Financial Feminist - 71. Ask Tori: My Emotions are Ruining my Finances

Episode Date: February 16, 2023

Have you ever faced imposter syndrome with a job? Felt guilty for a small splurge when things are tight? Tried to talk to friends about money and gotten blank stares? In today’s episode, Tori goes through our recent voicemails and answers questions from our community on topics like not feeling qualified enough when applying for a new job, talking to your friends about finances, finding joy in spending when you’re facing a scarcity mindset, and more.  For more resources, transcripts, and more bonus content from our show, head to www.financialfeministpodcast.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, financial feminists. Welcome back. I am actually taking some time off of work right now as this episode is airing. So I hope future me is drinking some pina coladas on a Cabo beach and enjoying her life. Myself and the entire HFK team, we've just been slammed with the end of the year and a lot of book promotion. It's been thrilling, but it's been very exhausting. And I ran myself pretty ragged. And so I am taking all of February off and I am thankful to our team. We are taking a team-wide week off in February as well to rest up and to make sure that we're providing you the best content possible.

So we're really trying to practice what we preach here and trying to prioritize rest for this year. Speaking of some rest, I don't know why I did that transition. That doesn't make any sense. Oh, boy. Some quick housekeeping before we get started. If you're new to the show, welcome. If you've not yet rated, reviewed, subscribed, we would really appreciate it. Financial Feminist is one of our favorite projects because one, it's fun to do, but two, it is completely free for you all. And your reviews and subscriptions help us not only continue to do the show, but also continue to get great guests and sponsors to be able to support the show. All right. Speaking of rest and emotional wellness,

we are doing a Ask Tori today. And it's all based around the idea of our emotions about money. So we're talking about getting over a perfectionist mindset today to overcoming self-sabotage to creating new beliefs about money. I have a mix of some emails and some voicemails I'll be answering. And I'll also just shameless plug, but this is part of the reason why I wrote a book. We spend the entire first chapter of the book talking about the emotions of money. It's the longest chapter. It is the most, I would argue, the most important chapter before you proceed to the rest of your financial life. Because the truth is, is I can't teach you how to budget. I can't teach you how to create a debt payoff plan that's

sustainable. I can't teach you how to invest until you start to understand your emotional hangups and your financial trauma around money. So that's a great place to start. And this question is from one of our HFK super fans, Mercy. And I think it's one that's all too common. Hey, Tori. So recently, I started implementing just spending a lot more mindfully. And my question is, how do I find joy in what I spend when I don't have a lot of discretionary income? Okay. So I feel like this is a super common issue, which is I don't have a lot of money. And I would like to use the little amount of money I do have

to bring me the most joy. And that's the first thing, right? We talk about often here spending according to your values and really living financially according to your values. And one of the things I joke about is Marie Kondo-ing your money, right? As if your money and your purchases don't spark joy, we're not doing them. So I would take, again, we talk about this all the time as well, a shame-free approach to looking at your purchases and do a little audit as if you're an anthropologist and sit down and be like, oh yeah, okay, spent money here and I loved that purchase. Or interesting, I spend money when I'm stressed on things that I don't

really need or want. It's an impulse purchase. And I'd like to stop doing that. And you notice even from my tone, it's very neutral. It's not like, God, I'm a piece of shit for doing that. It's just like, oh, it is what it is. And I'd like to change it. So I would say, if you haven't done so already, do an audit first of your purchases and just figure out, okay, is my money bringing me the most return on happiness investment possible? And the second thing, Jo Franco was one of our first guests on season two. And she's a great friend of mine, but also is just so smart and wise when it comes to many aspects of self-reflection. And one of the things she talked about in our episode is this idea of finding travel or joy in your everyday life. And I've actually seen a lot of TikToks

about this of finding a vacation every day. And so if you can use your small amount of money to find a vacation, whatever that looks like for you every day, or to find joy every day, then I would argue that's a bigger win than somebody who has a ton of money but is spending it very willy-nilly on things they don't really love. So if you have that small amount of discretionary money and you're wondering what to do with it, one, again, we want it to bring you the most joy and happiness possible. But B, even if it's just a little tiny bit of joy or satisfaction or ease in your day, I think that that is a worthwhile purchase. And we've, again, mentioned so many times before, but your money is yours. It is not somebody else's.

Do not spend your hard-earned money on things that would bring somebody else joy, but that you feel like you're supposed to do, right? Spend money according to your values and what actually makes you happy. I would also say too that give yourself, of course, a lot of grace and understanding. And there's times, of course, where more money would bring you more happiness. So we're doing what we can with what we have right now. I'll give an example too, before we move on to the next question. When I was in my first year out of college and I was making decent money, but I didn't have a bunch of money to spend on a bunch of different things, it actually made me more

focused and grateful for the times that I did spend money or could spend money. It's like this concept of treating yourself, right? If treat yourself becomes a habit, it's no longer a treat, right? It's just happening all of the time. And actually, there's something beautiful to be said about you being able to cherry pick your experiences with the funds you do have available. I tell this story in the book, but I remember the sheer joy it brought me to spend $4 on a chocolate croissant in Pike Place Market while walking around after work. And I don't know why, but it was, again, so simple and a relatively small amount of money. But it was the experience

of like, I am independent. I am spending my money. It's my money that I earned. And I just get to have this little joyful experience, right? And I was in my city. I didn't travel anywhere. I didn't spend a lavish amount of money, right? It was just like, I get to be at peace with myself with this beautiful day with this really, really yummy buttery croissant. And I just really had this beautiful experience of enjoying my life and enjoying the progress I was making. So hopefully that helps. All right. Our second question is from someone who's trying to balance saving and spending, but feeling guilty about both.

Hi, I am Grace. I am a graduate student in Chicago, Illinois, and I am one of those Lucky Guide students who gets a stipend. So I get paid about $35,000 a year, which is great for a graduate student, but horrible for any other metric. And I live in a big city and it's really tough. My rent is about $1,200 a month, and I'm finding it really hard to set aside money and save, let alone just like get by month to month. I find that I have spending that like seems superfluous to me. So like I'll get a coffee or I'll go to HomeGoods and get storage bins for my house. But you know, if you ask anyone else, they're like, Oh, yeah, whatever. So my question is, how do I prioritize? Do I need to feel bad about not saving during this time? Because it

feels impossible to me. And then what are some steps I can take to make the most of the very limited funds I have? Thank you so much for your help. Okay. All too common problem. I imagine that anybody listening is like raising their hand right now. And it's one of the common questions we get asked. And it's a very delicate balance because you know, you need to save money. You know, you need to be financially responsible, but if you don't have a lot of money and then you're also feeling guilty constantly about anything you spend money on that doesn't further your financial goals, you're kind of in a pickle. So I want to give you the permission slip that really you need to give yourself that these small luxuries are not the reason that you're not able to save and are not things to feel guilty about. You are a person with needs and also with wants. And spending money on those things is 100% okay.

I think a lot of traditional personal finance advice is, again, scrimp, deprive yourself. If you're not saving money, you're doing something wrong. And the truth is, even the fact that you get a stipend in grad school, amazing, but it's so teeny weeny, especially living in a big city like Chicago. So understand that you are probably just doing your best right now. Now, I would also, if saving money is important to you, and you know that it's important to you, and you want to save in order to progress in your life and in your financial goals, see if there are things that you can tweak about your budget. Maybe it's, okay, instead of spending that $5, I'm going to automate $5 into my savings instead, right? But again, I'm not the person who's going to sit here and be like,

you need to stop buying incredibly lovely things at HomeGoods because I'm a HomeGoods fiend. And that's just not sustainable. And it's not fun. And I need you to release all of the guilt that you're feeling as much as you can. And that's just you going up to the register and purchasing something at HomeGoods. And when your little voice in your head goes, do you actually need that thing? What are you doing? You're wasting money. Why aren't you saving that money? It's just, again, kindly with grace talking to that voice. Like you're an anthropologist. You're like, why am I feeling this way? Oh, it's because I feel guilty about spending money. Why do I feel guilty about spending money? Why do I feel this way? And I

think that that will help you ground your decisions, but also contextualize that a lot of this guilt is not actually productive, totally common trauma response when it comes to money and saving money. But know that it's completely normal and okay to be spending money on things that you don't absolutely need in order to progress in your life. And if there is some flexibility in your budget because saving is important to you, try to find it. You also, again, don't need my permission, but have my permission to just be a full-time student right now. That's what you're doing. As you're going to grad school, you're getting your degree so that hopefully you are making more money and you're able to save a bigger chunk when you do

graduate. So sending all of the love in the world to you. Know that you are 100% not alone. This is something that I hear about all of the time. And you can find a balance between spending and saving. You can also let yourself off the hook. All right, let's take our next question. Hi, Tori. I am learning so much from you in the last few weeks since I found your podcast. I can't wait for your book to come. I have changed all of my savings accounts to high yield savings accounts. I've gotten a credit card that is going to give me points. I have learned so much from you and I applied for a new job where I'm not entirely qualified, but I figured I would apply anyway and just see what happened.

And I got an online assessment, which I passed. I did a phone screen, which I passed. I was moved on to the next round where I would be making literally twice the money that I'm making now. And I chickened out. I withdrew my application. And a couple of weeks later, I really wish that I hadn't. And I really feel like it was just imposter syndrome. They're

going to find out that I don't know how to do this job and I'm going to make a fool of myself and they're going to let me go. I don't really know what to do about that. I would like to keep applying and I would like to find something that's going to challenge me a little bit more than what I'm doing now. How do I get past the imposter syndrome? How do I talk myself into staying with those applications and doing those interviews? I interview very well and I just don't know what happened. Do you have any advice for moving forward with a job like this where I feel like I'm just not qualified? So this, this experience of imposter syndrome, of feeling like, oh my God,

somebody's going to figure out I'm a fraud, or maybe I'm not deserving of this thing, all too common. I'm going to get on my soapbox for a second, and then I'll actually give you advice. Here's the thing, and I talk about this so much on the podcast, in the book, we have been conditioned as women, as a member of any marginalized group to play small. And when we start playing big, we not only get pushback from other people and from society, we also start getting pushback from ourselves because you're doing something potentially a little uncomfortable, right? Society's demand is conformity. And if you are going outside of society's demand, if you are starting to play bigger, if you're starting to want more from

your life, want more from your career, want more from your relationships, suddenly, that's a really scary thing. And it's not because you're bad as an individual. It's not because you're not deserving of the thing. But it's because society has conditioned you to play small and has conditioned you to accept the kind of treatment that is frankly shitty treatment, but has been perpetuated for literally eons. So know that this is 100% a society thing and that your response, not only completely normal, but a response to the demand on women and other marginalized groups to shrink ourselves. In terms of imposter syndrome, I want to tell you a little story about the last day I've ever had imposter syndrome. And yes,

I have the timestamp. It was 2019. Her first 100K was still a side hustle at this time, but we were gaining some momentum. And I was asked to speak on a panel for a women's group in Seattle. I show up for this panel. It's like at Saturday and Saturday morning at like 10 a.m. And I show up in my classic like jeans and Adidas and a leather jacket. I am the youngest person on this panel by at least a decade. Everyone else is like a venture capitalist at a fancy firm or a bigwig financial advisor. And of course, they're all in pencil skirts and blazers and suit and ties. And I show up and I immediately am like, I am not supposed to be here. I'm not supposed to be here. I'm too young. I'm too inexperienced.

I'm showing up authentically me, but that's not good enough. And my leather jacket, like that's not going to work. And I remember sitting on this panel and just having this like, I know I'm, I like believe in my own abilities, but like, what will people think of me? And am I not enough to be sitting here? And then something really interesting happened, which is the panel got started. And I looked out over the sea of women who were there. And they were almost all in their 20s and 30s, around my age. And I realized as I started talking that their heads were nodding.

Or they were whispering to their friend next to them about something. And you could tell they were excited. And I started to realize that not only was what I was saying valuable because I knew that, but the way I was saying it, my approach to it was more accessible. Because although I still very much respect everybody I was on the panel with that day, they could not connect with those people in that room in the same way that I could. Because something like personal finance that is already intimidating and already inaccessible feels even more intimidating and even more inaccessible when people who have been financial advisors for two decades use words like asset allocation or stock shorting or rebalancing your portfolio. And what happened is we did a 45-minute panel and then we had breakout sessions after. And my breakout session by far was the most popular. There were the most people there. And it was all women in their 20s and 30s because I think that they saw me as like a best friend or a sister who was explaining money to them. And yes, I didn't have as much experience on paper.

I wasn't as, you know, quote unquote professional, but I realized that what I had to say mattered, the way I presented it mattered, and sometimes people just need to feel a little less alone. And that was the last time I had imposter syndrome. Because the truth was, if I walked into a room thinking, I don't think I should be here, the truth was that I was 100% there for a reason. And it might not be because, again, I have the longest resume. It might be because people connect with me in a way that matters, or I present things in a way that matters. So if you are walking into this job situation, and again, I say this with all of the love and grace in the world, you're sabotaging yourself. One, society is demanding you do that in order to keep you playing small, in order to keep you underpaid and overworked and not rising to your full potential. And the second thing is that the

way to overcome imposter syndrome is to realize that you are worthy. You are worthy of opportunities. You are worthy of an incredible career that is fulfilling. You're worthy of a fantastic, career that is fulfilling. You're worthy of a fantastic, healthy relationship with people in your life. You are worthy of love and opportunity and all of the good things. And you are in that room for a reason. You are offered that position for a reason. You made your way through the interview and wowed them enough for them to give you that position for a reason. interview and wowed them enough for them to give you that position for a reason. Again, there's no reason to beat yourself up. There's no reason to be ashamed. This is, again, I mean, take a shot every time I say this, this episode, a completely normal response, totally normal. And it's not just, you know, you grappling with individual imposter syndrome, but also dealing with society's expectations of you.

So know that I see you. I have the most empathy in the world for you. And as much as you can, I need you to never shrink yourself to make other people feel better or shrink yourself because you feel like it's what you're supposed to do or should do. Because you are in that room for a reason. You are highly capable, highly worthy, and highly badass. All right, let's take our last question for this episode. Hi, y'all. I love the pod. And I have a tricky situation that I'm hoping that y'all could input on. I'm a high school dropout from a low-income family, but I've always been very motivated to pave a way for myself.

And after a decade of working multiple jobs, starting earlier in the workforce than most of my friends due to leaving school to support my family and myself, I've landed my first executive role within a financial company. The other day, I was at dinner with a friend of mine who comes from a very high-income family with a master's in finance who works as an entry-level accountant without a lot of job experience, but really, really amazing schooling under her belt. I tried to have a transparent discussion with her about negotiating salaries since I had a review coming up and she asked me to stop talking with her about it because she felt it was unfair that my job had paid me more.

I totally froze and I didn't know what to say or do. I felt terribly because I don't want to make her feel bad, but I've also worked very hard for my position and it makes sense that our pay rates are different as we have completely different backgrounds. I ended up apologizing and dropping the conversation. She apologized and explained that her family has ingrained in her to never discuss money, but I feel like she's underpaid and I thought the discussion would be good for the both of us to have. How can we as women respond to this type of situation more effectively? I don't want to offend my friends, but I also feel it's valuable to discuss finance as women. Okay. So first thing, the talking about money is taboo narrative. We've discussed it on the podcast. I have a whole section in the book about it.

This is a narrative meant to keep us underpaid and overworked, right? It's meant to keep us, again, plain small. Because if you don't talk about money, you don't know that Chad, who got hired two years after you, is making 20% more. And if you don't talk about money, you feel shame about your debt, not realizing that a bunch of other people might feel the same way and you feel alone and siloed. So talking about money is super necessary. Here's the kicker though. Anytime you talk about something vulnerable, that other person has to also be willing to be vulnerable with you. And sometimes they're not at the same point in their journey as you. Sim, who is a friend of mine who hosts the Girls That Invest podcast. I interviewed her for the book.

And in the last chapter, we talk about actually she, in a very similar situation, tried to reach out to a friend to talk about money. And her friend set the boundary where she's like, I don't want to do that. And Sim was like, all right, okay, then we can't. And it sounds like your friend came around and beautifully realized, oh, this is my own hang up because I've been told that this is bad. So the blanket answer is you can't make somebody do something they're not willing to do. We also know how important it is for women to talk about money. It's like that delicate balance of how do you push somebody to be better and how do you advocate for them while also knowing that it might make them uncomfortable this depends person to person relationship to relationship right christine

and i tell each other all of the things all of the time in a very like empathetic way and it's because we want each other to be better and we want our relationship to be better and there's been plenty of times where she said something that I'm like, I feel called out and I have to sit in that and then realize that she might be correct. And if you have that kind of relationship, amazing. But if it is more casual, then you might get some resistance. It's hard to know. It's like me talking to some family members sometimes about like let's talk

about white supremacy and patriarchy and racism and it's like i need you to know that this is important but you might not know it's important you might not be at the same point in the journey i think not just with this situation or this question but of course money in general this is a lifelong learning process, right? This is progress over perfection. This is overcoming a lot of trauma and a lot of narratives and a lot of society's expectations. And it's going to be messy for a while. And the interesting part about specifically talking about money is you are doing two things. One, you are discussing something that is the ultimate taboo. We know from data that we are more likely to talk about sex, politics, religion,

anything else, death. We're more likely to talk about death before we'll talk about money. We're more likely to get naked with somebody than we will to talk about money with them, right? So you're already battling that. You're battling society stigma. But two, and the most big important thing is that you have to be radically vulnerable. And that in and of itself takes people decades to learn and get good at. And it's only if they're willing to learn it. And also if they're willing to put themselves out there and create a safe space of trust for someone else to be vulnerable with them. overcome society's stigma, you have to show your underbelly, right? And be very vulnerable. And I think it's a beautiful thing. It's not going to be perfect. And you're doing your best. And it sounds like the most important thing is that you and this person have the kind of relationship where one of you can say, hey, that did make me uncomfortable. And here's why. hey, that did make me uncomfortable. And here's why. That means the vulnerability is already there.

It's just the talking about money that's going to come next. So allow this person to continue to grow. And maybe the response to them is, I'm always here if you want to talk about it. And if you have any questions, and I'm also happy to share what I'm dealing with when it comes to money. And also explaining to them why, right? I am looking out for you. And I want also happy to share what I'm dealing with when it comes to money and also explaining to them why. Right. I am looking out for you and I want to make sure that we women stick together. Right. And I want to make sure that you are getting compensated fairly. And that's why I'm having this conversation. Vulnerability on both sides and a deep understanding that so much of this is rooted in, again, not only systemic oppression, but just society stigma about what we are or are not allowed to talk about. So cheering you on, cheering everybody on out there who is trying

to navigate these difficult conversations. And know that we have plenty of episodes, both in the back catalog, as well as episodes that are coming up about how to have these conversations, whether that's with a friend, your coworker, your partner, your parents, your family. We've got all of that and more for you. I love taking your questions. It makes me very happy to hear directly from you and to hopefully give some lovely perspective and value for you all. If you enjoy the show, feel free to subscribe. You can also submit your own questions. You can either email us or you can also send in a voicemail. I love to hear it in your own voice and also know who it's coming from.

We appreciate you being here as always, financialeminists. We hope this was helpful and helped you unpack some of the emotions around money. We can't wait to hear from you and we'll catch you soon. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields, marketing and administration by Karina Patel, Sharice Wade, Alina Helzer, Paulina Isaac, Sophia Cohen, Valerie Oresko, Jack Koning, Khalil Dumas, Elizabeth McCumber, Beth Bowen, and Amanda LeFue.

Research by Ariel Johnson. Audio engineering by Austin Fields. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton. Photography by Sarah Wolf. And theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K team and community for supporting the show. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests, and episode show notes, visit

financialfeministpodcast.com or follow us on Instagram at financialfeministpodcast.