Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade - RE-RELEASE - Al Franken

Episode Date: November 29, 2025

Let's revisit memories of John Belushi, athletes hosting SNL, and risky jokes with Al Franken. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And the only thing she'll have to say is, hmm. So download the app today and get zero-dollar delivery fees on your your first three orders. Instacart. Groceries that over deliver. Service fees, exclusions, and terms apply. Al Franken is our guest on this. Al Franken, yep. Al Franken is coming up. I mean, we worked with him on S&L for seven years, and it's always fun. He wrote with you a lot, though, on political stuff. Yeah, yeah. He was always very political before he became a senator, and I was useful to have them around and me and him and Jim Downey

would hatch out those a, nah, God, yeah, you know. Hatch those out. Also, Franken and Davis, the comedy team, and they were in maybe trading places, was it? They were in a lot of things, and they were there from the beginning. You know, they, you know, with the 70s,

they knew all about, yeah, knew all about those acroyd and all those guys. So it's a really fun interview. He's an interesting guy, And we've known them a long, long time. Here you go. He was a headwriter when I was there along with Downy and Spiegel up.

Al Franken. Al Franken, everybody. Is that Putin? Putin, I wouldn't do it if I were you. I just think we can come and sound. Oh, I can do a podcast. Okay. Fly on the walls.

I got it. Fly on the wall. Putin called Al to say, how do I get S&L not to make fun of me? We were going to call our podcast. the Al Franken show. But I said, but why? He's only going to be on once and they said, okay, but me, Al Franken. Ladies and gentlemen, you're listening to Flath the Wall with our very special guest, S&L legend and Senator Al Franken. Thanks for inviting me. Of course. Al, there's so many things

in your career that we're looking at to talk about. Your new nickname is the Touchstone. I did Saturday night live, you know. I do know. That is a big chunk of it. Yeah. We want to go with a deep dive. Our other name for the podcast is The Hot Seat. So welcome. Ooh. Senator.

We really grill them. Yeah, I've heard you grill. We love our. We're the worst. We're the worst two hosts. I think we've been voted. That's okay. That's okay.

We're terrible, but we know it, which is kind of helpful. That's the charm. Yeah. That's the charm of you guys. That's what people love about you. yeah i didn't go to interview school right they say you have no qualifications we're like well you don't need them it's a podcast you don't need anything you have a chemistry between you yeah is that a little edwin it's an obvious friendship and affection for each other for and uh very funny

each of you and both together i don't know what i'm doing i i know i it's not steward smalley but it's some other kind of character that's sort of sweet and it's i'm uh on the upper west side of new york right now i think i'm just channeling left person i ran into sweetness there's something you know al got uh dana al was very smart went to harvard he also got a 800 on the math section of the SAT i don't think that's out of a thousand out of a thousand not get a 800 on his math you know uh my my mom said that on a rate i i once did a radio interview in minneapolis and my mom her apartment had burned down and so she had to come with me i was promoting a book and so we're doing a radio interview and i said okay mom you're not being interviewed we're like in the green room

then i have to go to the bathroom and then i come back and i go where's my mom and she's being interviewed and she's going alan got an 800 on assesses within 20 seconds you pulled that Within 20 seconds. Wow. But, okay, so seriously, so you're a math whiz or a brainiac of me? What is that about? No, I was just good at math. And up to a point, I mean, I was just, I peaked at, you know, algebra two.

I mean, I was not, I took calculus freshman year and I went, what, I have no idea what this is useful for. I don't like it. And then I began a comedian. I have to say, I was good at math out. And when I went, one of those didn't click with me. And I think people that are good at all math is very interesting because it was like algebra geometry. And then one of them I stopped at and said, I don't get it at all. And then they go, well, then you're dumb.

And I go, well, that doesn't. Anyway, Al was in the Minnesota comedy sketch scene back. Was that a big scene back? It says that's where you started. I don't know where you got that thing. There was a thing called Dudley Reg Sprade New Workshop, which was like a third city. It was like, in fact, they'll close. taught. Tom was in, Tom was in their troop. Tom was in. Okay. And I'll give me an example of, you know, Tom Davis and I, uh, been in high school. And we started performing together at this theater in, we went to like an open that what there weren't mics. It was a little theater. And, um, we, we were able to get on and the, the owner like this. And we were able to do shows there. And Tom, I went off to college.

Tom became a member of the troop and got the training, the improv training, and anyone who's interested in comedy, I would do that because I'll give you one example of where it really came in handy. Remember Julia Chow, bleeding the death? That's a sketch, Danny. Okay, so Tom and I wrote that and we're looking for an end. And in improv, you're taught to look for objects because you're out there on the stage with nothing and you're improvising. And one of the techniques is to find objects and at the end we were looking for a blow for the scene and tom said the phone you know there's there's the kitchen phone and so you know danny as julia child is going like um oh the phone and in emergency call 911 and and danny picks it up and starts to dial he goes it's a prop

phone and throws it down and dies essentially and that was like you know it was really you know Tom and I as a team each kind of complimented each other in certain ways that was one of the ways he did so people who are listening are to your to this broadcaster podcast are really interested in comedy and and young people ask me all the time should I do improv class and go yeah yeah yeah and we always say get it get in a kind of a biker bar and try to do five minutes that's that's the path you know, stand-up is a lot rougher. I didn't.

Whoops. You know, that was one of the best sketches ever. That was one of the top, top, most memorable sketches just. Well, that was one that peaked on air. You know how, you know how you had something? And you were just going like, oh, please peek on air. Please.

And we, that was one of the, you guys will attest to this. If something worked. in dress it was in air right and that worked in dress and it was walter math that was the host but we didn't have the blood quite right and we held it because we didn't have the blood quite right it's still kind of killed but and here's the thing is that that it was an insecticide sprayer underneath the counter and the special effects guy was running it and because tom and i had written it and we went to the special effects guy and said can tom run this the insect right because it's like part of the joke you got to get it right and and the guy you know he it's a union job because

it no but but they love love tom and so tom did it so tom and danny time those spurts And that's, you know, and then, you know, it was one of those things where you're going like, oh, please get it all on, on air. And it does. And you go, yay, yay. Wow. So you actually platformed it and then said, let's wait until we get the blood spurt thing. Yeah. And that was really rare, right?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I would work no matter what, but you, you know. That just adds to it so much to make those things work perfect. It's so much part of the joke and then it goes boom, boom, boom, boom. And he's saying something funny. The blood comes out perfectly. And it just builds, builds, builds.

Yeah. And you know what that feels like when it just works on all cylinders. You know what it feels like when it peaks at dress, too. That's a sick thing. And there was, there were years where we did not tape dress. Oh, really? So you didn't have a fail safe then. Well, yeah.

For the West Coast. And for the repeats. Yeah. Sometimes, and now they do, of course. And so, you know. Al, when we were there, let's say 91 to 96, was, I mean, I think we did tape just. I never really saw them. I never really, they didn't really do anything with them, but maybe they did tape them.

I don't remember. No, I think, I think certainly in the repeats, I don't think they change it for the West Coast unless something horrible. I think they do that now, though, they say, they'll see it in the West Coast, the better one. Like, wow. Yeah. What a luxury. God. I know. I know. Al, can I just for a second something about you and Tom? Because it's always interesting origin meetings and how you guys were partners in crime for so long.

Like, do you remember like it was eighth grade PE or did you connect with them right away or do you have any kind of McCartney-Lennon-esque thing? It was a 10th grade. 10th grade, sophomore. And I changed schools. I went to the public school system until 10th grade. grade and then my i don't need to go why i went to this all boys private school but it ruined my life but anyway it involved let's just say it's involved shoplifting yeah and so and then we we would have chapel in the morning it was like the school uh founded at the turn of the 20th century for a school for protestant boys and they started letting jews in in the 50s to

get the SAT scores up and so um let that just lay there for a second well yes that that's actually truer than you can possibly match but sure so uh i get there and tom makes an announcement there's so the reason i said that about the religion was that we had chapel in the morning and they had a big pipe organ you sang you know christian these hymns and christian songs okay yeah Yeah. And when I, the first week I got there, I just didn't sing them. And my math teacher asked me to stay after, after class. And he said to me, Mr. Franken, you want to go to a good college, right? And I said, yeah. He said, well, and you're going to need good math scores for that, right? I said, yeah, I'd sing the hymns. Jeez, blackmail. And then I sang the hymns. And I love singing the hymns. You know, almighty fortress is our God. Oh, yeah. Did you ever sing onward Christian soldiers?

That was kind of catchy on the word Christian soul. Yeah, there's some great hint. And I didn't mind. I didn't care. Yeah. But anyway, so after the hymns and some, you know, the faculty would, there'd be announcements. And Tom was really funny. And he would, organizations would send him up to do announcements.

So like the first week of school, I went up to him. I said, you're really funny. And then we started doing stuff together. We started doing announcements for the, you know, meeting of the chess club or something. And we did all kinds of just. We did Karnak. We did just, you know, all of that stuff.

They let you do it, huh? And they let you kind of screw around. They loved us doing that. I mean, it was fun. And we, it was where we really started in chapel. Could you? There's been people mentioning, you know, 75 to 80.

And specifically, Belushi and i i just want to get your time john sorry jim jim jim mentions it yeah yeah but uh john sorry sorry jim i apologize uh john balushi uh apparently was uh sort of an intimidated figure or he became one but anyway our friend jim downing talked to it and i'd like to hear your take on you know season three uh and what was going on with with john you know well I heard Downey's interview with you, and it was great. I'd recommend that to anyone. And he mentioned the time that I think he was referencing,

then this was my memory of it. One of the Charlie's Angels, Kate Jackson was. Jacqueline, Farrow, or Kate Jackson? I think Kate Jackson was the host. And I only referenced that was, I remember that was it. And he was very bad off. then in terms of drugs and so he was terrible in dress so uh jim and i had written a sketch and i said we got to just go and talk to him so and jim was intimidated at the time more and i just knew belushi

from the the get-go and i just knew that he could be intimidating but he wasn't going to do anything so i we not not to you not to the state wrestling champ but go ahead. We'll talk about that later. Well, I was hardly that. But so anyway, we go in and I go, John, you know, let's run lines on this sketch because frankly, you were pretty bad and it didn't know a line. And he just goes like, get out of here. He makes a fist and down, you know, and I'm going like, no, no, I could. I'll tell you what, John. We'll just read them to you so that they'll sound familiar when they're coming out of your mouth and that's what we did we just read him the sketch over and over

again and he was marginally better you know this is kind of his worst point um and but i never saw him actually do anything other than uh you know physically to intimidate anyone or other than his bearing and he wasn't you know he wasn't great to the women in terms of that showing respect and the women writers and stuff so yeah but god damn he was funny yeah brilliant comedian i what i'm just sort of curious like what were the things he was taking and how did it affect his performance so was he taking cocaine where he'd speed up or is he drinking so he'd slow down or do you remember it was mainly cocaine at that time You know, it's funny.

When I first ran for the Senate, one of the first interviews I had, I thought S&L was going to really help me. Oh, yeah. I thought, this is great. This is a feather in my cat. Everyone was S&L. Yeah, they did bring up a lot of your sketches, didn't they? Go ahead.

So my first interview is, or one of my first interviews, the reporter says, yeah, when you were at Saturday Night Live, did you ever do cocaine? And I say, hmm, what's that? Yes, yes. But, and then I say, but I only did a little so that I could stay awake late enough to make sure that Belushi didn't do too much. Good line. Good one. And which was a joke.

And most people recognize as a joke. But the media I've learned has a vested interest in not. getting jokes. So the guy kind of wrote it up as Al Franklin conceded that he used cocaine while at Saturday Night Live. Breaking news. Said that he only did a little so that he could stay awake late enough to make sure that John Belushi didn't do too much. Belushi later died of a drug overdose. Yeah. Connected dots. Yeah. And so anything I ever did. Oh my God. I think of there is one line in a great sketch comedy killers. I don't, were you guys around for this?

I think I was. It sounds like something. Okay, comedy killers with a Jeopardy like game, but the premise was, and Downey and I wrote this and I'm sure, and other people kicked in. You know, it was one of those things that people kicked in at the table.

So it was just the categories were like, cancer, a Holocaust. Yeah. Kennedys, you know, that kind of thing. And so there's one joke, and Rosie Schuster wrote this joke. So this might have been earlier than, well, or maybe she was going to learn Michael's ex-wife. Yeah. It was, yes.

Yes. And the, it was jeopardy. Like so, um, this would have been a bad Hanukkah gift for Anne Frank. And then, and what was a drum set? Yeah, that was. And so I later told that. joke like i'm telling it now and so that gets like al frankin told jokes about the holocaust yeah this he's coked out of his mind and he doesn't care about the holocaust

al frankin pretty good jokes i like yeah so in one of his cocaine frenzies yes the holocaust joker cokehead also said you know i don't know about you I don't know if I want this guy running the guy. He feels cocaine and the Holocaust are a joke. What else does he feel? It reminds me of those political ads we used to do. Yeah, those are the best. Go ahead, Al.

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I had a kind of a gap girls. It's a story, but it's really just about the Gap Girl set and Paul McCartney. So I love it. I think I remember this. Okay, well, Paul McCartney, okay, as, well, for your listeners, the first thing that was rehearsed on Thursdays, we shot promos maybe first, but the second thing,

maybe the first thing rehearsed was the music, because the music set was the music set and was there, so you didn't have to bring a new set. So when Paul McCartney came to play, everybody at 30 Rock knew he was the guest and knew when the music rehearsal was. So 8H was filled with people for the rehearsal. And Lauren goes up and asks Paul,

I'm there, right there, you know, and he's going up to Paul and he says, could you do Hey, Jude? How would, how would Warren say that? Could you possibly find your way to Hey Jude? It's just like a really, really, really big hit. Yeah. I think find your way to Hey Jude would be exactly right. So Paul goes like, well, we're not really playing at this tour. so we don't, I don't know if we really know it.

And I go, hey, Jude. And he goes, no, no, no. And because the lyrics are so like this, you know, confusing. But I think Paul was actually, I think they were doing that tour. So he goes to the band and he comes back. He says, yeah. So they play Hey Jude in the studio full of people there. And everybody is so blown away and moved.

And I'm like crying. because this was, you know, I was like 16 when Hey Jude came out. And it was that it just meant so much and that and I'm literally, where's my life gone? I remember being sitting in the car not, you know, if Hey Jude was on, I just like arrived at my place. I waited to the end of Hey Jude and I'm just so moved. Okay. They're doing a gap girl's. Okay. Now gap girls is going to enters the story. Okay. Great. Yeah. Yeah.

So we're now, we're on Saturday. And during meal break, they, they have the music rehearsal. So I go, of course, because it's going to play Hey Jude and I go on the floor. And I notice while they're playing Hey Jude that the gap, there's a guard on the gap girl's sketch guarding the clothes. Yeah. Because they're so the clothes on the gap girl's, the girls, gap girl sketch was so, I guess, valuable enough to have a guard there. So, but I see that the guard is so transfixed with Hey, Jude that, and I need some jeans. And you need some jeans.

Okay, got it. And I need some jeans. So I watched during dress, he's still, during air, I took two pair of 3630s. 3630. 3630. Yeah, that's what I was at the time. 3630s. I'm short.

Well, you have gigantic legs. Remember the night? Yeah, you and Farley would sometimes in a fun way wrestle. At least one night I remember you guys. It was like Godzilla versus King Kong. Yeah. And I didn't really know that I was a wrestler, but your build is very powerful.

And Farley was, you know, and it was like Golius colliding. Who actually won that wrestling match in the middle of the night on 17th floor? Well, I think it was just kind of a man affection thing. Yeah, you guys were laughing. a playful when you did it. Obviously, everyone was turned on. Yeah. All the writers also.

Especially the women. Yeah. You know, actually, Dana, back to that. The Gap set, they donated a corner, you know, like the set all from the Gap, and it was all real. So they sent their own security saying, we have to make sure this comes back in one piece. Oh, okay. And that's what happened.

So I remember because they told me they go, they got, don't worry, all the Gap stuff, all the cable crews, everything's going to be still there on Saturday. No one's going to be able to pinch. And then I did. Yeah, I think maybe you had told me that. I think it's a great story. I actually went to the prop master and said I took two jeans. And he said,

Full disclosure. Have you guys just threw out any kind of career appearance on a TV show or whatever? And then there's wardrobe left over. And there's something that you really like. And then you sort of ask casually, could I kind of keep this jacket? And it's really fun when they, say yes even though it might only be a $20 jacket something about free stuff on a set or a TV show well um I never acted in a movie and like you guys have Stuart Smalley well I did I did

but why would I keep Stuart Smalley's clothes yeah okay trading places I got his sweater was what I was gonna say I was Porter I was Stone Porter number one and Tom was Stone Porter number two did you write trading places no no no we were just giving this a little part and was stone border number one and stone porter number two and we smoke a joint in it and they took that away because Eddie smokes a joint

and remember in the bathroom though we were playing stone but we were no one had seen us in the movie smoke a joint so we were kind of dim-witted or did you actually do like a stoner dude voice

did you do like a character yeah we're kind of like yeah like that we thought that was motivated by them having seen us smoke pot, but it was fine. It was fine. So, Al, you kind of have a reputation, like you do risky stuff. And I just want to start with this one.

Okay, and I don't know if this is true, but it's 1980, Lauren's going to leave, and you were potentially one of the era parents to then take over SNL and be the executive producer? Is that possibly true? But you wrote a sketch about Fred Silverman, the then head of NBC. or he was in it. Yeah, that was stupid. Is that true? In hindsight.

That was not biting the hand that feeds. Did that, I mean, what was that sketch? Yeah, I mean, look, my life is unfolded the way it's unfolded. But that was stupid. Yeah, I would, didn't think that necessarily that that was going to happen anyway. And I was kind of up for leaving myself also. So I just did limo for the lameo. And it was just about how, you know, like I didn't get a limo.

I see even Garrett gets a limo and or something like that. And but I don't get one and but Fred Silverman gets a limo. And then I, we were, NBC was tanking at the time. And I was a couple of like one of the executives attached to the show begged me to do it. And we had the ethic that if it's funny. We do it, right? Yeah, right. That was kind of it.

And so... Did it come back to hurt you in any way, then? You were going to leave the show anyway. Only in the sense that Fred Silverman has hated me ever since, and that he was ahead of the network. But no. But Al, what about when you... I just watched this whole update bit you did about you came back,

and I guess it was Gene Domanian had come and gone within six months. They did a whole update piece. Was Chevy the host? is that why he was there oh he must have been i think it was like an interim thing where who came back with ebersol i think then yeah you were sort of making fun of him and i was kind of making yeah i was that was balzy bit yeah i was saying kill the show or something like that and but then a writer's strike happened right after that and um but you always did edgy stuff didn't you uh this is jumping ahead for a second but just to your uh not censoring yourself

Didn't you suggest that George Steinbrenner, the billionaire owner of the New York Yankees, who was the host, that somehow he would be in all fours with a dog collar? No, no, I had him play. I wrote a sketch where he's playing Petey, who is kind of, like, wears a beanie and shorts. Yeah. And it's just, and everyone just say, like, Petey, you're so stupid, Petey. and he would just it was all clearly just a pretext to say or you know just to say stuff to george's time like that and he wouldn't do PD he wouldn't is that the one where odenkirk and

conan were supposed to go try to keep talking into doing a sketch or something no this was uh i don't think so i did PD and i just thought it'd be very funny he had like a beanie with like a twirling on the top. Yeah, and he was just wealthy, powerful. I think we made him get on all fours in the sketch. That's what I remember going, well. And kicked him in the ass. That's right.

I think that was it. Yeah, you got him on all fours, kicked him in the ass. And were you shocked when he turned down the sketch? Well, yeah, I mean, he was kind of weird. I don't know if he was the kind of guy. He did a decent job. We wrote a sketch for him and Neelan and Jan and Victoria where it was just, George is Neelan's boss and the two couples are going out to dinner and Neeland offers to pick up the check and George says, no, come on, I'm your boss.

No, no, no, you always picked it up. I'm going to pick it up and no, I'm your boss. I'm taking the check. And I'm taking the check. And then he takes it and goes, well, I was pretty easy. And then the only goes, okay, I'm taking it. I'm taking it. And then it just escalates.

Yeah, yeah. He was good on the show. And Jan kind of goes, no, you know, who's one of those? And Steinbrenner was very good in it. I just remember him going around 8-H

asking people where they went to college and like, you know, Penn State, oh, good school, you know, Cambridge. Oh, nice school. And then he came to me and goes, where'd you go to college?

I said, San Francisco State, his face went blank and he just turned and walked away from me. Really? Well, San Francisco State. I guess it wasn't a second. college. God, that makes me think George Steinbrenner is a dick.

Or a guy who just loves higher education. You know, I mean, I just, it was just a funny school that I went to. The musical state is a fine school. There are stories that you always feel like everyone's heard. But I don't really know the George Harrison

legendary visit. I'll give you a choice. Either that or talk about the character, the brain tumor comedian. Okay. Um, I'll do Harrison real quick. Uh, both. So this was an epic thing. I missed it.

But he comes to S and what year like 90, whatever. I, yeah, probably not 90. I would have been there. 95. 89, 88, something like that. Conan is there. And I wasn't there. Okay.

And basically George Harrison is, uh, shows up at, uh, on the 17th floor. He and Lauren are going out to dinner. Okay. Oh, my, George Harrison is here. George Harrison is here. They're going out to dinner. They come back a few hours later, and he is just drunk. And so now it's like 10, 30, 11.

I love it. And as you know, this is Tuesday night. This is Tuesday night. And that's when the show gets written. And this year, I was one of the producers are. And he starts to play the piano. Fun. a gift in the read through room and everyone just is like gathered round and george harrison's playing

the piano a beatles playing the piano and it's going on and on and on and i'm going like the show is not going to get written and so i just go to phil hartman i say phil uh watch this and you remember my desk my office is right next right right right across yeah So I go in my office and I just slam my door as hard as I can. I didn't see him because I'm inside, but he evidently George like jumped like three feet off the piano bench, came down and then left. And everybody was just furious at me.

And I just said, we got to write, we got to write this show. And of course, Rue McClanahan was the host. No. And she sat down at the piano and wouldn't stop. That piano is a peeking.

story and the brain tumor comedian was it's Tom is so funny in this piece it's you know we would do the Franken and Davis show which was a show than the show and this one is I have a brain tumor and I have this tar this bandage with a big lump this colored lump on it and and Al's always wanted to do a single and he's this is you know he's got a brain tumor so you know you're really enjoy this folks this is tom and then i start uh you know what you know you hear about the rabbi didn't give uh you know didn't charge for giving circumcisions he only took tips woof and then the next the next joke i tell i start the space out and every joke i always the punch is always he only took tips and then tom behind me would go would like encourage the audience

And it was really funny. And Tom was really funny. And of course, we got a few letters. Have you ever watched your, you know, wife die of a brain too much? Have you ever thought of a sketch out, unless it where you thought of it and said, ah, no, no, too much.

Too far. Yes, of course. But I can't remember any. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I can't remember any. It was few and far between. But let's talk about some stuff.

We did together. Yeah. And Downey, I think I've told you this. Downey had this credo for the, for the political material we wrote, which was, Downey, it was a moderate Republican, a very thoughtful, you know, conservative in the best sense, Republican. And I'm obviously a very progressive Democrat. And we felt that it wasn't the job of the show that.

to we just we felt the job was to do uh satirical political satire that was well observed but not you know uh biased in one way or another so and and downy had this motto which was we're going to reward people for knowing stuff but not punish them for not knowing stuff so the point was is that you could watch it and not be a political junkie at all not follow politics very closely and understand it. But if you were someone who did, there was another layer. And that's, that's pretty sophisticated stuff. But, uh, but Downey and I are pretty, uh, I'm very proud of the stuff I did with Jim. And we did so much with you. And Jim didn't say this when we're talking about you doing, uh, the Bush Cole openings, which we use as a crutch. I basically, we can

always do Dana in one on home base and uh and downy is right sometimes we wrote them on and they were long but here's the thing that i tell people a lot which is in dress and i we those were well written by and large and downy kind of said well sometimes we threw you out there with nothing i don't you know i don't remember a lot of that you know yeah but what would happen is we would send you out there was something actually well to you know well thought through you would get so many laughs at will because you do the you just do your the hand over there doing that doing that spread got that whole area will get laughs so we had to tell you between dress and air a number of times which i don't think anybody has ever told a performer don't get so many laughs

because we because you're ruining you're not following the through line of the audiences and they're losing the through line and you knew exactly what we were talking about you knew exactly how to dial it down and you did every fucking time and which was you knew exactly what you're doing you had such control and of course you helped write those and added to them and And I also want to tell another story about you, which is, and I think I've discussed this with you, but in, in, I guess it was, when did Clinton run? 92. So Sangas was running and Jerry Brown was running. Yes. Yeah.

And we had a two week break, which was rare. And a two week break. And you said to me, you know, as we were about to go on break, so can you work on song? for me, you know, just on the idea of songus and what to do with them. And so I started playing around with his voice and I nailed it. I got it really great. And then I went to, I gave a speech at the Kennedy School, you know, on political satire. And I killed with fungus. So I come back and I'm barely embarrassed. And I say to Dana, could I do songus? And you just went, yep, I'll do Jerry Brown. Love Jerry Brown. And the thing about you.

is that you knew Jerry Brown. Yeah. Part of it is that you went to, you know, a lousy in a campaign. San Francisco State and California. Oh, yeah. No, but Jerry Brown was a great character, but your song was was hysterical.

Whatever your take was, I remember it killing. Right, it was, you know, snagglepuss with a, Kermit. With a boss, with a Massachusetts accent. Yeah. Snagglebill.

And he really had a voice that odd. I mean, it wasn't that big a leap. Yeah. Very extreme. Yeah. I have a question out. When you and Dana were formulating Bush, it was right before I got there, but I just watched a Bush Dukakis early on debate, which I don't even know if it was a cold opening.

It was 14 minutes, which is pretty long. It might have been, but it was great. It was during the campaign. That was Diane Sawyer. And you discussed with Downey, the line, which was, I can't believe I'm losing this guy. Yes. And yes, I wrote that line, but. the line only worked because of this long set of right of bush rambling yeah yeah well and it was

it was it was it was it was diane soyer jane hook's playing a great sultry yeah so funny saying hilarious with and basically asking him a question and you kind of go well uh stay the course thousand points of light mm-hmm stay the course and then she just went to for the first time in this she just went you still have a another minute 45 as your vice president and he just saw well stay the course yeah and then bring it down she does that back and forth with you like three or four times and finally she goes governor and then i can't believe i'm losing this guy so that was i wrote that line but only because of that setup set up set up that line right i think i oh yeah I think I started the line off the set.

And I, John and the whole script, and Lovitz nailed that one, by the way. Oh, my, he was great in that sketch. Lovitz was great as Dukakis, and I don't know if I've told you this out, but he, on election night, when Bush won, Lovitz called me and essentially conceded. Well, you're going to be doing the president for four years. And he, the fake Dukakis conceded to the fake Bush before the real Dukakis conceded to the real book. But then I knew I was going to be in the hot seat and I didn't really have the impression at that point. You didn't quite have it and we did sit down

and you started developing that. Well, do you remember the exact moment because it was just you and me in a room trying to find it? And I just said that doing that thing out there with the finger up, the lazy finger. Like swishing that thing in that whole area. And we both looked at each other and laughed

and that was the end. It's very interesting how, one little hook and then it went to not gaddad. Well, I remember, you're one of the first guests on my podcast and you said to me, because I laughed and you said laughter is the oxygen of comedy. Yeah, yeah. Oh, definitely. If you have someone

laughing and you're riffing, then it is. The machine keeps going. So you laughed and I knew. I like, okay, this is great. And then we had Jim Downey coming in. It was so like, I felt really blessed to have you and Jim Downey working on it, but you seem to be the primary driver, instigator of the subject matter, which we talked about, but it was interesting that when Bush was riding so high, he was 90% approval after his first two years in in the Gulf War. All the sketches, yeah. Yeah, all the sketches were about how he was impenetrable. And when I did it at D.C. for the

Democratic fundraiser, everything was about, I'm going to get elected. And it was just this super happy comedian he was literally at 89 percent yeah insane well try to beat me and that's because he let us out of the you know saddam invaded Kuwait and he put this coalition together put the coalition coalition everyone could do it now well it's the guy you're just doing the guy who figured it out and um and not unlike what Biden is doing now in a way we got inflation people can't get the baby formula i love yelling biden i love i love his yell it's so funny yeah yeah we got to find a way to do i know one of my favorite hooks that we we started doing this kind of a couple years ago or something we started

trying to work on biden and you yeah you were doing it but one of the hooks i like it uh is uh and that's That's no hyperbole. He does that a lot. Yeah. My father lost his job. No joke. That was the first one. No joke.

No joke. No joke. Not kidding around here. Come on. Yeah. Number one. Yeah. What the guy says?

He's killed six million Jews. No joke. No joke. I thought that was a joke. Okay. That was the first hook into him. Now, in fact, is a lot. And guess what?

You know, there's a lot. You know, it went up. I know how to create jobs. I know how to create them. I don't know how to be a job creator. He goes to the whisper, and then he goes back to the yeller. But there's a lot there for sure. Ella McKay, coming to theaters December 12th.

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Starring Emma Mackey. Jamie Lee Curtis, Camel Nanjani, Iowa Debrie, with Albert Brooks and Woody Harrelson. You should do that every afternoon. Ella McKay. And then we had Perrault was dropped into our lap to just follow that sequence. Well, remember that I just saw Perot

and I got a tape and we went in Lauren's office and showed you Perot. Yeah. And you said, oh, there's a three-dimensional. Fully-fledged. There he is. Yeah, it was like Sarah Palin and Ross Perrault are sort of bookends of three-dimensional comedically already funny characters that just walked on the stage.

Perrault was like next level funny as a character. It was. And then we did a cold opening. You wrote the very first one and it was a very funny take. Do you remember? Yeah. Yeah. It was basically him saying, you know,

have to pay me anything yeah yeah but if we gp gross domestic product goes up 4% i get a billion dollars yeah it was like he gets a taste yeah and then he called the next you know he called on monday at 9 a.m. of course and we got in at 2 p.m. and a receptionist the got us on with him and you and I were on, and he was not interested in the writer at all. He was interested in you. Yeah, yeah. Of course, of course. But he would, at least he seemed to be a good sport.

He was a good sport about it. I mean, he said, you know, here's an idea. I think most, yeah, go ahead. This is a great idea. You go out and campaign as me and I campaigned as me. So it'd be two of me, campaign it all over the place. I mean, he just thought that was the funny. That's precisely what he said.

Yes, yes, that's like word. You don't have to write. anything with it. I know and no and and well you played both Perot and Bush and Lucky Spade got to be full circle yeah got to be in the wide shot

as as fucking wide shot productions so David had to get the hair the nose the ears the suit everything to look like pro I'm so stupid I didn't even know what was going on I thought am I doing parole? I go, I guess Dana can't and do the magic of TV

and bad luck he could. And I do remember seeing parole on something and obviously I wasn't a political guy and I was like, Al, what you were saying is if you're just a casual viewer, you get, you know, I understood the cold opening stuff. I didn't get the second layer of jokes. But I was

just, I wasn't political, so I didn't even really wasn't about Republican Democrat. I was just going, is this funny or not, whatever. And they were always great. And then when Perrault was on something on the weekend, like a meet the press, I accidentally saw, I thought, oh, this, look at this little clown. This is hilarious. And he was, he was like someone gets to go do a stand-ups act, you know, because he's already funny. And I go, and he was a little pipsqueak, and I go, oh, maybe I could. And that's how out of it I was.

By the time I called Smigl, and I just said, hey, is there any way he's like, we got it covered? I'm like, I got it down. I'll probably even more fun than George, which, senior at least this phrase you're not listening can i finish one time just that to me that's one time you're not listening can i finish one time or are you getting a risk can't finish can't finish one time you're like a music can't i finish one time it's like a song it's like james brown or something can i finish one time hit me yeah well that's the thing is that you you know your impressions are musical in many ways it's all chopped

it goes all back to chopping chop and broccoli I'm at the first show once I had them she chop she chop I know I have no excuse for it except that I think I'm trying

to make myself laugh and then it just makes me laugh someone going cafe one time are you going to run me it's so goofy cartoonie one time

but he did say something like that well it's all making yourself laugh that's all it is it is what is your favorite you know what's your favorite moment from saturday night live wow 15 seasons you did and i say that my favorite thing at saturday night was three in the morning rolling on the floor laughing with the writers with the cast members just and part of you know woody allen once said that writing uh comedy is either easy or it's impossible when it's easy and it's your friggin job is what you're supposed to do yeah so this stuff is making

you laugh and you know and it could be downing on a riff it could be you'd coming up with you know you and nieland doing hans and fronds it can be bye bye it can be and you know and you just are going like at that moment of creation that someone's doing something and you just it's so funny but it's the added thing of we just did her job really well yeah so sometimes that rewrite table it could be four in the afternoon or four in the morning and if someone cracks the code on something and everyone starts laughing and then everyone riffs on it that's the funnest time because everyone's good at the table so everyone's throwing in something good from right and left and you go wow this is really jumped this sketch way ahead of where it was david i saw david tell the other

the day or a couple months ago actually at the comedy seller and i just said he was at the table for a year or something and uh and he wrote do you remember uh the bobbitts you know she cut off his penis yeah and that thing and i was doing a steward with i guess myers was the guy and uh rosy adonnell was lorraine to bobbit and i i had a line that i didn't and have the punch too i go so how did it feel or has it feel now and and a tell's line was it itches and why it just when someone does something like that you know it just it's such a gift to have that table and then sometimes the table is so deadly i get three in the morning well i just remember like a lot of food like guys around the table and some women of course on 17th floor and I'm thinking it is

kind of like nothing's going on like it seems like the deadest space in the world and there's Chinese food or pizza everyone's leaning back on their chair tapping the pencil window is cracked one inch because everyone's dying in there and you can't believe there's going to be a show But you told me once out, you told me that I peaked at read-through, you know, and that really helped me going forward. Sometimes you try to get it on so hard in your first year that you literally never get back to it. You've piqued it read-through, and you definitely don't want to peek at dress unless you're at war to get it on air. You want to leave a little something.

So there's a lot of inside baseball about that. If you have an insider with Al, if Al's writing with you and you're a read-through, I think it's a little easier to pull back because he's going to be in the room saying he's going to bring it up. So you at least have a part. There were years that I was in the room. And I've seen here Downey kind of talk about the most funny hat at the show was when he just was writing and not producing. And there was a little, it was nice to be able to go in there and express your opinion and on what gets what gets picked for read through and stuff like that. Also, yeah, there's something nice about just being a writer, too.

And also, I was performing every once in a while. Well, as a cast member, you want to hook up with someone who has Lauren's ear and Lauren Truss, you know, in the room after the read-through. That's always a nice thing to do for people who are just beginning cast members, a little tidbit. Al, we can't go without talking about Stuart Smalley. I remember the Michael Jordan one was probably such a huge home run. that one's that one's that one that was the peak on air greatest sketches yeah yeah that was that you know i mean uh kill killer well and and he was uh i think he was cracking up or something

too much or something in dress and i just said just dial it you know and he understood it i mean so here's a guy you know he's a very i oh you know when remember when uh Lauren hosted or produced the SPEs. I don't know if you remember. Maybe you weren't around for that. So he, uh, sponsored, uh, produced, produced the SPs. And so I was a presenter and I did this joke and it died. And I thought it was a great joke.

And this was the year they, they did the second, uh, three Pete. Right. Uh, the bulls did. So I went up there and I just said, and remember this is a lot of athletes and a lot of people. sports but i just go like you know a lot of people are saying that michael jordan is the greatest basketball player who ever lived well i can say is michael prove it and it just lay there it's not the right crowd they just going he has proven it uh that was her attitude yeah they didn't get the fuck is this guy

I remember that laying an egg so bad. And I went, oh, okay, this is not a comedy crowd. Jordan at that show running around was such a big deal. That was so much fun. Was he kind of the biggest guest in that way, Jordan? That when we were there, I think. I mean. In a way, I mean, he's, I remember that was the first time we were fielding NBA players in the Olympics.

And I just said to him. so how do you think you're going to do and it was like him and magic i mean and burr you know it was like yeah and he said oh and he was so confident and of course they just kill everybody yeah and uh without even trying really it was but i i just remember the the exuding confidence and the uh competitive he had a moment with me he had a moment with me he he goes, do you golf? I go, well, a little bit here and there. I go, but I'm lucky to break a hundred, you know.

And he paused, he looked at me, and he's towering over me. He goes, well, you're not very good, are you? That's what he's going to say, let's play. That's unnecessary, Michael. Well, he's famously competitive. Yeah, you don't seem very athletic. He bets a lot in golf, and he bets, like, each hole, and he bets, because I golf, and I, I'm not very good either, but.

It's fun, the stories you hear from caddies and these great golf courses where he comes in and sweeps people and he loves it, loves it. He just always looking for some action, which is great. It's a cool thing about him. People love Michael Jordan. Well, I think athletes, athletes just kind of blow our minds.

Old movie stars when Robert Mitchum came on, Charlton, or Wayne Gretzky showed me how to hold a hockey stick. Wayne Gretzky got on his knees and laced up my skates and showed me how to do that. so there's moments yeah you're like damn and the musicians as well yeah i i wasn't there for paid manning but i thought did you see that show i wasn't but i thought he was hysterical on the show i saw it he was fabulous yeah there were a number of of uh these guys who were just really

really good and some of them some of them were loxes like yeah uh but they were almost funny being loxas do you remember a piece we were at tom and i wrote this um trying to figure out who who was there which one of you were there hurry it was joe montana and he was walter peyton uh well yeah but on this one joe montana who was kind of a locks um we just thinking out loud thinking out loud that yeah yeah it was it was uh it starts off with uh phil and jan and he's trying to get her to stay the night and and it's that cliche of he says something and then you hear what he's thinking yeah and then she says something and we played it tom and i wrote it so that you thought that was the sketch that that we thought that was the comedy and if you're watching it you're going like this

is kind of lame this is a device that people use a lot and then his roommate comes and Phil's going oh no and he says this guy you know my roommate is the most honest guy there is and then at one point He goes, you know, he says, it's nice to meet you. And then his thought is, it's nice to meet her. And then the last line was, I'm going to go upstairs and masturbate. And then I'm going to go upstairs and masturbate was his thought. Right. And my God, it was so funny. And it was partly funny because he was a locks.

Well, and he was competitive with himself. I was told that he wouldn't come out of his dressing room. had to at the end of the show he thought he didn't do well that kind of thing oh you're a football player what do you thought but i got to play catch with him he did fine he did fine he was funny no way not to do well as an athlete a bill russell did well uh did really well i just i did a i did a ross with peyton and uh i didn't see his s and i thought i'd be fun to have Peyton in there. And he crushed it. He's crushing, you know, they wrote him jokes, but he delivered him. He was great. He got huge laughs, huge applause. He's always, he's got a very

light, funny thing about him. And that's why I think he's in all these commercials and does that Manning cast. It all works. You know what I've discovered in comedy. Some people are funny and some people aren't. Is that really? In all your days, that's what you've come up. Yeah. Do you guys think like you were there's 900 of us Dana that was you know one of Lauren's great things there's only about funny people there's only 900 of us on the planet and it was kind of like the perfect number right

yes since Al you were there in 75 I just want to ask you this question did was anyone cognizant of the idea of taking a football player or a dramatic actor or whatever and forcing them to become a live sketch player the reality show aspect of Saranite Live that sustains it. Because if you see a football player or a singer trying to do this and they're kind of bad, it's still compelling, you know?

Yeah. Because they're... Absolutely. You know, the first one we had was Fran Tarkinson. There you go. Oh, wow. And that was Franny's idea. That was my wife's idea.

Because of the namesake a little bit, Fran Tarkitin and Franny. And how was it? He was very good. um and it was likeings quarterback for the audience yeah yes this is this going back of ways and uh you know he wasn't the greatest who had ever done it but um he was he was very good and i remember balushi for that we did a cold opening where balushi is like a coach we did a football some a lot of football themed thing and balushi made me go back to his apartment and read to me dick butkus is autobiography and i had to stay there like all you know powers while he read this

thing and uh he worshipped dick butkus who is a linebacker for everyone for uh the bears i did a tv show with dick buckus and you did and baba smith called uh it was with james farentino and it was this helicopter is a cop show yeah air wool was no no it was an air wolf i can't Blue Thunder, the cop show. The Thunder, yeah. I played the Daniel Stern part. What did you play on it? Well, I played a, I played the sidekick in the back of the chopper with a helmet on.

Clinton Wonderlove, just another frustrated observer. Like, I wanted to be out. Clinton Wonderlove, that was your dumb name. James Farentino would have a sorrowful of vodka, and he would smash the pages of the script on the thing and yell at the crew. It was like Scarface. What year was this? What year was it? I just took stuff.

And 84, I had no confidence that I could be on Saturday Night Live, really. So when people said, I luckily got cast in things, I just did them, and they were a complete waste of time. And I got fired, but I got into the outfit, went into the fake chopper. They're going around blowing steam at us. And then they said, Dana, come down the ladder in front of the whole crew. They fired me. And I had to do the perp walk and go just in front of everyone.

I go to the wardrobe guy, really nice guy. And I go, I'm a comedian. I'm funny. This is like 84. He put his hand on my shoulder and said, shh, it's okay. It's okay, son. And then he saw me like eight years later in 93.

He goes, you were right. What the fuck? What were you doing in a helicopter? I had a very strange route to S&L. I mean, you saw me once right out. You were in 84? I probably bombed. I did, and I blew it.

I blew it. I saw you doing stand-up in San Francisco. I probably wasn't. So like, that guy is brilliant. But you know what? You weren't ready. Well, you know. You're ready a year later.

I would just say confidence until you're kind of famous is a wide range of how you'll be on a given night. And if you lose a little bit of confidence, at least for me, I don't know about Dave Chappelle. You know what? I don't think I was the. But yeah, go ahead. I don't think I was the best judge to do this. You know, I, that year, that was the year we came back from being gone. right that Lauren came back to being gone yes 85 you know we picked we picked

love it's that year we got a hello a few good people but we I think there are some people that we missed that were really that ended up being real huge mistake it's always easier after the fact to say oh why didn't you pick that person but you you know when you see them sometimes it's too raw too rough or they haven't developed and you just it's it's an easier miss it's better to wait you know They're people sometimes they'll put them on when they're not ready. They're 21 or 22 and not ready. But for me, to get on with Phil and Jan, freakily do the church chat sketch.

Rosie Schuster was the one who was helping me form. I had the character, but the platform. Then all these religious scandals happened. And Al came on and you did Swagger, right? So throughout that first year, I think I did Pat Robertson, and then Phil did Swaggart. And then they did Tammy Fager. So I have this church like a shady lady character. I get fat.

Perfect. Yeah. And then these scandals start happening. And so, but that, that was, that was fun. You're doing Pat Robertson, like, laughing or crying. I remember, but it was a very funny take on Pat Roberts. My Pat Robertson was just very happy. Yeah.

That was, that was the key to him. He was just, oh, he was just a very joyful. There's a woman in Ohio who's just had her diverticulitis cure. I have a particular life Funny words You know But he He was just happy

He was a happy Christian And you started laughing That was my take on him And then Phil was crying And then we closed in on a close-up Or something like that And you're just like too idiot It's not talking

Just I heard you Maybe it was on It was with Jim about how They censored Churchway and you just became dirtier, and it was fine.

Couldn't say penis, but I could say throbbing, bulbous organ, willing as many mallet, yeah, naughty parts, sweating and grinding. Yeah, so that it was, it became, yeah, it was pornographic to me, I don't know, but that was a moment in time. Well, all they cared about was, is someone going to complain. Yeah. And they're not going to, they complain about penis because it's penis. Right. But they're not going to complain about throbbing.

Throbbing, naughty parts. Andrew Brewer, who is our kind of cool censor guy, he wrote us after, he wrote into the podcast because we've talked about him. But we always say positive things. He's always in like a tough position. And he'd always go, guys, come on, you can't do this one. You're not saying pussy like that. And I'm like, no.

What do you mean? We always play dumb. What are you talking about? Oh, that's right. You had that very indecisement. Oh, that's right. You remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, what was that? Yeah, I still have it between my legs. No, it was on weekend update, and I sort of mumbled the word pussy, and, and Dennis was like, Spudley, I wouldn't mess this one up. You're going to be fucking out of here. You're already teetering on a threat. I'm like, what? Thanks.

And then, and then, and so I said the in and outlist, you know, I think the outlist was going out of the show, getting out of funny. Oh, yeah, the end was. I was saying, you're not, oh, it is not enunciating enough to get caught by the sensors, and then the owl was going and getting his own pussy. And then, and I walk in the hallway, and Andrew's shaking his head, walking me, going, Spade, come here. And I go, what?

And I know, I have no idea what you're going to ask me. And then he goes, come on, dude. And I go, but it did pretty good address. So he goes, come on, you can't. We got advertisers saying we pull out if he does this. And so I do it. And then Dennis is right next to me going, I don't know, spud. And so I do it, and it gets too big of a laugh.

And Dennis is like, it's curtains for you, guy. Did you want to, too big a laugh was trouble? Yeah, because it means you said it to everyone understood it. Yeah. Well, I don't know. But I got along really well with most of the censors. Yeah. You know, clotworthy, because I know you mentioned him with Jim.

I really like Bill Clotworthy. He was a nice guy. Yeah. He was a lovely guy. a tough job he stood by a couple things i did that um were i did do you remember um first you uh for the this mbc reporter wrote a book about her having a mastectomy and it's called first you cry and then i did a sketch when we had uh it was first he cries and it was it was killed uh unfortunately in In retrospect, it has a mastectomy and Bill Murray is her husband and he just goes, you know,

it starts feeling really sorry for himself because his wife was horrible. The whole point was it was satirical, which is no, a guy doesn't do that. Yeah, that is the joke. Yeah. Yeah, that was the joke. And so and B. Arthur was her like oncologists and she, she's basically saying this happens all the time and the fact that he's got a girlfriend now named Bambi as not you know is to be expected and and cloutworthy's wife had had a mastectomy and he just said to me I love this sketch wow because he got the satiric yeah point of it and that was that was when you just went oh and I was really good friends with all the sensors because I talked to them all the time yeah because they my stuff was you know um i had to deal with them all

they call down edgy all right dana what else you got for al this poor guy we're coming to the ringer i don't know i wanted i'm having fun so i know it is fun steward small we got to that there's too much i will have one last thing you didn't write reg and mastermind did you that was a great that was smigles uh that was smigles i kicked in yeah but um You know, that had a line that Chippendales had, which was, this is the part of the job I hate. And that was Mike Myers line when they had to choose between Swayze and Swayze and Chris. And, you know, so hard, you know, they're consulting. And Myers goes, this is the part of the job I hate.

So that was one of my favorite lines. I don't think I wrote that in I doubt he wrote Chippendales I had one I got my name was on it but it was because I sat with while he wrote it and I had

I I had one thing in it which was the name Barney Barney yeah Barney and Adrian right Barney and Adrian Adrian Barney Barney yeah that was Nealon who did that great yeah

well Neelan Neelan the greatest attitude player that was what was great it was like you just knew kneeling could play attitude i had down and i wrote a piece which was and then you think about how of the time it was it was a toothpaste ad uh which had had garret and victoria and that garret uh tim meadows i guess and Victoria Jackson and they're pitching it for the country music awards and and Kevin is the guy who is receiving the pitch and has to say no we don't want to put and it ends with this big kiss right and this is I can't remember what year it was but this was not something you

would put on the country music awards a white woman kissing a black guy on the lips and it was nielan trying to say no without saying that right saying all the reasons it wouldn't work but well just uh you know just yeah that sounds very yeah i can't remember the lines but you give him attitude and it was just he was a master yeah maybe he is he is yeah could think of something else do here at this beat i uh you know then i ran for the senate you ran for the son a little birdie told me that you ran for the senate yeah and then uh yeah it uh well look you guys this this idea of doing that you've had you i love that you're having writers on yeah i kind of go by like people in high school

college they're just interested in this or interested in comedy it's kind of interesting to hear it just straight from people their process or how it happened and and why and the whimsy of it all too just like where does where does your inspiration come from al you once told me dana that no one should become a comedian unless they have to be a comedian pretty much i i think show business in general as an emotionally violent sport. You said that. I wrote that down. I thought that was interesting.

Well, your feelings get hurt a lot, even if you're doing really well. And, you know, my touchstone, as corny as it sounds, is like, I'm still making money doing this. And that's pretty cool. I never lost it. Yeah, well, because of one of 900 people who can. I just got an update.

There's 900 and 11. Some Bangladeshis were funny, and we had someone from Madagascar who made some people fall out. This people fall. Well, guys, thanks. Al, you were great, really, really, really interesting and fun. Hey, guys, if you're loving this podcast, which you are, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app. Give us a review, five-star rating, and maybe even share an episode that you've loved with a friend.

If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe. We're on video now. Fly on the Wall is presented by Odyssey, and executive produced by Danny Carvey and David Spade, Heather Santoro and Greg Holtzman, Maddie Sprung Kaiser, and Leah Reese Dennis of Odyssey. Our senior producer is Greg Holtzman, and the show is produced and edited by Phil Sweet Tech.

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