Fitzdog Radio - Phil Hanley - Episode 1119

Episode Date: December 11, 2025

My guest this week is from Canada so the episode is 25% longer than usual. I welcome the wonderful Phil Hanley in studio! Tempo is offering my listeners 60% OFF your first box! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://TempoMeals.com/FITZDOG⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Phil Hanley on Instagram ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@philhanley Watch my special "You Know Me" on YouTube! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://bit.ly/FitzYouKnowMe⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@GREGFITZSHOW⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Instagram ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@GREGFITZSIMMONS⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠FITZDOG.COM⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Fitzdog Radio. I'm your sick host, Greg Fitzsimmons. I've been sick for a while. It's one of those colds just keeps fighting. It's way back in. It's like me and show business. Every time it thinks it's rid of me, fucking show up again, baby.

Anyway, so I didn't do much this weekend. I canceled the podcast I was supposed to do yesterday, and I felt bad about that. So I just watched a lot of football. Fucking Chargers, baby. Beating the birds. Bolts beat the birds. So went out on my son.

Congratulations to my son, Owen, who just got his first real job. he's in New York now. He's been hunting down a job there for six months. He finally got one. He starts January 5th. He's going to be in ready for this tech sales. And he's got a ready for this 401k plan and health benefits. Like what? What happened? My kid whose ass I wiped who I taught how to play baseball has a fucking 401. k accounts now i'm very proud of him he's going to kick ass he's going to be the best best thing this company ever did i won't say the name of the company but it starts with the g and it rhymes with boogel no it's not i don't know the name of the company i'm not going to lie to you it's uh it's not one of the big ones but it's it's apparently a very good company anyway so it's just very weird because you it's the first time since he was born that i have not felt on some level

responsible for his life you know like uh from you know survival mode of like food shelter nutrition to like putting him through college to helping him find a job you know as much as i could I didn't ultimately find him this job. He found it on his own, but I was busting my ass trying to, and now he's got it. And I feel like it's a really bittersweet moment because he doesn't need me anymore. So I'm free of that responsibility, but, and I'm, and he's a more. man now i really feel like that like he's a man but hey still my son look hopefully the economy crashes he gets laid off he has to move back home like a good son should anyway shout out to

ohan um i got to go do corolla tomorrow i hope i'm healed up to do the adam carola show last week i was set to do uh stevo asked me to do his podcast but here's how he asks like uh yeah uh what your address will come to you great so i send him my address and they're supposed to come at 11 o'clock a m to my home in venice beach so at about uh 1115 i get a note uh parking a block away from you because we have the van okay great you have my address right yeah yeah text back yeah yeah yeah okay another 25 minutes goes by i go you close yeah you have to come out to the van i come out to the van so i come out to the van first of all stevo is not in the van stevo's not coming uh the van is the studio so they pull up and you get into this camper

I'm not making this up with a camera that's set up that is zooming Stevo in from a hotel in Texas where he's on the road so I get in the van they close the door it's about 107 degrees and we're on

a not great Zoom connection and so we start the interview and about 15 minutes in, he goes, oh, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. I'm like, what? And he goes, I forgot to record. I forgot to hit record.

And his producer's in the van with me. And there's another guy who's also on the Zoom call, who I think is in yet a different location. And so I said, no sweat. We'll just go. We'll go from here. So we keep going. And his producer goes, no, we think we got that already. We're like, it won't be good, but we've got some version of it.

Anyway, so we keep going. Ten minutes later, he disappears from the Zoom call. I'm like, what happened? They go, just keep talking. So we keep talking for ten minutes, and then he goes, Steveo just texted. He said the internet in his hotel isn't good. So that's it.

That was the interview. I go, and they go, well, you come back and do it again. I go, of course. I fucking love Steveo. and I really want to do this, but just, I want you guys to know, this is exactly what I expected. And you have not let me down. And they said, all right, so we'll do it. I go, we'll do it again, but you have to promise me that you will include a lot of what we just did.

I need that in the first. I need that in the second interview. So anyway, I was supposed to do that. And then I did Burt's this past week. Bert Kreishe's. Me and Mike Gibbons went to Bert Kreisher's house and he's got a show called like something's burning, I think it's called, which Mike and I did once before. And he cooked up food and we talked and Bert has a crew of like 13 people in his home office. Like he's got a house that's just an office, like a big house.

that just has people in it and it's a it's a fucking beehive of activity and they're all sharp and they're all cool and they're all working together to make podcasts and social media just all and i just left there going like and as me and mike are leaving after a two and a half hour podcast they're they wrapped up our podcast as they go bert your next one's a half an hour. So, all right, so not only did he cook the entire meal while being hilarious and talking to us and ate the whole meal with us, drank three whiskeys, and then we were leaving, and the next one was coming in in 20 minutes to do it all over again. Cook another meal, eat another meal, drink three more whiskeys. And I'm just, I was exhausted after one. I was

like, I didn't even fucking host it. I was like, I don't know there is a nuclear reactor in Bird Kreischer that just drives this fucking guy. And it seems effortless. I don't know how the fuck he does it. I can't. I cannot. I don't. I couldn't do what he does for one week. I don't think I could handle one week of his schedule, which is why I am shooting my podcast. in the guest room and not in a separate house. What about this hat, though? What am I wearing? I found this in the back of my closet,

and then I thought I would wear it as a goof, and then I forgot I had it on. All right. Well, it's kind of a captain's hat, I guess. I don't know if I mentioned this on the podcast, but recently two funny things happened, and then we'll get to the interview. Um, I honked, okay, at a Waymo. There was a Waymo in front of me that was not moving and I

honked my horn at an inanimate object. And I realized that is a metaphor for where we are in society right now. That's all. Just wanted to point out that that happened. Also, this happened yesterday. pulled into an Italian restaurant to get a coffee on the way back from the doctor and the guy behind the counter is Italian and he goes, what do you want? And I go, let me get an Americano with room. And he looks at me and he kind of scrunches up his eyes and then he goes, hold on. And he walks away and he goes and he talks to the manager and they're talking back and forth. This is going not for a while, I'm like, how complicated is this? An Americana with room? The espresso machine's right there. Like, what's the, and he comes back, and he's very apologetic, and he's like, I'm so sorry.

We know, we know I have a rum. Rum. We know I have a rum for my Americana with room. And we both realized at the same moment, the misunderstanding, we couldn't fucking stop laughing. We started telling the other people behind me in line. Anyway, funny moment. That's it. So much more I want to talk about, but we'll do it on the next spot. I'm too sick to get deep into this. This weekend, San Francisco punchline December 11th to the 13th.

Then I'll be at the Meadowlands in New Jersey at Bananas, December 26, 27. Then I'm coming to Cleveland, Hilarities, January 8 through 10. Then Atlanta, Sacramento, Philly, Lexington, Houston, Fort Worth. Go to Fitzdog.com, get some tickets, come out, see some live comedy. Also, listen, it's this time of the year where you start to not eat right. You start to not eat balanced meals. You don't have time to shop. You don't have time to cook.

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We're all out of the ordinary. Okay. That's it. All right. Speaking of Out of the Ordinary, my guest today, I spoke with him last week or might have been the week before. Always a guy that I've admired as a comic and never really hung out with. We've done a couple shows together.

We talk about those, but he's a Canadian guy, just a really fucking talented comic, and he's written on stuff. He used to be on Amy Schumer show. He's got a special called Ula La on YouTube that's really strong. He's been on all the late night shows. Anyway, I had a great chat with him. I hope you enjoy my time with Phil Hanley. My guest today, Phil Hanley.

Some people say Hainley, right? Not around me. They don't, man. No. Hanley. Yeah, Hanley. No one says whatever you just said. Sorry.

What a way to start an interview. Sorry, dude. I mean, really. I'm sorry. So what's funny is, like, I've always been a fan of your stand-up. I think you're really smart. I think you've got the kind of edge you don't see from a lot of Canadians. Like, Canadians are so nice.

Like, I think of, like, you know, Harlan Williams and who's the guy who goes like this? Oh, Jeremy Hots. Jeremy Hots. Yeah. Like, nice. Yeah. Sweet. And you have almost like a little bit of a New York edge.

Do you think that's because you moved to New York? I've lived in New York a long time. I think I probably had that before I moved to New York, but it might have developed. I definitely sped up. Moving to New York and being at the cellar and watching like a towel and stuff like that, I definitely go a lot faster. I do shows in Connecticut, Canada is the Connecticut of the world. And I find that sometimes my sarcasm is a bit much for them.

The big thing that I noticed when I moved to the States was in Canada, you could have, you could come off stage and think that might have been the greatest show anyone's ever done. And then people who walk out, they don't even have eye contact. I remember moving to the States and doing like these rough shows when I first started. People are like, great show. And I'd be like, where was that for the first 12 years of my stand-up? Interesting. Yeah, I find people, the Americans are a little more complimentary or outgoing, whereas Canadians I think would probably be like, oh, I don't want to. to bother him or whatever. Yeah, I think that probably you see a difference from state to state

with that as well. Yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, I find that the further I go, like I just did shows in Alaska, the more they will come up and be so a few, like, thankful that you made it all the way to their plays. Totally. Whereas when I started, I would do like Williams Lake in British Columbia, which is like a 12-hour drive from Vancouver, and no one was really... Wait, it was 12 hours from Vancouver? Straight north? Could have been 10. Could have been 10.

But yeah, I remember I did it. It was like one of my first road gigs. I did it with a comic. We drove all the way there. Did the gig. Someone got up to vomit during my set. Has that happened a lot? No, just there.

I also remember being on stage being like, this might be the worst body odor I've ever come in contact with. And then ironically, it was the guy that also had the upset tummy during my set but uh and then driving all the way there and driving all the way back so yeah it was like 10 or 12 hours like there and then back i remember getting home at like six in the morning and just yeah oh no hotel no no i think we no we went to the hotel and we there had been a flood and we were like no this is like you're gonna get like mold in your lungs no way really yeah yeah they're rough gigs when you start in british columbia and how much were you getting paid oh my i mean it would

be definitely under three hundred dollars yeah yeah yeah it's covered like yeah some of your gas Yeah. Wow. Yeah. But I mean, what's a town like that? I mean, I'm just trying to picture eight hours north of Vancouver. Like what? It's north.

Yeah, it's, I mean, because you go, a lot of gigs that you do in Vancouver, you go through the Rockies. And as a non-mountain person, you cannot predict what's going to happen when you get to the top. It can be the craziest weather in the world. Right, right. So there would be a lot of, like, long drives and then rough gigs. Yeah. Now, you came in and you reminded me about a gig that we did. It was New Year's Eve probably 10, 12 years ago. I'm so bad at guessing when stand up was. It's really blurry. But it was a special night for me. Yeah, that was a fucking cool lineup. It was at Cobbs in San Francisco, which I don't love. It's a rock club, so it doesn't. But that night, it was really good.

It was me, you, Beth Stelling, and Emo Phillips. And was there anybody else on the gig? There was someone else and I feel so bad. I think it was a, I forgot the person's name, but I was thinking about it today on my way here. And I was like, he was such a nice guy. I think he did warm up for the Tonight Show maybe. Oh, Jimmy Pardo? No, it wasn't, no, it wasn't Jimmy Pardo.

Well, either way, it was one of those fun nights and I got to meet Emo who, I mean, you're younger than me, but when I was a kid, Emo was like, it. Like, there was like this, it was like, do you remember comic relief? Did they play that in Canada? I don't think we got comic relief. I knew Emo, and I had seen, I had, like, bought ticket. Anytime you were on a show with someone that you'd paid to see. Yeah, right.

So I was stoked that you were on the show, and I was stoked that Emo Phillips was on the show. And I had heard so much stories about emo and, yeah, I remember him when he had that, like, or him, he might still have that haircut. Yeah, the, the, uh, is. page boy page boy yeah yeah but yeah I was that show was great and he was just like the guy he got there like two days early and he had this eccentric wife and he is like people go like oh he's a really nice guy no emo is like syrup he is gentle yeah he's one of those curious guys he wants to know everything about you yeah and he's like the most vulnerable human being yeah he's

really open yeah and so funny do you remember he was doing he was doing he He had some thing, some bit that night where he had like a trench coat or something. He was taking his coat off and putting it in his pocket throughout the set. It was so good. Yeah, he was great. That was a fun night. Cobbs has grown on me. Yeah.

As far as rock clubs go, I think it's, it feels pretty intimate. Like some rock clubs where the stage is like super high. Right, right. I just played somewhere and I was like, oh, who was here last? They're like, oh, cool. Yeah. Is that a band? Yeah.

it's like then they like cut each other they're like they're supposed to be oh my friends from home are going to be mad if i don't get it right they're supposed to be from like like a thousand years ago oh they're like they wear costumes and there's a lot of blood are they from scandinavia are they from scandinavia no they're from i don't know they're from somewhere in the stage but yeah they wear like these you should look they wear costumes and they like decapitate people and stuff like that and you were after that yeah very yeah quite a different performance right right um so you got this book how long did it take you to write it i mean for most no yeah really yeah i'm dyslexic it was like it takes me like six months to write a text yeah

did you start at the back and write i started yeah i started with acknowledgements and then no i well i i i played i like i started with the idea and it was like when they approached me When my manager was like, you know, there was interest in if you want to write a book about dyslexia. And it took me, I like started and I made the proposal like tight, like a bit. And then so that. How many pages you think the proposal was? The proposal was probably maybe like four or five pages, but it was really tight. And then that, like I worked on that for like four years.

But not just. Honestly. Four pages? Well, it started. Comedians, man. We are so efficient. I started. But I started.

and I made all these lists. I made a list about like everyone I'd ever met. Like I tried to, and then, so I just tried to jar my memory. And then once I started writing, then yeah. But I got quicker. I remember my editor, the first chapter took me four and a half months. Yeah. And then by the end, I was writing chapters in about two and a half weeks.

So I got quicker eventually. And one thing I would have, I wrote a book and it took me, I sold it to Simon Schuster, like, based on my proposal was like 20 pages. Holy, whoa. So I had a really good outline going, but the way I did it, and I wish I had known you before, because this is the advice I give anybody writing a book, is I had a tape recorder and I used to go to this park, and I knew, I mean, look, it's a collection of stories. Yeah.

What's a book? It's story. So I knew, I had my outline of what the stories were. Yeah. And then I would just walk and I would tell the story. And then, you know, you got that transcribe software where I would plug it into my computer. it would transcribe it. Now I had an ugly first draft.

Oh, that's great. And then I just had to correct and punch up and smooth over. Yeah. And I got stuck. I had a year to write the book, and I spent nine months furiously masturbating. I think I ran out of sperm at one point. Wow. Yeah.

I hope that's in the book. The sperm is in the book, yeah. It's like a scratch and sniff. And then I stumbled on this idea of recording the stories. and then I got it done. I feel like those times, though, that, like, the nine months of, not necessarily the masturbation, but that, like, when you're putting it off and it's somewhere, yeah. And then I find that with bits, you know what I mean?

Everyone's always freaking out right before they do their hour. Yeah, I got to get 10 minutes or whatever. But you've been freaking out about it long enough that it does somehow come out. Right, right, right. No, 100% true. Yeah, there's so much subconscious stuff that's happening. and organizing and then hopefully you have an editor that helps you kind of like hone in on what the book is because you know you can get especially with us like comedians look at a comedy set

there is no organization to it it's just a series of tangents for an hour yeah and then yeah you put i have an order to it and it makes sense to me but it's like it's just some weird thing that you've put together. Yeah. But somehow, it's weird how you develop an instinct like this should go first and this should follow that and this should follow. And you kind of figure it out. And then there's a rare occasion where you forget a bit and then you switch the order

and then you're like, oh, that works even better. But generally, I feel like my instinct is right. Like I'll try to move something to the beginning and it'll be something that, like, does really well at 15 minutes. But if I open with it, it's just like tanking. Right. You know? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And there's so many theories about, like, you know, like I talked about, you have an edge. And I think sometimes when you come out and you're coming with the really edgy stuff right up front, sometimes that's a risk reward. Sometimes you can get them or other, sometimes you're in the Midwest and they hear that and they just go like. And then you're fighting to get them the rest of the set. Yeah. So like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like fishing, you know. You could dangle out the bait. you try to get them to come towards you a little bit, you know,

and you get them on and then you fucking, you know, literally reel them in. It's the phrase you hear in show business. Yeah, that's true. You're trying to reel them in. But like it the best is like Louis C.K. told me sometimes take your closing bit and open with it. That's wild. And then it forces you to come up with a new closing bit.

Yeah. Which is the main reason you do it. Yeah. But also like, you know, now you're coming out of the gate. just killer. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I've seen the interviews when he talks about stuff like that, you're just like, oh, my goodness. Oh, I mean, he just wrote a book, but the book he needs to write is about the philosophy of stand-up comedy. Because, like, especially when you see him on with good comics, you know, like when he did, who did I just see him on with? Was it Sam Morrell maybe? Did he do Sam and Mark's podcast recently? I'm not sure. He did everybody's because of his book tour, but he got into some stuff that was just.

really like, you know, I just talked to him on the phone this weekend for two and a half hours. Wow. I called him. I was on a walk. So we started together in Boston. We've been tight all these years. We lived in Venice to get a block from each other, raised our kids together. So I just called him up because I was on a walk.

And I was like, all right, I got, I never call people back, you know. So I was like, all right, I got a half an hour. I call Lily. And then you just start talking to him. And he is just like, I think also we are our souls are merged. after having lived such similar lives. Yeah. But also, like, I'm just fascinated by his theories on everything in life.

It's always a take on it you never thought of before. And then he says it, and it makes perfect sense. Yeah, he did. I know I watched clips from, he did bad friends with Andrew and Bobby. And Bobby was talking about doing his special. And Lou was giving him him advice. And it was, yeah, it was interesting. And those guys were on the edges of their seats.

like they had their pens out like transcribing what you're saying yeah who's your sort of like did you ever have like a mentor or somebody that no i never did you hear people talk about their i know i never really did at all do you want me to mentor you i mean that's why i'm here today yeah so did you have like uh do you have like a soulmate in comedy that you came up with that you stayed close with uh yeah i have i have people in vancouver that I talk to. It's so funny,

the people that, like, just people that I started with in Vancouver, there's a Canadian comic named Graham Clark, and it's like, to this day,

he's the most prolific comic, you know, and I'll be at the cellar and you see all these guys, but he would have new stuff every single week. There's a lot of great comics in Vancouver when I started.

Oh my God. Yeah, no, it's amazing. The comedy scene, when I go up there, I never bring an opener. I was like, no, no, no.

I want to meet the local people because they're unbelievable. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot. When I started, Zach Galfinacus was recording, or was in a TV show. So he would do kind of the alt show and like the small, like it wasn't like an open mic, but it was like a book show, but there'd be sometimes 12 people in the crowd on this Mexican restaurant. And he'd come every Wednesday.

And it was like, yeah, super inspiring. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Zach's incredible. He's really like, he's very particular about where he performs. Like it can never be a mainstream anything. Like he won't come to the. the comedy store or the improv. Oh, really?

But, like, he likes Largo. He'll do Largo a lot, you know. So how does your, now, are you worried about ICE right now? I'm, I'm an American citizen who's been two weeks. Oh. Yeah. Congrats. Two weeks?

Yeah, two weeks. Two weeks ago. Whoa. Two weeks ago, it'll be tomorrow, yeah. Dude, you snuck in because he's, like, freezing all immigration. Oh, really? Yeah. I, I had, yeah, it took so long because I had to get two work visas, then a green card.

and then I wrote this citizenship test. And then, yeah, I got sworn in maybe, when did I get, yeah, I got sworn in two weeks ago, but I passed the test in August so then I was just waiting for a date. But then the government shut down and all this stuff. Oh, my God. So I finally got my U.S. passport. Wow, congratulations, man.

Welcome. Yeah, it felt big. Did you have to take a test? Was there a- Yeah, we did the test. All right, I'm going to do a test for you right now. See, I warn you, and I got 100% on my test. But I'm very, I know American history to the selective 100 questions that they have. All right, I'll stay within those.

Okay, if you know those. Who is the 14th president of the United States? That was not one of the questions. I'm so sorry. Abraham Lincoln. Oh, really? Okay. Well, yeah.

Can I give you one of the questions? Yeah. Okay. Who is the state representative of New York? Well, there's more than one representative. who is one of one of one of them

would be Kyle McGovern oh really yeah I didn't know that one what about okay who was the president

during World War I World War I World War I was 1970 17 oh it was Truman

Harry S. Truman Woodrow Wilson Really? Yeah My dad My dad is a Canadian and always wanted to move to the States and he knew

I would go through because I You do the hundred You do a practice test of 100 Questions And some I kept getting wrong And that was one And he was like

Just remember the W's World War I Yeah All right I'm going to Let's go back and forth Oh okay But I'll only know

The hundred that they Okay Stop Just take the fucking test This is such a dyslexic guy right now, making excuses before the test. Okay, okay. What are the three branches of government?

This is a great question. This is one of the 100. Yeah. Legislative, executive. That's the one that Trump is misusing the most right now. Going after his enemies with the, what branch? Oh, judicial. Yeah. Well, that was a good.

That is part of the 100 questions. Yeah, that was good. Yeah, I really did well on that. Okay, your turn. Oh, another one? Yeah. Who, and I hope I get this right, who was General and World War II and then also President?

World War II and then President. Eisenhower. I believe so. Yeah, Eisenhower. I believe so I was trying to think I'm throwing you out of the country I'm in a narc on you

but you memorize the you memorize the questions and then they ask you and when I got I was so nervous and I worked on it four months there's an app

and then I would get there's like the actual questions and I get people to to quiz me and I got I was getting 100% as a dyslexic special ed student I'd never gotten 100% on anything and then

they only ask you you have to get six at a 10 right that's it that's it so i got the first six right and it's random like she's got an ipad and she's clicking but it was like easy it was like who's the president now who's it was it was very but do they tell you in advance what the hundred questions are going to be yep so you have the hundred questions so i got although and then i just got lucky and then you had to write a sentence in english yeah i wrote uh california has the most people was my sentence and I said to the woman I go I'm dyslexic I don't know if I'm going to get California but I nailed the spelling of California and then yeah they ask you you know questions about if you would you know your loyalty to the states and stuff like that and do you have to

renown are you a dual citizen or do you have to renounce your Canadian? No you don't have to I know you don't have to renounce it no so if we invade Canada I'd be torn no it's a tough one no yeah I mean, I pledged to, yeah. You pledged to invade other countries, right? Well, they say if you need to take up arms and I'm like, you don't want, this is not my skill set. Yeah. I mean, I'd volunteer. I'd entertain the troops.

I think I'd be better at. Oh, right. Yeah, but I didn't say that. I didn't say that to the woman. Dude, Bob Hope had the greatest gig, you know, during World War, I guess it was during World War, too. He was running around. Was it or was that the Korean War? Bob Hope.

I feel like he was the Korean War Entertainment troops When did When did Bob Hope I think maybe Vietnam and Korea Right Yeah So

But he would bring You know Well no It would have been Korea Because I know that he I just watched a documentary Last night About Jane Mansfield

Who Is I don't know if you know her But she was like a big Like a Marilyn Monroe type Yeah okay Like a, like, I, well, let me get into that and then I'll double back to Bob Hope. But she, um, she, her father died when she was three. Mother was destitute, lived in Texas.

She learned four languages, became a master violinist and pianist. Whoa. Then she, uh, got pregnant at 16, had a kid, and then moved out to L.A. Because she wanted to be an actress. Like, just imagine. being 16 with a fucking kid with a deadbeat mom and then she moves to California

to be an actress and you know bounces around a little bit and then gets discovered and they go no no no dye the hair she's huge tits and beautiful face like Marilyn dye the hair blonde tighter clothing

and all of a sudden she gets a contract with MGM and she becomes like one of the biggest stars in Hollywood like like the most photographed woman in America Wow. And, but anyway, so she's one of these people that Bob Hope would bring on tour and they would go do U.S.O. shows. And it's just so different than the way it is today because she would walk into the audience and sit on a soldier's lap and rub his face and kiss his head. And they weren't groping her or fingering her the way they would today.

You know, like if you bought Scarlet Johansson over there, they would be Third Bay City over there. in wherever where are they where are we fighting now you that wasn't also that wasn't on the test no venezuel yeah but um anyway so have you done shows for the troops in the past no i remember there were people that no i've never done that no but uh no i haven't no have you of course oh really never overseas though they would want they asked me to go overseas a couple times i was like Look, I got little kids. I'm not getting fun. I'm not dying in Iraq.

Yeah. Well, I'm a patriot, but I, um, no, I've never been asked, but I remember people, there was a time I totally what, like there was, I remember, uh, people have, you know, I remember people doing that. I remember people going over and, uh, yeah. Yeah. One of my, for the Canadian troops or for the American troops? Uh, I don't know, Canadians that went over, but I remember when I first moved to the

States, people were doing it. But this is one of my favorite showbiz stories. And this isn't my story to tell, but this is like my favorite showbiz story. One of them was a tell was over entertaining the troops. Yeah, he did a lot of that. No. So he was over entertaining the troops, and it was Christmas, and they got a chance to use one of those, like, I'm sure they have, like, they just use an iPhone now. But it was back when they had those, you know, those, like, crazy mobile phones.

Yeah, with the thing, and they're like, and everyone got the phone to call the home on Christmas. Oh, nice. So they passed Atal the phone, and he phoned Estabye. to give her her his avails she's the booker at the comedy cell yeah so we phoned i'm available monday tuesday yeah that's great yeah it's one of my favorite uh no you also like you kind of bomb at those shows usually you either bomb or you kill but i've done a lot of state side shows for the troops and uh there's things you can say and you can't if you want to destroy you make fun of the brass.

Oh, okay. Yeah, you make fun of the generals or the whoever, I don't know, military terms for, you know, captains. Yeah. And then they go nuts. Oh, really? But, like, you can't do anything that's really political. It's very uptight about what they'll let you say.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I could, yeah, sometimes you're performing, I'll be performing and there'll be like someone in the military in the, in the, And, God, that really puts into perspective. You're like, I'm so nervous to try this new bit. And then you're like, oh, God, I really have nothing to worry about. I know.

So what's going on with the tariffs now with Canada? Like, I heard that didn't your prime minister just come out and say, like, we're boycotting the United States or something? I'm not up to, I haven't been home because while I was going through all my immigration stuff. Yeah. was um so i've only i was only last time i was home was i played vancouver in march and the with the every commercial when i was home every commercial mentioned the tariffs like so i think

canadians were uh quite hurt with the tariffs and stuff like that because hurt hurt financially or emotional i mean probably financially but i i just feel like we're so we're so so we're so so i'm like brothers even more like if you go like i feel like i feel like Canada and the States is more similar than like if you're in like Spain and you go to Portugal or so like we're so yeah so when I was home like every commercial was like a riff or a some jab at the tariffs like it would be like Tim Horton's da da da da da da da something something tariffs. I went up there. I did a gig in Toronto like right after the tariffs started like two weeks after they started and I was like all right no one's showing up to my show. This is so insulting. The president coming out and saying they should be the 51st state. And so I just walked on stage and I go, I think we should be the 13th province, this 12, right? That wasn't on the test.

But yeah. Ah, you don't even know your own country. Oh, my God. I'm not in the territories. You know what I mean? Let's not get into the whole thing. There's a lot bad going on. Whatever.

But I said that and I got them on my side right away. That's great. And people actually showed up. But you know that club in Toronto. Which one? The comedy bar, no, what is it? Oh, comedy. Yeah.

Oh, comedy bar. Yeah, yeah. I've only done a short set there, but people love it. So great. So great. Yeah, I love Canadian crowds. I miss. I feel as I, I mean, I love the States and I worked.

My dream was to do stand-up comedy in the States. Yeah. And starting in an open mic in Canada, there's so many steps to do it. Yeah. You know, to get a work visa and all that stuff. But, yeah, I mean, I, I, Yeah, I'm excited. I'll go home for Christmas, but, yeah.

But I look at your tour schedule, and I pity you because your Canadian comics, obviously, you do a lot of dates up there, but January, you're like, you're like in the Arctic tundra. It's wild. I'm playing places. I get so stoked to play Canada, but the, yeah, my January, the routing is wild. I play. I'll tell you right now.

You're going to, you're going to Winnipeg and Victoria. Winnipeg. No, but Winnipeg. So I'm playing Winnipeg, I believe it's January 8th. Oh, that's going to be brutal. And people don't think of it, but it is, pardon me, it's going to be nuts. I mean, I think Winnipeg is like the coldest, like, city on the planet. Yeah. I could just be speaking of experience or I could have maybe heard that. But it's, like, it is chilly. It'll be crazy. And then Victoria is so far away.

Yeah. Well, Victoria's next to Vancouver. Yeah. It's like playing Minneapolis and Seattle. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I guess just the way the routing goes. Is that a drive? You get a drive that? Oh, God, no.

No, that would be, I'll fly. I was supposed to play somewhere else in between, but I took a, yeah. Mental health break? No, I just took a day just because I know flying out of Winnipeg and January is going to be. Then you got Ontario, Ottawa, Halifax. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, he's really got to talk to your agent and be like, you know, there's

Florida's got a lot of rooms. I'm playing Florida actually later in the year a lot. But, no, I love, I was, I, I, my, I love my age, but. William Morris. Yeah, Tommy. But, uh, I, I mean, I did a year. When I first moved to the States, I remember I did a full year without a road gig. So without a single road booking, like just, I was just at the cellar every night, which was fun, but I was like, how'd you pay the rent?

Oh, boy. Yeah, just barely. So now I'm on the road almost every weekend and I'm so grateful. No, your schedule is insane. Yeah. Look, it's very hard when you go on the road and it's unending because your friendship start to suffer, you know, those regular like routines like, hey, we all get together Tommy's on Sunday and watch football or whatever.

Like, you lose those things that keep you sane. Yeah, I try, like, I just did four weeks where I was on the West Coast on the weekend and then would fly back to New York and then I just did that four times. Yeah. But, I mean, it's so, it's just so funny because it was that year where I didn't. get any bookings if i if that year i was working like consistently right i would be pretty like grumpy right now yeah but because i had that year i'm so grateful that and i went so many years where people weren't really coming out to the shows right uh is it is like a nice way of saying

it so now when people are here i'm just like so stoked and so grateful that people are coming to the shows i have depression and when i go on the road too much i have i have days where i wake up at 1 o'clock and I don't even turn the lights on and I sit in the room and I sit there going how am I possibly going to stand on the stage in front of hundreds of people and act like I'm the most fun guy in the room I mean that's what's so difficult about do you get any depression on the road I mean I have I talk about it in my book I have had depression before but I really don't at the moment I'm like yeah I guess it's just that I'm just I'm so happy to be working and for people to be coming to the shows and the shows are fun

and I bring two people on the road that I really like. It makes a world a difference. Right. And now I like, you know, I'll splurge a little bit and stay somewhere and I, like, the way I look at it is I'm like, what are the little things that I can do to make this fun? And they all add up and I fly enough

so I get upgraded and stuff like that. So that really, really helps. Now, do you fly your openers in with your own money? Yes. Yeah, that starts to add up, especially two of them. Yeah, that does add up. Some, I have an opener that's based in Chicago that, uh, who's that?

Michael Myers, super funny dude. I think I know. Um, and, uh, but he, he, he drives to a lot of gigs because he's based in Chicago and a lot of his drive. So that saves money. But it, yeah, it's expensive because it's like three tickets and three hotels.

Yeah. But it helps and it makes it that I can keep going. Now, absolutely. Absolutely. Mental health, that's crucial. I, yeah, I have said when I bring somebody, I don't always bring somebody when I do, it's always a better week. And it's not like we're like, hey, let's get lunch and then we'll get dinner. Like, you may not even spend that much time with them. No, I totally, I like, I try to get as much sleep as I can. I meditate.

I try to work out. Like, I do all the things. I don't drink when I'm on the road, which really helps. I mean, being in that hotel room by yourself Saturday, hung over, you just be like, what? am I doing? So I try to be as healthy as I can. And yeah, it's that you're not working. I really I'm pretty. I mean, I'm excited when I get to go home. Yeah. But yeah, I'm so. And also if you, if you try, like I always force myself to do something new or to do, I improvise a lot in between my jokes and that helps too because it's like legitimately fun. Yeah. You know. So it keeps you in the

moment. Yeah, totally. No, that's one of the things that can cause depression for me is if I'm on the road. I do crowd work as well, and it really does lighten it up. But when I find myself bored of my own material, that's what can kick the depression. Because then I go, then why am I even here? If I'm not enjoying it. Yeah. And it's hard, like even if just a new line, you know what I mean? Right.

And also, because I do talk a lot about dyslexia, I have people that either have dyslexic kids or special ed teachers or people that are dyslexia. lexic that are like happy to hear someone talk about or whatever yeah so every whenever i feel myself being like oh god or whatever i'll meet someone and it'll really like kind of like make me feel good or whatever i'll meet i meet a lot of cool people on the road and i'm also a big grateful dead fan and people will bring me dead stuff oh nice it's like i always have like a really wholesome heartwarming experience kind of every weekend or every night of the thing so i'm pretty i'm pretty happy working yeah that's nice and i had

Another thing that helped me was I had, I lived in the East Village for like seven years, something like that. What street? East 6th and Avenue A. Oh, six floor. Topkins Square Park right there. But it was a six floor walk-up. So I carried my bags up and down those stairs. Sixth floor walkout?

I lived in one of those on Barbary Street. Yeah. And carrying your bags. Thursday morning, five going to JFK and lugging. Yeah. And I did that for years. Did you sell merch? Did you have like an extra?

a suitcase with t-shirts in it? My opener bring no I just started selling merch but my opener it deals with that but um and she has an elevator but uh yeah so and then now I move to a place that's has an elevator and it's so I've I've like me also that apartment on E6 had no heat in the bathroom and no heat in the bedroom so that yeah and that may go on the road great because you walk in you're like wow this place has got heat baby how much you pay for rent I started I paid 1750 and then it kept for no heat yeah but i mean that was the cheapest place in town when i moved in uh and it's a half fridge it was pretty rustic you must have done a lot of spots in town to afford your rent on your own i would i i would do i was yeah i would do a lot of seller spots and i would

still do uh no the year that i didn't work i lived in east harlem oh but um yeah so it was cheaper there but so there was a lot i have a lot of factors a lot of things where i'm just kind of grateful to no i get that And I really do think the openers is one of the biggest things. Yeah, you're happy to see people. And again, I don't do, like, I see people on Instagram and they're on the road and they're hiking and playing pickleball and going to the beach during the day. And I'm like, I would be so exhausted on stage. So I'm like low-key, eat healthy, exercise a little bit.

Yep. Time my coffee. Like, I have a real regiment to doing it. 8.30, noon, and 3 o'clock. Like within 10 minutes, those are my coffees on the room. Oh, really? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I, when I'm on the road, I don't see 8.30.

I'll sleep in, coffee, try to, you know, walk around, blah, blah, blah. But then, and then you show up at the shows, and I'm so happy to see the people that are, you know, no, if I'm in Atlanta and I got friends there, they're like, hey, man, you want to come out, we're going to go on a hike, and then we'll have dinner. I'm like, no to all of that. Like, after the show, we'll hang out for a little while. Absolutely, yeah. But I don't, I need my, it's hard to explain to people, but almost every comic I know.

feels the same way about it like you just it's not that you're sitting there pouring over your notes or you're you know it's just that you need to be in a very neutral space before you walk on it's i can't make a hard turn from the social energy of being at a dinner to being the alpha in the room on stage who's kind of cool kind of smart kind of over it like you you can't ever seem like you want it too much. It's a very specific mood you need to be on to make it work. And that has to come from neutral. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'm very, very low-key on the road during the day. So let me ask you. I have a bunch of questions I wanted to ask you. This is going really well, by the way. Oh, good. Yeah. Okay. I was excited to be here.

I was worried because last night My mom is staying with us She came for Thanksgiving and she has not left Oh, it's beautiful And so there's a house in the back We have a back house And she's staying in the back house Wow, see, God, a New York comic talking to an L.A. comic

I mean, we're barely It's not even living what we do over there Compared to you guys, you've got automobiles and backhouses It's beautiful. Yeah, it's like an estate. Yeah. No, it's Venice. It's small, but there's a little structure.

That's amazing. So anyway, she's staying back there, and then my daughter left the door open, and we had a rat issue last year, and we caught a bunch in the yard. They were running across the yard, so we set traps, and we caught a bunch, and it just stopped. Wait, did you, if a rat is caught, are you phoning a professional? No, I handle my business. Are you serious? I'm like a Canadian, yeah, yeah.

Oh, my God. I don't like it. You're trapping rats. I hate it. I don't trap them. I snap them. So it's like a big mouse trap? Yeah.

I'm so freaked out by rats. It's true me out. I hate because I'm from New York. So I used to urban, nasty, gross third rail rats. Oh, when I lived on after the pandemic in the East Village. East Village has more rats than anywhere in the city. Because the pandemic was the perfect sort of interrupt your story. But I just have to get this out of my soul.

No, it's fine. I thought the interview was going really well, and then you said interrupting. Well, you did mispronounce my name at the beginning. But no, the rats at the, because the, so there's no, the restaurants are not operating anymore. Yeah. The restaurants are not paying an exterminator to come every Wednesday and Friday. So the rats came out and it would like, I would.

And the garbage collection. Yes, on Mondays, I would be coming home from the cellar and it would dawn on me. You'd get that whiff of the garbage truck. And I'd be like, oh my, this is like an episode of like the living dead. Because you're walking down. I remember, like, seeing, I was crossing. I'd go, like, this side of the block has less restaurants, so there'll be less rats there.

And then you cross, you know what I mean? And I remember crossing over. Dude, it was so crazy. I remember crossing over. I almost stepped on a dead rat on the street. And then I got across the street and one hit my foot. Oh. Yeah.

And I'm like, do I, do I leave my shoe here and just hop home? Right. You got rat on your shoe. Right. And they hit your, and another one, same period of time, hit my leg. And it felt like my ex-girlfriend had like a small dog. Yeah. But like 16 pounds.

And it like, it'll move you. Yeah. But please. So you, have you ever gone to a trap and it's still alive? No, but I have set six traps and gone out the next day and now there's five. Traps gone. He got it on his leg And then limped his way away

Whoa And took it back to That's when it stopped Because that guy went back to the nest With the trap on his leg And everybody was like Oh yeah Let's lay low for a while

Shit's going on over there Whoa Yeah because I had an exterminator When I first moved into my place I had a mouse On 6th Street Yeah

And I talked to the exterminator If I get an opportunity To talk to exterminator I'm like We're here for a lot time right right right it's such an intense job and i'm so tripped out by rats but um he was saying that as humans get smarter rats get smarter yeah and he was saying that like if i if you just put like a plate of food in a room that had rats they would be like this is weird and they wouldn't

touch it for days because they'd be like where did this come from yeah and then and eventually they would get one rat to try it probably an unpopular probably a hacky rat yeah and try it and if he survived and they're like, okay, we can all eat. Oh, right, yeah. But, uh, whoa. So anyway, so my daughter left the back door open to the back house. You called it a structure. You're being modest.

Our back penthouse. She left up in the door. And, uh, the east wing. And, uh, so my mother went back there and she saw a rat. Oh, my God. No, in the house? In the house. Oh.

And she was. really freaked out yeah so so we have we had traps so i set three or four traps in the back peanut butter you use rubber gloves because if they smell uh your the oil from your hands on the trap they won't go near it really yes you got to wear rubber gloves and i laid them out and i mean they're big and so uh i left the lights on i oh and i saw it from i i saw in the door i saw him walk across so uh and he's fucking big like a kitten oh my god and so i left so i left the traps out and then i i came back a couple hours later and this dude his head exploded it like slammed his head and the body was huge and there was a puddle of blood on the floor oh i would move and so i put on the

gloves and i got a garbage bag and i threw it in and i tied it up i threw in the alley and then i went back there with paper towels and cleaner and I got it all cleaned up. Wow. And it was so traumatic and then my mom was like, she was freaking out. So like, I understand. And now I got to, so I said, so we're saying goodnight. And then my mom, I go,

you want me to walk you to the back, don't you? She's like, yeah. So I walk into the back and then I leave my mom alone back there. And the last time she was there, she saw a giant rat. Yeah. So she's free. So now I'm, all right, A, I'm traumatized from the murder of a, if it's a mouse,

it's like killing a fly. But when it, when it, when it, when you feel weight as you're throwing it out, that feels like a murder. Well, yeah, because it, yeah. So I'm traumatized from it. I'm having images of it. And then I'm worried that my mom is freaking out in the back, which I know she is. Yeah. So I did not sleep last night.

I could not fall asleep. I slept like three hours. And then I had to get up at eight, eight o'clock to meet somebody who's coming by the house for something. drugs and uh and then i was like you know what let me lay down for 20 minutes and then that was at 820 and i woke up at 11 50 a m and we had this interview at 1 o'clock and i'm 20 minutes from here okay so i was so groggy and i got up and i saw my mom and she's like yeah she didn't sleep oh you poor mom i know and so i had a couple cups of coffee and i came over here and i was I was worried that my energy wouldn't be good

for the interview. It's pretty good, right? Yeah. Like, I feel present. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I don't feel like I'm making a lot of jokes, but you're not the kind of guy.

I feel like I've got to make a lot of jokes with you. No, because I mean, I'm doing all the heavy lifting with the jokes. Yes. Well, I was going to tell you before we started that you needed to be the young guy. Yeah, I get to be the straight man on this one. Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, you wish you had told me.

Um, dude, I can't believe, that's such a, uh, uh, that blows my mind it's the tail it's the whole thing i hate the most the whole thing your poor mom i don't know if i could ever we we had a rat in our hallway at that um on east on east 6th street yeah and it was during the pandemic

and uh yeah someone had it this was crazy it had eaten the rat poisoning i hope i'm not we're not traumatizing people just talking about rats but if you live in new york you have to that you have been experienced. So it ate the rat poising and it was going crazy. I guess it makes them very thirsty.

And so they had, he was just trying to get out of the hall. And there was like, when you were walking up to the hall, there was like where he, like, would find like the bracing and the crown molding at the bottom of the corner. He would try to get through there. And he finally were waiting for the exterminator to come and we're on the street and he chewed through the third floor

screen to get outside, jumped out the window, bounced off the awning of the restaurant beneath the apartment, landed on the street and took off. So it was like an action movie. Yeah, very similar to an action movie. Jack Reacher, the rat. Yeah, Jack Ratter. I get, yeah, they trip me out. I can't believe you deal with that. Yeah, they are smart. And it did take a few rounds of putting the traps outside before they started going for it. They had to get used to them. And I kept rebating them every day with the rubber gloves on. But anyway, let's get to some questions. Yeah, hit me.

The first question is a better right. All right. So you were a model. Yeah. Without question. I mean, how does that feel when somebody goes, what do you do for living? Is it hard to say I'm a model? So, well, because I was, I modeled, and the reason that I modeled was because I couldn't read.

Yeah. And my friends went to college, and I had, I grew up with someone who was like a very popular model or like successful. Really? Yes. And she was like, you should model. And so I went from swimming with a T-shirt on that summer to being in Milan trying to get like fashion shows. So you mean, do you lost weight and got in shape? No, I didn't get in shape.

But I was just so skinny. Because I was so skinny. I was like self-conscious. I probably weighed 115, 120 pounds. God, really? Yes, I was so skinny. Yeah. I had long hair, and it had never crossed my mind.

Yeah. And then I had this opportunity, and it was just a coincidence that it was the time where they were kind of trying to get people that looked. Like, there was like the heroin she. Yeah. Yeah. I have a joke. I don't do it anymore, but I had this joke where I go, they're like, we want guys to look like they do drugs. And I'm like, I'm going to do you one better.

So, yeah. so it was so it felt really embarrassing to me I felt like this is crazy it's funny because it's the coolest thing in the world and yet at the same time it's one of the it's like it's like saying where'd you go to school at Harvard like it's really great but it doesn't it doesn't play well coming out of your mouth yeah but also it was like I just didn't think it was very cool I was like a deadhead I was like this is not right right right you know what I mean and to me it felt like it was like one step away from being in a boy band it just felt and the experience was well then people kind of think you're dumb

yeah like people think models are dumb when obviously like they're just as apt to be intelligent as anybody else they just happen to have good genes yeah but so they thought people think your models are dumb and on top of that I'm like teetering on illiteracy yeah so I didn't have you know you felt dumb already well and it was just yeah so it was a great experience and when I look back I was like I should have probably just had more fun and enjoyed it right I was really I really wanted to do something that I loved and my dad was like in the insurance business and didn't like his job all through you know when I was a kid so I was really kind of searching for something and then in modeling I met like photographers that were like oh I got my first camera when I was six and like

stylists and designers that loved what they were doing and it was like their reason they were on the planet to do so I was like oh shit it really motivated me to find what I was supposed to do what kind of money do you make as a model like what was your biggest earning year would you I mean, I did it for four years and on my fourth year I started how you make money

is catalog stuff so you'll go like one of my last jobs was you go to Germany Were you based out of Canada still? No I lived in London which was like kind of weird you're better to be based at a Milan or Paris

but I loved London and I had a lot of good friends there so I still I just played London a few months ago and I'm still hung out with the people that I hung out with back then. But, so, yeah, so you want to get into the catalog stuff. So you'd go and you'd try on like 300 winter coats in a day and you get paid, you know, very well. Like, how much would you make in a good year?

I don't remember what I would make in a year, but I... Like over $100,000? Maybe, like, you would do a job, like I did a commercial where you'd get, like, $35,000 or $1,000 or $1,000. Oh, nice. So it was big hits. It wasn't like a constant. And then you would do like I did all the like teeny bopper magazines where it was like, you know, like for like teenage girls or whatever. Yeah.

And those would pay like, say like 150 pounds to shoot or whatever. Yeah. But again, the other option was for me to like work in a bar or whatever. So I was making more than that. And then you'd go to Milan and you do the fashion shows like I did like Armani fashion show or whatever. And that would pay, you know, a couple. thousand bucks or something so was a ton of money for me then was there a lot of backstage like changing clothes with the female models there was some of that yeah yeah that's pretty sweet

except they're very flat-chested aren't they uh well uh yeah i mean the these like striking beautiful women but again i was like i didn't feel like a striking beautiful man yeah so you don't argue with me but i i didn't answer really fast they do it again Say I'm not really a strike. I didn't feel like a striking. I just didn't feel like a striking beautiful man. No. That's good.

So, yeah, so I wasn't like, I wasn't like in my underwear, like leaning on the rack. Yeah, yeah, right, right, right. Talking to the female models. But did you date female models over the years? I had dated a couple. Yeah. I had another joke about that where my friends were like, what's it like hook it up with female models?

I'm like, after four years, I was also. so curious. But yeah, but I more had friends and stuff outside of the fashion. Yeah, right, right. Like I had like a local pub and I had like a really fun kind of group of people. Do you feel like it used to be difficult to be a good looking comic? I mean, I don't know if you remember that, but like nobody was good looking. And now I think with people like Anthony Jesselneck, like there are more good looking male

comedians because I think it used to be like the audience almost wanted you to have something wrong like to be overweight or to be a nerd or whatever and like did you ever feel like you had to work harder to be taken no because I don't feel like I'm like a I'm not like like like jeslinick is like a blonde guy yeah you know what I mean I don't feel like I'm like I don't think anyone would be like oh this oh this ex model's gonna do stand no you know wow that was really No, so, no, I don't, I know, I never, I don't think. There are guys, like, there are some comics that are just. Gary Galman.

Very handsome man. There's young comics now that are like, you know what I mean? Like, drop dead, like, you know, super ripped and, you know, so and so forth. I think for females it's hard because they get a lot of stalkers. Like every attractive female comic I know has like stalkers. Yeah. Because you're being very vulnerable to people. Yeah, and people think they know you.

Yeah, the wall is taken down. You're right there with them. And so that's a real problem. It's really better to be like an Erica Rhodes or something. I remember. I'm just kidding. She listens to the podcast. She's very attractive.

Yeah, she's very pretty. Yeah. I remember when I started, I remember being. really taken back by how often comics talked about appearances. Like, he's really good looking. He's going to go to sitcom. And I was like, they almost talked about appearances more than model. Like, it really came up a lot back then. Now I feel like it's not... Well, you missed the boat with the, uh, every comic getting a development deal in a sitcom. Like, you got here a little late for that.

Yeah, I did. But I still, because the advice that everyone gave every comic was, have your five minute showcase sets be your sitcom right so i was still we still did that i had that i had a whole thing about live because i after i lived in england i moved home and started comedy and lived with my parents so i had like a sitcom pitch showcase set about living the guy that comes home yeah living with his parents yeah yeah and um but yeah now that's not even did you ever get a deal this not anything no i didn't but i i i did start where I heard of people. You know, you'd hear like, oh, this guy went to JFL and, you know, left with a $250,000 deal.

Back in the, back in the mid to late 90s, early aughts, it was like, if you went up there and you did well, you got a deal. Like, you know, and six-figure deals. That's so wild. I got, I probably had four or five six-figure deals for my own sitcoms. That's amazing. And I had no idea what I was doing. I'd never written on a show. I didn't really have, like my ideas were more conceptual because I didn't really have.

have a life story that lent itself to a sitcom really, you know, but it was a complete, it was a, it was just like a feeding frenzy. The networks would come to JFL. The head of Warner Brothers would be there. The head of casting for NBC would be there. And if you got a little buzz, they all would come to your show and there'd be a line of me. I would, I remember one show. I got off stage and there was a line of people, my friend Kevin Meaney. Do you remember Kevin Meaney? Yeah, yeah. He was one of my best friends and he gave me a hug and he goes. Such a cool dude. I only got to meet him a couple times. Such a nice guy. Oh my God. And he would play the cellar at Christmas and he did that, you don't know that song. He used to do it. We are the world. No, he do it's the most wonderful time

of the year. And then he would talk about coming out to his family. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that was such a great. Honey, I'm homo. And so he goes, don't look behind you, but there's a line. And then I stood there. I had a stack of business cards like this from every studio. Wow. This was the first time it happened to me. It was 96. And I had no manager and I had no agent. By the end of the weekend, I was with the biggest management company, biggest agency. I had a $160,000 deal with Fox, booked on David Letterman. Whoa. All in like I did four or five minutes spots over the weekend. How you feel on that flight home? You must have been skipping up and down the aisles. I was skipping up down the aisles. And then I-based in L.A. at the time? I was in New York.

but I had started in Boston, so, like, none of the industry knew me in New York because I had moved to New York recently. Yeah. And I became a little bit of an asshole. Like, I look back, I mean, not really, but there's a couple people that were like, yeah, you kind of were a little cocky, you know. And I say that whenever I see somebody get successful and they're kind of an asshole, I go, give them a fucking pass. It's really overwhelming to suddenly get it all. I can't imagine. do you have to let them lose it all and then usually when you come back and get it yeah

which i'm still waiting on mine from 96 it's coming baby then you start to i imagine i'll start to feel better yeah i think this podcast is going to be the thing that launches me this episode yes that rat that i think the rats do i rats at come oh for sure the rat boys uh yeah i i i can't I everything took so long everything yeah yeah I can't imagine I mean that stuff just doesn't really it doesn't have well it does now with social media I think if you blow up uh if you're if you're I don't know if you call it an influence or whatever but like those people are gobbling up deals and money and you know you see you obviously know the comics that go on the road that didn't put in the time and now they've been doing stand it for three years and they're

selling out, like, you know, clubs that I'm at struggling over the weekend, and they come in for a Sunday 3 p.m. show. I can't imagine. And they sell it out. And some of them aren't comics per se. Like, some of them are like people that blew up on TikTok or whatever. Yeah. And they show their videos on stage on a screen and they just take questions from the audience.

But I can't imagine that. So if the show's at three, the stress you're feeling at two where you're like, I've done stand up 15 times. There's 600 people. here and you can't blame them they're they're presented with this opportunity they have you know agents and managers and stuff like that being like this is the next move yeah obviously they're gonna do yeah they can't go like all right i'll go feature for 500 bucks a weekend well because when they could be making 10,000 for the weekend this this could be your i don't know how this could be

their shot right so they're going to do it i don't blame them at all but i do think in the green room they're like okay so i got that one story that work sometimes. Yeah. And then, you know. If they're smart, they bring somebody with them who can help them write and act. I saw like

Joel McHale when he was blowing up on Talk Soup was a show he used to do. Yeah, I remember that, yeah. And so he got very faint. He was almost like one of the first internet because it was short form. Yeah.

You know, it was almost like an internet show. And so he started doing stand-up. And, you know, also a very good-looking guy. So there was like, you know, resentment. People were like, who's this guy's a good looking guy? He's got fame and he sucks his stand-up. But that dude put in the fucking work.

And he's now a really good comedian, but he started for scratch. And he used to show clips on stage and do all that shit. And then he sort of like moved his way into just doing the stand-up. That's great. I feel like that the people that get these opportunities should look at him as a model them because I feel like that's not.

The way to learn stand-up is, anonymous no one knows you yeah and you go up and you fumble you fumble in these like open mics right but to go up and have expectations like when i meet someone on the road or if someone comes to the show and they're like i'm thinking about doing stand-up i'm like you just need five minutes and there's as much pressure your first sets as the pressure you feel the first time you sit down at a piano or pick up a guitar you know there's no when you pick up a guitar and you don't know how to play anything you don't put it down, discouraged. You're like, I'm going to pick it up again.

You know what I mean? Well, I think it's like what you said about the year you spent in New York struggling and how that's sort of been fuel for you over your career now. I think there really needs to be that time where your jealousy is really important. Like you need to see people that you started with suddenly get success when you go like, why him? You know, that's a huge motivator because you go like, well, why him? Okay, why him?

You know? What is he doing that's right? Maybe learn from that. And it's going to be right. I mean, I had a moment like that. Like I was very, my goal when I started stand up, I watched comedian and I saw Jerry like hanging at the cellar with Quinn and, you know, having hummus and then going doing spots.

Yeah. And I was like, that was my goal. Yeah. 100% I want to work at the comedy cellar. I want to sit at those tables. And I can even, I know the exact. I'm like that scene where Colin and Jerry are sitting there or whatever. I was so inspired by that.

And then so I got to the cell. and that it's such a good experience it's such a great club that I was content and then I my friends started playing theaters and selling tickets and yeah and I just wasn't posting online I was right to me that would seem like such a pain in the ass and now it's you have an option no and then and then and then and it really helped me and then it you know I was able to what kind of stuff you post I've never looked at your social I don't look at social media very much you're in for a treat but is it stand-up clips yeah I do I like I like I'm I'll just, no, no, because I don't want to burn material.

So I just post, like, I've always rift a lot with the crowd since I started. Yeah. So I just, like, a snippet of that. Yeah. I'll post that. And then you're not burning anything. How often you do that? Three times a week.

Shut up. Yeah. Three bits with the crowd? Three clips a week, yeah. Wow. Do you bring a camera guy with you? I bring, yeah, one of my openers. Dude, that's so smart.

Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. So, yeah, that's, but I've done that for a few years, and it's really helped. Because otherwise, it's like, I was just at the cellar. So if you came to the seller and saw me, but chances are you're not going to remember my name or, you know what I mean? You might fuck it up.

Hainly. Yeah. Hainly. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah. But, yeah, but it's so obvious what other people are doing. I feel like you just have to do the shit that so often it's the stuff that is really unappealing is the missing link to what you have to do.

Right. And that's what social media is just like, oh, God, I don't want. on you know even the picking up the phone like before you have an agent of having to pick up the phone and call bookers on a regular basis and feel like am I annoying yeah or you know whatever and like trying to find that fine line between annoying and staying on top of it like it becomes a science you get obsessed with it I would have like a date book and I would write down call bill downs on Tuesday and then nine days later call bill downs try 11 a.m. instead of 3 p.m. I hear he's better than you know you know and you don't want to do that you want to just go you know stand up and

you want to you know what i mean get discovered like uh jane manfield jane mansfield yeah either one of them is a perfect example her daughter is uh marissa hegelova mariska hardigan miss mariska hardigan uh she's on uh homicide special victims lord order sve you she's been on it for her 15 years maybe 20 years oh good gig you did oh paul started on that show oh really yeah he's an extra paul's an extra um yeah but that you can't no one like you're not no one's gonna walk into a club now and be like this kid's going to the stars well listen phil hanley you're going to the stars with this new book it's called uh my life as a dyslexic wordsmith special Spellbound. Spellbound. My life is a dyslexic wordsmith. And I'm sorry I didn't read it. I wish I'd gotten a copy from your publicist.

Or I would have brought you one. Signed it, too, man. Did you do an audiobook for it? Oh, I did the audiobook. That must have been so hard for you. It was so hard. It was crazy. Oh, my God. It was harder than writing the book. It's much harder. Because you have to talk like this. You know what I mean? You have to talk. Could you read the words? No, I can't, like I could read, like I could read, but it would be like, da, da, da, da, da, like, you know, so I got this guy, his name was guy, and he was the director and he was so cool and so patient. And he started and he's like, he's like, we're going to come in here. I did it two or three days a week. Yeah. In the studio. And he's like, we might do half an hour. We might do three hours. And I would get, the goal was to do three hours. I would get, there's a font that is, easier for dyslexic to read. So I'd get pages printed out, big font, and I'd go home. And it was when I still lived in East Village.

And so I didn't have a dad. I just had, I'd put my pages on the air friar, like a podium. And I would memorize for three hours. I would memorize what I had to do the next day. Yeah. And so I would look at it, but I would be able to do. But it was so hard. Like, I would have to like, before I would do a page, I'd be like,

like, like, yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah, I would really have to get myself psych up. Did you think about just letting somebody else read it for you? I thought about that a lot. But I knew they were going to, and it's not like, you know, the book is funny and it's also there's parts that are sad. I mean, it's talking about a neurodiverse kid struggling throughout his life.

But there are obviously there's jokes too, and I was like, I can't have an actor, you know, ruin my jokes, no offense. So, yeah. He's an extra. He doesn't need to have lines. Well, it was. Also, the special is called Oolala. It's on your YouTube channel. Yeah, that was a couple years ago, but still really worth revisiting.

You'd enjoy watching it a second time, I'm sure. I did watch it. Oh, did you really? Yeah, yeah. I thought it was great. Oh, thank you very much. Yeah, it's really good. Well, that means a lot to me. Did Paul watch it? Okay. Unbelievable. Yeah. Thank you for watching it. Of course. And he's got gigs coming up, Indy, Winnipeg, Victoria, San Antonio, Norfolk, Virginia, Charlottesville,

Washington, Kentucky, Ontario, Canada, Ottawa, Halifax, Phoenix, Columbus. If you go to Phil Hanley, H-A-N-L-E-Y-D-E-Y-D-com, you can get tickets and you can get access to the special as well as the book. And what a pleasure, man. Thank you so much for coming out. No, I was so excited to do that New Year's Eve with you. And then obviously we've seen each other since then. But yeah, it was so nice.

Great. Thank you for having me. All right, man. Good luck. Thank you. You know, I'm going to be.