Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade - Jim Downey

Episode Date: May 11, 2022

Weekend Update with Norm, presidential parodies, and may god have mercy on your soul with Jim Downey. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up next, former head writer of Sarenite Live, Jim Downey. Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are, whenever we need it. Download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or pay subscription starting at 1299 per month.

Before we get to the great Jim Downey, we just David, who's very close with Norm McDonald, would like to say a few words about his memorial. Yeah, Norm Dana, thank you. We went to a memorial, and I'm only bringing this up because Downey's on today, and we didn't intro for him, but I just wanted to do, because I just went to this thing.

And it was supposed to be more of a celebration. You know, it was kind of a funeral. We never had a funeral for Norm, so it was like a good way to everyone get in the same room. I think it was supposed to be more of a celebration. You know, it was kind of a funeral. We never had a funeral for norms. It was like a good way to everyone get in the same room. I think it was called a mommormiel, but I thought that wasn't too catchy and they shouldn't trade market. It's not catchy like Toyota thought, you know what I mean? So we had, it was supposed to be like a light-hearted thing, but you know, those things do get

heavy. Yeah. No matter how fun you want it to be, and no matter how much norm would have wanted it to be light. And so we all gathered. The only interesting thing was it was, I think they're doing some sort of documentary for Netflix because it was filmed. And that's, you know, they want to speak and that's harder when people are filming it, as you know, because it's a serious thing. And it's embarrassed, it's hard to speak anyway in front of people. The funny part as you know, because it's a serious thing, and it's embarrassed, it's hard to speak anyway in front of people.

The funny part, you know, so Conan went up, he kind of hosted it. The audience was peppered with like, you know, SNL people, writers, comedians, David Tell, Bill Murray from SNL, Sandler, Conan, I mean, any smigal, all these people are everywhere. So, a little intimidating, but all friends, and Dana, I don't know if I told you this, so Conan speaks, he brings up Lori Jo, who's, you know, arms right hand man, been with him

forever. She's the greatest, she set the whole thing up. Ted Sranos had COVID, he couldn't come, and he needs the biggest fan of this whole thing So when I by the time a downy spoke and he was great and then I Went up to speak and there's stairs going up there and Conan goes to shake my hand. I wipe out In front of one on my face. I don't even do any jokes. I don't go Not funny nor I mean I didn't say anything. I just said got up jokes, I don't go, not funny, Norm, I didn't say anything. I just said, got up, went to the stage, did my little speech, four minutes, got off, and then a couple of people, Molly

Shannon, a lot of people spoke, Neelan, and then we went, we were sequestered to another room. Another whole building, where six of us watched his special, that was the interesting part. He did a special day now. So you told me about that. What was it? How did his special happen? Norm. So you know how I used to do those non-alogues

during coronavirus, I sit at my desk. It was like that. He had a microphone in his hand, and Laura Joe was filming him, and he just said, you know, I keep trying to do my special, but he was getting weaker, which we didn't know. And they kept shutting down theaters,

and they wouldn't let him go. And then he goes, I'm just going to run it once, just kind of say it out loud. And then he never got to shoot it. So they said, let's use that and kind of make a documentary. So six of us watched it. It's pretty weird. It's pretty weird. It's pretty weird.

It's pretty weird. It's pretty weird. It's pretty weird. It's pretty weird. It's pretty weird. It's pretty weird. It's pretty weird. It's pretty weird. His room with Laurie Joe with a mic going right. No audience, no nothing. Even speaking at the funeral memorial, it's very hard when there's like a dolly shot, when you're talking and it's like, push in, he might cry. No, no, I'm not crying at this part.

Okay, pull back, pull back. It's definitely something, they filmed the comedy store with Bob Sagitt. I thought that was just odd because I think people at home don't know when you make fun of someone at something like that as a comedian, they probably think it's very mean, but it's all of us just light-heartedly making fun of Norm also saying something sad, you know, whatever. So here we are watching the special Dana and very interesting.

It's about almost an hour. He's got classic norm stuff. Some's a very rough, you know, where people would be offended, which is good. And some stuff just really kills. And some stuff he meanders. But, you know, he hasn't had a chance to polish it or anything.

It's just, I'm gonna run through it. So it's not really, we were discussing that. Would this work in a crowd? Yes. But Norm has his, for what he does, it was perfect. They're, they're going to really like it. And we talked about it, discuss about mostly everything was just positive, of course. And, and excited to be a witness to that. Did you ever get like a wave of just the surrealness of it or a wave of like sort of, it's just so strange to see your friend, you know, knowing that it's gone.

I definitely cried. Yeah. I definitely cried. I didn't at the memorial, but that one, he starts talking about his mom and you're watching a guy and this is the last time I've seen him because I've seen him before that, but it was right before Corona. So I haven't seen him and he looks a little different, you know, and this is the last time I've seen him because I've seen him before that, but it was right before Corona. So I haven't seen him, and he looks a little different, you know, and he's a little gaunt,

and then you hear him talk. And he was pretty sharp. I mean, it wasn't like, he was smoother than my special. Like, he never looked down. I'm like, is he a set list? What is he looking at? How does he know what's coming up? There was like, no, maybe they added it, tighten it up.

But yeah. So, definitely we're seeing and then we talked and then we had that Adam Sandler taping after that. So, which is coming up soon. So, it was a long day. Sandler was in there too. And I just thought it was interesting and I thought people, we finally got to have something

for Norm, we never talked about it ever. I never talked about it. And I'm glad I got to see it. But it was a little bit of a cryer at times, you know. I always like to think when someone's gone that they're still here, I kind of hear their voice in my head sometimes. And I think what they would say about everything. I don't know. I just haven't denial about people being gone. And also, in the last years when I haven't seen. I just I'm into an aisle about people being gone. And also in the last years when I haven't seen him or a lot of people, you just think they're out there,

you just don't see him. You know, like you'll run into him and you're just thinking if Norm was alive, he wouldn't want to be here because it's a odd situation and it's hard to be at those things. But anyway, listen to the, keep listening guys. We're gonna keep talking. Here's our intro to Downey and then Downey talks a lot about work with Norm. He was very tight with him. Yes, there was a lot of very interesting stuff

for guards Norm with Mr. Jim Downey. Jim Downey. Jim Downey. James Downey. Yep. my boss your boss right? In a sense. Yeah, he was a collaborator He was right. He was David's boss. Yeah David only David's contracts would be in seventh to ten day increments Seven to ten minutes. I had one that I had a 12-year contract God would be Phil got a three-year one. I had one that I had a 12 year contract. The day would be filled out a three year one I was shitting. They go we're gonna be they give like two or three million bucks or something for

Phil Harman. When when he reupt when he did the very is last year. He did his initial five because that we and then he had power to do it. I think you might have gone but he stayed or no. I only I only kick his David's always self-deprecating about his time on the SNS and the SNS. Yeah, well, what happened was they were calling the summer and say if you got picked up again

and you didn't know so I'd have delugged my fucking mattress out of my apartment, get out of my apartment, cancel it, come to LA and stay in my other one I shared with someone and then they'd hire me back and I go, fuck, just tell me I'm hired so I don't have to stress the fuck out I have to fly all the way back and get in the park and it's like I wasted even more money and time. So I remember that because at the party you'd say sometimes the Lord Michael's hey I'll see you Monday at the meeting and Lauren goes perhaps and that was chilly and I'd pull Lauren

aside and go Lauren come on I mean David's funny. Would you just sign them up for at least two weeks? I go who's the house Monday? He goes We'll see if you'll know I go why because you might not need to know where should I sit in the Monday meeting room? Should I be up on the couch or should I just go into and style on the floor? You can decide later Marcy would make room for David. I don't know if we have any. Is it Michael Keaton? Who told you that? I go, well, Lauren, I'm on the show.

I have to write for him. Do you? I go, well, I work here, right? Do you? Do you? David's going through that thing of like, am I really on the show not? And he just sort of hangs around the soda machine.

We should have him removed from the premises. Exactly. It was tough out there. So every year I'd get picked up, and I never got more than a one year pickup. So it was tough. So Jim Downey. So Jim Downey, great, great big writer. We didn't say this.

Headwriter, he did first five years of SNL. Lenny went and did the, started the Letterman for five years. So two monster shows in there. And then he returns to SNL as the head writer when I arrived. Yeah. And he was head writer for like 11 years.

Then he wrote, he wrote, update with Norman Donald, stuff like that. He wrote, he has a great resume. He's like this big presence at SNL that maybe some of you aren't as familiar with. So this will be a little different flavor. We do all kind, a lot of people go just go with huge stars like oh guess what fans We're gonna be have some real

Riders we're gonna have people down on the bowels of Merri Dennis that he's one of the he's the second most important person in the history of us now He is there's Lauren and then there's Jim Jimmy such a big powerhouse writer and forming the type of writing we're doing. I had to go to, I had to run by stuff by him all the time. It was very hard to get his attention because the head writer is pulled in every direction. So everyone is trying to get a hold of the head writer to punch up their thing. Yeah, he did all those letterman bits at the beginning.

So he's great and he's kind of a rakeless and he didn't know how to do Zoom. So it's great we got him on to talk. He'd never Zoom, never been on a podcast, never listened to a podcast. Yeah, that's true, right? So he broke the seal on three things in our little time with Jim. Yeah, anyway, so I got another joke.

Say, waste it here. Okay, you know what I'm doing? I'm not doing all the math here. so I get another joke. Say, waste it here. Okay. You know, Daniel got one of here. This is just a joke. Okay. Okay. So here's how you could, here's if a girl's having a orgasm. And if they, if they're having a medium one,

they say, how they're back me up with this. They say, oh my, oh my, oh my. And if they're having a really good one, they go, oh my, oh my, oh my. And if they're having a really good one, they go, oh God, oh God, oh God. And if they're not having one, they go, oh, Dana, oh, Dana. I put you in the room. Yeah. I'm guy. Why I heard this from reliable sources that when David is getting with the woman and he has an orgasm, he screams his own name. God damn it.

What do you want? What the hell? That's why I do it in this room. It sounds proof. It's funny. You just when you hear these things, you go, well, how many orgasm verbal jokes do I have in my head? That's the only one I remember.

That's the only one I just heard it, because someone did it to me. So I had to do it to you. Even though you're a happy married man, I just said, this is funny. I'll use Dana. I was first I me. So I had to do it to you. Even though you're a happy married man, I just said, this is funny, I'll use Dana. I was first I laughed, then I was kind of delighted, then I was offended.

This is all within three tenths of a second. Then I thought, I'll come back with my, yeah, his own name. Yeah. And now we're even. Well, what are we talking about? Even Stephen, I hate to be named Stephen. I mean, you even Stephen.

That would be the worst. God, what a fucking nightmare name to have. Now we got Downey. So Downey, sorry, we went off track there, but that was a fucking real win. Jim Downey, a very interesting person, you could give him any subject in the world and leave the room.

He literally goes to libraries at Yale, goes in and just reads. You know what a nerd? What a nerd. What a genius nerd. Hey, what are you reading? Nerd. I'm reading agricultural manifestation,

early colonial doubts. That's nerdy. Ha ha ha. Half the people there are Harvard and Yale and Cambridge. We were kind of, I was, I was, I want to ask him, he thought I was stupid when I joined because I went to Scottsdale Community College, but I think he never answered the questions. I think that's a yes. You didn't know what manifest destiny was and I remember they just, the riders were getting in the room, they laughed for hours. You were it's paid, didn't know what manifest destiny was. Oh, I know, I'd walk around with the Thessauras, mostly for Dennis.

All right, so did Jim Downey's gonna talk, and you're gonna listen, so do it. Dana, we're gonna put a pin in that story. Downey, my boss. Robert Downey, Jr.s. Uncle. Yeah. Yeah, let's just say so. Is that real? That's we've agreed.

Everyone's all parties have agreed. That's the official line. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I'm related to Philip Carvey from from East Toronto, but there's no no, it's a disaster that. No. There's only five Carvies in North America. You've never met another car. Absolutely. Have never met another car. But we're too, weren't you born in Montana? Yes. Okay. See, I remember

I remember things. I know. Because people think I canadian people say that Canadian were mad out of the Phoenix area. Easy. Scott's still easy. He's got a memory. You know, Dana, Jim, when I got hired, Jim was the head writer of SNL. He's got a million credits we'll get to, but just quickly when I got hired with Schneider,

we, I think Jim, you walked us through, you know? You had to walk us and say, here's your legal pad, here's a wooden desk. That number two pencil. That number two pencil. That number two pencil. That number two pencil. That number two pencil.

I would come from, but I had to come up with them and you go, and then you sit at this desk and stare at that white wall and you sit at that one. And we're going to go from there. Everything I told you was true. Oh, that was true. No more than the truth. I know and went overboard with what to do there.

Jim came over to my office after that and said, I told him, I told him good, like you said. Anyway, that's inside baseball. But Jim and I had a kind of an inside joke about newcomers, totally kidding. It was part of the hazing. We all had to go through it except me because I was started in there. You were the original hazer at Harvard. Did you ever get pink bellied at Harvard? Pink bellied now. Most of the brutal stuff, the caning and the paddling had been phased out. But I always thought it was an insane practice of just this psychosocial, homoerotic hazing that would happen in men's dorms. I just thought, no, no, thank you. Kissing the gunner's daughter, it was called.

Really? God, I don't know. And that was a blowjob. That sounds more illicit than anything you've ever said. No, it's not, no, that's true. I was at ASU, I was at ASU gym, which is a college, it's not hard for me. You had Frank Kush running your case.

I had Frank Kush knocking people around and I was getting hazed with they spray painted a number on you and you run around it for the morning and bring everyone a river rock and then do shots and then they put oil and paprika on me. When they pushed this button they sprayed on you you had to say something they tell you to say. I was a little bit of a follower at the time I feel. I wasn't really a leader and I did it

and then I finally had to quit because I go, this isn't getting me as much as I thought it would out of life. At all. I went up hell. I just, a river rock, is that, what is that? Well, when you're, this is great. You're listening to the whole story

and you pick something you like out of it River rocks are there's rivers in Arizona that are by Arizona state and they don't have revenue Water in them. So it's mostly rocks and at the bottom. There's little smooth rocks from the Flooding and rivers and what we have so you just have to climb down the river, grab them, and then carry them in a bucket. They're super heavy. And the idea is, it's a fucking drag. I think that's the idea. See, I thought here, I thought River Rock had to be code for something filthy or... Or for code.

Or for code. That's what your mind thinks. That's the answer. I'm sorry. The creative mind. Now I feel, I owe the entire state of Arizona and the policy for that, and especially Arizona State University and the sun devils.

Yeah, I love Arizona station. Yeah, should we, should we go a little bit? Like I don't know how much we can't cover the life of Jim Downey, but we can say he was a very, very young man out of Harvard and was hired to write on Saturday Live with the original cast. That's right. Yeah, that's fair, right?

That's the known more than the truth. Bill Murray and I were hired the same week, so we were put in an office together and stayed there for Jesus. Yeah. Yeah, cool. What would your thoughts, do you remember like, okay, to me, Bill Murray was always so and stayed there for Jesus. Yeah. Yeah, cool. What would your thoughts do you remember like, okay, to me Bill Murray was always so intimidating.

I really like him, but he just kind of scared me. Was he always like an intimidating figure because of his confidence or something, right? And when he knew you, if he saw you today, would he remember? I sure would know being a nice shirt. Oh no, the very good friends. I know, they're very good. I sure have been. I'm of the invitations always there to, hey, let's goof around.

And Billy is not, he's more like in life, he's super friendly person. He's a guy who you walk down the street with him and he'll talk to everyone except like celebrity, paparazzi or stalkers. He has a really good sense of when someone's just a real person and someone's a pro, you know? Yeah. I mean, I had a front row seat on the 40th anniversary.

I was waiting to do chop and broccoli at the piano. It was at medley, and I'm just sitting there. And then Bill comes out and he does a song on this, and it practically sold the show. His commitment was so extreme. I told him afterwards it really was making me laugh. You know, there's a story behind that is the oldest piece I've ever been involved with from conception

to actual production. That goes back to the fall, like to like 1977, the Billy, Billy would sing a fragment. He would sing the fragment like, Jaws, get away from the Jaws. That thing. And then I was always obsessed with getting that on the show. And so when the 40th anniversary thing came up, I said, look, I want to complete that song. I want to write the, you know, make it a song. And so I came up with a part about, you know, the, and now, jaws, you found someone new. Tell me, jaws, you know, what am I supposed to do? No, am I not enough for you.

And so we added that and Paul Schaefer came up with the tagline, you bastard, Jaws. That's the final thing. And then we, and so I was so obsessed with getting that on. I'd never like push something harder. And Billy was sort of, okay, whatever. If you think because it never, I'd never like push something harder. And Billy was sort of, okay, whatever, if you think, because it never, we'd never done anything with it ever in all those years, but every few years I would, I would bring it up and say, God, that's, that should be,

that should appear somewhere. And then when the time came to do the anniversary, I had already sort of, I was singing the song and pitching it to my root off. And I guess Amy Poler was in on it. Probably. Yeah. And Emily Spivey, who was a great writer, who, of a younger generation, who worked on that, that whole sequence.

And then, but Billy was doing the Pebble Beach Pro Am golf tournament. And he would not, that thing ended the night before. So he would not hear of leaving early. He not only had it, I remember that. Steve for his part, but he absolutely refused to duck out of it before was officially over. So I think our thing was the Sunday night, right? It had to be, right? Yeah.

That's when they do those. Very minimal rehearsal. So the tournament ended like some kind of ceremony Saturday evening. And so that was the earliest he would consider leaving. So we had to get a private jet formatting, but he made it. He slept. He arrived in the hotel. I slept for. Which David Spade paid for. I was really knocked out. And then, and then Billy like slept for an hour in his hotel room. And then we got him to NBC, did the one and

only rehearsal with Paul Schaefer up, believe it or not, in our old office upstairs. It just happened to be. And then with Emily Spivey was there. And then we went down. And then by the way, I happened to wander through and check cue cards, because I just, you know, by habit. And someone had changed, had taken out you bastard. And yes, and not because it's dirty, but because it's offensive to people whose parents didn't bother to get married.

There's something you said. So, and I was like, no one had run that by me. And they also wouldn't let him say, got you goddamn draws, because that supposedly is offensive to believing Christians. And so I just said, you know what? I will take this on myself. It'll be my responsibility. So I just changed it back and said, if they have a problem with it, they consume it. No one's going to complain. You will not get one call and they did not get any calls.

Who has the balls to paint over that Picasso? It's you and Bill Murray writing something and you're like, let me take a swing at this. This is a punch. I ran into Emily after the fact and I said, Emily, what the hell was that? Oh yeah, they just told me we couldn't do that. And I said, no, no, no, you don't.

No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, tell us. It's afterwards, then they kind of seem to let it go. Because when I was doing the Italian waiter sketch with Victoria Jackson. With the Jackson, yes, yes. And I put her on a table and don't Vicki's so funny and lie on her.

She is the most game person ever. And so she's in for this. And then, yeah, yeah. And then she puts her legs over and I'm just talking, kind of moving. And that was yeah, yeah. And then she puts her legs over and I'm just talking, kind of moving. And that was the dress show. It killed. And then the air show kind of pretending to get me,

to me was either Schneider or Steve Corn or Robert Smigel, kind of going, hey, don't, I didn't remember if they, I kind of chose to ignore them. Yeah. And then I did it anyway. But then we never would ever hurt. That's your book. Choose to kill. Yeah, you're never, it's always gonna be on the performer.

I know that that kind of note was just there for like legal reasons or the equivalent to seven. And we told him, I gave him the note, but then fact, something that funny, they're not gonna come in. Of course, people watched the show want that. You know, Jim, one time I think you were there. You were there my whole run.

I'm pretty sure. You're probably, yeah. By the way, just as an insert, you were the head writer for 11 years. 86 to 97. And then let's get back to David's story. Technically, yeah, like, well, 85, I hate to say that was not one of our better seasons, but 85 until through 95, yeah. Okay, so David, what was your thoughts?

So I was saying in that train of thought, when I did an update with Dennis, and he says, I was doing it in an out list, what's in and what's out. Yeah, yeah. And one of them was not an unseating so you can get stuff on the air and going out and get some pussy and and then Andrew Brewer comes back he well I see him in the hallway

goes no no I go good and he goes I didn't say it's new good and he goes you have to fix it and he goes if you we're in the hallway behind the quick change by the page desk and he goes I go come on come on, don't take this away. I got nothing. He goes, you can say, hey, but you can't say, hey, I don't say, oh, God damn it. So I go, and then I go, I'm scared, because it's coming up in the bit

that's making me so nervous. And I go, go out and have the show. I guess I'm healthy. And it killed Dennis, because you're dead, dude. Right, when it went to commercial, it goes, you're fired, because it Right, what if it'd have come her, so she goes, you're fired? Because it killed too hard. And then it's over. And then it's over.

It is over. It's a matter of will. And then, you know, you will to victory. And then when you have victory, they can't touch you. They can't touch you. Yeah, if it bombs, then there's a bigger problem. Different bombs, but fortunately,

we're not talking about that here. That's what Guy's saying. Yeah. But I never heard, I never heard Boo about the supposed bomb. Jim, did we have a, the first censorship guy was he like Mr. Clock, where they had I imagine that with a boat. The title, the very first guy who was great was a guy named Jay Ottley who was, had been literally a former male model.

And he was like super. He looked like those guys in the 60s like cigarette heads. He was just extremely handsome man, very distinguished middle age guy. And nothing bothered him at all. He was a censor shaggy. He was kind of a big. He didn't seem like you had to want to have a first couple of years. I mean, I don't remember...

I don't remember being told there was anything that we couldn't do. Awesome. And Jay Ottley was, oh, he was magnificent. I mean, everything, but he was just kind of... No, that's fine. Don't worry about it. Really? What was he there when I was there? He's reporting a no on real estate.

He wasn't, he was the first. He was like a super, he was an out, out gay man. He was just incredibly, just a super cool guy. Like just, you know, he, you know, like, he's straightly like a Fred Astaire type, you know, just super he, you know, we like it. He's, he's like a Fred Astaire type, you know, which is super elegant, but had seen everything. Nothing bothered him. It, and then he was replaced by Bill Klotworthy. I had, I had, I'm in that name. And Bill had a little bow tie and he was very stern. Bill was a little, a little, you know, the, we had rougher sledding with, with Mr. Klotworthy, but he was,

a decent guy. I mean, you could, you could, he would hear your arguments. And then, um, well, I, Ross Wyman, she was, had a standards. I remember having, I remember her, yeah. And, and I remember Dana, you remember this piece that I wrote with, with Tom and Tom Davis, there was the pussy whip talk show. Oh, yeah. And he was a little blad Remember Dana, you remember this piece that I wrote with Tom Davis, there was the pussy whip talk show. No, and it was, and he wasn't let us. Yeah, we wouldn't, he wouldn't let us say it was supposed to be pussy whipped. We had to end up with P whipped and again, and again, it was not because of the word

pussy like David to, you know, pussy was fine. It was the concept of pussy, whippos offensive. And I remember Ross Wyman saying to me, as a woman, I find this entirely offensive. And that's when I figured out just like bastard wasn't about bastard being a dirty word, it was by that time it was a PC thing, you know, by the time we were talking about the Ford anniversary, but as far as, as far as pussy whipped, it was, it was, you know, insulting to women, woman kind, which I didn't really, I think all women understand the concept of being pussy whipped.

I don't think that was cool. Get out. Clockworthy wouldn't let me say when I first did church lady, she had a couple penises in there. You're a penis. That kind of like, actually, he said no. So I put in more stuff, I cut penises when we're in engorged. Bulbas, bulbbas, and he got, and clock where there's

like, well, this is trapping meat myself. Robbing Satan, stick, bulbous, and then gorge. He goes, I love this. Just don't say. Really? Wow. It's like dirtier in a weird, weird, weird, weird. Yeah.

That's more a part of traffic. But I also thought you were going for the oldest trick of the book, which even the NBC standards department figured out after what which was you loaded up with cannon fodder that you're that you can trade away. Oh, you got to stop. Yeah, you write stuff that you you don't even want, but but it's it's they're just that you have something to yeah. And then you can trick it's like it's like sailors. It's like sailors being trinkets to trade with the native skin and anyway. You'll get this slinky for this 18 acres of a lot. What's like politicians? The bill's going to cost 700 trillion. Yeah. And then you go, well, could it be 20 trillion? Well, okay. look like it was at Dana. That's the only president

that wasn't an appraising. I was actually trying to do, I only do Bernie Sanders as a crosswalk guard. Okay. Don't proceed. Don't proceed. The system is rigged. Don't proceed. But I was trying to think of Bernie like that. Six trillion dollars, I'll give you a three trillion back. What the fuck is going on? Anyway, oh wait, by the way, when you worked with Billy Murray, you didn't have to pee in a bottle and you're dressing him like some people at the show, did you? I don't recall doing that just for fun, I think. Yeah.

One of our cast members did during my years. In a bottle? Yeah. And just left a bunch of bottles in his room. Oh, it must have been Mr. Christopher Farley. No, it actually wasn't Farley. Oh, it wasn't Farley? No, I'm thinking about it.

He would only shit out the window for fun. He did wipe his butt with a USA today once and we were, I guess it was right before we threw. We love Chris, he's the greatest. And he doesn't even take his pants off. You know, Downey, he was, I know you loved him, he had, when he found Belushi's pants and wardrobe, you know, the wardrobe was so extensive there and they would give him pants and for his size

They would dig back and he would just look in and it would see in their written Balushi And he would try and they are fucking Balushi's and then he'd put them on and then even if they gave him different pants He would put them under his pants No kidding because it was like good luck. Yeah, he was so obsessed. Yeah, he's a blue sheet. Oh, man, the experience of giving John Belushi notes was always, okay, no, no, no, let's get to it. Okay, that's what we want here. We would go in and like a team, you know,

and Frank and, you know, Frank is famously blunt, herviest to, yeah, who matters and sensitivity and everything. So he, he was always good like shock troops, you know, to like, he was the bombing that, that, that, that happened before we, let's became a, the battle through carriers.. And so then I was usually the first wave in, dancing through the minefields. And he'd be in Belushi, be sitting there staring, sort of solemnly in his dressing room. And I'd go like, I did not, hey, John, yeah, on this thing.

I mean, it's great. It's great with you and then he'd instantly start. And it was, it's great. It's great, and it was instantly started. And it was, it was experienced. I had a friend of mine who visited the show one time and Belushi and Danny had done the Blues Brothers as a warm-up, which that's how it began. They warmed up, you know, the audiences and then, and then they just, you know, decided we're

going to do this big time. Anyway, he was, and that was, at that time, that was all the blue sheet really cared about it seemed. And so he was, what he lived for nothing more than compliments about the Blues Brothers. And so my friend, my friend who was, who was, he was incapable of not being completely honest, however insane it was in a situation. So we were, he was sitting with me at the party. He was a friend from high school. And, and, and, and, and I said, hey, John, the Blues Brothers, awesome. That was awesome. Once he goes, hey, thanks, man. And my friend just goes, you need to time your heart.

You need to time your singing better with act grotesque harmonica. Oh, boy. And the boss won. And the boss, he's literally goes, what did you say? I said, you need to time your singing better with, so he hadn't heard it, you know,

with the Accroix heart playing. And so he goes, there was nothing wrong with the timing of my singing, with Accroix. Oh yeah, there was, yeah, there was. Wow, and when I was learning, that's ballsy for a different place. He didn't understand, he was like, he was on socialize. He was like, he was like, he was like,

he was like, musically, if you want to get it perfect, he's like, it's working. I wouldn't worry about it. If I do it, one of us is tapping the desk, Dana's like, that was me. That was me. Okay. We'll keep around that. It's all right. We can start over. I just said to him, Lou, I love everything about that bit. The whole thing in the blues part, I'm not it key. Take it away from the blues, don't sing,

but just talk about, sorry, go ahead. But one of the reasons, Belushi and I got along much, probably better with Belushi than any of the other writers because he was from Wheaton, Illinois, and I had cousins who Belushi knew, who lived in Wheaton, Illinois, and I had cousins who, Volushe knew who lived in Wheaton, and that was essentially it. So it was like, I was like his cousin.

So he would, he would talk to me. And of course, you know, all of the writers got on great with Dan Acroid, so, but he was not nice to the women. It's a show I have to say. And, Dan, Johnny, John Bolucci, he's great with everybody. Yeah, Dan he's a sweetheart. So I have to say and Danny John Johnny is a sweetheart, but what would would Blue she ever like throw furniture or anything? I cuz he was so powerful on screen, you know

He's such a potent character. Would he ever do stuff backstage? I mean, you just think of him as a badass pirate and barely under control But I never there's always this maness below the surface, but I never saw, I never saw, he'd both Danny and Billy, you know, were more, I saw, you know, get more physical. But John, I don't ever remember he just, but he would have this way of sort of glouring. And, but like I said, you know, when he, there's certain moments that were so Balushi that him, did you guys see ever see the him doing Mussolini at the, it was the show we did from New Orleans where very little in that show actually worked, but all the Balushi stuff did. He was doing, we had one of those balconies. You know, there's

in the French quarter. Yeah, I would make that. I would make that. Lorraine, set Lorraine, you mentioned it was a shit show down there. It was crazy. It was, it was fun to do it. And it was, you know, we, I ate a lot of great restaurants and, and it was fun. I'd never been to New Orleans before. But the show itself was we couldn't communicate with each other. We were doing it at different locations all over the city. But Belushi did this Mussolini thing where it was just pure Belushi and it was brilliant and with like a real like crowd below. And he just had all the moves down.

And he also did a Michael O'Donohy wrote this this thing. The winner of the hit Alh thing, the winner of the hit, hit Al Hurt in the mouth of the brick contest. And I don't know if you guys hear the trumpet player. The trumpet player, Al Hurt, see this is something you've got to be in minimum my age to know the actual reference. But Al Hurt was famous New Orleans trumpet player and once you put somebody threw a brick at him.

I hit him in, so it's just Belushi playing trumpet like very nervously, like watching for the bricks coming. I can't explain. I love it. I invite you guys to check it out. Well, he would commit so, so it was in that show. Yeah, yeah. Belushi would just commit like crazy.

Was he doing drugs during shows or you just catch it? Was it more after? No, no, after part of any situation. I don't remember that ever interfering with it. It was more when John was difficult. It was more, it was more just attitudinal things that, you know, I mean, he did sort of, he did when he got into music, he, I think he,

the show ceased to be his absolute top priority. Yeah. I remember, because sometimes drugs make people moody, and quotes, and sometimes with Farley, I go, I think you're being moody, right now, and I wish we could find where that's coming from. I know we should trace where that's coming from. I wish we could trace it back to something. But I remember that I could imagine that John,

by the way, I don't care if John did drugs during the show. I mean, the shows are funny, and they stand up as like, my old childhood is based on it. It's the fucking greatest. So I don't give a shit, but if people can do their job, I think drunk is harder to deal with when people are, uh, you deal with people that are trying to perform. And can make you slurrier and slower on, you're not nailing shit. Yeah. I did robber down e junior, not wait a minute. Who was the guy who was the incendiary talk show, so new Jersey

down, down, down, sorry. Morton down, junior was coming on church. He is in no way related. Okay, go on. No way related, and I think he's gone to the stars, but he was really in the tank. I mean, it was, Oh, that's right. I think I thought he was in the show. Yeah, he came on.

He came on church chat. Yeah. He was like a Jerry Springer for the audience. He was like one of the first like really and sendyery fucking homes that got everyone riled up drunk and sketch comedy. That's tough. I mean, I'm not saying there. Yeah, well, you guys would know better than I, but I would think that it would be impossible

if you're alone in front of an audience to be drunk. You'd have to have a very weird kind of act to me. No, I've definitely, I've had a few cordials before I go on stage sometime. It's just the pressures of life. I know. So you get it. I saw the documentary. Have you not?

On me? You have a lot of heartache to swallow. The dark side of Dubai. Did you see that? That's the one. That's the one. That's the one. So I would have a few knocks, as my dad would say.

And then, but sometimes you're off your game a little bit, you're right. There's a fine line between, hey, I'm feeling good. And then like, fuck, what joke is that? I don't remember the middle of a joke. I don't know what's going on. So.

Y no, no. and sell more with Intuitimale Sim. The brand number one in Emilio and the brand had an automaticization. It started with Emilio Sim.com. You'll see more of your publics in the market competitions in the global number of clients in 2020-22. We all love Norm and this OJ situation on update. That people have asked me, was Norm leaving? Was it a direct result? Because I think you're writing for update with him, right? You was kind of a certain co-writer with nor yeah, you guys were like locked in a room doing it that that was all you guys

Yeah, Norm on update was my One of my successful projects at the show was one that I, it was entirely my, he was my candidate in a very crowded field because the network had determined that Kevin, they were not going to give Kevin another chance. I personally thought, yeah, Kevin Neillin had been doing update from the time Dennis left. And I personally, you know, Neil Nesey Bonham about, you know, the dead, but the herb sergeant was not doing Kevin any favors the way he was running update. And it was hard to sort of get to get help to Kevin because, you know,

it had to go through her. It had to go through her, and her was sort of like, ran interference and wouldn't know what you're getting through. And anyway, so I had my update pieces either. And so I felt like the second week, I met Norm that he would be a perfect guy

if Kevin, you know, left the show or anything. And so when the network announced, you know, it was all my, I was like, no, no, no, no, Neelan's out, he's dead, he's gone, forget about it, not happening. So that started this thing where there were several different candidates, but Norm was my guy. And it sort of, he wasn't initially the favorite,

but he sort of, he wasn't initially the favorite, but he sort of survived. And so as far as the OJ stuff is concerned, that, if you remember, the murders by persons as, yeah, unknown happen in June of 1994, which is when we were having this meeting out in LA, which by the way ended, it was I was summoned out for the first time to have a notes meeting with as head writer slash producer of the show. And Lauren and I were out there at the NBC headquarters and it was Don Olmeyer and Rick Ludwin and Warren Littlefield. I think Bernie Brilstein was in the meeting. I'm pretty sure. Don Olmeyer and Rick Ludwin and Warren Littlefield.

I think Bernie Brilstein was in the meeting. I'm pretty sure. And so they were, and Olmeyer, they were very unhappy with the show because the ratings had dropped. And I thought it was, we were on like a sugar high the year before that in 92, 93 from the Wayne's World movie. That, that's so, the political, that that so we had the political

and political and we had the debates and stuff. And so the ratings dropped, I'll be, I'll be at to a rating number that they would they would die for. Kill for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, but anyway, so they were, they were giving us their notes and what they didn't like and everything. And I had gone there. My marriage was falling apart because of the time at the show and stuff. And so I kind of I was sort of feeling like, I don't know if I want to keep doing this. So my attitude was, I'm not going to do anything to save my job. I'm not going to beg or plead or agree to any take, you know, I'm going to just tell him what I think. And if they don't like it, it'll, it's just as six and one to me if I get fired or not.

And in the end, that sort of backfire because I heard later like, Oh, my ear was impressed by your moxie. He didn't, which is not the attention. But anyway, so they were talking about update and they just said, and Kevin had to go, I would never have put, I would know, I love Kevin, he still loves him. He's on the ground. He was a great favorite with the

writers. Yeah. And I just have thought I could have, I thought if they had been willing to keep Kevin, but get rid of herb, I think that we could have turned that thing around. But anyway, that was not the, that was not the option available. So anyway, but the meeting ended only because visiting hours were starting at LA County and Omire had to go visit OJ. Wow. That's why that meeting ended finally, mercifully. And so then when the fall came, there's a whole other story with how Norm came to be the guy, but Norm is doing update, and I told him at the beginning, I said, look, I don't mean anything,

not nothing about her, but attempts have been made in the past to help people doing update and that her blocked all efforts to, because you've got, you know, was threatened in territorial everything. And so I told Lauren, like, look, we're not, we're not going to fuck around. We're not going to let her do to you what he did to Kevin. And so you can have your herb meaning, but you got to have a later one with me because

we're not, I'm not fucking around this time. It's too important. And then, and then I was like, yeah, yeah, that sounds great. You know, so, so what, what happened is we is we first of all opened the piece up for the first time to lots and lots of writers. So you suddenly got a lot more writers contributing. And, and then we would just overrule decisions that herb made until, and the herb never, I never even had a conversation with Herbert, and we just, and so, but the basically, so to answer your original question,

the way Norm came to be fired was we just did the OJ jokes because they were funny. It wasn't none of us had a hard time for OJ or anything, but it was... He was in the news every fucking day, too. You can't avoid it. Yeah, and so luckily the timing couldn't have been betting of the trial open just before we went on the air. We, and then the very next year, the fall of 95, the opening,

week of the first show, the verdict came back. And so, but anyway, he just every week, I would hear occasionally from Lauren, and I knew it was Omar calling him to complain, but it was Lauren would go like, how is it that you in Norm seem to be the only people absolutely convinced of O.J. skills? And I would go like Lauren. Lauren, come on. Come on. I think it's hurting us with black audience. And I said, first of all, we have a black audience. We have a very small, and second, I think it only helped us. Because black people know that OJ did it.

Come on. And so anyway, finally, we did the first season of update, which was 94.95. That was the trial. The second season, a 95.96 of gorms update. That was the aftermath of the trial and the civil trial, right? And then we threw in the 96, 97, the third season, just for for shirts and grants here, we continue to do it. So we did, I'm sure we did an OJ joke, at least one OJ joke every other show, yeah. For, for, from 94, 95 and 96.

And then finally, the fall of 97, you know, that was Norm's fourth season and the season we were fired. Fall 97. Packaged deal? There was nothing to do. There was nothing to do about our table. It would have felt like it was all over the hill.

Well, no, no, that's what we learned. No, we liked the overkill. We always said, Of course. I heard this quote much later, but I wish I'd known it. Joseph Stalin, someone I comedy people don't normally quote, but Joseph Stalin said, quantity has a quality all its own. And it has a lot of it.

I was like, David Hasselhoff jokes too, yeah. Yeah, that's right. Well, we love, let me just finish. So we open that season, the fall 97, right? Spring 98. We didn't do any OJ jokes. But we didn't do any OJ jokes for the first eight shows. Wow.

And then the Christmas, it was a strong stretch of like, it was like the bombardment has stopped and then suddenly I think they stopped. They have stopped. It's peace in the valley. And then on the eighth show, we did two OJ jokes because there was the one thing about the trell spree well. Remember he was playing for the next and he went nuts in a practice. He choked the coach. He choked. He choked. He choked. He choked. He choked. He choked. He choked. He choked. He choked. He choked. He. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we did a joke about Johnny, any higher Johnny Conchron as his attorney. And so we did a joke about it. Conchron is vowed to find the real choker.

And then there was O.J. If you remember, this one, O.J. was a restaurant in Brentwood. And his presence was bothering some of the other patrons. So the manager of the restaurant said, Mr. Simpson, some of our customers have their concern. And we're wondering if you wouldn't mind leaving. And so OJ sued the restaurant, but got something like 300 bucks, like a free dinner or something. So our joke was, in addition,

the restaurant must now set up individual or separate murderer and non-murderer sections. I know. So, so, oh, Jake. So anyway, I'm I'm I'm so we did that. That was the Saturday show. A couple days later, I'm I'm in New Cane and visiting my little son. And the first thing I see is the sound was off on the TV and he's sitting in his high chair and he was like two years old, I guess. And so he looks up at the thing and there's Chris Farley.

But with the sound off, he didn't know exactly what it was. He starts laughing hysterically just at the side of Chris Farley. And then the phone rings and it's Mike Schumacher from the show, it was a producer at the show. And he says a couple of things, Chris Farley's dead and you and Norm were fired.

And so yeah, and so apparently, and the later, and guess what? It was like three years later, Norm told me, and he had never said this to me, because if there were positions reversed, I would have said it right away. He said, you know, they, they told me like it wasn't, you know, that they were only firing you, that I was welcome to stay and I said, I won't, I won't

do it without Downey. And so they said, okay, motherfucker, you know, be our guest. So that's how norm came to be fired. He went out of solidarity with me. So I think it's probably smart because you made it. You guys together were really good. It probably would have he would have been he would have been he's great. But you know, you're great. Right? I mean, do you remember bring a joke to you or an idea that you that even you thought maybe went too far because he did know really norm really norm. Yeah. Yeah, there's actually, because he really would push the envelope, you know. There was what's he with norm?

Even with me, like I occasionally, and you guys knew, I know, I know you would, I know you would, Holly would minute you'd say, I dare you to do that. I'm like, I can't, I don't want to, I've got scared, but you're like, you're such a pussy.

I'm like, God'll do that, Holly. But when you were dealing with Norm, he would occasionally like, he would be in his Canadian geyser mode, and you couldn't get him out of it. He would just have to write it out. He's just have to go, okay, he's going to be doing like, I'm sorry, I don't quite, I hear you, but I don't understand you. And that kind of thing. And so you have to, okay, Norm, when you're ready to talk as Norm McDonald,

I'm here, you know, and by the way, so sometimes he would come in with things where he was clearly joking and I would never take the bait, but one time he had this joke, which there's not a lot of jokes that offend me. You know, they certainly don't offend me in the conventional ways, but they often offend me. I just I think they're just terrible jokes, but this one kind of did in the way. And that's what he had this joke where it was well Woody Allen is dating again. and it was the image of the naked Vietnamese girl running down the road after the name Palmitat.

That old photo, that old, that old, that old famous old photo. And so my only reaction to that was like North, come on. Come on. Come on. It's funny. It's funny. No, I'm, no, it's no, no. And to this day, I don't know. And I could, no, no, no, it's no no and to this day, I don't know and I could know arm please we know if you do that

choke and from an audience you a you're going to take down The rest of the show the next three shows That you can't I mean we'll take the the temperature in the studio down 30 degrees You can't, I mean, the temperature in the studio down 30 degrees, there'll be like ice on people's, you know, beards and stuff. You can't do that. Right. No, no, come on, it's funny. So, they, he and Frank and Frank was backing him on the Franks of Estiano.

Well, it's the best update writer ever. And he, um, how he loves it. And so, and so, and Frank was not, I couldn't, I would look over at Frank and Frank was not, he wasn't like winking or anything. And so I and so, and Frank was not, I couldn't, I would look over at Frank and Frank was not, he wasn't like winking or anything and so I go, okay, so we tried it and press and it had precisely the effect. I thought it would, although who knows about future shows. But anyway, it was like this, like this collective giant gas. And then, so after that norm was willing to give it up and then we didn't do it on the air, obviously. But like years later, so after that norm was willing to give it up, and then we didn't do it on

air, obviously. But like years later, so that was like, I'm going to say that was maybe 1996. So at least 10 years later, Steve Higgins, you know, his current producer of the show, comes up to me and says, do you ever remember, we're looking for a sound effect of an audience being like horrified, offended, and I got it. I got it. So I said, like I directed them to that update.

And I said, just I'm pretty sure if you take that thing, the other thing will be uncorrupted by any laughter. So you'll get a nice clean take of gasping and horror. And so they they I didn't remember which show is from so they had like plow through a lot of dress rehearsals. I guess but a few hours later, Higgins said, Oh my God, we got it. And it is everything you said. So like they use it and I'm to this day, I'm pretty sure they haven't, like, on a cart, so whenever they need the sound effect of something, not just not getting a response, but getting kind of active hate, you know, until there was that moment, yeah.

Yeah, he's got some in real life, even as act, you know, we do stand up on the road and, you know, you're always telling rough first stuff to each other but he was way balker than someone like me as far as I do stuff that kind of rubs people wrong sometimes but his could really like he would appreciate it I know what you're talking about Dave and I know the stuff of yours that you're referring to but I always loved it yeah well you have done it you just didn't have the balls I did not but when but when we would do the show, Dana, I think you'll know because you can ask about the bush stuff, but when we would do any sketch,

I don't think performers in general, you're saying about Belushi, love notes. And if you think you're any good, which I think we all think we're pretty good on the show, at least at some level, insecure, but we think we have something. It's hard to take notes from people, but SNL, it wasn't hard because when I got to a rewrite table and I was going to get the help of everyone, you couldn't look around there. And it was like the dirty dozen of great people going, I'm going to get a free joke from Conan. I'm gonna get one from Downey, I'm gonna get one from Schneider who does good jokes,

I get Jack Handiel throwing in, Smigel. It's so it's unreal. So, and Downey was the king of that. So, if you can get Downey's attention for a few minutes at three in the morning, then you are going to get, it's gonna be better, no matter what, you're just gonna be better. Well, that's just like Downey being a head writer

and having everyone wanting to get his ear to get that line or get that approval or get a different take on a table. Take angle. And that's exhausting, right Jim? Well, not twice. Well, I will say this. It's a shame that when I worked with you guys, I didn't, I mean, it was all, in retrospect, not that I'm, listen, I'm a friend of the help,

I may have given you guys, I love hearing that. We're going to get into that. It's my heart, but I realized I was much happier my first four years at the show, and when I returned to the show, after my second firing, I return to the show in 2000. And at that point, when I came back, I said, okay, here's the deal. I'm going to be just a regular sketchwriter. I am not going to be responsible. I'm not going to be the reason someone's piece got on or didn't get on. I'm not going to be, if comes to me as a friend, one to one, one on one, just you have any thoughts on this, I'm happy to, but I'm not going to consider it my job,

and I'm going to stay completely out of all office politics and right from home, which was important so I don't have to stay up all night. And I gotta say, I was much happier during my first four years at the show and my last, whatever that was, 2000, 2012, like another 12 years. But that middle section where I knew both you guys, I when I was head writer slash producer, which was sort of like, it's like being a player coach and it's kind of tough, you know.

Stuff, yeah. But I mean, I did and it really takes a lot of time away from from writing my own stuff, which my that my only my ego is in writing so that anything that where I felt like I I didn't have the space to sort of go off on my own and come up with something. Um, you know, uh, so I, but I did, I know that I, I got some junk baskets, you know, as we would call them, you know, just someone was really right there with it. And I just was able to come up with the best. I give you an example of something you elevated a bit that was really very silly. It was me doing George Michael on update And I had all the get up on and it was all about look at my butt look at my butt

And it was like my butt has magical powers and we're doing these things about magical powers And then you came up the line if you put a wilted flower near my bottom it blooms Okay, that sounds I just just a little bit an assist that took it to another level Oh, yeah, if Schneider would be sleeping outside your office That when you crack the door it is good get a cup of coffee. All right. Help me with coffee machine And it was tough because we had weighed outside there We'd go we'd usually go to dinner like that Mexican restaurant. We'd walk down or we'd say, they sent me.

Oh yeah, or we go to Walling, Joseph's or whatever. And then we'd come back and then everyone's stalling to write. And I'm like, oh, and then by the time I get notes that maybe this is something I shouldn't write, it was 230. And I'm like, wait, this is all I have. So I'd go try to jump on something else and help out. But can we go ahead?

Go ahead. I just thought we should give Jim one of your talents is political comedy. And so we had the campaign. This is in the late 80s. So we had Ducakis, the Democrat nominee for president versus the guy ended up doing Bush senior. and there was a really great line in their debate I didn't have a good bush at that point, but love it's had that line

That you sure you sure remember But line, yeah, you remember it. Well, no, I was gonna say you say you didn't I thought your bush was great I mean and it got better it got it got it got wilder over time It got it got wilder over time. Well, we should talk about that too because you mean out out and especially you Rhythmically kept extending it and I was doing lazy syntax that guy over there doing that thing and then eventually it came to and And I remember specifically Jim saying this to me. Oh, it's gonna be not got dot Yeah, not. And how's that spelled on the cue card? Oh, yeah, that's where we GA, not got. So we did, we did extend the rhythms, which

the audience went with us, you know, but the line that I don't know who wrote that line when I as Bush was going all over the place, that guy down there doing that thing, you know, but the line that I don't know who wrote that line when I as Bush was going all over the place that guy down there Doing that thing you know for like a minute and then love it as do caucus says I can't believe I'm losing to this guy Like you but that was franken I was pretty sure but it's a great line. Yeah, yeah and and It was it was the idea was it was supposed to Work both ways that it was like a commentary on Bush,

but it was also commentary on Ducakis's confidence. He was unshakeable. He always acted like he just kicked ass. You know. But sometimes I would do George Bush, senior, I would think I was going to be in trouble after I finished because I would go so out there with it. You know, I'd be like that thing guy over there moving in the stamos saying one that was you once to you established it. It was just you if you looked at maybe the first time you did George Bush and one of the last times you did Bush. With the leap and people would go, I had no idea how much it had evolved, but that was just you having more and more fun and over time. And people who'd been watching this,

you know, certainly had no idea. You know, they, that they were just leading them along. Tonight, I tell you one thing that happened that would relate to this, which was, I don't know if this has happened to you, Jim, but, or David, but I was doing Vegas with love, it's, and he went to a party and he ran into Gene Kelly's widow. This like four years ago. Wow. She said, okay. Gene Kelly's widow widow and she said,

tell Dana, because he's telling me, John's telling me, that Jean loved his George Bush senior. Every time he was on, Jean Kelly would say, quiet everybody, Dana's on. And so that kind of blows my mind. That is, that's that stuff's fantastic. I mean, when you get feedback back, I got to be honest with you. I guess I'm learning that Gene Kelly was alive into the, into the, I, late 80s, early

90s, but you, I, I had the superstar team because you and I are different flavors of writer. Yeah. And the, having both of you, and me and the center and the three of us really created this thing that got huge So anyway, we're always we're always able like the thing about our openings Which I don't know if your audience knows that we call them cold openings because you come right up on them without any warning first thing and and the the ideas of the studio is usually so And the ideas of the studio is usually so clogged with sets, because we burn a lot of sketches that are dropped after a dress rehearsal,

still require sets and take up space. And so the ideal cold opening has to be something really simple, easy to do. And so that's why there's, in over the history of the show. There've been a lot of oval office, the whoever is present at the time delivering a message straight to the camera, because it's something you can write on a Friday night so that it can be super topical. You don't have to build much. Yeah, it's a chair about an instrument. And it's usually at home base

where they do the monologue, correct? Yep. Yep. And so it makes it, it makes it, and like when Dana was doing Bush, it was just something that you could, you could be, you know, I mean, we weren't , we didn't know for about Dana. So, so it was just like we, we'd figure out whatever the idea was going to be if we could think of one at all. And then, but a lot of times, a lot of times, data, throughout that. We just send you out there with not a lot of the terms of the script. And we just relied on you to the red light goes on and you're going to push it up and, you know,

and we're going to have something. Well, sometimes I'd come in Saturday morning, or you would. And then I would hear, we're doing a bush tonight. Sometimes it's Friday night, but sometimes Saturday morning. Okay. And then you and I, I guess, we're, we would we would often have to, I don't know, there were a whole lot of them in fairness that that you got by Wednesday or that you were we were able to do by Wednesday. They tended to be a Friday night thing. I remember one that was planned was,

this remains one of my favorite bush pieces. It was the, if you guys remember back, he was accused of, because of the Willie Horton ads and stuff of doing a lot of negative campaign against Tukakis. So the joke was, had one election, you know, he was president-elect, but they still had plenty of money left over. So they decided to do one more negative ad.

And so it was the last negative ad. It was like a kind of a, and it was you sitting with your grandkids, like eating popcorn sort of screening, the negative ad. Anyway. But I just remember that as one that stood out because I know we had done that for read through. And I remember you were like, really?

It's a read through. It's that early. That stunned me. Yeah. Also, when you, when I left by then, so to Dana, but were you around, I think I read that you said Obama was very tough to do because no hooks. And I think that is true. Dana sort of does one now.

It's pretty good, but I think at the time, very dicey territory. Well, part of the thing I discovered with Obama, I mean, I would have said, if I did say that, I'd probably change my mind pretty quickly because with Obama, I mean, I would have said if I did say that, I'd probably change my mind pretty quickly because he definitely, I mean, I know Dana does a great Obama. And I've seen other people do really, I mean, so he's not, he's a lot easier to do than say, a Biden, which I consider like really close to, and that is 10. And difficulty, you don't think that, well, that's not easy.

Come on. No, Dana, I love your think that old day. Oh, that's easy. Come on. No, Danette, I love your friend. Come on. I'm not kidding around. I'm just saying that it's difficult. No, it's difficult. Yes.

It's an extreme, that's much harder than Obama, don't you agree? Yes. Obama finally had two hooks. One was he worked his pauses so brilliantly. Yeah. We're going to do some things for the American people. Yeah Five four to do because that's what we got to do and the biblical there and they got to do and then the other one He did was politically which was funny and they all do it to a point

I know Biden does is talk try to talk things into reality, you know So during rush is taking over Crimea. That's not, that's not, that, they ought not been doing that. That's not conducive. Yeah. Yeah. Take the rolling in. That's not conducive. The international relations. That's not a good thing. Shouldn't we do that? No. It's a great, too. That's a great Obama. I'm just saying that my only point was that Obama, I initially thought, like, oh, that's, he's going to be tough. I guess maybe if I had expressed it better, I would have said, there's a factor of people like Obama so much more than they liked any of the other people we're talking about. And also, Obama is a genuinely

cool guy. I mean, he, yeah, it gets in the way of riding it out. Because he actually is really funny. He's not an idiot. He's not an idiot. Yeah. No, he's the funniest present. If you have seen him like of the White House Correspondents dinner,

oh yeah. Things like that. He's actually really funny. He destroyed Trump and then Trump ran because of that. Yeah, he most did have Trump. Yeah, but he, so, but the audience I've discovered doesn't really like when if they think you're making fun of Obama, they all I guess they start they start sitting back with their arms across the chest going.

You know, tight and not but yeah, think again, you know, like we talked about briefly just that idea of teaching or something that's overtly has a political point of view and then doing something that has a, using the word silly, like I would do to break it with the audience for me so they'd be comfortable. I would do him doing nursery rhymes. And I would couch it as if no matter what Obama says, you can't not listen.

Jack and Jill went up the hill. Fetch a bill of water. Jack came down, Jill fell down. Is that so? That is a great insight because yes, an audience will be perfectly. It's more perfectly, yeah. Well, perfect. But it's when they feel that you're criticizing him and someone,

yes, you know, when you're not. I just feel like you're not. Right. See, Trump, I missed the entire Trump thing because I left the show. Even when you're not right see Trump I I missed the entire Trump thing because I left the show In the spring of 20 the May 2013 was my last show and I was never there Kio Dean your house. There's there's that a little a little doggy. Oh, we'll just have to ride it out It's for the charm factor. It's a charm factor. I thought he'd say something like, I'll make it stop. That dog's got to go. That dog's got to go. I'm afraid

I can't do anything about the dog will stop arguing a second after the danger is passed. The dog didn't like my obama. That was a problem. The dog is offended by my Obama. Tulip is a fan of all. Tulip. I didn't name the dog. It's my own old-year-old dog. You weren't there for Trump. You were there for Trump. You mean for the Baldwin Trump?

I wasn't there for the Baldwin Trump. I mean, the way they see Trump was the exact opposite of the way the show treated Obama. I mean, the show went, the show was absolutely, everyone there was a huge Obama fan, so there was not going to be anything really critical of Obama. You could put him in certain situations where he got to be funny sort of shitting on Republicans or else, if it was, there were certain things. I noticed that a thing with Seth Meyers

where there's Obama meeting with the premier of China and the Chinese premier was just busting in on UOS money. Said it was the translator. So it was Will Forte who was fucking brilliant in that piece. God, I love Will Forte. I love him. He did this. He did, I can't think of the,

was it the same premiere of the, anyway, at the Chinese premiere and, and Nassim Hadrod was the translator. And you guys probably know that I love to write pieces where someone's translating for someone else. It's sort of a funny thing of mine ever since the Spanish game show back in like 1978. And anyway, so it was the scene that drives doing the translating and the

guy would speak in Chinese and would be like, when are we getting our money? And then Obama would like, you know, and it's like, and then the premier would speak, and she would translate like, does the premier look like Mrs. Obama? Does it, and go what? You go, does the premier look like Mrs. Obama? Then why are you trying to do sex to him?

You know, that was all kind of, we want our money. You know, and anyway, so that we were able to do that because we weren't able, it, we didn't, it didn't play as like we were critical of Obama. But the last piece, the last political piece I ever wrote, I came back, it was an idea I had in like the summer of back, it was an idea I had in the summer of like, it was before Trump, so it must have been like 2014. I had an idea and I called up, Laurence, I said, hey, can I turn in on an idea for cold opening?

And it was Obama talking about ISIS. And this is when Obama had been, in all of his speeches. He kept saying like, now there is no connection between ISIS and the religion of Islam. That's not the thing I would ever say. You know, there's no connection. And so it was the idea, the premise was Obama addressing the nation saying that he just, he'd been doing some thinking and he realized there's a huge connection between ISIS and Islam. And if you think about it, I mean, there's one on the side. There's the whole thing with the, you know, with the al-Ahu Akbar. I didn't talk about that at the time. But that's pro. And so anyway, it played. And so I remembered it was very popular with,

you know, Frank and Piaver people I showed it to. And we did it. And I remember showing it to a friend of mine, Lawrence O'Donnell, who, you know, has the Lord MSNBC was a college roommate of mine. And he, and I showed it to him and he says, I think they're going to think you're making fun of Obama. I said, but no, it's silly. It's silly. It's more making fun of sticking to that idea that like because it was kind of silly to keep insisting, absolutely, that, oh, you know, ISIS has nothing to do. Nothing at all. I tell you. And so, and so, and, and he was right, it played to absolute silence. Wow. And, and, and, and kind of surprised people at the show. Because I got to say, I mean, I don't know, I might not be the best judge of it, but I,

I thought it was pretty funny, had some good jokes, and I don't remember those jokes, so I would share them with you, but it played the absolute silence. And so I realized that that was that's a bit of a third rail. If you're gonna do Obama, you have to. But I remember pitching, he came to the show when he was a candidate. And there was, we were in a long line in the hallway because the Secret Service, We were in a long line in the hallway because the secret service, they wanted space to be able to,

they sort of blocked off the hallway and we're like lined up shaking his hand, it was like a receiving line. And I remember he's going along sort of, a word with each guy and then I say, like, I grew up in Juliet and he like, he's like a, like an arrow, hitting a thing in a living room,, he just stops dead and then gave me like three or four minutes,

right? Because, and so, and he was showing off his knowledge of Joliette, which was impressive, I have to say. Really? You know, so if you've been, you know, I've been down at six quarters, I'm larkin' and go, yeah! You know, and anyway, so upstairs later, we were, he was gonna do something on the show, and I'd written something for him, and I know this would be more effective as a story if I remembered exactly what it was, but, and I've watched him laugh as he read it,

he was chuckling to himself and then just said, of course, you know, I can't do this, right? And I said, well, I was afraid you might think that. So for our next podcast, I will dig up that thing. I know I didn't throw it away. But you know, there was something about Obama was a guy who you knew he's basically a funny guy. So you can at least pitch stuff to him.

But like when McCain did the show, there was, you can go to Obama, but try to get it on. No, no, but McCain, McCain had this thing where, and people have sort of forgotten this aspect of his career, but he was like a scourge of wasteful government spending. So, yeah, you would know this from Arizona if saying, yeah, it's that he would. Yeah, but he was always talking, my friends. My friends. Why is this makes no sense at all?

And anyway, he, so I had this thing where he was just complaining about wasteful spending. And one of the jokes, almost my favorite joke in the piece, was, and what about this, my friends? A government program that warns convicted child and lesters when a 10-year-old boy moves into their neighborhood. What is the point? I mean, I don't understand.

$40 million for this program. And it's not even the money. It's not even the money. I would be against it if it were free. But $40 million. It's so free. I find it. It goes. No, this is funny.

I don't know about every joke in it. And so like 10 minutes later, like this terrified aid comes out to me and goes, the thing about the charm of a story, I mean, that's not in the piece, right? I mean, that's not going to be in the piece. And I go, well, yeah, he didn't object. He goes, no, no, no, that's not in the piece. And then the same guy would appear like every like half an hour. It's going to go's like that's still not in the piece, right? It's right. That's not in the piece. Anyway.

Well, you know, I find that, of course, by the way, I put the cards and put it in the piece. No, you're right. You won't regret it. You won't regret it again. Don't you think? I mean, maybe we should finish with this because you also, I find people laugh at

Republicans more easily like I would do George so before shin Texas they'd go crazy Trump supporters hardcore supporters laugh their ass off at Trump, but you and Will Ferrell and and Darrell Darrell Hammond, you know hooked up for that debate stuff and you came up of course famously Daryl Hammond hooked up for that debate stuff. And you came up, of course, famously, with a word that sort of defined George W. Bush in the year 2000. To the strategic. Or what?

Oh yeah, I remember that. Yeah. Of course. Well, that was, sorry. Farrell's great. That was great. I had to take it further in my standup act because you guys were writing so funny.

I just finally went to the, to the Nthree with W like, Bud Glass, all Americans. We're gonna potec, feed them here at home and on a broth, irrediculous of race, credence, clear water, or colored balloons. I just had to go insane, but we'll own that. He was brilliant at it.

And so was Darrell's Gore, it was great. Yeah, Darrell Lom. Yeah, Darrell Lom. Darrell Lom. Darrell Lom. Darrell Lom was a case with Darrell's Gore was a real, you know, Darrell's very serious about his, especially his political impressions. And he, he, he breaks them down to like the little phonemes and little, and it'll say like, I've seen this, I noticed this thing where Gore does kind of a, yeah, thing when he sang yellow or something

and like these really like, they're like, like 10 decimal place kind of observations, you know? And then I would come at him with a more like a wide scale kind of wide focus kind of thing like, or a wide angle, maybe it's what I'm thirty four, but like I remember, I had noticed that the way Gore had that rhythm where it go, Jim, in my plan, but he is plan and they had that kind of,

and I remember working with him was like me working from one end of the continuum and him from the other and meeting in the middle of my, I was really, it wasn't, I mean, I did, you know, have a lot to do with his impression. I loved writing for that character. And in a way, I would have probably had more fun in a way if he had been elected, just because it was, I'd always said, Gour was inherently interesting and weird. He was a Tennessee gentleman as well, I look at it because I would do it for my wife

and I'm just doing this. And she goes, and she thinks it's so exaggerating. It's like, well, I take Umbridge Con, Madame. He's a Tennessee gentleman. And that was kind of my key into it. No, no, and that, that is exactly right. And I mean, you, it should be a little exaggerated. I mean, you have to be able to, yeah, you, you identify that, that, that kind of sibilant thing.

Sibilant thing. And then you have every right to accentuate it, you know, take it I mean this this planet is getting hot a shit you not Okay, Jim my last my last two things final question. No To part why are we wrapping this up? This is going great. It's going to be two quarters. You get extra one is I was trying to look over all the great ones you'd written or, I had an ad.

But Chip and Dale's is one of the all time. Change bank, Chip and Dale, there's so many that you were there, that we were there before. Tell the Chip and Dale's story, or Europe, that, because that was the, that's a top 10 for a lot of people,

and so many things. Absolutely ties into David's bed. So I hope I'm right about this. And I should ask up David my memory. Okay. My memory is that you arrived for the fall of 90 spring of 91 season. Yes or no? Yes. And no, I did four shows with Rob at the end of the year with dice clay. Candace Berger. So 89. Hella bald when he had that I came back and we and Farley and rock joined. And that was our first official like you know, that's that's that was 1991 or something.

And then because I had been talking to our friend Robert Smigel and he had looked it up and said like, no, David arrived after Farley. And I said, no, no, I remember him. I thought I had been convinced by Robert. I love Robert, but when it comes to dates, he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. He had been convinced that you would come after Farley. So that kind of does queer the story a little bit.

But I know that I've said this to Dana that I, I one time made the mistake when I didn't get my first computer until this week. Well, no, 2013 was the first time I ever used a computer. And I had been given an absolute state-of-the-art MacBook Pro by Lauren as a present in 2004. And it didn't come out of the shrink wrap until for nine years. And so by which time was no longer state-of-the-art. But so the first time I had done a different interview for a different project, it was for this book. I had done a different interview for a different project. It was for this book. Poking a dead frog. It was an interview with the comedy writers and and anyway, so I was the one I wanted to see something about the book So I googled it and then I see my name and I sort of click on that and my name was mentioned in a nasty review

Where the guy especially went after me and, and that was the experience was so upsetting that I vowed I will never again click on anything I might see in my, and even someone like me, I'm not nothing like you guys, but I have like a Wikipedia page, and so I've never looked at it because, to me it's like Medusa, I dare not look at it. So I occasionally ask my son to

um, would you check my Wikipedia page see if there's anything I need to worry about? Mostly it's just inaccuracies, but occasionally there's been stuff that definitely is problematic. But so anyway, I extended this for the most part to anything on YouTube, although if it's a piece that I wrote, I'm willing to look at that piece now and again, but they only recently put the chip and Dale's piece up on YouTube. It hadn't been up there for a long time. I'm pretty sure. And I was looking at like Ricky Jervais or something. You know, I wasn't even looking at a Saturday live thing. And then I see

in the right hand column, you know, all the suggestions. And there's chip and Dale's, like, holy, I haven't looked at this since it aired. It does. I don't play. So this was, this was like 20, it was from 1990. So that's going to be like 20 years at least. So I look at the piece and these pieces never, I, it's one of the reasons I don't look at them much is, because they all, they're never as good as you might remember them. And, and sometimes much worse than that.

But I, but it was, in this case, it was the comments. And the comments were like 90, better than 90% savage. They really, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they They really hated it. No, no, they fucking hated it. And all of it was about how cruel, how awful, how evil, how, and you come on, you guys have to bat me up on this. Sometimes it was all we could do to get farly to keep his clothes up. What is sad? Break that down.

Re-write meaning. Okay, so somebody with their point was that down. I said, right, right, meaning. Okay, so, something with their point was, what goes through the mind of a writer to think it's funny, it's funny to make Porkwiz Farley take his clothes off for this sketch. It's just humiliating someone over something he can't help. And so, and the only reason I would have done the thing is because Farley was so, he loved doing that for so many years. Yeah. He loved getting, anyway. So, but David, here's where you come into the story. So, and so I'm reading like comment after comment because I kept reading because I'm hoping it's going to turn around, you know, in the flow and it's someone's going, Hey, let me stick up for the piece.

Didn't happen. And so, and so I get to like comment 14 and then there's this guy who comes and it's like, Okay, you guys want the story? Yeah. I love the story. So here's the, here's the story. I happen to know some people who shared it with me. David Spade was walking down the hall and said it had a right life, and he hears sobbing,

coming from Chris Farley's office. So he goes in and goes, Chris, what's the matter? If Farley's in his desk, just crying his eyes out, and David goes, Chris, something wrong? What's happened to Billy? Is your spaghetti not here yet? Farley, Farley through his tears, is saying like tears. They want me to do this piece, and it's so humiliating, and I just don't want to do it, but I'm terrified. I'll be fired if I don't do the piece. And David says, what piece do they tell, what is this?

They want me to be naked in this chip and tail male stripper piece. And of course, the person, obviously, doesn't know that you would be fully aware of the piece. Right. But the reader. Yeah. So anyway, so according to the story, you read the script just a gas.

Yeah. As you're going through a page of a page, oh my god, oh my god. Every page of your script. Every page of your script. I know. So then you said, Chris, stay right here. You marched down to Laurence's office and said, if you air that piece, I quit. You have my job. It's not worth it. If you're going to do this kind of thing to my

friend Chris Farley, and people are going, oh my God, that's so great. It's like, spade seems like a great guy. I walk back and they go, I go, hey, Lauren doesn't want to talk to me. So I guess you're going to have to do it. I have no juice here. It's a fall of 1990 that might have been the response. Is any of that true, David? Is any of that true? Is that true?

Did you go to Lauren's office? No, I know that Chris loved that sketch and I was standing very close watching it going. I didn't I knew it was like a 10 out of 10. I didn't know that we would have the impact for years and years of like one of the best ever and he was so pumped. It was pretty early on where it solidified him as like such a star. There's no way the way he leaned into it. I love that case that if there had been any has believe me, I never would do a piece where I felt like I was asking some person to be humiliated. But Farley just was said, yeah, fuck you, I'll do it.

I'm not. Oh my God. And one of the things I really think that's what sort of bonded him with the audience. That was his fourth show. He didn't care. Oh, it was his fourth show. He didn't care. Oh, it was his fourth show. See, I knew it was early. It was early on.

And it was like, the reason I started by asking you, David, if you remember precisely when you came was because I was talking to Robert Smigel, this past summer, I suppose, and I mentioned this experience of like, man, I made the mistake. Maybe it wasn't the mistake, but I read the comments on Chip and Dale's and, whoa, boy, it was like better than 9 to 1 against. It was like, I have very few friends on that comment thread, you know? And so, and he goes, let me check. So he's tapping something out on his computer. He goes like, okay, David Spade didn't even start at the show until like was another three shows after Chip and Dale's, after Swazier.

Are you serious, really? And he goes, yeah, that's so that next time you read a comment, that's, but of course, as it turns out, Robert was wrong. Well, you know, Jim, another side story is when I went to rewrite, or you know, the Tuesday night, the host gets trotted around and we get to talk to the writers. So he was in the writers room by himself and I was coming down the hallway and it was like midnight and there's a PR person and I said hey yeah hey and I start to go and she was hi can I help you and I go oh I just want to talk to Patrick and she goes and you are

and I go uh David's face she was and what is this regarding And I go, David's face, she goes, and what is this regarding? And I go, I'm just a writer, I just want to ask you, so he's so crazy right now. What is it? And I go, he's just reading people in my magazine, I can see him. And she goes, yeah, it's a little nuts right now, if you can come back later.

And that's how he started his substance. Are you telling me that was the jazz of that? Yeah. And that was way as he show, which was, I didn't write it that way. Holy shit, I wish you'd have told me that story. I had to remember that. The resentments. David Spades, one of the people

who had been hugging this podcast the whole time. Well, this one. David, you've had so many years to tell me that. I know. No, that's, isn't that funny? That's how you're for sure. That's how you're for sure. That's how you're for sure.

It's hysterical. And, but Farley, just to put it to bed, was love that sketch crushed it, heard about it forever. Patrick's ways he was great in it. Neelan was funny. I mean, was it Neelan and Jan Hoek's? When you were, didn't you write when it was like Adrian, Barney? And then Barney keeps making faces, and it's like Barney, it's over.

It's okay. And he's still trying to learn. Barney, Barney, our decisions find. But no, by the way, let me just say, not only was it did was the impetus or the impulse to do that piece, it was because Patrick Swayze was the host. And you look at Swayze and you go, and it's a dance. And it's a dance, right? It's a perfect, written thing for a host too. Yeah. The idea that was it that that I was sitting there going like how can I exploit Farley's

Over-waitness in how can I get that on the air? How would I sketch around it? Start with the amiliation. No, I think I did one that was worse with Chris. What was that? But it never blew up like this one because Chris was game for anything. Was it the space ship? It wasn't better than anybody. But I don't remember the exact, but I remember I was Ross Perot. Chris was in it.

Maybe Frank had wrote it, but by the end I'm riding Chris. He's kinda, and I'm going, I'm gonna ride you piggy boy. Come on, I'm piggy boy. Here's it. So that one, you should be canceled. I was even asking Chris, is this okay?

And he was just laughing as I saw. He doesn't care about anything. All right, Jim, before we go, and I know you got a million things to do, but this last thing is from the end, Dana. We both know that for the people that don't realize how much you've done in the show, Dennis Miller actually said, you were the second most important person in the history of SNL behind Lauren. And I thought that was great until he said I was a flirt. So, second most important guy in the building?

Downing. Yeah, it is true. You were such a big part of that in Letterman. But this thing that lives on for you, lucky for you and your memes on Instagram all the time, is Billy Madison. You gave the greatest speech. And I think, did you help write all of Billy Madison?

Are you throwing jokes or do you just get that part? I only, only that part? Only that part. Only that part. And I was up in Toronto, not very effectively, but I was asked to work on Tommy Boy. And I was up there with Fred Wolfe. And I'm pretty sure that's one this was. Almost like. Yeah, they shot the same summer. Okay. And so Adam asked me if I would do this thing. And it's funny that we're talking about the genesis of things.

Well, the thing about Farley, if you guys remember, that's what I always used to say to Farley when he would speak at a writer's meeting. He would go, but he's going like, what about, we go like, a Crabscress, everyone's now dumber. I love you so, I hope you're happy. Are you proud? So I channeled that when I was rewriting that part and I made sure. So that was, whenever I hear that thing comes back

and it is a popular of all the things I've ever done in my life. Probably that is the one that comes back at me the most. Our producer, Greg Holtzman, says it's an important part of his childhood. So just set the scene real quickly and then what your blind that is now remember. It was kind of long though, right? It wasn't just that. Well, it was the punch punch. I know the funniest, the funniest time it ever came back at me. I was at my college, 25th reunion. And I was doing a little presentation where I showed clips from the shows. And both of you guys were represented.

You'll be glad to know. And so it was my Harvard 25th reunion. And I'm standing there. And I was there's a sort of like, it wasn't exactly backstage, it was actually outside, it was kind of like a courtyard and I was gonna be introduced and come out and it was sort of pacing like going over what I was gonna say.

And I look over and about as beautiful a girl as I've ever seen in my life. And David, if you'd seen this girl, you would have been all over that. But she was this tall, beautiful, blonde girl. She was a man about town. Yeah. But David, Dana was our, he was our player and remains our player. But anyway, so this girl comes over to me. And it's like, she actually sort of like sauntered sexually over to me me and it was like a James Bond movie, Stan Sainte, and she grabs my ear and whispers sexily into my ear the entire speech from Billy Madison, but she had it word

perfect. I didn't remember it myself. This was 1999, so it was like five or six years after the movie came out. I didn't remember it myself except the parts about everyone. It was like at no point, what in your rambling incoherent did you even close to anything that could that resemble they, and I don't remember see something

point I award you no points and everyone in this room is now dumber for having heard it. I award you no point and they got him mercy on your soul. Yeah. And that's it. That she does the whole thing perfectly. And then her father who was my classmate, steps out from a pole. We got you, my daughter, my daughter Claire. And it's just such a, such a bizarre experience to this day.

Yeah, that's that was such a great way. I'm seeing the movie that are listening. Adam Sandler's character gives a speech in the gym and it's horrible. And then Jim critiques it and it gets the last line as may God have mercy on you. Just for giving an uncoordinated speech basically. And then Steve Bussetti is up in the stands with a high powered rifle and he shoots Bradley Whitford. The bad guy. The bad guy.

And that was still, that was a lot of great people in that in that movie norm was in a reaction shot No, I'm not yeah, and That's right. We got that was a fun hang that that That summer yeah, it was called Billy Madison and we were called Billy the third you remember that and That's it the Turner's name the movie Billy the third, do you remember that? And the turner's named the movie Billy the third amid Western Tommy boy. That was what it was called. And then when Billy Madison was shooting,

we were shooting, we're like, oh shit, he's gonna come out first. We can't use Billy twice to SNL, you know, all in SNL. I did not, I didn't ever realize. I thought we used to Billy the third. I thought you were saying like it was my third priority. That's so.

No, it was. And they were shooting and we were shooting and then I was like fuck so we couldn't come up with Tommy for a while because Billy the third was it was Billy and then turned into Tommy and then I think Brian and he just called him Tommy boy and and then I didn't even like Tommy boy at the beginning. I don't know about that one but now he's kind of stuck and now I like it but that was why because Billy was taken. We both wrote a movie with Billy in the same summer.

We shot. I remember I got roped into that because I had Lauren had wanted me very badly to work on the script. I think a couple of my ideas remained, but it was really Fred. And I thought actually the funniest things in the movie were you and Fred. But anyway, there was an arbitration with the writer's guilt because I think whether or not the question is whether or not to share for Fred to get part screen credit. I said, I don't deserve it

and I don't need it and don't worry about me. But I remember that it was the first time I was ever involved in the craziness of that the committee. You know, they, they toward huge points to the names of the characters. And I go, who the fuck cares about the characters name is? Unless, isn't it? No, but who had the idea to call the guy, you know, a Brad Hartman? And I go, well, okay, that that wasn't me. Oh, really? Oh, that's you because with you he was Andy Burnett. Jim, I remember one scene you wrote in Tommy Boy that stuck with everyone. It was where Farley took off his shirt and said, look how fat I am.

Okay, that was I was I was mad at him. You're on his face. You guys would do it. I don't know if it made the final cup but I go this is Jim's you have to do it um and none of us did you threaten to quit and we always said no and then I was the one that cried and said why is Farley on so much Oh it's because the the Q ratings just came in Oh, it's because the Q ratings just came in. And then everyone knows you did all you could to keep that out. So, well, Jim, thank you.

I guess we'll go, but here before I can start, we love you. Everyone talks highly of you. I love you guys, Johnny, the one and only. Let's not let this be the only time we get together, you know? No, we'll be down. David, I got your phone number. I know. I tricked them into giving it to me. I know it's yours because of the outgoing message.

So I'm not going to say it. You know, but I was not able to take me along as time to New yesterday was rocks, was rocks birthday. Did you call them? And while I tried to, because I don't have an up to date number for them. So so I I um Marcy Klein who was texting with text me like, Hey um you know it's Chris Rock's birthday and it's funny because I just had dinner Sunday night with Tim Meadows and Tim told me well my birthday was yesterday. Oh sure. It's coming up. So I was aware and I know Marcy Klein talks to Chris all the time. And so, and so Marcy had sent me a text

about something else. I go, Hey, um, and she goes, and you know, it's Chris Rock's birthday. And I go, Hey, well, send me send me his number of texts and happy birthday. And then there's like nothing. There's no response. And then I get a text like, I'll hook you up. I was coming with a meaning. I she doesn't want me to have to have her. She doesn't want to give me his phone. It loves you. So I just texted her back saying, you know, maybe after I've been at the show a few more years, you know, by the way, Jim, this is like, it's back then.

It's me and you and Dana talking like what? I saw Rocky the night meadows and Marcy Klein. This is like we're all talking still from We didn't want to make you nervous Jim, but the actual working title for this podcast is the hot seat But we didn't want to let you know we don't have enough gotcha moments I did not know that because I wouldn't Know Jim you're great. I know that Anything you say is interesting about old SNL and everyone loves to hear it. But we'll talk soon and drink you for comedy.

Oh, we're gonna be talking. We're gonna be talking. All right, guys. I'll be on the phone. That's what we're doing. Okay guys, that was nice. Bye, bye. Hey, what's up, flies?

What's up, please? What's up, people that listen? We want to hear from you and your dumb questions. Questions? Ask us anything. Anything you want. You can email us at flyin'thewallatcadens13.com. Hey, Alex, Alex May. Alex wants to know what your experience was like living in New York City back in the SNL days. Figured you were at 30 Rock all the time, but curious what New York stories you've got

and whether you liked it or not. He loves our show. That's like a 45 minute answer. I know, that is a small book. It's like a hundred-pageer. When I got out there, I was my brother, Annie, and Katie. They lived up in the Upper West Side, so I moved up there. And I didn't really know anyone.

And a lot of people lived in the Upper West Side, Dana Carvey, Dennis Miller, Mike Miller. Where were you? I was like 84th and West End. And so I had a dinky little dump and it was tough living up there. I'm from Arizona, so the living in through the winters and not my hair got brown within minutes. What happened is my hair was always white because I was in the sun, I was in Arizona,

and then in New York, it's only sunny for about 10 minutes a day because the sun goes between the buildings and it comes straight down on your winter. And it's shadowy, it's freezing. So, Harry got dark, didn't eat well, and love New York, but the experience was really just being in the building, we didn't do anything other than that. Well, first of all, I was there before I did SNI. I worked in Rockefeller Center in 1981 with

Mickey Rune and Nathan Lane. And I got an apartment on Lexington Avenue. And they told me that Robert Redford edited ordinary people in the apartment. And I said, yeah, right. Six years later, I'm doing a movie with Bert Landcashner and Kirk Douglas director says oh I was a editor I I edited ordinary people with Robert Redford where did you edit it at that was the apartment we can cut that one here's one then for a calendar like that that's a real answer I these are long stories but the you'd go to a movie and it's like 65 you'd come out of the movie and it's 25 I'd never experienced yeah yeah getting caps like I didn't have a and it's like 65. You'd come out of the movie and it's 25. I'd never experienced that.

Degree's yeah. Yeah. Getting cabs, like I didn't have a car service any time. So just getting to SNL on Saturday. Yeah, that was snowing. Very weird. Trying to get cabs was really difficult. I would say experientially Rockefeller Center

is just the coolest, the weirdest, kind of almost haunting building all the history of it. And there's nothing like being in New York City, doing well on Saturday night live. That's the most intense thing you could have. And I don't know if I'm the first one to think of this, but if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere. In where in New York?

Yeah, New York, New York. I mean, it's, you know, these old vagabond shoes, I had, should I start spreading that news? You know, I think that's a good idea. New York, New York, let me tell you. Thank you, Alex. That was a great question. Thank you.

Fly in the Wall has been a presentation of Cadence 13. Please listen, then rate, review, and follow all episodes. Executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Chris Corquan of Cadence 13 and Charlie Finan of Brillstein Entertainment, production and engineering led by Greg Holtzmann, Richard Cook, Serena Regan, and Chris Basel of Cadence 13.