Finding Peak w/ Ryan Hanley - Alan Stein Jr Explains the Unique Traits of High Performers

Episode Date: January 23, 2020

Spartan philosophy, built in the black-ops lab of business: https://www.findingpeak.comFinding Peak podcast: https://linktr.ee/ryan_hanleyAlan Stein Jr has coached some of the highest performing college and NBA basketball players in the game and joins the podcast to examine the unique traits of high performers. Get more: https://ryanhanley.com--Recommended Tools for GrowthOpusClip: #1 AI video clipping and editing tool: https://link.ryanhanley.com/opusRiverside: HD Podcast & Video Software | Free Recording & Editing: https://link.ryanhanley.com/riversideWhisperFlow: Never waste time typing on your keyboard again: https://link.ryanhanley.com/whisperflowCaptionsApp: One app for all your social media video creation: https://link.ryanhanley.com/captionsappGoHighLevel: It's time to take your business workflow to the Next Level: https://link.ryanhanley.com/gohighlevelPerspective.co: The #1 funnel builder for lead generation: https://link.ryanhanley.com/perspective--Episodes You Might Enjoy:From $2 Million Loss to World-Class Entrepreneur: https://lnk.to/delkFrom One Man Shop to $200M in Revenue: https://lnk.to/tommymelloIs Psilocybin the Gateway to Self-Mastery? https://lnk.to/80upZ9This show is part of the Unplugged Studios Network — the infrastructure layer for serious creators. 👉 Learn more at https://unpluggedstudios.fm.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Happy holidays. Want to give your host a gift? Consider subscribing, rating, and reviewing the show this holiday season. It really helps the show grow. From all of us at believe, have a Merry Christmas, everyone, and a happy holiday. All of everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Ryan Hanley show. And today we have a pretty epic episode for you. We're joined by Alan Stein Jr., who is a professional performance coach, a speaker, has trained some, of the biggest names in the NBA in college, worked at one of the most prestigious kind of NBA factory high schools, Dematha High School down in Washington, D.C. And he's now a speaker who takes the lessons that he learned from training Kobe Bryant and LeBron James and Kevin Durant and

applies them to the corporate world through speaking and workshops and that kind of stuff. Alan is an absolute treasure. He's dynamic. We get into all kinds of topics that are applicable to your life and to your business. It is a real treat that we're able to have Alan on the show. And I hope you'll give Alan your time and attention because you will not be disappointed. Before we get to Alan, though, we got to pay the bills with the fine sponsors that make this show possible. This is a commercial enterprise. This takes work. It takes work. It takes. capital to make this podcast happen so that it's free for you. And in order to do that, we need sponsors. And we have two tremendous sponsors today. The first is Tarmica. Tarmica is the rating platform, commercial lines, maybe personal lines in the near future. We'll see. Wink, wink,

nod, nod. But Tarmica is kind of taking over our space from a commercial lines rating perspective. Their technology is wide open. It's fast. It's built by insurance agents for insurance agents. This is true indie technology, indie tech, as Seth Zerimba would say. And Tarmica, T-A-R-M-I-K-A-com, T-R-M-I-K-A dot com should be on your radar. I know changing raters can be a hassle and I'm not asking you to do that today, but absolutely put Tarmica on your radar. and keep your eye on it. And if there is a need, or you do start to feel pain and you're looking for something new or you want to give a new tool a try, Tarmica is the Raider, is the storefront platform

that I would take a look at. And we thank them for being a sponsor of the show. Our second sponsor are the fine, fine people at Advisory Evolve. Advisory Evolved makes tremendous insurance agency focused websites. But websites kind of does them a disservice. Advisory evolved creates tools for your business, new business generation tools, retention tools. It's so much more than just a website than just some pretty pictures and words on the internet and at a ridiculously, ridiculously reasonable rate for tremendous service, the look, the feel,

advisor evolved will be the website will be the provider for rogue risk my agency and if you're looking for a website i highly recommend that you give advisor evolved to try go to evisoryevolved dot com that's evisor evolved dot com and uh and take a look i recommend that you do tremendous tremendous websites um with that guys appreciate you sticking with me because alinstein juniors about to blow mind. Here we go. So when I first came across you in particular, it was in the speak and spill Facebook group, right, which is my absolute favorite place. And there are days when I'm like, how did I even get invited into this group? Like the people are just so smart and driven and, you know, supportive and fun. And I saw some of the things you're doing and I checked out your

Twitter and I just see like, I see these professional athletes. and I see what you're talking about. And I'm like, this dude lives like the coolest life in the freaking world. He's hanging out like the coolest people. Like give me, give everyone listening at home like just if they're not familiar and we're going to get into all this stuff.

But like just a little bit of background on kind of where you've come from, kind of how you've gotten and where you are today. Sure. Well, the only reason I'm going to go back to the beginning is for context. But yeah, I fell in love with the game of basketball at probably four or five years old. And I bring that up because at the time of this recording,

I'm going to turn 44 in a couple of days. And I'm so thankful that four decades after I found my first passion, it's still a major staple in my life. And I'm thankful to have, I consider myself incredibly grateful and fortunate to have lived the life around my passion for the game of basketball. And even though my actual vocation has changed a few different times, you know, I spent 20 years really on the court as a basketball performance coach, working with some elite level players and learning from some elite level coaches. And then three years ago, I decided to leave the court and get onto stages and into boardrooms and share my message with folks in the corporate world, but share all of the lessons that I've learned through the game of basketball. So even though I'm not in the training space anymore, I'm still very in touch with the game and I'm still talking about all of the lessons and principles and strategies, mindsets and rituals and routines that elite basketball players use to perform at a high level. and then I teach folks in their respective businesses how to apply those same lessons. So basketball is still a major part of who I am and what I do.

And I'm so thankful for that. Yeah, that's tremendous. I was actually a high school basketball referee for 12 years. Oh, nice. So I saw the game as a player in high school. I played college baseball because I wasn't a good enough basketball player to keep going on with basketball. But then I went back to it because I love the game so much. I love the way it moves as a ref and did that for 12 years.

and now I coach my kids. So I, not to the level that you do, but I share your passion for this, for the sport. I think it's tremendous. Well, I tell you what, and I say this with all due respect, if you were a referee for 12 years, you have to have a passion for basketball

and or a passion for helping young people because you want to talk about a thankless job. I mean, you know, one broad stroke of advice to almost every coach or parent listening is just leave the referees alone. They're doing the best they can with the same. skills they have. They're there to help give your child or your player the best experience. So yeah, if you did that for 12 years, then I know you love the game. Yeah. You know, it's funny. A couple

on refs, this is what I always tell because people, when they find that out, they usually say, well, you know, everyone's got these misconceptions. I don't even want to say misconceptions. So one, every ref has a different skill set, just like every player, right? Like that's one of the things is I feel like just because you all wear the same striped shirt, everyone shows up and goes, well, that guy is just as good as that guy. And that's often not the case. And that's often not the case you can often have on a game, especially at the high school level, but in the college level as well, because I went to a lot of D1 camps and stuff like that. And I just ended up having kids and couldn't do that life, even though I wanted to. You have guys on the court that could be very drastically

different experience and talent levels, even though they're in the same game. And the other side is, refs absolutely positively have a bias. They always do. Because they're human beings. Because they're human beings, right? Yeah, exactly. That's one of the things that I've never understood is that like, even if it's unconscious, if I'm standing there and you are just harassing the shit out of me and something happens, I'm, it's, it's even if I am trying to be, and I always tried to be as, you know, you try to be as unbiased and professional and honest as you can, you can't help, but like pay a little more attention to that kid who's always, you know, kind of talking back to you is always kind of doing some dirty things.

Like, you can't help it. And that's what I've always understood. Like, you're putting yourself on my radar, which is like the last place that you want to be, which is probably a good life lesson. Like, just don't mess with people. But yeah, it was a very interesting experience, man. I loved that game.

And I'm sure for the same reasons that you were in as long as you were, like, the kids are just phenomenal. And even as they get older, you know, college kids, they're just awesome. They're just so much fun to be around. Absolutely. You know, I love that you brought that up because that's an, you know, I've never been a referee. So I've got the playing and the coaching and even the parenting vantage point. But I love that you brought that up. But even I have the empathy and humility and compassion to acknowledge that referees are human beings.

Yeah, for sure. Why would it not register to a coach that if I'm going to give you a hard time and belly aching complain over every missed call, that's eventually going to work against me. On some level, you're going to, you're going to not want to give me that 50, 50, 50, call or do something in my favor. And same thing with players. You know, why, why do players and coaches expect referees to be perfect when neither one of them are even close to perfect? It's like, you know, a player yelling that you missed a call. Yeah, I might have missed that one. You've also missed your last four shots and I had nothing to do with that. And they were wide open layups. So I wasn't yelling at you for missing shots. Why are you yelling at me? Because I happened to miss a call. And, you know,

what I'm really fascinated by, especially watching the NBA where, I mean, those referees, are phenomenal. Yeah, yeah. No, they are. Watching in real time and you're like, oh, he missed that. And they go back and they show the replay. And the referee was usually right about 98% of the time. And you're like, oh my gosh, he nailed that in real time with the biggest, fastest, strongest players in the world. And he still got it right. It's really remarkable. So those, those refs, um, they operate in flow at a level that I don't think people like people look at like, you know, know, at the, you know, LeBron or whoever, and they're like, oh, he's in flow. And what they don't understand is those refs to, to be in that moment and make those calls the way that they do,

you have to be able to drop into a flow state or otherwise. There's absolutely no way you can keep up with that game. Like, you just couldn't do it. It's happening so fast that, you know, going from, like, even going to like Division I college basketball camps and refting those camps and just the step up from a really good high school game to the college game, it's light years, it's logarithmic in terms of its pace. And then to go to the NBA, like they are in a different state of mind. That game is happening in their head so much slower than it is that if you or I were standing there.

And obviously it's the same for a really good player as well. But that's happening for those refs. Now, for most high school refs, that's not the case. Those guys oftentimes are like, well, I have no idea. But yeah, no, it's interesting. It was interesting seeing the game, having played it for so long in high school, coming back after college and seeing the game in really any sport, but seeing the game from that side, it's a really interesting vantage point that I almost wish.

It would almost be a good exercise for coaches in particular to spend some amount of time earlier in their career, I think, because one, you learn intricacies about the game that you can't see from the sidelines. You know, you're able to stand in positions on the court and see angles of plays that when you're, you know, when you're in the coach's box, you actually don't have that vantage point and just the visual would be positive for them. Oh, man. Well, anyone listening, I hope you just take back and hit rewind for a second and listen to what Ryan just said, because that was laced with so much gold and so many things to unpack that, that I'm, I'm sure, we're steering a little bit off course of what was intended,

but I think this is going to be very valuable. There's a couple things that just struck a nerve with me in a great way. One is all of us should be looking to step outside of our direct craft and what we do to learn other things. I absolutely think it should be mandatory for all coaches to take referee seminars or even to referee summer league games to give them some empathy and some compassion for when they're going to deal with referees in the winter. Speaking of outside the box, you know, I'm a full-time professional speaker. And I do watch other speakers because I want to get good at my craft. But I spend more time

watching. And I love hip hop and I love stand-up comedy. I love those two art forms. But I watch and devour so much of that stuff because I believe both of those art forms have something they can teach me to become a better professional speaker, whether it's the physicality of it or varying my tone and inflection. And I mean, there's just something about both of those forms of spoken word that while I'll never be a hip hop artist and I'll certainly never be a stand-up comedian I can learn from. And I think anyone listening to this, if you only study and look inside your very narrow world of what you do, you're missing opportunities to grow and develop. You said something else that was, I'm sorry, there's.

No, no, keep going. Keep going. So profound was it's easy when you watch NBA players. They make it look so easy what they do because they're so gifted and talented that we don't appreciate the pace at which they move, how explosive they are, even how big they are. I mean, if you watch NBA games on TV and you look at a guard and you're like, yeah, he looks like a little guy, that little guy's probably six, four, 210 pounds. Now on TV, he looks little because he's next to some Goliaths, but it's all relative. So the fact that most referees are of normal human

stature like you and I are, and the fact that they're able to run up and down the court, with guys that are six foot eight, 260 pounds with no body fat that move like a freight train for 48 minutes and to always have themselves in position to at least make a call is absolutely extraordinary. And we forget that. And then the last thing I'll say is I would hope that a referee's number one goal is, as you mentioned, everyone's going to be biased, but you do your best to remain unbiased and that you do your you do the best you can to be in the right place to have the right angle to make the right call now whether or not you make the right call is a different story but you should have enough hustle and a good enough attitude that you're just trying to be in the

right place at the right time to do the right thing and I think that's a lesson for all of us if all of us would concern ourselves with our own effort and our own attitude and trying to make sure that we're in the right place at the right time to do the right thing for the right person most times things will work out favorably for yourself. And so I think with that referee analogy, you just unpack the tremendous amount of gold that everyone should be able to learn from. See, guys, I do know what I'm talking about.

Just listen to out. No, I'll tell you, I wrote this post a long time ago when I first stopped reffing. There were a bunch of lessons that I learned from reffing, but there were two things in particular that I've carried with me. Now, I guess I've been out of it for five years because my son is six. So yeah, I've been out of refereeing for five years.

The two most important lessons that I took away were one emotional control and how important emotional control is in hectic situations in particular because one of the things that a good mentor in the refereeing space will teach you is that as the crowd and the players and the coaches go up, you have to push yourself down. You have to become more controlled because the, the, the, um, what's, what's going to happen is you can't add to the hecticness of that environment. Like you have to be the anchor for that. Because when, you know, you get a good, you get a,

a steel breakaway hammer dunk at home. The place is going to be going bananas. And what you can't do is allow your heart rate to elevate to match that situation. You have to be able to control your emotions and, and you don't want to swallow them, but you want to own them. That was, really the best advice that was ever given to me because it's not like you can you know you're not a zen master you're not like you know bringing your heart rate down but but owning the fact that you have control over how you react to that situation that was one love that second thing was uh if you referee the game by the book you will get eaten alive so you have to know how to do it you have to know that on a drive to the hoop you sidestep in and you step back

so that you have a sharper angle, but more breath, right? I mean, that's the standard move when you see someone drive to the hoop than a ref will make. Except what if the guys, what if, what if a secondary defender comes in or a guard drops in and is now going to try to take a backdoor charge? Or what if the guy goes past the standard layup and now he's going to go do an up and under? Where do you play that? So you could be upside down, twisted on the side. And for those watching on YouTube, I'm acting, you know, it looks.

Crazy. But like, you know, at the end of the day, all that matters is you get the angle. So it's like, you have to know the rules or know the guidelines or know what you're supposed to do and then be able to break off of that to get what actually has to be done. And I think the lesson that I took from that is the only way to know which rules to bend and or break is to know what the rules are and be good at them in the first place. Wow. Well, if I'm hearing you correctly, here's how I process that. You're saying referee is both, refereeing is both an art and a science, that you have to have the science of knowing specifically what the rules are and best practices, excuse me, but there is an art to being able to look at those nuances and to adapt and be

flexible because what's going on in any specific game situation might call for something else. And I think that's a brilliant way to put it. And it's true in coaching. It's true in any area of our life. You're always going to have kind of the best practices and the science behind it. But then you have to be adaptive and reflective to be able to change. You know, it's same thing in coaching. There are some standard best practices of what one should do to be a basketball coach.

But then there's also an art and there's a feel to it. And I think the best referees are the ones who kind of have a feel for the game and a flow. And they're consistent in what they do. So maybe you're going to allow both teams to play a little bit more physically than someone else would prefer, but you're going to allow that level of physicality throughout the whole game. You know, you're not going to call hand checking really tight in the first quarter and then just let it completely go away for the second quarter. So there's a consistency to that. And all of these things you're bringing up are tenants of high performance. To be a high performer in any area of life, you have to understand both the art and the science and where they blend together. And all of these things, I hope also give higher empathy and compassion to how hard these different areas are. It's one of the things when I'm working with businesses that I say all the time. Lots of times a business, they've got their different silos. You've got your sales folks.

You've got your leadership team. You've got people maybe in R&D. You've got the front desk manager. And everyone just stays so narrow into what they do. They forget to have empathy and compassion for the other silos, which everyone has to blend together in order for the game or the business to say. succeed. And that's why we say all the time, you know, players should play, coaches should coach, officials should officiate, and parents should just sit there and be supportive. As soon as anyone

tries to do someone else's job, then we have a problem. And of all of those groups, the referees are usually the ones that do the best job of just doing their job. You never see a referee trying to tell a player what they should be doing with their footwork, or you never see a referee, you know, insert themselves in the huddle and call a new play. They do. You know, you know, they do. You know, their job. But how many times do we see coaches trying to officiate as well or parents in the stands they're trying to coach? Everyone just needs to stand their lane, do their job and have a strong appreciation and respect for the other three pillars. Yeah. The coaches, I'll be honest with me though, as much as as as much as refs get a lot of like garbage flung at them, coaches have it

the worst because you got to deal directly with the parents and that's and with the players. I mean, you've got to coming at you from both ends. Coaching. Yeah, they have it the worst. There's no doubt. I mean, I, now that I am a coach, now, now I'm doing bitty, biddy ball where the hoops are like half height. So I'm not quite at that point yet. But I will, I will, you know, hopefully I'll keep coaching my son as he evolves. And I'm just, I'm already like, oh, boy, because I'm getting, well, my son got three rotations instead of four rotations. And I'm like, he's six. What, what are we talking about?

But, all right, let's get off. Let's get off. One last thing. Yeah, yeah. I don't mean this for this to be any type of shame. plug, but because I've spent my entire life in elite athletics, and I now have three children that are all playing sports. I've got a self-published book that's coming out in a few months. It's called The Sideline, the Ultimate Guide to Youth Sports Parenting.

And it's basically a guideline to hopefully give parents some tools to stay in their lane and create an environment that's fun for kids. And of course, a big portion of that is for parents not to coach from the sideline, you know, not to be, don't push your children too hard. Just create an environment that makes it fun for them, but definitely lay off the coaches and lay off the referees. Just enjoy the fact that your child has found something they love to do and be as supportive as possible in making that a fun experience. But I only bring that up because having spent my entire life in youth athletics, it is becoming a problem. And parents, unfortunately, as well-intentioned as they are, they're taking a lot of the fun out of the game. And we're seeing an

alarming number of statistics of kids are quitting sports early. earlier and earlier now. And their number one reason every single time is from adult interference. And the vast majority of those adults are the parents. And I love parents. I am a parent. I know how much they love their children. But boy, they need to start making some tweaks because they're starting to pollute what would otherwise be arguably the best platform for kids to learn life. So I cannot agree with this. And when I got out of basketball, in that 10 year span, which started, I was roughing down in Washington, D.C. around 2004 and I got out in, no, it doesn't matter.

2015 is when I stopped. And I was doing it for 12 years. So 2003 is when I started down in D.C. So in that 10-year span, I experienced what I believe, the transition from the kids being held responsible for their actions, to them not being held responsible. Now, I remember when I, I played high school, I played football, baseball and basketball. But like when I was playing football, I got a personal foul for a late hit, which was obvious and intentional. I was 17, you know, whatever.

Yeah. I deserve the flag. Let's just put it that way. My coach walked out onto the field, shoulder pressed me by my face mask, threw me into the sidelines, and wouldn't allow me to come back on the field for an entire. quarter. Now to a 17-year-old starter on a football team, that was like having my heart ripped out of my chest. You know what I mean? Not the throwing or the physical part, but the not being able to play. Today, that same type of action gets a, gets a, why did you throw that flag? Now we're going to attack the rest. Now we're, you know, what's wrong with you? Why wouldn't you let my son back in the game?

My dad made me run around the, I had, he like made me do laps around our neighborhood when I got home from the game because of what I did during the game. And it was, there was no like, you're not wrong. You know, they shouldn't have done that to you. Now, in that 12-year period, I watched, now in basketball, I watched that mentality shift to now you have kids spiking basketballs, kicking basketballs, getting technicals, pushing and shoving. And then the coaches and the refs are blamed for the kids' actions instead of the kids.

and that is pervasive today. So what I will say is we'll have the sideline, wherever people can register for it. I want you to tell them where they can get it, download it, buy it, whatever it is. And I want to push that because I believe so strongly in youth sports it is shaped who I am as a person. And if there are resources that we can put in people's hands

to help sculpt these tools, really youth sports are tools for children to become quality adults. then I want to get those in their hands. So we'll let everyone know where they can get that and then we'll have it all linked up and stuff too. I will. And it's so in its infancy right now that we don't even have the domain finalized.

So I'll make sure I shoot you that information when it's ready. Well, here's what I'll tell you. When you do, you email me and then I'll send it out to my email list and let everyone know about the book when it's ready. I love it. And I'm with you 100%. The things we can and should learn from youth sports carry over and bleed over to every area of our life.

and it's still the same principles. I mean, I speak to Fortune 100 companies now, and most of what I share, I translated in a different language, but most of what I share are basic principles that I hope my children are learning through sport, you know, things like accountability, and, you know, putting in work during the unseen hours,

and never making excuses, blaming others, or complaining, holding yourself fully responsible for everything that you do, and how important preparation is. I mean, so, yeah, all of us as adults should unite to get kids to play more sports and to have a great experience. And I think if collectively we can do that, it's just, I mean, it's good for society, but it's certainly good in our own backyards with our own children. 100% agree.

All right. So let's transition a little bit. That was tremendous. Let's transition a little bit. I want to talk about your transition, your thought process and going from your on the court, performance coach, performance trainer, helping these athletes, elite athletes. and moving towards being a speaker and moving towards the boardroom, which is a whole different arena, I guess, to keep the sports analogy going.

Just talk to me about the mentality to do that because that couldn't have been an easy, you know, I mean, your life is this and you transition it, even if it's something you wanted, it's never easy. So I'm just interested in that move where it came from. What was the motivation? I mean, there's so much there that I'm interested in. The motivation was really, I don't want to be overdramatic and say I was getting burnt out on the basketball training portion, but I could see myself heading in that direction.

And I've grown up with such a respect for teachers and coaches. I mean, I think they are the epitome of servant leaders. And I have such a profound respect for each of those crafts that I believe that all teachers and coaches should be 100% in in service of the players and teams they work with. And if you find yourself not as passionate, then it's up to you to leave and get out. because you owe it in this case, especially to the young people you work with, to do everything in your power for their development and their betterment. And I just found that I wasn't as excited to be in the gym or on the court or in the

weight room as I had been in years past. And I have high enough self-awareness that a red flag started to go up and was like, you know, Alan, something's wrong here. You used to love this. And it seems like you're losing a little bit of the love. Simultaneously, instead of being concerned with sets and exercise, and reps and periodization and all of the training, I was so much more fascinated with leadership and how do you build championship cultures and develop cohesion? How do you create the type of

loving accountability and standards that allow an organization to thrive? So that was really what was occupying my passion. And I just decided to kind of rip the Band-Aid off all at once and say, I'm going to leave the direct space that I'm in of basketball. I'm going to leave the direct vocation that I'm in, which is teaching players to run faster and jump higher. And I'm just going to pivot slightly to a new audience, thus being the corporate world, and I'm going to start sharing stuff that I'd learned outside of how do you run faster and jump higher. Because when I looked back on my breadth of work, I was so lucky to be around such amazing players and coaches who taught me the tenants of leadership and accountability and cohesion and holding yourself to excellence. I just decided

that I wanted to take that stuff and start sharing it with other groups that I felt would really benefit if they applied it. So that was kind of how I steered my ship. And I spent a good portion of my time in basketball speaking at basketball clinics. So being up in front of people and talking is always been something I've enjoyed doing. So even though I'm only entering my fourth year as a professional speaker by trade, I've been speaking professionally for probably 15 years. Yeah. But only now in the corporate space. So it was less of a leap than many people may think, because it's not like I had this set nine to five job and I just walked in and quit and decided I was going to be a speaker the next day. There were a lot of natural parallels between what I was doing and what I'm doing now.

And the biggest thing that made that leap somewhat easier was I'm a relationship guy. And I had built some really amazing relationships with people in the basketball space who once I told them of my pivot, they were able to open doors for me in the corporate world. I mean, I can't tell you how many times a high school coach would reach out and say, hey Alan, I'm so-and-so. I coached down in Mississippi. I've really loved your work for the last few years. Now that you're in the corporate space, I want to introduce you to my brother-in-law, who happens to be the VP of sales at so-and-so corporation. They're always looking for speakers. Let me give him your information. So the basketball community and full support really rolled out

the red carpet and made some introductions that allowed me to start getting the ball rolling. And then as you know, and any professional speaker knows, that's just what gets the momentum to start. Now you've got to create it by being good and by having some outreach and creating new relationships. So it was all kind of the perfect storm. But relatively speaking, it was a pretty smooth transition. And I'm very grateful for that. Yeah. What was the most surprising thing for you in terms of the speaking business? Well, the most surprising thing, let me start on the corporate side. I was surprised. And now realize that I'm a little bit jaded because the two high schools that I worked for here in the Washington, D.C. area.

Montrose Christian, which is where Kevin Durant graduated from. Yeah. And DeMatha Catholic High School, which is where Victorola Depot graduated from. My first basketball game I ever reft in my life was at DeMatha High School. Was it really? Yeah. Oh, wow. Look at you.

That's big time. Versus St. John's. What's the one over in, they're in Maryland, the one Catholic School League team in Maryland there? St. John's. Yeah, St. John's. Yeah. That's huge. Man.

It's a freshman game. Yeah. Wow. Well, both of those schools I worked out for 13 years combined, and we have over a dozen players in the NBA right now. So I preface that by saying those are two really elite level schools, and they both had elite level coaches. And I sometimes would take for granted that, you know, Mike Jones is the coach at DeMatha. And he's as good as any coach I've ever seen at any level in any sport. And I guess I just got numb to the way that he did things because I just assumed that everyone in the world had a practice plan when they went into a meeting. I just assumed everyone in the world clearly defined everyone's roles for everyone on the team. And I go into the corporate world and I'm working with Fortune 500 companies who don't do the same things that a high school basketball coach does. So I was actually shocked that some of these groups have been able to attain incredible success. And yet some of the fundamentals and building blocks weren't even in place. I would sit in on corporate meetings and I'm

like, this is the biggest waste of time. There's no organization. There's no organization. There's plan. This meeting could have been wrapped up in eight minutes, and we're sitting here at minute 38 right now. This is a waste of resources. And I don't say that to diminish those groups. And I don't want to make it sound like I could run a Fortune 500 company. But it just let me believe that it doesn't matter where you're coming from. Someone that has the traits of a high performer and has standards of excellence are things that we can all learn from. And to be able to say, when you come into a meeting, you should have a practice plan detailed to the minute. of what the goal of the meeting is, who needs to be there,

how much time we're going to allot spending on what, that just seemed like a no-brainer to me. Yeah. But it's not always common in regular life. So to me, that was kind of a surprise. And as far as the speaking business in general, I don't know that anything really surprised me. And that's only because the moment I got in it,

I insulated myself with amazing people like the folks in Speak and Spill, who kind of showed me the ropes and kind of told me what to expect and have really dropped the breadcrumbs. that I've been able to follow to matriculate up. But so far, I mean, I love what I do now. And I just, I mean, the speaking business, it's so perfect for me in my life right now. I just absolutely love it.

Yeah. I always, when people ask me about, so one, it's funny how small the world is that you coached at Dematha. Yeah. And, or we're working at the Matha and all those. I was, dude, I did, so I refed in, I reft in D.C. for four years before I moved back up here to Albany, New York.

And my fourth year there, I did, I did 475 games in one basketball season. I was doing, it was the best basketball. I tell people all the time, like, when I came back to upstate New York and nothing against upstate New York, we just put Kevin Herder in the NBA, you know what I mean? Like I refed Kevin, great kid, great basketball player. But like, it was like slow motion up here compared to, I mean, you're looking at, you're looking at the way basketball is played in the Washington, D.C. area is like, it's college basketball, even at like the JV level.

And the way that it's coached is so much different. And when I, well, you talk about like being spoiled. When I left, because even, even though that's a contentious, hard fought. incredibly competitive leagues down there, the quality that happens, even from a coaching standpoint, when you leave there, you're spoiled because all of a sudden you have these hacks telling you how to do your job, these country bunkins. Yeah. I just, you know, whatever.

But it's just funny how small the world is. I love revving down there. That's cool. But so the thing about speaking that I've always said to people was, you know, people ask me, like what do you how do you like it why do you like it those kind of things it's the closest thing to to sports as a kid as i've been able to find as an adult that feeling of electricity that you have um being in front of an audience performing for them like the michael port you know how michael port talks about it's you're not speaking engagement it's a performance yeah like like that to me um

it's the closest thing that i've been able to find and i haven't coached at a high level i'm sure you know, if I get to coach my kid and, you know, there could be some fun. But, you know, when you're out in front of an audience, 500, 700, 1,000 people and they're all looking at you and you're trying to give every ounce that you have to them, there's just, it's the closest thing to being in the batter's box or, you know, making that shot at the end of the game or whatever. Like, it just, it's the closest thing you can get as an adult. Oh, absolutely. And I think that's one of the reasons I find it so intoxicating. It does. It, it fills many of those same memories that I had as a play. and even as a coach. And I actually choose to approach speaking very similarly. I mean, my, I call it my pregame routine.

My pregame routine before I take the stage is similar in framework to what I used to do to prepare for a game. Now, clearly, I don't necessarily have to do a ton of stretching before I take the stage, but I do something physical to get some energy out. I make sure that I'm getting good sleep the night before. I have my uniform. I mean, the things that I choose to wear on stage, I don't wear anywhere. else because I like the feeling of knowing when I'm putting this on it's game time it's just like you

don't you don't wear your jersey out you know during the week you put it on when it's time to prepare and time to play and same thing I have a pregame meal I mean depending on whether I'm giving a morning keynote or an evening keynote those things will vary but I prepare and have the same routine and rituals for every speaking engagement just like an athlete would to to prepare and you know I don't know at the time of this recording if the Lakers are playing tonight or night. But I know that if the Lakers have a game tonight, LeBron has a very specific schedule of what he does on game day, starting from the moment he wakes up to the moment the jump ball is thrown up.

And there's nothing haphazard about that schedule. Now, it's taken him years probably to fine tune that to make sure that he performs at a high level. But LeBron's not walking around the streets of L.A. four hours before tip off going, I wonder what I'm going to eat this afternoon. You know, do I feel like Mexican food or Chinese? No, he knows exactly what he's going to eat, when he's going to eat it, when he's going to get to the arena, what stretches he's going to do, when he's going to take the court, what he's going to, like he knows all of that because that's what high performers do. They create consistency through mindsets and rituals and routines to perform at the highest level. So when you say that speaking is as close to we guys like us can get to playing sports, you are 100% right on and I choose to approach it that way.

Yeah, I think, well, I'm with you. I either do the same thing. I have a whole routine that I go through. Again, it all varies morning, night. You know, you never really know. But yeah, no, I do the same thing. And just like you said with the LeBron example, and this is probably the closest similarity that I have to LeBron,

it has taken me years to kind of define what that is in trial and error, right? Like, do I like to eat close to the speaking time? Do I want to keep some space? Do I want to fast before it? Like, you know, how much coffee do I want to drink? and how hydrated do you want to be? Like there's, there's, you know, you kind of trial and error these things. And as you find them, you, you, you, and then it's, it's making sure that you are consistent

with it. And I find, you know, I have these, I have these crazy notebooks where I just write things down. And whether I actually ever go back and look at the note or not, writing it down, burns it into the brain. And then you repeat. Yes. And I'm 100% with you. And what, what I find interesting and I'm really interested in your, your take on this

because I want to kind of take this into raise the game, your book. But like, why? So we've talked about this habitual kind of performance preparation, all that kind of stuff that we're talking about right now. And we've talked about it in terms of like of sports, which makes a lot of sense. And then in speaking, even it doesn't feel like a big stretch. But then when we have like a really important sales call or meeting or whatever,

we just kind of like mow some donuts, show up and hope everything goes wow. Yeah, and that is a major problem. I mean, one of the things that makes high performers, high performers is consistency of output. Now, any speaker will tell you that, I mean, they're not at a 95 out of 100 every time they take the stage. We're human beings, so we're fallible. So there have been times that I've gotten off the stage and I thought, and that just, that wasn't the best I was capable of. Hopefully the audience doesn't know it, but I know it inside. Then there's other times I get off the stage and I think, man, that is the best performance I have ever had. And the goal is to make sure there's a minimal gap between the two.

And the consistency of preparation is what will determine the consistency on the stage. See, guys like you and I know that if the performance we give on stage is dependent upon how we feel, what we want to do, whether it's convenient in our schedule, whether we had a flight delay or not, we can't let all of those parameters dictate what we do on the stage. And the same thing is true in sport, and I'm glad that you're taking it to this place with the same thing if we use sales as an example. You need to create a template and a process and a system and a routine to prepare for every sales call, every sales meeting, you know, everything you do that is client or customer facing. You should have templates for different types of emails that you sent out. You should

have a standardized process for following up with prospects. And then once they become a client, What are some of the standard timelines of when you're going to follow up with them? You know, are you actively reaching out to anticipate their needs? You know, our good friend from Speak and Spill, Phil Jones talks all the time about telling is not selling. So are you working on the basics of asking insightful questions and being an active listener? Like those are the fundamentals. If you want to be a great basketball player, then you work on your footwork religiously. Well, if you want to be good in sales, you learn to become an insightful question ask

I don't even know if that's a word, but you learn how to ask insightful questions and to be able to navigate conversations in that way. And what I tell sales professionals all the time that I work with, you know, I ask them, how much role playing do you do? And they usually look at me like I just grew a second head. He's like, well, why would you not practice different scenarios with a colleague that you're more than likely going to face when you're in front of a customer? Why would the first time you hear this objection be when you're in front of a prospect and not something that you're doing in practice? One of the things that makes Mike Jones at DeMath is so great is every single practice, there is a component dedicated to working on fundamentals, so shooting and passing and ball handling drills. There's a component that works on competition, so teaching players how to compete against each other. They could be shooting drills or one-on-one drills or three-on-three.

And then there's what he calls time and score, where he creates game-like scenarios. And he says, all right, blue team, you're up three points. It's white team's ball and there's a minute 37 seconds left. Joey, you have three fouls on you. White team, you have one timeout. Blue team, you have no timeouts. And let's just play the remaining 137 on the clock. And it puts players in a position to practice the scenarios they're going to see.

You know, if there's three seconds left in a game and Demath is going to inbound the ball under their basket, whatever inbounds play they call, they've done that a million times in practice. This won't be the first time that they've tried it at a sole. out game against St. John's where Ryan Hanley's refereeing. This is a game that they've practiced. And I want to say the same thing for sales. Like you should have a system and a process and standards for every aspect of the sales process. You should practice role playing. You should practice listening. Like there's so many of these things. And if you do that, you will consistently outperform sales professionals that don't. Now, will you still find some times where a customer

comes up with an objection that you weren't prepared for, yes, but you've narrowed the number of times that will happen if you're actually practicing. And I think the utility between sports and sales is almost as high as the utility between sports and professional speaking. Why do you think people don't do that? Like I, I, like, why is that not intuitive for some people? One, it takes a lot of work. I mean, it's a lot of preparation. I mean, I know that most basketball, players, once they've reached a certain level, they feel that they're above the fundamentals. They feel that they're, that, you know, well, I'm in college. I don't need to go back and work on my left hand dribbling and I don't need to work on my footwork because I'm pretty good because I'm in

college. Well, one thing I learned being around Kobe Bryant and LeBron James and KD and Steph Curry, those guys never leave the basics. They'll spend 10 to 15 minutes working on pivoting drills to make sure that their footwork is flawless so that they can then level up and build on top of that. I'm not saying they only do the fundamentals. I'm saying the fundamentals are a staple of their preparation and then they level up and they practice all of these things because that's the only way that you get good at anything. The only route to skill mastery is repetition, repetition, repetition. So I think part of it is sales professionals thinking I'm pretty charismatic. I'm a good looking guy. People like me. I can talk my way into most situations. I can probably just show up for

this sales meeting tomorrow, I'm sure I'll knock it out of the park. And maybe in history, they've done that pretty successfully. But if they would go back and do the little things and have more preparation and do role playing and ask insightful questions, the vet, the prospect, they'd perform at an even higher level. So I think it's a combination of some just don't know, because they haven't made the connection between practice and play. Some of them don't want to do it because they feel like it's beneath them. Like I've been selling for 20 years, do you really think I'm supposed to role play every Monday morning for 30 minutes? That sounds a little stupid. Oh, it may be, but if Kobe Bryant's willing to get in a gym at 4 in the morning during the offseason and work on

pivoting drills, I think a little role playing with your sales colleagues on every Monday morning for 30 minutes is more than appropriate. Yeah, that was a game changer for me in my career as a salesman was when it was two things really. I started listening to my father-in-law who I was working for at the time He was, he's a master salesman. And what I did was I stopped fighting the way that he sold. And I started literally just sitting in his office and listen to him take phone calls and just listened and listened and listened. And then I took his stories and I started morphing them into my own.

And we role played off of each other, some of the younger guys in the office. We would tell stories back and forth. Like, and really there was none of the stories were even on our own. They were all just these morphed stories from our father and law, from my father-in-law, who was their, you know, their boss. And that process really took all of us to the next level. It was a breaking point in our careers where all of a sudden we started, all of our hit rates started going up because we armed ourselves with stories to respond

to common objections. And we told those stories over and over and over. And a good friend or, you know, I don't know how well you know him, but a good friend of mine who you probably also know is Marcus Sheridan. Oh, yes. Love Marcus. Yeah, he's. he pounds me over the head every time we see each other.

He's like, he's like, you don't need new stories. You just need to get better and more consistent at telling the stories you have. Like, just get, he's like, just get sharper and better at the stories. Like people want to hear the same stories over and over again because each time they take a little more out of it. And I think the same thing is true for your prospects, if you're selling insurance or, you know, whatever you're doing, you know, to get better and better at those fundamental aspects, whether it's a sales story. or overcoming an objection or walk an employee through a difficult situation or combativeness and work or whatever like it's just refining those things you don't need to always look

and we're all guilty of this right like we always see the new shiny thing or we want that new you know whatever but yeah that that was really a breaking point in my career when I started role playing I love that well think about this and I and I by no means a sales expert I'm not a salesman other than I've been a self, you know, I've owned my own businesses my entire life, so I've had to sell to some degree, but I'm no Marcus Sheridan. I'm no Phil Jones. I'm no Ian Altman, but I've learned from those guys. And but my commitment to craft, let's just say we've got a mid-sized business and you have 10 sales professionals that sell either your service or your product. You can't convince me that one of the most valuable things you could do would be to let's just say set aside one hour a week, just one hour during the entire work week. for the sake of argument, let's just say it's Monday morning at 9. No one is ever going to schedule calls Monday morning at 9. We're all going to meet and here's the practice we're going to go through. And this practice could have a variety of components. One, it could definitely have some role playing. So maybe as the team leader, you have 10 index cards with

10 different potential objections or scenarios and you're going to randomly pass those out and let folks pair up. And one time you're the salesperson, one times you're the prospect and work through those. And then everybody come back together. and share some of the things that worked and share some of the things that didn't. Another component could be, you know, everyone, you had certain number of sales calls this past week, can someone share some of the things

that worked really well in those calls? What's something out of the ordinary that either you did impromptu or if you've been doing regularly that really helped you close the deal? Because I don't wanna take for granted that your other nine teammates know what it is that you did that works.

I want you to share that and pour into them. Conversely, did anyone hit a side? stumbling block or step on a landmine. Did anyone get caught with their pants down with the prospect and realize they asked you an objection you weren't prepared for? Can you share that with the group? And let's discuss. Something else would be. And of course, this would only be if it's allowed and permissible. But maybe you record your sales call and then you play it in front of the team and let the team break it down like you're breaking down game film and say, okay, here's some things Alan said during this call that he did really well with. Here's a couple of times he's

stepped on his own feet and got in the way and maybe create some friction with the prospect, but it's something that everyone can learn from. And if you were to take that one hour and work on the fundamentals of sales in general, and this could also be adding in, you know, we've got a new product available. So let's talk about how this is integrated with our other products. Let's come up with a list of the best questions to ask prospects to see if they're the right fit, you know, and work on this stuff all of the time. And all it would take would be one hour a week. And I think you'd see a tremendous increase in output and performance from those 10 sales professionals just by practicing those basics and being open enough and vulnerable enough to share the things that work and the things that don't.

Yeah. And I think the key there, because I 100% agree, from a management perspective, is creating the space that allows them to have those conversations in a constructive way that isn't judgmental. Great time. Which isn't sometimes, especially if you're in an alpha situation, you know, not just alpha male, but alpha female alpha male, just an alpha situation. That can be difficult to do. But to me, that sits on management, leadership, whoever is responsible for that, for that conversation.

If you can create that space, I think people want to open up about these things. They just don't know when it's appropriate and they don't, I think a lot of times we don't want to feel weak. Now, one thing that I appreciate about our culture in general versus even, you know, when we were kids, because we're basically the same age, like, you can be more open in environments like that and it is much more acceptable, which is an enormous positive of our society. But it's still, especially in sales or those type of situations, you kind of have to let people bring, you know, as a leader, if you can bring your guard down, that will allow others to feel safe to bring their guard down.

And that's how those things happen. Yeah. But you have to create that, as you said the key word, a safe environment. And you also have to get to know your people. Like if I'm the manager and you're one of my 10 sales professionals, and I found through spending time with you and connecting with you that you feel embarrassed and emasculated if I kind of break down your film in front of the group, well, then I simply won't do that with you because that's actually going to decrease your performance,

increase it. So this also goes into, you treat everyone on your team fairly, but you don't treat everyone equally, you know, where I on the other hand might say, hey, guys, you can tape every one of my calls and you can put the damn thing on YouTube if you want, because I don't care. As long as I get information that's going to allow me to get better, it doesn't matter to me. But this is when we've got these customized individual differences. And then one other aspect to that team practice would be with the concept of team. And I know this is challenging in many sales environments, because you and I work for the same company, but we each have our own quota, and it's kind of wired into the compensation package that I get more money when I hit my numbers. So it kind of creates

this almost me versus you instead of me and you. And that's not good for the bottom line of the company. You know, if you're my teammate, I should want to do everything I can to help you hit your quotas and make sure you're facilitating sales. Even if occasionally that means, you know, I lose the prospect because you signed them to the account. And I, didn't, overall, it will still work out best if we're all enriching and empowering each other. So another thing would be just talking to the team and saying, all right, who do I know or what can I do that adds value to any of you? You know, Ryan, you're trying to close this deal with this company over here. I might have some contacts that can help you do that. I'm not going to

see any commission for that. I'm not going to get anything, but I'm going to help you do it. And you mean something to me because you're my teammate, so I want to be able to do that. And when we create that type of atmosphere, it's just human nature that it's just human nature that at some point, you're going to turn around and go, well, Alan, you've done me a solid on these last two accounts I've closed. I actually know someone that can help you with who you're, and we all get better for it. So creating a safe atmosphere where it's not me versus you, it's me and you in sales is incredibly important to the fabric and culture of the organization. Well, Alan, we could go. We could go. We could go all day. I want to be respectful of your time and that of the audience.

This has been absolutely tremendous. We've gone so many different places. which is my favorite type of podcast episode. I want to do two things. Sure. Three things, actually. I want to direct people to your book, raise the game. Where can they get that? If they go to raise your game book.com.

Yep, that's okay. If you raise your game, you will raise the game. So it all works out. If you go to raise your game book.com, you can get the book. If anyone wants to order it for your whole organization, I can offer a 42% discount on a team order. and I can even sign each copy. And then I just released a facilitator guidebook and a team member workbook that allows you,

if you want to do a book study with your group or your organization, to really bring the principles of the book to life and put them in action. And then if anyone's interested in speaking or anything else I have going on, you can just go to allansteinjr.com. And I'm at allansteinjr.com on all the major social platforms and love engaging with folks. So if anything Ryan and I talked about today from referee, to sales performance, struck a chord. Hit me up on social. I'd love to continue the dialogue. So that was going to be the next thing I said. For everyone, for all my insurance friends out

there who run events in our space, if you remember a few years ago, I introduced you all to Marcus Sheridan and he ran through the industry and did all the events. You all should be hiring Alan as well. You're going to get the same quality performance with a different perspective. But the level of value and quality is exactly the same. So, I'm hoping that some of you will pick up Alan for your next event. I'm always willing to do a breakout session underneath him or whatever. That's tag team at you and I, man. I don't know that there's a event out there that could take both of our energy.

Dude, I made the mistake of following Marcus one time. And I literally have a clause in my contract now that is, will not speak directly after Marcus shared and ever again. No, I don't have that. But no, I just encourage everyone the group that we keep referencing speak and spell, Alan comes incredibly highly recommended inside that group. Go watch his YouTube videos. And I hope that some of my insurance friends out there who are listening to this,

that you guys will have a chance to interact with him live. Dude, it has been such a pleasure, man. Thank you for giving us the time that you have. And hopefully we'll be able to connect in person in the future. Can I tell one real quick story? Please do. All right. It now jogs my memory that you said you did the DeMatha St. John's game way back in the early 2000s

because now I vividly remember. After the game, Coach Jones went into the referees locker room, and he saw the cell phone that was laying there, and he figured one of the referees left it. And I said, I think it was probably Ryan's phone. And he said, oh, it was definitely Ryan's phone. And I said, well, how would you know? And he said, well, it had 17 missed calls. There you go. Very good.

But a boom, perfect exit. Awesome. I appreciate you, brother. All right, man. Be good. Yep. Twice as many deals by this time next week. Sound impossible, it's not.

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