Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade - Jake Johnson on Ed Harris, Chris Farley and The Dink

Episode Date: July 23, 2026

Jake Johnson joins Dana and David this week to talk about doing comedy with Ed Harris, his experience with New Girl guest star Jon Lovitz, and his new movie The Dink. Also, Chris Farley, Phil Hartman, and remembering back when old people were old.

I've watched YouTube videos of him having lunch with people later. And it's a life where he's just like, stop talking to me, you son of a bitch. You're like, Ed Harris is 410. You can't tell. Bobby De Niro's 3-11. Pettysm's 25. Scorseson's 1-9.

Scorsesee 1-9 with his 1-9. 11th. 11 starts going, I'm not being treated enough with respect that I deserve. and we're like, we agree. And he goes, it's right there on my title. I'm a guest of this show. And I'm the star.

So Dana, Jake Johnson. Jake Johnson. Most people know him from New Girl. Then he's gone on to do a million things after that. Got a new movie on Apple TV called Dink. Is it The Dink or Dink? I don't know. I'll be honest.

What do you think about the Dink? I think it's called Dink. I know it's definitely Apple TV, and I know Fortune fymesters in it. I say femmester. Everybody's in an incredible cast. Got Ben Stillers behind it. He's in it. He's got the Ed Harris, who's doing comedy for the first time.

He was a very affable, fun guy to have on our podcast. So I listen. Yeah, he grilled us a little bit too. He was curious about us. We're like exotic freaks from the past. So he was asked some big questions. So we love that. What are you, are you real?

Yeah, he leaned into David and said, how do you do whatever it is you do? It's unexplainable. It's unexplainable. I can't believe you do what you do. But anyway, it was fun. We laughed a lot. Here he is.

Jake Johnson. Maybe it's, is it here? Oh, there are other people. There we go. And then can you make it bigger? Yeah. That's what she said. You can't say that.

She had said that to me. That's a hotel room. Who doesn't have that ladybug? What is that? Headboard. Random nice women who just help with stuff without being annoyed with me yet. I know. I saw.

There is a thing. I've stayed at that hotel, Jake, just to bore you to fucking death. Yeah, this is you the last 10 minute. Jake, do you need anything else? You ready? Jake, do you have your sip of water? We have the lemonade there that you got. Everything good?

Everything good. Are you ready for this? This one's going to be a bit of a grind. These guys are kind of a lot to say. They don't have a lot to say. I listen to your guys' show. I've been listening to the start. I'm a big fan of both you guys.

Good job. There we go. That's a good start. I was going to tell you that there is a fact. That's what we try to get out of every guest. And then we got to get a compliment that we clip. That's. Thank you, Jake.

That's our whole clip here. So, Dana, do you remember comic? This young man is too young. But Jake Johansen. Jake Johansen, yeah. You grew up with me. So I keep thinking Jake Johansson when I hear this young man's name. But I know who he is.

I know him. So I didn't want to mess that up. And I thought you would mess it up because you're from San Fran. You know, you're old when you refer to someone, I think, in their 40s as this young man. I was about to say, I'm going to be 50. soon. And I love and I love hearing this young man. This young Turk coming

on a podcast. You know, I'm just, I'm finding it. I'm having a lot of fun, man. This is fucking ingenue. Oh, I love that. Half a century is young. I have not been described as a young man in soul

and I was such a fuck up as a young man. So I gave a second chance when you guys talk to a comic. This is a cute little dandy. Thank you. This comic says when he was about 11 years old, he said, I would call people. He goes, I'm 50. And he goes, now I remember when I was 11, I'd fake call people and go, hello.

And a guy goes, hello, I'm 50. And he has like a fake cane. I'm 50 years old. That's in his head at 11. Molly Shannon had. I'm 50 and I'm fun. Yeah. Mike Myers, middle age man.

Like, I'm working on it. And he just must be 35 or something. Yeah. Speaking of, I just saw a photo of Brad Pitt, who's now, I guess, 62. And I'm like, that generation has changed decades. If that's 62, the 60s are different. When I was growing up 60, you're in another galaxy at 60, man. Brad Pitt's running around smoking weed looking great at 60.

I'm like, 60s don't seem to scary. Everyone rats him out for smoking weed. Because you don't expect it. He's like so handsome. He's talented. He smokes grass. He's like hooking up with cool people. I'm like, this is 60s?

And he says he's 62, just casually. Yeah, you do, man. I'm 62. No, you're right. Look, at my day back in my, if you look at. Old people, we're old people. Spencer Tracy, Clark Gable, John Wayne. They all died at 31.

At 60, it was over. One of my favorite things to do is when on Instagram, when I see sitcom actors from when I was growing up, their ages, it'll be the fucking old mailman from next door who's, should have been a thousand and they'll be like, Mike Irvin was 45. Archie Bunker was fucking 36. 38 years.

And I'm like, Edith was 52. I'm like, Edith was 52. old ass was 50. All the golden girls were 20. It's disgusting. I know. I grew up at a time when old people were fucking old people. Now you got you got to be like,

now I'm like, yeah, you're 80. You're getting there. Now it's look good, look good, die. There's no like, you hope, they're heading to death. Uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh. Unless you get out of our business and you go to the Midwest. And then you go, oh, yeah, man, you're 52, bro.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I went back to Arizona this weekend. This guy, the store goes, hello, I went to school with you. I was a year before you. Wait, what happened? You're younger than me? And I go, wait a second.

Are you okay? And they're like, Kane. I'm like, God, I'm guessing on some of the Hollywood reunion or what is this? I had the store. I'm like, they're like, we used to have a locker. I'm like, we're in the. same generation. Stop it.

Stop saying that it's scary. It's so horrible. He's like, well, I'm not gacked up on everything under the sun with your Hollywood Mr. Feel Good doctors. I'm like, yeah, I know. That's me. Every morning. Are you taking testosterone and doing all that stuff, Spade?

Are you in the peptides and all that stuff? I did two testosterone once. And when my nuts left the building, I said, you know what? I don't know if it's worth it. I don't know because it wasn't. The good. Wasn't the good kind? It wasn't beating the bad.

It wasn't helping enough. I'm not, I know I'm never going to mess with it because I'm so afraid of getting wide face. So you know, certain guys look at like, Oh yeah, dude. HGH as well makes the jaw and the head grow.

You remember Barry Bonds? Yes. HGH plus the T. Everything goes like this a little bit. Yes. And look, if you're an athlete, cool. if you're trying to be an actor and all of a sudden your face is different

come on they go hey call what are we talking about now the rib cage too goes out hgh gut you know wait there's a thing called hg8 oh yeah look it up yeah it's a famous podcaster it's just all the rib cage bones start to grow out bring the jaw and the head grows out Jake bring white face in they call me white face bro are you

you're fucking so good man your face is so wide these days you're like dude I pay for this and I get shots in my body for this so I can be a little bit stronger I heard that steroids would make your jaw get bigger and is there other things that happens

back acne some temper stuff oh that's steroids testosterone the thing that's scary about that is once you're on it you can never get off it Oh, really? Yes. Testosterone?

Once you're on it, you can never get off. Yeah. I have to go to the doctor. Also, Dana looks the best. Dana's ripped. It's a great looking man. There's a difference between being 50 and having some zing to your life and you don't act like so fragile.

There's some people you see and you go, okay. I see some comics. it bless their hearts at the show when I do the comedy store this Tuesday and Wednesday. And they're like, they're like a little, you know, it's just the comedy, I can't even make fun of it because comedy is the one thing where you can keep chugging along. And really until you just can't travel, it's really just about traveling and standing for it. Yeah. Remember what Clint Eastwood said.

And I have to pay attention to this now. Don't let the old man in. Because when I heard Clint Eastwood was going to make a movie and he. He was 63 at the time. I go, really? Now that guy? And he went on for 30 more years, so you can't look at your birth event and go, well, I guess I should start slumping because look at that number. Oh, wait.

I know what I want to. When did you, speaking of the old man, letting him in? Who's that story that you worked with Mickey Rooney on a pilot? Get him going. Sorry. I've watched YouTube videos of him having lunch with people later. And it's a life where he's just like, stop talking to me. you, shot of my bitch.

Oh, yeah. So mad at, I've had late nights where I can't sleep where the YouTube search is just Mickey Rooney letting it rip. Exploding it. Mickey Rooney. It just madded people. John Mullaney would hire me every week to come to his house and do my Mickey Rooney stories.

But really in a nutshell, just for this podcast. Because you listen to the Nathan Lane one who was on the Mickey Rooney show with me. Oh, okay. You guys get into it. And we get deep into it. Basically what he said once. He said it 100 times out of the blue, non-sequit. I was the number one star in the world.

You hear me? Bang. The world. And exactly like that every time. Bang the world. You're never fighting him on it. And then he would just keep saying it. You're like, you were.

I believe you. You were. There's no argument from anybody. Nobody. Everybody agrees, my man. You did it. Judy Garland never had air conditioning. Well, that was a non-sequitur down the hallway.

He's holding court in the makeup room. All I hear is Judy Garland never owned a car. That's what it. You know why? Because they pumped her so full of drugs and they killed her. By the way, going to the Judy Garland stuff, how about they're in the Wizard of Us? All the little people in the Culver Hotel.

Have you guys heard about this? We know about the orgies with the dwarfs. Yeah, we've talked about it. Yes. It's amazing. It was a fuck fest. A gambling fest, they all were on the roads traveling around and they all got brought to to do the movie and they were all given

per diem and they put them all on a floor in the Klover Hotel. All these guys were just, they were all fucking each other gambling all the time. The Lollipop Guild guys we represent, they're clearly a wrecked. If you watch it again, they're clearly we represent. Did you say

erect? I did, Dave. I did, Dave. He's trying to turn us on. He's trying to turn us on. I'm going to call my doctor just about that to your teeth. Yeah. How much stuff do I need to be on? Do I need to be on? You don't. Creatine.

Well, creatine. If you saw me with my shirt off, David, you wouldn't be asking my opinion. I saw you in the dink. Camas jump a net. Yes. Did you have to jump that and fall? No. They're not going to let you.

You do that. No. Not their golden boy. But you know who directed the Dink, which is a movie I really love, is Josh Greenbaum, Dana, who did the doc on your show. Great. Incredibly likable, smart guy. Such a talented dude.

Yeah, and sweet. Yeah, he runs a great set. Yeah. Yeah, he doesn't have a mean bone. He's like, he must be, must be happy you do it take. You see Josh there. Yeah, every time. Yeah.

Yeah. The hard part is when he comes and he's not liking it. How does he express that? Oh, great, great. You want to try it again different? You want to try to something crazy. Just do anything you want. I would say different than that, though, right?

Really? Yeah. It's very hard to tell fragile. I'm the fragilist. It's very hard to say, if you could just have Stanley Kubrick Walker, I'm going to go, please do something else. Like, this is not working. Well, he just do 200 takes.

Most directors just go, try to steer you, knowing everything's so fragile. All actors are, you know, little babies. But don't, don't, didn't they run the camera on you? Didn't they do a Will Ferrell on you at times where they just kind of like, okay, which digital will give you like three minutes and you're just sort of do the lines, and then you're just like, and then you do whatever you want. You're talking about for dink? Yeah.

For you, just as a guy from improv and everything. Yeah, we improvised a ton on it. Sean, the writer, who's so funny. was always there. So we always got the script. We always got loose. We kind of cross-covered everything. So everybody,

we could kind of like live in the scenes. Yeah. Yeah. And then you could just have fun. You could just have fun. You could try things. You could like, we can all find the tone together.

The character who plays my sidekick, Aaron Chen. I think he is one of the funniest people I've seen in a long time. I've been a fan of his for years. He's one of those guys where everything he says, I find funny. So with every scene. He's not oversposed.

So you get. It's like a new guy out there getting big laughs. It's a new guy crushing. So you're like, just put everything in a two shot. Let Aaron respond to it. If I have like a monologue before the takeout, say like, if you ever feel like interrupting, just do it. Just see what happens. I will keep pushing.

Oh, man. The writers should like this because the writers ultimately get the credit. So if they see the dink and like it, who wrote that? Even if 10 lines are straight from you, it doesn't matter. We do that movies. It's like, give it to the writer. Who cares? Who cares?

But it's also, we're all on the same exact team. And we are eventually, when everyone gets their egos out of the way, we're going to have to put this in front of an audience. Yeah. If nobody's laughing at that screening, we're all going to hate it. So let's all work together and get those fucking laughs. Get them more. Like, I think movies, I like a movie that has heart to it. I like a movie that has like a story engine.

I like the scenes where you got to do some, like, acting. But I also just like the bit. Well, you know, I don't, when Digital first came in, I was doing this crazy movie. I don't have a big resume, but it's like basically just cut it to pieces. So it'd be like Abbott and Costello would be tight on Abbott. Okay, we're coming around to Costello. So when you said two shot, I thought funny, overlapping, interrupting all that. I was just watching a clip of Caddyshack this morning.

And I realized there's this whole scene of Chevy Chase in the main caddy. That whole segment of like, like I got a problem. But he goes, like, you're on drug, you take drugs every day. I don't know what it could be. That's all without any edits. It's a beautiful oneer. And I'm like so much shit now. If they want to do oneers, it's so filmic that all the directors caring about the DP is how it looks.

And you're like, I want it to look good too. Nobody wants to make something for someone's phone. If it's not funny, who cares that it's no edit? And the DP will say, let's do another take, even though it was perfect. because there's dapple I want to get and you go, yes, we hit the funny part. I don't care what it's like.

It works. It works. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I hate when it gets too choppy. I hate when it's so clearly the comedy is all from editing. All the laughs come like from the reaction of like an extra standing there.

Yeah. You're like, yeah, but let the scene be funny by the rhythm. Yeah. And the lighting's weird. But it's like some old lady with purple hair being like, er.

Like, let them. Let the performances live or die. If you like it, you like it. And if not, it's not a movie for you. Listen, you guys know how much I love multitasking. That's what everyone's always stopping me and asking me about. Lately, my secret weapon's been Amazon Music.

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Yeah, so I figure you're from the beginning talking about all this stuff. So I started, yeah, I came up doing improv and all that stuff. Yeah. And then when I started getting in the game a little bit, the goal was always to produce and to,

make the stuff with the same like with people as opposed to just being an actor for hire so the jobs i'm going to take i like being part of the whole group i did the same thing you and theo do spade where i've self-financed a lot of indies i like that whole game of it um i like that self-reliance which one yeah yeah but those but also all the movies with joe swanberg drinking buddies that we did together at a lot sun never sets those are ones we produce we produce we finance, we put together. So I like that more than... It could be a fun showdown.

What do you say to young people listen to this right now, like, in terms of taking the reins like that? I mean, what kind of budget and what kind of risk or was it just exhilarating to go, we'll make it, we'll pay for it. I mean, David knows now. I mean, it seems like the nightmare

when you're controlled was in a movie and you know it sucks. And there's no charisma between you and the director of this and I have. You know, so you're doing it yourself. So you were making yours, I mean, how do you, when do you first do that? Is it really bold? You make it for like 20 grand or how do you get into that game?

Well, it started for theater where we would go and you would write a show. Like I was in a group called the Midwesterners, which we were doing and we would tour the country with it. And so everything was about this little show that we would like take to a theater and have like nine people in the audience and be like, well, it's nine more than we had yesterday. You're like building this little fucking grinding it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rinding it out. And so I've always viewed movies the same way and TV the same way.

So sometimes you jump onto a monster and it's fully produced by a big studio and it's fun. But the dink came to be, Sean and I, the writer, were just having lunch. And he pitched the idea there was nobody on. Stiller liked the idea but wasn't attached. So he and I started developing it. then Stiller came on board to produce. Then we just built it piece by piece until we had a movie. So even though we didn't finance that one,

it's a smaller movie that Apple made seem bigger. Right. But it's a bigger victory that you got together and got it to the point where Ben took it more seriously. Exactly right. It's me and me and Sean has in lunch. It's like, okay, now I like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, he pitched to me.

He goes, what do you know about pickleball? I said nothing. He goes, what do you think about tennis? I go, I'm not, I'm not into it. But then he goes, so I got the movie for you. And then he told me the arc where it's my character, it gets injured. I start playing pickleball to recover. I start playing with these older women.

And then he's like, then there becomes a friendship that gets a little bit more than a friendship. And I was kind of going like, yeah. And then he pitched a scene where my character makes a move on her and she passes. And I thought she was going to pass because of the age difference. And when he said, and I go, why is she pass? And he goes, because she's not sexually interested in. you. I was like, oh, that's not something I heard where, you know, it's a big age difference. And she's like, I can't. And I'm like, who cares about the age difference? So you're older.

So what? And she's like, no, it's not that. I don't physically want to have sex with you. You're grossing me out. That is so funny to me. That's a very funny turn. You know. Because we don't normally see that they be backpedaling. It's not that. No, no. You're repulsed. Get out. I don't feel weird because it's me and Mary Steenberg. Her vibe is I don't feel weird that I'm three decades older. You naked grosses me out. I'm used to that scene with like Alice and Bree and me. But I'm like, oh, that's so much funnier.

And I thought, all right, we have a big third act. We've got that. I'm like, this is enough to build. And then we spent about a year on the script together. And then, you know, Mary's very pretty also on top of the movie. She's striking. She's so good in the movie. Yeah, she's always good.

person as I've ever worked with. Yeah, I remember Jack Nicholson Western was there coming out film in the 7th. Oh, really? Yeah. Jack directed. I think so. And she was popped. You know, it was like, what was it called, Dana? Come on.

Heather. Very simple. Jack, that was where Jack as a cowboy really took to the next level of being able to eat in a movie and make it amazing. You know, well, I get. You know, it's so fantastic. But what I was going to ask you is like, this cast is pretty stout.

I mean, did Apple call on the big guns? Are these friends of yours? I mean, Chloe Feynman and Austin Wall. I mean, Ed Harris. Ed Harris was amazing. So Apple came on after. We made this movie independently. So we just kind of called out.

We just called people, asked them to show up, send them the script. And then when it was done, we screened it. And then Apple came on board. So, like, Chloe was, you know, I think I reached out to her on. Instagram, to be honest. Ed Harris, I don't know how we got to him, but he was so, it was so fun doing scenes with him because he had never done a comedy.

And he was so, you know, Ed Harris is legitimately scary, at least for my generate, like, I know Ed Harris from the press tour of history of violence where you guys have seen that clip where he's like, run out of violence! Did he like, punch you something and throws it?

Yes. I was like, that's fucking, well, him walking into that coffee shop with the sunglasses is a work of art in itself. Yes. Just with no lines. And Vigo Morrison, it's like, well, we don't want any trouble. And the way he's like, yeah, that movie is.

Yeah. He's old school in the way that's so great on set. You know, Hollywood has just changed so much. But he's fucking ripping unfiltered cigarettes. And I'm like, thank you for doing this, man. Thank you for literally spoken in unfiltered. And then coming in. And then nailing the scene and me.

and like, this is how you do it, man. I really saw him throw that for just a second. Yeah, it was the fucking cool. I would, I would be scared and feel stupid reading a scene, thinking he's going, what have I done? You know, because you're in scene and you're like, hang on. I don't know it yet, but I'll get there. And he's like, well, what's really embarrassing is when you're yucking it up for your

director friend. who I, Josh and I have been close for years. And our inside jokes have gotten a point where they're just gross to watch. But I'm sometimes doing bits just for Josh next to Ed Harris. And then Ed Harris, it's like looking over me and I'm in the middle of like, Josh. And then I'm like, I'm going to be eating supper. Never mind. And you just have to go like, it's humiliating.

I'm not like you. I know you hate me and you should hate me. You should. did he tell any did he suddenly go uh you know me and robert mitch or whatever you know the old movie or store did he ever regale you with any he was never he was never that guy although i wish he was but speaking of being that guy now i got a transition really fast while i got you and so the early farley movies with you guys did together were so and for like I loved that.

And Farley was the guy for me and you guys together. What was it like? I've heard you guys in interviews being like he was the funny. But for my generation, it was like we all wanted to be with him. And then we all got to be you in our eyes where you were like carrying the thing. And then he's been, what was it really? And I've watched all the fucking little documentaries about you two guys together. But what was it like?

I mean, he was sort of a bit of a tournament. coordinator just at S&L with Danes in love with Dana because he comes to Dana. Yeah, of course. Dana is the lady. I loved him immediately. I said to my wife, I've been on the show five years when he came around. I said, I invited Chris Farley over. He's new on the cast, you know, when he was like bolt down the lamps and tables.

Hey, I'm going to stop in here for a second. I got a six-pack of tall Budweisers anyway, never seemed anything but fun and likeable and sweet. but David, David and Chris were this. So speak to that. We did cone heads, which is the first one, and we were just both in it together, just excited to be in a movie. And Lauren was like, I'm going to read a list of 37 cast members that will be in this movie. Read it if you want. Adam Sandler, Chris Farley, David Spay, Dan Akron.

So we all, if you watch Conan's, we're all peppered through it. But Chris had kind of a funny little boyfriend part. of course he was great in it and then we got to do Tommy Boy and Black Sheep and then we had another one kind of ready that would have been next and that's when everything went sideways but man yeah everything was just front row just watching him rehearse watching him you know and you kind of don't know at the time

this won't be forever because he was a hard part of here but he would show up I was worried at the beginning and then I started to go maybe it's just me I couldn't do that I couldn't drink that much. Do all that. I think in terms of that, the one thing I've learned is a young man who's nearly 50 is when we look back at stuff, it's so clear.

But when you are in it, it is not obvious. So people look back at something that happened where they'll be like, nobody did that. You're like, it wasn't clear at the time. Like I had a dear friend who killed himself. And in looking at it, as soon as he did, I went, yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He told me every fucking sign for 10 years. I missed every cue.

So I know if I was with a guy like, finally, I would go, I can't live and drink like that. But he fucking can. He's got a steal. David, this is a question I've never asked you. His last year on SNL with you guys, when you and Sandler and he were sort of peeking as a cast, wasn't he kind of clean for a period of time?

He definitely did not seem off the reservation. on Tommy boy. No, he had waves and he was doing good. I think he was off to do ninja. He got so much money that did not help. No, I never. Any time anybody's got any demons, the worst thing. And I don't see it enough. You, so fame is one thing. And it's my favorite thing is watching. It's ugly guys who start sleeping with too many women. And all of a sudden you start going like, you're getting too vain for your looks, brother. And then the other one is people with demons who get. get money, you go like, oh no.

Your salary should be that of a working class carpenter. You shouldn't have this much money, man. And he was a working class, you know, Wisconsin guy. And then when it got up to Tommy Boy and Blacksheep weren't a lot of money, but when it got up to like cable guy where they're like, we're going to have you lead a movie. And then that was $3 million. He was going to be the cable guy.

Yeah. And he had to give that up to do Black. sheep because they had a deal with. How was he treating you then when he found that out? Was he pissed or was he fine with it? He didn't love it because we were we were, but we're riding off Tommy Boy. We're just like, we're just doing Tommy Boy again with a different title. It's fun. Let's do it. I mean, everyone's fine with it. We all know the scam. We're just going to be out there acting stupid again. Why wasn't it Tommy Boy too? I mean, most usually people. That's exactly. story. Fred wrote a good story about it was political, whatever, but it just turned into

once that came into the mix, like we were already almost, you know, we were set with a green, our movies are greenlit first, and then they write them. So Fred wrote it. And then it was like, well, he had a two-picture deal. I didn't. So he had to do it. And then Paramount's telling me to do it. And then Lauren's telling me to do it. And then Chris goes, You know, if you don't think it's ready, we can always do it next summer. It's so tough because he had his hair slick back. And I'm like, I'm seeing your strategy, my king, but I can't play a lot. Obviously, it was so obvious that I don't know.

Do you know I know about cable guys? And so I go, I know. I just have to read it. And I just have to say, if I think it's close enough, I'll do it. I have to say yes, yes. I said, and he's like, yeah, and if it's a no-go, that's great. And I'm like, okay, I sort of know where you're quietly steering me. But it was pretty good.

And Fred Wolf was one of my best friends who's writing it. And we would all write together. So that was who all did the first one. And so when we got to the second one, and it was already the momentum we're doing it that summer. and there's sherry lansing involved from paramount and it was like and i read it and i was like i kind of like this story and you know he's like fuck because cable guy and then went to jim carey you know and jim carey got 20 and that was the first time i think anybody got 20 oh my god and he was on a two-picture deal so he just got what his first deal he got less than me even worse

Really? Because I didn't have a set deal. And I think he made a deal because of he was in rehab. And it was like, and he was like, can I do anything? I want to do movies. And they're like, we'll do a two-picture deal. He's like, I'd love it, please.

I'm on the straight and narrow. And he would do great for a long time. I don't remember big problems during Tommy Boy or Black Sheep or anything with drinking. It was always like in between and the boredom and the. money and and and wasn't it you know everything those two though and two famous and too interesting and everyone wanted to hang out with them you know he has had definitely magnetized people uh expressos between uh takes like 20 of them right well the first day was bad because we were like i'm like i'm no doctor i don't think you can keep this up a thermos too much and then just shots of you know just but

like addicts, you know, they switch over to caffeine or whatever, whatever. And then it, you know, I think he got it to where we knew how to do a movie after that. We didn't know on Tommy Boy how to pace it out. And we were giving everything in wide shots in Masters.

And then they'd push in and we're like, oh, we're still doing this scene? They're like, yeah, everything's unusable so far. I'm like, I didn't know. It's already lunch. We're not using it. I'm literally so tired. 5 p.m. They're like,

okay, Spade, this is the one we're going to use. I'm like, what's going on? Use the one where my back was facing camera. That was my best stuff.

You know what's funny is Brian Denny he came in to play his dad and he's like an old exactly what you like. Yeah. Yeah, guy from fucking. Everyone smokes. And he's like, hey,

yeah. So the first, first wide shot, Chris is doing cartwheels. We're all fucking dropping paper doing our, you know, corny shit over and over. and then Brian goes,

hey, what the fuck are we doing? This is a wide shot. Move on. What are we doing? No one's using that. No. Yeah, he goes, we're going to use it. We open the scene and we close.

Yeah. And he goes, are you killing these guys? This is what we're doing? No wonder these guys are falling apart. We're both like this. Because we're flying back and forth, Messing L. Exhausted.

So, and Farley's obviously being very physical. So he kind of helped tone it down a little for that. Where we started to go, we were more aware. We were just like doing what we're told. Another take. Another take. Don't complain.

Don't complain. And I've learned how to complain. That's really the big benefit of what I took away. Farley is. Farley is everything. It's everything is advertised. Everything. You couldn't take your eyes off them.

In the trailer, we saw you do some, you went over. Was that you going over the tennis net in the wide shot? There's some pratfalls. I'm going back to you and love you, Chris Farley. Well, so no. So, no. So the, when I. When I came up, my dream was Farley.

And then when I moved to, and then, but I got a question for you too, Dana. I want to get to before we go. But when we, when I came to L.A., I was 27 or 28. I had done a lot of, I did a lot of years on stages. And I didn't have a commercial agent. And when I got out to L.A., I was a caterer. And I went to a big party at Endeavor, one of the big places in 2004. and all the big celebrities were there and I was catering.

And I realized, I'll never compete with like the big crazy funny. I was like, everybody's type is so defined that if I'm like just chubby, I'm like, you can't just be like chubby and sweaty and be the big guy. That was like, that's a 300 pounder who does ballet. He's going to beat you in that job. So you, for me, that beginning was starting to hone in of like, all right, well, where is my zone? And so for something like the dink, what I love about it is and why I love that big ensemble is, I like carrying something from the beginning to the end and making sure it tracks.

And then I like people coming in and crush it. I like going from like a scoring guard to a point guard. I like both equally. Oh, definitely. You hate that. That's thrilling when someone comes in and came out. cameo and hits it. And they're just being so funny.

Yeah. We got this. And you're sitting there and you're like, oh my God. And it's why I like producing because I don't feel as an actor, one of us is going to pop and get a huge opportunity. There's a million projects now. So like that old world of like, we're all competing for one slice of pie. I'm like, that's over. Nobody's eating any of this pie.

By the way, how tall are you? How tall are you? Five, ten. Well, I was just thinking. In terms of physicality, Chris, Chris was like 5, 6, probably. Chris Farley? Yeah, he was not tall. He's just big.

Wait, Chris Farley was 5.6? Don't you think, David? I would say 5, 7, 5, 8, maybe at the back. I was definitely taller than him. No. But, you know, you can, if you're, he wasn't, if you're tall, it's much harder to those pratfalls like Chevy or something. Totally.

By the way, Chris Farley being 5, 6 is the kid. I think he was. I don't want to go on record, but I kind of thought, maybe 5-7. He is so, one of the most likable guys I've ever watched on screen just got more likable. You're like, Ed Harris is 410. You can't tell. Bobby De Niro's 3-11. She's 25.

Scorsesies 1-9. Scorsesee 1-9 with his good boots on, with his boots on. Panning six foot 10. It's Hollywood's crazy. It is true. But you know, is 5'5. He's a little guy. And Dustin Hoffman.

And you go, oh. Oh, I see. But yeah, Chris Farley was something else. Does Ed Harris ever go, what if you kick me in the nuts and I fell off a ladder? You're like, in this scene? He's like, I'm just trying to brainstorm. And you're like, what if you had to tell him his ideas weren't funny? That would be horrible.

Never. Well, what it was more so was Ed really sticks to the script. And, you know, I'm a believer in. old school. Yeah. But once you get it and, you know, when you're talking about doing stuff in the wides, I'm really into the shots. So once we've gotten my single saying the lines three different ways, if we're shooting

again with the same shot, I feel why not give another option? It's an and or. And so you already got the other ones. But what would be scary is making direct eye contact with Ed where we're very close and not saying that I'm going to go off book. And saying experimental tone stuff that a lot didn't make the movie. And seeing a man's eyes as you're doing a bit that isn't landing in front of a crew of 80, being like, I hate you.

What are you doing? Why are you doing this? I know. I'm trying to think of my next line. Why are you talking about gators in Florida? And then afterwards going, what was that? and you go like, I just thought I would try. And he's like, oh, how sick me to hear.

What was that? Yeah. Or his face just does it. He just goes like those. And Josh goes like, I liked it. I would say let's do another one like that. And I would be like, you know, when Meryl Streep would try to pull that shit on me. Imagine him on the deer hunter going, let me just throw one out.

He was a funny one for me. Yeah. I'm going to do something with a stair trap on this one. Instead of saying, Mao, I'm going to say, no. Let me try this lighter. That was from the deer hunter, if anyone's paying attention. And then, Carvey, just to go to you for a second, sorry that I'm doing this, but, you know,

I've just watched you guys for too many years as a fan. You and Myers, first of all, you on SNL was right my wheelhouse. When I was coming, it was like you, you and Hartman, you guys were just the kigged. and then when you guys did Wines World, I was part of the age where it exploded the universe of comedy. Yeah, you'd be the right age. I remember watching it being like, it was like a before and after where you were like,

oh, we have this in our world now. Wow. Yeah. Well, that's very nice to hear. You know what I mean? Like, there's like certain things that like for every generation, for my group, we were all those little hacks being like, swing the amount of time somebody dramatically did a swing in school um what was that experience the moment you knew it really hit what was the the real dynamic with you and mike like there

was all this stuff of like they're so great together than they weren't i was like all that stuff i've always tried to find i'm so interested in yeah well we you know i wasn't we weren't really we were just in a sketch you know together and you're you're in someone else to sketch you, it's kind of, it's their production, basically. All he said to me was, you'll be my sidekick, your name's Garth, and you, and you dig Wayne. So that was it. So I saw his thing. He was going to have a brown wig, so I just wanted blonde, and then it was the character that I did, the tactile, this guy that's telling me that was based on my brother Brad, which you would see in the very first sketch I did on SNL. I did kind of that character. So I just used that,

glasses on put it on and then we're in the movie and it was getting used to that there was some conflict over what what are we avon costa oh you know but um they let me kind of go in and kind of weave in little things for garth throughout the film but it was wayne's world and then it did feel good you know here's going to what you're talking about filming we didn't have much time right so we get on the top of the car we're going with bugs are you attracted to bugs bunny with bugs bunnies in a dress you know that thing. It was a throwaway, 45 minutes, mostly two shots. Then the sequel, we had like two days, you know, 25 angles.

You know, the money really poised in a second. Yeah, they built this, uh, Wayne and Garst loft and it was like a half million dollars. Comedy it. Yeah. Because you have the first one was quick and easy. Penelps Fierrez, you, when I was doing a little piece of business that call it, uh, she'd say, okay what are you going to do here we're doing what's the only you're going to do she goes could you do it five seconds faster that was the only direction from her so i can keep it in the movie but we we were

shocked when it opened big and then kept going week after week and the fan mail was stacking up and awards were being sent to us and stuff and that was just sort of a fever dream you know basically yeah i would walk by dana's mailbox at s nil by the uh p a we check in on the 17th floor and everyone had a cubby hole spade barley sandler sniler like five letters and well they just smashed in with all these letters from fans then they brought in a barrel i think to the flow mike and i and they're like spade can we borrow your cubby just to put some overflow it just hit like crazy yeah and it was uh i just really liked the character i was when we're together were a nearly perfect duo.

Because they complimented each other. It was the same thing that happens in scenes to this day where you go like, when two people are playing the same rhythm or the same game, they can work. But when you have a natural opposite, it's literally stuff that, you know, if you go back to you at Farley or you and Myers, when we're putting the ding together, when I was looking for the sidekick, the reason it's Aaron Chen is we don't share the same frequency ever. Yeah, right. So if you're sharing somewhat of the same.

frequency. It's fun, but it's now a hangout scene. Yeah. I was like, I really like it when it's these two characters like one another, but they're just playing opposite. They're not, it's almost like they're on different planets, even though the scenes working. Yeah. And I was like, for me, that's how you get read, that's how you can be in a two shot and live. Even the way both people are listening should be funny because you're like, they even listen differently. Yeah. And that's that's Abbott and Costell. That's Lewis and Martin. That's, you know, Laurel and Hardy. And then obviously,

Spade and Farley, you know, just different. What did you guys think the glue that made Phil Hartman, Phil Hartman is like an actor? So obviously, you know,

people talk about him, or my generation talks about what made him great. And they'll say, you know, he fully committed, he could do a little bit of everything. But what would you guys say

in terms of like, as an actor? Like, what was it about Phil that you could kind of take from and go forward. If you had to work with it, because I feel like I don't really know what people are like to act with unless I'm in a scene with them because you could feel in someone's eyes

who's present, who's thinking about the next thing they're going to say, who's aware of the cameras. And then certain people you step in a scene with and you go like, oh, you're a fucking gold mind to act with. What was that experience working with him, being in scenes with him that kind of made Phil Hartman, Phil Hartman in your guys' opinion? Well, for me, I had never. done sketch comedy until I got on

SNL. I'd only done stand-up. So Phil, in the very first sketch, is playing a game show host. And he was 38, and he was the king of the groundlings. He was a legend. But he was like, I don't know if I want to do SNL. He was already so locked in

and so confident and just knew exactly what he was doing and hit it every time. And then Jan Hooks was really skilled, too. And they had a lot of stuff together. So I just learned a lot from it. I was doing more flight of fancy characters with wigs and voices and trying to land those ways. But with Phil, we called him the glue because he kind of whatever you wanted, he could do it.

And one of the most fun things I ever did was Johnny Carson with Phil as Ed McMahon. That was just so much fun because talk about opposites. I wasn't, for the first time on the show, I'm not really trying to be funny. I'm just trying to sit in that attitude. A gentleman, children, and then you know, correct. It was a perfect rhythm of funniness. So Phil, you know, just, you know, think about them all the time, you know, just a genius. I remember Dana more like him walking around 17 while writing and not having a care in the world.

Got his fisherman magazine. Well, I guess. How are you? And then you're like, Phil, I'm writing this thing. Can you play Russian accent? He's like, yeah. He just could. He was the least.

He was the least. He stressed of all of us because he was so good. He'd go to read through and 44 sketches. Okay, here we go. And then he's good and all of them. He's like, all of them. He's like, all right, I'm going to take off, go eat. And you go, are you?

It's just, it's a confidence, talent. And B, it was sort of like just so natural to it when others me. We had to work hard. You know, you had to really get into it. But he was, he was a Renaissance man. He didn't really care about show business that much, even though he's really at it. He'd be looking at Evan Root. See this Evan Root motor here?

That's a 4-50. And he bought Scoobie gear. He became a pilot, bought a plane. He wanted me to go on the plane. I can't with a single engine. Lovitz went with him. We went to Catalina. So Phil's a pilot.

He's got two boats, the Boston Whaler. He goes, come on and see my sailboat. And we're sailing and it's a beautiful day in L.A. And then we see smoke plumes coming from the city. It was the Rodney King riots. Well, we better get back to the dark, fellas. Lovin said one of the best bits of a, he did an episode of New Girl with me and Max Greenfield and I were in scenes with him.

And he was just running the show with bits and Max and I were just got over tired and happened way too much. And then Lovin starts going, I'm not being treated enough with respect that I deserve. And we're like, we agree. And he goes, it's right there on my title. I'm a guest of this show. And I'm the star. I've not been able to see guest stark.

I'm like, right, he's our guest, period. And our star. He scores and everything. And he comes with ideas. So if you're ready for it, he will switch you up. Well, he's another one of those, you know, there hasn't been another John Love. I mean, just wherever he came, that voice. You know, those personalities and that old Estonle.

Yeah. It was like John Thane. Actually being there when I got there, I'm like, I did kind of know not everyone is this good. Like Farley obviously jumps out, but there's Mike and Dana. Dennis is one of my favorite comedians ever. Nealyn's a king of that dry shit. So everywhere I'm going around, I'm like, it's Chris Rock's unbelievable stand-up. So I got out of there and I'm like, at least the good news is not everyone is this fucking good.

because now I have a chance out in the real world. This isn't every show. Yeah, you can't go, oh, some people are just okay at everything, you know. Yeah, totally. But when you're, it makes you try to be better because everyone was just good writer, good performer. Yes. I had that when I first moved to, when I first moved to LA, the first thing I did was a sketch who called Derek and Simon on HBO and Bob Odenkirk was the director. Oh, it's so funny, Jake.

Oh, come on. I loved Mr. Show. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. But that was the beginning, incredible. Mr. Show exploded my brain. Yeah. And when he would give direction was the beginning of me being like, oh, there's levels to this game.

And I'm just at like the Improv Olympic. Because you would look around at the Improv Olympic and I'd be like, there's a lot of hacks here. Like, I think I'm going to make it. You know what you do, Jay. Is it like if you're, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but like when I would be at dinner with these guys at the show. and like you in that situation. And Bob was a writer with me and Conan and Greg Daniels, these guys. So I'm thinking of stuff.

And then I get to the point where I go, oh, no, if I'm going to comment on this dinner joke, I have to do the joke after that joke because these guys are all seeing that one coming. And so you start to go, they're at a different level of a game. Yes. And I'm like, oh, I was funny with my friends. This is different. everyone's too quick and you start to go. So you start thinking of weirder ideas for sketches because you go,

everyone's going to go on. I got to find a way in. Everybody's good. I'm going to tell Smigel that and he'll be like, uh, right. And then he goes that. I don't know. I don't know if I'd write that. And you go, oh, that was my great idea this week.

Okay. But then you start to watch. It's real quiet. And you go, oh, I have to get, I just have to get better. And what you're learning. What I like about it. And what, yes, what you just said there was, why I fell in love with L.A. so much,

and I'm not an L.A. hater. I love it. But it was for me, when I got out to L.A. and I saw real talent, I was like, oh, if I want to play this game, I have to keep getting better. And that is a thing that I'm like, it's so exciting to go.

As long as you want to play, if you want to seat at the table, you have to keep improving because, yes, there's a lot of hacks that you don't know how they get certain things. But then there are other people you're like, that motherfucker is playing at a high level and thinking at a high level.

Odin Kirk's a great example. And he's so sneaky about it. You would say something, he would laugh and you go, it's really funny. You know what you could do? And then he would pitch you something that was so much smarter. And you go like, I would like to do that, my man. And he's from Mr. Shows.

You're like, this is the guy that's doing all the ones I'm laughing at. He's the guy doing the thing that I love. Yeah. And that was a great beginning to go. And now it's like a journey to you find that talent. and then hook into it for as long as you can. And you're like, oh,

when you get to be around somebody who's got that, you're like, what a fucking joy the game can be. Well, yeah, you're, you took, I mean,

the path you've taken to get where you're at is very cool. Thanks, but you didn't wait. You know, you just did it on your own. And the fact that you're producing this movie, I don't know, it's very admirable.

It's really smart. And I agree with that. My first time at a comedy show, period, I was 20 years old, just open mic, 20 people in the audience. Robin Williams was the third guy up before Mork and Mindy. Totally. The first three came up.

I thought I started to make some notes. I might be able to do this. Hold on. Yeah. And then he came up and I literally folded it up the notes I had and put it in my pocket. Because I thought maybe there's 300 of these guys. But every time he came to visit, I go, I've got to get better. I can't do that.

What you start doing, at least for me, is you start loving people like that. Yeah. You're like, you're the reason I'm still like, this game can be really great. But then once you've hit a few of those like early on goals, money, you start going like, why am I playing? Right. Yeah. What is the thing? And you go like, oh, there's something to getting better working hard being in it.

Like even if the whole project doesn't know. In the vicinity of these guys. Yeah. Like if you can sit and talk to Robin Williams and have them. chuckle at something and a half hour you go her am i even in the vicinity of something that you would think is funny like that's that's the weird thing is you go i think i'm getting closer to the people i think you're great that kind of thing that's and it's always people better once you once you cross the threshold of like this is my job i i

make a basic wage i have an apartment after that it's like it's like trying to catch the wind sorry for the knowledge, but you can always wind down comedy. Something could always be juicier and better and just, you know, so it is a game that never gets boring, really. You know, I mean, you sound very excited about your movie. You're excited about it. Well, I think, you know, honestly, what I try to do in my career is do a nice mix of all different types of

types of movies and types of projects. And dink as a movie, we did what we wanted to do. we wanted to make a movie that almost felt like yacht rock of a movie, if that makes sense. Like I wanted it to be enjoyable. I wanted it to be funny. I wanted it to be easy to watch. I didn't want any scenes where you're like, we're going to push the audience here. You know, I don't see.

But there's a lot, you know, the last few years of like what comedians have become and what comedy is. And I'm like, I do believe it is important. I do not believe it is like as important as it all seems right now. I believe that comedy is just what it was for me when I was growing up. It's a fucking great thing to turn on and be distracted and have a great hour and a half. When I watched Cheers growing up, I wasn't like, well, I'm really learning a lot about life in politics, either the left or the right.

Like, thank you for teaching me all those conspiracy theories or, you know, thank you for showing me how bad it. It's like, it made me laugh. Yeah. Oh. And I'm like, it's like a different world. You're like, no politics. Just no nothing.

Just a movie that you. fucking turn. And that's why I was happy the IP is pickleball. Because I'm like, what could be dumber than pickleball is the IP? We're making a fun movie. And so we did. So I'm like so proud of it, happy for people to see it. Well, you're like the first guy to tackle it. And it's great. It's July 24th, Apple TV, which I just did something with. They're great over there. They know they're doing fortune is in it. Who's great. Mary Steenbergin, of course. Yeah. And of course, Andy Roddick. He got him. As your nemesis.

Pat Nosswald's so funny. Pat and Oswald. Yeah, he's always fun. He's always fun. Got it's pretty stacked. Yeah, it's a good luck with everybody. Everybody comes in and crushes. Yeah, great.

Congratulations. We'll look for it and appreciate it. And thanks for all the nice things you said. And we'll talk soon by. We like what people ask us. That's fun chat with you guys. All right. All right, listen, if you're enjoying the fly on the wall, of course,

hopefully you are. Click follow. We don't want to be desperate, but obviously smash that goddamn button on your favorite podcast app. Smash it. Smash. Leave a review, a good one. Leave a five-star rating, nothing else. Whoops.

And maybe even share an episode with a friend. If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please, subscribe, Dana. What do you think? I'm going to tell you this right now. Hear me now. Believe me later. Fly on the Wall, believe it or not, is presented by Odyssey. And executive produced by Hold Forreux.

at Dana Carvey and David Spade, or David Spade and Dana Carvey. We don't write those stuff. Heather Santoro, Greg Holtzman, and Leah Reese Dennis. The show is edited by Evan Cox, with production support from Phil Sweet Tech. Talent Production and Booking by Sophia Lippoor.