Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade - Conan O'Brien

Episode Date: January 26, 2022

SNL writers dating movie stars, doubting history books, and no need for cocaine with Conan O'Brien. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier or pay subscription starting at 1299 per month. The thing about Conan, Conan's someone who I've known, well I remember when he and Greg Daniels came in, so I've known Conan for a long time.

There's some heavy hitters writers on that show, well. Yeah. And Daniels in the office and from King of the Hell. Yeah, and Conan and these guys, you know, there's just, you meet a lot of Ivy League guys. Like you went to Arizona City College, right? Something. I went to DeVri, what was it?

DeVri, yeah. Barbara's probably, yeah. I went to San Francisco State, the Gators. It was sort of like Harvard or Yale. Almost no name. Yeah, because you get there and you're like, oh, you went to Harvard and you're dumb like me. And Conan wasn't like that.

I mean, Conan doesn't wear one thing, he's same with Kevin Neeland. Conan does not wear the fact that he's six, six on his sleeve. Like, he's, had, there's no sense of him being a big guy. Some big guys are tall guys. Yeah. Like Greg Holzman, you got to tell they're sort of caring. Yeah, they're high.

New ones are so tall too. It's embarrassing. I don't even like hanging out with tall people for real. I hate it. I was with Barkley in Arizona because Charles Barkley used to play there and we went out one day. Hey, you got Charles Bargley. It's terrible.

Terrible. Sorry, Frank. You can't handle it. And I go, it's too tall. I thought it's hilarious guy, but I can't, like I look stupid and out, I don't need it. Why don't you mean, I mean, going on the Conan O'Brien show when Conan would come out, he's standing up,

then Andy Richter would stand up. People don't realize Andy is six four. Oh, really? Conan is six. Conan is six. So I'm like, you know, I start singing the munchkins on. I mean, I haven't put those little parakeet things that I sit on top of it, because I'm really high up.

Like a bird. Oh, you do? Oh, yeah, yeah. And then I sit and I go, that's on your haunches. If you get on your haunches. Yeah, I go as high as I can and then, and I sit on Apple Box.

But yeah, Conan's gonna be great. He's a fun dude to talk to. He's easy, he knows what he's doing, he knows how to talk. Conan is obviously, he has a huge podcast. He's a great conversationalist. We have dinner with him all the time. Pre-COVID. Remember COVID?

I know. This podcast, make us COVID. Ha ha ha. Hey, that's the whole idea you go. I am so busy. It's just because of COVID, I guess I'm a pop out a little podcast game. I know you almost have to do it now. It's the sickling. You have to do it. I met a comedian about six months ago. I won't mention his name, but he didn't have a podcast. And I go, are you kidding me? You do not have a podcast

and you're in show business. You know, Fallon's going to come on by the way. Just talking Schneider, Fallon. Hey, it's going to be know, Fallon's gonna come on by the way. Just talking Schneider, Fallon. Hey, he's gonna be great. It's gonna be great. Fallon is the ultimate affidus. He's fallen is my, yeah, he's. Oh, we're not doing Fallon yet, but we're. Oh, that Conan.

Okay. Conan has produced more funny stuff than almost anyone in the history of American comedy. If you look at all the team Cocoa stuff, he kind of stayed fairly evergreen. He stayed out of the intense political polarization of comedy. So everything he does is evergreen. And my wife and son are obsessed with his travel shows. To the point.

You're set too? Yeah, it goes around the world. Oh, he went very funny. He went to the party. Yeah, and they have to be smart. I would not know what to do over there. They watch him over and over again. It's pretty cool. Well, here he is. Coney and O'Brien.

I want to welcome the two comedians, entertainers, performers that I've had dinner with the most in the last, say say seven, eight years since I relocated to LA Conan O'Brien and David Spade. Both. That's a high honor. Thank you. Yeah.

It was a lot of it was tedious. I'll be honest. I'm going to do the backpedaline that Conan does so well. I really, really like you, but you know, I've got a little boring. There were times, there were gaps in the energy. Sometimes the energy would drop and you're very restless, David. Oh, me. I thought you were going to say Dana.

No, you get up a lot. Dana's gotten a lot better. Dana, Dana used to be very hard to talk to Kevin Neelan. Used to be hard to talk to you, but I've been working on both of them and we really, I actually, for the first time about a month ago, made eye contact with Kevin Neillin. And it was a huge, it just was a, this is something I've been working on since 1988.

Yeah, I'll make that forward. David, you and I don't hang as much. No, but that's okay. Oh, nice to meet you guys together. I say nice things about you all the time, which is. Our last dinner together, I think, our last dinner was for Randos. Would that guy run something?

Rob, who else? Us three, and that was it, right? It was us three and Ted Sarandos joined us. Yes. He kept pitching me shows. I'm like Ted, I'm trying to eat. Just pass the Anammy, my God. And it ain't damn it.

He kept saying, Dana, whatever you want, he at one point held up one of those giant checks. It was already signed and he said, just fill in the amount. And Dana was like, I'm eating. Like a publisher's clearing house. Yeah, I love it. I'm Jan like a publisher's clearing house. I love it. I'm just love it.

Oh, and then we're at that dinner and we run into. Yes, we run into love it. And I love it because love it always does no matter who he's with. My favorite thing is he was once standing with this very attractive woman and I was talking to him. And in front of the woman He looked at her and then looked at me and went Jealous

Jealous is a top five. It's a top five. Love it. Yeah, he can be standing with a hobo He can be standing with a shoe Right hobo and he often is and I'll be talking I mean. Oh, hey John. How are you and he'll go? Uh, it's my friend. Uh, he's homeless and I'll say, Oh, well, that's uh, that's too bad. John, sorry for and he'll look at the friend and then look at me and go jealous. Yeah, I'm sure he's really not jealous. No, his big move is the he gets new sunglasses or as cool sunglasses and that sets you up. Nice sunglasses. They come down and that sets you up nice sunglasses. They come down

and he goes get to know me get to know me He wanted that to be his after after the liar He was desperate for a catchphrase and uh and he no he really was he really I know little catchphrase yeah one of them was he really wanted to say so you should get to know me get to know me and would say it's okay but um it was and then he had another one do you remember Dana goodbye everybody goodbye good bye everybody goodbye but that was a good one.

That was a pretty good one. The whole sketch was built around the guy saying, go buy everybody, go buy. It's really a nothing sketch just to keep getting to that. Yes, and he wanted another catchphrase because I think he saw merchandise and he wanted. He was thinking ahead and he didn't care what sketch you pitched him as long as it got

to, what's the catchphrase? Is it get to get to know me? Oh, goodbye, everybody. Goodbye. By the way, Cohen and if you've been in those reed-throughs where someone's jamming a catchphrase down your goal and it's not clicking for 13 pages and everyone's dead silent. Yeah. 13 pages and everyone's dead silent. Yeah, one of my favorite, I have lots of Saturday Night Live memories. And some are the ones that people, you know, most people think, oh my God, you were there

when you two played, you were there when, you know, iconic rock bands playing. New young, spring, new, new, new, young. And I've told this to new young, it was the best life performance I ever saw on Saturday, Saturday night live. He did it. He won Rockin' in the free world. He won Rockin' in the free world. And I've never seen anything like it. It was, he, he, it's very hard.

Lorna always used to say that TV is the worst way to experience rock music. It's just the worst. TV is the worst way to experience rockin' roll. But the worst way to experience rock and roll. But tell our musical best. The second worst way is radio. The third worst way is live in an intimate setting. No, Lauren, that's the best. And if you have a can with a string and it's to a neighbor, it's like really really bad yeah but uh... so anyway he um... he said he said uh... but that was i don't know what niel young did but he transfixed everybody it was it was great

well niel was a garage band that that that that's what i actually sent anyway oh that oh you were there for that now i what i think i was gone but i couldn't think we did have a lot of good bands i mean mean, we had Nirvana, we had Pro-Jem. Yeah, but you know, people always expect that that would be the memory that you would remember, that you would think of most. Right. Eric Clapton.

And I would think, yeah, because when you're watching them rehearse, you can stand in eight H, which, I know it looks big on TV, but it's much smaller. Right, even cooler. And when you're standing there at rehearsal I know it looks big on TV, but it's smaller and cooler. And when you're standing there at rehearsal and you're watching the greatest musicians of the 20th century perform right there, it's quite stunning, it's quite amazing, but I still think read throughs that those are the memories that are with me the most because they contain

PTSD. You know, the one you're in the bad. The good and the bad. And so if you have a sketch that's killing at read through, you're delighted, but I think they say negative impulses affect you more than positive ones. It's like gambling. Yeah. And also, yeah, exactly.

And also, we all know, you don't see the people that are laughing in the crowd. You'd notice the people that aren't laughing. And you guys have never had that, but trust me, it's no fun to have a nice memory now. Yeah, let me explain it to you. I'll draw it for you. But I'll sit in there, Conan, for 45 minutes,

say you're not reading anything. And you know it's coming summer killing summer bombing It's just very hard to control your energy and your emotions because all of a sudden Lauren does and then in walks Conan And then you got to be on well that's you back See I was not a performer. I was just a writer. So I did not some Yeah tiny things but but mostly you guys were the ones that had to be on. So what, the first thing you have to do when you're a writer and one of the things that's so nerve-wracking about read through,

you've been up for two days, you haven't had a shower, you're completely whacked out, you've written this sketch and you're desperately wanting to work. The first thing you have to do is get to the performers that are in the sketch and tell them how to do the thing you want them to do. You have to tell them, obviously I'm not gonna tell you if it's a church lady, I don't have to say booty you,

but it's fantastic. No, no, but you're close, you have to say, hey, I'm gonna be with 43 other writers that are gonna run up to you right now and say how to do their sketch. Yeah, exactly, but you also have to get to David and say, David, in this one, you're, you're, you're, you know, Cockney, you're, but you're also kind of sarcastic

or, or Dana, I've got to get to Dana and I've got to tell him really quickly, Dana, the idea in this is that you get on an elevator with sting and this is kind of how you're doing it. It's that kind of, oh, I recognize you. I'm okay. Well, how it's Harvard, then I just walk away. Exactly.

No, you were very nice. Some people were quite dismissive. Right, can I just say for a second that the time before read through, it's like Grand Central Station. People are running around. People are trying to get the scripts together. And especially with a host, Conan, you writing for a host who's got 55 things they have to read.

So you have just maybe what, 25 seconds to give them kind of a hint sometimes. Yeah. And you have to get to them and it's intimidating because sometimes they are intimidating people. It's George Steinbrenner. You know, it's a guy who fires people for a living and he's hosting the show that week and you have to run up and say, and you're a ballerina and what you do, and he just is like, get the hell out of my way. Well, the way, what about read through,

then they look at you and you're across a table shaking your head going, you blew away. Yeah, exactly. Well, that might just look down. My memories that haunt me are, if you've got a sketch that all relies on one turn of phrase, and that's the moment where everyone's gonna start laughing, and then everything else is funny because of that moment.

Right. It's like you've lined up 800 dominoes. And what happens is you hit the first one, It's it's like you've lined up 800 dominoes You hit the first one and it it falls and it hits the second one But then that one misses the third. Oh That's the sketch so you know your three pages in and someone says really because this restaurant sells octopus That's supposed to be the thing that sets. And there's no laugh. And you know that everything else is on that.

Is it going to work? You just lit the firecracker that's supposed to set off every other firecracker and every other missile. And it goes, it just ends up raising it. It raises out around. 17 pages, you kind of overrode it. 17 the words.

You look ahead and Lauren's reading the stage direction and it's silent and then it's like, you know, they all then march into the mines. They go downstairs. He repeats. This is an octopus. Oh, he puts it. Yeah, and then he starts to read faster and faster and really fast and swallow the words. Yeah, and he breaks out. and swallow the words. Yeah.

And he breaks out. Everyone in the room hates you. Everybody hates you because you've consigned them to 17 minutes of an octopus sketch and the fuse didn't light in the first page and you're screwed. I know. That's what I remember more than anything. Yeah. Well, I was lucky enough to be on the show long enough

that toward the last couple of seasons, I never wanted to peak it read through, because one time, Al Franken said to me, hey, you peaked it read through, you know, I did it all out at read through and I never got back to that. So then if you know it's on, if it's a George senior or church lay,

then you can kind of cruise into it not worry about it We'll get it there. Don't you worry? Bonnie. What Bonnie Turner will do something That reminds me of something David told me Once that I never forgot which is I was there for David's audition for Saturday Night Live and I remember that night very clearly, because I was sitting at a table with Lauren and we were watching different people come up. And apparently, David, you were told,

you were given advice by Dennis Miller, which to me sounds like terrible advice. But Dennis, just before you went on, said, just remember, you don't wanna, you don't wanna kill too hard at your audition. And I was, when I, you like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, it was spuddly because you know he was like what my favorite comic and then he was with brilstein and they helped me get on this young comedian special which marcy clients are whatever chain him. By the way I hired a truck to back up I thought it'd be funny now it's not

there's beeping. So marcy everyone's there I guess and then Dennis comes up backstage how you doing spud and I go I don't know obviously sh doing, Spud? And I go, I don't know, obviously shitting my pants. He goes, don't worry, man, you don't want to kill too hard, you know. It's red flag, some polished road hack and I go, right, so don't do good. And then he like walks away and I'm like, and they're like, and three, two. And so I go on, I'm like, am I not supposed to, you know, so I don't do that great. I think we all remember it was, what the lesson was, I think is, they're gonna look at your writing. You don't even really,

I didn't realize this for a long time until I watched comics and liked them, that I could tell if someone had game when I go, oh, I liked the way that joke is structured. I liked the words and that one. I liked whatever, and it was a little offbeat. I didn't see it coming or it was a bit of a surprise. Even if it wouldn't work, I go,

that guy's good or something. And I think that's what he meant and put it in the worst possible way, but it's like, don't kill. And I'm like, I know I want to kill. That's all you knew that would work. You do well and then you get hired. I think if someone comes in,

this may be different than killing or not killing, but completely formed. I think if things are a little fragmented and not fully formed, then Lauren and the staff, we go, you know, which piece of clay we can play with, we'll develop it, you know, as opposed to being completely locked into your thing. It gives them a place to go.

No, I see what Dennis was trying to say, but if I was going out to audition and the last thing I heard was don't kill too hard, I did see it. Exactly. Also, I always, Dennis and I subsequently, every time I bump into Dennis or talk to him, he's delightful. But back in the 80s, I think he just had that kind of cha cha way of going and paying for

70 days. Yeah, but it's almost and so he and I think for some reason, I was, I remember I was quiet at Cernet Live for a long time. I'd be funny around the writers and then when the performers would come around, I'd get real quiet or a Florence there. I'd just listen and I didn't shoot my mouth off. I was, but I remembered and for some reason, maybe, I don't know, Dennis, I just feel like there was a period of time where he just was fun.

I don't know about this, Konezy guy, you know. So I remember once, I remember at one time, I said something and we were over by the craft service table that leads into 8H where the food is and I'm standing there by the food and I'm, I don't know, I'm like, I'm 23, 24-year-old string bean and Dennis said something and I went, yeah, well, blah, blah, blah. I just said something and he took it the wrong way. He thought that I had taken, that I had distancedained some way and I'll never forget what he said he went oh

So Kone's he takes a shot at den den and I'm like what He's pretty Davis now Den You're Fasten your seatbelt gonna be a bumpy ride for cocoa in the next couple of months in your seatbelt gonna be a bumpy ride for Coco in the next couple of months with Dan on his ass and I just thought no no no no no I didn't well okay the back you know the guns have been drawn we'll see how this plays out okay

caron hey don't go out as dicky Pryor, known expect Sam Kennison. Lance, I can't land a couple and get out. And that's all it's about. Don't kill too hard, because they'll resent you. I'm going to a theater. He's always brought you a Broadway show. Deem material.

Spud, go out there and eat it. ¿Qué es el que te pasa? ¿Qué es el que te pasa? ¿Qué es el que te pasa? ¿Qué es el que te pasa? ¿Qué es el que te pasa? ¿Qué es el que te pasa? ¿Qué es el que te pasa? ¿Qué es el que te pasa? ¿Qué es el que te pasa? ¿Qué es el que te pasa? ¿Qué es el que te pasa? ¿Qué es el que te pasa?

¿Qué es el que te pasa? ¿Qué es el que te pasa? ¿Qué es el que te pasa? ¿Qué es el que te pasa? ¿Qué es el que te pasa? ¿Qué es el que te pasa? ¿Qué es el que te pasa? ¿Qué es el que?

¿Qué es el que? ¿Qué es el que? ¿Qué es el que? ¿Qué es el que? ¿Qué es el que? ¿Qué es el que? ¿Qué es el que? ¿Qué es el que? ¿Qué es el que? Now I like that I explained to the guy from Harvard, that's what I'm reduced to to this. I thought it was Yale. Conan, did you notice and read throughs like, because I went to Community College San Francisco State, and once in a while it would be a Jack Handysketch or something,

and I would mispronounce a word. And I would hear little pockets, Yale, Brown, Cornell, Harvard, just little giggles. Probably that didn't happen, but I definitely felt my lack of education. I can talk to you about the third riot or the French Revolution, and it does seem like people are highly educated,

have a bigger palette. No, I think that's in your head. I really do think that's in your head. I don't think. I have as smart as them? You never just said it to me. He never talks to me about that. How he talks to me about that a good dumb stuff so I can understand it.

That's right, well you call it the third rich. You didn't understand. I know all those things come in that I probably perceived once and didn't happen again. Well, that's the other thing too is I, if I could change one thing about, if I could change one thing it would be that nobody knew where I went to college because you guys know me. I don't think that's where my sense of humor comes from.

I think there were times when people were like, oh look, you know, Harvard guy. Christ, thanks. Christ, thanks. I agree. Harvard guy over here, and you'd think, well, okay, it's not Hogwarts, it's not a magical place, it's a school, and I met some really smart people. There I also met some pretty dumb people.

Well, I think it's because you were president of the National Lampoon. Harvard, Harvard. Harvard National Lampoon, and you were president of the National Lampoon. Harvard, Harvard National Lampoon, and you were elected two years in a row. I saw a little some notes about that. So I think it wasn't just the Harvard, it was that that embedded.

Yes, well, yeah, I would consider you wearing your intellect on your sleeve at all. No, I try to do my best to hide it. It's something. What about that sweatshirt that said, I'm the best of the best. I thought that was ironic And I think I thought that's what you're just got men's up. They used to wear I Took a man's attest by the way because I stepped out thought I was so smart and I got the results

He goes, you know what? This is stupid. He crumbled it up. I had I you know I think the mistake I made is what I, when I showed up at Stern Out Live, I was wearing the mortar board on your head that you wear at graduation. And I walked around with a tassel and a diploma and mortar board. That's the thing that you were on your head at graduation. I didn't know it was called mortar board. Jesus Christ. You had a semester at Arizona State Community College. Diaries, you did go to a hard gourd. Did you go to college at all, Mr. Spade?

In my, you know what, Dana? I'm asking you about a grant apology. Yeah, I went to Scottsdale Community, which is basically the Tiger Plus. Yeah, and the Artichokes, And then I went to Arizona State. By the way, Scott's there was like my warm-up for his shoe and I got all this cruise through this. And then I was like, wait, this is hard.

Now I gotta go to a fucking ASU after this. This is supposed to be the layup. And then I got to ASU and I was in a fraternity. And I have to say, and all the fraternity guys get mad at me, but I just don't think fraternities are a good idea in general. It was. Oh no, there, it was. it was 90% hazing and pouring pep preka my head and spray pep on my feet. Also, David, you're a fragile flower.

I, I think of them. Dan, can you do a keg stand and drink six quarts of vodka? And I think you would die immediately. I think you would, I think you would die would die the second they had you do anything. I can't believe you survived that. You survived that. You used you as a prop to beat up the cap on football team. I know that Dana and Conan know I'm a fragile Dan line

and then I go, well, at least it's within my tight friend group. And then I realize like I come off the world like some fucking hard ass athlete. But the really the world just kind of knows I am. I sit funny on Ellen, they're like right away going, what's happening? On your hunches. Yeah, I sit on my knees. Yeah, you sit on your knees.

At the restaurant we were at, you were sitting on your knees a lot and you'd get up and you'd walk around. Stretch out. Stretch out. Yeah. You were doing a lot of cocaine at the restaurant. Can I ask you guys a question? Yeah. I had cocaine mixed with the second booster.

I did not do what was cocaine. I didn't want a day, and that's too bad. Then I burst into tears like a half hour later, then I did it the second time, drove to the comedy club and said, they all hate me. All the other, everyone hates me and I drove back home. That was just what I only did it twice.

Yeah, I look at both of you and I'm gonna include myself in this, I'm gonna look at all three of us, because I never did it. And I always just knew, I am not the personality type that needs to be artificially revved up. Yeah, that, you need to calm down. I saw a doctor, yeah, I mean, you guys saw me at SNL and I was always grinding my hands together,

particularly starting a fire with my knuckles. And the Conan show, you would, you know, late night, you would ride a bicycle to get your hair off. Yeah, and I would grind my hands together and grind my teeth and shatter them because I was so uptight and the last thing in the world, no one's ever said, you know what you need, man? You need some cocaine. No one's ever said that to me.

And. Yeah. Just for sure interrupt you. The, sorry, we're new at this. But when I was in community college, this comedian, I like gave me a few bumps, you know? Yeah, I'm using street metal right now. Cocaine line, yeah, yeah, bump me up a little bit. I'm using street records right now. Cocaine line.

Yeah, yeah, bump me up a little bit. I'll sniffy jiffy little power flower. And so I'd do it and then I liked it. I never did it before stage, but I liked it. And then I thought he did. It was cool. And I was a little bit of a count gacula there for a while. And then I got, and then I slowed down in college.

But when I got to SNL, the only time I should be doing it, because I'd stay up all night, I never did it once and I thought I always regret that I'm kidding But I always thought wouldn't that would not be the time to be like because I'd be like y'all and I I would get myself I'd make myself get up at 9.30 Just because I thought it was so weird to stay up all night every night I wasn't used to it and I'm like this is so weird to be in New York. And I wanted some semblance of anything normal. And it was very hard to go in. And like, I don't think people at home know

they always hear you write Tuesday night all night. But you're allowed to go in at noon and write. It just no one really does it. And I would write. That is a completely messed up thing. And I've asked, I've interviewed current cast members and I'll say, do you really still that thing? Were you coming on Tuesday and everyone stays up

until Wednesday night? You don't still do that, do you? And they'll say, yeah, it's kind of still there. And there are all these rumors that it started at, that it started in the 70s. And obviously it hasn't changed at all. And people were doing cocaine. Now, the group that I came in the 70s and obviously it hasn't changed at all. And people were doing cocaine. Now the group that I came in with, you know, Greg Daniels and Bob Odin Kirk and Robert

Smigel, we were all like getting, we were all getting our cholesterol checked. You know, we weren't, we weren't guys that were, hey, how do we score something? No, we weren't partying either. I mean, none of us were, and, there are famous cast members that did, but for the most part, it was a very, I remember going into Tom Davis' office once, and at like one o'clock in the afternoon, and he had a bottle, yeah, and hilarious guy and wonderfully sweet guy. But he had a bottle of red wine on his desk, and he was drinking bottle, yeah, got a hilarious guy. And wonderfully sweet guy. But he had a bottle of red wine on his desk

and he was drinking red wine at like one o'clock in the afternoon and I remember being scandalized, you know, red wine is nothing, you know, I was like, who's like madman if you know the reference. Just, you have a little, so Tom Collins or what. Exactly, but I don't I don't I don't we were not those people but we still stayed up For whatever it was 35 hours in a row because that was ingrained it had been institutionalized in 75

That meant you care that means you're working hard right? Schneider would stay up and eat whereas his boxers and I'd go, that's a no. Let me ask you a question, Conan. Would you have a story there, David, sorry. No, just that we would write and I would go home because I wanted to, and you know, Conan, I don't think people know also

when you're writing on a legal pad. The girls were like madmen. They were typing up four girls in a room. Remember Claire and everyone they had. Yeah, sure. Type up and a sketch. And I didn't know how to write sketch format. So I'd write it out with this guy says this and do as close as I could and put a little stage direction. And then I'd go home and then I'd finish it or something and I'd have to drive a cab

back to hand it in. Then I'd come back home to sleep two hours and come back. It was such a weird process, but I couldn't email stuff in. That would have been fucking great. And then they would do it for me, and sometimes they would do it a little wrong, because you want to go over it one more time. You'd have to drive in to go over it again before it went in the packet for read through.

And sometimes a little teensy mistake like that would, like you said, screw everything up. Let me ask Conan a question. I just want because you were there as a writer. To me as a cast member going through, I remember on Tuesday early evening, the writers are hanging out in the writer's room. A lot of foods being ordered and a lot of talk about sports, anything but the task, anything but everything. And then there's just hours and hours of just subconscious work, I guess, and pressure. Cause sometimes I would leave as a baby at 3 a.m.

And you guys would still be there leaning back in your chairs, picking on some tacos or whatever. And then I find out later they got done, but I mean, what, I mean, what did you just think about that six hours Tuesday evening that was? Oh, those are the, you know, those are the dark times. I would get very, very, like I got nothing, nothing's happening.

I got nothing and I, I shouldn't be doing this for a living and I'm seriously, I would have some kind of, I would say at least on any second, you know, not every week, every Tuesday night that I was writing, but I'd say at least 50% of them I'd have a profound collapse, mental collapse, because what happens is you hear people, everyone else has a good idea,

and you hear Frank and Laughing. And you hear a big gales of laughter coming from other rooms, and I remember very much, you know, sometimes thinking, yeah, this isn't what I'm supposed to do, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. And then you snap out of it. But a lot of waiting for the commissary to open so you could get breakfast and it would open at like seven o'clock in the morning and that's when you could go and get a bagel with some bacon on it and drink a cup of coffee. Yeah, it was really... But Conan, do you ever say like, I mean, in your head, like I use to think, I don't think of it then, but what are the chances you're gonna think of a bit

every week a sketch that everyone will talk about? It's just such an impossibility. Sometimes I would jump on with someone who had a good idea and they needed help and I'd write it with you. Just to get my name on something because I wanted to feel useful there and I could fire it, but I would blank out.

I'd also hear Smigel and Sandler, cracking up in the office next to mine, it was connected to mine, I'd be like, fuck, I'm so jealous, they're killing it. Sandler was a guy who, most people when they show up are somewhat nervous, and I remember, you know, I remember David, you like walking office to office and saying, hey guys, you know, what do you guys work on? And I remember, I remember, you know, I remember David, you like walking office to office and saying, hey guys, you know, what do you guys work in on?

And I remember, I remember it very well, Chris Rock, because he showed up when I was there. And when he would first, she was very quiet. And he's a very sweet guy, I always remember. Yeah, very sweet, very quiet. And not the Chris Rock that, on stage, that people see on stage, who's the most confident man in the world, he's kind of asking,

what do you, I don't know, what are you guys working on? Yeah, I don't really know, I don't really know. And that was the energy people had, Sandler, the second he showed up was just so happy and enthusiastic about everything. And he'd be like, oh, let's get milkshakes. Let's get milkshakes, yeah. And he would be doing bits and just laughing his ass off.

And I thought he's so comfortable in me. He's kind of conventing about it. Yeah, he was so confident that he was, I think he was one of those guys, he was like, I'm gonna be a big star. And let's get started, this is gonna be fun. It's almost like it wasn't even a possibility that he wouldn't be,

because also everything was clicking so fast like people smuggle downy me you guys meet all laugh at what he's doing and it was so different and off what I would think about on my own head that I was like wow that's cool he's got this whole persona and then he throw they throw it into I raki Pete or they throw it into something bit, you know, and you see pieces of it And then you go shit, they're buying it. They're buying their buying more and more and he just go I'm gonna write an update I'm gonna write a song I'm writing another update and just keep going and they were working there But he did have a period where there was I think he was inevitable and really confident

But he did have a period where he was I don't not sure if I remember it correctly, but he did have a period where he was, uh, I, I don't not sure if I remember it correctly, but I think at one point, Lauren will kind of feel someone out. Day note, Adam, what, what do you, you do think that's going to do? Cause when Adam first came out with a ball, but it didn't always kill. Right. And I remember one time in the hallway near the makeup room, I had an office over there on eight H and I came out in the hallway near the makeup room, I had an office over there on 8-H and I came out in the hallway and he was leaning back against the and this was not normal at him. He looked emotional and almost like he was going to cry. He's a sketch had gotten cut.

And as I remember, I gave him a pep talk. I never forgot that. But he did 23 when he got to show. But also remember, I don't think people at the network weren't, I don't think they weren't thrilled. And that's another thing. Yeah, what happens is that stuff, there's revisionist history,

what happens later on now everybody loves norm, but they really didn't. You know, as they really, there was a lot of, there was a lot of, yeah. He got fired and Adam, there were people with the network that really weren't supportive of Adam. Did Adam get them? Yeah.

And I think Lauren was probably get some pressure, like what's with the Adam guy? And you think, it's just so funny how later on to anyone listening right now, everything seems inevitable. Yeah. Everything seems, you know, it's the way people read history. They read history and they think, yeah, well, of course, Franklin Roosevelt became president

because he's Franklin Roosevelt. And of course, he was president like four times. No, it's not inevitable. It can go a million different ways. And at the time, there are a lot of people, you know, who are later on, you know. I mean, I remember, Farley, I was there when he was waiting outside Lauren's office to get his interview.

And Lauren had him waiting for like two days. And I was just talking to Farley and George. Doing bids with them. And at one just talking to Farley and Jo. Doing bids with them. And at one point, I took them around the, I took them around eight H and I was pretending that I was a big shot and saying like, and so there'd be a crane that was already going up.

And I'd be like, Joe, get that crane up. And the crane would be going up anyway. And I was goofing around with Farley. He would laugh, and he was laughing so hard. He was such a immediately great, sweet guy. But I think he was, when he first came on, he was nervous, and I remembered it really turning around when, I think Jim Downey wrote the chip and Dale sketch.

And suddenly it's, oh, he's... With Patrick's Wazey. With Patrick's Wazey. And it it's this that was one of the top ever Knowing right off the bat like a standing ten feet away going. This is like one for the books. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is this is um And you knew just okay. This is I want to be on the floor when that thing happens because That's gonna be a tsunami to be a big floor when that thing happens because that's going to be a tsunami. To be a big guy like Chris was at that point and he was so athletic and so physical and to see

a guy, his weight moved like that and so it just blew the roof off. You know, back to misunderstanding, Sandler for a second. I remember Sandy warning his manager at the time and he said, Sandler for a second. I remember Sandy warning his manager at the time and he said he's such a good looking kid I don't know why it does all that goofy stuff You know, so you're right things he did have the girls right away, but you know what's interesting about about Adam Adam said this to me once mean they liked him. Yes, one of the things that Fascinated me. He pulled me aside. He said Conan. I do fascinated me. He pulled me aside. He said, Conan, I do, yeah, we do. That's so funny. Let's get lunch. It's so funny because he lives right up the street and he would he'd come by my he comes by my house and you know he'll

he'll shout outside the house. Conan, Conan, and he's got the best yell voice to. But I guess one of the things that I never, he said this to me and it really fascinated me. I asked him like who his idol was at the time and I thought it was gonna be a comedy person. And he looked at me and he said James Con. And I was like, James Con, like, James Con, the son of Godfather. And then I saw it, like, which is Adam has that,

he can channel that. He has that, and you know, from his dramatic roles, he can kill it. He can lock eyes with somebody, he can sell it. He can lock eyes with somebody. He can sell it. He can, he has that energy. He has a tough guy energy too. He has a tough guy energy. And he's, so he's doing all this stuff

that like I can kind of see what Sandy Wernick's talking about, which is he probably thought, here's this good looking kid with real acting chops. And why is he dressed like a baby going, I don't, I don't like I, you know, and it's, but Adam knew what he was doing. He, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I love smi go I'm gonna put them in all my movies. I remember thinking oh he are All your movies how many all box 70 But Conan you were saying like when you see him in a hallway staying there

We've all been there where you go your newer and Everything hasn't clicked for me yet and he's probably in his head going, what am I doing? Am I any good? Is this shit too weird? What, everybody, am I as good as these guys? Everybody has that, I think about this sometimes with Saturday Night Live today, which is, I'm always grateful that things happen to me when they happen to me. When you think about it, our staff, is grateful that things happen to me when they happen to me.

When you think about it, our staff, especially when I first showed up, the staff we were working with was really small, by today's standards. It was when I first showed up, it's, there's like, and I've seen group pictures of the staff and it's Dana, Phil, you know, Kevin, Jan, Nora, there's like seven of you and John Loveitz and you think it really does look like the cast

of Gilligan's Island and that was the entire cast and I think in a way, everybody was in almost everything because they had to be. Yeah, you were constantly in the show. And now I am always, you know, hearing about, okay, there's, you know, here's, it's justly strong, but when you're young, so you'd be like, great, great, I got it. But then you realize there's,

there's 35 other people. And that with that many staff, But then you realize there's there's 35 other people and that with that many staff, I think it would be hard. I think it's maybe must be more challenging for the writers and can you imagine being on that staff now and thinking how do I get on the air? And also they have guest stars now. We never, we would do that once in a blue moon, but. Dana Accrad came in and did Bob Dole. And that was like a big thing. I would have been

live it as a cast member. Just think, Conan, when we were there, we were sort of overlapping with Dan and Dennis and Lovis. And when we all came in, and it was pretty full then and also Frank and was available. You know, there's a lot of people who do stuff. And it's hard to, I don't even know what it's like. Well, no, it's hard. It's harder. It's hard to pop. And it's like, I think if you're playing on a basketball game and there's 35 benches

and 12 players on each bench, you know, your chances of getting in the game are, are, are, I would think be, be much tougher. You can't beat down the, the innate fear and terror and uncomfortableness of doing that show unless you get on air. It's very hard to get, is how do you try not to try? And that's, it's, it's, it took me 80 shows, I think, to get out of my head, you know. Right. And I think that's why, uh, and, and clearly they keep finding really great talented people,

but I would think it would be so much harder if you haven't found your foothold right away. If you haven't found your niche right away, I would imagine it being, I would feel for a cast member now, because I think, man, that's a challenge to pop. You have to have a clear niche. If we have, I was sort of sarcastic. You know, Chris was this, Adam was doing this. So at least you have that.

Then you sort of go, oh, I'm not just a one-trick pony. Anyway, long story short, I am. But at the time, I was always Johnny. I can do other stuff. And then they go, okay, what? And I go, I don't know. But maybe for the writers, it might be easier because you have more people to cast,

but it's also hard in a new world to say, can you, can Dana play a girl? No, you can't do that. Or if you're Asian, if you're Korean, are you in a play girl? No, you can't do that or if you're Asian if you're Korean Are you allowed to play Japanese like there's so many? There's a new world where Things are offensive and on a show like SNL Are you still allowed to be goofy and do impressions and they must have one more?

There's stuff I I was involved in that could never be on today. I don't even want to mention it, but it was the sketch at one point, we had Candice Burgon, and she kind of talked about how it was, maybe a little not politically correct. But do you guys think that, like, Saturday Night Live today, it's easy to get into Grumpy Old Man, I just like, oh, we did it this way, because I remember running into Sid Cesar in an airport. I could tell he was sort of bitter,

that it's not, you know, SNL's not that good, we did it better. It's art always just built for its time. I mean, my father just hated the Beatles and then loved them later. It's just kind of an interesting idea of like, is art always Andy Warhol in 1962 or whatever? Is there an I live as exactly where it's supposed to be?

Culturally, or do you have any issues with it? I don't have, I don't, I made a promise to myself a long time ago judging that. Well, I made a promise that there are things I'm gonna get and things I'm not gonna get, but that be happy, I'm going to get and things I'm not going to get, but that be happy, I'm very happy that I got to do what I got to do at the time that I got to do it. And I make a real effort.

There are some things I don't understand or there'll be something that people really love that doesn't click with me. But I think for the most part, if something's getting a lot of likes, if something's getting a lot of traction online, and I look it up, and it's something from a recent Saturday night live, I look it up, and it's Chris Red doing Kanye, and I'll be like, oh, that's really funny. That is, if something's getting traction, it's usually for a reason.

And yes, there's a lot that's different about, there can be different about the show now, but I do very much try and remind myself that it's not worse or better, it's just different. It's just a completely different time. Steve Higgins told me that, I don't know if, he just said that Lauren wrote the Constitution. This is his words.

And then it sort of evolves. It's a living document in a sense. And so today it is what it is, but you're right. I think funny is still funny. You know it's so funny though. And now the thing now that I totally was not happening when I was there, what is this business of writers dating movie stars and? And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and was walking around and I, you know, I said it's amazing. I had Madonna on my arm.

I was like, guys, guys, I, you know, please let me in the restaurant. Where, you know, and people are like, Conan, Conan this way, Madonna, you know, and it's just like, what? It's so funny and I'm picturing, you know, I'm just, she's bragging about a cold opening you wrote. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, and, and, and, you know, nerdy me and nerdy Greg Daniels. And he's got, you know, he's got Melanie Griffith on his arm. And he's like, please, please, move aside, you know.

I remember, I, I think it was for the movie's sex lives and videotape. I think Andy McDowell was on the show. And she's just, she's so gorgeous and it was my birthday. And I even know how she knew, but I was back in my office grinding away and all of a sudden the door opened and she walked in with a cranked with, yeah, she walked in with a cake with candles on it

and sang happy birthday and like gave me a hug and I, my soul left my body and never came back. I'm soulless. I've never had a soul in my body. We didn't have drugs, we didn't have women. And that's my racy story is that Andy McDowell very sweetly blew out the birthday candles on my cake and wasn't that a nice memory.

I wasn't sleeping with anyone famous. I wasn't being counted by the paparazzi. So that's a world, that's a way that sign out life has changed where, you know, the third assistant director on the show is going out, you know, with, you know, Megan, these style. But we had our work in front of us. And then we were behind the facade, but it seems to me that fame is talent now. Like I, you can be critical or judgmental.

This person's advocating fame or procuring fame, but it's its own talent and it's its own power. I don't know. But that would make, I mean, I don't want to judge it. It just seems like, I think you just did. Doodle-doo! Yeah. You know, by the new changes, they can miss a lot of shows.

Like Conan, you weren't a lot of missed shows. No one's a lot of miss anything. Yeah. This is a gr lot of miss anything. Yeah. This is a grumpy old man thing for sure, but I was jealous that I found out, you know, people would take huge chunks of time off if they felt like they just had to shoot a movie or something. Well, that was one of the things that's kind of mind-boggling now

is the show starts in October of 75 and immediately Chevy Chase becomes the biggest star in America. And like a year later, he says, well, it's either continuing to start out live or make a movie. I guess I got to go make this movie so goodbye Saturday night live. And you think, no, that's not what you, now it's a different world, now it's, go make your movie and then come back. You can have, you can, You can do both and do commercials. It's incredible.

Exactly. So I think there was a, there was clearly a different, I almost think the rules were different or people didn't. I couldn't do a Super Bowl commercial when I was two, three years in. They just said no. I didn't even know they could,

but that was part of it. Were you offered one or you asked to do a super bulk commercial and all the companies? No, I had some good ideas. No, I think good idea. You're agent call them out. That's really funny if I was in one. No, I got a diet Pepsi and it was good money. Obviously, I was going to say, I don't know what you made when you started. I think I got 900 a week to write Obviously, I was gonna say, I don't know what you made when you started. I think I got 900 a week to write. And the Pepsi commercial, I think, was 250 grand. And then I just trickled back down to me. They say, that's not what we do or something.

And I'm like, that's not what we do. We don't make money for working six hours. It was a real crusher because I wasn't getting on much. I didn't know about a future there. And I thought, wow, at least I'll get one click off this and luckily I hung in there. I mean, luckily I stayed and worked and ultimately made some money. But that was a real thing. We didn't do it. I was offered a giant taco bell thing. Right as I came. I was offered a giant taco once. And I asked Conan, should I do the Taco Bell commercial? I told him

the number and he said, absolutely not. I'll never forget that. Conan killed it. Yeah, I had that kind of power back then. Don't you love when people say, this is what you said, I had a guy do stuff I said in 1979. I remember you said that you were going there. And then I remember, I said, 45 years ago,

you get to decide what I said. You know, it's so funny. What happens once you become a known person is that other people add you into stories that you weren't in in the first place because it makes it a better story. Funny. So I went back to a reunion once at my high school.

And this guy there was like, hey, gone in. Remember back in the back, we had some crazy times. And I was like, I was like, hey, gone in, you know, remember, you know, back in the back, you know, I remember you. And he was like, we have some crazy times. And I was like, I was thinking, I don't even know who this guy is. And then he said, hey, remember the time you and I broke into Steven's market. We broke into Steven's market

and we stole all those beers, but the cops showed up. So we went out the back and you went left and I went right and I got nabbed. And you took the beers the beers you fuck a ha ha but I didn't squeal on you. And you know what? I didn't drink until I was like 28. I've never committed a crime in my life. I didn't break into a liquor store. You know that story is on heavy rotation too.

No, no, no. But the thing is what happens after a while is you get tired saying no, you did that with someone else, but it's been a lot of years and a lot of beers since then. And then years and years. Yes, so you added, you added me in. And I started to think, gee, that, I don't know, it's made me read history differently.

Like when I read a history book now, they say, oh, Lincoln, I remember a firsthand account. I remember Lincoln once, I said to him, you know, something and he said, what's that? And he knocked me right on my ass. And then I stood up and I knocked him on his ass and he said, you're a better man than I.

And I think, I don't think any of that happened. I think you just add in Abraham Lincoln to your story. I was at a restaurant early 1980s. I think you just added Abraham Lincoln to your story. I was at a restaurant early 1980s. I saw the guy doing that to Jimmy Stewart. And I could tell that Jimmy Stewart is getting really impatient. And remember that time, you know, in high school, we did this call it same old thing.

And Stewart stood up and said, I don't understand a fucking word you're saying. Yeah. Is that true? No, I just did that so I could get to Stuart's wedding. Oh, come on. Yeah, that was a good one. A good scenario though.

I wanted to believe that was true. I wanted to believe that I set you up. Yeah, I got you. By the way, Conan was nice when I got there. Conan, I have to make sure I tell everybody. No, Conan, I'm sure you can be a prick. I don't see it. I'm just sensing it.

Maybe. I'm a person. I was there and Conan said, as a hazing, you know, this was right before Conan died, as he had read, he said, go out and give me some hair dye. And you, Sandler, and Schneider. And by the way, Conan, did you ever, does Jack this a weird question?

Does Jack Candy ever collaborate with the other writers? He always wrote it by himself. Maybe collaborated somewhat, but Jack Candy was stunning, because he could go off. Talk about nice guys, what a genius. But also, I always envied him because he didn't need anybody else, you know?

And he would go in his room, nice to sky, and then you hear like typing, and then he'd come out and he'd say, well, good night everybody, and would say, all right, sucker. We're gonna be here for another nine hours. And see you in the next morning, his sketch is the funniest thing.

His sketch is killed, I would say 95% of the time. And it was an unreal slugging percentage. I would be baffled because I'm already just a newer writer, learning outright sketches, trying out to reek up, read through. And then knowing the level, you know, when I look back of all you guys who was so much quality there and then seeing like a Jack Haney sketch which just does another move, not like better or worse, just like so smart and twisty and you go, what is he talking about?

He was like a mad scientist. He'd go in there and no one would bump with it. You're not going to bump with the soggy sketch. You have this idea once. To me, it was always the simplicity of the idea that would make me think why didn't I think of that But it's but his ideas were so elegant and so different I actually got to be in this sketch. I'm there in the background and you can if you blank you'll miss me But it's James bonds, you know, he James Bond always makes his way to the doctor,

whatever, doctor knows. Oh, James, yeah, it's a layer. It's a layer. He always gets to the layer and shows up. And the layer is always the most amazing thing you've ever seen. And the guy is like, welcome, Mr. Bond. Well, this is James Bond shows up at the layer.

But the layer still has three months to go before they're done. It's not true. And so there's a lot of construction going on. And so, Dr. Noah is really pissed because he's like, Mr. Bond, you're not done yet. And he was like, well, so sorry, blowfeld, or whatever, you know, the evil guy's name is.

So sorry, blowfeld, sorry, don't crash your pardon, he goes, well, let me show you. Now, Mr. Bond, if you were to be here four months from now, I'd have led you over to this. This is gonna be a tank with sharks. Now, right now, they're still setting the forms, the cement's coming in a week, and everything was, and over here,

there's going to be a laser, and bonds, bonds giving, trying to scare, laser and bonds, bonds giving him shit. And I thought, oh my God, of course, these layers have to be built. And Bond is always showing up six months after it's been finished and it looks fantastic. It's working.

Of course. He would show up. Wow, they're halfway through. It was great. it was great. It was great. You guys obviously like his runners that were big were frozen caveman lawyer with Phil. Yeah, yeah. Oh my God.

Yeah, the one of the weird ones I remember, maybe you remember it, but it was something about people talking to aliens and they were high up on this thing and somehow the aliens only wanted to talk about box office receipts of current movies. And it went on and on. The one that I remember that. With Christopher Walken that Jack, I believe it was Jack Handy wrote, is we're landing on Earth and they are, every time the landing gear would come down, it would like kill a farmer or something. So we would come out and we'd be like, we, we come in peace, you

know, and they'd be like, killers, killers. And then walking would always go, let's get out of here. And then we'd go back and, and then we would land again, it would kill a farmer, we'd come out, yeah, let's get out of here. You can catch a break. Suddenly, Chris and I are in this little tight wooden structure, like a spacecraft. His face is an inch from my face just crying with laughter from, let's get out of your part. Let's get out of here. I mean, no.

Okay. That's all I got. That note, what I would, my question would be, and you guys could answer this better than I could, which is why I'm asking you, which hosts, when you were there, really made it impression on you either positively or negatively, because it's such a strange thing that someone's introduced to your life. They show up on Monday night, and by the time you get to the show party on Saturday, you've been through this intense experience with them, and then they can spit out,

and yeah, with host like, you know, with a host like an Alec Baldwin or Tom Hanks or a Christopher Walken, you know they're coming back any year, but so often you never see that person again. You don't even know. Steve Gutenberg, you know, I remember he had a good show, but I don't think he ever came back. I do think that the athletes, Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky,

were big and the older movie stars, for me, this is back in first season, I think. It was a Jack Handysketch, Robert Mitchem, and I were in a sketch together. And neither of us knew what the sketch was about. We were beekeepers or something, so just being on Charlton Heston, I mean, those were the more surreal ones. Well, also, yeah, I mean, to me, and this was true when I was doing the late night show, anytime I got to interact with someone who had been on TV or the movies when I was a kid,

Yeah, that blew my mind. So if you know, totally, you know, I remember in the hallway chatting with Mickey Rooney and And Mickey Rooney there was there was a garment rack there, you know that you can hang and Mickey Rooney was very short and he jumped up while he was talking to me and grabbed the bars of the garment rack and started doing chin-ups. Really? He was talking to me and then swinging kind of like a monkey.

And he's like, you know, and I remember telling my dad, yeah, I hung out today with Mickey Rooney and my dad couldn't process it because my dad was born in 1929. So, and it was huge when he was 10 then. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so when Mickey Roon, when my dad's 11, the biggest name in the world is Mickey Rooney. Yes. And there's no bigger star in the world.

As he liked to. He liked to. So when I call my dad, and to that, oh yeah, I was hanging out with him, but then I had to tell him, Mickey, I got to go, we got to start the show. And so I blew him off. He just couldn't, he couldn't comprehend. Why would Mickey Rune talk to you, you know? I have the same thing, but go ahead and finish that. No, no, no, no, no. It's me throwing it to you guys saying, you guys got to meet and work with these people more closely than I did. I was a writer.

Going and I have one too, where you were there. One of my rock stars of my life was Boey, and then he was music with tin machine. And I told Dana, but you were there during my first receptionist was a sketch. I couldn't get on. And then we asked, we sent it to Bowie to be himself and come in. And then I don't know who he is, whatever the hilarious jokes are. And then we sent it to him in a boss hotel. And then he, they, Mars, he goes, uh, bow, he, call David Bowie, he's looking for you.

I go, call David Bowie. Yeah, right, right, right. You know those kind of things. I think it was on a yellow piece of paper and it was in my box. When I walked into work and you pull it out, it's David Bowie. Here's his fake name, the NBC, you know, that stuff you get when he get messages. And I, I was so sick, nervous and I called him. And he picked up, gave the fake name and then he picked up and then he's like, oh, this is the funniest sketch I had loved

to be in and I go, things he goes, but can I play your part? Oh. And I go, oh, the receptionist, he goes, that's the funny part. Well, I mean, me playing myself is boring. I mean, you could play me and I'll play you, your part. And I go, I don't think I can do that. It was so weird. So you had to say no.

Yeah, and then he was weird about it. And then he didn't like it. He goes, all right, well, I'll see you at the show. Wow. And I go, and he hung up. And then like you were saying, just about that week, first I get to meet an idol. I don't think I knew, maybe I knew him, I've had him once twice for that. And then I come back and now here are the good nights. I see him, I've had him once twice for that. And then I come back and now hear the good nights.

I see him and I know there was some friction. Now I know, now I met Bowie and there's friction. Some stormy past. So then when he leaves good nights, he goes, hey, I didn't really get what was going on. That's like a running sketch. And you know, I'm sorry, I used to say that. Oh, that's nice that he said that.

I'm glad. Yeah. My experiences with him were that he was such a gentleman. And so, I get that he said that. I'm glad. Because my experiences with him were that he was such a gentleman. And so I get that he didn't know that it was a runner that you can't, you can't call Dana, and say, I'll do George Bush. And you'll be the guy who comes into the room with the sandwich.

Right, and it was one of those lessons of like, first of all, don't give a host nothing. You know, there was things, you know, they'd say, what does the host do in this? And you know, you got to give them something to do. They don't, they won't pick the sketch if it's all you and they don't do anything, you know, and that kind of thing.

So that was a classic example. He just goes, that's not fun for me. And I got it. It was all selfish. I wanted him to be my sketch and I wanted to school. You have regretter with the things you say, and you would bother you for a while,

and then later on you realize it was nothing. Because when Sting was on the show, we were coming down the elevator at the end of the show, and I was hyped up because it was Sting, and we came out, and there were all the people waiting at the bottom of the elevator like a big mob. So I put my arm around sting and said ladies and gentlemen, sting.

And then he grabbed me and kind of went, you know, with anger. So for years I thought he was mad at me, you know, until I ran into him later, you know, it would go through my head sometime. The only other funny moment, well go ahead and comment on that. Did you ever have, did you ever have your moment?

Did you think he didn't want to bring it up like he's got it as a block. I think it was obnoxious. You know, you're just, you get nervous around famous people and you can say or do stupid things. Conan. Yeah, I definitely, but the thing is that's in your head and you're talking about it all these years later and sting, forgot about it seconds after it happened. And I've had, after all those years of doing the late night shows, interview, I've had, no, I've had people come up to me and say, hey, I owe you an apology. And then they'll apologize. And I, they'll say, you know, I, I wasn't really prepared or I had a little too much to drink before I came on. And I know it was, and it was like,, they'll say, you know, I wasn't really prepared or I had a little too much to drink before I came on and I know it was, and they'll say, like, I know you are really mad.

And I, I know you're so mad about that. And I don't think, I don't, A, I don't have any memory of it and I don't think, no. I'm not mad at you and I don't even know what you're talking about. Yeah, I'm thinking about that. And so, and then they're really relieved. They're, they're like, oh my God, but then also probably possibly insulted.

Like they carry around in pain for decades. And you're like, the story meant nothing to you. That's suffering. What we've had therapy now, so we know that we're wounded clowns in some level. There's a, sure. Conan's not buying that. Going in there.

I'm not buying that. I'm, I, I chose that moment to look out the window. Yeah, you're looking at them looking at Sandler's home right now. Beautiful. Hey, that's a good one. Oh, that's a good one. Uh, yeah, I, um, it's always like it.

If you're a sensitive instrument, which is a good thing to be, if you're a performer, an actor, a comedian, and then it infiltrates your normal life. You process people, but everyone's okay. Well, here's a thing that I think you could both relate to, which is people, their assumption would be that if we make fun of somebody or we tell a joke at someone's expense that we don't really care how they feel, and the truth is... Or we don't like this. Yeah, and the truth is, you know, with, yes, there are people you can tell a joke about who you really despise, who are awful people, or impressions you can do of someone.

But for the most part, and I think this includes both of you, I think most people would be surprised at how much we don't want to hurt someone's feelings and that when you hear back from somebody, like I know there was pressure on you, Dana, because you did such a great Johnny Carson impression and people would think like, oh, you're killing with your Johnny Carson impression because it was so perfect, but you're hyper worried the whole time that it might upset Johnny or feel and flattering to him. And it did and it felt bad because when I did it

and when I sat in that character and it's been reinforced by Tom Hanks and Martin Short on this podcast, like that was the most comfortable I've been doing a sketch on that show. I didn't care if it got laughs. I was so comfortable Being that the charming Johnny so the gentleman joins us for what year you folks are home or watching a television So I he was fine for a while and I would still be on his highlight reel and I would see Johnny And then there was one that offended him and then I never went on the show the last two years I was so I knew that I

Was out and it was that was shadow band that was really really Unfortunate I didn't like that and and someone told me that he would walk down the hall at NBC and Burbank and say They're making fun of me now, it's time to go. Just yell it out. So, I think I felt that. I felt that I heard this was from the great Rick Ludwin, terrific executive who, NBC executive who loved, you know, loved SNL,

loved late night, that was what he was in charge of. And, and, and, very nice. Really and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and and, and, and, and, and, and and, and and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and and, and, and, and, and And anyway, I bring him up because he used to also work the Carson show. And he remembers having to go and tell Johnny, go into Johnny's dressing room and tell him, you know, Johnny, I talked to you about, okay, you know, well, there's just going to be a sketch. It's not live. And I do need to give you a heads up that he would have to tell him. And that and that and that Johnny would say, well I don't particularly think it's funny but that's

their right, that's their right to do that. And then he, you know, it's so funny because you forget, because we think of him as just being on top of the world from 1962 to what does it, 1991, he's just on top of the world. And what we forget, what we forget is that he's constantly like any comedian or any star. He's constantly afraid and on alert that they're coming after me now. And so I read this interview with Johnny Carson from 1980 when it was in Rolling Stone magazine

and he's talking about the interviewer who keeps saying, well, what do you think of Balushi and what do you think of Acaroid and what keeps asking about Star Night Live? And what did you think of Animal House and what do you think of Aceroid? And what keeps asking about sound life? And what did you think of Animal House? And what did you think of Chefi Chai? And Johnny, you realize it's been hearing from a lot of young people or whatever that that's what's the cool thing now.

And he was the cool thing from 62 to up to 75. And not that he still wasn't great and revered. But I thought, wait, in 1980, he's worried about... And he's taken a couple of shots at SNL, you know? And how he makes that, the humor really... He thinks it's a kind of obnoxious and he doesn't quite see it. And it's not his favorite thing. And then you realize that, okay, then eight years later or 10 years later, the show is

directly going on. Yeah, directly kind of having fun at his expense. I mean, I didn't think of it. I just always thought of it that time. Johnny Carson is so secure. What does he care? You know what I mean? And it's just funny and silly.

And your impression was, I thought affectionate. I thought you loved Johnny. I loved being in that. And I thought it was affectionate, but. Yeah. I do think that in show business. But I know that there was a sketch, I think there was a sketch that was written that made him a little someone wrote a sketch.

We know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The roughest part was Phil was playing the sidekick, Ed McMahon, and he was saying things like he literally was chuckling and going peaked in the 70s old reference lost on the reference loss now old reference lost on younger viewers and you think

Wow if I was okay if if there was a hot new sketch show now and there was a guy playing Conan and I'm just completely out of it and I'm not up on what's happening now and I'm, you know, which would, and I'm old because I've been on TV too long, I would, it would hurt my, I wouldn't even come in here. It would really hurt my feelings

and probably be deserved on some level. So I'd say it's, you can't have come in here. It would really hurt my feelings and probably be deserved on some level. So it's, you can't have it both ways. But I'm interested in this idea that every performer becomes a character of themself and you can look at someone sometime and just think is that person or is that a celebrity impressionist doing that person? And it happens to everyone

and you have to keep a sense of humor about it. Well, you're so self deprecrecating, you're always ahead of the... No, but I think that it's one of the things the three of us have a pretty good vantage point on, which is we've been at all the different stages. And then what I always wanted to be at the stage I'm at now is be gracious about and kind of intrigued and curious about the young people coming up because I'm five seconds away from someone ripping me a new asshole for being too old. So just try, be gracious about all of this.

Well, I remember Sammy Davis Jr. on television out of the blue going, I'm not going to be competitive with Michael Jackson anymore. You know, and he was like almost 60. Oh, Sammy Davis. Yeah. But I had a good time with Conan and Conan. Thank you, Conan. Really great.

Guys, I love talking to you. I look forward to us getting a meal. Yes. That would be really nice. That would be fun. Yeah. We don't need serendos this time. We don't need a Netflix guy. Oh, he was fine.

He was just padding. We move on now. We move on. It's just this three of us next time. That's it. No, we had a blast, but we could do with us. And we'll fight to see who pays. Won't be me.

Okay, thanks, Connor. Okay, I do love you guys. And thank you for having me on. I love you, Connor. It's nice to have you. Let Won't be me. Okay, thanks. Okay, I do love you guys and thank you for having me on. It's nice to have you here. Let's have a dinner. See you. Goodbye. Check in next week where our guests will be Tom Hanks. Flying the Wall has been a presentation of Cadence 13. Please listen, then rate, review, and follow all episodes. Executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Chris Corcoran of Cadence 13 and Charlie Finan of Brillstein Entertainment, production and engineering led by Greg Holtzman, Richard

Cook, Serena Regan, and Chris Basel of Cadence 13. you