Fladseth - #232 - Gunnar Tjomlid

Episode Date: March 28, 2025

Gunnar er tilbake! Alt fra denne sexbyen vi snakket om sist til mrna-vaksine mot kreft. Få det i øra.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Gunnar Tjomli, back. You have worked in an IT-concern, and you had the right to have Christmas dinner, far out in March, on a Tuesday. So you came here, you are a professional. Skalle Bank, you say? No, Skalle Bank is actually IT, I would say, it's mostly Lamagig or something like that. We are a small company, and we have people who are sitting everywhere. So when we have a general meeting like it is with those who are shareholders, we have to find a place where everyone can come to. And then they like to be in Oslo.

And it's so expensive and difficult for people to get there. We have always done it that we have Christmas tables after general meetings, because then we have to beat two birds with one stone. And then you take some time before the rain is going to be cleared. Then I was a bit away, and then the others were away. And then the first date we got to get ready for it was yesterday. I think it was March 25th. So it was the Christmas Eve on March 25th. So it was the lively bunch of you. Are you going to guess? No? There are only four of us now.

Two of them are old. 60 plus. They control everything. And then there is me and another one who is kind of a employee, who is a bit younger. I'm still the same age. Do you code or do you do it? Yes, 95% of the time I do it. But I'm a daily leader in the company, but I've been doing it for 25 years now.

So it's both support, programming, technical things, sales, customer meetings, design, everything. If I were to give a tip to everyone out there, should you take a basic code course? Or is that on the way out again? Or is it going to be forever relevant? To understand the language. That's a question. I was critically interested in the idea of learning kids and coding. I thought, why should they do that? It's just for those who want to do it, not everyone needs it.

At the same time, I discussed it in a live stream and it came up to me that if you take higher education in a lot of different things, you end up in a way with programming. Not like the classic way of developing programs, but more like if you work with statistics programs and all that, then it's a kind of basic programming. Like in Badeborg, you have to write formulas with an Excel calculator. And it's useful to have with you, like very basic coding can be useful to teach people, but if you don't want to work with it, you don't see the point in teaching it. It's not about reading, of course, that there who know the language, they control the world a little. And I just saw a little interview about what they... No, one who talked about Black... No, what's it called? Dark Web. And then I realized that, damn, it's because it's not only me in it at all.

There are people who know these things, and Dark Web is one thing, but I feel all these things about cooking, data, storage, there is so much that you don't have a clear overview of. So to start with coding and understand the language behind it, it would also give you some insight into the mechanisms in the game. Don't you think so? Yes, in many ways. I think you have a lot... Everything is data today. And understanding a little of how things work is of course useful, both with regard to your own safety and what you use later. But at the same time I always compare programming with... You mentioned poetry and writing, I always compare programming with...

You mentioned poetry and writing, but for me, programming is poetry. You can teach people grammar, but that doesn't mean they become poets. And coding is sometimes a bit sceptical. You can teach people basics in coding, but very few become good programmers. It requires some skills, some talents, that you can teach people to play a piano, but they don't become good classical pianists. That's true. But for me, I really can't code without making a frame for it. Because when you... The hackers, if you watch a movie, that gets sent in, you have to stop this, and then you start hammering loose with a lot of different letters,

but you don't understand a thing. What frames do they work within? It depends, you can do so much. If you are really hard core, if you are really good, you can work completely down to the classic data machine, the zero and one. Everything is zero and one. Zero and one means that it is either power or it is not power,

so everything is just power that goes through the processor. And then you have a little bit higher... So in theory you could just put in zeros and ones and that's it. So it's as simple as having a green light and then you have no light at all. And if you turn on the green light and not, then there is no light. And everything that happens in a program on your mobile phone or a computer, is just that it moves the numbers from one place in memory to another. You can work in that way with assemblers, where you are at the

lowest level, where you basically tell the processor the move value that is in that memory segment and put it together with the value that you find in that memory segment, and then you store it in that memory segment. But then it's at a very basic level, so that's why I make programming languages that make it a little more human. Where you write more understandable words. And then it is translated from the computer to assemblers that actually just move the values from different memory areas back and forth.

There are some millions of words that are just a kind of makeup signals that all computer understand. Yes, but there are a lot of programming languages. Yes, right. Just like English, German and Spanish. Oh my god! I have programmed a few different languages

in the morning, but now I primarily work with a language that I feel I can handle. But it depends on what you are going to do. If you are going to make an app, you use one language. If you are going to make a website, you use another language. It is often that the language is more suitable for the different contexts of what you are working with. But everything is made for it to be human. If you know the basics, you can read the code and understand what's happening. But the computer doesn't really care about what you write. Before the computer does that, it's the one that's overwritten with basic instructions that move values. And in all this,

that can just dive down into this language and... AI is so fun! Yes, but if you put two AIs up against each other, you have the Russian AI AI, and then you have the American AI, or whatever it is, or the Ukrainian AI, for that matter, that just sits and and watch each other. And actually it's like a normal defense and attack war.

When you just... You... What is it called? Program the AI to just totally destroy the infrastructure on the other side of the world. And then the A can...

You know, if they learn themselves, they will just stand in a line against each other in defense and attack. As in a war, until the other is completely out of range. And then you go into the deepest and just screw everything, just like that. No green light at all. Down with you. Down with you. You know? Is there anything in there? No green light at all. Down with you. Do you understand? It's what chess computers do. It's two AI's fighting each other.

In a very formalized version. What is it? My only AI is Dødske. I talked about it in my podcast in the previous year. I get irritated when people criticize what we call AI-doms, which are LLM or large language models, which are just text generators in the first place.

Because people say, oh, you can't sit on a jet-cap and blah blah. No, but you have to be specific, because I'm totally dependent on AI today, in the way I work. The two reasons for that are that I use AI- in programming, and it still feels like magic. I can sit and think, fuck, I should have done this and that, but I don't remember or I don't know the best way to do it. So I just ask, so in that program I use the code, you can just press a test combination and then you go up a small text field, and I can write a question, and Ayn generates the code for me. And Ayn always understands what I want, even if I don't know what I want. I don't know how to formulate questions properly.

But it understands the clue, it sees the context of the code and automatically understands what I want to do. And then it just comes. And because it is just very important what you write. I don't use the right words, but I like to understand how I want it. Isn't it like a language learning model, that it just mediates the context a little, and mediates itself forward, so then you don't have to be very precise, or maybe? No, because it depends on statistical connections between words,

and based on all the billions of words he has processed, he knows that the others have used the words he thinks they are, and so on. It's fascinating. And I wrote about it on Facebook half a year ago, and I wrote a vision of the future, that when AI comes more and more, traffic will go to the next place, and it will drop a lot. And it would have made it so extreme for me. What do you mean by that? Earlier I was in the internet hundreds of times a day. I would write a blog post and research topics,

or talk about something in the podcast, but I would research it. Earlier I used Google and wrote in a question. Then you get a list with the website. Then you click on it. No, that wasn't it. Then you click on the next one. Read a little, no, that wasn't it. I was on a hunt. Then you click on the next one. Read a little, no, that wasn't it. I was on a hunt.

Then you have to click on many websites to find the information of what was on a hunt. But isn't there any indirect search for AI through Google? Or is that how it works? That the AI gets information from there? Yes, both. It's a combination of AI already having a lot of information, already has the answer. But in addition to the new services, you can often ask him to search the web in addition. If he doesn't already have that information, he can go in and search the web and find it. The point is that I do this all the time.

I don't use Google anymore, I just go in and use Perplexity, which is a service that is AI-based, search function. And then I just get the finished answer. But the nice thing about it is that it shows all the files it has used. So you get a list of all the the places it has found the information on. So you can double check and then click on it and verify. And I have to do that if I'm not sure what to write. But very often the number of netizens I visit has dropped to about one per mile

than it was two years ago. I've seen many on YouTube people on YouTube talking about how marketing people promote their own business, and that they have more money to have a website. Because people won't visit the website in a few years. They just ask for the I, and then they get the answer. So it changes dramatically with the use of the internet. So if someone has heard that I have a show, for example, they will just ask for aeg. But I do that.

Is there a link to that show? Yes, I have already done that. As with Dag, if I should try to sell that photo book, I think I should sit on some shows. Dag is listening to us, and you have made a photo book for him. No. I hope not all listeners are exactly what it is. I followed Dag on tour last year and ended up with a photo book about his life on tour, which will be released this fall, which everyone can order in my online store. Which is called? Which is always hard to say. It's shop.shop.qualia.qualia.no

Or just search for Dagslys on the way with Dag Søvrøs. Just ask Aie. Just ask the one who is going to have a show with Kristian Sandestår. And then I get it. And you're going to write, or are you just sitting and talking? I can do that, but I'm not so comfortable with talking to Aie. Even Aie isn't comfortable. A1. You are not comfortable with setting an A1? We talked about it last time, and you are a very interesting person, a nice guy, who needs to get up in the numbers and get some time to appreciate you and get to know you. You have been Asperger's for a while now,, is a form of specter. Since last year I have got the formal diagnosis of Asperger's. Congratulations.

It was critical last year, but I was right. My congratulations are sent over. And social anxiety. I have got the diagnosis. And as I said last year, you work really well in the opposite direction, because you have social anxiety and social... It's not the wrong way to put it, but the management has put in some other places, so you have some social challenges in small talk situations and such.

But you still wonder, as we were in the last one, you mean that the normal thing is to sit and take a nap at a fortouse café, and the abnormal thing is to sit and nap in the shelter and put a lid on it, not talk about it. Is that the opposite or...? It's not really a opposite, because it's a very autistic thought, I don't understand why things are like that. I don't understand why the social rules should be there, because if I don't have a injury, why is it wrong to do that? It's very straightforward for me, that I struggle to understand why everyone else is so dependent on all the norms and rules and codes and social rules and stuff, because for me it's just like that, then it's like that. Simple and good. I agree a little. If we are to break it down, there is a reason why, at least in a civilized society,

it is common not to be so open about sex and those intimate things. This has a lot to do with the church and religion. I think that one should not be a whore. Sex is holy. It's a way to control people, I feel. To regulate people's... It has created the feeling of shame. Shame is an important thing, to control people. I've been thinking about it a bit. We talked about it last time. What was the name of the city you talked about in France? Cap d'Agde. Cap d'Agde. There is so much in me that I want to go there. But it would be very violent if they were to break me. It's clear that it's both interesting and crazy fun, because you haven't heard it before.

You have to hear it before the game. It's a small town, you can come there, pay a small entrance ticket, and then it's a very open, free sex, a very hyper-liberal place. And it's not just sex, but there are probably several things you do there, or? Which are open and free? You do a bit of what you want to do yourself. It's not like if you go in there you have to be someone or do something. There are many that are just... For me, I'm not that much of an extrovert there.

Also because of a few things I haven't done. But generally I just like that atmosphere. I'm very liberal and people... I just like the vibe. I think all the basics I can agree with, you just have to wipe away a couple of barriers that are imprinted in you. I've thought about it a bit, I'm not that kind of being, but I think it's something exciting and exciting. But I think I have been very humorous, so I wanted to struggle with not thinking it was funny or something. And then I struggle, I don't get tired when I'm in the humorous corner. It must be a different setting. For me it's a bit of therapy, because that's how I grew up, with quite a strict relationship to my own body,

and low self-esteem on the outside and everything like that. Everything was overweight and... So the first time I tried that with naturism, and actually said, fuck it, now I'm going to throw the clothes here, shh, expose me. Then it was, and it's also a cliché and stuff, but it was actually very therapeutic. It was a freeé, but it was actually very therapeutic. It was a free-giving thing.

And the times I was in the cup, it was always a bit exhausting. Especially the first day, maybe the second day, it felt like, oh, I'm going to climb this wall. But then it becomes much more natural. And this has helped me a lot with self-image. I've always said that if you struggle with self-image, try to work with the naturists, because the exposure therapy is actually quite healthy. And a normal naturist like that has nothing sexual to do with himself.

Naturism has nothing to do with sex. No. Cap d'Agde is a little more special, because it has become a little infiltrated, swinger people and kinky people and a little more sexualized in general. But is it a little like a win-win situation if you are not interested in lying and getting beaten up on the beach there, then you can also just take a little beach walk and then you get that view. I think I would probably prefer that. I wouldn't have any problem with that. What about the one who sits in the bushes and breathes heavily?

I wouldn't want to be him either, you know? Because you talked about it last time, that you were sitting and kneeling a little, and what happened with a beautiful girl down there on the beach, and then there were several men up to several rungs men and maybe some finger women as well, as far as I know, who sat in the bushes and enjoyed their time in the hut. I think that would have been even worse for me, to be in the bushes like that. But I don't know, I haven't even tried it, maybe I think it's completely wrong. No, and that's what's annoying, because when I was there, I was there a few times alone, and sometimes with a woman.

And when you're with a woman, you feel like, okay, now I have the right to be here. I'm alone, like, when you're alone as a man, you're impossible and don't feel like a creep. And the weird thing is, I think it mentality fascinating, the classic thing about how you... ...value things outside of the situation. When I was alone as a man, it was like, I'm allowed to be here, just like you, and I'm not crazy, I'm standing here watching, and it's a bit of a thing here, that people like to be exhibitionist and stuff. But at the moment, I'm there with a lady, and when a man is standing there looking at me, I'm like, fuck you, what the fuck is that?

I remind myself that shit, it's me and the guy who was there, with his ass and stuff. That's not true. But you have to, on a certain level, point out that you're a little creep there as well. If you don't like yourself as a creep at can you stand up and stand on your back? If you reveal yourself and don't find it attractive at all, how can you do that? You have to like that as well. Not everyone has that fetish. It's about overcoming the shame of something you don't like about yourself. Maybe. But if you try to put yourself in your shoes as one, not in a company, it's like you can't lower yourself to sit in the bush in that way,

like the other pigs, so you don't have to be in the bush, you can basically sit right next to them and just... I'm not their bush rascal, I can sit here and have a proper rest. I find all kinds of people down there, there's always someone who is extremely annoying. Who is annoying, yes. Who doesn't understand how intimate the boundaries are, who is a bit weird to say, but there is always a guy who... In our country, there are some people you just recognize, like this guy. He goes around and creeps on people and sits right next to someone who is sexy and ugly, and I don't understand that this is not okay. Isn't there a justice, internal justice, on the, where people just take the roof off.

Now we have told you, let them sit and hug each other, because I am free. Get away from him, and take him home. I would think so. At least in a swinger club or in a swinger environment, you don't let go of anything. You can't just go away and test on someone else. You have to ask for permission in different subtle ways, you don't let go of the money with anything. You can't just go away and throw it at someone. You should ask for permission in different subtle ways, test the limits a bit and so on.

I saw that swing documentary of Volkan V. He had one on VGTV. I've seen that one, but I haven't seen it. And I've seen it before as well, so I know that there are very strict rules. But I don't it's not... It's a bit like the gray zone, you know? You said last time that it's not allowed to have sex there, but there is a lot of money in it,

so they look through their fingers at it. And then they have to... It's the same thing, I was just at the Yuge in Gran Canaria, and down at the side of the island there, there's a lot of glass and mospalomas and stuff. On that beach there in the middle, there's a nudist section. If you walk in the sand dunes in the so called mospalomas,

the island is in a difficult area with sand and a few bushes. If you walk around there, you see a lot of sexy people in the bushes and people who are looking at you. So it's a bit of a cap-day situation, and that's not allowed either. But it's not the police who patrol, so you can let go of it. I personally don't have anything... I hadn't been afraid of the underwear. I've experienced it a couple of times. At least once when we were on the trip.

Me and my friends Chris and Øystein were on a trip to Croatia, me and my friends Chris and Øystein, on a trip to Var, and we were going out to a beach party, and we ended up in another island, which was very calm, and not too much for the old people, especially the older people. We found a place in Rome, there were some long girls who had to calibrate to young girls in light clothes. So it wasn't what we had seen before, but it was an experience. And we went there. There are some round people around the districts. So we shouldn't be shocked. There was one person who suddenly walked one step forward from a tree and just stood round. And I didn't do anything.

For me it's almost comical, but do you think he gets hurt by me laughing and not taking it seriously? Or do you think he will lighten up the laughter? All kinds of people, some people lighten up. But the problem is that we have created a culture where it's natural to cover up what should be unnatural to everyone. Yes, if you think about it, if you go back a long way, especially in a animalistic state state, it is very natural. Yes, and the naturalness of the nose is the most natural thing in the world.

It doesn't hurt anyone to have a nose. So why have we done that to something that is completely taboo, in many ways, and dangerous and shameful? That mentality always turns itself away, even more ration rational, when I'm not in the mood. And our days are a week of regular life, and coming back to Norway, the world is always absurd. Why does the world go all dressed up? Why do we feel so ashamed? But it's still like that, everyone is throwing a ruckus in and out, but we can't talk about it too much. No. Which is just... Both yes and no.

In some environments it's very taboo. In other environments, when I come out with friends, both boys and girls, it's not taboo. People are comfortable with it, but it's not like you write on Facebook that tonight I'm going to have a stand-up comedy show, when I'm going to go get a drink. No, that's completely wrong. Even if you've probably done that. You can write that I'm going to go out and get a drink first, that's fine. But you can't write that I'm going to get a drink. You can do that as often as possible. You can say that to friends.

You're going to shower with a ronka. And at parties and stuff like that, when you're younger, it's not unusual if you don't sit in a ronka chair, there's a lot of clothing and there's one door in between, a lot of sex and... There's a barrier in between. There's not a swing club around parties in this country. No, that's not it. My point is not that I want everyone to sit around and have fun everywhere. Yes, that's what you want. That's what you want. I think in addition to that, I understand that even I don't have any other desire than for God and every man to have fun around.

But I'm similar to the thought of, I think it was Ole Mart, sorry if I put words in his mouth, but I have a vague feeling that the philosopher Ole Martin Mohn is someone who came up with the idea that it should be, and I think there are some places in the world where it should be parks, where it's allowed to have sex. Because then you can choose, if you have the youth with you, you don't go to that park. Then you choose to go without it. But that it should be forbidden to they are forbidden to do that.

It's like a natural beach. That some beaches, there you can dress naked. There are some beaches. I don't know if it's... I feel almost all swinger beaches are in one way or another not allowed. But they look a little through the fingers. But in theory, there should be a place where you can choose to do the things. That you have a park in Oslo and it's like this.

Here you can lie naked. And if you end up having sex, no one cares. And those who like it can go there, and those who don't can go to another park. Yes, I totally agree. Soppas, I'm probably totally in agreement with that. I'm a bit of a fan of that we have to regulate a bit, and you have a Christian area, for example, that you share a bit, where everyone can get the permission to do what they want. But we are quite far away from this, unfortunately. But it might be a bit better. I think six is longer back than smoking weed. I think so too. I think we've come a long way, but with regard to legalization or

the Russian reform, she's in with the sex reform. I think that's going to be my new fucking... I think it's both interesting and funny. I have learned that it's taboo and off-limits to be so sexually out-agent. That's why I get these feelings. I have a lot of bits like Runken King and Sex and Neddy Hundeboksen. Because there is a lot of comedy in it. I find it funny.

But if I ask one thing with that eye, is it alpha? You see? The brown alpha. And do they get a taste of being alpha? Because it's a little like the Chimp Empire over it, because it's so free and a little expensive. I see that some people run around the Bromel Basin. I don't know, there's no good answer.

Have you been there? Have you seen some sparse alphas with a lot of gold chains? Yes, but if they have any big sexual success, I don't have any. But of course there are some who like to... But it's the same with the place I mentioned last time. It's not very much... That's why I often say that I think it's easy... I was in Cape D'Agnes, no, in Gran Canaria now.

I have a much higher tolerance for going to the beach in a swimming suit. Because there are a lot of other people who are maybe... In Gran Canaria, there are over 60 people, so it's not very much. But if I'm in a place with a few younger people, I see hot people with fit bodies. and I feel really out of place. But if I go to a naturalist, I see a completely different mentality. I am easier to put my nose in a place and sunbathe than to put my bathing suit on, because the mentality among people feels very different.

What I like about Cup Day is that it's not like there are a lot of hot people around, it's a lot of people. But the majority are pretty well-grown people. And that's what I think is so nice when you see me, grandmother at 80, walking around in corsets, piercing in nipples, piercing in the lips. Everyone is just themselves. And it's not about being sexy, it's more about being myself. Fuck everyone. You're right. I don't know. I could have gone with the ball. There are several places. You have the spa and the nail spa.

What's that? It's a place outside of Oslo. I it's a natural spa outside of Oslo. I didn't know there was such a natural spa. It's a natural spa at Linderud. No, it's a well known spa. Oh, at The Well. And there's a new spa now, right next to me, at Sagenban. Yes, it's just opened.

You can also have a few days where you can... It's a naturalist mini-golfing at a Oslo camping or whatever you call it. It's a bit funny, but it comes to a point where it feels a bit exhausting. This is supposed to be done naked, just because you're a naturalist. This is not an activity we really need to do. It's a circus. But for a part. Why not?

What do you think, if it wasn't in relatively modern times, with churches and religions, when did we start to become more aware of our own body and sex, and when did it happen? Because we can think of a long timeline here, where we were just as chimpanzees as we were modern people. Many, many, many millions years back. But it has been many years since you have gradually become more conscious of when you think you will get that kind of consciousness. Because before we, as the chimpanzees, as we call it, the chimpanzee empire, it wasn't just super alphas that made a fuss, all the ladies. The chimpanzees have different types of leadership structures, which is very interesting. But if we are quite like the chimpanzees, we have been completely wrapped around the screen at one time,

and then it has gone to that now. I'm not a historian, but it's one of the things that irritates me that there is so much here in society. I think that it's just because we choose to do it that way. I was born in Tanzania, my parents lived in Africa for many years, and my father often told me that there were some people who worked as teachers, I don't know if it was some kind of student of his or something like that, they would go on a class trip and they would sit in the truck on a truck or a pickup truck or something, drive somewhere, and my father was a very keen photographer at the time. He took some pictures.

And in that they owned a long shirt. And in that long shirt, he took a picture of some people from the group. And she was surprised because in that she took the shirt up and put it on. We saw her uncle. And that is very taboo. The ankle, but they went completely naked. The chest was bare. And that was no stress. But the ankle, you couldn't take pictures of it, because it was the same as showing the boobs in Norway.

The ankle was their boobs. And that's what it becomes so obvious, this is just socially constructed. No nature has led the boobs to be be taboo to show or something. You have to cover it up. Which is just constructed in the rules in the head, which is completely absurd. Yes, now the dolls have both erogenous zones, which are used as a food shield, as a food valve. There are more things around it, especially in the orogen zones, which are the parts of the body in the areas where there are most orogen zones.

My breast is less sensitive than a woman's breast. For me, my breast is an extreme orogen zone. I can lie down and just wake up if I want. I don't like to do that. For me, breaststroke is very sexualized. I don't understand it completely. I don't know what it is. I'm just trying to find...

That's the argument that's often used. But again, I have to take a step back. But I think it makes sense, because it's a neurogenetic zone. Should it not be allowed to expose it? I think it would have created a much greater naturalness around it. There is a naturalist podcast called The Naturist, I don't remember the name anymore, but I've heard a few episodes, just curiously, of an American podcast. There they had two episodes where they invited a researcher who went through all the research literature on naturalism to see how it affects people, especially children who grow up in

a naturalistic environment or in a naturalistic family. And then they make it so that they get a better cell to a little body-wise and so on. It's a bit difficult to be sure, because first of all, there hasn't been any research on this since perhaps the late 80s, because now if you try to research it now, you're declared as a pedophile and a schema. So there's no new research on it, unfortunately, which is very sad, because it should be. But the research there looks out in the direction of that they open up, when you interview them again in adulthood, they have a much larger self-esteem around their own body and less body complexes and everything. It looks like there are a lot of positive effects of that.

What I would like to see research on is, as a sexual overuse person, if you are exposed to negativity, then they are gone. That it loses a some of their excitement. That you are more concerned with having sex with a person you actually like, because that gives you something. But having sex just because you want to wear a random pub, not so exciting anymore because it's exposed. I thought about that actually.

I don't know if there is any good data on that, but for me it would have given meaning in a way that if you normalize something, it wouldn't have felt so exciting anymore. No, I was thinking that you would have had the same amount of sex have never been in contact with other people, they have covered themselves up. Maybe they have covered themselves up to run the pubs loose, but there is always a small arrangement with palm leaves and such parts of the body. It varies a bit, often they are topless, and the breasts are generally self-sufficient. The boobs are often only holy and enough in many cultures.

And is it something? Because it is something very special and holy understand why, when you see how many rituals and things that have come up throughout the years, I can understand that there are a lot of things around that. I can understand that. I would still think that it means that I suffer under the same complexes that I do. It's not like I'm sitting with my father more than I do. So if I have chosen to cover myself, it's like, yes, because it's a tendency that agriculture develops, apparently. The idea that it's something special with art and the like, and I have to, in addition to that, if I had a jungle with insects and snakes and I would have covered it with a chicken. I don't want a snake hanging in it. Or a wild boar in front of it.

The snake can crawl through the palm tree. The luring. But shall we close this book here a bit? I have something to research in this podcast, which is a segment where I ask your three, let's just take three, three most important things, or the things you like best to talk about in a conversation? If you don't think about neither the conversation partner, the listener, or the ethics and morals, do you have a rigid top three thing? What are you best at talking about?

And maybe we drop that you should not totally talk about the listener, because it is still a bit out of shape. But what do you really love and talk about? You should forget a bit about everything. One of the diagnosis criteria for getting Asperger's diagnosis is that you have a very narrow interest range. Which is again, difficult with small talk, because I'm not interested in most things. There are a few things I think it's fun to talk about, and if you don't want to talk about that, I would rather be alone.

But I have a question for you, Knytti. Would you be able to pull a small talk over to something more special and more narrow? That's a bit're writing about. Maybe, but I manage to do one minute with small talk and then stop for a while and then I don't know what to talk about. Like when I was out here when I came in, I was waiting to talk to someone and I don't remember the names of the people, but I'm working. And then I started talking about something that was interesting to me,

like Trump and things like that. Then I can talk for quite a long time. But most of all it's difficult. My favorite topic is sex. Check. I think it's infinitely fascinating. Probably because I grew up with a lot of shame around sexuality and body. I grew up in a Bible belt.

I never talked about it. It was not a topic. it belonged to the truth. But I was always interested in understanding and learning more about things. So it has become a hyperfocus that I love to hear about people's experiences, how they shape themselves sexually. I just understand that. I think it shapes people more than many people. Maybe think about how much sex is actually a joy, when everything comes to an end. Sex is what defines the person. Did you know that?

And then of course there is a topic that I think is... I don't know. It's about understanding how people think, the discussions around the world. How can you be, for example, a relatively prominent researcher like Peter McCullough. Who is he? He is a cardiologist and is very popular. He went into the field of Covid and he was been totally anti-vaccine. I get so fascinated by people who can't understand that they have to continue to work. A very autistic trait is the ability to see through things,

and that you don't have any hidden motives, no facade. That's what I've always been burning with in my blog. When I write blog posts about things, I just write things the way they are. And then I get misunderstood, because it's neurotypical. Often the tendency is to think that you mean something else, and they read things in your text. No, I don't do that. If I write that most of the abuse against children

is reduced to people who are not diagnosed with paedophilia. Paedophilia is caused by the few people who are committing suicide. Often it is people who are responsible for the problems of the uterus, depression, availability. Many years ago, many people said that it is okay to commit suicide for children. You mean to try to clean and wash the paedophilia? That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm just stating the facts with statistics on this. And it's fascinating because it depends on the perception people have. If you just lock in all the pedophiles, then it's a problem with overreaction towards others.

No, but that's not it. They only do it to a lesser extent. And I just want to add that I notice that after the influencers had their approach, that everyone has opinions, and often the opinion bearer is probably some old Rosa bloggers and influencers, it's incredibly emotional, that the truth almost drowns of time in my own podcast to think about it. If you really believe in something, then what you say, saying something with totally hidden motives, or because you have a win over it in a certain area, even if you don't really believe in it, is so strange to me. It's strange to others that I can care so much about it, but it's not my brain that I try to find out. Can you put the suffering of today around the world, and wars and atrocities, in a historical perspective? Because it's actually the truth. It's not as bad today as it was just a few hundred years ago. from a historical perspective, for example. Because that is the fact in society,

that it is not as bad today as it was just a few hundred years ago. So the present situation around Europe, with both gas and Ukraine and such, is actually normal. So why sit and sit and cry and feel so much on their way? It is 100% normal. Something like that, could you wrap yourself up in it? That's problematic, and it's hard to write about.

Yes, I mean... To get through it, I don't know, but it's a kind of truth. I once wrote... I've written some things that people have reacted to, of course. Once I wrote a blog called My Daughter Is Not Everything For Me. Or something like that, I think it was the title, something like that. But my point was that it was in the Syrian war and the refugee crisis and such. And the idea that it dried up, I don't remember the exact number, but it dried up shockingly, shockingly many children on the way across the Mediterranean

in the pursuit of escape escape Europe and security. But we don't really care about that. And strictly speaking, I should care about the same as about a five year old girl who drowned in the Mediterranean, whom I have never met or known, about my own daughter who drowned. But we don't do that, we are not even close close to it, we don't care about what's close to it. But why do we do that? I can't find a logic in it. Either that I have evolved

or am I just Richard Dawkins or the Selfish Gene or am I just a machine that exists to promote my own genes. And since my data is 50% of my genes I'm more likely to save her genes than a wild stranger, who I share much less gene material with.

That's a very clear conclusion. It is, but we are smarter than that. If we follow that logic, we should avoid raping all the women I saw, because the goal is to spread my genes, that's the most important thing, but I don't do that either, because I've learned that you should take care of people, and it's more important to spread your own genes. But I'm still accepting that genetic perspective when it comes to human values. But that violence thing is the most primitive thing in us, and even in the animal world there are animals that take offense. And when it comes to Lomo sapiens, we have become powerful because we have had social bonds. And that has been super important in the upper class.

So the fact that they have raped everyone all the time is not quite... My point was not that we should rape. No, no, no you should practice it when it comes to who you care about the most. And not look at and understand that this is just genetic, it's the brain that's fooling you. It's my genes that are f**king up my brain to think that people who share more genes with me are more people than others. Is it one thing to take with you that it's a risk thing? But what you should do is to take with you. You take with you children and school classes in Auschwitz and so on. It's very important to see history like that. But it was taking with you, like the lady with Oda,

who from the same place as you, worked in a band of clowns in a refugee camp for a period. And got to experience a lot of things in a close-up. And that gives an impression of life. And to experience it, to see it, to meet the people, to see that they are just like us. That makes a big difference when it comes to this. And if you close yourself in, never meet anyone from other cultures, or with a different skin color, or anything else, just look at the people who are not exposed to it.

They would also be much more alienated. So that would be the best thing to show our children. Let them meet people who are struggling. We have a lot of research on this in Norway, that they are the most critical to refugees in areas where there are few refugees. If you build a place where there are relatively many people with different backgrounds, then it is much more positive. So this exposure is a lot, and I think without a doubt that I grew up in, partly in Africa,

I spent four years of my childhood in Tanzania and Kenya, where I drove past every day what is probably the world's largest slum area, I think, past Nairobi, and had classmates who were extremely poor, and I felt extremely privileged as a white person there. There is no doubt that this is the form of my perspective quite strongly. And I would actually wish that everyone had to live at least one year in a developing country, just to change their perspective on a part of things. I feel that I come from a very homogenous environment, from the North Sea, and have many friends who are like me. I have seen others who are more, I should say, more skeptical about other cultures and skin colors,

because they are so closed and homogenous. And that was how I grew up and how I had it in my life for many years. But in a way, and I've never been in Tanzania or in a war zone or a place with a lot of refugees, but in a way I've had an intellectual... Let's see, I understood more intellectually saw for myself that they like me. Do you understand? That's interesting. That's one of the things I'm very interested in, because it's... What is being stupid, or what is defining someone as smart, and I think one of the characteristics of a relatively outgoing person is the ability to externalize and put you in a different situation.

Because I think if you are a normal outgoing person, you can do that. It's a bit like a debate about trans people and stuff. I can never know what it is to struggle with my own gender identity, because that has never been an issue for me. But the worst I know is people who are like... It's a bit like when I see a woman on Facebook writing on MeToo, that her whole life she's been walking around town, and men are slapping her on the ass, and that doesn't do anything, so why should people care about that? But it's okay that you think it's okay, but the idea that because you think it's okay, then all other women should think it's okay, so should Ergo, so should everyone else, who thinks it's okay.

Regardless of their experiences in their childhood, things that can affect them that make it safe, a lot of bad things happen to them, that it's much more difficult for some than for others. It's so simple for people, when it's like, if I experience it like that, then the norm should fall. And to be able to get into it,

I don't know if it's a transpersonal disease, but I think I'm going up enough to understand that two things. One, that I can to a certain degree sit down and see how damn it must be. Because I remember that when I was in high school, when I had been at the hairdresser, there was a little girl who came to school the day after, just because people commented like, oh, you cut yourself. And I thought, I think we should come there as a different gender than what people used to know as fucking brave must not be, that's the most brave thing I can think of, but you can do as a human being. And that's something that Jogann should take in and feel, this requires a lot, and have respect for it.

That was something I had already forgotten. But that ability to get into the other person's situation, I think is a kind of definition of intelligence in a way. Yes, 100 percent. And there is a lot of resistance against both trans and refugee aid and everything. and all kinds of things, it's because you experience that you also become naive in these questions, or that it goes too far, that it almost becomes a kind of either-or thing. And that's just because you don't meet in the middle, and in a way you don't have a fundamental empathy or understanding either, but it's a very eternal fight between these difficult questions. And it's clear that it's about that many people want to see the world in black and white, and that is the easiest thing as well. But it is incredibly complicated. One thing I thought about, which has irritated me for a long time,

is how journalists and opinion-makers and experts paint images of world leaders, like Putin for example, who are almost like Captain Sabel to him, who are like, oh yes, they are going there, then we'll go there too. And it's so much more complicated than that. I remember saying that, without knowing anything about it, I just thought it was completely logical that Putin has seen for himself that when he goes into Ukraine, he has seen a self-worthiness in the western powers, which makes this a risk and a chance game,

but it will maybe lead to a collapse and polarization there, and that it is much bigger than what many experts have found effective. Maybe it's because the simple stories, the simple narratives sell, and the more complicated lines are't sell interest to people. That's demanding. I mentioned in the last podcast that I think Elon Musk is one of the biggest liars that exist in the off time. If you follow him on X and such, then he's just completely fucking good at spreading spread misinformation and idiotic takes and stuff. But when people think that Elon Musk is a dick, that's why Tesla is a bad car. I think Tesla is a very good car. I myself hate Elon Musk.

It becomes an incredibly banalization of the debate that he, he's all over the place, he's bad. I can definitely respect a lot of the bad things Elon Musk has done with SpaceX and Tesla. I understand his role in Tesla, he's always being overdone when he can't beat Tesla or something like that. But he has obviously done a lot of smart tricks

that can have a positive side to it. At the same time, he has done a lot of idiotic things, which is completely crazy. It goes back to that during the pandemic, the criticism he got when the CDC said that the Norwegian health system was down, I don't remember the whole history of it. When they went out very clearly with, like, yes, you have to wear a mask in those situations, because that is very important. And then later they went back a little on some things, and then they changed the rules in some way, and then is very important. And then they go back to some things, and change the message along the way,

and then people get pissed off by that. And again, it's a black and white thing. I understand your thought, but you may have to do that, because you have to in a way, if you are the health authorities, and you have to give advice to millions and millions of people, then you may not be able to give such a nuanced message. You just have to be very basic, and always have a mask ready. And it irritates me like hell, because of course a mask doesn't want to be 100% sure.

It's not a condom, but if it works, it will collect absolutely everything in the condom. But that's obviously not how a face mask. And the critics of the face mask wanted to say that it has zero significance, because the spit particles go through the mask. Obviously, not everything goes through the mask. It would work as a kind of plague, a bad plague, a men's plague. So that was the most irritating thing. What irritates me again, back to the idea that people want real messages, is that Jan-Ole Hesselberg, I know he talks a bit about that psychologist,

I don't know what it's called, it's a kind of logical thought, but the idea that we tend to round everything down to 100%, so if a vaccine is 87% effective, then you can just as well let it go. If it's not 100% effective, you can just as well deliver it to him. If it's not 100% effective, what's the point? Then they don't understand that you're still reducing the risk by an extremely large extent, even if it's not 100%. Or if it's a certain effect that affects relatively few percent, it's the same as nothing. If you like it either way, it should be 100 as nothing. But if it's the same, either or, it has to be 100% effective. Then I can accept that.

If it's not a point, everything in between is equally important, but it's so hard to take over. I would like to talk a little about this trend that you should boycott everything from the USA, which I have some thoughts about, and you probably have too. But first I just have to pee a little, so back in a couple of hundred parts. Well, we're back.

I say that I was offered an beer, and I can't take it because I drive, but I'm a little bit like that, and the fact that you can't take one beer, that I can't take one beer as a free driver, I will manage it perfectly. So it happens that I have taken a protest beer to show that I am a free person. But not more than one. And it's just bottles. I am completely against it. If I have tasted a drink, I don't take it. Because I am so afraid that it will look bad.

Yes, because it's more like that. I feel more rational, of course, I don't do that. But anyway, it's just some kind of hang up. We were talking about... Now it's both Facebook groups, and I see several people writing... I understand. I have evaluated different cars and went for a German, an Audi. And I am happy for that day. I think Germany is struggling a bit.

It is important to support the European economy. I agree a bit. But at the same time, what do you think of the boycott of everything that is American? First of all, you create a bigger barrier and a bigger conflict. We create a conflict and we throw the whole US under the bus because there is one president that we don't like. And the one who has been elected president now only a product of a wrong-making policy, which was earlier, by the so-called good presidents. I think that's an incredibly simple way to look at it. What do you think about it? I think it's difficult, because we're a victim of the fact that what we we know is what we see. And it's so easy to boycott a country. It can always be an artist to a tech leader or something.

Because, like Milan Musk, he's a lot of piss and wants to boycott Tesla. But then there are probably so many industrial leaders who are just as fucking. They just keep it close. Technically, it's not a reason to buy their product either, but you only know what you know. For me, it's not about boycotting American products, because I feel that's a bit too generalizing. But it's more about thinking about it yourself. Should you have deleted Facebook accounts, because Mark Zuckerberg is a dick, You are a geek and should have boycotted some of your products, that are more specific towards specific companies or people,

if you had boycotted, not necessarily save all of your power to be American, for example. Because still, most Americans are relatively reasonable. I read a story about someone who has been removed from the Facebook group, but you use the word meta in a platform way. I got an invitation to a Facebook group that was boycotting America. We've had something better for so long. Oh my god. You don't see the paradox here.

I'm struggling a bit. I'm struggling a lot with how we should demonize and throw ourselves on such trends like this overnight, without taking a step back and looking around a bit. Because Trump, for the first time, I think he is a mobile type, a real loser guy. But I also understand some mechanisms around why he has come to power now. And he has fascist tendencies and all that. I find that very scary. But it's not like the US has gone from being 100% knights in skin armor to becoming a monster overnight because of Trump. If we just go back in history and look at all that fucking war and how they actually have expanded, how NATO has actually provoked and crossed the line, there are many, in a way, that are over-confident in what they have done. Then it is in a way, not any...

Why can't you, in a way, why is there no one screaming and cheering when you buy Chinese cars and such? It is also a gruesome regime in many ways, in a much greater degree than the US. I don't understand why you should just choose American goods, but it's still not the opposite of American. No, you have to buy Chinese cars and stuff. I don't understand. People can't stop listening to American music and watch American movies. No. That's what I want to have. But that's the narrative. And it's natural that it's easy to buy the simple narrative, like if there's a discussion about Trump and the treatment of refugees from Mexico on the border,

or some kind of Muslim ban, or something like that. Yes, it's of course critical when you discriminate specific groups and so on and so forth. But to say the last time, I have much more restrictive immigration policy in Norway than the USA has ever had. But it's like, the main thing is that Trump is, and again I'm not trying to defend Trump, because what he does is ego, and that's just horrible, the way he treats and the strategy they've used on the border to Mexico. But just like, in the big picture when it comes to the refugee policy or immigration policy, the USA is much more liberal. And a lot of what Trump does is things Obama did and other presidents have done.

But when they did it, nobody talked about it. But Trump did it, and suddenly the evil himself. So it's categorically Obama was good. I'm not so critical of anything he did. But Trump is a bad guy, so everything he does is... I think there is much more happening in him now. It's incredibly difficult not to be an art guy if you put the word deep state in your mouth. But there is something, if you call it something else, the same as the deep state, and it doesn't have to be so deep and so illuminating about it, but a deeper state than those in power for 4 or 8 years.

There are some powers in the US and Norway that work with a longer time horizon than the government. In Norway, you have the form of tax, or the cramping of bureaucracy, which is very hot now. This debate is maybe more than ever. It will be in control of the debate towards the election. If you look at a state like Norway, which is a state that is rich in natural resources, and has an adult bureaucracy, the state just grows and grows, and then there is the business sector, which wants to control the state, and prioritize more tech and more such types of services. The question is, is the state interested in that and giving business life more power? Have you thought about that before? That it is a kind of underlying wish, if it is not something that is sitting with a cap and thinking about it,

but that it is a driving force to have a form of tax and the rig that is now. I'm the wrong person to ask you things, I'm not very much interested in that. I'm quite a bit concerned about myself, but it's not... If you really wanted more businesses in Norway, and more focus on tech and other businesses, you would have made some changes. It would have been easier to make some changes. But the fact is that the state of Norway is very rich in natural resources, but also oil funds and investments in equity and in the stock market around the world, then you actually have the Norwegian interest in it being the way it is now. Have the big state, have it. I think that's interesting,

because it's not as black and white as many people are supposed to have it. I live in that paradox, all in all, that I have, have my whole adult life, I work in my own company, I have a foundation, I work in the private business, but I have always paradox, because as I have said in many other contexts, when I vote for the election, I don't vote primarily for my own best interest, but I try to think what is best for most people. And I have, after all, run a company for 25 years, which means that I may not have had such terrible difficult conditions. I managed to keep alive in this company, which was quite good, and run companies in Norway. Not me, I'm sorry mind until the last seven years. But I think tech leaders like Elon Musk and others can think about how much the world is so concerned about our wealth system in the US. Is it only for self-election? But I think genuinely that they think that if they can just get free speech, everyone will get it better. I think they have a certain idea that the world will get better if we remove all the start and all the success we have.

We clearly know what to do right, if we can control it, it will get better for everyone. Even if everything shows that it doesn't happen. And it's probably right that if you could just break up the whole route and start over, it would work. But it doesn't work in Braxis. It's the idea of Project 2025, the idea of making small states where you basically have your own laws, where people can control as they want. I see the point there.

Back to the roots, is that it? I always have the romantic idea when you post the apocalyptic world where everything starts from scratch and doesn't try it tried this again. Free fall, so when the rules are gathered through hundreds of years of culture. If you go back to February, if you go in that direction, you'll get very fast off your own feet. You'll solve the whole situation. You'll get Texas to be your own... Believe me, there are many people in Texas who want to get rid of themselves.

And create shit in Hollywood and shit in everything. And Joe Rogan is the president of the state. It's just... I just think that if you let that play out, you end up in this one. For me, it's a reason. That it's mostly reason to have a relatively strong state, and that you pay taxes, and that you have the rules and norms. But I don't understand why they would want...

You said that you are so powerful and have so much power in your property to be a member. Why would they want to break that up and create less power in the property of being together. Why do they want to break it up again and create less power in the state? It doesn't sound like Trump wants to do that. Or is he just a puppet? Or what the hell, who is the one who has to serve on that? But it's what we do in Norway, we don't want to be part of the EU. We have an idea that I have been independent and I can decide and practice myself is an advantage. Yes. I think that mentality is quite strong in general.

Even though I left my youth without any in the EU and all that, and preserve the Norwegian... But now I'm 100% for the EU and think that the only thing I can do to get security and peace is to have the most possible cooperation. We agree. I think some of you are very picky. No, I'm not very picky, but my gut feeling is that if we don't get that... I mean, the pandemic and climate challenges and everything, you can't solve it at the national level. This is something that requires international cooperation. And also the pandemic, climate challenges and everything. You can't solve it at the national level. This is something that requires international cooperation. I think the EU has done a lot of good in regulating the amount of food or other things.

We have a very good communication with the EU and the rest of Europe without being part of the EU. And if we are part of the EU, we will still... We have voted no to the EU, but we will still get EU directives and we will still be allowed to have a third of the EU on us. So we can argue that we are not allowed to join. But we are the same as if we are outside or with. Because this is not what the people have voted for. This is when we get a third of the EU on our heads without having been part of the EU. I think we need a new people's vote, I think time is running out for that now. I think it sounds a bit scary that we are going to be ruled from another place in Europe.

And believe me, if Støre and Stoltenberg are super... I just think they are fighting for for EU, is that right? They work against the big world in Europe, both, and the world. I don't know, and again, I can at least talk about it. I don't know in detail how much they can advise on EU if we are in EU. Now we are listening here, because people are like, what the hell, why are you talking about it all day? Isn't it refreshing to have podcasts where people are like, no, not nice?

Totally agree, I like it. I have several times in this podcast, the history of this podcast, I've been involved in and plumped out and showed enormous ignorance. Yes, that's one thing I try to be good at, that I at the 2-3 topics I feel I know something about. Sex, what do you know about? Sex and vaccines and a few other things. What's happening with this cancer vaccine thing? With the RNA vaccine technology? It's extremely exciting and extremely rewarding that the best Canadian in the US will basically erase all that research

because of the idiotic idea that mRNA vaccine is dangerous. Then we have to get them to take this to... Europe has a lot of resources, we can manage, we can research without USA, right? I would think so, but I think a lot of that research is happening in the USA. I hope that it will be a kind of research flight to European countries. If the USA has chosen to erase it themselves, yes, yes, if they take the consequences, then we will also become the world leaders in this research. We will have to get Einstein here. Yes, it will be the opposite.

But it is exceptionally exciting. I think people forget that we already have two vaccine for cancer. And it is the HPV vaccine, which is exceptionally effective and safe, and more or less looks like it eliminates cancer in the way you have been vaccinated for a long time. So it's a fantastic thing that we don't talk about it anymore. The other thing is the hepatitis C vaccine, which prevents liver cancer. We don't get it all, it's more specific in the risk group and something, I don't know who gets it. But it's already there.

The so-called child's vaccine, they are not much of an obstacle, because they have been... I know that there is some obstacle, but they have been relatively calm. Because they have worked and have done so much. In Norway, luckily, we have... It was a bit critical around the country, where there were some municipalities that had a bit too low coverage of the measles vaccine or the MMR vaccine. Then they took it up a bit, after that they got some media coverage, and the news was pretty low, but now they have taken exams and they have come up quite a bit again. But that is a problem in the US. The US declared the vaccination measures for the year 2000 in the US. There was no vaccination measures for several years. And then came Andrew Wakefield, who created uncertainty around the MMR vaccine, because his research on Juxe claimed that it could be linked to autism.

And then the vaccine be linked to autism. Yes, that's true. And then the vaccine coverage started to sink, and now it's really struggling in the US again with the spread of measles and everything. Because the measles vaccine is also the MMRNA technology? No, no. It's a classic vaccine. We're not going to go into the technical part, but this cancer thing, sorry, I've interrupted you thing has been interrupted by some un-interesting questions.

I don't read much about it, I just know that there are a couple of... I don't know anything about those podcasts, but I forgot the details. But the simple cancer types, they look like they have some legal... legal attempts in relation to mRNA vaccines that can protect against certain types of cancer. Is it the same landscape as CRISPR technology, that you go straight into a genome? No, absolutely not. It's important to distinguish, but that's one argument people use against mRNA vaccines. They think they can change your DNA, but they can't. Can you explain briefly what it is? An mRNA vaccine. mRNA stands for messenger RNA.

This could be much better during the pandemic, because then I would write a blog post about it and forget about it. But it's actually just a molecule that contains information that goes into your cell. In the cell, yes. And then it instructs the cell to produce proteins that are identical to proteins found on a virus. So that when your immune system sees you in the protein, it thinks, oh, here's a virus, I think I'm attacking it. So you train your immune system, so when you actually get the virus in,

immune defense has already been trained to recognize it in the protein, otherwise it is clear that it is attacking. So you have a body, an immune defense, which is armed to the teeth? Yes, that's what all vaccines do, but what the classic vaccines contain, for example, the old Kikost vaccines contained whole Kikost bacteria. But in an inactivated form, they can be killed or crushed. Either virus or bacteria, so it's a virus. An influenza vaccine can contain the influenza virus, but it has been killed.

So it can't do anything to your body, but your body still recognizes that, oh, here's some foreign drug, and then it starts producing antivirus against it. So if you actually get the virus in your body two months later, then your body is already ready to fight it before you get sick. The other time it's just proteins, specific components on the surface of a virus that you spread. But the difference with mRNA vaccines is that you don't spread the fragments inside you.

You get the body cells or muscle cells in humans to produce the fragments. In the Covid-vaccine, in the Pfizer vaccine, which used mRNA technology, your own cells produce parts of the spike protein, the pig on the Covid-virus. They don't produce the whole Covid-virus, but just the little pig. And it's enough that immune protection knows it again. So it's a continuation of the usual vaccination?

Exactly. I agree. You send in the birthmark, divide, proteins... The function or the purpose is the same, that you are in the risk of being recognized, and then prepare for war. Fantastic how... How great it is that we've managed to understand this. But it's important to understand that DNA is in the cell core. And the mRNA vaccines, there's nothing that goes into the cell core and mixes with the DNA in the body. Both because they don't do it, it doesn't go into the cell core,

but they would have done it with a lot of correction mechanisms in the body that would have identified it. And if not, we wouldn't have lived if anything could affect your DNA. There are a lot of wrong correction mechanisms in the body that make sure that doesn't happen. That's completely... But who are the... Which forces are the ones that want us to to have these vaccines? It's... who's in charge of that? It always depends on who's in charge. So we say that Kennedy is either bought and paid, or brainwashed by a lobby.

The pharmaceutical industry? Because they have some courage. There are so many... of a lobby. The pharmaceutical industry, because it has something against it. There are so many... I think there are two mechanisms that play into this. One is that we know that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has earned enormous sums, among other things,

for the leaders of the World Health Organization, regardless of Children's... What's it called? Children's Health Defense, Children's Defense, some kind of organization, which is an anti-vaccine organization, which is very closely linked to and gets a lot of money from. So he has direct economic interests

in spreading the message that vaccines are problematic. Yes, yes. But then in addition to what is a little more above when we think about getting money, it's just the idea that it is more about a worldview. Because he is not only against vaccines, he also believes that basically all diseases come from eating too bad food, which contains chemicals and chemicals and so on. And that is a very wrong strategy, because food never has a higher risk than it is.

And that is not the big problem here problem with strict regulations on how food exists. There will always be a core truth in it, that's why it wins. It's not entirely wrong that you... I have to say that I have a tendency to be very consistent in the basics. When we know that the big, say,, the hell, the nest and so on, they have for years spread propaganda to sell their hellish products. It's not poison necessarily, but it's really bad food. And you see a huge epidemic in the US, so there is some truth there. But all consumerist groups start to reveal some kind of truth.

It's a core truth. Of course, capitalism is that you shouldn't rely on the big food producers. At the same time, we have pretty simple rules, as most people should know, about how the Norwegian food service, if you manage to follow a certain pattern, you can't be fucked up by the food you eat. Then you make the right choices. And there are very strict regulations, and food can always be dependent on some additives that can be problematic, because there is a study that showed that in extreme doses,

it could be. It is very much based on the the before and after principle in Norway. I think it's almost too strict, but... Here I am partly a little bit against it. I mean that the way we look at food... We are on a wild track, and I think it's as simple as that. I don't think... The processing degree of the food we eat,

and it's not just junk food, but I'm talking about all the Pepsi Max people ok and useful is not conducive to us. Do you think so? Don't you think people are aware that you shouldn't eat burgers every day and shouldn't eat good food? I'm not just talking about burglary, I'm talking about, for example, the knucklehead mark of the grandiose, which is the dumbest thing stupid as this in my life. People are not experts on this, so it's hard to believe that the grandiose which has a kind of spelt bottom, that it's ok to eat. But it's not in any way optimal. You would prefer to have pure raw materials. We have whole raw materials processed to the minimum. And this is not only about the fat,

but also how the whole body functions. How the food, the destruction, starts already in the mouth. Then signals are sent out about what you get in you and how your body should be. How you chew food has a lot to say about the destruction, but also the way the jaw cuts the muscles and affects... I think it can affect... If you only eat wheat or wheat, then all logic says that it is not optimal, at least.

Logic is not always the best way to go, you have to look at the empery, and that debate about ultra-processed food is absolutely absurd in my opinion, because it is a totally meaningless term, Most business experts agree that talking about ultra processed food makes no sense. Because when you go in, and there's a new study that confirms this 18 times, I blog about it several times, when you go in and look at the research, there are basically two things that look like they have negative health effects. They are animal products and they and sugar-based drinks.

Things that dessert sugar-based desserts like cakes and such have actually no negative effect when you look at the big studies, which are quite surprising even if it is ultra-processed to contain a lot of sugar. Of course, if you eat too much sugar, it is negative because it leads to over 10 fetuses. Again, I'm sure it's because of the sugar, fascinating enough, I wrote a blog post about it a long time ago, which actually surprised me myself. I got help from a nutritionist, or he is not a nutritionist, he is...

he is a master in social nutrition or something like that. But he has given me a lot of research, so I read again about it. And it's fascinating, when you look at the research, there is actually no connection between sugar and diabetes. With one thing, and that is sugar they drink. It's the only place they find it. Of course, it will go up in weight if you get too many calories. Apple juice and everything. Yes, juice, and everything. But the idea that processing is central, is not really found in research.

I think it's very interesting to hear, because I'm not an expert on it, but I've read a lot about it and I feel that it sounds right, it sounds reasonable that if you eat processed food and drop all the vegetables, the whole meat. It's not like you have to chew on a whole kohlrabi piece, of course. But that you know what you're eating, that you've processed it yourself, so that it hasn't gone through a huge heat treatment and that process. If everything you eat is processed in that way, if everything you eat is processed in that way,

then those who produce the food will benefit more, because it's better for their bottom line. The shops, for example, don't really benefit from clean raw materials. They want to process it themselves, and then you want to add a lot of water and some substances that make it coagulate, so you don't know if there is more food in it. Those things are just the basics. We are skeptical about it, because it sounds so wrong. But there are some kind of romanticizations. There has been research on it, for example, that if you make food from the bottom of, based on, I think it was a British study, which looked at one of the most famous British cookbooks. And then they took the top ten and the descriptions of it or something like that and then they made

it for the bottom of it. So it was like whole raw material made for the bottom of the kitchen at home, you have full control of it. And then, in comparison, the nutritional content contains salt, fat, something like that, with something like fjordland, dinner. And then you found out that the finished dinner actually turned out better. You get less salt, you get less fat when you eat it. like fjordland, dinner. And we found out that the finished dinner actually turned out better. You get less salt, you get less fat when you eat it.

So the idea that things can get healthy if you make them from the bottom of the house, if you actually remove what you do, but it's almost nobody who does it. So it's often with a more unhealthy meal until seven and a half. The demonization of finished food is problematic. And the other thing is that it is a very privileged situation, because it is like almost everything else in the world. If you really dig into the core, it is about economic inequality. We have to realize that for many people it is a great privilege to be able to buy finished raw materials

and spend an hour in the kitchen to make dinner for their family every day. That does't happen. Not many people have time for that because it's a busy and stressful day and a bad economy. So we actually have so much food that's not always optimal. But that's not the reason why people die. And we have the Nordic food advice. Instead of hanging up on ultra processed food, when it just follows the general advice,

not to give too much salt, not to give too much added sugar, not too much fat, eat more plant-based, a lot of vegetables, fruits, berries, nuts. This is something he knows, and it hasn't changed since the 50s. But people don't care. When people start criticizing ultra processed food, it's like... But we know what to eat. We have good data on that. But people don't want to relate to that advice.

They would rather hang themselves up in a term like ultra processed. Because that gives them a sense of mastery. Because then they can choose raw materials based on that. Which is completely wrong. Because we know that a lot of ultra processed food is central and is even directly in the sun. But if you buy a coarse cornbread, it is per definition very processed. But it is still to be expected of a lot of other types of food that is less processed, but which are less coarse corn products, for example, or coarse corn.

For me it is a very wrong angle, which I've been hyped up by social media, and the catchy trendy stuff, but it doesn't really bear any meaning in itself. I was interested in diving more into that side of you, really, but I'm more sceptical about it, or maybe what I feel is the main problem with processed food and the whole food industry is how much carbohydrates. And I'm not talking about carbohydrates from vegetables and fruits and such, because I'm talking more about all... If you think that average people get through these cost-saving measures, it's like 70% carbohydrates.

And you have to agree that we humans don't need carbohydrates, we need fats and proteins and various nutrients. So I don't quite understand. But I think at the same time, if we had removed carbohydrates from our diet overnight, the economy would have collapsed as well. Because since the earth's use revolution, we have learned to eat a lot of carbohydrates, because it is easy and cheap to produce, and it feeds a large population. But I don't think we need it. We need it, of course, to get... If you have a huge need for energy, it's very, very convenient with carbohydrates. But for a average person in Norway, or in the USA for example, who is a sick person,

we don't need it. That's why I don't understand it completely. That's why I think it's a bit misinterpreted. I mean, the business advice is clear that you should seriously limit the amount of added sugar. If something contains carbohydrates, like eating an apple, then there is a lot of carbohydrates in it. But it's still just as positive for you to eat more fruit and berries, even if there is a lot of carbohydrates in it. But the added sugar, which is only added to the taste itself, which is not there naturally, is what you should avoid. So it's difficult to demonize carbohydrates in itself, because it exists in all forms. But it's the added sugar that is problematic, and there is the diet advice very clear that you should avoid it.

If people have avoided the added sugar, then they are actually maxing meet the health limit they can get. Yes, sugar in itself is not so worrisome. I think that is a very correct direction when it comes to the restriction of sugar, which is not natural in much less degree. I have tried to get away from various sweetener, and rather find the sweet fruit back, which is a natural fruit. I notice that you get manipulated because you are used to sweet things, that an apple doesn't taste sweet anymore, right? And that is a mistake, it has been a wrong direction to go. But I think about it, if you... For example, I tried yesterday to make some food that also works for my son. I cook up a lot of vegetables and berries, such as beans and lentils,

and add strength, good power, and then mix with it. And then I mix this so it processes itself. It processes, yes. And it warms up, so it processes itself. When you cut it up in a pot, it processes itself. Yes, that's it. And the reason I have made a kind of brown soup is because my son doesn't like these lumps. But it is then... Yesterday I also fried up some meat that I have in the butter. And then it's vegetables, legumes, meat and power, basically.

And yesterday I had finished making it, I didn't have to add a shit. It tastes really good. You get all the components in the dish to have salt in them. So it has limited how much salt you need to add. You don't need anything. Or the saltiness, because the mustard gets a lot of the golden roots and onions that have been fried for a while. It gets so much mustard from there.

So, I mean, it's not necessarily a powerful way to cook food, because if everyone had dropped all these pasta screws and these wheat products, we would have had an even bigger food problem food in the world than we have today. So that is the reason why there is so much focus on carbohydrates. That you are uncritical in your daily carbohydrates. Rice, potatoes and corn are the best protein in the world. Absolutely.

And it is basically carbohydrate. And it's a good thing too. So it's not like if everyone just had dropped rice, potatoes and pasta and those things, it wouldn't have worked. But it's not the right thing. I dated a Pakistani lady many years ago. When she made dinner, she never had anything salty or anything like that. She was concerned that you would taste it naturally. And that was very unusual for me, because my friends say that I salt the food too much. I need people to taste salt, which I know is unhealthy and I should buy it.

But it becomes... If I wait for it, it's hard to swallow it again. It's a drug. If you just drink a lot of water in addition, it goes well. But I live... My dear wife, Tone, she is vegan. And that has of course affected me to a certain extent. And a little of the food I make. When we cook dinner, we never cook together. She makes her own stuff, I make my stuff.

Because it's her specific wishes, and mine. But what I mostly do is that I is buy big consumers of frozen vegetables. The and if you eat it once, you keep all the vitamins. I just try to be very strong, and they have a bad consistency on you. Yes, but what I buy, which is my life almost, is the mixture of the cowpeas, I don't know who produces it, but it's potato on it, with some long beans, and golden red beans and such, so it's mostly potato.

I put it in a frying pan, fry it, and then I throw it in something to give it more consistency. It can be either a vegan chicken nugget, which is a vegan version. Or I make my own... I'm not getting water in my mouth. Oh, it's so good. My buns. What I've lived on in my life is to take some small pots,

put them in a box with tomato buns, a box with chili buns, a box with corn, put in a lot chili sauce, a box with corn, add a lot of spices, stir and heat it up, and empty it on the vegetables. And it's so good! It's the most terrible thing I've ever heard! You're the one who said you were going to make a brown yolk. I don't eat with my eyes when I make this. I can add that in India, you have the colour...

Like with butter chicken, you have colouring powders. You have powder that is a clean colouring powder. To get it red or the colour you want. So India is the mecca of the stew. If you see the butter there, without the colouring food coloring, it's not a big deal. But I made a bun, it was my youth school meal. It was a box of tomato buns. And then I had ketchup on top of that. And then I added some oregano and ate it straight from the brain. Ketchup saves everything. We have to sit here for a long time. Now I have to pee again, as I usually do on tea. You are very nice to talk to. You should have chosen to drop your food habits, because you lost respect in your eyes.

You heard how damn much food you make. But okay. You lost weight, basically. I make the best vegan burger in the world. It's actually vegetarian because I have cheese. But Jesus Christ, I don't agree with one of the burger shops makes a better vegetarian burger than I do. I should start my own shop here in Oslo. One thing I could have done better, and I support, is to minimize the amount of meat you eat.

And that you are more selective on what kind of meat you put in. I try to get better, I'm not perfect here. I wish it was even better, but my goal is not to become vegan, but to eat meat. In everyday life I eat lean meat, and I don't go out more if I'm on a trip, or if I'm in Oslo and go out to eat. But generally, try to eat. You almost fill up all your diet if you focus on eating fruit? I feel very fresh. I don't always need meat. If I don't eat so much potato, rice and pasta, and rather just boil some wood, salt and maybe some mayonnaise, and eat right down the throat, and maybe a golden apple and a red apple.

I feel better about that. So the experts continue to argue about if you need all this pasta. I don't believe in that. But the world is going to... If people are interested in the ultra-processed food, I would like to put a link in my blog on chomli.com. I wrote a pretty extensive article about this last year. I will look it up.

Use the search field, search for ultra-processprocessed, and I probably found that blog post. I think I've summarized it in a way, it's more research that is relevant today. Thanks for the talk again, I've always enjoyed it. Very nice. I remember that I invited myself this time. I can't say, but you hinted last time that you had to do it again. Absolutely, that was very good. It would have matter anyway, and I'm very happy about that. And it won't be the last one either. Thank you for listening, and we'll talk. Bye bye! Bye! The modern

media. Hardly a person for a talk or a little bit. The are the secret. I have a lot of my snack on war. Enkelda are also in the factura me. Ficke. So we are here for because we like simple. Fiken, super simple business.

Try for free on Fiken.no.