Finding Peak w/ Ryan Hanley - Learn This Skill If You Want to Build an Audience | Shawn Anthony

Episode Date: August 22, 2024

Spartan philosophy, built in the black-ops lab of business: https://www.findingpeak.comFinding Peak podcast: https://linktr.ee/ryan_hanleyUnlock the secrets of successful podcasting with our guest, Shawn Anthony, founder of PodProMax. Go deeper in the rabbit hole: https://linktr.ee/ryan_hanleyConnect with Shawn AnthonyWebsite: https://podpromax.com/Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/schools-over-now-what/id1405269030Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shawnranthony_/Gain exclusive insights into the commitment and strategic thinking necessary to thrive in the podcast world. Shawn passionately reveals why everyone should seize the opportunity to showcase their skills and knowledge as a podcast guest, even if hosting isn’t for them. We'll juxtapose the unique experiences of being a host versus a guest, offering practical advice for leveraging both roles for maximum personal and professional impact.Journey with us as we explore the essence of curiosity in podcasting. Discover the art of crafting authentic, engaging conversations by embracing spontaneity and moving away from rigid scripts. Shawn shares compelling stories of how diverse and unexpected guest choices have led to some of his most memorable episodes. Learn from industry leaders like Joe Rogan, and understand the importance of continuously evolving your podcast format to keep your audience hooked.Build a podcast community that reflects your unique personality and mission with actionable strategies from Shawn. From signature sign-offs to creating exclusive communities, we offer tips to forge strong connections with your audience. Elevate your guest network by learning effective techniques to attract high-profile guests, even if you’re not a household name yet. With practical networking examples and the power of forward-thinking, Shawn shows you how to embody your future success today. This episode is a treasure trove of inspiration and practical advice for anyone on their podcasting journey.--Recommended Tools for GrowthOpusClip: #1 AI video clipping and editing tool: https://link.ryanhanley.com/opusRiverside: HD Podcast & Video Software | Free Recording & Editing: https://link.ryanhanley.com/riversideWhisperFlow: Never waste time typing on your keyboard again: https://link.ryanhanley.com/whisperflowCaptionsApp: One app for all your social media video creation: https://link.ryanhanley.com/captionsappGoHighLevel: It's time to take your business workflow to the Next Level: https://link.ryanhanley.com/gohighlevelPerspective.co: The #1 funnel builder for lead generation: https://link.ryanhanley.com/perspective--Episodes You Might Enjoy:From $2 Million Loss to World-Class Entrepreneur: https://lnk.to/delkFrom One Man Shop to $200M in Revenue: https://lnk.to/tommymelloIs Psilocybin the Gateway to Self-Mastery? https://lnk.to/80upZ9This show is part of the Unplugged Studios Network — the infrastructure layer for serious creators. 👉 Learn more at https://unpluggedstudios.fm.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hey, this is Michael Rosenbaum. Hey guys, Tom Welling. Look, we've both played heroes. And we both played villains. But in the real life, there are no reshoots, no stuntmen, or sequels. We all have made mistakes. We're all human. Making one bad decision can not only land you in jail, but could also put yourself and other

people around you in serious risk. Be smart. Make a plan. Catch a ride. Stay put. Don't let a high moment turn into a lifetime of regret. This holiday season, be your own hero. If you feel different, you drive different.

Drive high, get a DUI. Paid for by NHTSA. You're going to hear that. That's me in Tokyo learning to make sushi from a master. How did I get here? I invested wisely. Now the only thing I worry about is using too much wasabi. Get where you're going with Spy, the world's most traded ETF.

Getting there starts here with State Street investment management. Before investing, consider the funds, investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses. Visit StateStreet.com. For prospectus containing this and other information. Read it carefully. Spy is subject to risks similar to those of stocks. All ETS are subject to risk, including possible loss of principle. Alps Distributors, Inc. Distributor.

The McDonald's snack wrap is back. You brought it back. Ranch snack wrap. Spicy snack wrap? You broke the internet for a snack. Snack wrap is back. You can kind of tell when someone's having a conversation they're interested in and a conversation where they're just trying to reach a benchmark.

Whenever you're passionate about something, you're going to naturally talk about it. And I think that's what we're doing here today. Let's go. Yeah, make it look, make it look. The Ryan Hanley Show shares the original ideas, habits, and mindsets of world-class original thinkers you can use to produce extraordinary results in your life and business. This is the way. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the show.

Today we have an incredible conversation for you with Sean Anthony, the founder of Pod Pro Max, a talent management company that helps place incredible individuals. on podcasts like this show. So I actually work with them. Their talent managers are incredible. And some of the fantastic guests that we've had on the show recently are because of the relationship that I've developed with Sean and his team. And they continually deliver epic guests with incredible stories and tons of value to deliver to you guys.

Now, what we dive into in this episode is the podcast business. So not just how to create a podcast, all that you can find on YouTube. I'm talking about the business of podcasting. What does it look like? How do we grow? How do we monetize? Where do we find opportunities to expand our brand? How do we launch our own products?

Sean is the man when it comes to the business of podcasting. Incredibly connected, dynamic. He's got his own podcast, which is wonderful and blasting up the charts. Frankly, we compete to a certain extent in the podcast industry. And I love that. And I love Sean's insight. I love his energy. And if you are considering a podcast or have a podcast yourself, this is an episode you do not want to miss.

This is your first time here. We'd love for you to subscribe, whether you're listening on Apple, Spotify, or wherever, or if you're watching on YouTube, guys, if you have thoughts, feelings, comments, leave them either in the review section of wherever you're listening, or go to YouTube and leave a comment or a question in the YouTube comments. Whenever someone does that, I draw the guest back in and that guest, 99% of the time will answer your questions directly. I appreciate the hell out of you for listening to this show. I know you have many options in where you spend your time. And I love that you choose to spend it with this podcast.

Let's get on to Sean Anthony. Dude, I've been excited to chat with you for a while. I've, you know, having your name coming up the last couple weeks because you're the podcast guy, man. I mean, you're the, you're the podcast pro. Like, you guys, you know this game. Obviously, I love it, but it's your business. So I'm, I'm always interested in this question when I talk to podcasters. Like, this is a commitment.

It's a job, whether it's a hobby or not, right? Like, this is something you have to do. You have to take it seriously. What was it about podcasting in particular that just drew you in and caught your attention? Well, I think, one, it just gave me a stage. If you're somebody right now that is struggling. to get on a platform, to be speaking in front of large audiences, you can plug up the microphone and be able to touch thousands in many different countries.

And I think having that stage to either express something that you're passionate about or either tell the world something you're good at is extremely important. I think that's what attracted me to podcasting. Are you a believer that everybody should have a podcast or do you have a different take? I believe everyone should not have a podcast. I believe, though, I strongly believe, though, everybody should be a guest on a podcast. What happens in life is that you're going to become really good at something. And when you become really good at something, you need to tell somebody about it.

And what better stage to be on than a podcast where there's an expert asking you questions where you can show your expertise, but also stand out as an authority. one of the things that I've found, I completely agree with you, one of the things I've found is when I'm a guest on other podcasts, I say things in a different way than I say them when I'm the host. And I like that. Like I catch myself explaining, maybe telling a story differently or explaining a part of my belief or past or whatever in a different way. And I'm like, ooh, sometimes like, ooh, I like the way I just said that. Like, I have never said it that way before because when you're in host mode, you know, I like, I probably one of the piece of feedback that I get all the time, maybe more criticism is that I, I talk too much. But I'm like, this is a conversation. Like, I want to be here with you and, and have this conversation.

And it's funny how when someone's asking you questions, you will frame things differently than when you're the one asking the host that's normally. asking the questions. You find that? Absolutely. Your mind is trained a certain way where your mind is more relaxed to give your honest thoughts and opinions when you aren't thinking about what question could I ask them or how can I make it entertaining or how do I play off the answer they just gave. So you're actually, it's almost like basketball in a point where you're in a practice-type environment and there's nobody guarding you when you are the guests. You're literally just taking shots you're literally just getting into the right spot and learning where your hot spots are

and your hot zones are. So I would 100% agree there is a complete difference when you're a guest versus when you're a host, but also you've got to prepare different, right? As a host of a show, you've got to have an idea of, okay, who's this person in front of me?

What have they accomplished? What have they may have never said on a podcast before that I can get out of them? Whereas when you're the guest, you're just trying to add value to someone's audience after you understand who their audience is. Dealing with as much guest talent and host talent as you have, what makes a great podcast?

What are the core pieces of a podcast that people actually want to listen to and they come back to over and over again? I think they really want a host or a co-host or what may have you, whoever's hosting that show, they want to feel like they're on the couch with them. They want to feel like they're in the room with them. They want to feel like there's relevance, there's relatability. They want to feel as if this is a conversation that I'm just fortunate enough to be in the room with.

And I think a lot of the good podcasts are doing that in strategic ways. You know, there's a lot of shows now. They aren't even doing any intros. They're going right-hand to it because that attention span has changed so much. Our mind is being trained to, you know, looking at 10-second, 15-second YouTube shorts or Instagram reels. right so I would definitely 100% say that you know I think that when we create content we forget that we're not just competing against the other people in our genre or even the medium right like when you create a podcast this is one of the things that opened my eyes up to what you just said

I was talking to a guest and we were just middle of the conversation and kind of talking about content creation in general and the he said you know we have to to remember that we're also competing against Netflix. We're competing against their kids. We're competing against their job. We're competing against their spouse or partner. We're competing, you know, we are, they're deciding, this individual is deciding to spend X amount of time with you versus everything else in their life. And why should they do that? And I think too often the podcast that start and then fizzle out, often the hook is they, they aren't, they aren't considering what's in it for me from the audience's perspective.

Like what is in it for that audience member? Why should they listen to you versus Joe Rogan or Mel Robbins or one of these other podcasts like or a YouTube show or just scroll through TikTok for an hour? Right. Like that that is such a core piece of this puzzle and it's so often skipped. A hundred percent. I think, you know, a podcast has changed. You know, when I started podcasting in 2018, videocast was.

even a real big thing. I remember when I interviewed Ryan Sirhan episode seven, which changed the trajectory of our entire show, which allowed us to go after the big names, like Ed Milette and many more. I remember when we did that podcast, he even asked me, hey, do you want to come to New York? Or, hey, you know, is this video? Is this over the phone? It was just so foreign. And what I'm trying to get the audience right now to understand is podcasting has changed. And you do have to do what Ryan's talking about, figure out what is going to be the creativity, what are you going to do differently? And what I found out what works really, really successful is when the host is so curious, they're just so curious that are almost asking selfish questions. And the selfish

questions is what is really resonating with a lot of people listening to their show. They are the host. And so they want to know because they're not sitting down with Sean Anthony, they're not sitting down with some of the amazing people you've sat down with. So they want you to be a sponge and extract that from them. And I found that those are the podcasts that regardless of the big names, what really matters is how good of a conversation is happening. And I think that's the key. Yeah, you know, it's,

I find a disconnect with a host when the guest will say something. And then you'll have in your head, you'll start projecting out the next question that you want to hear from that person. And the guests will like take you in a different direction. You're like, wait a minute. That conversation wasn't finished yet. Like there's like two or three more questions you could ask there. Right.

And I think to your point, you know, and one of the things that I hope and, you know, people get out of this show is that I don't prepare questions for the show. Right. I have a direction. I understand who the person is. I have a feel for where I would like to take them. But I'm always the most interested in like what's. interesting on your brain today. And like I didn't actually, this is the first time in probably months. I didn't, I didn't ask you this question because we were talking about a whole bunch of

other stuff before we went live. But, um, I normally asked the guest, like did all my research. I know who you are. I'm excited. But like what's, what's hot on your brain right now? Like, what's got you tuned up today? Not like, like, like, in general, but like this moment. Did you just read an article? Like, what's got you tuned up? And dude, the stuff that sometimes comes out is like, completely off base. And I think while maybe someone will come to the show for a certain reason, they want to hear what that person has to say about the topic that they're most known for, and I always want to get to that stuff, I feel like there's always these little pockets of interest that people have. And if we can pull that out, that makes your show unique.

Because now you got them to say something or talk about something that normally they don't. And that's a differentiator. And it only comes from the word that you said, curiosity. So I guess my question to you is if they're if they're and I'm and I know there are podcast hosts listening to this show. How do they cultivate that curiosity? How do they make sure they bake that curiosity into their show if maybe they feel like they're not doing it enough right now? Well, they have to make sure that they're talking to people they actually want to talk to and they're not just talking to people that kind of meet a metric or a quota. You know, you can kind of tell when someone's having a conversation they're interested in it.

in a conversation where they're just trying to reach a benchmark. They're just trying to have another guest. And I always tell people, before you just have another guest, find out what topics that your audience really has. Are you tired of endless follow-ups and missed opportunities in your sales process? Chasing leads is a losing game. That's why I created the one-call closed system, a battle-tested sales system that uses behavioral psychology to close deals in just one call.

No more, let me think about it. No more, I'll get back to you. Using the one call closed system, we took new reps from 25% close ratio to over 80% in just three months. To grow fast, you must close deals faster at zero extra marketing cost. The one call closed system allows you

and your reps to build trust, address pain points, all while watching your revenue skyrocket. Ready to stop chasing leads and start closing, visit master of theclose.com today. Close twice as many deals this time next week. Visit master of theclose.com to learn how. Enjoy it or like. And it might be time for you to kind of mix it up a little bit.

Do a little bit of solo podcast. Give them the strategy to whatever they're asking about. Do a little bit more of deep dive on a very popular episode that worked in the past. And now your thoughts are six months later, right? Maybe the world has changed, you know. I do like that question that you had about. about, you know, what's exciting you right now? Like, what's really like getting you right now?

And I just thought about, as you were saying, literally about an hour ago, you know, I just received a text message from one of my good friends who's really big in a social media space asking me to go to the White House to talk about branding and social media and growth. And, you know, so that's really exciting. And in the talent management space, we brought on a new talent, a back for your podcast. they're absolutely crushing it with interviews with Joe Bud and so many more people. So that's really exciting to me.

So I think whenever you're passionate about something, you're going to naturally talk about it. And I think that's what we're doing here today. Yeah, I completely agree. I think I agree with the going off of your normal script too. And what I mean by that is like this show is mostly business, entrepreneurship, personal development, that kind of stuff. Like if you're, if you're energized and trying to get better at something and you can deliver, you know, deliver some insights, I'm interested in talking to you. But I have, we were talking a little bit about it before. And so, guys, you may not know this because I just haven't said it yet, but Sean owns a pod pro max, which in part, one of the many things you do is talent pitches to podcast hosts like myself.

And one of your people reached out to me probably three or four months ago. and had a guest, had a guest, and the guest was awesome, dialed in, loved it. I get so many pitches, a dozen pitches a day, and that is not a joke. I get a dozen pitches a day at a minimum for people to come on the show, and most of them are complete garbage. And when I saw what you guys delivered, and I'm not just stroking your ego because you're here, it's true, like, completely the right way to do it. Awesome guest.

Okay. So I start to get dialed in to them, and now when they pitch me, I kind of know your people know what I'm all about. You send me great people. And I almost, I do a tiny bit of research in the person just to make sure, you know, whatever. But for the most part, I basically just say yes, because it's a good fit. I have another, there's a couple companies that have kind of fallen into that vein. And one of the guys pitched me a jazz musician. And I was like, you know what? This dude seems like a cool dude. I've never interviewed a jazz musician before. Like, this could be a cool vein. And dude, it ended up being this incredible. His name's Jesse Thompson, J.T. Jazz. He's out of

Dayton, Ohio. Or now he lives in Columbus, but he's out of Dayton, Ohio. Awesome dude. And like, that episode will have come out when this one does so you can go back and listen if you didn't. But like, it was really fun to kind of go off of the normal vein. And it was a test as a host for me to try to deliver to my audience what I know they're looking for while still. working through this topic that feels a little off of center. And I was just like, it was a really cool experience. And I just, I think this is, we can't say stay so templated. Like the John Lee Dumas, who major props to him for all the success he's had.

But like that templated show style that he kind of pioneered maybe five, six, seven years ago, I think it's great. but at the same time, to me, it starts to feel it's too, it ends up being too templated because you just start hearing the same answers to the same questions over and over, because there's only so many different answers you can give. And it comes back to this idea of curiosity. Like, you can learn from anybody if you open your mind up and you just listen to them, right? I mean, that just.

100%. I also believe, Ryan, I think, you know, there's this thing. And I learned this from a good friend of mine. his name's Andrew Negan and he's created some amazing things. And one of the things he said to me is that in four years, you start to feel something different, a shift, a change. And I really started to think about it, right? Think about how school and education is.

When you think about, you know, freshman year to sophomore year, you think about sophomore year to junior, to senior, and the same thing happening, you know, even in college, there's really a four-year span of really going crazy doing something a certain way before you need to switch it up completely. And I think about some of those names you mentioned in their shows and their styles. What worked in, not necessarily is going to work again now. And you notice this when you look at even just the smallest things, which are big deals in the spaces that we play in like podcast charts. A lot of the shows that, you know, they were on the top of the charts three years ago are not even

cracking the top 100 or even on the charts at all anymore because everybody is evolving. You have to do something different. You have to, you know, look at, okay, how do we get people really excited again? And I think that's what's something a lot of podcasts should pay attention to. Yeah. I mean, Joe Rogan's a great example. I mean, this is the biggest, one of the biggest podcasts in the world. The dude adds in, he's always done his comedian shows, right?

Then he starts bringing in scientists and all these people like Graham Han, who, you know, I love that part of it, you know, neurophysicists and astrophysicists, all this crazy stuff. Then he starts the MMA show. Then he's got the parks, parks, you know, and again, these are like shows inside the show where I skip over the one about the parks. I think it's cool. I think it's great. It's just not something I want to spend my time on, but then I'll come back for, you know, a scientist or I do, I do like the MMA shows once in a while, whatever. And to me, it's like that constant evolution and curiosity, you know, and I love, this is going to be probably the word of the podcast, but like that is the key to this game. And I think it's the key to all creation, right, is this curiosity.

So you have your own podcast. Schools over. Now what? What was the curiosity that to start that show? Like, why that topic, why that name? Like, what was on your brain that you were like, you know what? This is going to be my thing. This is what I'm going to go with. Yeah, man, you know, for me, you know, I was somebody who had went to an HBCU prior to that. I was really big at nightlife and parties. I threw my very first party. I was 14 years old was a high school graduation party. I convinced 18 year olds to party with a 14 year old and I made over $6,000.

And so I went off to college. I graduated from Winston-Salem State University, became a big nightlife party promoter, took those marketing skills and transferred it to corporate, start brand managing companies like May, C's, my last brand manager job was actually Target. And while doing this, you know, I stumbled across podcasting as of being promoted six times and four years. And I'm listening to all these guys, Ed Milette, Chris Drama, a path, Evan Carmichael, all these guys who have been on my show.

And I saw something. And I really quickly that they didn't sound like me. They didn't quite look like me. And then I also paid attention to what all of these corporate people who constantly kept promoting me, what they were saying about. me. You know, the way that I spoke, how did I talk, and how did I saw everyone listen to certain things I would say? And I started to feel guilty in the fact that I was succeeding even after college in this corporate space and none of my friends were. And I said, what's the question

everybody's asking? And that was schools over, now what? Like, what do I do? And I took all of the amazing knowledge from other people and highlighted that. And I made that into the show in June 2018 and everything changed because so many of these big names whether it was uh mike taylor matthew nose who's also a client of ours whoever it was they could relate to the topic and i think a lot of podcasts hosts right now are creating shows or they're doing certain things and the main thing to have to think about if their show is in the show that's charting or doing anything like that is how when someone hears the title of my show how can they personally see themselves in it when they want to be a part of it.

And that's, that's what really happened. Yeah, I love that. I mean, because, you know, when I saw the name of your show,

I was like, you completely know what the person's going to talk about, right? You're going to, you, like, it draws you in. You're like, shit. Like, I didn't know anything when I graduated from school.

Like, I wonder what this person's got to talk about. I wonder what they're going to drop because it, it is, it frames it in a way that you immediately know what you're going to get in terms of the high level and then it draws the interest in to say okay so what specifically are that what what advice are they going to give like you you you can't help especially with the quite i mean i love that you have a question mark in the name of your show like it it immediately draws you in

with that kind of like fomo of what if they give me the secret you know what if the secret that i'm looking for is is contained in this you know this episode and that's exactly what you're trying to do. So when we when a podcast hosts or really any creator is is starting to think about these types of things, is there like an exercise or a mindset or a framework that you recommend that can just help them start to wrap their brain around exactly how you've been successful and other shows have been? Yeah, I think you know, when you start a podcast, I always tell people the main thing you want to think about outside of the name of the show is how do you launch the show? And so many people drop just one episode.

I think that's a complete fail. I think what you have to do, you think about all the things we really like, like whether, you know, it's a show on Netflix or like one of my favorite shows on Netflix that is a phenomenon that's no longer showing anymore. It's Ozark, right? When I started watching Ozark,

I didn't want to just watch one episode. I wanted to keep going like a series. And so when you launch a new podcast, you want to launch it with at least three episodes. The first episode should be, who are you? Like people want to know exactly who are you, how did you got to where you are today and to even want to cut on a microphone and be speaking to us.

The second episode is what should people expect? So think about, okay, this is going to be an interview style podcast where, you know, I'm going to sit down with some of the best. Or perhaps it might be a show where you're doing a mix of both. You're giving strategy. You're giving tips. And then in the third episode, you just got to start delivering it. So whatever you promised them on episode two, which shouldn't be that long, whether

you promised them an interview or whether you promised them tips, this is the episode to start giving that. And I think if you launch it with three episodes, you now have a format where you can then at some point as well in the what to expect episode, tell your audience the day the show will constantly release every single month so that they are aware of it. And now you're starting to create an audience that's starting to cultivate your content, get a feel for who you are, and now ready to go on this journey with you. I think that's, really, really important. You know, you hear all the time, intention spans have gone down. You know, I had someone tell me that wasn't like a listener feedback. It was just a friend was like, you know,

do you think your show would do better if they were shorter, right? Like, you do 45 to hour-long interviews. And I was like, I completely and utterly disagree with the attention span thing. I don't think that our attention spans have dropped. I think that our, we're way more discerning as consumers of content, right? I think the difference is you just have to be better. Like, you know, the back when, you know, so a lot of people don't know this who listened to the show today. But I actually, my first podcast that I created was in 2011.

I created a podcast called Content Warfare. It was all about marketing, strategy, content creation. I was interviewing some of the biggest and best names in all of marketing. I was at social media marketing world. this is again more than a decade ago and uh and i was in all of apple i have a screenshot in all of apple podcasts i was ranked number 11 doing 47 000 now think about this back back then this is now this is like 2013 2014 i'd been doing the show for a few years um 47000 downloads a month was number 11 in all of apple podcasts so just think about how far we've come as an industry how far

podcasting he's come as a platform, right? And I have a screenshot of Ed Milet was number nine, and Gary Vaynerchuk was number 13, and there's, there's content warfare right in the middle. Unfortunately, for reasons that seem silly now, I stopped doing that show. I just didn't know podcasting was going to be this big.

I mean, back then, people still thought podcasting was stupid. You know, today, you know, podcasting is just blown up, and it's so incredibly important. And my point in sharing that story is that, there's no right what I've realized over my career and I had actually another industry focused podcast in between there is that there's no right or wrong way to do this. So my question for you is we have these best practices that are kind of some of the foundational piece of things we have to do.

How do you recommend to people that they then start to make that podcast their own? Right? Because if you're just trying to duplicate or imitate someone else's style, that might be a good way to get off the ground. But if you really want to get traction and become something that's sustainable, you have to kind of make it your own. What are your recommendations for?

How do you think about, how do you make your podcast your own? Yeah, I love this question. I think you have to start inserting things that show your personality or reaffirms whatever the mission statement is for the show. I think a lot of podcasts, one of the biggest hacks I've paid attention to,

even when the very beginning of the podcast, is that you can have so many interviews. And there's times where, where the person you're interviewing, they might go on a tangent that has nothing to deal with what you originally started talking about. They might start talking about their dog. They might start talking about a doctor's visit. And so as a podcast host, it's important to kind of redirect that energy and let your

audience know almost like a bring at home type of thing. So try to insert your personality. Try to insert certain sayings where if a person was to go anywhere else, they know that catchphrases you. One of the things that I did didn't even realize I was doing it on a very event. very first episode, and we continue to do it even now, 300 plus episodes, is that whenever I'm interviewing anybody, the way you know the interview is about to end is that we added a question to the very end of the podcast that brought all the energy back together. So the show is called

schools over, now what? But the very last question, we asked anyone who's ever been on that platform where they walked across the stage or don't even have a degree at all, if you're asking yourself the question of the show, schools over now what? What advice would Ryan give? Or what advice with whoever that person may be give. And that ties the show back in. But then there's also a way that we sign out on the show. And one of the ways that we sign out on the show is we always say, for those you have been listening, always remember, dream it, believe it, go out and get it.

And then what happened with dream it, believe it, go out and get it, it became a catchphrase, it became merchandise, it became t-shirts, you know. And I think that's how you start inserting things that are naturally, naturally you. You know, and I think that's how you really stand out. You know, I love that. You know, and actually our mutual friend, Mick Hunt, he's always giving me crap because I have neither one of those things. He's like, bro, he's like, you, he's like, when we're on the phone, you say this, you say the same freaking catchphrases over and over, you know, whatever. He's always giving me shit.

He's like, and then on your show, he's like, you never say that shit. He's like, what do you? He's like, you need to bring that to the show. And it's funny, I get so involved in the conversation and what the person is saying that, and again, this is why I'm a shitty podcast host. I like forget, you know, I get to the end and I'm like, I'm so engaged in what the person is saying and where we're going and and trying to just find little pieces and little nuggets and draw them out that like I get to the end of the show and I'm just like, this has been awesome, you know, tell us where to go, you know. And then I'll get a text from Mick. He's like, you did it again. He's like, you didn't sign off the show. You know, it's like, you know, and I think I, you know, I think you're completely right. I mean, that structural stuff. is what builds connection to the brand. What are some other things?

Because I completely agree. A sign-off question or a closing question that kind of brings some consistency and conclusion to the show, kind of a landing of sorts and a sign-off. I completely agree with those things. What are some other things that people can do to build that raving fan mentality

with the people that listen? Yeah. I think the next thing you can look at is trying to almost. have like these focus groups, whether it's a Discord, whether it's a Patreon, whether there's something exclusively that you can go behind the scenes with. And then if you really want to go crazy, you can start creating certain events for this, this inclusive community that you're building. Right. So let's say, you know, you're listening to this show. And what's a,

what's a word that you like, Ryan, that you're really passionate about? So we talk about, um, uh, defy ordinary a lot. Defy ordinary. Like do not be, you know, whatever. that means to you, you cannot, you cannot be mediocre, you cannot fit into the crowd, you got to Defy Ordinary. So, so you can have a conference called Define Ordinary. And every time you're talking on this podcast, every time that you are having any guests, anybody, solo episode, you can create your own 15 second, 20 second commercial in between, you know, podcasting and say, hey, look, we're going to have the first ever Define Ordinary Conference happening here and blah, blah, blah.

You know, you can get your artists excited. You know what? I want to give away the first hundred tickets. If this is something that you want to be a part of, you know, and you give them an email or, you know, you have maybe a social media post that you're doing and they have one word comment and the one word is defined, right? And then, or unordinary or whatever it may be, make it simple. You start to create this community and now you can do these focus-based events for.

And I think that can be exciting as well. And then now you have these raving fans. who almost become like gladiators for you everywhere you go. Yeah. I mean, you think about it. Just think about the podcast that you've mentioned and that I've mentioned already on this show,

right? Like we obviously listen to them. We respect them. And here we are promoting them on a different podcast, you know. And you think about it, like, that's what you want. Like you want people who are out there, whether it's in their own content or when they're just bumping into a friend or playing golf or at an event or whatever going,

Hey man, do you listen to that last episode of so-and-so show, man. That really hit me hard or whatever. And that part of it is definitely something that I think I have not done enough with this community, which guys, I apologize. And there are things coming, so don't worry. But, you know, I've always been so focused. And some of this is just me as a creator. I just love the frigging conversations, man.

Like, I love the, like to me, it's about the conversations. and I definitely am a little lax on the brand building community building piece, which is something that I need to work on. I want to take a slightly different tax since we're tactical here because you've talked about, you've mentioned some incredible names, incredibly deep thinkers, original thinkers that have been on your show and that you're connected with. For that person who's sitting out there going, okay, I get it, you know, I understand what you guys are talking about.

I feel good. I got some notes here that I've taken on how to make my show better. But I'd really love to get this A-list guest that's in my industry or whatever, right? If you're not a big name yet, right, like you're not charting yet where you can say, hey, I'm Apple top 20 in this or whatever, you know, what's a method in a respectful way? Because I've seen this done and have it done to me in ways that I feel icky about. what is a good way, respectful way, to reach out to somebody and ask for their time to come on your show? Yeah, I think people are just networking wrong.

And sometimes you have to network up or network around and then make the ass. So, for example, let's just call it what it is. And MLS is a huge podcast name. He's a huge person in any space when you think about speaking, motivation, any of those things. You know, when I got towards having that interview and doing it in Laguna Beach at his home, by the time I had sat on that couch, I had already interviewed 12 of his friends that were on his show. So the familiarity of, okay, he's a trusted source. This is a trusted ask is so high, right? When you've already interviewed the Jasmine Stores, the Amy Porterfields, the Gerard Adams, it's almost a no-brainer. I think people need to start in their pitch, make that part of their pitch.

like we've interviewed names, names that they're familiar with. If they don't have a podcast and you want them on your show, maybe it might be names they're familiar with that they're following. So they might be following, you know, a very small amount of people. Typically, you know, people with a huge following. Very small, handful amount of people. And some of those handful amount of people might be the person you need to speak with first before you make this gigantic ask.

And one of the special ways to do this with athletes is, instead of going for the athlete, go for the coach, go for the trainer, go for somebody that they're familiar with, that you can now utilize this because they're going to ask that person, you know, how was it like talking to them? And we all want to be in rooms our friends are in. And I think that's the kid. Yeah, I will say that I had an athlete come on and a football player, he had retired and had become an entrepreneur. And I was really interested in that journey and that transition. And it was a great conversation. And afterwards he said to me, he goes, you know, man, I kind of, I kind of took a flyer on you because, so how I got to this guy was his dad actually for fun drives Uber.

So I was doing a keynote and I show up in Dallas, Texas to do this keynote. And I jump in the car and I'm chatting with the Uber driver because I'm just talking to person. And he tells me who his kid is. and I was like, I, like, hesitated for a sec because I was like, well, I don't mean, I mean no disrespect in this question, but why are driving room? He goes, I do it for fun. He goes, I like talking to people.

So I, he goes, I don't do it all the time once or twice a week. He goes, but it gives me a chance to talk to people. Most of them are coming in from the airport and they got interesting stories, whatever. And I was like, that's kind of cool. And then I said, hey, I have a podcast. Do you think your son would be interesting coming on? I love his story because he's telling me all about this business he's creating and stuff.

whatever. So that's how I get to the guy. So then, you know, he comes on the show and he's like, and here's the point of my story. He goes, he gets to the end and we do it. It was a great conversation. And he goes, you know, man, I took a flyer on this. He goes, I've done this a couple times where like, I didn't know the show. And he's like, oh my God, he's like, within five minutes. I'm like regretting the decision. And that's what they're thinking, right? I guess to your point, what these people are thinking is my time is valuable. I'm willing to give it to you if you're going to make it worthwhile. but you need to prove to me for me to give you my time that it's going to be worthwhile. So it's, again, it's like that what's in it for me kind of thing.

And it's, you know, I think letting them know, another one that I will sometimes do when I'm making kind of a bigger ask is letting them know, hey, I'm going to give you all the footage, you know, when it comes in, it'll all be yours, you have full rights to it. So you can chop it up. Your social media team can use it. People seem, you know, you give them like, like start, figure out what the objections are and then just start crossing them off for them in your initial ask so that, hey, there's other people. Here's two episodes that I think if you just take a quick look at, we'll give you a feel for

the show. Here's all the assets you get, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then they start to go, okay, you know, this person's going to respect my time because that's the worst thing for them is they get in and five minutes in the regretting every second of it. Oh, man, it's so relatable because we both probably have felt that, you know. In that point, when you reach the levels and heights like that, it can almost feel like like a discovery call when you're where you're with them.

So it's so important to kind of really, really make sure that you make it work there while, whether you're entertaining it, whether you're giving them the interview. They really, really wanted to always have, but no one's ever given them the opportunity to do that. And I think when you provide those type of environment, they'll come back. Yeah. And they'll refer you people. That's when you know, I think, when you've done a good job, when a guest goes, you

finish a conversation, you, you, you, you turn the mics off, or the recording off, and you, and the guests, like, you know, I got a buddy, you know, he, this, he'd love this. This is great. And then, you know, I, you know, you get that little bit of pride feeling of like, oh, I did a good job here. This has been fun. So, um, I want to ask you, uh, just a couple questions about what you do at Pod Pro Max is specifically around the idea of doing podcast tours. because I have, in a different life,

I did one for a different business. It had nothing to do with what I'm doing now. And I didn't love the way they did it. So, but I think this, something like a podcast tour, especially when maybe you're in launch mode or you're trying to push a program or you just are looking to take your brand next level is it, it, there are not enough people tapping into this as a resource for them. So talk to me a little bit about what a podcast tour is,

the value someone can get. And ultimately, how do, if they were to come to Pop Pro Max and say, guys, I got this thing. I want it to be successful. I'd love for you to do a tour with you.

How do they make that the most successful for them? Well, I love this thing because Popper Max tours and this podcast is where we take a talent. We understand more about them. probably than anyone else. So one thing that we talked about already that I think we both understand is the power of the right pitch and how quickly we understand how a terrible pitch is. So with PodPro Max, we take on a talent, we give them an intake form, we understand exactly what your business is, we understand exactly what type of shows you like, what shows you wish you

were on, and we take that and we create some of these powerful pitches. And I remember the very first podcast tour we did, shout out to Arlen Hamilton. So Arlen Hamilton, It's a huge VC. She's been seen on everything you can imagine. And she had a conference. In her conference, Your First Million Live, where she had Gary Vee, Rich Paul.

And what's so important for anyone that's thinking about a podcast tour, if you ever are thinking about promoting something, whether it is a conference, whether it's a book, whether it's your own podcast, this is the perfect thing for you to do. And when you're with the right company

that understands you, understands what your viewpoints are, and have credibility in this space. I think it's so important when I found out, you know, we've launched Popper Max now as over a year old. But what I found out with this is that the founder story, Ryan, is so key. A lot of people out here operating businesses that they've never really been in. They're operating businesses that they've never even achieved the success. And you're talking to someone who spent years in podcasting, who turned podcasting into a six-figure side hustle by the second year of podcasting when I was only podcasting one day a week.

That means that one day a week I would do the interviews, I would do the edits, I would get some of these amazing guests. All this happened only off one day of effort. So this is years of understanding, you know, the space, years of collecting relationships, identifying talent like yourself, and saying, hey, look, this is an awesome person that you don't know about, that you should learn about. And I think also what's important to pay attention to in the founder's story, what was the eye opener for me when I knew I had to go all in an entrepreneur. I had a job review, and I remember like it was yesterday, he set me down. Job reviews are the key to understanding what you're really good at without even trying. And what's so crazy about it is that your boss, whoever is your supervisor, they're getting paid to tell you. And so he told me, listen, Sean, the way you connect and collaborate with others, I've never seen anything like it.

And I got to exceed expectations. So that fueled me to start reaching out to more people, collaborating with more people. And it's just became a superpower. And I understand exactly where someone is at. And my team understands exactly who is out there that needs to work with them and that they feel good because just because it's a podcast tour, we don't want just the host. We don't want just the client feeling well. We want the host feeling well because they're now a partner of ours. And we're also satisfying a need for them because it's hard to find the right guests that will share your content.

that it'll be just as excited who will understand, okay, this person across from me has already been vetted. Like, I've already been vetted. And I think that's how you have success because I see so many companies doing it wrong. And it all comes back to founder's story, who's on their team, and then what's the credibility of where the source is coming from? And I'm excited about that because the podcast tours, you know, we do this with people who are entrepreneurs.

We do this with people who are in a television space, one of our. talents is the polites. They're on a show called 50-50 flip and real estate. You can watch it right now on Hulu. You can watch it right now on A&E. They're signed for four seasons, but they're in their second season now. But that all happened because of podcasting. Podcasting only expands the vertical arm of media. And if you want to do it correctly, I truly honestly believe that podcasting tours are the future because everyone can't sit down like you and understand what it takes to be at the top of the charts in the business category. They might not have the grit.

They might not have the hunger, but they got a story. And a platform that is connected with them could be light years and speeding them ahead of everyone that they've been watching from the sidelines. Guys, this is a good point to just take your finger and slide back about three minutes and listen to what Sean said again, because I think that this is the untapped, resource for establishing your authority in whatever you're trying to do. And even if you're a local business, right, there are podcasts in your area, your local news network, you're, you know, there's going to be someone who's talking about culture. There's the sports guy who on one of the stations

probably has his own podcast or her own podcast. And it doesn't have to be, well, you know, I own three, uh, you know, three franchise locations and I really want people to understand what I'm doing and, you know, whatever. Yeah, that's great. You can do a podcast tour that's regional. You can do a podcast tour that's specific to a niche. Like, it doesn't just have to be these big, huge shows that maybe not everyone is your niche. It's about exactly what Sean said. And I'll tell you guys.

And again, not paid to say this. I just appreciate these guys as someone who gets pitches from them. There is a right and wrong way to do this. And if you are working with a company that is not pitching you to the right shows, it will not work out for you. That host will show up and they'll try their best, but there will be an obvious disconnect between the host and what you're trying to get across. And when it works well, it's magic. Like we said at the very beginning, you say things that you wouldn't normally say.

You explain things at a deeper level. There's this connection and energy and you need the right people. And if you try to do this on your own, you can. You can. But it is an enormous amount of work. You will miss a lot of shows. that, you know, when I get pitched directly, I scrutinize people a lot because I get pitched from people who want to tell me, I did this, I did this, I did this, I did this, and I've made this mistake where they get on,

and then they're none of those things, or they're giving you, you know, I mean, I'm sure that you have experienced this or at least been around it. We're like, you ask somebody a question and like you're expecting like a two, three minute answer and you get like a sentence and you're like, oh my God, this person doesn't actually know what they're talking about. Like, we're in trouble. How the hell do I make 30 minutes work here? It's like pulling teeth, man. You know, there's what I'll also learn to just from the talent management aspect and managing talent and brand negotiations and deal making is that the hardest thing to ever do is represent yourself.

You know, there's people who have actually made their entire company on teaching you how to pitch yourself or teaching you how to make some noise by yourself. And the real high level credibility, wherever you're trying to go, to your point, you said it in a very smooth way, they don't respect that. What they want is they want to see a talent actually being represented and someone speaking on their behalf so that it's a pleasant surprise and they're already hit with so much credibility. it's a no-brainer. You know, I think a lot of people are, I think that old model of, let me teach you how to go do this yourself. You know, I kind of,

I kind of think about this, some of the worst consultants, and I think about it, some of the worst consultants, you want to know why they're really a consultant, Ryan, because they don't want to do the work. They don't want to do the work. They wanted to do the work.

They would do the work. They would have the team. They themselves don't want to do the work. So they want to just tell, you what you should do when a reality when you are being represented it is a completely different response to that yeah and as much as people may not want some people may not like this idea but in in this game authority matters and it's the perception of your authority and when now again you know somebody you meet him at a conference they text you hey bro i'd love to come on the show and

talk about whatever, that's different, right? You know the person, it's different. I'm not talking about that. But like when you're trying to say, get on a show, like, you know, a high power show who's charting and you reach out directly cold, what I feel is if this person was really doing all the things that they're going to tell me that they do in their business, they would not be reaching out cold. They would have somebody doing this for them. Because what that shows me is they're not prioritizing their time cold outreach to hosts tells me that entrepreneur that person their time should be better spent than doing that right there should be someone else researching shows putting together emails putting together pitches sending them out so now i immediately like their

authority in my mind comes down a little bit because i'm like if if they were really doing all the things they're saying they're doing they wouldn't have time to pitch me to be on my show they would have their person or a team or someone like pop pro max reaching out and you know that might not feel good to you guys some of you guys I mean some of you guys are completely understand it but like that is absolutely the truth so Sean dude I I adore what you're doing I love your philosophy your networking your approach to podcasting is phenomenal um you know the question that that I do ask when I ask it and now that you put this on me I have to ask it to you is you are an extraordinary human, how do you defy ordinary?

I defy ordinary by, I think about every room that I'm walking in and every conversation that I'm having, regardless of where I physically stand, I'm operating as my future self. And I think the more I do that, so whether it's speaking on stages, whether it is, you know, talking to anybody, you know, like right now in this podcast. you know, I'm talking to you as Deshaun Anthony, who's already achieved CAA type level because that's where I'm headed. And I think if you're listening to this right now,

you have to start today operating as if you are already who you are supposed to be. And I think that's the key. I fucking love it. Dude, such a pleasure. Appreciate you. Can't wait to work with you more in the future, brother. It'd be good.

Likewise, bro. Let's go. Yeah, make a look. Make a look. Thank you for listening to the Ryan Hanley show. Be sure to subscribe and leave us a comment or review wherever you listen to podcasts. It came in a game for me. I never switched to no change in me.

The only thing changed. There's twice as many deals by this time next week. Sound impossible. It's not. With the one call closed system, you'll stop chasing leads and start closing deals in one call. This is the exact method we use to close 1,200 clients under three years during the pandemic. No fluff, no endless follow-ups, just results fast. Based in behavioral psychology and battle-tested,

the one-call closed system eliminates excuses and gets the prospect saying yes, more than you ever thought possible. If you're ready to stop losing opportunities and start winning, visit masterof-theclose.com. That's masterof-theclose.com. Do it today. Hear that? That's me in Tokyo learning to make sushi from a master.

How did I get here? I invested wisely. Now the only thing I worry about is using too much wasabi. Get where you're going with Spy, the world's most traded ETF. Getting there starts here with State Street Investment Management. Before investing, consider the funds investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses. Visit StateStreet.com slash IM for prospectus containing this and other information. Read it carefully.

Spy is subject to risks similar to those of stocks. All ETS are subject to risk including possible loss of principal. Alps Distributors, Inc. distributor. Ten years from today, Lisa Schneider will trade in her office job to become the leader of a pack of dogs. as the owner of her own dog rescue, that is. A second act made possible by the reskilling courses Lisa's taking now with AARP to help make sure her income lives as long as she does, and she can finally run with the big dogs.

And the small dogs, who just think they're big dogs. That's why the younger you are, the more you need AARP. Learn more at AARP.org slash skills. Hey, crafters, you're invited to visit the new knit and sew shop at Michaels. Find hundreds of fabrics in over 800 stores and over 100,000 styles on Michaels.com. Shop your favorite yarn brands, including Big Twist, Karen Cakes, and Burnett in multiple styles and colors. You'll also find all the machines, tools, and notions you need with top brands like Singer, Brother, and Pelon, plus essential thread and floss. It's all new at Michaels.

The McDonald's snack wrap is back. You brought it back. Ranch snack wrap. Spicy snack wrap? You broke the internet for a snack. SmackRap is back. Did you know 39% of teen drivers admit to texting while driving? Even scarier, those who text are more likely to speed and run red lights.

Shockingly, 94% know it's dangerous, but do it anyway. As a parent, you can't always be in the car, but you can stay connected to their safety with Greenlight Infinity's driving reports. Monitor their driving habits. See if they're using their phone, speeding, and more. These reports provide real data for meaningful conversation. about safety. Plus, with weekly updates, you can track their progress over time. Help keep your teens safe. sign up for Greenlight Infinity at greenlight.com slash podcast.