Finding Peak w/ Ryan Hanley - Mike Crowley Defines the Relationship Between Insurance Agents and Carriers

Episode Date: January 17, 2020

Spartan philosophy, built in the black-ops lab of business: https://www.findingpeak.comFinding Peak podcast: https://linktr.ee/ryan_hanleyWorld-class insurance agency owner, Mike Crowley, joins the podcast to help us define the relationship between agents and carriers. Find more: https://ryanhanley.com--Recommended Tools for GrowthOpusClip: #1 AI video clipping and editing tool: https://link.ryanhanley.com/opusRiverside: HD Podcast & Video Software | Free Recording & Editing: https://link.ryanhanley.com/riversideWhisperFlow: Never waste time typing on your keyboard again: https://link.ryanhanley.com/whisperflowCaptionsApp: One app for all your social media video creation: https://link.ryanhanley.com/captionsappGoHighLevel: It's time to take your business workflow to the Next Level: https://link.ryanhanley.com/gohighlevelPerspective.co: The #1 funnel builder for lead generation: https://link.ryanhanley.com/perspective--Episodes You Might Enjoy:From $2 Million Loss to World-Class Entrepreneur: https://lnk.to/delkFrom One Man Shop to $200M in Revenue: https://lnk.to/tommymelloIs Psilocybin the Gateway to Self-Mastery? https://lnk.to/80upZ9This show is part of the Unplugged Studios Network — the infrastructure layer for serious creators. 👉 Learn more at https://unpluggedstudios.fm.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hello everyone and welcome back to the Ryan Hanley show. You won't know this because I've deleted them all, but this is like the seventh time I've tried to start the show and just kept like either burping or stumbling over my words. And when you podcast, this stuff just happens sometimes. All right, guys, so let's get into the show. It is, this is a tremendous episode. This is a insurance nerdy, deep dive conversation with one of my absolute favorite people in the industry. Mike Crowley, fellow upstate New Yorker, Syracuse guy. And what I love about talking to Mike is that there are many aspects of the insurance

business that I'm not going to say that we don't agree on, but just how he's building his agency is not how I will build rogue. Like we have different opinions or just different vantage points or are interested in building our agency's different ways. but the core of what we believe in insurance agency should be, the core of what we believe in insurance agencies should be, is exactly the same. And that's just why I love spending time with him.

I love talking to him about the business. He's very insightful, very thoughtful. He is a true pro in our space, and I love the opportunity to have him on the show. Okay, so before we get there, got to pay the bills, my friends, and we're going to do that, talking just a little bit about the inside. The inside documents my journey building rogue

risk. It is also a wide open, transparent, authentic, just collaborative effort, collaborative community of insurance pros talking about what it takes to be successful in this space. So we really use documenting my journey of building rogue risk as a construct, but it's not what we're talking about every day. And we have more than 25 members in the community now. It is a a paid community, so you do have to have some skin in the game to be part of it to kind of get this inside look at what's going on. But I feel like the name is almost a little misnomer. I feel like the name, and I've gotten this feedback like, oh, you know, these are the insiders and everyone else on the outside. It's not like that. When I came up with the name, the inside,

what I was really talking about is let's talk about the guts of an agency. Let's talk about the inside about what's actually going on. Like I wanted the, I wanted it to speak more to the material. We're getting our hands into the inside of an insurance business and the struggles and the wins and the losses and all the things that just don't make sense in the mornings that you wake up and you're stressed as hell because you have this thing doesn't plug into that thing and how the heck am I going to sell this customer and you know, oh my God, where'd all the money go? You know, all these different things that you have to deal with and as I'm experiencing them for the first time, you know, starting my very first scratch agency. So even though I've been in the space for 15 years, I'm experiencing a lot of these feelings for the very first time. And I'm kind of sharing that unique, you know, been in the space for a long time, but going through starting an agency for the first time. And it's a wonderful community.

And we do one-on-ones and we do all kinds of good stuff. And if you want to be part of that community, go to Ryanhandley.com forward slash insider. Ryanhandley.com forward slash insider. Or just go to my website, Ryanhanly.com, and you'll see a button for the inside. click that button. You get 14 days free. So there's no reason to not check it out. You can cancel it any time.

14 days free. Come in, check it out, watch the videos, be part of the conversations, join the Facebook group, you know, download some of the stuff that you have access to download. And, you know, that community helps make this podcast possible as well. So we have great sponsors. Sometimes we do sponsor episodes. Sometimes we talk about the inside.

And today we're talking about the inside. If you love this show, please subscribe. This promo has been way too long. I apologize for that. I'll cut these down in the future. I love you guys for watching this. Sorry for the long promo, but the inside is important to me,

and I think it's important to everyone that's in there. And I love you for listening to this. Let's get on to Mike Rale. Here we go. The good news is, you know, there are founders and leaders and agency owners in particular, and carrier people and technologists,

who are really tremendous people. And, you know, even if it's from afar to be able to apprentice for people like Jeff Roy and Chris Paradiso and, and Seth, who are probably the three that I watch, I try to watch what they do as closely as I can, the way they connect, the way they interact. You know, I think that, what the Internet has really given us is the ability to not, be so hamstrung by our geographic circumstances, right? I mean, one of those guys lives in outside of Toronto. One lives in Connecticut and the other lives in Ohio.

Yet I watch what they do. I listen to them. I connect with them. I text with them. And I learn from them every single day. And I think that's the beauty of where we're at in our industry today is that we get to learn from such a broader, swath of people. Do you know what one thing that those three people specifically do,

and they do it differently than most others, is they don't shove things down your throat in a way that, like, I need to hurry up and get that shiny object, or I need to do business a whole different way because that's what he's doing, where it's like, you don't know some of the if you don't really pay attention and really dive into their specific agencies or whatever, you don't see every little thing that they're doing, but you still want to. Like, it's like, there's still like that epitome up here where it's like, all right, I want to run the agency this way. I want to have the tech this way.

I want to have all these things. But then I'm not sitting there going, ooh, like they just signed up for this. I need to sign up for it. And it's like, it just makes that nice, I don't know, it's different. And then when you see all this other noise going on, it's kind of like, oh, man, you feel like you're behind because you're not doing it. doing this or have this and it's it's it's almost like it's just way too much fluff you know um so I completely I completely understand and and you know I don't know if you saw it or not but I wrote

a LinkedIn post the other day which was basically like I'm sorry to the industry for not fully appreciating the technology struggle you know like I've been talking about it for so long and watching and listening and um and then now that I I'm living it, you know, it's really difficult to not feel like if you don't have this tool or you don't have that tool that somehow you're not going to be able to provide this type of service. And then I had this agent on Facebook reach out to me who is going to remain anonymous because he actually uses an anonymous Facebook thing. Like he's whatever, just because he likes to, you know, he likes to talk about politics and stuff,

but he doesn't want to shove that down anyone's throat, you know, like that's, in his ecosystem or whatever. Doesn't matter. But he sent me an email and he's like, he's like, I love all these conversations about technology, but he's like, I,

he's like, you know how I get Google reviews? On Sunday nights, after I put the kids to bed, I open up my email and I copy and paste in emails to every account that I wrote that week about sending me a Google review.

He was like, that's my automation is I have a Google Doc and I go copy paste, copy paste, copy paste, and I do that for as many accounts as I wrote that week. And that's how I get Google reviews. He's like, so he's like, you know, so automations are cool,

but let's not pretend like they're in any, like they're necessary. And it's just an interesting vantage point, you know, because it's really hard, it's really hard to defend the opposite, you know, when we talk about it so much. Well, and it was one of your posts recently, and it was about data. And I didn't jump in on this. it was a couple days ago and literally the comments between cass

Nick and all sorts of other ones just I mean it it turned into a big and everyone was like agreeing but saying it differently and fighting in this and it's like wait guys like and what Nick said like I forgot what the phrase he used but it was like yeah but if people don't change their behavior it doesn't matter like what kind of information we have or what kind of this or whatever else. I couldn't, I was just so shocked to see it just explode into 50 comment thing. But it's so true is that like you can implement all these things. But if your clientele and you know this with your, with your wife's agency,

their clients, 75% of their clients might not adapt to having a mobile app or having a this or that. And like, so it's great that you can put these things in place, but that doesn't mean that like that agency or, or those customers are going to use this stuff. Dude, that post, so for those listening at home, that post is, that was newsletter number seven. And it was titled, Insurance has always been a data business. Now it matters. And essentially, the argument I was trying to make that I think was lost or got morphed

in the comments a little bit is what I was saying. It was actually, I was building off a conversation that Cass had had with Chris Burry. And Chris Burrand is brilliant in the way. And what basically what he was saying is, is that the ownership of expiry. And what's funny is like Matt Wood, who I adore too, was like, you know, the ownership of expirations is a contractual term based on between agents and carriers, which I 100% agree. Yep.

But the core idea of the ownership of expirations is that you know when someone renews, because that's the most important point at which. you can retain that business, right? At a high level, if we're backing it out, there are other reasons why the ownership of expirations is important and we don't have to get into all those nuances. But at like a 30,000 foot view, it's because for a very long time,

that was the trigger point at which you could resell that policy and sustain your business and actually grow your business. That's why it was important for the agent to own it and not the carrier because the carrier could then take that from you, market it, allow someone else to market it, and it defined where that data stopped, okay? Yep. Anyone who's super geeky on this,

feel free to hit me up or comment on or whatever. But like at a high level, that's what it was. And what Chris Buran was saying was that because of the access to life moment data that now exists in various different pools and lakes and streams and whatever else you want to reference to data, or water reference you want to use for collections of data, that companies can now go essentially,

in the analogy I was using was hop a dry moat. So, you know, we always want to build moats or lines of defense around our clients in terms of value. And some of that is, some of that is value to us. Some of that is value to them. But they're things that keep others from taking our clients from us or from our clients from leaving. And essentially what I was saying is the ownership of expirations is becoming a less effective method of defending your client base as your competitors are able to define life moments in your client's daily activities and market to them in moments of need outside of their expirations.

That's what I was trying to get to. And I think I probably talked, I think I went around it a little too much. And I said in there, there may be a time when the total pool of data that you have is of equal or more value than the actual revenue you generate. Okay. That is a bold statement. I'm aware of that. I was being slightly provocative in that I wanted to see where it went. But I do, but I think the point is our ability to,

mine and use data. And this was what I was really, our ability to utilize data is what's valuable, right? Not just I'm going to sell my data as a batch, you know, thing, but more, can you take your data and sell that second life insurance policy to the spouse because you know that they're about to have another kid or, you know, I mean, something like that. Like can you peel that information out? Can you add additional services through partnerships that keep that really build a trusted advisor relationship with your I mean whatever value structure you want to do but can you do that or is it just oh Sally's renewing in a month might want to remark at her you know what I mean like there's those are different things so that's what I was saying and that conversation just went

so squirrely it was pretty fun to watch though well in in the whole point about the expirations is there's a great i mean i look at i'm at least on the personalized sales side and that's over 50% of our business i don't care when somebody renews when as a new business prospect i never asked them because i'm not waiting till their renewal yeah like and i don't think most of the industry cares like the mindset of like oh you're going to renew in july okay and we're going to re-quote this in June and we're going to try and move your home and your auto and your umbrella over to our agency. No, if I have all their information, I'm writing it in the next week or actually probably eight to 12 days depending on the carrier because you get the best pricing

that way. But the thing is, it's like when you look at that, nobody, nobody's waiting to the renewal. Nobody even pays attention as much as they used to of, okay, my renewal came out. What's my renewal? What's my bill? No, they're looking at a month to month basis. They're seeing that EFT withdrawal. I mean, to the point where they're clueless of what's really going on when it comes to an annual policy period scope, they're looking, they're looking at their day. Okay, this just got withdrawn from our charge on my credit card. Why does that seem high? Oh, it was the same as it was last months and the six months prior to that. But because of whatever their circumstances are in life, they're, they're assuming it's high. They're assuming it because

their buddy or their neighbor just said, hey, I only pay 100, bucks a month. Why are you paying $125? Yeah. And so that's good. I mean, to me, that's like, and I was listening to that podcast with Cass. And you're sitting there and it's like, yeah, they used to go based off expirations, but I mean, expirations on personal lines in my eyes mean nothing. Yeah. I think one thing that's important for, you know, so we're having this conversation and just so you know, and the audience is going to hear me say this to you. Like, I've already introduced you so we don't

have to do that whole part. I don't even know where we're recording for a while. Yeah. I just, it's, I just, I just, I just start from the beginning because that's when a lot of times

we get really interesting nuggets that I hate to lose. And if you do like, all right, man, are you ready to start? Then you get kind of like buttoned up and it changes the whole mood. And I'd rather just like get right into it. So, um,

any, any trash talking at the beginning I normally lap off. But, um, unless it's about Cass or, or Nick Ayers and then I leave it in. So, you know, I think for someone like you, someone like myself, some of the, a lot of the people that we kind of talk to on a regular basis,

I think some, the idea that you just referenced is like a duh. Yeah, of course. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, of course. Like when someone comes in, I help them and we rewrite the policy, you know, two weeks out or whatever and bam, we're off to the races. I don't, I think some, I think it's easy to, I think it's easy to lose. to the fact that there's 36,000 independent agencies in the United States. And that number could be,

and that's like with a standard deviation of about 5,000 one way or the other, right? And not to mention all the captives, not to mention all the quasi captives, not to mention all the MGAs, not to, you know, and so I think that there's, I think that it's easy or I shouldn't say easy. I think that sometimes because of the level and the, and the frequency of conversations of the people that we tend to hang out with have. And I don't mean that as a knock to anyone who doesn't engage as much. I'm just saying, you know, I know the groups that you're in. I know the people that you go to conferences as much as you can. Like you're engaged. You're trying stuff. Like I think that that ups the bar for what is considered average in your mind. Right. Like your average,

like what's average in your mind? I think is much higher than what the average activity would be for most agencies that operate. We just don't ever hear from them. So we tend to not get that perspective as often. That is 100% true. And a good testament to that is probably what you're going through right now when you're meeting with carrier reps. I heard you talk on your podcast with Bradley Flowers the other day.

I listened to it, I don't know, yesterday or whenever it launched, I actually listened to it. And I, one of the first things you said was that carrier carriers are coming in and they're questioning like, am I in this? Am I in this 50%? Am I in this 100%? Like the fact that they're even questioning you shows that those carrier people don't pay attention.

They don't pay attention to what's going on in the industry. I mean, to me, they should have jumped at the chance that, okay, he wants an appointment with us, we're going to give it to him whether he's in it 70% or not. And it's because of what your mindset is, what your experience is, what you're doing and what your goals are going to be, it's only going to make things easier for the carriers. I mean, they come in and they meet with me, whether it's on a quarterly or an annual basis, and they leave, and they're just sitting there like, I haven't heard any of this stuff before. And I'm looking like, I'm so behind the curve because I'm comparing myself against the other people that we've been mentioning.

Yeah. And I put myself down at the bottom with them up top. But then when these carrier reps come in, they have no clue. And they're like, wow, you're doing this. And I'm like, and yeah, but I want to do this, this isn't this. And I'm not really happy with this, but they're, because they're comparing it against those 36,000 agents that don't have websites. They don't have email.

They don't, if they're, they have an email, it's at aOL. It's not even at their agency's name or whatever the case may be. So it's like it's tough to always keep yourself into that. I'm going to say the upper half or the upper 10th or that 3% that are actually trying to make the waves and changes for the future. And then when you get brought down, whether it's on a local level or state level and they sit there and they're like, huh, wow, like this is what you're doing. So when I heard that yesterday and I'm thinking, are you kidding me? like and being another new yorker i wanted to be like who are these carrier reps questioning this let me call them and yell at them like because i might because i might know them somehow through the

channel so yeah it was it was crazy to to hear that but i can like i mean yeah sure i can see why they're doing it but that shouldn't stop them from wanting to give you an appointment yeah anybody can get appointments through mga's or groups or whatever else is so it's like why are you going to limit what you can potentially get when he launches that and puts his foot on the gas and starts writing business to, okay, well, yeah, I missed out the first six months. Well, guess what? He's got a nice rhythm going. And now he might not throw you into the mix or you're going to be that last choice and you're done. Yeah. So I want to be, so I want to be fair. Uh, and say that so I've had two, two, two, I have like a,

I have like a three week span here where I have basically six or seven appointment meeting. And I've had two since since that episode of Bradley dropped or since I had since I recorded the episode of Bradley I've had two of the meetings so far. And and here's what I would say to be fair to at least those two carriers was the focus was a concern going in. I will say that both were very receptive to the business plan that I have, which is essentially my business plan in a nutshell, well, I have a, there's a lot, there's different, different moving parts. An enormous piece of my business plan is the carrier service center. I am going to leverage carrier service centers.

It's part of my business plan. I will take on other agents and VAs before a in-house service rep and push business to service centers, which means I want to keep a small pool of carrier, of appointed carriers, and just use, you only use wholesaler, which will be Indian. Sasa Remba is, is part of that. And Chad Eddie runs it. Great, great people. You know, that will be, that will be my wholesale option.

But, you know, I will say that when I, when I walk through the business plan with them, and they, and this is just an interesting thing about agents too. So when I told them, like, an enormous part of my business plan is the quality of your service center. And regardless of what you call it, they all call it something a little different. I need to know that I can, that it has some integration capabilities that you're going to be able to cross sell, upsell, you know, that you're going to be able to handle the business. You know, like I need, I want to work with the best in class. And that, I can tell that is a hot button item because that immediately changed the conversation. And for the positive.

And I don't mean that in a negative way at all. like that immediately changed the conversation because they're like wow no like I we struggle so hard like we put so much time and effort into our service center and it has such great numbers and we can't get agents to use it or at least not as many as we would like and I think the idea that I was going to build an agency around like built into my business model is carrier service centers um was it was a game changer for me and uh and I and I didn't get it. any knows yet. I have one basically maybe or basically yes. You know, I got to go through the process still. And then I have one. We're not saying no, which I thought was a win for that particular carrier,

for them not to say, you know, come back and talk to us in two years. I thought was a big victory as well. So I'm, I feel like I'm in a good spot. But it was interesting to see like they were worried about focus, but then, you know, when I can kind of say, look, like, yeah, I get that. Here's how I'm address that part of it. Yeah. And but then here's where I want to go. And when it started to align with what I think carriers see the future is, which is leveraging those service centers more, it took down a lot of the obstacles between us. And we started having what I thought were very productive conversations. Well, and that's the benefit and the reason that you're, the carriers that you met with are not seeing the adaption from the independent agent is because you're

reversing it. You're building it based off of that versus, hey, I'm going to switch my X book into a carrier service center. The problem is I can't switch in my, my A, B, and C book, because they don't have one. What they have isn't worth it. And then all of a sudden, it's like I'm 25% in and 75% out. That confuses so much stuff. So it's either all or nothing. and it's too hard for any agency, let alone established agencies for a long time to say, okay, well, hold on, we're going to just, we're going to just move everything into carriers that have service centers

and then cut the ties and do that. It's almost impossible to do that. Do you use any? Do you use any carrier service? No. None. And I've told carriers, because they come and they push, and they push hard.

I said, listen, you've got to stop pushing. I will be the last agent on earth using carriers. barrier service on me. And just break, walk me through besides what you said, are there other reasons? That's the main reason. Yeah. Is because I see it as a hindrance to the flow that we have. Yeah. Because I don't want somebody on my staff to have to be like, okay, well, yeah, you need to call this 800 number for change on your auto policy, not, but we'll handle your home because it's still in one of these mutual companies that like we still handle the service for. That. That. That mindset is a, if I bring myself into a customer's mind, that is a terrible customer experience.

Like, if they don't know exactly where to go, like, I don't like, when the carriers came in and said, we want you guys to stop calling and sending in claims. We want to hear from the client. And we said, no, like, we're still calling in claims. Like, because we want every claim, unless the person can't wait because it's midnight and the person can call an 800 number, I want our staff calling in claims. because I want to talk to them first because I want to stop the claim from happening when it's something that is just ridiculous and not going to be covered. Yeah. Because it's under their deductible.

So like that is one of our value-added processes for our agency. And that's why I'm like, the way this industry moves, the way these carriers are, the way where my carriers and where my business is kind of separated through, none of them are all, they're never all going to have that solution that's going to satisfy us. So I'm not going to even entertain the possibility that, hey, this one book with a million dollars can get service there and that's going to free up so much to time. I'd rather pay for more service people. I'd rather do that. Yeah. And instill those processes that makes us better than the service center.

Yeah. Like so there's that's where, but again, that's taking the stuff I'm learning and implementing it and making the experience better because that's the whole focus where 35,100 of those agents in the world aren't doing that yet. And so we're still in this long-term game that is like, we need to make these changes because of all this stuff around us, but nobody else besides the few hundred or maybe a few thousand are actually looking at doing it. But then again, how many of those 36,000 independent agents are going to be retiring in five years and selling out to somebody else? Yeah. And somebody mentioned there's going to be a lot less agents in the future servicing this stuff because, of all these different tech stuff coming in,

I don't even think it has the tech stuff. I literally think there's going to be that much less agents because everybody's going to retire. Yeah. And everyone's going to consolidate. And now my local town that had five within a mile is going to have one. And then the local town, I mean, so you're going to have, you're going to have maybe a couple small ones.

You're going to have a couple medium ones and you're going to have a whole bunch of large ones. And the only small and medium ones that are going to last are the ones that have those relationships and have the customer experience that they still want to come in and talk to that same agent and then work as their advisor and do all that kind of stuff. So that's really where I see that and that's where I kind of am shifting our focus is to make sure we're there. And that's why it's like, all right, service centers are never going to get to that point in the state of New York with the carriers that we have.

Some of the small ones. You got a lot of domestics and stuff. Yeah. I mean, you know the carriers, the New York Central Mutuals of the world. the Adirondex, the dry to mutuals, the nice small carriers that you love doing business with because they write a good product, they take care of claims, they do all these things. We have nice books with them that are always profitable. These carriers aren't going to switch their focus and try and create service centers to offset

these things. They're not big enough. And nor is all the agents going to use them. So we're not going to, if half or a quarter of our book is in these handful of five carriers that are never going to do that. We're never going to, we're never going to sway that. And we're going to still be that local hometown agency that you can walk in and hate to say, still pay cash and pay for your premium. Because I'm not going to tell the lady that's been here for 55 years, hey, I know you've been paying annually every year with cash for your home and auto

and you come in and your $100 bills are starting to fade. But we're not going to do that anymore. You can't come in anymore. Like, that's not the experience we want to give her or the experience if we want to give any new customer, if that's what is convenient for them. We're not going to force them to do it, but obviously, yeah, we're still going to be here to allow it.

I think that, and I mean this in the most positive sense, I think that is a very noble way to go about handling this, what's going on. And I mean that in the most positive sense, not in a patronizing way. I think that, I think there's only a couple ways that you can go, man.

You know, what I'm, I think what's going to happen is I think peak independent agency influence. I think independent agency influence in the marketplace is on the rise. I'm bullish on independent agency influence. I am bearish on independent agencies in terms of their scale. I think the number of agencies is going to go down. I think you're going to see consolidation.

and I think what's going to happen is everyone, it's going to be, you're going to get a barbell effect. You're going to get agencies like what I'm trying to build, which is going to be more, more sales focus, a smaller force, you know, very sales heavy. Like, you know what I mean? Like I want to keep, I want, you know, a service person to be towards the end, a true service person to be towards the end of my hires, not, you know, the first couple of hires, I want to be other individuals

who are going to be out producing business and kind of lean, mean fighting machine, I guess you could say, if I were to put it that way. I think that you're then also going to have a lot of big, consolidated, you know, agencies owned by either PEs or just, you know, agencies that have scooped up all over the place.

I think what's going to be really difficult is that middle, size agency to exist. Now, I think in towns like where you are, I think there are pockets where they'll survive. I think in New England, they'll be able, they'll do better in New England because there's so many, there's so many highly populated pocket towns where you can do tremendous work for a community, make a great living, employ people and be perfectly fine. I think as you spread out west and the towns become farther away from each other, sparser, I think it becomes much more difficult to have that middle-sized agency where you have all

the payroll, but you're also competing as some of the big guys pushed down into the smaller markets and the little guys are able to extend up a little bit. I think the middle-sized agencies are the ones that are really, they're going to have to do the most work to survive. I don't know, if I'm spitball or kind of prognosticating, that's what I'm seeing. And while, I made the decisions that I made and how I'm constructing Robe. Well, and that's, that's absolutely the way it's going to be. And, and I see that middle, that middle agent. If you're not already making changes, it's either going to hurt the future of your

specific agency or I think it hurts the value of the sale of your agency. Yeah. And I look at that as somebody that will go buy up those small people that will still take those longtime clients that that person had that still wants a local person. But what I'm willing to pay and what I want to pay in my local community for these things is going to be tie really close to what you've done the last five years. Is your book slowly going like this upward? Is it staying even or is it slowly dying?

And there's a lot of those agencies that I think are just slowly dying and barely hanging on here because I see and I hear them and I network with them and it's like you guys at 65, 70, 73 years old, whatever the case may be, you're just riding this out and you look and feel, it looks like you're miserable. Like because you have to grind to make ends meet to reach what you did last year because expenses just go up where it's like try and do something. If you're not going to bring somebody in to try and like help grow the agency that way, get out of it now. like take top dollar if you can and hang out for a little while and then just and then just retire and so there's too many that still have a nice comfortable life that they don't think

that they need to do anything like okay yeah I made this amount last year and I'm going to make uh 4% less this year and then 4% 5% the next year and just slowly grow but it's still very comfortable to them and so they're like well I'm not ready to just sit home and there's so many of those still here that either the large big ones, the multiple 100 employee agencies that have their hand all over the place are going to buy them up and those clients are just going to get thrown in. Or you're actually going to like you're going to have people like myself or any other middle ground ones that are starting to establish a culture and an experience for clients that literally they are people are going to want to come there. And that's, but there's so much.

I mean, there's a reason captives are going independent. Like, that train is not going to stop. Like, nationwide started it. Other ones are going to follow suit. I mean, Allstate just sent out that letter that's very ominous, right? I mean, 2021, who the hell knows what's going to happen? I had a question that somebody called and they're like, you want to talk to Allstate?

And I'm thinking, you know, I get enough emails or LinkedIn messages or whatever from carrier people all the time. Hey, you want to have a meeting to talk about adding another carrier. Listen, I don't need any more carriers. Like, if one carrier starts to slack in the state of New York and I need to make some changes and I have a way to look in, like, I will definitely look. Or if you're starting to kick butt and you've been kicking butt for a few years and you're still on that train, okay, maybe I got to look at you because, hey, listen, I'm not like, I'm not going to miss out the opportunity to grow a book. We added one a few months ago and I'd say, say 50% of our new business has been going to them because they have the product,

they have the pricing, they have all the backhand service stuff that is excellent. I did a bunch of research before adding them. And I said, you know what? I'm losing, not losing business to it, but I'm losing prospects because of what you have. And I don't want that. I have the prospect. And like I've said, and I'll continue to say, the customer isn't a customer of the carriers. Yeah.

This is a huge, I will shout this. rooftop. If I say, if I have another product, and I tell somebody to jump, we're moving here, they're going to jump. And to me, that means we own the customer. And so I want to make sure that I have the right products so that my customers will keep listening to me and we can move them to what we need to move them based on what their needs are in their life on. So it's going to be interesting. But I think that the train of this is going to take a little bit longer than some of the people that we communicate with on a regular basis is thinking. People are like, oh, man, look, it's going to be, it's already started, and it's going to be

next year, and it's going to be in the next, no, there's going to be still so many agents that aren't doing anything five to seven years from now. The only way is if there becomes a bigger shift in the gap between us and carriers. Yeah. If us and carriers don't figure a way to improve the partnership and it keeps dividing in certain ways, that's when we start to see some things change. Yeah. Can I ask you, I'd love to know what the carrier is that you took on, but you don't have

to share that information unless you want to. I'm interested in your research process for choosing them beyond just seeing them in the market or whatever it is. Just when you're considering that new carrier that you just took on a couple months ago, like, what is that research process for you? Where are you going? What are you looking at? Like, how are you formulating?

okay, we're ready to take on another carrier. Claims. Claims is 100% the only thing that I care about when it comes to the carrier. Obviously, pricing stability makes a nice difference. The problem is over half my carriers don't have pricing stability. We're great for two years. We have a 12% increase. I mean, it's this roller coaster of pricing that you can't control. You can't say, I'm only going to keep these four carriers because their pricing stability is good and it's going to keep my overhead down because I'm not going to have to remark it and do any of this stuff. So for me is, okay, once I give you a customer of mine, what problems am I going to have that you cause? And my number, the number one, the number two and

the number three in my eyes are claims. If I file a claim for my client that has the coverage, are you fast? Are you reasonable? I mean, like, I'm not expecting lemonade-type claims, but I'm expecting, do I have to get involved and start, like, following up on your adjusters to make them make a phone call? And I have, and I've tweeted this before, and I tag them all the time, every claims person needs the John Bachman attitude of claims. And there's, I told him before. I'm like, you need to go train claims people all across the country because people are not doing a good enough job training them to the point where the experience that the client is going through, they need to massage that. Half of that job is bedside manner. Like, you need to make sure that the person feels

comfortable. They're walking them through, letting them know this is the process, this is the step. They can't ghost them. They can't just like not return their phone call because then we get the phone call. And then we have to get involved. And then, oh, wait, I got to stop everything I'm doing to take care of this, because this is a big client of mine, and I want to make sure their claim gets handled appropriately. So if the least amount of work that I have to do after a claim is filed, like, I want to follow up with a customer and be like, hey, I just want to make sure everything's going smooth and them to say, everything's great. We got our check yesterday. Okay. Awesome. Like, I don't want to have to get so much involved. So if I talk to other agents and I was finding other things,

I'm like, all right, how is the claim service? Oh, claim service is great. Okay, great. okay, next, next agent. And I think there's where me being so involved in some of the local insurance agency association type stuff has allowed the relationships with other agency owners that I can say, how long have you had this company? Bad experience, good experience, and so I can get their true opinion, off the record opinions about a certain carrier before I jump on. And it worked in this one. And I mean, I mean, I probably had about three more since we added that one to reach out. And they're like, hey, we're looking to add you or we're looking to do this.

And again, it's because if their territory is central New York area and they're looking at me like, who are we going to add? My job this year is to add five new agents and get them to grow. Where are you going to add that you don't already have? I mean, the state of New York probably jumped when they said, oh, my God, there's another person that wants to start an agency. like people aren't starting agencies in in in new york and it's like there's where it's like these guys are stuck trying to figure out how they're going to get more business because that's their job on the

line and so they're they're reaching out to the people that are actually trying to do something and growing versus because they're like are we're already in the big shops because the big shops have everybody and when you look at the small shops well these ones are not growing or not doing anything and then there's maybe three in the middle so it's like there's not many things that that can separate. I mean, there's so many things that are separating yourself from this that the carriers are like, they're like they're throwing themselves at you. Like when they, when they, when they, when they called, I've said, listen, like, you know that, hey, you need 500,000 in three years or you need this, you need this. All these old school guidelines of like, we need volume or we need that. I'm thinking,

I don't, I don't do that. Like, I don't go buy any of those. Like, you'll get opportunities. It's up to you to have the product that allows you. We're growing X number of percent a year. you can see that that's why you're here but if your product stinks in Syracuse, New York, it might be great 15 miles this way or 20 miles that way, but like we're the bulk of our businesses. If you're not competitive, you're not going to get any product. And so for you to expect us to say, okay, yeah, we're going to we want, we'll get you 500 in three years. Well, no, that's not going to happen. And so they, they might have and hob, but they're like, just quote us. That's all we care about. We just, we just got to show that you're giving.

us the opportunities. Yeah, I got one of the carriers that I talked to, they were very interested in adding me on commercial lines, which is awesome because they were a high target. They were one of the carriers that I was, that was high on my target list. So that was very fun. But then when the conversation switched to personal lines, they're like, wow, you know, we're 500,000 in three years. I'm just like, really? Like, what if I give you 325? What if I do 250? And it's all good, profitable business like is that a bad thing i don't know like and and that's where you get that old mindset like and that's it's like the mindset i talked about of like oh should we add ryan as a as a person or as an agency here because you know is he doing this full time or is he still consulting

on the set like are you kidding me if you're going to write 250 000 in good business that's good for the carrier and that's only going to grow like why wouldn't you take that on i'm sorry, besides some paperwork and maybe a few other little things, there's no expense to add an agent at all. And if you can't, and I understand you don't want to be on every street corner and there's all these other things, but it's like, that means you should pick the people. You should pick the people that are doing the things that's going to help your company grow. But like, I mean, I've had a few conversations with the commercial rating platform that you're signing out for. Yeah, Tarmaca.

awesome guys and the fact that every carrier isn't throwing themselves at them to get on that just shows you again like their mindset and where things are yeah like I even ask them okay where's the big expense on this they're like well it just depends on their technology but we can help them and they're going to we'll give it back to them and I'm thinking like why wouldn't any carrier do this like to me it should be one phone call and every single person should just jump on it but they don't yeah they don't care Dude, from my trusted choice.com days and bold penguin days, I can just tell you that it is, it's a,

that decision doesn't happen because of a thousand like, you never hear like a death by a thousand cuts or whatever. It's death by a thousand decisions. Like that's why that doesn't happen. It's not that intrinsically any one person isn't like we should be there. Yeah. It's or, you know, or, you know, pick the tool. You know, pick the tool.

It's that, and some of it just comes down to straight, no, I'm not going to get my bonus this year because I've killed myself to integrate with that tool. So, you know, whatever. Because even though you look at it and you're like, like, take travelers, right? Like, travelers isn't yet on Tarmaca. Now, hopefully they will be soon. And if there's someone listening to this who works for travelers, please email whoever possible and say, this is a tool you need to be on. Because I can tell you firsthand, excluding myself, some of the best agents in the entire country are either going to be signing up with Tarnica or are circling around Tarmica right now as a potential

resource for them. It is worth your time and effort. Now, for you and I to sit here, we're like, why isn't travelers on this platform yet? Like, this is silly. Like, just take your technology, plug it in, go. But you're not dealing with travelers. You're dealing with John and Harry and Tammy and Sally who have to all make sure that this doesn't get them fired, right? Because adding a new tool doesn't get anyone to raise. All it does is create risk in their life to get them fired. Now, when you deal with some of the, this is why I've always really, and it's something against travelers, there's great people that work there.

It's just very legitimately. And you and I, if we work there, would operate the exact same way. does putting your neck out on the line to integrate with a tool that could, yes, help your agents for sure, how much risk am I creating in my career by doing that? Because you are expending social and political capital internally in order to say, hey, I think we should be on that tool. So, and that's, that's like, that's human survival instinct, right? In a company that big.

And it's one of the reasons I've always really enjoyed operating with the super regional carriers. because even though in some cases, yeah, they're still behind, still slow, but it's Sean or it's Kevin or it's Steve. And if you can get that person or it's Sally or whoever, you know, Cindy, if you can get that person to believe in what you're doing, they can execute on it and make it happen. And though sometimes that's a harder sell. At the same time, you know, they know that making that decision isn't,

They're usually operating in what they believe is best for agents versus their ability to allocate resources, which is a much different equation than if I say yes to this project, will I get fired? Those are two, you know, both have challenges when trying to get someone to make an integration. But I feel like they're just very, they're also very different. So that has been the challenge for me, man. And I started this by saying, I wrote this post about saying apologizing. And I do. I apologize. I apologize profusely.

I am I am epically sorry for not fully empathizing with the stress and strain that comes with choosing the right technology. But I love the way that you approach the game, man. It's not, I'll be honest with you. Some of the things you're saying, I don't 100%, I wouldn't build my business that way and won't build my business that way. but I don't think that you're wrong. And I think that and when I said,

I think it's noble, I mean it in the truest and most positive sense. I love that you are going that way. Because I do believe it is one of the paths to success. I think there are many, many, many paths. I absolutely positively believe that you are on the right path because you also, and we didn't really touch about this very much so far, and it's kind of where I'd like to go,

you do so much, like as much as you're taking cash from the 87-year-old woman who's been there for 50 years, years, you're also crushing the content game. You're working on automations. You're having conversations with different tools to help you automate your business. So what I'd love to know is, is how does an agency like yours who is on a path that you just described, which is much more high touch, much more in-house, which is amazing. How do you marry that philosophy with all the new tools? Like when you're looking at them, how are you evaluating them? How are you thinking about integrating them while maintaining the virtues that make your business special?

Slowly. It's, there's, there's, this is the nerd, insurance nerd of me that like, okay, I see these things. I see what's, like, what's very valuable. I see how it's going to intertwine into whether it's the sales process or the service process within our agency. not necessarily what I think the what the industry is definitely going to do like I mean I think it's awesome that some people are able to automate their agencies like almost to nothing or any of that kind of stuff there's I mean there is and I've had this conversation and I got no problem

telling the company's name rocket referrals okay rocket referrals is a great software program okay I signed up for it years ago and but after about you know 18 months two years I stopped it Why? Because the garbage that we had in our management system at the time basically produced garbage, as Cass says, garbage in, garbage out. Yeah. And so I got off of the software. And when I talked to them again and I say, okay, this is the reason I did this and the reason I left and all this other stuff has nothing to do with their program. It has to go with ours. So I couldn't set their program, which is meant to be fully audited.

that you basically set it and forget it and all of a sudden you start getting different things in. I couldn't set it up on automation. I had to manually go in every single day to see what happened was going on and personally send out, okay, we're going to send these out, we're going to send this out, we're going to send that out. And after a while, I just got tired of it and didn't do it. Did it work? Sure. But that was just one thing that it's like, so when you're doing these things, it's like, as much as like all these systems and things look awesome and everybody's watching it and It's almost like that shiny object. You really got to bring it back to saying, okay, how is this going to affect your clients? How is it going to affect your sales process? Or how is it going to affect this? And if it's not going to make your life easier, your staff's life easier, your client's life easier, it's not worth it right now.

And let's put that in the list of maybe next year or maybe two years around. So where for me, a lot of the stuff that I tried to implement and put in was really, really initially to help my process, okay? I still handle 90% of our sales. So being still the new business sales, like I focus a lot of stuff on some of the marketing aspects to make sure that, okay, this is going to help me now and it's also gonna help me down the road.

It's gonna help build a personal brand along with an agency brand. It's gonna allow me to do all these different things. That's gonna help grow the agency without potential, potentially knocking on doors or cold call. And as that started to work and some things started to happen there, then it's like, all right, what tools can I implement in my staff's day to day?

That's going to help offset some things and clean up some things and make things easier. And it's like the guy you mentioned earlier, how am I going to get Google reviews without having something like rocket referrals or something set up on automation? Okay, well, once you build in your own. So I built in five different layers of where we asked for Google reviews. Some of it's automated, some of it's manual. But everybody knows and everyone's on those systems. But it's taken a while, obviously, because you test it and see what's working.

If it's not working, you stop it and fix it and relaunch it. And it's worked out really well. It's just in my eyes and somebody that is a constant studier of the industry and the studyer of others in the industry, especially the ones that I respect really how. highly, I always feel I'm 10 steps behind. So it motivates me to try and catch up. So at least that way, I can always be testing and thinking about new things, but I'm not driving my staff crazy. I'm not tearing down all our processes and having to rebuild them and tear them down again and rebuild them up again. Like the goal is to do that once, maybe do some tweaks, and then we're

done. And we just had this conversation in our agency over the last few weeks at the end of the year, it was basically like, we're doing this project that we're doing so we never have to do it again. Like, this isn't it like, hey, we're going to do this every year and between Christmas and New Year's when it's a little slow. I don't know. We're doing some of this stuff now because we're never going to have to do it again because the process now prevents us from having to do this again. But it's just one little aspect of one little layer. And it's like we just keep making those steps and moving them forward. But you got to go somewhere. You got to do something. You can't just keep jotting these stuff down and hope that you're going to eventually get there. You got to pick a

And a perfect example is, and it's, it's great that you're going to be at the conference the next week and, and all that kind of stuff. And seeing some of the questions you probably see within that Facebook community group. But one of the questions and one of the topics all the time is like, when you go to a conference, what are you looking to get? Like, you can't sit there and drink from a fire hose and go back to your agency and let something. Nothing's going to get done. Yeah. Like you really have to go and say, okay, I'm thinking of two or three things that I want to take out of here. and I'm going to go implement them before the end of February.

And when that works, hey, then maybe I'll touch base and reach out to a couple of the speakers or people that maybe are doing some other things, but that's not on my list. I remember the first conference I ever went to about three, four years ago. I came back with all sorts of ideas, and I was jacked up and ready to roll. Nothing got done.

Nothing. For 10 months, I'd have 15 different projects started, nothing got finished, nothing moved forward. forward and finally I just sit there and I was like, wow, like that's not good. So the next conference I go to, I'm going to start over and this is what I'm going to look to do. And I'm going to learn how to do this where I'm going to figure out this person that I can always reach out to as a contact that's a specialty in their area or whatever. And that's kind of been my mindset. And it's worked so far and we keep making those steps forward so that at someday, whether it's three years from now or five years from now, I feel a lot.

more comfortable where where our tech is and where our marketing is and where our processes are that maybe you look back and you're like wow okay that was that was good but i didn't do a full overhaul within 18 months and um it's it's it's been a fun ride and a fun process and i look forward to learning new things the problem is everything you learn and change three years from now it's going to change again and and that's you always got to stay on your toes but i like to be on my There's too many people in this industry that just sat back and got comfortable and just coasted. And I don't want that. Like I want to be able to always have my foot on the gas pedal driving forward just because it's going to motivate me to keep going.

And hopefully someday, maybe my kids would want to come into the business. Like turn that third generation into a fourth generation. It lets you own your future too. You know what I mean? That's the part for me, you know, man, I've lived the opposite life, right? like I've worked for other people and, you know, I've had some tremendous experiences and all that. But, you know, when you're when you're driving forward, you own your destiny. And sometimes, you know, people are able to knock you down, but you get back up.

When you start to relax and you start to take it easy, you know, now you're kind of, it's much easier to push you around. And I don't mean like literally push you around. I mean like, you know, just have life, knock you down and throw things at you that you can't navigate. I want to be respectful of your time I'm going to run wrap it up but I want to share this with you as well so you know Dave Iodanzo right from Diodin Mutual.

Yes. Yeah. So, you know, I talk to him every once in a while and he reached out to me and was just talking to me about the domestic market and stuff and you know, pitching me on Dried in a little bit because he's a good salesman and all that. And I say that like in Jess.

He's a super good guy. And mostly we were just talking about business. and I said to him, and I'm taking this back to what you were saying about chasing tools and chasing things. And I have this like martyr syndrome where the decisions that I make, I feel like I'm making a decision for the industry, like along with the decisions that I make because I know I'm going to talk about the things that I choose or the tools that I use or whatever. And I've like had this pressure building inside me the last few weeks where it's like, you know, of course I choose to like, document my journey because I'm a freaking a hole and uh and I just can't help myself right so so some of it is self-imposed I that's fair because of this is super like this uh but you know I've had this pressure because there are certain tools that I would love to consider that I know like in our

crew of peeps would be considered like oh why would you even think about them right like oh you know they're part of the evil empire why would you join that or why would you be part of that because they're this. And I'm like, and I was talking to Dave, and I think because Dave doesn't, you know, Dave is a, you know, he, you know, he, he don't care. So I just was sharing this frustration with him. And he's like, he looks, he goes, he's got this in,

and I don't know how often you've spoken to him, but he's got this way where he like, even though we were talking on the phone, and I felt like he like swiveled in his chair and made eye contact with me and was like, son, he called me young man. He goes, he was young man. it's time you start making decisions for yourself. And I just was like, what? It was like I had a bugget of cold water dumped over my head. And the reason I share that is because through this process of starting to map out,

you know, first the vision for the agency, then the actual business plan slash battle plan for launching and then getting into the actual nuts and bolts of how I implement that. It is so incredibly easy to want to chase the new, hot, fresh, just off the presses tool that, you know, if it hits is the big thing and you were on the wave, you know, at the very beginning. And it's very, very difficult to not get sucked into that mentality. when there are tried and true established tools, products that aren't as sexy. Like no one's writing insure tech exposés on them, but they get the job done. And I've had to like, it's like weird to say this out loud, but I've had to do like soul

searching around that idea of like, like, how do I not convince myself that how do I make sure that I'm making a decision for the right. reasons, right? Which the right reasons are establishing an agency that takes care of my family for the next decade and a half, which is why I started this agency in the first place. Like that's why I started it. And that's like a thing. It's like something I've had to deal with. It's been weird. Well, because, well, and Dry and Mutual is a company that is that. They're not the sexy new tool that is there. But they are so consistent. They are so good at their niche products. And we grew 25% with them last year. And we've had them for years. And it's just because

they're that good that it's like you get the thing that crosses your desk. Like you're not going to load it into tarmaca there and say, okay, where is this going to go? No, no, no. You call and just either go to their online raider or you know the rates off the top of your head and you're like, now, this is going to Dryden. Like that is who they are. And that's like that is great for the agency yeah like and and it's it's tough because i can see how you would have the mindset of being like all right this is what i'm this is where i'm building this is where i'm going but man that is just so consistent over there yeah yeah and you know and the truth is like you know i look at what dryden does and i used to write dryden products when i worked at the murray

group and i know exactly who they are and and i just think to myself like is it make headline presses for anybody if I take an appointment with Dryden? No, no one can give two flying shits. Is it going to help my business? Most don't even know what they are. Yeah, most, yeah. It's a single state domestic in New York that mostly writes an upstate, right? So like, but at the same time, having worked with them before and knowing exactly who they are and what they do, I feel like I would be an A-hole if I didn't have them as part of my product mix, considering the niches that they have are, I don't want to say easy to market to, but you can create targeted market at those things, drive them in, provide good service.

There's plenty of opportunity to cross sell those people into other products. You know, I mean, it's like, and I just think to myself like, you know, and I'm talking through personal experience, but I know other people struggle with these things. Like, I think it's so easy to want to do that, that thing that feels like, like what you should be doing when really all all we should ever be thinking about. I think it's good to think about the industry as a whole, consider it and support the projects that help the industry grow. But at the end of the day, like we got to do what's best for the business that puts food on our table. Like we have to do that. And I'm as much, I mean, you know that better than I do,

probably. I'm as much speaking to myself as I am to anybody. But that's been a lesson. A great example of this is I tried to partner with, um, the state association to, because it's so much easier, at least you think it is, that to have associations be the voice of the agent to the carriers. And it goes back to that comment you had, well, we're not hearing this from our agents. Yeah. Like, well, that's because the agents aren't going to be able to call you, Steve or Tammy and Sue in this department at this one carrier, especially on a national level,

that says the agents in upstate New York have an issue with this. And one of the projects I was working on was basically like, you guys need to improve your online picture. Okay. All right. Some of these carriers that we represent that we love as carriers, when you go to the general public, they have no clue who they are. And they're like, oh, wait, this isn't Geico and State Farm and Allstate. Like, I've got to go search them. And when they go search them, you find every negative thing possible because that's what you find.

every carrier online. And I basically said, like, the fact that I have to present your product and then when the customer actually looks at things and then I have to defend your product and potentially like, like you need to like take that focus of whatever, all these projects that you're on and say, you know what? For the next three months, we're going to put a little focus and we're going to do with that guy that emailed you and says on Sunday night, we're going to ask all the people that had claims how well the claim process went or or whatever the case is to build up our online presence they can't even do that this was like 18 months ago that I started to try and push this product and like when the association goes and talks they hear the same thing oh well our agents aren't

complaining about this well it's because one they're too afraid to say anything to you because they think it's like you guys are the big bad people that control their destiny and for me it's like, all right, no, no, no, like your online presence sucks and mine is great. And I'm not going to let you ruin mine and me to potentially get and grow my book of business because I want to, I want to present your product to them. So like either, either improve or I'm not going to present your product anymore. Yeah. And it's going back to like, all right, is the claim experience good for me? So it's less work for me. Well, how's the new business process? Well, the new business process sucks because when they go and search your carrier nobody's ever heard of they have issues

and some people have never heard of travelers some people have never heard of uh other insurance carriers that we represent because they don't pay attention to insurance carriers if you don't spend billions on advertising they don't know who you are yeah so if you're using us to advertise your product you at least need to improve what your online presence looks like yeah you know uh that was the case so one of my favorite carriers that i've used an example forever is New York Central Mutual, right? I love them. Great carrier. So steady. At least, I don't know, maybe very, very recently, but I'd say for, I'd say consistency is a, is a hallmark of theirs. They do a good job on claims, well-run company. When you push a proposal for New York Central

Mutual with that old-ass look and train logo across the table to someone, they're like, what kind of podunk country insurance bullshit are you trying to sell me? And in your mind, you're like, holy, like these guys qualified for New York Central's preferred program, like they don't realize they just hit the freaking jackpot. Like they're never going to have to switch their insurance again for like a decade. Like they're good. And that's your mind. And the client's mind is like, this paper ain't worth to wipe my ass with it.

I mean, they have no idea. And it's like that. That second sale, you know, in New York is a, in New York Central America is a tough, it's a tough example because, one, they have been in the state for so long that anyone, Westchester, North, there's a good chance that they've bumped into them at some point, or at least a lot of, you know, people who have been established and maybe people in their 40s or 50s. But, and the other part is they're a single state domestic, so they're, they're a domestic carrier. So they're only in New York. And they don't have the marketing

budget to run the campaigns. But to your point, the idea that they would, and they have done some branding, and I think it's a good thing. But if they just got out ahead of that sale a little bit or gave you a little bit more in terms of a frontline branding, when you push that across the table, New Yorkers could go, whoa, I qualify for New York Central Mutual. I've seen them. Wow, this is pretty cool. Like, thanks, man. Like, I'm excited for this. Like, that to me is, it's a ways off.

but if that mentality could be just grabbed down to a little bit more. And for everyone working in New York Central Mutual, I love you guys. Like, don't give me wrong. I'm using you as an example out of love. But, you know, that's where I think to myself, like, there's so much opportunity there. There's so much opportunity if the agent doesn't have to do the second sale to write more business because it tears down a whole obstacle,

a whole additional obstacle for the agent. that that's writing that business. And they're definitely making strides. Yeah. And I echo everything you said about them. Like, I mean, that's where I have all my insurance, personal insurance. Yeah. Like, I mean, it's, it's, and, and, but the thing is, and there's something that I don't even

know if you know this. They are the seventh largest auto insurance writer in the state of New York. I did. I knew they were high. I didn't know seven. Yeah. Yeah. And if you look at the six, there are six that you would think that would be, huh, Geico or

steak farm. Like, I mean, this isn't like, Like they're probably the second when it comes to independent size behind travelers. And so you look at that and it's like, wow. Like they write and they're bigger than you think. And it's like, and they are doing a good job starting to brand. And there's TV commercials, there's radio ads. The problem is, again, and they're doing some social media pushing, which is, which is great.

I mean, they got the JD Power Award like two years in a row for customer satisfaction. Who knows what that really is. But whatever, they're still pushing all those things. problem is, okay, what is the 28-year-old buying this first house doing after you present, hey, here's your new auto and home for your new house. Here's all your coverages. You're sitting there thinking this is a great preferred product. You're good when you buy this new house.

You got all the bells and whistles that you need. And he goes and goes, I've never heard of these people. I'm buying a house. I'm nervous. I'm going to go search them. And then there's negative reviews online. Yeah. I mean, I had a personal injury attorney once tell me that he did not want to do business.

with them because they give him a hard time when he's trying to get money from them from other personal injury cases. I go, I go, you mean because they're actually defending their clients? And he's like, yeah. And I'm like, well, you just gave me the best, uh, uh, referral for or a review of them that anybody could ever want is because they're actually, they're not just paying people to pay them. They're actually have people defending their, their claims and doing the claim process. It's just not good for your bottom line pocket. And that's why you're angry about it. And I love that.

So I'm like, thank you. I won't give you this product. But guess what? Everybody else can get it and be completely satisfied. And it's just things like that where it's like if they if and it's not that they don't want to do that. It's the problem is they got a list of 35 things that they want to do. Like every other business. Yeah.

They put that at number 30. And it's like, all right. Well, these are the truth is, man, you already said it. Like I would rather be working with a carrier where. stable price is a great product and good claims handling than a product. Like I'd rather have to do the second sale for a carrier and have those other three things be dialed in as much as it is for them. So, you know, it's all about levers.

Again, and, you know, it's easy to two dudes pontificating on a podcast. But, you know, I do think that trying to, like you said, like you've done with your agency, step by step time. And again, I use New York Central Mutual as an example because I know they're working hard and getting their brand out into the space while maintaining. You know what I mean? I mean? So many other carriers fly into New York State. They got these really rock bottom prices.

They're there for a year, maybe two. And then all of a sudden, 15, 20, 40 percent increases on renewal. And you're like, oh, my God. And then they're gone. And, you know, that's the hard part. But, dude, this has been tremendous. I mean, we went so many different places. I know.

I didn't give you an agenda. I just said, yo, bro, let's get jump on the podcast. And this has been awesome. I think everyone listening at home will have enjoyed it,

hopefully as much as, as much as I just enjoyed having this rap with you. And so, so dude, people just want to check you out, connect with you. I mean, you're,

you're one of the guys in the industry that I think is doing things the absolute right way. I love your mentality. Like I said, I'm not going to build my agency the same way, but I respect the hell out of the way that you're building yours because I know you're doing it from the way you want to

build it and with intention. And I think that's what's important. And I love that. And there's so many places where we do cross too. So I just, where can people just connect with you and get to know you better? Where's the best place to find more? You know, I mean, any social media channel works really well. I'm active on all of them depending on the situation. LinkedIn right now is definitely getting most of my attention because anything you push on there, you're getting huge return on your time. And that goes for anyone that wants to create content. I mean, there's posts that I put on there that I don't think twice now like I used to

of being like, is this valuable to anybody? Like, no, this was valuable to me. So if it was valuable to me, then maybe it'll be valuable to somebody. And where you post it on Facebook, you post it on another social media platform, 25 people might see it or 57 people might see it where all of a sudden you posted on LinkedIn you could have thousands yeah within a day get get this and and there's people connecting from all over the place and so that's probably my my go-to right now um where I can kind of connect with people but definitely um any social media platform works definitely awesome well dude I

appreciate your time I appreciate you sharing so much of what you have going on with the audience and to seeing you out in San Diego. I mean, we only live two hours from each other and we have to take eight hour plane rides to see each other in person. But we'll remedy that here in upstate New York pretty soon once we get established. When are you flying in? I get in Thursday at 1030. What flight? Where are you connecting? I don't know, Delta. I'm Delta. So maybe Detroit. Yeah, all right. We might be on the same plane out of Detroit. Oh, boo-ya. I mean, I'm not flying first class like you bro. I'm back in steerage, but, uh, you know, come on. You got the Delta miles still. I used them all up. The end of the, the end of the major speaking career. You're like,

no, I'm flying first class everywhere. I got to use up these miles. Exactly. All right, dude. I'll catch you, man. Later. Everyone listening at home. Thank you for watching. Thank you for listening. I love you for listening. We're out of here. Twice as many deals by this time next week. Sound imposterone. It's not. With the one call closed system, you'll stop chasing leads and start closing deals.

In one call. This is the exact method we use to close 1,200 clients under three years during the pandemic. No fluff, no endless follow-ups, just results fast. Based in behavioral psychology and battle tested,

the one-call closed system eliminates excuses and gets the prospect saying yes, more than you ever thought possible. If you're ready to stop losing opportunities and start winning, visit masteroftheclose.com. That's masteroftheclose.com. Do it today.