Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade - Bowen Yang

Episode Date: September 25, 2024

The Titanic iceberg, impressing Lorne, and cringe humor with Bowen Yang. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Bowen Yang. Bowen Yang. Bowen Yang has got a cool name and he's a great guest on our show. He- Fan favorite out there. People really like Bowen Yang. I think he's, we go over it specifically.

I think he's had four Emmy nominations, like every season he's been on that show. Good God. So he is he's been on that show. Good God. So he is a breakout star on that show. Officially, yeah. I think the first time I saw him, because I watch more casually and I see it on Instagram and the Titanic update bit, he's very creative.

He's got a lot of update bits that are very clever and creative and that sort of popped out. And then now he's just known as a very reliable performer. And he also pops up in movies cause he's good. So he's sort of covering the bases here. Yeah. And he talks about, uh, Cringe comedy. It's a very interesting discussion, his process and, uh, about having fun really in the end of the day

on that show. And he's got great timing when you watch him in a sketch. He's very, very confident out there and always scores. We got some Lauren stories, of course. We talked about that doofus Sarah Sherman because we laugh about her. She's always so funny and they're very tight on the show. And we don't want to give it all away, but let's get to Bo and Yang. Bo and Yang. ["Bone Yang"] If there is a movie about me, Dana,

I don't want everyone beating me up. They're like, this is his life. He was always getting beat up. And so my descendants would not like that, I hope. It wasn't everyone beating you up. The star of the movie is Chris Farley holding you over his head and throwing you across a basketball court.

That's the cold opening. That's in between takes. Yeah, that's real. And what would be the sound that our sweet friend Chris would make? Oh! Then he goes, that's good. And what would be the sound that our sweet friend Chris would make? Oh, oh, oh. Then he goes, that's good. Yeah.

Gets nervous. It's great to have Bowen on because now we're talking to you because when I went on Smart List, I said, oh, I'm gonna make this easy. I know what a guest is like. So you do a podcast, so it's already, you get the whole thing

as opposed to, can I ask questions or what do I say? I might not, but I think every show has its own unwritten set of rules or whatever. And I guess you just gotta learn how to get in there. You guys are really good at it though. Thank you. We like to send 200 episodes over to each guest just to get a feel for it.

Yeah, yeah. So they can listen all the way. What about Sarah Sherman? What's wrong with her? That's my first question. What happened to her? What's wrong with her? Ah.

Are we all like in this limerence phase with Sarah? I think the three of us are all equally obsessed with Sarah Sherman. Yeah. And we're coming at different angles. Yeah. She's a one-off and it's so refreshing. I mean, you can't even, I couldn't know,

I wouldn't know how to describe her. She's so charming. She has this, she has like an intergenerational appeal. She has like an inter whatever gender appeal, but I think like as a gay guy, I'm obsessed with her. And then in YouTube, as straight guys are obsessed with her. Like she just has this universal appeal that I need to get to the bottom of.

And I would love to have this whole episode be about her. We have to get to the bottom of it because- I'm happy to. She has, she had me at mullet and then she was funny and then she's bananas and then- Cute as a button. And then she goes on the road and she's so funny cause I just see clips and I'm like,

Sarah, what's going on on the road? She goes, I don't know exactly, but it's very funny and she's got a great show. So, but really enough about her. Let's bring on our second guest today. Sarah Sherman. I would be so thrilled. She would love you.

She throws a party wherever she goes, whenever I see seen her. And then we're invited and sort of like someone, at least on the surface, who knows how to navigate life a little bit, maybe not take it too seriously. I don't know. You know her so much better than I do at this point because you've seen her under pressure, under stress. Sure.

How is she under stress and how are you under stress on that freaking show? Uh-huh. I think we're okay. She is, you know, her and Dan Bulla, bless them both, but they will stay at 30 Rock until like 2.30 in the morning on a Thursday, trying to like get every page right. And I am someone who is going gonna call it at like 9.30 and be like, it's time to go home.

If you know, the writers table is what he's talking about. Probably the rewrite day, they read the sketches on Wednesday. I'm telling our audience, it doesn't know anything. At 200 episodes, they don't understand it at all. So they, and then Thursday they pick the sketches and then the writers would come in maybe with one of the cast members or whoever wrote it together. And you, the table rewrites, is that sort of still

how it goes? They go sketch by sketch. Sketch by sketch ends with, I mean, now, now I'm sure people have told you like, we usually don't have a cold open until Friday. So the cold open does not get a read-through table. Usually. Oh, does a cold open do a read-through?

Most of the time you don't get a cold open read-through until Saturday at Saturday tables. It's pretty, it's pretty wild. Especially if it's political, you want to wait as long as possible in case somebody says some crazy, crazy thing happens, which is the rhythm we're in now as a culture. You feel like it's high hurdling this and now this and then what's next? It could be good, don't know.

But I was just curious about how relaxed you seem. I mean, it seems like this is a trajectory of, on camera, you know, it's like, for our audience, you were first a writer and then you became a feature player. And you seem to, then the audience discovers you. And then there's this sort of massive leap that you make forward when they know you. Here comes Bowen and you've made them happy

every time they see you. What phase of that are you in right now? I think you're in the last one. Maybe, but did you guys ever, did you guys ever like take this time, let's say this time if you're recording this in like late August, like right before the season starts, you buckle down just a little bit and you're like,

let me get stuff in the tank. And it never gets used, but you're like, let me just make some water or whatever. That's the thing for sure, is that you start thinking of sketch ideas in August or anything you think of, it'll never make it onto the show. You just feel like you want to have ideas, but then the week comes and there's nothing like that week.

Right. But to answer your question, I think I'm in the stage now where, and I don't know if this is me tricking myself into anything, but I always want to go into each season as if it was my first year. Does that sound pathetic or something? No, no, I think that's good to never not kind of worry a little bit is healthy. You know, I got this. But you have to, but like that place will always

knock you on your ass. Like no matter how developed you feel like you are, right? Like, and especially like, I'm really curious about what'll happen if the show is still around for when I like return and just say hi to people or something, just to like visit the halls and like say hello. And like, I wonder what that'll feel like,

because that'll be bizarre. Have you ever gone back to your high school on a Sunday afternoon and walked around, that's what it feels like. Okay. When I went back, I go, everyone's so tiny. These rooms are so tiny because I grew so much when I left and then I came back to Host and I was like, oh my God, I fit in here.

Yeah. I think there's, when you're in the summer and you're trying to think of ideas and you're just really doing anything to get a head start. That's, that's kind of terrifying. Do you have a writer? I think, I think Punky, we just talked to Punky and she said she had a writer or she was

great, or she was assigned a writer or maybe, or just one kind of gravitated. Do you have someone they let you bring on or you just work with everybody? I think I tend to work with everybody. I was working with Sudi Green, who I went to college with and she got hired for, she was like the first person in our little like coterie

of like comedians doing sketch at UCB, like mid 2010s. She kind of got like raptured up into that spaceship first and we were like, oh my God, like someone made it. And then she kind of shepherded my like little lamb ass for the first season at SNL. And then she ended up working with Maya and Marty a lot. And then she helped Maya with her Kamala. And so I think she'll be back for the fall

when Maya's back. And then, so it was Sudie Green and then she left. And then there was a writer, Celeste Yim, who also works with Sarah, but they were gonna leave. But I try to sort of like, my goal every season is just to like see, like Kat, I don't know, just throw a wide blanket on everybody.

Sure, you want everybody to write something. You wanna be available for every idea, any, anything. Exactly. Yeah, and I think, oh, this is just something I think you might find flattering or interesting, it was for us. So we first started this, Tina Fey was like our fourth guest. Oh, I heard that. So we got to discussing SNL and comedy. Yeah. And then she just said, have you seen Bowen Yang do the Titanic iceberg? She just said,

I'm not saying it is eloquent, like she did. She said it's something new. It's an angle that's just different. And I thought that was cool. I hadn't met you at that point. I thought, what an interesting thing to say, but it was, I don't know, how do you describe that coming about? Cause that kind of, that landed hard. Yeah.

And I, no one expected it to, but it was this thing that we did at read through, and it kind of just happened and people were like, oh, that was cute. But it was this idea that Anna Dresden, who used to work there, was the head writer there for a season had where we were just on a hiatus. And she was like, maybe in April for the anniversary of the Titanic's thinking, you come on as the iceberg and you just want to promote your album. And I was like, oh,

that's funny, but what would that look like? I don't know. Like, what's the attitude, blah, blah, blah. But then April rolled around. So a couple months had passed. And then I was like, hey, were you still thinking about that Titanic idea? I think that's, I still don't quite know what it is, but I think it's like, I was like, it sounds really funny. So let's like, just like put clay on the table and like get to the bottom of it is. And then

it sticks with you. It's also a good idea because you're like, I was just thinking about it. Yeah. Maybe that maybe that's like one little secret, right? It's like, if like if the idea is still, if it's still sticky in a couple months, then it's probably worthwhile in some way. Like anything in life, you think of something later, you think of it again and you're like, that was kind of funny. Even though you don't have and crack the code yet, you're like, there's definitely something there. There's something there.

I think that you had to see it. Like once the thing was on your head and the whole thing. there's definitely something there. There's something there. I think that you had to see it. Yeah, seeing is a choice. The thing was on your head and the whole thing, and then there's no wink or tiny nod to that. You just are the iceberg. And how did you get there? Why aren't you freezing?

Why are you on Saturday Night Live? I mean, I would say if you can get to five questions for a sketch, then you're in this magic area. Wow. That has a lot of questions. Yeah. Wait, have you guys talked about this, this five questions thing?

I think so. Dana's been holding it. I love it. Yeah, Dana, what the heck? I love that. How did he get there? What is the iceberg? Why is it, yeah. What is he on?

Why is it on update? Is it on another sketch? So the cast know the iceberg's there. I don't know. It's something that hit me at one point. I don't know if it's that profound, but it is fun to think of sketches that really crush. Does it have five questions?

Wait, I'm writing this down. I'm writing this down analog. I'm not even typing it, everybody. I'm picking up a pencil and I'm writing it. That's hip. Five questions. That's hip. No, and then, so we did it at a table read. It was fine.

It was kind of in the mix throughout the week. And then I forget what it was. Like Pete might've, like there might've been questions about like whether or not Pete was gonna come back that week cause he was kind of like dipping in and out because you know, that was his want. And so it was Pete. And I think there was just a question mark on what the lineup was gonna be for the show.

And then Friday night at midnight, we get the call from one of the producers. We get the text from one of the producers after the meeting with Lauren on Friday night. They were like, okay, I think Bowen's update is a go. And then at that point, Anna and I were like texting each other pictures of like kids in Halloween costumes from 1998,

like dressed up as the Titanic and dressed up as the iceberg. We were like, maybe it's this, maybe it should be like, a dinner jacket. No, maybe it should be like, a white leather jacket instead. And then we'd like, lean in on dinner jackets to have these like, jewels on them. And so it all came together over the course of, I don't know, less than 24 hours.

When can you tell wardrobe? When's the latest you could tell? I think the worst I've done is day of, but not before meal break. Meal break? So like, like four, like four or five PM. Oh my God. But it's like, you know, like the ask has to be reasonable.

It can't be like, can we get like a whole like costume. I wanna come in. Do you have an ice cream costume on you that's actually super funny, not just a regular one? Exactly. But it was, yeah, Friday night at midnight. And then, God, we went in like typical update length, page length right now is like seven pages

to clock in like three and a half minutes. We wrote 11 pages and the entire, we were just, it was so indulgent and like masturbatory. We were just like, this is never gonna make it on TV. This is so crazy. Like what? We were like, we were just laughing at each other in this office next to script on nine, like right across from Lauren's office.

And we were like, it felt delirious. It felt very fever dreamy. We were like, this is never going to go. Like if it works minute one, that's what you want. We were talking about this one joke. They get it. You push out, they start it, you push out, they start laughing as you look funny.

Then they get the idea and then they're on board. But if they're not, that's a long 11 pages. I know. I think also, I remember he was defensive, the character didn't wanna really talk about the Titanic, was kind of angry, how do you think I felt and all that, and then wants to promote his electro pop band. So those things were kind of angry. How do you think I felt and all that? And then wants to promote his electro pop band. So those things were kind of inspired, you know,

cause it could have gone different angles there. Well, that was all pulled from when Paris Hilton went on Letterman right after she got arrested. And all Letterman wanted to ask her about was her getting arrested. And all she wanted to talk about was her perfume line. And so we were just like... Oh, that's a great... That's a good analogy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it. That was it. That was it. That was it. Like, we just like... Anna was like, what? Like, what can we... What is this scan on? What does this map onto? And I was like, I think...

Like, my favorite Letterman interview ever is him talking to Paris Hilton. And so, like, let's like just not drag and drop, but it was just, it was, it was a nice one. So that, that, that's the whole story. You know, uh, that instant confidence boost you get from an outfit that makes you feel good. This is true. That's what you get with Stitch Fix. Like when I nail it every month or two, I get one thing right.

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You know the flies from Fly on the Wall. If you love football, I know I do. You know it's not just about watching the game. Obviously it's about betting on it. And if you want to cash in, you need to be listening to Cash the Ticket. Cash the Ticket, that's it. Cash the Ticket on their podcast, Cash the Ticket. Mike Valente and Jim Costa break down every college football and NFL matchup like it's a game-winning play. Okay, so you watch them and then they give you some advice from the best bets to sneaky underdogs.

They give you the real analysis you need to make smart plays. And if you want the edge on game day, follow Cash to Ticket in the free Odyssey app or wherever you get podcasts. That's right. Hut one, hut two, you know what to do. I have a question for both of you. Because I came in as a full cast member, you guys came in and feature writers and is there an advantage and or a disadvantage because you're seeing the show, you're seeing the

cast members do their thing, you're kind of being acclimated to the idea of it. And then I do want to know how it came about. Was it always pretty obvious that your goal was to be a cast member and it was almost like a nod, you do one year, you write, you find your lane and then you play like a fucking ass iceberg on Updating. Really, Lord? Spilling anything? He's fan golly.

David? I'll let Bowen answer this one. Bowen, you're first. What do you mean? Oh, okay. I would love to hear David's answer. I'll let Bowen answer this one. Bowen, you're first. What do you mean? Oh, okay. I would love to hear David's answer. I'll do it. My answer is very, well, it's 22 minutes long.

Here it is. I was born in Arizona. Oop, back too far. Oh, boy, here we go again. I'm just going to take a little break. Sandler, when I tell him a story, he goes back too far, speed it up. So anyway, I basically was a writer performing with Schneider,

but they didn't, they said, don't write yourself in. They said, for sure don't. We got so many people. I didn't want to be a writer. I didn't know how to be a writer. So write yourself in maybe a line or two here when they have punky kids. And then they would, if you had too much,

they would pull you out. Yeah. They'd say that's five lines. Give that to Mike Myers. And I'm like, ah, fuck. So you do that. Shaw. It's just so hard to write for myself already.

And then write for someone else and writing a sketch. So it did take a long time to learn that stuff. And then, uh, and then we came back for the next year and Schneider put himself in copy machine. And I was flabbergasted. I'm like, you're breaking all the rules. And then it got on and I was like, wait, um, no one said it was fair.

And I was like, oh, it's not fair. You took it out of my mouth. I was about to say that. So it's okay because I think that technicality I learned was it was something that they said, if you do it the best, you can write it for yourself. But if it's just a funny idea for a sketch, give it away. So Rob did that well, yeah. Well, that's funny though, because I feel like it,

you're lucky if you have someone like Rob there to show you that like, you can just break the rules and if you do it well enough, no one's gonna say anything or no one's gonna take issue with it. Right, that's what happened. I was like, what are you doing, dude? But he was very like, fuck that shit. He would always write himself in and make them take on.

Adam wrote himself in so fast. And I was like, this is the way we do it here because I was brainwashed. But, and when it worked, I'm like, well, what am I doing? But they had a hookier stuff. So it was harder for me. So, but I could see it like Adam's stuff was so a little nutty, a little left to center.

And it was really him. And I'm like, shit, I am not really like that. I'm more dry jokes and whatever the fuck I do. So it took a more, it took longer to get a foothold, but it was, they kind of skip some of the rules and it worked out. Yeah. And I have to true confessions. Remember you came to my office that one night, you were a feature writer.

And I said, first thing you'd never do is write yourself into a sketch. And I regret that. Well, it's true though. My point is that my other point is that we all had seen you, we knew you were funny, me and Dennis and Kevin, and we knew you and Schneider were standups, we'd seen you kill at clubs. So when I saw Schneider out there doing the copy machine,

yeah, that's something Rob would do. Yeah. Bowen? Yeah, I screen tested four times by the time Lauren was like... They saw you at UCB. Oh, really? Yeah. Is that where they saw you?

In New York? In New York. It was New York. I sent in a tape on Alarq. I was like, they're never going to hire an effeminate Asian guy. Why would they? There's no need for that. Let me think the way

Lauren Michaels thinks, like, not going to. They have so many. They've got Leo there. Um, I was just like, this is just never going to happen. So I'm just going to have fun with it. And then, uh, tape was kind of, was, went, went, just cleared each stage, stage game.

So I did like the UCB showcase and then, um, did just clear to each stage game. So I did like the UCB showcase and then did screen test callback one year. Then they, and Lauren just decided to throw another round of screen tests in March of the following season. And then holding deal until August. And then that was the fourth time. And so holding deal.

So yeah, that was like, it was the first time I was on one. Like it felt so special. Holding deal. For people at yeah, that was like, it was the first time I was on one, like it felt so special. Holding deal. For people at home, that means what? You get paid to do nothing until they decide. Little bit of money and you're might be on television. Wet the beak. Wet the beak.

It was like, it was peanuts. And like, but at the time it just, But it's from SNL, it's a big deal. Right, right, right. It's $78 a month, but if you stretch it, it'll last. Sorry. And the movie pass. It's from my personal checkbook.

And did you have a breakthrough, one live with everyone? Did you have to do that thing or was you just gradually all of a sudden they called you and said, you're a writer? No, it was, so after the tape, it was the live thing at UCB. So they just did like a live showcase with a bunch of people.

Okay. And then, from then on, it was just screen tests. And then I remember my first meeting with Lorne, I fucked it up. Cause the first thing I said was, I also grew up in Canada and I can speak French. Like that was, and he saw through that immediately and was like, who is this?

Yeah, totally. Uh-huh. How did you dig yourself out of that hole? I did it. I stayed in the hole. I stayed in the hole and then thought I was done. Then the second meeting, he was in LA. It's always so crazy. It's never normal situations. It's never normal situations.

It's never normal. No, he was at the Beverly Hills Hotel because he was doing the Emmys that year because Cheyenne and Colin were hosting. And so. And room 31, it's a suite. I always get that. That's his hotel.

He's a creature. Of course. Yeah, I wanna go for a walk. Uh-huh's his hotel. He's a creature. I have it. Of course. Yeah. Want to go for a walk? Uh-huh. He loves his walk in Beverly Hills. We're revealing secrets. I took a walk. I'm like, Jesus, I thought we were lost.

I go, Lauren, where's the Beverly Hills hotel? We walked and walked. I'm like, I thought this is a cute little jaunt, but it was honestly, it's exactly five miles. I'm like, no, this is, I have to prep a lunch. He was getting his 10,000 steps. I had a long hike with him with a bunch of people on Long Island.

And eventually at one point, I believe he did say, oh, trees are violent. Think about it, Dana. Root systems and there's this aggression. It's a bioevolutionary thing. Look into it, please. And I need another hit fucking character. No, I think Dana's got the most like tamper perfect

Lauren impression, I think. It's so good. Sorry to everybody else. I love Bill Hader's, I love different incarnations of them. Bill's is very laid back and sort of right here. But so you get hired, I was curious just for a second at UCB when they would do showcase,

were you kind of, did you knew you had something, were you killing it eventually on stage at UCB pre-SNL? We were doing like- I mean, I'm assuming you were doing- Yeah, we were doing like monthly shows. We had like a monthly sketch show there. Like they called them Spanx and then it turned into like a monthly show. And so it was like a half hour little sketch thing.

And we were doing stuff at the pit. And I was doing, like I went to school in the city and met a lot of like cohort people there. And it was nice. And like I loved that. Did you audition with anyone that made it all the way? Did I audition with anyone that made it all the way? So my, the first year I auditioned was the same year as Heidi and Chris Redd and Luke Knoll. So they were people.

And then Andrew Dismukes was also that year. And he got hired as a writer first as well. Then the next year I came on to write for just one season. And then when Lauren called me to like give me cast, he was like, this was the plan all along. I had to let you cook. And if I threw you out there without a paddle, it would have been irresponsible because there's going to be a lot of eyes on you.

And I was like, okay, great. I mean, it was a really stressful year eyes on you. And I was like, okay, great. But I mean, I, I, it was a really stressful year cause I, I like David was like, I don't identify as a writer. I don't know how to write for myself or other people, let alone. Um, but then I'm, but I'm glad I had that time though, that gestation.

Cause like, I would have, like I saw how the sausage got made, you know, and like it kind of demystified it. So. I literally only figured out how sausage was made, but not how to write a sketch. But you know, also, I don't think you have like, I wrote a sketch about how sausage is made. Write it up, Dana. We had three episodes. But when you see these other guys go buy you on a rocket ship, that's the

hard part. On my own, I could just sit there and learn like school. But every two weeks, someone else is getting hired and then on the show I'm like, wait, and then the, the insult was I think after two years, he was like, we're going to keep you on as another feature player. I'm like, I'm the only one left. Am I just, I'm not in full cast.

So that was humiliation. But like, again, I walked out, when it all is said and done, it feels like I was on there and did what I should do, but it was never when I was there, I never walked away going, nailed it. I was like fucking walking with like a limp going, I don't know what happened. It's just hindsight.

It only comes in, yeah. I mean, do we think that that's like character building or do we think that that's traumatic? Both. It's been trauma since, yeah. I mean, I feel like it was really tough. Yeah, but I got a lot out of it. I think it depends.

I mean, some people you don't hear from again and that's just how it works. That's probably what happens. And so you leave there. I remember one time we were doing movies and I said, I think I want to leave. And they go, where are you going to go? I was like, you leave SNL, then what happens? I'm like, you'd already done Tommy boy, which was a smash.

I was like, I don't want to leave because I'm getting more stuff. And they go, but that stuff dries up if you leave. Cause I didn't have time to do it all. And I was like, never quite got that. And then later you go, oh, if you work, you usually get more work and I, but that didn't make any sense. And then it did later, but I was like, I would just say it, it puts armor on you.

You'll never be in another thing like this live unprepared, it's in the cards, all the nonsense, all your relatives watching. They're not using you so much this week, eh? You know? Um, so you get resilient. I mean, um, you are coming out in a huge movie. I don't want to jump ahead cause they have some sketches I want to get to.

Yeah. Um, wicked, wicked. Um, and so that, and then SNL, I mean, it's a little bit of a, and then your podcast is huge. I mean, it's right in the top 20 out of 4 million. So there's a lot of success happening to you right now. And I had a phase like that with Wayne's World and so forth and so on. So what are you, I am a licensed therapist, but how are you feeling? You're in your sixth season as a cast member or going into your sixth season as a cast member?

Going into sixth, going into sixth, yeah. And how do I feel? Just for the audience, I think three or four Emmy nominations, like stacked in a row. Yeah, sure. It wasn't, it's not, it wasn't, I didn't do the Dana thing of consecutive, but yes. Is that what Dana did?

Dana, I think Dana has like five consecutive and consecutive years. Six, Jesus. Pretty cool. Six! Oh boy. And then seven for the win. Yes.

We'll get this online for people listening. It'll be, no, but- Go to a side chat for that. I'm just, I'm going around on my head because I'm watching your stuff and it's like, as you know, Lorne loves people. Well, he loves comedians, basically. He loves us. He loves funny people. He also loves funny people who can go and score and make the audience really happy consistently. And that's where you are. I mean, I've watched all yourself. It's like you're landing constantly on that show.

My hit rate is average. I like there's some duds, of course. All right. I'm also on a churny. Yeah. The doctor sketch with Ryan Gosling. Oh God, stop, stop, stop, stop. Boang Yang is straight with Sydney Sweeney.

Oh, yeah. George Santos on update in the cold opening. Just things that are kind of killer viral stuff. Now I'm gonna let you talk. It doesn't feel like, you're asking me how it feels? Like, someone asked. Surreal. Well, it was, sure, totally surreal,

but someone asked, and I'm not comparing myself to Cher or anything, but someone asked Cher recently, like, what does it feel like to be an icon? And she goes, it doesn sure, totally surreal, but someone asked, and I'm not comparing myself to Cher or anything, but someone asked Cher recently, like, what does it feel like to be an icon? And she goes, it doesn't feel like anything. Like, don't you guys agree? Like when someone's like, what did it feel like? Or what does it feel like to have been on SNL? And I'm like, I don't know.

It feels like, it doesn't feel like anything, right? That's a cop out. Most of the time people in life, unless you're on a chain gang or building things, most of us just hang out most of our lives. Even at SNL you're hanging out, then in between shows you're hanging out, right now we're hanging out, which is a miracle. And so, yeah, I remember the first time I got recognized and my wife said, you're famous. It really shocked her. And then it made her see other famous people as just people. So yeah, we've been behind the curtain. So we kind of understand. Right.

You know, you know. But it's, but that, but that, that still feels like a mystifying thing to you. Like if you, if you see someone else go through it, is that, is that fair to say? I, I relate to it. I'm interested in it when I watch, because I can get Saturday Night Live, which is great on Peacock at 8 30 on the West Coast. So I'm watching it live a lot more. I get the YouTube clips. So it's kind of fun. And I watch, you know, I noticed cast members getting confidence, a sketch they're breaking through. You know, I noticed cast members getting confidence, a sketch they're breaking through.

Saturday Night Live is unintentionally, I think, unless Lorne is more brilliant than people give him credit for, that it's a reality show. You take unknowns, you put them on this show and see how they go, or you take a football player, hey, maybe that guy can do sketch comedy. So the show is always entertaining and interesting

to me because I'm kind of watching it from this other perspective. And I think like I get caught up in the meta-narrative sometimes, especially now. I'm like, oh, like there's like, I'll get rubbed into like a headline or like into like some pickup every now and then. I'm like, Oh, God, this is so unfair. This is so stressful. This is not what I meant. Or this is not what I was doing. Like, you know, while like, Chappelle was standing on stage with me. But it's like, but it ends up, I think, Warren understands that it ends up being this thing that, like, is what the show is, which is like, the way that like, people's emotions are on display for this and the way that like the culture changes or the pendulum swings one way and then back the other.

And, you know, I think like it's all, I think Lauren has an awareness of it. I think Lauren knows that it's a reality show. Totally. Well, Steve Higgins said that he, he wrote the constitution basically, and it's a liquid, you know, it changes with the passage. I come from the analog era, I mean, you know,

basically landlines and fact machines. And no- I think Warren likes pickup. Yeah, Warren likes pickup. Warren would like pickup. You make some noise, you're coming back. I think that's what he wants. He just doesn't want anybody flatlining.

And if they are, I remember, by the way, just to go back, I just saw the Sydney Sweeney one. I like when Heidi at the beginning casually goes, he just plays gay as a shortcut to jokes. Shortcut to laughs. I was like, oh my. Shortcut to laughs. Shortcut to laughs.

And then there was a couple of other burns. It was pretty funny, but that was a good one. She was great in that burns. It was pretty funny, but that was a good one. She was great in that too. She was great. She's such, she seems like what I score. I think Kim Kardashian did a nice job, sort of surprisingly. I don't think Sydney is a surprise that she was good,

but it's just good when people, everything kind of falls in the right way on a show, because it can go the other way so easily. Totally. I think she's an example of a host who came in in the right way on a show because it can go the other way so easily. Totally. I think she's an example of a host who came in and understood how she was being consumed and perceived already.

Like she came in, she was like, please everyone make jokes about my boobs. Like she was practically begging everybody to write. Say no more. Say no more. Like, and then she, like, went down, went down to her dressing room on Thursday right before the tape.

I was like, just so you know, like, we're getting an intimacy coordinator, and if you're at any point uncomfortable, you know, you can tap out. Like, if, you know, if we make out and you hate it, no problem, we can cut it. And she goes, Bowen, I'm on euphoria. But then she also said,

But then she also said, but then she also said, she goes, you're living every gay man's dream by like having sex with me. And I'm like, how do you know that? Like she knows that like, she is so, she's so raw sexual power that like anyone would be thrilled to like simulate sex with her.

It's so crazy. Were there hosts like that when you guys were there? Where like, it was just like some like, just a stunner. I had crushes on hosts for sure. Sometimes you see someone that's really like an actress that's great and they come on. And then like anything in the world,

their personality or their talent during the week just shoots them even higher. You're like, oh my God, they're either super cool or they roll with anything or they're just good in the sketches or nice everybody. And then you're like, it goes up or some people they can lose points. Of course. I think Sweeney seems like a good one and Dana worked with a lot of, a lot of great people too.

Yeah. This goes back, it was Dolly Parton, Phil and John are talking to Dolly. And she's got a little cut to the thing, whole thing. And she goes, all right, well, I'm going to look away so you boys can look, let's get it over with. Her monologue was great because Cameron just kept going over to her cleavage. That was a great monologue. Yeah. She had a sense of humor about the whole thing. And when you talk to her, she's really just kind of this brilliant songwriter. I mean, she created Dolly Parton.

Yeah. But, you know, the theme to Bodyguard, I shall always... Was Britney Spears the one that had the boob monologue where her boobs were moving? The moving tits, yeah. That was really good. What a great, easy idea. Not easy idea, just a good idea that worked. Yeah, but she had to buy into it. Oh yeah, you were about to tell us the host that was mean to everyone. Yeah, I'll tell you guys off, Mike.

You're trying to, trying to turn. We were going to be on, Mike. No, but this was- We got in trouble for saying Stephen Zagall wasn't. I mean, we all, everyone gets in trouble for saying something. But that's what everyone asks. And then you can only dodge it for so long and you just try to explain why they weren't great. I heard Paris Hilton was not great,

but that was after I left. And then you go, why, or be, I've heard so many people, but some it just doesn't work out and some are fighting it. And there's a reason, but it's scary, but scary place. It could be some people deal with stress by lashing out.

Yeah. I've seen that and being kind of overly angry and it's all just anxiety and fear. You know, it was just anxiety and fear, you know? It was just, I think the layer on my little quote, my little poll, which by the way, I was like, it was like on Andy Cohen show and they play this game and so like, It's a game called get pickup. It's a game called stay on another season or.

But you didn't say the name of the person. So I felt it was pretty benign when I watched it. Just saying there was this one. But then at the game of, because of all the. I think it was the game. And I think it was me saying that this person made multiple cast members cry. And I think that is more about, that is more about the environment of the place.

Well, that's like Wednesday, like, like imagine like you stay up till 4 a.m. writing a sketch and then the host is like, I fucking hate this. Like you're gonna have some, your nerves are frayed, you're gonna have some weird bizarre emotional response. I'm not saying I was the one who cried. You're exhausted, you're emotionally spent.

I get it, I mean, with that Andy Cohen show. Did Lorne tear up at all? Did Lorne get lotion? Corn. Fade in on Bowen, He's dressed as a Irish potato. Update could use a potato. An Irish potato. I don't know. I don't know where I was going. But some of those shows, like Andy Cohen's, I'm saying is that the questions are like, whatever you answer is going out there because totally

who did you hate the most and you're right the most it's like who's the funniest then it's like click here to hear who is the funniest no totally set it up for horrible um but you gossip you survived gossip is in our dna i mean the homo sapiens from 200,000 years ago, goss, excuse me, the gay sapiens. Yeah. By the way, I mean, in the gay community, cause you're the first person to really have so many sketches around someone being gay.

I mean, the gay Oompa Loompa is especially hysterical. Oh, thanks. I mean, are you Oompa Loompa is especially hysterical. Oh, thanks. I mean, are you embraced? Are you iconic? Or are you ridiculed? How does it go over? I think there's a healthy, I think, I think a gay audience is always going to be a little leery and they're always going to be like, well, I could have done it better. You know, like there's, I think, but I think it's healthy. I think it's like a fun, like I can't get to-

I think so too. Just like us. I think, yeah, I mean, it's just, I was told- They're jealous. Yeah. The closest I got was from San Francisco on the stand-up scene, had gay friends, and they said the church lady would play at the gay bars.

Of course. In San Francisco, they would play the sketches. And I go, I just thought it was flattering. I thought it was, you know. Oh my God, no, church lady is very gay, gay iconic. And then, and David, I will say, I think, I think, no, and this is not something SNL related, honestly. Go ahead.

I think Just Shoot Me is like very queer canon. What is it? Queer canon. Just Shoot Me is queer canon. I think like there's something about like you and like Wendy Malek and like Laura San, what's her name, Laura San Giacomo. Yeah. Like I think like there's something like it's like,

it was like the first sitcom that was like at a magazine. And so I think gay people of a certain generation. A model magazine. A model magazine. So it was all that world. And then, yeah. And then that was honestly how I first discovered David. I was like, it was before I was aware of what SNL,

the history of SNL was. Right. I was like, I just moved to the States. I started watching TV all the time. From Australia? Oh my God. From Canada, it was Australia, then Canada, then just moved to the States. I started watching TV all the time. From Australia? From Canada, it was Australia, then Canada, then the States. You know what's funny, Roman, is that

for a model magazine, there was no gay person on the show. Sure, sure. Yes, it was me, I don't know. I mean, is that what you're telling me? I thought your character was gay. The whole time you were like, the gay Finch was our favorite. I'm like, that's me.

Oh my God, thanks. Yeah, I don't know, maybe. But I loved Wendy on that show. She was so, I mean, I had a blast with everybody and I thought Wendy, every read through was so funny as Nina. It's fantastic. Such a blast.

That was a lucky break of leaving SNL and doing something else. I was just gonna say. That next move is terrifying. I was going to say, I feel like you landed really on a nice sort of pattern. Yeah, I was just lucky, you know, that the way this business is, it's, you think you're good, bad, but if you are in the right place and you get on the right show and there's writers and a network loves it and all those people are good around me. It just really, really helps.

And then you just try to tread water for the rest of your fucking life. But I will say it's easier, Bone. It is. Well, this is how I feel. You guys were asking me how I feel going into my sixth season. Like I completely, completely abide by this thing that it is just luck.

Like if I was, and I think even Tina mentioned this like on her episode where she was like, this would never have flown, like the iceberg would have never been on the show like even 10 years before. Like I got very, very lucky. I feel like it's like, I feel like the Mars Rover landing on that square inch

of Martian soil that they have to land it at that exact spot on land. Like that's me. Like I couldn't have, I could not have been any kind of even like, yeah, I just couldn't have made it to the show period had it not been for like a very specific set of alignments, you know? A lot of fluky things. I mean, I auditioned twice as a standup and it wasn't for Lauren, but for the, and you know, pass, pass, you know? Yep. Yep. And then going back to your Sharon, the night that I, I was in a club and Rosie

O'Donnell was playing there, I had not met her and I said, I think I have a, Lauren Michaels is going to come see me at this little club on the west side of LA. And so she agreed and we flipped the coin and we both got to see it. And what happened was, I'm nervous as hell, Lauren comes on the head of the network and then Cher. So I just, when you said Cher, I go, oh, Cher. And when I run into Cher, very rarely she'll go, I was there the night. That's incredible. shoe go, I was there the night you, you know. That's incredible. Oh, sir.

I just, I just. David's got a share. Every, I've never tried to do share. Do you believe I'm 74? You should do share. I would love to do share. I've got a good share impression. I bet you do.

Can we give it five seconds of share? Sure. If I want to put tits on my back, that's nobody's business but mine. I bet you do. Can we give it five seconds of share? Sure. If I want to put tits on my back, that's nobody's business but mine. Pretty good. What is that here on Mike Douglas? A lot of people just go half breed. They did the limp half breed and that's it.

You know, boom. They go too low. They go too like snap out of it, but she was never that low. She's got a pretty high like literal pitch. She pitches her voice out pretty high. I love her. I met her when I was 11 or 12 at a theater near where I grew up in the peninsula. It was Sonny and Cher and we waited outside to get her autograph. So to your point about the kismet and

the weirdness of getting on the saddle or any of this happening. I happened to be in the right place at the right time over and over again. And then, you know, like Mike Myers said, uh, cha, would you like to play Garth? Well, okay. What is it? You know, and then it goes to that. So I agree. But, um, you know, there's one sketch that I, the year, the year look who the, the design of your look really stood out for me as instantly funny. And that was the doctor sketch with Ryan Gosling. Oh, yeah.

You had this white suit, long straight black hair. It was such a cleverly written sketch. And then just about, first of all, nothing went wrong. You're talking to the relatives, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Ryan Gosling comes out. I mean, that whole show, I have to say, just did exude joy for whatever reason. It had the Beavis and Budhead and, you know,

something about Ryan Gosling on that show. He's a star. Just, yeah. And someone who like, you know, every time like there's like, anytime like an actor would come on, like a serious actor would come on, like they would just, like they just ask not necessarily the right questions. They'd be like, what's like, where is he coming from?

What's his motivation? You're like, it's just, just say the line, read the card. Um, but he, he, I think he, at that point, that was like his fourth time hosting. He was asking those same questions, but for some reason, like, there was an endearing quality to it, and I think he really was.

That's his way of, maybe that's some people's way of just finding the comedy of it. Like, it's just their process. It's not a comedian's process at all, but it's like an Oscar-nominated actor's process, for sure. Like, you know, that's something that's working. What is your pro, because we were writing pen and paper a lot of the time.

I mean, we, the cast back in the early days. Sometimes I would write a sketch, I would just put a check mark for either something funny or an actual laugh. And I would try to- In read through. Well, if in read through or even ahead of time and afterwards, like, okay, there's a gap here.

Hmm. What, what can I put? Maybe a funny physical move or what's your methodology? You do. And I sat with a lot of writers as well. Yeah. But I liked, I was a standup. I love working with writers and bouncing, you know, love that process.

So you probably, are you, are you riffing with some of these writers in the room? Yeah. That ends up being the best method. There's always someone like on keys, just like typing everything everyone's saying. And then we just... Oh really?

And then what I've started to do or what I learned from Sudi was, you would just type out everything everyone would say in a big old document and then you'd print out, there's something important about printing it out and holding it in your hands. And then circling it and then you would have your selects and circle the jokes that would, yeah, yeah.

It's a very tactile process. It works and then it's just a matter of rearranging them and then filling in with connective tissue. And cutting out the fat. Yep. And then you get it tighter and then you cut out more fat. Yep. And then it's, I need this line, I need this, we need this.

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would do the check mark thing that Jay Davis had it read through, like you do a sketch and it's read through and you're hitting what worked. Yeah. And then you look after, if it didn't get picked, you go, well, I only had three check marks on eight pages.

That's it. I think Higgins even like told us one time, like what you do is you set up the thread, you yank at it, loosen, yank again, harder, bring in another thread, cut both threads, pull one again. It was just such a, that is, I don't know, that's such a complicated way of doing it, but I mean, it's a nice framework, I guess.

Yeah, some of that more colorful vernacular would be like, just, well, we beat the shit out of it. Yeah. We took the idea and we just went beat the fuck out of it. You know, just like, how about this? How about this? How about that? But what is the, what's the easiest one that you've had that was a big score

that just sort of came together really fast? You know, some of them just sort of fall together and others are just, are really. You know, some of them just sort of fall together and others are just, um, George Santos. George was fun. That was mostly, that was mostly Jost. I mean, the weekend update one was me and Alison Gates and Ken Siblett, but, um, Jost would do the cold opens and the candle in the wind thing was Jost. Um, but there's one called Sarah Lee with Harry Styles where... Yes, I saw that.

That was me and Julio, and that was just the two of us. It's kind of a one, like a one and done straight line pass, and that was it. And basically that went to TV, and that was another thing where we were like, I can't believe this is going on air. Like, I can't believe. And that makes another thing where we were like, I can't believe this is going on air. Like, I can't believe... And that makes you go every now and then like, oh, like, Lauren does just kind of get when to like...

He understands when something is just ready to be out there, even though you as the person who wrote it might not agree with him. Even though you as the person who wrote it, even you have doubts about whether or not this is meant for a wider audience than the people internal at SNL. Lauren is like, no, like America's ready to see this, you know, which is crazy. Yeah.

Can you imagine, you know, oh, sorry, go ahead, David. So you just sometimes Monday meetings, you pitch something and he goes, this is the week. Or he'll say, it's not ready yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he goes, that feels like two weeks from now. And then he goes, this is the week. And then this is when we need it.

And it's usually right when it's supposed to be. I know. It's pretty amazing how, yeah, he's right. I think he's downloaded. I mean, Lauren is almost like a human AI when it comes to that show, because a half century of downloading everything, what will kind of work, instincts around it in that room, all filtered through his gigantic brain. He's incredibly right.

And then, yeah, it's all intuitive at this point. I mean, it's just like, because he's never sweating. Well, right before air shows when Lorne is really the most the most ham tough We'll lose the wig We'll play that after update can be the wine glass is could it be a little shorter? All right You know, I mean you couldn't there's never been a camera on that meeting has there like is anyone ever just taking a video put that picking the show at like 1045 that's on live to the world at 1130. I think they finally did put a camera in the room. So they're releasing all these,

no, because they're releasing all these documentaries. Oh, that's right. There's five documentaries. Are you in any of the documentaries? I don't think so. I think they just sat me down and just talked about it. I think so there's one, I don't know what they're like, but each one is about a different aspect.

And like one's about Lorne, one's about the musical guest, one's about like the priest. Jesus. It's like- One's about cowbell, the sketch called cowbell. One's about cowbell, yes. There's a whole documentary on it. Yeah.

Yeah. Incredible. So I'm just excited to see how they cut it together. I have no idea. One time Lorne grabbed me by the cue cards and he went, I'm scared. And then I go, he goes, no one will believe you. And then he walked away. By the way, Bowen, while I'm waiting for this idiot, um, when I do stand up, I do, I try a joke out or I put it on a voice note, just off top my head.

Yep. Yep. Get it typed up, Heather helps me with that. And then I go through and underline what I need. It's exact same thing. So funny you said that. It's great. And then I do it at a club, tape it and then go, what, cause I try to memorize it.

I go, what did I miss? Tighten and brighten. And then you go, this is, this is what I, this is what works, this part. What you need. Go ahead. Well, no, I just, you know, I kind what works, this part. What you need. Go ahead, Dan. Well, no, I just, you know, I kind of do my own sort of research. So this is from you, I don't know, someone.

Oh shit. Oh no. You just said, and I understood what you were talking about. It's not, it's not. Is this the cringe-worthy thing? Yeah. Yeah, okay, so I was stoned off my gourd last month on my podcast. That's what I thought. Yes. No, I'm kidding, no. You was stoned off my gourd last month on my podcast.

That's what I thought. Yes. No, I'm kidding, no. You were stoned, really? Well, yeah, yeah. No, but we were just, I was, my friend Matt and I were just talking about this concept of pushing past a feeling of cringiness,

pushing past this feeling of embarrassment or humiliation or shame. RuPaul has this thing, your fear of looking stupid is holding you back. And he says this to so many of the drag queens on thePaul has this thing like, your fear of looking stupid is holding you back. And he like says this to so many of the drag queens on the show, he's like, your fear of looking stupid is holding you back. And I'm like, that, it just applies to so many things.

And I was saying that, I was like making this larger point about how SNL is like the biggest arena for looking stupid for like trying out an idea that you think is brilliant. And it is like all week, it's this idea that has been great. And then it fucking bombs on live television and you have to like, you gotta, you gotta develop your coping mechanisms faster or else you're gonna go crazy.

Yes. So that's the context. And it bombs, it makes you, in the middle of it, you're thinking, how is this not working? What are we doing wrong? Yeah. Because everyone loved this.

Everyone loved this, but like you never know. And it's... Yeah, it's weird when it kills it, read through and vice versa. And it's the opposite live on air. And you know, we, I think Phil and I, and Victoria used to say, we're just clowns and really think of ourselves as clowns, you know, because they can get high fluid and these sophisticated comedians

who are commenting on society, you know. So, you know, put a dress on me, put a wig, put me in a big diaper. I was in a big diaper once with Matthew Broderick and the sketch bomb. We were bare chested in giant diapers with bonnets on and it played a dead silence. And then the commercial break, this is my first season.

We walked by the bleachers, we kind of trying to wave to the audience as they look away. They're like, fuck you. Yeah, you want- They're like, we hate you. It's like, if you're not, you know, I mean, do you have sketches in your head

that you feel like are too far or not ready, or that are sort of fantasy? If I could get that to work. Do you play guitar, kid? Yeah, but no, funnily enough, I've always wanted to write a yacht rock sketch or something. Musical. Musical thing. But I don't know. It's just not, that seems, that's not even like, I can see it. It's just, I feel like there's just,

I've got a million steps to that. But what you're saying is so, is so real. It's this thing of like, this is what I mean by SNL being the cringe, the most cringe-worthy place in show business. It's like, it is, you need to learn how to push past that embarrassment or else you will, you'll die, yeah. Or you'll pull your next good idea and go,

I don't know about this one. Exactly, and this is the beauty of comedy is that it's no one agrees on what funny, there's no universal definition of what funny is. And that's the amazing thing about it. There's like no one agrees. And for something to be funny, all it has to be is funny to two people. That is the smallest unit of measurement for comedy. And that's all that matters.

Like the political shit that gets attached to it doesn't really matter. Like it's just about that. And I agree with this whole clown thing. Like we're just clowns. I never want to comment on society. I just want to put on a funny costume. Number one, you want to, you want to, what they say kill. You want people to be helpless and you also want, and I'm sure you've had this people see you at an airport or whatever, man, me and my friends just went crazy for the iceberg, whatever you would get. And that's also your, that's a, that's really fun. I mean, that is very satisfying when people, you know, they've seen it multiple times and they're quoting lines.

You know, that's the best. One thing I was going to ask you, cause I'm curious for myself, like, why do I love when people, cause I'm pre-rap and hip hop. I've been exposed to it massively. When there is a sketch where people are wrapping together, it always entertains the hell out of me. Timothy Chalamet and I guess Marcello, was it the baby face one?

Yeah, yeah. And then Keenan came in and syncopated movement and it's just always is entertaining to me. I don't see it as anything other than just I'm immediately entertained, especially when you don't expect it. All of a sudden people are. Well, I'm just saying, I'm immediately entertained, especially when you don't expect it. All of a sudden people are.

Well, I'm just saying, I'm kind of curious to how there'd be people, you know, real purists a long time ago, oh, it's hack, you know, the rap being rhyming, you know, but I'm entertained every time, so that's all. I think it's just like a structure. I don't want to get too academic about it. Do you think if it works, it works? What if, shh, what if Biden did a rap? I think it's just like a structure. I don't want to get too epidemic about it.

Do you think, what if, what if, shh, what if Biden did a rap? I think people would go crazy. Yeah. Whoops. All right, let's rap. Let's rap. Bowen, you're a stud.

We got to know you. We got to know a little bit about the iceberg. We got to know everybody. I love you guys. We got to know you. We got to know a little bit about the iceberg. We got to know everybody. I love you guys. We appreciate it. Yes. Thank you. 2200 on his SAT.

He's kind of highly educated. I know, I'm just throwing this out at the very end, but I was like, damn. He taught himself Adobe Photoshop. I read that earlier. This is messed so much. He went, these are just, talk about it more. Thanks, Bowen, I know you gotta run.

Appreciate it and we'll see you at the show at some point. Whatever it is, wherever you get your podcasts. Fly on the Wall is executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Jenna Weiss Berman of Odyssey, and Heather Santoro. The show's lead producer is Greg Holtzman.