Finding Peak w/ Ryan Hanley - The Pursuit of Personal Growth: Navigating Success and Perfectionism with Chris Marr

Episode Date: November 21, 2023

Spartan philosophy, built in the black-ops lab of business: https://www.findingpeak.comFinding Peak podcast: https://linktr.ee/ryan_hanleyWhat if the only thing standing between you and your highest potential is the right kind of guidance?Dive in as we chat about the role of coaching, its challenges, and how it intricately intertwines with teaching.✅ Get frameworks & mental models for high achievement: https://go.ryanhanley.com✅ For daily insights and ideas on peak performance: https://www.instagram.com/ryan_hanley/✅ Hire me to speak at your next event: https://ryanhanley.com/speaking** Connect with Guest **✅Chris Marr’s Book: https://amzn.to/46a7DsW✅Chris’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/theauthoritativecoach/** More about this episode **With our guests providing us with an intriguing perspective on the egocentric aspects of coaching, we seek to elucidate how the right balance of guidance and space for clients to self-discover can be pivotal.As the conversation unfolds, we shift gears to talk about imposter syndrome, confidence, and the perils of perfectionism. We examine how market acceptance and support can fuel confidence and discuss how a dash of self-awareness and anxiety can be healthy.Using the success story of Tim Ferriss, we reflect on the importance of tinkering and experimenting to achieve success and how overthinking can be detrimental.As we steer our conversation toward personal identity, manifestation, and action toward goals, we unravel how we can bridge our inner thoughts with the external world to drive our ambitions. We also share some tips on striking a balance between aspirations and personal values, while exploring the realm of new hobbies and the importance of mindset growth.Listen in, as we explore how becoming a coach-like communicator and worker can lead to transformations and breakthroughs.#findingpeak #confidence #innerthoughts #outerthoughtsLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices--Recommended Tools for GrowthOpusClip: #1 AI video clipping and editing tool: https://link.ryanhanley.com/opusRiverside: HD Podcast & Video Software | Free Recording & Editing: https://link.ryanhanley.com/riversideWhisperFlow: Never waste time typing on your keyboard again: https://link.ryanhanley.com/whisperflowCaptionsApp: One app for all your social media video creation: https://link.ryanhanley.com/captionsappGoHighLevel: It's time to take your business workflow to the Next Level: https://link.ryanhanley.com/gohighlevelPerspective.co: The #1 funnel builder for lead generation: https://link.ryanhanley.com/perspective--Episodes You Might Enjoy:From $2 Million Loss to World-Class Entrepreneur: https://lnk.to/delkFrom One Man Shop to $200M in Revenue: https://lnk.to/tommymelloIs Psilocybin the Gateway to Self-Mastery? https://lnk.to/80upZ9Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.This show is part of the Unplugged Studios Network — the infrastructure layer for serious creators. 👉 Learn more at https://unpluggedstudios.fm.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

I love that you brought up that perfectionism is actually a fragile characteristic, not an anti-fragile characteristic. And I think that perfectionism comes from two places, ego and insecurity. Because you either believe that your work has to be perfect or is perfect to begin with and therefore any imperfections are not allowed, which would be the ego side, or you're so insecure that somehow you're going to be judged or not given opportunities if, say, your idea isn't perfect or isn't fully formed that you don't. Hello, everyone and welcome back to the show.

Today we have a tremendous episode for you, a conversation with Chris Mar. Chris is the Global Coaching Performance Director for Impact, one of the leading digital marketing agencies in the country. He is also a they ask, you answer, master coach. And now the author of Become an Authoritative Coach, Stop People Pleasing, Challenge or Clients, and Be Indispensable. And whether you are a coach or a sales professional, this is a book, a leader or a manager, this is a book that is going to change the way you view your, how you listen, how you talk to,

how you communicate with any individual in which you have influence over. mean influence in a nefarious way. I mean it in a very positive way. And this book has been game-changing for me in the way that I approach my work. I've already adapted several of the principles and mindsets into my leadership techniques. And sure, as I continue to digest it, I will have even more. Chris is a tremendous guy. I've known him for a while. We have a very good mutual friend in Marcus Sheridan that is where I actually met Chris and our love for content marketing, digital marketing, and really just Chris being a tremendous human. It was a pleasure to connect with him.

It's been a few years and learn what he's up to and to really break down this idea of what it means to be an authoritative coach. You are going to love this episode of the show. Before we get there, guys, if you enjoy listening, if this podcast is something that has value to your life, my only ask is that you share the show. Share the show. Send it via text to somebody email. Send it to your text chain group. Share it in a social media group that you have.

Or just post it on one of your social media profile. or share it with your team. That helps the show spread, the ideas spread, and it also helps us reach out to new and engaging guests for the show. And it also is a big stroke of my ego, which is equally important. Now, I appreciate you guys for listening. I love you for listening. If this show is helping you become the best version of yourself,

then you are in the right place. Let's get to Chris Marr. What's going on with you, man? I'm good. Yeah, all good too, man. I'm just wrapping up my day actually so yeah it's good to see you

yeah you do it's been a while it has been a long time we had my head down doing a lot of work over the last four or five years so yeah that's a good day it is a good thing it's been great I switched over to impact

over four years ago now and that was when the work really began so it's been like just head down lots of coaching 25 hours a week of coach or something like that for years so it's been it's been a lot of lessons learned and it's just been

it's exactly what I needed there's the right time for it as well get the reps in do more work get push get challenged working with Marcus obviously has been a joy as well so it's been a good four solid four years of work been great. And you feel like you

found what you're meant to do? I would say that that is still a process of discovery, I think I think the coaching with the ask you answer was like, I think that's building a lot of the groundwork for where I'm going.

Getting all those reps and was a huge part of the foundation building blocks for becoming a better coach. And I think, I honestly think that is becoming my, that's becoming a note in the history book for me. I think next is what's interesting. I think what that builds towards, I think is what's going to be the thing that was supposed to be doing. You know, I find myself when I'm working with individual high performer, leaders, CEO type people,

and working one to one with them, I feel like I have, I feel like that's when I'm doing my best work. So the coaching side of it is certainly where you think, you know, where I feel like you meant to be. I think the coaching, the foundational coaching skills, art and craft of coaching, all of that stuff is like, is the big overlap. It's the, it's where I place it, right? Where am I, what am I using those skills for and who am I using them with? I think is the, is figuring that out still, I think. Yeah. Yeah. What is it about coaching that you?

you enjoy so much? Well, I think it kind of overlaps with a lot of things that I just enjoyed my whole life. Like, I remember even going back to when it was like a really young manager when I was like 18, 19 years old, having to stand in front of like the team and teach them stuff, health and safety, food safety, whatever it was I was doing at the time. I was like it was a massive overlap with teaching and helping people and bringing out the best in people, bringing out their potential, getting them unblocked. Like I know how useful it's been for me to have somebody like someone that I trust,

someone that I look up to or respect or value their opinion or guidance. You know, it can be tough sometimes, but you know that it's good for you. And I'm that person for other people, which I think is awesome. Now, that's the great thing about being a coach.

I think that a lot of people struggle. A lot of non-high performers or high achievers that I interact with or people who seemingly struggle to break through, right? Let's put it that way. They tend to be the ones that really hesitate on the investment in a coach or the idea of a coach because they feel like somehow if they can't do it themselves. There's like this weird, I don't know, word is not the right word. There is this very limiting or scarcity mindset idea that seems to permeate with the idea.

you have a coach or a mentor or insert whatever term you want to use for whatever particular use case you have. What do you think that is? Like when you come up against someone that maybe maybe they're just, I don't want to call it, picking your brain or getting to know you, but they're very coach hesitant. What are some of the characteristics that you see in these individuals and maybe what are some of the things that start to change their mind if they do actually have a need, right? Assuming that they have the need and can give value from it. What are some of those limiting ideas and then where do you start to see that turn for them? Yes. There's a lot in there actually, I think, because yeah, I think you're right.

Number one is, like, are they looking for a coach or are they looking for someone to tell them the answer to the problem? Yeah. I think that's like a big part of it. The challenges I've had with clients in the past is that they didn't really, they didn't really get, they didn't fully understand that they actually signed up for coaching. What they thought they signed up for was somebody was going to tell them what to do. That's not coaching, that's consulting. And there's a place for both and yes, there's an overlap, but for, you know, so, but they're two different things. And then, so there's that understanding. And then I think the second thing is like, like there's an ego-centric aspect to this as well, like being open,

vulnerable enough to have somebody shine a light on the behaviours. are holding you back from being the best that you can be. That takes some level of vulnerability that some people aren't ready for yet. They haven't come to that place themselves. And I think, I don't know that a coach, it's a coach's job to break that. Like, it can be quite damaging, I think, if you say the wrong thing, sorry, if you say the right thing to the person at the wrong time. and so I think you've got to watch when you're a coach as well you can maybe see it but they aren't ready to hear it

and if they're not ready to hear it then it's not a good this is like a waste of your time going there if they're not ready for it yet too so there can be a lot of fear tied up in that they might have been burned before in the past so they do a lot of like especially this is true I think as well like the very defensive

very unwilling to get feedback from anybody about anything. And again, there could be a whole backstory to reason why that might be for the person in terms of like fear or they've been burned in the past or they've had a bad experience

or they're protecting themselves from something. Maybe they're it could be a ton of stuff, right? Their jobs at risk, they don't, they feel like an imposter, right? So like getting in feedback when you already feel like you don't belong is a challenge, right? So almost like being a coach

a big part of it is I find when you're building a relationship with a client for the first time, you've got to build up their confidence with themselves and with your relationship that you're having as well. So there's a lot of groundwork that has to be done in the beginning to help someone into the position where that relationship blossoms to a place where you can give people very clear and direct feedback that lands in the right place. It might still feel like a gut punch. But it's, it it lands in the right place which is, you know what, you're totally right, I can see it, what do we need to do together to work on this thing? You know, and I think that's the relationship we're looking for. And I would say that I think that's hard to get, like, for all the coaching clients I've had, maybe a handful have been like the very best clients, the ones that really want to work with me for a long time and value that relationship. The other ones are enjoy the coaching, they get a lot from it, but there's a limit to how far I think you can take it

based on where the relationships are. Do you think that they have to get there themselves or that someone can be convinced that they need coaching? Like let's say you're a CEO and your board comes to you and says, look, you're screwing this up. Or hey, you're really good at vision, but the way you handle people. is just terrible and we need you to talk we need to bring in this person and you know they're going to coach you versus a consultant right which i which i want to get back to that difference because i think it's unclear to a lot of people it certainly wasn't as clear to me as you know when i started reading the book you know become an authoritative coach which i want to get to a lot of the stuff in here

i think that was you know really early on that was one of the points that i picked up immediately that i don't know that i had thought about so but let's say it's a coach do you think that real good work can be done if a coach is forced or highly suggested or does the person kind of have to be there themselves? They kind of have to see the problem and want to engage. Or can you massage them there? I think it's both. I think somebody somewhere needs to have, like so for example,

a board, I think you're hitting on something here, which is like the board, okay, someone that a CEO would listen to, right, just put them in that category, right? someone says, look, yes, you're great of this, but you absolutely need to improve in this. We suggest you do X, Y, whatever. And they're like, right, great, let's do that. I think that needs to happen. Someone needs to get radically candid, direct, clear feedback from somebody that they're going to listen to the board.

Perfect. It could be the boss. It could be an advisor. It could be whatever. It could be a bad experience as well. like this is um you know that somebody in the leadership team gave them feedback on their way out the door right it could be just something happened like it was a catacalistic event um but either way i do think that has to happen but i would also say this Ryan is that just because like so for

example and say they'd say they brought me in and i was hired to coach the CEO the first part of that conversation is going to be about me absolutely making sure that they're ready to do this work and i'm not going to just, you know, as a great coach, you're not going to just go in and say, great, you've hired me now, let's get to work. There's going to be a, there's going to be a lot of what are we here to do. Why do you want to do this work? Why is it important to you? What kind of impact will it make if you're able to change in these areas? Right, let's look at it. What is it that you're doing right now? So you'd want to see and maybe even show them the difference between where they are and where they want to get to. So I think it's both and is that there needs to be some sort of radically candid, more. And moment for them. And then when a coach comes into that relationship, the coach is going to spend time making sure that they raise what I call raise the stakes, right, which is making sure that everything that we're about to do is something that they believe is important. It doesn't matter how important it is to me. If they don't think it's important, they aren't going to see it through, they aren't going to do the work, there's not going to be the transformation

that we're looking for. How do you help someone get past imposter syndrome? I feel like in today's world where so much of what we do, even the smallest activity is public, right? They're used to, you know, and I think you're a little younger than me even, but, you know, I very clearly remember a time when you could, you could make mistakes and like people wouldn't really find out. You know what I mean? And I don't mean that in a nefarious way. Like you could try stuff and have it not work and be like, okay, that didn't work. I'll do something else.

Sure. And I think today so many people get hung up, especially trying big things and things that'll garner any kind of, I don't even want to say criticism because I don't think people have as many haters as they want to portray. I think most people just ignore other people. But everything is public, right? So there's like that sense of, and I even have this, right? Like one of my 20, 24 goals is I want to have a book published by a major publishing house.

and I want to make a run at being a New York Times bestseller, right? If I miss, I miss. Cool. But I've been outlining these concepts that I have for a long time. I've done the self-publishing thing. I sold just under 5,000 copies of a self-published book. I feel very happy with that work, even though the cover is like the worst cover in the history of book covers. I was thinking about that today.

Yeah, but that all being said, I and I'm writing every day. I'm creating every day. I'm doing the early work. I'm doing research on this book and I'm really dedicated to this and all this stuff. At the same time, even saying this to you out loud on my own podcast, there's a part of me that's like I hesitated at verbalizing the idea that I think I could write a book that is of the quality to make the New York Times best siloist, right? Like I, you know what I mean?

I've written a book before, multiple podcasts with tens of thousands of downloads every month, you know, all these things that I've done. And just saying it out loud to you, I felt myself hesitate. So, you know, in coaching from the very limited amount that I've even done for people, I know that that tends to be one of the very early things that keeps people, maybe even from engaging with a coach is, am I worthy, am I ready, am I, is the thing I'm trying to take on? is it even a reality or something I deserve that I can hire a coach and spend this money to bring me in and help to get there?

Does that make sense what I'm asking you? How do you work through that? It feels like such a big thing in today's world. Well, yeah, I think all those things are valid. You know, and I think, and somewhat I think it's also healthy. I think it's healthy to check in. Like, if you weren't anxious, a little bit anxious at least, about this massive project that you're undertaking,

and what it means to you, then you would have to ask yourself if you really cared about it at all. So, like, why do it? If you're not going, if it doesn't excite you, right? There's got to be something in there that's driving you as well. So I think there's, these are healthy, right? Because the opposite of that is like the ego takes over and you think you do deserve it and you deserve everything. And, you know, and I don't know that that's a healthy place to be. We all know people like that as well and are not great people to be around most of the time.

So a bit of self-awareness around all this is healthy. but then it can also bridge into, like you said, that anxiety becomes too much that it actually stops you from doing the work, right, as well. A couple of thoughts on this really are the idea that, first of all, the idea of market acceptance, I think as soon as somebody,

like you said, you've got these number of downloads, you've already written a book, you're interviewing me just now, you're interviewing many, many people. People like you, they get you, they like your ideas. You know, so there's a lot of, you've already got a lot of market acceptance, right?

So versus somebody that's maybe doing something for the first time, but like, I don't know if people are probably going to hate it, blah, blah, blah. The best thing you can do is actually put it out there and get someone to support, like your network will come in and say this is really great, probably, is what they're going to say. So as soon as you get your first comments or likes or follows or subscribers, you can actually get what's called market acceptance, right, which gives you confidence, especially in like knowledge, work or expert businesses

like ours where we're really working with our head insights and knowledge market acceptance is really key getting someone to buy your thing whatever it might be. That can really be a confidence boost for most people so when you're working with people for the first time it's actually getting them to put something

out into the world and realize that actually people really like what they've got to say and like what they're doing and then once we can get someone to do something like that I think getting over imposter syndrome is getting into like I think imposter syndrome is

possibly an outcome of perfectionism as well where it's like all or nothing one or zeros there's no grey and honestly in this world today the people that are getting our head are tinkerers and experimenters they are willing to try stuff

right that was we learned we did that thing here's what we learned it was good this was good this was that sucked that sucked never doing that again right let's wrap that all up put it into the next thing and they're just trying stuff, they're experimenting, they're tinkering, versus the person or the group of people who are sitting on great insights and great concepts and great ideas, but never actually get it out into the world because it's not perfect yet.

It doesn't make sense yet. It's still got gaps in it, you know, or whatever, or I still don't know the answer to these bigger questions, whatever it might be. But I think there's, I just think there's like this somewhere in the middle where you can be insightful full knowledge-driven expert and be a tinkerer and an experimenter leading to that market acceptance which helps you build your confidence and know that your ideas are good and that they can get better with input from other people around you as well instead of sitting on the thing and I think that can eradicate a lot of imposter syndrome just from doing that be my take on it

no I completely agree with you you know it's interesting I'm was I'm in the middle of 75 hard and I don't know if you're familiar with that. Hello. Yeah, so two workout. Part of it is two workouts every day, 45 minutes at a minimum. One of them has to be outside. And what I do for my outside workout is I bought a 40-pound ruck vest,

so 20-pound weight in the front, 20-pound the back, and I just go for a walk. And it's actually phenomenal for your abs, your stabilizers, your posture, your knees, your hip. It's a wonderful thing to do. I wouldn't recommend running in it unless you are very advanced. but walking is good for just about everybody. And especially I do probably two to five minutes walking backwards during that trip too.

So just strengthens your strengthens everything. It's wonderful. That being said, I don't know why I went down that. Have a whole. But I was listening to Tim Ferriss podcast. And he was reminiscing with a guy today. And he said and he was talking about this very concept when he started his podcast, which just recently crossed a billion downloads all time, a billion.

When he started his podcast, it started as a six-episode singular series podcast. He recorded six interviews. He released two the first week and I think won the subsequent five weeks or four weeks. And that was it. That was all he was going to do. It was going to be six interviews, which were an add-on. It was a test, but it was really just an add-on to the four-hour work week book that he had done. And then he'd had some other fame, I think the four-hour body had come out of it.

at that point too, but basically it was just kind of building off that and he interviewed some people and it was just going to be six, six episodes. That was it. And it did so well that then he kept going. Now he's got a billion downloads. So my point in sharing that, just listening to you and it kind of popped into my head was like, you know, I think if you were to look at Tim, like someone like Tim Ferriss who, I really love him in a lot of what he does. I think I think he is almost too much of a thinker, as much as that might be an issue. Some of his thoughts around things like having children,

some of his thoughts that he's had around different things, I think are he's thought too much about them. You know what I mean? It's like, I don't know. I know other people like that as well. Yeah, it's like, dude, you know, at some point, you know, but it's funny. So here's a guy who in some aspects of his life is this tinkerer,

experimenter, so much of Tim Ferriss's success has been, just doing shit. Like he bought that TV show or he did that TV show and then it didn't get picked up and he bought it and then he self, you know, put it out on his own and, you know, just all these really amazing things from trying shit and seeing what works and whatever. And then the other side of it is you can see

in other aspects of his life using him as almost like a crucible for this is that, you know, there are certain aspects of his life that he talks about all the time that you can tell he's unhappy about. Like not having a consistent love interest, like not having children yet. Like there are other aspects. of his life, like, I think it really bothers him that he can't go out in certain cities and get, like, mobbed, right?

There are certain aspects of it. So it's like there's certain things that's funny that he doesn't tinker with and that he has overthought. But then there's other things that he does. And you can see where he's been successful and where he seems to be the most happy are the places that he's willing to tinker and experiment. I don't know him beyond his podcast, but armchair quarterbacking, his psychology and what he says, like, you can kind of see that this is probably a universal truth.

for some form of purpose meaning and its derivation happiness is just tinkering and trying shit. And the longer we sit on things that we may like, What's up, guys? Sorry to take you away from the episode, but as you know, we do not run ads on this show. In an exchange for that, I need your help. If you're loving this episode, if you enjoy this podcast, whether you're watching on YouTube or you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, I would love. love for you to subscribe, share, comment if you're on YouTube, leave a rating review if you're on

Spotify or Apple iTunes, et cetera. This helps the show grow. It helps me bring more guests in. We have a tremendous lineup of people coming in, men and women who've done incredible things, sharing their stories around peak performance, leadership, growth, sales. The things that are going to help you grow as a person and grow your business, but they all, check out comments, ratings, reviews. They check out all this information before they come on. So as I reach out to more and more people and want to bring them in and share their stories with you, I need your help. Share the show. Subscribe if you're not subscribed. And I love for you to leave a comment about the show because I read all the comments or if you're on Apple

or Spotify, leave a rating, review of this show. I love you for listening to this show. And I hope you enjoy it listening as much as I do creating the show for you. All right, I'm out of here. Peace. Let's get back to the episode. seem to bring us more meaning purpose or happiness. It doesn't seem to do that. It brings about a fragility in us, I think, which is something I've been thinking a lot about recently, is this idea of how do we move up that, you know,

from fragile to anti-fragile up that spectrum of things. And the way that Talib would say this is like you've got to just reduce the number of things that make you fragile. And, you know, so it's like tinkering an experiment is a way to move up the spectrum, generally speaking, trying things. And yeah, you're right, it's like just got to experiment

with stuff. And I think that's a big part of this is like the real challenge for people who are perfectionists or maybe don't even know that they're perfectionists, but they really do everything has to be right. Everything has to be right first time.

Those are the people that are going to struggle the most. but that makes, even being a perfectionist makes you, brings about a certain amount of fragility. Yeah. It doesn't help you build robustness in the future. You know, so for example, like you could, like, so for example, if you look at my book, right, I wrote my book every week for a year, pretty much. It was like every, it was a letter every week for a year that became mostly the book.

Now, like, if I wanted to, if I was writing a book, like, just think about the, like, what perfectionism comes around just that. project on its own as well. It's like, there's loads of reasons for me not to publish every week. And if it's not perfect, I haven't got the message quite clear yet. But by putting it out and getting some comments on it and getting it edited for its first run, sitting on it for nine months a year coming back to it, reviewing it, adding it. You know what I mean?

It's like the tinkering and the experiment really helped, again, market acceptance. Though there is a book here, people like my ideas. Let's put it all together. Do you know what I mean? It just moves me out of that perfectionism space and into a place where it's actually creating something meaningful. Yeah, I completely agree with you. And I, one, so people know what we're talking about. Annie Fragile is a absolutely tremendous book. It would be, I don't have a must-read list, but it would absolutely be on my top 20 must-read book, must-read books.

Nicholas Nassim Taleb. Absolutely phenomenal. Like, it's a heady book, and you're going to have to work through it. But the concepts are so core to in my long-term success. And if you listen to, you know, what's really interesting is once you read that book, the number of people that you probably hear on other podcasts who reference or use derived ideas from that book is insane. It's insane how many people that like you, if you listen to podcasts or you read books, if you're that kind of person, you're obviously listening to this show, so you probably are, like the number of people, myself included, who take concepts and either straight from the book

or derivations and use them in their daily life or use them in their own work is insane. It's just, it's a core book, in my opinion, to mental models. But getting back to perfectionism, I love that you brought up that perfectionism is actually a fragile characteristic, not an anti-fragile characteristic. And I think that perfectionism comes from two places, ego and insecurity. Because you either believe that your work has to be perfect or is perfect to begin with and therefore any imperfections are not allowed, which would be the ego side, or you're so insecure that somehow you're going to be judged or not given opportunities

if, say, your idea isn't perfect or isn't fully formed that you don't. And neither one of those are true in reality. They're real in your head, but not in reality, which I have found to be the toughest thing to get people to overcome is the realities that exist. And this is where my question comes from to you as the author of authoritative coach and having so much experience is how do you start to talk a client out of the realities in their head, which are real, right? The insecurity that you're feeling is a real thing.

It may, it is not actually a real thing in the world. People are not judging every move you make. They are not going to never read another article you write because you wrote one that has one sentence that's inaccurate or a misspelling or whatever, right? most people, most days, most of the time are thinking about themselves and not you. Therefore, there are a lot of, you know, so how do you start to, I understand you feel this way, and that is your reality. But here's what's actually happening in the world.

How do you start to bridge that gap for people? Yeah, I think there's probably a few different ways to do it. The first thing, though, is that, well, why not you? like that would be the first thing for me is like why do you like so for example thinking about your project Ryan and New York Times bestsellers list publishing a new book it's like look at all the New York Times bestselling books you have read where do you think they came from like it was someone's first Ryan Holiday wrote his first three books while he's working full time for somebody else do you know I mean it's like why did he deserve his book to be so

Great. Like out of the gate. Like, I think anybody, I think it's worth looking at the world around you a little bit. Zooming out, I think the big part of this is like we're two in our own head. So it's like part of the coaching conversation is probably going to be about getting out of your own head and having a look around you and seeing who else did it. And it's like, why not you? Why could this not be you too? This was just another human being. In fact, one of the things I've recognized is that some of the New York Times best selling books are really not that great. Yeah. Right?

And you read them and you think, actually, I could write, I could potentially write a better book than this. That is motivational, I think, in a lot of ways. It's actually just zoom out. Other people have done this. But I think, so that's part one. The second part is, like you talked about it, there's no spotlight, right?

No people do care more about themselves than they care about you, and they're not going to judge you like you think they will. But then I'd say, like, another way to zoom out here is, like, like, you, have you got a friend? who's written a book. And how did you judge them? Like, were you their champion or were you their critic? There's a good chance that you were championing them, right? And that you were really all for them. And then you were one of the first people to buy their book. It's like, that's what people around you are going to behave like too, probably, right? And so there's that.

And then I think the last thing is coming back to what we talked about before, which is to me is raising the stakes issue, impact, importance, right? Why are you doing this? Why is it so important to you, what kind of impact you want to make on the world, what kind of problem are you trying to solve for the world? If you can have a conversation around this, what we get to is the route. It's like, actually,

here's why I'm doing this. This is why this is so meaningful for me. I'm going to write this down on an index car, and put it on my monitor here in front of my computer, and that's going to drive me every single day to do this work because I understand why I'm doing it, why it's so important,

why the world needs it, who, going to be good for and if anything it's really just good for me to get this thing out as well. So I think if we can have a sense of purpose and a sense of mission and a sense of meaning around all of this, it's going to help drive people out into the world to do the thing that they're supposed to do. And that's what coaching is all about. It's what we want for people is for them to do their best work, to do the work that they're supposed to do at their highest potential.

So that would be where I would start. Do you believe in manifesting? Yes. Talk me through that. It feels like a loaded question. No, it's not. It's not. I'll give you some context to that question.

And I shouldn't say believe in. Well, I do believe in it. Yeah. And I have, I have, I just call it like, to me it's like a vivid imagination. I dream about shit all the time. Like, there's one of my most vivid, manifestations was being on a stage in front of an audience that I had brought to a room.

And a couple of years later, here I am. Live event, 200 people. You know, it's like big stage, keynote speakers. It's like, I will draw my life out. Like, imagine it vividly. And like this thing,

I know when I do this and I don't mean this in a cocky, evil way. I just know that if I think deeply about something and I can bring it to life in my head, there's just a really good chance that I'm going to bring that to life somehow in my world. And so that's what manifesting means to me is like just very simply, vivid, real imagination, like a creative imagination, like being able to bring these pictures in my

mind to life. That's what I feel like it is to me. I don't know how that sits with you, but to No, I think that's so... Like, if you don't have that, what, what... Like, I can't imagine a life without it. It's like what drives me all the time. Yeah. Like, that's what drives me. I can't imagine not being able to think about what I want my life to look like.

And then always feeling somewhat like... And this again, it's like a tough place to be when you're... When you have such a vivid imagination. It's like you're always in a tension between where you want to be and where you want to be and where you are right now. Like that tension always exists, right? And it's like that creative tension. And it can be sometimes quite difficult

because you are never quite there yet. You're never quite there because of it. And you have to sit in this place where you're delaying gratification perhaps for years before you get to that thing, before anybody sees the thing, or before anybody appreciates your work. And yet you sit in it anyway

and there's hard days, but you get through. And I think that to me is what manifestation is all about and why it's so absolutely critically important to be able to create visions and manifest them and somehow bring them to life. See, I know, you know, when the secret came out, there was a lot of both positive and negative around that idea. I think that to me, the concept of manifesting is kind of I'm going to just give me this. a little bit of leeway here, but it's kind of analogous to where we are with AI. Five years ago, you used the term AI and everyone thought you were best shit crazy, right? They're like, that doesn't exist. It's machine learning and right, right, right, right.

You know, you couldn't really talk about it because people would look at you like with the stink guy, if you talked about it five years ago. Today, AI is just, oh, yeah, that shit's got some, just sprinkle some AI in it. It'll be better than it is. You know, that's the way everyone talks about it. Well, to me, this concept, because I read an enormous amount and I listen to a lot of podcasts. And, you know, I'm like a voracious consumer of personal development and high achievements, except whatever. Okay.

So what's been interesting is in the last six to nine months, I'd say more than a dozen, either podcast hosts that I listen to or guests that were on their show have brought up this concept. of manifesting. And I had always associated it with, you know, I don't know why, and this isn't my normal way, I normally give things an honest try, but I had kind of written it off as like this foo-foo-y kind of ridiculous concept. And then I started really dig into it. And it's funny, the most simplistic and, I don't know, contrived example or trite example is probably a better way to put it, kind of hit me.

but they're like when you buy a car, right? Like let's say you buy, like I bought a used Chevy Tahoe about a year ago. I got two kids. They play a ton of sports. My truck is constantly filled with gear. I'd always had a pickup truck. And then I was sick for those at home, that slapping sound was me slapping myself in the face because a fly just flew out of my stuff.

That's so you can tell. So long story short, bought this truck. And now all of a sudden, all I see is black Chevy Tahoe's everywhere I go. There's this black Chevy Tahoe, black Chevy Tahoe, before that, I would have never noticed them. Right? And the whole concept behind manifesting in the way that it was described to me and what changed my opinion on this and why I think it's a vital concept to success,

high achievement, and if you're on the coaching side, potentially how you would interact with somebody is that, let's say you want to write a book like I do, right? If I think to myself every day, I'm going to be a bestselling author, right? What do I need to do to get there? Well, I got a one, I got to write. I got a research. I got a network, right?

I got to start reaching out to people, letting them know that it's coming. But if I'm thinking every day, this is who I am, this is who I am, even if I'm not that thing yet, it forces you to see the world in a way that that thing is a reality. It forces you to do that. Just like when you buy a new car and all you see is that car, that car is now in your brain. It's not that there are more Chevy Tahos, black Chevy Tahos on the road. It's that my mind is now open to and essentially tagged for seeing Chevy Tahos because I get into one every single day. So like, and when I started to think about it in that way, it's not necessarily the universe conspiring to get you this thing because I don't actually.

think that the universe gives a shit about us. What I actually think it is instead is us recalibrating how we interact with the universe to make our path to that thing possible. And that completely changed how I viewed it and really has changed how I start my mornings because now I will spend a few minutes every morning thinking about this thing. Not necessarily saying, you know, please send me a best-selling book deal. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about like, if I'm this thing, what do I need to do today? Well, have you written any words?

Have you put any of the thoughts focused on this particular project on the page? Have you reached out to one person who maybe six months from now, nine months or not either could help you or possibly you could be on their podcast, could have what you promote, or could make a connection for you or someone, you know, are you doing these things that have to be done and you just start doing them because your mind is thinking about it. If you say you want to be a bestselling author, but you never spend any time thinking about what it means to be an author or whatever, it's just this dream you have,

it never actually comes true. And that's where manifesting starts to make sense to me. I mean, does that framing? Does that seem reasonable the way I position it? Well, I think it's just like, you know, like you said, it's like a dream, but you've got the dream with the identity and the identity with action. Yeah, right? It's like, it's got to come back to something

that you feel like you can control. Like, that I feel like is the key there. Like, so you can have the big dream, you can have the big vision. Like, yeah, there's tons of people that want to write a book. And there's also, you know, 90%, 95% of those people will never write a book. And then it's like the people that take it that one step further. It's like, I am a writer. Okay, well, what do writers do?

they write okay and that's it right I mean you get to go on but really that's the the nuts and bolts of it so I think I think you're

I think that's perfect that to me seems perfect I never really connected with the whole the secret thing that didn't speak to me at all I remember going to like a secret workshop

went back when years like it could have been 15 years ago or something like that whatever it was and I just did not connect with me in the slightest. I always feel like I need to get to a place where I have,

I'm working that thing somehow. Yeah. Like I'm doing something about it. And I think that maybe is just a mistranslation or a misunderstanding or a mislabel or something like that. But it's that, the idea that you're so focused on something that all the opportunities that you would have otherwise missed flag themselves to you because you're actually

looking for them. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it's like a semantic search in a database if you're a nerd. That's all it is, is you put the tags in place to capture relevant related items that you would have ordered normally walked fast. Yeah, but it's so powerful, though, if you think about it, it's like you can walk through life not looking for anything. Yeah. And maybe get opportunity and you get lucky and stuff like that.

But how about going through life actually deliberately trying to find and the opportunities that align with where you want to go in your life? Yeah. That sounds like a happier place to be. I completely agree with that. I think that there was about a decade of my own life that I just kind of went through. Just kind of went through it, right? I was alive, had some good times, had some bad times. But I just kind of went through it.

There was no purpose. You know what I mean? Like I wasn't trying to be a better really anything. I was just kind of surviving and experiencing. And I don't even mean that. like experiencing in a good way. I just mean I was like, you know, just kind of moving through it. And about half a deck, man, maybe six years ago now, 2017 is really, was a keystone moment in my life. And I started, I changed, you know, I started to set some standards and boundaries and it's still

working on it today, obviously. But man, when you start to say, this is who I am, you know, Like one of the things for me is I am a fit person. That's who I am. I enjoy part of my personal identity. Part of my value structure and standards is I'm a fit person. It's just this. Don't eat cookies and cakes and shit. You know what I mean?

I still will, I'm not 75 hard now so I'm not drinking now, but occasionally have drinks, but not a lot. Certainly not as much as I used to. My diet is pretty regimented, you know, in terms of what I eat. Like because that that is a personal identity issue. And I think for all of us, what we, you know, like people, another one too. People, so an experience I've recently had is I got divorced two years ago. So I think about that and I think about relationships a lot because I haven't had tremendous luck with, use luck as a loose term.

I don't actually think it's luck. But I haven't had really a consistent female connection. sense, you know what I mean, had some relationships or whatever, but nothing that's really stuck. So I think about it a lot, right? And I think about like, okay, I was with a woman for 15 years on a drop of a dime. She was willing to kick me out of her life, right? So obviously something in her life wasn't right. But was I, was I, did I focus day to day? Was part of my personal identity being a great husband. Like that's an honest question that I had to ask myself.

And I'd say that I don't think that it was. I think part of that too was we were not meant to be together. We're actually very good friends. But, you know, like she and I as romantic interests were probably never meant to be together. Okay. But I also have to take personal responsibility for the fact that I, part of my personal identity was being a tremendous dad. And I would put my dad skills up against anybody.

But being a tremendous husband was not one of the things that I focused on. It just wasn't. I did not prioritize that. And I say to myself, well, based on the reality I live in today and the choices I've made in my past, I am glad that I am no longer married to that person because we just wasn't, there wasn't, you know, for a bunch of reasons, it didn't work. But if I had said to myself, my personal identity is to be a tremendous, this partner to this person, what I have made different decisions, what I have maybe set

boundaries in different places, what I have maybe done more work earlier so that maybe that doesn't happen. But you know what I mean? And I think you can, so this can extend to any part of your life. If you want to be a great whatever, you have a hobby that you love, right? You love to ski or you love to play the guitar or you love to whatever your thing is. Do you wake up every day and say to yourself, my identity is I am a great insert the thing, right? Like I'm reading Cam Haynes' book and door. Okay. The dude wakes up every day and says to himself, I'm the greatest bow hunter in the world.

Right. Whether he is or he isn't, right? And I think there's a lot of arguments to say maybe he is, right? But like it is a personal identity to him. So, and this kind of comes back and then I have questions about your book I want to get to you too. We just go down this rabbit hole. I just find this so intriguing, dude, that like, I just find it so intriguing that like because he says to himself, I am the greatest or I will be or I operate, you know, however he says that, I don't want to speak for camp specifically.

I don't know him. But like this, I want to be the best bow hunter in the world. every then decision that he makes during his day is around being a better bowhunter, even the time he schedules time with his family so that he can be there for them because being part of their lives and it isn't very important to him,

but he schedules in a way that also allows him to be a great bowhunter. So he doesn't get to say what so many people say, which is I don't have time for that. Oh, I wish I had time. He makes the time because that is his personal identity. And I feel like that's one of the things that we don't do, right? We just operate through life. And I do it.

I'm doing two 45 minute workouts a day. That's an hour and a half of the day. An hour and a half. The number of people, three dozen at a minimum, have reached out to me and say, I think it's amazing what you're doing, because I'm kind of documenting it on Instagram. It's amazing what you're doing. I wish I had time for that. And I'm like, I'm a single dad who coaches multiple sports teams, who owns and runs a fucking business,

who has other side hobbies and businesses, right? I don't have any more time than you do. You have to make the time because this is my personal identity. So I think I just find that to be, I don't know, I don't know how we got down this rabbit hole, but to me,

this idea of manifestation of... Don't take me down the rabbit hole with you. Yeah. You're going to do. No, I just find it to be, I find this to be so intriguing, dude, for success, you know, these people who you meet

that are so successful, like even our good mutual friend, Marcus Sheridan, right? Like you talk to him, the things that, you know, and it's something I've envied about him forever is that the things he wants to do, he so clearly wants to do them, knows why he wants to do them and then sets a plan to do them. And it is a quality of him that I've envied for a long time that I have struggled to emulate. And he doesn't have any reason to tell anybody either. Yeah. That's the great thing about Marcus is he'll just do it without, like, he won't tell, he doesn't

need tell you, he wouldn't ask you, he's just off doing these things and he doesn't need any validation from anybody. Yeah. You know, he's so good at that as well. Yeah. I think there's a couple of things in here that I just add to before we shift gears. But like, the thing is like identity is one thing, like the type of person that you want to be in the world, right?

So, for example, you want to be a fit person, I want to be a kind person. But then I think there's also like a set of values as well. So for example, I got divorced as well six or seven years ago. And I've had a, I've been married again since. And one of the things I learned was that it wasn't about being a great husband. That was, that was not the top thing. The top thing was the marriage is the most important thing. So it's like, how do you, so for me, it's like the marriage became.

So it wasn't about, you know, like that became the thing, right? the marriage becomes the thing and then it's like I need to work on me for you you need to work on you for me then it's about the kids and then it's about the work and who I want to be of work

and the type of work that I want to do and every decision I make is made through that type of lens it's like right okay so if like work want me to go away and speak for two days somewhere or whatever like right okay well how does this affect my marriage how does this affect my family you know there's a lot

for each person is different but I think identity is one thing like you can be a fit, healthy, kind you could be all of those things and still have like they don't have to sacrifice something else it's really important for it as well

I think like people talk about balance but it's just about values and coming back to like the type of person you want to be and just knowing that even just knowing that there's a part of our life that you're not satisfied with yet is a, you know,

can be enough to just get you working towards whatever that, you know, whatever happiness in that place looks like. It's not easy. I don't think, right? And I think that if anybody, anybody that's tried to get a six pack in their 40s

knows that that's not easy to do keep and maintain, right? It's like, so, you know, for all the people out there that are like, I've had this, I think I feel a lot of like what you're saying resonates with me as well. I remember, like, there's loads of things I've done over the years, but two things

spring to mind is one is, like, I left one of my early jobs that I had at work, I took redundancy, voluntary redundancy, but I was like really young. I was like in my mid-20s or something like that, late 20s. And I was like, oh, I wish I could do that. I've got, and they were like, I wish I could do that, but I've got a mortgage.

And I'm like, I've got a mortgage. Like, I'm doing it. It's like, you're just, you're projecting your own your own limiting beliefs onto me. Like, of course you could do this. If you really had something else that you wanted to do other than this thing, you would apply for the voluntary of Dunnancy and you would be doing what I'm doing.

That's not my fault, but it's nothing to do with me. Another weird one that I think that catches people out is like I've got really, really clear boundaries at work. Like, super clear. And one of the things that I did recently back in April was that I gave 40% of my salary back to go down to, three-day week and people don't really understand

that I could be fully committed to the mission but not work five days nine to five and it's totally possible so it's like these are the things that you start to do like that's a weird that's a thing that decision was an outcome of me going I don't have enough time to do other meaningful

things in my life that I really need to get done write a book, write another book do all of that stuff it's like there's had to find a way and I was like what if I do what if I do part-time hours well nobody else does that does that mean it can't be done

no well let's go ahead and tinker with it it's experiment with it it's been seven months it seems to work so it's like I think there's life is figuring it out right that's what life's all about you're just constantly figuring it out and even when you get into your 40s you realize that

you're not done yet you're still figuring out there's still a lot to learn and yeah i think that you we dude most days i feel like i'm still in my early 20s i mean my body doesn't always feel that way but my brain doesn't know the difference my brain doesn't once you become an adult i feel like your brain is basically the same like yeah you have more experiences you know you have more information to draw off of um but like if you told me if like this, if you could, if this were like magic was real and I could snap my fingers and just put me in a 20 year old body, my brain wouldn't know the difference.

I'd be like, great. Nothing changes up here. You know what I mean? Like, we're, you know, it's all good. So I think that. I love that. I think it's such an important thing, though, Ryan, as odd to skip over it. But like, to have to be young of mind, but not naive, that's, that is key, I think.

And that's the whole deal is, it's, it's, you know, for me, I'm 42 going on 43. I. What exactly this image? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't, I mean, there's so many things that I still want to do. You know what I mean? Like I'm doing this, I'm doing Darren Hardy's living your best year ever this year. I don't know if you've ever seen that or done that.

I've done it like two or three years in a row, yeah. Yeah, I have an accountability partner and we're going to launch. I'm very excited about that. It's detailed. Yeah, going through that, putting the details together. You know, and one of the things that he and I were talking about was creating developing a new hobby that is outside of our core hobbies, right? So my core things are something physical.

I love to ski. I like to work out. I picked up boxing recently, and I really, really love that. But I really just like being physically fit. I like, if you, let's go for a hike. Let's climb a mountain. Let's, you know, I'm down for basically anything except for ultra long things. I don't love running long distances.

I don't like biking. It doesn't matter. But like, okay, so that's kind of that. And then I have my work stuff that I normally love to do. And I have my, my personal life stuff that I, okay, so those are kind of who I am. And we were talking about like, what does it add to your life? When's the last, what we were discussing is when is the last time you picked up a new thing from scratch? Right.

Like, okay, so the example here would be, okay, I've decided that one of my three, So if no one's ever done this before, you basically have three banner goals for the year. Those are the things you're going for. Okay. One of my banner goals is getting a book deal and finishing a manuscript for, with a major publishing house, right? And I've done, I have no problem with self-published. I've just done it before. So this is a new challenge for me.

And there's part of the gatekeeper mentality to me is actually part of the challenge, which is why I'm interested. I'm not in this regard. I want to work through the gatekeepers and experience what that's like, okay. But I've written, I've been writing since I was 20 years old. I've been publishing online since 2004. So like that's not a new hobby for me.

But, you know, like for him, it was surfing, right? He lives near the water, has friends that surf, has never served a day in his life. And he's like, you know what? I have tons of buddies who go out there all the time. I can't go with them when they go. It looks amazing. It's physical.

It kind of fits who I am. I would love to pick this up. And in 2024, I'm going to teach myself with their help, you know, whatever, get a code, whatever I need to do. I'm going to learn how to serve in 2024. Is it new from scratch, no nothing about it other one I've seen on TV. Right. So I was thinking like, when's the last time most of us did that? And not even so much to become an expert at that thing, but to reengage the parts of our brain that we have to fire up.

The pieces of the engine that we have to fire up when we don't know shit about the thing, nothing, right? Because that's a whole different skill set than a refinement on something that we've been doing for a long time. And I think going back to your point that we'll call it childish or whatever brain, you know, keeping that childlike. Childlike, yeah. I feel like it's necessary to every once in a while go back and pick something up from zero and have to feel what it feels like

to absolutely stink at something, to not know what the next thing to do is. I feel like that's a very needed part of our lives that's so we just kind of disregard it because we don't have time or, you know, oh, I'm too old to learn. So for me, I've always wanted to know how to play a musical instrument, always.

I love music. I just, it just never happened in my life, just for whatever reason it never happened. So I was like, you know, I'd love to, I don't know what I want to do yet. I haven't made up my mind. It feels very cliche to learn how to play the guitar, something like that. But I would love to learn just to learn a new skill and to have it be musical because it's

something I never did. So I just think to myself, like these seem like some of the things that, yes, their work, yes, we have to build time in, but I think the positive impact on our brains and then the success we have in other aspects of our life that come out of these things because it force it. It's just like seeing the Tahoe. Let's say I do pick, I'm going to teach myself how to play three chords on a guitar. Let's just say that's what it is, whatever, okay? Going through that process of learning, whatever that takes,

if it takes a month or it takes six months or it takes a year, and I'm sure for people who are good at guitar, you know, oh, it takes a lifetime, Ryan. But like, my point is when I start thinking about things from a beginner's mindset again, I don't just think with a beginner's mindset on just that thing. I start thinking with a beginner's mindset again on all the things that are in my life because I've re-engaged that part of my brain. Whatever part of that, my brain needs to activate to learn something from scratch. Now that, that, we don't, isn't just turn off when you go back to other parts of your life.

Now all of a sudden you start looking at your spouse and going, hey, I kind of haven't told her that she looks great in a while. Or, geez, you know, I've been out my head in my phone the last three nights with the kids. Like, I should be more present there. Like, I'm missing something. You know what I mean? Like, I do feel like these things permeate throughout our lives when we do them and that they're important.

Can't go on full circle there a little bit because when you come back to imposter syndrome as well is exactly the same thing. Like, there's something that, like, so for example, your guy going surfing, right? Nothing's going to be more humbling and express more humility than a wave taking you out on a board. That's just like, there's nothing more metaphorical than like, being floored by the sea.

Yeah. Right? It's like, you know, so like, it's just, it's just the same thing. Like, you learn how to play guitar. You, like, suddenly you have a bit more respect for people that play guitar as because you're like, actually, this is fucking hard. Yeah. Like, I never knew how hard this was going to.

Look at my fingers are bleeding. You're like, suddenly, oh, you know, I want to be, like, so, for example, like, I want to be a New York Times bestseller, like, talking about it's easy. Doing it's really hard. Now you have a newfound respect. For everybody that's ever done this before, they must have worked really hard. It's like the, you know who talks about this is Julia Cameron and the artist's way? Yeah, she says for people like, anybody that wants to do like, oh, you want to write, you're jealous of anybody that's got a play or you are envious of this or that.

And she's like, go do it. And that will eradicate your jealousy. That will eradicate your imposter's under because you'll realize how difficult it actually was to do it. and you'll have more respect for the person and the thing that they did. And that's, again, another sort of like thing that speaks to imposter syndrome is like you've got to get into the weeds.

You've got to do the work because that's where the respect for it actually comes from. Dude, I'm not a respectful of your time and that of the audience. The book has become an authoritative coach. We didn't talk too much about coaching because I want people to go get the book and I wanted them to hear just how incredible a guy you are, how thoughtful you are.

And if you, you know, I'll tell you guys just from reading through the book and I'm actually, you know, I'm kind of going back through some parts here now, even if you don't coach per se in the way of like your business is coaching, I can tell you as a leader, right? I've been taking notes here on stuff to do. You know, there's 17 people that work for rogue risk. I'm thinking through this in the way of how I'm, I actually talk and work through the various. I coach Biddy Basketball and I coach Little League Baseball, right?

Like, you know, in this core idea, and I'll come back to it because it really hit me. And it's probably so far my biggest takeaway of the book. And there's a lot here, guys. So go Amazon. I'll have a link. I'll have a link. But you can also just Google, become an authoritative coach or Chris Marr. But the takeaway for me right at the jump that just hit me throughout the whole book

was this idea of consultants give you the answer, coaches ask questions. And that, you know, that core concept, to me, I think the world needs more coaches and less consultants is what I took away from that idea. I don't think that's your point. I don't know that that was the point you were trying to make and I'm not putting those words on you. But when I heard that, what I said is we really need more people asking questions than we do just spouting off answers.

And I really started to do some self-evaluation and said, as a leader sometimes I can definitely be, I definitely can overindex on consultant, consultant in this case. I'll just laying down answers for people versus asking them questions to help them get there on their own. And I thought that, I think it's just one of the wonderful takeaways in this book. And dude, I'm so glad that you wrote it. I'm so glad that you're doing the work you're doing.

Where can people connect with you more just to get into your ecosystem? Yeah, the authoritativecoach.com.com. That's the best place. really that's where I do all my writing and that's where you can join the community and figure out more about what I'm doing just now. There's a lot of stuff that didn't end up in the book as you will know right from writing is like there's lots of stuff that you don't include or you write the day after it publishes. Yeah yeah. Uh, you know, and it needs to go out to the world. So, you know, I continue writing. I've got a new book that I'm working on for the next year or so.

Um, and I'm sharing that with my core audience as I go. And yeah, just loads of, all my writings around really how to be a bit more coach-like. I think that's really what you're saying there. So be more coach-like in your communication, in your work, whether you're a leader, a manager, or a coach. But I think that's a nice little soundbite there, you know, to be asked more questions because it's very, it means that you don't know the answers. And even when you do know the answer, it's actually better when somebody else comes up with the answer for themselves, because then they own it and then they want to do something about it. And I think if we can be more like that,

then we're going to have more conversations. We're going to have more breakthroughs. We're going to have more transformations with people. If we're always coming up with the answers, we're not looking for anybody else's input, are we? And I think it can shut a lot of people down. So if you want to open up people and you want people to do better work and you want them to find their own potential,

then you're better off having more questions and answers for sure. I love it. Dude, appreciate to have to have. out of you. I'm so glad that you were able to come on the show and it's awesome to reconnect. Let's not make it like seven years between chats. Appreciate the hell out of

you and I wish you nothing but the best my man. Thanks man. Thanks for asking me all. It's been great. Catch you up. I've loved it. I'm going to Shaboons. There's twice as many deals by this time next week. Sound impossible? It's not. With the one call closed system, you'll stop chasing leads

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