Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade - Billy Crudup on Working with Adam Sandler & George Clooney + Theater Horror Stories

Episode Date: December 4, 2025

Actor Billy Crudup joins Dana and David for a lively conversation about his expansive stage and screen career — from unforgettable theater experiences (including a few horror stories) to the highs of live performance. They dig into his edgy role on The Morning Show and his upcoming film Jay Kelly (starring alongside Adam Sandler and George Clooney). Plus, the trio takes a detour to unpack the meaning of the American Dream and debate the best Westerns ever made — no, not the hotel chain. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I called for line, and we didn't have any system in place for line. So calling it back. From the booth, I hear our poor stage manager go, I don't know what I'm going to do. Yeah, you have to tell the audience there's real bullets and you're really shooting. It's just a great idea. And one person, put it on the play bill. That's the kind of producing we need. So Billy crude up is what did we, he's on the morning show.

He's in Prefontein, right? Yeah, I was really excited to talk to Billy because I've just, you know, he, he's one of those just kind of always good actors, you know. Everything he does is great. He's amazing in the morning show, like an electric. Yeah. And yet he's sort of under the radar as a celebrity. I don't know how you describe those kinds of people. He's always good, but he's not around.

Then he comes in. He's always great. And he's in Jay Kelly, which he was promoting with Adam Sandler and George Clooney. And just very, very interesting guy to talk to. Very interesting. Yes. Adams has a lot of great things about him because once we talk to him, I went on the road of Adam and loves this dude, thinks he's a big,

He's a great-looking cool dude that you guys get into that pre-Fontaine movie a lot. Yeah, and he started Steve Prefontein. There was a few movies about this famous Olympic runner from the 70s, and his was great. He did a great job with that. So I don't know, it was just fun talking to a guy like that, you know. He's in so many, once you see his face, he's very well-known anyway, but you go, oh, that guy. Okay, okay. Yeah, we were watching Spotlight last night.

It's a Michael Keaton movie. Was he in Spotlight? And then he shows up his spotlight. It's like, and he's great, you know. So anyway, really fun, nice guy and highly entertaining, highly intelligent. Anyway, I enjoyed it. I hope you will. There he is, Billy Kutum.

We're not going to talk about how good looking is. We're going to skip that because people get so good at it on. Look at those notes. Look at it. Good. Let me see what you got space. Look. not as good

not as good scribbles that's the man who prepares that's right you and I found Justin Thoreau is when I found out

you were friends I went oh that makes sense yeah this is how I connect it good looking guys handsome guys because I'm obviously

spade in our you know sex symbols with a small but you guys and you don't you don't play it up that much

the small what you know which ass is it the sex or the symbol that's small. I don't know. Or the weaner. Somewhere an angel gets their wings when he says weiner. Got it in fast this show. This is where Justin and I met. We were doing a play in New York. And he and Paul Giamati and I were all in it. And the three of us used to take breaks regularly while the rest of them were doing drama to go play video games in New York Times Square.

And that's when he and I became friends back in 1990. Whoa. There's something about you guys. I'd say two ex-cons, you know, white-collar criminals become undercover cops. And it's called we know all the tricks. We go to the same surgeon. We've been using the same guy year after year. GMI decided to go with a different guy. God, these are three of my favorites. You're already in my top three. Giamati, I love. Talk to Justin. And now you, we could stop right now. You guys are my. Because that. guys both those two are incredible i can't keep up with them well geomani is just yeah he's a monster yeah are you in new york now uh i'm in l a right now just doing some press and stuff um now now here's a big question everyone gets with you is it three options are crude up crudup or some people pronounce it buckwad fuck face buckwad my family and i have already pronounced it crewed up uh it's german and i think there used to be an umla over it's oh an umla yeah like in low and brow yeah i'm doing the movie with being kudadap kudap that's right you did that play where you played

14 characters you get what what were so did you do a lot of different voices and accents can you do seven of them could you do i've already seen german i'm not giving it away for free pal if I know, I want to get something on the side. I'll give you three. I heard that movie multiplicity with Keaton was seven or eight. That was, I thought that was impossible. But this was a play where you came out naked and then you do 14 characters. I think you're complaining two things.

I'm not a good researcher. That's right. Your fantasies and the actual off-row away production. Actually, you know, the theater that I did do the play, and that was the first place I ever did a play in New York in 19. 1994, and in fact, there was a scene where I appeared completely naked for $225 a week. And what I might say was a relatively chilly theater. Yeah, I would say that.

You had to. Did you ever consider saying, put it on the play bill? It was an esoteric think piece on Japanese internment camp, so I'm sure you didn't miss it, Spade. You know what? I was sick that week, but I usually try to get out and watch the boards. Spade worked as a stand-in naked guy. Remember the Broadway show you did? Spade, there was a guy supposed to be naked

and then you would stand in for him as kind of a shadowy thing. And that was the last time we used stand-ins on stage? Yeah, it was the stage version of Police Academy for. It's like, the first thing is a stand-aid. It's like, I'm here and I'm naked.

So when I'm a stand-in, the audience was like this, girl or boy? And they go, they just go it's a spade yeah they go it's a spade whatever that is

yeah the other one that I did was just I told a story for you know an hour about a guy who's going through a bit of an identity crisis and he's from Indiana

but he grew up wanting to speak with a British accent so his dad beat the shit out of him and he'd never none of them had ever been to England but he didn't like he didn't like that his son like to speak like this

all the time. And so he came up with this other alter ego, which was like, oh, go, you want to fight with me? Go fuck yourself. How about that, dad? You know, to take this punch in the nuts. You know, so there was, uh, that kind of character was going back and forth. So I was having dialogues between the two of them. And so by the end of it, you just feel like you've seen a story and then the lights come up and it's just one dude. So you go, oh, theater's fun. So that was the kind of hole. Is that the 14 one you're saying? Yeah. Oh, wow. So you had to do all. That is very tough to do. It was, well, it, it was so tough, in fact, David, that they, during the first preview, first week of previews, I went up, I forgot my lines. And so we didn't, I've never

forgotten my lines like that. And I started to have a full-blown panic attack. You know, you get tunnel vision, my heart's coming out of my chest. Sure. And there's only 150 people there. It's not like anything terrible. It's going to happen. But still, you feel responsible for They're $30 in each seat. So I called for line, and we didn't have any system in place for line. So calling it back. From the booth, I hear our poor stage manager go, I don't know what I'm going to get to be here.

At which point, I shit my pants. It's a full more than pit everywhere. I cut about 20 minutes from the show, and it's a thriller that things are supposed to accumulate over time. So nobody knew what the hell I was talking about. And then I'd get home. My wife is like, I'm sure it wasn't that bad. And I'm telling this story a couple years later. And there's silence at the, we're at a brunch.

And there's silence at the end of the table. And this director, who my wife knows, says, Gabby, I'm sure it wasn't that bad, right? And she goes, I was at that production that night, one of the worst experiences of my life. But you know what? The audience would never forget it, though. I'd actually rather see a debacle because it was a complete train wreck why do they say it's like sounding live yeah this is I we have so many it's going to be a two hour but uh why don't they say when an actor loses uh their train of thought or where they've gone up is that I think I said I mean this the first time I've thought about it then but I suppose because when you forget your lines you typically go like this oh yeah looking for you look up because you go wait yeah maybe that's it I don't know I'm sure there's is a better explanation. The first few beats, they think you're acting, so they don't know.

And then someone, is it, you're standing supposed to yell it out? Is someone responsible? Well, typically it's a stage manager, but actually, that reminds me of another time that I went up, but I didn't have a panic attack on this one. It was just a quick, you know, as you get older, you, I think this is my theory, guys. Any actor already has a brain that's hardwired for internalizing text. So you can take a speech, you read it once or twice, and you know, the general

you get the story of it and the words kind of go and you just have a brain that's ready for that and as you get older that starts to atrophy a bit and you don't until you're front of people

and all of a sudden the words aren't there and I was doing a play with Martha Plimpton and Ethan Hawk amongst many others and I had this big long like five minute monologue

and at the beginning of it I went up and that was the first time I'd really gone up on stage and I thought it was kind of funny so I just kind of paused and I'm supposed to be lecturing the whole group and they're listening to me and I pause and I was like it works this is an awkward experience so I went and sat down and just kind of put my hands together waiting for the lines to come and to watch Martha Plimpton go from fake listening to real listening my most joyful

he's like listening like this and then she was like oh so weird yeah this isn't the way it's supposed to they have to adjust their acting because you're adjusting you're acting they're like oh he's doing this happening exactly somebody might yeah they think you're coming over to make a new move on your speech and they're like okay we're doing this now right

there might be somebody's going to improv some tom stopper some tom stop it was it was a tom stopper play There's no improvising there. That's funny. Sounds like a Dennis Miller reference. Christ sakes. Oh, Dennis Miller had some great references. Tommy Stopper, you know, it's like the Sam Shepard of the East Side, all right?

I don't wear that cane out of it. I just watched Baby Boom last night with my wife, in honor of Diane Keaton, yeah. Sam Shepard was in that. It's slapstick. It's 1930s. It's absolutely brilliant. And so is Diane Keaton and Sam Shepard. Anyway.

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worked on a character you know more than a couple of months so to return to this uh this guy where they keep writing you know weird shit for me to do has been it's been really fun actually the the The best part has been just being with the cast and the crew, because it's been seven years now. And you never get a chance when, I mean, you've had the, you know, I do plays and movies and wherever kind of the jobs come up. So it's like three months somewhere and you get really intense with a group of people. And then you don't see them again for a while.

So this one, getting to come back again to Los Angeles year and year with the crew and the cast has been, that's been fucking awesome. I'll say that this is true story. So my wife and I are watching, I guess season three or something, and John Ham's in it, and you're in it. And you go with live streaming shows, sometimes you miss a season, you come back. So we watch your character, who's sort of a genius, egomaniac, and just, and by the end of it, we went, fuck, Billy Crutt up. I mean, we both said, he, we were just sort of reintroduced to you by that season and that arc and that character where someone is so in the pocket.

it and so ribnick and so connected and those monologues and your alpha male confidence it just must have been a blast but it really landed with us we're like hey honey want to watch anything else like fucking billy cross i had to convince them though they didn't want me for that part i had just done that um a play where i was doing all those different characters so i was like no if you guys give me a lot to say i bet i can do it okay and then when i read that specific character if you've ever spent any time in new york and gone to a gala of any kind it's just riddled with dudes who are room readers looking for the power that they don't care about the charity they don't care about their jobs whatever they just want to be in proximity to power and they know

how to read people they talk fast they think fast they're very proud of themselves they've never failed before if they have they thought it was a lark and so that's not how i live it's a sweaty experience for me being in those, but I knew those guys. And so when those monologues started to come, the writer Carrie Aaron, she just started writing them for me. Like she would use the kinds of ways of speaking that I would use. So it was, and I never had that experience either. It was just, she was teeing it up for me. So all I had to figure out how to do is think more quickly because the guy thinks in paragraphs. He doesn't think in, you know, like little phrases. And, He's sure he's seeing around corners, knows a lot more than everybody else does.

Very proud of himself. It's very easy. It's a good character in that environment, too, because everybody's so, all the stakes are so high. Everything's so far. Yeah, it's kind of wound tight. It's so tightly wound. And so when you've got a guy who comes in and goes, hey, this won't be a problem. Let me tell you the 50.

Very laissez-faire, yeah. The audience gets a quick reprieve, and then you get back to the drama. The smartest guy in the room who knows he. he's the smartest guy in the room and you know what's funny to the is that there are plenty of producers out here and politicians too who will either come up to me or come up to my agent and say that's based on me isn't it because they're the smartest guy in the world really and Bernie Sanders said that to you wait how would he have said it they know yeah i'm you'll base the character on me did you just have a cup of coffee this is how i talk

I'm 84. Do not proceed. Why do him as a crosswalk guard in my standing back? Don't proceed. Don't proceed. The system's rigged. The system's rigged. He has a lot of energy for an 84-year-old.

He sure does. He's only 84. Yeah. Billy got a good line in the pilot where, well, the setup is, we're setting the whole stage for the whole series, but I thought the pilot was super cool. because it's very glossy, very expensive. It looks great. Mimi Leader, I guess, is director from the old ER days, maybe.

Indeed. She probably aired a lot of those winners. And so when Steve Carell gets fired and Jennifer Aniston is sort of soaking in it, and he says, nobody wants to watch a widow get fucked. I'm like, if I was reading the pilot, I would circle that and go, make sure that stays in. Let me tell you, and that was a temp one.

They were like, we're going to go ahead and do a couple of takes of this. We're not entirely sure. And I have to say, I think we have a couple others that were even, I don't know. A rougher? Hard hitting. Yes.

Yeah. For a more late night audience. But you need those lines that stand out like that. Everyone goes, whoa, okay. I would say it and they'd go cut and I'd say, I need to shower. That would say, oh, wow. Are you guys actually going to put that out there? Yeah.

Yeah. Steve Carell being a bad guy is just so much fun. Oh, that was great. He was brilliant in that. I was sad to see him go. Such a sweet, sweet guy. There's one little fetish I have about this interview, and that is that you play. I'm a track and field guy, and I am a stretch of distance running, miles through. Oh, you did. All right. So you knew about pre-funting. Yes. Yeah. And, you know, yours is. I'm a play the field guy, but go ahead.

Okay, that's similar, but not the same. That's not a Dickathlet, that's a dick athlete, right? That's something like that, yeah. I interrupted Dan. Dana's actually a good runner, so I'm glad we're talking about this. I was during that running, and Prefontein was the beetle of distance running, and Jared Leto did one called Prefontane the year before, and then yours was without limits, and you had Donald Sutherland, and I was just curious about your true.

trained what did you did you do sports in high school i did um i you know my dad was kind of a jocky guy my granddad he he set records high school records and in boxing and football and track in north carolina and he had all the pictures up all the clippings um and the trophies and stuff and my dad was always trying to live up to that tried out for the semi pro jets team but uh blew up both shoulders and was selling yarn um but he was a natural next move you know every all of the guys who don't make it into the semi pro that's right yarn one way or the other um but he had a uh a crazy affection for sports um you know it it ended up coming out um in a not necessarily legal way he was a it was a bookie for many years. But we had TVs on all the time. And so sports, it was a big thing.

I don't know if you guys ever saw the great Santini. We both lived it. We had kind of, we had difficult. Oh, really? After the dad saw that, he called us sports fans for about two years. And he was the kind of guy who my brother played baseball in high school. And my dad would bring, you know, a six pack of Miller High Life or whatever, start to get drunk in the. the stand and start yelling at the umpire it kicked out to the parking lot where he had another six-pack and start laying on the horn and yelling at him from out in the parking lot so there was a lot of sports um and i was you know i was the feelings guy i was short and skinny and i put on shows and

stuff but i liked to compete and about when you get to high school um first of all a fastball your freshman year if if you're not feeling it that that looks really fast and And baseball wasn't going to be the thing for me. And soccer, which I had played since I was like, you know, first grade or whatever, I became, you know, a lot slower as the guys got faster. So much so they called me flash for a while. And I thought, nope, that's not for me either. But I had always, I had wrestled since fourth grade.

And that's when, you know, it's a handicap system. So you're always wrestling guys your weight. So I wrestled when I was in high school. But I was not a great asset to the team. the year i was your weight class yeah what were you i was 148 um and i think we had 152 at the time were you that's that's a bit for i would have wrestled oh you were a heavy way i don't even know how tall you i don't know anything it's not necessarily fat it's i would have wrestled it at 112 i think i was about honestly

say I was 114 or something. I was like a fucking full pipsqueak, so. But I loved the competition. So when I got to do that movie, yeah, I did like exercising and stuff, but there was a woman named Patricia Donnelly who was in another of Robert Towns movies called Personal Best,

which was, yeah, you remember that, David. I do sort of. I know you do. Robert Town made a lot of great movies. There was a relationship between two of the athletes, and there was a shower scene. That's why I'm thinking you might remember that. All right.

Let's reach back in there. So we did our research about you and you did your research about David. I mean, yeah. The research comes from just taking a hard look at him, right? There's nothing to know. It exudes stuff. She said, listen, the thing that'll screw you up if you do this is if we run anything more than 200 meters at a time because we're going to do these takes.

Right. then we're going to there's going to be an hour between the setup and during that time if you cool down you're going to tear something when we get back up and going again so i'm only going to train you with intervals and we spent about like six weeks um training out here and the guy ran in the kind of specific way he's sort of barrel chested and rammed his chest out arms a little bit exactly he's kind of given it um and yeah he wasn't as efficient as some of the other runners he liked to run with guts so i I just had an incredible time getting to hang out with all those people and some really world-class athletes and runners, you know, that. And all of them, when you see middle-distance runners, it looks like they're jogging. They're running like four-minute mile pace. You know, they're just so efficient with their movement.

And a four-minute mile pace for anybody else is a full sprint. So learning how to do that, you know, was a really fun experience. I think you see them chunk together. And it looks like they're all going medium. Totally. Because they're all together. But if anyone else was running, they wouldn't be able to keep up. 100%.

You can't really tell. The cardio on those guys, it's unusual. They all have pretty physiologically unique bodies. Yeah, V02 Max is a big measurement. And Prefontein was 84, 85. There was a Norwegian cross-country skier that was 93. Then some of the people stopped testing. but Lance Armstrong apparently was an 83 or an 84.

He knew we could be to 91 or a 92. Just the engine, the way your oxygen gets to your muscles and through your cardiovascular system, heart, lungs, arteries, and all that. And so if you're really efficient, you have a gift, like you have a head start a little bit. Yeah, you definitely do. That's the gift of it.

You just can run and then you can train it. But what, so I thought it was great. I thought you really captured it. and Donald Sutherland was great as Bowerman. So that was a tremendous movie. And Conrad Hall, who shot Bonnie and Clyde, he was our cinematographer. And, you know, the fact of the matter, I was just scared shitless. That was my first, like, big part.

And I did not want to let anybody down. And I wasn't sure that I was up for the task, you know. And so I couldn't really ever take the time to enjoy the fact that I got to, was, getting a chance to work with these, you know, great people. Conrad Hall was testing out some new equipment because he wanted to do these specific kinds of shots where he was using a very long lens at magic hour. So low light, long lens means you have a very small depth of field, which means the focus puller, if you are running at him, has to be able to keep up with you in a very precise way. Otherwise, you know, you'll be.

Like in real time, it's constantly moving. But he was developing the laser at the time. He was one of the first ones using the laser to try to, well, meanwhile, I'm running over these hills again and again and again. He's like, sorry, we got precisely, which is not the exact great attitude to take with Conrad Hall. Never. So it was, it was a bit of a mixed bag. I look back at it now and I think, oh, man, I wish I wasn't such a, I know.

I thought you came. I thought your pre was great. And I thought you actually had a resemblance once you got the kind of wig on and everything and you're playing this insecure but hyper-confident, hyper-cocky. I mean, Pree was so charismatic about, I'll get it down to a pure guts race because then no one can beat me. His interviews are bonkers when you look. I mean, he had such incredible confidence.

And he also, he had, he was kind of press in about athletics as well. He was one of the first guys who was advocating thing. you're not paying for anybody you should pay for somebody i mean these amateur athletes are busting their balls they're living in you know squalor and um yeah you're the colleges are making money off of it so yeah i've always said that like the olympics is another feels like a scam because you go there you train your whole life and then it's over and yeah even if you won what's next coaching i mean you you win or you lose even worse so you train all that for nothing or whatever and then you go i have to start studying for a lot

life or a career or this lately game because I love amateur athletics I do love it it's a big sacrifice it sucks I mean I went to Carolina so I'm a college basketball fan and trying to figure out uh when one of the things that is exciting about watching college athletics is you will inevitably be watching a game where a young person becomes themselves and they'll do it in front of a crowd of 30,000 people and it is incredible to watch all the sudden this young athlete becomes the professional athlete that he's going to be the rest of his life. And, you know, you don't, if you're paying for it in one way or another, I'm not sure you're going to get the same experience. But obviously, I always thought it should be deferred income. They should be able to, there's like a pool of money that at 25, they start to get to tap into the rest of their lives or something like that.

but well at least they can do n iL i mean name image likeness they can monetize yeah they can do that yeah exactly that's you know they almost don't use any of those letters it's just money it's like what happened to the image like they go no no we'll just shovel you some cash well some of those attractive people or gymnasts that they can go on instagram whatever they make really good money they got to stay in school but there's a lot of money in professional sports i'll just go out and say it I don't know if a hot take. That's a hot take. It is.

But you want to get like Brock Purdy and the 49ers got it. He came in as the last guy drafted and then he had these great seasons, but he got his contract. He's hurt now. And it had a guarantee. Yeah, he's rolling out there with 900 grand a year when everyone else is getting 40 million. He must be like, my ship better come in soon. Right.

If he finishes this game, then he's on to his $200 million contract. Oh, he's tackled. He's down. They're taking him off. I wouldn't give him. it to him. I wouldn't give it to him. It's like, oh, $3,800. Absolutely heartbreaking. It's so brutal. I'm calling it now. I mean, they've got the, they've got the lines up on every game while you're watching them. So, like, probability to have a career will be the next one.

These with actors, we have nine lies. We can keep coming back. It's true. I watch those running back. So, like, this is a running back for the next four years. And they, they pull their hamstring. They go, next guy up, we forgot about the other guy already. It's unreal. It's. It really is. It's a rough one. Shall we talk about Jay Kelly? Oh, yeah, man. I don't want to drive the interview because I can talk to you about pre for a half hour.

Well, it was a fun experience. And typically it's the people who were runners in high school or college that respond to it. So I'm always happy to talk about it. But, yeah, Jay Kelly. You know who does some running in this? George Clooney. Cluny running? He's not doing the same kind of.

running um he's running from something but uh yeah what is the premise well the premise is there's a guy who's in the last part of his career an actor a big famous fat movie star and he's got two daughters who he has a kind of um unfamiliar relationship with they both wanted more from him than he could give and he finishes this one big picture and he's at home has a like sort of brief rest of his mentor dies and he goes to the memorial see some of his old friends some of his old classmates and realizes that maybe in this process of trying to pursue this career he's missed out on his life and you know for me there's something just gorgeous about george playing that character the and adam is his agent in it and is absolutely spectacular um but and he's really loving adoring

Yeah, he's a nice guy in it, right? Sure, Adam. Yeah. And George is too. And, you know, also too about America and how we attach our own expectations on the movie stars. That's like the gilded idea. What if everything goes perfect? You could end up with this sort of life where limousines are always pulling up for you and you're in the perfect.

And is it perfect? It's a great interesting. concept because someone who doesn't get to do that they have their kids and they give up their career the whole life they're going wow what if i had that you know i never got that and then the person gets it goes i didn't get that i didn't get the other thing which they got i'm going to put this out there for you guys to discuss but i do think there's something very american about that this uh capitalistic idea that we're the land of opportunity leaves a lot of people feeling like because most of the lives that people lead are normal and they are fine but they're not gilded and so when we in this country

has the expectation that you have all the opportunity in the world most people end up feeling like oh my great life is about to start and meanwhile while you're waiting for your great life to start you miss your life rather than accepting the fact that you know you can still work hard you might have some there might be some great payoff there but there's a beautiful life to be had just the same. But I think there's some of that in Jay Kelly. Yeah, you know, it's funny because they always say, tell your kids, you can do anything in the world. I'm like, you can't. Right. I mean, that's a little overreaching because then the whole time they'll make whatever they're doing like, wait, I could do anything. And you're like, not really. That's what I mean.

And you end up feeling my dad, he felt like shit about himself the whole time because he never hit the jackpot. And that's a tough, you know, death of a salesman is all about that. There's an American kind of ideal that there there if you don't make it then you have failed and by make it you know like you're the big wig and in a free market system there's whimsy to it like my friend knew someone who just was a nice young woman out of junior college or something got a job at apple in 97 got shares retired millionaire you know we're in a casino where people can pull the slot and i'd say the the things that had to come together for just me to get on s and l yeah that the previous season wasn't so good i was there at that time my manager bernie burlesing new

lorne michael's i mean so there's always whimsy to it and luck but in the end of the day most people are hanging out whether it's george collini or you and me you're with your wife watching this show going for a rum whatever most people just hang out but it's very difficult i think especially right now hot take social media for young people everyone's a star everyone's making millions everyone seems to be better looking than they are in the mediterranean everyone's on a yacht and they're all curating their lives none of it's like i'm like how much of that shouldn't picture why not post that one because we look terrible and that's kind of how we felt that day wouldn't that makes for good content that might be a real like shows the life that it's not always 10

out of 10 every second. I think that would be great. Whatever platform is going to take over, I don't know, there's some Instagram corollary in there you could come up with. You're like, hello sharks. Everything you get, you give up something and everything you give up, you get something. So if you're going to get all that fame, then you're sort of an exotic insect out in the world. And that's precisely what Noah is taking a look at.

You know, I think part of him, too, was kind of disenchanted with movie making. After this movie, he did, White Noise came out, and he didn't feel like people understood it in the way maybe that he wanted. And so he wanted to make a movie that was about how lovely movie making is and how lovely the experiences for the people who get to do it. So part of it is really charmed, but there's an underbelly of, I think I've really missed my entire life. and there's this great line by his daughter where she says, you know why I know you didn't want to be there because you weren't there. And it's like, oh, and he goes, but all of this, everything that I've done, all these movies that I've made, all the ways in which I've transformed culture and entertainment,

it must be worth something. And she's like, but what if it isn't? You're like, God, man. Stop talking to that kid. Because they are just, just moving. I'd be like, you're out of my will. Just those two. Yeah, he goes, you know, it's probably he's going, you know, I did all this for you.

And she's like, no, you didn't. Yes, exactly. That's exactly it. Yeah. And it's a, it's, I think it's a really, it's a beautiful. It would take some of the pretense off if we got rid of the word acting and said, and the, you know, best pretender. goes to. He can pretend in front of a lens really good. Look at this liar. I've never seen a

pretender like this. But act, haw. Now, your character in the movie is the one who quite didn't make it, who's friends with George Pointe? Yeah, he was in acting school or and he didn't that always happens. I mean, our worlds are replete with them. It's just, it's an impossible business. And so George's character runs into him at the memorial. And because George is feeling like he's just on the verge of having that idea that he may have missed out on his life. And he was like, hey, man, you were one of my buddies back in the day. We should go have a beer. And the guy's like, oh, that would be really nice. Should I, you know, call your office or something? And he goes, no, no, let's go right now. So they go and have a beer. And George's character is kind of regaling.

him and like, oh, you were the actor we all looked up to or whatever. I could watch you do anything. So he kind of pure pressures him into doing some impromptu acting. And so it's like, it's a great weird trick that's no advice to pull off. That's Noah Baumbeck. Yeah, Noah Baumack. We didn't say that. That's no one.

Oh, I didn't say that before. Director writer? Director, writer. I mean, just a fantastic collaborator. It was a completely charmed experience for me to get a chance to do it and work with those guys. So I, I breezed in for four days and now I get to do, you know, we went to Venice. No, this is great. Was Adam there?

I think he was, right? It was. We had a great time in Venice. And then we went to tell you ride together. So I feel it's all icing on the cake for me. Yeah. So behind the scenes, just man to man is Clooney? What's that all about?

Yeah. No, I wanted to give Clooney a compliment in case he hears this, but yeah, he hasn't had one. Cluny is phenomenal. He's almost exactly as you might imagine. He has the most brilliant stories. He is incredibly generous, really gregarious. I remember when we were in Venice, the paparazzi follows you on boats. It's kind of nerve-wracking experience.

And so Naomi and I were kind of hiding under the canopy from them. And George does the opposite. He goes up and takes the wheel of the boat. And so he can get all the pictures. He can't escape. He's like Mickey Mouse out in the world. Venice is my life. And he's pretty impressive, the number of ways that he's involved,

not just in the career, but involved in our culture and our politics. He's out there. He lives in a very, very big life. He did a nice thing early. on and came to the premiere of either black sheep or Tommy Boy and talk to my mom for 10 minutes and my mom will always remember it. And he was, he was killing it then. He's actually never really been not killing it for most people. From ER on, it's been up here. So even back then, he talks about his career with the level of humility too that is unusual for someone who's accomplished

the kinds of things that he's accomplished. But he still has that old memory of being a working actor, not having ER yet, trying to get jobs, doing some shitty movies. I mean, he- Doing facts of life. Yeah. And Laura Dern were on the stage at New York Film Festival talking about the fact that they had both been in Grizzly 2, which wasn't released. Someone else just told us that. Yes, until like recently.

And it's like they die in the first scene, but they're the headliners now on the case. Oh, that's so funny. I love George Clooney and The Descendants, which is one of a movie, one of those movies that my wife and I will visit once in a while. Yeah. Because it's so brilliant. And his scene at the end where he says goodbye to his wife in the hospital, that is masterclass. I mean, that's as good as it gets. I agree.

Yeah. I agree. He's a superb actor. And there is a funny kind of thing that happens in the movie is there's a tribute to Jay Kelly. And you see the George. Clooney movies. All of the actual ones? That's funny.

Oh, funny. So it's kind of like... No, that's interesting. Okay. Oh, no. And it's supposed to be at a film festival. So when we took this to film festivals and watched the film festival crowd watching George watch a tribute, it's really, it's an exceptional and unique experience.

And would you call it dromedy, comedy? What would you say? Yeah. Okay. It looks like to bring in a little bit of, there's some edge to even his most lighthearted movies. There's something uncomfortable, something. But George and Adams' relationship in particular is,

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can see like they're biding their time. But very few do you see like some mentorship. And like they, they see what you specifically, David Spade, have to offer. And they're able to promote that in a way that not only makes you feel good about it, but tells the story of you to people who want to hire you. And that's who he plays in this. It's hard to find. That's hard to find. there's a great line in the movie where adam says he goes you're j kelly and i'm j kelly exactly you know it becomes like this and you know it's i'm sure you've done it yourself um you know a young actor you saw in a play or you meet and you want to say nice things or encouragement or and that's a skill set and an art really too to not look like you're shining

a mom but actually specifically i always say specific compliments absolutely and And not condescending either, like, oh, I'm an old stage or whatever. It's really hard to, but it's important. I mean, I remember the people who, terrific actor Victor Garber, who I did play with. Do you know, Victor? I just remember him being on like Mannix. Yeah, so Victor was like a veteran when I was working with him first time. But the way that he was supportive was, you know, unique.

it was it's a kind of thing that you feel like oh okay this might be a hard profession but at least there's some people in it who uh i can align myself with and right some people are too competitive it's not always the case there's not everyone's out there to help you out so that's it's mostly they want you to go away especially if you're any good they want you out of there so it is good to get someone that actually feels like they give a shit it's it's unusual for some reason And Soap Dish just popped in my mind. Soap is a great movie. I mean, Kevin Klein, though, but there was some kind of competitive thing between them.

I love that scene where he's on stage and he's doing, but it's dinner theater and he's doing death of a salesman. And somebody's eating and he's stern, somebody goes, you're doing very well. Oh, man. What's the play you're doing? I want to talk about this because this fascinates me. first of all j kelly november 14th in theaters number december 5th netflix okay so then you london december 17th high noon which i saw as a kid yeah and i remember it to this day it really hit me hard i think i might have been alone in 10 years old black and white uh you're making high

noon the gary cooper movie 1950s or two three right as a play in london okay that's right tell us about it there's a great screenwriter eric roth he wrote forest gump recently did star is born and it's collaborated on, you know, a million things, probably been nominated for six Academy Awards. He's never written a play before, but he was really interested in this story. He and I worked briefly together on the Good Shepherd, it was called. It was a spy movie. And I just had ready affection for him.

He was like one of the guys that you're talking about, like a real mensch, like really. like really wants to support and encourage the creative process. He understands how insecure everybody is and is just a really expert writer. In any case, high noon, it turns out, it was written by a guy who was blacklisted. The timing is not necessarily a correspondent, but what I think he saw coming was that in the face of a physical threat, people and communities will capitulate and that this sheriff who's been taking care of this town for 15, 20 years now, and it's just turned in his badge. The bad guy is coming back to town on the high noon train.

He's about to leave because he's just married a Quaker and she says, I don't want you to have anything to do with guns. And the town is like, nope, we'll be totally fine. Don't worry. And he's like, wait, I can't leave. I know what you guys were like before I got here. You're about to get screwed. This guy is, you know, slaughtered.

He is a badass, and he shouldn't have been released from jail. I don't know what happened. The politicians up north released him, but so he goes around to try to get a posse together, and everybody's like, I don't know. My shop is in really good state. I'd love to help you. The Apple Dumpling Gang. Exactly.

The Apple Dumpling game. Tim Conway popped out of us. Yeah. John Knox of what? One of my all-time favorites. We need a tonnots in this one. But so he wrote this for the stage. Yeah.

And it's... Who are you? I play the Gary Cooper part. And so I got to figure out who my sheriff is right now. So that's what I'm going to... I've been watching a lot of westerns now. They're actually great to revisit right now. There's one called the Oxbow incident with Henry Fonda.

Another one. that blew my mind as a kid my darling clementine another great like the first wyatt erp story and we found again freaking incredible shame um yeah man who shot liberty valence the man who shot liberty van balance that's another phenomenal one um so you're in on that you can sort of help figure out i'm gonna try to david we went we've got some fantastic um collaborative Pick of the letter out there. The director, Thea Sherrick, who is really a brilliant director and a great designer named Tim Hadley and an actress named Denise Goff,

who is just otherworldly on stage. And so, yeah, we're going to give that a go in London. It's exciting. I love theater in London. I saw the ferryman out there and I was just. Oh, that was a great production. I saw that one as well. Moly away.

Did you shoot Jerusalem there? No. Oh, it was another. It was a Mark Rylands one and just sublime. I'd be interested with a set design, you know, like a Western town. Well, that's the problem of it. Exactly. So, you know, when you watch the movie, they cut from inside the saloon to then to the barber shop.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't do that on the stage. So it's going to take some inventive. Also, too, there's a gunfight, you know? Yeah. How exactly do you stage that in a way that is both, you know, dramatic enough, reveal something about what it means to be shooting? at each other.

Yeah, you have to tell the audience there's real bullets and you're really shooting at each other. It's a great idea, David. And one person gets... That's the kind of producing we need. That's outside the pot. You need fresh ideas.

There is, guys. Real guns. Real guns. Think about it at lunch. Everybody signed the waiver. Just say, it's after the intermission we use real bullets. It's blanks out.

You can decide to say if you want. You want to come to the good show or the bad one? But Gary Cooper didn't have much dialogue so you probably won't have a lot of dialogue in Dana you have hit on uh two of major challenges in uh trying to stage this is he he's he's known as a guy of few words oh yeah on stage that doesn't really translate you know you adding your precious monologues well so what they've done given him yes they've given him like an internal monologue um where he um gets to speak to the audience

you know um just thinking yeah yeah no you go like this here's the new one you walk into the horse you go check out the saloon that looks pretty cool oh look they have a general store they're like billy you sure you want to add all this stuff hold on i got to write this down david check out the saloon was a lot of good filler yeah yeah you need filler here's my gary this is your only line in the first act i reckon i don't know where i'm going to be a goal Don't. Is that Obama? Oh, no.

No, no. Yeah, should have done Henry Fonda. If you have any problem, just do Henry Fonda. Nobody knows what he talks like anymore. Oh, that's it. You can use that voice the whole time. He could have done that. That's dead on, man.

That is dead on. Nobody wants to listen to anyone but Jimmy Stewart from old-timey actors. Oh, no. I mean, when Henry Fonda, his voice, actually, in those Westerns in particular, that's the thing that gives him authenticity. authenticity that's the thing that makes you feel like oh yeah that guy seems like a marshal um well i figure i better figure out what i want to do you know it's kind of a very distinct rhythm and then i can i don't like your i don't have that one yet but i'm going to be

working on it but you're going to be stoic and how how tall are you i'm six two okay so you're you know i mean i've played five eight my whole life um but uh so you'll be six four with the cowboy No, you know, it's one of those things like when you meet someone of a stature like myself who's running in at about $6.65, $5,58, $59, you have to figure out what community would want him to run the show with respect to law enforcement. So he's got a couple of chances. He's got to be really good at talking. He doesn't mind negotiating uncomfortable situations.

And it helps that this character is a vet. he fought in the Civil War. So he must have, and there's a couple of guys that I found online that were small guys who were, you know, awarded a lot of medals and stuff because they just had a screw loose and they didn't mind going into a dangerous situation. Audie Murphy. The third is you've got to be really good with guns. So those are the ones that I'm going to lean on primarily, is that he doesn't mind getting

into weird situations and he's really good with guns. Maybe Kevin Hart could play the other guys. By the way, if I had him as Frank Miller, people would say, well, that makes a perfect parent. You know, Kevin Hart's, he's pretty stocky there. Yeah, he's always working out. He's thinking about De Niro. De Niro, he plays the power guys, but Gino played the power guys because they got to screw loose. So there's something unpredictable about them.

And if you're on the short side of it, what's going to happen is he's going to rip your throat out. Something, you know. It's peshy and good fellas. Yeah, precisely, Peschian. Exactly. So you've got to figure out the good guy version of that. Hmm. That's interesting. That's interesting. I might come to London and see it. That sounds cool. And Billy, I have to say, very nice to meet you. And thank you. I know we're busting your balls, but it's great to have you on here. Right back at you, David. I appreciate you. Yeah, a lot of fun.

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