Financial Feminist - 29. Going into Business with Friends with Pentatonix's Scott Hoying

Episode Date: July 5, 2022

Have you ever wondered how to take a passion from a dream to a fully-fledged career? Today’s guest did just that –– and got to do it alongside his childhood friends. Tori is joined by none other than the Grammy-Award-winning artist Scott Hoying (Pentatonix, Superfruit) for an episode breaking down the ins and outs of the touring industry, what it’s really like competing on reality shows like The Voice, American Idol, and The Sing-Off, and the nuance of creating art with friends while also running a business together. No need to be a certified Pentaholic to enjoy this fun, thoughtful, and inspiring conversation. Pre-Order “Financial Feminist: Overcome the Patriarchy’s Bullsh*t to Master Your Money and Build a Life You Love”: https://bit.ly/3PpHvlC Abortion Resources: https://choice.crd.co/ See Tori’s infamous “Chair Girl” video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fzOMUcok9E Follow Scott on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/scotthoying/ Follow Scott on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@scotthoying Our HYSA recommendation [affiliate]: http://sofi.com/herfirst100k Follow Her First $100K on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@herfirst100k Follow Financial Feminist on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/financialfeministpodcast/  Follow Her First $100K on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/herfirst100k/ Looking for more actionable money advice? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://treasury.app/herfirst100k/money-journey-quiz  Leave Financial Feminist a voicemail: https://www.speakpipe.com/financialfeminist  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, Financial Feminist listeners. I'm Karina, COO at Her First 100K. Before we get to the episode, we want to take a moment to address the June 24th Supreme Court decision to overturn Roe v. Wade. This decision stripped away the legal right to have a safe and legal abortion. Restricting access to comprehensive reproductive care, including abortion, threatens the health and independence of all Americans. This decision could also lead to the loss of other rights. To learn more about what you can do to help, go to podvoices.help. That's P-O-D-V-O-I-C-E-S dot H-E-L-P. We'll also have resources linked in our show notes. We here at Her First 100k and Financial Feminist encourage you to speak up, take care, and spread the word.

Thank you, Financial Feminists. Hello. Oh my gosh. I'm so excited, guys. Hi, Financial Feminists. Okay. I don't like to play favorites here on the show, but today's guest is extra. Oh, guys, strap in. You're not even ready for this episode. Okay. Some housekeeping before we get into it. Are you subscribed? Have you left us a review? Have you shared the show on socials and tagged us? If you're loving the show, please share it with your friends. Please leave a review. If you're not loving the show, tell everybody that it's Dave Ramsey's show. That's the easiest way to support us, right? Is if you love the show, if you engage with it, please support us. Follow us on Instagram at Financial Feminist Podcast. Help the show grow so we can bring on amazing guests.

A lot of people don't know this in the background of the podcasting world, but if you want really incredible guests on a show, the easiest way to help get those guests on the show is by listening and by sharing. Because this fun thing that happens is you pitch people, you pitch big people who are very sophisticated and intelligent and amazing. And basically, you have to show that the show is worth their time. So we so appreciate your support and it helps us get amazing guests like today's. So speaking of today's guest, you all probably do not know this about me. This is, I almost said a dirty little secret, but it's not, but it's just so embarrassing. For many, many years, starting when I was around 17 or 18, I was absolutely obsessed and still kind of am with Pentatonix. If you guys are not familiar

with Pentatonix, you are. I promise. If you have seen a YouTube video in the past decade, you know who Pentatonix is. They are the Grammy award-winning acapella group. you know who Pentatonix is. They are the Grammy award-winning acapella group. Let me walk you through my timeline here. So when I was 18, they had just won the Sing-Off. Yes, that acapella singing competition hosted by none other than Nick Lachey. They had won season three of the Sing-Off and they were on their first tour. My best friend at the time and I literally went to the show, went to the venue five hours early, stood in the pouring rain. Thank you, mom and dad. We had purchased them individual gifts. There's five members of the band. They came out to grab coffee. We gave them said gifts. It was incredible. We ended up being front row at this

show. That would have been cool enough. I'm literally shaking. I'm so excited to tell you all this. So that would have been enough. That would have been exciting enough. Again, I'm completely obsessed with them. I know every song. I know their birthdays. I know everything. To top it off, for about three years of touring, Pentatonix performed a cover of Marvin Gaye's Let's Get It On. You know, Let's Get It On. And they would bring someone on stage and sing it to them. This opportunity was known as the chair girl. This person was known as the chair girl. And the chair girl would sit in the chair, hence the name, and be serenaded by Pentatonix. My best friend and I campaigned for this. We sent their tour manager a video about why we should

be chosen and we were pulled up on stage. This is simultaneously the best and the most embarrassing moment of my life. I have kept this video a secret for many, many years. However, we have linked it in the show notes for your viewing pleasure. I black out. I fully have, I have flashes of memory of what happened, but basically I not only turn into a total fangirl, something happens to me. only turn into a total fangirl, something happens to me. Watch the video, you will understand. It was incredible. I did not sleep. I did not eat for days after. I was so excited. So it was a very exciting day when Scott Hoying, a member of Pentatonix, one of the founding members of Pentatonix, not only agreed to be on Financial Feminist, but asked me to be on his podcast, and then also invited us over to his house, where we got to meet his lovely now fiance.

They literally got engaged like two weeks after we met and his lovely dog named bubba and it was i was so excited to be there as 27 year old tori but 18 year old me was shitting her goddamn pants that was just so cool for me this full circle moment of literally how it started versus how it's going. This episode means so much to me. And I'm just so excited for you all to hear it and had to give you the backstory. Kristen, our podcast producer, came with me to this one. And I was having a full on crisis in the car before I walked in. I was like sweating.

I was like, OK, we got to keep it together. We got to keep it together. We got to keep it together. And somehow I did, mostly in this episode. Scott Hoying is a three-time Grammy award-winning singer and songwriter from the multi-platinum selling group Pentatonix. He is a member of the Forbes 30 under 30 list, is Emmy nominated, and has headlined arenas around the world. You also might know him as half of Superfruit, You also might know him as half of Superfruit, that song guy.xex from TikTok, the six feet tall and super strong, we always get along song. That is him. It's one of my favorites. It's a bop.

I just need you to be really proud of me for this one, y'all. I only fangirled a few times. So in this episode, we get into really interesting topics like the reality of being on competition shows like The Voice and American Idol, what it's like to work and be contractually obligated to your friends, the finances of putting on an arena tour, and we talk about so much more. So without further ado, let's go ahead and get into it. as we discussed on your show i have been a fan of yours for a while oh my gosh i I love this. By a fan, I mean completely obsessed. Like PTX Instagram fan accounts. Yeah, Tumblr fan accounts, memes. Yeah, it was bad.

Consumed pretty much everything you put out. Honestly, I love that so much. It makes my heart feel warm. I did, oh, fun fact. I did Respect You All Night Long, a cover at my coffee house in college. Okay, that is amazing. It's one of my favorite things you've ever done. amazing because that's like it's one of my favorite things you've ever done thank you i think it's so underrated honestly thank you it's so good

you know i haven't told a lot of people this but i guess i'll debut it here i'm like kind of starting to work on a solo project and like yay and like because i've been learning to produce and like write on my own and you just inspired me that i should bring that song back it's it would do like that's a tiktok sound in the making right like it's so smart it's such a good song thank you and for those who haven't heard well I'll link it your old Spalding sessions version of that yeah yeah it's so good it's so good i love your tone yeah oh stop it sounded good on my head no thank you gosh um i'm just pissing my pants it's fine no i think it's just yeah it's a really smart song we'll link it but basically the whole thing is a sexual entendre and it's just

like leads up to all of these jokes and then it's like ah no just kidding it's like nope nope so i've been a fan of yours for a minute so it's really it's really cool to chat with you it's like nope nope so i've been a fan of yours for a minute so it's really it's really cool to chat with you it's cool to chat with you too i am a fan of yours thank you i am you're on my tiktok for you page all the time and i think what you're doing it's so embarrassing oh it's not embarrassing one percent i think what you're doing for so many people especially women and the education you're providing is really changing people's lives. And I think that's really admirable. Thank you. I really,

really appreciate that. You had such a huge impact on me. Well, four or five, well, six of you technically with Avi. And so thank you. Thanks for being such a huge,

huge inspiration and part of my life. So thank you. I'm like already crying. Okay. We're not going to cry. We're not going to cry. I want to take it all the way back to sing off days, which is how I just love this. Okay. And again, as transparent all the way back to sing-off days, which is how I discovered you. Oh my gosh, I love this. Okay.

And again, as transparent as you're willing to be, you win the singing competition after you auditioned for The Voice, right? Yes. And did not, quote unquote, make it. Yeah. And did you do American Idol too? Yeah, I had tried out for American Idol three times. I had tried out for the X Factor,

America's Got Talent a couple times. And then The Voice was actually the first show I did make and signed the contracts, moved into the hotel. Oh, did you really? I didn't know that. Yeah, so 70 people make it, but I was put on the bottom of the list.

So the teams had filled up with the format of the show. And so they were actually deciding between me and this other piano singing guy that looked like me and they picked him and so I had rehearsed my song was ready to go and then didn't get to do it and I was so devastated and that's when like I started figuring the sing-off thing out right so it's the best thing that ever happened to me right so you guys won the sing-off and then you get this record deal and some money but then you're dropped by the record deal or you're dropped by the label. Right?

Yeah. So the prize money was $200,000. My little pup is running around. Have you heard jingling? It's so cute. Am I taking his collar off? Thanks Mark. Yeah.

My boyfriend's here. Yeah. So we won the show and the prize money was $200,000 and you know, after taxes and splitting that with the band, it probably came to, I don't know, $27,000. Right, right, right. Something that I got a year later. Yeah.

But yeah, we had a record deal with Epic Records. But during the show, they were changing the CEO, the whole staff of Epic Records. Oh, so while you're trying to compete for this record deal. Yeah, the whole record company was having an overhaul. Oh, God while you're like trying to compete for this record deal. Yeah. The whole record company was having like a overhaul. Oh God. I know. And so an LA Reed came in and he was like, okay, I'm obligated to sign this group.

And you know, I think he did as any businessman would. And he went through like other acapella groups and how they financially do. And he was like, oh, I don't see it being a good business move to sign an acapella group, which is a fair decision. At that point. It wasn't. It wasn't. And I do remember being at Epic records,

talking to someone else who worked there and being like, I know that it's a risk. It's kind of like delusional optimism, but it ended up being right. But I was like, I know it's a risk, but I think what we have is really special. Like everyone seems to, it seems to really move people and I'm feeling very confident in it and I think you

just need to take a risk on us and she was like we don't have the time or money to be taking a risk on something that's like ultimately going to be a failure but we ended up being a driving force yeah yeah the understatement of the year but like what was that feeling of oh maybe I've made it or I've got we've got this opportunity after like so many tries like starts and stops and then the feeling of I don't know invalidation of like cool well we earned it but just kidding not really yeah you know it was interesting because I was at this kind of naive place in my life where I didn't think about it too much when we got dropped. I was just kind of like,

well, if we, we have YouTube, we can post stuff on. And like, I think if it happened to me now, knowing what I know about the industry, I would have been more devastated. But back then I was really feeling like everything is great. Let's go on tour. Oh, they don't want us. Another record label will want us. And I was fortunate enough to be young enough to have that kind of optimism, which I have lost over the years. Would you do anything differently? Honestly, I mean, I don't think so. I think that I do wish that I almost went to like therapy earlier in my life because it was so stigmatized that I avoided it. But I think that talking things out with a professional,

I would have like learned how to navigate this crazy life that was thrown in my lap. And I just like, there was a lot of things that were really heavy for me during the Pentatonix years that wouldn't have been as heavy if I had like talked about them and acknowledged them and sat with them. Um, so I guess maybe that, but at the same time, I think every single thing that happened good and bad led me to who I am and where I am so I wouldn't really change anything I appreciate that answer so you won three Grammys nominated for Emmys have all the success selling out Madison Square Garden like like crazy but I feel like still the industry kind of shits on acapella right it like it gets made fun of it's almost like a joke yeah and it's honestly kind of a cheap joke because it's like, oh, the theater, the choir kid,

the theater kid, the nerd. It's like it's so archaic. This is just like an easy like an easy target. Yeah. And sometimes like I think the impressiveness and talent it takes to do good acapella is kind of just shunned aside because it sounds cheesy to someone which is like such a kind of a cheap take to me do you feel like it's changed at all since you started what 10 years ago do you feel like the narrative has changed at all I think it has I think between you know the Glee's pitch perfect right all of it and in pentatonix I think that

there's a lot more appreciation for it yeah for singing and harmony in general and I think a lot of people have been the skill the skill yeah for singing and harmony in general. And I think a lot of people have been in the skill, the skill, the skill. And it makes you feel incredible. I think, I mean, I can go on and on about choir and how amazing and music programs. I did. I did that, too. Yeah. It gives you a place.

It gives you a place to be safe, especially for queer people and people that are different. And it's also a sense of identity. It's creating with others that gives you self-esteem. It provides all of it so i think a lot of people love like it's it's more loved in mainstream now because people are starting to understand that more right well i feel like you know because i was in the i was in the youtube comments and sometimes would go to bat you know because i was like no i love that no but like i would see all these all these comments would just been like, you know, like well-intentioned of like, oh, like, like I didn't realize this was this cool.

Like almost feels like weirdly insulting. You know, like people will comment on my Instagram being like, oh my God, how are you so confident? And I'm like, let's try that one again. How can you be a woman talking about money? Right, exactly. But like it still feels like even when you kind of surprise people or potentially win people over, it's almost begrudgingly. They're like, oh, wow, I guess this is a realistic or serious thing.

Yeah. And I mean, honestly, that kind of gave us a motivation. I've never minded being the underdog. Yeah, a little chip on your shoulder? Yeah, because I always root for the underdog. And also, it feels good to prove something you know when we won our first grammy i was so excited to tell the story that we spent 400 on that music video and we recorded and filmed it we filmed in a kitchen recorded in a closet it was like a diy situation

yeah the band didn't even know i was bringing blue contacts i stopped by a costume store on the way because i had a random idea to do it it's just like all these tiny little decisions it was just kind of our determination and just like our energy that we created by wanting to be creative and it led us to amazing things and I like having those underdog type stories because it's really fulfilling yeah I think one of the amazing things that you all have been able to do is, I think you've said it too, is like, regardless of whether you're like six or 66, you're going to have fun at a Pentatonic show. had a certain demographic that was you know probably christian family friendly and we're putting christian i'm i'm saying christian in a way that would maybe not be as accepting of you coming out as queer right or coming out as gay right so i remember even i think there was an episode of the sing-off where you guys got to like work with an organization and they wouldn't

publicly say it was the trevor project yeah like so what was that like trying to figure out personally your identity but also like publicly are you thinking to yourself will this affect album sales if I am true to myself and come out publicly like what is that what was that process like oh man it was a really complicated journey because you know when I was struggling with self-loathing I had been like you know I grew up in Texas and being really masculine and not being gay it's like is is a big priority for guys and so that was kind of ingrained in me and so having to unlearn that and then relearn who I am as a queer person and then also you know you hear your whole life if you're going to be a guy in the music industry or in the entertainment industry in general you do not want to be gay because part of your appeal

is like being lusted after something which is crazy sorry bud I'm a public sorry that's my public apology but it's just wild to me that a thing like that would stop me from being authentically who I am. Right, right, right. It's so silly looking back on it. But you can't just be talented. It has to be like you have to be talented and hot, right? Right. And I wanted to be a professional musician that I was willing to make any sacrifices internally,

no matter how damaging they were to me, to be able to pursue my dream. And it's really dark looking back, which is why I'm just so outwardly gay now, because I'm hopefully going to inspire young musicians that they can come out and still have a career but yeah it was complicated and then you know when I moved to LA and when Pentatonix was starting I was out to my friends and family and people close but we started to get momentum so then I was like okay I'm gonna kind of like be a little more vague about it to fans because I still had a little bit of that in me that I didn't want to ruin like Pentatonix is potential by being myself just really,

really, really dark and sad to look back on. And I'm, I'm so glad I've like made it past that journey. And well, I'm glad the world's more ready for it too. Same. Yeah.

You know, which sucks cause it should have been ready for it. same yeah you know which sucks because it should have been ready for it but yeah and so i feel yeah it was an interesting again as a fan like watching you know uh knowing like the family-friendly label that got put on you all was yeah it was like family-friendly in a way like oh they don't cuss and apparently they're all straight and like but you know it was like it was like family-friendly with a tinge of we need these people to be straight-laced but you know and it was like it was more the you know we didn't want to cuss and because you know it started out with kevin not wanting to cuss and we all kind of like felt that and then we we saw

that a lot of families and kids liked our music and so we were like oh we'll keep it rated you know pg and that that helped us get into the christmas world and that just kind of became our brand i never really associated hiding our queerness because of the family friendly thing okay at least from a personal place was it more your privacy it was more oh i guess well i guess it was i didn't want to hurt the potential of pentatonix which would be connected to but i never thought that deeply about it i just like it was also like i didn't want to hurt the potential of penansonics, which would be connected to, but I never thought that deeply about it. I just like, it was also like, I didn't want to come out personally as well. Which is in your right. Totally.

Yeah. And I know that, but I wish I would have come out earlier just because I feel like I could have inspired more people that way. But you know, everyone's journey is different and I, I don't want to say I want to change anything, but. Yeah. Well, you don't also, no one's asking you to be the sacrificial lamb or like no one's asking you to like you know sacrifice your own privacy or your own journey in order to help somebody else

right yeah and I don't know if I was ready to if I would have forced myself to before I was ready I might not have been well it felt like a soft launch I don't know if you ever like said it was like a soft hello I'm gay like I I again as a fan I don't know if I ever like said like hello I'm gay like I again as a fan I don't know if I ever saw that it was yeah it was a soft launch I you know I think I think I've always wanted coming out to not always have to be a a big deal a big deal I think it's cool when it's a big deal because it inspires a lot of people and but I I do think if someone wants to just kind of casually start being open about it like it doesn't need to be like here is my essay right it's not a press release right a press release right and there is value in a press release too

but I was like I'm just gonna start kind of getting riskier and super for videos and like and then like people just kind of caught on yeah and singing with you know referring to loves with he pronouns yes I was like my God, I'm saying he. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We talked before we started recording. You guys have been touring pretty much nonstop pre pandemic for what?

Eight years, eight years, nonstop. Like the grind, the pace aside, I wanted to talk to you about like the financial, like if you're, if you're somebody listening who is going as a fan to like a concert,

what are like the financial implications of tour that somebody would never consider? Like, what are you having to think about? Because you're hiring, of course, not just, you know, the five of you on stage, but you've got a videographer and you've got sound engineers and you've got photographers

and you've got lighting designers. Like what financial costs go into producing a tour? Oh man. It depends on the size of the tour. Some of our early tours barely cost anything, but we were barely making anything. But I think I'm like, you know,

a big arena tour, like something we do for Christmas, you know, there's eight trucks. You have to rent the trucks and pay the bus drivers and pay their hotels. And then you have your whole crew. We had a crew of 30, which is kind of a skeleton crew for an arena thing. You know, if it's like a Beyonce tour and she's like dancing with the water on the ground,

you have three people that are assigned to the water. Like there is a lot of people to pay. And she's also got, you know, 25 dancers on stage and everything else. Exactly. Yeah. And you have to rent, you know, rent the venue. It's an arena downtown Los Angeles. You know what I mean? It's like, it's very have to rent you know rent the venue it's an arena downtown los angeles you know what i mean it's like it's very expensive to rent the arena and then we um and pentatonix we

try to keep our tickets affordable you know because families want to come and so so it is a really expensive thing to do but at the same time touring is the most lucrative part of the business for every touring or album sales it's got to be probably you know it's touring for everyone pretty much that's why you know they say never do like a 360 deal with a record label where you give up touring and merch because touring is we're talking about that with amy yeah yeah yeah for you you don't have to tell me the amount if you're not comfortable like what percentage do you actually see as artists um well since since we're five people and we split it evenly, you know, it's like we have the gross number of money

we made from ticket sales. And then you subtract certain percentages for lawyers, business management agency. And then you have this much of the pie left. It is like a very small piece of the pie overall when you think about what we made. But it's still the most lucrative thing yeah yeah well and i had a question about this and i'm just gonna do it now so mention of course

you're not a solo act you're with five people or you know four plus you what are the sorts of processes or how do you think about collaborating with five other people? What are the benefits of knowing that any decision you make, you're going to need to all relatively agree or at least compromise? And then what are the downsides on that? Because I'm sure there have been many a time that you like had something. Yeah. Even like Kevin just being like, hey, I don't feel like cursing. And you all, you know, being like, OK, like hey I don't feel like cursing and you all you

know being like okay like I'm willing to compromise on that like what are the benefits of having four other collaborators what are the downsides of that oh man that is a really really good question I think the benefits are you know it's five brains five creative minds unfortunately pentatonics were really respectful and we do compromise and we listen and we have this whole kind of system where we try every single idea that's suggested. And then if three people are kind of loving it, you can feel the momentum go towards the decision. And I always think that we get the best possible thing for our brand because of that. So I do like the collaborative nature of that. The, I mean, the downsides are going to be you know obviously I'll be really

passionate about something and the group won't feel it's right and so I'll have an idea that I feel really good about die because of that yeah and that's always like you know a bummer but at the same time part of being in a group is trusting the conscious of the band and not like and yeah it's just it there is like a more energy it takes having everything you do in a business have to be agreed on by five people. That just is going to add a layer of exhaustion. Right. It's not just creative agreement.

It is financial business, how you take schedule. Right. Well, and to your point again, seeing a lump sum of money and having it split five ways. Right. Yeah. Like that's gotta be, you know, everybody hopefully did their job. Right. And that's great. Well, and to your point again, seeing a lump sum of money and having it split five ways, right? Yeah. Like that's got to be, you know, everybody hopefully did their job, right? And that's great. But it's also like, oh man.

Yeah. There's moments where you're like, whoa, I would have made five times this much. Right. But I don't ever dwell on that because I think that the five of us as a unit is what is so incredibly special. Yeah. And so I'm just like grateful to be a part of it. Yeah.

But I think a lot of people in groups, other groups, not our group, like can get obsessed with the whole solo thing. So for, what was it? 2018, 2019, your bass, Avi, your original bass decides to leave the group. Again, I have an interesting, interesting perspective on this, I think, as someone who has watched your career.

For me as a fan, what had happened six months prior is all of you had started doing solo projects. Oh, yeah. So you and Mitch had Superfruit, right? Kevin was doing some of the more classical stuff. Kirstie was doing stuff under her own name. And then Avi was doing his solo stuff as well. And when the announcement happened, I wasn't that shocked because I felt like I felt like I saw it

almost coming yeah was that intentional were you guys like creating safety nets for yourself thinking I think what if this doesn't work I think it's all of it I think it was a safety net thing and also we were in the group for four years and if you look at like past groups always around the four-year mark second album a lot of people like start to you know because it's a hard thing to do to be a group and I think that four years in none of us wanted the group to be done but I think that we all kind of you know you're in your like mid-20s and you're like I've dedicated my whole adult life to pentatonics. What would I have done if it was just me? It's hard not to wonder that. And so I think that all of us just kind of dabbled in creative things and, you know, super fruit was my way to be more liberated, more queer,

less having to adapt to more to five people. And so I think it was just a way to express ourselves, experiment, but we did have like open discussions about it all the time. And we had a rule like Pentatonix always comes first. And so everyone got to kind of do their thing, which I think was really healthy in the long run. Because none of us felt restricted, which is like, you know, when people feel trapped in a corner, then you start getting antsy. And Avi leaving, I think, was also just because of the four year mark. And it was a really exhausting tour schedule. And there's just like, you know, it was hard to be in a group and he wanted to do a solo thing and we totally understood. I think it was just like a coincidental

timing that the solo things happened. But it did cross my mind a couple of times like, oh my gosh, all my eggs are in the Pentatonix basket. And you know, if the whole band breaks up one day randomly, which I don't think, well, it's proven isn't going to happen after 10 years. But it's a fear that I think everyone has that's in a group. And you want to create some type of path because I'm like, I have no skills. I'm just kidding. I have skills. Yeah.

Being a Grammy award winningwinning musician yeah no but yeah for I think I always wondered like was there a moment where he was like hey I think I think I'm done and you guys are like fuck it doesn't mean we're all done yeah I did I did you know he had molded over for a bit and I did think that there was no way pentatonix could exist without him because he was um such a one-of-a-kind bass he's still yeah he's incredible yeah he's incredible and it so i was really scared and then you know the touring schedule was something he really didn't like a lot of people don't like it like the brian wilson from beach boys did not want to tour right well when we saw that again as a fan like i keep as a fan but like i saw you know in the documentary where

he was just like you could see that every time all of you whenever you saw your family for the first time after months it was a very emotional experience but i think uniquely for him like you could tell like he just did like it was hard it was hard he's a very introverted person who likes to make you know to make art and be rooted and be with his family. And tour is the opposite of that. You're sleeping somewhere different every single day. You're sharing a room with 12 people on a bus. It's a really intense experience and it wasn't for him.

But it was something the band really wanted to do. And there was other little things that weren't lining up and it just felt like the right timing. And he sat us down and was like, I'm going to do my own thing. I need a break. I don't want to tour this much and I want to make solo music. And we were like, good for you. Yeah. So when you think about bringing somebody new in, again, I've heard you talk about this,

but it's really interesting where you five have your processes and you've got to figure it out mostly right and you're and then one's leaving and you had that period of time where you didn't have a base so you're trying to figure out okay what does this look like with four people yeah and then bringing in somebody new like what is that process oh man like from a collaborative perspective I mean it was terrifying it was like you know it was we all had like solo projects going on so I'm like oh my gosh do we dive into this but yeah I am so unbelievably passionate about pentatonics and like I just think about it all the time so I knew that I was gonna do whatever it took to make sure we all did to make sure we didn't end and we went

through so many iterations of what we could be I had thought about I went through a whole moment where I was like we should tour with an orchestra and do kind of like elevated stuff that's like respected but do it with the four of us um but you know there's just something about the five people of the rhythm section that was just working. And so we, we realized quickly we're going to need a base and you might say it's not like you can potatoes, the meat and potato. Oh my gosh. A truce.

Danny. No, but I like, we, it was a process finding it. Yeah. Well, and that's incredible.

Matt is incredible. And I feel like he, I don't, well, maybe it didn't cause it wasn't just about finding somebody of course that was really talented and could keep up. It was like trying to find somebody who fit the vibe. I don't well maybe it didn't because it wasn't just about finding somebody of course that was really talented and could keep up it was like trying to find somebody who fit the vibe 100% which was yeah it was it was like so important to us to find someone who was because we had like

you know we had learned so much about the dynamic of the band and how important it is every single person's personality and how they fit. And like we, we wanted someone who was incredibly talented and it's hard to find bases in general. It's so hard. That like no acapella because bass singing is even different with acapella. Yes. When I feel like so much of it was just like,

again, getting a bass who fits the vibe, but also like the, the Kevin, whatever, you know, whoever bass you go with relationship relationship like so much of that is a give and take with b-boxer and base so yeah they had to be able to collaborate we wanted someone like with this really bright energy and yeah and it was just like there was a lot of factors and there wasn't that many submissions like you know we probably watched 40 people total and there was a lot of really good people and we

narrowed it down to like you know eight to ten flew them to LA and met with them hung out with them sang with them and there was a lot of people qualified but Matt just like his energy when he performed on stage just like lit me up I just couldn't take my eyes off of him and he was so kind and so amazing he learned our whole catalog just in gaze we tuned really well with him and then you know we did a Christmas tour with him yeah and he soft launch Matt a soft launch Matt yeah soft launch everything yes and and we like really got along with him and he's incredible and he's one of my best friends now and he's so charismatic on stage like he's so fun to watch he is and he is like that offstage

too he's a really good guy and i think that in a time where we were all getting pretty fatigued in pentatonix yeah um just because of all the stuff we were going through with you know he just came in and breathed this whole new life into the band and and we're all very grateful for him. Yeah. We were talking in your show about, you asked a great question about like, should you lend money to friends? We were talking about like, you know, contracts and all of those sorts of things.

You grew up with Mitch and Kirstie and now you're signing contracts together. Like how are you blending friendships with also being like these people who I dated and also I knew in high school, right? Like now I'm making business deals with them. That is really wild. I think it's never been an issue because from the very beginning, we've just split everything equally everyone and so kirsty mitch and i have always been like in the same like financial right place because we split everything right from the beginning and so there hasn't felt there hasn't been any like resentment and it's because someone had told me well we had planned to do that anyways but someone told me

like the cast of friends would like they split everything equally and they negotiate for each other too i think they would like you know go to bat for each other like oh okay well we're getting paid this and if you want all of us then you have to pay all of us that's amazing yeah and that's kind of what you know after we worked out our deal with pentagon splitting equally when we go to we go as a unified unit right we're like negotiating things. Yeah, no, that's really smart. And I feel like, especially for you three, you were all, I'm assuming,

in very similar financial and career places because you're all roughly the same age. And it was like, cool, graduate high school. Now we're going to do this. Yeah, totally. I know. Yeah, I went to USC and it was SoCal, SoCal,

SoCal, SoCal. Still the best acapella group in the country. For sure. And it's so funny because I feel like, you know, I only went for a year and was in debt for four years because of it. I know it's a very expensive school,

but I'm so glad I went because I like, not even just for particularly for the education, but for the acapella community and meeting Ben Bram, who I started with. Yeah. Meeting Rozzy and like, not even just particularly for the education but for the acapella community and meeting Ben Brim who I started with. Right, right, right. Yeah, meeting Rozzy and like,

so it was more of a... I forgot she did USC too. Yeah, the people I met there changed my whole life. Who was your roommate? Remind me. Shea Goon.

Yes. Yeah, amazing. So underrated. That man's vocal. Oh my God. He can sing anything. His range. What was it? You did a, was it a Dynamite cover? No, Titanium. Titanium. Titanium. We did that at Roz man's vocal. Oh my God. He can sing anything. His range. Yeah. What was it?

You did it. Was it a dynamite cover? No titanium. Titanium. We did that at Rozzy's house. Yes. His he's in the original key in the original key belting. Like I could not,

I could not believe it. I know. He's incredible. Oh man. That's so cool. Yeah. We were two competitive Queens. Cause we were like roommates queens because we were like roommates

but we were like the two riffing singers and we were like you're like for enemies no i literally loved him so much but it was like funny how that dynamic that's so competitive okay something i've always always always wondered when you cover a song are you paying royalties to the original artist on that song oh my god and if not how are you getting so disappointed in me because i don't actually know a ton about this i'm just curious because you've been doing obviously you have original music as well that's phenomenal but like pentatonic started with covers and i always wondered i'm like are they paying daft punk a royalty for everything what does that look like so there's like man i am not qualified to be talking about

this but there's like the songwriters there's like the man, I am not qualified to be talking about this. No, you're good. As much as you know. There's like the songwriter, the publishing share, the songwriter share, and then like the mechanical share or something like that. We get a, we pay the artist a mechanical license to be able to release it. And then the writers of the song or the people that own publishing will get a piece of that. But we don't make much money at all on covers. Covers are more an investment of like gaining followers and traction. Wait, so you're telling...

Hold on. So until you released the self-titled album full of originals, you made no money? No, we made money. You made money touring, but did you make any money off...

No, we made money off sales of the album. Oh, I was like, what? Oh, no, we made... So for like four or three three years you made no money off of the music you created oh no we you make money off of the covers but just not as much as you would sure sure okay i got it like your youtube ad revenue right yes yeah is a lot less for covers the way it works interesting but because of licensing right yeah exactly yeah so i was kind of looking at it more as like you did we did make money because we sold a lot of those covers but yeah i was seeing it more as

like getting eyeballs on what we did so we could sell tour tickets nope it's smart so when you think about like evolution of music was the big i think first big viral video but you had oh my god what 40s 50 songs in that oh yeah it was like 30 it was crazy yeah are you paying royalties to i don't know well that one we don't sell so whenever it's like oh right because it's just you're doing a cover on youtube yeah got it because anytime there's a lot of songs in a medley it's like so impossible to get everyone to approve and like right and you don't make any money on it and so a lot of our evolutions aren't on dsps but like a daft punk will be because it's like six songs in one artist right yeah so is there ever a moment where you're like i want to put

this on the ep i want to put this on ptx volume x and you couldn't get the rights to it yeah oh man that's happened multiple times well we've had songs that we've like recorded covers for and couldn't put out we've had to change like our change evolutions before take songs out put songs in and then we you know went and performed evolution of beyonce on the ellen show and she was it was in two days but they were like we couldn't clear this one this one this one and it's like you can't just easily take songs out of an arrangement it's a whole new thing you have to learn and uh and that was back when we did a lot of stuff by ear on the road so we were like by ear changing and rearranging all of evolution to beyonce at hyper speed to be able to

perform it which pause if you're not a musician is incredibly difficult like if you're if you're not a musician listening like that is incredibly difficult it was it was insanely hard but those type of and also on the sing-off we did a lot of our arrangements by ear right right i'm so glad that we were thrown into that because it just trained us as a group the work ethic and kind of like by ear thing you have to do and how create most creativity comes from improvisation and so we strengthen that muscle in the formative years of pentatonics and so i'm very grateful for. I just remembered a question that I've wanted to ask you for a decade. Oh my God, I'm so excited. And I didn't think of it until now.

Who came up with the Dog Days Are Over, Mitch solo moment? Oh my God, I did. Yes, I thought it was you. I've had an inkling. It's still one of my favorite arrangements. It was the most smart fucking choice especially on a fucking finale and i know that arrangement didn't come through

until like what the night before at least that's the lore like such a smart fucking choice oh my gosh thank you and i just i knew like that we knew mitch was gonna sing the bridge and i knew i wanted him to do it in like a really like soft gorgeous way and then like we used to have it where the chorus would end and there was dramatic space and then he would start and then i remember it was like the day before where i was like just hold the note so right when we all cut out it's just you instantly i literally am getting chills just thinking about it like oh it's it's still i know it i know it was like so long ago but it's still one of my favorite moments that you guys have ever done it was just such a thoughtful thoughtful choice i really do feel like that was like the beginning

of my creative journey and really building self-esteem and creative choices you three were what like 19 yeah we were babies babies little babies no i've always i literally remember and i was like oh my god i'm so glad i remembered yeah we added that last second oh man that week was so stressful i remember i had no voice i had like to get a steroid shot 10 minutes before the performance yeah i couldn't even make a sound and if you watch watch it, I am screwed. You are belting for your life. Well, it was literally me just physically trying to make it work. Right.

I was also feeling, you know, it was very, it was a lot of pressure that week. So there was a lot of emotion. Well, they chose your song for you too, I think.

Yeah, they did. We were given that song. Right. But I was excited because I love the drama. And that was like a dramatic song. It's still, you know,

even obviously with, with Avi having left he gives that that interview at the end which i still think is so beautiful where it was like yeah he's like i want to do it for the rest of my life and i was like it's still one of my favorite moments i know me too that was such an emotional day i'm sure well and just i mean i don't mean to go back to this thing off but like it's such an interesting concept where it's just like, hi, new arrangement, sometimes two every week. Also, you have a group number that you have to learn and it's super campy and we're going to perform it at the beginning.

And then, oh, also you're going to, yeah, you're going to compete on a singing show where it's not just like you singing with musicians. You're also arranging the actual things you're singing and also there was groups with 19 people who needed arrangers and there was like collegiate all the collegiate groups exactly and there was like three arrangers available so we didn't get arrangers a lot so that's why we started learning to do it just by ear oh so it was more it was like i we have to do this if we're gonna succeed yeah i mean ben bradley working on the show and so it was more, it was like, we have to do this if we're going to succeed. Yeah. I mean, Ben Brown's working on the show. And so he was like down to help us.

And he did a lot. He helped us a lot. But he also like was busy, really busy with all these other groups. And so to, you know, make something we were proud of efficiently, we had to learn how to kind of do it ourselves and as well as work with Ben. So yeah, it was stressful. And then also the rehearsals for these opening numbers were at absolutely crazy times because I don't know how this was legal.

I'm not trying to expose it, but we would have like a midnight rehearsal. Shows can't, shows not a thing anymore. I know. Nick Lachey's got his own new show now. He's doing fine. Those reality shows back then, I mean, like it is wild what they do. Like the contestants are, i mean not as much on the sing-off but i've heard these horror stories about american idols they're cattle

people peeing their pants because they will not leave rooms and stuff yeah but we yeah it was it was a high stress situation but i was just pumped to be there having auditioned for yeah a bunch of other things yeah jesus i was like i'll do anything i just am happy to be here this actually segues into so you guys blow up right you're in your early 20s how are you navigating fame lack of privacy like and again a weird vulnerability moment but like I was probably part of the problem. Like, you know, I was trying to figure out where you were up to and figure out what's going on in your life. And I definitely had a parasocial relationship with all five of you. And like, like, what is that process like of being like very unknown and then being famous?

And yeah, what is that? I think that it can be a really scary process for some. And I guess it was scary at times for me. But overall, I was really, really excited because I wanted to just sing professionally my whole life. And I knew how hard it was to get any type of notoriety or momentum in the music industry. It's like and once it happens, I was very precious about it. I was like, I have to use this moment.

So I was I was so pumped that it didn I was like, I have to use this moment. So I was so pumped that it didn't really bother me, the other aspects of it. I guess it was just more learning how to balance, staying connected to my friends, working but not working too much, what to do financially, working as a group,

making huge life-changing decisions quickly all that stuff is really wild but i also will say that pentatonix i feel like we grew kind of gradually yeah um and never became like truly tabloid famous so it i think it was a different experience for us than it would be for like an olivia rodrigo who's like the number one celebrity right overnight and then having to in a pandemic in a pandemic yeah yeah and make all these huge decisions at such a high level with all eyes on her i do think we just kind of like yeah went viral and grew and grew and so that was nice to can you still go places without getting recognized um i can go i feel like i can go anywhere without feeling like oh i can't go there i'll get mobbed. I'll even go to Disneyland

and I'll just get recognized a couple times. But I feel like Pentatonix fans have always been so respectful. I've never felt like, oh man, I wish these people would leave me alone. I've never felt that. But I feel like it's different for a Taylor Swift or an Ariana Grande.

Totally, where people are breaking in their houses to sleep in their beds. Real thing that happened to Taylor Swift. Whoa, oh my oh my god that's so scary she talked about it on her documentary she was like literally somebody broke into my house and slept in my bed also i feel like that's happened to her a couple times or at least like stalkers would not be shocked yeah i've had stuff sent to my house which is a little uneasy like makes me feel uneasy fan art or like anthrax oh no anthrax yet don't get any ideas don't get any ideas no but I've received like fan gifts and honestly they're really sweet so it's not like I want to say anything negative but also anytime someone has your address it's uh

that's a little yeah it's like a little bit unnerving one of my favorite favorite things that i saw was you posted a video a couple years ago i think it was your christmas gift to your parents where you paid off their mortgage oh yeah it's literally like gonna make me cry it was so sweet i've met your parents they're lovely i've met them what sort of financial opportunities has fame or just success quote-unquote like afforded you? Oh man you know that that is definitely one of them I can like being able to do that for my parents was a really emotional moment for me and something I'd always dreamed of I think a big thing that it has provided me is just that layer of stress is not there as much not stressing about not living paycheck to paycheck not stressing can I do this is this smart

there's just a freedom that comes with that which I've always been very grateful for ever since pentatonix those would be the main things but yeah I would say I'm like the same level of happy that I was when I didn't have money there's just a sense of freedom so it's like a different kind of happy yeah that makes sense have you had a holy shit I've made it moment oh yeah I what was it do you remember the first one the very first one was probably that first tour that you went to yeah yeah that's the first time I'd ever been in performing a show where people were screaming and yelling. And when I did a riff, people would freak out for it. I'd never really had that in that way.

And night after night, that was definitely a moment. Anytime we had our first viral videos, Radioactive Daft Punk or somebody that I used to know, just seeing the numbers rack up. Yeah. It was just like really, really surreal. Two more that come to mind are when our album was, when Mary Did You Know was going really viral. And that album was like 100,000 sales each week, which ended up going platinum that December. And that was just like a really, really big deal.

And then Sesame Street. Yeah, I remember the Sesame street days oh i loved that i just like it was so cool to be on there yeah but lots of moments the grammys i mean it's just been incredible yeah yeah cool oh and you went yeah the original album went number one too yes oh my god that was such a moment yes because you beat was it demi lovato demi lovato and we had been like it was like a race i watched it and i remember doing like 30 phone interviews for three days straight just on different radio stations to sell and we were like doing meet and greets selling albums we were doing

everything we could and then like it ended up we got the number one spot by a hundred albums or something oh scott really yeah we barely barely barely shit i know i don't even know if i'm allowed to say that but leave it in okay spicy I don't know it was like somewhere like 100 to 400 albums was really really close but I am obsessed with confident the album that was a great album but I was striving for that top spot yep do you still feel challenged by your work yes I do I really do the reason I had to think about it was because I feel like in some ways, this is so exciting to talk about because I think Pentatonix right now is making a massive breakthrough and we're about to, we are about to reach this whole new era and level for us. It was so exciting at first. There was so much to experiment with in the acapella world.

And then we've done hundreds of arrangements. We started to fall into a little bit of doing stuff we've done before that we're really, really proud of. But I feel like right in this moment, we are writing, creating, dreaming bigger. And we're more unified than I think we've ever been. Everyone in the band is like best friends, texts going all day. And like, not that we haven't been friends in the past,

but like we're so unified right now. No, because I always, I was like, God, 10 years, you gotta be getting tired. Like the opposite's happening.

That's so cool. How does that feel? It feels like such a relief because I, a relief. I mean, it's a relief because like i have the same thought i was like after 10 years like are we found it like let's just phone it in for a while i've fallen in for this album like it's fine everyone has this like adult energy and we're all because we're so unified there's an energy amongst us that is causing ideas to come liz gilbert style like

ideas to come that are just i feel like really leading us down a really cool path and I think some amazing stuff is coming up the next few years yeah you've also started now founding groups oh yeah not just pentatonix citizen queen is amazing acapella kids what is the difference in involvement between founding a group that you're a member of versus founding a group that you're kind of shepherding? Ooh, the difference is with like a citizen queen or Acapulco kids, when you're mentoring,

you're trying to help them find their dynamic and find their way of creating and like navigating the music industry. Whereas like in Pentatonix, I'm like in the thick of it. Right. Because it's, I think it's important that I don't insert myself too much into like citizen queen or anything.

Yeah. Cause I want them to be able to be self-sufficient. It's something that Pentatonix, you know, learn to do by arranging on our own and all that stuff. And so I'm trying to like guide them, help them, but also let them find their own legs and ways.

Yeah. Which I think, yeah, you get to be involved, but you get to let them kind of figure out what that looks like. Yeah, I'll brainstorm with them creatively. I'll connect them with the label to help them get a label deal together. Right. Which I like love being able to do because you get to skip some of those hurdles and just kind of make art, which I was so happy to do that for them and for rock pop.

Right. The opening of the doors and like the Kelly Clarkson show where you're like, cool. I've toured with you. I can call you. Exactly. Yeah. But it's like,

there's also like, you have to be careful that you're not like same thing as like raising a child i guess sure if you do everything for them when they're on their own as an adult yeah yeah yeah no that makes total sense yeah my final question for you yeah scott in 2011 2012 what would you tell him you tell him oh man I guess I would tell him you know I'm thinking of back to the future I'm like I wouldn't want to mess up my future right right butterfly effect yeah yeah so I'm like very careful what you say no just kidding I would just say everything's gonna be okay because I think there's been moments over the last 10 years where I felt so, so like dark emotions and some dark emotions that I'd never had before where you don't know how to handle them or you don't know if they're going to go away. And now that I've had 10 years of experience and knowing that these emotions do pass, especially if you sit with them. Yeah. And I've known that things do get better. I think I,

I think I wouldn't have been so scared and terrified in that moment. So without ruining my future via the butterfly effect, I would just say everything's going to be okay. And all the, all the harder times I had you get through. Amazing. I might end it there there i also have one more question i don't know if i will include this i've been wanting

to ask people this my um my best friend and i have had a two-hour conversation about uh this question yes it's this question oh my god i'm so excited okay and i feel like you're a perfect person to ask okay what celebrity do you feel like you could get at your best you are looking hot you are charismatic like yes like you're at a bar and like what celebrity do you feel like would fall hook line and sinker if I was like feeling like I was crushing an outfit and had first of all I think it has a lot to do with like where I'm at confidence wise. A hundred percent. Because like, I feel like when I'm on, I can like really exude sexy.

But when I'm not, it's the opposite. But that's what I'm saying. It's like you're on. Okay. I really don't know. It's okay. Again, I've had, I've had conversations that have lasted hours with friends about this. I don't, I don't know. Oh my gosh. I want to have a fun answer, but I really don't know.

The fun part that I start to think about is it's not just, of course, like it is like 100% a confidence question of like, who do you think you could pull? It's also like, do you think they would be into you and receptive? because like everybody i'm very public on my love of tim the chalamet i don't think he i i think i'm hot i don't think he would be interested like i honestly don't think i think you might thank you for saying that i paid him to say it no but like i don't i don't think i would definitely like that no i don't think he would because it's like body type of who he's dated prior like and the other thing for me is like i'm not going to be the person and again self-aware this is not me being self-deprecating

i'm not the person who's going to walk across like a bar and be like oh god it's going to be like me sitting with you like for a half hour over a whiskey and then i've got you but like yeah you know i'm at my most confident and feeling really hot i do do think that I could charm someone, even if they were quote unquote out of my league physically or something. I think that I am, I can turn on the charm. My answer is James McAvoy. Let me go ahead and Google who that is.

I know the name. He was Mr. Tumnus among other things. Last King of Scotland. Oh my gosh. Yeah. He was in X-Men. Yeah. Oh my God. A bunch of things. Yeah. Atonement. Yeah. Yeah. He's been in Last King of Scotland. Oh my gosh. Yeah. He was in X-Men. Yeah.

Oh my God. A bunch of things. Yeah. Atonement. Yeah. He's been in a bunch of things. You could definitely. And he's also,

he's just like very, yeah, we would have witty banter and I'd get him that way. I love that. Actors are so smart. Thank you so much. I'm a corner.

Oh, that's a fun question. It's fun. That's a fun. I know. I'm a corner. Oh, that's a fun question. It's fun. That's a fun. I know. I know. Sorry. You're the first person I've asked on a podcast.

Cause I like, I was trying to think of like gay celebrities and love was like, there's not like a ton. Well, and it's like, would you also be into that? I also be into them. I feel like dating a celebrity has never been like something I've wanted to do.

That's scary. I get that. Thank you. Yeah, of course. Thank you for having me. That's scary. Yeah, I get that. Thank you. Yeah, of course. Thank you for having me. And thanks for doing my podcast too. Of course. I know you're like a behemoth of podcasts.

No, stop, stop, stop, stop. Our little engine that could. Nope, nope. It's so fun. Thank you. Before I forget, where can people find you? Oh, yes. So we did a podcast with Tori on ours.

It's me and Rozzy. It's called Ugg You're So Good. And follow me on socials at scott hoang amazing yeah thank you thank you thanks for being you of course thanks for being you uh bye guys bye like i mentioned before since we recorded this episode scott has gotten engaged so congratulations to him and mark mark is actually from seattle which we bonded over and so i'm so excited for both of them and so excited uh just for everything that scott has going on and everything that pentatonix is up to so you can follow scott on instagram at scott hoeing h-o-y-i-n-g and listen to pentatonix wherever you get your

music and also superfruit because superfruit's just fucking bomb. Don't forget to rate, review, subscribe. Thank you for listening. Thank you. If you're a pentaholic out there, know that I see you, know that I am you. Thank you for joining. Thank you for listening to this episode. And as always, have a lovely rest of your week. I'll catch you later, financial feminists. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap. Produced by Kristen Fields. Marketing and administration by Karina Patel, Olivia Koning, Sharice Wade, Alina Helzer, Paulina Isaac, Sophia Cohen, Valerie Oresko, Jack Koning, and Ana Alexandra. Research by Arielle Johnson,

audio engineering by Austin Fields, promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolfe, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K team and community for supporting the show. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests, and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com.