Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade - Michael McKean Returns… Just Like Spinal Tap

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

Dana and David welcome back comedy legend Michael McKean for a ride through Hollywood and SNL stories. From the quirks of Saturday Night residual checks to Dan Aykroyd’s fascination with space and the occult. Michael dishes fresh Conehead tales, recalls the time he told Howard Stern that all morning radio men should be killed, and rattles off must-see movies—though no matter where the chat goes, it always circles back to Spinal Tap. To top it off, McKean shares what it was like to work with the GOAT himself: Paul McCartney. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Discover the magic of BetMGM Casino, where the excitement is always on deck. Pull up a seat and check out a wide variety of table games with live dealer. From roulette to Blackjack, watch as a dealer host your table game and live chat with them throughout your experience to feel like you are actually at the casino. The excitement doesn't stop there with over 3,000 games to choose from, including fan favorites like cash eruption, UFC Gold Blitz, and more. Make deposits instantly to jump in on the fun and make same-day withdrawals if you win. Download the BetMGM Ontario app today. If you don't want to miss out, visit betmgm.com for terms and conditions. 19 plus to wager, Ontario only.

Please gamble responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact ConX Ontario at 1-866-531-2-600 to speak to an advisor, free of charge. bed MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario you know dana i always say rackum after i say like a 10 out of 10 joke that reminds me of rackettin if you're shopping while working eating or even listening to this podcast then you know and love the thrill of the hunt but are you getting the thrill of the best deals racketon shoppers do they get brands they love with the most savings and cash back and you can too start getting cashed

cash back at your favorite stores like Uniclo, Best Buy, and Expedia. And even stack sales on top of cashback. It's easy to use. And you get your cash back through PayPal or check. The idea is simple. Stores pay Rackettin for sending them shoppers, and Rackettin shares the money with you as cash back. Download the free Racketon app and never miss a deal, or go to Racketon.

dot CA to start getting the most bang for your buck. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N, Racketon.C-A. And then he started talking about what they had seen in the sky from just right here, really late at night, you know, when the storefront windows go out, you can really see all the action up there. And God, I love you, Dan Ackler. The first time I spoke with Howard Stern,

I said, you must know going in that I think all morning men on the radio should be killed. that I told him that so we're good I just spent the first part of the morning listening to Paul McCartney

sing a song that I wrote that's something that I never thought would happen to me we got Michael McKeon Dana who was a friend of mine we did the movie Connets together we did S&L together

He was on SNL He's done One million things in show business. He's part of a lot of the Christopher Guest movies, namely Spinal Tap, which we are discussing the sequel coming out. Very exciting. Spinal Tap 2, which I'm excited to talk to him about that, because I do think it's a great time to bring it out.

The trailer I saw was super funny. So he's a great storyteller, and that's fun to have him. Yeah, he's great. We've had him once. They're having him again. And you know what I thought was it would be a good title for a sequel, Dana? Yes. The end of the beginning.

That's kind of funny. I thought it should be called it's one higher. Oh yeah. Because two is more than one. 11. That's what he says in the movie, right? Yeah. We have our speakers.

What do they do? They write it to 11. Yeah. But it still, it could be 10 full blasts. It's like a little math question. He goes, oh, he's one all you. It's one higher. Why don't you make 10 the highest?

Right, but it's one higher. This is in the trailer. It's one higher. You know, that's what's the best. Anyway, you'll crack up. Michael McKeon has a lot to say, and here he is. Am I early boys? No way.

I feel like I'm in a Western, and you just walked into a saloon. Am I? That's a stranger. I know you, stranger. Desry rides a. again, Destry with Audie Murphy, I think it was. Yes, it was Jimmy Stewart first. And I'll tell you, since you brought it up, the guy who created, yes.

The guy who created Destry also created another famous character, Dr. Kildare. Really? Yes, his name was Max Brand, not his real name, his real name was Felix Faust. It gets weirder. But he wrote Desry Rides again and a couple of more starring him. And he created Dr. Kildare. I follow him on TikTok. This is the kind of the thing that I didn't know about as a younger person.

Like, okay, so Bob Odenkirk were doing a Western writing the script. And it comes out brilliant. It's so fucking funny, but it's really, really out there. You know, the studio goes, what? And I just thought I watch movies now and directors talk about it. Obviously, Quentin Tarantino, you would take Desry rides again. because I play an Irish guy who's all herder of the West and it's really fast with guns but super humble

and I come to the town like this, you know, and John Lovitz is being, he's hanging, he's about to hang him and he's next to signs that he put up. If I don't clean up the town, you can hang me. You know, he won't. So it was that kind of, it was great, but I look at the nuts and bolts of a guy coming off the stage coach and everyone thinking he's kind of fay

or whatever the word would be at the time. And he's lethal. Anyway, I don't know what I don't have his hand. But you're in a film. You make films. You're, what don't you? You write songs, you sing. What can't?

What can't me? What can I do? Yeah. As an artist. Stray too far from the bathroom is the sad issue. Yeah. Michael used to always say he's a. Blatter. Have you met my aunt bladder?

She's a, she's a frisky one. She has a, she needs a lot of attention. Oh, Aunt Blabby? Or Aunt Blabby, but I'm saying I tried to get an ant. I like these switch there. Nice, nice. So, so good to have you back. Nice to have you.

Michael might be our maybe second return guest. That's all. Second. Well, we had a slight delay last time. We were with a difference. So now we have you just. like this. We had a slight delay, which was very frustrating, because you would go, you know what I hate? And then your mouth would move. And then you go, you see what I mean? And then we had to respond. Well, I just got off the line with three different people who were

interviewing us. We were in character as our spinal tap guys. And so we had a little picture of this guy and watching him try and stretch 20 minutes worth of questions into 45 minutes. work questions because he had us for all that time. So we got to watch him thinking about the next question and then realizing, realizing he was frozen. And so we're thinking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so anyway, you guys, you're a refreshing change from a from a junket. Well, who gets a junket? Good. We've been in the battle lines. I was in Spiney One. I don't know what the nickname is on I was in Spiney One as the Mime Waiter and now... Yes, you were. Yes, you were.

And now you've been told this, but the trailer is really fucking funny. I love it. Good, good. For two. Do you remember the character that you came in for? The drummer? No. You came in to... There was a character in the original version when we were first working on it called the Taphead. And he's just this guy who follows the band around.

and he kept showing up and then we thought he's a little overqualified to be that guy we really need more of a found object and then we had the idea for the mime thing and we said let's get this guy he's great now you know who we did cast

as the taphead was Eddie Deeson Eddie Deeson Oh is he in Greece? He may have been in Greece Was he the nerd? Good choice He was a nerd in everything

Was he the nerd from he was 65 did yeah yeah and he also historically here's an interesting point probably not interesting at all he was the earner of the one billionth dollar in residuals oh trivia the one billionth dollar of tribute of uh of uh payouts from residuals in motion pictures and michael i think you know petty or how do they know there's a bar called residuals for the people at home uh in the valley if you bring a check in for under a dollar they put it on the wall is that true free drink yeah it's called residuals and it's in a little strip mall i've been there many times no matter how small it is

if you ever look at uh you know your monthly expenses and and you know the debits and the credits and you see a buck 30 for for something you did it's kind of I'm like, all right, kicking it, man. They're paying. You know, my accountant was, I used to get, go. Are you sure? I'm the guest. I'm the guest.

Let me go. So I get these checks from now, like host, Alec Baldwin, host Tom Hanks, and they're probably three cents each. But my accountant goes, can you just tell them to send you one check for a dollar? Because we have to process every single one. And then we've got to put in like 300 checks. Just tell them to round it. up to five bucks and called it one check what were you get what's your residual story well it's it's it's

just it's not been interesting it's just i used to do the pyramid game show back in the 70s and so every time in the beginning of the 20 000 pyramid or which yeah yeah i'm out of pyramid they would have some celebrity wins so they'd have me or billy crystal or um you know uh Suzanne Summers, whoever it was, jumping up and down with the civilian that they just won the big money with. So they'd show three of those, and I would get paid for those.

I would get paid. And it was, again, it was a 48 cents a pop or something. But it was sort of lovely. It was like, it's not only, I'm not in that show. I'm in the part of the show where people are just getting their coffee

and sitting down. It's like a montage. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. You know, it's great. It shows you that SAG or the writers, is working because someone's out there chasing to make sure they give you what you're supposed to get

with whatever deal you made, which you don't even remember. I have a good one. Yeah, go. So they're doing a, it's an animated thing or it's dogs, I think. It's actual dog and you do the voice. So a famous actor, I won't say, really famous. They didn't like the way he did his reading. So they brought me in, but it was already his mouth was there.

So I had to match his rhythms, and I kept saying, this isn't going to work, isn't going to work. So they got someone else or whatever, but then somehow I got into getting checks. And these are tens of thousands of dollar checks. That's excellent. And I said to my people, I go, I'm getting these checks. And he said, just put it in a drawer. Don't tell anybody. I don't know how much I got, but it was big.

And people are going to think, like, well, what was the name of the movie and who was the actor? But anyway, that's my residual story. I think I kind of mic down these stories. Well, all three of our stories tepid, but that's fine. We're getting one. Yeah, I don't have a better one. Okay, so BetMGM, Dana, you know, I'm a little bit of a gambler. And I do like football.

And that's coming up. And bet MGM is some, you know, one of our partners. And it's great because for the football fans, if you register with BetMGM, you can keep the good times rolling all season long. This football season, new customers can download the BetMGM app and sign up to receive up to $1,500 in bonus bets. Oh, I could use that with Code Fly if they don't win their first bet, if they don't. Yes, that's absolutely right, David. You can access to second chance provost, odds boost tokens. tokens and same game parlays.

This is Michael Cain, and I think it's a great deal. But MGM original fetch, special boosts and tokens, and so much more. Oh, yeah. You know, Michael, a lot of new features are coming soon, like dark mode, and also live, same game parlays. From kickoff to the winning field goal, there's more ways than ever to supercharge your excitement. Yeah, absolutely right, David.

Yes, thank you. I must say, I must say. I don't know why I like it so much, but I enjoy the hard-hitting American football thrills. All season, Bat MGM. And, you know, David, you won't want to miss it. It's absolutely amazing, right? You know what, Michael.

I know you're probably not computer savvy, but you can tag BetMGM across your socials. You can do at BetMGM, or you can just go to betmgm.com. BetMGM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly. See betmgm.com for terms 21 plus only. This specific promotional offer is not available in Michigan, Mississippi, New Jersey, New York, Nevada, Ontario, Pennsylvania, Puerto Rico, or West Virginia. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler. Available in the U.S. for New York, 8778, Hope, N.Y, or text, Hope, N.Y, 469.

For Arizona, 1-800, next step. For Massachusetts, 1-800-327-50-50. For Iowa, 1-800-bets-off. For Puerto Rico, 1-800-9-1-00-2-3. First bet offer for new customers only, subject to eligibility requirements. Rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in seven days

in partnership with Kansas Crossing, casino, and hotel. All right, Dana, you know I'm always dragging around and I always got a five-hour energy on me. Mm-hmm. I know that. Yeah, they're either in my sock, in the car, or somewhere. You keep them everywhere. I give them a little slurp.

I don't really shoot the whole thing like some people, they want an empty stomach. I think I eat a little bit, a couple of sips, just like coffee. Just keep something going there. You don't chug it. I don't. I'm actually, I don't want that much energy at once. It's five hours, so I kind of, you know, that's what most people do. But I sip it overall.

There's a lot of different flavors. Yeah, there's one called a confetti craze. It tastes like a good birthday cake, which they're all pretty good. But this tastes great. vanilla and buttery flavor here to let you be unapologetically extra and unstoppably energized, actually. Big birthday energy, wherever you go. The shots are reasonable. You don't have to chug a full bottle or anything.

Just run around with that big birthday energy. Yeah. And you can plan your confetti party at www.5 hour energy.com or Amazon. That's available now, you know what I mean? So you can get on five hour energy. That's the number five hour energy. com or Amazon. And lease your big birthday party energy.

As much caffeine as 12 ounces of your fancy coffee, but zero sugar and zero sugar crash. Yeah, and I'm not like a coffee guy, so this is kind of better for me. You're a five-hour energy confetti craze guy. Five-hour energy confetti-craze flavor is available online. Head to www.5hourenergy.com or Amazon to order yours today. What was the first time you knew you had a million dollars? It was the first year where you go, I think I have a million dollars. You don't have to answer.

to that. I just coming off. I've always, no, I've always, I don't really know. I don't really know. I mean, are you counting real estate? I don't know. Well, for sure. One actor, until he got on Marvel, Paul Ruddman, we were just asking him these kind of questions, just for fun. And he just basically said, until Ant Man, you know, he had his character parts. He was doing well, but, you know, how the taxes and all the stuff. Yeah, yeah. And all these things that people take out of all the places. And so it was surprising, but you never know where it's going to come from.

That's kind of a, put it this way. What was the job that paid you way more than you thought you were going to get paid? Lenny. Well, that was, Lenny and Squiggy. That was, we started out. I wasn't even in SAG. David Lander and I did those characters as part of the credibility gap, Harry Shearer and Richard Beebe.

Oh, that's what started. Before Laverne and Shirley were in. Before that, David and I did those characters in college at Carnegie and Pittsburgh. Jesus. Yeah. And nine years later, we did them on TV. So it was a little different, and they wanted to pay us like it was not even a big deal. They couldn't give me the part until they auditioned at least one SAG actor.

And I'm going to tell you who it was. Oh, good. Well, it was a guy who knew he wasn't going to get the part. It was already, no, we got this guy, but he doesn't have a side card. So we're going to, we have to audition somebody else, and would you do it, Tim Thomerson? Did we remember Tim Thomerson? I remember Tim Thomerson. Yeah, of course.

Yeah. Very, very sweet guy. Big funny character, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And he had a little part on Happy Days or something right next door. So they auditioned him knowing, and he knew, he knew, no, I'll read for it. You know, and it was him trying to do this guy, you know. It's basically.

every audition I had because I just didn't get it. So I wish they told me ahead of time, you're just not going to get it because he walks out like this. At least he goes, here you go. I'll do you guys a favor. I'm going to basically right. I for sure did a hundred in a row where I didn't get it. Oh, yeah.

Oh, easy. In the early 18th, that's why when Spinal Tap, oh, you didn't get it. And then they go, oh, they want you in the movie. You're going to be in a scene with Billy Crystal. At that time of my life, that was like, fuck. Let's go to Sizzler's steakhouse. honey well the weirdest one was Howard Hesman his part didn't even exist 24 hours before he shot it whoa we had hired you know the scene at Howard Hesman in in

spinal tap they're in the lobby and he's the manager of this rocker who never really speaks so we had hired this rock and roll guy and we while he was being fitted for wardrobe the day before we realized the guy could barely fucking talk he just not only couldn't act he was just like kind of preverbal and scared shitless. So Rob goes. Just a long hair. Preverb.

Yeah, exactly. And Rob, Rob goes, you know what we should do? We should get him a manager. I'm going to call Howard Hessman. So we called Hessman. Talk to him for about 10 minutes on the phone.

And Howard came in, fucking aced it, of course. And killed us. Just brilliant man. Great adjusting while you go. Like those things happen. No one knows about it.

I had to do that. Yeah. Well, that was that whole movie. and I'm wondering about the style of this one. I assume it's the same. You've got Rob Reiner, and that was the sense that you guys did.

I guess there was more than a, there was an actual script. It wasn't just bullet points and you'll improvise, but how much improvisation was there? Or was it very specific? Then the first one and then this one. There were two written lines in the first film. That answer is my question.

Live, live direct from hell, spinal tap was written the guy at the very beginning and Patrick Patrick McNeese toast and so say we all tap into America that was written

everything else was improvised That's what I thought You know that's what I remember And they go there's a movie there Build it around it We pitched us We pitched one where we said Yeah we'll write the script

And we tried for about a day and a half To write the script and we said Man this is not fun and it's not going to yield what we want. We want it to be like it's a thing that's really happening. So we said, well, let's just a nice thick Bible of who these guys are, who they've been throughout the years, what their relationships are now, and then go. And we broke it down.

We got a big map of the U.S., and we tagged the route of the tour with Post-it notes and wrote a lot of things on the back of Grimsby's, we called them, because they were postcards that had pictures of Russian. Roger Grimsby, the ABC newscaster, on them. And she remember that. We used to trade him as kids, right? And so we wrote the whole movie on the back of these Grimsby's. And that was, you know, some jokes, you know, some like maybe try this.

Well, yeah, I'm sure you go, you have to kind of beat it out and going, no, no, now the beginning's too heavy. Or just done in the editing, like you go as much as we can everywhere and it's five hours or something. Then you've got to start going. you just feel it for comedy and if you have guys that are extremely talented sorry i had to say that but it might be embarrassing but it was just so popped so hard you know it's just one higher and all this stuff you all all you guys did i Kevin pollock and i did a cockney british or sort of

a spinal tab accent whenever for like a couple years we actually played blackjack we were playing harris and we were up there just you know doing that all that you know going we're just possessed by that movie like a lot of people and so I was thrilled and I'll let you talk after this that there's a sequel now because it's the perfect time because all these other bands are out there long in the tooth yeah so it like it wouldn't have been a sequel in the 80s wouldn't this is very funny and that that's why it really hit me hard like oh this is what who they are now is so funny so anyway talk to that you have you have to understand what other thing when the film came out you probably know this it was not a huge box office success

no and it didn't really find its legs until it took off on home video and people would talk about it like it was oh you got to see this weird fucking comedy and uh so we kind of we kind of picked up a little steam that way so three or four years down the line they started talking about doing a sequel and we said no i think we told the tale i think we we got it we briefly talked about doing a a making a film that reportedly had happened 20 years before in the 60s when they were young pop stars and there was

this piece of shit exploitation film built around them which was a funny idea but we were all cresting 40 at that point to say no they don't have the tech to make us look any younger so they do now but the other thing is timing wise

we did not have the rights to this material. We had to make phone calls and make deals with people to go final tap to record a spinal tap, make personal appearances, you know, in some kind of make some foreign commercials, which didn't amount to much. We had to make these deals. And so Harry Shearer, who has what we call Simpsons money, I, yeah. He's just, guys, I'll do the I'll do the stuff. We're going to sue them. We're going to get the rights back and we did and we did and then we said well now it's like the dog who chases the car he finally catches what they can do yeah now we'll make a big a fucking movie i guess so we you know we made

this film and it was kind of the reunion that the read the guys are dragged kicking and screaming to a to a reunion they really have no regard for one another a lot of bad blood and we thought maybe that would be the premise and do a big show and maybe get some guests stars in, which we were very lucky that shared the area. People jumped in a lot for sure. Yeah, it was fun. And also just minimal script or outline and just

plant being playful. Yeah. Did you because because spinal tap exists, then you're doing spinal tap two. What was the mindset of that? Like, let's go to where we go before. Now we're doing something different or it was just instantly different. because 40 years makes it different you know well it's also where the characters are now 40 years

down the road of having this hatchet job which we assumed he only shot the only showed us with the bad shit he only showed us when things were going wrong he only showed us when we couldn't find the stage and all this stuff what about the night we could find this day so we we had a lot of animosity and alleged lawsuits and everything but then we're reunited with marty de burghie We make the best of a bad situation, and we just go ahead and make the film. I still, to this day, I don't know, if I'm at a theater or something and get tangled up or kind of lost,

I always say I feel like I'm in spinal tap. It is one of those things that is a real thing, but it was so funny the way you guys did it in the movie. I play theaters. I think I'm in Kandahar. I'm like underneath, and they go, this was built a hundred years ago. I go, minimum.

And there's no, they're like, there's no working water, there's no elevators. We just sort of wing it. Well, then you ask the guy, you go, excuse me, because you don't, it's kind of passive aggressive, but is there a way to get to the stage because I'm going on? Oh, you want to go on the stage? Oh, you go down, you know. Yeah, I hear my intro music.

They're like, oh, that's, you go up these hundred steps. I'm always winded. Jeff Beck and Eric Clapton actually had that experience together. they were playing at BB Kings 75th birthday party at the Apollo and they got lost beneath the stage and then Jeff said yeah at one point we just looked at each other and went we're in that fucking movie so you guys just thought of that or was it based on something like that that happened to somebody it just seemed funny I don't remember what the source of those theaters are so it did show up it did show up in a Tom Petty documentary

where they got, it was this huge German entertainment complex in Stuttgart or someplace, and they kept walking into tennis courts and stuff. But that happened after the movie, but before the movie came out. We had shot the film, and then we saw the Tom Petty and they, oh, we got that right. Sometimes they say, you don't want to go through the crowd, right?

And I'm like, before I go, I'd rather not. And I go, okay, we can figure this out. And then they don't know. Yeah, yeah. So you're like in the kitchen. and then you're in the pantry and then you're in the attic and I'm like,

we're trying to get to the stage, right? I don't know what you guys are doing. I'm trying to, I got a show in about three minutes. So it makes you nervous because you're about to go on and you want to,

I have to think about my high quality jokes, you know. They are high quality. You have high quality. You have high quality jokes now. Good way. I'm glad you went in that direction. I changed it,

yeah. I went, Michael and I spent a really nice chunk of time on cone heads where I tried to give him the me's, no, Do you remember this story? I think I told you that I whispered to the PA.

Don't tell anyone, but I think I have, I do have a chicken pox. So we're going to try to keep this kind of, he's like, oh, for sure, boop alarms. So cleared the set. And then I only had them like, it was so weird. Anyway, we talked with Nick Kroll yesterday. We were talking about cone heads because they said you were coming on. start laughing at cone heads and how many people were in and how many celebrity cameos it's pretty crazy yeah and and how uh we were kind of the bad guys in that but there it was pretty

fun to do it was kind of it was really fun to be a part of dan acroyd doing cone heads again and all that stuff so do you remember the day that he lost his temper and tore his head off because he had some friends coming we had some friends coming we had some friends coming and they tied him up at the gate. Wouldn't let the guys in. There was a couple of his biker pals, as I recall. So he heard about this. God damn it.

God damn. He curses so like a Canadian. God damn it. And he reached up and he ripped the top of his head off. And I thought, man, if this, yeah. And it was just this white foam rubber under there. Foam everywhere, yeah. Scary, yeah.

And he's tossed off. And looking like that, he went out to the, you know, the booth there, the guard gate, and he ripped the phone off the wall. He's pretty big guy. I'm making this up. He's a big guy, yeah. And that's solved everything. It was mad.

Yeah, and Dan doesn't get mad to it. I mean, we did that whole movie. No, no, no. No, he's Canadian mellow. Sweetheart. You know, you know, the houses are haunted. You know, there's a cult of a spies. You know, he loves outer space paranormal.

And it's fun. fun to be around a guy, that talent, that talented and iconic, and he really wants to talk about, you know, the other things and haunted rooms, and he's very passionate about it. But my aliens are here already. Yeah, oh, yeah, no, no. Oh, believe me. No, there is proof. There is proof.

His brother, his brother lived right above the Chateau Marmau. Peter. Okay, yeah, I think I remember this. And we went after shooting one. Maybe you were with us. We went to watch Dateline, not Dateline, what's the show, Nightline, the ABC show. With Ted Koppel in the early days. Ted Koppel.

And so he said, we're all going to go, look, we're going to watch Ted Koppel. But come on over to the house first. We'll go up on Peter's roof. And maybe we'll try some of this stuff that we got. It's a real buffalo weed, he called it. And it was. It was three toks, and I was catatonic. But I too remember not being able to speak or move.

And he comes up and he says, uh, Michael, uh, Ted Cople's on. So we're going to go watch Ted Cople. Would you like to come down with us? He was like, afraid I was going to like levitate or something. And I said, no, I'm, I'm good here. I'm good here. And then he started talking about what they had seen in the sky from just right here, really late at night, you know, when the storefront windows go out. You can really see all the action up there. And God, I love you, Dan Aykroy. He's so great. He goes there. You see him every day. You saw him one at the Grove today at Zara. They're here. You know, you're You go in the room and you know that it's haunted and you don't want to be afraid because you know, the spirits are not giving off that vibe.

Have you? You know, I don't think I've ever thrown any costume off in a fit. Have you ever torn any? Well, Garth. You know, when you're on S&L, Lauren, I'm telling you. No. No, I haven't. I was there for such a short period of time.

Yes. And it was really like I was kind of breaking the job in just as I. I was handed the walking papers, you know. So I did, we were ever quite sure of whether I had any power or not. How many shows did you do? 26. Like a full, a little bit. Was that a season and more?

It was a season. It was the last six of the season before. Was Mark McKinney with you? Yeah, in the middle of the second season, yeah. Okay. One of the nicest men in the world, right? Yeah. Mark, pretty much.

Awesome guy. Awesome guy. and another Canadian. It must be something in the water. Wife's Canadian. No, full disclosure. My wife's from Canada. Born in Canada.

Mine's from Texas, so. Oh, okay. Whoa. What does that mean? I don't know. Whatever that means, yeah. Woo! It means nothing.

She knows where the good Mexican food is in Houston. So it's a big plus as far as I'm concerned. So how do you get, let go of SNL, what happens? You know what? It was,

they were just kind of cleaning house. They kept you. We had a lot of people though. There was, that was one of those years

with like 22 people were involved. This is 94-5 kind of or? 94-5, yeah. And they know, Farley was leaving, Adam was leaving.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. They decided to go, and I'll tell you this, I always say this, I followed the very best impression

of Clinton. It was Paul, Phil, Phil. Phil. Yeah, Phil. Easily the best ever. I followed his with mine, which was just sort of an overweight Barney Fife. It wasn't a good Clinton. And I was followed by, I was followed by Daryl, who did the second best. Yeah, Darrell. Darrell has an ear. So, you know, part of it was being hired to play your dad, David, to be the older president. that they were going to miss when Phil left. But, you know, Phil took a lot more with him than just one thing. He was remarkable.

You guys ever have things that pop up that you sort of are somewhere in your mind of you feel, had a weird feeling about it. So I had it with you. When I was guest hosting, it's late in the show, I'm overwhelmed. I don't know between dressing air or the day of the show, but Lauren and you came in and you had a really good Howard Stern. And it was like saying if I was interested in doing that. And I was just too overwhelmed to say yes, but I felt, it felt strange to me when I think of it now because of you, my fondness for you.

And also that you were incredibly famous when I was still a waiter, basically. So, um, on Laverne and Shirley. So anyway, I don't know if you remember that, you know, but I don't. I never heard your Howard Stern, but I did Howard on the fifth show of the first six that I did. Okay. And it went really well. and Howard loved it, and he, you know, I've been on his show a bunch of times before. And I have a pretty good, I always had a pretty good relationship with him because I told him, the first time I spoke with Howard Stern, I said, you must know going in that I think all morning men on the radio should be killed.

But I told him that. So we're good. You love that. Yeah, for sure. And he did love the impression, which was nice. And I wasn't eager to jump right in with more Howard Stone. I was, I wanted to do a lot of different stuff, you know, I had, and, you know, I had, I think I pitched one other thing, but I, I didn't love the idea of anybody, a kind of like, if I remember

anything about that moment, it's that it felt thrown in. And, I think it was kind of a Hail Mary or last minute to fill some cap on a cold opening or something. I don't know. Yeah, I don't, don't remember. Yeah. You know, you know, you. had a good move, which was, I always remember, a tiny thing about Stern when he laughs, she went, it was a different thing I hadn't heard. Yeah, and I was like, oh, that's right. When you hear stuff like that and you, I listen to him so much and I go, oh, no one's done that. That's great. It's hard to find those little tiny hooks. I'm not a big impression guy. I mean, I did like five people on total, you know, but I did

do the best George Will, you know. Dana's George Will is excellent, too. I remember hearing that. You know, I mean, in recent times, like Cape McGinnon, which was very funny, I mean, she would be doing somebody who was the mayor of New York during 9-11, sorry. Giuliani? Giuliani, and she would just, she'd play him like a Batman character. Like, I'm Giuliani.

And so there was like true impression. If you take it almost like art or abstractionism, like I'm not even going to attempt, but I'm going to do something that feels like this guy. And I always loved impressions that aren't super accurate, but have something about them that's even better than the actual. Because now, as you know, Newsflash, AI could do the greatest, AI is the greatest impressionist in the world if copying is. Yeah, it's going to kill us all.

And you also. So what I love about Bill Hader's impressions is they're always accurate enough to make you go, oh, fucking, he's nailing. And you realize he's going to go a little wide with it. And it's going to stay as, I guess, is Vincent Price or his Keith Morrison. Keith Morrison. Because of that weird, like, devilish smile. Like he was taking so much glee in it.

So that, yeah, we love Bill Hader. He's, you know, he's a, at the beginning of S&L, they would have Chevy Chase, which some people remember in the old days did, or they would do Gerald Ford as himself. He would just say, I'm the president. I'd wear a suit. And I think Nixon by, yeah, Akroyd was the same thing. So now it's so good those departments of making you look 99% like the person already. Well, no one told the, no one suggested that Dan shave his mustache. So he was mixing with a mustache. And, you know, and they couldn't talk him out of the stash. That was probably coming from like improv or something where you go, right, went with the bike. But like he was an improv, they just get up and go, you're doing this and this. And they go, you don't need all that.

Yeah. Well, there's a reminder about, I'm reading a book now by Jeffrey Sweet. And it's a re, it's a, a revamped version of a book he wrote in 78 called Something Wonderful Right Away, which is the story of Second City, starting with the compass players before, starting with Viola Spolin, really the early days where you were lucky to have a chair and a table. And, you know, I think that that's what you said is very true.

Nobody's expecting us to look exactly like Nixon at this point. I'm doing my really funny Nixon. And it works. Yeah, and it works. And it's great. Because you didn't know they could do all this makeup. And then suddenly, just over time, it just evolves. And it's very good.

By the way, you did the Invisible Man with Chevy Chase? Is that true? It did, yeah. Well, how was that? That was right when it was during his full heyday. He was a big star. Well, it was 92, I guess. I still remember when that came out.

And it was John Carpenter, who I really liked a lot. We had a lot of fun because I was a big fan of, you know, of his stuff, the thing, especially. No, I was just going to. Maybe the best Yeah, the thing is Maybe the best science fiction horror film of all time Is that right?

I would have no argument with that. Wilford Brimley It was first time I'd seen him Just this brilliant presence And Kurt Russell and Dickie Mazur And all these horrible dogs Who would explode on us It was just great

Yeah, and I told them I was down Yeah I actually got into it And I said, I'm going to tell you Why that movie wasn't a hit. Because there's no girls in it. Girls are not going to go see this movie unless there's a dame in trouble, unless they have

someone to pull for. This is a bunch of fucking bros who are getting their asses kicked from the inside by these horrible creatures. There was no, no woman in trouble. And he thought about it and he goes, nah, no, it's bullshit. Well, you know what? You know what? Kind of a sister movie in some ways, different, but it was alien during that era.

and they had Sigourney Weaver and her little panties at the end. Achilla, Kila, Kila, to calm herself down. I just love that movie too, man. Oh, yeah, fantastic. Yeah. Yeah, you like movies.

Yeah. I do. I do. I saw a good movie on the plane called Black Bag, and it's Kate Blanchette. Saw it. Soderberg.

Yeah, yeah. And one thing I really liked it, It's a very complicated spy thing with a lot of, you know, where's your loyalties and all this stuff? And there's married couples and there's couples who are seeing each other. And they're all involved in this. One of us is a real shitbag here. And it's an hour and 33 minutes. Thank you, Jesus.

We can watch something else now or we can take a nap. It's great. Not every movie has to be two and a half hours. Yeah. But they are. Very much. They are. No. And then you had in previews, get lost.

I was in a 70-minute movie called Master Disguise, sort of a bizarre kid's film that's a whole story behind. 70 minutes was cut down, and then you have 15 minutes of outtakes. Yeah. The credit roll was 15. That's not bad, though. And it was Jennifer Esposito's first really good role. Wow. And she was adorable in that film.

Yeah, she's a lot. Oh, yeah, very likable. She just directed a film. Did she? Last year, didn't get much of a release, but it's not bad. It's really pretty good click. How do movies get seen and released? I mean, it's just, it's hard to, there's so much, I don't know.

What are you two? Do your wife watch stuff together, like live streaming shows that you like? Did you know, what are the recent ones? I'm always looking for something. Did you see Code of Silence? Code of Silence on Brit Box. Very good, very good. Okay, I haven't seen that.

I'll tell you anything about it. Britbox, yes. No, it's good. It's good. What else we like? Yeah. Well, we like husbands and neighbors. We like John Hams.

One was good on Apple, like John Hens. One was good on Apple, like John. Oh, friends and neighbors. Yeah, I thought it was a great use, just like a perfect part for John, you know? Yeah. He was great in it. He's great in it. I started that alien Earth, but I don't know.

You have to be in the alien. I know, I know. It seems like, you don't have seen the first 14. Okay, Brit Box. I know Britt Box. What was the name of it again? Code something? Code of silence.

Code of silence. Okay. I'm going to go for Black Bag after this. A lot of great. Yeah, black bag is excellent, too. Yeah. Who is, I got a question. Who is in Earth Girls or Easy?

Was that Jim Carrey? Jim Carrey, Damon Wayne. Damon Wayans? Yep. Oh, yeah, yeah. They were the three. They were the three leads. And they were aliens?

Yeah. They were aliens who cleaned up their act. and Gina Dana Davis was the girl she was the girlfriend and Julie Brown was kind of the sidekick

and she wrote the film for herself yeah no no no no no that's up town I'm talking like brown hair I know who you're talking about yeah yeah she did a very funny

Madonna parody no I remember Medusa yeah she was really great and is great yeah she wrote it and the very sad the very sad Charlie Rocket was also in it

and I'm not going to tell I'm not going to tell his sad story but you can you can find it one of the best show business names you could ever if it was a real name Charlie Rocket you never forget and he was fired from S&L because

F word right F word on the air yeah huh yeah I think it's been sad since I would have kept him I fought for him. One thing I was just curious about to our basic theme of Spinal Tap 2 is how much you guys interacted as friends or whatever or did concerts or charity events or, you know, did gigs.

How much were you in touch with this brand over the years? Commercials or whatever. When were you, what did you do during this time period with spinal? Tap, if anything, you know. We made, well, we did a Mighty Wind, and our characters from a Mighty Wind did a couple of drop-in dates. Oh, okay, okay. I did see Mighty, Mighty Win.

Mighty, great again. And we were the folksmen for that. And we went on the road in something we called unwigged and unplugged, where we played acoustic guitars mainly. And we did songs from Spinal Tap, from Waiting for Guffman, from a Mighty Wind, and very, various other sources and it was really fun. It was a lot of fun. We did that in 2009.

Yeah, those are all just brilliant. I mean, that's kind of an interesting because in direction like so now Christopher Guess is in this documentary Spinal Tap again is he more in a directorial kind of feel or is he just one of the cast or who is actually directing is it Rob Reiner? No.

he's a fake director who's the real director well in spinal dab it was rob directing the film chris's films you notice there's you we never see who's making the film whereas in spinal tap we meet marty de verbi see him as a character yeah yeah so chris is a fly on the wall you know and his style has been picked up by oh five out of ten sitcoms on the air and waiting to to get on the air it's a real easy way to shortcut it's a way to shortcut your story. Get your exposition out of the way by saying, I thought he was lying to me.

But then, you know, and stuff. So sometimes it works great. I really like St. Dennis Medical. With Wendy, Wendy Covington on it and Damon. No, no. Oh, sorry. David Allen Greer is on it and he's amazing. He's become this.

this other presence. I mean, he's such a wonderful actor. And, uh, and he's become this really kind of crusty old guy who's also got a kind of a heart of gold. But you really, you kind of, they lean into both of them so hard. It's, it's kind of beautiful. I like that show very much. But some of them, it looks like, and Parks and Rec obviously works. But when it really, when it looks like, and more and more you see this, when it looks like they're just taking shortcuts to tell the story you know then it's then it's what is the camera doing here yeah you know right they used to call them testimonials right or that would be kind of well what the word confessionals confessionals i think modern family right i mean i would get pitches of shows and it would always be like

what if you did it docu style whatever it's called yeah yeah okay and does it predate the office it well the original is yeah yeah rickie says it that he did base the style of it on its final tab. But he, but it's a scripted show. Yeah. He went about it differently because he wrote scripts. Yeah. But he's, I mean, he perfected it.

I resisted the American office, even though I liked a lot of the people on it. I said, it's not going to be like the, and it's not like the original. It's David, it's David Brandt is different. than Michael. And I revisited the English office lately. And it's even more embarrassing than you remember. It's even more cringy and sad, heartbreaking. And it's like the office was a brighter show.

And it's hilarious. You know, I didn't follow it straight through, but I dropped it. Every time I see an episode of The American Office, makes me laugh. It's great people on it. You're right, it's so brighter. Carell's character is, you know, like Seminole, just that character and how wounded he is and how clueless he is.

And it was so in Steve's wheelhouse. I mean, he just owned it. But it's very much the, it's very much the American version of bad guy. Yeah. You know, it's a different world. And the second season of the British office is the first season has been on. This guy's a little bit famous and he's trying to get his job back. So the second season is just crushing.

It's just false. And he's sort of a celebrity that nobody particularly likes. And it's just, he keeps trying to exploit it. And it's just, oh, God, die, die. It's probably too rough for American TV. It's probably, like, too sad for network TV. Yeah. Too much going on that is more like deep, dark comedy, but not as sellable.

But that's a good observation. And also, on BBC, it's okay if you make 12 shows. it's okay if you walk away after 12 multi-towers, even though it's a brilliant, brilliant show. It's like, no, we're done. And they say, okay. In America, you go, what are you talking about? We can get scared of this, you know?

And sometimes that's not always the best choice. It feels like a 12-episode show will do 90. There's a little Boris Karloff with there. Sometimes it's not the best choice. Grab a coffee and discover Vegas-level excitement with Ben-M-GM casino. Now introducing our hottest exclusive, Friends, the One with Multi-Drop. Your favorite classic television show is being reimagined into your new favorite casino game, featuring iconic images from the show.

Spin our new exclusive, because we are not on a break. Play Friends, the One with Multidrop, exclusively at Ben-MGM Casino. Want even more options? Pull up a seat and check out a wide variety of table games from blackjack to poker or head over to the arcade for nostalgic casino thrills. Download the BetMGM Ontario app today. You don't want to miss out. 19 plus to wager.

Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connects Ontario at 1866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor. Free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement. agreement with iGaming Ontario with amex platinum access to exclusive amex pre-sale tickets can score you a spot trackside so being a fan for life turns into the trip of a lifetime that's the

powerful backing of amex pre-sale tickets for future events subject to availability and varied by race terms and conditions apply learn more at mx.ca slash y annex dana before we let this young man go I do have to say waiting for government we didn't we're not talking about enough but let's just we all know that unbelievable and uh Parker was in a lot of your movies right she's in a lot of those so funny and uh

I'm glad Parker's got a covered her for that oh it's great and she's turning it she's such a wonderful actress I don't know whether you saw the oh it was about this god it was a documentary

and then they they did a multi-part scripted show about this woman fell down the stairs or she was killed all this stuff and she played this prosecutor i think and she was wonderful because she was like man she's trying really hard this process she's just is she not competent and then we're led in a little bit more in her life and she's a woman alone

with a bottle at night and it's like she was a whole heartbreak i remember that i can't remember the name of it i think it's called the stairway or the stairs may yeah stairs or something yeah yeah i know one thing about i was not in i was not in uh waiting for guffman but i worked on some of the music i wrote one of the songs with chris i was gonna read some more movies you weren't in if you got a second but you know all name drop larry larry david was on on this podcast and uh just talking about his method and his show curb and uh he said the main thing he always look for is that no one was trying to be funny and i think that the spinal tab obviously that and all those other movies, there was just this, no one was signaling that

they're being funny. I mean, it gave it that whatever you call it. It just made it pop and it made it way funnier. Oh, good, good. John Cleese had a line about what farce is. What's a farce? He said, well, a farce is what happens to you on the worst day of your life. It should be a terrible, terrible thing you're going through. Otherwise, it's not going to be funny. The situation shapes it. All you can do is be the real guy and do your best. Yeah, and you guys are just so flat straight.

So in this spinal tab, is there anything you want people who are listening to say about it? Or you enjoy doing it? Yeah, we really did. I would say that if you were just off of what we were talking about, Paul McCartney is really good in this movie. And he plays Paul McCartney, but he plays like a legit, a legit version of Paul with a kind of a hidden spiny backpope. And it's really pretty fucking amazing. Elton's the same way, but he's, you know, he's like a parade coming down your street.

It's a slightly different thing. He's great and so deadpan in the interview stuff that Rob does with him. um so you know sometimes the person who is not exactly an actor is exactly the actor you know can i just i i want it in my mind's eye like so paul's here today and he comes on and wherever you're filming this and do you run it without cameras or do you just say or you do it like larry garrie chanlain used to do i'll say something like this you'll say how how how did that work with paul well we we kind of we just knew he was going to do something in the show.

He was very enthusiastic about it. And we had a lot of Zoom conversations about it. But we really didn't nail down what his thing was going to be about. But he came down to New Orleans and we, you know, we said, well, what if it's this thing that David St. Huffins, my guy, is pitching and the rest of the band really kind of hate it. And he comes in, he comes in and he sides with them. So then it becomes this kind of bristly moment. okay yeah and so it works them but as as a songwriter and as a guy who's been at this particular

this particular fucking project since 1980 um i just spent the first part of the of the morning listening to paul mccartney sing a song that i wrote that's something that i never thought what happened to me. Oh, wow. And it was like, I was, it almost made me go. But my character had to be more like, oh, yeah, what else can you show me? But he's still enthusiastic. David, David is very enthusiastic about it. But then when things go south, they go south because this guy's got a big ego and so does Paul. Love it. This is healthier than mine. Mine's full of rot. This is full of good cheer. It's not even a bucket list thing because you would never even think that would happen, I'm sure. No, no. But it was pretty remarkable. Yeah. I heard Paul on a podcast talking

about filming. Oh, really? It's just, you know, we were down there, you know, and the guys were there, and I saw, say, hey, what's all this? You know, talking like that, you know, and they go, we got it. I go, is that it? And I'll see you later. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, I wanted to sneak that in. I like doing Paul now. Paul did, Paul did the best thing for me. I just did Glenn Gary, on broadway with odin kirk and bill and bill burr and it was like the it was the marx brothers version of glengarry glen ross it was very funny yeah it was a lot of fun and paul came to the show and so he comes downstairs to the dressing rooms and uh so he comes walking in and we just worked together you know eight months before or whatever and he comes up in front of everybody

He comes up to me, he gives me this big hug, and someone, almost like an offstage loop, says, oh, you know each other. And Paul says, oh, yeah, we're in movies together. I love it. Who did movies? I love it. That's a perfect Paul McCartney thing to say. And then he's talking. He was already going to heaven, but this guaranteeing.

What's a better song? And I love her. Let it be. She's Leaving Home. I'm just doing Paul Melody songs, you know. Martha, My Dear is his greatest melody. Wow. Martha My Dear, do, do, do, do, too, too, yeah, because it just keeps going.

It's a long melody loop. Yeah, yeah. It's like a really elaborate show tune in two and a half minutes. And it's just, musically, it's brilliant. But all those others, pretty damn good. All those are fine, too. Oh, we like them. Well, this is my new house.

the last time I talked to you guys I was I was in the magic uh crafts closet or my rugrats closet as I called it which is where I went yes record rug rats during the shutdown so I was in there with a lot of knitting I did have notes from the last time I said where was he so now I know yeah he went to a place with no Wi-Fi he's like where can I go no so is this your man this is this is where all your stuff is your guitars well i got my little keyboard here yeah i do recording here and uh and i hide out from the world and the air conditioning apparently i don't do something about that uh all right well i have david thanks michael so dana we just we just wrapped up with uh the great michael mckeon

and michael yeah we were just saying like that's great he had that great McCartney at the end we were sitting on that for a while I love that story how fun I know movie I'd freak out it's fun because he's a musician as well you know he's in his studio and he writes all these songs and stuff and so that to kind of hang out with McCartney I was I just you know I'm such a freak and there's billions of me I'm not unusual at all about the Beatles and so that he tagged Martha Martha my dear as the yeah I was wondering what you thought of that because i know you have your favorites i don't know i they they go around around you know i i to me i was just curious the idea of genius you know what is genius and to me

it's sort of like something that shouldn't be able to exist but exists mm-hmm i'm saying with those beatles songs you go this is my favorite for a while and then you go no now i'm really into this one then i'm really into this one now and you don't appreciate one then you go oh shit now i just heard it again i kind of go back to the some of the earlier help hard days night um no reply into you know just that when they were i don't know something about those they're very they make me very happy yeah and they're and they're just cool but anyway he that guy is a great storyteller that's great as a guest michael michael a lot of fun.

Of course, we talked about Conan's again. Of course. And we talked about it with Nick Crowell. I don't know. Conan's getting a lot of play. But he was great to talk about everything. I did feel bad that I said waiting for Goffman. I thought he was in every single one of those from Best and Show to everything.

So that caught me and I felt stupid. I think he got the gist. Well, that was kind of nice to unpack the influence of spinal. tap on all these other shows that have people talk to camera and the way they shoot yeah yeah yeah i didn't even put that together uh they i don't know if it's the first time mock documentary or maybe there was some british ones but i'm not sure but in america that was sort of this mock documentary the way they shot it was new something new well i hope everybody liked it and uh we'll see you next time see you next time on what's the name of the show again i don't know really i thought

you know huh work in progress Hey, guys, if you're loving this podcast, which you are, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app. Give us a review, five-star rating, and maybe you can share an episode that you've loved with a friend. If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe. We're on video now. Fly on the Wall is presented by Odyssey, an executive produced by Danny Carvey and David Spade, Heather Santoro, and Greg Holtzman, Maddie Sprung Kaiser, Ries Dennis of Odyssey. Our senior producer is Greg Holtzman, and the show is produced and edited by Phil Sweet Tech.

Booking by Cultivated Entertainment. Special thanks to Patrick Fogarty, Evan Cox, Mora Curran, Melissa Wester, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Sean Cherry, Kirk Courtney, and Lauren Vieira. Reach out with us any questions to be asked and answer on the show. you can email us at fly on the wall at odyssey.com. That's A-U-D-A-C-Y-I-I-com.