Financial Feminist - 240. Owning Your Ambition with Danielle Robay

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

If you've ever felt like your ambition made people uncomfortable—or worse, made you question your worth—this episode is for you. In this episode I sat down with journalist and content creator Danielle Robay, to talk about what it means to own your ambition in a world that constantly tries to shrink you. Dubbed The Queen of Questions, she has interviewed everyone from Taylor Swift to Michael B. Jordan, and today she’s talking with us about everything from asking better questions to navigating the spiritual cost of going after big dreams. Danielle’s links: Website:www.daniellerobay.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/daniellerobay/  Read transcripts, learn more about our guests and sponsors, and get more resources at https://herfirst100k.com/financial-feminist-show-notes/owning-your-ambition-danielle-robay/ Looking for accountability, live coaching, and deeper financial education? Check out our exclusive community! Join the $100K Club: https://herfirst100k.com/100k-pod Our favorite travel and cash-back credit cards, plus other financial resources: https://herfirst100k.com/tools Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz Special thanks to our sponsors: Squarespace Go to www.squarespace.com/FFPOD to save 10% off your first website or domain purchase. Rocket Money Stop wasting money on things you don’t use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to RocketMoney.com/FFPOD. Quince For your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from Quince. Go to Quince.com/FFPOD for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Netsuite If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, download the free e-book Navigating Global Trade: 3 Insights for Leaders at NetSuite.com/FFPOD. Masterclass Get at least 15% off any annual membership at Masterclass.com/FFPOD. Indeed Get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com/FFPOD. ResortPass Visit Resortpass.com and use code FFPOD to get $20 off your first ResortPass experience. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I know you're ambitious because you listen to this show. So let's talk about actionable strategies to unapologetically own and grow that ambition in a society that wants to keep you playing small. Today we're bringing back one of my good friends and one of our most popular guests, Danielle Robey. Confidence is what you think of yourself, but worth is what you think you deserve. Danielle is a journalist and content creator known for her open-hearted interviews. And in fact, I don't know anybody who conducts a better interview than Robey. I think living a life of curiosity in general opens up your life.

Dubbed the queen of questions, she created the best selling card game and podcast question everything, as well as Hello Sunshine's The Bright Side podcast. She has interviewed everyone from Taylor Swift to Michael B. Jordan and everyone in between. And so now I more so can go into a She has interviewed everyone from Taylor Swift to Michael B. Jordan and everyone in between. And so now I more so can go into a high pressure situation and think of something on my feet, but I couldn't do that four years ago. This episode is a must listen if you feel like your ambition is looked down upon by

your friends, by your family, by your peers. Basically if you're a woman living in a man's world, which we all are, you're going to want to listen to this. It's going to sound really corny, but I would say like 90% of accomplishing anything is believing that you can. We talk about owning your ambition, asking better questions, the impact of the media on women's mental and physical health, authenticity, and so much more. I remember thinking, this is not what I want to be thinking about all day.

Like, I don't want to be thinking about if I look good in a bikini or not. We also have the most hysterical moment that has ever happened on Financial Feminist. I don't want to spoil it for you. It's at the end of the interview, but it is, it had the entire room in tears. Danielle and I could not continue the interview. The producer and editor in the room was just dying laughing. It is one that you're going to want to hear. You're going to also want to share this episode with a friend who really needs that pep talk. So let's get into it.

But first, a word from our sponsors. You know that I know that we love saving you money on this show. So before we get into the rest of the episode, I want to give you all of the deals from our incredible sponsors that allow us to do this show free for you. This episode of Financial Feminist is sponsored in part by Squarespace, Rocket Money, Quince, Indeed, Masterclass, NetSuite, and ResortPass. Build a beautiful website to get your message out into the world with Squarespace.

Go to squarespace.com slash FFPOD to save 10% off your first website or domain purchase. Treat yourself to everyday luxury at an affordable price with Quince. Go to squinze.com slash FF pod for 365 day returns, plus free shipping on your order. Don't lose your hard earned money to forgotten subscriptions. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash FF pod. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com slash FF pod. Download the CFO's guide to AI and AI for free. You can also download the CFO's guide to AI and AI for free. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com slash ffpod.

Download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com slash ffpod. ResortPass, your savvy shortcut to everyday escape. If you're ready to upgrade your day, head to resortpass.com and use code ffpod for $20 off your first booking. Any day is a great day to start learning something new. Get an additional 15% off any annual masterclass membership

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at top hotels and resorts. So you can come for the day, hang out, go to the all-inclusive resort in Mexico, go to that really nice spa somewhere, but you don't have to pay the overnight price tag. They partnered with over 2,000 luxury hotels. There's no membership, no hassle, and passes start at just $25.

You can book a day pass in under five minutes and turn an ordinary day into something unforgettable. With 13,000 five-star reviews, I am included in that five-star review. We're here to make rest, celebration, and self-care easier than ever. Visit ResortPass.com and use code FFPOD to get $20 off your first ResortPass experience. Hi, Danielle. Hi, Tori. I'm so excited to see you. My sister.

We've had you on the show before, but it's been a while. I know. What's going on in your life? What do you do? Why is it important? I love that you cut to the chase. I really love that about you. Oh, I do.

Well, last time I was on, I think I was in a very different place in my life. I was just starting my podcast and you were already really established in podcasting. And so now everything is really different. I rebranded my podcast from Pretty Smart to Question Everything. The card game that I had launched did really well. And so we're doing several iterations of it.

We're coming out this year with a dating pack, a girls night in pack. I'm doing a collab card game with Gloria Steinem, which is pretty amazing. And Keely Catwell's of Making Space. So it's the peak of my life, but the card games are really doing well. Did that come from you sitting on her couch?

Yeah, it was part of it. Keeley, who is amazing, everybody should check her out. She's the CEO and founder of Making Space. And I think she's the, if not one of the most prominent disability rights activists in the country. So she's really taught me a lot because I actually didn't know a lot about the disabled community. And she is Gloria Steinem's mentee.

And so we were on her couch in her living room, having conversation about the state of the world. And I whipped the card game out at the end. And I have to say it was the most fun part of the whole evening, because like we got to ask Gloria about her love life. It was like sleepover vibes. It changed everything.

And so Keely and I were talking after and we were like, that was so fun. Like, let's ask Gloria if she wants to do something. And it's kind of, I haven't told anybody, but. No, that's so exciting. Okay, so the first time we had you on the show, it was a great title, we'll link it, of like how to be the most important person

and the most interesting person in the room. And I think one of the things you're already talking about and is become your brand is the importance of asking really good questions. I think especially in a world and in an environment where we're just moving from thing to thing, it feels very lonely and it's difficult to like actually form relationships with people, how can questions get us to the vulnerable, beautiful kind of friendships and relationships we want to be in? I love this question so much. Thank you for asking it.

First of all, I think living a life of curiosity in general opens up your life. On the back of the card game, I have this quote that I live by that, charmed are the curious for they shall have adventure. And adventure can mean anything you want in life. But I think like the little bits of randomness that create that synchronicity in your life or those beautiful opportunities where you meet somebody who you spend the rest of your life with at a bar or out of the blue, or through a friend of a friend. It happened to you, right?

Or you meet someone in the park and it ends up turning into a book deal. Those moments usually happen if you trace it all back because of curiosity. And so I do think curiosity is a skill. It's more of a muscle than it is even a mindset. The more curious you are, the more curious you become. And it kind of pervades your entire life, which is amazing. But in terms of questions, if I can kind of go back a little and give you context, I was really depressed in 2018, 17.

And I was unemployed and just not a happy camper. And I had breakfast one day, an LA miracle happened, I had breakfast with Larry King. And he ended up really teaching me how to ask better questions. How did you get that? Was that, you sat down next to him? Was that through the media world?

Like, how was, how did that happen? I think it's one of those, I'll tell you the exact story, but I think it's, it was a, like a seed of curiosity, to be honest, because I was working at a place that I thought was my dream job. And I would go into the bathroom and cry every day at lunch and I hated it. And that's hard for two reasons.

One, you're kind of reckoning with the fact that everything you ever sacrifice for and wanted is not actually something you want. So what do you really want? And then- What is your identity if you don't want this? Right, and I'm an ambitious girl. So like my identity was really wrapped up in that.

And then secondly, you're thinking, like I'm miserable working 16 hours a day. I don't even have the bandwidth to think about what I want. And it's really tough. And I actually ended up calling in sick for a week because I was like, I'm so tired. I can't even think about what I want. Anyways, I was dating somebody and he was like, wow, you're really not well. And I was like, well, I had quit my job

and I decided I was going to use that time to take myself to grad school. So I started watching hours of Larry King, of Robin Roberts, of Bob Costas, of Barbara Walters, all the people that I thought were the best journalists in the world and taking notes. How did they move their hands? How did they transition from question to question?

And then I had to write down a list of like a thousand and one questions. Because I was like, you know, everybody thinks that they want to meet Michael Jackson or at the time, or Oprah or Michael Jordan. But if you meet them, what are you actually going to say? I think it is terrifying, like when you're trying to meet somebody

that you've respected and loved your whole life, it is like, what do you say knowing you might only have five seconds? Absolutely. And I think you're getting to the heart of something that I've learned about asking questions, which is the more practiced you are, the easier it becomes. And so now I more so can go into a high pressure situation and think of something on my feet. But I couldn't do that four years ago.

And so I was writing this list and there's no shame in that. There's even moments of course now where I still don't know what to say, that's human. But I think writing this list was part of that practice for me and the guy I was dating was like, I have a surprise for you. Meet me at Nate and Al's at 7 a.m.,

which is a deli in Beverly Hills, it's like a famous deli. And at seven in the morning, and he goes, and I know you, so be here and makeup ready. So I wake up at 5 a.m. What a smart man to do that. I don't know how smart he was ultimately, but we're grateful for this moment that he gave us. A little, a little, yeah.

Yes. So, no, he was smart. So yeah, ultimately I have breakfast with Larry King and he didn't, I didn't get one question and even though I had a bunch of questions because he was so insatiably curious, still to this day, the most curious person I'd ever met, almost like in a way that I'm not.

Like he wants the nuance and the details and the minutiae. Like, why do you like blueberries? It's like, I don't know, I don't really care. But he cared. So at the end of breakfast, I said, Larry, I didn't get to ask you any questions. Can I come back? And he was like, don't you have a job, kid?

I was like, actually, no. So he said, you're welcome anytime. And so I would have breakfast with Larry and his childhood friends. And one, it was like- I didn't know this about you. This is insane. Really? It was one of the biggest gifts of my life because he really taught me how to ask questions properly. And he would always say, you need your own show. And I was like, they're not really handing out shows like they did back in the day, Larry.

But ultimately, question everything, which is my podcast, like that voice was in the back of my head. And so in 2021, when I started, it was like, you need your own show. Okay, like how do I do this in 2021? But to get to your original question, which was so beautiful, how do we ask better questions is we start asking bad ones. It is just practice. And there's this woman, Celeste Headley, who's a beautiful interviewer and conversationalist.

And I got to interview her and she gave me a great piece of advice that I think is worth sharing. She said, if it feels intimidating, start with waiters or baristas because they are paid to interact with you. Absolutely. And so it's like low stress and you can just start asking them questions and it's truly a practice.

It's one of the things that I can point to that is probably the easiest thing I've ever done to change my life. And it is just when I'm in any sort of interaction. I hope I did it with our lovely producer sitting here today, but I always ask like, how's your day going? And it's like, it's not a good question, but the amount of especially like people getting your coffee, people at a restaurant, people who are showing you to your table, the amount of people, unfortunately, that have looked at me like, oh, my, my day's okay. And they're

like shocked. And they're like, thanks for asking. And it's just like, one, that have looked at me like, oh, my day's okay. And they're like shocked. And they're like, thanks for asking. And it's just like, one, I've had this like micro moment of connection with somebody I will probably never see again. Two, it's like, I am practicing that engagement so that if I am in a room with someone who I am like, oh my God, I want to make this moment count. To your point, it feels more like a muscle.

That's also just like a nice thing to do to somebody that like makes my day better. Hopefully that makes their day better. Well, I think people get, they feel so much pressure to be interesting in a meeting or at dinner. And really the most interesting thing is to be interested. Like it's much easier to just ask a great question

or even a mediocre question, just ask. But I'm curious what you said, like that changed your life. What prompted you thinking about asking questions? Cause a lot of people never think about it. I think it was one, I'm just kind of that person. And I would have these impulses, especially around compliments. And like, if you talk to my partner,

he kind of makes fun of me about it. But like, if I walk into a room full of strangers, most likely, and it's not even contrived, I'm not like trying, but if I see, I don't know, woman looks beautiful, this happened on my flight here. There was this woman, she was probably about 55 years old, like aging beautifully, just like had all the wrinkles and was just like so beautiful.

And I was on the train to get to my gate and I took out my AirPods. And again, I had this moment where my brain went, don't do that to her. It's like, you don't know her. You can just like, that's weird. She's gonna look at you weird. Everybody around you might hear.

And I just did it anyway. And I was just like, hey, I'm sorry. I think you're just so beautiful. And I purposely, I almost said like pretty or I almost lessened it because I was afraid that she was gonna think I was insane or hitting on her or something, she's there with her husband. And she was just like, oh, that's so nice.

And I was like, no problem. Put my AirPods back in so she knows I'm not threatening. But I have to still force myself to do it, but it's hopefully a moment that feels really good. And that sort of practice in a like non stressful situation helps me show up in the stressful situations better, but also helps me pursue all of the things I want to pursue when I have to go out and pitch myself and I have to be vulnerable. Well I also think that you're so full, like you're full of yourself in the most beautiful

way that you have so much to share. So everybody listening, I can hear them going, okay, but that sounds great, but like how do I actually like get started doing that when all of the voices in my head tell me, oh, that question is not going to be good enough or that person doesn't want to talk to you. Yes. Like, how do I do that? Okay, two things.

One, you mentioned vulnerability. Yeah. And have you ever listened to the Gottmans, John Gottmans? Oh, yeah. Okay. So there are two therapists who are married. They're brilliant. And they talk about bids for connection all the time.

So for instance, if somebody says, if your partner says, oh, look at this bird out the window, whether you're interested or not, you're supposed to accept that bid. And look, even if you're like in your phone or wanting to do something else. Because if you deny the bid, they feel hurt. It's a vulnerability. Questions are the same thing. People don't notice it, but it is a bid for connection. It is an invitation. And that's why it feels vulnerable,

because somebody can turn down your invitation. And so I think the first thing is recognizing it, that it's actually something that is a vulnerability. And so it takes courage. And I think recognizing that is really important. But secondly, pointing out something you notice is actually if you don't want to ask a question and you don't know how to engage in conversation, a compliment is actually a really great way

to strike up conversation and just say, I love those shoes. And if you want to take it one step further, I think shoes are really fun, a fun way to strike up conversation. You can say, are you, cause you're wearing Air Jordans, right? And it's like, are you a Nike girl? Do you only wear Jordans?

If someone's wearing New Balance, it's like, are you a runner? Like asking a question based on something you notice can strike up a hole and they could say, no, I'm not a runner. Knowing you two, you do this all the time. Yeah. And you probably don't even do it intentionally anymore because it's just so natural.

But even you saying that didn't feel contrived because I was like, I've seen Danielle do that shit. Like I have. Yeah, absolutely. Yes, yeah, I don't even recognize it. But even what you're wearing today is telling me a story. Like I think what people are wearing is a form of communication.

They're trying to tell you something about themselves. With your suit right now, you're telling me you're a reverent, you're funny, you're comical, and you're also stylish. Thank you, Danielle. Is there anything else you wanted to communicate? It's by an incredible company called Wild Fang that I wear almost exclusively,

and they do like non-binary clothing or like non-gendered clothing. And you're value driven. And I've been wearing them for years. Yeah, and I love the question too about the shoes because I think the natural thing for women is it's like, oh, I love those shoes, where'd you get them? Yes.

And it's like, I got these at the Nike store. That's an interesting answer to that question. But I love the like, again, what does this say about you? Yes, absolutely. Like if you don't wanna do shoes, you can say, you know, I love the like, again, what does this say about you? Yes, absolutely. Like if you don't want to do shoes, you can say, you know, I love your glasses. Did you get them here? Were they from your travels?

Yeah. You could just improv. Or like how old were you when you started wearing glasses? Yes. Yeah. Because I have stories to tell, because I was seven and I was getting glasses every six months because I couldn't see.

Oh my God. Yeah, so I've been wearing glasses forever. No, I love this. Yeah, it's just an easy way. Because I do think sometimes it's hard, you don't want to come out with a deep question, it's weird. Right. Right, like you're on the train,

you don't want to say like, you're so beautiful, why did you decide to not do Botox? Right. Why did you decide to age do bow tucks? Why did you decide to age Grace naturally? Which is kind of the question in your mind. I went through my mind, at first I was like, I was gonna compliment her wrinkles, but then the amount of time somebody's complimented me

or think it's a compliment, and then I'm going, wait, I have wrinkles, or wait, it's visible to people? So I just went with, you're so beautiful. I think like the appearance compliments sometimes, yours was generic enough that it was nice, but I think specificity is tough because it makes women actually think about their appearance more.

There's research behind that. So like clothing is a really good way. Yeah, and I think there's been a huge focus, especially for like young, about complimenting their energy or not saying, oh, you look so pretty in your little dress, but you look so confident or you seem so strong. I love that you have opinions. Yeah, you're radiating good energy.

I will say if you meet somebody in a business setting or at a dinner party, one thing that I like if I feel like at a loss, because you really don't know anything about anybody, is someone will introduce yourself to me. Hi, I'm Tori. Tori, it's so nice to meet you. I really, really like your name. Is there a story behind it?

And it's a great- And there is. Of course there's always a story. Why did your parents name you Tori? I actually named myself Danielle. No, you didn't. No, I literally did. You ready for this story?

This is so you. This is, politely fuck off Danielle. When we come back, yep, I'm sharing the story of how I named myself and Danielle did rightly call out that that's the most me story ever. But we're also talking about a tip Danielle uses to help her get what she wants out of life, the cost of her ambition, not just financially, but also her personal life and more. See you soon.

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in Italy and I am going to do a cooking intensive in Italy. And I am going to master class to make sure my knife skills are up to par. Right now, our listeners get an additional 15% off any annual membership at masterclass.com slash FF pod. That's 15% off at masterclass.com slash FF pod, masterclass.com slash FF pod. Now, OK, so my parents had two names for me.

This is a podcast exclusive. Of course you named yourself. Podcast exclusive. My parents had two names for me. It was Victoria Tori and it was Cassandra Cassie. Okay. The two names. My mom had a very arduous labor, like multi-day.

I'm so sorry, mom. And they got to the end and like they couldn't leave the hospital without the birth certificate. So apparently my dad is sitting there rocking me and they're trying to figure out a name. And so he looks at me, he's like Victoria, Tori, and apparently I just look out at him, you know, big white eyes and he goes, Cassandra, Cassie,

and I throw up all over him. And apparently he just goes up and looks at my mom and he's like, well, she named herself. She really did. So I named myself. This set the stage for your entire life. There you go. And also this is a fabulous story.

Oh, I think about it all the time. My name was Cassie, who does she, like what is she doing? No. What's she up to? You are a Victoria. I know, but even that, right? It's like, I'm not a Victoria, I'm a Tori.

You are. Right, so there you go, great question. But see, and usually people have funny, sometimes they have like, oh, my grandmother was, and you start really, that's when you connect deeply. So that's a good one for dinner parties. I love that. Okay, so I want to take us to something

that's kind of related. Neither of us feel like ambition is a dirty word. But I think there's so many women who are afraid of taking up space, whether it's connecting with people and going, again, they don't want to talk to me, I'm a waste of their time. Or if it's feeling like somebody around them is going to judge them for going for that business, for starting that thing, for wanting money. How do they get over that? Well, I'd like to say, first of all, I've been there.

Actually, a few years ago, two years ago, a friend of mine called me and we were talking about dating. And he said to me, I've always felt like a confident person. Like I always walk into a room feeling confident. I want the best for other people. I never thought I had an issue. And he said to me, you know, Danielle,

you deserve good things. And I felt kind of emotional when he said it. And then he said, confidence is what you think of yourself, but worth is what you think you deserve. And you deserve good things. I'm sorry, one more time. Confidence is what you think you deserve, and you deserve good things. I'm sorry, one more time. Confidence is what you think of yourself, but worth is what you think you deserve.

I had tears streaming down my face. He hit me because I realized I didn't have a confidence problem. I thought highly of myself. I had a worth issue. I had a worth in what I was willing to negotiate at work. I had a worth issue in relationship. And so for at work. I had a worth issue in relationship. And so for that year, I made my word of the year,

which I do every year worth, and I worked on it. So I do think your question starts with working on your worth. And that is different for everybody based on their own childhood trauma and what works for them. But I have sort of reframed things and Adam Grant talks about this a lot. You can either put things out into the world and think, oh, I'm nervous

what they're going to say or if there's weird feedback or you can put things out and think of it as self-promotion or you can put things out into the world and really have a message and have something to share and Feel as if you are making somebody's life life better Yeah, and if you frame it that way you're actually doing a service like I feel like I'm an evangelist for curiosity Yeah, I am trying to spread the word far and wide because it has made my life so much better I'm not going on podcasts talking to you about questions because I want my face on camera. I'm really doing it because I'm like,

I've tapped into something and I want you to have it. And so I think if you come at it from a service perspective, it changes the game. George Clooney talks about how when he was going on auditions, he would like always think, oh, why would they ever choose me? And like, he had this mindset, like, there's a million people that look like me in this room. Which, OK, fuck off, George Clooney, they don't.

But OK. George Clooney, have you looked in a mirror in the past 50 years? Also, like swaggy daddy, like just the most. Anyways, he talks about how he reframed it and thought, I'm a person who is competent, who shows up on time. Like I'm actually doing them a service by being really good at my job and showing up. And he was like, and that's when I started booking jobs.

So I do think that reframe is really, really important. Have you ever had trouble with your ambition or you've always, yeah? No. I know. I'm going to write a book about it, but we'll talk about that later. I love that. I think it is exactly what you were talking about is I do think you either struggle with one, the other, or maybe both.

When you're thinking of your own opportunities and how you show up, there is something to be said about like, I believe this for myself, but does everybody else believe it? Right. And so you will walk into rooms where other people don't believe it. You will be in relationships where other people don't believe it. And what I have realized is it's not confidence and self-worth, and building that muscle is not avoiding those situations because unfortunately sometimes you can't.

It shocks a lot of people to learn that like I dated bad, like I was in bad situations, not horrible, but not great situations. And I stayed and 30 year old me would not stay, but 20-year-old me did. And I think you start realizing, unfortunately, by going through it, what you will no longer accept. And so I think it is looking back on those experiences, not with shame or not, like, why didn't I go? Or why did I let somebody speak to me like that? Or why did I let a boss walk all over me? Why did I let him undercut me in salary?

And it's more just like, OK, it's the Maya Angelou. I know better, I do better now. Yes. Do you ever keep a list? Of the people who have wronged me? No. Because definitely. I don't mean a shit list. Is Ryan Howard putting me on a list?

No, I have, okay, and I don't, can you bleep out if I curse? Yeah, if you would like. Just for social media, because it's going to sound sexual and I don't, can you bleep out if I curse? Yeah, if you would like. Just for social media, because it's gonna sound sexual and I don't mean it to be. Oh, okay. I have a list per my dad's recommendation. Oh, this is gonna be really interesting where this is going.

Titled, Ways I've Been Fucked. Okay. Yeah. And it sounds weird, but he told me a long time ago, and he's so right, that every contract that I sign, I am going to make mistakes, and there are going to be ways that I got fucked. And once you get to the next contract, you are going to forget some of the ways

that you have been effed over. And so it is really important to keep, I have a Google Doc. I love this, Danielle. So that the next time I go into contract, I can look at the document and think, do I need to add any of these things? Little things like as a TV host, there's something called a lower third.

And it's like where your name pops up. How do you want your name to be shown? If your name can be shown, do you want your Instagram handle? Sometimes I've been in, that was a contract where I forgot to negotiate that, which seems like you don't have to, but I forgot, and they wouldn't put my name on screen.

And it's like, that's a huge thing, but it's, I forgot. So I keep a list. And even for relationships or for- Oh, that's a good idea. I should probably start that one. Or for your job. Both sex positions and ways to get fucked. No, but it's like probably for that, that would be so helpful. Basically, like what are my non-negotiables next time? I just did this with our attorneys.

So we just had our team retreat and it was like what are our non-negotiables in contracts? And it's I think probably the same thing for you know, any sort of job as well. Like beyond just a contract, it's like, okay, how will I be treated? If my boss does this, is that a beige flag? Is that a red flag? Is that, you know, breaking case of emergency we need to get out? Yes.

Yeah. Oh, I can't wait to read your book. We'll talk. So, speaking of ambition, you worked as a journalist. I did. Now you're hosting things all the time, including your own show, but you've talked about how there was a cost to that ambition. Can you tell me more about that?

Well, I think last time I was on the pod, we talked about the actual financial cost. Absolutely. Which was vast and still is because like I'm still constantly paying for hair and makeup and clothing and all the things. And all the compound interest you lost as well. But don't you get me started about that. That part makes me sad because I think about like all of the compound interests. But it really is a cost to my job. People expect you to show up a certain way. But I actually recently have been thinking about the spiritual personal cost of ambition.

I asked Bozema St. John on my podcast about it because she's a highly ambitious person. thinking about the spiritual, personal cost of ambition. I asked Bozema St. John on my podcast about it, because she's a highly ambitious person. And I really liked her answer. She said, it will cost you friends, it will cost you money. But also, I think it costs you, it cost me so far things that I didn't know I was negotiating.

So I have spent so much time focused on my career that I have not focused on my personal life. I focused on my personal growth. But like at one point, years ago, I didn't have a lot of friends because I didn't have time to have friends. And I fixed that because that was important to me. But like, now I don't have a man.

That is now important to me too, to go try and find one. But it just wasn't high on my list. I do think there's a lot of negotiations you don't realize you're making when you're younger. Yeah. Do you think there's seasons of your life? I do. Because I think that too.

Yeah. And I'm really glad that there were many years where dating was not my highest priority. Do you really feel that way in hindsight? Yes, absolutely. Do you think that's because you're partnered? No. I'd be giving you the same, truly, I'd be giving you the same answer if I wasn't. I think once I'm partnered, I'm going gonna have to like see how I feel. Because I

obviously love my partner. This is work. It's work. And there are so many parts about being single that are way easier. I agree with that. And I don't think the company now would be as successful as it was if I had not built it either with relationships that didn't last or during periods where I was either just dating or completely single. I'm working with a life coach who's telling me that I have to stop thinking in binary terms that I like I have to think I could be with somebody. Of all people I've had, Danielle Robay would live in the gray. I do live in the gray but I had this thing in my mind that was like... It rhymes, Robay in the gray.

Hey. I love that you know that about me. I feel seen by you right now. Well, again, the questions, it's like, okay, curiosity I think is the perfect example of like, if it's true, curiosity, it's not gonna come with judgment. Right, I agree. As someone who grew up in an extremely judgmental house,

like I had to, I still struggle with like, getting rid of the judgment. Yeah. Do you ever, do you think about like the, because sometimes judgment is my first thought, but my second thought is the one. Oh, often. Yeah, but that's the therapy. That's the 18 years of Catholic school with pretty regimented parents talking first. And then it's like, no, that wasn't the higher self version of that thought. So let's try that again. I'm really curious if you feel like there's been a cost. Because you've-

To ambition? Yeah. Also, I realized I didn't let you finish about black and white binary, because I would love to take that where it's going. Who cares, go ahead. You're the guest, dude. No, but it's where it comes to thinking.

What was your question for me? What was it? My question was- Is there a cost to ambition? Yeah, for you. Oh, yeah. Because I think the cost is different for everybody. Well, I mean, we can go high level

of the cost of being an ambitious woman. Yeah. I probably, yeah, let's call it every other day, maybe every day for being really generous. I have the constant feeling of, if I were a man, this would be way easier. And I think we all feel that way in any aspect of our lives.

But specifically, like running the kind of business I do, I'm like, oh, if a man had done the things we've been able to do, the business would be even bigger than it is. Really? Oh yeah. I never think about that. I think about that too much, unfortunately.

Because I just watch so many fucking inept men get everything. I just, like, the amount of inept men is just insane to me. Like, I'm out to my own heart. Like, I think I'm better spoken than most men. I think, like, we're smarter, like, we run a better business, but it, like, it doesn't matter. That's really interesting.

And again, I'm a white woman. Like, this is, I think, we know this is worse for women of color or for trans women. It's just like... But do you think if you get stuck in that mindset, like you start... Oh, absolutely. It makes you crazy, right? Well, yeah, because you only can control the things you can control.

I single-handedly can't change sexism, but we're going to fucking try. You helped change my relationship with money. That's nice. Your book. I appreciate that. Yeah, and so I do think that you are changing the strata. I'm trying to think if really cost of ambition. Yeah, it's also like, I don't know a sense of like,

but I don't know any other way. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, you have to follow your heart. You know, I'm just thinking I had to, I froze my eggs. That was, that cost me something. Oh. Oh, it's a cost. That's a lot.

Yeah. We haven't really talked about that on the show yet. We've been meaning to do an episode. Oh really? Yeah, how was that for you? When we come back from a word with our sponsors, Danielle is chatting more about freezing her eggs, how she sees the media influencing everything,

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You want to come back on? Yeah. I mean, we can talk about it, but also like a doctor would be interesting with a patient because I feel like they tell you two different things. Both have important information. But for instance, no one really tells you that only 3% of women who freeze their eggs actually go back to use their eggs, which is incredibly low. What? Yes.

Wait. And there's no information on the success of that 3%. So there's different reasons for it, right? Right. It's like maybe... They decide they don't want to have kids, they have kids naturally, they adopt. Yes. They maybe die before...

That's insane though. 3%. I know. And it's though. 3%. I know. And it's a lot of money. Yeah. It's like, it really is an insurance policy the way that people talk about like, you know, apartment, car, all that health insurance. Just get your eggs frozen.

Yeah. Oh man, 3% feels low. I know. It's wild. It was an interesting experience. I'm glad I did it, but man, oh man. Crazy. Yeah. H, hormones are tough. Yeah.

It's not easy on the body. Hormones are tough when I'm not shooting myself up with more hormones. Exactly. I'm about to start my period and I feel insane. I'm like, burn my entire life to the ground? Sounds great. Totally. Sounds perfect. Sounds like a Friday.

Something I wanted to talk about is, with the media background you have, what are the ways you feel like media influences how women see the pursuit of wealth? Oh, almost in every way. Doesn't media influence how we all see wealth? See most things, I think. Right? Yeah. Yeah, I've always been a big believer in like, you are what you eat, so you think about media influence how we all see wealth? See most things, I think. Right? Yeah.

Yeah, I've always been a big believer in like, you are what you eat, so you think about what you consume. I remember when I unfollowed a ton of people in media as I got older because I wanted my intellectual diet to be different. Can we talk about that for a second? Because I've been wanting to talk about that on the show. Please.

What we're talking about confidence and ambition and like getting more money and pursuing the things you want unabashedly. show. What we're talking about confidence and ambition and getting more money and pursuing the things you want unabashedly, we're not talking about the physical diet. It's like, what information are you feeding yourself? Who are you listening to? How much content are you getting into your brain

that makes you actually feel good about yourself? Even as small as what images are you looking at day to day? I remember I followed so many of these, like the early Instagram days, like Jessica Bersiaga, like these gorgeous Instagram girls. I don't know why, but early on, we all were kind of following them. And I remember thinking, this is not what I want to be thinking about all day.

Like, I don't want to be thinking about if I look good in a bikini or not. I want to be thinking, like day. Like I don't want to be thinking about if I look good in a bikini or not. I want to be thinking, like that's when I started following Adam Grant and following thought leaders who were like really making me ask myself questions, think differently. I think a media diet is really, really undervalued.

It's so important. Absolutely. So yeah, when we're thinking about wealth, like what are the stories that you think the media has told? I mean, the Girl Boss era was a tough one, right? Like I remember the stories and even, I think about images too, that we were shown of like women on magazines during that era. They were all wearing power suits. And not that I don't love a power suit. I love a power suit. I'm worried about our suit. But that's your brand.

It is. And I also like them because I dress very masculine. I don't wear a lot of dresses. That's what you're comfortable in. Yeah. But I think, and I actually think Sheryl Sandberg's Lean In got a lot of flack that it didn't deserve. Some of it. You and I should talk about that.

Some of it I understand. Yeah. But. Some of it was deserve. Some of it. You and I should talk about that. Some of it I understand. Yeah. But. Some of it was good. Some of it needed work, but. Fair. Yeah. But there were some, the chapter about women's clothing at work was so good, I thought.

She said like women were basically told to dress like men. Like you had to wear a suit. And I just, I think that imagery was harmful. Yeah. But I remember like Susie Orman was the first woman I saw talking about money on TV. Speaking of, yeah, suits. Yeah. Do you remember? That was actually my first question for you was like, my next question was like, do you

remember the first time like money was, you saw money portrayed in media? you saw money portrayed in media. Honestly, that I can remember, it was Suzy Orman, and then it was the excess of the Kardashians. Yeah. Yep. That too. So like, what did that tell you about people with money? I'm getting really like, therapist on you.

Well, I think I had multiple messages because I grew up around people who had wealth. And so I had messages, I think, growing up and I grew up around a mix of people. But I did see that. And so I saw that not everybody was, even if you had money, you weren't like living in excess in that way. I saw that not everybody was, even if you had money,

you weren't living in excess in that way. But I do think that culturally, that show and other reality shows at the time, it wasn't just them, definitely ushered an era of excess and over consumption in. Which I think we're seeing a backlash to now. Now it's all about quiet luxury. I think we are, and at the same time we aren't. Tell me more.

Well, I think we're all really voyeuristic about money. Even me who has enough now, I'm always interested in like, oh, what are really rich people buying? Or what do their houses look like? Like, oh, architectural digests is like porn for me. I'm just like, oh, show it all to me. What couch did you buy? Yeah. Ugh, Architectural Digest is like porn for me. I'm just like, oh, show it all to me. What couch did you buy? Yeah. And so I do feel like we act like we hate it,

but like million dollar below deck and like million dollar listing. And like these shows exist for a reason. Yes. Well said. We are all voyeuristic. But I also think there's an element of what like ultra wealth that we don't see. The like billionaire yacht succession wealth. Yeah. Yeah. And also like, like I've heard about these medical like experiences like this is like

going to be really trendy to go for a week and go to like a very bougie medical center where everything is tested. Uh-huh. People are flying to like Turkey to do that right now because it's cheaper. Yes. Yeah. I think-

What's the biohacking? It's all the dudes who are like, oh, I'm going to live to 140. And I'm like, okay, by never eating a burger and like having no pleasure in your life, no thank you. Well, also, do you talk about the financial element of that? Like how are you going to support yourself to 140? Oh, I didn't think about that.

More just like the cost of trying to like, I don't know, re-harvest your blood every 12 hours or whatever crazy shit they're doing now. Totally. I think that when I think about a lot of the messages that women are fed in the media, it is always like, if women have money, it's so that they can go shop more. Yeah, for sure. And it's so that they can go shop more. Yeah, for sure. And it's also very paradoxical information.

Like on one hand, it is like, for instance, with biohacking, I think for women, it's not called biohacking. It's like, oh, you're obsessed with aging and not aging. But really it's the same thing. Everything's a double standard. It's like men want to live and they're like, oh, because they want to experience more of life

and they want to like CEO harder. And they're like, yay, versus women. It's like, why do you not want to turn? Like, what is your obsession with looking young? And I'm like, well, because the entire society is built upon me looking as young as possible. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, yeah, it's very paradoxical information.

And also we think about like wealth in terms of Birkin bags. And that's like actually not how most women are thinking. Yeah, I would hope not. I know they're not. The other thing that always blows my mind, have you watched Discovery Channel recently? Do you know the shows on Discovery Channel?

I don't know, do I? Deadliest Catch. Oh yes, seen that. Okay,? I don't know, do I? Deadliest Catch. Oh yes, seen that. Okay, thank you. Oh gosh, what else? The Pawn Stars. Oh, I like that one. Yeah, and then the History Channel, what is,

oh, my dad's favorite show, the American Pickers. I don't know that one. Oh, you don't know the American Pickers? Okay, so these two guys, they go out and they drive to these random houses that are clearly planned before in the middle of Kansas, and it's hoarders. All of these guys are hoarders and they have like old cars and they have like all this antique stuff and like three garages on their farm. So the American pickers come through and they're like, oh there's that oil sign from 1950, I know exactly what that

is. Will you take 200 for it? And they're like, no I'd never sell it. And then they like buy stuff from them and then they go back to the oil sign always at the end and they're like, no, I'd never sell it. And then, you know, they like buy stuff from them. And then they go back to the oil sign always at the end. And they're like, 250. And the guy's like, yeah, sure. And the amount of times that I've been like at the gym or like I come home for Christmas or whatever, my dad's watching these shows. And the transactional relationship, the negotiation that happens is like so organic. We know exactly how much they're getting paid, again, presumably.

These other fishing shows where they're like, oh, I caught this huge fish and it would cost this amount per pound, so I made $60,000 off of this catcher, whatever. It's like, we don't talk about that as women. We don't celebrate it. There's not TV shows. Is there? No. I just had an experience yesterday where I thought about this.

I was at a lunch with two acquaintances, and one of them was saying, she was talking about her job and sharing that it was paying well. And the other one said, I'm really curious, like what's the salary? I love it. And she was like, it's good. And in my mind, I was like, just share the salary.

Well, because we're worried about judgment. Right? This is back to the original thing of like, what if I have the audacity to take up space? Is she going to be like- Do you think some of it's like evil eye? Like, it's like, don't want my life. Oh, I don't interpret it as that at all. I don't know. It's interesting. I think just we're so scared to talk about money. We're so scared that somebody else is going to judge us. Yeah. Even I'm scared of this.

The more money I make, I'm like, oh, if I buy them a wedding gift, are they going to go, well, she has more money than that. She should be buying me a better gift. That's something I'm stressed about. That's interesting. Okay, if I'm at lunch with somebody and now I know that they make $300,000 a year, do I now expect them to put down their credit card and pay for it?

Right. Are they supposed to pay for it? That's very interesting. Right. Yeah, it's confusing. I actually see the arguments for both sides. But again, men are allowed to pursue wealth. They have full TV shows about making money.

They're celebrated for being good negotiators. For women, it's either like, do not talk about it. Yeah. Or there's no reflections in media in the same way. Like, there's no pawn stars for women. Why do you think that is? Maybe selling sunset. But then it's like it furthers the trope of like women all hate each other

and they're like catty and like, yeah, and have to look a very specific way. Yeah. You have to be typically white and skinny and blonde. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, and have to look a very specific way. Yeah, you have to be typically white and skinny and blonde. Yeah. I don't know. I think, well, it's like, how long do we have to do a media dissertation here? But like, I think men are allowed to pursue money, women aren't.

It's really interesting. Yeah, I guess that's why you get backlash on TikTok. Yes, Danielle, that is why. You know. No, because- Every day I'm like looking through my phone and Tori comes up on TikTok saying like, oh, Dave Ramsey, oh.

Danielle got my contact. She's like, I got you. This is it. Okay. You have interviewed so many successful people. Yes. Why do successful people know that we don't? Well, I would consider you successful.

Okay. It's very nice, Danielle. Okay, I'm talking for the general public listening. Do you consider yourself successful? Oh, God. See what she does? It's just like, you know what? I'm a guest on your show,

but I'm gonna flip it around on you. Yes. Okay. I know it's hard to say sometimes. No, but I think I do have a lot of business success. Oh, this is so cheesy. But it's like, my tombstone should not say CEO slash founder of her first 100K. Like, hopefully, or my obituary or whatever. It's like, hopefully it is about the women we've impacted, but it's also like, she was

a loving partner. She was a kind daughter. She showed up for her friends. Yeah. Like, that is what I'd rather have. Now, do I… Your eulogy versus resume virtues. Totally.

Am I proud of the things we've accomplished as a company and that I've accomplished personally? Absolutely. But we've been on the same journey, you and I, of like, how do I find success in things that have nothing to do with work? Yeah. Like, how do I find my identity in things that have nothing to do with my output? Yeah. I don't have that answer, but I do have the successful people answer. Like, how do I find my identity in things that have nothing to do with my output? Yeah.

I don't have that answer, but I do have the successful people answer. Okay, but can I tell you one thing? Yeah. And I may have told you this before. My mentor told me this, that I am a human being, not a human doing. Yeah. Have you heard that one? Yeah.

It's a really good one. I think that was a Tony Robbins special. Oh, gross. I like it. Now I feel bad. Oh. We'll talk about that off mic too. No, I just, that one was really helpful for me. I'm just like, you know what?

Also the first two pages of The Notebook, have you read The Notebook, the book? No, no, no. Okay, have you seen the movie? Yes. Okay, I think it is in the monologue in the movie. I bring this up, somebody needs to tally up how many times I bring this up on the show,

but it was like, it's this beautiful thing of like, I didn't invent a cure for cancer. I didn't do anything special. I didn't like travel everywhere. I didn't have this grand life. I think it is in the movie. It is like, I love somebody else with my entire heart. Yes, it's so beautiful.

Ooh, that gave me chills. I know, but like that isn't that lovely. Yeah, it's really lovely. But he can say, OK, I love this other person with everything I had. Yes. And like, that's enough. I can die now. That's can say, okay, I love this other person with everything I had. Yes. And like, that's enough. I can die now.

That's okay. Anyway, what do successful people know that our listeners do not? So it's going to sound really corny. But my truth to that is that more than half, I would say like 90% of accomplishing anything is believing that you can. And they believe they can. And you don't have to agree with them. Like for instance, I'm in the podcast space, you're in the podcast space. There are really successful podcasters, way more successful than me, whose message I don't agree with, whose ethics I don't agree with, but they are living their truth.

It is true to them. And that I respect. So I think you have to think about the person you want to become because a lot of times our personal growth mirrors our professional growth. And with that, it is literally about believing that you can, like, Delulu is the Solulu. Yeah. So is it fake it till you make it? Yeah, I think so.

Yeah. I think that's going around on social media right now of like, is fake it till you make it real? Does it actually get you to where you want to be? So this can be controversial because not everybody believes it's... And anyone who knows me knows I'm a pretty real person. Yeah. But I do believe in fake it till you make it. When I first moved from Chicago to LA,

I wanted to be an entertainment reporter. I wanted to be on E, even though I thought I wanted to be Barbara Walters, but on E. Yeah. Great. To Lulu, okay. But I would be at the end of the red carpet with the worst outlet not getting paid. And all of my peers who were at the end of the carpet with me, they were competitive with me, okay?

I never saw them as my competition. I looked at the very far end of the other carpet where Julianne Arancic was standing at E News and I thought, that is my competition. I looked at the very far end of the other carpet where Julianne Arancic was standing at E! News and I thought that is my competition. And I acted and tried to dress as if I was already on E! News. I did my research as if I was already on it. And it's not necessary, maybe it was manifestation, I don't know, but I do think like you have to, and I didn't have any of the credentials or the experience, but I did fake it. And then eventually I made it. Yeah.

I don't know the other way. I mean, if anybody could show me another way, I'm open. I mean, I think that's a pretty good way. Well, I don't know if it's faking it. It's more just like, okay, how did the person or the kind of person I want to be, how did they get where I'm at? Yes. They did X, Y, Z thing. They showed up in X, Y, Z way.

Yes. Like again, Oprah is like the pinnacle of this, but like I look at very few people in this world are a better interviewer than Oprah. Yeah. And it's because like she's so present, she's so there with you. She also brings her own story in when it makes sense. And so it's like, okay, I'm not Oprah, right? But to your point about taking notes about what are they doing, you can start to emulate the

kind of people you want to embody until you feel who you feel, who is Danielle? Who is Tori? Because you're not going to be Oprah. You shouldn't try to be exactly like her. Yes. Because like, that doesn't make sense. Yes. But I think trying to emulate the kind of people you want to be,

even if it's just future you. I totally agree. And I also think for me, it was my 20s, but for somebody else, it could be any age. It's just about entering a new era. You are, as you said, you are taking these bits and pieces and trying them on for size and determining what fits and what doesn't. And sometimes it does feel fake because you're like, Oh, that's not you.

Let me take that shirt off. And you put another shirt on. And then for me, my thirties were about figuring out what shirts I wanted to keep in my closet, what I wanted to stay. Yeah. What do you want your closet to look like? Yeah. Yeah.

But I do think my mom has this line that if you wear a mask long enough, it becomes your face. So you do have to be careful about what you're trying on and for how long. That's really smart. Yeah. Mask becomes your face. Yeah. That's good. You can't be fake in it for too long.

Who is somebody that you've interviewed that you feel like is fully in their alignment? That's a great question because I can pretty easily feel when they're not. When they're not. Like I have like an inauthenticity. What shows you that they're not? What shows you that there are, what shows you that they're not? A few things.

It's hard with actors because they are used to performing. And so sometimes it's not about inauthenticity. It's about being able to snap them out of that mechanism. But I was interviewing an actor one time and like a train went by and so we had to stop down and we continued with the interview. And then my producer was sitting on the side and made a move like put their head up and The actor in the chair said, oh do we need to stop down? I

Didn't see anybody move, but they they were so aware In the not present in the space. They were so aware of their surroundings that I was like, oh, they're not really here with me Well, also if you're on a set too, I imagine you're constantly aware to a certain point of like what everybody wants from you. Yeah, but in terms of inauthenticity, I think there's a fine line between sharing your story and there's moments where it's important

to toot your own horn. But I think when people lead with ego, it's a big red flag to me that they're not comfortable in who they are. That to me is the mask. That's like the fakeness. Yeah. Yeah. Where they feel like they have to tap dance for you a little bit.

I've always loved interviewing the people that surprise me. Like I go in with One Notion and I come out. Who surprised you the most? Simon Cowell. I know that's a weird answer. We've talked about this I think on your first, he was like so nice and genuine, right? To everybody in the room. He always, he surprised me. I just interviewed Bozema St. John and she really surprised me because the woman that I had seen in the media was such a personality. And so I didn't know who I was gonna get in the interview chair.

Especially your set and like the way you approach it is like, it's beautiful, but it also weirdly is very stripped down too. It is. It feels very intimate. It's very bare bones, there's candles, like it's zen. Yeah. And she was one of my favorite interviews.

Like she was so sincere and had really good information to share. Like I was like, oh, it's cool that all of like the brain met the beauty. Yeah. For me. Yeah. Yeah. How about you? Did anyone ever surprise you?

That's a good question. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good question. Yeah, yeah. I think I'm constantly testing my own internalized bias against women. That's so awesome for you to admit, because every woman is. It's true. And so, I mean, I know you were whip smart, but even like you surprised me in many ways because... Thanks, Tor.

Yeah. Well, you're very conventionally beautiful. And I am sometimes very distrustful of women who are conventionally attractive because I'm like, okay, can we have a real conversation? I know it's not nice, but like I... And again, this is not me fishing for compliments. I know I am not conventionally attractive and I've never been.

And so when I grew up with girls who were not very nice, and so all the popular ones, the ones who were pretty and everything, I always, I grew up with a pretty severe distrust of women. I had like my girlfriends, but like it was very difficult for me. And so sometimes when I'm interviewing someone, like they surprise me because I go into it with a bias. I'm like, okay, you're really pretty and maybe you're blonde and like you're thin and like you have a really hot partner.

Like it's, so then when it's like a moment where I actually have a great conversation with them, I'm like, okay, great, cool. And I'm not proud of it, but that's often something that shocks me or surprises me. And again, I've worked through that over the past couple of years, but it still creeps in every now and again. I think that makes so much sense because I don't actually think we ever really grow out of that six-year-old or ten-year-old girl inside of us.

And we all hold those biases based on our experiences. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, I'm trying to think if there's anybody else that was really surprised me. Oh, I just interviewed Mel Robbins. And like, I know she was- Do you let them? Always, we always let them.

You can't always let them. Okay, but have you read it though? Cause it's let them and then let me. I know. And that's everybody's leaving out the let me part. Okay, but have you read it though? Because it's let them and then let me. I know. And that's everybody's leaving out the let me part. No, she just came on the show and you'd be so proud of me actually, because I was really like, she's been doing so much press for this new book. And obviously it hasn't left the number one Amazon bestseller since it came out.

It's selling like crazy. And I really wanted to have a conversation with her. It has not aired. It probably will by the time this one airs. But I really wanted to have a conversation with her. It has not aired. It probably will by the time this one airs. But I really wanted to have a conversation with her that was related to that, but that she hadn't had before. Because you know when you're on a press circuit and it's just like, you got your 10 talking points and it's just over and over and over again.

I think we had an actual really good, genuine conversation. I'm curious if it's okay to ask, what was your angle that was different? Well, I threw all my questions out the window. Wow. Because you know what, I didn't even think about this. You'd fucking love this. I hopped on.

Yeah. And I would be lying if I said that this wasn't a really intentional choice to start this way. I knew she would really respect. And especially as someone who had done the book tour process knew how exhausting it was. The moment she hopped in, I asked her, I go, how are you?

And tell me how you really are. And she goes, oh, and she started crying immediately. And I was like, we don't have to do this on mic. She goes, no, we'll do this on mic. Let's start recording. But I threw all my questions out the window. That's so cool. I don't think I maybe looked at my paper once or twice. I just got the chills on mic, like, let's start recording. But like, I threw all my questions out the window. That's so cool. I don't think I maybe looked at my paper once or twice.

I just got the chills. Yeah. And so it's like, OK, if we can start there, then we can have an actual conversation that is related to what she, you know, because I want to give her time to plug, but is not the, how to let them theory show up in their relationships. Like, I'm sure I asked that like once, like a a version of those questions, but I think for the first half hour, 45 minutes, it was just her and I going back and forth. Oh my God, I can't wait to listen to that.

I feel like you guys have a lot of crossover too. There's a lot of similarities. Oh, definitely. Yeah. I'm excited for that. Yeah. It's going to be a fun interview. That's cool.

Okay. Jada Pinkett Smith surprised me. I forgot you interviewed her. Yeah. How open was she? Because I haven't listened to that interview. At the beginning, not open. Oh, and you got her?

Like very media trained, but three-fourths of the way in. I had a girl. Yeah, she was real. But speaking of bias, the reason I wanted to interview her was because I felt like women and people had made up their mind about this person that we don't actually know the story. We kind of know the story through the lens of celebrity or Will's lens. We don't really know. And she has the talk show, but it's how much is she actually revealing about her own life?

Right. I know. So yeah. But I like having to, like, I like when we, Monica Lewinsky has a new podcast called Reclamation. Yeah. And I love that word. It's like, I love the idea of reclamation and culture because we've treated women poorly

throughout. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, have you interviewed her poorly throughout. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, have you interviewed her? No. She follows me. I'm trying to get her on the show.

She's really cool. Yeah. I don't want to dive into that, but just like the amount. Again, like- Wait, that's so interesting because I've always wondered the economic cost of what she went through and nobody ever asked about that. Oh yeah. Like how did she support herself?

She couldn't get jobs. She had to change her name on resumes and stuff. It's crazy. It how she supported herself. Well, she didn't, she couldn't get jobs. She had to like change her name on resumes and stuff. And it was bad. No, but to bring it home, I do think that there's so much of what we talk about on the show of like ways that you can control what you can control, and show up as your best self and go out and ask good questions and do all these things. And yet we still exist in a society that will try to cut you down to size,

will try to limit your opportunities. Yes. And so how, I'm not going to ask you how do you reckon with that because that's like solve patriarchy for me, but like how do you deal with that and navigate both sides of that? I think my instinct is non-judgment. Tell me more. I come into an interview knowing that I don't know anything. And so I try and give everybody a blank slate.

Even after you've done all the research and you have the paper and you have everything going? Yeah. I do. I didn't used to. Because I used to think, oh, let me size somebody up. What makes them tick? What are they like? And then I just was surprised so many times. And I realized that that's not even a great way to go into an interview. Yeah. Yeah, and I think at the individual level, we talk about on the show all the time, there's only so much you can control. And so it's like,

okay, while we work to change everything else, you may as well feel some semblance of control. Absolutely. And like, yeah, try to show up as your best self, your most vulnerable self. Yeah. And like, there will be people who burn you. Oh, yeah, of course. There's going to be people who did not deserve that vulnerability. And you just learn from that experience and you keep moving. Or you just keep being vulnerable. I don't know. That's what I'm saying. It's like, okay, all right.

I learned that the amount of times that people have been shitty to me, it's always their own shit. Oh, always. So it's like, okay, am I gonna let them take the vulnerability away? Like, no. Don't let them, see? You cannot always let them.

I'm gonna write a new book. Well, let them be shitty and then let me, Mel, I'm trying. Let them be shitty and let me decide I'm not gonna date that kind of person anymore. For the record, I think she's awesome. I just don't always believe you can let them. No, I get it.

I get it. Have you read the book? Because there are times where she talks about letting them. No. She talks about there are times where you decide, no, I'm actually not going to let them. Oh, okay. I can't kick in the back of my seat.

You can decide to let them and other times you're like, stop it. We're not doing this on an airplane for six hours. Right, yeah. No, the idea, tell me if the idea is like, don't, like the idea is- You can't control other people. That's the idea. Don't major in minor things.

Yes, oh yeah, wow. Major in major things. And that's what I like about the message. Yeah, but also just the understanding of like, okay, if you're getting frustrated when you're in line at the grocery store, like what is that actually doing? Right. Let the line be long. You can decide, hey, I'm not gonna stand in this line anymore, or I'm going to go to a different line. Right,

or I'm going to be late. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. When we come back, Daniel asked me one final question and you are not ready for the answer. Join us as we wrap up this incredible conversation. Join us as we wrap up this incredible conversation. I don't do well in the heat. Me and Seattle, we maybe get a couple 90 degree days and I am also going to Europe again this summer and I need clothes that are not gonna make me feel worse. And that's why I love everything summer that Quinn's has right now.

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A lot of people are shocked to know that her first inner K financial feminist, it's not just me. In fact, we have a team of, gosh, 17 people, I think, across not only the United States, but across the world, an all-women team. And next time we need to hire, we're looking at Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. You can stop struggling to get your job

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In fact, in the past minute I've been talking to you, 23 hires were made on Indeed according to Indeed data. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash FFPOD. Just go to Indeed.com slash FFPOD right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com. Sasha. FF pod terms and conditions apply hiring. Indeed is all you need. Danielle. Yeah. What's next for you? What's going on in your life? Um, okay. What? I'm just thinking to myself, like, what is going on? I don't know what's going on

in my life. This is your plug. Plug away. Okay. Thanks. Um, this is the part I'm not to myself, like, what is going on? I don't know what's going on in my life. This is your plug, plug away. Okay, thanks. This is the part I'm not good at. I hate self-promotion. Do you want me to promote for you? No, I'll do it. Question everything, Dak. Question everything, podcast.

Genuinely, you are one of the kindest, smartest people I know. Every time I get to see you, it is a bright spot in my life. Same, for the record. Listen to her show. If you like this show, you will like her show. Thank you.

Anything else I didn't get to. Okay, I'm going to leave everybody with one question. Ooh! What is something that every woman should try once? What was the first thing that, because you have to give your, what first came to mind. Butt stuff. Ah! Stop! your what first came to mind. But stuff. Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!

Ah! Ah! Ah! Stop! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!

Honestly, different type of show. Tanya! Tanya! Tanya! Tanya! Tanya! Tanya! Tanya!

Tanya! Tanya! That was honest to God, I don't even know why! I'm so, something's unconscious subconscious just seems like a ghost. Tori, I just want you to know that last time we cried over Damoduglover. This time we're having a different kind of meltdown. I love you so much. We're gonna have to include that and I just am so sorry for everything.

Oh God. My poor Kristin, I'm so sorry. You have everyone in the studio. I'm warm, I'm sweating. I don't even know where I just came from. Honestly, I love your vulnerability. You really, let them. But I wish I could tell you like.

Just let them. Okay, but so apparently it's my first answer. I'm a multimillionaire podcast, New York Times, Macillian author, and that's what I have to come up with. Fucking hell, I don't know, Danielle, I don't know my real answer. Wait, what was your second thought?

No, honestly, my first thought was roller coasters because I'm going to Disneyland tomorrow. That's so fun. And I've been debating, how do we get out of butt stuff and go to here? Okay, but I've been debating, you haven't been to Disneyland. Oh my God, okay. I know.

The Incredicoaster, it's like the big roller coaster. I don't like big roller coasters. But I've always thought, cause I've been at like Disneyland like 15 times and I fucking love it. And I't like big roller coasters, but I've always thought, because I've been at Disneyland like 15 times and I fucking love it. And I'm like, do I need to just do it so I can say I've done it? And I literally went to my Instagram stories.

I went to my Instagram stories today and I asked people, I was like, make a case. Should I do it? And literally it's just like 50-50. Half of people are like, you live once, try it. If you hate it, you never have to do it again. And the other people are like, why waste your time doing something

you know you're not going to like? And I was like, it's very true. So I don't know why roller coasters came in my bed and then butt stuff. Do it for the plot. I'm really curious to see if you do it or not. I'm gonna make a game day decision. Yeah, yeah, you have to let the Instagram know.

Honestly, I probably won't because I just get, I know I'm not gonna like, I've done coasters right yet and I did not like it. My answer for that question. Everything about the roller coaster now is like, is this a metaphor for the butt stop? I've done it before, I know I'm not gonna like it. I don't know.

It's too rocky. Let them as a metaphor for us. It's too up and down. What was your answer? Please redeem me. Oh God, I'm so sorry, Kristen. I'm so sorry. Okay, what was your answer? Please redeem me. I can't breathe. Oh, God, I'm so sorry, Kristen. I'm so sorry. So good. Okay. What was your answer?

Mine was... It's going to be something like... No, my first... So Buddhist and Zen and beautiful. No. My first was skinny dipping. Not so Buddhist and Zen. Okay, that's kind of scandalous. But like in the ocean, like even by yourself. Not at night because it's not safe. Oh, nude beach. Oh, K-Spa! That's my real answer.

That's my real answer. Go to a Korean spa where you're fully naked. Oh. Have you been? Yes. In LA? Because I've done them in LA. Me too.

I've done them in Seattle. I cannot recommend it enough. Because there's so many women who are like, oh, this is going to be so uncomfortable. Yeah, that's a good point. The first 20 minutes is terrifying. Yeah, yeah. And then you see everybody's hype under the sun.

You see women with tons of body hair, with no body hair, with a mastectomy. It's incredible. That's kind of cool. I took a female biology class in college and the professor showed all the different types of vulvas on screen. And it was like, whoa!

And that's kind of what a case was. One boob that's bigger than the other. It's so life-affirming. That's so great, I love that. And it's also like, where else, unfortunately, are women allowed to be naked and you're not sexualized? Great point. My second thought was have a big, deep,

overwhelming love affair, even if it's inappropriate, not meant to be, not your person, even if it's like, inappropriate, not meant to be, like not your person, just like go all in. It devastated me, but I do highly recommend. The highs are high and the lows are low. The lows were very low. No, but that's a great one. I love that one.

Well, I think also traveling by yourself or doing things alone. That's a good one. Like again, I'm going to Disneyland by myself for the third time in three years, because I fucking love it. I'm actually so- And I did invite Danielle and I'll say this on mic

and she couldn't go. I know. Well, I've never been to Disneyland, so I was really upset. And also you gave me such a beautiful invitation. I was like, I always joke that I'd like to marry Tori. I'd like to marry Danielle. Because honestly, no man has ever treated me

as well as Tori. Ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha. Can I read the text message? Yeah, yeah, that's fine. It's so hot. Also, I think we might be at time.

Hold on. How are we doing time wise? I think we have two hours. Oh, great. Danielle, you want to have some more? Yeah. How do we come back from butt stuff though? Truly?

Lordy, how do I title this episode? Okay. So Tori invites me to Disneyland in a voice note and I'm like, oh my God, I've never been. I'm so excited, but I don't know if I can yet. I have to figure out some of my schedule stuff. Are you playing the voice note? No. And then Tori goes, also, if you end up being free on that Tuesday or the weekend, I'll

handle all the planning. I'll even bring a Disney shirt. You can just show up in good shoes and we'll have a great time. Ticket on me, Red Heart." I said, please let's get married. Daniel, I packed two shirts. Just in case you changed your mind. Who are you going with?

No one, just in case you changed your mind. Or you could go. Don't feel bad, it's not meant to feel bad. No, I packed two shirts. That is so nice. It was also in case I like, I don't know what had changed my clothes halfway through the day or I don't know.

Didn't like the one shirt I brought, but I brought two shirts. That's so thoughtful. Yeah, we could have been at Disney together. We could have. It's all right, next time. Yeah, I'm actually really curious what your audience, like what everybody listening would say

to what every woman should say. No, we'll do it. If you're on Spotify, comment down below, but yeah, we'll do it when the episode comes out. I think that'd be really interesting. Because you have such an active audience. It could also be, that's your new deck. Yes.

What's everything that women should try this month? It's in there. I have, yeah, for Girls Night. The Girls Night In is gonna be really fun. But stuff, you heard it here first. God damn it. I don't know which camera's mine, but oh my God. Danielle, thank you.

I love you so much. I love you. Thank you to Danielle, both for your friendship and also for appearing yet again on the show. You can listen to our podcast, Question Everything, and The Bright Side, wherever you're listening right now. And I highly recommend checking out our card deck, Question Everything. It is such a good conversation starter for dinner parties, for getting to know somebody on a date. It's fantastic. It also makes a really great gift.

As a reminder, please subscribe wherever you're listening right now to this show. It is very expensive for us to produce, but free for you to listen. And in actuality, a very, very small amount of people who listen to the show actually subscribe and you don't want to be like everybody else. So we appreciate you subscribing to support Feminist Media. Thank you for being here as always and we'll see you back here soon. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100k podcast. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com. If you're confused about your personal finances

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