Financial Feminist - 56. Redefining Your Personal Brand with Corporate Natalie

Episode Date: November 15, 2022

Can building a personal brand help you in your job hunt? Just ask our guest, Corporate Natalie. You might recognize Natalie from her viral TikToks, where she pokes fun at corporate life –– she joins us today to chat about building a personal brand and how to use that brand to either build your own thriving creator career or land your dream job. Tori and Natalie also chat about how the creator economy is changing the game for pay transparency and the joys and challenges that come alongside being the face of an internet brand. Learn more about our guests, read episode transcripts, get resources from the show, and more on our show notes page: https://herfirst100k.com/financial-feminist-show-notes/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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slash legal slash ca dash pru dash disclaimer. Hi, financial feminists. A quick note before we get started. We will be taking a week off next week for Thanksgiving break to give me and my team some time to relax with our family and friends. So no new episodes next week, but please do not fret. You have over 50 episodes of our back catalog to dive into or to revisit. So if you've listened to like half of a previous episode and you haven't gone back or you missed some or you just need to hear some again, go back, deep dive, revisit. We'll be back before you know it. I also want to let you know that now is a great time to make sure that

you're subscribed to our newsletter and our email list and following us on social media because our biggest sale of the year is happening Black Friday weekend. I can't drop details yet, but if you've been wanting to finally pay off your debt, maybe start a side hustle, grow your money and your wealth and have a lot more flexibility and also, again, avoid that panic Googling about how do I save money question mark at two in the morning. You might want to wait until next Friday to score a major deal just from one financially savvy friend to another. All right. Back to the episode. Hello, financial feminists.

Welcome back. Welcome back as always. So excited to see your shiny faces. Sounded like moosh. That's a shiny sleeping beauty. I think that's the second time I've done that. I don't know why. In my head, it's just like Eddie Murphy Mooshu whenever I greet you all. Honestly, that's how I wish I was greeted every morning was just a little dragon, not lizard with some porridge. All right, we've got a great episode today. Some housekeeping things. First of all,

happy holidays. We're getting closer and closer. We got some Thanksgiving action coming out. We post Halloween. We have Christmas and Hanukkah and Kwanzaa. So happy holidays to all of those who celebrate. As always, too, we have Financial Feminist, the book that is available for pre-order wherever you get your books. We are so close. We're like T minus, like 30-ish days at this point. So we so appreciate your support. If you haven't purchased your copy, it's $22. On Amazon, it's even less. At Barnes & Noble, it's like 20 bucks. At an independent bookstore, it's like $22. I've packed every single thing I know about money in a one all-you-can-eat guide. So we so appreciate your support of the book. If you have been on TikTok anytime in the last year or Instagram, you have seen her, you've loved her, and you've probably

related to her sketches a little too much. Today's guest is my friend and yours, Corporate Natalie. I met Natalie randomly. We were internet friends. We were exchanging messages back and forth. We have mutual friends, including previous guests of the pod, Victoria Garrick, Ella Halikas. We have mutual friends, including previous guests to the pod, Victoria Garrick, Ella Halikas. And it was so funny. I was at an influencer event this past summer in New York, and I knew nobody there. And it was kind of awkward because it was a fashion event. And I am not a fashion person.

Am I fashionable? I like to think so. But am I a fashion influencer? Fuck no, definitely not. And I was standing there trying to mingle, trying to make friends. And in walks Natalie, like the beautiful angel she is. And I literally yelled across the room, I didn't know you were going to be here. And I was so excited. And like we spent the whole night chatting and she's just fantastic. After experiencing the utter bleakness of 2020s work

from home life, Natalie couldn't help but take to TikTok to poke fun at the current state of corporate America. Almost half a million Instagram followers and another half a million TikTok followers later, she's now able to make people around the world laugh and bond over their shared hilarity of the new normal nuances. We're so excited to invite Natalie to join us for an episode to talk about how she has navigated going viral in TikTok while also still maintaining a career in corporate America and what she's learned along the way. I'm a huge fan of the way she runs her platform and we got into some fun subjects like how to know when it's time to take your passion full-time, how to balance a side hustle with a full-time job, learning how to price herself and monetize her account, the joys and frustrations of content creation, and so much more. So let's go ahead and get into it.

So you and I have been internet friends for a while. And then I was invited to a lovely dinner with Sofi and Rebecca Minkoff. They did a little collab dinner. And I knew nobody at that dinner. And it was a very like influencer hoity-toity event. And then I turn and I see you walking in the room and I'm like I don't know if I've ever been more excited to see anybody in my entire life I was like oh my god a friend I was so excited so first of all I dm'd you countless times being like what are you wearing what are we doing like let's align don't accept dms so perfect good to know I do now because we both, it was my personal account.

I think we didn't follow each other. It was a whole thing. It was, I am, my boundaries and DMs are hard. No, no, no. No, because I'm a fan and I followed you, of course. The funniest part of this event is Rebecca Minkoff brings her like fleet of these gorgeous like revolve models. And then Tori and I are just like, what are we doing here? We're with sofi just

like that's literally that's literally how i felt like they were you know so hot and then they would turn to me and be like oh so like what what do you do and i'm like i'm a finance expert and then they're like oh that's interesting and i're like can you pass the linguine they're like no one's eating we had like 12 glasses of wine everyone's sober we're like what's going on can I have more pasta where's the more pasta button no but then they look me up on Instagram and they're like oh you're financed but you have 660,000 Instagram followers and I'm like yeah I don't know how we did it either it's very funny they're like what do you i mean these are these are gorgeous intelligent women of course like they're not there's nothing wrong with it

but like a brand like sofi who we both work with they're like so how do you work with that how do you promote them i'm like well it's a it's a bank it's an old finance app like okay i don't really we're like here at like a very fashion we're here at a fashion dinner as guests of SoFi and we're the two guests and then everybody else's Rebecca Minkoff entourage who are beautiful and yeah talented and smart but also like oh boy little fish out of water so yeah I was like we dressed completely incorrectly for this like what's going on no one told me no one I didn't get the memo yeah I showed up in a seven dollar I looked hot but I showed up in a seven dollar banana republic outlet dress with adidas I was yeah fanny pack just like it's so great yeah I love it who gives a crap and that's me that's how I'm gonna roll up to these events

like stop inviting me I love it okay but I to chat about, obviously you and I met through TikTok and I want to give the audience a background on you. What was your life like? What was your background before you started building your account on TikTok? Yeah. So before TikTok, I was working just an extremely corporate job. I was in consulting. I always saw myself as climbing the corporate ladder. I thought having a job at a big four company was like the coolest personality trait ever. I wanted to be partner. Like I was, I've always been driven type A kind of person. I've also always had this humor side to me. I love telling jokes at the dinner table. Like that's not ununique to my, the channel that you see there. But I went on TikTok, posted a couple

of videos completely as a joke, nothing related related to corporate humor no intention of being like I'm gonna be an influencer at all I sent it to my friends like as a joke I'm like I'm gonna be famous just like you know I'll sign autographs now if you want completely like video has zero views I keep kind of posting and then one blows up and here we are today with like 800,000 followers it's insane isn't that wild because you and I started around the same time how soon did you realize you were like oh I could monetize this or this could be a legitimate real thing as opposed to I'm just here for fun well it was crazy to me I didn't see this as like a money-making thing I saw this as like oh this is crazy I could go viral and get views and whatever this is kind of fun but when you're pretty early the process, I feel like you start getting reached out to by brands wanting to work

with you, wanting to collab. I think I had like 10,000 followers on TikTok and I was getting just inbound emails, constantly gifting stuff. Like just, it was crazy to me that brands wanted to send me free stuff. That was just such a novel concept. And then, you know, they start offering to pay you very, very little, of course, to post a large quantity of videos. And I being the naive person I am knowing nothing about this world was like, Twisted Tea wants to give me $500 to post an ad for them. Like, absolutely. I reposted it to my Instagram, like for free, because I was so proud of it. Like, I just didn't know anything. And I was just, yeah, so it started very quick. And you learn very fast. And I was just, yeah. So it started very quick and you learn very fast. And I think

I just approached, I started approaching it like a job and like a business from the start. And I just realized, okay, this is, you know, this is something that could, this can be something, this can be a side hustle. This doesn't have to be just a creative outlet. So it grew pretty fast. The majority of my questions are around like how we monetize TikTok. What is it like, you know, the like influencer money side of it. But obviously, the majority of your content is and the reason you've gone viral and the reason you're famous for it is like this very like making fun of corporate culture, job interview, all of these kind of things. Do you have career advice for people? And if so,

like, what are your like three tips for someone trying to land their first job or trying to pivot or trying to get a raise? Like what, what for you are your, your corporate tips? Totally. Well, first of all, I think it's, you know, it's always important to give the disclaimer of I'm 25 years old I've been working in corporate America for three years so like people come to me for career advice I'm like I have no like I am not some wise person able to you know been in this for years but I do think when I started my career and out of college and every sort of corporate training trains you to like on social media best practices like don't be anything, don't go to a protest and wear our company shirt, like very just, you know, you're

scared to do anything wrong or misstep on social media. And now I have this completely different outlook that building your personal brand and growing on social media, if it's, you know, appropriate, clean, like stuff you're proud of that your grandma would see, I always say, like that can do nothing but help you. That's, I mean, companies are now looking at that in such a positive light and being like, you make video content, you're funny, you can use humor at work, like that's amazing. And so my tip is just, if it's something you're proud of and confident of, and you want to put content out there or take a risk or try photography or anything creative, that's kind of outside of your nine to five and what you'd be doing in your

day job like do it and show it and show those sides of you and I think it's something to be proud of and companies look at that and that's a total differentiator now well and your tiktok helped land you a promotion right isn't that what happened tell me about that it's crazy so like I said I I mean, I started with this holding this kind of shame around it. I didn't want my company to find out like I, I still have in my bio, like all content is fictional. Like I just, you know, I don't want people to think I'm making fun of them, which, you know, is for good reason. Cause there are some companies that freak out about that shit. Like I, I have my own stories of that, of as my company started gaining success on the side,

my nine to five felt worse and worse about that. So yeah, I totally understand the impulse. Totally, totally. And it's especially when you're making fun of, I mean, you're making fun of something. People get sensitive and you never want to. It's never about anyone. Of course, I can make a joke literally any anyone on the street like I don't care like I'm I'm very able to turn anything to a joke but it's it is sensitive so I think yeah just using it and I I people at my work started finding out and then it just kind of spiraled and it became you know people slacking me this is so cool oh my gosh and then what happened was the CEO of my company, it's like it was 12,000 person company put time on my calendar. I was like, okay, so I'm getting fired. This was amazing. It was really nice knowing you guys. I am going to pack up my

stuff and go. And I answered the call was around Christmas time. And I answered the call and he was like, we need to get you into marketing. Like, this is so cool what you've done. Let's get you in marketing. We want you to tell our story. And so I got this giant. Which fantastic impulse by the CEO, because that's how you know, like, okay, you got a good one, or at least you got one who has good instincts. Because the amount of people, again, in my own personal career, or the amount of people, again, in my own personal career or the amount of people I've counseled who had leaders or CEOs who saw it as a threat rather than the best asset. So props

to that person. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think I work in tech and I think the tech community is very more forward-leaning and excited about this. And I think they're, like you said before, there are companies that would hate this. So it is, I do feel very, you know, thankful that they viewed it in a positive way. And I got a giant promotion at age 24 to a senior manager role that I wouldn't have gotten for like six or seven years. So it was crazy. I mean, it was just, it's, I'm still just, I'm shocked every day when I, these opportunities come. And I mean, we even talked about the events and the stuff that comes with the influencer side. And it's just it's crazy. So very, very thankful. When you took something you were good at, you know, leveraged it weirdly for a promotion, even though it wasn't directly related to the work you were doing at your nine

to five. And you had somebody who saw that as an asset, which it was 100%. Like that's 100% what it was. Yeah, that's smart. I love it. Okay, you have a friendship with Rod, who is fantastic. If y'all don't know Rod, you're not on TikTok. Like if you don't know, you're not on TikTok. You've mentioned that you bounce ideas and numbers off of each other when you are, you know, trying each other when you are trying to grow, when you're figuring out what your business looks like. Do you feel like this is factored into sustaining your success, negotiating your worth, having these conversations with other creators? Absolutely. So Rod and Victoria Garrick, who we were talking about earlier, were two people

who were immensely helpful in just, what are we doing here? What should we charge? I have no idea. Vic's been an influencer since college. So she was very helpful and, you know, charge this rate, try this out for sure. Rod was sort of in my niche. So we had that alignment of being like, we had a similar amount of followers and we're kind of doing the same content. We had a lot of B2B companies reach out to us as these kind of this new wave of corporate influencers, which was interesting. And I think they didn't know their budgets. We didn't know what to charge. And so it was just kind of this, how do we push the limits and do that? But yes, I'm immensely thankful to both of them for just being open about it. Because I think, I mean, you and I even talked about rates, like the first night we met in

person. I just think this world is, it's more like, let's help each other and lift each other up. Unless like in corporate America, you would never ask someone what their salary is. Like, that's just so inappropriate and you don't do that. But I think weirdly with creators and stuff, we're all kind of still figuring it out together. And there's more that at least the people I've interacted with, there's that openness of sure. Like I'll share a ballpark. I'll share, I share the exact numbers. I don't care. I try to empower all creators to charge more.

And that's part of what I do now with the consulting I do with creators is let's get your media kit and, you know, tell your story and push the boundaries and charge more because companies don't know. There's no standardization of you have X followers. You should get X dollars. It's like, what's the story you're telling and what can you do for us, you know, that we can't do in-house or with an ad agency. There is so much there that you just talked about. I mean, with our work, we are trying to make conversations in a corporate environment about salary more

normalized but i think the biggest difference right is that there is there is like aggregate salary data right like or you can go on to you know hopefully job descriptions now will tell you the range right so you can go and look at that you can go and look at glass door there's a couple companies that are startups that are doing this for influencers but like no one's really gone mainstream in terms of like the glass door for influencers and so it's such a new industry and it's so veiled and to your point like some people are still playing by the like you know what is it like hundred dollar per thousand follower thing i don't even remember ten dollars thing? I don't even remember $10 per 1000. I

don't even remember the bullshit. But like, it's so new, and it still seems so veiled. And I have also become one of the people who my TikTok DMs are full of brand new creators who are like, I have 3 million followers, this brand offered me 500 bucks, should I take it? And I'm like, no, no. But unless we're talking about it, people don't know any better. I agree. I agree. And I think it is, you know, it's tough because you make these large sums of money for seemingly like low effort things like making a video. But I do think it's important to understand, one, there's a lot of effort that goes into making a video. I think it seems way easier than it looks.

Like I always say being a creator is incredibly challenging. So there is that, but also it's like having a following and having this audience of hundreds of thousands of people who trust you and want to hear what you have to say. I mean, that's powerful. And telling that story and to brands and being like, this is my rate. If you want to tap into these 800,000 people across TikTok and Instagram who are corporate millennials with buying power, be my guest. And if not, don't worry at all. Like the other brand will. So I think just

having that confidence is super important. Yeah. I always tell influencers or content creators that you're a one person marketing agency, right? Or if you have a team behind you, you're actually like basically as many marketing agency where, yeah, it's not just the 60 second video you've produced. It's the concept that you've come up with. It's the execution of that concept. It's the engagement in the comments afterwards. It's the, you know, the correspondence over email back and forth with a brand. It's six different reshoots. It's a lot more that goes into that 60-second video than a lot of people think. Totally. And I mean, you always talk about confidence through everything and finances and life and everything. I think you have to put a value on yourself. How much are you worth? How much is your voice your brain like you're you're providing a creative concept

for this company that they would have never thought of and I think with like I think with my ads I started from a very early state of being like I'm not going to hold up the sugar bear hair gummies and be like guys try this out I'm going to like integrate it organically try to make it funny make it more of a skit like sort of a new type of marketing, which I've been exploring. And I think it's interesting. What was it? Your meat stick video cracked me up. Oh, my God. Yeah. Why not just normalize like eating a meat stick in the office? You're like under a desk and you're like, I'm meeting my meat stick. Yeah. The brand's like, this is going to get flagged, but OK.

going to get flagged, but okay. Do you feel like trying to normalize these conversations, like are creators comfortable talking about pay? You kind of mentioned, I think it's more comfortable than like a corporate environment of just like dishing on salary info. But do you feel like generally people are more comfortable? You know, I think so. I do think it's with those like mutuals as we as we call it in this crazy social media world. But the people you follow and you become this kind of internet friends with, you're more open about it. I do think you mentioned some of these apps and I've seen them that are trying to bring kind of the glass door to creators. I think I am a little hesitant to just like throw my rates on there and have it tied and have everyone know because I think there is sort of, there's price discrimination 100%.

I mean, we can talk about this. If a huge brand comes to you, like, yeah, I'm going to try to charge a little bit more. I know you have the budget. I'm looking at your financials. I'm figuring it out. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to pause you right there because I think a lot of people don't understand this. Like if a, uh, you know, women's nonprofit comes and asks me to speak, I am charging a very different rate than if Amazon asked me to come and speak, which ironically, Amazon, those companies are typically the ones who actually don't have budgets or claim that they don't have budget. Chipotle, Starbucks, you'd be shocked. They're like, we can't pay you.

It's so crazy. Wild. And if you were a brand listening, granted, you're getting away with it and you're getting away with it because, oh God, I'm like, oh, I get so angry about this. Because what happens is influencers get reached out to by Sephora. I'm naming brands. I don't know if they actually do this, but these like big, big, big brands, right? And they come to you and they go, well, we don't have budget to pay you or we'll pay you in free product. And the majority of people still

take those deals because they want that brand name on their portfolio, right? They want to be able to say, I've worked with this huge brand. Brands know this, so they don't pay you, right? Or they know they can get away with paying you less. So I get it from an influencer standpoint because you feel like you're caught between a rock and a hard place where you're like, well, I either get a little bit of money and I get a lot of clout or I turn down the opportunity. But if you take the opportunity, well, suddenly you're not just undercutting yourself. You're making it so much harder for every single other person who's a content creator to also charge for what we're worth. Because then if I go to a Starbucks or

a Chipotle and I'm like, hey, I want, let's say 12K, 15K for a video, they're going to be like, well, this other person's going to do it for free. Totally. And they can do that. No, and they can do that. And I think, you know, I don't want to say, you know, we're price discriminating and whatever, but it is just like, you do your research as a creator of, you know, if there's super great brand alignment and it's so easy and it's, I could work, I could work Starbucks and I work Starbucks into every video just because I do that. You know, if like, if Zoom reached out to me, I'd be like, I'll probably do that for free because I'm probably already going to say the word Zoom in the sky, you know? So it's like, you're sensing the brand alignment. You do that. I also think, I mean,

now that we're just talking about money, let's just dive right in. But there are ways to get paid in potentially equity, or do you really believe in this company, their early stage, you get a piece of it, and then you don't even have to say it's an ad because you're a part owner. And there are just like ways to work around, you can make it work that and I think creators are willing to make it work. Like you mentioned a woman's nonprofit that's so aligned with you and what you're doing and you know, everything. So it's like, and I know you're not going to have a huge budget. I know that. So I'm going to be more likely to accept that opportunity if it works with my schedule and that sort of thing versus a company that is a

billion dollar corporation and you have the fucking audacity to be like oh you don't have influencer budgets I'm like then that's on you you shouldn't be reaching out if you don't have the budget to do this right I wouldn't be like yeah hey I'm gonna hire a marketing manager oh what's the pay well I can't pay you yeah do you do your job for free no right i'm not doing my job for free thank you exposure doesn't pay the bills baby it does not pay the bills and i i love what you said too yeah is it equity like you know the classic beyonce example beyonce gets asked to uh perform at uber they say i'm trying to remember the dollar amount it was like 250 500 000 will pay you and she was like no you're gonna pay me in equity. Now, there's a risk there

because potentially that equity is worth nothing, right? Or you're fucking Beyonce and you have now I think it's like multi million dollars worth of equity because she asked for equity instead. And companies are some companies are more likely to actually pay you in equity because that's what they do have rather than, you know, a huge marketing budget. Absolutely. I know. It's crazy. And like the one woman marketing agency, like you're saying, I mean, you can offer your advice, your strategic insights, your ideas on some of the other campaigns they're doing and become sort of that advisor with a company that you believe in. And that is just that's incredible. You get 10 of those in your portfolio, like one takes off, great, you're set, you know? So it's cool to see. So you mentioned equity, any other like ways

you're thinking about getting compensated besides just a check? I mean, truthfully, no, I want either, you know, to be paid or in some capacity. I mean, I think sometimes there's exposure plays and they'll be like, well, we post you on our channels. I kind of don't, I don't find that as helpful because you just never know. Normally companies, organic social channels aren't like completely viral unless you're Duolingo. But I think it's important to value your time and not do things for free. If, you know, of course you do things that align with you that you're happy about for free, but it is a business and we're all working hard here. And I just think that's important to know your worth and do that. Do you have any tips? Do you take other forms of compensation? Well, I mean, the compensation might be structured differently. You and actually,

again, we literally had just met and talked about this at the bar after the event. There's so many different ways you can structure a deal, right? There's like flat fee deals where it's like, okay, yeah, for this one video, we'll pay you X amount. Then there's like packages, we'll pay you for three videos or we'll pay you for an Instagram plus a video plus maybe like a podcast ad or something like that, right? So there's packages. And then there's like commission slash affiliates. Now, I would say if you are a content creator and you're listening to this, the vast majority of affiliate deals are not actually helpful. Like truly, they're not going to be lucrative for you because it forces you. It's a pay to play thing, right?

You are only being compensated for the traffic that you drive. However, we have a couple affiliate deals on the Her First 100K side that have paid literally millions of dollars versus what would have been like $12,000 here, $15,000 here for a one-off video or two. So you have to analyze how you want to run your business, the structure of it. Does it make sense? You know, there's just different ways of structuring a deal, you know, for compensation. There's also the potential where, you know, if the brand does have a large following, there's also a potential, right, where you're doing like a literally like co-branded Instagram collab post, right, where it's like it's going on both of your accounts. Now, they're going to act like

that's a lot more valuable than it actually is. And you have to determine if it is valuable. But if it is, that's potentially a great play, right? You get to be in front, especially if the brand alignment is so good, right? That might draw a bunch of followers or a bunch of conversions to you. Yeah, there's just ways to get creative with it. Yeah. And I think understanding who you are as a creator, I think Tori and I talked about this again, the first night we met, but for your following, that makes so much sense. And we talked about this. If I did that, it wouldn't work. Yeah. But like the actual, you know, financial advice, whatever. And I don't have a following like that. My, my videos are very just general brand awareness. You want

corporate Natalie's affiliation with your brand. I'll do a funny video about it. Like, boom, we're done. I would prefer a flat fee. So it's just, you know, understanding what works for you and your following is so important. Yeah. And I think you and I not only have different business structures, but even the way we show up on TikTok is different. I would imagine, right, that you have a lot more engagement or likes with your video, but maybe less people actually convert to following you. We get less likes and views, but we have more of that to your point, like a dedicated following. So I think that's different, right? For me, if I continually tell you, hey, open up a high yield savings account, you're going to be more likely to do it. As opposed to for you, you might only get one chance to talk to somebody online,

right? Or there's one chance for them to see your video. So then it makes more sense from the way the business is running, the way the business is structured, to just be like, yep, I'm going to do a shout out, I'm going to do a one or two video thing with you. That makes more sense than trying to like, basically get somebody to literally do something it's a brand awareness play as opposed to a conversion play okay can you walk us through how you negotiate with brands what you learned any pitfalls you were talking about like that first twisted tea partnership and what you learned from it like how do you walk through working with brands, negotiating with brands, and what have you learned in the process? Yes. So I do everything on my own. I'm not managed. I don't have an agent.

I really see a deal from the inception to the end, invoicing and sending analytics. And I do it all. And I have a very small team hoping to grow, but who helps me kind of with the admin side of those deals. But I really, and I've said this before, it's all about telling your story. I've built a very comprehensive media kit that tells, you know, shows my following, shows my engagement, talks about that audience that I think is so important of my people, like my audiences has buying power. They're not 12 year olds on TikTok. They're 35 year old people who are interested in what I have to say, want to buy it, want to, you know, make that, make that play. So I think telling that story is important. I think for me, it helps me

charge more, more rate, like higher rates, which I'm thankful for. So I send a media kit, I send individualized rates should they want them because my media kit just includes like bundled packages. individualized rates should they want them because my media kit just includes like bundled packages it just from there like normally brands agree which is just crazy because I still am baffled that you can charge these rates but sometimes there's that negotiation bit of okay they want to boost the video they want exclusivity whatever how do we kind of rate that out and make sure it makes sense but I'm going to pause you right there and ask you to break that down to someone who isn't a content creator. What is everything that goes into a deal besides just I'm going to post a 60 second video on TikTok? Oh my gosh. Yeah. People think it's so easy. Yeah. So I have like a, we all have a menu of things that could potentially be charged for. Exclusivity means you can't promote similar

brands in a certain period of time. Whitelisting slash boosting means they're going to basically get your video out into the For You page and get more views, which I think... They're going to put sponsored money behind it, right? They're going to... It's basically going to become like they're going to put ad dollars on it. Yeah. Yes, which I think sometimes people view as super positive. Like, yeah, of course, I want my ads to have more views. But if you're allowing companies to put your face out there as a viewer, you get annoyed if I could lose followers because they're seeing my face countless times with these sponsorships. And that actually hurts your brand.

So it's important to put a price on that. Organic usage. Are they able to repost it on their channels? There's a cost of that. Are they going to own this in perpetuity? You have to review the contracts. Absolutely not. When I get a facelift at 50, I don't want them using the footage from 25 years ago.

Absolutely not. So it's just all these things that go into it and all these factors where you really have to, it's like a calculator of, okay, the X months, X usage, whatever. Yep. Link in bio. Do you have a link in bio does it have to be that specific link and without any other links or can it go on something like a link tree for how long is it there oh is it a pinned post okay well for how long is it a pinned post

uh you know all of the is it re-shared on stories like all of these things come with additional costs yeah do they want to share it. Do they want to share it globally? Do they want to share it on their LinkedIn? Yeah. It's like you're looking at all of this and it's crazy how quick I learned. And I think just as a creator, you have to learn. Normally you get a team and a lawyer and you're actually smart about it. I've just become kind of my own in-house lawyer, which is probably a horrible thing

to do, but I'm reviewing all these contracts and I'm looking for this and I'm, you know, so it's just, it's a lot. And so that, that negotiation, that contract review, making sure you're fully aligned, making sure the payment terms make sense, everything. Then there's the concepting, scripting, you know, making sure we're aligned on the direction because you don't want to, like you said, reshoot 16,000 times. Like it's just, I don't have time for that. So let's align on where we're going.

Then you film, you edit, you send. They of course want edits, reshoots. You reshoot, you send back, you provide a caption. They want all these, you know, BS text overlays, like link in bio for more. Okay, no one cares, but sure, I'll add it. And then you post it. You send them an ad boosting code.

You send analytics. You're engaging with the content because you want to make sure that you're responding to comments, you're engaging with the content, because you want to make sure that you're responding to comments and you're filtering comments that are potentially negative about the brand. And then you, you know, you hopefully do it all over again, repitch it, and hope you sign for another video. So it's just it all. And there's so much in between. I mean, invoicing, send your W nine, but make sure your bank accounts linked, like, there's so much on the back end, too. That's just, it's, it is not just much on the back end too. It is not just

film one video and post it. It is so much more. So yeah. And a lot of these, if you're an entrepreneur or a content creator, this is going to sound very familiar, but just like trying to get paid by a corporation at a nine to five job, that's going to be a lot easier typically because you have payroll and you know you're going to get paid on a certain date. The amount of like chasing down we have to do in order to get paid. And now we work with an agency and the amount of chasing down the agency has to do, but then we have to chase down the agency as well to make sure that they're chasing down the brand. And then you also have typically what they call like net 30, net 45, net 60 day terms. And that means from like the day you either sign the contract or like the day the

content's posted, they have 30 days. If it's a net 30, they have 45 days or sometimes there's some deals we have that are net 75, which means that we don't see payment until 75 days. That's a full two and a half months after the content went out. And I have to pay my people. I have to pay myself. I have to keep the lights on. So that's the other part of it, too, that can also typically be negotiated.

But it's not like you post the video and then the next day you get paid. It very, very rarely happens that way. Absolutely. Yeah. And the fact that you would be shocked the huge name companies that we are as individual creators chasing down and asking to be paid for the work that we've done. I mean, it's just it's insane how this all gets lost in translation with a contract just blowing through the payment terms.

I'm like, I'm sorry. I'm chasing down a company for a video I did in 2021. I'm like, I'm sorry. Where's that? What's going on? And there's all the government regulation around all of this too, because the brand has their own requirements. But we also have FTC guidelines about where the hashtag ad needs to go and how we disclose whether it's an ad or an affiliate deal or like there's some especially for finance and you know this now working with financial companies we have to most of the content has to go through compliance which is a whole other thing like compliance oh it like sometimes takes months and so it's like all of this that you, I didn't know a couple of years ago, but again, I'm being

paid for the knowledge of, I have to make sure to disclose this properly. And I know that compliance is going to have these four problems or issues if I say this. So I'm going to try to avoid that. There's all of that in addition that you have to think about of, yeah, disclosing it correctly. And I think you and I are just people in general who are, you know, super driven, super hardworking, look into the details of these things. I mean, it scares me to think of a younger creator who has no idea what to look out for in contract reviews and isn't checking if they're getting paid, doesn't know how to track that down. Like, I think that's, it's scary to me that people get taken advantage of in that way. And so

it's just important to stay vigilant and check these things and be super involved in the process. I know even with your agencies, like when you're outsourcing it, you just want to make sure that's all going as planned because I trust no one. So it's important. I think one of the questions that I had when I was navigating my career and that I think a lot of people who are creative people who have side projects is like, we were talking about this earlier, like, do you disclose it? Is it something that you talk about as like a benefit to employers? And I know right now you're

kind of doing the job hunt or figuring out what's out there. So what are these conversations looking like where you're like, yeah, I'm looking for a job. And also I have this other thing that, again, could be an asset to you. When are you disclosing that? Are you disclosing that? What does that look like for you? I often think about what my life would be if Corporate Natalie wasn't so tied to my face and so public, if it was like a company I was starting that I was running in the background. I think right now it's just too big to ignore. I mean, it's, I get recognized when I go to the bar, like if I'm doing an interview, I mean, not, not that everyone knows me, who's everyone, but it's going to come up at some point. And it's, like I said, it's something I'm proud of

now. And I think the interview process for me right now is so different than what it would have been if I was just in my traditional career path. It's actually, you know, are you proud of, do you think Corporate Natalie is an asset that you would find interesting and that could help with your company that you'd be excited to collaborate and hear my advice as a creator and really work together in that way and have the flexibility to understand that, you know, I give so much time to this that like, what what could our sort of employment model look like that maybe incorporates me doing that and also helping in kind of an advising capacity or something. So right now, the interview process for me is more so just like, how can I tailor some experience at some company that I believe in into

what I want, I think, having a following and having that brand power and presence is like, it allows you to do this, which is crazy to me. I mean, most jobs, it's like, I'm not looking at a job description and seeing if I can fit into that. I'm trying to build a job description and say, do you want me for this? You know, it's, it's very, it's crazy, but it's exciting. And it's like, how can I, I think I'm so confident in what I have to offer that I know there are brands out there. I mean, every company I work with, we hang up the phone when the brand deals over and they're like, if you ever want to come on full time, like we love you, like the agencies, the brands, you know, like everyone's so thinks it's so cool and would love to have the knowledge that a creator has in-house. So I just think understanding that is powerful. Well, and regardless of your career, if you're a creator or not, what you said was so powerful and I really want people to hear it of like, I know what I have is valuable. I know what I bring to the table. And if something out there doesn't work, if there's something out there that isn't like, if I'm looking for something and it's not fitting, I will create my own opportunity.

Because I have all of these people who are ready to hire me and who see what I have to do is valuable. And you're coming from a place rather than scarcity, you're coming from a place of abundance of saying, I know what I have to offer is powerful and I am not going to take something that is less or doesn't work with what I want to do. If I have to, I'll create it myself. And that's so powerful. I agree. And I mean, that's very unique to me and sort of where I'm at in life. I think I'm a very rational and realistic person. I think if you're fresh out of college and you're looking for a job, you can't be doing this like, I'll build the role for myself. I'm sorry, you don't have any tangible skills at that point. So you do have to, there is give and take. But I think for me right now, I'm in a place that it's like I've done something rather unique that I can use as a positive. How much do you,

because I wonder this myself myself how much of it do you feel like right place right time where you and i just got in like in and things were blown up and it was everybody was bored at in quarantine like how much do you think is luck versus strategy i think a lot of it is luck and i'm thankful every single day that this happened i think the the luck side of it for me is that when I got in the, the corporate influencer was not a thing. I think Rod and I, like I said, we're sort of the first movers in that truly. And like making fun of corporate America just became so easy with work from home that we kind of slipped in and, and we just exploited it. And I think that allowed companies like one of my brand

partners is Dell who would probably never do influencer marketing before seeing like a rod or a meet. We both did a Dell collab together and it made perfect sense and it was an awesome video. And so I think that part of it was luck. I think the strategy is sticking to it now, you know, two and a half years later, working every single day, getting up, thinking of new ideas, thinking of how to expand the brand. I mean, you've built an unbelievable business. It's like, how do you turn this one avenue of TikTok and Instagram and paid partnerships into a business and do speaking and podcasting? And how can you expand it? And you and I talk about this a lot, but how can you pull yourself out of it? Because there's so much pressure as just the face of it and the one person. It's like, I want Corporate Natalie to exist if I died.

How do we keep that going? That's very morbid, but how can this be a business that doesn't require my input, my face every single day with every single decision? So that's where I'm at now with looking to expand. I mean, this is me asking you for advice because I'm trying to figure it out. What have you found is working? Because I'm finding it really difficult. You find a face that you trust, you find a name that you trust. And that's part of why I think both of our brands are successful, right? It's like people are tied to who we are as people. And then if we try to bring other people in or we try to do, like literally,

we know that social media, your posts are less likely to perform well if you don't have a face in them and like that's so hard it's like the pace of all of it is yeah really difficult i don't know what's working for you well you know the corporate natalie stuff is very i'm still figuring it out it's it's too it's too hard to pull myself out of it right now. And I'm totally fine with doing it. I'm not completely fatigued and posting videos and doing pay partnerships and stuff. But I am starting a business with my roommate. That's, I think I told you about this virtual assistant company for influencers. And sort of pairing, basically training people who want to be, make a side hustle and work a few hours a week, training them on the influencer world and

making them understand, like, here's how a brand deal works. Here's how like podcast appearances work so that they're trained and ready to go and hit the ground running with an influencer who doesn't have to spend their precious time like being like, yeah, this is a brand deal, you know, and that was I trained my assistant, like, here's the language, here are templates, like use this if a brand reaches out to gift, whatever. So that's something I'm excited about. That's something that yes, the upfront networking with the influencers who trust me, or of course, you know, because I am who I am. But that's something that I'm building, and I'm excited and can totally sustain without me. Once we train them, and my, you know, co founder is super, just wildly intelligent and fiercely dedicated to it as well. So it's exciting to

build something together. Well, that's the whole thing. That's entrepreneurship, right? As you see an issue and then you work to solve it. And for you as a creator, it was like, I imagine, wow, I really need somebody to support me in doing this. And then you're talking to other creators and creators are going, wow, I'm spending a lot of my time managing my email inbox, managing my DMs, coordinating with brands. And you're like, wow, what if there a lot of my time managing my email inbox, managing my DMs, coordinating with brands. And you're like, wow, what if there was a better way? Right. And it sounds like you're creating that. Totally. And you and I talk about this. It's like, what is for taking our face out of it? You know, what are the core competencies that you

absolutely need me for? Like, OK, I need to be in the video. Sure, I'll do it. Do I have to edit it? Do I have to post it? Do I have to be in these negotiation talks? No, like, take me out of it. Do I have to be commenting? Do I have to be responding to comments? Do I have to be coordinating my own calendar? No, I have someone in my DMs. No, please, someone tell me what to do. Tell me where to go. Tell me what to show up to this podcast. Thank you. I need handholding. Two people who look like me can't put on a trench coat and go speak for me. I need handholding.

Two people who look like me can't put on a trench coat and go speak for me. I have to do that, right? Versus like, I, yeah, like Kristen, our lovely podcast producer has coordinating this interview and provided lovely questions for me to ask. And I go in and add some if I want. Otherwise, I show up to this interview and I do this with you, right? And like, that's, I think, especially for creators who are predominantly women or just women in general who are running a business, I think there is a badge of honor that we all feel like we need, which is like, oh, I do this all myself. And like, why would I give any of this away? But the smartest decision you can make as a business owner is to delegate the first moment you can and to find really good people who you trust to be able to delegate to. 100%. And the older I get, the older I get,

I'm 25. I view my life in a very... I'm nearing the end. The older I get, and the more... Because I was so dedicated and I would spend so much time on this and working full time and doing it. It's like I'm just exhausted and I'm just valuing my time more and more. Like I'm a better person and I'm a better creator when I'm, when I take a night off and go have a drink with my friends. Like there's no need for me to be constantly working. And so yeah, finding the right people and trusting them and really empowering them to step up and do this is so important. Yeah. What do you wish more people knew about being a creator? Well, I think it is incredibly hard work. I, I feel, I still feel this sort of shame when I say, oh, I'm a a content creator and I don't know why

I think it's something like I'm so proud of it but I feel like or TikTok specifically like even so I was on the Today Show and the day before because my mom watches it every day the day before they were like introducing my segment they were like oh and tomorrow we're having you know what to finance TikTok star on to talk about you know money and apparently Savannah Guffrey was like yeah because I get my financial advice from TikTok oh my god oh my god and you're not even I mean like you have so many other like streams and like pillars of things you do like I'm purely yeah like please but then weirdly too I do the same thing where I'm like no I should be proud

of it why is TikTok less legitimate but then I also play the like yeah it does like I do have all of these other things cite me by all of these other things that I deem more legitimate so it is that kind of like it's like weirdly I'm so proud of it and also I'm like no I need you to take me seriously and for whatever reason when I say TikTok you're like no I'm like embarrassed so I don't know I need to one I need to just get over that and just be proud of it. Because I know deep down that like, what I've done is incredible. But I think just like normalizing that it's extremely hard work and that it is a business. Like I said, I mean, it's just, it's so not as easy as it looks. And it is grueling. And it's also the emotional aspect of it of, I don't want to be called names and called,

you know, ugly and fat and hear these horrible things about my voice and my appearance. Like, I have to deal with that every single day. And like, you know, when you have a performance review twice a year with your boss and you have to receive feedback, I receive unsolicited feedback every single day with every single thing I post. Like, that's grueling and that's emotional. And also, hopefully your boss is not telling you, that's grueling and that's emotional and also hopefully your boss is not telling you hey you're ugly and i hope you go die right it's like hey i feel like you're doing this well and this should be improved right like nowhere else are you getting feedback i mean if you're if yeah you're probably getting out on the street if you're a fat person just walking in everyday life

you're getting shit on all the time but i feel like anybody who's on the internet is like getting constant shit all the time totally yeah so that's just i wish people better understood that it's grueling emotionally time-wise all of that and also just that like you should do it for yourself i want everyone to be a creator and put their stuff out there if they're confident enough to do it i I mean, the opportunities are endless when you have a following, you've built this and you get the trust of so many people. I mean, it's just, I mean, the SoFi event we went to, like, that's so cool. We were at a table with Rebecca Minkoff and the CMO of SoFi. I mean, it's just these, these situations that I would never be in if I hadn't taken a chance and put my stuff out there and failed a bunch of times and then now understood how to, you know, hit it big, get those views. And all the people I think, I think you uniquely have had a lot of

pushback, but I have gotten pushback. Anybody who's ever posted a sponsored post on any social media platform has gotten pushback of like, oh, why are you taking sponsored content? That's all I see from you now. You're selling out. What is your response to those people? sponsored content that's all I see from you now you're selling out like what is your response to those people um do you work for free sorry when you go to your job every day do you do it for free I'm confused like I you know it's this is how you make money this is a business right like I you don't do anything for free so you just want me to literally just make jokes constantly and make you laugh and bring joy to your life just just just every day for no reason. No. And it's not like, I love doing that. And I'm excited. I'm excited to do that. But like, and I think there is a community of people that are so like,

get that bad girl. Like, you know, we're proud of you. Yes. But there are always those people that are going to question it. It's like, you don't want to watch the ad. Don't watch the ad. I don't care at all. There's thousands of other videos that will suit your fancy. So I just, I know that sounds really harsh, but I just hate when people aren't supportive of creators doing brand deals because it's just, that's how creators make their money. And there are people who do this full time and that's their entire livelihood. One brand deal could change their life and pay their rent. So let them do that. Yep. Couldn't agree more. Any advice for someone who is fresh out of

college looking for their first job? How do you navigate that? I think I mentioned before, but just build your personal brand as early as possible. You don't need to necessarily post on social media, but what about you is uniquely you and what can you bring to an interview that's going to excite people more so than just what you can offer tangibly and you have, you know, Excel experience, like, cool. What else do you bring to the table? We're so, I feel like with work from home, so eager for connection and like really that team element of how do we all work together? Do we like each other? Like, how are you a person that's going to be interesting and dynamic?

And I think just be proud of those things. I would always try to hide the humor side. I would never tell a joke in an interview. And I think, you know, I would not advise telling a joke in an interview unless you really, really think it's going to land. But just, you know, show it. Like, take a risk. I don't know. There's no interview I join right now that I'm not totally just, like, messing around. Like, I don't know. I feel like for you, every interview is like, ooh, a new audience to try material on. Literally every interaction I have in my life. I'm like, how do I make you laugh? It's so exhausting. It's exhausting. Where can people find you? At Corporate Natalie on TikTok and Instagram, Corporate Natalie on LinkedIn, Corporate Natalie on TikTok and Instagram.

Corporate Natalie on LinkedIn. Corp Natalie on Twitter. And hopefully more platforms to come. Just stay tuned. Yeah, tell me how you got that Twitter verification because the joke is that Twitter refuses to verify me. You're not verified on Twitter. No, they're keeping me humble. Like literally, we will apply and within 45 minutes, they're like, no, denied.

And we've done this like 15 times. It's so weird because i feel like twitter throws out verifications like constantly like every journalist ever is verified twitter's the easy one and like i can't i can't get i can't get it on twitter i'm like here's my tiktok i'm verified here's good morning america here's my book and they're like no i'm like here's the podcast and they're like no and i'm like that's so weird someone back like you probably just broke someone's heart who's working on the back end probably i'm like how many exes do i have that work at twitter totally i can't get accepted to raya so just trying to date some you know famous hotties oh i got accepted but i didn't know how to navigate it i was like i don't know what to do with this no one i don't know how to navigate it. I was like, I don't know what to do with this. No one, I don't know how to, how to operate it. Raya in San Francisco is like angel investor for Google. Like that's, those are the famous people. No, same thing in Seattle. I'm like, no,

where are the Seahawks? Where are the Mariners? And it's like, it's like arts, like commissioner or like, and I'm like, that's fun. But but like i can get out on hinge i am here for like the hot people i can't find anywhere else and then you can't screenshot it i know like who has a yacht literally that's me i'm like somebody get on a helicopter i'm sorry are the succession boys single because that's what i'm looking for for an evening. I would like a helicopter ride and then I'm out. If anyone has a Raya connection listening to this, yeah, follow me on socials for sure, but definitely get me on Raya because that's the next goal of mine. Wild. Thanks for being here. Appreciate it. Thank you so much. You're the best.

Thank you to Natalie for joining us for for this episode we have done so many episodes lately on that tension between working a full-time job and building a business and how to navigate the corporate world as a woman so if you're new to financial feminist if you are a new listener welcome we have a backlog of episodes on these topics and so many more make sure to follow natalie on tiktok and instagram and don't forget to follow us too if you don't already already. We're at herfirst100k on Instagram, on the TikTok, on everything. We're constantly uploading videos from these podcast episodes to TikTok, to Instagram, to our YouTube. So go ahead and check those out. We have links to all of this as well as Natalie's social media in our show notes. Thank you again for joining us, financial feminists.

We appreciate your support of the show. We appreciate you sharing it with your loved ones. We see you sharing it. We see you loving the show, and it makes our hearts so happy. Thank you for your support of this movement, and we'll catch you next week. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields, marketing and administration by Karina Patel, Olivia Koning, Sharice Wade, Alina Hilzer, Paulina Isaac, Sophia Cohen, Valerie Oresko, Jack Koning, and Ana Alexandra. Research by Ariel Johnson, audio engineering by Austin Fields, promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolf, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K team and community for supporting the show.

For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests, episode show notes, and our upcoming book, also titled Financial Feminist, visit herfirst100k.com.