard of your dreams.

Or maybe you didn't even get that far. They're all just in your brain, right? Like maybe they're not even in the Instagram draft folder. Maybe they're just, this was me. I was like, oh, I'm going to start a blog. And I talked about it for years. And then I finally sat down one day and just did it. But it's so scary.

Well, here's what I'm going to tell you, Tori, because I just hung up with my daughter and she won't mind me sharing. She's a singer-songwriter. All she wants to do is have a career where she makes it. And by making it, it means that people are inspired by her business and she can actually make money doing it, which is a very hard thing to do these days. And she knows that Instagram and TikTok are the new

Spotify. She knows that she needs to be really starting that flywheel of putting her music there and singing online and all of it. It is two years of her knowing this. And she is just torturing herself. And she's in the middle of the soup. And here's the thing about it. Nobody can make you do it. And there's a certain level of frustration and bullshit that you have to go through with yourself so that there is enough frustration and pain inside of you to actually cut through the bullshit and make you sit down and say, fuck this, I'm going to put a song up of me sitting here singing this cover.

I don't give a fuck what my sorority sisters think. And by the way, they're probably going to be the ones cheering you on. And if they aren't, let them. And that brings me to the point of how we stop ourselves. The reason why you edit yourself and you censor yourself And if they aren't, let them. And that brings me to the point of how we stop ourselves. The reason why you edit yourself and you censor yourself is because you care more about what people think than you care about what you think of what you're doing.

And the other reason why you do this is because you live your life, I used to too, believing that there is something that you can do correctly that will guarantee that people will think something. And I got news for you. It is physically impossible for you to climb up inside somebody else's head and control what one of the 70,000 thoughts a person has a day is going to be. It's impossible.

And therefore, any waste of your time and energy, bending yourself into trying to figure out what the right thing to post is so that you're guaranteed that people will like it, is a joke. Instead, I have a radical idea. Let them think something negative because that's what you're afraid of. Let them unfollow you. That's what you're afraid of. Let them roll their eyes and gossip and misunderstand you. That's what you're afraid of. Let them call out the thing you're afraid of. Give people permission to have their own experience and to have their own

opinions and then let me let me stop censoring myself let me get through my bullshit and post this stuff let me take responsibility for building the business or showing up online shit put a photo of yourself in your bathing suit instead of standing in the back of the crowd and so like my kids constantly will say to me mom my god my God, why'd you put that photo? You look hideous. I'm like, I went to the grocery store looking like that. Like, why wouldn't I put that on social media? Who the fuck am I trying to impress? Well, and when I look back at my life, do I want to have potentially been cringe or embarrassing if it meant doing something that felt good to me.

I just did a solo trip to Mexico. And first of all, solo travel, right? You constantly can be going, someone's looking at me, someone's wondering why I'm here alone. Somebody thinks I'm lonely. Somebody thinks I'm sad. I got over that a long time ago.

But the interesting thing is that every time I did say to somebody, like, oh yeah, I'm here by myself. They all went, is that every time I did say to somebody like, oh, yeah, I'm here by myself. They all went, wow, I wish I could do that. Or like, wow, good for you. And I'm like, it's not that brave, first of all, but I appreciate it. But the actual story I was going to tell is I was at dinner the last night and there was this couple, you know, there was all these couples at this like really romantic dinner and there was music and whatever. And this couple stood up and just started slow dancing. And it was, I just started crying. I took a little video of them. I ended up

going out after and I was like, I could send this to you. But they, you know, we're celebrating their anniversary and like it, no one else was dancing. It was in a restaurant. So it kind of looked weird, but like who the fuck cares? It was the most beautiful moment of like, we're here in Mexico, we're, you know, they're probably in their mid 60s, maybe 70s, they just got up and started dancing. And it's like, that's the life I wanna live. The life where like, I wanna do this,

this feels good to me. Will this be a little embarrassing? Possibly. But it's because, if it feels embarrassing, it's because I care, exactly, I care about what somebody else thinks over what I actually want to do. When we come back from this word with our sponsors, we're wrapping up our time with Mel and there's still so much she's got to share, including how to actually put the let them slash let me theory into practice. Thank you for supporting our sponsors who allow us to do this show for free. Stay tuned.

us to do this show for free. Stay tuned. What does the future hold for business? You can ask nine experts and you're going to get 10 answers. Maybe it's a bull market, maybe it's a bear market, maybe inflation's up or down and I need someone to invent a crystal ball, especially as a business owner. But until a crystal ball is invented, over 41,000 businesses have future proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud ERP, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, all into one fluid platform. With real-time insights and forecasting,

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sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com slash FF pod. Just go to indeed.com slash FF pod right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash FF pod. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Yeah, it's so sad. I wasted half of my life living like that. And there's such an easier way when you and the reason why I think this is also taken off is there's a very simple thing that I'm about to explain that once you kind of hear it, you're like, Oh my God, it's so true. You can't be sober until you stop drinking. And you cannot take control of your own life until you stop trying to control everything

and everyone around you. And the step of no longer giving power to other people's opinions and their emotions and their expectations and their moods is the step that none of us have truly highlighted was a thing we needed to do. And I had no idea how I literally had life reversed. Like I navigated my life based on people's moods

or their expectations or their happiness or their needs or what I thought that they wanted to do or trying to manage what they think. And there's such an easier way to do this, which is to flip it and let people be responsible for themselves and let them be who they are and then let me focus on myself and choose how to spend my time and energy.

And when you stop managing everybody else, and you stop torturing yourself, trying to manage everybody's opinions and disappointments, you realize you actually have a lot more time and energy that you can use to focus on the things that you've been wanting to do, but have been holding yourself back from doing. And, you know, that's the thing that has really changed stuff. And there's one other topic I wanted to go back to because I think it's really important, and that's the topic of ambition.

So one of the things that happened for me is that, you know, I always just kind of had the opinion that my partner, you know, my husband and I, that we would both work, that we would both contribute. But I had in the back of my mind that sort of stereotypical, patriarchal gender story that, okay, well, he's the one that's gonna make the money. And my money is gonna be my money to play around with and for all the extras, right? Like he's the cake, I'm the icing.

And what happened in our life is that, you know, there were times where we were even Steven, there were times where he was ahead. Then he became an entrepreneur and went into the restaurant business. And when the business started failing and we found ourselves in financial free fall, something interesting happened. First life's furious. It was this, I blamed him for everything. And we fell into this trap, or I will own,

that I fell into the trap as a woman of thinking that somehow he's responsible for providing. He's responsible for giving me what I want. And I had a lot of rage around it and a lot of blame around it. And then something interesting happened. You know, right around when we were literally about to go through bankruptcy and I had lost my job

and we're $800,000 in debt and I can barely get out of bed. You know, I had this epiphany. It's not his job. If I want barely get out of bed. You know, I had this epiphany. It's not his job. If I want to get out of debt, it's mine. Of course we're in a relationship, of course we're in a marriage, of course we're in a partnership

and we're going to work it out together. But it's not fair that I'm saddling him with my ambition. It's not fair that I'm looking at him as the only person who can get us out of this and now I'm going to be pissed that he's not fair that I'm looking at him as the only person who can get us out of this, and now I'm going to be pissed that he's not. And there was this incredible thing that happened. You know, first I was mad because I'm working three jobs, he's left the business, he's like getting sober and dealing with the shame of feeling like he failed as a father and as

a husband and lost our money and other people's money. And so he's in a world of hurt. I'm like, I got to save this house. I got to pay these bills. And in really just taking responsibility for the joint mess that we were in, something interesting happened both in our relationship, it happened for our children, it happened for me. I realized that my ambition was mine.

I realized that I loved building things. I loved making money. I loved the game of business. That was never my husband. My husband's a death doula for crying out loud now. He's a spiritual psychologist. He leads men's retreats. He does holotropic breath work sessions.

He's the exact opposite of me for crying. He has ambition when it comes to serving others. The man could live in a yurt for crying out loud. And so I was pressuring him to be somebody who he wasn't at his core over money because of gender roles. When the truth was, I was the person who actually had the ambition. And when I started to own it, something wild happened.

Number one, our kids got this incredible gift because they got to see a couple abandon what society says is a man's job versus a woman's job. They also got to see two people work through the seesaw of who's making more, who's not, who's making nothing, and to recognize that the job of being the primary parent is the important job, just like so is going out there and doing what you can do to build a business. And the other thing that happened that was incredible,

because I wouldn't be where I am today without Chris, because when my business started to take off in 2015, and I was having to travel a lot to give speeches, we were still $800,000 in debt. We still had like no savings. We were just making the ends meet, but I wouldn't have been able to be out there if he wasn't home full time. And so my kids had this incredible experience where they got to have their dad home while

they watched their mom go out and build something. And it has been this incredible thing, especially to two daughters, that if you want something in life, you have the ability to go get it. Do not look at your partner as the person who is your meal ticket. Look at yourself as being capable of building something and build a partnership with somebody so that through the ups and downs of life, you can pass the baton back and forth and do your part in supporting one another in what you do.

But really being honest with yourself about what is my ambition? What is it that I want to do? Do I want to be ambitious in the way that I'm a parent? Do I want to be ambitious the way that Chris was in volunteering at hospice and getting a certificate to become a death doula so I can sit with people near the end of their lives? Those are all forms of ambition. But it's really important, it took me a long time

to truly embrace and define what ambition looks like for me. And now I've got, like, when I look ahead, I say to myself, okay, I have absolutely reached, I think, probably the pinnacle of where I'm gonna be. Like, I hit number one, I'm fine with, like, dropping back down. Somebody else can have the spot. Like, it's like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I get it. It's amazing.

As long as it's making an impact. And I want to do less. Like, ambition for me is, how do I? Because I've always been, and I think women do this too, especially if you've had a bit of anxiety in your life or you've been sort of an over-functioning, hyper-vigilant kind of person looking around corners. I was so much about the, what's next, what's next,

more, more, more, bigger, bigger, bigger. What do we gotta do next? Oh, so-and-so is doing this, we gotta do this. That now I'm like, wait a minute, ambition would actually look like just doing the podcast and really focusing on the let them theory and slowing that down, saying no to everything else, and really being ambitious about what excellence

and artistry looks like, and having more time and space to enjoy my husband and my family and to see my friends more and to get outside and hike. That to me is my new ambition, is how I break the habit of more, more, more, more, more, bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, ah, that like craziness that we can get ourselves really into. Because, you know, I think some of the things that you teach,

it's not about the craziness and the bigness, it's about the discipline, it's about the focus, it's about the small moves that you make consistently that compound over time. And so, you know, I just wanted to talk about that because I think that there's a lot of messaging gender-wise, both for men that does not serve them, that your value is in working and your value is only if you provide. And for women, it doesn't serve us either that we think that we're supposed to be the

only person doing all of the housework and the only person doing the caregiving and also making the money. I think it's so important to talk about and it's what we've talked about on the show over and over and over again is ambition, wanting money, all of these things are not bad or wrong. You just want choices. You want options. You want flexibility. That's my entire thesis of our work is ambition is not dirty. Wanting money is not dirty.

It's not wrong. It's not immoral. You just want safety and security and the options to leave situations you don't want to be in anymore and put yourself in better ones. That's it. It's true. Okay, Mel, my last question for you. Can you walk me through the day in the life of someone who is embracing the let them theory from the moment in the coffee shop where someone

pisses you off and cuts you in line all the way to the end of your day? Like, what is the day in the life of someone look like if they embrace it? Well, from the moment that you wake up, most of us have high cortisol levels and we immediately are worried about the day ahead or something that happened last night. And so most people when they wake up, they immediately start the doom thinking and the doom scrolling. And so we haven't got to the coffee shop yet. No, not even. You're right. So, like, if you're waking up in a moment in your life where you wake up and you're bracing, say let them, and take a deep breath.

And then just kind of, I like to when I wake up with like a little panic, I put my hand on my heart and I kind of take a deep breath. And then the let me part is just like, I'm capable of getting through the day. I'm capable of taking care of myself. I'm capable of meeting this moment. I'm capable of having a good day. And then you five, four, three, two, one, get up.

And I have a simple morning routine. And so you do your morning routine, whatever that may be. And a lot of times the needs of other people are gonna stop you from doing some simple things in the morning. So if you feel drawn to your phone because you're worried there might be something on there from work, let them, let them wait five minutes.

You deserve five minutes a piece. Let me just make my bed, let me brush my teeth, let me go for a walk, let me meditate, let me do my journaling thing, let me move my body before I allow anybody on social media into my brain. And that's how it starts. When you get in the car and there's traffic,

let there be traffic. When you get to the coffee shop and the person in front of you is taking way too freaking long and you feel the volcano start and the person in front of you is taking way too freaking long and you feel the volcano start to erupt in your body, just let them. Because you have choice. You could leave the line. You could close your eyes and take a deep breath. You could call somebody while you're waiting. You could read something. You could text somebody that you care about.

You've got choice about what you do at this time. So don't let a micro moment stress you out. And it's bigger than stressing you out because the volcano that you feel or the tension that you feel is a sign that your brain is switching from the conscious part of your brain to the amygdala, which means you're now in fight or flight

over some dumb stranger taking too long at the coffee shop. And when you're in fight or flight, that means your nervous system is on edge, it means your thinking is not working properly. You've now allowed the outside world and something stupid to put you into a stress response. And you don't have to, if you say, let them. Let me just take a deep breath.

Let me ask myself, do I want to stay on this line? Yeah, because I want my coffee. Okay, great. And then it just goes from there. You know, if you have something to say at work, one of the major things that women do not do at work is we do not speak up in meetings. And it is a huge mistake to not speak up in a meeting because it is the most visible place at work.

And even if people aren't calling on you, you want to learn how to say something. And if you're introverted or shy or this is difficult for you to do, simply piggyback on somebody. Look, I just want to say, Tori, that is a fantastic suggestion. I think that's a great strategic move on our part.

Boom, we're done. You just contributed. And I say this because there's research that I know that you're aware of that the only skill or behavior change that directly contributes to a woman getting a raise or a promotion is whether or not her contributions are known. And the sad fact is,

you think that your contribution should be known by the person you are reporting to. I want you to assume from this day forward, nobody at work knows what you're working on. Because everybody's so stressed out and busy, they don't even know what they're working on. And so your visibility is your responsibility, which means you, if you want to be promoted and paid more, you need every Friday, this would be my advice to you, make it a habit every Friday to just write down all the things you did this week,

because you don't even remember all the things you did this week. The problem solved, the customers that you helped, the things that you took on that were not yours to take on. And keep a list because you're going to forget. And then before you leave for the end of the day, you're going to send at the end of the week a quick note to the person you report to, hey, these are the things that got accomplished.

These are the things that I did above and beyond. These are the things that are stalled out and this I didn't do anything on. This is my focus for next week. If there's something different that you want that is a strategic change, let me know Monday morning and I'll make that my number one thing next week. You just now did two things. You made your work visible. You also made your boss believe you are the single most important person that works for them because you made it easy for them to understand what you're doing. Mel, thank you for such an incredible conversation. Literally, we prepped a whole doc, didn't touch any of it, which means actually it's a great episode. Anytime we've done that, it's been some

of the best episodes we've ever done. So thank you. The Letham Theory is out wherever books are sold, but feel free to plug away, my friend. No, I mean, like you just got everything here. You don't need to buy the book. You don't even need to listen to the audiobook. You have the basics here. And if it feels like the serenity prayer or stoicism or Buddhism or letting go or something that you have heard somewhere else, that's exactly why this is so powerful, because it's familiar. It is what your parents said in their own ways. It is what you've heard in synagogue or church sermons or other places because learning how

to not focus on out there, but to actually take your power back and really focus on how you respond to it, this has been the truth about the human experience since the beginning of time. I've just come along with my own mistakes and lessons and my own attempts to apply these principles to my life at the age of 56 with a message that is packaged like a modern tool at a moment in history where we all need to be reminded that we do have power. We are not helpless. And there are simple things within your power that you can do that will help you make anything that you're facing

a little bit better. And you deserve that. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you. You're a fucking rock star. Oh, Mel, that was so fun. Thank you so much to Mel for joining us. You can get her number one New York Times bestselling book, The Let Them Theory, wherever you get your books. And you can join me in listening to the Mel Robbins podcast.

I believe it releases two episodes a week, and that's available wherever you're listening to this podcast right now. Thank you as always, Financial Feminists, for being here. Thank you for supporting feminist media. Thank you for sharing this episode with somebody in your life. I really appreciate it. You sharing is the easiest way to continue supporting the show and allow it to be free for you.

And we just appreciate you being here as always. I hope you have a kick ass day. I'll see you back here soon. Bye. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100K podcast. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com. If you're confused about your personal finances and you're wondering where to start, go to

herfirst100k.com slash quiz for a free personalized money plan. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap. Produced by Kristen Fields and Tamesha Grant. Research by Sarah Shortino. Audio and video engineering by Alyssa Midcalf. Marketing and operations by Karina Patel and Amanda Lafue. Special thanks to our team at Her First 100k. Kaylin Sprenkel, Masha Bakhmageva, Sasha Bonar, Ray Wong, Elizabeth McCumber, Darrell Ann Ingman, Shelby Duclos, Megan Walker, and Jess Hawks. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolf, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K community for supporting our show.