First Date Follow Up - The Jubal Show - He Lied in the Escape Room… and That Was the End

Episode Date: May 28, 2025

Zach thought his big swing paid off—an escape room date, drinks afterward, a kiss to cap the night. But two weeks later, he's still waiting to hear from Lilah. So what went wrong? In this episode of First Date Follow Up, we get Lilah on the phone—and her reason for ghosting Zach is surprisingly specific: he lied during the escape room game to get extra clues. That one small deception raised a giant red flag for her. Was it just a harmless game strategy or a glimpse into his character?And wait—what does Lilah’s hair color have to do with anything? This one spirals fast. Ever been ghosted after what you thought was an amazing date? Do you REALLY want that Second Date? The Jubal Show has your back! On First Date Follow Up, we track down the person who disappeared to get the real reason why. Awkward, hilarious, and sometimes downright shocking—First Date Follow Up delivers the truth, whether you want to hear it or not. Will there be a second date or just secondhand embarrassment? Subscribe to The Jubal Show's First Date Follow Up and find out! ➡︎ Get on The Jubal Show with your story - https://thejubalshow.com This is just a tiny piece of The Jubal Show. You can find every podcast we have, including the full show every weekday right here…➡︎ https://thejubalshow.com/podcasts The Jubal Show is everywhere, and also these places: Website ➡︎ https://thejubalshow.com  Instagram ➡︎ https://instagram.com/thejubalshow  X/Twitter ➡︎ https://twitter.com/thejubalshow  Tiktok ➡︎ https://www.tiktok.com/@the.jubal.show Facebook ➡︎ https://facebook.com/thejubalshow  YouTube ➡︎ https://www.youtube.com/@JubalFresh  Support the show: https://the-jubal-show.beehiiv.com/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone. Most of all, his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. How far would he go to cover up what he'd done? The fact that you lied is absolutely horrific. And quite frankly,

I question how many other women are out there that may bring forward allegations in the future. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy, but to me, voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process.

Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to voiceover on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. or wherever you get your podcasts. I've seen a lot of stuff over 30 years, you know, some very despicable crime and things that are kind of tough to wrap your head around. And this ranks right up there in the pantheon of Rhode Island fraudsters.

I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right? And I maximized that while I was lying. Listen to deep cover cover The Truth About Sarah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one.

Small but important ways from tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chaston. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. First date of follow-up by the advocates, injury attorneys online at advocateslaw.com. Normally we do to catch a cheater here, but something

happened yesterday that was so insane. The continuation of yesterday's to catch a cheater will happen next hour. So we figured we'll do a first date follow up here instead. So here's your first day follow up. Zach is on the phone today for a first date follow up and he's getting ghosted by Lila. So in a few minutes we'll call her,

see if she'll tell us why she's ghosting him and maybe get him another date. But first Zach, how long has it been since you heard from Lila? Like maybe two weeks, it's been a minute. Were you trying to hit her up in that time? So I did message her like a few times and I may or may not have sent the memes,

but like good ones, like funny, like jokey ones, not like desperate memes. Okay, not like memes of somebody crying with a phone, wondering why nobody's calling back, like funny memes to try to get a laugh. I mean like somewhere in between those two. Okay. I don't know how that is going to play out, but let's let's go backwards.

Why don't you tell us about the date, Zach? How was it? Um, I mean, I thought the date was fine. I thought everything went well. Um, basically it's actually kind of cool. I thought spice it up. First date's usually boring. Let's actually kind of cool. I thought spice it up, first date's usually boring, let's do an escape room. So it was fun but like it was low-key stressful, you know, like but like teamwork, first date, you know, go

big or go home, right? Take big swings. Got some drinks afterwards, things were obviously more relaxed and less like pressure- filled. Again, good sign that we stayed until the bar closed. Like we were just talking and like, I don't know, she's so like, she's super smart, like annoyingly smart, like in a good way. Like she's funny. I don't know, like even though I was nervous, I was laughing, but it was like not just nervous laughing, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's good.

So it ended there was a kiss, not laughing, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's good. So it ended, there was a kiss, not like, you know, rom-com, like in the rain, like whatever moment. Okay. Solid kiss, more than a peck, less than a make out, you know, so like, I thought that was good. Yeah, who kissed who or was it mutual? I made the first move, you know, but she leaned in, 90 and 10, right?

Like it didn't seem like she was just kissing you because she had to like, yeah, I've been there. No, cause that's like, heck, that's like a pack, right? And then like it's quick. This is more than a pack. Okay. Okay. All right.

And how did you end things with her? Like, what did you, did she say she wanted to see you again? Anything like that? I mean, I didn't specifically say like, what are you doing next week I just was like oh great yeah like you know like I'll call you or whatever you know I'll text you she's like okay cool and then that that was that was it is there anything that happened on the date that could have thrown it off like what went wrong you think? I mean sometimes I can get like competitive when I'm in, you know, like playing games and stuff.

So an escape room, like maybe I was getting to like passionates, I guess. Did you freak out at all? Like a like a huge freak out or something? No, we escaped, which was nice. It wasn't one of those like horror ones where like zombies eat you if you don't get it. It was just like, hey, escape, you know, escape the room. Um, it gets hectic and a little stressful, but like in a good way. So I felt like it's possible that maybe I rubbed it the wrong way by being like, Oh, hurry up, grab that key. And you know, but she was kind of doing the same thing to me. So I don't know.

So like, be honest with yourself. Was it more like giving orders or was it like more of a playful, you do it? No. And then I'll do this. I want to say it was playful, but it might've been orders. I don't know. That's the thing is sometimes you can't see yourself. If I was like standing outside myself, watching maybe, but I'm saying, I know I

can get like that. I just don't know if that's how I came across. Or maybe she read it wrong, you know? Maybe you threw a look and you weren't like annoyed at her, but maybe we're thinking about something and she's like, oh wow, what a, you know what I mean? That happens, yeah. Yeah, that happens.

Maybe, yeah, I don't know. And you're like, give me the key, how stupid are you? I was gonna say on a scale of one to 10, how condescending. Is there even a brain in there? What the heck? Are you just hot? Is that it a brain in there? What the heck? Are you just hot? Is that it?

That would kind of explain a lot. That would probably not get you another date. Most definitely not get you another date. I don't think I did that. Pretty sure I didn't do that. Cool. All right, man, well, we'll play a song, come back, and then call her and see if she'll tell us

why she's ghosting you and maybe get you another date, okay? Appreciate you. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast, Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone. Most of all, his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. Caroline's husband was living another life

behind the scenes. He betrayed his oath to his family and to his community. She said you left bruises, pulled her hair, that type of thing. No. How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done? You're unable to keep track of all your lies, and quite frankly, I question how many other women may bring forward allegations in the future. This season of Betrayal investigates one officer's decades of deception,

lies that left those closest to him questioning everything they thought they knew. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voice over? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind voice over, the movement that exploded in 2024. Voice over is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover,

to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that are being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high. And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room.

You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. She was a decorated veteran, a Marine who saved her comrades, a hero. She was stoic, modest, tough, someone who inspired people. Everyone thought they knew her, until they didn't. I remember sitting on her couch and asking her, is this real?

Is this real? Is this real? Is this real? Is this real? Is this real? I just couldn't wrap my head around what kind of person would do that to another person that was getting treatment, that was dying. This is a story all about trust and about a woman named Sarah Kavanaugh. I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right? And I maximized that while I was lying.

Listen to Deep Cover, The Truth About Sarah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action and that's just one of the things we'll be covering on everybody's business from Bloomberg Businessweek.

I'm Max Chafkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. With guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mulloll will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing.

So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. First date of follow-up. Powered advocates injury attorneys online at advocateslaw.com. If you're just joining us for today's first date follow-up, Zach is on the phone and he's getting ghosted by Lila. So we're about to call her and see if she'll tell us why she's ghosting him and maybe get him another date. But first, Zach, why don't you catch us up on your situation?

Yeah. I mean, she is super gorgeous, super smart. I felt like, okay, let's, you know, like, let's go big. And we went to an escape room first date. I felt like that was a big swing and I thought it went pretty well. We did kiss, we escaped the room, went to drinks afterwards, kiss at the end of the date, ghosting since then. I feel like maybe, maybe if I had to guess, like I know I can get competitive.

So maybe I was a little competitive in the escape room. Maybe I've, you know, I, she felt like I was too pushy. I'm not sure that could potentially be it. I don't know. Okay. Are you ready for us to call her? Yes. All right.

Here we go. Hello. Hi, may I speak to Lila, please? This is Lila. Hi, Lila. How are you? My name is Jubal. I'm calling from a radio show. It's called the Jubal show. Hi, L I speak to Lila please? This is Lila. Hi Lila. How are you? My name is Jubal. I'm calling from a radio show.

It's called The Jubal Show. Hi Lila. I'm Nina also on the show. Hi, and I'm Victoria. Wow. Hi. So this is, wait, so this is one of those radio shows? Yes.

It is. It's one of those. Have you ever listened to The Jubal Show before? I'm sure here and there. I guess I'm not, I don't know, I usually just kind of listen to whatever's on my phone, I guess. Okay, well hopefully it's us sometimes. If it isn't, that'd be cool if you would check it out.

But anyway, we do a segment on our show and it's called the first date follow up. What that is is if you go on a date with somebody and you end up ghosting them, they can email us to get you on the phone and ask why you're ghosting them. So we actually got an email about you from someone who does have us on their phone. A little bit.

Okay. Oh my God. So, so people actually do this. I mean, I posted this on TikTok, but I didn't think this was real. Okay. Yeah. They do actually do this. And you're one of those people right now. How's it feel?

Yay. Congrats. Oh, I don't know. And wait, what is this about? I'm so sorry, what is this about again? Well, you went on a date with a guy named Zach recently. Mm, okay, yeah. And Zach said he really liked you, but he hasn't heard from you since the date.

It's been like two weeks, and he's wondering if you wouldn't mind telling us why you're ghosting him. Oh, I mean, yeah, I'm ghosting him because he's a liar. Oh. Oh, a liar? What was he lying about? You know, well, I mean, I thought the date was fun and cute, but after the date, I just realized that

I can't really trust anything he says. Okay. And hold up, what can't you trust what I said? What if I say that was a lie? It wasn't a lie. Lila, that's Zach. He's actually on the phone listening and wants to talk to you and Oh my god He basically told his whole like Backstory that was not true to the escape room staff to get extra clues

To be able to come up with a lie that that quick is just disturbing to me. Like that's like that's not okay You think the fact that he came up with a lie real quick like in an escape room is like he'll do that all the time Is that what you're saying? I Mean, I can't put it past them like he'll do that all the time is that what you're saying I mean I can't put it past them that fast like it was so fast as a good liar myself she probably has a point here thank you for the self-awareness and for something so small no and so like get free clues like that's crazy wait a minute hold up I got the clues right we needed to get out of the escape room.

Right. Like I'm competitive. That's not I wasn't lying. I didn't lie to them and tell them like something. I don't understand that. I'm not lying. I'm confused. OK, but that's what a liar would say. Well, we got out of the escape room, didn't we? Like, wasn't that what we were supposed to do, yeah, but yeah, but at what cost?

I mean, here we are. Okay. What do you consider a lie? Like if I'm a liar, then you're a liar because you have brown hair. What is that supposed to mean? Because on your dating profile, you have blonde hair. So I guess you're a liar. Not the same thing. Saying that you have one color hair and you don't.

Okay, that's not even close to the same thing, but that's however you want to feel is fine. Whatever liar. He's triggered. Like we called each other names all day, doesn't mean it's real. Lila, would you like to go on another date with Zach, we'll pay for it.

I don't think so. I just don't really think I can trust him, to be honest. Well, was that a lie? So you really mean you do want to go out on a date? Look, I'm sorry you're clearly triggered, but like you did lie. You lied and you know what I'm talking about. I want to know what you're referring to. I think you're talking about that is not lying just by omitting. The truth is not a lot like it's just omitting.

The truth is a lie. Keeping the truth from someone as a lie. That is how a lie is defined. So I'm just supposed to say everything that I know in the entire world to every person that I know to make sure that I'm Not lying by not saying everything in the world Just because I happen to know a lot about that last name like I could be that guy's uncle like Zack I'm sorry knows

Zach, I'm sorry, no second date. Who's that guy? That could be the truth. Like through like Ancestry.com and whatnot. Like that could be the truth. You don't know. I'm saying you don't know either. So it's a lie that you know everything. Okay, but then she said like it was supposed to be.

No, liar, you're lying. I'm not hearing you're lying. I'm not hearing you're lying. No. Dang. No. No. No. Jubel's first date follow-up.

I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone. Most of all, his wife Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. How far would he go to cover up what he'd done? The fact that you lied is absolutely horrific and quite frankly I question how many other women are out there that may bring forward

allegations in the future. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy. But to me, voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now.

Let me hear it. Listen to voiceover on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've seen a lot of stuff over 30 years, you know, some very despicable crime and things that are kind of tough to wrap your head around. And this ranks right up there in the pantheon of Rhode Island fraudsters. I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right? And I maximized that while I was lying. Listen to deep cover The Truth About Sarah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. Small but important ways. From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastin.

And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.