Finding Peak w/ Ryan Hanley - Brett Fulmer, on Building the Next Generation of Insurance

Episode Date: May 27, 2021

Spartan philosophy, built in the black-ops lab of business: https://www.findingpeak.comFinding Peak podcast: https://linktr.ee/ryan_hanleyIn this episode of The Ryan Hanley Show, Ryan Hanley interviews Brett Fulmer, known as Broker Brett on social media, a true renaissance man in the insurance industry. In this epic conversation, we break down his career and why his path is quickly becoming more the norm, than the exception. Don't miss this episode...Episode Highlights:Brett shares his background. (6:11)Brett gives his thoughts on broker relationships. (16:55)Brett shares the future of agencies. (19:19)Brett shares some of the programs he created when the pandemic hit. (21:45)Brett explains how his team allows him to be a better version of himself.(25:16)Brett shares his career background. (25:54)How does Brett decide which types of projects he wants to be involved with? (34:38)Brett discusses the origins of his agency. (42:13)Brett mentions the mindset of being a leader. (51:53)Key Quotes:“I've actually got to a point where I don't even think about it as insurer tech and insurance anymore. It's sort of like fit, place, time. And, hopefully, everyone's using technology well.” - Brett Fulmer“I'm looking for people who are gonna challenge me... we can grow and win together. I'm not looking for people to pat me on the butt. I'm too nice to everyone so, everyone’s too nice to me. I mean, people are gonna challenge me and help me kind of grow and go forward.” - Brett Fulmer“The crown jewel I'm chasing is like...Wow, we figured out the mouse trap and we can deploy other people to do the same thing. Even candidly, the name sets itself up to... once we feel like we have it, we can deploy other insurance on it… help other people get rolling, but we’ve got to figure out how to make our own stuff work first.” - Brett FulmerResources Mentioned:Brett Fulmer LinkedInNewport Beach Insurance Center LLCFinaeo Inc.CaptaIMSReach out to Ryan Hanley--Recommended Tools for GrowthOpusClip: #1 AI video clipping and editing tool: https://link.ryanhanley.com/opusRiverside: HD Podcast & Video Software | Free Recording & Editing: https://link.ryanhanley.com/riversideWhisperFlow: Never waste time typing on your keyboard again: https://link.ryanhanley.com/whisperflowCaptionsApp: One app for all your social media video creation: https://link.ryanhanley.com/captionsappGoHighLevel: It's time to take your business workflow to the Next Level: https://link.ryanhanley.com/gohighlevelPerspective.co: The #1 funnel builder for lead generation: https://link.ryanhanley.com/perspective--Episodes You Might Enjoy:From $2 Million Loss to World-Class Entrepreneur: https://lnk.to/delkFrom One Man Shop to $200M in Revenue: https://lnk.to/tommymelloIs Psilocybin the Gateway to Self-Mastery? https://lnk.to/80upZ9This show is part of the Unplugged Studios Network — the infrastructure layer for serious creators. 👉 Learn more at https://unpluggedstudios.fm.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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for her to save with customized coverage that grows with her business. Sorry, I'll just get so emotional talking about saving folks money. Not this onion I'm jabbing? It's just so beautiful. Oh yeah, nice the onion. Get a commercial auto insurance quote today at Geico.com and see how much you could save. It feels good to Geico. At Emory University, we are guided by a shared purpose. and a spirit of collaboration. Students here push each other to think creatively and work together because we believe different perspectives lead to new ideas. We know that Emory's mission to create, preserve, teach,

and apply knowledge in the service of humanity takes all of us. We do together better. Learn more at emory.edu. A crude laboratory in the basement of his home. Hello, we want to welcome back to the So today we have a tremendous episode for you with a tremendous guest, Brett Fulmer, otherwise known as Broker Brett on all the socials. Brett's been around for a long time and I've always enjoyed his approach because he doesn't

attack insurance from the traditional standpoint. He comes at it very much from a more technology or insure tech standpoint, but with a strong appreciation and respect for the traditional agency, the importance of insurance. And I've just always been a fan of the way that he views our industry. His work in insurance nerds always been fantastic. You've seen him working with a bunch of different insured tech startups as well as both like a brand ambassador slash advisor and growing his own agency that he's a partner of out in Newport Beach in California. And this is just an awesome conversation. It's just an awesome conversation.

And frankly, I'll say this. I say it during the episode as well, but when I realized that I hadn't had bred on the show yet, I was like, oh my gosh, I just, I kind of just assumed that I had interviewed him before. And if I'm being completely candid, my mental around interviewing people spans the various shows that I'm done. Everything from the old content warfare show to agency nation to, you know, all, you know, I think this is the third iteration of a podcast that I've done. I tend to get it kind of jarbled in my head, who I've interviewed, do I haven't? And when I realized that I hadn't actually had him on the show, I was like, oh my gosh, dude, you got to get on.

So hopefully that gives you an understanding of my appreciation and respect for Brett, what he's doing and what I think he's capable of in our space. And I hope that you'll connect with him on LinkedIn, Twitter, great follow. But definitely get in Brett's ecosystem. Make him a connection. Highly recommend it. And he'll talk a little bit about how you do that at the end of the show. So you can also connect with him in all his spots in the show notes of this episode.

Go to Ryan Hanley.com. That's where all the episodes are. But before we get there, just a quick shout out to a couple sponsors of the show, the people that make this possible. Tools and people that I love and respect. Big shout out to Donna for agents. Donna is an analytics platform that is changing the game for us. I mean, really, it's giving us insights into our book of business

in a way that wouldn't be possible. Otherwise, now, your natural reaction to that should be Ryan. You're a startup agency. Put your head down. Right, business. You know, just why are you worried about all these things? Because my agency is not going to be a small startup business for very long. Like, I'm not taking the traditional path, and I'm certainly not going to grow at the

traditional pace. And for that reason, I want to make sure that I have the tools in place that mirror, or mirrors the wrong word, that support the core values of what we're doing. And data and not just data. to have data, but data that I can look at, that I can digest and make business decisions around is one of the core pieces that's going to separate rogue from everyone else. And that's why I've made the investment. And Donna is a sponsor of this show, but I pay for Donna. It is a tool that I pay for out of our, you know, it's an agency line expense because I believe in it. That's the

whole deal. I believe in this tool. And I think you should go to Google Donna for agents, just the people behind the project, the people involved with the project, the agents that are using Donna today. If data is something that is important to you. Now, if it's not important to you, just disregard this. But if it is, this is a tool you at least want to know about. It's a tool you at least want to go get the demo for and know about this tool. I promise you will not be disappointed. Donna for agents, check it out. I also want to be a tool. I just want to I want to give a very quick shout out to Mick Hunt and the team at Premier Strategy Box. Guys, if you need help with something in your agency, and I'm going to say something as a

broad term, connect with Mick, reach out, go to Premiere Strategy, my Strategybox.com, my strategybox.com, go to MyStrategyBox.com or just Google Premier Strategy Box. Find Mick Hunt, find his team. They will help you manage, build sales processes. Same thing with customer service, customer experience. The team there is incredible. And if you're looking to next level up, if you as an agency owner are sick of having your hands in every single process that happens in your agency and you want to really put

yourself in positions where you can go be your best version of yourself and you need someone to step in and help manage sales flow or help manage service flow, then Mick and his team are the perfect partner. Every agent that I have referred to Mick and the team at Premier Strategy Box has signed up. Every single agent, 100 for 100, or I don't think I've sent 100 agents, but we're batting a thousand, I can say. So that's how much, how strongly I feel about Mick and a team at Premier Strategy Box. Okay, got that out of the way.

I love you guys for listening, as always. Let's get on to Brett Fulmer. Dude, what's up? How you doing? Another day in the neighborhood, you know? We're recording already. We're coming hot, so I can't even ask about what we can and can't talk about. So we'll just go for this.

Well, we can turn it off for a sec if there's some... I don't think we should. You know, I think we just got a, you know, the candid live feedback. Yeah. Off. If you, if you want to go super off the record, we can just, uh, everyone can just earmuff. Just say earmuffs to everyone. And then they can't, then they can't hear us.

Well, not to like Facebook part, but what I think is interesting. And sorry, this will sound better. Yeah. Um, dude. So when I got started, I'd already, I kind of cheated because I was at a startup around 2014 to 16 data visualization. Yep. Um, but I want to say 70.

or 18, I got an office job and it freaked me out because I'd always been an outside salesman. So I go like walk or jog, two or three miles in the morning. I listen to the whole agency nation like podcast catalog. That's really like if I came in with a head of steam, it's like he'd been in sales, it'd been around a startup. You guys were a little bit more nervous about tech than I was. I was like, and plus I had nothing to lose. You know what I mean? So you're worried about them coming on. Like, dude, tech happens. You know, like, yeah, it's usually helpful. I think the part about the insure tech revolution of 20. 2016 that was the most interesting to me. And I'll say I agree with you. I think,

you know, looking back now on, you know, five years ago, our position and even 2015 a little bit when it really started to get started, there was, I think it was less about the tech and more about the rhetoric. It was more this every insured tech founder of that generation. And some of which have changed their tune and changed their narrative. It was combative. It was disrupt. It was disrupt, disrupt, disrupt, disrupt, disrupt, disintermediate. This, this entire industry is filled full of sluggish idiots who don't understand, who can't innovate, who can't move, who are, who are, who, I kind of thought that too.

I thought it was going to come in and have a heyday, just outrun people, work hard. It is hard to move products. It's hard to move relationships. Like, yeah. Yeah. And, and, you know, I'd say in, in the last few years, I've been blessed to be an advisor for a couple different startups and our space and not even necessarily startup startups, but emerging platforms of all different sizes and probably half a dozen or so that some of which I talk about,

some I don't. And the number one thing that I say when I get involved with any of those groups, if they don't already understand this, is that understanding how this industry actually works and what we really do for a living is is the core of being successful. I do not care how smart you are, how much money you are, how well connected you are. There are startups right now who look like they could be potential household names that have absolutely positively no shot of ever reaching profitability. You know, you come in with a slick front end and 80% reinsurance. You're toast.

You have no chance. I don't care how good your marketing is. the first time we hit a hard market and reinsurance, you're your, you're, you're, you're, you're,

you're, and we've seen some of that, you know, and I think, and that's just one small example. That's, and I'm not talking about anyone. You have to start kind of unideal to get that deal,

but I see what you're saying, like unless the math pencils out right, you can be in trouble pretty quick, you know? And I'm not, and that's a very shallow, broad stroke example. And no one is quite so leveraged into re-enstoried.

insurance as that. But the idea is if you come in and you're going to bypass some of the traditional models, understand that you're not actually doing anything that is that new. And what I mean by that is there have been companies for a millennia that have tried to leverage different markets, come in with different backing. I mean, maybe not necessarily using digital or, you know, whatever, the different processes that we have today from a technology standpoint. But the idea of buying market share by dropping prices and being easier to do business with is not a new, that's not a new idea. That's a, it's actually one of the most recycled ideas that exist. I think some have done it well, some have haven't. And the ones that

I see like, I look at Kyle Nagasugi. I was not sure, Kyle. I always put you your last name, but I have tremendous respect for the way that he's building clear cover. And I'll tell you from a personal lines perspective, now, Rogue is a primarily small commercial, but we have in our roadmap, I want to start adding personal lines.

Well, today, traditional, most carriers from a commercial line standpoint we'll open up to a more, because we're in 20 states now. We have customers actually in 27 states. And in the next six months, we'll be fully national, if not sooner. Probably not Alaska and Hawaii just because it's just the traffic is so small. There's been zero interest. But say, we'll be in all lower 48 states inside of six months, if not earlier.

Okay. So to get an appointment with a traditional carrier, in the lower 48 on a national level for commercial lines is not incredibly difficult. You have a, if you can prove that you understand the product and you have a plan, you know, checkbox, hey, just send us your license. You're good to go. But on personal lines, I found, and again, I'm sure someone will email me and say, Ryan, but we, I think I know where you're going.

I agree. It's way, way different. It's, we're not appointing anyone in New Jersey. Well, what do you mean? I'm in Pennsylvania, New York with you and have written business. You want to mean? Well, in New Jersey, you know, you got to talk to Tim. Tim's been underwriting new.

It's like this completely different thing. So, okay, some of the bureaucratic stuff, completely willing to deal with, some of it is just too much of a struggle. So I look to some of the insure tech carrier. I shouldn't say insure tech. This next generation of insurance carriers, clear cover, I'd put. in this bucket as better national options for personal lines insurance. Especially if you're focusing somewhere else, I think insuredex can make all of us cross-sell more.

There's a friend with a niche commercial expertise. And I was like, no, just go get set up with Hippo and Clearcover. That'll make that part of your life easy when people are demanding to get a quote for X. Yes. And that's the way, that's the way we're going to address it to is I think we will write with with very commonly known traditional agencies, not that we won't look at some of the insured techs, but pound for pound,

I haven't seen them displacing either in ease of business or in quality of product. You know, any of the insured tech carriers on the commercial line side, I like the people running them and I have no problem with them, but I'll tell you, I'll take Hartford or Chubb or, you know, even guard. Or somebody gets you to them. It's, you know, the,

it's just as easy to quote with Chubber Hartford as it is to quote with any of the insure techs. The product I think is still better by far. And the claims is way better. And so I don't know that you're actually getting a better product yet on the commercial line side. But on the personal line side, like I look at Clearcover. And I think Clearcover is a primetime player.

I think Clear Cover's got a real shot of being, like I look at Hip, as a best in breed, personal lines, you know, I'm doing air quotes. You can't see me. Sure tech personal lines carrier. I think Hippo is kind of done a lot of things really right. And I have a lot of respect for them. And I think clear cover is the auto equivalent. And I think they, did they just have a, no, it was Metro Mile that Hippo did a, did a

partnership with. I'm sure that's because of, because of scope. But I, I put like a, like a faux bundle, which I think is smart. bundle. I think it's cool. I mean, yeah, that makes sense. No, I've liked hippo the way, and I'm always way too political for my own good. I'm, you know, nice little Southern California guy. Hippo's, I'm weeded, you know, 40 things are going on. A realtor reaches out. It says, hey, I need a quote, I need to put a mortgage company on it. Can you turn something around? Boom, hippo real quick. Um, you know, maybe travelers, if I have some more time, a little nicer situation, bundle, umbrella, whatever else.

Something more bespoke, high net worth, you know, we'll go to a different carrier. Um, but yeah, they're great when you're in the weeds and you're weeded and you believe in the product. Yeah, I've been in Clearcover client myself because I like to eat my own dog food. I bought a jetty renters. Use Oscar for health insurance. Like, can't be chilling this stuff. But I've actually got the point where I don't even think about as insure tech and insurance anymore.

It's sort of like fit, place, time and hopefully everyone's using technology well. Yeah. But I do think you're right, though, to look at the reinsurer and the claim side and kind of the full spectrum, you know, of what you're offering. Yeah. One of my, so in personal lines, and again, this is all. what are you willing to tolerate for what exchange, right? You know, for what, what's the value prop? And I look at in personal lines, if you're primarily third party claims adjusters,

you know, independent claims adjusters and there's that level of disconnect, I feel more comfortable with it. Personal lines claims adjusting is far more standardized. And, you know, you have companies like Snapsheet, which make it very standardized. and so I feel more comfortable there. But in commercial lines, I still would love to see a large portion of the claims adjusters be familiar or contracted to that carrier.

Nothing against independent claims adjusters of there's any listening. I'm sure there's not a lot. But I will say that in the situations that I've had, both in this instance of my career and in past, independent claims adjusters are oftentimes, from my perspective, involved in claims that get out of hand. And it's just a lot of times they're overburdened. It's not even like they're trying to do a bad job.

That's not a knock on them as professionals. But a lot of times they get thrown different claims for different lines of business from four different companies. And now you just, you can't, you're never going to get as good of experience as all I do is adjust. this company and I know the product's inside and out. I know the forms inside and out. So that's one of the things I try to look at. And again, it means more to me on commercial than personal. Yeah, no, that's fair. And, you know, to be honest, I've been on the sales side a lot. I've

had a few personal lines losses. Luckily, most of them have gone a good direction. You know, I haven't seen it. You know, I mean, I just, my book's small, books growing. And now, it makes sense to me. The other thing I was going to say is the D to C is kind of rough. You can have a third-party adjust or whatever else, but you want to have a of that broker relationship, not to be biased. You know, kind of coach people through it a little bit. You can be biased on this show. Yeah.

You know, I just think we still have a spot just because, you know, we're emotional beings. You know, we're not totally rational. And, you know, the shit hits the fan. You want a relationship. You know, you want somebody's been there since before the fallout or whatever you're working on and can help you navigate, get back quick, you know. Yeah, I was talking to an agent buddy of mine today. And he said, he said, he, he, what he was explaining his business model and I'm an enormous.

I'm a fan of it and I don't want to blow up his spot for a couple different reasons. So I'm not going to name him, but somebody, I think a lot of listeners in the show would probably know if I said his name. And he was describing his model, which he described as, and now that I'm about to bring it up, I'm going to get it slightly wrong, but you'll get the gist, which was essentially different people, same process, every customer, right? Every customer is going to, their relationship is to the process, not to the person. And his point was, I want to be flexible with my team, both from a sales and from a service

perspective, to know that you're going to call and you don't need to get Brett, right? Because Brett doesn't do car changes as well as John and the service team does car changes, right? The process is Brett is your problem solver and your program builder. And then once that program is built, sold and you're with our agency, now John or John and one his peers, Sally and Tammy and Timmy and Tommy, you know, they handle service and, you know, and the relationship is to the process, to the fact that you know there's someone there and it is a human. It may be different people, but the process is what you believe in because that's what helps serve you the best. And he, he was much better in the way that he explained it. So I'm

doing disjustice. If he listens, he'll know and he'll probably be laughing because I'm butchering the way he said it. But I said that is what we're doing at Rogue. And I hadn't really positioned it that way. But it is what I, it is a version of the traditional relationship that I believe works very well for higher volume and or more digitally oriented agencies. And I certainly believe that it is one of the models that sets you up for success in the future. Yeah. No, it's Adam Smith differentiation of labor and reminds of like the founder. You know, McDonald's said itself up to be hyper-efficient. Yeah.

I'll plug, you know, a little company to help out working with Faneo that's coming to the, you know, the states from Canada. They're working on some really cool built-in automation. It's not there yet, but to have recommended good, better best, to have these service policies, but they still believe, like, the ball's got me in the agent's court, you know, you're enabling the producer to use tech to better serve the client. So, you know, I definitely see a hybrid future. You know, I don't see us going anywhere.

No, I don't, I don't either. I think, I think the days of. the chest thumping, you know, and I always, I give, I give crothers a hard time for this all the time. But like, you know, he, he, he is training the next generation of these men and women. You know, the chest thumping middle market producers. I think that I think they'll still always exist. I don't think that you, I think that that, they're, I think that middle market commercial is the last bastion of that ideal, though, in my opinion. I think that, you know, you, you, I think what a producer is, what an insurance professional is today is going to drastically change.

I think for a long time. It's been, when you think insurance professional, you think producer. And I will tell you one of the issues, and I, you know, Matt, Matt Jagger, who I just hired to our team. Oh, congrats by the way. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. He's, he's been awesome and fits, fits in amazingly with our team and him and Sarah. I feel very blessed. I've been able to bring two people on. I feel incredibly confident in and have really, and Sydney Roe can attest to this. They've taken to my more hands-off leadership style very well. And that's, it's been good. But my point in saying that is in in that process of hiring, I realized that what I'm, what I was hiring for and what a traditional producer is seen at. are not the same thing. And that I think the idea of an insurance professional is drastically changing, more technologist, more marketer, you know, like more of a Renaissance person than a I sell policies.

You don't mean? Like if that makes sense. No, you're 100% correct. So when the pandemic hit, I used to do something called broker brews. We do a digital one. And then I did one with some like leader buddies for insure tech. And then I did one with like young. we do these zooms, right? I sent Zoom fatigue, so I started messing around the podcast. I had fun

with it, but was a little all over place, ensured some startups last year, not a lot of premium, a lot of work. And I realized between Faneo and everything else going on, I couldn't really nurture my own pipeline as much as I should. So I doubled down on the auto space with my buddy Ed, who loves it. You know, he ran a big marine agency for a number of years, but loves classic autos. And it's been phenomenal, helping him build like an auto-focused podcast, helping him market, help him cold call a little bit to dealerships, making friends there, selling a couple of garages. But he's passionate about classic cars, the auto industry, and we're selling insurance to it. We're making podcasts, we're making YouTube videos, and we can sell product.

It's perfect. You know, I'm thrilled to see him just building a brand and join it, and we're transacting business. It's perfect. You know, that Renaissance man kind of project like you're saying. Yeah. I've always looked for allies. You know what I mean? Like, I like playing sports.

I joke. I want to be the seventh best guy on the basketball court. You know, it's terrible when you're 10th. And if you're the first best, it's boring, you know? Like, I like hunting with people. You know, even I know your wife's a badass. My wife's in PT school. You know, she's getting doctorate.

Like, I'm looking for people are going to challenge me. We can grow and win together. You know, I'm not looking for people to pat me on the butt. I'm too nice to everyone. So everyone's too nice to me. I need people are going to challenge me and help me kind of grow and go forward. Yeah, I love, I'm the exact same way. I get bored with people who just tell me I'm doing things right very quickly.

I would not have married the woman that I married if that was what I was looking for. And I don't mean that a negative way. That comes off very negative. I mean, she's a high performer. And she expects me to be a high performer along with her. And that's a good thing. And I'm with you. I also thrive in a team environment.

I recently took on two partners in my business who will remain anonymous for now. small, small, but I needed some people who are more than just emotionally invested in rogue who could be sounding boards and that I could have on speed dial. And I didn't just want to pay a consultant as much as there are some amazing consultant in our space. I don't mean that to come off negative to anyone who does consulting. I needed some, I personally needed something more, someone who was kind of, you know, very committed. and just having those two people just allowed me to talk through different things and it has taken me from, I will say, a foggy vision of what I wanted to rogue to be to now we have a laser-focused vision on who we are, what we're going to be,

how we're going to attack the market. And then that has allowed me to bring in Sarah and Matt, who've amplified. And it's funny. And I want to, after you answer this question, I would like you to level set for everyone all the things you actually do because that's, we never got to that part. But, you know, I think, why do you think it is? Like, what do you think that is about having a team? Because there are people who want to be solo, right?

Like, what do you think it is that having a team brings out in you that allows you to be a better version of yourself. One of three brothers. You know, I'm in the middle. Always grew up playing sports. Actually, naturally good long distance runner, but I always joke if God was like,

you can be good at, you know, be a quarterback or shooting guard. You know, like, I had somebody tell me one time that means I'm egotistical. I was like,

I don't know. It's just fun. I don't know. Success on her own, like, it's more fun seeing the bank account go up when your spouse is there to you. It'd be like,

wow, that's pretty cool. You know, this is going up, not that it goes up that often. So I guess, yeah, for background, probably most relevant was doing office moving sales and a friend who's same age, but I would say a little bit more mature, a little bit smarter, was like, hey, you should check out insurance, good industry.

So I got my P&C license to try to see where leases were going to go or building purchases, but as a way to put my toe in the water, did that for like three years while moving companies. And then I thought my dad was going to buy it when the writing was on the wall that he wasn't going to buy the moving company. He was always a scratch call for a commission salesman. Great salesman. I got to work with him for six years. older brother. It was badass. Like, you know, any positive traits I have selling with him.

You know, I worked at church for three years, a lot of good, you know, influence. Anyway, it's personal lines for a year with the ability network and commercial. I wonder kind of mess with my paycheck at the end of the year. Small business, weird things happen. You know, six months that I thought was in Chertech was kind of Leeds company, goofy experience, got recruited something else, goofy experience for three months, was like, screw it, I'm going to go out of my own, go back to restaurants, bartend. That was like three and a half years ago. Didn't know what I didn't know.

Was on my own for six months, sold some personal lines. Didn't realize how sticky the commercial relationships were, how hard it is to move that paper, what a long road that is. So hopped up my buddy's benefit shop for a year and a half. Did P&C there, great place to cut my teeth. You know, he's corporately trained, you know, really knows this stuff.

Year ago got back out on my own year and change. And I got a business partner, Ed, who's 57, who's ran a National Marine Agency before, you know, 20 employees, six locations. Similar, you know, he lost a job two years before, had a goofy stint. I was like, dude, you're too knowledgeable. Like, this needs to be like your master class. You know, at the time he was like 55, 56, we started talking.

I was like, make a good 10 years. It's built something worthwhile. You know, and we have all my tech goofiness versus his ability to actually run a company and make sure we're making money, which apparently is important. I found out later. That's what everyone says. Apparently, yeah, that's the rumor. So luckily through.

you know, insurance nerds, Lamperelli, you know, being friends with guys like yourself. You know, my buddy's up in Canada, you know, Faneo kind of heard of me, knew of me. And I was independent. So I was like, yeah, I can get you licensed. I don't know life insurance as well as I should, but I'm licensed. Like, how can I help? So we started working together about two and a half years ago. Really cool relationship.

Going from, you know, small, goofy business to hang out around a VC back startup. It was like trying to row canoe to hopping on a little battleship, you know, and like, it's been fun and like work really closely with one of the co-founder's Donald he's a great businessman get to learn from him so they're working hand in hand you know Blake lets us use his address to start we end up getting our own little address so that's all grown together when Ed and I get going you know you're in change ago he's like hey I have this program or friend with a lending CRM would you want to try to build the AMS I was like dude you're nuts like we're trying the hardest thing the world to get like a scratch agency going and you want to build like a CRM AMS I'm like

you're out of your mind, but like he had been open to me. So I'm like, okay, sure, you know, starts off as this little quiet project. I let Allie and Donald know. I'm like, hey, by the way, this is random. I swear I didn't mean to get into something else. Just want to let you know before this goes out in the public, like, no problem. I was like, I'm saving life for us on there. We built, and I'll show it to you afterwards, but a really cool light CRM, you could dump in a CSV file, moving over to prospects, active, inactive. load up documents. There's something else. It's not public yet. I'll tell you about later. You close that business. It can drop right into the agency management side of house.

The point isn't be cost effective, but it is cost effective. We're building it for the small guys, the one to two main agencies. You know, want to help out marine, want to help aviation, you know, kind of the unloved little corners of our industry. Yeah. So just a happy accident. And we're eating our own dog food. We have, you know, 60-ish clients there ourselves, 60% probably personal lines probably 30% commercial 10% life we hit it for all verticals because that's kind of rare but this bootstrap little thing there's four of us out of southern california working on it just a real happy accident um but yeah so the three main horses are the brokerage which i'm lucky that ed's living in and running and i just try to help out with prospecting and kind of back end the CRMAMS

which is actually you know somebody else's company that we're all partnering to build and then you know fina is the big venture back start up that I've been lucky to, you know, they've got to me out to Toronto twice, you know, just really cool. And you know what's like when you're out there trying to build, like you said, it's kind of lonely. So having the Feneo team while working on my own stuff has been a nice blend of like community, thought building and then also my own shingle. So I don't want to sound full of shit. Like I don't, you know, like I want to sell business. I want to be in the paperwork. I don't want to pretend to have done more than I have, but I'm working on insurance every day. I have lists of

things I need to do right here, you know, so try to add some authenticity. to work with the startups, which I've enjoyed. But dude, thanks for helping me get a jumpstart, you know, with the early podcast, just giving perspective to all this shit. It's fun to be on here, you know? Yeah. Well, it was funny was we communicate so often in the digital space that it, like, hit me one day.

I was like, I've never had bread on a show. So then I, like, immediately stopped what I was doing. I was like, yo, you got to just come on show. And you're like, oh, yeah, well, you know, I was like, no, no. Just, I'm going to send a time. Just come on. And you can come on again if you got something else to, but like, Like it was it was weird to me that that you hadn't been on.

And, you know, if this is, this is probably not a surprise to our regular listeners, but there is no formal invite process. No, yeah. The Ryan Hanley show. It is, I just kind of like, oh, that person would be fun or, oh, I haven't talked to them in a while or someone will, people reach out. There's like a, there's just no formal process. I appreciate, though.

I kind of feel like, you know, I'll call it like business big brother or something of those. Fun when I ran into the ITC too. We got to meet up. that's always cool. Yeah, that was cool. Remember Christopher Franklin would be like, Brett Flores was a lot bigger than you'd think. That's right, yeah.

It's funny. That feels like a lifetime ago, too. Like 2018, right? So it was that three years ago? I just lost the job like three months before. Went out there, had a broker bruise the night before ITC and then just drove back. I spent $60 on my hotel room,

180 on the happy hour, drove out and drove back. Yeah, now it's fun hacking it together. But yeah, dude, you were open. I mean, it's funny to say it this way. like you've been known, you've been around a long time, and I felt very considered even before I started being on the scene more. You know, so thanks for, you know, being down to earth.

Yeah. As much as I've actually done anything in what you just said, thank you. I appreciate it. It's funny. I get, I, I, you know, you're describing where you are, right? You have this agency. You also have two startups that you're a part of. And I think for a lot of people listening that, for some people listening, they may be nodding their head going, oh, yeah, that's cool.

And for other people, they're going, geez, what is wrong with these guys? Why don't they just focus on one thing? And I will say, because I've thought about this a lot, right? Because even doing this podcast, I'm doing a podcast. It's 1 o'clock in the afternoon on a Thursday and the day that we're recording it, you know, whenever you're listening to, it'll be later. but um and there's a lot of people that if they were my life coach they would say why are you doing that like don't do that like you're you should be quoting policies or building automations or doing any other number of things to rogue that aren't this and then i also like i said i'm

have maybe it's probably half a dozen companies that i'm advising for and then the number of other things that I do during a week that aren't just rogue would would probably make a lot of agency owners want to barf. That being said, you know, I don't know, you know, I think, you know, I think you could probably relate to this and I'm just interested in your perspective. You know, I go back and forth. Like I don't know how to be any other way. Like I see projects that I want to be involved in that I think are interesting, whether

they're interesting for rogue or not, right? There's projects that I'm involved in that I give feedback on and attend regular phone calls for to, you know, as an advisor. They'll never be, I mean, they're all insurance. Everything I do is insurance industry. They'll never be, they'll never use the product. Not not just, it just doesn't fit what I'm doing. Not, not that I think it's a bad. Obviously, I don't think it's a bad product. I'm, I'm advising them. And I just think that I don't know how to be any other way. I just, I don't know how to, How do you look at something that looks interesting and go, me, nah, I don't know. I'm with you.

I've thought about a few different ways. I tend to try to think like a VC and not literally back horses that overlap. They can kind of like go up next to each other. Like Faneo, for instance, it's kind of like a cover wall, but for a life financial planning insurance, the CRM AMS can plug into Faneo and then I can use both as an agency. and I can solve through Faneo's pipes I can recruit to Faneo. I think it is important to touch projects,

highlight projects that you don't have any equity in, like clear cover that you don't have skin in the game on because I think it provides an error of authenticity. I think that there's a network effect to you that by touching these things I can overlap. Like I actually hang out, and I haven't lately because I'm not trying to insure startups right now just because they're too all over the place.

I'm going to try to work on a classic industry. But I would hang in a fintech slash. You know, I actually don't pay that much attention to our industry for being around as much as I am. I kind of don't care. Like I'm playing my game. I'm trying to help the people that I'm friends with. I'm trying to build business. And none of my clients give a shit about broker Brett. You know, no of my clients care that I'm lucky to have doors open within our industry. To me, I try to be as active as I can around the insure tech stuff to get doors open. And I'm just trying to get the best spears as early as I can to go hunt as well as I can. And I do appreciate having a business partner who's 57, who will call spade a spade and he'll hang with these insured texts with me.

And sometimes the stuff makes sense. And sometimes he's like, that doesn't really pass the sniff test. Like we actually need the clients to use that. How are they going to get us the clients? All that information is great, but who's coming in the door? You know, like, so just balance. And for me, it was having a business partner who can live in the agency so I can touch the other stuff. You know, that was helpful.

Yeah. You know, yeah, try to be reasonable. I try to help my brother's cooler startup and my wife shut me down. She's like, hey, it has to be insurance. Yeah. Kind of. That's funny. Yeah.

So there's a little bit of that. To me, it's so random. But Feneo being on the East Coast is helpful and then trying to build a business in the West Coast. So I can do a lot of that tech stuff in the morning, you know, and then cold calling whatever in the afternoon. Little things like that kind of line up, you know, pretty good. Yeah.

That's cool. I will say that, yeah, I keep my eyes a big part of, This podcast that I do, part of it is I just like talking to people. Part of it is, and I've said this a bunch, I feel an obligation to add as much value back to this industry that has changed my life, right? I mean, my kids live in a nice suburban home and go to a nice school because, you know, very, very much unlike me, you know, my youth, because, you know, I of this industry because of my wife and her family and and what this industry is brought. So I feel an obligation to give back as much as possible.

And the other side of it is, like just like you said, I think by by engaging, by getting to know people, by taking a half hour on a Friday to hear someone's story, you know, and learn from them and give them some feedback and connect them to people, you're gathering intel constantly and building, karma in the world, you know, you're building credits that you can exchange down the line for things that you might need, right? Hey, can you introduce me to insert this person that

helps you deliver more value to your customers or whatever? And while I agree with and believe that focus is very much important, at the same time, if there's any, if there's any, if If there's any through thread to my own career, it's serendipity, and that's only through constant connection and value delivery. What's up, guys? Sorry to take you away from the episode, but as you know, we do not run ads on this show. In an exchange for that, I need your help. If you're loving this episode, if you enjoy this podcast, whether you're watching on

YouTube or you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, I would love for you to subscribe, share, comment if you're on YouTube, leave a rating review if you're on Spotify or Apple iTunes, etc. This helps the show grow. It helps me bring more guests in. We have a tremendous lineup of people coming in, men and women who've done incredible things, sharing their stories around peak performance, leadership, growth, sales, the things that are going to help you grow as a person and grow your business. But they all check out comments. ratings, reviews, they check out all this information before they come on. So as I reach out to more and more people and want to bring them in and share their stories with you,

I need your help. Share the show. Subscribe if you're not subscribed. And I love for you to leave a comment about the show because I read all the comments. Or if you're on Apple or Spotify, leave a rating, review of this show. I love you for listening to this show. And I hope you enjoy it listening as much as I do, creating the show for you. All right.

I'm out of here. Peace. Let's get back to the episode. Yeah. Lamperelli, I feel lucky to be kind of mentored by him. When I was in between, I lost that job doing my own thing. Him and Stephen Goldstein were really the two that were like, no, just figure it out one way or another. Just go build, be helpful.

He would say it's about the relationships. He's like, I don't care for anybody watches or listens to it. I have somebody for an hour that I really get to connect with and we're fighting the same fight. We're in the same battle. You know, like that to him was what it was all about. Yeah. And I think, you know, being a partner in a broker.

And to be honest, like, we haven't 50-50 because, like, that's a grown-ass man and he's a solid dude and you want to go to war together. I care about building my business. Like, I'll take a lot of pride when that thing's freaking chugging. You know what I mean? Like, this stuff's really cool. This stuff open the doors. But to me, that's the crown jewel I'm chasing is like, wow, you know, we figured out the mousetrap and, you know, we can deploy other people to do the same thing. You know, even candidly, the name sets itself up to once we feel like we have it, you know, we can deploy other insurance.

center you know other people get rolling but we got to figure out how to make our own stuff work first yeah and and that's the i'll tell you early on one of the things that i have um one of the things that i have struggled now i won't say struggled struggled struggled struggled is is not the right word one of the things that is tough mentally is when you see where you want to go with your product or with your experience that you want to provide and you know who you want to be but you don't yet have the volume or the you know you're just not there from a cash flow standpoint to put it in place you know and eating eating the fact that you're not delivering at the level that you want to deliver um yet is tough sometimes you know what I mean

it's like, I know what I want Rogue to be. We're not there yet. You know what I mean? We're not. I mean, if someone were to come in and snapshot our business today, I'm sure any number of people could poke a million holes in our operation. That's the main in the ring versus the commentator, dude. And nothing's perfect.

So not to piggyback to, you know, my main horse. I've been hanging out with that Faneo in Canada, watertight, plugged in end to end, going into carriers, super clean, super fluid. but rolling out in California first in the U.S. And the back-end connectivity is not there yet, for instance. There's a few other things that we would love to do here, that they can't do here that are up in Canada. I'm still talking to people.

I still have to say, this is what we got, this is today, this is where it ends, this is where we want to go. This is what we're planning on doing. And I think that's okay, as long as you're authentic, you know, as long as you're like, these are the tools we're offering. These are things we'd love to offer. This is what we're working on and we grow this together.

We want your feedback. You know, we're regularly going to meet as a team of three of how we can make your client experience better. This is what we got for you today. This is what we want to have for you. We appreciate being in this relationship for a lifetime. There's a 93% retention rate. We hope to be 100% relationship.

You're getting these services today, but in 10 years, I hope you're getting 10 times the services. I think that's fine. You know, I think just the candidness, you know, plus I have a feeling whatever your offering is going to be at or above what they're getting anyways or what they're getting from somebody else.

So you're already starting in a good spot. It might not be your, you know, presentation, like vision casted perfection, but who cares? Nobody, nobody actually cares about us. We're critical of ourselves. You know, we're trying to do it. They just want good honest people to provide insurance that's going to do its job. You know, it's all. So, you know, just in general, what, like, as you're building this agency, right? So we're both building agencies that are fairly close in age. When did you launch? So technically, three years ago and changed, but then I kind of shelved my own initiatives to sort of learn at my buddies and to help Faneo. And then last March,

me and Ed decided to kind of go on a fair again, like 17th or something. Oh, I got you by eight days. Yeah, exactly. So as peers, it sounds like it were not in each other's minutia, you're ahead of us, you know, and you got three people and it's me and Ed just rolling up our sleeves themselves, you know? So like, it's all perspective. And I'm sure there's somebody out there who would love to have relationships and the connections I have to open doors or even like the number of people I have on LinkedIn or Instagram. It's that whole like you can always look at somebody else and be jealous. The problem where I think it's going to be hard on you is just the people you're running with, but we're all playing our own game. I just listened to a great book called The Psychology of Money.

And it's like, you can't really pick on other people or you shouldn't really judge them because everyone's coming at this game from a different lens. You don't understand circumstances. is how I handle credit cards as a kid who grew up in LA County, kind of middle to maybe slightly lower times to upper middle income. It's going to be different than my best friend who grew up in Yorba Linda and their family has a third generation machine shop with 200 employees. I'm going to do stuff he thinks is dumb, but as a salesman who's been like overextended times,

like I might have these mission critical decisions that are less than ideal, but this is how I'm living. You know, we're all on our own journey. As long as you're challenging yourself, like I'm jealous of where you're at. I'm sure somebody is jealous of me and I'm sure somebody's jealous of the person who's jealous of me. You know, as long as we're all striving, I think we're doing fine, you know. Yeah, I agree with you. I also, I am a big, big proponent of not.

So Jordan Peterson, I've talked about him on the show before. I'm going to he. I think 12 rules of life. I listened to that book. That was awesome. Yeah, that book is right up there. His next one beyond order I'm reading right now. I just somehow building a startup doesn't lend itself to, uh,

reading time. Now, I'm sure there's someone who's like, oh, I just get up earlier, but just tough. That being said, so I'm not as far along and beyond order as I'd like to be, but 12 rules for life, as much as a book has, it changed my vantage point on life. And one of the things that he says in that book is, do not compare yourself to anyone else, compare yourself to who you were yesterday. So are you better today than you were the day before? Like just, just win this day, just be better today than you were yesterday. Don't worry about anyone else. And I think that's while at face that. Easier said than done. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's powerful. I think it's easier said than done. I think it also can be brushed off as trite. But I think if you let it sink in

and use it as a construct, it's very, very important. And the reason for that is I'll use an example. So I pay for. It's the second most expensive thing that I pay for in my agency on a month-a-month basis, Donna for agents, which is a analytics platform. It's way more than that. It's the balls. I kind of love it. In full transparency, they are also a sponsor, but I pay out of pocket for it. So it's not, I don't get it for free. I pay for it. And if you were to look at my agency, you would say, you don't need that. And you don't. I don't need it to be successful. It does, it does not today make me more money than yes. Now, if I was in this, you know, five years from now, I know it will. So that's, so, so I am making an investment and building into the fabric and

culture of my agency, analytics and data, because I believe so strongly in what they will do for my agency. And I don't want to wait three years and then try to backdoor it in. I'm going to make it part of the core of who we are. We're going to analyze what's happening. We're going to think through our data and our clients and how we can service them better and where gaps are and we're going to find them. And that's going to be part of who we are, not something, not a nice to have down the road. And I think that's a decision that some agency owners would make, some wouldn't make. I've decided to make that decision. And I think that if there are people who go, oh, you know, you get to have that. I'm like, not get to have. I pay for that. Like,

That's something like I write the check every month for that thing. And just like everything else, no one likes to see their credit card go, Bing, you know, you just paid, you know, this amount for this thing. And you're like, uh-huh, you know, but, but the point is that I could say that to you and you can go, that's great, don't need it.

Right. And that has to, we have to be okay with that, right? I think, I think that's the thing to your point about, um, jealousy or comparing ourselves to others. I look at some of, some of the people that that are that I aspire to be like like David Carruthers right I talk about him

all the time of the show the dude is just a killer of a salesman just has it thinks about in a different way the levels of you know the levels that he thinks about while selling in terms of connecting and connecting different ideas and examples and stories I just don't think that way I just don't. And, you know, I think you, I could be jealous of that or I could just be happy to know him, learn what I can and be aspirational. And it's, it's really difficult, I think, because there are times when like he'll post something. I mean, I'm just like anybody else, right? He'll post something about just writing a $50,000 account. And he's using it as an educational thing. And in my mind, I'm like, you son of a bitch, I die for a $50,000 revenue. Are you kidding me? Take my pinky finger

right now. You can have it. You know? So it's like, it's just, tough things. These are the things that we have to deal with emotionally. I kind of want to backtrack to your Donna for agents. Big fan of like plan the work, work to plan and begin with the end of mind. You know, it's sort of like if you're framing up a house and you knew you wanted a second story, like you would put in the stairs and let's go and plumbing. You know where you want to go, man. I don't fault that at all. I think it's smart. I don't, and this is funny to say, I don't feel like naturally the best salesman in the world. I get along with people. You know, when I said I was getting the sales, my brother's like, you're the nicest guy in the world, but you're a bull.

dog, he's like, you'll be fine. So he was confident, but I'm self-conscious of my own, you know, kill mentality or whatever, but I looked at sales is the doorstep to small business. I looked at small business is the ability to be independent. And I'm always chasing kind of independence, libertarian, whatever else. So that's why I think I got into sales was more for the potential fiscal related freedom, not even like to be rich, but to just kind of control your own time, energy, be a part of what you want to be a part of. I don't know. My little brother's a better salesman than I am. He's great. He sells cars, you know, works at Dodge dealership. He crushes it. How come he's not working for the agency? We fight too much. We can't get off a phone call

without yelling at each other half the time. Can't make that car money. I think he make, they make good money. Don't sleep on a nice Dodge Chrysler Jeep dealership. So funny, we're 21 months apart. I would joke that like seven years a piece, three years of war growing up, he's still the only person ever punched me in the face. I had two black eyes and bloody nose. He's a shot putter, you know, lineman, football player, which I actually, is kind of twisted, but

as a brother, I almost appreciate it and punched in the face once so you can do it, you're like, oh, okay, that wasn't that bad. The rest of your life, you kind have that in back pocket. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, dude. I'm, I'm dyslexic. I've got to talk about that more now. I think I was more self-conscious about talking about it before. I am very good

at connecting the dots, putting things together, you know, seeing around corners a little bit, but I have other shortcomings, you know, and I play with the skill set that I have and I do my best, you know, and just keep showing up, you know, I think that's the other part of this game. Yeah, I, um, I was Brett blessed to, to pick up pretty early in my career, and I don't know where I got this from exactly, probably just a string of decent managers and, and leaders in different businesses that I was in, where, the concept of, you know, know what you're good at and just do not get rid of your ego and everything else, right? Just know this. That might be the baseball player in you because

baseball players are very narrow, you know, like. Could be. You know, I, I don't know. I don't know exactly what it was, but I've just always operated from a mentality of if I'm not good at something, I want someone else to do it. And I have standards and I have, uh, a belief structure on quality and that doesn't mean because I think I think a common a common misconception in our space is that like if an agency owner has someone else do that thing, whatever that thing is that somehow they're less than oh you don't do that like I'll be honest with you if I never if I never sold another insurance policy the rest of my life I'd be perfectly happy. It's it's something I do today. I do it less because Matt is part of the team

who I talked about. Hopefully in the near future, I can hire another salesperson because we have enough volume. And then maybe I can only, then I'll only sell direct referrals. And then hopefully I'll never, ever, ever, ever have to sell another policy.

And I'll be honest for you, I will, that will be a huge win in my book. Yeah. Well, the thing is you have knocked the doors. You have done the personal sales. You've done the one-to-one sales. I think you need to be, as a leader, I think you can't be perfect everything,

but I think you got to touch. the org, top to bottom. I think it's important to know the guys at the bottom of the org. I've learned a lot of that stuff from my best friend, Mike, like their machine shop. He knows the guys at the bottom. He's working machines. He's set the floors. I mean, I'm still making cold calls for Faneo to agents one to one. I'm still calling garages and dealerships for Newport Beach Insurance Center. I'm literally using the CRM AMS that we built to try to sell business to. And I do it just because that's where we are today. And I'm with you. At some point, I'm going to have to step back. But you've done.

those things that allow you to lead and understand what other people are doing. You know, as long as you're, as long as you can wrap yourself around what you're asking people to do. Yeah, ideally you want smarter, more talented, more specialized people to be doing things than you are, you know, so you build a team. That's how you win. I think ideally because that's your mindset and my mindset and it's one of the blessings I think of working in a couple different technology startups because I do think it's very much the culture of technology startups is is cohesively work a team of specialists cohesively working together at pace right i think that's a big part of the culture of these and transferred into the insurance

industry i think it's an enormous competitive advantage i do not think it is as culturally accepted in our space as maybe you and i would think that it is that that's my perspective i could be wrong. I just, well, I think there's two things at play. I heard the reason why SF sort of took off over Boston, because for a while it's some like tech wise or similar, was you have a very flat paradigm on the West Coast. Everyone has a voice. Everyone's contributing growing, but the East is a little bit more hierarchical because it's been around longer. And I think in our industry, when you get to those structures that have been in place, for good reason, lethargy is also like a protective measure. If you have a big thing,

you don't want to pivot it real quick and fall off a cliff. If things are working, let them keep working. I think startups and I think scratch agencies are trying to do the impossible. You know, they're getting funding to try to build a flywheel to grow past the incumbent. So I think when when shit's crazy, you know, Allie from Faneo open to what I have to say, Donald opened to what I've said, it's all hands on deck. It's like we're trying to do the impossible. Whoever can bail water, whoever can help by all means, get in here, let's help us do this shit, but I can get where, you know, if an agency's set up, if there's a structure in place, you want to maintain. If you're paying the bills, if you've hit your number, I think you talked about

that with Meg Whitman. You kind of check out a little, you know, and I think you and I both are hungry. I like the game. To me, I broke my hand when I was 30. I used to play in like three men's leagues a week, my 20s basketball. I love basketball. But I'm lucky that like startups and sales have kind of taken over my sports itch. I feel like this is where I compete. Like I run. I run. a lot, but this is where I, like, feel like I win and I lose and I, you know, feel lucky to gain some ground. And, you know, Ed's never sold before. It is so freaking cool.

He's taking deal soup to nuts, you know, and it's like so freaking cool, you know, and we're just winning together, competing together. I had a carrier call for Faneo the other day that went really well. I was floored, you know, like to me, that felt levels beyond, you know, what I'm expecting to do, you know, I was, I was really jazzed, you know. No, I knew. Yeah. I do. I think it's funny, man. I feel, and I think we share, I think we share this because in many regards, I think our paths and what we do on a day-to-day basis are fairly similar. And so much as,

you know, to be able to touch as many things, Bill, have as many conversations, to be able to say, if someone calls or emails or texts and I get a lot of them and I don't ever tell anyone no, you know, sometimes I just can't help people. I can attest to that from when I haven't been as known. You know what I mean? You were still open, dude. Appreciate it. You just, I'll be honest to you yet.

I get as much enthusiasm. I had a call with a prospect on Friday of last week. If that deal closes, it literally changes the, it levels us up. It's, you know, we go from, we go, we jump in one of, you know, Mario jumps in one of those things that takes them from level two to level eight, you know, and, and it was awesome. Felt jacked, jacked up, you know, rolled into Duke's baseball game, like, you know, flying high. It was awesome. And then, you know, that weekend, I got a text from a guy who said, hey, you know, he had a problem.

And not a problem, but he had a, you know, he was trying to solve a problem. And I just said, hey, I'm going to send you an email right now and connect you to this person. They'll be able to help you. And I did that. And I felt just as jacked up about connecting, I'll never make it a dollar. It means it, it'll never, you know, it was nothing about finances. It was nothing about no one will ever, I'll never say what the thing was or what it was other than the situation.

And it was just that, I felt just as much energy out of that. And I was like, I feel when I first got into the industry, and this is what I'll say on this. And, you know, is that when I first got into this industry and this, This isn't ubiquitous. So please don't anyone who's been around for a long time take this negatively. But there was much more of a general sense of stay in your space. Don't share.

People will steal from you. They'll steal your producers. They'll steal your ideas. They'll steal your clients. You know, when I first started talking about digital marketing, people would ask me, should we put our carriers on our website?

Because we don't want our, we don't want our competitors to know what carriers we have. have. I mean, today, that concept, I think, to the average 45 and under insurance professional is bonkers, right? I mean, we, it completely bonkers. But just a decade ago, you did not do that. You didn't, because you didn't tell anyone what carriers you have. And I love today that we're in this space where we're so open, so willing to share. You have agents who would have, who a decade ago would have been thought as competitors sitting on the same advisory boards. the same state association boards, starting, you know, JVs with each other to attack certain markets.

I mean, it's just, it's so, it's such a fantastic time to be in our space. It's just fun. Not to be too, like, talking heady. I got lucky that to a guy when I was youth past from 1821 was pretty like reflective, I guess, kind of made us consider a lot of stuff. But you compare the internet to the printing press. You know, we went from competing with our neighbor because it was analog and there was like a main street to I think today you want to have that main street look.

to build your company almost in a boring way like a grandpa would trust but you want the digital reach yeah you know so i think we just the world changed you know we went from competing with our neighbor to realizing yeah we can go as far as fast as we want to go you know and like i think it's cool man i'm with you i definitely like the blue ocean mentality to go back to kyle nakasugi which i feel like i'm messing that up i've heard the siggo guys say really nice things about him i've heard loop insurance say really nice things about them technically these should be his competitors but i think that abundance mindset you know same thing like there's a joke that Napoleon would only uh you know get generals that consider themselves lucky because if you think you're lucky you stay open you know and you

find a you find a an opportunity you know you have a plan um no it's fun man i love the next cohort you know and i feel lucky to be a part of it i you know i sold copiers i work constructions i sold office moves for six years this industry is awesome i mean compared to having to manage a crew and do collections and whatever else like we're lucky our paperwork we're sucks it can be stressful but at the end of the day we got an annuity we're doing something that you can make a lot of money out and you're generally doing good for people that's freaking cool and i think what you're saying about that guy handing the thing off properly we just want loose ends to be taken care of we want people have good insurance products doesn't really matter if it goes through us or

somebody else there's really like a farmer kind of mentality i think to insurance as opposed to maybe commercial real estate you know where they're competing with each other for the same building Yeah. In the back of our mind, we just want people to be covered. You know, we just want good paper to be out there. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right, man. Well, we, we touched on a lot of topics in an hour. I can't believe it's already done an hour. It feels like it's been about 10 minutes. This is tremendous. And I got a few things I want to talk to you about offline. So let's, so if people want to get at you, they want to learn more about what you have going on. Great follow on Twitter for sure. You know, where, where can people, where can people get a hold of you?

Yeah. So LinkedIn. I actually think it's backslash broker brett. And I want to say it's broker underscore brett on Twitter too. BRETT at brokerbrette.com is probably the best one. I use it kind of like a little hub site. But yeah, broker underscore Brett on Twitter. Yeah, I would not pretend to have anything figured out, but happy to share what I'm up to, what I'm learning as I go.

And if you Google Feneo. Yeah, F-N-A-E-O. Or capital I-M-M-S. Yeah, CAPTA. IMS. Yeah, it's a fun way. Yeah, we'll cheat those in the show notes. Great down to earth people on both projects and feel very fortunate to be just helping

build stuff while building an agency. Yeah. Awesome, man. Well, I'm very glad that we finally got you on the show. I almost feel bad that it has taken so long. But I'm, you know, I mean this with the most sincerity. I'm glad that there are people out there like you who are so willing to spread themselves out because I know how stress.

that can be, but in an effort to help improve and provide value and just share ideas, I mean, that's how, that's how we all grow is the intermingling of people on different organizations cross-pollinating ideas. And I think that you're a big part of that. And I'm just happy to have you, man. So thanks for being here. Thanks, man. Likewise, thanks for going through the wall first. Close twice as many deals by this time next week. Sound impossible. It's not. With the one-call closed system, you'll stop chasing leads and start closing deals in one call. This is the exact method we use to close 1,200 clients under three years during the pandemic. No fluff, no endless follow-ups, just results fast.

Based in behavioral psychology and battle tested, the one-call closed system eliminates excuses and gets the prospect saying yes, more than you ever thought possible. If you're ready to stop losing opportunities and start winning, visit master of the close.com. That's master of theclothes.com. Do it today. If you like the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening. Happy holidays.

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