Financial Feminist - 273. How To Get and STAY Rich with Vivian Tu (Your Rich BFF)

Episode Date: February 3, 2026

If you’re making good money and still feel broke, stressed, or behind, something is off and it’s not you. Today, I’m joined by my friend Vivian Tu, former Wall Street trader, CEO and founder of Your Rich BFF, and New York Times bestselling author of Well Endowed, to talk about what it really takes to get rich and stay rich. We’re calling out why paying your bills and saving is not the finish line, how optimization culture keeps high earners trapped in a constant game of “never enough,” and how to start using your money as a tool to buy time, freedom, and real security instead of status symbols. This episode is about ditching performative wealth, building systems that quietly grow your money, and finally feeling powerful, calm, and in control of your financial life. Vivian’s links: Website: https://www.yourrichbff.com/ Grab your copy of Well Endowed: http://richbffbook.com/  Visit ⁠https://herfirst100k.com/ffpod⁠ to stay up to date and find any resources mentioned on our show! 00:00 Intro  00:51 Money traumas from childhood & the Chinese buffet story 03:17 How money narratives dictate everyday decisions 06:16 Knowing the price of everything but the value of nothing 08:14 Money as a tool to buy your best life 10:47 What comes after financial basics (Finance 2.0) 13:01 Building infrastructure vs. working harder 15:38 Strategic spending: "Do I want this or do I want people to know I have it?" 18:33 The sleep investment story 24:48 Why HENRYs (High Earners Not Rich Yet) feel stressed 28:21 The B-plus life trap & lifestyle inflation 31:24 Wasted opportunity, potential, and time 33:20 Kids will make you poorer - childcare costs 36:10 The prenup with built-in raises for childcare 37:34 Unpaid labor & the "good mom" trap 38:53 Cooking as unpaid labor vs. celebrity chef art 40:06 Speaking kindly to yourself about money 42:31 Making peace with your own financial timeline 45:07 The all-or-nothing mindset is killing progress 49:56 15 minutes is better than no minutes 50:17 Book takeaway: Chase security, stability & freedom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're doing everything right. You're making good money. You're paying off your debt. You're maybe even investing, but it still doesn't feel like enough. Today we're talking about why and how to go from financially frozen to financially fearless. On a global mission to make the financial industry accessible for all, my friend and yours, Vivian 2 is a former Wall Street trader turned expert, public speaker, host entrepreneur, New York Times bestselling author, and the CEO and founder of Your Rich BFF. And today she returns to financial feminist to talk about why paying your bills and saving isn't the finish line. It's actually just the starting point. Why optimization culture can leave high earners feeling perpetually behind. We also talk about using money as a tool to buy time,

freedom, and security, not status, strategic spending, asking, do I want this or do I want people to know I have it? And reframing the self-talk around money, perfection, and timelines. Let's get into it. But first, a word from our sponsors. This newly independent podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace was the first investment we ever made in her first 100K, and it is the thing that I probably recommend most to business owners when they ask me what tools I should use. You need Squarespace because you need a beautiful website that works. You also need SEO tools so that you can get discovered and your business can get out there, and you can post anything on Squarespace from courses to coaching, anything that you need

to sell you can do on Squarespace. Head on over to Squarespace.com slash FFPod for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch your brand new website, use offer code FF pod to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. I miss school. That may be kind of controversial to say because so many kids are like, I hate school, but I was always the kid who loves school. And I have a feeling you might have been the kid who love school too because you're here learning on this podcast. And masterclass is the best thing I've found since school. If you love learning, if you love thinking about things in a new way, if you love being the most interesting person in the room, masterclass is incredible.

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Right now, our listeners get an additional 15% off any annual membership at Masterclass.com slash FFPod. That's 15% off at Masterclass.com slash FF pod. Masterclass.com slash FF pod. Okay, Vivian, your new book starts from the idea that paying your bills and saving is just a beginning. why do so many people who are objectively doing well still feel anxious or behind financially? I think it has a lot to do with how we were raised, some of those money traumas from childhood. So in my book, well-endowed, this is literally the first story I tell. Growing up, I went to a Chinese buffet. My parents didn't have a lot of money at the time, and we were working with a shoestring budget.

So when we would go, I would immediately reach my little hand out trying to grab a piece of pizza, and my mom would slap. it away, and there was just a routine that we would have to do. First, you go to the seafood section. You wait for the people in the back to bring out the fresh crab and lobster and all of that. You eat as much seafood as you possibly can because seafood's the most expensive food. Then you move on to the meats. I'm talking beef, pork, lamb, not chicken. Chicken is cheap. Then you move on to the vegetables, but not like cheap vegetables, like broccoli. I'm talking, we're eating pea shoots or like snow peas, expensive. vegetables. And then finally, if you've eaten through all three levels of that, you could finally at the

end, maybe have some carbs and a little bit of dessert. And I think that type of optimization has basically felt like a birthright for me. But that also means that now I am still someone who to this day, even though I'm in a very different financial position now, like I feel very anxious sometimes about money and how I'm spending my money. And if it's optimized, And I don't think everybody has this, like, weird psyche. I think a lot of the money traumas that we inherit from our parents end up showing up in our lives, even though our lives and their lives might be two separate movie franchises and they have nothing in common. When you think about the stories that we're told, like, we talk so much about that in our work of, like, the money narratives you've been told.

But even just that story is so indicative. I think a lot of people, you know, getting raised around money, which is, you know, is like we go out to eat like once a month and you definitely don't order an appetizer and you're only drinking water. And if you're at a buffet, yeah, you're having the nicest thing possible that we can't get anywhere else. So can you talk about how those pervasive money narratives that we might not even realize are in the back of our minds or dictating our everyday decisions? Yeah. I mean, I think it just really, really seeps into everything that you do, right? Like if you hear from your parents, like, we can't afford that, we can't afford that, we can't afford that.

Like, you grow up thinking, you very literally can't afford that. And I talk so much about how to raise financially savvy children or even set them up for financial success in this book. But one of the biggest things is, like, I feel like you shouldn't say the phrase, we can't afford that. Like, we should be saying, no, you can't have this candy bar because there's too much sugar in it. I don't want you to spoil your dinner. But like using the cop out, if we can't afford that, or it's expensive, it really does do a number on so many people. And then in the future, you feel like you have the scarcity mindset that's really hard to get past. And I also think that there are so many opposing mindsets that get inherited. So things like, oh, well, you know, the Johnsons,

they drive a really beat up car. Like, they must be having a hard financial time. Okay. So now in my head, I think anybody who drives something that's not a Mercedes-Benz or a range rover is poor. So I think, well, I don't want to be considered poor. So then I go and spend way too much money on my first vehicle, which, by the way, depreciates 10% as soon as I whip it off the lot. And so we don't necessarily make the smartest decisions. We make the ones that we've been conditioned to make. And on the flip side of that, we see, I don't know, that the Peterson's are driving the nicest car in the block and we're like, oh, they're rich. They might be, you know, to quote that commercial from like 20 years ago and dead up to their eyeballs, right? And trying to

perform wealth. So yeah, it's the perception of all of that. And it's very easy to write that off. But you're exactly right that so much of that seeps in to the way we think about money. You said you reached this moment where you knew the price of everything, but the value of nothing, which is such a good quote. When did that realization change how you think about money now? Yeah, so I, as dutiful, Chinese daughter, only kid with immigrant parents, I sent my parents on an all-expenses-paid vacation. I paid for business class flights for them to and from Asia. They had a really, really wonderful time. And on their return flight, my parents still live in Maryland, and it's a smaller airport. So they were like, okay, let's make a pit stop in New York. Perfect. They come, they're staying with us. And the following morning, I take them out to dim some. We have a morning. We come back to. the apartment, and what do I do? I get to see my parents maybe twice a year, if I'm lucky. I whip open my laptop. I start checking emails. As much as I can appreciate that my job and those emails are the reason why I was able to pay for that vacation and pay for those flights

and pay for dim sum, it's such a shame that I can know the price of all of these things that I paid for, but I don't understand where my parents' values actually lie, what they value. And it was very clear to me when my mom made a little comment of like, oh, man, back to emails already. Like, it like broke my heart. I don't get to see them a lot. And I think they're in their late 60s, early 70s. I'm at a point where I'm counting Christmases. I'm counting birthdays.

Like, I get a finite number left with them. And it just felt crazy that in the very limited time, we have. have together, I would go straight back to working when I work for myself. You work for yourself. Like, I have the flexibility to not be doing that. And instead, I thought that would be the right thing to do. And as soon as she said that, I closed my laptop and I was like, you know what, let's go do something. Like, it completely changed my mindset of like, what is this all for? What's the point? What am I doing this for? And it's not because I want the newest lime green Lamborghini sports car, whatever. It's because I want to have the security and

stability to be able to be in charge of my own time. I want to be able to take care of the people that matter most to me. And that does include business class flights and stays at the writs and the four seasons, whatever. But like, it's not that that my parents appreciated. It was the fact that I thought of them. It's the fact that I thought to take them to dim sum, invite them to come visit me and take that take that time off of work. And I think we all have to come to a realization that one more designer shoe purchase isn't going to get you to that state of nirvana. But maybe being able to retire your parents might, and maybe being able to promise your kids and education might,

and maybe being able to go months and months and months without having an argument with your significant other over money, it might. And so this whole book really just focuses on, what can you do with your money to buy you the best life possible? That, I think, is the transformation when you start viewing money as a tool, not the end-all be-all,

but also not the thing that's your enemy. I don't have enough of it or I am so afraid to look at it or I'm so afraid to, you know, take a risk, whether that's just investing in the stock market or starting a business. The real transformation, I think, happens when you realize that money is the tool to unlock everything in your life. Yep. And that your money and your happiness and your health and the health of the people you care about radically transforms when you start using money as your best tool in your toolkit.

100% agree. I got to pivot because your book's a dick joke. Like, the title of your book is a fucking dick joke. And I love it. I think that we both approach personal finance and personal finance education with a little irreverence. So talk to me about the title of this book. Yeah.

I knew you would appreciate this one. We've been friends for so long. It's good. I feel like this is like right up your like silly, like our sense of humor. So you've heard the term well endowed. Usually it's to describe, he-he, ha-ha. We're talking about penises, we're talking about boobs, like whatever, great. But if you actually boil down the words and you think about it, well-endowed, well is describing being endowed, and an endowed is describing an endowment.

So what actually is an endowment? You've heard the phrase Harvard's endowment, or maybe a rich person donates a big pile of money to your favorite charity, your charity, your charity. now has a big endowment. An endowment, simply put, is just a pile of money and resources that can be invested and grow so that any organization's mission can be furthered into the future. And that's it. That's really simple. So the whole point of this book is I want every single person who reads it to be well endowed. I want you to be able to have your little pile of money that you invest and it grows and it buys you the life that you want so that you can have the house in the car. And if you want it, can have the happy family and relationship and the smart financially savvy kids.

And then you can have the retirement you deserve and have a good day today. All the while, at the very end of your life, you can focus on estate planning so that not only do you leave this earth better than you found it, you get to leave something behind, a little legacy to the people you care about most. All of the things you're talking about, I know everybody's on board with. But there's this misconception as, you know, you and I talk to literally millions of people, about money every day. And one of the questions I get all the time for somebody who's already investing, who was already paid off debt, who has the stable job, is that they think, okay, finance 2.0 or like 201 is going to be really complicated. And it's not as complicated as people

think it is. Like what actually comes next to the person who is like got their financial foundation in order? Yeah, I think it's really taking the hard part out of it. It's building infrastructure. I feel like for me, I have little to know willpower, and I know this about myself. And that's the reason why I have to pack my gym bag the night before. Because if the gym bag's not packed, if I'm not already wearing the yoga pants, I'm not going. In the same way that I think 2.0 or 201 finance isn't about working harder. It's about building the infrastructure to make smart decisions early on. So that's if you want a home, you got to make sure that your money is keeping up with inflation.

It's not just sitting there. It's maybe you have it in a certificate of deposit so that it can earn as much interest as possible in the two years before you need to actually make a down payment. It's, hey, I have a system to actually compare different insurance policies to see which one makes the most sense for me in my life. It's, hmm, I have a script that I can do to take to my partner and say, I would like to have a pre-up before we get married. Infrastructure for your children, whether that be a custodial Roth IRA, a foreign, a full. 529, a UTMA or UGMA account to set them up for the future. And it's, of course, building out trust, wills, like power of attorney, health care directives so that you have it all figured out.

It's not about constantly having to think about these things all day. In fact, that's the exact opposite message that I hope people take away is that 201 is so that you get to think about money less. As business owners, I think the advice that we get and that people give, which is so accurate for scaling a business, is the exact same advice, which is eventually you get to the point where you want to stop working so hard and pushing all the boulders up the hill. You want to get to a point where your revenue is more systematized, your onboarding's more systematized. And this is what we're talking about here. And I think one of the best conclusions I can take from what you just talked about is none of this is sexy.

because I think that's the common misconception is like, okay, I've built my financial plan. So now I need to hire this wealth manager who's going to like grow, you know, I'm going to pay him this fee and he's going to do all these fancy maneuvering with my accounts. And that's how I'm going to build my wealth. And it's like all of this actually, as you keep going, it loses sexiness as you go. Like it's not very exciting. Like talking about a will, talking about all of this is not very exciting, but it's the very things, like systems are not sexy. And so talk to me about, like, the feeling of, oh, this needs to be complicated in order to work. The best example I can give to everybody listening is that really truly building wealth is not staying at a hotel,

it's building a hotel. So when you stay at a hotel, there are certain white glove expectations, right? There's rooms, there's, you know, there's the housekeeper who comes in every day and cleans up after you and there is everybody who's just waiting at your beck and call for, you know, your room service order and everything is so perfect, right? You love going to a hotel. Great. You know what all that costs? Money, okay? We are not in the business of spending money. We are in the business of preserving, growing, and making money. And so when I say building a hotel, it's all about those infrastructure in that system, right? When you go to your hotel room at night and you pick up the phone, you have like 18 different buttons you can press. You want to talk to

the front desk. There's a specific situation that's going to happen there. You want to talk to concierge, different situation. Room service, different situation. Housekeeping, different situation. And so that is exactly how I think people need to think about this. You are building out those teams right now for your own financial future. So if you want to build out a healthy relationship, you got to put infrastructure in place in your relationship. You want to set your kids up for financial success while not letting them turn into dirt bags. You better start early. You better make sure you're not traumatizing them the way my parents traumatize me. And I say that like jokingly tongue and cheek, but like it's true. When you have infrastructure in place, it takes all of the guesswork out and it just

makes it easier. But the hard part is building that infrastructure. It sucks. You're going to be doing paperwork. You're going to be on calls with lawyers. You are going to be having to probably do a lot of research. And it is not the most fun experience, but you'll be certainly glad you did it. And I always say, if there is anything that you can do for yourself is just make sure that tomorrow you is not mad at today you. And I have said many times in the show that that's like real self-care. And everybody wants to talk about self-care. Like it's, you know, bubble baths and face masks and a bottle of wine and all of those things are fine, but those are self-soothing actions. Like, it's the hard shit in the moment, the things that don't feel super comfortable that make future use life better,

like having hard conversation with your partner or going to therapy or, yeah, looking at your money and creating systems for it. And Tori, you're exactly right. Like, we talk all the time now. I think going to therapy is so much more common. We're able to talk about it so freely. But like, don't you think people would be better off if they went to financial therapy, given that finances are usually number one or two in terms of stressors for people. Like, if you can eliminate one of those things, you may not feel as mentally bad as you do or emotionally bad as you do because there isn't that like monkey riding around on your back when you're at home,

when you're at work, you're constantly thinking about your bills, you're constantly thinking about your debt, you're constantly thinking about all these other things. What if you could just focus on your job? What if you could just focus on your kids? What if you could just focus on your partner? And you weren't stressed about money? I think this is one of the most tangible things you can do to practice self-care.

I think I saw a thread a couple weeks ago that were like 90% of your anxiety will go away once you're financially stable. And it's like, yeah, that's pretty true. Now, that's easier said than done in a system that actively, you know, wants to gatekeep wealth and gate keep, you know, money and there's racism and sexism and abelism and all of the other things. But at the same time, I think, especially while there's so much chaos in the world right now, Your best investment of time is your financial education.

Your best thing you can do right now to be in control of the things you can control is to take your financial education fucking seriously. 100%. You've heard me talk about Built as a loyalty program that helps you earn points on rent wherever you live, and they just leveled up even more. As of 2026, homeowners can also earn up to 1.25X points on their mortgage payments. This is thanks to Bilt's three new credit cards. the Palladium card, obsidian card, and blue card. All three turn your housing payments, rent, or mortgage into flexible rewards, so you can choose the card that fits your lifestyle without missing out on points and exclusive benefits.

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can you walk us through a strategic spending audit that someone could do this week? Yeah, absolutely. So I'm not going to give too much away. But a question that I encourage everybody listening to think about their next purchase is actually, do I want this or do I want people to know I have it? And I feel like that changed my life because when I think about a lot of the things, especially like the cult following items that people want to buy, let's take the Birken bag, for example, there are so few people on this planet who can actually appreciate a Birken bag for what it is. Those are people who are in the fashion industry.

Maybe they have a real appreciation for the leather stitching. Maybe they, you know, know the full history of Jane Birkin. and it is like a, you know, true item that they want. For most of us, I just want people to know that I can afford a burkin. I feel like being seen with a burkin is cool. But you know what else? Hold stuff just as well? Literally any other bag.

And it's also not $20,000. So I think we have to think about each and everything that we purchased and frankly, things that we've already purchased. Did I want this because I actually wanted it? Or did I want it because I wanted people to know I have it? So I'll give you two great examples of things that I actually wanted. I am a psycho about my sleep because I'm a really bad sleeper. I wake up a lot.

I have a hard time getting to bed. So me and my husband invested in a purple mattress that's like this thick, so thick, has the special waffle grid, whatever, helps your back. We have silk sheets, 100% silk sheets. Can you imagine? I feel like a seal every night when I get into bed. We have special pillows because so shameful, but I'm a front sleeper, so I smush my face all night. Oh, so I need to have a really special pillow. I have my special pillow. We have a noise machine. We have blackout shades. Like I have invested very literally thousands of dollars into sleeping better. And until now, I haven't really told anybody about that. But even if I couldn't tell anybody about it, I wake up a better person. I wake up more ready to tackle a day because I have those things.

And they were well worth the purchase, especially since I'm using them every single night for like seven to eight hours. I feel like we have to know in our lives what we are buying because we want them and what we are buying for optics. And if I'm honest with you, a lot of the things that I bought in my early 20s were all for optics. Designer Beanie. Sorry, did I think I was going to ask them every weekend? I'm not. It's itchy, by the way. The hat's not comfortable. The heels that are 18 inches high and so painful and maybe have red bottoms. I didn't need them. Like, I just wanted people to know that I had them. And so I feel like we really need to do a little introspection when we spend about how it makes us feel. And there's like, you know, a dozen other things that I ask people to question when

they are making purchases so that we are just smarter consumers. Because let me tell you, that marketing industry is insidious. I would know. I worked in it. I think a lot of people can relate to the, I'm trying to impress somebody else or I'm trying to, you know, assert my status of like, oh, yeah, I'm somebody worth, you know, respecting. I think of another version of this is I'm buying this thing to prove to myself that I have money because that was me when I started making money as I saw, oh, when you start making money, you buy designer goods. And again, we're picking on designer goods. If you love that, great. But like, that was what I was told to do as a woman is, oh, when you start making good money, you buy designer things. And I did that. And it did nothing for me. Like,

I own three designer pieces. It's like a Gucci belt and like a YSL passport holder. And both of those I use all the time. I own nothing designer past those two things. And yet it was not so much so people could see the Gucci logo. It was more for me going, oh, no, like, this is, this is something you're supposed to do, and this confirms to you in your mind that you are wealthy now. But that didn't actually give me any joy when I look at my bank account and I'm like, wow, I'm protecting myself and I'm protecting my retirement and I'm doing all the things I want to do. Like that actually asserts to me, yep, you are doing the things that you need to do to protect yourself. So I don't know, does that connect with you as well? Because I think that's a version of

this that is less like, look at me, I'm rich and more like, me look at me. I'm rich. Yeah, it's not even, I would say it's not even necessarily me, look at me, I'm rich, but chasing after something that you desire, but this, this purchase isn't going to be the thing that gets it for you. Right, right. It's a disconnect. I'm trying to think like, okay, so this is like, let's pick on a birth control and yogurt. In every birth control and yogurt ad, you see a bunch of incredibly beautiful, diverse women that look like they could all be a part of the UN. And they're all like, look at me and my best friends, me and this yogurt. It's like, if I buy this yogurt, maybe I will have a ton of girlfriends.

Or like, maybe if I use this one specific hair product, I too will have an incredibly hot boyfriend who's half naked on this motorcycle. And my hair will blow, you know, the wind will blow through my hair. Perfume. Perfumes the big one, I think. It's like, oh, I can be duelipa. You don't become rich by buying those things. You don't become sexy by buying those things. You don't become popular for buying those things. But they make you feel a certain way.

And the thing is that that's what they're going after. They're trying to help you believe that by having this association, that their brand with you, you will get that. And unfortunately, the only way that you are going to get those things is through a lot of personal work, whether that be going through therapy, going to the gym, getting cosmetic surgery. And I'm not encouraging people to do these things. But like, I promise you, using a certain face cream is not suddenly going to give you the jawline of, you know, do a leapa.

You're just, it's not happening. And I think that in a environment and in a system right now where there is so much chaos, we're trying to control what we can control. And for many people that is, oh, I'm going to spend money so that I can solve this very specific problem that TikTok has made me realize I have, like, Technic or like my 11s and my eyebrows. And if I solve that problem, then I'm controlling this concrete thing to make myself feel better. And I'm like, I want you to channel that same energy into like taking your financial education seriously. Like, because that's something that's actually going to fix your life and actually going to help you. That's going to give you the same feeling of control. that like the 11 wrinkle prevention stickers never could.

Yeah, exactly. We've been talking a lot about Henry's internally, which the acronym is high earners, not rich yet. Yep, exactly. Why do you think this group in particular gets so caught up and stressed about money, even though they're doing fine? Because a Henry is typically defined

as someone who's making over $100,000 a year and in many places where there are, are a higher concentration of Henry's because you can get higher paying jobs. They're also higher cost of living areas. And these people, if you're making $105,000 a year, you're upper poor. Like, you are still very much like with the rest of us. And I think people forget that to get a $100,000 job more often than not, you're probably if you're in a young person, you're probably living in a major metro.

So rent is a certain cost in those areas, more expensive. Your food is naturally more expensive because the grocery stores, like, they just charge more. Like, they're going to charge more than the, you know, Hygie in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Like, and I literally use that reference because my husband is from Cedar Rapids, Iowa. And I've been to the grocery store and I was amazed at the prices. And I just think that people forget that, like, it's not just about the top line number. You have the bottom line number. someone who is earning more in a major city and spending more may not necessarily be saving,

putting money away for investing or paying down their debt more effectively than someone who makes a more modest living, but is living somewhere that's a little bit cheaper. And so I think when we as a society see Henry's, there's not that much empathy given to them because they're making $100,000 a year. But it's very literally the middle poor and the upper poor fighting each other. Like, we are fighting over crumbs when in fact, yes, these people are better off than many, but they're still not doing amazing. They're still working individuals.

They're still being taxed at ordinary income rates. So they're giving up, you know, let's call it, like 25, 30 percent of their income. And so I think we need to reframe. Henry's are not our enemy. People who make six figures are not our enemy. Frankly, millionaires. the humble millionaire next door who saved his entire life, who worked really hard, climbed the corporate ladder,

that person is not your enemy. You want to get mad? Get mad at the corporations that are not necessarily paying their fair share of taxes, people who use exploitative business practices to make a ton of money and do not actually compensate their employees. And frankly, we should be mad at people

who have so much wealth that there is no possible chance of them spending it and having it recirculate into the economy because it's being hoarded. So I just think we need to stop fighting with each other down here and start looking up the pyramid. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I think we talk about that a lot more in the first episode you did on this show. So if you want to hear more about that, go listen to her first episode. I think the other trap with Henry's, if they're making the like $100,000-ish dollars a year is that you're making enough money where a lot of, yeah, the initial problems go away.

So it's actually easier to ignore your finances to the point where suddenly you're like, oh, I don't really know what's going on. I can just kind of spend, but like I think I'm spending too much. It's like a lot easier to ignore it. When you are making less money, you know where every dollar is going because you have to. And then I also think with people who are, you know, let's say you're 200,000, right? Or even $300,000. The common trap there is that kind of similar.

you have not given your money a job. And so, like, you're making good money, but you have no idea what to do with it. And you don't know where you should be investing it. Yeah, you don't know where to grow it. So talk to me about that person who is like, yeah, making actually decent money, but is in the analysis paralysis, oh, yeah, do I work with a wealth advisor? Because that's what, I don't know, the guy from work told me to do it. Like, what are they doing wrong or what can they be doing better with their money? Yeah, to your exact point, Susie Welch, a friend of mine, she's an NYU professor and an incredible author. She coined this term of like a B plus life. When you have a B plus life, you're like not that incentivized to change it. When you have a C minus life, you're like, I have to do everything to fix this. You have an A plus life.

You're like, I will do anything to maintain this. B plus, you can tread. You can tread water for years. The problem for someone who's making 200,000, maybe even 300,000 is that you start making a little bit more money. you start spending a little bit more money. Your lifestyle inflates, and you still don't have the financial education, and you were bad with money when you were making $80,000 a year, you're still bad with money now making $300. You just have more zeros to play with.

And so I think it's still really important that these people do the basics, whether that's opening up a high-yield savings account to make sure that their savings are growing, paying down high-interest rate debt, making sure that they have a debt payoff plan that focuses on ranking from high-yields, highest to lowest interest rate, making sure that they have access to all of those retirement

accounts with tax benefits, like a 401K, an IRA, a IRA, making sure that they're actually invested, not just, oh, I put my cash in the account. No, no, no, no, babes, you're not done. You actually have to buy stuff. I'm talking target date retirement funds. I'm talking index funds. I'm talking sector funds. And then last but at least, making a plan. It's really easy to feel, especially if you're the first person in your family to ever make that kind of money that you're set forever. You're not, though, because even if you make $300,000 a year, you at this, in this current climate, you cannot save your way to rich. You can not save your way to retirement. You need to invest your way there. And so it's all about making a plan, making a plan of like,

hey, I'm going to have some big spending years coming up. I have a wedding. I have a kid on the way. I have a house that I'd like to buy. A car I'd like to buy. I have to do all of these things, making sure that you have the money that you need to live your best life. It's not about amassing money. It's about using that money to get what you want. That's one of the things that breaks my heart. I think most is when I start talking to women who are making a decent salary or whose household income is, yeah, great. You can do a lot with that. And then they have nothing to show for it. And I see this a lot with, like, business owners as well. Like a lot of women start a business and they start making more money than they've ever made before. and it might not be somebody lessening $200,000,

but maybe it's just that like next jump in your lifestyle. And you're like, holy shit. But then they don't have a plan. They don't know what to do with it. And it's just such a waste. And it breaks my heart because it's like, I need you to know what you're doing with your money. Because if you're making good money and you're working hard

and you have gotten to a point where you feel compensated fairly, which a lot of people can't say, but then you're doing nothing with it. That's such a disconnect. there's nothing worse than wasted opportunity, wasted potential, and wasted time. I feel like you and I are like the old man screaming off the mountain into the abyss. We really are. We really are.

But like having a lot of money and investing a lot of money doesn't necessarily make you a lot of money. Having a lot of time is what makes you a lot of money because that's how compound interest math works. So the longer your money is invested, the more consistent you are, the earlier you start, the better off you're going to be. That's not to say you can't start later, but if you want to get to where the person who started in their 20s is, you're going to have to put more in. And so it's just all about making sure that you are taking full advantage of every opportunity you are presented. And back to my Chinese buffet, optimizing so that you get the most value out of those dollars. This newly independent podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. I was literally talking with someone this morning who has an in-person business and is trying to,

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all on your Squarespace site. Had on over to Squarespace.com slash FF Pod for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch your brand new website, use SFPod to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. You all know I love Quince. It's 2026. I need some new winter essentials. I have a sweater I already love from Quince. I need a jacket now because I realized I just have rain jackets because it's Seattle, but then when I travel, I want a jacket without a hood. And I'm going to Quince to get it.

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You're just paying for high quality clothing at a fraction of the cost. Refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Go to quince.com slash FF Pod for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's QINCE.com slash FF Pod to get free shipping and 365 day returns. dot com slash ff pod what i'm really excited about about this next book from you is that we are talking about a lot of like what i jokingly call like the big life stuff so yeah it's like the house and like the retirement and the kids and what i love is that you said when it comes to children they're gonna make you poorer and i think that's just like that's like the secret like thing that like nobody wants to say out loud but like having kids if that's important to you that will that is going to

change the way you manage your money. Like, their kids are fucking expensive. So what financial realities do prospective parents most underestimate? So I feel like when people think about having kids, they're like, oh my gosh, like, how much could Pampers cost? Or like, how much could like the... A lot, by the way. A lot.

The stroller and the formula. But like, people don't realize that for most people who have children, the number one expense is actually childcare. So if you have any intention of going back to work or frankly, even just need a little bit of help at night, because let's be honest, in many cases, if you cannot get some sort of help, whether that's family coming or hired help or whatever, you are going to be living at a CIA black site for the first couple months. You are not sleeping. Like, it is crazy. You're going to be tortured. Like, it is so important for people to realize that those child care expenses are getting higher and higher and higher right now in many major cities actually there are wait lists people are

getting on wait lists for child care before the kids are born because there is such a lack and such a insufficient supply for how much demand there is for child care and who could blame people right like you're saying oh all of a sudden like families don't need to be too income anymore of course they do right now. It's a very tough economic time. And child care is so, so expensive. But I think it's really underestimated because it's not something that they, like, grow out of very quickly. You might need child care for very literally a decade. And so maybe they get to 10. Maybe they start getting into their preteens. They can be a latchkey kid like I was. But like, it's going to be a long haul. And you have to make a very important decision with your family of does one of us

take a step back from our career? So not only are you, you know, either in one case, you're paying for childcare out of pocket in cash. But in another case, you are literally paying through not getting that paycheck. And you're missing out on all of those incremental gains, those promotions, those raises, and the investing you could have done on all of those dollars in the meantime. And so it just becomes a very, very compounded expense. And so that's why I start the chapter with kids will make you poor. It's a decision that still doesn't deter people. knowing what I know, I still will well intend to probably have a kid or two. But I have come to the full realization that that will make me less rich. And that's okay. But I need to be prepared for that.

I have to tell you a story that I know you're going to appreciate. I have two friends of mine, they live in New York. A couple years ago, they got married. And like we did, like we do, I sat at drinks with them and talked about their pre-up. And one of the things that they wrote into their pre-up, they each had their separate lawyer. and she literally was like, it's a man and a woman, and she was literally like, if we have children,

it is written in the pre-up that not only am I getting a, like, stipend, but also I am getting basically raises that are commiserate with what I would be getting because I'm taking time off work to raise these children. The raises commiserate with what I would be getting if I had continued my corporate job. And also, if I do go back to work,

like we are thinking about all of the lost time, lawn investing and all of those raises. And like she had written all of that into the pre-up. And like this is what we're talking about is like, yes, the cost of kids absolutely is child care and diapers and college maybe and like all of those things. But it's also the cost, especially for women because women do the vast majority of the unpaid labor. It is the cost for women's financial stability.

and also just the emotional decision to decide, do I be a, quote, good mom and stay home, or do I go and keep working? And it's just like that is the complex things we're talking about here and the cost quite literally financially of that kind of decision. Yeah. And I feel like the phrase good mom is so loaded. Of course it is.

I put it in air quotes for anybody who's not watching, who's listening. Yes. Good mom is so loaded because to be a good mom, you literally have to have eight arms. You have to have Hermione's time turner be able to be in two places at once. You have to literally not need to sleep. You have to be superwoman. Yeah. But to be a good dad, you just have to be kind.

Yeah. Yeah. And so I just think that, like, a lot of this unpaid labor is put on women. And this is something that changed my brain chemistry. And I feel like I'm going to tell you and it's going to change yours. But we're already kind of on this train. But it's so interesting how a task when done by a woman is unpaid. But when it's done by a man, it's art.

So like think about cooking at home. Who cooks most of the meals? More often in a traditional, like if we're assuming sense, mom does. Mom does not get paid to cook those meals. Mom just does it. It's unpaid labor. It's the slop. She's cooking up in the kitchen.

Suddenly, some guy would, with a goatee and a full arm'sleeved tattoo with a fun little hat is making food in a kitchen. He is a celebrity chef, has earned a Michelin star, and gets paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to not only run his own restaurant, but maybe even be on television. It is so interesting. And by that, I mean, it's like one of those phrases where I'm like, don't you think it's funny how? And then, like, I go into my rant.

But like, don't you think it's funny how that's the case? We're so fun at dinner parties. literally my partner has now like jokingly done at dinner he like pantomimes pulling up a soapbox for me because I'm like here we go we're going on their feminist soapbox again but one of the things I literally was going to bring up at the very first metaphor you gave about like the lobster is like that's the same thing of like there are some things that are um are luxurious if you're rich but ridiculous if you're poor and like lobster just and crab started as like the poor man's food Before he told it, yeah.

Because it was hard to eat. It was hard to get into. Right. And so I think about that all the time. Like speaking another language is sophisticated if you're rich, but like, you know, I don't know. Use a pejorative horrible word here for like people who are immigrants, right? And it's like this is the same thing where so much of the way we view money and the way we view progress is just societal norms that I think anybody listening to this show is. no longer interested in. So for people listening, I ask you, are those narratives serving you?

And if they're not, then you need to stop believing them. Yeah. I really do think that, like, how you speak to yourself, especially when it comes to money, is how you'll actually change your behavior and your views. Absolutely. I, and not even just about money, but like, I think about all of the horrible, and I just really mean disgusting, nasty, horrible, terrible things. ever thought about myself. Never in a million years would I've ever said that to my best friend. Like, she probably has some of those same habits, if I'm honest. But I would never say that. I would never say some of the terrible things I think about myself to her. And she would never say any of the terrible things that she says to herself to me. And I think if we all started

treating ourselves like our own best friend, which we should be, by the way, like we'd all be a lot kinder. You're not stupid. You're not behind. You're not bad with money. You are on your money journey. You are figuring it out. You haven't been taught this before. But you are going to make today a better day than yesterday and tomorrow a better day than today. And that's how it is simple. I started doing this really cringe thing, which I obsessed with in the morning. And I look at myself in the mirror. I'm brushing my teeth. I get ready. And I'm like, everything is amazing. You are the luckiest girl in the world and you're going to do great. And it's simple. And I just say it to myself every day and you know what? Today's going to be great. I'm the luckiest girl in the world.

I talk out loud to myself all the time. Yeah. And I think, no, but I think I have a whole, like, you know, episode I'll do eventually in my head that's basically like anything that you've been told as like crazy is actually the stuff that you should be doing, which is like, yeah, talking to yourself. Like you think of the like crazy old lady who's talking to herself. It's like, no, you actually should be talking to yourself. Like I, when I'm upset, like I literally, and again, it's so cringe, so cheesy, but I, it works. No one's around to see me. Who fucking cares? I put my hand on my heart and my hand on my belly and I literally out loud. I tell myself, you are safe. You're okay. I have got you. This is really scary. I know, Tori. It's really, really scary. And we're going to figure it out

together. It's like literally making me cry. Just like, this is the way I speak to myself. And yes, my life is transformed by doing that. Like, so why would, why would, couldn't we? Like all the crazy things that you're told are people being insane. It's like, no, no, actually the insane people are doing the things that will actually help you build a life that you want. When you were talking about everybody being on their own timeline, I think people feel this pressure to make the right financial decisions at the right age. How can people make peace with timing when their life milestones are not lining up with the traditional financial advice or what they see online. I think this is kind of a funny question because I feel like you and I are both

victim to this. As two members of the Forbes 30 under 30 criminal. Yeah. Go ahead. Call us out. That's fine. Yeah. No, look, I think there is this invisible timeline that people think that we should be on that if you don't get on that list or if you don't find the love of your life by this age or if you don't have a kid by this age, it's too late. Or if you, if you don't buy a house, you're a fucking loser. Like all of these things, they're fake. They're literally set up based on arbitrary timelines. I know people who have fallen in love with their significant other in their mid-40s. And they have gone on to have the best life ever. I know people who were in a different relationship and got divorced and then found the love of their life later on. So you get a do-over. You can

get a couple do-overs if you'd like. But like, I just feel like you have to realize we did not all start this race from the same point. Some people are born on third base. You've heard that phrase before. It literally means they were born with a silver spoon in their mouth. They have at every advantage, every privilege. And some people aren't even born in the fucking parking lot. They are so outside. They are by the illegal hot dog stand that's like a mile out where there are people who are parking and walking. And so you have to realize you may not have the same start as everybody else. I think you and I probably are born somewhere between the parking lot and third base. Many people are. But I think you can appreciate all the privileges you were born with

and all the things that have gone right in your life. But you can also realize that like there are invisible factors that hold certain people back from certain things and recognize that like when your time will come, it'll come. And if it doesn't come, it's probably not meant for you. And that is okay too. A happy life looks very different for every single person. We get a question a lot in our stock market school community from like women who are 40 plus who are like, oh, is it too late for me to save for retirement, right? Like, oh, it's all fuck. So like, why should I do anything at all? And the thing I tell them is like, yeah, I do wish you started when you were 20. I do. But there was probably a million reasons why you didn't get started. Yep. You didn't have access to this education. You were

not taught this. You were raising babies. You were focused on other things. You were just trying to make ends meet. You were, somebody scammed you. Like, there's a million reasons why you were not able to contribute to your Roth IRA until you were 42 or 48 or 50, whatever age we want to pick. And I think that the all or nothing mindset, the either like, I do it perfectly or I don't do it at all, I have multi-millions of dollars in my retirement account, or it's hopeless for me, and I may as well have zero, is one of the most damaging things I see women believe when doing anything, when like, oh, I either go to the gym and I work out for an hour and I walk out a sweaty mess and I'm tired and sore or I do nothing. I sit on the couch. I do no workout. It's like,

no, walk around the block for 10 minutes. That has to be, that is better than nothing. Okay, $50,000 are safe for retirement? Yeah, we wish you had more, but that is better than nothing. So I know you believe this too. When you're talking about with everything you're discussing in this book, how is the all or nothing mindset killing people from creating the life that they need and becoming well endowed? Yeah. I mean, I think I'm going to take a page out of a good friend of mine's book, Reshma Saojani. She's the founder of Girls Who Code. Basically, she was teaching young students how to code, as the name suggests, and she would write a line of code and all the boys would write a line. Some of them would be right. Some of them would be wrong. And then the girls,

many of them, they would have nothing on their screens. And she was like, uh, that's weird. Like, are y'all paying attention? Or like, are you not interested? Like, what's going on? They ran the keystrokes back on those computers and all of the girls had written lines of code and then deleted them and then tried again and then deleted them because they were so worried that there was going to be something wrong or it wasn't the perfect line or everything wasn't perfect that they just refused to do anything and showed up with nothing. And I think that's such like a, you know, microcosm of how we speak to young women versus young men, which is like, young women are told to be perfect and young men are told to be brave. And so I feel like,

especially with well endowed, my like recommendation for folks is like these are all personal decisions. There is no wrong answer. The only wrong move you can make is not having the conversation, not assessing with yourself if you actually want these things, not talking to your partner, not even thinking about whether or not your children need to have this financial future, not, you know, having a discussion with an estate planning attorney of like, how do I set myself up for the future? It's better to do something than nothing. It's better to get a pre-up off of online software that'll get you 99% of the way there. Maybe there's like one weird loophole you didn't imagine. But frankly, you know, you'll probably never come to that because let's be real.

The people who actually get pre-ups usually have easier divorces than most. And so I just think that like the idea of all or nothing is such a mistake. I'll never forget this. One of my first co-workers at my first job, she was a D1 athlete. And she asked me one day, I asked, to work. She was like, what are you going to do tonight? And I was like, I don't know, girl. Like, I think I'm not feeling the best. I don't really feel like taking this workout class. I'm probably just going to put on, I told her, I was like, I'm probably just going to put on this, like, 15 minute YouTube video and do some stretches. And she said to me, 15 minutes is better than no minutes, baby. And to hear someone who had been an athlete at that level say that

made me realize that, like, we're all human. Heaven forbid, I don't feel like working out the hardest I've ever worked on my period. Sorry, don't want to do that. It is still okay to give 20% if that's all you have to give, because you'll be able to give 80 later in the week. You'll be able to give 100 later in the week. And it's better to do a little bit. Those little things, those 15-minute increments add up so quickly. If you take every speedy, quicky, 15-minute workout I have ever done in my lifetime, I bet you that adds up to dozens and dozens of hours of workout. And I am that much more flexible, that much healthier, that much more physically fit, have stronger muscles because of that.

And the irony is that you're so afraid of making the wrong decision when actually the only wrong decision is making no decision. Like, that's the only wrong decision when it comes to money is if you're so afraid and you let fear dictate your decisions around money, which I can almost guarantee everybody listening has done over and over and over again, if you're so afraid of it, of making a mistake, then you should just do something because the worst mistake you can make is doing nothing. I am just so thankful you're back on the show. I am so excited for this book. I just love talking about money with you because we view it the same way. I think we educate people

in the same way about it. If someone walks away from reading this book, what have they learned? What is their biggest takeaway? I think their biggest takeaway. I think their biggest take way should be that you should be chasing security and stability and freedom in your life because true financial richness is not having to think about money at all and not having finances be a factor in your decision making. And if you read this book, if you follow the instructions, if you actually do the checklist, I don't even just want people to read this. I want them to do the checklists at the end of each chapter. I truly believe that this book will help you get closer to that. And just for everybody listening, I will be going on tour with this book. And someone, someone very

special, someone you may know, Tori Dunlap, host of finance promise, is actually going to be my very special moderator at my tour stop in Seattle. So come see us. We'd love to, yeah, we have a ton of Seattle listener. So yeah, hometown show for me, would love to have you come out and support her incredible book. Okay, plug away, my friend. Where can people get it? What's it called? Go. Yes. Everybody, please grab a copy. It's called well-endowed. You can order yours at rich BFF book.com. Not only do you get this incredible book, but if you pre-order it, you will actually get a bunch of other freebie resources, things like an outline of my trust and will, a buy versus rent home calculator. I actually can't even take credit for that. My husband built it, and I made him make user friendly for everyone. A relationship equity

calculator of how you should be splitting big things like rent if you and your partner don't make the same amount of money, things like a wedding planning checklist because, obviously, I do talk about weddings and divorces in this book and even a list of things that you can do to help raise smarter, more financially sound children. There's so many, so many freebies. Please grab a copy, rich pffbook.com. Love it. Thank you. Thanks for being here. Of course. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, produced by her first 100K. If you love this show and want to keep supporting feminist media, please subscribe or follow us on your preferred podcasting platform or on YouTube.

Your support helps us continue to bring this content to you for free. If you're looking for resources, tools, and education, including all of the resources mentioned in this episode, head to herfirst00k.com slash s-fodd.