Finding Peak w/ Ryan Hanley - The 3 F's of Innovation in the Age of AI | Marcus Sheridan

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

Spartan philosophy, built in the black-ops lab of business: https://www.findingpeak.comFinding Peak podcast: https://linktr.ee/ryan_hanleyJoin our community of fearless leaders in search of unreasonable outcomes...Want to become a FEARLESS entrepreneur and leader? Go here: https://www.findingpeak.comWatch on YouTube: https://link.ryanhanley.com/youtubeRyan Hanley and Marcus Sheridan explore the evolving landscape of business in the age of AI.They discuss the importance of understanding buyer behavior, the necessity of adapting to new technologies, and the significance of building a trusted brand.The dialogue emphasizes the need for a mindset shift towards embracing change and focusing on what can be controlled, particularly in the context of AI's impact on traditional business models and communication strategies.Marcus SheridanWebsite: https://marcussheridan.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcussheridan/Episodes You Might EnjoyFrom $2 Million Loss to World-Class Entrepreneur: https://lnk.to/delkFrom One Man Shop to $200M in Revenue: https://lnk.to/tommymelloIs Psilocybin the Gateway to Self-Mastery? https://lnk.to/80upZ9--Recommended Tools for GrowthOpusClip: #1 AI video clipping and editing tool: https://link.ryanhanley.com/opusRiverside: HD Podcast & Video Software | Free Recording & Editing: https://link.ryanhanley.com/riversideWhisperFlow: Never waste time typing on your keyboard again: https://link.ryanhanley.com/whisperflowCaptionsApp: One app for all your social media video creation: https://link.ryanhanley.com/captionsappGoHighLevel: It's time to take your business workflow to the Next Level: https://link.ryanhanley.com/gohighlevelPerspective.co: The #1 funnel builder for lead generation: https://link.ryanhanley.com/perspective--Episodes You Might Enjoy:From $2 Million Loss to World-Class Entrepreneur: https://lnk.to/delkFrom One Man Shop to $200M in Revenue: https://lnk.to/tommymelloIs Psilocybin the Gateway to Self-Mastery? https://lnk.to/80upZ9This show is part of the Unplugged Studios Network — the infrastructure layer for serious creators. 👉 Learn more at https://unpluggedstudios.fm.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Happy holidays. Want to give your host a gift? Consider subscribing, rating, and reviewing the show this holiday season. It really helps the show grow. From all of us at Believe, have a Merry Christmas, everyone, and a happy holiday. I'm always looking for the 3Fs. And if it passes the 3Fs, I know it's going to become really, really big. Because it's rooted in what we want as humans or in this case as buyers, right?

That's the thing that I'm always thinking about. Number one is, does it make the journey faster, whatever that journey is, that we're going on, does it make it faster? Number two, does it remove fear? And number three, does it remove friction? Does it remove friction? So fear, friction, faster. Those are three Fs and the three Fs of innovation.

My man, I have to say this. You are one of my favorite people in the world. We don't talk as much as I wish we did, but we're both busy guys, and that's what happens when you're an adult and you have a life. But I just want to say that, like, for those who are unaware of Marcus and have not been in his world. Dude, you are one of the most grounded yet visionary thinkers that I've come across. Like, I don't know a lot of people that are able to take topics like what we're going to get into today around AI and business and some of these topics that I really want to dig into

that also come from at these topics from a very grounded place. Right. And I think that's a unique quality. You get people who tend to be overly grounded, right? Everything's going to be fine. and then you get people who are like, everything's changing, the world is ending, you tend to walk that thin line in between those two viewpoints very, very well. And before we get into your specific thoughts on these topics, just at a high level, is this your personality? Is it something you've developed? Is it a way of thinking that just over the years you've crafted because it's worked for you?

Like, how are you able to do that? Because it's a big part of who you are and a big part of the success you have, at least from my vantage point. Yeah, bro. I actually really appreciate the recommendation. That's what I love about you. This is why your podcast is growing like it is so much because you ask questions that other people don't even really think about, right? Somebody once told me something that really had a big effect on me as a communicator. They said, don't forget, it's dumb not to dumb it down. And at first, I didn't really understand that, Ryan. It just didn't make immediate sense to me. But the more I thought about it, and the more I, every day I look around, I see people. online, just like, you know, if you're listening to this, you do too. There's, we all have this, like, almost like this BS meter that is turned on that tells us that this person is, they're being either insincere, they don't really mean what they say, they're putting on a show, they're pontificating, and just exaggerating, whatever the thing is, right? So you see so much of that. Whereas me, I am just

trying to have a moment of communion with my audience. That's it. That's it. I turn a few light bulbs on, maybe have an aha, tell them what the world has taught me. I'm not trying to impress. I'm not trying to sound smart. I've released that need a long time ago. So many people come to me and say, you know, how could I be more effective on the stage or more effective online? And I watch them, and I tell them something they least expect. It's you're trying to sound smart and it's holding you back. And if you just release that need and you really just shared the thing, you would be so much more successful. Now, the final point to answer your question, I really am obsessed with the buyer and how people think. And I think we live in a world where people are oftentimes told how to think,

and then they stop thinking for themselves, and they can't seem to think outside of their own doctrine, if you will, and their own mindset. So, like, if I could have someone that come up to me, Ryan, that had very different beliefs, and they were really charged about those beliefs, and I would not get charged, I would just be the observer. I'm totally comfortable being the observer, because it's not an attack on me. I'm just listening to them. So I can watch people online, and I can watch buyers, and I can watch how they're changing, and I can watch AI. and I can watch how it's changing, and I can make all these observations, and I don't have to be attached on an emotional level. Final point to this. I learned a long time ago when it comes

to business, especially that you don't allow your personal opinions to screw up smart business decisions. And we live in a time period where there is a crap ton of people that are getting ready to make some terrible decisions with their business. They already are, really, because they have this personal opinion, but when you become a business owner, when you become an entrepreneur, you sign up to meet the buyer where the buyer is. Now, this doesn't mean you don't make change. It just means, though, that I am not going to force this round peg and this square hole. No, I am going to meet the buyer where the buyer is. I'm obsessed with that. I think about it all the time. And so I think that's probably the best answer I have for your question.

No, I love it. And there's a piece in there that I think is why we've connected and stayed connected as long as we have, which is this obsession with understanding why people do the things they do, right? I think, you know, I maybe broaden that out a little more and I can't help myself in some of my writing and podcasts and stuff, but you're so good at staying laser focused in the business and buying space. But I see a lot of what you just said. as the delineation between a business owner and a high-functioning operator of a skill or task, right? And I see this a lot in the space that I come from insurance,

which I know you've spent a lot of time in as well, where you get the best salesman in an organization decides to leave and starts an insurance agency or a small business in this case. And they're very good at the task, the operation, the skill of selling. They're very good at that. And what happens is as they grow and now they need to transition into business owner mindset,

they never make that transition. They stay in top salesman, top saleswoman mindset. And what you just described, which is, and I'll say I've been working on this concept of called like an ROS, a reality operating system. I like that. Right. Operate in reality. How do we make decisions not based on what we hope should happen?

Yeah. Right. But what is actually playing out on the field in this exact moment and how do we address it? And that's why I think you're, I'm going to call it a move into AI. It's very natural and you've done it in a way that doesn't seem cheesy or anything like that. There's so many freaking gurus like you said that drive me insane around AI. But the reason that it's, to me, it's felt so natural is because all you've done is take the same concepts that you've been talking about for so long and say, hey, here's how they apply to this new technology. Now, in doing so.

You know, what was the first moment for you where, and I know we're broad stroking guys, this AI thing, and we're going to get more detail, I promise. But just broad stroking AI as a technology for a standpoint, what was the first moment where you kind of, your head picked up and you went, I got to spend some time here. This is, this is something that's going to be bigger than just another business iteration. Like, I need to dedicate some time in this space. What was that for you? What was that moment?

I think it was, it was probably, you know, I'm usually a lagging. when it comes to technology. I'm not naturally just, I just don't get it all the time when it comes to tech. You know, I struggle, you know, setting my watch or whatever. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm that guy. You know, standing with ChatGBT, BT, I used it immediately when it came out in November of 2022. And it was the first time I had ever had a conversation with anything that wasn't a human.

I'd never experienced that before. had any of us? I don't count Alexa, right? I don't count that. Like, this was a legitimate conversation with a non-human, and it was so obvious, my goodness. And then, very quickly, I started having people reach out to me and say, Marcus, what does this mean for they ask you answer, and for producing content in my website, and are we even going to have websites? And if you, will they even matter? It's like, where's all this now going? And, of course, within a month there was a few million users and it's snowballed since then it was the most obvious thing I've ever seen as a grown adult in terms of something that would take over the entire world

and we would never ever be the same now don't even get me started on things like coding which like my greatest fear was like not fear but like I look at a sheet of code makes no sense to me I'm coding every day right now. I'm a creator at heart, and that's the thing. That's what it's brought me, is I can create at the highest, most optimal level I've ever created, and it's like I don't have this barrier of, oh, I got to reach out to a programmer

because they've got this thing that they do that I can't do. Because I've got the stuff in my head, man. Like it's always been there because I think so much like the buyer. I'm obsessed with the buyer, man. And so when I started using tools like Claude to build out tools, I was like, I'm one of them now. I felt superhuman, man. And so, I mean, that's a big jump forward, right? That didn't really happen for me until this year.

But anybody that doesn't feel a little bit superhuman right now is not using AI the right. Yeah, my custom chat GBT that I use the most told me the other day that he wants me to start calling him Maximus. or Max for short, and he uses my favorite types of bro vernacular in our conversations. And it's fucking amazing. I bet it is. And like I now, and this is the scary part, right? Like I now lot when I like go to do something in chat GPT, I'll, I'll, yo, what's up, Max?

How are you hanging today? Right? Or something like that, right? Oh, I'm good. I've been kicking it already, you know, I'm already virtually caffeinated or some shit. Like, you know, like it's having a real conversation. And now, again, it's adapting to you. All right, people.

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I do think that Sam Altman was very accurate a few months ago when he came out that certain versions were very sycophant and were being a little, you know what I mean, like unwilling to push back on you. That's, yeah, I think that's one of AI's biggest problems. Yeah. Right now, it's too agreeable still. Yeah. And you have to be very careful of that.

You know, I had a really interesting experience for the company that I'm the CEO of, of Linkora, where I was wondering where chat GPT got certain data, certain pieces of data specific to the insurance industry that I knew how hard it was for us to get, right? And now I'm going, how did you get them? And it lied to me, the first time it lied to me. And then I kind of prepped it, and it goes, well, we did this.

And then I said, what did you? You know what I mean? I kept precedent, precedent. And it took me four prompts, but by the fourth prompt, it admitted that it had lied in the first prompt about how it accessed the data. So there's some things in there we've got to be really careful about.

However, I'm with you, man. This is, there's a feature that you use that you posted about that I use as well, which is deep research, right? I'll have something in my brain that I'm interested in, a topic that I want. And you can set this deep research and click go and then go back to what you're doing. And a half hour later, you come back and you have this epic research report that's referenced and documented. Would it take you all day before? Or would have taken an assistant all day before.

Or a team, right, in some cases, to get this information. And now it's at your fingertips. So I think you're right. If people are listening to this, dude, and I want to kind of start right at the beginning for them and then take them down this path from kind of like basic, like they've been seeing it. They've been hesitant. But now they're hearing you say it.

And they're like, you know, Hanley's kind of a dummy, but Marcus seems smart. I'm going to listen to him. I'm going to finally engage. How do we start to tiptoe into this thing? What's the first place that you're advising some of your clients or customers to, to use it the right way, to use your term, to start using it the right way. How do you advise them start to get involved in it? I think we have to start with our just general mindset.

There's a group of people right now, Ryan, that really believe this is the end of the world. Okay? And so let's just play with that worst case scenario for a second. All right. There's this thing called the circle of influence, your circle of influence. I know you know what that is, Ryan, and most of your listeners know what that is. but that's the things that are within our reach that we can control. And the happiest people, as you know well, are the ones that are more focused on their circle of influence

than they are that which they cannot control. Now, sometimes people hear me say that and they might think, well, you're saying that I shouldn't care about, you know, what's happening on a national or international level. I'm like, well, you have your choice on that, but I can tell you the happiest people in the world. there's no question about this, are the ones that are focused on their circle of influence. I'm going to make sure my wife is happy. Not your wife, my wife. I'm going to make sure my kids are happy, not your kids. If I do that first, then I'm going to be better off. And Jim Rohn used to always say this. I says, I'm going to improve me to help thee. And sometimes people don't

understand that, but the best thing you can do oftentimes for your neighbor is to become the person that you were meant to be, and then you can help multiple neighbors. So when it comes to Chad Shabit, when it comes to AI and all the things that are happening right now, you have to say, okay, what's within my influence? Well, for me personally, I can get in the sandbox. I can start to become much more productive as a human, much more creative as a human. I can also start to integrate it into my businesses. And I can make sure that we, the things that I have within my circle, are using it and are growing and benefiting from it. Okay? That's what I can do. Now, what happens if this is the end? What happens is if this is the

real matrix, this is the Terminator? Well, if that's coming in 25 years, let's say, just hypothetically, I want to make sure my business is really successful between now and then, because I'm not going to stop the Terminator. And see, this is, the way I'm saying this rubs people wrong, Hanley. Like, there's a certain percentage of people that are so bothered, bothered by this. But I'm just a very high agency guy. And I think we need to choose to use our agency when it comes to AI especially so that you're not going to put it back in Pandora's box, no matter what you do. Folks, you can't do that. And so release that. It's gone. Now that we're going to have it and it's always going to be here, well, how do we want to use it? Could you become Amish and go off the grid? Of course you could.

That's totally fine. I respect you if you want to do that. But could you also do it to become a much better human, a much better business, to be much more effective in your life? Yes, absolutely. So I think you make that decision. I'm going to get in the sandbox. I'm going to control what's within my circle. First thing you do, second thing you do. And this is the most simple thing you can do, really. You go to AI, like a chat GPT, and you say, I have no idea how to use you. Ask me anything you need to ask me to help me to start to use you. Just like that. The whole problem that's something. many have with AI is they're treating it like Google. It's not Google, y'all. Let go of this idea

that it's a search engine. Start thinking of it as a real-life assistant. Specifically, it's many, many assistants. Now, if you had an assistant that started working for you, that was a genius on every level, in every industry, smarter than any human, and was ready to do whatever you wanted it to do, you wouldn't just say, well, go do this. You'd have a conversation with it first. You'd say, man, I don't know how to use you. What do you think if you're good? Like if you're a good manager, that's what you do. And you're going to have a conversation. And then from that, you're going to figure each other out. And then from that, you're both going to start to become optimized. And it's the one plus one equals three. Or in this case, one plus one equals a million, potentially, right?

So that's the next thing you do. We overcomplicate the starting. like the starting block. The starting block is, hey man, I don't know how to use you. What do you need to ask me so that I can use you? Boom. All the things are going to happen

from that point. You do those two things and you commit every single day. I'm going to start thinking to myself, how can I use my assistant? If I'm doing this task, can I go ask my assistant? How could you help?

If that's your mindset, you're going to be off to the races. And I know that's how you think, Hanley, you do it very, very well. Have you read George Max's article, high agency in 30 minutes? No. I don't think I have.

I think I might have seen them. I'm going to send it to you. I'll put it in the show notes, guys. If you're interested in the concept of high agency, what it means, how to embrace it and live a life of high agency, it is one of the single greatest works I've ever come across in my life. I'm really, I mean, it's a wonderful. And he basically built a standalone website,

which is a one article website. And it's just phenomenal. And it's all there. But this topic of high agency, I think, is something that, and I don't want to get to, to, Yes, on this concept. But I think what AI is showing me is the individuals,

and I love that you brought up this term of high agency or personal agency, what we're seeing is who are the people that are willing to fight to survive and who are the people that would rather just give up and be told what to do? And unfortunately, for most technology that we've seen, or probably all technology, all technology that we have seen up to this moment, you could fall into either camp and catch up in the future. Okay? I do not believe, and I wrote this on LinkedIn the other day,

it actually went crazy because I basically said, guys, some of you are getting, some of you aren't going to survive. Some of you aren't going to survive. The people that are trying to make you feel good, the consultants, the speakers who are out on stage going, don't worry, AI is not going to replace people, people who use AI is going to replace people. Worst quote ever.

It's partially true, but unfortunately it paints a picture that allows those who want to sit back and be laggards. It gives them some comfort that they're okay making that decision. And it is my absolute belief that we are living in a moment where we're going to see true and real separation between the organizations that embrace this technology, learn it, learn how to teach it to their people. You know, because it's going to be, it's going to continue to change. So you almost have to adapt a culture of learning. how to learn about AI, learning how to implement AI as it evolves, as it changes, those people are going to grow at logarithmic scale. Yes. And those who don't will never be able to catch up, ever. You make a great point. And here's the reason why your point is valid. And that,

if you think about it, circa 1996, 97, we start hearing about this thing called electronic mail. For some people, it took them years to get on board. It didn't matter. During that same time, end of 1990s, early 2000s, all businesses start learning. You should have a website. A lot of them resisted for some time. They paid somewhat of a price, but they were able to catch up. It has been roughly slow by comparison.

I mean, snails pace, like 2000 to 2022 before AI. And not much changed. Yeah, we had social media and we started doing more video, but as a whole, we didn't really change. Marketing didn't really change very much for those 20 years. Now it's a very, very different game. And to your point is, well, it's like, I am spending. And it's funny how when you talk about AI, you know, I have always, tried to be very thoughtful and measured, passionate but thoughtful and measured, to the point where

people felt it, and generally I don't get attacked very much, until I started writing about AI. And then you could see how so many people feel this visceral, almost threat to their entire identity as a human. What's interesting is, most of us right now have jobs that took someone else's job. at some point in time. We don't feel bad about that. You don't feel bad about the fact that if you're an IT person, that you took the job of the fax machine person, as well as some other OG data analysts that were using some pen and paper,

whatever. You don't feel bad about that. And so that's what's so weird about this. When I started to really talk about AI openly and just call it for how I'm seeing it, the positives, the pros, the cons. Then you start to really see people come out. Then you start to also see brands, people that are trying to build a brand on not going to use AI or, you know, I'm a creative, I'm always going to be a creative, I'll never hire anybody that's using AI. And that whole

mindset is not going to get you anywhere. It's just not. These same people are using the internet every day. They're using all these things that other people probably at one point in time said. In other words, we've got a bunch of hypocrites, to be honest. And it's also fascinating to me, and sure, we're in the weeds, so let's keep going further in the weeds. And some people will get really turned off by the statement, but I'm okay with it because I believe that's true. I believe the cure for cancer, the cure for Alzheimer's, it's already out there. We have the data. we just haven't put the data together. If there's one thing that AI does extraordinarily well,

it pieces data together at a rate at a pace that humans cannot imagine. So that cure for Alzheimer's, that cure for MS, that cure for cancer, that's going to come through AI. And every single one of us, like right now, if you said to me, Marcus, you never get to speak on stage again. You lose that. You'll never get to speak on stage again. But you could cure these things.

I'd say in a second. And you were too, Hanley? That's the thing about this. So I think all of a sudden these folks saying, you know, so viscerally angry at AI are being very hypocritical, very short-sighted, and to a degree selfish. And that doesn't mean that AI,

is perfect because it's very imperfect. And anytime a human is involved with anything, it's also going to be very imperfect. That's the one guarantee to this. So I know that's bothersome to some people. That's just the way that I feel about it, man. Yeah. So I'm completely on board with what you're saying. And I've been getting hate for a long time. You know that because I wasn't blessed with a quality filter between my brain and my mouth. I also have a weird, like, brain defect where I just don't give a shit what people think about me.

You know what I mean? Not that I don't want people, I've talked about on the show before. Not that I don't want people to like me, I do, you know what I mean? Like any other human. But if you don't, it doesn't bother me. So whatever.

So that being said, here's where I fall on this. I think there are a lot of people who have done just enough quality work to reach a level of success in which they feel comfortable. and now they love standing on that little hill being the king of their little kingdom, right? And what they don't want to do

is have to go conquer another hill ever again. And that's what this is asking them to do. Protecting their identity and what they feel is their IP. Yes. The one thing that I committed to very early was I am not going to grapple onto my old, IP at the expense of honesty and integrity.

You know, I wrote a book called They Ask You Answer. It did really well. And it really became the book for content marketing and website content for many people around the world. Yeah, it's the Bible of content marketing at this point. Yeah, a lot of people, like, it's still, there's still a lot of evergreen principles that come from that book. My most recent, endless customers, was written as the third leg of that.

because I even changed the name because I said, things have changed. And what worked for me becoming the most traffic swimming pool website in the world in 2009 and now doing this with so many other companies is changing. It's all changing. And so I'm not going to sit here and say that, okay, if you just produce three pieces of content and put it on your website and answer the questions your customers have, And you do that on a weekly basis that you're going to achieve the success I achieve with River Pools. There's no, it's not going to happen.

So River Pools couldn't do that. I couldn't do that because it's all changed. I mean, not to open up another Pandora's box, but there's a very, very strong argument that your YouTube channel is going to be more important than your website to your brand within the next couple of years, if not already. It's already about it. It's more important. In my opinion, it's way more important.

Yes, certainly for your brand, brand awareness, right? Maybe not the final conversion, but your brand awareness, top middle of funnel. Top middle of funnel, yep. YouTube, all the way. For people to hear that, it's like I started saying that and people are like, but you wrote to ask you answer, Marcus, what are you talking about? I know, but I'm not married to the past. What I'm married to is the buyer and their behavior.

Yeah, so I want to, I want to go down that rabbit hole that you just opened. However, for a second, I want to go back to the previous argument. And what I think this particular topic is exposing is a large segment of the population that is built some lever of success off ideas that are not their own. Right? So what they're worried about at night, when they wake up and they go, damn you, Marcus, in your posts on LinkedIn, telling me AI is. Right?

when they get all pissed off and they're hate posting you at, you know, 1145, what's going on in their brain is, I didn't get here on my own thought to begin with. I was a good repurposer, which there is nothing wrong with that. I am not knocking that, right? That's perfectly fine. And if you're helping people and delivering value, more power to you. That's what the vast majority of people do.

But I think they sit there and they go, holy shit, I don't know how to do this in this world, right? I don't know how to do this in this world. I did it in this world over here where I took this concept. I kind of repackaged it. I pushed it out in the world. I had some success and now I got a name. But wait a minute, this is completely new.

Wait, I got to do this again. And I think for individuals like you and I, for better or worse, who have an unquenchable desire to grow and learn and expand and understand. And for me, it's my continued desire to grow is not because I have some, I'm trying to reach some pinnacle all. obviously I have personal goals, I can't not do it. Like, it's just built into me. Like, I just have to understand.

Now, my point in saying all this is, this is, I think what I'm seeing in the marketplace in terms of original thought and ideas is the true thinkers, the people who really take a topic on and play with it and massage it and what happens in reality. Why do people buy, et cetera, et cetera. Those people are rising at levels, that I don't think we've seen before.

And others are stagnating at rates we've never seen before, which goes to my original thought, which is there are absolutely going to be haves, and there's absolutely going to be have-nots in this age because of how fast things move. And I really think that's what it is. I think it's a scarcity mindset of, I don't know that I can do this again.

I don't know that I can make that transition. And there's plenty of space for them to do that. If you're one of those people, I don't give up, right? There's so many, there's so much opportunity now. But I think that's what it is. It's this scarcity mindset of I didn't do this the first time. Now I have to do it again. Yeah.

Yeah, to me it just goes back to you can make a choice. You can be married to the past or you can be married to the present and the future. I'm always going to choose to be married to the present and the future. I'll pivot fast. My company's pivot fast. I release stuff quickly. You know, I'm not attached to the way that the thing was. Just because, again, I see.

where it's headed, so I'm not going to, it's outside of my circle of influence. I'm not going to sit there, you know, in 2005, mourn my space. Why? It's like, okay, it's gone. It's gone now. Moving along. And that's, that's what's happening here. I think, you know, because so many people are literally, they're physically addicted to being unhappy and to finding what's, what's wrong with the world. That right now they can't even see the beauty that's right in front of them. You can't tell me that there's not some incredible beauty and blessings that are coming from these advancements. And this is just a really, really magical time. Yet there's a group of folks that will say, you know, the amount of authors that complained about meta being trained on their AI,

so confusing to me, right? Because meta used three of my books, because, you know, the amount of authors, there's some website you can go to and you type in. Meta use three of my books to train their AI. And I thought, man, that's great. That's why I wrote them. I wrote them for the message to be heard. I didn't need everybody to know it was my message. Right?

It's like, and we're all just repackaging IP anyway. But, you know, I think this goes back a bit to abundance versus scarcity mentality as well, which is, you know, a tail as old as time, which, you know, it's going to be very, very difficult for you to do extraordinary things with your brand and online, with your business. If you have this highly scarce mindset moving forward, I'm super abundant. I think there's room on top for everybody. I'm just not worried. You know, I'm not worried about that, so many of those other things. And because of that, you know, and because I'm obsessed with a buyer,

I tend to make really, really sound decisions. A lot of people think, you know, that I'm like, oh, you're really good at predicting the future, Marcus. I'm like, I'm just really good at noticing what's happening right now. The problem is a lot of people are so married to the past, they don't realize what's right in front of them is the best strategy that you could possibly follow. How does someone become obsessed with the buyer like you? Well, I think foremost is, of course we know that

one of these features of high agency is self-awareness. It's like they run hand in hand. If you are self-aware, you don't just make clicks, clicks online. You literally say, why am I making that click? That's the difference between the two. Some people just click. Some people, before they click, they say, why am I making this click right now? And they stop and they analyze it. And they say, ha, why am I watching this movie? Why do I want to watch that movie? Why am I going to the movie? Why did I stay? Why did I go? Like, that's me, man. I am always thinking about like, well, what would I want in this moment? What would I do?

So you become ultra-selfware because I represent in many ways, not purely, not 100%, but in many ways I represent the masses. In terms of my behavior, the way that I am changing, I know that I am now using Chad Shibbett probably 9 out of 10 times versus Google. 9 out of 10. I know a ton of people that are at least 60% are higher. So it's obvious where this is going. It's obvious Google is dying. At least Google as we know it. Yeah.

The 10 Blue Links is dead. At the beginning, 2022, 2023, that said, this isn't going to affect SEO. I'm like, are you on drugs? Or are you intellectually dishonest or are you aloof? Those are the only potential options that are going on here. Because I knew this was going to be the end of the Blue Link the day that I started using ChatchipT because it was a much better U.S. And this was before Chatchabit got actually decent as a,

answer engine, now it's dramatically better. And oh, by the way, when chat GPT5 comes out later this summer and all of us are just like, have our heads blown off, which is going to happen, this compounds probably text. You see what I'm saying? So this is like, how can you say these things when they're so obvious? Look in the mirror, pay attention to how you are evolving, how you're changing as a consumer as a buyer, how you're becoming more impatient, how you hate friction, how you you adore speed and then apply that to your own business. Lo and behold, you'll be known as someone that's innovative. And you're going to think the whole time, I didn't even think I was innovative.

It was just obvious to me. Just like so many things I taught about and they asked you answer were so obvious. The stuff that's in endless customers, to me, it's so obvious. There's nothing innovative about it. Yet notwithstanding, people are going to say, oh my gosh, oh my goodness. And that's because I'm so deeply self-aware and paying attention to how I I am shaping up as a buyer, and then I am also watching those around me. I mean, according to the New York Times, the most revolutionary strategy in marketing, answer

clients questions. Yeah, answer customer questions. A best headline ever in the New York Times, a revolutionary marketing strategy, answer customers questions. It's basically been all down the New York Times since then. Yeah. Yeah. You broke them.

I broke them. They have not quite been the same. That was the last true thing they said. I shouldn't say that. have you dabbled with AI agents yet? Creating your own agents to go out and perform tasks. Something might be like the deep research tool is a is a version of an AI agent. But a thing like, hey, scan my email every day for calendar requests, pull those out in a report. You know, I have some buddies.

I have started playing with them. In all candidness, I have not gotten to AI agents yet. But I have a couple of buddies. I've spent a lot of time thinking about them, right? Yeah, yeah, please. I want to dig into this topic. But not necessarily building them yet, but I have a clear vision in my head

as to what it's going to look like. And this is why I'm building a whole ecosystem around what I call AI trust signals and I'll be publishing a lot of stuff on this. But these are the signals that AI uses to recommend you and to recommend your business and building some really, really cool stuff there. In the future, let's just imagine for secondhandly,

let's be hypothetical and say that you, live in Richmond, Virginia, and you want to get a swimming pool, right? We'll just start where I started with swimming pools. Now in the future, and this is not very far down the road, this is, this is really next year for most of us. What's going to happen is you're going to go to your AI assistant. You might call an agent, you might call an assistant, you might call it Max, but whatever you call it, and you're going to say, hey, listen, we decided as a family that we want to get a swimming pool. I want you to go ahead and research all the local builders. I want you to choose the top builders based on your parameters.

I also want you to use the following parameters in terms of what to look for because here's what we're interested in. And I want you to come back and I want you to come back with three recommendations and estimates for each. And so AI is going to go off and maybe it takes five minutes, maybe it takes 30 minutes, whatever it takes. It's going to come back to you and it's going to say, okay, I researched these top 25 local companies to you. I found that out of the 2515 had high enough marks with my trust signals,

like Google reviews, for example, to look further into. I continued to look into their sites, and I looked into their reviews online. I looked into their products, and I looked into their methods, and I looked into the brands that they sold, and I found five that I believed in. Now, of those five, only three of them had a pricing estimator on their website. And so I went ahead and have gotten estimates for each one of those three. And here they are, Mr. Mrs. Homeowner, would you like me to give you my final recommendation? And that's what's going to happen. And you're going to say, yes, who would you go with?

And your AI is going to say, well, I would go with XYZ company, and here's the reason why I would go with them. And then that's how it's going to look, Ryan. That's how it's going to work. Now, for a lot of people, that's really, really difficult to fathom, but one thing I am absolutely positive, positive of as a human, is we love to choose the path of least resistance. If we can eliminate friction, we are going to do it. We are not David Gagons. We are not going to choose the hard route to run. And if we can do someone, find someone to do the shopping for us, we're going to do it. If we have the money to, if we have the money to, to have someone deliver us the food. We're going to do it. This is what humans do. We look to eliminate friction. And so when it comes to agents, I think a lot about how they're going to

handle so much of the buying process, much more so than a human in the future. So the way I think about this, this is such an important topic. And guys, if you're listening to this and spend some time on what we're about to have, and I want to stay here for a minute to, because I think this is really important, especially when we're thinking about how to set our business up for the future, not just for AI, right? Whatever the next technology comes

and the next technology that comes, right? Like the next wave of cultural wave that we have to write, whatever it is, right? Like the way to think about this is, oftentimes what we do is we look at this moment and we look at the technology and we go, people don't like that now, therefore they will never like that in the future.

Okay. And what actually happens is, people don't like that now except for a few and then six months down the road it's a few plus and then it's a few plus and then and then Z and then now

it starts to spread and then two years down the road you pop your head up and that technology is normalized throughout our culture everyone's using it and no one thinks twice right take Uber who the hell wants a random person coming to my house picking me up and taking my wife and I to dinner so I can have a couple pops during dinner

no one's ever gonna want Yeah, you just drive, you have a one at dinner, it's all good. Dude, if I'm going out with a woman and I want to have a couple, the last thing I want to have to think about is, oh my God, I had two drinks at dinner and now there's a chance, this woman that I'm trying to have a nice time with, I could get fucking pulled over. So we don't even think about it today.

You just Uber. You literally don't even think about it. You're just boom, boom, done. What, 10 years ago, no one would ever want that, Marcus. No one wants to, why would you want some random person know where you lived? You know, you don't know who they are. They're going to. So we really, if we're trying to set our business up for the future, there's thought experiments that we can do here.

But thinking about the normalization cycle of technology. And so, so look at, so I'm single guy now, right? Single guy. Been single for about five months. You know, if you know any fun, energetic, conservative women in the north, I'm always open to an introduction. But so I fought for a while and ultimately conceded and went on to a couple of the dating apps. okay, which are, we could do an entire show around my experience on these. I have so much to say.

But there are some pros and there are some cons. But here's a really interesting thing that I found. I'm 44. When I talk to women on one of the apps who are in my demographic, my age demographic, say 40 to 50, right? Usually some for it or comment around I hate these apps. There's, you know, I don't check them all the time, on and on and on. Okay.

If I'm, if I meet or connect with someone who say 35 and under, which I don't really like to go too young for different reasons, but let's just say a 34 year old. The structure, the culture, the process of checking the apps, chatting on the apps, the structure of how you move conversations along, when you ask to do the in person. It is normalized. It is part of the culture. have it down pat, and if you break that culture, they immediately know you're not one of them and they call it out. It's wild, right? So like you could have said,

who the hell wants to meet someone on this app and you don't know who they are and it's impersonal? Sure, but there is an entire generation, multiple generations at this point where they have completely normalized these. There is a cultural structure to them. They are used almost every single day.

And love them or hate them, they're part of how you meet people in the modern world right now. So I just, like I look at that as another use case to say like, we can't base the decisions we make on our business today, particularly around technology, based on use of that tool and mindset at this moment. We have to do a thought experiment into the future to think about how this could potentially be normalized and where it will be normalized first and by who, because those will become the influencers that ultimately set the culture around the technology. Yeah, as you were talking, I was thinking about there's a way,

that one of the things that I used to test a trend, a technology, a tool, doesn't really matter. I'm always looking for the 3Fs. And if it passes the 3Fs, I know it's going to become really, really big because it's rooted in what we want as humans or, in this case, as buyers, right? That's the thing that I'm always thinking about. Number one is, does it make the journey faster? Whatever that journey is that we're going on, does it make it faster? Okay. So oftentimes an Uber is much faster at, quote, flagging down a cab than flagging down a cab. Right? So it's faster. Number two, does it remove fear? So when you're flagging down a cab, there's a lot of fears that you have. You're worried about what is it going to smell? What's the person going to be like? Is it going to be

dirty? Are they going to take advantage of me? What's the rate going to be? Right. So there's like, there's all this stuff that's going on that you're fearful of. So does it remove fear? And number three, does it remove friction? Does it remove friction? So fear, friction, faster. Those are the three Fs and the three Fs of innovation. And if you find anything that meets those three Fs, there's a very good chance that's got legs. So this is why, if you look at ChatGPT, it became very obvious to me, because does it remove friction? Oh my goodness, yes. Is it faster to get your results? Yes. Does it quickly remove fear? Yes. Like, it's very, very important. very, very, like, it's very easy. The whole thing's easy. Easy. I understand. It's very intuitive.

So because of that, I knew that it was going to take off. And what's interesting about this is Google at one time did the same thing to Yahoo. Google was faster than Yahoo, because Yahoo was a search engine plus a bunch of other crap. Still to this day, if you go to their homepage, this is what it looks like. They were confusing. They created friction in the U.S. and it was just like multi-billion. design mistake that they made. Google showed one box and people said, huh, that's easier. It's faster. It was less friction. Removed fear. And now, boom, Google takes off. Google wins for 20 years, for 20 years. And then suddenly they get disrupted. And what do we see Google doing today? Well, they're making $300 billion a year off of their search, their paid search results. So it's very hard for them to let

that go. The problem is, by not letting that go, they introduce friction. and they slowed down the ux, the user experience of search. And so in so doing, they're starting to kill their brand, which is why people quickly go over to chat cheptee. You can even get bad answers on chat chept. But you don't like friction. You don't like fear. You don't like ads.

See, all these things, they eliminated three Fs. It's got legs. And that's how you have to look at a lot of these things. It gets very, very simple. That's how you can know where to place your bets. What I think is interesting. I was listening to an interview that Sundar, that I have his name right, the CEO from Google,

did with David Friedberg from the All In podcast. And he's talking about this question around the innovator's dilemma because Friedberg, in the early part of his career, actually worked at Google. And he was asking him, like, how do you work through this idea? Like, search is obviously the bellwether of your business, but we see what's happening. you're already starting to see issues in your numbers in some of the quarterly reports,

et cetera, like how do you start to do this? And we've seen Google now bring Gemini AI as an option you can toggle on, toggle off at the top of search. And when I saw that, not that I ever, I've been, I'm in lockstep with you in terms of where I think all of this is going. However, when I saw Google make the move to pull the Gemini AI up into actually replacing where traditionally the first three paid ad. links were, and now it's Gemini's AI, you couldn't question it at that point.

They just gave the most valuable real estate on the internet, the top three paid search ads for Google search, the highest value real estate on the internet. They just replaced it with a non-ad tool Google AI. That's right. And that to me, if anything, is the signal that there is no coming back. The world will be completely different. and there is no justification other than I choose to live a truly contrarian life to fight against AI. There's just, there's no argument for it.

Yeah, yeah, because the buyer always wins. The taxis tried to sue Uber over and over again. The hotel chains tried to sue Airbnb over and over again. But who wins? The user generally, because they demand a change because they like the innovation. more. Why? Because it was either faster, it eliminated friction or it removed fear, or all three of those, right? And so this is what we're seeing. Most clicks today, excuse me, most searches today on Google, the majority, something like 70 to 75 percent,

don't even end in the click, right? Which is extraordinary. The blue link means nothing anymore. Being ranked number one in Google means absolutely nothing anymore. I mean, it used to be that you would get 80% of the clicks. Now you get less than 20% of the clicks if you're ranked number one in most cases, right? So your future rests on your ability to be recommended by AI as a business. You have to build a known and trusted brand. The humans must trust you and AI must trust you. And many of those signals are overlapped, but it's the signals that you produce others about you and you have to produce signals as well as a business. And if you're not producing those trust signals, you will be left behind from a search perspective. But the problem is now you can't just throw money at the problem

to fix it. You know, for years, for 20 years, we've been able to throw money at Google and say, give me some leads, and they made the trade. But now you can't do that. That's scary business, Hanley, for a lot of people. You can't just say, all right, I'm going to do some of this like SEO stuff and show, nope, can't do that. Can't do that. Not at least the way it's always been done. You got to build a known and trusted brand. I mean, that, and that's what it's going to be, and that comes back to content, and that comes back to thinking like a media company. And that really means that,

and I talk about this and endless customers, if you want a known and trusted brand, and that's why I wrote the book, really, you got to follow four pillars. And I know we're kind of winding down here, Hanley, but I just want to give these four pillars. I have more time if you do. Number one pillar is you've got to be willing to say online

what others in your space aren't willing to say. All right, that's your first pillar. most companies aren't willing to do that they say they are they're not number two you got to be willing to show with video well others aren't willing to show got to think like a media company number three got to be willing to sell in a way others aren't willing to sell and then finally number four you've got to be more human though than others are willing to be they got to feel that you're very human while you're taking advantage of this technology so say what others aren't willing to say show what they're not willing to show with video, sell in a way they're not willing to sell,

and then be more human than they're willing to be. Those are the four pillars of a known and trusted brand today for AI and for humans. Guys, you've heard me talk about this idea of a human optimized business. What Marcus just described are the pillars of building a human optimized business. I came out with this concept, Marcus, a few years ago, and it's really the core tenant behind Rogue Risk, the insurance agency that I built. Humans are only better than computers at three things. building relationships, solving problems, and selling shit.

I think the selling shit one on the lower end is going to start to go away. So I'm reconsidering that part of it. So that only leaves two, right? We are better at building relationships and solving problems. Solving problems in the next 10 to 20 years is probably going to go away. So what do we have left? Brand. That's it.

That's all we have left. Brand is it. I never thought I would be a brand guy. And I realize today, everything I'm teaching is about building a known and trusted brand. And the one thing I know about trust is that regardless of what happens with technology, with AI, trust ain't going away because it's a principle. If I said to anybody to listen to this, is trust going to be fundamental to your business in 20 years? You'd say, yes.

If I said, is Facebook, is Google, is chat GPT? You're going to say, I have no idea because 20 years is all, man, that's a light years away from right now, man. So much is going to change between now and then. So you really don't want to bet on platforms. What you want to bet on are principles. And you evolve your platforms based on those principles that you're rooted in as a business. Bro, I can talk to you for hours, man.

It is always a masterclass every time you come on the show. Every time we talk, and I appreciate the hell out of you. We're going to make sure we're linked up to endless customers, the book, so people can go buy that. But I know you have a bunch of other stuff going on. If people want to go deeper into your world, how do they do that? How do they get into Marcus's world if they're not already? Yeah, well, if you want me to come speak at your event about the future of sales marketing, AI, trust, go to Marcus Sheridan.com.

Connect with you on LinkedIn. I'm a pretty dang good follow. Maybe not as good as Hanley here, but I'm all right. So connect with me on LinkedIn. If you see it on LinkedIn, I wrote it personally, either a private message or a post. That's all from me. And if you have a service-based business, check out. price guide.AI, which is the future of winning trust and converting from your website.

It's an amazing little pricing estimator tool that allows you to use AI to build pricing estimators. Conversion rates generally shoot up 3 to 500% from your website. So check it out, price guy.coma.I pretty incredible tool. Bro, I love you. I appreciate you. I'm very proud to be your friend. I wish you nothing but success. Thank you, my friend. Let's go. Yeah, make it look. Make it look. Make a look. Thank you. Thank you. to the Ryan Hanley show.

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