Finding Peak w/ Ryan Hanley - Leadership and Self-Discovery with Ron Stotts

Episode Date: April 22, 2024

Spartan philosophy, built in the black-ops lab of business: https://www.findingpeak.comFinding Peak podcast: https://linktr.ee/ryan_hanleyUnlock the secrets to a more connected, empathetic, and successful existence with visionary Ron Stotts as he guides us through the paradigm shift from traditional leadership to conscious collaboration. ✅ Join over 10,000 newsletter subscribers: https://go.ryanhanley.com/ ✅ For daily insights and ideas on peak performance: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanhanley ✅ Subscribe to the YouTube show: https://youtube.com/ryanmhanleyConnect with Ron StottsLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ron-stotts-4b410b30/Website: https://ronstotts.com/Our enlightening dialogue traverses deep into the realms of self-awareness, revealing how it's the cornerstone for transformational growth both in personal life and within organizational structures. Ron's expertise blends psychology with executive coaching to illuminate the path toward a society where leaders are not just profit-driven, but purpose-driven, striving for a collective well-being.Embark on a profound emotional journey with us, as we confront the discomfort that often leads to "stopping breathing," a metaphor for emotional disengagement. By tapping into the healing potential of our emotional intelligence, we discuss how facing our past traumas can lead to a compassionate approach in leadership. This episode is an exploration into the hero's journey within each of us—a quest for wholeness that fosters empathy and support in the workplace, and enables a cooperative culture that transcends traditional corporate dynamics.The conversation takes a turn towards the personal as we share self-improvement experiences and breaking free from the cycles of false realities. From the liberating process of self-discovery to the authentic connections that arise when we stop performing for external validation, our discussion is a testament to the power of living truthfully. We're not just professionals seeking success; we are individuals on a transformative quest to unravel and rebuild our inner selves, and in doing so, we reshape the very essence of leadership and community.--Recommended Tools for GrowthOpusClip: #1 AI video clipping and editing tool: https://link.ryanhanley.com/opusRiverside: HD Podcast & Video Software | Free Recording & Editing: https://link.ryanhanley.com/riversideWhisperFlow: Never waste time typing on your keyboard again: https://link.ryanhanley.com/whisperflowCaptionsApp: One app for all your social media video creation: https://link.ryanhanley.com/captionsappGoHighLevel: It's time to take your business workflow to the Next Level: https://link.ryanhanley.com/gohighlevelPerspective.co: The #1 funnel builder for lead generation: https://link.ryanhanley.com/perspective--Episodes You Might Enjoy:From $2 Million Loss to World-Class Entrepreneur: https://lnk.to/delkFrom One Man Shop to $200M in Revenue: https://lnk.to/tommymelloIs Psilocybin the Gateway to Self-Mastery? https://lnk.to/80upZ9This show is part of the Unplugged Studios Network — the infrastructure layer for serious creators. 👉 Learn more at https://unpluggedstudios.fm.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Consider subscribing, rating, and reviewing the show this holiday season. It really helps the show grow. From all of us at Believe, have a Merry Christmas, everyone, and a happy holiday. Yeah, make a look, make a look, geez. Hey, stand-up guy born 10 toes. Big body pull up in a range road. Well, everyone, and welcome back to the show. Today we have a tremendous episode for you, a conversation with Ron Stats, an executive coach,

a three-time New York time. best-selling author. He is a PhD in psychology. He is a doctorate in chiropractic medicine. And what I love about this conversation is how Ron ties, I'm going to say the spiritual. I don't necessarily, and we actually talk about this in the religious sense, but he brings in an emotional, a spiritual, and in the words that Ron uses, a consciousness to leadership that I think is going to open your mind to the way we talk, we act, we think how we show up in our business. This episode is all about leadership, both of an organization and taking leadership of our own lives. You're going to love it. Let's get on to this tremendous guest, Ron Stotz.

Ron, I appreciate you being on the show. I'm excited because one of the topics that we talk about the most and I focus on the most with this show and really you don't know this because we're just getting to know each other. But about six months ago, I changed the title of this podcast from my name, the Ryan Hanley show, which is super creative and egotistical to defining peak, which is the podcast title today. It was a big change. It was a brand change. And really, it was a directional change for what we're going to talk about today, which is these ideas of leadership, growth and kind of, I call peak performance, but becoming the best versions of ourselves. Because as you said, and this is where I want to start, right, it's time for a quantum leap forward

in leadership. So what does that mean to you? And why in particular now do we need that quantum leap forward? Like what's going on in the marketplace today that this among other, you know, among maybe a few other times in history is an incredibly important time to evolve our leadership. Yeah. You know, I think it started back in the 80s. You know, I was working with AT&T during their divestiture. I was running a corporation called Inner Game and they had hired us to really manage their shift from the mindset of being a monopoly to one of being a for-profit five organizations. And I really saw how stuck they were in that old way of thinking. And even though they saw and fully agreed with what I was suggesting needed to be. be done in terms of really supporting everybody and cooperating and bringing in on sharing you know they're everybody kind of in the organization kept their head down nose to the grindstone and was looking

more at you know retirement than anything else and so it was just that monopoly mindset they limited everybody but you know today we're in a place where we have to be much more conscious we can't be this old ego-centered, top-down, arrogant, you know, leader that's really just telling everybody what to do. I mean, first of all, people just aren't accepting that any longer. It's just not working. You know, you get Gen Z. They're going to walk out on that sort of mentality immediately.

But you're also saying there's 50 years of leadership research that clearly shows that a more conscious cooperative collaborative organization is more profitable literally by at least 40%. I mean, I see it all the time in my clients that they're seeing increases in profit and productivity by well over 40%. All because just as if we get our own life in alignment with our highest intention, our greatest aspiration, and we really develop our life and become who we need to be to to reach that highest aspiration. So an organization that has a meaningful purpose, even if it's making widgets,

but they're also contributing to the world in some way. All their people come together. So just as an individual comes together and their life becomes more successful or fulfilling and joyful, so in an organization, as they come together with a single-pointed focus, collaborating and cooperating,

and bringing out the best in everyone. You give people meaning. You give people a sense of purpose and validation in their life. And the truth is they go home happier. They go home feeling more fulfilled. They treat their family better. They treat their spouses better. They contribute to the world in a different way.

And we create, which is kind of my hidden agenda, creating a more conscious and caring world, which is, you know, if we don't do it now, we're in trouble. So for one, just a point of reference for the audience, when you say conscious, like maybe just define that term a little bit and how it relates particularly to leadership so that everyone can kind of be on the same terms. Good.

You know, conscious, really the definition of it is how aware are you of what you're thinking? How aware are you of what you're feeling? Even on a subconscious level. You know, I realize people think, oh, subconscious, well, that's not. conscious and actually you know if you quiet your mind if you're focused and present enough you really are aware of subconscious thoughts that go through you know supportive or unsupportive that type of thing and so it's really a matter of healing the past from my experience so that you don't have all that subconscious limiting chatter from unhealed issues of your past and really

quieting the mind and then neurologically rewiring the brain for integrated whole brain thinking which really makes the brain a much more potent receiver and capable of you know that you I mean immediately start accessing higher levels of creativity imagination intuition but also higher levels of thinking you as you move up in consciousness you become more aware not just of yourself but of other and otherness. And in that level of awareness, that's where you find the answers that you're looking for. So my clients, as they move through their different levels of evolving,

they begin to recognize, oh, if I don't have the answer here and are feeling resistance and struggle here, that just means that there's something ready to be healed. And so they breathe into that, do whatever is necessary because they have the skills to really heal whatever is in the way. and in healing whatever they're struggling against, they access the very part they need to allow them to go up into an even more aware,

more conscious state, where they can find the answers that they're looking for. And that takes them into what I call big mind, the capability of really struggling and trying to find answers, but to just really quiet the mind and put out what you're looking for and receiving that. I was talking to a friend of mine. We meet every Monday morning.

We're peers and both entrepreneurs, et cetera. And it is like a true kind of shoot to shit session. Like there's no agenda. We kind of check in on each other. And so much as like, you know, how is your week? You know, how you doing? You're hitting your goals and that kind of stuff. But then for the next, you know, sometimes it's we, we, we, our technical stop is.

a half hour, but sometimes we go an hour. It's really just, I mean, use this term safe space, even though I don't like the woke connotation of that term, but it is a safe space to just, we just talk, right, about different things that are on our mind related to business. And it is, it's difficult. Like, what you just discussed is a very heady topic. And I feel like in today's world,

people are so bombarded with life. There's so much. and I'm 43. So I remember a world without the internet. I'm the last generation that we remember a world without the internet. And before the internet, life was just slower. There was more space built into life. It just was, right?

You had to walk places and not know if the person was going to be there on time. Right? Like, you'd be like, hey, I was trying to explain to my kids. And I promise this is going somewhere. I was explaining to my kids the idea of like, I was like, you used to say to your friend, hey, meet me at the ballpark at 3 p.m. And then you just hoped that they were there at 3. And maybe there there were 2.30.

Maybe they didn't get 104. You didn't know. And you just had to kind of trust that eventually they were going to show up at the ballpark to play or whatever. Like it just and like, because they're like, well, did you text this person? and you tell them you're going to be there. And if you're going to be three minutes late, now you've got to like text them and say,

hey, I'm three minutes late. It's like, and all of that takes space and time. Okay, okay. So this is kind of what we were discussing. And I said to my friend, I said, you know, today, it feels like today, everyone needs to become a philosopher. Right, right? Like, and like, it comes back to like the idea of like stoicism,

having such as this resurgence and huge impact on our culture. And now, you know, I'm reading, you know, half the books, I'm a big reader, but half the books I read now are philosophy books. And not for like the, I don't know, I guess when I was growing up, like if you read philosophy, you, it was like, you know, you were not going to do anything with your life. And now I feel like if I didn't have these concepts as an entrepreneur, as a leader, et cetera, I couldn't operate in the world without these ideas, right? Without a quote that I've been using all the time is from Bruce Lee in some of his writings,

the value of the cup is its emptiness, right? I've been saying that a lot to some of the people that I mentor and some of my, I have some executive coaching clients that I work with and I'm like, you know, they'll be talking, talking, kind of like I'm doing right now. And I'll say like, hey,

let's, let's empty the cup on this topic. Like, you're telling me you don't have the answer. So the reason you don't have the answer might be because, you know, it's already full in your head. Maybe we need to empty it. So like,

coming back to my question with that huge long contextual diet tribe is, do you think that, that with the pace of the world or other factors, which I'd be interested in, that philosophy and philosophical concepts, it's why these things are making such a resurgence into our life. Do we actually need these topics now more than ever to deal with our teams, with ourselves, with our spouses, with our children, with our friends, et cetera? Yeah, I do. I mean, there's certainly, I come from a strong spiritual background.

I've studied all the various religions and meditation and, you know, just, quite fully. And those were kind of like that was another part of my life that never came into my work in a sense. And now it's an integral part of my work. You know, just as I remember creativity was really, you know, if you had creativity, a creativity group in your organization, well, they had a little closet in the basement. Yeah. And now the CEO is, you know, all about creativity.

That has to be their highest ability almost. So all of a sudden, you know, if you're not present, if your mind's not quiet, if you're not accessing higher levels of consciousness, you're not functioning as an optimum leader. And so are you tired of endless follow-ups and missed opportunities in your sales process? Chasing leads is a losing game. That's why I created the one-call closed system, a battle-tested sales. system that uses behavioral psychology to close deals in just one call. No more, let me think about it.

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Close twice as many deals this time next week. Visit master of theclose.com to learn how. It really is a complete shift, you know, and I think it's wonderful because I think that that shift in awareness, self-awareness, other awareness, caring, becoming more cooperative, collaborative, supporting others is really what we need to really begin to not only take care of each other, take care of the human, but also take care of the rest of the world, become aware of the oneness of it all rather than the duality, separateness, and whatever's good for me is all that matters. So you've said quiet your mind multiple times, and I am positive that knowing the audience as well

as I do that there are many people out there going, oh my gosh, I would love for my mind to be quiet. So how do we do that? If you're a leader, et cetera, how do you quiet your mind? When you're working with a client or an executive or whatever, how do you coach them to actually build some quiet into their mind? Well, first I try and logically get them to understand what all the noise is about. and as they begin to recognize that, and this is just science,

that most people say and have the same thoughts every day. They might say them differently, but it's really just this noise that goes through their head. A lot of people even embrace that and raise that level of chatter because they feel safer being up in their head rather than really being in the wholeness of what their brains really made up, which also includes the heart and the gut. are starting to recognize, oh, the gut has neurological circuits. The heart has neurological circuits.

So the brain isn't really just in the cavity up top. It's all through us. And so, you know, you have to be able to, you know, a lot of people that I work with are very brilliant. They really are. They have that high IQ, but they don't have the emotional intelligence. And that's because they hide in their head. And so the only way to get them out of their head is to help them recognize that what the challenges they're dealing with are all really the result of them stopping breathing. In other words, they ran into something that they didn't know how to emotionally handle. They ran into something that they didn't feel comfortable with. And so they went up in their head and effortled and tried and saw what they could do. but they quit breathing when they do it when they do that and so the way to heal all of the things

that they were unable to heal as a child is you know even earlier in their adult life is really to learn to breathe and as you learn to breathe and look deeper you learn to recognize oh there's a lot of emotional baggage in there so you have to learn to acknowledge express and release that emotional baggage you know your analogy of hanging out with your friend and having an open and sharing conversation. Well, those can even go deeper, and maybe you just didn't include this. But, you know, one of my mentors,

Joseph Campbell, talks about you've got to enter that cave that you fear to enter to find the treasure that you seek. And, of course, that treasure that you're seeking is that unconditional love that every child wants. It's you. You need to discover the wholeness of who and what you are. You know, as a child's growing up, they discard a lot of the,

different aspects of who they are to get acceptance from their family, from others. And all of those parts that, you know, we've discarded are really necessary for us to become whole, for us to become authentic, for us to become capable of accessing who and what we truly are. So what I do is help people to go on that inner journey, that hero's journey that Joseph Campbell talked about, that Star Wars was written about and all of that. And in that inner journey, they become more self-aware. They become more aware of others. They become more compassionate, empathetic.

They become more sensitive and supportive of others. And all of a sudden, they create a more trusting, supportive environment where people are willing to contribute and explore answers and share what their insights are around the work environment or social structures that they're involved in. And in that, you really, all of a sudden, you get people who are more committed, they're more involved,

and all of a sudden your organization is more cooperative, more collaborative, more successful. And, you know, so it's all tied together. But it all starts with healing yourself. It all starts with healing all the different aspects of yourself that you left behind. And then that really creates a, platform of foundation, if you will. And the higher you want to build your life, the more, you know,

more you want to do with your life, the stronger that foundation has to be. Just like if you're building a building, you know, if you're building a one-story building, well, that's, you know, maybe a foot deep of concrete that's going to do it. But if you're going to build, you know, towers, then you're going to have, you know, that huge hole that you're filling with concrete and structural support. And so healing the past gives you that. foundation to build your life on I think that's what took me in this direction is so often I'd see people spiritual teachers politicians business people they would have done really well and they went rows to a certain level in their life all of a sudden they felt

like they were kind of running into something limitation something that they couldn't understand so they'd try harder they'd use the old tools they'd used and rather than shifting to a higher state of consciousness and becoming more self-aware and emotionally intelligence or anything like that. And their life falls apart. I mean, I've seen people die. I've seen people lose everything, all because they weren't willing to let go and grow. They were so caught in that old fixed, limited mindset that they weren't able to evolve. And so my clients, which are really very successful, C-sweets, entrepreneurs, founders, what I see in them, is that there really is they heal themselves,

become more self-aware. They're really looking at, how do I, I don't want to go from one comfort zone to another to another. I want to continue to evolve. And so that's really, you know, that can only be done by quieting the mind ever more fully so that you're accessing the very best

of what your brain has to share with you. So, not to jump on. Let me just add this. As you quiet your mind and it becomes more integrated whole brain thinking, that forebrain, which is everybody uses it, but it doesn't really blossom until the brain gets quiet. And as it blossoms, it becomes the conscious CEO of your life. So you see everything differently. You respond to everything differently. You react everything differently.

And as that begins to happen, you begin to trust your higher capabilities. You begin to understand, oh, consciousness is key. And if I understand what my highest aspiration is, in other words, what is it? What's my highest intention? But what do I need to breathe into? What's going to be a little more difficult? And that's your aspiration. And so as your life becomes that has that deeper purpose, that deeper meaning,

and you're moving towards that aspiration, you're becoming more self-aware you know it reflects in your relationships with others your relationship with yourself is always reflected in your relationship with others so the more conscious and caring and self-accepting and self-loving you become the more that is expressed in all of who and what you are and what you do and so it really is key to quiet the mind Because, you know, the kind of the thing that makes a huge difference in my people who stay around for a while is they start accessing what I call big mind. And big mind is where you not only don't, you know, you have a challenge. And rather than sitting down and trying to look up, well, what did I do before?

How could I handle this and trying harder and exhausting yourself? You really just sit there and quiet the mind completely and say, oh, okay, this is what I'm looking for. This is what I want. And trust that it will come in. And it does. You know, I just was talking to a fellow I hadn't worked with for about a year. He's just blown away by what big minds capable of because he said,

I've got six patents and I've got six more coming. And this guy's not an engineer. He's just a business guy who's got ideas that he needs for what he's developing. And so you really are able to, you have to be able to be that mentally agile. You have to be that mentally capable of accessing the best of who and what you are without running all sorts of down dead-end roads and wasting time and effort because this rapidly changing ever increasing complexity of our business world, there's no time for that.

You have to be able to respond and you have to be able to respond from a very present conscious place. And most people don't. They haven't healed stuff. They're going to respond from the more contracted, fear-based, ego-controlled place. Yeah. I want to go back to something you said that I feel like, especially earlier in my life, I could really relate to you before I started doing a lot of work on myself back in

2017, 2018. You said many people feel safer in the noise. and or that may be paraphrasing, but that that that was pretty close to what you said. And, and I could, I could very much relate to that. I have a fairly strong case of ADHD, which I got diagnosed with at 40, even 43. I just thought I was crazy and different for a long time and didn't necessarily understand. But what I would do is essentially that.

Like when you said that, I was like, oh my, my, you know, I had never thought about it that way. but when I really look at 2017 as like a sea change moment in my life. When I started trying to take, we'll say control as much as you can, but being a conscious effort towards being a better version of myself versus just like existing in 2017. And we don't have to go into why that is. It's unimportant. But before then, I feel like that's what I would do, right?

Like in moments where I felt lost or I felt unanchored or depressed or whatever, it was like more. Give me more. Put more in my head. More thoughts, more activity. And it was like somehow that even though I don't know that anything and most likely I don't think you could say anything more productive came out. No relationships were not getting better. I wasn't getting happier.

Yeah, it was like, it was like an excuse or a distraction from actually getting better was just more, more and more. So, okay. So I can completely relate to that. My question to you is for those who are listening who are still there, I feel like today I have a much better handle on it. Not that I'm perfect and improving, but I do feel like today I have a much better handle on it. Six years of really good counseling and lots of personal work have done that. but for that person who isn't there yet who may hear that and go man i i think i might do that how do you one how do you start to recognize that you're that that you are that person that

you're instead of quieting you rush into more noise as a way to escape right which we know which i think we both agree and obviously this is your position is not the way to go how do we start to recognize that and maybe what are like some one oh one level way of starting to pull back into the quiet. You know, if we're starting at a baseline of most people, I don't think, and you've probably seen this in some of your clients, right? They have none of these tools. So how do you recognize it?

And then what is maybe like your number one, 101 basic first thing for starting to quiet that brain? Well, to recognize that all you have to do is say to yourself, okay I want to stop thought if you can't stop thought you're not in control of your mind and so you know so then the journey becomes okay so how do I stop thought and that is the journey of meditation that's the journey where you begin and find a single pointed focus and I would suggest breathing because it's always there and handy and you start breathing into and that that noise and you start breathing into it and giving your mind something to focus on like as you breathe in say in as you

breathe out say inwardly say out and you just continue that and maybe you begin to extend the in and the out by counting you know one up to 20 while you hold the breath in and 20 as you hold the breath out you know and that can keep going up to 50 or 60 or whatever it is you know you're just working through your fears of life and death as you as you do that. that. But what you're going to recognize, everybody does, is, oh, well, what's all that noise about? And that noise is always about you're unhealed, unacknowled, unacknowledged, and dealt with childhood issues. And they're really, you know, that's the beauty of it is you learn that, oh, when I'm struggling with something in my life, that's really just nothing but an indicator that something's ready to be healed, something's saying,

oh, okay, yeah, we can figure that out, but we need access to more of who and what we are. So we need to heal that part so we can become more whole unconscious and access that wisdom, that knowledge, that awareness. And so, you know, it only takes a couple of months to really heal our emotional backlog sufficiently so that you can monitor and deal with it on your own

as things will continue to come up, maybe throughout your life. But you have the tools, you have the ability to take care of those as they come up. And to be honest with you, when they come up, you don't see them as, oh, my God, I've got to deal with this now. No, they're opportunities to learn and grow and develop. There are opportunities to become whole.

You know, you were talking about when you were working and talking with your friend at lunch, you were open and honest with each other. Well, if you heal that past, if you really have gotten to that, point of openness, that cave door, those cave doors are wide open. You know, you put up party lights, you have music on, you invite your friends in. If they see anything, you know, they're going to point that out to you and you're to there, you know, to them as you're going to their caves. Those caves rather than something you hid yourself and hid away from others hoping nobody had recognized that existed, those aspects of yourself existed. So you, you know, avoid rejection

and being hurt, those cave doors are open. And that's, you know, that wholeness of who you are brings out the uniqueness, the character of who you are, which allows you to be unique enough to actually live your life fully and be successful. Otherwise, you're just sort of meandering in the noise and fear of success, fear of failure, fear of everything, you know, runs your life. I, this year I had there, or 2023, I guess, in the last year, but it was 2023, had the opportunity to see Jordan Peterson live in Utah talk. And I had heard him talk about this topic on his podcast before.

It was the first time I got to see it live. But it was the idea, and it's very simple, of tell the truth, right? And people hear that and they're like, yeah, of course, tell the truth. Yeah, okay. But the way that he dives into this concept, to me, is exactly what you're discussing in terms of letting people into the party and letting them see the things because he goes into this in a way that only he can, so I'm not even going to try to do it justice, this thought experiment on why it's important.

And ultimately, he comes out with a conclusion that the only way to live in reality is to tell the truth. And the first time I heard him say that was probably five years ago. Again, I got one of his podcasts and I couldn't tell you what it was. but hearing it again live and watching them actually work through the thought process in real time, it hit me even harder and became really something I said to myself is this, this needs to be a core value in my life because, one, I guess lying is immoral for sure, you know, I guess especially if you're religious. However, more of the concept that was this idea of if I'm not telling,

telling the people in my life the truth, I'm not living in reality. And the idea there was, if I say something to you that is untrue, you, Ron, are going to respond to that as if it is, right? So now I'm getting a response to you. I'm getting an honest response or what I would perceive as an honest response to an untruth, which means we're not actually communicating in reality because I told you something that I didn't actually believe. You gave me a response on that thing that was untrue to begin with.

And now we have a relationship that's based on concepts that don't actually exist. And I feel like that relationship debt builds over time. And so many of the poor relationships that I've had, I could almost pull back to this idea. And in the time, I obviously couldn't wrap my head around this concept. But listening to you describe it here in a way. And I really like that visual of like letting your friends come in and party and see all, see everything with the lights on. And they can point out the, hey, man, you might want to dust that corner off or whatever.

Like, you know, that to me, I think is a really good visual because everyone can imagine someone can marry me with their house. But, and now your friends are actually, they're living in reality with you. And maybe one of those friends. And I think this is the hard part. And I guess this is maybe a really good place for you to jump in. is, excuse me, is the hesitation is obviously what if Ron doesn't like me. What if I tell Ron exactly who I am?

And I would love for Ron to like me. And Ron hears exactly who I am and goes, you're not really somebody that I want in my life. Or I think you're okay, but I don't want to have the type of relationship you want to have. And now I'm hurt because you have rejected me. And if I had just lied to you about who I was or massaged pieces of me, this person who I wanted in my life would be in my life. How do we get past that concept?

Because maybe not just in relationships or marriage or whatever, but in business, this is just as true in business. We do it with our best employees. We do it with our business partners, our vendors, our board members, our investors. We create these false realities and then we're surprised when they react to the false reality

or that they buck when they actually figure out what the truth is. But we do it over and over and over again. So how do we stop this cycle? One, I guess do you agree with this little monologue that I went on? And two, how do we- I think you're absolutely wrong? No. How do we buck the cycle?

Or how do we have enough confidence in ourselves to say, even if Ron is someone that I would love to have as a dear part of my life, I have to show him myself. And if he decides that that's not what he wants, I need to be okay with that. How do we do that? Well, you've hit the nail in the head that most of us grow up, you know, because I've asked all over the world,

whether it's a child want more than anything else. And everybody shouts out love. Do you want conditional or unconditional love? Unconditional love. So a child wants unconditional love. I'm just confident of that. So what will they do to get it? And everybody shouts out whatever they need to, anything.

And so the question is, well, what did you? do to get love. What parts of you did you give up? What parts of you did you develop? You know, who did you become, you know, you learned who to be, what to feel, what to say, what not to say, who not to be, all so that you would fit in because you were looking for love outside of yourself. So the beauty of healing the inner child, of doing that inner work and becoming more self-aware is the big shift that I see, even literally within two months, is they begin to look within themselves for that acceptance and love. So that paradigm shift, their program for getting love rather than then, well, to be a nice person, to be a cheever, to be, you know, whatever they think

they need to be to get love from others, becomes, to get love, I need to love and accept myself. And that becomes their journey. And so they're not worried about what other people think. They aren't in relationships. They aren't in the big game of being a rescue or a persecutor or victim. They're in the game. They're outside of that game completely. And in a game of just really recognizing everything is an opportunity to learn and grow

and to recognize a part of themselves that's ready to be healed and accepted and loved. and to become the journey of becoming whole, becomes a journey of being authentic. And it's from that integral place of wholeness and self-acceptance and love that you move through the world. So if somebody's doing that with somebody like myself, I'm not judging, I'm not even really listening to what they're saying. I'm listening to what's behind it.

You know, they're revealing a great deal to me, you know, which doesn't always make them comfortable, but it's, you know, it's what they're not saying that tells me as much as what they are. And so, you know, I ask questions. You know, my wife jokes, you know, I'll go to lunch with somebody and she'll joke when I get home. Would you make them cry?

What do you mean? But the truth is, I ask questions. And I love rabbit holes. It's like, well, what's down that rabbit hole? What's that thing you just avoided? Yeah. To see what's down there because that's who you truly are. And so you live your life differently.

And you live your life. You're not looking for people who are playing that outside game. You're looking for people who are more open and connected than exploring. You know, so you can unpack your bag. You know, I had lunch with a fellow. He's a, you know, master, grandmaster and Marshall. arts, you know, been teaching it for 60 years, and we had to lunch every day for years and years until he moved out of the country. But, you know, and every day we would just, you know,

talk about everything and anything, not just business, which was a part of it, but anything and everything. And in that, you, you're exploring just what, you know, what is left behind that needs to be healed because why would I ever leave any part of myself behind? You know, if one of my sons said, you know, we were at a picnic and I couldn't find him and, you know, two years later, he finally comes to the door and I can see that he's gone through hell, you know, am I going to just slam the door on his face? Or am I going to open that door and invite him in and support him and all the healing that he needs to go through, all the anger that he has for me, abandoning him, all the things that he needs,

I'm going to give them to him unconditionally without waiver because I love him. And if we can't do that with ourselves, if we can't go in and help heal that inner child, for me, that little boy within, then we're lost in the noise. We're lost in that we don't want to be responsible for ourselves, our life, and anything else.

So I'm just going to get lost in the noise and not be brave enough to actually respond and be able to respond appropriately on all levels to what's coming into my life. It seems to me, and this is anecdotal, I don't have any numbers in front of me, that there's been a resurgence in openness around people talking about their faith, about God, about whatever status that is for them, and where God and faith play a role in their lives. I felt like for a while people were hesitant to be public about those topics or to bring them up.

And I guess to me, again, that's anecdotal. So assuming that it's true in this scenario, it might not be. And if you have evidence, I'd certainly be interested. I just haven't done the research on the topic. It's mostly just from, again, as many people as I follow. to me that seems like a counter move to what has been a very secular few decades in our society. It seems like, you know, I've seen my own sister go through this. I've seen many friends who have pulled away from faith, away from God.

And no judgment on which version you choose. I have my thoughts on God comes to us all in the way. I think there's about 300 and some gods. So, yeah. Yeah, but, you know, and I, and I actually fight with my, even though I'm technically a Christian and follow Christian practices, I get in arguments with my mother. She's a very, she's a, my mom is a saint, but she's also a Bible literalist, literalist. And we have a lot of really fun arguments because I'm of the opinion that I, I don't, this is so off track, but I guess I've already gone down the past. So I have to follow it for a second. I feel very strongly. that all the religions are God. He comes to you in the time and in the way that he needs to present himself to you. And whether, you know, because I said to where I go, so what?

Everyone in Japan pre 1557 or whenever the first Christians got there is just screwed. Like, because they didn't have Christianity. They're just all that entire part. They're all screwed. Like, I don't understand. Like, you know, explain that to me. So whatever. So my point in saying this is, um, is,

It feels like our society very much has made this very secular, very materialistic, narcissistic move the last two decades. And maybe that's to do with the internet. You know, there's a lot of different reasons for that. And now there seems to be this counter move back to these ideas of mindfulness. If maybe God is beyond where you want to be right now and you want to be more in kind of a meditative, non-religious mindset, but similar breathing techniques, mindful techniques, or you're going down a faith base. do you see this move coming back? Like is that, does that, does my anecdotal observation make sense to you and are,

and are you seeing similar things? And do you think it's from this kind of very like self-oriented last few decades that we've had? Does that, does that seem like the right way to position the argument? I'm okay with that. Okay, okay. So that being the case. Oh, sorry, sorry, keep going. Sorry.

Well, people talking about religion isn't talking about themselves. A lot of people hide behind their religion and let their religion define who they are. So you've got to be a little bit of- I think there's some fairness. I think there's some fairness in that comment. I would accept that. You know, I've studied a lot of religions. I started when I was about 12, you know, as a Christian and started literally going to other churches

at their synagogues wherever. branched out into Hinduism and Buddhism and a lot of other things. And, you know, so it's a matter of, I'll be really bold here. I think you're, you know, please. Yeah, I think your religious choice is determined by your level of fear. And so it's, you know, when you get to a certain point, you know, when you meditate and and dissolve in the infinite and recognize the oneness, is that God? Yeah, certainly, most certainly.

But what if, you know, when you study physics and you recognize that you recognize the perfection of the world, you recognize the perfection of existence. And it's like, okay, well, so did God really spend that much time creating this earth and us in this huge vastness? Or is there, you know, God is something more than what I'm really contributing or, you know, saying that he or she is?

you know so to me the one thing you can rely on is you know it's like if you and i were walking on a dirt road and there was a dirt bank off to our right and and i saw a gold pocket watch at the bottom of that dirt hill you know i don't think you would you know if i said to you oh my god look the rocks fell down and turned into a gold watch you would go well maybe somebody dropped it there yeah yeah and the reason you would do that is because the complexity You know, it's too sophisticated, it's too complex to just be accidentally happening. And so is the world, and so is the universe, so exalowing his existence. It's intimate perfection that goes through all of it.

And so I find myself going, well, I don't know about a god, because, you know, I grew up with the God sitting in a big chair kind of thing initially. But I do recognize that there's a consciousness behind it all. And so everybody, it's like the Hindu story where there's five blind men climbing through the jungle or hiking through the jungle and they run into an elephant. One's holding the tail, one the leg, one the ear, one the trunk, one the side of the elephant. And they all describe this beast in completely different ways. You know, and I think that's really what's happening is we're in this jungle. We're lost in this jungle and we're looking for something.

and meaning and some anchor that gives us a feeling of safety and confidence. And we find this elephant and, you know, so all these blindmen go off and they create religions. You know, there's the tail religion, the trunk religion, the leg religion, the ear religion. And yes, that's fine. And that works for certain people. But, you know, the truth is, what if you really are willing to quiet your mind and really let yourself experience the oneness with God? What if you're really willing to let go of your attachment to this physical form and experience

the connectedness that you have with that vast consciousness that is filled, you know, that is existence? Then you begin to recognize that religion is, you know, is a workable tool for people and it helps them feel more comfortable and it gives them focus in their life and perhaps creates a bit of sand, although millions of people being killed because of it. You know, so it's really a matter of, you know, what level do you want to play on?

You know, when you look at, you know, in Macea, the king said, geez, you know, we're going to throw out this part of the Bible and we'll bring in this part. And, you know, so this one guy for political reasons so that the Christians and other people would lack him and he could stay in power, you know, really, really defined what the Bible is all about. And yet, you know, I have people come to my door going, well, it's in the Bible. And it's like, yeah. This is, you know, it's funny. And this is the struggle when I talk to my mom.

And we have, when I say this, we have amazingly productive yet combative conversations in so much as like, you know, our varying views. But I tend to skew more towards you. And I said, I go, my, can just take King James, right? Didn't change too much other than the definition of words, literally changed how we define certain terms, which drastically changes our interpretation of what's going on. So, like, when you say, you know, and again, I'm not knocking my mom. She's, like I said, a saint and is probably on a deeper plane than even myself.

So, you know, not that she listens to the show. She does not. But, but, but, but, you know, she wouldn't be up to me saying this. And I just, and because there's a lot of people that feel this way. And my point is, and I think this is what you're trying to get to. And it's, I wholly agree with your, your, your, you're, what you're saying. To me, I see all the religions and meditation and varying other things as different handrails on the steps leading to the same place. And if you see them as that and not the actual laws of the world, but as a handrail, as a guide to this to this higher place than which physics gets you to, which I was a math major in college, math gets you to, all these things.

if you allow them to and you don't get caught in the ideology of the thing, but in seeing it as a, you know, I'm creating this visual of a handrail, they all take you to the same place. I mean, literally string theory is built, if you believe string theory and, and I don't know that I do, but, you know, this whole concept is built on the thing that literally everything in the universe is connected, right, that quite literally everything is connected. And how you could believe that's true and not believe in a oneness or God,

whatever you want to name, you know, this, this oneness is a good way of putting it in the terms of our conversation today. I don't know how that's possible. So here is my actual question for you that we can go back to a tactical usage for someone from a business context is I believe whether they are, whether they are embracing religion for all the right reasons or not, or depending on how deep they are, meditation, mindfulness, et cetera. And regardless of it's J.O. Christian or or or or Hindi, et cetera, I believe,

I believe the resurgence of these topics are a countermoved from two decades of, as I said, selfishness, narcissism, secularism, et cetera. Let's say someone listening to this is still caught in. Do I still have you, Ron? Yep. Okay, good. Okay, good. The screen froze for a second.

Good. I'll cut that part out. Yeah, no, it's fine. It's fine. The internet probably knows we're talking about religion is starting to knock us down a little bit. No, so let's say someone is listening to this and they can feel that sense. And I've seen this and talk to some of my friends about this, right? They feel that little bit of like, man, my life has been a little bit all about me, even though I have a spouse or a partner or kids or, you know, how do you, how do you what are some just like we talked about a little bit with the quieting your mind what are some initial steps to to to that someone can take that that don't feel to you know some people get a little

overwhelmed with some of the stuff we're talking about right what are some of the initial steps that people can take to start to break free of the I'll call it that the the the cage of self orientation to to to starting to think about some of the things we're talking about right I obviously you're farther down the path to me and I'm farther down the path the most. For those who maybe are towards the beginning of this path, but they understand it, they feel it, they want it.

What are some of the things that you would recommend for just those initial non-scary steps to get a little bit of momentum going down this path? I would share what I do. I mean, that's what I do. You know, I've studied and learned and, you know,

I've gone through a thousand different tools and practices. and that type of thing in math. And the one that is always there for me is breathing. So if you, you know, what I'm recommending is become responsible for your life to the point where you can respond appropriate on all levels of what's coming into your life. And, you know, so you have to breathe. You have to heal that backlog. You have to quiet your mind.

And the only way to quiet your mind is to give your mind something to focus. on you can't you can't tell your mind oh quiet down because that's the mind talking to the mind which only raises the level of confusion so you have to you have to breathe because that connects you to your feelings and that connects you to your heart and of course that's when you go oh those feelings are getting the way maybe I should heal those oh that heart is in the way maybe I should open that and that is it is that problem people are going to choose how deep are they interested in going?

And that depth that they go will determine their depth of their consciousness. That will determine their depth of their ability to recognize the perfection of the world. You know, to me, everything that comes into my life is perfectly designed to support me and open out my heart than living more fully. Most people, most of what comes into their life scares the bejes at them, and they shut down and hide from it and that type of thing. You know, the truth is I was given a gift very early on, you know, and it's probably the worst best gift I've ever received.

And I was in the Marine Corps during Vietnam, and it was not a happy place for me. I went in all, you know, athletic and ready to go and realize what a nightmare it was. And when I got out, I was a mess. and lost, you know, I got divorced, lost custody, my boys, you know, lost everything. And it was in a moment of literally in the middle of the woods, I'd chosen to take my life. And, you know, I was a big guy, and I had a big hunting knife, and it was coming towards my heart at full speed.

I wasn't, you know, looking for excuses or haphazard ways of doing it. And somehow in that moment, I dissolved in a way. ball of light, you know, and at 21 or two, I had no idea what that was. No awareness of myself, no awareness of the world around me. But what I did have, what I did experience is the perfection of existence, the beauty, the oneness of life, the meaning that my life had within all of that. And it gave me purpose and direction because I wondered, okay, how do I live with an awareness of that oneness rather than the duality. How do I rely on that oneness to bring out the best in me?

In other words, as I later learned, how do I live from a place of consciousness that allows me to really enjoy the oneness rather than have to struggle with the duality and be limited in my little comfort zone? So I don't have to respond. I don't have to be responsible for things that I'm uncomfortable. with looking at or dealing with in life. Have you ever read The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer? I probably have.

I'm certainly familiar with the title. So I'm a voracious reader. Yeah, me too. Me too. I'm with you. And I'm also very draconian. My library is books that pass a cut. I will throw a book one chapter in in the garbage and move on to the next one if it feels contrived or whatever.

And I love it. And I love all different stuff. But to Michael Singer, and then I want to address one more thing with you, he, the whole book is a non-religious breakdown of the concept that we are not our mind and we are not our body. He refers to as a soul. Insert, whatever word makes you most comfortable. but this concept that our mind and our body are physical manifestations in this plane that are meant solely to keep us alive. And the narrative that we hear on a day-to-day basis is not us.

That is our mind just projecting thoughts, most of which are fear-based because fear is what keeps us alive and has been evolved to keep us alive. So you are essentially being pounded all day long with fear, based thoughts and you can hear them right in you know and unless and and he goes to this idea that you talked about very much so that that by quieting our mind by listening by by being able to to find what you call big mind you can actually start to dissolve that narrative that is that is just an onslaught and when you do you it's like the first time excuse me that you ever get to experience who you actually are and what you actually are.

actually believe in life because you're just having this narrative hit you in the face all day that you think is you. Most of us are never taught that that's not us. It's our mind or our body sending signals to our to us to say this is how you keep us alive. You know, fear, fear, fear, fear, avoid this, don't do this. Be scared of this. Don't say this. Fit in here. You know, whatever because those are all the things that keep us alive yet none of which is who we actually are. And it just relates in some ways, at least closely to what you're saying. And I just, I try to push that book as much as I can because it was so meaningful. You can, you, it's a very quick read.

It's a very easy read. But the concepts in it are very, very deep. And to me, it's, it's another data point to, to support exactly what you are saying, that, that we have, that unless we understand who we truly are. And the only way to do that is to, is to be quiet. And however you can get there, I've used meditation. Sometimes I'll tell you, quite honestly, that our father prayer works for me. I will just almost like a mantra, I'll just repeat it and repeat it and repeat it and repeat it. And then it will kind of get quiet in my mind.

And then all of a sudden, I'll be in this state of peace. And that's just how I get there. I think everyone uses the ways of getting in. Think in terms of the noisy of your mind, the noisy your meditation has to be. Yeah. So, yeah, you might. want to have music on you might have to stare at something you might have to be saying something you might have to you know all of that together is you need that level of

noise to quiet and focus the mind and that's fine but at some point as the mind gets quieter and quieter you begin to okay well I don't need the music okay I don't need that visual okay I don't need that and pretty soon you know it comes down to well okay my single pointed focus my breath and I'm going to use my breath in various ways to extend that single pointed focus so that I can quiet the mind completely. It's in quieting that mind that you empower yourself ultimately to, as you're suggested, to discover who and what you've written really are. Because otherwise you're, you know, you're just not able to take responsibility for your life because you don't even know who and what you want your capable love.

I just finished Bruce Lee's striking thoughts, which is a wonderful look into a very dynamic and interesting human being. Some of it is just the ramblings of an individual. Some of it is really, really interesting and intriguing. And he talks a lot about the Confucian idea of knowness and this idea of the, you know, and I've said this on the podcast many times, it's a, it's a slightly different, but cut from the same part of the book, he expands on that idea of knownness and he tries to describe it in this idea of the value of the cup is in its emptiness and that we are not, we cannot be

who we are unless we enter all situations as an empty cup would, right? Open to the world, you know, devoid of these incessant thoughts that are constantly filling our mind, devoid of ego and all these kinds of things. It's a really interesting concept in book for those who are interested in. it. But my second to last question, I got two questions for you, and then I would be very, try to be respectful over your time, although I know we're close. I'm doing. I apologize. So you just told an amazing story, and I want people to dig into it further. And my last question will be where they can find out more about you and your work and dive into that. I just have one

question about that experience. And it's, you're standing in the woods and you're driving this knife towards your heart and you you you you're enveloped by this white ball of light um this experience happens it ends you have not killed yourself you're standing there you have a knife in your hand actually the knife is about 20 feet away knife is about 20 feet away what is your next thought like like this just happened to you something that that you will it will forever define a moment in your life and and and obviously change the course of your life very much so what is your next thought in that moment what is the what is the first thing that hits you that that you're like you know what what is the first thought that hits you when that happens i'm just interested in that

how do i reconnect with that and so i literally went to a little cabin on an island you know i'm talking outhouse, you know, wood stove, water pump type of cabin. And I read and studied and breathed and quieted and began to explore who, you know, began to heal all that, you know, when I went in the Marine Corps, I was, you know, I was a U.S. champion rower. I was married or engaged to the, you know, this teenage California. And, you know, I'm thinking, okay. this is my life, I'm doing all right. Yeah, yeah. And I came out, and within a year or two, everything was, you know,

I had no direction, no sense of everything. So when I had that experience and really realized the perfection of my life, which I had no sense of before, I realized the oneness. I realized that's my religion. And so, okay, so what's my church? Well, my church is probably nature. And how do I get to that place in my church

so that I can recreate that whenever I want? And so that became my journey. And the breath has taken me into that. I can quiet my mind. I can go into any state of consciousness I want. I do see the perfection of life constantly, even in the worst of times. and really, you know, I'm not coming from that place of fear.

I'm not. Why would when you recognize how limited it is? You know, if you're in the middle of a crisis, do you want to contract and decrease your ability to handle that crisis? Or do you want to be present and expand your ability to handle that crisis? And of course, reasonably speaking, you're going to want to expand. You're going to want to have the best perception reaction that you can have. So that's how the people I work with, that's how they begin to live.

And that's the art of high-level leadership. You know, the one thing I saw when I first started, I mean, leadership is the higher their level of consciousness, the higher level of their leadership, the more connected they are with others. and more able to relate and really create an environment. It's like, well, yeah, I've spent my whole life helping people move into higher states of consciousness, so I focus more on living and working in the world and doing that.

And so, yeah, it's just, you know, you make up your highest intention. Mine is to create a more conscious and caring world, you know, And the best way to do that because high-level leaders can really can have the greatest impact on a organizational or societal level. So, all right, since I have this unique ability to take people into those levels of leadership, that's what I'll do. And so that's the process that I'm in the middle of. I love it. This has been a tremendous conversation.

So I've enjoyed it immensely. And if you saw my crazy notes, you'd think I was either. planning some sort of attack or that I was completely manic. But I've just, I've written down so many ideas that I'm going to think on more after this. And it just appreciates so much of your time. For those who've listened that want to learn more about you, about your work, about where they can dive in, where is the best place for them to go? Well, just my website runs. That's

information on free on free stuff if they're looking for ways to begin their journey. But if they're ready to have a conversation and look at what they really want, what they're at the effective, then they'd go to next level discovery call.com.

And yeah, it's not a sales call. It's really, It's like, where are you? What's your biggest challenge? What's your biggest dream? And let's figure out how you can, what you need to do, who you need to become so you can create that dream. Well, for everyone listening, I will have Ron's contacts, his website, the website he just mentioned as well,

Next Level Discovery Call.com. In the show notes, whether you're listed on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, wherever. Also, obviously, you can just go there direct. But if you forget, just go to the show notes. and you could find all that. Ron, I appreciate your time so much. I have enjoyed this conversation thoroughly, and I hope that this isn't the last time that we connect. Anytime. No, we know. Yeah, make it look. Make it look. Thank you.

Hey, stand-up guy born 10 toes. Big body pull up in a range rolls. I can chase a whole game when I say so. I pull up, shut it down. Yeah, they know. Running this game and a game for me. I never switched to no change in me. The only thing changed in this season you go against me, then you know that you tweaking okay. Because baby, I'm him. I'll be. on 10. Two stepping in the party. I do not dance. Watch how I move.

Make it look easy. Counting up wins, that's part of the plan. Black male taking up my head is a C. That can't fail. I'm not picked the reason. I'm repeat. I'm need deep. Need a job best that you see me.

I'm too sick. Yeah, I know I make it look easy. Easy, easy. Yeah. Tell them don't try to play me. Yeah, yeah. I'm drippy on the daly. They can never count me out.

They can never count me out. I know. They can never count me out. They can never count me out. Close twice as many deals by this time next week. Sound impossible, it's not. With the one-call closed system, you'll stop chasing leads and start closing deals.

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