Financial Feminist - 260. Money Mistakes That Cost Me Everything (And How To Avoid Them) with Nicole Lapin

Episode Date: November 4, 2025

We all make financial mistakes, but what happens when those mistakes literally cost you everything? In this episode, I sit down with money expert, author, and host Nicole Lapin, who shares her deeply personal story of losing her home and studio in the LA fires just two weeks after giving birth—and the painful lessons she learned in the aftermath. From skipping business insurance to the emotional toll of rebuilding from scratch, Nicole gets brutally honest about the financial oversights that even experts can make, and how you can protect yourself before disaster strikes. We also talk about the realities of new motherhood, navigating shame, estate planning, and why money isn’t just about numbers—it’s about safety, security, and learning how to trust yourself again. Nicole’s links: Website: https://nicolelapin.com/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nicolelapin/?hl=en  Podcast:  https://moneynewsnetwork.com/podcast/money-rehab/ Visit ⁠https://herfirst100k.com/ffpod⁠ to stay up to date and find any resources mentioned on our show! 00:00 Intro 00:41 LA Fires & loss 01:51 Documenting for insurance 02:35 Money & safety 05:02  Insurance tips 11:11 Parenthood finances 16:37 Childcare costs 19:00 Parenting boundaries 21:41 Teaching kids money 22:41 Investing basics 25:07 Money priorities 29:40 Estate Planning 32:26 Debt & leverage 34:20 Imposter syndrome 38:57 Building your path 41:57 Financial shame Special thanks to our sponsors:Go to www.squarespace.com/FFPOD to save 10% off your first website or domain purchase. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Financial mistakes happen, but some of them are more catastrophic than others. Today, bestselling author and financial expert, Nicole Lapin, is sharing some of the biggest financial mistakes she's made, including the one that literally, quite literally, cost her everything. So you can avoid them too. A single disaster can wipe everything out if you're not thinking ahead financially. If I could go back in time, Toray, I would have just walked through my house, walked through my office, and documented everything. Nicole Lapin is the host of the daily personal finance podcast called Money Rehab and is a New York Times bestselling author. She has written several books on personal finance, including her most recent book, The Money School, 12 simple lessons to master financial markets and investing.

The best antidote to shame is truth. And to be really, really honest and look at those numbers, finally, because they're not as bad as you probably think. This is a powerful conversation about learning from your mistakes, prepping for the unexpected, un-austruging yourself from burying your head in the sand and giving yourself grace when life does not go according to plan. So anytime somebody's like, how do I create millionaire kids? I'm like, well, how are you with money? Are you hoarding? Are you spending like crazy? Are you hiding purchases? Like, they're watching everything that you're doing. Let's get into it. But first, a word from our sponsors. This newly independent podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. You know we love Squarespace.

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So you don't have to be an SEO expert either. And you can not only start a Squarespace website from a design perspective, but also buy your domain on Squarespace, which is what I did with her first 100K. Head on over to Squarespace.com slash FFPod for a free trial. And once you're ready to launch your brand new website, use offer code FF Pod at checkout to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. One of the hardest things about being a business owner is predicting the future. Even when you talk to experts, you're going to hear different responses.

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opportunities. As we continue to grow, this is going to be such a helpful resource for her first 100K for me as an entrepreneur and I think for all entrepreneurs out there. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning for free at netsuite.com slash ff pod. That's net suite.com slash ff pod. Netsuite.com slash ff pod. Okay, Nicole, we're talking about hard financial lessons today. So I want to start with, what is a financial decision you look back on and go never again? Not getting business insurance

for our brand new offices and studio. Never again. You want to tell me more about that? I do. I was pregnant last year and built our new offices. And, you know, being pregnant, is exhausting and building a whole office is also exhausting and running a company and all the things. And so I thought that I would get around to business insurance and doing like a proper process to get a bunch of bids and get the best insurance for us. But two weeks after my daughter was born in the beginning of this year, we lost our home and our studios to the LA fires. so I didn't have enough time. I'm so sorry.

I've been watching you and friends of mine. There's been so many people who have been impacted by that. And it's one of many things I want to talk about with you today. But it is an interesting thing to think about where you are a financial expert. I am a financial expert. And there's still things on our financial to-do list that, I have not done. And unfortunately for you and your family, deeply unfortunately, but maybe fortunately for us that we can learn from, it's the importance of having these things together

even if they feel deeply inconvenient or like you don't need them or, oh, I'll do that next week. So can you talk to me about that feeling that you had, which is totally understandable. I'm pregnant. I just gave birth. I have other shit to do than this, but how that often gets in the way. My daughter and I are both wearing diapers. Yes, yes. But like, life just gets in the way sometimes of these financial decisions that we know are important. Totally. There is some shame. I think, you know, it's been such a journey, but nobody ever thinks it's going to happen to them, right? I thought we were going to evacuate and we were going to come back. And the truth is, you know, a single disaster can wipe everything out if you're not thinking

ahead financially. And, you know, I think if I could go back, I would have done so many things differently. And yes, I'd love to use my platform to be really honest and say, I talk about this stuff every single day, but we can't go through and do everything. And I'm not perfect. And I have never pretended to be perfect. I love talking about all the ways I messed up. So hopefully somebody doesn't do the same thing. And if I could go back in time, Tori, I would have just walked through my house, walked through my office, and documented everything. Literally just do that today. Whoever's listening, take your phone, go through not just the expensive stuff, not just the jewelry or the valuables, but everything, like your towels, your light fixture, your

toaster, your makeup colors, by the way, I forgot all of my makeup colors because I just didn't know, right? The little things that you have to remember when you're going through inventory, you have to put together an inventory, it's gut-wrenching for your entire life, for FEMA SBA insurance and then if you don't get any of that money back you hopefully can take it off on your taxes but you're going to need to do that inventory and it is the worst I'm sorry to dive right in I'm trying to talk about the serious stuff so that we can talk about the other stuff too yeah but like what was the moment where it felt so real for you the connection between money and safety

because we talk a lot on the show about how it's not about numbers. It's not about the amount of money in the bank. It's about the deep breath you get to take because you know you're okay. And I think that for so many people, right, you talk about this, I talk about this ad nauseum, having like an emergency fund together, right? Yes, it's very practical, but it's also so that when you are in a high-stress scenario, whether that is a natural disaster or you losing your job, job or somebody in your life getting sick, the last thing you have to think about is, can I afford

it? And I imagine that that felt very acute, that connection between money and safety throughout this whole experience. 100%. We're just going to get into it. You know, I've always had housing insecurity. I watched my house being foreclosed on when I was a kid, really broken home, and never felt like I had roots or a place to call home. And so finally, and I also never thought that I would be lucky enough to have my own children. And I really had done a lot of work around the idea of what that looks like. And I did and finally had settled into a home that I loved, had just put together, the nursery, had just moved into an office walking distance so that I could have some separation

postpartum. You know, I had really tried to safeguard myself in any way possible against postpartum depression. All of that went out the window. And so it was not about what was in my bank account at all. And it never has been. It's always been, you know, that feeling, the trauma that continues to go up, and you and I have done a lot of work around this, but it never, you know, truly, truly goes away. Anyone who tells you, like, I'm over it, is lying to you. It comes up, it comes up for all of us. Even if we've done a lot for our financial life, there's always more to do and there's

always more to learn. Like, we've had a lifetime of bad habits or traumatic situations, and it's going to take a lifetime to counteract that. And so, I, you know, I, you know, I. had finally felt like I was at a place where things were really good. I talked to my therapist right before I gave birth at the end of last year. And she was like, you know what? Sometimes stuff just works out. Like sometimes the other shoe isn't going to drop. And then my first therapy session of the year, she's like, I was thinking about you. I'm sorry. Sometimes it doesn't

work at. When you think about that experience of, you know, both going through that and also almost like, it does kind of force you to reckon with your own financial trauma. I want everybody to understand that like, Nicole and I are telling you to do the right things and we're also still people where I have said on the show and I still have gotten around to it. I still don't have a will in place. And I'm trying to make time to do it. It's never a fun day. It's not a fun day. And I tell people they need to do it. And I haven't done it. And I'm confessing that to you. And it's a little embarrassing. But to show you that like this, we're people too, personal finance, even for experts. And again, this is my second

point, is still a little intimidating or is still something that sometimes feels like a chore. And you hope you don't need these things like business insurance or like a will. But eventually, that you might and you're really really thankful when you do these hard things and you were mentioning like insurance both i think on the business side but also i imagine there was so many things you learned just about navigating insurance with you know natural disaster including there's so many people who are not getting coverage now in places like california what do most people not know until they're in an emergency? I don't think anyone really reads their policy.

And I didn't. Who does, right? Right. I just assumed I had a policy. I'm covered. I'm good. It's iTunes terms and conditions. I'm just like, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll.

Yes, check the box. Got it. Totally. Who's sitting around and like reading the fine print of your insurance policy? But let me tell you I have now. And I had great coverage that was canceled, actually. the year before. And I thought a new policy was bare bones, but it was enough, and it wasn't.

And what I would have specifically looked for is this thing called additional living expenses. Do you know about this? Or have you seen this in your policy, kind of? I haven't talked about, well, it'll probably talk about this by the time. I just bought my first house. And so one of the things that I have learned a lot about is just. just how do I cover the house properly? How do I make sure I'm covered? And I believe, yeah, that was part of it of like what beyond insurance, if we've maxed that out, is this going to cover?

Is that kind of what we're talking about? Totally. And so if you are displaced from your home and you need to rent, you need a hotel, you need childcare, you need dog boarding, whatever that is, what does the policy cover of that? What is the comparable housing that that covers? What does it do above and beyond because it will do the delta of what you're currently spending and it will only give you the additional living expenses or this loss of use in your policy. So if I could go back in time, I would just make sure that that was the best it could possibly be. And again, you're right. A lot of locations, especially in Los Angeles, in Florida, are not getting properly covered. And this is a big, big issue as you talk about when buying your home. You need to

to think about this insurance component to it. And also, you know, I'll be honest, like, I thought spending a whole bunch of money on insurance for something that is probably never going to happen. Like, I barely use, you know, I barely go to the doctor, which is a whole other podcast. Right. No, but it feels like a waste of money. Yeah. Totally. We've done shows on, like, should we just take those premiums, put it in an escrow account, let that grow? And God forbid, if we need that, like, go tap into it. Yeah. And so I was sort of in that place where, I was like, this is kind of wasting money. Like just going balls to the wall with insurance might not net out.

And, God, I wish I didn't feel that way last year. And I wish I was, you know, more on top of the coverage that I ended up switching to because it wasn't ideal. I mean, we're talking about hard lessons today in this episode. I mean, I think that one is obviously pretty unimaginable. Again, you just mentioned, you're also a new mom. Perfect timing. So you have said that you were surprised by how much you didn't know about the financial side of parenting. So if someone is planning for kids or is maybe already had them, what are the top three things they need to set up right away?

So a 529 is something that you can set up before you get birth or adopt. You can set it up actually in your own name. So I would look into a 529 if that's something that's interesting to you. You can now, because of new roles, roll it over into a Roth IRA later if your kid doesn't use it. Like if we're thinking, is there actually going to be college when my daughter, who's eight months old, grows up? I have no idea. But it's not just for college.

You can use it for K to 12 tuition. if one kid doesn't use it, you can change the beneficiary to another family member or even to yourself. So I would say tax-free growth, withdrawals are tax-free, anybody can contribute, grandparents, godparents. You send this thing called a you-gift link. It's super easy. And of course, we're going to have holidays and birthdays where my daughter will get toys and other things. But I'm also going to send this link, seriously, because I wish I had stocks instead of stuff growing up. And I hope she does too, because she's going to get some. I think that's one thing that I've started doing is I do a fun gift and then the practical gift.

So I do the like Sephora gift card and then I do the however much money to their IRA or to their 529. And it's like they get the fun gift they actually want and then I'm giving them the gift for later. Okay, so what were some of the most shocking costs for you of being a parent? You're like, where do I start? Yeah. You know, I think child care is the first thing. Child care is, you know, just a larger conversation about why this is so expensive. You know, setting up my, actually, I did set up a trust.

right two days before she was born. I probably was going to have my labor break in the office, or my water break in the office of this trust attorney. That was pretty pricey to set up, but I think really important once you start having a family, I think it's really vital for a long time I was also like you. Like, I don't need a will. It's never a fun day to get a colonoscopy

or like right of will. Oh, and I know I need one. I just haven't gone around to it, even though that's an excuse I'm making, right? But yeah, I think with the house now for me, that is in a trust. And so that was something, again, I think it's a lot of these moments we have in life.

So it's like, oh, I'm about to be a homeowner. Oh, I'm about to have a child that, like, makes us get our shit together because we're so often reactive, not proactive in these situations. Totally. we look at it like we do health, you know, when there's a problem. Right. Right. We spring into action. But it's really hard to eat healthy and do prophylactic stuff when there's not a major issue. Yeah. And the same

thing goes with with finances. So we were like, wow, we're two days away from having a human child. We need to get our shit together. So we did. And that was important to me, you know, we think about trust funds as this idea that like passive money is handed off to spoiled rich kids. But it's just not the case right now. You know, I think modern trusts are really important tools used by families to do a lot, take care of aging parents, protect kids with special needs, you know, leave a legacy for your kids and your grandkids and ensure how you want this to play out. A trust is not for just the rich. It's for smart people who want to take control of what their estate plan looks like. Like, everybody has a pre-up. The state writes it.

You know, everybody is going to have a plan regardless. It's going to go through probate, which sucks. So whatever you can do to avoid that. And right now, you know, there are a lot of online platforms and estate planning lawyers that can set one up for under $1,000. Trust and Will is one that we've partnered with. Yeah. I literally just arose from cozy earth sheets. Like, we're recording this. about an hour, two hours after I woke up. And let me tell you, it has gotten cold. It has gotten cold here in Seattle out of nowhere. And it's so nice. These sheets, these blankets are so nice. And I had a friend over yesterday and I showed them to her like, like a happy mom. I was like,

look, look at this. And she like ran her hand over and she's like, oh, these are nice. If you have somebody in your life who's like really hard to shop for around the holidays, this is a great purchase, which is like you're literally buying them feeling cozy. You get 100-night sleep trials, you can try them out. And if you don't love them, return them hassle-free. And there's a 10-year warranty. And these sheets, these blankets, these are lux. These are an investment, but you do more sleeping than anything else in your life. So why not sleep on a cloud? Black Friday has come early at Cozy Earth. Right now, you can stack my code FF Pod on top of their sitewide sale, giving you up to 40% off in savings. These deals won't last. So,

your holiday shopping today. Wrap the ones you love in luxury with cozy Earth. If you love financial feminist and you're listening, so I hope you do, we've got something to take your learning even deeper from the podcast, especially if you've ever felt like personal finance is a confusing maze. My book, Financial Feminist, Overcome the Patriarchy's bullshit to master your money and build a life you love is out now. It is a New York Times bestseller that has sold nearly 300,000 copies and it is not just another financial guide. It's everything you need to get better with money step by step, but through the signature feminist lens that you know and love here at Her First 100K. There is so much in the book that we've never discussed on the

podcast. There are homework assignments. There are deep dive lessons and there's even more information that you've never heard it here on the show. You can get a copy of Financial Feminist wherever you get your books. And if you're listening on Spotify right now and are a premium member, you can get the audiobook read by me for free. You can get signed copies and learn where it's sold at Her First 100K.com slash FFPod. Okay, so you mentioned childcare. This is the one that we talk about all the time, because it's like a second rent payment or a second mortgage payment. How can parents think strategically about actually affording it that isn't Dave Ramsey's send them to a free summer camp? This is by the way,

I think, how I discovered you back in the day. Oh, is me dunking on Dave? Yes. And I was like, yes, girl, thank God. I love you. Keep going. He drives me fucking bonkers, Nicole. He's just, I just, Walmart Santa. It's just, he's driving me crazy. But, I mean, infamously, he said, I think it last year. He was like, okay, daycare's, child care is expensive. Send your kids to a free summer camp. And I was like, where are those, Dave? Show me the free summer camps. Show me where those are. And the zero credit score makes me want to blow my brains out. Oh, it's awful. So, like, how can we afford it? And this is a complex question where, you know, child care should not be this expensive. This is a systemic issue. How can parents navigate it? It shouldn't be this issue for sure.

And I think that it's really hard to navigate no matter what. It's a constant battle, especially for women, like, am I basically just working for child care? So should I be the child care? And I thought that, you know, we had savings set up and we're really fortunate to be able to afford child care, especially in the early days. We actually had a baby nurse that we saved for, and that was really important, especially like to, to safeguard against postpartum depression for me. That baby nurse also lost everything that she owned in our home, which was a whole other situation.

So we weren't prepared for that. Like, you can prepare, if you would have asked me the top 10,000 things that I was worried about, and I am a warrior, that was not one of them. And so, you know, there's no great answer to this. I don't have family to help take care of our daughter, so I needed. to really come up with my own savings that could have gone somewhere else, but you make choices with it. It's a battle every single day to be able to think about justifying what should be taken care of by the government, but it's not. Well, and what you're kind of mentioning, there's this

mom guilt when saying no to, you know, expensive activities, to like child care options, you feel like you have to do it all yourself. How do you suggest parents set financial and emotional boundaries without feeling like they're failing their kids or taking it all on themselves? Well, I mean, it's the idea of putting your oxygen mask on first is really great in theory is really hard in practice where you know financial experts will say of course invest in your own retirement invest in your own accounts before your kids because you know they can get loans right yeah right you can't take out a loan for your own retirement yeah totally end up on their couch when you're old and and need them to take care of you that's more of a burden than not contributing

to a 529 or something like that um it it's it's you know there's no easy answer to this. It's, and it's also really colored by how you grow up. And there's a lot of pressure to like do it better or do it right or do it differently or, you know, even things like changing the way that I talk about money. My daughter can't talk yet, but, you know, I think about hearing for so long, we can't afford that or money doesn't grow on trees, right? How has that colored the way we look at money. You know, instead, perhaps, could we say instead of we can't afford that, you know, we're choosing to spend our money on something else right now? Or money doesn't grow on trees. Could we say, you know, my husband talk about this, money grows when we invest it or

save it. That's where money grows. It grows in a brokerage. It doesn't grow on trees. But, you know, I think that that mindset shift is really important for parents to think about where they can see money as a tool and not a limitation. And it starts with just how you, approach it because regardless of what you do, so you could do a custodial Roth ARA, you could do an Utma, you could do a 529, all these things that, you know, we're doing for our daughter to set her up to be in a better financial situation or have better financial background than we did. But it's really how we interact with money. It's they're watching everything you're doing. So anytime somebody's like, how do I create millionaire kids? I'm like, well, how are you with money?

Are you hoarding? Are you spending like crazy? Are you hiding purchases? They're watching everything that you're doing. Yep. I have spoken a lot about the financial education my parents gave me. And it was because both of them, especially my dad, did not grow up with a lot. And so they were like, okay, we're going to teach her how to be good with money. And so I get asked like, okay, what did your parents do? Or how can I give kids my children the financial education you have? And you're exactly right. One of the best things they did is they, it was showing not telling. So it was, you know, okay, we are taking family vacations every year. And that's a priority for us. And they would have conversations of like, we're taking this vacation so we can't afford to go out to eat all the time. Or, okay, we are saving a portion of our income and teaching me how to do that and showing me that if I bought this thing, well, that was great, but I meant I couldn't have this other thing. And all of that was demonstrated to me, not just, you know, hearing one thing and then them doing another. That's amazing. Yeah, I'm very lucky. I love that for you. It's probably the

best gift they gave me, to be honest, was just so helpful. Okay, so another hard money lesson is around investing and saving. So in your new book, The Money School, you emphasize not just throwing money in, but actually understanding the stock market. For someone who is, out of debt, has an emergency fund, and is ready to invest, what is that smart first step? I think that's smart first step, first of all, some of the accounts we talked about, one of the things that I see people do is fund the account, which is an awesome first step, but not actually allocate where that money is going. I talk about this all the time, Nicole, put money into an IRA. Amazing, but not actually put that

money to work. All of these are basically, you know, vehicles, right? So you actually have to determine where the money in the 529 goes, where the money in the IRA goes, where the money in your retirement account goes. So if you're starting a brokerage for the first time, I know it sounds basic, but make sure that money is allocated, that it's not just sitting there in your brokerage because that's not investing. And so, yeah, if you're just starting out, I wish I could go back in time and, you know, put money in just a broad-based market index fund. And everybody talks about like these low-cost S&P-500 index funds. There's two kinds of index funds, right? There's of the mutual fund family and of the E-T-F family. The E-T-F family is like V-O-O or SPY or IVV, like those

types of ETFs are lower cost. And I think that paying attention to what those costs are will matter in the long run. So the mutual fund variety will just have a little bit of a higher cost an expense ratio. So if you're just starting for the first time, and that's awesome, you can put that money in there, but just make sure that that money is going to work. Yeah. And to say it a different way, I always give the example of it. It's like a gift card. Like I put $50 in the T.J. Max gift card. I need to go buy the plants and candles and throw pillows now, or else the money's just sitting there. And that's what happens is we think it's like a bank account. We put money in the Roth IRA. We put money in the 401k or in the general brokerage account, which is just a general investing account, not for any

particular purpose. And you're like, cool, I'm done because I deposited money. You have to go choose your investments. So that's what Nicole's talking about of choosing something like an index fund, which includes a bunch of different companies as opposed to just trying to like cherry pick stocks. You've also said that like the order of operations of money often gets messed up. What is that order for you? And I'm interested to hear if it's the same order that I prescribe to. The order for me has become paying myself first. It had not been that for many, many years. What's your order?

Mine is emergency fund first, always, always, always. I don't care how much debt you have. Like, it has to be. And now it is a minimum three months of living expenses before you actually move on to any other goal. I think that that's really, really important to prioritize, to me. sure that you feel safe, whatever that is for you. So, like, three to six months, if you have more precarious job, maybe a little bit longer, this is really hard to put an emergency fund in place, of course, for somebody that is struggling to put anything away. I would encourage, like,

you know, having that pay interest, too. So when you hear, like, having that in cash, I grew in an immigrant family where literally that wasn't cash. It was, like, under the sink behind the maxi pads. in green wrinkled cash bills. And I think that even that is an opportunity to start accumulating interest, right? We work so hard for our money, Tori. I just wish it returned the favor earlier in my life.

And so, yeah, even with that emergency fund, it's something that you don't want locked up in like an exotic investment, but high-yield savings account is the easiest thing you can possibly do, you know, a money market, account, easiest thing to start earning a little bit of interest on that money. And if you don't, you know, we have inflation and it's going to eat into that regardless. Totally. But I think,

you know, even when I'm looking at a how I'm going to parent or how I'm going to talk to my daughter about money, these basic things like we don't learn in school. And so that's why I wrote that book. I was so tired after so many years of saying like, why isn't this not taught in school? And so as my as my fifth book, I just did something about it. And I think that right now, because it's not in curriculum, it's incumbent on us as parents to implement just some of these basic fundamental ideas of interest. Like, can you start a family bank where there's like save, spend, share? By the way, this is not just a lesson for kids. This can be a lesson for everybody. And, you know, see how interest works and see how compounding works.

you know, yeah, I wish I would have learned that much earlier. But there are easy ways to try to, you know, think about what does investing look like for, you know, a child to, it needs to be age appropriate, of course. But it's a lesson for all of us. It's a reminder for all of us, I think, that, you know, the power of money is to use that to make more money for you. I wish I knew that. much earlier because my order of operations was to spend that money and not have it grow. When you think about the mistakes that you see people make when saving money or investing money, I think that one, it sounds like you and I both talk about a lot, which is funding the account, but not actually investing. What other mistakes are you seeing people make? I think that around, I know that this feels like, you know, a sort of subject, but I think around this idea of estate planning, I'm just really into it because of my daughter, you know, I think basic things get missed. We do a lot of proactive, helpful financial hygiene, but sometimes like a basic thing, like a, payable on death or transfer on death form at the bank or with your brokerage doesn't get filled out. These are beneficiaries. These are important, you know, we don't, we're going to live forever

and ever at the end and live happily ever after. Hopefully that's for both of us and everybody listening. But if not, you know, I think it's, you know, it's the, it's the responsible thing to do, especially if you have kids, to make sure those things are filled out. And so, some of the mistakes I see is like, okay, I had a will. I'm not going to go through probate, which is, you know, hell when you're grieving somebody that you love. Right. And then you also have to deal with the court system. So that's, you know, those are one of the things that I see, you know, around taking care of your own estate planning, even in the most basic way. Yeah. So go to the bank and get a pod or Todd.

I think one of the most common mistakes I see is exactly what you're just talking about of not putting your money in a high-yield savings account. I talk about it so much because it's so easy. It's the easiest thing you can do for your money that immediately makes it work harder for you as opposed to, yeah, keeping it in your mattress, keeping it in the bank account, your dad helped you open when you were 16. It's so, it immediately just helps with every other aspect of your money in terms of, again, the tangible of making you more money, but also like the most.

momentum of like, cool, I did something easy and simple that it had a pretty immediate impact. I want to keep going. I want to keep thinking about how I can pay off my debt. I want to keep thinking about how I can save more money. And I think that's super important. Yeah, it's the momentum. Yes, right. And it's like the building of the smart financial habits, right? Just being like, okay, I know what to do now. Yeah. And I think the order of operations too with the debt, so I was in a bunch of credit card debt. And this is, this was also quite embarrassing because I was covering financial news at the time. So there you go. Sometimes Shoemaker walks barefoot. We're real people, everybody. We are. You know, I think paying off debt in the wrong order or two. You know, I think that

some of the momentum is really important when you think about like the snowball method versus an avalanche method. For me, as soon as I needed to tackle that debt, I knew that, I needed to at least tell myself what my interest rates were. And, you know, I see that, and I understand the catharsis that can happen. Like, let's say you have $100 and you have a $100 bill that comes in for debt. And there you go. You're just going to get rid of that. It's cut it up, move on. But if it's not a higher interest rate, then it might not be the best thing to pay off next. And I was really surprised how rich people use debt as not a bad word forever and ever, you know, growing up as an immigrant. It is an asset. Family. Yeah. I would always hear like if you don't have money to buy

something, you don't buy a house, a car, anything, even big ticket items. And so once I realized that, that became truly powerful. Yeah. That is one of those things that is shameful for poor people, but smart for rich people, right? And it even gets a rebrand. Debt is called leverage when a rich person's doing it. And it's why you see Adele take out a mortgage to buy her house, even though she could afford to buy that house outright. And it's because she could be making more money in the stock market

or in other investments than tying up that amount of cash in real estate, right? So the debt ends up being cheaper and can make her more money somewhere else. Totally. And it's just a percentage game. And I started as a poetry major. So, like, I don't know. I did not know that. You know, I majored in theater. Do you know this? Gorgeous. We're both artistic nerds. Yeah. Artists trapped in the business world. But, like, I am not a math person. And I hear this a lot. I'm not a math person. Or I'm too old. Right. I'm not good with numbers. Yeah. Totally. Those are the most common three things I hear. I'm not a numbers person, I'm too old, and I don't have enough money to start.

And the numbers thing, I'm like, if I was a poetry major, if Tori was a theater major, like anyone can figure it out. But really, it's like, it's a percentage game. So if you're getting around 7% historically in the stock market, you're over year, if you're paying less than that on debt, you can take that spread or fancy word for like the difference between that and actually earn more money. So when people talk about cheap money, they just mean that they're borrowing at very low interest rates, and they're using that. So, like, for example, you know, I borrow money, and I'm looking at, like, SBA loans right now and the types of percentages there. So if I borrow money at 2%, and I take that, you know, for easy

mouth, it's $10,000. I borrow at 2%. And I put that in the market, and I get, well, right now it's rocking 10%, let's say, then, you know, $10,000. 10 minus 2 is 8% overall. And that's all it is. That's what we talk about when we're talking about leverage on big scales. You know what's better than the one big thing? Two big things. Exactly.

The new iPhone 17 Pro on TELUS's five-year rate plan price lock. Yep, it's the most powerful iPhone ever. Plus, more peace of mind with your bill over five years. This is big. Get the new iPhone 17 Pro at tellus.com slash iPhone 17 Pro on select plans. Conditions and exclusions apply. Let's make 2026 the year you get your financial shit together, okay? So if you've ever thought, it's too late for me to figure this out, or my debt feels out of control, or just thinking about my money gives me major anxiety.

And I know you've had one of those thoughts because you're listening to the show, you are not alone. That feeling of overwhelm. It is not your fault. It is baked in to a broken system that is meant to keep you stuck, playing. small and spinning your wheels. But the good news is you do not have to stay stuck. I want to give you access to my incredible free workshop, the seven-day money reset. And just one week, this workshop will help you reset your money mindset, take control of your finances. Yes, even if you feel behind and start building a clear, actionable plan for your

journey to your first 100K. This is where financial transformation begins. So don't just be a passive listener of this show. Take active ownership of your money. Together, we're going to tackle the mindset shifts and practical steps you need to feel confident about your money all in one shame-free zone. And it's totally free. Head on over to her first hundredk.com slash ffpod to sign up and take this exclusive training. See you there. One of the things that you've been very transparent about in your experience was another hard lesson about imposter syndrome. Growing up in this financially unstable household, you have already mentioned today that you've carried a ton of shame around money.

How did you go from wearing shoulder pads and hiding maxi pads under your arms at your first big girl job, which iconic, by the way, to becoming like the confident person who owns the room owns your story? Oh, what a journey. Lots of therapy, I think. Yeah. I still wear maxi pads under my armpits. Sometimes there are slightly fancier ones that are like armpit guards. I do have hyperhydrosis. might be TMI, but I do sweat quite a bit, especially when I'm nervous. But yeah, I was looking for a job when I was 18 and just needed a job. And the only one that I was offered was in business. And, you know, I needed a job. So I thought I could figure it out. And the truth is, we have figured out harder things than all this finance stuff. And so I was on the floor of the

Chicago Merck when I was 18. I thought the Merck was a mall. It was not. It was the stock exchange in Chicago. And, you know, figured it out just in the school of Hard Knocks. And at some point, you know, I went from being an imposter and not being able to speak the language, having it all sound like Chinese to me, to speaking to the world and teaching other people, I'm the least likely person to do it. And so, you know, I think it was an important journey for me to trust myself to ask basic questions, which I think a lot of people hide behind right now, you know, trying to sound fancy or trying to sound important or smart when they're asking questions. So when I continued into the business news world and was, you know, anchoring on CNBC and Bloomberg

and talking to a bunch of old rich white dudes about money, a lot of times, you know, people wouldn't stop and say, like, what does that mean? And so I knew that I had finally gotten close to the other side of imposter syndrome when I could say to a CEO or a politician, like, what does that mean, basically? And trust myself that, like, if I didn't know and I was a smart enough person, then other people watching or listening wouldn't know either. Yeah. I think that's one of my biggest issues with financial journalism and also with so many people talking about money, especially men talking about money, is it's like they withhold the gatekeeping so that they seem smart, they seem sophisticated, and that you give your money over to them.

Because if they speak to you in a way they don't understand, it makes all of this sound very complicated. and it's really not that complicated. But the jargon and the, yeah, the gatekeeping is there so that they can make money off of making you feel like you're too stupid to understand. And like, you now are building your own money network, I think probably because you were tired of like trying to fit into somebody else's model of what success looks like. So what was that turning point for you where you're like,

I'm going to do this on my own? I was 27 and at that point I was already on network news for a decade and at that point I didn't see anybody that was Susie Orman was the only one at the time and this was almost 15 years ago. I just felt like nobody was talking to women like me or my former self about money in a way that wasn't like Dave Ramsey or full of shame or like yelling at you not to buy a coffee or all of these types of things. And so I tried to jump into that space when everybody told me at the time that I would kill my career. I got into major fights with my agents at the time. They were like, okay, nice knowing you. You were on this great trajectory at this network news stuff to go on to, you know,

the Today Show and then go to the White House and then go to the nightly news. This was like the news anchor trajectory back in the day. I was like, that's not how it's going to work anymore. And so, yeah, I burned my corporate bra and I never looked back. When we're talking about all of these lessons, these hard lessons that you've learned that I've learned about money, you mentioned that the feeling of shame is there, right? And even for you now, that feeling of shame is there. This is the number one thing I encounter with our 5 million people in our community, our 5 million women, which is, I feel shame about my past choices. I feel shame that I don't know enough.

I beat myself up about decisions that I made, even if I didn't know better. How can we work through that shame in a productive way? So Brunee Brown says that there's a difference between shame and guilt, right? Guilt is they made a mistake. Shame is, I am a mistake. And, you know, I think that understanding that we all would have done better with more information is so powerful. Forgiving your former self for what she didn't know, but understanding that moving forward, now you have the tools and all these women that are listening to you have the tools to do better. So I think it's a combination of forgiveness and tough love and saying, yes, I forgive my former self, but it's not okay anymore. I can do better moving forward. That's how I've approached it. The best antidote to shame is truth. And to be really, really honest and look at those numbers finally, because they're not as bad as you probably think. You know, into stoicism too, where we

suffer more in imagination than in reality. And I would do this all the time. I would just be like, oh, my God, I'm not opening my credit report because I'm going to jail. Like, I'm just going to jail. Like, I think the letter is going to say, you're arrested. Right. You're going to die in jail. Like, we come up with crazy stories.

We all do. Our imaginations are so wild and powerful. The thing I have started telling the women in my community is, like, you think, I feel stressed about money, so I'm not going to look at it. Like, you think the money is the thing that's stressing you? The thing that's stressing you is having no idea or control about it, right? It's like getting in a car and driving without having a gas gauge. It's like, the stress is not, oh, I can see that I don't have a lot of gas.

The stress is, I could break down at any time with no cell phone reception in the middle of the night and a place I don't know on the side of the road. That's the stress. So when you're trying to prevent yourself from feeling stress about money, by not looking at it, that's actually the thing that's causing you the stress and the anxiety. It's like the second arrow idea. It's not the first arrow. I mean, we all have the bad things that happen to us. It's the thing that we add on top of that. And that's the choice, right? It's like the bad thing sucks. But how much do we add on top of that that we can, that that's

in our control because the first arrow, whatever that bad thing is, is not in our control, but how we respond to it is, and it's hard. Trust me, like, I say this and it's so easy in theory, like, when something, when you're not in the thick of something, and then when you're in the thick of something, you're like, yeah, I heard Nicole and Tori talk about this. I understand this in theory, but not, in practice, it's, it's the hardest thing you could possibly do. But, yeah, the thing that it has worked for me is that it's actually not as bad as I imagine it to be, especially with finances. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a perfect way to sum up a conversation,

which is like you do things proactively so that when you're in the moment, again, that doesn't have to be something you're stressed about or concerned about, right? It's like, you know what? I did something that felt really hard when things were more normal so that the hard thing, I can be 100% present for the hard thing as opposed to wondering how I'm going to navigate it. Totally. And like it's hard to navigate, you know, curveballs that come your way. Like I said, I tried to plan for a thousand different things that could go wrong. And, you know, worrying never prevented the bad thing that ended up happening. And I am such a warrior. Like I were worried, it doesn't matter what's in my bank account. Like it really, it still doesn't. My biggest fear has always been. And I've said this many times. Like, being broke alone and homeless and dying in the gutter. And it's irrational. It's completely irrational. It makes no sense. And what's helped me is like making the videotape go forward.

So, okay, let's assume that I am homeless, which I was this year. So my biggest fear came true. So what happens then? You know, before I was married, I would say, like, I'd live with my best friend Tracy. Like, I'd move in. And then what would happen after that? Like, I would wear her clothes or, you know, I would figure it out. And so I think, like, really sitting in those fears are the way to say, like, okay, that thing could happen for sure. I could be homeless. Even though I thought it was the most far-fetched thing on the planet, it happened to me. And we were okay. So no matter what that thing that's yours, we all have, like the greatest hits of fears. And I think it's unrealistic to say, like, well, just don't worry about that. You are. It's like, no. But it's like

recognizing. I think of it as a stream, kind of, with a bunch of logs coming down with these thoughts of rumination. Like, oh, hey, like fear of being broke alone and homeless and dying in the gutter. Nice to see you. Like, hey, you know, thinking about your ex or something like that. Right. Okay. I see you. That's a thought. And it can continue down the street. Yeah. That's right. My final question for you, how do we take these hard moments in our lives and actually learn from them? It's a brilliant question. For me, it has, God, I'm going to cry. I don't mean to Barbara Walters you. I'm sorry. Thank you so much. I have a tattoo that says there will be time.

And I remind myself that there is time for all the things you want to do, to build, to destroy, to create, to love, to all of the things that you want, there will be time to do them. And, you know, there are seasons. And the thing you can't rush is the time to heal through whatever has happened to you. So I wish you could rush that time. I wish I could get to the other side of this ick right now. I'm, like, still in the thick of it coming back to life. Of course, sure. Yeah. But I remind myself that there will be time. And I remind myself that, you know, hopefully I'll do better the next time.

I might not. But I'll do a little bit better. But also, just give yourself grace. It's like, yeah. I mean, you were in a literal perfect storm. Like you could have checked off every box. like stressful scenario in your life and then god the universe whatever you want to call it was like have a little more let's give you a little more that's that's a lot to handle and um

I love what you said earlier about just like there's there's no use in beating yourself up for past mistakes I always say like if shame works it would have worked by now like it would have worked by now if making yourself feel like a piece of shit for your previous choices or your previous mistakes would have worked to change your behavior, it would have worked by now. And so it's like, what if you offer yourself mercy and grace? And then you say, okay, I know better. I'm going to do better now. Yeah. I love that. And, you know, really trying to talk to yourself like your friends would. Yes. Yes. Or like you would to your partner, your daughter, your favorite person. Yeah. Yeah. I'm really, really, really sorry. I can't say that enough.

for everything that's happened. But I'm also so excited for the birth of your daughter and excited for a phoenix to rise from the ashes in a really, really difficult moment. You have this new book out. Please plug away. Tell people where they can find it. Thank you, Tori.

Anywhere you can get your favorite books, you can get the money school. And it's everything that I wish I learned in school and we all wish we learned in school but didn't. And it's how to gain financial independence so that, you know, when bad things, not if bad things happen, because they will, you'll be able to, you know, take one issue off the table. And if you have some bit of, you know, savings to grow, I think that in the worst case scenario, having your own back is one less thing you have to worry about. when you have to worry about everything else. Yeah, I love it. Thank you.

Thanks, Tori. Thank you to Nicole for joining us and for her vulnerability. There's something about hearing these personal stories, even if you've just heard them on the news that just hits you in a different way. And I'm so thankful both for her work and also for her sharing her story. You can get her brand new book, The Money School,

wherever books are sold. And thank you for coming on the show, Nicole. Thank you, as always, Financial Femin. is for listening to this episode. If this is an episode and a conversation that sparked inspiration for you that you want to use to spark conversation with others, please feel free to share it. And if you're watching on YouTube right now, I would love for you to subscribe so you don't miss a future episode. Thank you for being here. We'll talk to you soon. Bye. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100K podcast. For more information

about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests and episode show notes, visit Financial Feminist Podcast.com. If you're confused about your personal finances and you're wondering where to start, go to her first hundredk.com slash quiz for a free personalized money plan. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap. Produced by Kristen Fields and Tamisha Grant, research by Sarah Shortino, audio and video engineering by Alyssa Midcalf, Marketing and Operations by Karina Patel and Amanda LaFew. Special thanks to our team at her first 100K.

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