Financial Feminist - 280. How to Stop Making Emotional Financial Decisions with Dr. Nick

Episode Date: April 7, 2026

If you've ever thought, "I know what I'm supposed to be doing with my money, so why can't I just do it?"–– this episode is going to change everything. I'm sitting down with Dr. Nick, a licensed neuropsychologist and executive cognition specialist, to unpack the brain science behind why smart, capable women still make emotional financial decisions. We're going into the dopamine deficit that makes long-term financial goals feel impossible to start, the norepinephrine surge that only kicks in when things become an emergency, and why "I'm bad with money" is a story your brain makes up — not a fact about who you are. Dr. Nick breaks down how emotional dysregulation silently drives impulse spending, financial avoidance, and the boom-bust cycle so many of us know too well, and more importantly, how to build systems, practice self-compassion, and rewire your brain's relationship with money, one small win at a time. Dr. Nick’s links: Website: https://www.drnicolemurray.com/ Visit ⁠https://herfirst100k.com/ffpod⁠⁠ to stay up to date and find any resources mentioned on our show. If you're feeling stressed about money, we've created a money plan to help you, no matter where you're getting started. Taking a quick 2-minute quiz to get your money plan at https://herfirst100k.com/ffpod In this episode: 00:00 How Emotional Decisions Shape Your Finances 01:47 Why Knowing Isn't Enough: The Brain Science 02:56 The Role of Dopamine in Financial Decisions 05:11 How to Create Urgency Before a Crisis 07:52 "I'm Just Bad With Money" — Debunked 10:15 What Is Emotional Regulation (And Why It Matters) 14:52 The Intensity Gauge: Rating Your Emotions 15:02 Managing the "Always at an 8" vs. Numb Baseline 17:29 Making Financial Decisions at a 5, 6, or 7 19:19 Replacing Mindless Spending With Systems 29:54 Willpower Is a Myth — Here's What Actually Works 32:11 The Case for Self-Compassion Over Willpower 35:43 The Boom-Bust Cycle of Financial Motivation 39:28 How Emotional Regulation Changes With Age 42:24 Preparing for Life's Transitions 49:00 Rebuilding Trust With Yourself and Your Money Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you've ever thought, I know what I'm supposed to be doing with my money, so why can't I just bring myself to do it? Then this episode is for you. Today, we're unpacking the brain science behind financial avoidance, impulse spending, burnout, and why motivation disappears when goals feel too far away. Plus, how to build systems that actually work when willpower doesn't. Today's guest is Dr. Nick, who is a licensed neuropsychologist and executive cognition specialist. Her work sits at the intersection of neuroscience, psychology, and decision-making,

with a particular focus on ADHD, executive functioning, and the hidden cognitive costs of modern work. So if you've ever just thought, I need more willpower or I know what I need to do, but I can't just do it. Today's episode is for you. Let's get into it. But first, a word from our sponsors. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. We love Squarespace. We've been using them forever, and we think you should use them too. Squarespace is the place to get your website, payment platform, whether you're selling content or products or time. All of that can happen inside Squarespace as well as donations and so much more. We appreciate you supporting Squarespace, who has been supporting us since the chauffeur started in 2021.

Whether you're just starting out or scaling your business, Squarespace is your best friend. They're going to give you everything you need to claim your domain, to showcase your offerings, to grow your brand and get paid all in one place. And you can buy domains in Squarespace too. head on over to Squarespace.com for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch, use offer code FFPod to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. I love learning. I wouldn't be hosting a podcast if I didn't like learning from people, but you might not host a podcast. Statistically, you probably don't. So the next best thing to hosting your own podcast is Masterclass. You can go to Masterclass

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masterclass.com slash ff pod. That's 15% off at masterclass.com slash ff pod. Head to masterclass.com slash ff pod to see the latest offer. So Dr. Nick, if people listen to this episode and take all of your work and all of your advice seriously, how can their life start to change? One of the main things I would say that people start to change if they take what I say seriously is they start to really think about more intentionally how they make financial decisions. Oftentimes when we're thinking about emotional regulation and we're thinking about making financial decisions, there are a lot of emotions involved from avoidance all the way to anxiety. And so if you know how to handle that and you know how to regulate that, you've actually start to make smarter financial decisions. We hear from so many women who are smart, capable,

they're starting to become financially illiterate, yet they feel all of the emotions you just expressed. Anxious, avoidant, stuck with money. From a brain science perspective, why does knowing what to do not translate into actually doing it? In the age of trending ADHD where 86% of the population think they have it, one of the main reasons why is because there's such a hard time in doing what you're supposed to do. Even though we logically know this is what we need to do, getting to that step, taking that initiation step, it's a lot more difficult. And the reason why is because the brain just doesn't want to, right? When we think about dopamine, the dopamine that we have and we create in our brain is all based on the reward system. And so if people are thinking about finances and making their financial future secure, that is never really immediate, right?

And because it's not immediate, it makes it less of a lucrative step to take. People don't want to do it, even though they know what's good for them. And so I really believe that when people kind of break down what they want their goals to be, they're more likely to take those smaller steps, get those smaller wins. and that's what actually leads them towards making better financial decisions. So you mentioned dopamine. What does the role dopamine plays in our decision making? But then if we want to be even more focused, what role does dopamine play in our financial

decision making? Okay. So dopamine is completely related to our reward system, right? So if we have a lot of dopamine, of course, you don't want any too much of anything. but when we have enough dopamine, we feel satisfied and we feel rewarded. Now, when, kind of like what I mentioned before, if we lack dopamine, we also lack motivation. We lack not necessarily ambition because we may have the ambition, but the motivation to get there just isn't there. Right. So when we're talking about making financial decisions, again, if we're playing a long-term game,

getting there is going to be much more difficult if you don't have enough dopamine. So you were mentioning this idea, and I see it because we talk with millions of women who are trying to be better with money, of, oh, I know this is important, but that's a next week thing. Or that's like a next month thing. Like, because it's not immediate, it gets pushed to the wayside or it just gets delayed. So when we think about the messages I get all the time, which is a financial emergency that often, like, causes people to go into taking action mode. What is happening in our brains that's different between, oh, I know I should do this versus, oh, shit, the time is here? Yeah, so now we're talking about nopenephrine. That is basically the oomph, right, to do something. Listen, there could be a variety of reasons why that's happening.

A big part is stress, anxiety, how much someone has on their place. Another reason is, again, ADHD. We lack norpenephyran when we have ADHD. So what that essentially means is that we're literally just putting out the fires that are in front of our face. And so when people are coming to you and saying, I have a financial emergency, it's because it's an emergency. It was an emergency last week. And so that norpenephyran never kicked in, but it's kicking in now. And so that would be the biggest difference, I would say.

So how do we get that urgency on a Tuesday? Like, how do we get that level of, okay, I got to take this shit seriously when my hair isn't on fire? Right. You know what? It takes so much self-awareness. And I know it seems like such a simple intervention, like, oh, I just need to be more self-aware. But you really do need to take stock in your past decisions because past decisions predict future behavior, right? And so if you know that you're prone to paying off.

that credit card on the day of instead of the week before and you know you're going on vacation. Like, what are you going to do to circumvent that trap so you don't get that late fee if you pay it a day late? And so really observing your own patterns and really making the choices. When I talk about emotional regulation, when I treat women with emotional regulation, one of the first things that we're establishing is systems. Because if you don't have systems, everything is chaos. You're doing a lot, but nothing's really getting done. and there's always going to be chaos at some point in your life. Nothing happens perfectly in sync as much as we'd like it to be.

And so when your life does become a little bit more chaotic, a little bit more stressful, and things are not going according to plan, the only thing you have left to fall back on are your systems. I love that you said that. I talk about systems a lot in the show. They've helped me personally so much. I think that a good chunk of the reason our business has had success. I've been successful financially is because those systems exist. And what I love about systems is that they're the same no matter what's going on.

If the economy is great, if I'm making a bunches of money, the system's the same. As if the economy's bad and I'm not making as much money. Why does our brain love systems? And if our brain is not at the point where we're able to create those systems, how do we get there? Care. So that's the main thing. No, that's a good point. That's a good point.

And that's the thing, right? It's like your mind, you might have goals and you have ambitions and what you were saying about, you know, you know what to do. It's your brain, the only purpose of your brain is to protect you, okay? And so if thinking about systems stresses you out, the brain's going to be like, no thanks. Let's think about something else. And that's why we avoid it. And so this is why it's important. that we kind of have to take the action before we kind of come around mindfully because it is the

most important. When we think about someone who says, I'm just bad with money, we hear that all the time. Like, oh, I'm just bad with money. What is actually happening in their nervous system? That's a really loaded question. People have a lot of narratives that they do tell themselves that are just not true, right? When you say that, it almost reminds me of when people say, oh, well, I'm just bad at math. I'm not good at school. A lot of these people, if I evaluated them, they're actually very smart.

It's just that they never really learned how to study or how to do the homework. And so it's kind of the same thing, is that if you do not know how to manage money and how to manage those systems, then air quotes, yes, you will be bad at it. But I want people to know that it's not that they're bad at it. It's that you don't know yet how to manage it.

Anybody can manage it. You just need to know the rules. We say the same thing. We say that it's not like a DNA trait you were born with. It is a skill that you learn and just, oh, I'm bad at, I don't know, Portuguese. I haven't taken the time to learn how to speak Portuguese. It's the same thing. And it's also the identity of I'm bad with money, not I'm learning or I don't know a lot about money.

The kind of demonization of ourselves, similar to the way our brains often go, I failed or I'm failure as opposed to just this just happened. Like I failed. And I think that identity that like, oh, this is a personal failing is so linked with money. We've seen it time and time again when we talk to women. Absolutely. And that is something that everyone really needs to kind of be aware of or what are you telling yourself? Because also your brain believes you when you say, I'm not good at this. And I failed this. It does start this shame cycle. And then when you have this shame cycle, like, well, I'm not good at this. So then why would I try? And then I'm just going to self-disappoint. And then that cycle then continues. And so it's so important to recognize, okay, is this something that I'm bad at? What's that evidence? Like, who said that you were bad at that? Where did that come from? And you saying that to yourself, who is that serving? And so what is it that you need to know to get good at money is what I would say as kind of a comeback to someone that is, you know, battling that constant thought in their mind.

He mentioned emotional regulation. What is that and how can emotional dysregulation show up in our real-world money behaviors? You know, it's so funny because I use that word like all the time and so many people are like, what are you talking about? I know there's listeners out there who are like, how do I actually regulate my emotions? Those are outside of my control.

Talk to me about what that actually looks like in practice. Yes. So here's a thing, right, with emotion. Emotions, it comes with a physiological response, it comes with thoughts, it comes with triggers, it comes with all of the things, right? Now, to regulate them, there has to be some kind of self-awareness and some oversight into what's going on. The whole goal of regulating emotions is that you are managing your emotions, so your emotions

are not managing you. I share the story of the time when I lived in New York, and I was like eight months pregnant. And if any of you live in New York, you know what that subway system's like at 7.30 in the morning. And so I was right at the doors, ready to get on, get a seat. And I was body checked. And immediately in my mind, it was like, who body checks an eight-month-old or an eight-month pregnant person to get on the train? And I was livid. I could feel like the heat. I could feel the emotions, the anger, the irritability. And of course, my behavior was, I'm going to go and I'm going to give this person a piece of my mind.

Now, when I looked down and around, it was actually like this eight-year-old kid that body checked me. Was I still irritated? Absolutely. But not as irritated as I was when I thought it was like a 49-year-old man. And so it's really just the change of perspective. When you can kind of change your perspective and thinking about things in a different way, that is like the first step to kind of regulating your emotions. A lot of times when people have trouble like regulating their emotions, which means they shut down, they lash out, they cry at work when they don't want to cry at work, when they just, when their emotions overcome them, it's because there's one pronounced thought that's just fueling the emotion. And so when we think about emotional regulation, it's like, what else?

What else can we be thinking about this? How else can we be thinking about this? And when we have multiple options to think about, it doesn't put so much strain and so much stress on that one emotion. And then we can start to think about things differently and make better choices. I love what you just said about the like the one thought. Because when we are emotionally flooded, it is the one thought. Like good luck thinking or considering anything else. If you are angry, if you are deeply sad,

especially if you have this like immediate response to something that just happened. Like, yeah, getting body checked on the subway or like, oh, my partner said something crazy to me just now and like, I'm so pissed off. Like, good luck having a thought that isn't about that. I used to spend so much time looking at my money. Like, pre me as a multimillionaire financial expert, I used to spend so much time obsessing over my budget, over trying to track every single penny. What really changed it was finding a tool that worked for me.

And a tool that I highly recommend and use in love is Rocket Money. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Rocket Money saves on average $70 within the first 30 days. And the app consolidates checking, savings, loans, and investments into a single dashboard to give you a clear view of your financial picture. So you're not spending hours every single weekend trying to figure out where you're money is. Rocket Money's been a long-time sponsor of the show. I love using them, and I think you'll

love them too. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Go to RocketMoney.com slash FF-F pod. That's RocketMoney.com slash FF pod. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. We've been using Squarespace for so long. You're probably sick of me talking about it, but it's because it's one of the best tools that you can use to grow a business, to be a freelancer, because you need a beautiful website, and that's where Squarespace comes in. One of my favorite parts about Squarespace is that they make it really, really easy to drag and drop so that you can design a website and literally a weekend, which is what I did with my partner's website for his new business. I also use Squarespace to help him be able to process payments within the platform, so you're

not spending money on an additional payment platform. We love Squarespace at Financial Feminist, and you'll love them too. Whether you're just starting out or scaling your business, Squarespace is your best friend. They're going to give you everything you need. to claim your domain, to showcase your offerings, to grow your brand and get paid all in one place. And you can buy domains in Squarespace, too. Go to Squarespace.com slash FFPod for a free trial to check it out. And when you're ready to launch, you can use offer code FFPod to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. Squarespace.com slash ffpot. What do we have to tell ourselves or do to, in the heat of the moment, regulate our nervous systems?

Honestly, the first and main thing that we need to do is talk to ourselves, recognize what the emotion is, because sometimes we don't even know. We're just in so much shock. We're just so irritable. We just start acting without even recognizing how intense we are acting or how intense we're feeling rather. Right. And so sometimes I'll say between one and ten, how are we feeling? What did this situation cause you? Let's say seven out of ten, if you're at a seven out of ten, if you're at a seven, level seven and up, you need to leave. You need to get out of there. Go to the bathroom, go for a walk, because no talking is going to help with this. Right. Now, if you're between, I would say, like a four and a six, all right, we need to just take a breath and then we need to problem solve. And we can work this out, but we need to also recognize that if we get to a seven, we need to really disengage because nothing productive, right? That term seeing red, right? Is that seven and up, four to six is that problem solving. And that that one to three, then it's kind of like, is this really worth my time? Is this going to impact me in five years from now?

Because if it's not, what is this worth getting up to a four and up? Let's release it, right? That is one of my favorite tools is doing the gauge, the intensity gauge, and then deciding what behavior are going to take from there. I know that there's at least one person, probably many people out there who heard that. and found it valuable, and then immediately thought to themselves, I'm either at an eight at all times, or I am so numb that I feel nothing anymore. Talk to me about those two people. The, my baseline's in eight and my baselines in negative two. So let's talk about the all eight folks. The all eight folks, I do think that there's some intensity that's missing, right?

We've heard people say, man, I go to zero to 50 and two seconds. There's some things that are happening there, right? And so earlier I mentioned self-awareness is key. And there's things that we're not picking up on, right, that are leading us to an eight at all times. It's the folks that they work all day, they have a stress all day, their bosses on them, they come home. like, what's for dinner? Who are you taking to whoever? And then we snap. And it was like, oh, I was always miserable, but we'll know, you're stressed, you're overstimulated, you're also hungry, you don't want to make decisions right now. And now that's what's happening. Now, if we released

one of those four or three, would you have still been out of the eight? And the answers probably no. And so when people are at a baseline of eight, we would probably work on what it feels like to have a baseline at three and four. We need to know what that feels like. Now, my folks that are constantly at two. This kind of reminds me of my burnout folks when they reach like the ultimate burnout and they're just kind of like, I give zero Fs. I'm just not, it's kind of like, now we have to be kind of aware of those mini wins. And believe you me, a lot of people I see like, oh my goodness, I don't want to talk about wins. Wins are so cheesy, but you need them. We had talked about dopamine, right? Like, you need the wins in.

order to kind of get out of that apathy and all of that, right? And of course, this is talking about folks that are generally within the range of the spectrum of emotions, not clinical depression, because that is a little bit different, and we would treat that a little bit differently. But for the remainder of folks, this is what we would do is really figure out, okay, are there, is there anything that would bring you joy? And let's focus in on that. And let's make sure that we're prioritizing that because otherwise it just stays the same. I love this idea of the scale and I want to stay on it for a second. If you are feeling an emotion that's let's say five plus, so five, six, seven up, what then happens when you are feeling a five, six, seven plus emotion

and then you're going to make a financial decision? What's happening in that moment? Well, let's see here. were at a seven and up, I would not make any financial decision. I would definitely sleep on it. This is where impulsivity comes from. Stressed financial decisions. If you're at a five, six, you know what, I also think talking it over with someone, especially if we have some folks that are like, no, I want to make this decision right now. I would use a lifeline and call someone and talk it over. Again, problem solving is that five, six, five, six level. And it's helpful to be bounce something off of someone else to make sure that you're on track to making the right financial decision. And the more we're talking, the more I have to, again, I was going to say

beg listeners, but like I kind of feel that way. Like I have to remind everybody, we have so many conversations on this show about the emotions of money. And it's because everything Dr. Nick is saying is so true when we're about to make a financial decision. If we are at a seven plus, that's probably not a smart decision because we are not regulating our own emotions. If we are making impulsive decisions, we're making a huge purchase, we are quitting our jobs, rage quitting out of nowhere with like no planning. Like these are the kind of things that have the possibility of at most blowing up your life, but at the very least making you go, I regret that or sending you into the shame spiral of money. So let's say that somebody has done, let's not say it's like

the blow up their life decision. Let's say it's a pattern of like mindless spending. If they're listening to this episode, they're listening to you and they're going, yep, that's me. I am making purchases or doing financial decision making in a way that's not regulated. How do they make that an habit and a pattern as opposed to just doing it once. So this is where we come back to systems, right? We need to substitute and replace that pattern. And it's not, I call it, it's not just mindless spending, but also mindless debting, right? Where we don't cancel the subscriptions and we are late on the payments again. And so really taking a look at just one of the things, because typically when people have issues with this, it's not just one thing, it's a multitude of things. It's,

well, as soon as I go outside and I see something nice, I want to buy it to make me feel better. Okay, well, what else makes you feel better? What are you going to say to yourself instead? If you are mindlessly, again, debting, right? And having purchases come on and not canceling them in time. maybe it's we set a date the third of the month, at least for me. That's kind of like that sweet-sought before everything is due. And the third of the month, whether it's due on the 27th, the 16th, the first of the next month, everything's getting done on that one day. What you also want to be thinking about is cognitively offloading, right?

So a lot of times people are just so bogged down with the stress and the layers of responsibility that it's really hard to say, okay, let's. create this system and I have to be on top of all of the other things. My hope to people is that you don't need to be on top of this. Let's just create this one thing, this one system that's going to just cognitively offload you. So this is the one thing that you do not have to think about anymore. You set it and you forget it. That's so helpful. And I think for me, what I teach is like a money date where it's sit down like once a month, look at your money, look at your automation for your savings accounts. like have a designated time to check in on all of this, because that's also your designated time

to build those systems. Because I hear the same thing. People are like, I'm so in the day to day, or the moment to moment. I can't even think about having enough time to build the system. And I'm like, no, you've got to give time to build the system because then you're no longer in the day to day. You actually also have to like just trick your mind into doing it. Right. So when we talk about, seriously, when we talk about it like right now, it's very easy. to be said than to be done. You really have to schedule it in your calendar. What time are you going to do this? Are you going to do it just before you leave work? Are you going to do it just before you go to bed? Like, when are you realistically going to sit down and do it? Make it an appointment, like you're making an appointment with a neurologist that you cannot miss. And you have to do it at least six to seven times before we can say, yeah, that doesn't really work for me. We have to actually give it that good system and pad that system so that it's actually attainable in actually doing it. it. You work with a lot of high achieving women. How does burnout quietly shape financial decisions in ways

people don't realize until much later? You know, what I'm often seeing is kind of a giving up kind of theme. And so when they reach like real burnout, clinical burnout, it's like, well, I'm not really paying attention to my stocks anymore. And I'm just, I have the money, so I'm just going to spend it on whatever I want. It's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. It's, not like the lights are going to go out. And so there's a little bit of a passive carelessness that I see. And so what we're really trying to do is set a goal that is lucrative for them. What do you want to do? If you were able to do this, like, how would you feel about it? Would you be proud of yourself about it? And again, I wish there was different words to make it not sound cheesy, but that's what it is, right?

So I think that when we're quietly burning out, it's really important to catch it early because a lot of times when we're talking about burnout, people think this is something that's temporary. And, oh, I'm just going to take a week or a month off work and go back. And it's much deeper than that, right? So it does take some work there. And I think it's something that people don't talk about enough that when you are making good money, it's actually a lot easier to ignore your money. Like, it's a lot easier to just be like, well, I'm making good money and it's fine until you realize,

oh, I'm spending almost all of it. And I'm not thinking strategically about how to grow it or protect myself. And, like, that's, I think, a trap we don't discuss enough. Because if you are living paycheck to paycheck or even making, you know, enough money to get by, you still have to be super dialed in. Like, you don't have a lot of flexibility. versus if you're making, I don't know what the number is, 150K plus. It's like, I can kind of just do what I want and not really pay attention.

And I think that's one of the things that also impacts women that they don't realize until much later down the line. Oh, I've just been like wasting years not viewing this as a strategic thing to do. Or like, I could be strategic with my money. I could allow this really good salary to work even harder for me, but I'm just kind of ignoring it. You're absolutely right. And it's kind of to your earlier point is if I know how to do it, why am I not doing it? And that is the result of that, right? That's the result of that. And so typically, listen, we're all adults and the benefits of being a grown-up is that you can do whatever you want, right?

You can't spend all the money without having a safety net. But if when you think honest, and have that honest discussion with yourself of, okay, where do I want to be in 20 years? And how can I get there? Even if you say, all right, let me at least not spend this X and then the rest is free game. Starting with something small and doable is kind of the best approach. But I think the problem that people often face is that they try to go big. They go big with the systems. They complicate the systems. And then when they all come crashing down at the same time, and it's like, oh, It didn't really work. So here we are.

I'm bad at money. Come full circle. Yeah, it's the, I'm going to go work out for two hours every single day at the gym. Right. And then when inevitably a weekend, you're not able to do that because of course you're not. You're not a psychopath. It's not like it's not doable. And then I think what you just said is so common, which is, oh, then it must not work.

right like oh i tried it but not really you didn't really try it or you went way too hard which is also not what we're saying and then of course it doesn't work but then it's a lot easier to say well i guess i just can't hack it or i guess this podcast doesn't actually like this episode didn't really teach me anything it's like no all of that's there but you have to remain consistent and it has to be the smaller wins and i think we get caught up in the sexiness of like big or like big systems, but like the sexy, exciting things are not the things that are actually going to get you where you want to be. And, you know, you brought up a really great example about those gym clothes because I know

people that do go to the gym for two hours, which is something. Can't even imagine. But they don't start off that way, right? Nobody starts off that way. And so the folks that are now going to the gym for two hours a day, they started going to the gym twice a week and they were only doing the treadmill, right, for 30 minutes and then they were out of there. And then once you start to see those little bit of gains, you lost a little bit of weight, you gained a little bit of strength, oh, well, now I'm going to make it 45 minutes, now I'm going to try a class, now I'm going to do this. It's the same thing with every single aspect. So when you're thinking about consistency and dopamine and all of these things, one of the other things that I want to mention just about the brain is that, you know, your amygdala that holds like your emotional memories, okay? It's basically what tells the limbic system. I'm like, oh, hey, this is what's going on.

This is a familiar feeling to me. So start reacting to it this way. This is why so many times a feeling of, I'm bad at money, so that amygdala. Remember the last time? Remember the last time you messed up? This is this again. This is this again. See, see, see.

And so you really want to be able to kind of change that narrative in that amygdala. So you start having these good emotional memories around finances, right? And so by taking the smallest actions and it gets bigger and bigger and bigger. Now the amygdala is changing a little bit where it's like, oh, wait, I was able to do this last time. Now I can do this. This is in the research. This is really how it works. And so, yes, it's about consistency, but it's also about getting those dopamine hits along the way.

Or else, yeah, what's the point? Is this what we're talking about when we think about encoding on the brain? Is this the same thing? It can be, right? So when I think about encoding, I'm thinking about attention, right? So how we process information. And so the first passive information is encoding and that encoding storage. And then it gets to short-term memory and then it gets to long-term memory.

Now, when it's coming to the amygdala, yes, there's been some encoding of information that's been placed, right? If it's like, no, as if you were a kid and your parents were like, no, you can't have candy at the store and the thing because it's a waste of money. You can't have that toy. It's not your birthday. You need a special occasion to buy something. Right. All of those do get encoded into that amygdala, right? Like those feelings of, oh, should I buy this for myself for no reason? That amygdala checks and it's like, oh, wait, remember? So yes, absolutely. There's kind of like an encoding of emotional memories that happens there. And so it is something that it is your brain that's doing it. It's not, you know, your own volition. I'm doing a little spring reset with my closet. I am swapping out the really heavy sweaters into the lighter sweaters.

And I am swapping out the rain boots. I mean, I can't completely get rid of the rain boots because I live in Seattle. But other things, like nice little shoes that I have a little more flexibility on because it's literally sunny while I'm recording this. And this is why I keep coming back to Quince. I'm obsessed with Quince. It's not just because they sponsor this show, but I truly love shopping with them. I bought my living room couch from Quince.

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willpower because a lot of people just think, oh, I can't do that thing because I don't have enough willpower. I can't go to the gym every single day because I don't have enough willpower. I can't save money because I don't have. Like, we could do any goal here and the reason you can't achieve it gets blamed on willpower. Debunk that for me. So, willpower. I think people confuse willpower with a lot of different things.

Yes. And I see it all the time. I try not to be on social media, but when I do, it is reinforced actually. a lot by coaches and things like that that'll say like, you can start a business at 4 p.m. to 9 p.m. and just do all that and don't watch TV, but you just need the willpower to do it. I'm like, really, really? Is that what's going to happen? Yeah, talk to me about willpower when you're well-rested, well-fed, not stressed, and we can talk about willpower. Financially stable? Yep, yep, yep. Yeah, talk to me. But I think that there's, to me, there's no such

thing as the word laziness that often comes and, you know, commensurate with the willpower, like, oh, I'm just, I'm lazy. And I've never spoken with someone that has called themselves lazy when they don't have something big that's going on, something stressful that's going on, something they need to be dealing with. And so if you can tell me your life is completely clear, you're stress-free, then sure, talk to me about willpower, but I don't really believe in this idea of will-power. you just need to buck up and get it done kind of thing. You can do that, but again, you have to make sure

those barriers are out of the way. You cannot have willpower with barriers blocking you. And on the flip side, I think of the very intense willpower, and we're, you know, kind of broifying willpower here, but they've done it themselves. On the flip side of that, self-compassion

is often understood as letting yourself off the hook. Like, no, I have to speak to myself with shame, because that will that's what my that's what I need so from a brain perspective how does self-compassion actually improve follow-through and decision-making if you have self-compassion you are more likely to hold good boundaries with money you know when you say you know no to others you're saying yes to yourself and I don't think people have enough self-compassion and they they say yes to a lot of things that

they shouldn't. And so it's interesting that people do prioritize willpower versus self-compassion. But it is something that if you don't have it, and you do have it, just probably not enough, to be honest. So people have, exactly. You know, the older you get, there's a reason why we don't have a bunch of 40-year-olds going to the club anymore. There's self-compassion. You don't want to stay out late. Right. We want our sleep, right? But I think that, you know, it does start somewhere. And what you wouldn't judge someone else for, you really don't want to judge yourself for, right? And so if someone comes to you and says, listen, I am in this job and I really want to make more money and I can and it's the same thing and I feel like I'm letting myself down, how would you treat them? Are you going to be like, well, you don't have enough willpower and you have to, you have compassion for them.

And so that's the same thing you should be offering to yourself. Well, and we're in a society that upholds patriarchy and white supremacy and capitalism, and all of those love willpower, which is push through, doesn't matter how hard you're working, doesn't matter if you're injured, doesn't matter if you have to want it the most. Versus self-compassion feels very soft. It feels very communal. It's so different than what we've been talking. in the society we exist in.

Even you were talking on this episode, you're like, it sounds cheesy, but, and I think that is what self-compassion is, it's that, like, we all feel kind of embarrassed about it. Like, I don't know if it'll be out by the time this episode is out, but I just recorded an episode a couple hours ago about how we have to, like, talk to ourselves out loud and, like, almost parent our inner child, sometimes out loud. And the thing I had to say is the things that sound crazy or that people would see and go, that's insane. Those are sometimes the things that are actually helpful are the very things you feel embarrassed about. And self-compassion kind of feels embarrassing because we've been told by society that

you should just suck it up buttercup every single time. Yeah, I do think that there's definitely that misconception around self-compassion. But for those of you that want to improve your own self-compassion, I would want you to replace that term with willpower, right? So when I think about self-compassion, seriously, right? Like, I mean, that means you have to start saying yes to yourself. You need to start saying no to other people. It means that you need to start saying, making the decisions that might hurt other people's feelings. Like, no, maybe you're not going to go to Bali next week and maybe you're not going to go because you have other things to prioritize, right? And really putting yourself first. I call it more of a self-centeredness as opposed to like selfishness,

which people confuse the two terms, but you do want to center yourself and ground yourself. And that's where that self-compassion and that discipline and that willpower should be first, and the rest will follow. A common thing that we see is a boom-bust cycle of getting your finances together, feeling motivated, then something comes up, an emergency, go back, into bad patterns again, and then you avoid your finances entirely. And then an emergency happens where you realize you have to get back. Like, it keeps going on this cycle of caring and then not caring after something happens. What's happening neurologically in these boom-buss patterns? So it's back to habits, right? We always have known that there's a brain-body connection,

right? And most recently, there's a body. mind connection. And so we work and we behave automatically, right? And so there's this automaticity to it where your body's used to doing the same things. And the brain is, it kind of shuts off, right? Because it's like, we know what to do. We know how to go to work and all of those things. Now when the brain says, oh, I have a baby habit that I'm going to try. I'm going to get my systems together. The body's like, okay, we'll try this out, sends that messages up through the limbic system to the brain, brain sends it back down, we're doing the system and all the things. And then just like you mentioned, something chaotic happens, something stressful happens,

and then the body's like, let me take over because your brain is elsewhere. And we go back to that automatic way that we're used to being, right? And so that's why when we're talking about progress, it's not as linear as people would love it to be. Okay, it's going to be up and then it's going to be down, but it's going to be like the stock market. It never crashes back to zero, not all the way, right? It just is going to crash a little bit, but it's so important that you continue on that journey. It's like when people say, oh, I fell off the bandwagon. It's like, well, was a horse tired? Right. Does a horse need to take a sleep? Or, A drink, right? Let's get back on and be on your way. But that is, you can expect that to happen.

I don't think that can be avoided. The only time I've ever seen people kind of take up a habit and then just sustain it without flaw is just when you hit your 20s, when you're just coming out of that Superman complex, I can do anything. They can typically do it because they have the hormones and all of that is a little bit different. But when you hit 30, let me tell you, any new habit is going to take a lot. of work and you should expect some failures. It was a transformation for me a couple years ago when I realized as a business owner, my job is not to try to prevent every emergency because I cannot prevent every emergency. My job is to learn how to respond to it. And I think that that alone has been so helpful, both in the running of my business and also in my life. Like, I cannot prepare emotionally, physically, financially for every single thing that's

going to happen. Even if I am perfect, which by the way, I'm not, even if I make every perfect decision, there's so much out of my control. So rather than trying to control what you can't control, control your response to it, I think has been so helpful for me. Okay, so you mentioned 20s, and we talked before you hopped on the mic, when we share the age of our audience and how we often talk about money in decades, right? Money in your 20s, money in your 30s, 40s, you brought up how our emotional regulation changes over the years, and you just brought it up again. Can we discuss that more? What is changing as we age? Let's start from the end, right? When we hit like our 70s and 80s, you find the folks that are the most wise, they actually are unfiltered.

They are unfiltered. They don't care what anybody thinks. They're going to do whatever they want, right? Their emotional regulation is set because they realize they don't need to care. carry the motions of others, and they can actually be their truest selves, right? And so we see the most relaxation in that age group, right? And then when you hit your 50s and 60s, you also start to realize, you actually start to feel like an adult, right? You're heading towards the end of middle age there. You are starting to feel like I am in a little bit more control, and I don't have to be as on edge. And so when we're thinking about financial decisions and things like that, Listen, there's folks in their 20s that are brilliant, right, with their finances, same with their 30s and all of that.

For the average person, though, they are doing the standard things, the passive things, what they're given by their employers, are not taking additional action. And the reason why is because they have so much loaded responsibility, right? 30s is really where everything gets loaded on you. You're no longer dancing on bar tables anymore. You have to start being an adult. And so there's a lot that comes with that, right? Impressing the boss, making sure that your life is on track. And so when you're cognitively overloaded, you may not be thinking about the long term in 50 years.

And so the regulation between 30s and 40s is much different because it is a decade of stress. And then for women specifically, when they hit their 40s to 50s, perimenopause symptoms start to hit in. And unfortunately, it's not until recently we've started even talking about that, right? It was just happening and people were just kind of navigating that on their own, right? And so there's now a flux of symptoms of depression, the brain fog, and all of that. And so it's kind of like, well, I just need to take care of myself and I can't really think about finances. What you mentioned earlier, until it is a fire right in front of me, it's not going to be something that is more pronounced. right? And so it's really about thinking, okay, I know that I'm going to be going through these shifts.

And these are the things that I need to be doing. And these are the things that I need to be deciding ahead of time because the shifts are going to happen whether you like them or not. And of course, in your 20s, this is when we're the most reckless. We don't even develop our frontal lobes until we're 25. So any decisions we're making before then, I am really curious what's happening there. But with a lot of guidance, of course. It will work out. think about those transition periods, 29 into 30, 39 into 40. How can we best prep for the new stage in our life from a brain-body connection standpoint? So the way that we would prepare is really to assess our environment, right? The best thing that I could tell people to do, whether you're in your 20s, 30s or 40s, is to think about what are the main things that cause the most amount of stress. We really need to have a plan for that, whether it's finances or not, because if there's no plan, then you will stay stagnant in that space. So I would say if you want to prepare financially, you want to have a goal, a micro goal ahead of time, but also think about what are the things

that are going to prevent you from getting there. Because there's going to be things that are going to prevent you from getting there. If it's your support system, that's like, well, I don't think you can do it. Then we need to talk about how they are not your support system, right? We need to talk about all of those sort of barriers. So it's really doing a self-assessment of where you're at in your environment, your support system, and all of those sort of environmental barriers before we can even start preparing.

Yeah. And I think all of this is how do you take stock? without it becoming a shame spiral. Like, how do you take stock of what's going on? Oh, are my friendships or my relationships actually supportive? And if they're not, rather than going, oh, my gosh, how did I stay in this relationship for so long? Or why can't I, I guess I'm not good enough to have, like, good friends.

Like, rather than it becoming this thing of shame or identity, you have to view it as data. Like, I joke about being an anthropologist in your own life, but, like, that's the way I try to communicate it with people is it's just like, oh, interesting. Okay. When I got a promotion at work, my friend got weird about that and was not supportive of that. Hmm. Interesting. Like, it's just another data point for you to think about to inform your decisions. It should not be and does not have to be a personal criticism or a moral failing that is yours.

fault. Absolutely. And I think for so many people that are emotionally intelligent, sophisticated, they know that, but there's something about it, right? And that's kind of where the therapy comes in, right? It's so much easier said than done. It's so funny when people are like, don't care what other people think. It's like, really, is that what you're doing? It's amazing to me that that sometimes, you know, is advice, right? It's not to care what other people think. I mean, I would love that. I would love that for you and everyone else and myself. But the fact is, is that we care. My theory is, though, how much are we going to care? How much stock are we going to put into this? How much effort are we going to put into this? As a neuropsychologist, as a rehab,

neuropsychologist, it's always about protecting the brain and cognitively offloading, right? We're not going to try to stress the brain out. We already know that chronic anxiety, chronic stress, shrinks the hippocampus, shrinks your ability to recover. tall things, right? And so we really need to be thinking about your own health, right? And so, yes, doing that self-evaluation, no, you're not going to cut off all your friends, right? But obviously, you're going to reassess what kind of friend are they going to be. We just ended up talking about the lifespan. It's always interesting to me when people are like, I have had my friend from kindergarten, we're still best friends. I was like, really? How does that work? Because just

decade through decade, right? We lose people and we gain people, right? And there's friends that are good for certain things, but I do think that we do have this mindset of we have this one person. And because we met them and anchored to them in this one way, there are all of our things, right? So when you think about when you were like 10 years old, this is your play date person and your steady person and you're calling on the phone person. But when you think about your life now, you have friends that they will talk to you for hours on the phone, but try to get them to go out for dinner, it's just not going to happen.

And then there's other friends that will drop everything for you, but they're not going to go on that vacation, or the ones that are so funny you love to be around, but when you talk to them about something serious, they can't tolerate. And so really knowing, engaging what you share with people and really thinking about what your support, looks like is also going to help you. When you're thinking about this is how I need to be healthy

to make financial decisions, it's not just finances. It's everything around you in context. What you were just talking about with friendships, I also think about with like dreams or goals is you hear, especially the Olympics are about to start and they'll probably already be starting by the time this episode comes out. But it's like you're going to hear the story of the athletes who are like, I started when I was four years old. And this has been my dream for 30. years is to be a figure skater. And like, there's going to be some people like that, absolutely. And also, you're allowed to grow and change. Like, I have a theater degree from a very young age. I thought, I'm going to be an actor. This is the only thing I can possibly be. And then I didn't do

that. And do I miss it? Do I grieve that dream sometimes? Absolutely. Am I also pretty fucking happy with the career I chose? Yeah. And I think it's, all of this is just a reminder of how hesitant we are as human beings, because our brains are wired this way, how hesitant we are to change, like how hesitant we are to actually make lasting change because change is uncomforty. Like, it's not fun. It's not a good time, especially in the early days. It's like, yeah, it's deeply uncomfortable. And I think that that is the feeling so many people who are listening have is they know something needs to change. But again, they know, but the doing is so hard. So everything you've talked about already is so impactful and helpful for just speaking more

kindly to yourself, helping regulate your own nervous system and your own emotions. My last question for you is if someone is feeling disconnected or distrustful of themselves financially, what is the first step to rebuilding that relationship? I would say do it in partnership, right, in whatever they feel comfortable with. If you don't trust yourself, borrow someone else's trust, right? And so that could be seriously, I mean, that could be either with a financial coach, that could be with a therapist that, but I don't think it's something that you should DIY. It's because you're going to be battling your own internal thoughts and your own internal

narratives, right? And so for those of you that are like, well, I'm not that bad, but I still want to make change, but you do have those shame cycles. What I do want encourage people to do is really start from where you are today and then make the progress and only look back to today. We're not looking back to what happened like six months ago, three months ago, six years ago, because that keeps you in that shame cycle, right? We're only, we're starting today and we're going to look back from there. So those are the two things I would recommend, is staying present and then also seeking partnership with a professional. This was such a valuable conversation that I know people are going to come back to time and time again. I would love if people listening shared this with friends, that would be my dream.

as being able to, again, have that community and have conversations about everything they just learned. Thank you for joining us. Plug away, my friend. Where can people find out more about you? You can find out about me at Dr. Nicole Murray.com. I'm actually launching a YouTube channel relatively shortly. So you can also find me there where I talk about emotional regulation, neuropsychology, and all of the fun cognitive things. That's amazing. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminists, produced by Her First 100K. If you love this show and want to keep supporting feminist media, please subscribe or follow

us on your preferred podcasting platform or on YouTube. Your support helps us continue to bring this content to you for free. If you're looking for resources, tools, and education, including all of the resources mentioned in this episode, head to herfirst00k.com slash sfod. If you love Financial Feminist and you're listening, so I hope you do, we've got something to take your learning even deeper from the podcast, especially if you've ever felt like personal finance is a confusing maze. My book, Financial Feminist, Overcome the Patriarchy's bullshit to Master Your Money and Build a Life you Love is out now. It is a New York Times bestseller

that has sold nearly 300,000 copies, and it is not just another financial guide. It's everything you need to get better with money step by step, but through the signature feminist lens that you know and love here at her first 100K. There is so much in the book that we've never discussed on the podcast. There are homework assignments. There are deep dive lessons, and there's even more information that you've never heard it here on the show. You can get a copy of Financial Feminist wherever you get your books. And if you are listening on Spotify right now and are a premium member, you can get the audiobook read by me for free. You can get signed copies and learn where it's sold at her first hundredk.com slash ffpod.