Financial Feminist - 79. I'm Afraid to Talk About My Net Worth: Tori's Interview on Other People's Pockets

Episode Date: March 28, 2023

Why are women afraid to talk about their finances? Even our host and financial educator, Tori Dunlap, gets anxious over sharing exactly how much she makes and recently sat down to talk about why. Join us for this special cross-release with Other People’s Pockets, where host Maya Lau and Tori chat about her career thus far, why she feels the stigma around discussing money is more predominant in women, and how she’s working to create more transparency around finances. Enjoyed this episode? Check out Other People’s Pockets from Little Everywhere, wherever you get your podcasts! https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/other-peoples-pockets  Learn more about the episode, read transcripts, and get links to our money tools at www.herfirst100k.com/financialfeministpodcast Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, financial feminists. Welcome back. Fun fact, we're currently on a company retreat right now. So we thought this would be a fun week to highlight a recent interview I did with my friends over at Pushkin Industries and Little Everywhere. This was a year ago. Hard to believe. So some parts of this interview might have changed. My life has definitely changed in the past year. So what you'll hear today is my interview on Other People's Pockets. You listen to my show, so chances are you're pretty curious about money. And most of us want to know how we can make more of it, how much our friends are making, and what they're spending it on. And if you love being a little voyeuristic with money, this is an incredible show for you. On other people's pockets, journalist Maya Lau asked people from all walks of life to get

radically transparent about their personal finances in order to learn more about who we are and level the financial playing field along the way. One of those people Maya talked to was me, yours truly. I joined her to discuss the income and stress of influencer life, how we view money based on gender, and how to navigate capitalism to the best of our ability in the most feminist way possible. It was one of my favorite conversations I think I've ever had, especially last year when I was considering a lot of things, when I was in the midst of writing my book, when I was trying to figure out how to navigate growing her first 100K as a company,

but also as a movement. It gave me a lot to think about outside of the interview about the way I wanted to live my life. Without further ado, here's my conversation with Maya. I hope you enjoy it. And for more practical advice on financial wellness and to get a little gossipy about other people's money, check out Other People's Pockets wherever you listen to your podcasts. But first, a word from our sponsors. Really at the heart is, can financial feminism exist under capitalism? And the answer is no. However, this is the system that currently exists. And while you're figuring out how to navigate this fucking capitalist hellscape, we can work to burn it down.

Late at night when I'm doing my revenge bedtime procrastination on TikTok or Instagram, I thought to myself, who are all these social media influencers and how much goddamn money do they make? My guest Tori Dunlap has an answer. She's a very on-brand guest for us because not only is she an influencer, 2.2 million followers on TikTok,

685,000 on Instagram, she's an influencer who talks about money. And just a note, this was recorded many months ago, so some of the time references you hear might be a little off. I'm Maya Lau, and this is Other People's Pockets, the show where I ask people about their money so the questions we all have about how much other people make and how their finances work can be a little bit less of a mystery. Hey, Tori, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. So I'm so excited to talk to you because you are all about transparency around money, and that's what we are also trying to do on this show. And I don't usually start here. I usually warm up to this question, but I figured that you would be totally game for it. So can you

just tell me what you do and how much money you make? So my name is Tori. I run Her First 100K, which is a money and career platform for women. And I basically fight the patriarchy by making women rich. So I'm a financial educator and a speaker. It's an interesting question, and I'm going to give you a politician answer, but I'm going to explain why I give you a politician answer. Up until probably a year or two ago, I was extremely transparent with my own personal finances. I would tell you immediately what number I had in my bank account, you know, how much debt I had, if any, I paid off my debt in early 2020. Yeah, what the business made,

what I was taking from the business, I was super transparent about all of that. And then an interesting thing started to happen. And this is part of the reason why I, of course, the reason I do the work that I do, and it's weird to have it reflected back in my own life. Part of what I've discovered in my own research and my own experience with what I do now is that we view money very differently depending on gender and race and all of these other factors. And specifically, we view men who have money very different than we view women who have money. Men who have money are lauded and celebrated and worshipped, and women who have money,

well, they must have gotten it from somewhere else. It must be daddy's money. It must be from their husband. They must have, you know, gotten it not of their own hard work and their own volition. And the way they spend that money is judged in a way that men's money isn't. And the other thing that I've realized, also through conversations with people in my life who care about me a lot, is that if I am public as a woman about how much money I have, it puts a target on my back in a way it doesn't for men. It's interesting when I think about, I would love to be able to celebrate how hard I've worked and to talk about that transparently because that's what I've been all about for a really long time. And yet the very thing I'm fighting against, which is this view

that, you know, women who have money are bad or that we get to dictate what they do with it, affects me very directly. So in the process of like trying to fight against that, I'm realizing in my own life what that means. And unfortunately, what having financial stability means in terms of your own safety as a woman. But I will tell you, I'm a multi seven figure business owner, our business has generated multi seven figures in revenue both last year, and we're on track to do that this year. And I am financially independent, meaning that I would never have to work another day in my life if I didn't want to. And of course, I want to because I believe in my work very much. Yeah, I mean, that's so crazy because it's kind

of like, yeah, like you said, like, as of a few years ago, you would have been open about it. And then now, now you've like, come full circle where it's like, oh, actually, I can't tell you this, which, which is like the thing that like you. It literally, all I want to do is tell you. And all I want to do is talk about it. Because that's what I believe, right? If that's my whole thing about financial transparency, and yet I'm up against the very factors I'm trying to change with my work. And just to put in context for you to be running a multi seven figure business, how old are you? I'm trying to change with my work. And just to put in context for you to be running a multi-seven figure business, how old are you? I'm 27.

Okay. So yeah, that's pretty amazing. I mean, can you talk about this duality of you are a public figure, you want to talk about money. There could be like people who see you on the street and recognize you, right? And so it happens all the time now. Yeah. And that's helpful for you. It's helpful for your business. At the same time, like it brings these risks and these drawbacks.

Like how do you kind of figure out like what the balance is there? Are there days where you're like fuck like i just wish i could just be anonymous and like just not be visually consumed be judged commented upon etc like i just want to like opt out it's really funny you say that it's like you cracked open my brain and looked inside um all of this is speaking from a place of intense privilege having financial stability of having a business of a place of intense privilege, having financial stability of having a business of doing all of those things. So anything I'm going to say is going to be a little bit like, oh, poor you complaining about this. But I literally have told

a few people in my life, like my best friend, and I work with an energy coach and I've talked to her about this of like, I have this duality where I, my ambition, I want my face and our business and our mission on magazines. And I want to sell out stadiums talking about what we want to talk about. And I want to write, you know, a bunch of books and have a TV show and have, you know, continue the success of our podcast. And like, my ambition wants all of that so desperately. And at the same time, there is part of me that is like, I want a cabin in the woods. I want nobody to ever know who I am. And I want to get a bunch of dogs and play, you know, board games and do puzzles and read books. And that's what I want the rest of my life to be. me. And I'm trying to find ways that both of those things can exist because I feel like my ambition is the thing that's gotten me here. My ambition is also a drug and I don't want to overdose on that drug. Is there an argument to be made that as this grows, as her first 100k grows,

that you're not the face of it? Or like, basically, why does it even have to be about you to begin with? The answer is it doesn't. You're exactly right. And again, it's like you've peered into my brain. We're having calls with our team every week to move from a creator-focused business to a brand-focused business. And that's 100% something that we're doing right now. We are currently literally having conversations with other women we admire to kind of bring them within the fold, both because I would really like to not burn out, please. And also because I personally don't want to just hear from a cisgendered white woman all the time. So I feel like giving some diversity both in thought as well as experience, but also, our audience is getting

more and more global every day. And somebody comes to me and it's like, what do you recommend for Canadians? And I'm like, honestly, I don't know. It's hard enough just to keep up with the United States and what's going on here. So no, that's literally 100% what the plan is. And we are trying to move from Her First 100K being Tori Dunlap to Her First 100K being a company that happens to be founded by Tori Dunlap. So that's an intentional choice that literally we're in the midst of planning and making right now. And I love, I just love how you're talking about all this because I think that there's obviously this, this would be a very sort of retrograde perspective to have. But you know, there are people out there who are like, oh, like being an influencer, that just seems so easy. And like, you just, you know, it's just you and you just put up videos of yourself and like, you don't

have to have a certain degree or. It's a 60 second TikTok. How much, how much time did you actually spend on that? Right. And like, you're kind of speaking to like, here are the realities of it. Like, yes, like it, it's helped grow your your business but at the same time like it's also really hard and like you can also really burn out and there's there's mental health costs if there's anything that i'm now realizing it's that on a daily basis not just even trolls because i can write that off of a man calling me fat and telling me i'm going to be a i'm never going to get married like whatever bullshit okay it's literally now every day, someone who actually, like, whose opinion I respect is upset with me about something. And it's very interesting. And I am the human, like,

actual physical embodiment of Leslie Knope. I want everybody to love me all the time. And I want to win people over. And that is so important to me. And I also at the same time, don't give a fuck what people think. And that's a very interesting Venn diagram. This is now like almost a daily occurrence. And I'm trying to come to terms with that and understand that with this growth is also going to come both necessary and really helpful feedback of how I can run my business better, how I can show up better, but also feeling sometimes like I got to batten down the hatches for it. And it's something that I'm not shocked about, but didn't necessarily prepare for. And I don't know if

anybody can prepare for it. And I literally, I turned to my COO, Karina, the other day, literally, I turned to my COO, Karina, the other day, and I was just like, I just want somebody to just like, understand all of the things that we have to think about before we publish something or before we, you know, create something. And now we're a team of 15. And, you know, managing that team and each of them doing their best to figure out, you know, how to present something well. And I love my job. And I love my job, and I love what I do. This is just the shit that you just don't think about, of wondering if someone will give you grace when you do make a mistake. Do you have someone help screen the comments you get? I mean, how do you deal with that? We have a bit of that. I also feel like a fucking

protective mama bear over my team too where I'm also trying to protect their mental health and I would rather have mine suffer if they don't have to but no we do have like we have a community manager who's great who you know monitors comments and that sort of thing but like I see things because I care about what I do and I also love seeing the great comments I love seeing the the really positive ones. But no, I mean, yeah, I definitely see them. And I think it's kind of unavoidable. And I actually do hate that advice where people are like, just don't look at comments. And I'm like, I don't think you like it's literally impossible if you are online for two seconds. Right. And like the engagement is also part of

the whole thing. Right. But no, again, like the conversations we've had in the last year and continuing to have this year about the way we structure the business, like hiring people whose entire job it is is just to like grow

and manage our community and make sure it's not only a safe space for myself and for our team, but also for other community members. So how much do you currently charge for a post on Instagram or TikTok? All rates are negotiable. I'm willing to do, you know, more work for less money potentially if like the brand makes sense or if it's less of my active time and more of like my team can help produce content. I think we're at 15k for like a 60 second TikTok and around 10 to 12 for an Instagram post.

And do they give you creative license? Are they like, great, so just do a post about our brand? Or like, do you have to run it by them? Or like, how do you figure that out? have to run it by them or like how how do you figure that out 95 of the time it is here is generally like we just did a sponsored campaign with canva who i've actually been chasing for years they're the like the design tool and they were our dream partner because literally we i have used canva in every job every corporate job i've had and then we built everything for her first 100k in canva so i was stoked stoked. And so for them, they were a little more flexible where they're like, send us some scripts about like, about this and about your experience with it. And then we'll sign off on them. But yeah, it is very much like some brands

are like, you have to say this thing word for word. Others are like, we don't care as long as you as long as you, you know, make sure to mention, of course, the product or whatever. Most commonly, it is very similar to that Canva partnership where it's like, okay, here's the thing we want you to highlight. We'll approve the scripts. Here's the timeline we need it by. We would like to also see, like, basically a screen recording of the video before you publish it. And, like, how do you figure out what the value is of it? Like, are other people telling you, Tori, you are not charging enough? Like,

how do you figure out what is the actual value and what should I be charging? The one thing I do when people ask me is I ask them to think about how many hours it's going to take them to not only, of course, create the content, but to go back and forth with a brand to actually, you know, record something, to get something approved. It ends up being sometimes with, you know, a campaign, maybe it's 10 hours, maybe it's 20, maybe it's 50, depending on how much work you're doing. It's really not about the followers immediately. It's just about like, how much time are you putting into this thing? And in addition, of course, if you're an entrepreneur, which any content creator

is, they're working for themselves, 30% of that is going to be taxes right off the top, right? So if it's $1,000 that this client's paying you, you're paying 30% for taxes, $300 of that is gone. client's paying you, you're paying 30% for taxes, $300 of that is gone. So now your rate's 700, right? And if you put 20 hours in or 25, I can't do that math really quick, but like it ends up being not a lot. And that's assuming you have nothing in expenses. You 100% do, right? You probably have a laptop, maybe you have filming equipment, you have your phone that you're probably filming it on or your camera you're filming it on, right? So, you know, let's take another $200 off that 700 for expenses. So, you know, immediately just thinking about your rate in terms of like how much you're getting per hour for your actual labor of creating that

content. Typically, people are undercharging just with that. So, I've become the person on TikTok now who just people will DM me and be like, hi, I'm sorry to bother you. This brand reached out. I have no idea what I should be charging. And unfortunately, what's typically happened is I had one woman who I follow, we're mutuals on TikTok, and I think she has like 3.2 million followers and I have 2.1. So she's even bigger than I am. And this brand wanted to pay her like 500 bucks. And she's like, should I take this? Is this a good deal? And I was like, hell no, it's not like hell no it's not a good deal i was like no no no no and it was just proof to me of again like these conversations are not being had and we need to start talking to each other because both it sucks for you if you if you don't get paid your worth of course if you don't get compensated

fairly but also if you take way less then the rest of us have to take way less, right? Yeah. And so, it hurts not just you, it hurts everybody in the industry. And again, it disproportionately affects women and people of color because we're largely the people who are doing it. So, it's so veiled and it's so new. There's this bias or this like thought that like content creation is like, oh, well, you just, you spent 30 seconds on a TikTok video. Like, why do you deserve $12,000? And I'm like, okay, well, it is a real job. And I could go off on you for about a half hour explaining like, what all goes into that. And you know, the care and the detail and that basically,

you're a one person marketing agency, if somebody's choosing to work with you as an influencer or a content creator. Like, you are being hired as someone to create content almost as if they were hiring a marketing agency. So, it's just, again, like an onion when you start, like, peeling back layers, you just keep peeling for a while. Can you talk about, like, what parts of your business sort of bring in the most money? What brings in the least money? Kind of like what are all the ways that you make money? It's actually really funny we're having this conversation right now because we just lost 50% of our revenue.

And I'm happy to tell you why. The vast majority of our business comes from partnerships. So we do sell courses like we do a lot of direct to consumer kind of sales. So we do courses or digital downloads, that sort of thing. So if you were a person who was trying to learn about money, you could come and, you know, pay like $97 and get our course or something like that. So we make a good chunk of revenue from that. But the vast majority of our business is built on partnerships with larger companies who actually have a lot of money, right? So me partnering with a company,

recommending them and us getting a cut if that person, if somebody signs up, doing speaking opportunities at corporations. And the interesting thing is almost 50% of our revenue came from one particular partner. And we got some feedback from our community that was pretty alarming in terms of how their customer service was treating them. And through a lot of thought and a lot of back and forth and a lot of deliberation, we chose to end that partnership at a severe cost to our business. So overnight in February and March, we've lost 50% of our revenue. And we will be fine as a company. However, again, the things you don't think about as a business owner is we're hiring because we're growing. And ultimately, again,

we will be fine. But we chose to make the right decision for our community and taking a huge, massive revenue cut because of it. A lot of bosses feel like no one ever teaches them how to be a boss, right? So what's it like not only being in your 20s, but like having employees and kind of thinking through like your responsibility to other people and that this is their income and this is what they use to feed their families. Like how do you kind of think through that? Yeah, it's a lot of pressure in the best way possible. Yeah, it's a lot of pressure in the best way possible. Yeah, no, the realization in the coolest way that this is beyond me now and that we get to give people jobs is amazing. But also the kind of panic of, oh, this is beyond me now. And there's people, yes, to your point, relying on me for income.

Do you think that your employees can achieve the level of financial freedom that you have if they work at a job working for you or just at any traditional job? It's a very interesting question. I'm going to be honest with you and say no. And I say that because my numbers, the actual numbers of how much I made and how much I was able to take home vastly changed when I went full-time in my business. Now, again, I sat on that business for three years, grew it on the side of my nine-to-five. I made strategic decisions in order for that to happen. But the numbers between what I was making at corporate and what I'm making now are very, very different numbers.

So yes, you can achieve financial independence, financial stability, 100%. But I'm not blind to the fact that I did that as a 27-year-old because I own my own business. 100%. Yeah. And you've talked openly about, like, you grew up with privilege you grew up with with parents who taught you about money can you talk a bit more about your origin story like what what did your parents teach you about money and what what was their financial situation sure um my parents are very private people and uh we've discussed quite a lot that uh they would like to maintain their privacy but i will tell you a couple things about my parents. Both of them didn't grow up with a lot.

My dad especially. My dad and his two brothers. It's going to make me cry. I've never gotten through this story without crying. They took a bath once a week. And grew up in a pretty toxic situation with an abusive father and an alcoholic father. And this is part of the reason why it really hurts when I see comments of, oh, your parents must be filthy rich. And I'm like, no. I was my parents' investment.

And my parents worked really hard to make sure that I never wanted for anything. And, of course, you know, my parents are still in the same house I grew up in. They could have upgraded, but they wanted to make sure to send me to really good schools and wanted to make sure that I could take piano lessons if I wanted to do that and wanted to make sure that, yeah, I was their investment. make sure that, yeah, I was their investment. They get so much credit for who I am and what I have been able to do with my career because they didn't have it. And so they committed to giving me that. In terms of particular advice, I learned very early on from my parents that if you want something, you have to save money for it. My parents don't have a debit card. I don't either. I've never owned a debit card,

neither have they. They put everything on credit cards, and then they pay it off on time and in full every month. And that's a practice I took from them. And so they were very much like, credit cards are actually really useful, but as long as you use them responsibly. And here's what it means to use that credit card responsibly. My dad sat me down and taught me how to invest. I definitely didn't know everything that I was doing, but he at least helped me get started. And again, I realized with all of that, that it was a privilege in talking to my friends and talking about how they grew up. I realized that that financial education was a privilege and with that privilege came a responsibility. And so that is why I, you know, do the work that I do now is realizing that unfortunately that shouldn't be a privilege and that having open

conversations about money where my parents were not just telling me how to like manage their money, they were actually showing me was really powerful. And so I really saw them model what I now call value-based spending, which is like spending your money, your discretionary money on things that you really, really love and cutting back on everything else in order to do that. And I do the same thing in my life. You know, when I was saving my original 100K, my origin story of her first 100K was me trying to save 100K at 25. You know, part of that was me discovering like, oh, okay, I want to spend money on these certain things and then not spend any money elsewhere. And I didn't

feel like I was depriving myself. I was still, you know, going out to eat when I wanted to go out to eat and was still getting to travel and do the things that were important to me. But there was just certain things I just wasn't spending my money on at all. And so having that modeled for me, I think, was really powerful. In addition to the privilege of a financial education and me bringing up the $100K, I'm the first to acknowledge that that $100K would not have happened as quickly as it did if I graduated with student debt. because I worked three jobs on campus. I got tens of thousands of dollars in merit scholarships. But also, again, I was my parents' investment. They had the foresight and had the stability and ability to set aside money for me for college.

So it wasn't like they handed me a check. It was more of a collaborative process of me paying, you know, us working to pay for my bachelor's degree. However, I fully acknowledge that that is a privilege that plenty of people don't have. What class did you consider yourself when you were growing up and what class do you consider yourself now? I think we were mid to maybe upper middle class. Even in being transparent about money, I still don't know how much my parents make. And I don't know how much they have saved, which I think is very

interesting. For being as transparent as they were, and as transparent as I am with them, I actually still don't know their numbers. So it's hard to say. I think now for me, based on my age, based on, you know, my tax bracket, yeah, I'm definitely upper class. It's weird. I've never actually had to say that out loud. It makes me feel weird. It's very interesting. I'm a financial expert and that makes me feel weird. Why does it make you feel weird? It's a good question. I think there is still such a stigma around how we view people with money. And you, like, want to be the person who's like, yes, I have money, but I'm trying to do good with it, you know? Like, and this is, again, a unique thing that I feel women, we feel this unique

pressure as women to do. Like, we have to caveat it. Right. You have to hedge and be like, but, like, I'm a big giver. Yeah. Right, right. And we almost, like, have to, like, tax ourselves, right? You can't just have money because it's good to have stability and it's nice to buy nice things. And of course, it's good to donate. I'm not Scrooge McDuck, right? But it's like, men don't do this shit. Men don't have to do this shit. They don't have to do this shit. They don't have to apologize for buying a Rolex. Like, they don't have to do that. They don't have to show you that they, you know, they donated this amount of money or that they gave this amount of money away to somebody in need.

Like, they don't have to do that shit. So I wanted to also ask you about, like, your big thing is, like, women need to invest. They need to invest they need to invest early Roth IRA 401k index funds mutual funds like you need to be in the stock market right and at the same time like you know a lot of the the big companies out there like if you were to invest in S&P 500 index like those big companies are not all, you know. Not all roses and puppies. Yeah. Right. Like, it's definitely upholding the status quo, a lot of it. And I know we're

speaking in very broad strokes. But, you know, there's one argument for, like, okay, so you need to just play the game. And you need to be part of the system. Because if you don't, like, you're going to be left behind. And like, you alone can't change everything and at the same time like there's an argument for like burn it down this capitalist system is is a result of you know the the system that we have and so like where do you kind of draw the line of like reconciling like you need to not get left behind but at the same time like if you buy into this, like you're you are buying into the system. Okay, this is this is a again, we're going to peel back layer by layer here at Asunion. So I'm writing a book right now, my manuscripts actually do April 1. And

literally, my introduction is basically answering the question you just posed to me, which I really at the heart is, can financial feminism exist under capitalism? And the answer is no. Like, true feminism, true equality, of course, cannot exist under capitalism. I do not like capitalism. I do not support it. I do not want it. However, this is the system that currently exists. And you have to figure out how to pay your rent. And you have to figure out how to take care of yourself. And you have to figure out how to buy your rent and you have to figure out how to take care of yourself and you have to figure out how to buy groceries. And while you're figuring out how to buy groceries and figuring out how to save money and figuring out how to navigate this fucking capitalist hellscape, we can work to burn it down, right? We can work to change the very system that we exist

in. And it's not a perfect solution, but frankly, I think it's the only solution we have, is try our best to do the least harm possible. Because whether we do like it or not, we have to play the game in order to survive. And that's what I believe financial feminism is, is putting your oxygen mask on first so that you can then help others. And I am okay playing the game if it means that I get to grow my wealth and then go do good things with it. I am okay, in this instance, in investing in potentially companies that I don't love or whose actions I don't agree with, I'm okay actually going in there and profiting off of these terrible companies and then doing things that they would absolutely hate, like supporting, you know, candidates that they wouldn't or supporting policies that they wouldn't or giving money to people who really fucking need it. But again, that's, of course, not a perfect solution either. And I don't judge somebody who disagrees and

chooses to make a different decision. Yeah, no, I mean, it's hard because the standard advice is like, first of all, be in a diversified 401k, whatever. And if you are like that probably means that you're invested in Amazon, etc. Right. So like, it 100% does. You're not avoiding Amazon if you're Yeah, if you're looking at performance, you're not avoiding Amazon. You're not. Right. So, you know, there's just no, it feels like there's no getting around it unless, of course, you want to, like, you know, just opt out or very specifically choose your stocks. But then again, like, that would mean that you're researching stocks all day. So, I don't know. Yeah. What do you indulge in financially?

Well, I did drive here in a Camaro, and that was fun. I'm renting a top-down Camaro. They gave me an option of a Camaro or a Mustang, and I chose wrong, let me tell you. But it's very fun because it brings me a lot of joy, and it's really fun. So I think the big things I indulge in are like travel and experiences. You know, I've been doing the digital nomad thing for a while and that's been really fun. And, you know, getting to live in different places and getting to experience life in different places has been the thing I indulge in. Tori Dunlap, this has been such a pleasure.

It's so fun talking to you. Thank you. Thank you for asking just really beautiful, thoughtful questions and holding space for me even when I didn't have an answer for you. And I just really appreciate it. Thank you. Other People's Pockets is written and hosted by me, Maya Lau. It's produced by me, along with Joy Sanford and Dan Gallucci. Production help by Angela Vang.

Our mix engineer is Dan Gallucci. Our executive producers are me, Maya Lau, along with Jane Marie and Dan Gallucci. A special thanks to being full-time self-employed. Other People's Pockets is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus, offering bonus content and ad-free listening across our network for $4.99 a month.

Look for the Pushkin Plus channel on Apple Podcasts or at pushkin.fm. To find more Pushkin Podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. You can sign up for Pushkin newsletters at pushkin.fm. That was a preview of the new podcast, Other People's Pockets, from Pushkin Industries and Little Everywhere. Thank you to Maya and her team for having me on. And if you loved this episode, make sure to listen to Other People's Pockets now, available wherever you get your podcasts. If you're listening on Spotify, we have this lovely new feature that Spotify released where you can ask questions, where you can submit poll results. You can decide if you like the episode

or not, if you want to see more, if you have any questions. So feel free to engage with us down below. We love to hear from you. And as always, we appreciate your support of this movement and the show. Can't wait to see you back here next week, Financial Feminists. Take care. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields, marketing and administration by Karina Patel, Sharice Wade, Alina Helzer, Paulina Isaac, Sophia Cohen, Valerie Oresko, Jack Koning, Khalil Dumas, Elizabeth McCumber, Beth Bowen, and Amanda LeFue. Research by Arielle Johnson, audio engineering by Austin Fields,

promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolf, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K team and community for supporting the show. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests, and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com or follow us on Instagram at financialfeministpodcast.