Financial Feminist - 85. How to Network (Without Feeling Icky) with Aleenah Ansari

Episode Date: April 25, 2023

If the word “networking” leaves you *screaming-crying-throwing-up* –– you’re not alone. Networking hasn’t always had a negative connotation, but in recent years, networking events just feel like brag fests and places to collect business cards that will probably end up in a shoebox in the back of your closet. But networking doesn’t have to be hundred people events or sliding into people’s DMs unsolicited –– when done well, it can establish powerful connections with industry leaders and mentors that can help set you on the best path to success in your career long-term. To talk about the power of authentic networking, we sat down with Aleenah Ansari to talk about how she used networking to help land a job in tech without the traditional background or experience. Tori and Aleenah walk through what works and doesn’t work when you’re trying to connect with others in your career and how you might be missing a key step to building lasting relationships. Learn more about Aleenah, read the episode transcript, and grab more resources at https://herfirst100k.com/start-here-financial-feminist-podcast Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Networking is actually really about building meaningful relationships and sustaining them over time. And that's always what I'm trying to do is when I'm meeting somebody new, usually my goal is not to get a job or an opportunity. It's actually to learn from that person, whether we are only talking for 30 minutes or we talk every week for the next five years like I have with some of my mentors. And if you're really rooted in learning from people and being curious about them and then following up further down the line, then you've truly built a relationship and that person can be an advocate for you and vice versa. Hello, financial feminists. Welcome back. If you're new to the show, or you just need a

refresher, I'm your host, Tori Dunlap, money expert, millionaire, and Timothee Chalamet obsessor. And I'm so excited that you're here. We are a show all about how money affects people differently, specifically women and other marginalized groups. So while we will talk to you about how to pay off debt and save money and start investing and get a job that compensates you fairly that you love, we're also going to talk about things that are a little sticky, and states you fairly that you love. We're also going to talk about things that are a little sticky, like abortion access and voting and gun rights and all of the things that are, I shouldn't say gun rights because gun control. We want gun control. Let's be clear. We can keep that. We want to be clear about what this is. So we're going to have nuanced conversations about

feminism and money because they go hand in hand. Money runs the world and I want you to be able to run both. A quick note if you are listening to this episode on release day or during release week, we are taking a little out of office as a team May 1st through 6th. We're trying this thing at Her First 100K where we're taking quarterly weeks off as a way to protect our team's energy and give them a little rest. So if you want episodes during that time, well, the cool news is that you got 90. 90! Crazy that I just said 90 episodes in the backlog. So if you listened to half and you didn't listen to all of them, if there's some that tickle your fancy, go back and listen to those while we're out. Today we are joined by Alina Ansari,

a friend of her first 100k. Alina is another Seattle native, and she actually interviewed me for my book tour, which was very fun at our Seattle stop, and she's interviewed me multiple times for the Seattle Times, which is so humbling. Alina is equal parts storyteller, creative problem solver, and journalist at heart, who's rooted in the stories of people behind products, companies, and initiatives. She writes about travel, entrepreneurship, mental health, and wellness and representation in media for Insider, The Seattle Times, Birdie, and more. You can usually find her searching for murals in Seattle and beyond, looking for her next read, and planning her next trip to New York. Girl, same.

Learn more at alinaarnsari.com. If you know anyone graduating this year, new grads, anyone that's just going through a career change, share this episode with them. This was incredibly impactful. Alina is fucking whip smart. She had great things to say. And she shares so many actionable pieces in this episode about how to network effectively and the common mistake you might be making that's making your networking just fall flat. How to impress the hell out of an interviewer when you might not meet all the requirements, and so much more. And if you did just hear the word networking and you're like, that sounds, that's vomit inducing, we're going to talk to you about why networking is actually really powerful and how it gets kind of a bad rep as

a weird word with a weird label. This is a truly packed episode. You want to pull out a notebook and take some notes. Let's go ahead and get into it. But first, a word from our sponsors. It's so good to see you. For people who aren't embased in Seattle, you were kind enough to facilitate and moderate our book kickoff event in Seattle, which was our largest book event that we did, which was very exciting. And then you were kind enough to interview me for Seattle Times. So I'm excited to have you. I would love for you to talk a bit about your background and sort of your non-traditional route into working tech. As I think back on my career, I feel like I was probably the last person to work in the tech industry. I'm really privileged that both of my parents are doctors, which I feel like it's not very common. They met, I don't even know, they met in Pakistan somewhere. They went to the same

medical school, and then they came to the U.S of New York, and then Chicago, and then made their way to Federal Way, Washington, which is a city south of Seattle. As you can probably imagine, I really thought that I would be a doctor, and I really didn't have any issues with that. I mean, I feel like health is the most intimate thing that you have. It informs our lives, it changes our lives, and I actually feel really lucky to have the parents that I do because they taught me how to advocate for myself in patient care settings and then later on in my career, in my life. But what really changed for me was actually when I got to college, I met somebody who was trying to be like super involved in everything. Like she had this whole plan to double major, double minor, and she was going to

be a part of the college newspaper. And so she said, Alina, like, please do this with me. I think it would be really fun. And I was like, oh, like, I don't really consider myself a writer, but maybe they'll have a photographer application. And so I filled out what I thought was the photographer application, but it was actually the journalist application. And so then they emailed me and they were like, hey, like, are you ready to be a journalist? We have like a four week crash course in journalism. And I was like, journalism, like, I'm supposed to be, I mean, I'm supposed to be a photographer. What do you mean? And I just kind of took it as a sign. And I ended up taking that entire crash course and actually falling in love with interview based writing, which is,

of course, how we met. So that was sort of like the first thing that changed my life. And arguably, I don't know who I would be without that experience. But I remember a few years later, kind of halfway through college, I had done all the biology. I did the chemistry. I took organic chemistry lab. Like there was like the final, you were given an unknown compound and you had six weeks to run tests to figure out what it was. Like, I didn't just say I was pre-med. I, I did it. Okay. Like I lived it. I went home and I talked to my parents about medicine. Like I was really there for the ride. way to make people's lives better, I felt like my gift was really getting in the room with people and understanding who they are through interviews, and then making their story more accessible through writing, which I had found out through journalism. So I was still a public health and biochem major, but I was making the transition to apply to human-centered design and engineering, which ended up being my major. And I remember in a random December, I was like, okay,

well, maybe I'll intern at tech this summer. Like, who knows? I logged onto the Microsoft website, and the only opening for an internship was a UX writing internship. And I was like, I'm a writer. Like, maybe I could do that. Like, writing, like, that's what I do, storytelling. And I remember reading one of the bullet points that was like, do you have empathy for people behind products? Do you love making complex things simple and advocating for users when they're not in the room? And I was like, yeah, I actually really feel that. Like, I didn't know that you could do that in tech, but if there's an opportunity, why not try it? So I ended up applying to that position, obviously thinking that nothing would happen. I

had no connections at Microsoft. I didn't even know where Microsoft was. I just knew it was nearby because I went to school in Seattle. And then randomly, two months later, a recruiter emailed me and said, hey, we really like your background. Like, it's cool that you're in public health, but we also really love your writing. You seem like somebody that would really add to Microsoft. Why don't you come in for an interview? And so literally that was like the first time I ever interviewed for big tech and it was Microsoft. I took the bus over. I got so lost. Like it's still the bus that I take to go to work. Even to this day, I ran around the whole campus. I was like, why are you giving me free food? Like, I'm just confused at this experience. I can't believe you're paying me.

Like none of the internships I've looked at can even pay me to live in Seattle for the summer. And crazy enough, the person that I interviewed with actually had worked at the Seattle Times before coming to Microsoft. And many of the people on his team were journalists that went into the tech industry because they wanted a change in career. So I think it was sort of this example of preparedness meeting opportunity where I had never planned to be in tech, but I had this skill and this love of making complex things simple and talking about people behind products and advocating for users that it just ended up being a place that I have been ever since. I interned that summer, I interned again, and continue to work full time in tech, not in a writing role anymore, but now as a marketer. And so I guess it's just

kind of a story of like following my gut, but also believing that I could learn some of the things that were new to me. But I could also lean on my strong skills as a storyteller and somebody who's very empathy based in the work that I do. So very nonlinear journey, for sure. I definitely wasn't, like, the most traditional candidate, but I felt like I found a place that valued my nonlinear journey and my skills. And I feel like the other half is also just putting yourself out for opportunities before you feel ready and being open to failure. Like, I'm failing, failing in the traditional sense all the time. Even now, as a freelance writer, I get failing in the traditional sense all the time. Even now, as a freelance writer, I get rejections in my inbox all the time. But that doesn't mean that

I won't keep trying for that next yes. It just happened that my first yes was a major tech company that many people dream about working for. Totally. You studied human-centered design. Can you talk more about that and how it helped you build out the framework for how you work with others? Yeah, it's a good question. So I remember I first discovered human-centered design and engineering at the University of Washington really early in my college career. And I found that it was like a home for many people who had been told that they had to pursue STEM in some capacity, but they still had this desire to be creative and create products and services for people and with people. And I think, honestly, fundamentally, all engineering should be human-centered, but not everybody puts it into the title. And that's why I've always loved that program, is I feel like they really have put people first in the way that

the program is run, but also in the classes that we take. So pretty much any time we would be doing anything, whether it was like researching a new service or coming up with a new prototype for an app, the central question was always, who are we designing for? What are the unintended consequences that we're not anticipating? And how can we build trust with the people we're designing for so that way they ultimately love this product and feel empowered by it. And I think that that is an approach that I've always taken to life. And probably one of the reasons they accepted me to the program is that a lot of times as a journalist, I'm really rooted in my curiosity of asking people questions versus making assumptions about who they are. And if you ask the right questions and you create trust, then you can unearth findings that

you've never imagined before. And that's how you tell a really great story. In my case, whenever I'm doing a Q&A or I'm writing a story, I'm always trying to tell the story otherwise untold. And part of that is asking a question deep enough that no other journalist may have asked that. And in the same way, if you're doing a user interview, how do you find that moment where you can really understand what a user needs that may be different than what you have anticipated or what your own bias is? So I think that approach is really, really free flowing and rooted in curiosity and enables you to create the most inclusive product services and experiences, which is definitely part of my mindset as a writer and a marketer too. Well, and as somebody who's been interviewed by you,

I would say that that's very accurate. I think you found really thoughtful questions to ask that maybe somebody else hadn't asked me before. And I love that approach. I think that is a question or a concern I hear from a lot of people is it's like, okay, tech is where the good money is, right? And where the good benefits are. But like, I am not an IT person, right? Or I feel more creative than that. And I think there is room that you can find at any company, especially, you know, companies that really value creative solutions and human-centric solutions. You can find those sort of opportunities for you if you are more like a right-brain kind of touchy-feely person rather than like a left-brain analytical person.

Yeah. And I feel like the industry has also really changed in this way as much as of course you need engineers and those are the roles that you see. You can't build a product without a marketing team, a content team, honestly, a legal and PR team to review things, a strategy team.

Like there's so many elements of what creates a product. It's not just those traditional IT or engineer roles. You really need everybody to create an inclusive product that your user, your consumer wants. Totally. Let's talk about networking. You talk about how important it is. And I think we sometimes hear the word networking and we're like, that is done in pencil skirts and stuffy suits by straight white men. And it's like, I very much credit like my version of networking to like setting myself up really well, especially as I was graduating college. And I think for you, you shared previously that like self reflection is step zero to networking and that you're setting

a goal to like attend at least one event a month. So talk to me a bit about that. What, month. So talk to me a bit about that. What is like networking, if you put it in quotes, in 2023? And how are you figuring out how to build a network yourself? Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting question, because even when I've talked to a lot of clients and mentees, when they hear the word networking, they always have an adverse reaction initially. And so I've kind of reframed networking to be about relationship building. And I find that that is so much more expansive and community driven. Because to me, networking is actually really about building meaningful relationships and sustaining them over time. And that's always what I'm trying to do is when I'm meeting somebody

new, usually my goal is not to get a job or an opportunity. It's actually to learn from that person, whether we are only talking for 30 minutes or we talk every week for the next five years like I have with some of my mentors. And if you're really rooted in learning from people and being curious about them and then following up further down the line, then you've truly built a relationship and that person can be an advocate for you and vice versa. And so now that I have that mindset, it's much easier to go into traditional networking situations because honestly, I just want to make friends. I want to learn and meet people that are in like my future dream job that inspire me. I want to share my own experiences. And that's way more fun than this traditional model of networking that you described. Like, I remember when I went to my first career fair, I had like dyed my hair pink, and I was wearing like a leather

mini skirt, and I had just gone back from study abroad. And I was like, yeah, this is me. Like, if a company doesn't want to work with me in my authentic form, then they don't want to work with me at all. I don't want to work with them. And I'm completely okay with that. A really good example of this that I recently saw is I went to this event by Asians in Advertising, and it was called Matchmaking. And they had these breakout sessions where you'd be able to talk to three to four other people. And we were asked to not only talk about our work, but one of the questions was, share your Asian American identities and why they're important to you. And I thought that was such a great question to hinge on relationship building. And even in that call, I shared like, I'm never asked to

share these things on a day-to-day basis, but why can't I share these pieces of myself and who I am? And so even in those conversations, I talked about something that I've been thinking through, which is what do I want to wear to my wedding as somebody who's Pakistani but lives in America? Do I want to wear like a more traditional South Asian Pakistani outfit? Do I want to wear to my wedding as somebody who's Pakistani but lives in America? Do I want to wear like a more traditional South Asian Pakistani outfit? Do I want to wear a Western outfit? Do I want to change? And I shared that in that call and people kind of gave me their own advice and the ways they thought about bridging their home culture with the culture of the place that they live.

And that to me are really like the conversations that I remember. It's those relationships when I feel like I was able to share myself holistically. And maybe those people will think of me for a future opportunity or ask me to write a story, but that's secondary to what I've learned about them and what I've been able to share. Yeah, I often tell the story about how, you know, I would show up, especially early in my career, feeling a little like a fish out of water in like Adidas and a leather jacket when everybody else had, you know, pencil skirts and the blazers and the suit jackets and i was like it actually i think was part of the reason i was able to be successful as people saw me as more approachable

and accessible uh and you know like their best friend or a sister rather than feeling like oh it's this person who like knows a lot about money as opposed to you know someone i could actually talk to. Where do you think people go wrong when it comes to networking? Yeah, I think the only way to really go wrong is to see networking as purely transactional. And I think the way to combat that is to really build that relationship over time. And there's honestly, like, you can do this in the moment by if you have a great conversation with someone, just sending a follow up note about what you'll remember about the conversation, or like, if you mentioned a book, send a link to it so they can check it out. For me, if I meet

people I really admire, I'll put their their birthday or even their work anniversary on my calendar. So I can follow up with them and say, Hey, I thought of you, I know put their birthday or even their work anniversary on my calendar so I can follow up with them and say, hey, I thought of you. I know it's been five years at this company, or I know that this thing launched, and I'm really proud of you, and I thought of you. And if you can sustain that relationship, then it does help with those more traditional pieces of networking, because that person may think of you if an opportunity opens up down the line, or if they want to bring you onto their team. But first, it's really being a genuine person. And I think I've seen that more as somebody who gets a lot solicited for a lot of connections is actually very few people do that follow-up.

Very few people spell my name right, look me up, send me a follow-up note after, tell me that they're thinking of me when I've launched a project that I mentioned. And those really small things make kind of those hundreds of people I've ever talked to start to stand out from the few people that I feel like are invested in me holistically and that I feel like I can and want to support. Yeah, I think we'll do an interview or a solo episode on the podcast about like informational interviews. But I would love to hear your insight on on that concept. It's what I did when I was networking, especially when I was a senior in college, I did an informational interview

every week until I graduated. And it was very much like reaching out to people I admired reaching out to people in potential industries I was interested in and just saying, Hey, do you have 15 minutes or a half hour, either to get coffee in person, it was much more like calls or, you know, zooms, and me just asking them questions. And was much more like calls or, you know, Zooms, and me just asking them questions. And it served the dual purpose for me of one, getting a lot of really good information about like, what potentially I wanted, what industry, especially me working in marketing, I was like, do I go to a like, marketing agency? Or do I try to do marketing in house? And then of course, the happy other conclusion is that you're on their radar, right? And if something opens up, you've hopefully made a good impression and you've managed

to build that connection. So can you talk to me about the informational interview? Has that been helpful for you? I imagine you're also getting asked to do informational interviews now. So what does that look like for you? Yeah, and it's interesting that you bring that up because I remember when I first got my internship in tech and I knew nothing about it. I talked to one of my human centered design and engineering professors. Like I walked up to her after class because I really admired

her. And I said, hey, I'm interning in big tech and I just really I'm having imposter syndrome. I don't know if I deserve to be there. I feel like I have a lot to learn, but I'm also really scared. And she's like, most of the job can be learned. That'll be fine. But what you need to do is three informational interviews a week for your 12-week internship. And I was like, three information? I was like, are you sure? And she was so adamant about it, and I really trusted her. And honestly, if she hadn't said that to me, I don't know what the course of my career would be now. And so once I kind of had that advice in mind, my North Star was, I wanted to meet somebody who is a storyteller for a living in tech. That was kind of the goal that I had. I wanted like my job title

to be storyteller. I had figured out how to be a writer, but I wanted something that felt more creative. And so a lot of my informational interviewing was meeting different people around the company. And then at the end, I would take advantage of what they call the snowball effect, where I would say, based on the things that I've shared and my desire to have a storytelling role in tech, who are two to three other people that I should talk to? And do you feel comfortable putting us in contact or giving me their email? And then I can start the conversation. email and then I can start the conversation. And I actually did that. I went all the way around my campus during the summer because everything was in person at that point. And I actually found somebody who was telling really, really cool multimedia interview-driven stories for a living. And I think at the end of our conversation, our very first one, I said to her, you are exactly who I want to be. And I would love to pitch myself to be an intern on your team if you feel like there is a budget and a need for that. And that person that I talked to actually advocated to get

the budget internally for a position to be made that I could interview for. And this was a really strategic move on my part because I knew at the company I worked for, if there was an internship, it would be backed by the funding to be converted full time no matter what. That's just how the company worked. And so I had basically secured myself a job after college for that internship if everything went well. And it did. And that's how I started at the company that I work for. So I think having a really clear goal is helpful.

It was like total game changer in my life. But I think what made me successful in those conversations, I think the most important thing that people miss is honestly doing your research about that person and having really, really clear targeted questions. And being a journalist actually helped a lot with this, because even now, as somebody who gets asked a lot of questions, many people will just come to me and say, like, how did you get to this company? Why do you like writing? How did you get started? like, how did you get to this company? Why do you like writing? How did you get started? And for me, like, sometimes I want to say, I've owned AlinaAnsari.com for the past eight years. And if you want to know how I got here, like, believe me, it's all there. I'm a writer. I've written

about my story. I would much rather be asked, like, kind of a level two question, which is, oh, like, you love writing so much. Why did you want to do it in tech specifically? Or why do you choose to do something different from writing in your day job but have a writing business? What is it like doing both of those things? Those kinds of questions I feel like are where I'm really able to be helpful and tell a story otherwise untold, and it's probably more interesting for the other person. So that mindset of, like, being a journalist has enabled me to ask really good questions and do research. And it's honestly, if you take 15 minutes to look at someone's LinkedIn, their social media, their website, especially if they're in tech, they probably have one, to ask some deeper questions or even ask about a certain project, a certain role,

a company, you'll probably get pretty far in impressing them. And honestly, if you end up working for that person, you'll have to do that level of research in your job someday. So if you can demonstrate that skill early, it really helps. The other thing that I found really helpful is to be really clear with your ask. So sometimes you may just be having a conversation out of curiosity, and I've definitely done those. But actually, to get the current job that I have, when I switched for my first full-time role, I met with my now manager probably a year and a half ago, and I told her really directly, I want to work under you. I believe in your leadership style. Tell me how I can start to prepare to be in a role under you in the next six to nine months. And I think being really clear

about my goals, but also where I was at was probably part of the reason that I got hired nine months later when I didn't even know another opening would come up and when we met again she was like okay Alina obviously I know who you are I know your background but obviously we need to still go through this interview but you know it's great to be reconnected with you we already have that context so if you can be clear up front about what you want to learn maybe what an ideal outcome would be, why you found that person, why you're interested in them, maybe you want to be mentored by them, saying that upfront can be really helpful, especially if this person is receiving a lot of really, really broad requests, and they can't take all of them. It helps to be given an ask that someone knows that they can take on. Yeah. First about questions, we had Danielle Robay, who's another journalist and a friend of mine on the show. And she literally talked about like the superpower of asking questions. And we'll link that episode. It's like, I think we titled it like how to be the most interesting person in the room, right? So it's perfect. Just trying to impress people at a dinner party, right? Asking really, really good, thoughtful questions, but also in an interviewer career context, I think it's incredibly powerful. And then to your point about really direct ask, the amount I can speak to, you know, the amount of emails in my inbox or on LinkedIn or on Instagram asking me a question.

One, 95% of questions have an answer that I've already put somewhere. So you're to your point. The biggest question we get is how do I start? There is literally a page called start here on our website. So like, I can tell if you haven't looked into anything, we can tell that we get literally like 1000s of submissions to our Facebook community. We curate those to make sure that you know, we send people the right materials and it like it exists. And there is something so refreshing about really good questions and also a very specific ask where you've done your research, you know what this

person's capable of, as opposed to just like, I need to rant and I need to tell you all of my problems or I need to like a very specific ask is really, really, really helpful, as opposed to like, help me do this, maybe not helpful. So yeah, I completely agree with everything you just said. One of the things that I talk about so much in terms of interviewing and building a career is the importance of storytelling. And even if you never work for yourself, you are your own brand and you are your own brand ambassador. And how you choose to communicate what you do, how you interact with people, you know, what your career story is, I would argue is your most powerful way to be in rooms you want to be in, to progress in your career, to advocate for both

yourself in and out of the workplace. Can we talk about how storytelling is you know that powerful piece in in your career and what does it look like at your current job what does it look like then outside of work yeah i mean for me storytelling has been part and parcel to being able to do the work that i do i think early on in my career it was about honestly really authentic storytelling about even the gaps that I had had in my desire to learn. Like when I first interviewed my first interview for that internship, I actually told my manager at the time who became my manager, that whole nonlinear career journey of how my parents were doctors, how I was making the switch to do writing, how I really believed in it. And if I hadn't told that story of how I was a non-traditional candidate, but I still felt like I had something valuable to say, I'm not sure I would have gotten the role at all. Because if I think about it, I may have sounded like everybody else who interviewed for the job that day. But I was able to connect really specifically with my manager, who I found out was an editor at the Seattle Times, a place

that I now freelance for, that we knew some of the same people. Without me going into all of that, we would have never really connected on this more human level. And that's something I keep in mind. It's like, of course, you want to be somebody that can do the work, but you also want to be somebody that can demonstrate curiosity and interest in the other person's work, that you can learn and ask really good questions. I find that the questions that I ask at the end of the interview, honestly, are as important as the stories that I tell about myself during the interview. So all those pieces are really important. And so when you're kind of crafting your career story, what I tell my mentees and my clients is there's an impulse to really focus on just the job title that you want. And that can only get you

so far. And so what I tell people is, tell a really great story about how you solve problems and the perspective that you bring to the table. So when I'm in interviews, I don't just say like, hey, I'm a writer and I want to take on this marketing role and I have like three years of experience. I'll say like, and what I said when I transitioned from like a writing role to a marketing role is I've been doing marketing my entire career. When I am doing research about potential angles and interviewing somebody, that's a competitive analysis or a user analysis. When I'm thinking about the right keywords to put into a title and description, that's search engine optimization. And I feel ready to continue to apply the skills I've always been using in this new context and to use the language behind them. And I feel really excited by this company's mission because XYZ, I believe, empowering

every person on the planet. And I do that on a small scale for this newspaper. And now I want to do it for your global company. And in that way, I'm able to tell this person not just what I do, because they probably know that from my resume, I want to tell them the how and the why. And for me, it's always been the what motivates me. The reason why I'm a writer in the first place is because I feel like there are stories otherwise untold. And for me growing up, I didn't feel seen as a queer Pakistani woman in the stories that I read. And so now for me, it's really important to tell stories that inspire people, that make them curious and want to learn more, but also that they feel represented in the subject matter experts that I bring in. I remember when I was a journalist, I learned that 70% of sources are white men, pretty much predominantly.

And that shocked me because most of my sources were women of color, people of color, non-binary folks. And that to me was the default. That was the bare minimum that I could do for any story, not just a story about diversity and inclusion, but really framing people as experts who often told me, we've never been invited by this newspaper to share our story. And these experts were always here, they just weren't being sought out. And so that is also a part of my story is to amplify the work of others who are not always invited into the conversation. But now that I'm in a position to advocate for them, I bring them into the writing that I do, so their work can shine and

be seen in the ways that it deserves to. Which is so, so powerful. I need everybody listening to go back about two minutes. You gave about 10, let's say tens of thousands of dollars in career coaching, just in how you answered that hypothetical question of like, I literally, it's like you and I did a little mind meld. I have an entire workshop that again, we'll link in the show notes called how to land the job when you don't meet the requirements. And it's literally this idea of taking the bullet points from the job description of the job you're trying to do and think, oh, I already have these skills, right? How do I just bridge them into the job I want? We talked about this as well in the book, Financial Feminist of like, okay, you take the things that you do have, skills are teachable,

right? Or like programs are teachable. And instead we show, actually, we do already know how to do this. It just might not be like a direct one for one thing. You're just learning how to bridge those skills into the career, into the job that you're applying for. So go back and listen to that. You did, that was just perfect. That was like a perfect representation of exactly how to impress in an interview, especially if you're like, I don't know if I have all the experience I need. Like, you probably do. You just need to know how to, again, tell your story in the interview. Yeah.

And I mean, if you meet 100% of the qualifications, you're definitely overqualified. Nobody should be able to do 100% of things in a job description. Then there's nothing to learn or to grow. Yeah, totally. And I mean, we all know the stat, I think, I think it's 40%. If you have men meet 40% of the job qualifications, they will apply. We as women, I think it's like 95% or 100%. We will not apply unless we meet all of them. So start applying for jobs that you don't necessarily meet all the qualifications. And then yeah, learn how to tell your story beautifully in an interview. Yeah. And then I just have like an interesting example related to that. I have a I remember it when I was in college, I had a friend who actually

applied to a job, like we were in human centered design and engineering, and she applied for a developer role because she thought she had a better chance. And she actually didn't make it through, but she still tried. And then the recruiter reached out to her and said, oh, your background is actually much more suited for our user-centered design position. I'll send your resume over there and you can interview for that role. And she actually ended up getting it. So if you're able to even put yourself out there and even better connect with directly with a hiring manager or recruiter, there may be a role that you're not even seeing or you haven't thought of that's a good fit too. But if you don't make that initial contact and that effort, then you'll never be found for an opportunity that could be more right. What is one thing that somebody could do today

or maybe in this next week to help them start writing or telling their career story? That's a good question. What I usually have my mentees and my colleagues do is write out what I call core stories. So they're sort of these really great examples of like things that you've accomplished in your career. Because another common pitfall that I see is that people focus on job responsibilities and not job accomplishments. And everybody can do the job responsibilities. You can write the stories, you can create the campaign, but success is really thinking about the reach of those campaigns, maybe charting higher in SEO, maybe it's landing a big global moment and beating out your competitors. And so you probably have those really great stories of success.

So start to document them on a pretty regular basis. You could even put like a calendar blocker on your calendar every two weeks or every quarter, whatever makes sense for you. And start to write down those wins, because if you don't write them down in the moment, you'll start to lose track of them. And then craft these really great stories that you can leverage in an interview. And if you need a framework, the STAR method is pretty common for this. It's situation, task, action, result. And result is really where those accomplishment pieces can shine.

But another piece that I think people forget about when they're interviewing is you do the STAR method, but you always want to connect it back to the role or the company. So you're not just telling the story of this moment that you did in the past. You want to bridge the gap and say, and this is how I would apply that thinking, that mindset to this company. And so what people don't realize is oftentimes the companies that you apply for, they have blogs, they have company values, they have public facing about sections. And so if you can connect the work that you're doing and use some of the language of those

values, you can bring up their mission statement and how your work exemplifies that, you're making it so easy for that recruiter or hiring manager to say, this person gets us, right? They didn't just do this work in the past. They see how that's part and parcel to how we run our business every day. So don't forget about that piece when you're interviewing. Take those core stories that you know like the back of your hand, but then start to connect them and think, how would I apply that for this new role, especially if you're navigating a career transition?

For our younger audience who might be thinking, I don't have any experience to talk about. I don't know what my story is. I'm just trying to figure out how to get my first job out of college. What does telling a compelling career story look like for them? And how do they overcome the mindset block of like, I don't have anything to talk about. I have no experience. Yeah, I mean, I think step zero is, is to sort of question that mindset to think, why do I think I don't have any relevant experience when I've done something, right? I've had jobs, I've done school projects, I've collaborated with others, everybody has built something in their life, we all have, whether we've meant to or not,

whether we identify as entrepreneurs or builders or tinkerers. And so I feel like the first step is to believe that you have an important perspective and to find those stories where they do exist in your life. So I remember in my first year of college, many people drew on the projects that we did in class because that made sense. Other times, people would just create their own. Like, I know somebody who thought, I feel like the playlist creating experience for Spotify isn't that intuitive, so I'll redesign it myself. I'll interview people in my life because I think this is interesting, and then I'll write a medium case study and propose my own recommendations. And nobody is asking some, and whenever you're interviewing, nobody's saying,

where did you do this? Is it a valid context? They just want to see that you've done the work. And actually, I think examples like that are really powerful because you're taking the initiative on yourself to solve an interesting problem. And I've seen people do this and tweet it at companies and get interviews there because the companies are excited by these new ideas and initiatives. And another good example that comes to mind is many people in UX design, which is what I studied, would do 30-day design challenges. There's also 30-day writing challenges. There's marketing challenges. And they'll put it on their portfolio or their website. And when I had that on my portfolio, almost every recruiter asked me about it because it was different than everything else. They would say, like, tell me why you did this design challenge, right? It's so different than

everything else you do. And that's a great opportunity to say, I took the initiative to learn design and I wanted to try many different contexts at once and see what stuck to me. One day I'm redesigning the checkout experience at a grocery store, and tomorrow I'm creating a mobile app to get Taylor Swift tickets, right? Like, that really fast ideation can create so much great conversation about your process and how you approach things. So the first step is believing that your work and your perspective matters, but then it's also doing the work in whatever context makes sense and then reflecting on it in whatever place makes sense. It could be a portfolio. I've mentioned Medium. That's a place you can self-publish case studies. Or even just like you could create a social media account where you put your design or writing or marketing projects. Whatever you do, you just want to have a place where people can learn more about your work and that final product as well as the process. Yeah, I joke that the first round of her first 100k was me running Pentatonix tumblers. I was a Pentatonix like

crazy. They call them Pentaholics. So I was a Pentatonix super fan and I ran fan blogs for them on Tumblr. And that was like my first iteration of like, you know, managing content, putting out content, marketing, all of that fun stuff and growing a community. Like that was, yeah, that was my first iteration of that sophomore year of college. And then in terms of more like more practical experience or like, you know, more considered professional experience, I was the editor in chief of our yearbook. So I had literally something physical to present at meetings. I was like, I managed a staff of 12, you know, it was photos and editorial and, and, and graphics and the design of the book. And like, we got it done on time. And I was the first person to get

it done on time in five years. And so like, there was a, you know, a compelling story there, even if it was, you know, you could look at and be like, Oh, it's a college yearbook. And And so like, there was a, you know, a compelling story there, even if it was, you know, you could look at and be like, oh, it's a college yearbook. And it's like, yeah, it's a published product. It's a published book. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting that you say that, because I remember even when I was interviewing, like, a thing that I did in college for, I think, three of the five years I went was I worked at my college's writing center. I actually worked at two different ones. One was like a morning one, and then one was open seven to midnight. So this was like a huge part of my life. And I think like one of the interviews I walked into when I was in tech is she had my

resume on the table, and she pointed at my writing center experience. And she said, I want to hear more about this. And that was her very first question, nothing about my like Center for Neurotechnology Research, my writing samples. Like, she wanted to hear about me at the Writing Center and why that mattered to me. And that was a really great place for me to talk about these, like, empathy-driven, one-on-one conversations and then connecting that to the way that we learn about customer needs by building trust and creating space for them to tell us what they need. So yeah, those non-linear, those non-traditional experiences honestly are the most interesting because they're different from what everybody else has. And that's

where you can tell some of the best stories. Yeah. What do people miss when they tell their stories? What do they not think about or what do they forget about? Hmm, that's an interesting question. I think the biggest one is still the, is that they don't highlight their accomplishments or they don't talk about them verbally. They only talk about what they did. And I think another common pitfall is using a lot of we language, like saying, referring to your team. So we all created this product, we created this campaign. It's really important in an interview to be able to name the part that you had the most responsibility for. So even like if you're doing that reflection early on, if you had to give yourself like a title, a descriptive title, what would be your

particular role of the project? And how can you tell the story of that? Because if you say we the whole time, even when it's you, your hiring manager or recruiter may assume that you didn't actually do all of that work when what you're describing is something that you're responsible for. So that ownership is really, really important. And then also getting metrics whenever you can about the impact. I know a lot of people will say like, Alina, I don't know where to get the metrics. Like we don't have any data. We didn't measure it. And so this is a good example to say, maybe start measuring things like from here on out, ask your managers or your recruiters or even people you work with, like what does success look like and how can we measure that in tangible and non-tangible ways? So whenever I'm presenting

on impact, usually I'll bring in data about like performance, views, reading rate, engagement, but I'll also usually bring up some kind of like customer or stakeholder verbatim. For example, I told a really interesting story about my company's first underwater data center. We were one of the first companies to ever do this. It made a really big splash. Our CEO retweeted the story. And so I had a lot of great metrics about the reach. But the best part to me was actually someone reaching out to me directly and saying, because I had had somebody who was like an expert who was a person of color in the story. And they said, seeing that person quoted in the story of innovation makes me feel like I could work at this company. And that's not something I never thought possible before. It's really inspired me

to think about this field, but also see myself in it. And for me, that piece of moving the needle on culture was just as important as telling this really innovative story that so many people resonated with. And I like to present both of those pieces in interviews. And I think that works really well because oftentimes we want our stories and our work to succeed in terms of metrics, but we also care about the people who interact with them and see them and work with what we do. And so if you can tell that double-pronged story, then you'll be much better off than somebody who just tells a story of what happened without highlighting who you are or what happened to it after you were done with it. Yeah, one of the examples I give in my book when we're talking about like negotiating

salary, we've spent a whole chapter, you know, talking about, as you know, the earning, you know, negotiating your worth, trying to figure out, you know, how do I find a position that compensates me fairly? negotiating your worth, trying to figure out, you know, how do I find a position that compensates me fairly? One of the examples I gave in my negotiation for my last job, yes, I had marketing metrics, I had performance based metrics, I had all of that. I also instituted a gratitude practice, we were a tiny little startup. And one of the things I kept hearing from leadership and from team members was like, I feel disconnected from people, sometimes it doesn't feel like my work is being seen by other people. Like I want to foster a sense of community at the company. And so

at the beginning of every week, we would say one thing we're personally grateful for and one thing we're professionally grateful for. And it was a great way of acknowledging team development and like starting to have people interact with each other and acknowledge each other for the work they've done. And it was part of the reason I got a raise was it wasn't just my professional like metric accomplishments or my metric contributions. It was also, oh, she's a great part of this company culture. She's fun to have around. She gets our value. She's improving life at work. And so I think it's a great, it's a great point of, you know, there's, there's very much the numbers and the quantity metrics, but there's also the quality or more company culture metrics too.

Speaking of career stories, I would love to know what's the next chapter for you? What is the next phase? Is it more writing? Is it tech? Is it something in the middle? What does that look like for you? Yeah, you know, I think as surprising as it it may seem i feel like i don't actually have a long-term career plan because if i did i wouldn't be where i am now i love that though i love it

you know it's kind of liberating yeah i mean if you had asked me pretty much any amount of years before now if i would be a marketer at a large tech company with the freelance writing and speaking business, being engaged and getting married in Hawaii, owning a condo at 26. Like, I don't think any of that was really what I expected. And so I feel like what I really care about is just creating opportunities to keep bridging creativity and strategy and telling stories that matter. As long as I'm doing that, which is what I've tried to do my entire career, the short amount that my career has existed,

then I feel like I'm winning. So I'm okay with whatever that looks like. But the only thing that matters to me is that I'm still telling stories, but those stories can exist in a number of forms, and I would still be happy. I love that answer, Alina, truly. Thank you for being here. Thank you for your work. Where can people find you? Sure. So the benefit of my name is it's really easy to find. I have great SEO because no one spells it like me. So if you go to alinansari.com, you'll find me there. I'm also Alina Ansari on Instagram, on Twitter, on LinkedIn. I'm on most social media. I love the internet. Okay, I spend a lot of time there. So if you find me there, if you want to connect, I love hearing a really good opening question. Clearly, I ask a lot of questions in my day to day life. But if you have an interesting question

to ask me or to share your answer to, I'm open to that since those are the things that I feel like I write about. They inspire my next story or idea. So open to your curiosity and questions that you may have. I love it. Thank you. This was such a valuable episode. We appreciate you being here. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much to Alina for joining us for this episode. You can find her on our social media, and you can also check out some of her articles on platforms like Birdie, the Seattle Times, InStyle, and more. We've linked all of that in the show notes.

If you liked this episode, don't forget to subscribe on your preferred podcasting platform. Leave us a review if you're feeling like it. It really helps us. And if you are the person that's going through a career change right now, if you are a new grad or you're just trying to leverage your skill set into a job that feels outside of your scope, or maybe you don't meet all the requirements, we have an entire free workshop literally called How to Land the Job When You Don't meet the requirements. It is completely free taught by me. We'll link it down below. It's all about how to leverage yourself, how to stand out in interviews, and also how to tell your career story. So great follow-up resource for that if you want to take things a step further. Thank you as always for being here. Thank you for supporting our mission and movement, and we'll see you soon. Thank you for listening to Financial

Feminist, a Her First 100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields, marketing and administration by Kareena Patel, Sharice Wade, Alina Helzer, Paulina Isaac, Sophia Cohen, Khalil Dumas, Elizabeth McCumber, Beth Bowen, and Amanda LeFue. Research by Arielle Johnson, audio engineering by Austin Fields, promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolf, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K team and community for supporting the show. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests, and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com or follow us on Instagram at financialfeministpodcast.com or follow us on Instagram at financialfeministpodcast.