Fladseth - #225 - Anders Nordstad

Episode Date: February 7, 2025

ENDELIG har jeg fått til en prat med Anders. Vi snakker om maten vår og de få på toppen som styrer hele sjappa. Meget interessant prat!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's no joke to put it out much longer, Anders Nordstad. No, it's just a Christmas. Yes, it is. I am playing journalist in between. I am going to be a little... We are going to talk about important things here. And I have followed what you have written and have been doing for a while. So I met you after you got home some noble metal at the subject prize.

Or maybe it was a wooden cup you got. It was a nice glass plaque. It was plastic. Yes, it was plastic. It is one of the nicest things I have ever got. No matter what kind of prize it is, it's always nice to get recognition and visibility. When you fight a pretty tough fight, which is a mistake of mine, and this is of course a bit funny too, but if you had lived, Anders, in a country we don't like to associate ourselves with, then it might happen that you have got a little horse head in your bed,

because you are fighting against some pretty powerful people at the top of... Many call it the daily mafia, and they will come back to that. But you... Yes, but I think that's what's nice about our country. It happens that they call me and pretending that they are not angry. So I have a kind of dialogue with them. But what irritates me, what gets me on Lasse as a regular man on the street and regular user, what I don't find myself in is when...

Imagine how much money... We'll get back to the structure here, but there are some at the top, who have three big players, who have crushed the competition, and who are in charge of the big stores we all work in. And at the beginning, these people earn a lot of money, so much money that they got some billion bucks a little while ago, that they don't have any problem paying. But just to be clear, even if they earn a lot of money at the beginning, they will keep on fooling us. And you have taken them in and written about it,

taken them in that written about them, and taken them in that they try tricks and they trick people, and they try to make people believe that there are Norwegian apples that come from Spain or something. And then I get pissed. Because when you get fooled, you get pissed. Yes, and many react to that. There are some who think that I don't do anything else than running around in stores and taking pictures of things. I'm not like most people, I hate to go to stores. But I get a lot of tips from people who react to different things. And what I find a bit strange about it is that all these chains, they complain at the same time that there is so little customer loyalty. Customer loyalty? That's why I said it. Loyalty. Yes, but they think it's cheap that people are not faithful to one chain.

And then I think, it's not so strange that people don't do that. If you go out of a shop and feel that you have done it, then yes. Then the search engine is inevitably the same as the shop again. So that's a bit strange. But I think that there are few who really understand how these things work. I have to say, before I say anything more, I have in a way the last few years started and what's happening here has used to what is happening here. But I am... I do business very often. Very often at these shops. So...

Do you have any special choices? Yes, I do. Do I have any special choices? Yes, I do. I can go to the extra meters. I can go down to another shop that is-op or a rema or anything, which is a nice little shop, but there is a small vegetable section and a lot of nice spices from all over the world. But then I also have to be inside of a co-op, right? Because if I want a piece of salmon, there is not everything in one place there, and that is what the daily life chains have, they have everything in one place. So in a hectic everyday life, it is the most practical.

And I am an idiot, so I agree with the loyalty stuff they have with these... What is it called? Coop cards. Coop is a different word. That is a funny thing to say, I think. Because the goal is of course for them to collect the most possible information about you as a customer and about your customers. That's why they have these cards. And then they send something, the bill, over to those, hopefully even more idiots, who don't want to share that information with them.

So it's a game that you as a consumer can't win on. Because it's something that has to pay for the bonus you get. Yes, exactly. In your work, there are some who have got too much power, who control the entire supply chain, and that is gradually but surely going further and further out, and not least those who produce the food. That's right. That's right. That's right. And the food industry in general. Those who destroy the food products are getting more and more squeezed over that there are some who... They have taken control over us consumers. I often say that a funny story is that on a small roadside in Telemark, there are today 14 Kiwi stores, 15 Rema stores

and 17 Coe stores, which all sell about the same things at the same price, and they call that competition. But they have control over that part, and we are trying to do that especially in Norway, that we have three groups, like that, in Sweden and other countries, that the power is concentrated. What is a bit special about Norway is the degree of what is called vertical integration, that they work behind the scenes in the value chain. They have the shops, then they have taken over the distribution, then they are the grossist leaders themselves. You hear distribution and grossist, and I can't even remember all of them.

What does this mean? Are we talking about Bama? Are we talking about Asko? I hear about these... How does it connect? Asko is the grossist of the Norwegian group, and distributors. They are the ones who make sure that the and who are the distribution of the Norwegian Group's businesses. But the Norwegian Group, for example, Obama is for all fruits and vegetables, for both the Norwegian Group and Rema, while Coop is for another group.

So, if I understood correctly, you have the Norwegian group, Koop and Reitan. And this is of course three different actors, but they say that, I'll say a little about Spissen, they are sitting with these ferocious capes, as you have seen in the program, They are quite on the same line when it comes to awards and the above-mentioned goals here. But what you are into, which is scary, is that they have just got the power to dictate how what should be pushed forward,rukt & Grønt. So it's not just what's in the stores, but the entire food production is dictated by these three. I see, I'll say it.

Yes, to a greater extent, they are able to to create definition power over our entire food system. And Fruit and Vegetables is a good example, because there they are the three daily food chains, via their two sisters and brothers, who decide who is going to produce what, when, where, how. And then I think that they have got a power that they they have not deserved. For me it is... They take the starting point in our purchasing power and payment will. And then they can dictate what they want to pay. And for a Norwegian fruit or vegetable producer, what is the alternative? It is beans or beans and such. And I would like to say that beans and such are really nice.

But at the same time I think that we are in Norway in 2025. And then the alternative to the chain stores should be to meet at a dark parking lot and pick up food from a trunk over to something else. I think that's a bit of a big deal. And the and there is no doubt that people have bad luck in the day, so that the shops can see our willingness to pay and turn up the prices afterwards, that is in no way good for our health, but we don't have any choice. And they give a lot of subsidies to the land use. I understand. It doesn't go in the other direction. And the rewards, like the Reco ring, are more than enough to support. Because it will then ensure to balance the balance with the daily giants, and at the same time give more money to the banks, because you cut some leds.

Wouldn't that be a solution? Yes, maybe. But I actually think that the most important thing is that the bond, regardless of what it delivers, must actually be paid better for the products. Norwegian job hunting policy is based on the idea of the garage that we must keep the price down, otherwise the food will be so expensive in the store. Yes. That worked 70 years ago.

But today the price tag the food starts in the shop. Because it is the business task to find out what you and I are willing or able to pay. And it is almost unlimited when we don't feel that we have no choice? No, you can say that on the basis of food, what is called price elasticity in the professional language is towards zero. We need milk, we need bread, we need meat and vegetables in a way. But on… what can I say? It is possible that you drop something you define as luxury. But food we need food. Yes, basic answers. But what I understand is that when we pay more and more for the packaging machine,

you think that it has to do with production costs, and the more money you have to pay for it, the more money goes to the producers. But I don't see that it is the top who take the money, right? They take a good chunk of it. The donations or subsidies that are paid to Norwegian farmers, is meant as a compensation for not being able to take such a high price. And the idea for the garage, from 70 years ago, was that this is used subsidies

that will follow the goods out to the store, so that we get cheap food in the store. And that worked for a while. But in the last 30-40 years, we have gone over to a more, or a purely market-based price setting of food, where the core task of the trade is to find out what people are willing to pay for this.

And when we accept it and buy it, then we have the price. And in that way, a lot of the benefits disappear on the way. Yes, exactly. Absolutely. I'm not saying that absolutely everything does. Some may result in lower north, but yes. But when we hear about the goers who are put down in a violent tempo, and the bands who struggle to get end to end to meet, then it is a lot for them, quite simply, when someone has too much power, who is grabbing on to some of it.

Yes. One thing is in a way just pricing of basic goods, but I know you write a lot about so called EMV, is that right? EMV goods, which are the shops own products, because in addition... Own brand values. It's quite obvious that we never get enough here. And this has happened, I feel like this has happened very recently as well. Not only does one have the Nordfjord and Coop here, some of their own products, but more and more of this has happened. And it's crazy for me that this can happen in a country like Norway,

with a competitive view and with some instances that should fit these things. But now I have ended up in a coop in a coop shop for a year. And there is, I remember there were a couple of times there was an egg crisis, there are very small eggs, but there are a lot of eggs there, all of them have different labels on the packages. But there is Koop, Koop, Koop, Koop, Koop, Koop, everything is Koop. It's one... Like if they had more value for you than me. Yes, but then you think, I don't own Ko coop, that's good. They will also tell you about that.

But there is one competitor, and I know that, maybe you can go and check it out, I am also part of the whole system, but there is one that differs, and that is the so-called Totenegg. So now I have all the way up to the left, I have around six sparrows with Totenegg. That is perhaps something else, but that's the only one that's not boiled. How... and I'm not saying that the priors of Dødenrids are the best... I don't know who they are, who the priors are, but it was common to find a pack of priors egg before the war, right? I don't understand. What's happening there? What's happening is that, as we were talking about, it's not necessarily, and to a very small extent,

the raw material price that determines the price of the food in the store. We are fond of well-known brands, likeabberhus, Levepåsteg. Stabberhus, Levepåsteg is not sold at a cost price. It is sold at a significant value. The one that reflects the value we think is right, then we know what we get and we don't have to spend a lot of time on purchasing. So it has a value for us. And then it should be said in a post there, that as I understand it, the stores are running and

screwing up and down these prices on milk and everything, so that we get a little confused. Because what does a package of liver conscious strategy. The mother knew what things cost in the store. I have no idea. It's difficult to follow. No, and that's completely conscious, right? And change prices so often, and so likely that it becomes difficult, that we really don't know what the real price is. Of course, it's very smart. Yes, it's still. But back to Stabbrød, right? What the chain has understood for a long time,

is that there is a value in having a brand, and of course they do that. Ask Orkland, that's what they're doing, is to create value. And the chains have understood, and then they have thought the added value we have ourselves. So the only thing I usually say is that the daily market chain claims that EMV creates added value for you and me in the form of larger selection or lower prices or whatever. But what it really is about is just to move the value from some actuators to themselves. And there they use all the tricks in the book, and probably a few more that are not in the book. To get us to... But then they use art, they can use art at high prices on well-known brands,

that subsidizes a low price on the product they want you and I to buy for a while. Until they see that we buy it, and what happens with the price? Then the dark goods price is approaching. And in some bar categories, as you say, there is soon nothing else. So it's EMB that kind of competes with EMB. Then I think, hello. And here I was about to say, I'm getting pissed off, because it's purely a trick. And people are bad at it too. And I see, for example, I have started to study this more and more, where you have to find a sink, a sink ham from the cow, or chicken fillet ham and stuff.

There it is now very, very little, which is different than cow. It also applies to the section on the side, there is such an egg salad and these things. Everything is in the shape of just more and more cow products. And then, for example, take the so-called QN-app. There you have Prio, which now seems to be the only one that is not Coop. And then you have on the side there, you have a completely similar label, but it is Coop itself, and they are under one crown.

So we have learned that… And 80 crowns or two more too. Because they count on that. They have sold their time on the fact that the EMV is cheaper. So many think that they should buy the EMV, because it's probably cheaper. But I have received enough advice from consumers who show that it's not the case. And then it has secured the value they were looking for. Namely that they can now price the M&M's at the same price as they knew Macro was.

Yes, but that's... I haven't said that they are smart and that they are good businessmen. Absolutely not. So it's clear that if you put one or two crowns under for a while, and then you put five crowns over suddenly, then you have learned the consumer that you have created a kind of a back market reflex, which means that you choose to buy a pair of shoes in front of the other. It's not like a bigger package. People think that a bigger one is probably cheaper. It turns out that it's not always true. Usually it's an expensive price per kilo for a bigger package than for a small one. I'm in the opposite of you, so I'm very happy to go to the store. At least when I have some extra time, I like to go on a Monday, shop for the whole week. I like to…

You are smart. Yes, I am smart, but it's not just an economic thing. It's about that I like to think in that way. I think it's… I enjoy it a bit more. And I like to be able to look at an election and think about… I enjoy an election. And what I'm afraid of is that in the end you only have a few alternatives and okay, are you going to have a hamster? Yes, this is hamster. In Norway this is hamster, it's called cow and that's hamster. That's our hamster. How much more do you need actually? No, but what in the world is happening with all these? Because you have seen some small producers come and go, right? Who like to have a little more focus on animal welfare and so on, and are a little more on a smaller scale.

Now that it is only Prior and Coop again, what happens to all these small producers? For example, Rørosmejerier, I don't know exactly, I can't see much about it, but I think it's a little less independent actor, is that right? But in the dairy industry, I use Coop a lot, because that's where I mostly go now. You have some Tino, Q and stuff down there, but then you have the English brand, and that's Coop's own. What's the difference between EMV and these Englamark? Coop is the same? It is the same. Just like First Price or Eldorado or whatever.

So it surprises you a little to think that these are not Coop's own milk. Those who smell the lye, they are like, I'm not going to have Coop's own milk. I'll take Englamark. Or Rema. No, I'll take Kolonihagen. Yes, right. Same. Which. Or on Rema. No, I take Kolonihagen. Yes, right? Which is owned by Rema. So this is then, everyone who is listening, understands that this is a trick. They don't take their hands down physically when they steal money, but it's a scam. It's a right thing.

Yes, you like to have words better than me, but I'm not completely against it. But at the same time, I've worked as a businessman for 25 years myself, and a businessman's core job was to find out what people want to pay for it. It's a tough job. Yes, it's tough. That's honestly what it is. Yes, and it's never been a nice term we find ourselves in. Yes, but he is cramped, you know. It's like a big-screened man in the building who is trying to get everything that's going on. We get excited in the car sales too. who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one It's a bit like mafia, here you are not satisfied with something, here you just have to squeeze out every little ear to get the most out of yourself, and the least possible to everyone else. This is incredibly un-solidary. I criticize the merchants and such. And I think that what has happened at least for the local merchants, the farmers,

they have reduced to shelf-stables for the chains. So they have very little opportunity to think that, you know what, now I'm going to make a good store that people want to sell. Because they are obliged to through their chain of connections, whether it's franchise or how the relationship is, then they are obliged to just put in the shelves what someone has decided to put in the shelves. So they are not really bought anymore, in the word and in the sense of the word. They are more expensive. I think that's a pity, because I think there are many good local

merchants around in the whole of Norway, who would have liked to make a cooler and better shop for the local environment than they are allowed to. They have to stick to the chain's structure. Maybe we should come back to the end, what is possible to get here, how we can make some changes. But it's also a bit like that, my favorite shop is Guttapåhäuen, which is not only Guttapåhäuen, but also Seete Krusse and Guttapå, and probably a bit everywhere. I think they do it in a usable way, because they sell a lot online and so on. But there is no doubt that it is very expensive to shop there, even if the challenge is fantastic. I love to go around the shops, but it is not easy. If you have a little bit of economics, it is not easy to trade there every day. So these big shop chains have made it so that it is much cheaper to trade there, but at the same time it is expensive.

And then it becomes a bit tricky, and then there is a bad selection, and then... So it's a kind of... What can I say? You are a bit of a bond catcher here. It's not a good circle. No, it's not. But you can say that the shops you use there, you don't have to come out with a six pack with Red Bull and other crap. That's what they make the most money selling, is that we don't really need it. So you can say, buy a kilo of meat at the Rekoringen or the bombs market, it might cost 5 kroner more per kilo, but you don't have to spend a lot of other money. I would rather live in a society where you can buy both Red Bull, Snickers and chips and everything.

I don't want to live in a society where you can buy both Red Bull, Snickers and chips and everything. Okay, do you want to drink energy drinks? Yes, then you have this one. And then it's like, they haven't used... It's just like that. It feels like a dystopian movie based on some Soviet communism. Where you are like, here is the shop and here are the goods you get. That is what we have decided. Because that's what we have decided. And then there is this Simpsons episode, where a grisky bastard is sitting on top and laughing and gnawing at her. You can't find that. And that's what I'm afraid of.

And I notice that there has been an incredibly sad development in the last few years, I think. I agree with that. And it's a bit like, if you think about the whole value chain for food, from the bond to we find something in the store, it's our purchasing power that sets the premises. The maximum you can get out of the value chain is what you and I are willing to pay. And then it's a lot about how these values are going to be distributed among the different characters. You have those who run the shop, the grouse, those who feed the roe deer, and then it's the beans. But of course if all the values end up in the last letter, it becomes quite large. Then we are in danger of losing both the raw material production, but also the breeding industry in Norway. So, when we know that this squeezes the bones in a much greater degree than it would have needed,

the bones that have a difficult expression for it, they get more difficult, because some become richer and richer. This is a basic Bernie Sanders, top 1%, 1% thing. % and % stuff. You can see the development here in the country as well. How much do you have with globalisation in terms of trade agreements and things like that? There is a lot to do with that, right? Yes, there is a difficult to say it carefully. We have many trade agreements that make... The fundamental lack with all of them is that in all trade agreements we have, we say that meat is meat and milk is milk and vegetables are vegetables. The only difference is the price.

While the way it is produced does not matter. And when the Bama or the Bama can import tomatoes from Morocco or Spain and put them in the same packaging as a Norwegian producer on the brain does. And in the store they say, it's the same shit. That creates challenges for producers in Norway, because we can't avoid thinking that we are a high cost country, where everything is much more expensive to produce in Norway than in Morocco. people who send in pictures of... It's not so rare that the shops write Norwegian... Norwegian... I mean it's Norwegian, but it's from another country. How is that possible? That's a repeat.

What happens? How can it happen? It's a repeat. What happens and how can it happen? No, it happens because the daily life chain has also realized that we Norwegians think that Norwegian food has a certain value. There are some foods that are safe and so on. So when you go into a Greenland department in a Norwegian daily life store, you get the impression that most of it is Norwegian. There are many used Norwegian symbols, and there is Norwegian on the poster, but there is something else here. This is what we are covering now. We are systematically fooled here. And that is... I don't know, there is something that really triggers me with this. I have been in some... I have had a little fight against Elkjøpp in this podcast. Which I had to boycott. And this is enough.

But then you don't have much choice but to go over to Power, which is owned by the same people. It was like... A very What kind of society do we want here? We want... I mean that If you are obliged to, if you don't have a physical store, then you have to, when you buy something, then you have to be able to get able to contact the person who bought it. And say, hello, this doesn't work. I have paid a lot of money, but it doesn't work.

But now it has become like this. It goes on and then it drops. That was my frustration now. I had bought the kitchen, all the white clothes from Elkjøp, and then everything came smashed, or it didn't work, it was kind of a parody. And then I have to contact Elkjøp, and then it's so difficult to get help. And then I can sit in queue for several hours, and then a voice comes in, we have closed, we have gone, we have left the day before, and then you have to start a new day. And if you have been so lucky to talk to someone, then there are new customers that you have to tell.

You have to go through the whole thing anew. And don't let me start with the big tech companies. I had a transaction to Microsoft that you heard about in two years. And I was like, it's not possible to get in touch with Microsoft. And Facebook is not a human right. But now it has become like we are dependent on it as a social platform to contact people and to have... And then I get hacked, thrown out. You can't meet at an office and say,

oh, something wrong has happened, can we solve this? No, you are hopeless. So we have lost the opportunity to communicate with those we buy the products from. There are no clear distribers of who delivers. And that is a bit of an advantage with MV for the chain. Because then they can exchange the physical delivery, all of this, as... Who provides the lowest price for each time.

Yes, exactly. If you put a ring on it, or a cow on it, it's okay. But it's possible that you and I are old-fashioned, Henrik. If I want to buy something, I want a clear answer on who is behind this. If I'm old-fashioned... No, it's a good thing. I understand. I talk to people. I know that a lot of people give a fuck. And people call me small and all kinds of things.

But I just feel like I'm taking a few steps forward. Because when an development has happened so fast as it has done now, there is no sign that it will stop with that. So we will sit again as consumers and not be hopeless. It will sit. And we know that when power and money are centralized to a large extent, then it's not like when you get enough money and power, then it's just, okay, then we've got enough money and power, then it's a failure. Then people will get it back.

It never happens. Never happened. So we're in a situation where we're completely hopeless. And we... I'm not a super anti-capitalist, but I'm very aware that it's dangerous to let people get too much power. And I feel that Norway has been a society that doesn't try to stand for equality and try to share power as much as possible, but I'm afraid. And then it has to be regulated reasonably, right? I would say that there are many who talk about the love of the free market. The point is that no one likes the free market, because you don't earn any money there.

Adam Smith understood that. So if you let go, call it a free market for yourself, what happens? Then all actors will try to build monopoly positions. That is exactly what has happened in Norwegian daily goods trade. That is exactly it. Norwegian authorities have thought that, no, but let these daily goods chains get free trade, then it will probably be effective logistics systems and a lot of low price stores and blah blah blah. But that's not what's happening. What's happening is what we see now, that we have a monopoly-like situation, that doesn't serve anyone other than those who own the monopoly positions. And that worries me. Basically, we are ready to give power over food to three actors.

But it is for our food. It is yours and my food. Should we say that here are three pieces and milk this for everything it has been? And we just have to book and scrape and... No, I don't think so. I think it's worth fighting for. Yes, and I also... I don't fight for the same thing as you. Maybe I should really get into this and take off my gloves, but it's an old rebel in me. The young Henrik, who really gets pissed off here. You don't find yourself in excess and in the way that you lose power. You don't like that. You don't like to be bullied in the way that you want to be free. And it really feels like similar to the energy market as well. And this is very similar, energy prices and food prices.

Yes, food prices and food prices, yes. I'm not so bad at this term, but it's about his speeches and EU as a people's vote. We're not going to be in EU, but we are in the whole south. And it drives each other. And now it's... I am one of those who think that Donald Trump is not necessarily so dangerous, but that he is pretty tough when it comes to believing in order to get better deals. I am not a fan of Trump, but I think that every time he talks about taking Panama or Greenland, every time he talks about 12 barriers, I think he uses more powerful means to get... You see that Mexico is exploiting the 12 barriers, to exploit it for a year, because they send 10,000 soldiers to the border. It's a pretty smart way to get what you want. But it's damn self-sufficient. And now if Europe responds and there is a 12 war,

then maybe Norway will be outside of that again. So this vulnerability makes it extra important to think about self-sufficiency and preparedness. If we get a little into this with self-sufficiency and how important it is to have a national use in Norway. Not only with the thought that we want to have variation and Norwegian produced things here and now, but if everything disappears, we will lose the technology, the knowledge and everything there as well. Can we play a little there now, a worst case scenario, say that there will be a big, big global crisis, almost a global warming, something else that makes it so big, that the borders close, there is very little coming in from the outside, and this development continues even more than it has done so far. Are we hungry then? What's happening?

As the situation is today, we are one of the countries in the world with low self-dense food. We are behind Somalia, to put it like that. So yes, we are, and you can say that, we are a trading nation, we are going to do trade, for that reason we are sitting here drinking coffee. We need that. And trade we are going to do. No, we don't need that. There are many who have been angry for half a year, but... But anyway, the point with doing trade is that it should give us wealth. That we get things that we can't produce ourselves. If you like bananas, it's nice that we can import bananas, because we can't produce them.

So that gives us welfare benefits. But importing large-scale meat or vegetables that we can produce ourselves, does not give us welfare benefits. It only gives us welfare losses. If we then, in addition, as you say, leave the knowledge that is needed to be able to produce in the future, then we are completely naked there. That is to say, all knowledge does not disappear. If there is a total absence of this state in the country, and to say that we are not being invaded, but that the borders are closed, then one would in a way put it aside, and then people will move out into small areas and you grow what you need yourself. It's a bit like that, isn't it?

Yes, to a certain extent, I'm sure. But we are quite a few people and we are more, and growing a couple of potatoes in the backyard, you should know a lot about the big uses, like producing larger amounts. I try to produce tomatoes myself. That works incredibly bad. I can't produce food. Probably not you, right? You can make food.

Probably. That a while. Now it's polite. We need someone who has the knowledge to produce food on a certain scale, and not least who can use the food resources we have in the country. Is it like that? Is it... There are no politicians who want to go to elections, to be prepared. That's perhaps the most important thing. But it's a lot of preparation. And it's a bit boring, because you think, the pandemic is so far away.

And trade can solve it. And trade can solve it. But suddenly you're standing there, with a worse pandemic than the one we are facing now. And suddenly you are standing here with a world war where we are hopeless to import everything we import now. So I don't know, it's actually about what people think is important, how many reflect around these things, when you go to the polls, you have this back and you care about it. And this is what these daily-life giants also see, that people care so much. Because people care about it. You don't know the story. And many people think that this whole thing with Jewish politics and food politics is so insanely complicated.

That it's like, you know what? I can't stand to relate to that. And I understand that. It is often presented in the media as if it is God our Lord and Peter Harald Gruhjøllen who understands some of these things. And then I think that most people understand that they are not interested in very complicated things. I try to make it a little easier and understandable to people. I think it has to be created. You don't get involved in something that you don't understand. So then I try to tell a story that people understand. In the hope that it will lift the awareness and so on. Can you talk a little more about these things, when it comes to...

I think what is complicated is in a way... I think everyone understands what challenges we are facing. You understand that we are not prepared. We are one of the worst countries when it comes to self-sufficiency and food preparedness. At the shops there are three giants giants that are controlled out there. What do we do with it? What are we supposed to do with it? Yes, that's the question I often ask.

I hear that you describe it, that it's all about loneliness and stuff, but what are we supposed to do with it? What do you usually say? Yes, I usually say that it's possible. The consumer power is there, despite the fact that the chains make a lot of choices on our way. But it goes on and at least sometimes, if we don't all use it as long as you do, then you stop and think, okay, what I pick out of the shelf and put up in my locker,

that becomes more. What I leave behind disappears. And then it can be a useful exercise sometimes to think that, okay, this product is made for me because it is good for me. Or is it made because it is good for those who sell the goods to me? But then it has to be politically willing and willing to do it, but I regulate that market so that it works better. I think that is essential here. Something has to happen politically, and that is very important. and colleagues when it comes to...... ... ... ...

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ............... around the Elfsberg cycle, but if it had been a ban, it would have supported it. Thumbs up, yes, good, we don't need that.

At least, strong regulations. It has been regulations on that front, but it's a bit... You are... You talk about, in a way, not red meat and bear power, but I think when you come to the shops, there are so many of them. It's a bit difficult to understand. I think the fire-fighting bike is an incredibly good example, because it came a few years ago. What happened then? And then it was dragged in with mass actors who tried to cover the bomb, at least when they hit it with the kickers. There was no regulation. They were lying scattered everywhere.

In the end you thought, maybe it can be a bit tricky to regulate it a bit. I think taxing is another good example. It's like freeing up. Does it work? The government is another good example. Free speech works. There are a lot of texts, but it doesn't work. And I think that when it comes to daily business, there must be political regulations to create that competition. Because that competition will not come from the actors who own the system today.

No, but it's obvious that they've got too much power. They're running a pretty strong lobby in this business, and it's easily said that they've done this. Yes, but I think if I had been a politician, which I unfortunately am not, I don't think I would have been able to be a politician. I don't like to pack in so much and keep doing that. No, but... You wouldn't have been a politician like that. Luckily there are still some politicians who are actually human and who speak from the liver. And it's strange that they don't get a bigger ending.

I think maybe that's the problem with changing, but those who actually say what they are, I hope it turns out, because that's what we need. I've been looking forward to driving a car tour with a guy named Per-Olaf Lundteigen. If you get the opportunity, Henrik, just say thank you. it's an adventure. If the dog asks me if I want to drive a car, I say yes. Just say yes. You are going out of that car that is smarter than the human being. The old SP legend. Yes. No, so we will have more of those. But when it comes to daily life, I think that... My suggestion, if you want to hear about it. I would love to. My suggestion, if you want to hear about it. I agree. Because I have seen how the structure is today.

We have three closed infrastructures, actually. The Norway Group system, Coop and the Rectangles system, which are still controlling the chain more and more, and which don't really want to compete on the different chains. So I thought, is there any other market in Norway where there is a similar constellation? Yes, the market for mobile phone and data communication. There you have Telenor has 1.1, Telia has 1 and Aisa has 1. And the network means they have their own masters?

Yes, physical structures. So, would you say that. Which they have built out. So in one area there would be three masters, is that important to say? Or that they have their own areas? No, all three are nationalities, to a large extent. Telenor is probably the most developed. But my point is that the authorities have said that Telenor, you are not allowed to have this as a monopoly position. You have to deliver all the services, the network that you have built out, can deliver to whom I am talking about.

In Norway we have today about 40-50 providers of mobile phones. Talk more and chess and what else. There is no chess anymore. But all the providers, the ones who offer the services to you and me. All are based on the three infrastructures that exist. Because this is what the authorities have said, okay, if we just let Telenor provide Sitnet to its own customers, Telia to its own customers and so on, then we will get an oligopoly.

In the same way as we we have in our daily market. But the authorities have said, no, you know what, we regulate this so that all three of them are obliged to deliver the services, the nets they can deliver, to whoever they are, or to everyone who wants to provide offer us that kind of service. Because we were in the Reekåring and other channels. They don't let Joker out. And then you have this thing called Joker and the food store and these small rabba-gast, which of course are pigs. Who is that? The

the the the the But I think that it will, for the first thing, reduce the power of definition for the three owners. By the fact that they actually have to, let's say, if someone comes to them and says that we want to move food from point A to point B or C and D, then they have to deliver the services. Just like Telenor has to deliver the signals to one or the other operator. Yes. So if there is any political change, we can actually go in and say,

okay, now we are making the-given talk more here. For example? I don't know what. Or maybe some people in the west, who might think that in the west, we want to make a store chain that has more local food, not only has chain standard sortiment, right? Yes. But the reason they struggle with making such concepts is because they don't let go of the logistics and distribution. Because that's what I am doing, and controlling.

So if you change this politically, you can say the Reco-Ren, which I almost don't understand, I understand that it's some kind of taking some eggs out of the trunk of a car, but then you could actually, in a dream development, see that it's okay, when I live on the corner, then you exchange a joke with the Reekoringen, for example? It's called Folkets Butik, and it's something completely different than anything else. But do you think you could have managed to get everything that doesn't have a co-shop of small producers and different good things, except that it became very expensive?

Yes, again, the chains have, they are going to have, they have built up a relatively effective effective distribution of goods. So if others can use the services to the same conditions as everyone else, then there is no reason for it to be something especially expensive. If you get... No? No. But basically, which is a bit of a hassle, the price in the store is decided by you and me. If we go into a store where they just sell the boys at the market, we are willing to pay a little more, because we get a story to buy, we get to know who the farmer is, or we get to know more than that it's just some anonymized tomatoes that can be from Norway or Morocco. Then it's just the price that matters.

It's been incredibly nice to be able to enter a food store that doesn't... I follow the Reek and Ring thing. And it's one Sunday and you have to go down to the Møllepark in Grynevek. And you have other things to do. It's cold and wet and dark. Many people are very good at it. And get a lot of good things from it. Absolutely. I would like to investigate. I think it's brilliant, but I also think we should have come further in Norway in 2025, but that is the only alternative. It would have been cool to have gotten it in... I hope, I think it's important, and I think you do a great job, so I think that even though this is a humor podcast,

maybe some of you have failed, of course. We haven't been that funny. No, but I know that there are many who ask for more podcasts like this. And I think that... Now there are some thousands who are listening, and probably some thousands who are aware of this for the first time, and then you just have to take the small steps. I will at least continue and... I have put my gloves on. But now the last thing I want to finish, I don't want to finish yet.

One thing that I... You have this incredibly exhausted term, ultra-processed. But let's not think... Let's focus on, for example, yes, it is ultra-processed, but these bags with, say, Coop's own fish soup or curry soup, which then is, where they in a way take some cheap raw materials from somewhere in the world, whatever they get, and then add some substances that make you have a lot of water that coagulates, and you can mix and mix it, and then you can set the price you want. And then you think that this is easy and simple in a hectic everyday, but it still becomes very expensive, and it becomes in no way as healthy as if you... You can do it so much cheaper and so much healthier if you have learned a little about...

People don't care about food. That's a big problem too. It's just buying a lot of good vegetables and maybe, if you can boil the power yourself, but it's also easy to do. There are many good producers of power, who don't have a lot of additional stuff in and such. We don't have to do everything ourselves. No, but you can make it so incredibly from the bottom, and you can make it so cheap. And I don't think these cost-sufficiency rules are playing a role. I know that it is very difficult to write in plain text that ultra processed that's not what we want. And then these cost-advice people will say that we write, eat, and so on, and so on, and so on. But it's a bit crazy, the whole thing. I think it's weird.

And what would happen then, hypothetically, if you had cut all ultra-processed food, if you had removed everything from the grocery stores, everything would disappear overnight, then the whole economy would collapse completely. The economy is very tied up to these products. So we have a big problem. We have a problem there. You mentioned something before we started. What was it? About ultra-processed... Was it seaweeds and cherry tomatoes?

No, it was the one you said you had come up with. It was something about not talking too much about ultra-processed food. Oh yes, yes. It was that the NOO, which represents the food industry, and has members who are served with processing of food in a certain way. Everything is not ultra processed. Processing food we do. I am not that concerned about the difference between ultra-processed and, I prefer to say, extensive processed food. They have reacted a little bit to the fact that there are voices out there that are critical to it. and is their argument that it should be seen as a certain kind of display of the claims that come from other actors, than themselves, so to speak.

I think that if that is part of the spotlight, and if we can have a proper conversation about it, that would be nice. But if it is allowed, if you are punished for talking, then it is scary scary of course. Your argument is that the food industry, it's quite strict requirements for them to be able to come up with health conditions While influencers, authors or people who have opinions about food, which fortunately have become part of the society, they believe that they can throw out claims without the same documentation levels as the food industry has. But for me it's more like, you want to have a healthy debate about what is good for us to eat.

I try not to jump on everything possible. You have Pimple and Orsen and others who will take care of absolutely everything. I think that is good in one way, but you have to be a little careful about all this. But if there is one thing that I don't care about, then it is that this campaign against the fat, and then you have white heart and a lot of plant oil and butter, and all that. Most people think that this is what you should have, and then you get stomach cramps from red meat and then sho-hai. But I don't feel that you isolate all this against all that Pepsi Max, you get a little bit of that and then you have healthy fibers in the bond, where everything is from the bond. And then there is the red meat and the fat from the butter or the liquid you have in it.

I feel that there is so much focus on that being wrong, but then there is not enough pointy fingers when it comes to all these processed, all these light-brushing, all these bags and all. I don't understand that. And I think when you have a diet that is very nice, and it's very good with them, it's not possible to say that it's for all parts, sorry to make the food from the bottom, because it will be cheaper for you and healthier for you. And then you can use good old butter, which we produce here in the country, instead of all this... I think that the plant oil in Vita is very good, that it is rap that is not hand squeezed to stir us. Or maybe not.

Or soy. You have worked a little with soy as well, haven't you? hand squeezed on the We take in much less sugar, less metafit, more fiber. We never eat much fruit and vegetables. We can't cut salt, so it's a trained status quo. And then we consume five to six times as much vegetable oils as we did 20 years ago. And yet we have never been as sick of food as we are today. Exactly. And then I completely agree with you. Is it then, what should I say, it's fine with the cost, but will will it help to just continue with the same thing? Or do we have to look at the processing level, or that...

Many of the reasons for processing is actually... The food industry wants us to eat more than we need, and more often than we need. Of course, it gives more juice, so they wonder. So, you know, we can take a very simple example. Take corn and we eat and laugh in the stone, we get full after a few pieces, I think, or two or three. Okay, so we are full. We eat raw food. But we go and buy a pack of cheese noodles,

both you and me, and then we have no chance to stop being able to eat. We are gaffled. And if it is an economic package, we are spending what we have what we can without needing it. That's a lot of the strategy for the food industry. We're just creating a need that we don't have, or that we're not given the so-called and the poor nutrition that doesn't give us a feeling of fatigue. And I just keep on eating. It's a long story.

I think I have researched a bit. I try to make some changes here and there. And if it works very well for me over a long time, I try to have some scientific knowledge at the time. I try as well as I can to isolate a bit and just understand what actually has an effect and doesn't. One thing that I have been, I have been throwing myself on that mouth tape trend, because I was sleeping at night, snoring, and was so dry in my mouth as hell. And then it turned out that I am fantastic when I talk about NATO.

You know what, I breathe through my nose, and I have a moist mouth, I wake up and everything is very good. I feel I am wild, stop, then I do that. Then there are some who are just like, it's just a joke, okay, fine, you can do what you want. Then I have had a story about being a worm in the stomach before a long time, to say the least. And tried to make some changes there, so I have been on fast food, and I am still doing it, because it also works very well for me. And it's not anything violent. It's just that I eat a meal of 6-7, and then I don't try to eat any calories for 16-20 hours,

if I am good. And it also works very well. I feel both concentrated and relaxed and good in all ways. So now I have also gone over to test a low carbohydrate. And it is completely... we do not need much carbohydrate, but anyway we get a lot of it. I don't think I'm going to do it. A lot of energy then?

A lot of energy, and a lot of people need that. But for a half-dick like me, I don't think I need that much pasta. We are not at the top of the list. My body doesn't scream after the dureum, you know. So instead of eating three bread slices with buttocks and a box of stabbur, a liver bag and a di-todate, I went over to eat… When I eat first, I just eat a grilled beef and then I take an

orange and I cook two or three eggs and then I eat, I just eat a golden root, I eat it, and then I eat an orange, and I cook two or three eggs, and then I have an avocado, and just those kinds of things. And the feeling of the meat, I feel like I take a lot of protein and fat, than the carbohydrates. It's just... It's violent. It surprises me a lot what kind of results you have. I feel full in a good way, and it lasts a long time. I can eat... I make for example a stew. I use a lot of good things. I and some flour, I use a lot of good power, I mean the rawest we have. And sometimes I like to make the power myself, but it takes time. I order from... now it's something called...

With the electricity prices it might get a bit expensive. Yes, that's right. And I have a son too, and having a lot of vegetables pieces and such, I could do that myself, but he doesn't like having a lot of paprika pieces and such, so I make, I fry up a heap of nice vegetables, and then I have some lentils and some beans and stuff up there, I have had some tomatoes and some tomato puree. And then I mix the puree of the wildest things with that, and it becomes a kind of healthy bolognese with lots of nutrients. And that is so nice when I spend so much time on it, and he likes it, and I don't need, it's so good to see that I don't need so much pasta besides that. So I have tried several times to just eat that, things like that, and you

should think that without all this pasta you get very hungry again, but I feel it's the other way around. I feel if you have more pasta than that thing, then you will quickly get hungry again. I agree. And that consciousness, I think, we must get, that consciousness must settle in people, I think. I have tried that now, and I know that things are individual, but I think that is a blind way for us, that we should have so many carbohydrates in our diet. But I understand that it is, if everyone should just eat,

then we would have had a completely different, maybe more utilized potential in our country's use to a greater extent. To get a little... But of course, corn is relatively cheap to produce. It is very cheap to produce. So it is cheap in relation to energy content. Of course, the corn is relatively cheap to produce. It's very cheap to produce. It's cheap in relation to the energy content. That's why it's said that corn is the master of the world.

But I think it's a cool story, because what it gives in addition to you, I'm not going to share everything. Or the two of us over the same fight. No, but you get that feeling of mastery. It's pretty nice now. When I've made something for my kids, which I've actually made myself. I love that myself. I'm not good at cooking, but I love to cook something for my kids.

So we get at least one meal a day. I see him eating this and I think it's good. Because I made it in a way that he can eat it. And I know that every dish he is eating now is a lot of nutrition. It's closely behind nutrition. If you eat a finished, Bolognese-like version with a lot of pasta and a lot of shit, there is no nutrition in pasta screws. There is very little of it. It's filled with stuff. What is he supposed to do with with filling? He needs the opposite. And I've heard that there's this fear propaganda that they're going to get too much milk.

I mean, it's much better that he drinks milk. Milk is a drug. It's so weird. No, it's so weird. But I couldn I can talk longer about it. And it's strange, with a lot of dairy products, the more dehydrated they are, easy and super easy, and in the end it's almost just water again that you buy. That should be good. I don't think so. I would rather think, if you absolutely don't need too much fat, and that's the case for some people, then maybe don't drink a whole carton of whole milk, but rather drink a moderate amount of it. So it's better to take what you need of milk during the day, than to drink extra light or? Or skummedmjellet? Yes, I think I got to serve four hours of milk here a while ago.

I couldn't drink a little, but I was full after half a bottle. Because there is something about that, and that's what we are working on right now, that the food industry, in order to make sure we eat more than we need, more often than we need, has to make sure the food industry is quite low in those products. It's something really crazy here, I have to say. I think we are in a farm, and I think many are in a farm to understand that. It seems so, fortunately. Yes. Shall we end with the old ski tour you had many years ago?

Yes, that's possible. It was a studio friend who, a year ago, for a very of mine, who for a while thought it was a good idea that we boys should go skiing from Rena to Lillehammer. Our training team was pretty much a golf course of varying quality, no one was trained that way. None of us was very trained. But we set it up. And then at the hotel, it's strange, you manage to pick up these guys who have walked the birch a hundred times, you see them, right? So we asked for advice. You were thirsty for advice? Thirsty for advice. We knew nothing, we didn't know what we were up to or anything. So we asked for advice on food. Or actually only two things. It was buttering and what we were two things. It was buttering.

And what should we eat? Skismøring. Skismøring, of course. So we got a lot of advice on both skismøring and food. I think that with skismøring I had a little trouble with us. Because I had baked it to ski all the way up to Skrømmstad etc. And had to stack it down from Skjursøen to Lilleammer. But you can go... I have also been advised about buttering,

so I couldn't do it anyway. No, no. There is probably something with him on the ski to do. But anyway, the really good advice we got was food. It was simple. Eat as much sea ​​fruit as you can. And when you are done with it, you eat a little more. And that's what got me over that mountain. It wasn't the ski technique. If I had followed my instincts and ate a kind of continental breakfast that day,

with Cheerios or something croissants or something like that. I'm sure that there would have been a stop on Skramstad etc. So I think that's a bit like the food industry thinks. Sell us something that doesn't contain so much food, so that you have to buy more. And then you keep it. In addition, in the store today, it costed a fifth of the price of a Cheerios, which does not contain any special nutrients to talk about. So that got me over the mountain at least. I am happy that you work with these things, that you take care of them.

And I hope I can live for another 10-15 years that we have managed to turn this around, The Nærbutik is a shop that the farmers are happy with, where they get a kind of skin, and the local producers get everything we can make here in the country. And that we manage to get rid of them, and that we run a mobile, ISO, Telenor variant, as we talked about. It must be done. Is it allowed for you to say, if you are going to make a choice? I don't know how much you can say about who is most for the different generations. Is it? Is it your friends, your colleagues, is there something? I think most of the parties realize that the competition in the daily market is too bad. And then there is a little different will to actually do something about it.

And a little different understanding of how these markets actually work and such. But they struggle and still struggle with... They realize that there is a problem, but what do we do? Yes, it is common knowledge and political criticism works very well. They may not seem to have much on their minds. No, you can say that. But I think that those who go out on the fact that the system is like it is today, that's you and me. Who is it that is the consumer? We are the voters.

So there shouldn't be a lack of motivation among our politicians to make changes that lead to a bettering for most people. Really. Not just in the holidays. But it's nice to be able to sit on it a little bit now, so you have the opportunity to all these politicians who are standing around, in Kaluhande, for us who live in Oslo, and who are standing around all over Norway, who are willing to talk to them, ask them questions.

I know at least what I should ask them. I have a lot to ask them, but this is one of the things. Isn't there anything more important than food? No, there isn't. Food and water. And as you say, it's strange that we get so fucking sick when we eat so fucking right, and so many easy products! Anders, thank you for coming in! Thank you for allowing me to come in, it's very nice!

Thank you to you who are listening and I hope you got more than one! Okay, bye! Have you got a simple business or a small company? Blah blah blah blah blah. Fiken? Super simple business.