Finding Peak w/ Ryan Hanley - Efficiency Isn't the Answer in the Agency of the Future

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Starting point is 00:01:06 It really helps the show grow. From all of us at Believe, have a Merry Christmas, everyone, and a happy holiday. Crude Laboratory in the basement of his home. Well, everyone and welcome back to the show. Today we have what will hopefully be a tremendous episode with you. When I do these solo episodes, I never actually know if they're going to be good or bad. But I'd like to think it's going to be tremendous. So we're going to talk about a couple experiences that I've had a little bit about rogue,

Starting point is 00:01:50 what's going on in terms of how it kind of relates to those experiences, quick story of how it all relates back to Blockbuster, Netflix, and what we as an independent insurance industry need to be thinking about as we move into the future. Lately, I've been asked to talk about kind of where the puck is going. What does the agency of the future look like? which is a common topic, I guess you could say, not so common for me in that it is not often what I am asked to speak about. Most people just want to hear about like inbound lead generation.

Starting point is 00:02:24 But building out Rogue is kind of giving me a PhD and building the agency of the future. And I want to talk a little bit about how all these stories relate to that. So this is going to be a quick, punchy episode, mostly because it's 1140 a.m. on a Friday and I have a noon call, so we're going to be fast and furious today, but I think that's fine because everything I want to share is fairly tightly packed, and I just want to get this out, get it in front of you, because it's kind of thoughts that have been on my head, and I want to share them with you.

Starting point is 00:03:00 So before we get there, I just want to talk a little bit about Rogue in particular, and the key, or specifically what I want to. to talk to you about is we're hiring. We are hiring a lot. We are moving into kind of Rogue 2.5, you could say, where, you know, Rogue 1 was really just me and a couple of my core employees that have been with me for a while. Because Rogue 2.0 is the immediate post-acquisition version of Rogue where we, you know, kind of ramped up our producer force, hired a couple more CSAs and some supporting people and kind of started to prove out the model, our select and premier model and what that looks like.

Starting point is 00:03:45 You know, we just had a month where we did almost $2 million in premium production. So I'd like to believe that while I don't think right now every month will be that big, will probably be a little choppy. There'll be some volatility as we bounce around in that range. But there is no doubt that the rogue model is proving to be effective, to be. efficient and to be something that can be duplicated by those with the vision and guts to do so and much of my mission beyond my role as CEO of Just Rogue and the larger SIA ecosystem is to help SIA members and independent agencies see what we're

Starting point is 00:04:30 doing understand what we're doing and potentially be able to implement that through different technology solutions, processes, cultural aspects of company culture, strategy, all that kind of stuff. And one of the things that just kind of keeps coming back to my mind is this idea that efficiency isn't always the answer. It's not efficiency isn't always the answer. And it's a big part of the human optimized concept, right? You need humans for your business to retain.

Starting point is 00:05:02 Now, granted, you can listen to every D to C. VC-backed insuretech a-hole who tells you that you don't need humans to sell insurance. And frankly, outside of maybe more robust middle market, I think that's probably true. You do not need humans to sell small business and personal lines. You just don't. However, you need humans to retain that business. And if you want to retain that business, it starts by having humans involved in the sale. So if you're just looking to build a company and spin it off to some large,

Starting point is 00:05:36 enterprise, like what travelers did with simply business or whatever, then go get some VC money, hammer out some process where you spend a whole bunch on paid ads and, you know, lead flow and then have a non-human-based sales process where you just pound that business through, and regardless of how efficient or inefficient it is, you're, you know, you're just ringing that cash register in a new business. And then the best part is you won't have to prove out any of your retention numbers by the time. some unsuspecting middle-mark middle executive at some large company who's looking to make a name for themselves comes in and makes you an offer and buys you and everything's great except that's not the

Starting point is 00:06:14 business that any of us are running nor is it the business that any of you listening to this podcast want to run right you care about your customers but you do need to grow because carriers are putting more pressure on agencies that aren't growing there's a whole cultural concept or cultural conversation that's happening in the ecosystem right now around growth versus lifestyle agencies and the amount of resources you put into growth-based agencies versus the amount of resources you put in lifestyle-based agencies and what that means and how do you trigger them? And you may not even heard that terminology,

Starting point is 00:06:43 but I'm telling you it's happening behind the scenes with carriers and all kinds of different organizations. And if you're a lifestyle agency, as much as it is absolutely your prerogative and right specifically as an American to do that, you're not going to get the attention of resources that you may have gotten because you're not adding value back to the ecosystem in terms of growth. It doesn't mean you should do anything different.

Starting point is 00:07:03 just be aware that that's coming. So in order to get business on the books that sticks, that allows you to grow, to get that exponential growth that's possible by marrying the new business, the streamlined new business opportunities that exist in the market with real humans who build real connections with your customers

Starting point is 00:07:21 that ultimately get that business contained, to retain, sorry, you need to build a human-optimized business. So we are hiring at Rogue because that is our mission. You know, I'd like to believe I coined the phrase in our industry of human optimized and that's what we're doing every single day so we're hiring and we're hiring a lot and if you're out there and you're listening to this and you're looking

Starting point is 00:07:44 for the next big challenge in your career you want to come into to a fast growing business with a with a that's trying to do big things I mean look like I've said this before I'll say it again like I operate every day with a chip on my shoulder there are a bunch of people in this industry who gave me a whole lot of shit early on for things that I said for things that I supported, for concepts that I spread and talked about and had conversations around because I said it couldn't be done. They said I didn't know what I was talking about. You know, trust me, I know every A-hole in the industry who wrote, what has he done

Starting point is 00:08:18 next to some comment on, or, you know, as a comment next to some piece of content that I shared. And I carry that chip every day because I know there is a way and I'm seeing it in rogue day in, day out to build a human-based business that can also grow at scale and has incredible service and incredible relationship with their customers. Are we perfect today? Absolutely not. But we're getting better every day and that's the key. And I'm not afraid to fail. And the company culture we built is that we're not afraid to fail. We try things. We go down paths and then sometimes we have to back out and you know what? I don't care. And in order to get there, in order to try more paths in order to bring more insights into our company. We need great people to do that and that's

Starting point is 00:09:01 what we're looking to hire. So a couple positions. I need a chief revenue officer. Someone who is going to sit. This is going to be an experienced person, someone with who is, I don't need another visionary in this company. I need someone who can look at what we have going on and be a true integrator, get their hands into every revenue generating opportunity that we have in this business, manage that process, manage the people, and grow top line revenue across all, across the entire spectrum of revenue streams at rogue risk. It's a big position. It's one of the most important positions in the company in terms of long-term growth and success. And we're looking for that position. We're looking for that position today. So if you think that's you, reach out. I would

Starting point is 00:09:48 love to talk to you. If you haven't done the work before, if you are going to come, you know, if you're a visionary type person, if you don't like to roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty, if you don't want to get into reports, if you don't want to get into nitty-gritty process, this position is not for you. Please do not contact me. If you're a visionary, I don't need another visionary. We have more ideas than we know what to do with. We have more opportunities know what to do with. I need someone who can take those ideas and opportunities that we select and turn them into streams of gold. That's what we're looking for. So we need Chief Revenue Officer. The other big position that we need is a head of insurance sales. So specifically,

Starting point is 00:10:26 someone who can sit over the top of our premier and inbound sales teams specifically and manage those teams. Carriers, underwriters, you know, questioning. lead flow, just what it takes to be a manager. I don't need a good producer. I don't need someone who knows how to produce in that position. I need someone who's good at managing producers. Someone who, again, I don't need a visionary in this position. I need someone who likes to get shit done

Starting point is 00:10:56 who looks at processes and looks at building culture and supporting producers and beating the crap out of underwriters and carriers who like to give a shit. Like, I need that person to sit over the top of our insurance. sales. They're going to report into the chief revenue officer and also be part of the leadership team, but I need that person on our team to manage our insurance sales. So if you think that's you, reach out. We are also hiring a ton of producers and we call them CSA's client success associates. So if you're a CSA, if you're a producer and you're looking for a new opportunity, if you want,

Starting point is 00:11:33 if you're willing to buy into the way we do business and you're looking to grow your career and be part of something special, we would love to talk to you. This is not for everybody. If you are a traditional agent, this is not a position for you because you most likely will come in, not understand what we're doing and not like the way that we do it. However, if you like to sell, if you like to build relationships, if you like to solve problems, if you have an open mind to a slightly different way, I mean, it's not like we're doing everything different, a slightly different way of handling business a more virtual way, a more streamlined way of doing business while still providing the same insights and expertise that classically independent agents are valued for,

Starting point is 00:12:15 then we absolutely positively would love to talk to you, whether you're focused on service or you're focused on sales, please reach out. We have a few other positions that we'll be posting, but for now, those are the big ones. And guys, I just wanted to get those opportunities in front of you because we're always looking for amazing people. We tend to recruit amazing people and find out where they fit best in the organization versus just finding someone that checks a bunch of boxes, but maybe doesn't fit culturally or doesn't fit into what we're trying to do. Our culture is very, very important to us here at Rogue, and we don't like to mess with it. And if you mess with our culture, you don't last very long.

Starting point is 00:12:51 I don't mean to be so draconian, but it's just the way that it is. I've realized very quickly here over the last two and a half years that culture is really, it's one of the key pillars to your business. And if you're not focused on culture, then it doesn't matter. So, or none of the other stuff matters because it ends up creating more problems and more issues and lack of efficiency in your business. So I called this episode, efficiency isn't the answer because I want to tell you a quick story with the remaining time that we have around an experience I recently had, purchasing a vehicle with Carvana. So I, for the last three years, have driven a Ford F-150, a 2016. It's a XLT, so fairly straightforward.

Starting point is 00:13:32 kind of slightly better than base model, but nothing fancy. Ford F-150, silver, nice truck, great in snow. I've always enjoyed it. Had a lot of fun with it. And, you know, with everything that happened in my personal life and, you know, having signed my divorce papers, my new lease papers, and my acquisition papers for Road to be sold to SIA, all on the same day.

Starting point is 00:13:59 I never really got myself anything. I didn't really, like, I didn't throw, not to you throw a party or whatever, but I didn't really celebrate at all. And, you know, I kind of been looking for like, you know, now that I'm kind of through a lot of that and life is kind of getting into a new flow and feeling better and feeling healthy and feeling, you know, a lot more energy and good and all that kind of stuff. I was looking for something. And I didn't really know what I was looking for, but I lately have been looking for something. And about a month and a half ago, I got a call. call from the dealership that sold me my F-150. And the woman called and said, hey, you know, my name's,

Starting point is 00:14:36 I can't remember. We'll call it Sarah maybe. My name's Sarah. And did you, you bought an F-1, a 2016 F-150 from us three years ago? And I said, I did, yeah. And she said, do you still have it? And I said, how many miles do you think it has? And I think it had, like, at the time, like, $70,000 or whatever. And she's like, well, would you be interested in coming in and letting us give you a trade-in value for it because we can't find enough used trucks and you know we're looking for use trucks and I don't know I had an hour in the afternoon free so I said sure I said I'll come over right now because I got a little time and whatever between now and my next call so you know I just needed a break so I drove over there and um they threw what I believed for a fairly beat up 20 F150

Starting point is 00:15:18 2016 F150 um a fairly ridiculous number at me they threw they threw a number at me uh $22,000 for that truck and I was like, it like opened my eyes to, holy crap, like, this truck has some value. It's falling apart. If they're going to give me that kind of money for it, like, I need to make a move now. So I started working with the salespeople at the dealership. And what I really very quickly was that they weren't particularly interested in what I wanted and really were trying to sell me something, right? Like they had a specific set of inventory, call it 30 to 50 vehicles.

Starting point is 00:15:54 And that's what they wanted to get me in, right? They tried to get me in. First they wanted to just get me in another Ford F-150, which I wasn't against. There was this big, like, I don't know what Dodge Rams' Denali version is or whatever, but like the Denali version, the GMC Denali version of a RAM, which I thought was a really cool truck. I didn't love the color white, but that's what it was, and I like that. And then, you know, I've always wanted a Jeep, a Wrangler. And my buddy Matt Namoly has a Rubicon, and my boss, Matt Masse Yellow, has a Rubicon,

Starting point is 00:16:31 and I've hung out with them and seen their trucks and some of the things they've done with their jeeps. And I've always kind of wanted that. And then, you know, hanging out with those guys a lot recently, I've just been like, ah, it's really got the bugging me. And at this Ford dealership, they had the new Ford Bronco. And they were trying to get me in this thing and had this weak-ass I-4 engine in it. and I hated that. And, you know, I'm sitting there and the guy's talking to me through it.

Starting point is 00:16:55 And, like, there were parts of it that I liked, right? There were parts of this thing that were cool. And then, but I didn't like the engine. And I'm going, you know, I don't love the I-4 because there's just, you know, it's kind of like, you hit the gas pedal and you feel like you're, you know, it's being propelled by like a, by like, a wet fart, right? There's just nothing to it. You're just like, you know, I want a little punch, you know.

Starting point is 00:17:17 If you're going to get something like that, you want a little punch to it. You don't want to, like, feel like you're just kind of, like, drag. So I'm like, you know, what's with this I4 engine? And obviously I knew a little bit about it. So I was, but I always played dumb with these guys because they, you know, whatever. I feel like you get more done when you act like a dummy than when you do like you act like you know what you're doing. So I'm kind of like country dumb in this guy, which I learned from all my friends down in Alabama and Mississippi and Louisiana who always try to play country dumb on me because I'm from the north, even though I know none of them are dumb.

Starting point is 00:17:47 So, you know, I'm doing that with this guy and he's going, no, the I4 is a great engine, it's a great engine. You know, you're going to love this engine and, you know, he's telling me all this stuff. And I'm just, I'm looking at this guy going, he's not listening to me. He wants, he just wants me to get into this. He just wants to get me into this thing. He's got limited inventory. Instead of trying to work with me to figure out exactly what I want, he just wants to sell me what he has access to. And, and he's not really listening to the way that I want to do business. And I kind of started to get like, you know, guys, I really appreciate the trade in and I'm interested in the trade in but like I don't really love anything that

Starting point is 00:18:24 you have here right now and no no this what about this Bronco and it's going to go fast and you know and I'm like ah and it was like this fire engine red which if it were like a big truck the fire engine red would have looked cool to me but on the Bronco I thought it looked like a like something like a teenager would get it just didn't look I don't know it's not what I wanted so he's trying to force me into this thing and I go well hey man can you just give me like five minutes because I just want to text a couple friends and see what they think, right? And really, I'm just stalling, but, you know, I did want him to just get the hell away from me for a minute. So he says, oh, yeah, yeah, no problem. Sure is shit, no more than, and I set a timer, no more than 90 seconds. It was like

Starting point is 00:19:04 97 seconds or whatever. This guy comes back and now he's futzing around some paperwork on his desk. He's going, yeah, you need some more time. And I'm like, I fucking told you five minutes. And here we are, a minute and a half later and like you can't get away. Now I know that you're desperate right now i can smell it i can smell that desperation coming through complete turn off and i basically just said dude i need i need time i need to think about it overnight you know i gave him like the classic brush off he goes well i know what that means and i said yeah i said i don't want to tell you i'm not buying the car right now like you can whatever i'm going to stand up and i'm to leave we can either kind of have a good you know whatever and maybe i reach back out to you or

Starting point is 00:19:40 you can kind of give me crap you know i don't you know you have to make that decision but like i'm leaving and he's like well no it's not like that it's all good just text me tomorrow what you think and this car's going to go quick and um long story short that bronco was on the lot for at least two more weeks as much as he's telling me like any minute someone could walk in and buy it two you know i got to drive by actually have to drive by the dealership to get to my gym so like i saw it i saw it there for at least two more weeks and i stopped looking but while i um so all that happens get home and um you know i had seen you know i see carvana license plates around town and I just went online and started checking it out and I'm looking at these cars and they

Starting point is 00:20:20 have 37,000 cars and they're all over the country and you have this massive inventory. I mean you can basically sort and fix and figure out exactly what you want. And sure enough, I find a black with red highlight trim or Jeep Rubicon, 2019, 14,000 miles. It's got all the tricked out features which I was kind of looking for. you know, I'm a single guy now, so I kind of, you know, wanted something cool. I wanted something fun. I wanted something that I could get in and have some fun with and put the top down and bomb around, which I've loved doing, like, in the, all fall.

Starting point is 00:20:56 I've had the top down, and any time it's a nice day out and having tons of fun, my kids love it, and, you know, that's what I wanted. So I looked at it, and the price was, you know, I did a bunch of research. The price was right on point. It looked great. Passed all the inspection stuff. and they gave me like, I think like 20,500 for the trade. And so it was like $1,500 difference,

Starting point is 00:21:17 which versus the convenience of getting exactly what I wanted on my own terms to the in-person experience of kind of being forced into something that I didn't really like, but it's what they had. The experience was way better, right? So I kind of, so I start looking into the process and I'm like, geez, they freaking dropped the car off right at my house. I don't have to deal with the dealership. I don't have to deal with some freaking sales guy who's up my butt about this and that and this feature

Starting point is 00:21:45 and you want this warranty and all this nonsense that just, you know, it's just car buying is a terrible experience. And the Carvana experience was much better. Now, it's not all roses, right? Nothing is, nothing's perfect. This isn't like a, this is an analogy or metaphor or whatever to me like saying that independent insurance agents and blah. That's not exactly what I'm saying. There's a little bit of that in there, and I'll get to that in a second.

Starting point is 00:22:13 What's up, guys? Sorry to take you away from the episode, but as you know, we do not run ads on this show. In exchange for that, I need your help. If you're loving this episode, if you enjoy this podcast, whether you're watching on YouTube or you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, I would love for you to subscribe, share, comment if you're on YouTube, leave a rating review if you're on Spotify or Apple iTunes, et cetera. This helps the show grow. It helps me bring more guests in. We have a tremendous lineup of people coming in, men and women who've done incredible things,

Starting point is 00:22:50 sharing their stories around peak performance, leadership, growth, sales. The things that are going to help you grow as a person and grow your business, but they all check out comments, ratings, reviews, they check out all this information before they come on. So as I reach out to more and more people and want to bring them in and share their stories with you. I need your help. Share the show. Subscribe if you're not subscribed. And I love for you to leave a comment about the show because I read all the comments.

Starting point is 00:23:17 Or if you're on Apple or Spotify, leave a rating review of this show. I love you for listening to this show. And I hope you enjoy it listening as much as I do creating the show for you. All right. I'm out of here. Peace. Let's get back to the episode. You know, so we get into the process and some of the parts are super easy.

Starting point is 00:23:36 It's like, bam, financing right in line with what I get at a local bank, finance through, you know, Carvana's thing, that's easy. Take pictures of the truck, validate the trade in, that's nice. Bim, bam, upload a bunch of documents. That's all great. You know, but then there were two hiccups. One was in verifying, I had to verify whether or not I was transferring my plates or replacing. and I had to figure out, and the lien.

Starting point is 00:24:10 So I had the lien, or I had paid off the loan on the truck. So my former truck, my F-150, I had completely paid that off. So I didn't have any payments on the truck. But I had the title, but I didn't have the lien release. Most likely my ex-wife has it, which is fine. I just didn't want to bother her. So I just went to the bank. It takes two seconds.

Starting point is 00:24:33 You drive over the bank. Hey, can I get my lien release? no problem with you hand me a document I come back I scan it I send it in we don't accept this and I'm like well you know and again I'm talking everything is done I haven't talked to a human on the phone everything is via the text message they have a cool text message feature actually which I thought was really really cool and then there was like web chat and email and I'm going back and forth those people and I'm starting to get frustrated because there's no other version of the lien release at my bank it's like they're not I'm like there's nothing else for me to show you like this is

Starting point is 00:25:03 what it is. I don't know. I can go back 20 times. This is the way that it comes. And, you know, I'm going back and forth. And finally, I'm like, can someone call me? Like, how do I get a hold of somebody? So, so I'm starting to get frustrated. Finally, I get a human on the phone. That human kind gives me the party line at first. And I'm just like, and I can't remember what her name was. She wasn't, she was being pleasant and she was doing, you know, she was doing her job. It just, you know, I'm like, ah. And I just, finally I said, I'm getting very frustrated. I don't don't understand how to move forward here. There is no, like this is the way, this bank,

Starting point is 00:25:38 now granted, it's a local, the bank that I used to have was this local like credit union or whatever. Unfortunately with interest rates being what they are, like the credit unions, like there's no real advantage to being there anymore. But, you know, so I was like, this is what it is. Like I don't know what to tell you. Like you're saying this doesn't,

Starting point is 00:26:00 it says right here, I've paid the truck off, all this kind of stuff, going back and forth there, And finally she says, you know what, Mr. Hanley, you know, let me look at this. You know, give me a day, I'll call you back. So whatever. A little bit frustrated, maybe a little more than frustrated because like every day that this went on, it's pushing my delivery date back. So for the truck, because the truck had to come from like someplace in the Midwest or like

Starting point is 00:26:26 southwest or something. It wasn't like it was right here in Albany. And so she calls me back the next day. back and forth with like she called me and I missed it, blah, blah. So finally I get her on the phone and she goes, look, I understand the problem, I've checked it out, I've talked to our manager, you're all set, your delivery date is here, thank you very much. So, and then I went from being like, this is really frustrating.

Starting point is 00:26:52 I'm feeling like maybe I made a mistake working with these guys because I'm feeling I'm not getting stuff done, I'm not getting the answers I need, the self-service functionality had kind of run its course. escalating it up to a human was a little bit of a pain in the butt. I was starting to get very frustrated, and then when I finally got a human involved, and I could tell that, you know, not that she cared about me personally,

Starting point is 00:27:16 but she definitely cared about the outcome. I could tell by the tone of her voice and the way she approached me that she did care about the outcome of this situation. Like she didn't want me to be frustrated. I could tell by the way she was trying to figure things out and the way she spoke to me. And when she finally gave me the answer, I mean, again, I liked that the answer was actually what it was.

Starting point is 00:27:35 You know, what it was. I'm glad she didn't say no. Maybe my feelings are different if she'd just come back and said, I don't know what to tell you we won't accept it. You know, she got it approved and everything was good. I was like, this is great. And, you know, I had one, then, you know, one little hiccup, but they told me it was going to be this date,

Starting point is 00:27:51 and then the delivery date got pushed back, and it got pushed a week, which was frustrating because I kind of set my day up in order to receive the car. But also we have a labor shortage because, well, for all the reasons that I won't get into, that I believe we have a labor shortage, and they just don't have enough drivers, blah, blah. So, okay, so the date gets pushed back.

Starting point is 00:28:12 We get to the delivery date for the vehicle. Okay, so guy texts me, hey, it's looking like 3 p.m. Great. Hey, I'm 15 minutes out at 2.45. He texts me, great. Hey, I'm here. Awesome. I walk downstairs.

Starting point is 00:28:28 It's on a Carvana truck. I don't know if you've ever bought cars from Carvana, but literally they pull up in a flatbed. He takes the Jeep off, hands me the key, says, hey, take it for a spin. I bomb around. He takes my truck, pulls it up onto the bed of the truck. I come back around. He says, how was it?

Starting point is 00:28:44 I said, great, love it. He was awesome. I signed two pieces of paper in person. He takes my truck away. I now have this awesome, you know, new to me, but still at 14,000 miles, like basically brand new. You know, six-speed manual transmission, black Jeep Rubicon. tricked out, like feel like a pimp when I drive it, which is, you know, I drove trucks for so long.

Starting point is 00:29:07 It's kind of different being in a Jeep and everything, but I really enjoying it. And it was like, oh my God, why would I ever go to a fucking dealership again? Like, why would I ever do that? I got exactly what I wanted. Was there a little bit of time? Yeah. But I think could Carvana set expectations a little better? I think they definitely could set expectations a little better.

Starting point is 00:29:29 I think they can make the process of getting from the. self-service text message kind of automated processes and kind of text-based processes to a human faster when when a situation needs to be escalated but I'll never go to a car dealership again maybe if I buying some like a super sports car or something someday which I kind of have this bug in me that I kind of someday not two day would love like certain sports car but but that's it that's down the road that's like play down the road 10 10 15 years from now but like well like if I need to get my next vehicle after this Jeep or whatever or if I want another vehicle like I'm going to buy it through service like Carvana I got exactly what I wanted exactly what I wanted

Starting point is 00:30:13 now let's just spin this real quick over to the independent insurance industry right because I'm going a little bit longer here with this story this to me was complete validation in the human optimized model for the agency of the future right it if you're traditional, local, independent agency still dictates the way business will be done, I don't believe that you have a future in the industry. Now, you can maintain for sure, but you're not growing, right? Because to me, I don't care about lifestyle agents. I don't care.

Starting point is 00:30:49 I think lifestyle agents are amazing, but I don't even consider them when I think about the future of the industry. A lifestyle agent has earned the right to do whatever the F they want to maintain their business so that they can live the lifestyle that they've built. And they have every right to do that. And I applaud them and I think it's wonderful. And if I had built a traditional agency over the last 20 or 30 years and was in a place today where I was in my late 50s, early 60s and I was looking kind of at retiring or selling or whatever, what I want to implement massive growth solutions and take on new technology, no, I would not want to do that. I would do exactly what, you know,

Starting point is 00:31:29 60-ish percent of the industry is doing, which is what we've always done with minimal changes and hold on and wait for someone to come in and offer to buy me that I can actually feel like I can tolerate. That's exactly what I would do. But for the growth-focused agencies, for the growth-focused organizations that are looking at our industry, that are looking at the future and thinking not just about what makes you successful today, but about where the puck is going, this concept of a human optimized business, a business that does not rely on local, not that it can't be. Carvana has local shops that are local dealerships that you can go and walk around and touch and feel and see the cars. They have that, but they also have this very robust

Starting point is 00:32:14 online process that provides various layers of interaction escalating to a human as the customer so needs and desires. Do I think Carvana's experience is perfect? No, I do not. Do I think is pretty freaking good, yes I do. And I believe we can replicate models like this in the independent insurance industry where we're allowing the customer to escalate to the human as they desire, not going right to the human because that's the most expensive way to go. It's also not what every customer wanted. I had that experience at the dealership with this desperate, he stunk of used car salesman desperation and all he wanted to do is shove me into this vehicle that I had basically told him I didn't want.

Starting point is 00:32:59 And like it became like a psychology experiment for me. I mean, being that I do this for a living and I've been in sales my entire life, like I can see it, I can feel it, I could taste it, I could smell it, it was dirty and disgusting and I hated it. And I hated that he wasn't listening to me when I said I didn't want that thing or that I didn't want to communicate with him in that way or when I explained to him how I wanted to communicate, how he made it about what was best for him,

Starting point is 00:33:26 about his timetable. It's not about him. It wasn't about him, and it's certainly not about you, and it's not about me. It's about the customer. What do they want? And I feel like if we push them right to what we want,

Starting point is 00:33:39 then we're not doing them. We are not setting our business up for exponential growth. What we're doing is setting our business up to grow in a very, in a sub-segment that is going to pigeonhole us that's going to handcuff us from true growth. So what does that look? like from an independent insurance industry. No problem with local locations. I think you should have local locations at rogue. Our long-term plan is to have rogue locations owned in partnership with our

Starting point is 00:34:06 producer force throughout the entire country. Like I want rogues all over the country owned in conjunction with our producer force, our producers that validate and earn the right to launch their own locations out into the space. And that's a very important part of the model. But another incredibly important part the human-optimized part of the model is this step-up process from self-service to automation to outsourced, you know, virtual assistants, VAs and outsourced workforce to finally an inside force of licensed professionals who care, who give a shit, who will take the time to solve problems, who will do the right thing by the customer. But that process must escalate because you're going from least expensive to most expensive

Starting point is 00:34:52 and let the customers decide where they need to go in that process. And if you find that customers are jumping certain parts or pushing right to your most expensive options, maybe there's a branding issue, maybe there's a marketing issue, maybe there's a technology issue, maybe there's a product issue. There are ways to solve those things. And I think all of it comes back to properly setting expectations through internal comms, through marketing and prospecting comms, through initial sales calls, through initial messaging after a lead form is filled, properly setting expectations.

Starting point is 00:35:26 By explaining the process, by allowing customers to choose their own adventure throughout your organization, you're able to create the most efficient and effective business. Pure efficiency isn't always the answer. I was just at ITC and Vegas, and while I thought it was probably one of the best insurance conferences I have ever been to, some of the biggest power players in the industry were there. I had never seen so many major influencers, not just from like a social media standpoint, but people doing real shit in the industry. I'd never seen so many in one place bumping into each other, having amazing conversations.

Starting point is 00:36:00 I also saw a lot of people that still believe that humans are not the answer. Humans are still an incredibly vital part of our business, still the most important part of our business. However, if we push all our customers directly to our humans always the way we want it to be done, we are limiting our ability to be efficient. We're limiting the margins we're able to create inside our business and we're ultimately limiting our ability to grow. And just as a kind of, I guess, fourth piece to that, I feel like it's not actually always

Starting point is 00:36:33 what our customers actually want. I wanted to shop the 37,000 plus vehicles that Carvana had on my own without some sweaty, four-eyed, stinky, desperate, freaking used car salesman over my shoulder trying to push me into something that I didn't want, right? I wanted to build a shop for what I wanted. And that's the experience that I wanted. And I think a lot of our customers in the insurance industry are slowly, I think that's where the puck is going.

Starting point is 00:37:03 Let me put that a better way. I think that is where the puck is going. Is this human optimized idea, this idea that while efficiency is incredibly important, it is not the answer. And that by marrying those two ideas, the effectiveness of a human with the efficiency of technology and automation and self-service and marrying those two concepts and building a step-up process that allows our customers to choose their own adventure. That is the agency of the future, my friends.

Starting point is 00:37:27 That is where we need to be going if we truly care about growth. My lifestyle agency friends, God bless you, I love you, I'll slap you up forever and I think you're amazing. But this is not the advice for you. You do you, you do what you've always done. Don't spend money on these things. Don't. I wouldn't.

Starting point is 00:37:43 Put more business with the carriers that are going to pay you more money. That might be late stage of your business moving to a model like, like SIA, moving to an aggregator of some sort who's going to allow you to maximize your revenue and finding a way to do that. Or maybe it is just selling, or maybe it is looking at our carrier partnerships, looking at your carrier partnerships and consolidating your book of business. Those are the things I'd be looking at if I were a lifestyle agent. I'd be looking at maximizing the revenue I already have internally. But that's not the future of the industry. You are on the way out. God bless you. Thank you. I think that you've

Starting point is 00:38:21 You've paid your dues and it's amazing and I'm very thankful for the work that our lifestyle agents in this industry have done. But I'm 40 years old. I got 20 more years in this industry at a minimum, 41 years old. So I got, I still got 40 more years in the industry. But, you know, so for me, I want to be, I want to focus on the growth agencies, the agencies that are going to push their business to where the puck is going. And my friends, this is where I think the puck is going.

Starting point is 00:38:50 I hope that this was valuable to you. I'm going to save the Blockbuster story because we've kind of run long and I just at this point I think it's unnecessary. So we'll save that for another episode. But I hope this was valuable to you. This is where I think the business is going. This is where I think our industry is going. I'm so bullish on the independent insurance industry.

Starting point is 00:39:12 I just feel like this move to a human optimized model is the best way. And it's how we're building rogue. I mean, look, I'm putting my money, I'm putting my legacy, I'm putting my reputation where my mouth is. This is what we're building every day. This isn't just theory, right? This is what I do. And I share it with you on this podcast because I love you guys. And I know that so many of you listening to this actually do take in some of this.

Starting point is 00:39:38 And you do take some pieces from the things that a share or say or the ideas. And it does help your business. And so many of you give it back. And I'm so incredibly grateful from that. I learned from so many of you too as you find things and learn things and experience things and by us sharing and communicating and working as a community, we all get better. We all have a lot more fun and we can do awesome things. So I hope you enjoyed this.

Starting point is 00:40:06 If you are interested in joining Rogue, if one of those positions that I mentioned is something that kind of lights you up a little bit that you think you might be a good fit for or you know someone who would be a good fit for one of those positions, love you to reach out, you can hit me up, DM me on any of the socials. You can always email me at Ryan atrogris.com. Don't tell anybody that email address, but it's Ryan atrogris.com is my email. You can always hit me up, share a name, or put your own name in. Love to talk to you if you're interested. Guys, we're growing fast and we're doing interesting things. And I need more people who can help make that happen. We're starting to reach the point where, you know, I'm getting

Starting point is 00:40:46 a little spread too thin and I need to focus on the things that I can add the most value. And my other, all the people in this business need to focus on the things that, that where they add the most value, where they're responsible areas. We can't have people wearing 20 hats. It's just not how you grow a business. We're past that stage. And that's why we're looking for more great team members to come in and do awesome stuff. So if you think that's you, reach out.

Starting point is 00:41:14 As always, I love you for listening to this show. I appreciate you for listening to this show. You can always get at me. And if you liked it, share it with a friend. That's the best way to support this show, to support what we do here, to support these ideas, is just share the show with a friend. Tell somebody, share it on social, text.

Starting point is 00:41:33 If you got a Facebook group, share it in there or whatever, you know, if you disagree and you hate these ideas, share it even more and tell me all the reasons why I'm a jerk and don't know what I talk about. just as interesting to me as everyone who agrees. So I hope you guys absolutely crushed today. I'm out of here. Peace.

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Starting point is 00:42:45 Do it today. This is the story of the one. As an H-FAC technician, he and his digital multimeter are in high demand. So when a noisy office HVAC turns out to be a failing blower motor, He doesn't break a sweat. With Granger's easy-to-use website and product information, he selects the product he needs to keep everything humming right along.

Starting point is 00:43:10 Call 1-800 Granger, click ranger.com or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. If you like the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening. Happy holidays. Want to give your host a gift? consider subscribing, rating, and reviewing the show this holiday season.

Starting point is 00:43:43 It really helps the show grow. From all of us at Believe, have a Merry Christmas, everyone, and a happy holiday.

Finding Peak w/ Ryan Hanley - Efficiency Isn't the Answer in the Agency of the Future

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