Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade - Alan Zweibel

Episode Date: September 6, 2023

A love of writing, the original cast, and a crippling movie review with Alan Zweibel. *Note: this interview was recorded before the SAG-AFTRA strike took effect. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Let me just say something about Alan's White Bell. He is like a famous writer from Sarah Knight Live and he was a huge part of the first cast and the first cast is always going to be the first cast. There always be the greatest, right? And what happened and he really breaks it down. Another thing I like to say, stay in your lane, break it down. He breaks down that when they got on the show, it was kind of innocent. No one knew, they weren't rock stars. That's why they called them not ready for primetime players. And then at a given point,

I think it was John Beluce, he did Animal House and became a movie star. And so the entire culture of the show changes because of this, which is a fascinating thing. It goes in detail about that. He could picture, he'd come back to the set and there in those little tiny, he's on, as now he's like so much bigger than everyone.

And now he's back to doing sketches and there had to be attitudes in this and, you know, some people are on drugs, some people aren't. But I think that once that hit, he said it changed the dynamic. Yeah. And it's also Alan worked very closely with Gilla Radner and that's fun to hear because she's somewhat American sweetheart. Well, yeah, maybe the most likable, I don't know, she's just brilliant,

and he really talks fondly about her in great detail. He also, he did a movie that he wrote, which was such a hyped movie with a hyped cast called North, and it fucking bombed. And was John Love It's in it? It's so brutal because you can the interesting thing about showbiz out here is that no one knows jack shit you can't there's almost no for sure hits and so smartest people directors

writers cast and you just can't say this movie will be great and people to say pass and it's unbelievable i can't believe that i'm cracked the code i actually started a movie right after 1995. Nobody knows Jack Shit and that even bombed. That movie didn't do well. Nobody knows Jack Shit and it even bombed. No, you play Jack Shit? Show business, yeah, I was Jack Shit.

I look kind of like Joe Dirt. I was kind of like, Jack Shit and Joe Dirt should have. Amen. And Jack Shit, are you clues? Yeah, I don't know even Jack shit. I don't know myself. That was the cold open in the movie.

It was on a mountain retreat. There were cowboys. Anyway, it doesn't matter. It's on live streaming. I think it's on Pluto. Maybe Pluto is that a planet channel? It doesn't even know it's a network. That's how obscure.

It doesn't even qualify to be streaming. It's like the real Pluto, which is called a dwarf planet because it's so tiny Pluto doesn't count as even a streaming site because only 3200 people watch it 3200 doesn't the latest all-believe all right most of them in checkers of all yeah I digress more than that later here's Alan's why belt is why bell. It's like the moon landing usually, but no, I've been blessed, Dana. I've been really blessed. Fresh.

Yeah, not too much sun, light on the booze. Healthy time. Yeah, and you know, I get my basic six hours of sleep a week. So it's working out nicely. So you're not sleeping as well. That's a, yeah, that's, that's pretty common. Don't you say anybody? Uh, well, I take a little bit of a sleep aid.

Oh, I see in the form of a pill. Yeah. David teeny bits bits of it. It's David's pain, everybody. By the way, Al Franken asked me to ask you a question. Okay. He asked me this white bell question. He said, are you, are you Jewish? Well, that's old. That's from Al Franken. That's not a yes or no. That's not a yes or no answer. I know my answer. I know.

I know. Ask him. Ask him. Maybe, you know, I have you. What do you think this is Nordic? No, no, no, no, no. Nordic.

Oh, yeah. Well, look, we are in your square. It says David Spader. Yeah, I don't know what happened. Okay. But you can figure it out. His nickname is Spudley.

That's my codename. Your nickname is Spudley. Your nickname is Swibes. Okay. I don't have a nickname. Oh, my buddy, you ended this thing and you're gonna have a nickname. Okay.

My wife would like that. So you've been married a long time, right? Or no? Oh God, for, um, oh God. Oh God. Oh God help us. God help us all. It's 40, 42 years.

For those of you who bet the under, I'm sorry. It's funny. Hey man, I'm looking right at 40. I think. Really? Married in 83, 2023. Yeah, yeah, you're under c right at 40. I think really married in 83 2023

Yeah, yeah, you're on the cusp of 40. Yeah. Yeah Mm-hmm. How's it? How's it working out? I've been married 40 years to six different women, you know, I mean, it's oh yeah, no, well You know, it's cumulative how this stuff works, you know, you don't get any points for just one. You know what I mean? It's just how long you've been. But, Ellen, I don't write jokes, but this joke always kills. I have two jokes about my wife and that's it

because I can't write a joke and you're brilliant at it. I met my wife when she was 19. I raised her as one of my own. It's a nice little laugh. I've been married 38 years Pause to seven different women And those are but they they kill so much it makes me mad because I I don't even like Here's my day and I say my longest relationship is three table dances in a row

That was my old one But I'm not like that anymore, Danny. You know that. So Alan, you have so much, I've been reading your book. No, no, this is, we should have allowed a lot more time. This one hour thing, you know, I don't know how that's going to work. Believe me, it's a seven hour career. We're trying to cram it into one hour. We could get several people off. I mean, it was, it was grim. 205, finally, Jim Downey said, okay. There you go.

No, we love Jim. He came on and said nice things about you. Don't you love him, people say that to you? Hey, I ran into someone, Ellen. They said nice things about you. Yeah, like, like it's an unusual thing that, wow, somebody actually doesn't think you're an asshole. Oh, there you go.

You seem very popular so far. For what I've read and heard and seen, you seem very popular. Are you a bad guy pretending to be a nice guy or a nice guy? A good one, yeah. Well, people say I'm nice, but they go, I'm kind of a dick inside and maybe Dennis Miller

is sort of opposite or whatever. He's really nice. He's a dick with a nice guy. Well, he plays that character, but he's incredibly sentimental and loyal to his friends. So what about you, Alan? I'm also a part-time therapist. I'm full disclosure.

I think that I'm generally nice. I mean, I've got three kids, five grandchildren, so they automatically make you nice. As far as doing what we do is concerned, something, I remember all the people who were nice to me when I started, and I also remember all the dicks, and I'm going, well, I don't want to be remembered that.

Right. You know? And also, you know remember all the dicks and I'm going well, I don't want to be remembered that, you know, right and also, you know All the collaboration that I've done You know whether it would be shandling or gild or Billy Crystal or I learned to take my ego and Put it over here and make it just work for the work and so that avoids, if I believe in something that I'm writing and the other person doesn't, then we have a different kind of talk, but it's about the work, you know.

You know, you said your kids like you, let's look at a clip. Oh, they say they don't like, we have a clip. I'm getting it. I just tried to get in there. See if this relates to you guys. Dave's got a million up. He's got.

I was sitting on that for about 45 seconds, guys. Just. You ever, even as a non-confrontational, confrontational nice guy, there's ways to get what you want. So if you hear someone's idea, you don't really agree with, even if they're one of the greats. Do you rope a dope a little bit like you don't push back at that moment? Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

And then you fight for it later. There's a dance in it. Okay. One of them I learned from Shandling, you know, you can pitch a joke to him about a cow, all right? And then Gary would go, well, off of what you're saying, I think that Amish people, and you go, we have a second, how did the cow get that Amish people? He includes you as if he would never have had that thought.

How do you not heard about the cow? Oh, that's crap. So he's very proprietary. He makes sure that he was in there. He was in there, but it was inclusive. And nobody would be telling stories like this in a year after he passed. I, the writer dynamic Dana of,

when I started SNL, Alan, I was a comedian. Dana came on as a full cast member, but obviously he's a funny writer and thinker, but he wasn't paid, you know, as a writer. He could write, like as you know, but for the people at home, like I was a writer performer, so I was sort of, when you're a feature player,

the word was, you write for everyone else, you don't really need to be on, you know, like start writing and that's a hard thing, a to write for the people. I think that's where you're good, and it's hard to not want to be on, and I think you've had a career where you were okay just being a good writer. And that's you've had a career where you were okay just being a good writer.

That's a hard thing to pitch. Oh, I've been lucky, David, in that, you know, Letterman would put me on as a guest. And I go on talk shows. I have speaking engagement. So that part of me that has that need or that desire to have an audience respond to me is pretty much satisfied. That being said, I just love the craft of writing too much. To me, it's, I wake up 5'30 every morning, I move my words around and try to make sense of it. And so, I have the best of both worlds that way. Yeah, you know, I mean, Dan, I was just gonna say that when there's so much pride, even

when I was there when I'd get a sketch on that I started to feel so much pride in the word writer that when they were saying at other shows and comedies, you could be a producer or something, I go, and they stopped kind of using the word writer. I go, no, no, writer is like the coolest thing to be proud of. Like you were saying, like, if you're good writer, you feel so much, you get so much out of it to be called a writer. Well, you're absolutely right. And there is an older school.

I don't know if it exists. I don't think it exists now, but there was an older school where they was regarded by executives and even producers where you started off as a writer and you graduated to a producer or something like that. Whereas, I'm going, no, no, I write, that's what I do. You understand me more than write, don't call me something else. Yeah, yeah. What's that? Well, I would just interject this. After reading a lot of stuff about you in the last couple of days, it's really valuable for a performer on Saturday Night Live

to find a writer who gets them and will incorporate their rhythms. I had that with Spiral, you had it with Gildi, I guess, where you would listen to her and then you would add stuff on. So it came together, the writing and the performing were kind of created simultaneously as opposed to handing gilders something. Is that how it worked or? Absolutely. You know, before I got to SNL, I was writing jokes for stand-up comedians and the

cat skills and then Rodney Dangerfield or Morty Gunty was his name. Morty Gunty was the first guy to have a role. And I remember that guy in TV. Yeah, in the 60s. When we were growing up, they was Morty Gunty. He had a show called The Funny Company and for you, Trivia Buffs out there, the Dick Van Dyke show had two pilots and the first one that got rejected, call Ryan a played what eventually was Dick Van Dyke's role, Morty Gunnty originally played what became Mori Amstam's role in that show. But when I learned how to write jokes, that's why Lauren hired me. And when I got to SNL, I had never seen, I don't think I even heard of Second City at that point. Certainly not the ground links or the proposition where Jane Curtin came from.

And when I saw them assuming characters, when you get somebody like Dan Ackroyd, all of a sudden creates this whole world in front of you, I was running for guys with Tuxedos and bad teeth. You know? And you were running like guys with Tuxedos and bad teeth. You know, and you went from the cast. You were writing jokes with her people and then now it's sketches, which is very different. Absolutely. The only time, you know, as you know that joke jokes were maybe appropriate, it was weakened

update. Yeah. Okay. Right. But when I was writing for those guys, you know, Rodney Dangerfield, you know, he had that thing, I don't get no respect, even as an infant,

my mother wouldn't breastfeed me. She said she liked me as a friend, okay? So that was, so I captured his rhythms and whatever. But, and the joke that got me the job, I just, and Ellen, Lauren is the first to admit it, or to verify it, I should say, is I had written a joke saying that the post office was about to issue a stamp, commemorating prostitution in the United States, 10 cents stamp, you want to lick it, it's

a quarter, okay? So, I learned how to write jokes, but when I got to SNL, aside from weekend update where I collaborated with Herb Sargent, was he there with you guys? Oh, yeah. He was there the entire time running update when I was there. Yeah. God, you know, he was the old guy in that big office with the nap on the way. Yeah, the big nap on the way.

He was shocked. He was here, the glasses that he wore up here for some reason, one of his eyes were down here. And so the jokes I wrote with him, but character writing like Fagilda or the Samurai's for John Belushi was something I had to feel my way around. And with Gilda, it was, we found each other as people. She was a little spooked out by the big city, coming to New York and living here.

This is where I'm from, and we found each other. You're absolutely right. Not only did we have this synergy where we made each other laugh, but it was like, she wanted somebody to write for her, and I wanted somebody to speak through. Okay, so it became very convenient kind of marriage that way. You when you you started I don't know this day, but I think Alan you started originally with the original. So you met Gilda when everyone did everyone was

like sort of merging together. You were there day one. I was there you won. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we the first meeting we had in Lauren's office July 7th 1975. I just remember that. Okay. And I walk into Lauren's office for our first meeting. Nobody's there except for Michael O'Donney, who was, I don't know if you've met him, but he founded the National Impune. He was the darkest humor guy ever. And he was by himself in Lawrence, office. And how did I find him? I found him.

He took Big Bird, a stuffed yellow Big Bird, and he was wrapping the Venetian blind cord around Big Bird's neck, and then he pulled it. So Big Bird was hanging, and he did that, that he looked at me, goes, do you like the Muppets? That's how he felt about the Muppets being on the show originally. And I was, and I liked the Muppets, but I was just scared to admit it. I got, I hate those fucking things. So I would have said the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. So he murdered a man in Vegas, right? Was that the rumor? No, I'm kidding. Made it up. It's always like killed a man in Reno is always that go to thing. I was kind of interested in that joke for just a second, the post-Samp joke, because I realized that the language, the syllables of a writer of jokes, like it had to be,

what was the punchline the way you teased it out? If you want to lick it, it's a quarter. Yeah, it's 25 cents. 25 cents. Quarter is better rhythm, yeah. But I have this book that I that recently came out called Laugh Lines, my life helping funny people be funny. That's the one I wrote. I devote a bunch of pages to how I wrote that joke. It was it was 1975 when I got the job on SNL, but the next year was going to be the bicentennial. So they were going to have commemorative stamps about things in history. And so, okay, what's a funny thing that you can have a stamp about? Oh, maybe prostitution. I can't even begin to tell you how many different punchlines I had.

You know, if you look at it, it goes, ah, I had one where you took the stamp out to dinner first. It was ridiculous. And then it was, if you want to look out to dinner first. It was ridiculous. And then it was, if you want to lick it, it's a lot more. And then it ended up on quarter, but you're right. Not 25 cents, but that one took a long time to try. Quarters got a K in it. I mean, not really when you write it out sometimes. Yeah, but it's got that cut.

Yeah, absolutely. It's going to be a quarter. Yeah. Anyway, got that. Yeah. Yeah, that's just funny. It's going to be a quarter. Yeah. Anyway, so that's process. So Guilda, uh, as a person, I mean, I, I was someone in college when you guys all came on and it never done stand up when you started. So you were superstars. The whole show was ridiculous. It was, uh, just must see television for everyone in the dorm, you know, and Guilda ran or always bounced off the screen. I know it's been talked about so much.

Her level of likability and vulnerability. I don't know if I've ever seen a more likable person on screen. It's spade also was by next person. Yeah, no, I would say it's a dead. It's a dead. It's a real toss up. Yeah. And being guilty was cute too. Everything about it was cute.

She had that intangible quality that you felt you know, you knew her, even if you never met her. And Lauren, it may have been the first year of the show. What he would do is he would put Gilda onstage just sitting there and she would talk about what she ate that week. And then she would do the same thing, he would do the same thing with Belushi,

where he let the people know who they were for two minutes as people. So when she would do Rosanna, Rosanna, Dana, you felt you knew that person who was now wearing a funny wig and doing that dial. Oh, it's a different person because sometimes as a kid, I'm too stupid. And you don't even know really their characters. The first time you see someone, you go, that's who she is. Yes. You know what I mean? And that's kind of smart to differentiate it and say, hey

audience, you don't know her yet, but here's who she is normally. That's absolutely right. So it's like, you know, if a friend of yours is doing something funny, it feels doubly good because you know who that person is, you know. That's what's happening in the podcast world. People do a podcast, people get to know them and then they tour the podcast. And the same laugh they're doing gets double the lap because the audience is their friend and they know them. It's very interesting. Absolutely. Yeah, I know there's a familiarity as opposed to

a reintroduction or having to define yourself. It's a head start. It's really good. If Sinatra was around today, he'd come out, he'd take off his hair piece, he would go, hey, ladies and gentlemen, the sum of wind, I don't know if it was Sinatra, but I will do Sinatra before this podcast is over, I vow. Yeah, Alan was, was, was, Guild, she seems a little fragile to me too. Was she or she very tough? Oh, is it, well, that's a great question. There was a fragility there. Look, she had vices. She was publicly known that she was a bulimic. And she had trouble with guys.

Never probably got over the fact that her dad died when she was 15. When she was 15. And she was this fat kid and all of that stuff. So, but the. I think that her greatest, I don't know if it was talent, but what she did, what she didn't hide that vulnerability, okay, she didn't try to be something she wasn't.

And once again, that made her somewhat embraceable, you know. But she was strong enough to get through it, you know. And we did the show when I'm sure it's the same for you guys It ultimately became a battleground, you know within the office. Oh, it's tough. Yeah. Yeah It's you gotta be strong and no, I don't think anyone's ready for it You think we're all in this team. We're all gonna have this great fun time and then there are great great fun highs And then there's some tough times when you're in nothing or you walk through the halls of people ignoring you because you had a bad read through or something.

You just say, oh, this is so weird. We're there. It's so weird to say, oh, go ahead, Dana. No, I'm just curious about what you just said. And the alliances that get made, and it is a game of thrones or something, there's a whole subterfuge. You put all these comedians and clowns

and writers in a room. And you say, if this guy gets on, I's a whole sub-diffuse. You put all these comedians and clowns and writers in a room and you say, if this guy gets on, I'm a clown, Phil Hartmuss ago, I'm a clown. I'm a clown, yeah, that's hilarious. This guy, my friend sketch gets on, then mine won't get on and all that psychology that went on, at least when I was there, we were all very friendly with each other,

but it was weird, that put it down. Stunning, turning. Yeah, you know, something, I can, this is my own personal sort of observation when that started. Okay. I could be wrong and other people could dispute it, but look, when we first started, the only rule that we had. Lauren said, let's just make each other laugh. And if we do, we'll put it on television. Good idea. Okay. So we had this show, hey, we're going to do a show.

And it was sort of egalitarian. And it was the show was the thing. But when when Balushi came back, you have to doing animal house. It's my theory that the culture changed because now John was on the cover of I think it was Newsweek by himself with the Toga, you know, and none of the other cast were on either side of him. So now it was almost subliminal, but wait a second, this show can get us that, okay? And it was not declared, but I do believe that that was a turning point. It was aligned, a demarcation there, where for us, the show was the end. Now it became an end, a means to an end. Right. Yeah. Interesting.

Cause Chevy laughed early, right? And then and then Chevy would blew up and blue.oe was fucking huge. Like one at a time, it started blowing up and I'm sure everyone's like, what's, when it's my time in the sun? Like when do I get to that level? I'm already at a huge level. But yeah. But yeah.

And then what happened, you're absolutely right, Dave, because what, if the Chevy left, Bill Murray was replaced. Yeah. Um, if the Chevy left, Bill Murray, yeah, and Bill, not only became a hit on the show, but he did meatballs, he did stripes. Oh my God. He did catty shack, you know, and then he's had this huge career, flour childhood. Yeah, this career, you know, and so there were some people The order of succession was sort of lept over, you know what I mean? If some people felt that wait a second, it's my turn. All right, you know

Hey, I've been here long ago, you know, and like I said, I never had those discussions with people But I would bet anything that there was a degree of hey wait a second Why is so-and-so getting this not me, I've been here longer, you know, or haven't I proved my worth or that? Look, lo and through everybody into the deep end of the pool, you know, whether you could swim or not and you either drowned or somehow you made it to the side of the pool, you're okay. Oh, yeah. Lauren was amazing.

And everybody in the pool, when you get used to it, you know, is this sketch ever going to work? You know, he was tough love. And then, you know, if I felt like I had to levitate the room, I had to just kill on the show. And then you just pass Lauren on the way to the next sketch and get that little nod. But so he was great that way that to earn that compliment. And then he'd review the show on Monday very briefly. And he'd always pick out something very obscure rather than the sketches that killed. He said, I thought Jan's exit off from that sketch was breathtaking.

You know, I'm attitude. So Lauren kept you off balance, but he had a method to it, you know, to keep us all. It's so hilarious. You know, something, when I went out to LA to do the shanling show and Dana, I remember meeting you through Gary. I think the first year we did the show was ABC Prospect and I don't know if you came to see Gary, but I remember first hearing through Gary, right? I remember and just to intersect for a second, when I went there that night to watch the taping, first of all, I love the show.

It was always in the, his other show was Gary's brilliant, but, and you, but then Gilda there that night to watch the taping. First of all, I love the show. It always it was and it is how the show was Gary's brilliant, but and you, but then Gilda came out. I guess she was doing kind of okay and she came up behind the curtain and I it was so the audience reaction to seeing her. Well, it was just an incredibly emotional moment. You were there right? She was in remission at that time, and she said, ask me if I can help her make cancer funny. She said that her humor was the only weapon she had against this fucker. You know, she personalized the cancer. And when she came out, and she was afraid that nobody would recognize her here was shorter.

Oh my God. And she hadn't been on TV in many years. When she came out, the audience not only erupted, okay. When I went to edit the show and I wanted to use the angle of her entrance, I saw that the picture was just bouncing just a little bit and I couldn't figure out why and then I remember the night that we taped the show, the cameraman on that angle, he was crying and his hands were shaking. So if you ever see it on TV, you look for it, it's subtle, but it's there. And David, I remember having a dinner or a meeting with you,

somebody named Ray at the Brewsting Company, because I wanted you to date. Ray Rio. Ray Rio. Ray Rio, it's Ray. Yeah, manager. Yeah. And I wanted you to be on the show.

I thought you could be Gary's friend or something. I know it didn't work out. Yeah, we talked about maybe a pizza guy, or I talked about dating, or whatever, like a guy that comes in and I remember that Yeah, cuz Bernie Brad Gervitz everyone we talked about and then and then it but the show went away It was too after that and it didn't work out, but I love just the idea of

That would have been so fun cuz I watched that show is so cool. It's um Oh, so this is just back to Lauren for a very quick second. So we were doing the Shanling show and I guess it was around 1989 and 90 whenever the 15th anniversary show of SNL, the reunion show was. And you know, it's just like going to your high school reunion and you go, all right, what have I done since I was in high school? Oh, yeah, I got a car, I got a car, I got a house, I got a thing.

All right, we're gonna be okay. So, we fly back for the reunion and the door is open on the eighth floor and we run into Ann Beats, who was one of the writers when I was there, she was writing the anniversary show. She was, you know, okay, and I hadn't seen her in many years. And I go, hi, Anne, what's doing? And she just shakes her head and goes, fucking, lorng. So I go with the novel. Not a lot. Not a lot of change there. Yeah. Oh, yeah it was always, on the 40th,

I was the most fly by the Cedar pants show that I have ever been on. I mean, we didn't get any of the run-throughs or practice shows. Mike and I were back in a little room going, I don't know, look for Kanye, we'll see if we can make something out of it. But yeah, that was, it's a very melancholy

or weird thing when you go back there, when you go back to 17 floor 8H Yeah, it always gets something comes over me a little bit And I see the pictures. I'll see Phil and a picture and and Jan and for the obvious reasons But how do you feel when you go back there? There's a lot of ghosts there for me. It's John It's killed I knew Jan I knew Phil, but obviously I knew the other guys better. I worked with them for five years. Dave Wilson, who is our director. Our director too.

You want to do what you want to do? What? Yeah, the show isn't half out. I didn't do any changes. No, he, we love baby. He was like, wait a minute. You want to put a camera on a tomato? How am I gonna get the angle?

Smiling change is he goes Robert. I mean I got it. It was that after-dress meeting when it was so tense. Yeah, I've been lorenzo I feel like reading all the change. Okay on tweenie sisters. We're gonna change this. He's like well I can't It's a job that should not exist directly. It's not a lot. It shouldn't exist. But it does.

And by the way, not only didn't exist, you know what, wouldn't have existed without Dave Wilson was Dunkin' Donuts. That's he ate them like they were going to the jelly donuts. Yeah. Such a nice guy too. The greatest guy in the world and he lived in Parsippany, New Jersey. He commuted every night. He had a wife and kids.

And as I remember it, Lauren hired him very much because he didn't have an ego, okay? That was stated, right? Okay, it would be, yeah, there might be an initial panic attack, but ultimately he would figure it out because of the show, you know, and he was really good for it. Great, but he was great that way.

He was great. And I found that super useful, because I was in a couple of movies here and there, and I was so bad because I was being so directed and doing hundreds of takes. And on SNL, it was great. It was just sort of get the shot. You and when I did church lady with Rosie Schuster, you know, who was great and she thought

of the name church chat. So we worked on it for like a month, but there wasn't classic direction. Like I knew the character from my standup. So it was very liberating as a perfect. No, no, a character like that. I imagine that you were given all the leeway that you followed you. You don't regained you this much space on Rosie Schuster by the way. I insist and I know that Frank and you mentioned him earlier. He feels the same way wrote when I was there what I believe to be the best joke of the fight and it never

saw the lot. Oh, wow. This is, this is Jesus. Okay. Rosie, Rosie pitched a sketch of the 10 worst Hanukkah gifts ever. Okay. ever, okay? And number one was the Hanukkah that they gave and Frank a set of drums. No, as a writer, I'm going, wow, I live to be a thousand. You know, look, there's always this little bit of a competition. You go to read three, you go, oh man, I should have thought

it that way. I could have done that. But there was certain people, you go to read three, you go, oh man, I should have thought of that. Oh, I could have done that. But there was certain people like when I was there, Michael O'Donnell, you or Acroid, okay? Acroid. I could never do balsamatic, you know, where you would drink a fish. So I would just sit back and enjoy the ride. Yeah. Yeah, that's so great.

So let for a second, because John Belushi is an overarching person in the history of SNL. So you wrote a lot of the samurai. So you hooked up with him and then wrote the final nine of them. How many were there? What was that relationship like with John? It was like 10 or 11. The first one was John auditioned for the show with that character. You brought that character to the show, okay?

The very first one was written by Tom Schiller and It was samurai hotel which with with Belushi and I want to say Richard prior, okay? Which is the seventh show Of the first season. Yeah from the first season. Oh, juicy now Now the 11th show, the 11th show, Buck Henry was coming in, Lauren came up to me and said, before you got the job here, you worked in a delicate test and didn't you.

And I did. So he says, you think you can write Samurai Deli? And I went, oh yeah, the piece of cake. Oh wow. He walked away, I'd go, what the hell am I gonna do now? So I wrote Samurai Delhi and then every, all the other Samurai's, the eight or nine that came afterwards. Samurai Night Fever. Yeah. Samurai Night Fever. I wrote. That's what I remember because

it was so hilarious in the movies, such a huge hit. And it sounds funny. Samurai Night Fever. It sounds very close. Oh, funny. You know, who the host was for that show and was Yondah Bulk Henry. Nope. OJ Simpson. Oh, whatever happened to him. Where's he? I just sort of lost track. He retired from football. He did naked gun. I don't know what happened. Now, do you think samurai, I mean, this is probably obvious question. Could not be done in 2022. You guys probably had the most leeway. Maybe my cast. I don't know, but it definitely changes a certain point. I mean, I obviously did an Asian character who didn't, you know, but no more,

right? You can't do samurai. I would think you're absolutely right. I mean, certainly for my era, Rosanna, Rosanna, Dana, I don't think you could see the light of day. Oh, really? Why? Because some of her jokes are... Because it was sort of Puerto Rican-ish. Oh, okay. Oh, that's right.

Yeah. Okay. And the Samurai... And she wasn't Puerto Rican, yeah. No. Those days are over, yeah. Yeah. So, I think that... I don't know when it started, but it may have happened after you guys

were there. It may have been within the last 10ish years or so. You know, I don't have an exact, you know, when the woke thing and cancel culture and all politically correct, really started. What's that? What are you talking about? No, go ahead. Yeah.

I mean, it must get tough for every year because it seems to get, but the show, you know, still has funny stuff. It's just, it's such a landmine to get through and go, well, this could rub people wrong. And the whole idea of the show was to rub people wrong and to get laughs and to shock people. And that's, that's really where it's hard because if that's the point of it, and that's the point of being good and then you can't do that, I, you know, what's left is so tough. Yeah, for me, I just didn't, I, the idea that I was going to hurt someone will never occurred to me or the idea I would decimate somebody sitting in the dark crime. I never even thought of that. So now I just do Western Europe. I can do France.

I do Western Europe. I do Ireland. I'll do Britain, you know, but I don't go East. I can't do Indian. I know. So I just stay. I can do Putin. I can do Russia.

It's not the problem. I can do all those cultures. And that's where I'm, but I'm fine with that. I can still do a beetle. I can still do a palm of carton. So I long for the days where we all made fun of each other and they went for lunch. You know what you mean? We were fron, that's what you did.

And the people who object are usually not the people who you make the jokes about. It's some other group who is telling everyone, no, you can't do that. You go, wait a second. And the show was, you're absolutely right. That's what made it, the hit that it was, it expanded all parameters. And if you go back, and if these will apply, well, Lenny Bruce wouldn't have been around. You know what he made? I don't know if Chico Marx could do the Italian accent that he did. No, no, he's out.

Bruce is out. Chico's not letting me make it. In their sharliny. Carlisle. Done. Carlisle stays in the suit. He doesn't go hippie-dippy. He doesn't go seven words.

You can't stay. He does the weather. The hippie-dippy weatherman, maybe. So yeah, it's an interesting idea. I don't know. Even in movies, you see that the bad guys are only vague Russian. You know what I mean? It's somewhere over there.

We are aware. Yeah, yeah. The big human is the bond. Yeah. It's the place. I know where you don't need to know where I'm from. I am from nowhere and I'm from everywhere. Yeah.

I speak on your grave. I'm just bad. That's all you need to know. That's fine. But so I'm cool with it. I got a lot of tools. I'm fine with it. But even talking about it now on this podcast, fly in the wall available wherever podcast or. It makes me a little nervous, you know, because I don't know. Aren't we the ultimate? We talked too much. Yeah. I'm scared. We're too much scared we scared we're too much. We're so white that it's not even We're out yeah, it's um and some of us have very nice skin considering our age as you pointed out I don't know what you've done and I don't judge

Um I don't see you at a lot of clinics and it's it's not judge rest or I don't know you've done Dermabrasian. I don't know how you've done it or why you've done it, but you've done it. And you looked at it. I didn't cheer him abrasion on my weener. Just end now, though. Just you're good now. No more. Okay, you're good. You look great. So any tighter it would be like it would really be off the charts. And then people start to notice. It's like Madonna, who I love is wearing a mask. I think it actually she actually just wears a mask. It's a

What about James Conn? Oh, is he tighter now? Jimmy Conn. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's back to sunny Corleone. Sunny, sunny Corleone is, is, is, yeah, his eyes are bulging and we let us say bulging in this

You put my sister again. I'll fucking kill you. That's all I remember. His bulging eyebrow, well, I don't know. I mean, I just put on glasses, fluff it up, cop an attitude is the big part of life, you know, act young. Hey, Alan, you know Steve Martin,

who is probably one of my all time favorites, especially growing up, but still to this day. He's very, very good. You're tight with him because I saw you wrote on his best show ever. That was right in his fucking hatie, his back then, right? Oh, that was a live show that we did the night before Thanksgiving, okay? So it was the Wednesday night, it was a live. It was live, okay.

It was live. And was alive. It was live. And boy, that was fun. You know, it was because we had been away from the show all year and a half, close to two years. So to get that rush, yeah, where you can write something in a half hour later, it's on television was really exciting. Yeah, it's hard to do jokes where you do them in a movie and they sit for a year and you go, fuck, I gotta wait because someone could step on a comedy that's not sit well on a shelf.

It's like, you just want to get it out right then, right then. Absolutely. And now I write books and plays and movies and a fumble lucky. Fumble lucky. It sees the light of day two years from now. Yeah, yeah. Al Franken asked me to ask you another one.

He said you wouldn't mind talking about your experience with the movie North, Rob Reiner's movie. You can pass on this. I have questions about that too. Uh, okay, here we go. And the sequel itself. Remind me to thank Franken in, by the way. Okay, so this was a film done by Rob Reiner and.

Well, it started out as a book that I wrote. Okay, you were your first best out. Okay, I ended, I left SNL in 1980. Robin, my wife and I started having a family. And at one point, our was son who was around seven. I was able to tell at the dinner table, by the way he looked at me and Robin, that the kid was thinking,

I could do better than these things. I could do better than these things. All right, so. Parents. I wrote a book about a little boy named North who didn't feel appreciated by his parents. The clear to himself a free agent and went all over the world offering his services as his son to the highest bidding set of parents.

So I write the book for Random House and I got the manuscript. Now Rob Reina had hosted the third SNL ever. I sent him the manuscript just for a blurb for the book jacket. And I remember the blurb he sent, was if you read only one book this year, I wouldn't call you an avid reader. Okay, that was the blurb that he tell you.

Okay. So he said, you know something something I really liked this book. He said, you know, I'm a director now, and I'm going, no kidding. He did, uh, Harry would sat, when Harry met Sally, uh, a few good men. Few good men. Right. He said, I'd like to do this as a movie.

So it's music to my ears. I moved the family out to LA. Okay. And two years, I'm spent writing this script, adapting my own thing. Now it's a $50 million movie. And Julia, we drive this Jason. Bruce Willis, my old friend Dan Acquate, a little eight year old actress, her first job, her name was Scarlett Johansson. All right. Elijah Wood. Elijah Wood.

John Lovex, yeah. Love it. Reba McIntyre, it just went on and on. Now it's too big to fail. Well, let's discuss that. Well, I think people are interested with a guy that, a career where we have so many things work. This is just interesting because I've had movies that I don't, I read and, and just somewhere

along the way, it's not what I thought. And I think it's interesting to hear from you, as you're saying, along the way, something that is working, something happens and you, something got derailed, okay. Did you ever figure that out? No, because it may have been episodic. He went to about eight different countries and it might have read like a series of sketches,

okay, with each of that appearance. But it was the night of the premiere and I flew my parents out from Florida, Boca Raton had two less Jews that night. They were in LA. The movie, greatest night of my life, I adapted my own book. It's a 50, then the reviews come out the next day. For those of you who don't remember, Roger Ebert's review of North, and I think this is what's right in his hand, folks. It's in his hand, the review of North.

Which I took out of paper, not even online. Which I took out of a wallet, okay? Roger, you keep it with you at all times. Roger Ebert was a big, big reviewer back then. Yeah, he will, he and... A biggest. Gene Siskel had that show. Don't do it, okay.

Huge show, so let's hear it. Okay, here's his review. Oh boy. I hated this movie. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha tempering stupid vacant audience insulting moment of it. Haydn the sensibility that thought anyone would like it. Haydn the implied insult to the audience by its belief that anyone would actually be entertained by it. Now on the surface, this may seem like an unfavorable rip. You can read it again.

You can. You can. I was devastated. Oh boy, I'm going to tell it again. You get it out. How you dig in. I was devastated. Boy, I'm going to take a shot. How long did it take you acutely to get past that two months? I would say about six months. We lived in LA where, as you know, a lot of people, rude for other people, who don't

know, veterans. Our son, Adam, what the crossroads, that was a private school that we sent them to. And he would not only, he would get taunted by the other kids, we would go business kids. He would, he came home and said, Dad, is it okay if we change our last name to Sorkin? You know, so it was, it was, it became difficult,

but it took about, it took four to six months to get up off the couch because I had given the guy the power to, you know, boy, you know, and it's always, somebody who's related to you, they mean well, but my father would say, don't read time magazine. H 79 column three. I doggierd it. Jim. Passive aggressive friends that would say something like, I don't know if I should tell you this, but there's this review. I don't know if you want to hear this.

So is it they didn't want to just rub your face in. So what was your, I know you did curb your enthusiasm. What was your after north? What was your next success? Well, I had written a book that was the best cello called Bunny Bunny. It was about me and Gildup. Yeah.

And it was my way of dealing with her death. And it became a successful off Broadway play. And that is even talk about doing it as a movie. But God knows. But curb was great fun because Larry is my old friend. And I also, there was a big success. I collaborated with Billy Crystal on a Broadway show that won a Tony called 700 Sunbass. Yes, know all about it.

Yes, for sure. And it was. So Billy and you did a lot together as well. Go ahead. Oh, yeah, we did that. And then we recently did a movie with Tiffany Haddish and him called here today. I thought it was great. Yeah, thank you.

I didn't. Billy was awesome. And that really really directed it as well. So, you know, so did there's been peaks, but you know, look, the valleys are, you know, I did when I was promoting the book. I did CBS Sunday morning. You know, that guy, Dr. John LaPouque, who is the medical guy, he's Norman Lear's son-in-law, greatest guy in the world. And he had one of these kind of podcasts, oh, it was for CBS this morning, it was called. And I was in the middle of pandemic. And the theme of it was failures. Okay. And I'm going,

gee, I'm on with Norman Lear. And all you think about is all in the family and more. And all that, he named 13 shows, AKA Pablo. These are the shows I never heard of before. So you look at your idols, you know, you look at the Paul Simon's, if you're gonna go into music, you're gonna look and go, not everybody was a hit. You know, there was 100% never. Yeah, Alan, when you did North,

do you, is there one point in a Willettico, but is there a point during, you see a rough cut and assembly or just clips or dailies where you go? I don't know if it's clicking, because sometimes you're too close to it and you go and people are like, oh, it's hilarious. And you're like, okay, good, because I,

you can't really tell a long way to see it all together. Yeah, and then is there one point where people started getting nervous or you started getting a vibe like, uh-oh. Well, you're absolutely right. Like, this is old adage that no movie is as good as as it's daily's and not, no movies as bad as the first cut. Okay. Yeah. So, uh, our daily's were great because like I said, it was episodic. They were almost like sketches that we did. So you so you judged it that way. Strong together with a narrative. Go, oh,

boy. All right. What's going on here? Then we played it in front of some audiences. And Rob was used to 95% 97% at top two boxes with all of his hits. And, you know, I don't know if we were in this single digits, but we weren't in the high double digits by any big deal. I haven't, I, I, I, sorry, I just was, because about daily, I'm a theory about that, because you know, modern Woody Allen, I know he has his issues privately.

I'm a fan. He started using moving master shots. So a lot of threes and fours and people moving I know he has his issues privately. I'm a fan. He started using moving master shots. So a lot of threes and fours and people moving in the frame. So when I, some of the shitty movies I did that I wasn't in control of, the daily's are pretty good because there'd be the moving master or a wide shot. And you would see it all the rhythm and then you'd see it just fucking cut to pieces. And it doesn't, it doesn't go from funny to pretty funny.

It goes from funny to incredibly not at all funny. And that's just a directorial thing. Well, that's what I admired about, you know, a Billy when we did here today. And also with Rob, I did a few movies with him. I've been lucky to work. I'm working with Barry Levinson now. And then, yeah, I'm writing something with him. And what Billy Crystal did in that movie here today,

where he played a character like Herb Sargent, like the senior writer at an SNL kind of show and but he had the onset of dementia and since you shoot movies out of sequence where was he in the characters progression towards getting very hard okay so but he would come in every day knowing okay so it's about the script. Okay, I I was here Now I'm gonna be here. So when it's cut together, it doesn't you know, it doesn't jump Yeah cognition or whatever, but that's what the great directors do, you know

They stay on yeah, they make sure you stay on you and say where you are and where you're going to from here Yeah, can I see some stay on to you and say where you are and where you're going to from here. Yeah. Can I see some some basic questions because I think a sure because you're a writer and you've had this long long career and you're still your you're writing movie Barry Levinson your 45 years and or whatever. I mean what what was it about you you think do you ever analyze Do you ever think like, why me? Well, how did I manage this? And what was the main characteristic that you think you needed to get through?

Is it just keep going? Or what would you tell young writers who are listening to this podcast? And dreaming of having your career? I would tell them, first of all, there are a lot of naysayers out there. I don't know if you guys ran into them whether it was a manager or an agent. Sometimes your friends, you know, college friends when they all went to med in law school and

they came back Thanksgiving, they made fun of me because I was working in a deli and selling jokes to Forty Gunty. I think that, I think that, look, when this book starts, I'm 21. At the end, I'm now 71. So it's 50 years. I think if you stay in your lane, I couldn't write for, I don't think I could write for SNL now. I do miss the activity that I do. Yeah. That are adrenaline rush and all of that. But with the exception of weekend update, which is jokes, which I think I would be able, I don't think that it would sound like an old man trying to predict what the kids will laugh at that. Okay. So the movie here today, I could not have

written 10 years ago until my father got dementia, until Billy's aunt got dementia. So we lived it. So I think it's like, I think there's an audience for everything that's honest. I think an audience can smell fraudulence a mile away, you know what I mean? Yeah. We put on a hat that really doesn't fit, you know? And trying to stay the word is relevant. That's sort of a thing of life for an older performer trying to stay relevant. It sounds so negative. Well, yeah, if you try too hard, it can really back up.

You're trying to say relevant. It's like, I think you are your whole career. You just want to be in the mix. That's shouldn't be negative. It's what you guys have certainly proved that you've got longevity. I mean, how do you, how do you do it? you've got longevity. I mean, how do you do it? You do tell me. I mean, you go up and you do what you do. What? Never Lauren Michaels always says, he says, you just keep going. You never stop. It's

Sydney.ca told me that. You just keep going. I did. And it's that thing of like you're just going. Of course so, two minutes ago. Love, Lauren. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Lauren, we do that. You know, there was an anecdote I have in my book and this literally happened when Shanling and I, we came back east to look for actors for its Gary Schaling show. And we went to catch a rising star. And we're at the bar was David Brenner, who I had not seen. Remember him?

I flew on MGM Graham with MGM Graham. Yeah, Graham. I love Graham. I flew. I had a flight where I was sat with David for the whole flight. And he had a tank top on he was really tan and I go to his your life awesome. He goes, yeah, he goes on sailboats and he has lots of girlfriends. Anyway, I remember him.

It's very likable. He was a very, and he was always very nice to me. He would walk into catch. I hadn't seen him in a while. And I go, hi, David. And he goes. All right, so me and Shanley go up to him. And he goes, and I was hoping he was kidding. I would bet everything that he was not though, because I was looking for some sort of a wink. He said, I figured out what the funniest number is. So I like it already.

So I said, really? What? What number? He goes guess. And I go get, I go, David, there's lots of numbers. I don't have this kind of toy. He goes, Shanley goes, we don't know what's the funniest number. So David looks around to make sure that nobody's within ear shots.

Yeah. So nobody would hear this secret. And he whispers 267. And he goes, you're kidding. He says, I've tried them. 267 gets the best laugh. Okay. So Shanley and I are now worried about David's mental health. We say goodbye, we leave. And when we were writing shows together, Gary and I,

I, yeah, we need a joke here. Gary, I'll have about 266. Okay. Now, when I wrote this book, Now, when I wrote this book, Steve Martin read it and gave me a very nice quote, but Steve couldn't believe that Brenna had done that. That 267 is the funniest number. So to this day, I'll send Steve an email that just says, well, I'm gonna make you laugh now, Steve, that, that, that, then I just write 267. And the whole right back, he says, I really appreciate it, Alan,

because I was having a 360-year kind of day. Okay. Okay. Dana, I'm gonna take a while, guess, and say that you're not in your kitchen. Okay, I'm just- I'm in a bedroom. Oh, you mean David's face. My lurch. No, no, guys, I'm in a bedroom. Yes, guests office. I do a lot of stuff here. Wow.

Yeah. I don't really like to have grand things. David has a gigantic superstar Al Pacino and Scarface mansion. I have a humble town home. but we don't know who has a greater net worth. And that's a question the audience is obsessed with. I have cocaine stucco on the outside of my walls. I never thought I'd have a house. I never see how I still do Scarface when I feel like it. I say I'm doing Al Pacino's eccentric bizarre Cuban accent. So I'm not saying this.

I'm just doing. You removed yourself. Yes. Yes. Okay, man. Look at your man. You got a fish. Like a baby.

Look at that man. Look at you, man. You don't know. So it's a really fun accent to do. You're one of the best. I love you. You're one of my salaries. You put distance. Yeah.

You put distance between you and that. That's great. And saying, I'm just doing that. I'm not doing Cuban America. I think you're still going to get canceled, but good job. So if you, I'll care's another one I like. Which you can never answer. Your favorite thing you've ever worked on.

It's either a sketch movie, a Broadway show. Oh, you'll never be able to answer this. I'm just throwing it. No, but I mean, I can throw out some 700 Sundays was really great because it's about the process. You know what I mean? The product was successful, but the fact that my best friend trusted me with

his family who I haven't met to put words in their mouths was it was something really honorable and glorious about it. I think the book Bunny Bunny because it was also from the heart. It was about Gilda. I had a children's book called Our Tree Name Steve, which was successful, but it was also about our family. So it's more of the personal things. You know, I could say any of the SNL thing. You know, when we started, when Gary and I started, I have the fondest of memories of when we started, because we discovered each other,

we became good friends, made each other laugh, and we were on for 72 shows. They got a little hairy towards the end. And why did it go off the rails a little bit in terms of your relationship? Well, I think that relationship also was related to the work. I was married with three kids. I was the commission of my son's little Italy. Busy dad. Yeah. kids, I was the commission of my son's little Italy, and you know, and I wanted to write

about that stuff. Gary, it's Gary Schellen show didn't have room for that. Gary played that single guy still trying to get there. So he resented the time that I would think about something else. And I was at that that I couldn't put this stuff into there and by the time we ended the show We weren't really talking and it was he came back east and he was at Oh a hotel in Atlantic City like the Borgata one of those places my wife Robyn saw that he was gonna appear there And she said I'm bringing Alan down. I'm putting you both in a room And you're not coming out until your friends again, you've been through too much together. And that's

pretty much what happened. But Gary did Larry sand. It's, you know, I did other things. And so we weren't on the same set every day or in the same office. So I had to be pursuant to him. There was something about him that I still wanted. Okay, I still needed. I still wanted. And we got pretty close to getting back to it and then he died, you know. So I know, grudges, you know, you get wounded and show business people, people fall out, all kinds of drama. I guess it's true in every business, but show business is so very closely as tough. And especially if something is very important to both of you and it just almost inevitably you're going to go in some different directions writing and performing, you know. Yeah, what attracts you is about to have a writing

partner is, okay, I'm going to make up numbers now. 300, 60, what was it? 267. The 80% of, we think alike. Okay, that's what draws you together. But the other 20%, you each bring something to it that you couldn't have done alone. So the Alpemy is one and one equals three, you know. And I had that beautifully with Gary. I had it when I wrote Martin Short Show. I had it with him. I write with Dave Barry now if you're familiar with him. Yeah, I, I, so there's an understanding, but it's different when you write with somebody for that person. Because if they don't believe in it, even, you know, they're not gonna say it with conviction. It's gonna be false.

So I love your pro, I love how much you just get up, you write every day. I mean, there's, it seems like you're such a natural fit. Cause for me writing is the toughest part. I find it really exhausting. I have to take a nap after a two hour. Oh, it is, it is, yeah. That's what made SNL so great or any TV show

is osmosis and the synergy of all these people coming in and out of offices and whatever, you know, I remember Lorna originally saying that the more initials that are on top of the first page of any sketch, the more you was happy with that means it had the more sensibilities. Someone puts their couple, you can always snag a good joke, because everyone's good. Yeah, yeah. And you know, here's something that I'm pulling out of the same wallet. Remember the playwright, Herb Gardner,

he wrote a thousand allowance. He talks about a writer's life, okay? Your days are spent making up things that no one ever said to be spoken by people who do not exist or an audience that may not come. Okay. It's like total futility, it seems like. So it's like a real force of will, I find.

Like if you know something's going or if you're going to be on a television appearance, you're very, you know, you're very stimulated and very focused. But the idea of being in a room for so long and not knowing if it'll ever be seen or get made, that's the discipline of a writer. That's absolutely right. Absolutely. I love it. Is this a waste of time ultimately? Is this not going to, I see it, but maybe it's not going to touch somebody the way I do and all that.

Yeah, it's very lonely. But to go full circle on this, what's so cool about you now you're right in a movie with Barry Levinson. Yeah. So pretty good shot that'll get made. Is it live streaming or is it a probably like I think we we see it as a feature. You know, but you know, who knows now? Yeah. Who knows now? You know, and there's another one Rob Reiner is now the head of Castle Rock again. And the director Barry Sondinfeld wrote a memoir which is hilarious called Barry Sondinfeld, quote your mother, Rob optioned it

and they're hiring me to adapt it. So I'll be working with two Barry's, you know, or Wolfgang. I'm sure you'll be counting Dave Barry. But yes, so an answer to your question, if you surround yourself or work with people like that with the odds are better, that it will reach fruition, you know, materialize, it does give you a little bit more hope when you spend all these hours by yourself.

So 50 years in and you're just really in demand, it's just nice, right? Obviously. And I've been lucky, you know, and your book out that I've gotten halfway through because my Kindle was out of battery. He's been anyway. What's the name of it right now? The one that's your current book about your life as a writer. It's called. It's called. It's called. It's called. Lath lines and the subtitles. My life helped being funny people be funnier. Yes. Thank you for coming on, Alan. David has been great. And this was great. We really enjoyed it. This is our, our fans, every, all of them, my wife, David. I was just

with Lorraine Nomen who told me she was on your show. Oh, yeah, that's right. She said she had a great time. She said she had a great time. Sweetheart. We love having writers on and love hearing their process, you know, so I find it really, really, really interesting. And once again, there you are. You are Alan Swybell just over Arches, the 50 years in show business. Your name is always kind of mentioned and it was always in the ether. Alan Swybell is working on this or he's there.

So congrats on that. That's pretty cool. Thanks for having me. I had asked to be on the one. I heard you guys were doing this, even before I was, was Tom, the first one was Hank's the first one. Yeah, pretty much.

Even before I knew about that, I said to Lori Jonas, the publicist, I said, I want to be on those guys. I know. So thank you for having me. Well, the only thing that's a little weird happens, Frank and I let him have a feed to hear this. And he, I'll just quote it, for having me. Well, the only thing that's a little weird happens, Franken has, I let him have a feed to hear this. And he, I'll just quote it, it texted me.

Alan's my bell is a liar. Nothing seems to have. Sorry. Okay. Anyway. Thanks Alan. Thank you man. Hope to see you guys.

Okay, take care. Good luck with it. We'll see you at some point. We'll see you at the 50th. We'll see you at the 50th if not before. Okay. Okay. Take you at the 50th. We'll see you at the 50th if not before. OK. OK. Thank you guys.

Take care. Take care. Take care. This has been a podcast presentation of Cadence 13. Please listen, then rate, review, and follow all episodes. Available now for free wherever you get your podcast. No joke, folks. Flying the Wall has been a presentation of Cadence 13,

executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Chris Corqurin of Cadence 13, and Charlie Feinen of Brillstein Entertainment. The shows lead producers Greg Holtman with production and engineering support from Serena Regan and Chris Bezlove Cadence 13.