Financial Feminist - 288. How to Stop Burning Out While Building Your Dreams with Michelle Razavi

Episode Date: June 16, 2026

If you've been checking every box, hitting every goal, and somehow feeling further away from yourself than ever, this episode is for you. Our guest today is Michelle Razavi, and she’s back with an important message. Since she was last on the show, she and her co-founder Nikki have grown their business Elavi into a multimillion-dollar business now in Costco, Whole Foods, H-E-B, and Thrive Market. Michelle is one of the rare founders who builds with absolute tenacity and protects her peace. In this episode we get into the neuroscience of why hustle mode is working against you, the tech boundaries that actually hold, the real psychology of why you won't delegate, and what it takes to build as a woman of color when the odds are stacked against you.  MIchelle’s links: Website: https://elavi.co/  Visit ⁠https://herfirst100k.com/ffpod⁠ to grab a copy of our free Side Hustle Skill Finder to figure out exactly which of your existing skills can make you money!   00:00 Intro  03:30 Energy management vs. time management 05:00 Executive function vs fight-or-flight  09:30 Getting comfortable being uncomfortable 14:00 "Why isn't it happening for me?"  19:00 Urgent vs. important 24:00 "Can it wait?" and "Is this serving me?" 27:00 The physical first signs of burnout  36:00 When online harassment becomes a panic response 40:00 You can't go from chaos to calm in two minutes 42:00 The five senses checklist + sitting on the ground 44:00 Redefining relationships and "balance" across seasons 47:00 Technology boundaries that actually hold 54:00 Let's rebrand delegation: accepting 80% 59:00 Building as a woman of color when people doubt you 1:05:00 Envy as information 1:09:00 One small shift this week: put your phone away Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you've been checking every box, hitting every goal, and somehow feeling even further away from yourself than ever, this episode is for you. My guest today is Michelle Razavi. She's the co-founder of a lobby, yoga, and fitness trainer, and someone I respect enormously as a builder. She also happens to be one of the entrepreneurs that I have Angel invested in. Since she was last on the show, she and her co-founder, Nikki, have grown a lobby into a multi-million dollar brand now in Costco, Whole Foods, H-E-B, Thrive Market, and more.

I feel like such a proud mom. or bigger sister. So yes, I'm biased that this company's amazing, but I'm also right, because Michelle is here to talk about what it actually took to build the business of her dreams and how she used her training to build systems and structures that keep her from burning out. I truly think she's so good at this. And it is a balance that a lot of women have a really hard time striking. How do you build and how do you fuel your ambition while also taking deep care of yourself? And we're not talking like face masks. We're talking like actually regulating your nervous system. In this conversation, we get into the neuroscience of why hustle mode is working

against you, how to set technology boundaries that actually hold, the real psychology of why you won't delegate, and what it looks like to build as a woman of color when the odds and some of your own investors even are stacked against you. This is the episode for anyone whose ambition has started to cost them their peace. And I know you heard that and already know five other women who need to hear it too. So go ahead and share it with them and let's get started. But first, a word from our sponsors. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace has sponsored us for five years.

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We've loved Squarespace, and we're the first investment we ever made in our business, and if you need a website, you need Squarespace. Head on over to Squarespace.com slash ffpod for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch, use FFPod to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. We do quarterly leadership retreats at her first 100K, where we lock in for full days of strategy. And listen, if you've ever been in a first day, an eight-hour meeting about the future of your business, you already know you're not remembering everything. Like, you think you are, you're not. And the frustrating part is the best, most important

decisions, they happen in those rooms. I used to walk out feeling good and then two days later be like, wait, what did we actually decide? So I stopped relying on my brain alone. Now I use the plod note pin S. It clips on and with one press captures everything. Of course, with everyone's consent. And afterward, I don't have to piece things together. I get a clean breakdown of what actually mattered, what we decided, and what happens next. And if I need to find something later, I don't have to scroll through anything. I just ask a question and it pulls the exact answer in seconds. Or I can send the full summary to my team, so we're all working from the same page. No more 10 p.m. Slack messages. Like, wait, are we aligned on this? Because now we actually are.

And honestly, it's the difference between sitting in and a conversation and actually being present in it. It's got 98% transcription accuracy and works in person over the phone and on Zoom. Go to plod. dot AI and use code F-F-F-Pod for 10% off. That's P-L-A-U-D.A-I-S-F-Pod. Michelle, what boundary do high-achieving women need to set that they don't have set right now? Women need to set boundaries around energy management. It's less about time management and more about managing your energy so that you can show up as the best version of yourself. What is the difference between time and energy? When you think about energy management, it's taking that time to ask yourself, when am I most in flow? When is my energy most optimal? Is it

in the morning? Is it in the evening when my brain is firing all cylinders and my best work comes out? And it's being really honest with yourself of what is draining your energy, right? Is it people that you need to set boundaries with? Technology you need to set boundaries with. Your company that you need to set boundaries with. And so often we put everything else in front of, you know, of taking care of ourselves. And so this conversation is so important to have because we want to get ahead of those moments when we have the breaking points, the mental breakdowns, the physical ailments that manifest when we're not setting those boundaries. I think we have had conversations as a society about time management a lot, right? But I think we're only just starting to talk about

energy management. In your day-to-day, how might somebody who's good at managing their time or who thinks they're good at managing their time, get good at managing their energy instead. It's asking those questions to yourself. And so often we're sewing, go, go, go, to do list, check it off, check it off. And by the end of the day, we finally get to sit with ourselves when we should actively be asking ourselves in those moments of stress, of chaos, how am I feeling? Does this sit right? Are my shoulders tense up? Is my breath not regulated? Being able to stop at those micro moments and catching ourselves in the middle of a doom scroll, in the middle of things that deplete us to really think about, okay, is this where my energy is in flow?

Is this where it's most productive for me? And time management, I think it's such an antiquated way of thinking because just getting things done does not mean you're productive. Just getting through your inbox does not mean you're productive, right? It's can you get the best, most efficient work done in the time that it actually needs to take? It's about making sure that you're moving the needle for your business and not getting stuck in the busy work that so many of us do. And so I think that's the way that we should be reframing our time and less about getting things done and more about how do I utilize my energy in the best capacity to move the needle. One of the reasons I'm so excited to have you back on the show is that since we've

chatted, you and Nikki, who's your co-founder, have grown a lobby to a multi-million dollar business. You are in Costco's. You're in Whole Foods. Like a lot has happened in a short amount of time. And what I admire about you so much is that you have this absolute tenacity as a business owner, but you're also a fitness trainer who teaches yoga and you, I think, do a really good job of managing both your ambition while keeping your peace. From the outside, this has looked like nonstop momentum. Yeah. What has it actually been like? It's a roller coaster in all the best ways.

Yeah. Right? You can't experience the highs without experiencing the lows. And right now, I'm in the season of nervous system regulation because I was having a conversation with my executive coach, and she's also a psychologist. And she shared this wisdom with me that really changed my brain chemistry. And it was that your prefrontal cortex, your executive function,

the front of the brain, which is what makes this human, cannot be active in functioning if the back of the brain, the amygdala, the fight or fight, stress response is turned on. Like both sides of the brain can't be on at the same time. And she told me that it is my job as the CEO to make sure that not only I'm regulated, but my entire team is regulated. And if we are not regulated, then we cannot function. We cannot think critically.

We cannot analyze information. And that is really what drives momentum in a company, right? Being able to make decisions quickly, being able to jump on momentum, being able to act quickly. If we're stressed out, if we're constantly in this fight or flight response, then we can't take advantage of that momentum. And so that's been a priority for me. And that's what yoga and fitness have given to me is those forced breaks away from the company

to allow myself to shift back into that front of the brain, the executive function and get out of the stress response. Yeah. I think we know psychologically somewhere that, like, yes, rest is good for us. Of course. But I think we do the thing as women, and I'm guilty of this,

where I go, oh, Michelle, you need to rest. and my friends need to rest and my family need to rest and everybody's working so hard and you need to rest, but I can't. Like, I am somehow exempt from this and that maybe, yes, I can rest, but there's still something inside of us that says, oh, that's weakness. That is not us operating at full capacity. But what you're telling us is that if we want to be at full capacity, if we want to achieve our goals, like literally in our brain,

it is not allowing us to do that if we are doom scrolling constantly or if we're burning ourselves out. Right. Well, think about it, right? Maybe for the first couple years of building a business, sacrificing everything, giving your all,

you know, staying up all night, not sleeping, not eating healthy. That works until it doesn't. Yeah. And then at a certain point, you get the MENTTPs. You start to resent, you know, the company that you're building

because it's taking away the time that you're trying to create for yourself. Right, or whatever goal you're trying to achieve, it's the same way. Not even being, yeah, aside from being a business owner, it's the whole point is, you know, you want to make sure that, you know, you're enjoying the ride.

And I think that's the season I'm into is I was in so much of hustle, get it done, prove everyone, prove to myself that I can do this, that, you know, I can accomplish everything and then more. And there was a moment where I was hitting all these milestones, and I was like, I can't even enjoy it. I can't even appreciate it because I'm so on to the next. Exactly.

And I want to give permission for and not have anyone feel guilty about that because we all deal with it. And I think it's a construct of society. It's kind of this patriarchal structure where it's like you should feel lucky to even have the success. And it could be gone at any moment because there's this scarcity mindset that has been programmed into women. And additional programming of putting everyone else. else's needs above ourselves. Totally. And so it does take a lot of work and rewiring and reinforcing and these micro moments that

have to build for you to prove to yourself this is actually what you need is you have to slow down a little bit to accelerate. Yeah. We say a lot on the show that you have to get comfortable being uncomfortable and that growth or change or any of these things feel deeply unsettling and often very uncomfortable. Given that half of startups fail, by year five, what do you think that difference maker has been for you? You know, what you just said about being comfortable with the uncomfortable,

I immediately think about fitness, right? Yeah, yeah, I think about going to the gym. At first, it's super uncomfortable. You don't want to be there. You feel awkward. You maybe do a workout, and then you feel sore afterwards, and you don't like that feeling. But it's pushing past that discomfort because on the other side,

it's you're stronger physically and mentally. and you have all of these benefits from staying consistent and committed. And that's exactly it. That's the perfect analogy of like sometimes the discomfort is necessary because on the other side of it is growth. Right. It's development, it's progression. And as humans, we are designed to adapt.

And I think we lose side of that. And I think it's very natural and normal to want what's comfortable and safe, right? Especially in this world. Yeah. But I know deep down, all of us are, are going to be better off if we're in this, in this mindset that we are designed and we are able to adapt and grow and that we are a lot more resilient than we think we are. Fitness is the perfect example where there is nothing that will humble you more.

Nope. Right? And you really, it's like the thing you're doing that makes you feel weaker actually makes you feel stronger. Yeah. Like, oh, I'm going to the gym and I can't lift this heavy weight more than three times. Okay, we call that progressive overload, right? Like, that's how you get stronger. But in the moment, you're like, oh, I'm so weak, I can't do this.

Or I do bar classes all the time, right? And you're literally shaking at times. Yeah. And if you do like reform Pilates, it's the same thing. And over and over, you'll hear instructors say, no, like, this is change in your body. Right. But we do the things that in the moment actually make us feel sometimes worse of like, oh, I'm failing or I'm not strong enough or I'm not good enough. And it's like, no, that discomfort is exactly where you're supposed to be if you actually want to achieve your goals.

And what a beautiful thing. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And prove to yourself that you're stronger than you initially thought you were. Yeah. I find that so empowering. Yeah. Well, and often I think that level of discomfort, it's very easy for women to say, oh, this isn't working because I'm not good enough. Or, oh, this is uncomfortable because I can't do it. And I'm like, no, it's just uncomfortable because it's unknown.

Right. Like, you've never done. done this before. Right. And so it feels unsteady, not because you don't have a strong enough foundation for yourself, but because this is just new. Yeah. And I think about that with money all the time. Like women tell me, oh, I'm bad with money. And I'm like, you're not bad with money. You're learning a new skill. Right. If I try to speak Portuguese to you right now, I know no Portuguese. I'm going to be really bad at it for a while. That's totally normal. Yeah. But that's how you get better at speaking a language or running a business or getting better with money is you have to embrace that

level of discomfort. Yeah. And look, everyone has a day one. And your day 5,000 is different than someone's day five. And I think we have to remind ourselves, especially with social media, that, you know, we're looking at people that are years in sometimes. So there's stuff behind the scenes that we're not seeing. And we all, at a certain point, start at day one somewhere. Right? There's a day one for everyone. And it's part of the process. And I think it's such a, Like I said, it's such a beautiful thing to be able to start something to create something. And I'm trying to be more in this create mode versus consume mode. Yeah.

When I was growing her first 100K, and I've talked about this on the show before, I remember in the very early days, and I'll call her out because she's a friend now, I would watch Jenna Coucher. Yeah. And I would look at her and I'd go, I want her business. Like, I want what she has. and if you look back on my Instagram post, I'm very clearly like copying the way she puts her captions together.

You know, it was like very much like fan girl energy. Yeah. But I kept thinking, I want that and I know I'm capable of that. So why is it not happening for me? Like I was very impatient, 2017, 2018, even 2019, going like, I know I'm capable of this. Why isn't it happening? And what I realized over time was, yeah, let's say I magically a genie came and gave me Jenna Coucher's business.

Right. I would not have been able to handle it. Yeah. Because she's put in the reps in a way that I hadn't at that time. Right. She has all of this, you know, the years under her belt of experience and of trial and error. And so if I had magically gotten everything I wanted at that time, it would have failed. I would not have been able to run that

because I wouldn't have the skill set to do it. And I think a lot of women are battling this feeling of, I know I'm capable of more or I know I want more. Why isn't it happening soon enough? And what I realized is, like, as cheesy as it sounds, these things happen when they're supposed to, but you have to be prepared and you have to go through and do your reps in order to get to that point.

Yeah. Were there times in building a lobby or other goals that you had where you were like, what isn't this happening? And now you look back and you're like, oh, that didn't happen at that time for this specific reason. 1,000%. There's so many times I can speak to when I wanted to be at Whole Foods, when I wanted to be in Costco, when I wanted our business to be at this level that I would see other people at. And I kept getting into this vicious loop of why them and not me. And I realized that I needed everything to happen to me in the order that it did, looking back, because it helped me get

stronger and better to handle success. I am so glad that we launched in Whole Foods five years in versus on year two because the amount of work and tenacity and discipline that it takes to pull off a Whole Foods launch is something that we would not have been prepared for in so many ways from a nervous system standpoint, from a financial standpoint, from an experience standpoint. And so I have so much gratitude for things happening at the timing that they did. And it's so easy to look back and be like, I'm so glad. What a blessing. The whole rejection is protection.

I 100% believe in that. And the moment, it's really hard. And I think what helps ground me now is that I truly believe that whatever will happen will happen. And whatever's meant to be meant to be. And I know this sounds a little divine and woo-woo, but I think we also need to have the confidence that whatever comes our way, we're able to handle it. Yep. And that it is our job to take the lessons and bring in that gratitude for what is in front of us

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Become a fora advisor today at foratravel.com slash ffpod. That's F-O-R-A travel.com slash F-F-F-Pod and make sure you tell them we sent you. Forat travel.com slash ffpod. A lot of women listening, whether they're moms, whether they're trying to grow their careers or their founders like you and I, they're juggling a lot of balls in the air all the time. and they're living in this constant, everything is an emergency. Yes. Like, everything's urgent. How did you train yourself to distinguish between what is urgent, what's actually important,

versus what feels urgent? Yeah. I love this question because I definitely struggle with this in my first year of business. I thought I had to respond to every single customer email right as it came in. Sure. Because everything was so make or break. And that comes to the time and experience and reps of realizing. think, okay, the company's not going to crash and burn if I don't get back to someone within two hours.

And even outside of a company, you know, I think we as women tend to, like I said, put everyone else's needs above ours. And when we do that, then it ends up taking a toll on our mental health, our physical health. And it's at the end of the day not productive. And so how I was able to get myself out of that was the reps of just practicing, what would happen if I don't respond to this email in a couple hours? And it felt very uncomfortable and I could feel my heart rate raise. And I saw that after two hours, nothing happened. And I was able to come to that email with more intention, with more level-headed energy. And then just finding micro moments through my day where I can be more protective of my energy. So I do not go to bed with my phone next to me anymore. And it was

the best decision ever. So I'm not staying up late, scrolling on TikTok, wasting my time. And and going to bed later. And I'm not waking up to Slack and email notifications first thing in the morning. And these little micro areas where I can protect my energy and remind myself that I'm ultimately designing my life. And I think we forget that, that life happens to us when it's actually, we're creating and designing our lives. We're the main character in our lives. And so we get to design this movie. If we want to take a break so that we can regroup, we can. And if we want to you know, be able to design structures and systems so that we can respond to all the day-to-day, you know, stressors, that's okay too. Yeah. And I think having conversations like these are so

important to hear how are other people doing that and how it's so impactful and important to do that. You're once again reaffirming something that I've said on this show time after time that many guests have said, which is that mindfulness piece. Yeah. I think it is so important for anybody listening to take what Michelle just said and go, okay, how can I actually implement that in these moments of stress? So like you were saying, okay, realizing, oh, in the moment, I'm doing a thing that does not feel good and is not actually productive and that is not benefiting me in any way. So how can I stop it without shaming myself? Right. And then recalibrate in the moment. And that's what we're talking about is if you truly want to be more regulated,

you want to balance the sense of peace or the sense of calm with all of the goals you do have. Like this mindfulness is a required skill. And just like any other skill, you will get better at it over time. But you do have to stop yourself at certain times or certain moments and go, yep, this isn't serving me right now. Yeah. And can I offer one extra tip that I've been using? I have been asking myself this question of can this wait? Mm-hmm.

Where a notification will come in through Slack as I'm in the middle of like deep work for something else. perfect urgent versus not urgent. Can it wait? And I'll see a slack come in and I'll like, can it wait? Yeah, it can't. And that judgment call, it's a muscle you'll flex. It's not going to necessarily be strongest right from the bat. But I've been flexing that. And that's been so helpful. And I've been encouraging my team as well, where I'm like, I might slack you at a weird odd hour. You don't have to respond if that's not the most opportune time for you. And so the can it wait, I think is a really helpful, quick way to snap your brain out of that fight or flight. I have to respond right away. Everything is urgent and more into, let's be thoughtful. Yeah, I love that. Can't

wait? Yeah. Yeah. And also, is this serving me? Like always, is it serving me? And if it's not, again, not going, like, oh, God, I spend 45 minutes on TikTok today. Fuck. Like, you know, shaming yourself or like, oh, I let that person at work get to me again. It's just like, no, okay, is this serving me? No, okay. So let's choose a different thought. Yeah. Let's go down a different path. Choose again. Yeah. When you notice yourself slipping into a reactive mode, like we're talking about, okay, this thing happens, I'm reacting. What are the first signs in your body and your behavior that tell you that burnout is creeping in? Elevator heart rate.

Yeah. Shortness of breath. Yep. Sweaty hands. Yep. And these are similar to a panic attack. These are similar to a stress response. and the physiological response is, look, I'm more in tune with my body because I teach yoga and I practice that and I've been doing that for years.

But, you know, these little moments, even just thinking about how is my breath feeling? Like, am I feeling this tightness? Like, and where is this compression? You just said breath and I was like, I haven't taken a deep breath all day. Or my favorite, my favorite is, are my shoulders coming up to my ears? Yeah. Did my neck suddenly disappear? And I need to like drop it down.

So it's like these moments. Yeah, exactly. Take the deep breath. Everyone else take it. Like these moments, like these physical cues are your first line of defense. Yeah. Of realizing, okay, I'm in flight or fight response right now. Yep.

And look, we're not going to be perfect. Sometimes we get reactive. Sometimes, very still, very often I still get reactive. I do too. And what I try to do is build some systems or protective forces against myself. So if someone sends me an email and it immediately jolts me, I have now learned. I'm like, okay, can it wait? can I take a beat? Sometimes I'll run it through chat GPT and be like, hey, how would you respond or help me process through this?

Or, you know, I'm fortunate to have a co-founder. I'll be like, hey, I need to chat through this or like kind of chat someone that these are your peer or, you know, your partner. So to be able to kind of get it off your chest or write it down or set a calendar invite to come back to this leader. You know, all these ways are little tools that you can kind of create to protect yourself. Yeah. To try to stop yourself from reacting. Yeah. And it's normal. Happened to me recently. I thought that my period of reacting to this kind of thing was over. Like 2022, 2023 was going through a lot of like people yelling at me online and it feels very, I joke, it's pitch force and torches. Yeah. Like your body doesn't know the difference between people yelling at you online and people standing outside your door with pitch force and torches. Like they do, your body does not understand the difference. Yeah. And I candidly thought, oh, I have the tools to be able to handle this. I've been through this. I know what's going on. Right.

Happened a couple months ago. Super reactive. Wasn't fully in that space I was in a couple years ago. Yeah. But looking back, like a day later, I was like, oh, that was kind of PTSD. And I just went right back there. And I didn't blame myself again. I wasn't like, oh, you're not as involved as you thought you were.

I was just like, oh, interesting. Okay, so we got more work to do there. Right. How did it feel in your body? Oh, it's pitchforks and torches. It is like it is even talking about it, like knees weak, arms heavy, like sweat, like palms are sweaty. Like I also just feel for literally in 2023, my partner at one point found me in a closet. Like I had curled up in a closet because I was like, I need to feel as small

as possible. Yeah. And I need to have nobody find me and nobody can get me here. Yeah. Like that's when it was really bad. And so that same feeling, you can just see even like I'm getting a little teary. Yeah. Like that same feeling came up where I was. was like, I, yeah, I felt like a child. Yeah. I felt like I need to make, yeah, make myself as small as possible and you find the place where nobody can hurt me. Yeah. And yeah, it was like, okay, we've done a lot of work there.

Sounds like we still have some more work to do that. Yeah. Can I ask, how did you get yourself out of it? I called my lawyer. There you go. I love that. I called my lawyers who are great. We've been working with our lawyers now for like a couple of years, so they know,

me, they know our business really well. And I've also become friends with them. So they're there to both like, soothe me as like a friend and somebody they care about, but also to be like, I needed the cerebral person to tell me. Pull you back in. Yeah, okay. We'll handle this if this happens and this is what we can do. Otherwise, we're just, we're just going to watch it and nothing's going to happen. And I'm like, great. Okay. And then even in like 20 minutes, I, had calmed down because I had processed it with somebody else. Right. And also process it with somebody who I, A, trusted, but B, knew that they would give it to me straight.

Right. Right. Well, I think that's the first step is understanding where, what are your tools to kind of pull you out of that so that you can immediately in this stressed out state be like, okay, I know I have my lawyer. I know I have, you know, this close partner or for me, it's my C-O, it's somebody else in the team. I also will say, and I would love your thoughts on this. in 2022, 2022, when I was definitely burned out

when things were really, like, I had just launched the book, I was like not doing well. Yeah. Everybody had told me and all of the wisdom was, you need to go meditate. That's how you calm your brain down.

And I did that for so long and realized it wasn't working. And instead, I needed to like throw some fucking pillows around. Like, or I needed to like go on a walk or I needed to just like scream, honestly and just like get energy out of my body. How do we know

the difference between I need to, you know, put my hand on my heart, hand on my chest, take like 10 deep breaths, put a meditation on, and go to a rage room. Like, how do we know the difference? There's no one-size-fits-all approach. Yeah. And that's the beautiful thing, right? For some people, regulating and getting out of that state could be going on a run because they need to just, like, move it out of their bodies. I had to get it out of my body. Yeah. And for some other people, it's touching grass and getting into nature or petting a dog and just like reminding themselves that it's not that deep, you know, at the end of the day, we're like a tiny little blip of the universe and kind of get some perspective, right? It's different for everyone. And I think what we should practice,

and I want to empower if anyone walks away with anything, is that different things are going to work for different people and at different times of your life. So maybe meditation worked at a certain point for you, but then until it didn't. Yeah. Or at least for that situation. Exactly. Yeah. And situations vary. So I think it's like having this toolbox and go out and try. Like does running work? Does yoga work, does, you know, petting a dog work or does giving back and donating your time and volunteering work just to get yourself out of your brain and into thinking about other people, you know, try different things, see what works so that when you're in that stressed out state, you kind of have your list to go through and be like, okay, I'm going to try this, I'm going to try

this. Yeah. What works best, I think, is just knowing yourself and having those past experiences of like, okay, I need to just go like punch a pillow or yell in my car or, you know, really, really just see what works and kind of go down your list and be like, does this work? No, does this work? No. When I teach yoga, I tell everyone that Shavasana, which is like at the end of class when you lay down and you like... That's me for an hour in yoga class, by the way. I'm not doing anything else, dude. I'm just... Love that for you. Yeah. But some people, they can't rest. They need to tire out the body with like 60 minutes of movement and flow and breath work so that they can finally rest. And I think that's a great analogy for sometimes you need a move

things out of the body. That is me, honestly. And then you can be ready to, like, be with the breath. We do that at the end of bar. It's like, I work really hard for 45 minutes. And my meditation at the end of that is so good all the time. I can actually clear my mind because I've gotten it out of my body. You shook it out. And so I think that's the grace that we should have with ourselves. You're not going to go from, like, chaos to meditation in two minutes. Sometimes you need to have something in between to kind of physically move it out. Yeah. When we had Martha Beck on the show, Dr. Beck, she was so great, and we'll link the episode, but she talked about the antidote to anxiety isn't doing less.

It's actually doing something, like taking some sort of action. 100%. So is it like doing a puzzle or doing a project or, again, walking or doing something as opposed to thinking, oh, I need to, yeah, clear my mind in two minutes. And that is, you're exactly right. It is very unrealistic to say, oh, I am in fight or flight. I am freaking out.

And in two minutes, I'm going to be a blest out monk. Like, that's just not going to work. No. Have you heard of the five senses checklist? Oh, yeah, where you, like, talk about, like, three things you can see or, like, five things. Yeah. Yeah. Tell the audience.

Yeah. So I might butcher the order, but it's like five different things you see. Yep. And then four different things you hear, three different things you can smell, two things you can touch. So it's like going through all the five senses and trying to count, like, okay, I see that black door. I see this blue water bottle, I see whatever, and just calling it out, and it forces your brain to get out of the stress response. You're forced to be present.

And force you to be present. And that's great for panic attacks. Yeah. That's great for thought loops or spirals that you're going through. And it just helps ground your nervous system. A second thing, which I know sounds really silly, is just sitting down on the ground. And when you think about it, children, they play on the ground because it helps regulate them. Yeah.

And so sometimes when I'm in back-to-back meeting, or I'm just way over stimmy, and I need to, like, ground, especially if it's like, I'm at Costco all day or whatever, I'll just sit on the ground, and that helps me reconnect for a little bit. Yeah, I think that's great. Something you've talked about when in your early years, you struggled with building while also maintaining your regular life or even, like, losing friendships or losing relationships. Were those relationships ones that needed to end, or if you found a better way to balance that all now? I think the word balance is...

Yeah, oh, it's totally a mess. Kind of an interesting word. I think it's just redefining, right? And we go through seasons, everyone goes through seasons. You know, outside of being a business owner, women go through seasons of getting married, motherhood, we evolve and shift. I think it's just having, for close relationships that are worth having, redefining those with your friends and being like, hey, I'm in a really busy season.

I love you, but I'm just not going to have the time to do kind of. catch-up calls every week. But like, if you need me, like, we'll voice note back and forth. So it's just kind of like redefining relationships and being honest and communicative about what bandwidth you do have, what you can give. And as long as you're honest and up front, I feel like that's the best way to handle those relationships. I think it is also understanding that, you know, reason, season lifetime is so crucial with relationships. Yeah. Like, sometimes they're there for a reason. Sometimes they're there for a season. Sometimes they're there for your whole life.

Yeah. But there are going to be moments where you're able to be a better friend or a better partner. And there are moments where, unfortunately, that might have to be a secondary thing. Yeah. And that's, you know, the myth of women having it all, like, we can't. And that's where you properly called out the word balance because you can't really do, like nothing's really balanced.

It is a trade-off at certain parts or certain times of your life. 100%. I've gone to so many bachelor's parties of my friends where I bring my laptop and everyone is like going to sleep and I'm the one still working on emails or I'm in the middle of preparing for a big Costco pitch. And they laugh about it because they're my friends. They're not going to make fun of me or make me feel bad about it. I'm just like, hey, I'm in the middle of this. I have to do this. I'm still here. Celebrating you. These are my goals. I'm choosing to do this. Like this is something that's really important to me. Yeah. And they're so excited about it. And they're like, oh my God, we can't wait to buy your products in Costco. And once you bring people along the journey and you, you know, share with them what you're building, you'd be surprised how supportive, you know, the people who are your core people are. And I think that's a great litmus test of, you know, how are people showing up when you're going after your dreams and your passions? Like, what a cool thing. And hopefully you can inspire them to do the same. And then when they're going through a busy season of, you know, whether they're going through motherhood or whatever, you know, it comes back.

Yeah. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. When BetterHelp came to us and wanted to sponsor our show, we were the first to ask them questions about therapist, compensation, because we've heard a lot about it. BetterHelp's model is designed to offer both strong earning potential and real flexibility with compensation that takes into account the full scope of care, not just live sessions. There are also additional benefits that BetterHelp provides their therapists, like a monthly health stipend for eligible therapists with a full caseload and opportunities for bonus over time. And beyond compensation, there's a real focus on supporting therapists long-term success and well-being, which includes access to hundreds of

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slash ff podcast. We do quarterly leadership retreats at her first hundred K where we lock in for full days of strategy. And listen, if you've ever been in an eight hour meeting about the future of your business, you already know you're not remembering everything. Like, you think you are, you're not. And the frustrating part is the best, most important decisions, they happen in those rooms. I used to walk out feeling good and then two days later be like, wait, what did we actually decide? So I stopped relying on my brain alone. Now I use the plod note pin S. It clips on and with one press captures everything. Of course, with everyone's consent. And afterward, I don't have to piece things together. I get a clean breakdown of what actually mattered, what we decided and what happens next.

And if I need to find something later, I don't have to scroll through anything. I just ask a question and it pulls the exact answer in seconds. Or I can send the full summary to my team so we're all working from the same page. No more 10 p.m. Slack messages like, wait, are we aligned on this? Because now we actually are. And honestly, it's the difference between sitting in in a conversation and actually being present in it. It's got 98% transcription accuracy and works in person over the phone and on Zoom. Go to plod.a.ai and use code ff pod for 10% off. That's p-l-a-u-d.a-u-d. slash FF pod. You were mentioning technology.

Let's talk technology inboxes. When you are accessible, 24-7 with Slack, with email, with texts, it's so easy to feel. Like, again, everything's urgent. So whether you're a boss or a founder or not, like, you are just more accessible now. What boundaries have you had to set with technology?

like I think about the phone not in your room anymore. 100%. What actually works and what doesn't? Let's go down the list. Great. So phone away. I have my phone set to Do Not Disturb automatically starting at 10 p.m. So whether I want to or not, I'm not getting notifications.

I have to physically go and turn it back on. So I set that barrier with myself. I don't have my phone next to my bedstand anymore. And that has been fantastic in getting me out of the late night TikTok school. It's not serving any purpose. and in the morning, I'm not waking up to email and Slack notifications. I get to take a deep breath. I get to be present and grateful for my healthy body in the morning.

And then when I choose, I get to go online. It's not next to me. So I'm eliminating any sort of temptation wherever I can. I do the same. It's in my bathroom. Smart. I have to. And second, on Slack, anytime I'm in meetings,

I set notifications for Do Not Disturb. And anytime I'm traveling, I put like a little airplane emoji, so my team knows I'm traveling and I'm slower to respond. I'm hyper-communicative to my team, letting them know, hey, I'm going to be offline during these hours. And I hope that also encourages them, too, to set their own boundaries. And I think they have to see the leader. Your team has to see the leader set boundaries so that they feel empowered as well because I'm not just responsible for managing my burnout, but also the managing the burnout of my team.

Yeah. And I think we forgot that, that we have to set that example. And another thing that I like to do is I am not logged into social media for a majority of my day. I have dedicated times where I log in to engage with posts that we're posting that day, to get back to people on messages, and then I'm immediately out of there. And I've built that willpower to not keep logging back in. If you struggle with that, there's so many great apps. There's like the block thing, too, that I'm hearing about.

Clear app is the one I use. They're not sponsored. I have to look them up and make sure that's right. Or clear space. Yeah. Yeah, you can go in and set accessible times and then strict times. You can either do like a schedule or you can say, I've been more turning it off at night where it's like, okay, after four, I cannot touch Instagram until 8 a.m. next morning.

Yeah. I also set calendar blocks for this is my deep creative mode. And I just, I'm off the grid. I'm not checking my emails. I'm not pulling into Slack notifications. These are little tiny things that I do. And when I get to see, oh, wow, I'm so productive and I get that dopamine hit of things that I got to get done, that reinforces how much.

important it is. Yeah. And also just what we're consuming, unfollowing accounts that are triggering you, that are spiking your cortisol levels, muting people that are triggering you, that are just not serving you, kind of the whole is-is-serving me. Right. And also just being very conscious of the news that you're consuming too. It's obviously good to be informed, but there's a certain point where it's not helping you. No. And it's not allowing you to be regulated. And so there's so much more I can share, but I think those are the first areas that I would start with if you're struggling. I think I saw someone post about how depressed she was that she spent an hour doom scrolling. And it broke my heart to see.

And I'm like, yeah, like it's when you realize that social media, it's literally designed to keep you engaged. Yep. It's like a slot machine. It's designed to give you quick little hits designed that way. Of either dopamine or stress to pull you back in and keep you in. That's how they make their money. And it never ends. No. Your TV show eventually ends.

Right. Social media never ends. Especially when they went from the algorithm being chronological to now algorithm-based. Yeah. You could scroll TikTok for weeks without stopping. It never ends. And I want to give one more tip. Yes. I don't know about you, but I feel like my phone has to always be a part of me, like some vestigial limb. Sure. And so I'm trying to practice leaving my phone just, physically away from me.

Yeah. Like, creating some sort of a physical barrier, not having it be right next to me. Because I feel like I find myself just doing this like automatic, like grab my phone, flip it, grab my phone flip it. Whether I'm standing in line at a coffee shop or whatever, or like on my way to the bathroom, like, do I need my phone to take with me to the bathroom?

No. Yep. And so I'm trying to physically remove that tendency, that physical response of grabbing my phone and reaching for it too. I will often leave my phone plugged in the bathroom. And then if I'm doing a podcast or whatever for like chores, I'll just have my AirPods in. Smart.

Like the amount of times people call me or something happens. And I'm like, hi, I'm sorry, give me a second. And I have to like run back to my phone. But it works really well for like, I get to consume the content I want to consume. Right. But I'm not on my phone while I'm doing it. Yeah. You control it.

The phone does not control you. Right. Okay. I know you're loving this conversation with Michelle. I'm so grateful to know her and have her back on the show. But I also know that some of you, especially those of you who aspire to or already have a business that you want to build. some of this is maybe hitting a little too close to home, and you're wondering, will I ever figure out what business I want to start? Or am I even building the right thing? So fortunately, we have built a really

simple tool to help you find out. This is our side hustle skill finder. You do not need a new skill set. You do not need more experience. You already have the tools that you need to actually build a business from scratch. All of that is inside of you already. So this guide takes your actual job, and it maps it out to real business options that you probably haven't even considered. And it walks you through picking one and selecting and taking your first move. So this finds out which of your skills are already worth building a business around. It matches what you do every day to business and entrepreneurship paths you probably haven't even considered.

And you figure out what your first real offer looks like and the exact next steps to make it happen. Head on over to her first hundredk.com slash ffpod and download the guide for free. All right, back to the episode. Let's talk delegating because it is the one that we're talking about all of us being really difficult. I know that there's people listening going, yeah, I can't fucking delegate. So what is- Rebrand delegation. Delegation's hot. Sure. Of course it is. You actually want to achieve your goals. You've got to delegate.

I don't know if it'll be out at the time this episode comes out, but we did a millionaire mindset episode about like time and time being your currency, not money. and it's like you have to delegate things. And that practically doesn't mean that a bunch of people can hire people to make their lives easier, but there are ways that you can think about delegation. So what is the first thing that you delegated that actually freed up space for you?

The first thing we delegated was managing our social media inbox. And that's not to say that I'm still not hands-on in the content strategy and the brand, but it was not the best use of my time to be responding to every single DM. Oh, absolutely not.

And liking every single comment and responding to them, it was pulling me away from being in the creation mode. Yep. And that was the best hire to have someone take that cognitive load off of my plate so that I can be more in the creation and growth mode. Yeah. And I think it's also being really honest with what are your strengths and what are your weaknesses. And that's different for everyone.

So my co-founder, for instance, she's really strong with numbers. I'm not. So in a way, bringing her on was a way for me to delegate off the finances because that was slowing me down and I have no business being in a spreadsheet candidly. Yeah. And it's not where I thrive and move the needle best. So it's being radically honest with yourself of what are my strengths? Where can I move the needle? Where am I most energized? Yeah. And anything that isn't part of that, those are the gaps to start delegating out. Because ultimately you want to enjoy the thing. Right. Right. So yeah, I would start there.

I think the reason delegation doesn't happen is that although we know it's important, we all have control issues. Yes. And also there is ego involved where we think, well, nobody can do this like I can do it. And I will call people out. That is ego. Like that is actually very egotistical to be like, I am the only one with all the answers and only I can do this project. Now, there are times where, of course, only I can sit on this podcast as me and host it. Right. Those are the questions you have to ask yourself of what are truly the things that only I can do.

Yeah. Only I can speak on a stage. Only I as me, right? Only I can host this podcast. Right. But there's a million other things that I can delegate that don't have to be done by me or that I am actually not the best person to do. Right. So what mindset shift helped you release the control? without thinking the business would fall apart. I think Marie Forleo said this, that no one is going to be able to do 100% your job, but if you get them at 80%, accept that. Massive.

Yeah. And I think that mindset shift helped me relinquish that control of like accepting that no one is going to be able to do 100% the exact same style and quality and care and level that I can. But if I can accept 80% work and that'll open up my time to scale and grow, that's worth it.

And that helped me accept. that it's okay for everything not to be perfect. So long as it's 80% it's good enough, that'll allow me to grow in scale. And it's this shifting of this scarcity mindset that I was having of like, only I can do it. It won't be done unless I do it.

And this is it. I was creating a bottleneck in my own business. And when I thought about, okay, if I can bring in someone, if it's passable and good enough, and I can always refine it later, but it'll allow me to scale and grow and move faster. That's worth it. Right.

So I think it's just the acceptance piece has been a big shift. Yeah. And again, understanding that if you want to progress toward whatever goal you have, you have to rely on other people. Yeah. Like definitely in building a business, but also in, yeah, becoming healthy or growing your career or making more money. It's like you have to rely on other people to help you.

And that's our superpower. women. We're not afraid to ask for help and ask for directions. We're community, right? We're community builders. We're natural connectors. And so I think it's reminding ourselves that, you know, we can go further and faster together. Yeah. Which I know sounds woo-woo, but it really does help you reframe that we don't have to be so individualistic about everything. Yeah. And that you can rely on your community. You can rely on different support systems to help you fill the gaps so that you can go further. Yeah. And vice versa. You've spoken about the pressure women feel to get it right the first time.

In business, in visibility, and leadership, this is such a common thing. Yeah. And it's not just the pressure that we feel internally. Like, society puts this pressure on ourselves. Yeah. You have to do it correctly, or we will cancel you. We will defund your business. But we'll give a million trillion dollars to bullshit male founders on their fourth try.

Yep. How has that pressure shown up for you personally? I was letting the pressure get to me in the early stages of the business because I felt like there was no margin of error for me as a woman, as a woman of color, as a first-time founder. I already had all the odds stacked against me. And I knew there was people expecting me to fail. I knew there's people who didn't believe in me and were down to me every second in the way.

Still probably do. Well, we went to lunch a month ago. And I won't call anybody out. But, like, we had multiple, we had an hour-long conversation, uni and Nikki, about all of the people who can see this in Costco, who can see a nationwide launch in Whole Foods, and still go, I don't know. Yeah. And it's not, it's not because of anything about the business.

It's because of who the founders are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The gender of the founder. Yeah. And you see this with funding. Yes. Less than 2% of women get funded.

less than 0.5% and not even a full percent for women of color to get funding. So I literally had all the odds stacked against me. And I had some of my own investors not believe that I can pull off a fundraise. But how I got through that and how I try to push past that feeling is I remind myself that I have always figured it out. Yeah. And I think as women, we tend to feel that we have only one shot. Yeah. Or if it's not perfect, it can't be done.

And I try to come back to, well, I've made it this far. So obviously, I'm doing something right. Yeah. And kind of consistently reinforcing that we actually are a lot more capable than we think. And I love, you know, you and I've taught about this very viral audio of like, boys do it. Like, boys literally less qualified. Oh, we're going to be. Boys do it.

Less qualified. Less experience are doing a lot more. So I'm like, so why not us? Yeah. And I love that reframe to give us permission. And I think having conversations like this, seeing more women share their stories, seeing more women in business gives us the permission of like, okay, it's okay for it's not be perfect.

Like, if you followed our brand five years ago, we were a different brand name, different product lines. We were so messy. we were so ratchet and we were just so cringe and I laugh about it but I also love it. I look back and I'm like how sweet that we were able to evolve and we still kept going and we're like the cockroach that just wouldn't die. Oh yeah. And what a great story that hopefully other people can see that you don't have to be perfect right of the bat. And there's almost this relatability that I think people like to feel of like, okay, someone isn't perfect right off the get-go. And I think we I've definitely surprised myself

and how endearing it is to be imperfect and to not have things figured out right off the bat and I think that humility can also allow people to feel more connected to you. Yeah.

And for everybody listening, this is also where we as women cannot contribute to the pile on that inevitably happens when women do make a mistake. Yeah. Now, there are some mistakes,

right? The mistakes are on a spectrum here. Right. Right. But I think, I think that so many women, and especially female entrepreneurs, are not allowed any grace and are not given any space to publicly fail. Yet we're also expecting women to start companies and be role models and go out and do the thing and like, yes, go girl boss. So you cannot have

that hope and expectation for women that women are going to take risks and they're going to build things and they're going to take swings without also understanding that women will make mistakes. We're human. And it's... It's just going to happen. I so appreciate you saying this because it's so scary. Even the concept of building in public. So scary. It's terrifying. It's terrifying. It's terrifying. Right. And it's almost like you don't want the attention, which then reinforces wanting to play small and wanting to not take up space. That's what I mean is like the very things that we as women say were sick and tired of of like a society that makes us feel like we're playing small, like, no, play big. But then if you're going to get mad at somebody who are making a mistake

and they've owned up to it and all that's happened, you can't have your cake and eat it to. No, it is our responsibility. If we want women to take up space to be the ones who are driving financial decisions that are changing our structures and systems so that all of us benefit, we need to go around any woman who has made a mistake, take an accountability, put her arm around her and be like, girl, I got you, we're going to get through this. And that needs to happen. It's not, unfortunately, right now. I think we can get better. And then it allows more space for more women to take opportunities in their hands and to put themselves out there and to build in public and to share their stories and to create products that

benefit other women. But yeah, it's scary, right? To be visible. It's eating our own and it's not helpful. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I unfortunately expect it from some men. Right. It really pisses me off when it's from other women. Yeah. Because I'm like, you can't, again, you can't ask me to go out and put myself out there, knowing that I am human or you are human and like, that it's going to happen. And if you are on the other side, and I've been on the side too where I get triggered by a woman showing up and taking up space. Oh, me too. I have to pause and ask myself, well, what is triggering? Why am I upset? Why?

And having that honest conversation is so helpful because then it shifts me away from like, okay, there's actually nothing wrong with her. Or like, I don't like her. Why don't you like her? Right. And I think having that conversation, there's still girls that like trigger me or annoy me. And then I'm like, what is it about her that's annoying me? I'm like, she's living a life that I would kind of like for myself?

Envy tells you a lot. Yeah. And I was like, okay. Or maybe not. And it's just like, okay, like I find this about her. I'm like, okay, is it impacting me? Is it taking anything away from me? No.

Yeah. And I think just like getting really honest and unpacking and peeling back like these feelings of like, okay, she's showing me a life that I might want to have or parts of her life that I might want to have. I'm like, okay, then why don't I just focus on creating that for myself rather than even in my mind tearing someone down? Even if I'm not publicly commenting something. I'm like, it's not serving me, right? It's taking me out of abundance, expansion, creation mode and more into picking and judging. It's not serving you. It's serving the patriarchy. Like that's the only thing that's getting served. Division causes distraction.

Yeah, absolutely. And what happens when we're distracted, then we're not calling things out? We're not holding people accountable. We're not advocating for ourselves. We're not actually moving any cause that we care about forward. No. Yep.

My last question for you, Michelle, for the woman listening who feels like her ambition is costing her, her peace, what's one small shift she could make this week to actually protect her energy without abandoning her goals? put your phone away. I know that sounds very reductionist and simple, but if you think about it, our phones are distracting us.

Our phones are making us reliant on them. They're pulling us away from our, like, human-witchy wisdom within that, you know, ultimately knows that it's so, like women are so intuitive. Like, we're able to read rooms. We're able to anticipate things faster. We're able to pick up all these tiny cues.

And that's such a superpower. And when we're distracted, when we are pulled into, you know, toxic new cycles, when we're pulled into technology or social media, then we lose that connection with that inner wisdom and that ability to create and that abundance energy and putting your phone away, even for an hour, two hours. Just notice what that does to your nervous system. Notice how that allows your brain to think and create ideas. And that's what I would recommend. That's the fastest, easiest way to regulate. I love that. Michelle, thank you for coming back on the show. I will do this in the intro, so everybody will know. But I think if people didn't listen to your first episode, which they should, I am a very proud angel investor in you and Nikki. And, oh, I'm going to cry. I am so honored and proud of the work that you both do. And I say it to everybody. I talk about these brownies, too, that you are the two hardest working women I know. Like, you guys are on planes every other week. going out and live demoing in Costco.

Like, who fucking does that? Nobody does that. No. And I'm just, I'm thrilled you're back on the show. So plug away, my friend. Please plug. Yes. So, Alavi is in Costco's in the southeast and the northwest in L.A., Hawaii,

and we're in Whole Foods, SoCal, as well as Nevada, Arizona, and Hawaii. We're rapidly expanding in more locations in the spring, which I can't share just yet. we're also in HEB in Texas and Central Market and Bride Market. If you want to support us, shop direct, please. Shop our website. We do a lot of discounts there too. But yeah, we have protein brownies, dessert cashew butters. Our whole mission is to allow you to indulge and get more protein and fiber in without any of the junk ingredients. So you feel your absolute best, while also indulging and satisfying your sweet tooth. So huge thank you to you to the entire community for supporting us. It's so fun being back on here. And yeah, I hope the audience

was able to walk away with a couple nuggets to integrate into their lives. So helpful. Alavi.co. Yeah. Alavi.c.c.c.c.c. E-L-A-V-I.com. Thank you for being back. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, produced by Her First 100K. If you love this show and want to keep supporting Feminist Media, please subscribe or follow us on your preferred podcasting platform or on YouTube.

Your support helps us continue to bring this content to you for free. If you're looking for resources, tools and education, including all of the resources mentioned in this episode, head to her First 100 K. dot com slash s s pod are you one of those media strategy people clicking through slides scrolling spreadsheets yes good this is for you because

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