Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade - RE-RELEASE - Bob Odenkirk

Episode Date: August 7, 2025

Originally published in 2022, we thought it felt right to dust off this super fun episode with our good friend Bob. Just in time for his new movie Nobody 2! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Please gamble responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact ConX Ontario at 1-866-531-2-600 to speak to an advisor, free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. You know, David, our good friend is a movie star, and he's an action star. His name is Bob Odenkirk. Robert Odenkirk, that's one of our favorite guests, because we've known him forever since the 80s, and then he comes out in nobody's, and he plays an action star.

I know him in the 90s, too, and going forward. I knew him in the 90s. God, dang. And so he's got next week, it comes out, and nobody two. Nobody two. I saw this billboard. And I think he talked about a little bit on here. It was great. You know, we love Bob.

For him to spin into this is crazy. And then they get a sequel. That's how you know it was a success. I saw the first one. I will see the second one. A lot of fun. And also, he's just funny anyway. But he gets to play this, which I'm so jealous, you know.

I know. And he, we talk about during this podcast, how funny he knows it is that first he becomes a great TV star, better call Saul, and now he's an action movie star later in his career where he had all this, he'll go over it in the episode about his career and stuff. And we laughed a lot. And how he just gets us off the ground because of tomorrow day and I said, I want to do an action movie. No one's just handing me a budget to do an action. You know, you have to sort of, plus I'm so fragile, but you have to sort of figure out a way. to get that across but he does a lot of training well i'll tell you i'll tell yeah yeah it's it's just great the sound effects it where you turn your shoulder and you hear that crunch you know he's he does it great i mean because also he's at heart he's a comedian you know and then he's an actor so it all combined so that'll be good but this episode i loved one of my favorites so hope you enjoy it oh wait i have a great i have a great beginning ready here we go robert john odenkirk was born in benron

Illinois to Barbara and John. Then you got S&L. Wikipedia alert. That's really all there is to it. That's really a big jump. Well, it's all that matters, right? A little birdie told me at this morning, at a given point, he said, everybody knew Bob Odenkirk was the funniest guy in Chicago. Someone told me that today when I was doing my research.

At some point in time, his initials are R.S. Oh, jeez. Robert. Robert. Robert thought that. Robert thought that, but I don't think anyone else thought that. Did Chicago vote on that? I just said it was common knowledge.

No, they would have picked someone else. Yeah. Larry, Larry, oh, what's his name? He's a stand-up in Chicago. No. Larry Farley. Oh, shit. No, he was actually really funny.

The cable guy? comic who did zanies all the time oh dr i should know i should know this chicago guy and it never never left the chicago circuit you know who's really funny is a guy named mike to me uh also a chicago who just stayed there we had will durst yeah we had san francisco you know yeah just they like it yeah some people don't want to branch out they just they do well there they make money there and they just stay that's right that's right that's right

right and they like the town they get plenty of work they get married and have kids and they and they don't go crazy like the rest of us and their local stars right they go on the top radio show anyway bob how are you how are you this is what i would ask you if we were at a restaurant i'd say bob how are you yeah um just general i'm so good because i'm talking to you guys that's the best answer i've ever got thank you i really i really love that you asked me to do this and that I get to hang out with you because it's true. It's like I listen to podcast to listen to my friends talk to hear their voices. And because we don't get to do anything either because we're working or COVID fucked us up for two years or, you know, or, you know, just lives you get separated by having families and stuff.

And it's just a really wonderful thing to get to just hang out with people. And I've been listening to a lot to the Gilbert Godfrey podcast, which has been so entertaining, even though I didn't know Gilbert very well. But a lot of people I do know are on that, you know. And he just was, yeah, you know, Gilbert, you know, when I worked with the funny boys, do you remember that? Yeah. There was a comedy team in the old days. Yes. Jim Valley and Jonathan Schmach, both funny on their own and they wrote together and performed.

And so they were the guys that got me in the improv. Louis got me in the comedy store and I didn't make it. I was 20. And the funny boys got me in the improv and I did make it. And I stayed on Jim Valley's couch and then he goes, I'm leaving for a week, but someone's going to stay here. And I go in and it's like, hello. It was Gilbert Godfried in his underpants. And he just sat eating cocoa puffs.

And I had a roommate for a week. And I was like, who's this man? I didn't, you know, it's very weird to live with someone you don't know. And so I don't know him well like you, Bob, but I did get to spend a week just hearing them that I'd see him out and about. He was so funny. You know, I used to say what everyone else said, very, very interesting brain and, uh, it sounds like he would, you and, uh, Gilbert would share some certain sensibilities, Bob, you know,

the way he deconstructed, I mean, his, his Ander Dice Clay bit, his bad impression, they were just so funny. man he's just yeah i mean i certainly appreciated the hell out of him you know he was uh i only would see him around in new york actually and you probably did two at clubs you know when i did s nl you guys probably don't know this but i would go because you probably didn't even know i did some stand-up once in a while but i would do sunday night at the improv which is not a you know it's kind of a sad club but it for me for me it was like i'd just get a couple of laughs and it just was like it made me feel so much better after my week of getting the shit kicked

out of me and just to even get a few laughs on that stage meant a lot to me it like charged me up for the week ahead and uh and so i would see him and larry david and and those guys around that club um yeah it was it was interesting well those are hard-earned laughs i mean when you're by yourself and you walk up and just get a couple laughs there's is that means a lot yeah yeah and uh but it it gave me a little boost that i needed um and when stand-up is giving you a boost you know you're in a hole i remember going that improv that's true i Dana this is stupid but and we'll get to bob in about 40 minutes but what i did is i used to i would come from a Arizona and they said i was a stand-up and my buddy said uh he knows this guy

Gary Grant that can book you gigs. So I'd fly the crumbiest airline. I'd stay at Columbia with my friend. I would take my suitcase with props. Oh, yeah. And I would get my New York coat, in quotes, which is my heavy, like, you know, like winter coat I would never wear in Arizona.

It looked like a dust try. I looked like young guns. So then I'd walk to the subway, take the subway to 44th, walk to the improv, wait until they assign me some comedian. I remember this guy was 36. And I go, if I'm still doing this at age 36, please kill me, because I was 20. And then we drove to like BF Packies or somewhere in Jersey.

This is how you did it. I'd do a set, bomb. I would get maybe 60 bucks, come home, maybe spring for cab fare because it's too late and scary to the subway. And do that for two weeks, and I'd clear 500. And it was great. But I got to see the improv. And I thought the improv, I'd always meet at the improv was the point. But I, it was so, I always heard about it.

And I go in there, and the stage is like four inches high. It's like not that big of a deal. Not at all. You know, what was interesting about that when I first went there was they had that wall of photographs when you came out of the showroom into the bar. And in those photographs were stuff from the 60s and 70s. And there's Andy Kaufman and there's, you know, um, probably Jerry Seinfeld's up there. But then there's a guy juggling and there's a singer.

And I asked, I don't know, I don't think I asked Silver who ran that club at the time, but I asked probably the bartender or somebody, what's with the singer and what is this juggler doing? And they said, well, that's what the club used to be. That's what all clubs used to be is specialty act, singer, or music, and then a comic. And Sullivan, yeah. And then it became, and then the stand-up comedy boom hit, and it was like, everybody get the fuck out of here. It's just stand-ups.

It's just. Then you had like Peter Potofsky. There was like guys that were juggler comedians, magic comedians, and they kept the comedy part in. It was probably easier to get on stage. You know, I think it probably, there's some value to it in that, you know, if it's just one comic after another, it's like, if there's just something between the comics that can kind of clear the palette a little bit

it's kind of a I don't know to me the issue I had and I write about it in my book which is why we're talking right comedy comedy comedy drama I'm halfway through it's great fascinating I hope you like it Dana I just got to the comedy comedy comedy I have my own lane of this life we shared together and then where we intersected was so cool i just have great memories of you and we wrote a movie together which you primarily wrote but called tusson and uh we had a lot we had a lot of fun tucson yeah that still is a great really funny script oh yeah thanks dana i think so too i think it's a great scenario that you cooked up which is that little guy in the west Irishman, yeah.

Irishmen with good with his guns, but just sweet as hell. And so the opposite of Clint Eastwood, just the very polar opposite of a Clint Eastwood character. And so what was I saying? You remember the first scene? I thought it must have been. It's so you. Oh, what? Well, I think I come to town.

I'm from Ireland. Yeah, and Lovitz has got a hangman's noose around him. And there's posters. He was running for mayor, and the posters said, If I don't clean up the town, you can hang me. And then Lovitz was the conniving. Oh, hello. And I was, well, I put with my guns, I know.

So anyway, but that was, but. There was a joke in there, Dana, that somebody else did in a movie very, in the last few years. It was one of the characters was named like Clint Eastwood. Yeah. And there was some, his name was Clint Eastwood. And there was so much great stuff. Somebody did that joke recently. Didn't you write?

Yeah, or John Ham, sometimes when John Ham is in a show, they call him John Ham. Just as on Larry David, it's funny. Yeah. The new BMO ViPorter MasterCard is your ticket to more. More perks, more points, more flights, more of all the things you want in a travel rewards card, and then some. Get your ticket to more with the new Bemo ViPorter MasterCard. and get up to $2,400 in value in your first 13 months. Terms and conditions apply.

Visit bemo.com slash the iPorter to learn more. Hello, it's Lena Dunham. I host a podcast called The Sea Word with my dearest friend and historian of bad behavior, Alyssa Bennett. What is up? It's a chat show about women whose society is called Crazy. We're going to be rediscovering the stories of women's society

dismissed by calling them math. sad or just plain bad listen to and follow the c word with lena dunham and elissa bennett available now wherever you get your podcasts should we go back to and then make our way to s&L i just i i'm sort of curious because i don't didn't see it but what was the stuff that well you know got you i talk a lot about the trauma of s and l you know i i i s&L is pretty easy to write about because it was so hard and difficult for me personally but that's true for a lot of people and the story's been told many times but I just told my version of it but it's such a crucible right of pressure and desire and and

discovering yourself and and it just leads to a lot of interior trauma and then that's something to write about whereas you know when I got to the later part of the book and I'm writing about Breaking Bad where well I mean there was a journey there to become a better actor but also the journey of the show becoming famous but the show itself was a well-oiled machine with nothing but pros in every direction and nobody having any emotional issues just working really hard and supporting each other and pulling together yeah and so there's not much to say we you know isn't it great the writers did a great job and then we all worked really hard and turned out well and there's nothing to say and we it's not like if they if someone is a

good scene and everyone goes that guy's the best one he's the best one in that scene and then the rest of the day you're getting it day to day I assume like you you when you're doing better calls all like it's a great day it's going to be great right yeah there's a yeah I mean especially over time, the more you do it and you get to know the values of the show, what's good about the show, and you see it coming across in the writing, and you know what you captured that day and think, well, that's going to play really well or be fun to watch. And yeah, it's just not the, there's not as much to say as there is to say about Saturday Night Live,

where there's so many books and so many, and they're all fascinating. I love them all, by the way. I mean, one of the reasons I wrote my book is I love to read showbiz memoirs. I just love them. Yeah. And usually when somebody gets into something that works and or they're talking about their hit show, there's not much to say. It's all about the struggle and the failure and the loss and the, that's where there's juicy stories. You know, Dana, when I got there, Bob was there already when I got for the viewers.

Yeah. Bob was there and Dana was there and I came in. And Bob is always, I saw Bob more than Dana just because Bob was a writer with me and we were in there all the time. But Bob's always sort of in a good mood, shockingly when I look back because it's hard to be in a good mood of that place. But always laughing, always took a second for me. So did Conan. But you guys at least would explain a little bit of what was going on because I was really a Rube, just right. I was a middle act. I didn't know how to. to write. I didn't know how to use, I didn't know how to use a yellow pad. I didn't know how I had a square wooden desk and they just down and he goes, here's your room, bye. And I'm like, I don't know what's going on. What am I doing? And so I would, everyone has so much to do on their own plate. You do, Bob, Dana does. And it's hard to take a second to tell someone, hey, because it's someone that not ultimately might take your job, but just one more person kind of in your way in a weird way and you have to put that aside for a second and be a human being. And you did that.

It was very nice. And now whenever I see you at a party, if it's a showbiz thing, I don't see Dana out as much unless we have dinner, but I run into Bob places and then I just beeline over to him because we always just start laughing within seconds. And that's fun to have. And we got through the craziness and we're both sort of sane.

Absolutely, buddy. That's how I feel. I never told you this, but that party at Gio Series where I met McCormack. Cartney and got to sit with him for 15, 20 minutes. As we, as Naomi and I were walking in, my wife and I, I'm dreading going to this party because I'm, you know, 59 or at the time, 54 or whatever and thinking, fuck it. I don't want to go out anymore at all, ever.

And, and I'm, I'm thinking it's just going to be intimidating. There's going to be famous people here. And I don't know what to say to them. And I turned to Naomi and I go, you know what? David Spade will be here. And, buddy, we walk in the front door and we look down the hall and there you are. It fucking blew our minds. I love it.

He's a man about town. There was one time I went to guys. I went to guys. I didn't even go to. I obviously don't go to the Oscars. If I didn't go to Vanity Fair or anything, I just went straight over to guys because Rock was over there. And I get there.

And before you get in, there's a line for the bathroom. So I just stand in a line for a second. And then McCartney comes behind me. And then he has a little chitter chatter, and then I'm floored, and then Bono comes out. So I knew I was like, again, like you, I don't think anyone knows what to say to anyone. So I do a few jokes that, you know, sort of strike out, and then we all kind of dart our eyes, and then I drift away. Well, Bob, do you have something throughout, you know, Mr. Show or anything? If someone comes up to you in an airport or something, I assume like most of every specific compliments are the most flattering rather than you're great.

you know because someone came up to me i'll just couch it they came up to me at an airport and they said i love skinheads in main the thing i did with colbert on my show and it's so specific my friends share that laugh about it all the time but you must have a hundred of those especially with mr show there's so many quirky mr show i'll tell you i have uh yeah i mean we've all gotten to do lots of cool stuff between the three of us i've just had this the variety in my crew is sometimes strange in its intensity, you know, because this movie, nobody that I did, this action movie, that's like around the world, a whole different audience that probably, they've never heard a Mr. Show. Some of them have seen Breaking Bad and they're just like a whole other set of

people. But, but you know, the strangest thing is, is I always do have to do the math when somebody comes up to me of like, I have no idea what you know me from, what you think I did that was great. And I've had the biggest surprise is how more than a few times a year, somebody will come up and go, you are so great on how I met your mother. I mean, you're just the best. Wow. And it's like, I was on the show six times. Do you have anything like that, David?

Do you have anything? Probably. Yeah, I mean, there are little nuggets that I've done that, you know, I get Emperor's New Groove, and that's the only thing they know me from because of my voice. And then you get things. that are like light sleeper where I played one scene and someone doesn't really know you at all and they know you're famous or you're something

but that's the only thing in your whole life they saw and they appreciate it so I'm happy and it's true I can sort of guess by who's coming up I'm guessing sort of what they know me from you know what I mean and you might be able to get a feel if they just say you're great I go yeah well let's now let's dig it I find that if someone is funny or in one scene of a movie or one part of a show

if they catch me and really make me laugh or impress me, I'm kind of like a fan from then on, even if it's just like a small cameo. But Bob, the interesting part of your story, obviously, is like we know where it sort of is, it went. And I'm just wondering, when we go back to 87 to 91 and knowing you and your work ethic, you're smart, some funny, all that stuff.

Like, how does that guy, what was the emotional? I mean, who was Bob in those years that was so tenacious? and so talented that then you went to this and then of course nobody is that they're going to make 10 of those that was so great for that genre to reinvent that genre thanks thanks

listen first of all I got to tell you when they finally greenlit that movie and I went to go make it obviously I'm thinking probably we're going to fuck everything up and it'll be amazing but I also thought if it works if it works

yeah then the thing I'm most excited about is my friends going, what the fuck? Yes, I said it. I love it. It, what? It's like Bob is doing this now

and it's not a one-off. That is too good. It's like too fucking good. I watch it and I go, this better be exactly what I think it's going to be and it was and it delivered and the fight I think it was on a bus or something. I'm like, what the fuck? I could even do. I was like

I'm a bigger puss. I don't all of us and I couldn't even do the fake stunts for that because I'm such a pussy I'd be like we can't even fake do it with you yeah it's because I go I don't really need to get beaten up but I can't lift my leg up and kick and I might still hurt my clavicle if I hold this too high so I like that it was you and you have to be in shape oh yeah just to do a very fit for that right I really did I just to do anything I worked really hard because I knew I had a long way to go and I and I and listen right from the start it was like look if we're going to do this, it's not going to be ironic.

I'm not going to wink at the camera. I'm not going to give myself an out. I'm going to look if I'm going to look like an asshole. I'm going to look like a huge middle life crisis, loser, pathetic. Like what happened to you guy? I'm going to do this thing all the way or not at all. And then if it works, it's amazing. Yeah.

And if it doesn't work, well, who didn't think it wouldn't work? I mean, come on. But I did. When do you realize it worked? At a test screening or at just rough dailies or is a certain point where you go, this is actually coming together. COVID really worked in our favor because we had a cut. It was good, but it felt kind of like an indie movie.

It was a little slow and small. And then this, because of COVID, this editor, who's the second editor on the project, whose name is on it because it should be, said, I got nothing to do. give me your movie let me fuck with it and two weeks later this guy wow the movie back to us and it was like oh wow okay wait a second and the interesting thing is he added he built the sequence that opens the film out of shit that was on the cutting room floor didn't not shot for the movie just thrown away what a worker and everything else in the movie all he did was chop it a little bit

shift some of the order a little bit not much all and it was a totally different movie totally different experience and just work from the get-go that tighten and brighton it was amazing what this guy did because you connected to the character because it does work in in the whole emotional arc you really do feel some i feel sympathetic for your character i want him to win yeah well that's actually honestly that's one of the things I thought I could bring to that genre is just so I've yeah vulnerability genuine like that you bought yeah like because a lot of times you know you don't really they try to have it but they force you don't really buy it but you don't care if you're watching an action

movie a lot of times you don't care you're like so what I like this guy I like this scenario hit somebody yeah it's fine go let's see the action let's have some fun with it but I thought is there something I could bring to this genre and I thought you know around the world I'm known from Better Call Saul and that's a character who's getting his

ass kicked in a lot of ways and emotionally getting his ass kicked and I play him and there's a sort of a great degree of empathy that people have for that guy and what the story they've

Evan Schiff is the editor Evan Schiff came on board and made that thing a beauty. It's important to give credit. I love it. Yeah. Well, if you're bullied a lot, Bob, like I was and Dana was, and those movies are fucking I love because it's what I can never do. When you see like Death Wish with Charles Bronson, he's at least a guy that's not getting bullied every day because he's tough.

But when you see a guy like you, I totally buy. I go, all right, Bob's a nice guy. He's out there trying to fucking get through the world like every. everybody and people just always fuck they do it to me all the time and so i know chris rock is doing the sequel but anyway um but i feel like when you when you when you see you in that situation and i'm like please fucking screw these guys up it's like the equalizer or something right right right and it's the fantasy wish fulfillment that i could deliver on because i could really be that first iteration of the guy and you really really felt like yeah he really is yeah he really is

It's not just, you know, I don't know, Tom Cruise with glasses on or, you know, or a buttoned-up shirt, a shirt buttoned up to the collar, you know. I think you go into a bar, you go into someone and you say, you want to see somebody, they don't want you to, and you don't back down at all on anything, which is I love, you just go, I think it's best if you, and you're like, this is the way I want to talk in all my whole life. I just want to say, listen, here's what's going to happen. I hit you, you hit the ground. I hit the next guy, he goes down. And the guy's like, what are you talking about? And you're like, just, you wait about 30 seconds. You'll see how this hit goes.

You know, I love that shit. I love it. So the fun of this, this idea, this thing I had, the secret I had inside me when I'm training, which is like my friends, Dana Carvey, David Spade, all these guys, if I get to make this and it comes off, they're just not going to know where to turn. They're going to have to go to the hospital and get an MRI. Yeah, definitely. It was a little bit of opening an old-fashioned newspaper.

Bob Oterkirk starring in action film. What the fuck? And the picture, the poster's like you kind of beat up, I think. That is a great poster. What's going on here? Yeah. Well, it was a great joy to make that happen and to have that come to life. But anyway.

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Oh, I just for a second, because you're starring in this film. And, you know, film and television of all overlap now, it's like the best stuff's on television. You're starting a film. So, like, when you're like in the 70s, whatever, what films woke you up to filmhood or show business? Like, what was a seminal film for you as a kid? You know, it could be for Ben Stiller, it was the Poseidon adventure. for uh for uh for uh for uh bill hater it was taxi driver uh i'll tell you i can tell you american graffiti oh yeah okay ron howard

1973 harrison ford yeah and and uh you know i'd gone to films you know fun movies at the Cineplex and they were just building Cineplexes at the time but we had an old time movie theater in our small town of Naperville, Illinois, and I'd seen a John Wayne film there on its first run. That's how old I am. Rio Lobo. Yeah. Yeah.

I thought it was the Cowboys. And I liked it. And it was great. And I loved going to movies when I could. But we didn't go to a lot of movies. But going to that little old theater where, you know, they showed just the latest thing from the studios for. week or two right um and seeing american graffiti man that was a totally different vibe yeah

than every everything i had i remember it in that theater or anywhere that was uh it was uh new wave for film in america and uh it felt more real um it's uh it had a modern energy to it and uh it's a very good film. I mean, it's really good. Yeah. It's so interesting to see a movie that sort of changes the way you think, and maybe it tilted you toward comedy, maybe not, but just that's the beauty of movies when you see a bunch that do nothing

and you're just sort of killing time, and then one just grabs you. Nothing like it. It's what you want to do when you make movies. You go, I want one that people remember. Right, right. That's a fun of far. Yeah, that's the thing, a movie can be that a TV show, pretty much isn't, which is this kind of very core elemental connection that just gets you deep,

deeply. It's like a, it's a fable, and it's, and it really takes you on a ride. I think with TV, you're always, no matter how well it's done, you just aren't as close to those lead characters. You're still just watching the story. You can be totally wrapped in the story, but you're just not, I don't know, I feel like movies just kind of grab you and take you on that one ride and you feel close to those characters in a personal way. Yeah, but, you know, it's just theory. It might be the fact that it's singular, you know, Bob, like, it's just you go, and this is at beginning, middle end, and you go, wow, and you want to see the whole thing again.

And TV sometimes you go, if someone says, did you see the series? I'm like, oh, what? And they're like, it's on episode four. I mean, you know, like season for you. I can't, I don't have $200 right now. Go ahead, Bob. I just think the power of film more than ever now is turning off the cell phone and not being distracted because you're watching something with your wife.

You're enjoying it. And then ring, ding, a ding, a ding, a ding. I mean, it's just, it's a problem. Yeah. You know, so the focus of a film. Yeah, well, yeah, is really strong and really a powerful experience. Anyway, I still love TV and I love everything. that we all get to do. And I really, I like moving around. And I certainly don't think I have a

career, a future as a movie star, but I will get to make a few more movies, but it's not important to me. It wasn't like the drive of my life. I, I was driven by comedy as my book really, really says. I mean, I'm really trying to warn people with that title. Yeah. I know a lot of people know warn them. Better call Saul and breaking bad, but I want to say, oh, right. Yeah, I'm going to talk about, you know, comedy in Chicago in 1980, 85. And you're probably not going to give a shit about that.

Right. You definitely have fans that don't know you from comedy at all. Yeah, at all, at all. That's rare for us, for, you know, for comedians that you have a whole huge new crowd. It's, yeah, it's true. And I, and I, I want to move. around between these things because that's always been the most fun thing for me. And that's one of the reasons I think I love sketch comedy so much is you just jumping around from

different ideas, different, you know, different tones. Something's really broad. Something's a little subtler. You know, I like jumping around between all that stuff. So how did you find yourself because not everyone, if people should read the book, but you know, just quickly that journey from, I know Monty Python was a big, big wake up call for you. And then you live in Chicago, Second City. What was it about Monty Python that's not in the book? You know, what are your, even today, you feel like that is the one that you and your brother Bill just went. Holy shit. Yeah.

You know, I think, you know, there's a lot of comedy in the 70s that we all watched. It had kind of a, look, some of it was great, you know, for sure. I mean, I loved Carol Burnett's show. The vibe with those people was like joining a part. that was a very welcoming party. Friendly and sweet. It wasn't like they were, yeah, friendly and sweet. And we sure needed that in my house.

So I love that. But I think Python was, for me, the thing that spoke about how I looked at the world and it kind of put an arm around me and said, yeah, the adults are crazy assholes. And don't worry, it's, you're not the only one thinking this. And it's okay. okay you can laugh at it that's what you can do and uh and i think it's because you know they're young guys they were in their 20s making that show um and they were very smart and they're very silly

like extremely silly but very smart yeah and that's that's that's the that's the tough combo to get right that's the magic combination to me and uh and i just it just spoke to my the way I needed to see the world to be really comforted, you know, I mean, this is one all the things we do and the things that affect us on a deep level do in, in whether it's a movie or a book or a TV show or someone's stand-up act, is it makes you feel less alone. You just get that feeling of, I'm not the only one who sees this in the world. And when you're a kid and you're 10 or 11 at the time I was, I think 11. When I first saw Python, that is a crucial, you're just about to become an adult, probably really sensing. And in my house, I mean, life was extremely unstable at that point, because there's, at that point, five kids, two more to come. Wow. Two more to come.

How the fuck does that happen when, you know, financially, it's off the rails. There's no future. or there's no stability anywhere anywhere near you and like how and you just as a kid you know no one's including you in any of that shit your parents are your daughter is alec Baldwin oh boy I wish she was mine wasn't a picnic either but we've talked about this I'm sure privately but it was rough but here sounds really intense and yeah but I mean look you know but it's not that special yeah I mean, I try to express in the book, look, I know my child is not special. It is a very typical 70s childhood.

You know, people were just starting to have the word alcoholism in their vocabulary. I mean, there was, you know, it was just coming to understand a lot of it. All of my dad's friends all ended up broke, bankrupt, divorced. Really? And yeah, he used to take us out. He said, occasionally when he would hang out with us, he would take us to his office and we'd go to lunch with these five guys. And they'd get fucking ripped at lunch. And all of them, car crashes, divorce.

It's America. Playbook. It was like the playbook. Hey, you had your car crash. I'm next. I'm next. You know, and I remember my dad, quiet, getting in his car accident. And his was a good one.

He went through the window. his car accident yeah he went through the window and landed like 15 feet outside the car oh wow and i remember him looking in the mirror picking glass out of his head like even like a week later he's still picking little pieces of glass out of his out of his bald head geez so you went in but come that was a 70s that was a dad yeah right my dad was a joke we had we had all kinds of excitement yeah yeah but look the bottom line is it wasn't special it was just where i was at when comedy came yeah and told me yeah he's nuts it's crazy it's okay just laugh at it and and uh and steve martin on s nl was also like a superpower rocket ship to like crazy town and the best

comedy the best mix of you know conceptualized you know like the the best drunk brothers like that's fucking off the rails stuff you know wild and crazy guys

wild and crazy guys but they pull it off and it isn't look there was a thing about the 70s humor that was kind of cute and palsy and wasn't didn't make me happy the dangerous stuff is what made me happy. And that's what came in, came around around, you know, this time for me. Yeah, Carlin.

By the way, your American graffiti was my life of Brian in Arizona. I saw Life of Brian. And I was like, what the fuck is? I didn't know anything on Monty Python. I just went to a comedy and we snuck in because it was R-rated. Wild. And it really hit me like, what the fuck are these guys? It was nothing like I'd seen. And, you know, I don't want to harp on it, but I just wanted to acknowledge that Monty Python stuff did hit me also. I mean, I saw Animal House. I saw Animal House. I saw all the stuff I'm supposed to see and fucking loved. And then that was just a little different move. And smart, silly, of course, and just doing stuff we didn't do here.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I had the same reaction. All of my friends loved it. And you, now, Bob, I have to ask Bob if he wrote for Dennis because I didn't know that. I don't think I knew you wrote for Dennis Miller before S&L? Yeah, before I got on as a writer, I would send jokes. Well, I would send scripts to Robert. Here's what happened.

Okay. I was doing different crazy shit. in Chicago, stand-up, sketch shows, anything. And Robert Smigel, I'd seen his work at this little theater that we all went to school at called The Players Workshop, and he wrote a show there that later became a hit show. They ran for like a year and a half and made tons of money. And so I saw that show in its early iterations, and it was already solid as such good writing. so strong and so like it just works like i had a his hit ratio of like 15 percent and and i didn't

care by the way that was fine and uh and smigl had a hit ratio of like 90 percent and it was like yeah he was a big slugging for say holy shit man i don't know where that comes from you know robert says it's the ruper pumpkin effect is what he calls his achievement as as a young writer, where all these years I've been pretending in my head that I was this writer and I've been sort of writing stuff in my head like Rupert Pupkin in his basement. And then he said, if you notice on the show in the movie, the King of Comedy, when he actually gets a chance, it actually works. He's actually pretty good.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's like just from hundreds of hours of, you know, of doing it in front of the, you in front of the wall and uh and and i hadn't done what robert did i think not even close to the hours he'd put in on really examining writing and sketch work and what a sketch is and and uh but he had i saw his work i loved it he saw me in this crazy show it was off the rail silly stuff but i was doing characters and i was my i mean the only thing you could recommend about it was my commitment and my silliness. I mean, it was super silly. And he got that I was willing to just go that

far and thought it was cool. And we started writing a show together. And then he got hired at SNL. And so here I am in Chicago. And he doesn't know anybody when he gets to SNL. So he's calling me up on a Monday and going, I have these two ideas calling me again on Tuesday, reading the script to me. I'm going, do this joke. What about this? I'm just pitching jokes and he had he just has a partner even though he's you know at SNL new to the job and he's got someone to call and work his stuff on with and work his stuff with on and uh so i'm sending stuff in he i guess he's sharing it with some other writers and then i'm sending jokes in for dennis and dennis is doing them i mean that you know what that means to

Oh, yeah. Waiting tables in Chicago to go. Oh, you see a joke on the air? Yeah, I remember my first joke. I remember delivering food to the table at Ed DeBevics in Chicago, and I keep checking the screen because they have SNL on. You can't hear it, but it's on the TV. And there's that picture of Bob Hope, and there's my nasty joke, mean-spirited joke,

mean-spirited from this fucking kid. Do you want to tell us what it is? the statute of limitations on respecting Bob Hope for his earlier work ran out today taking a shot

I love it and that's the Statue of Limitations it's all the language and you know it's like a nicely tightly written and it's short and tight and it's something everyone's thinking no one says out loud and it

It did great. And Dennis does a couple of my jokes over the next year or two. And Smigel, actually, there was one scene I wrote that got on. It was the side show of the stars. So, you know, they had circus of the stars. And this was sideshow of the stars where they have, you know, I don't even remember the jokes, but somebody's got hair all over their body that you didn't know or something, you know, sitcom actor.

and Robert, of course, punched that way up. But I only got, that was the only sketch that I got on when I hadn't been a writer there yet. And then I had that meeting with Lauren that I detailed in the book and I kind of exaggerated. But the truth is, Dana and David, I went into Lauren's office and I really did think this guy does not want his ass kissed. he's heard enough people you know praise him he wants to if he's going to hire somebody he wants to hear somebody with a critical mind who's a moxie i got to hear what he said i'm sure it's in the book well i mean i just went like uh yeah i don't know what do you think of the show do you like it i don't know i could fix it's been better

It's been better for sure. I mean, I think the early years, you know, and what, what, what comedy do you like? What do you like? Oh, Monty Python. Monty Python. Now, that was great. And that was great because it was smart and silly and, and they didn't have to, you know, they didn't, they knew their lines.

They were, you know, reading cue cards. Yeah. I'm fucking ripping the show. Well, thanks for coming in, Bob. I kind of think he's going to like this, you know. talk about not reading a room man holy shit and uh and the fact that he hired me is insane the only thing i had in my favor was he doesn't really i want to he doesn't have to examine that kind of hiring that

closely i mean if a couple writers want you to hire somebody you're going to say sure go ahead give him a try we can they think they're good because he doesn't he's not for how can he tell on a meeting yeah but he goes in fairness i wasn't listening the other thing i'd say david is i mean lauren loves python too oh yeah friends with all of lord also yeah Lauren probably would say if you said what's the best comedy show of the last hundred years he'd go oh well it's not my show it's money python you know and so the fact is he probably kind of well the other thing is he also knows what it's like to sit across from a very nervous young person who doesn't know what to say is completely wildly intimidated and he's just

done that 10,000 times and probably kind of gave me a little break for that maybe sure he's a he's a he's very funny also and I don't know if that always comes across so we talk about him because we joke but he's very funny he's very dry and he and when you can make Lauren laugh at read through it's so fun yeah when he cracks up yeah sometimes he slaps the table and laughs and you're like oh my God, what a home run. Yeah. I never did that, but, yeah. Bob, we, uh, Dane, I don't know if you remember when I was having some troubles in

the show and I think I would just credit Bob with, uh, the one in my picture in my head when I'm joking about People magazine or just killing time of the day. And Bob is a great laffer, by the way, which always helps disarm, you know, make you feel better. And sincere laugher, sort of came up with Hollywood Minute and steered it with me and, uh, remember Bob, we were thinking, like, maybe it could be a show. David, what did I do to help you with that? I just said, what you do here back in the writer's room, you should just do that. Yes, it was something that simple, but it made me, and we were framing it.

And I'm like, could it be a show called Guess What? Remember, it's like, guess what? You're an idiot. You know, and then it turned into like just a series of photos, which when you said that Bob Hope one, that was kind of like a simple way it's put, you know, do a joke, try to think of something people are thinking everyone's kissing ass to celebrities we're and i i was unknown which helped you know just innocent looking that was part of it that's why it took i didn't want to do it as much later because i sort of turned into someone people knew and then it's then it turns meaner and

it was just kind of fun to take someone's legs out for no reason like hey this guy is famous fuck you and you know and then and there was always a reason like i didn't want to go on people more than once because you know you get one freebie if they screw up and I didn't want it to be that mean it was just for fun but yeah but it was a big help just the fact that you encourage or even listen to me in between we're eating Wally and Josephs or whatever uh it was nice and then it sort of just got me thinking you know I love to hear somebody young you know I've helped a couple young talent uh groups or people to find some way forward.

And it's because I know what it's like to tread water and lose ground and be lost. And if you can give somebody a little cue that maybe gives them a shortcut or clarifies what they're doing already. And it's a great feeling to be able to do that. And I guess I've done that even more than I thought. But I like to do it. I mean, part of it is, you know, one of the ways that you can use your skills when you've been at S&L for a few years as a writer. And by the time you were there, I'd been there for three years. And I finally was feeling like I'm starting to understand what the show needs.

Because instead of what I wanted it to be, which was insane, because it's never going to be Monty Python. You couldn't change it to what you are. Oh, my God. There's so much about it. Deal with the reality. What's the reality? How can you help? What's the show?

It took me for years, years. Yeah. But somewhere around my third year, my brain started to calm down and go, wait, it's not this other thing that you want it to be. It is a thing that is as all kinds of, first of all, it's so fucking hard to do. You know, whenever we talk about it and we critique the show and, I mean, the fucking thing just on the face of it is impossible. It's an impossible thing. It's absurd.

And the more I go back, the more I go, when I go back and see the show being done, I'm like, oh, my God. This is impossible. You know, when I was young, I never thought that. Oh, my God. When I got hired there, I was like, come on, how come this isn't better? Come on, work, you guys. This is not hard. This is easy.

This shouldn't be hard. You know? And it's like, once you've produced a few things, you're like, you want me to do a show Saturday night with sets? And how good all the departments are. Yeah, the departments are so fucking on it. They're so good. They're so crap. Anyway.

Did you ever think during a long dress show, sometimes I thought maybe tonight's the night, the show won't, the show won't go on, they'll show a rerun or something. Sometimes it just seemed like. I never thought that. I mean, I think it more now, but again, when I was there, Dana, when I started there, I had such, I don't know, you know, you guys know, the people who start in this business, there's such a strange mix of confidence, self-doubt, ego, self-hatred. It's the weirdest. Like, how does it work? How does it work that you have a friend? You know, we all have a friend. literally walks around all day hating themselves talking about how stupid and dumb they are and then gets on stage and tells a crowd of strangers what they think like what's a bad house well how does that work something's wrong here because if you don't think

you're worth anything then then you shouldn't be thinking i give me that mic i need to tell everyone And give me that, Mike. I just always felt. I need to lecture these people. No frills, delivers. Get groceries delivered to your door from No Frills with PC Express. Shop online and get $15 in PC optimum points on your first five orders. Shop now at nofrills.ca.

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18 plus subscription required TNCs apply. Bob, I always felt if I didn't kill, I'd get fired. I felt like I had to destroy it. Maybe I pushed a little too much at times until I got to Johnny Carson was the only sketch I did toward the end where I wasn't pushing. But I just wanted to make the point that, are you still with this? Your screen's frozen. Oh, okay. God, you were just.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Is that it seemed like you were, like if you told me you had a pretty good time on SNL, wouldn't surprise it. It seems like you were sort of around a lot. Like you'd be in a room with Conan or Robert. Or here's an example I wanted the audience to hear. Franken and I are doing a George Bush senior. We're sitting around somewhere going, damn, I'm doing the thing, got to do it, got to go. And then it was, we're trying to go.

I think Al said in the lesson of Vietnam, and you had just eavesdropped or just walked by, and you just went, stay out of Vietnam. And that killed on the show on Saturday. Lesson of Vietnam, stay out of Vietnam. Do you remember that moment, Bob? But I think you were around the show a lot. grumpy old man was really your you originated that i don't know it seemed like you were around you know i i listen if i try to think of the things i contributed to s and l and basically i say

in my book that i didn't help at all and i got paid and i learned so much about how to write a sketch and what a sketch is made of and i but and then i gave nothing back nothing in return like Lauren totally got the shit end of the stick with me. But probably those things maybe added up to something. The little things that I was able to do because Robert included me in writing or, you know, anybody did. I mean, I can think of some of them because they stick out because they were, it would meant a lot to me when I was able to help and say something that helped. I wanted it to work. That's the other thing.

Sometimes I think when I talk about the show, it sounds like I hated the show or thought I was dumb and fuck this place. And it's not true. It's not true. I wanted nothing more than to be helpful and meaningful there. And it would have meant so much to me to feel that way. But I just did my best. and uh you brought in like motivational speaker which is one of the greats i mean that that's just

that alone you could have fucking i know but david that was after i left that scene was on is that true that was the next yeah that they did that scene the year after i left now they gave me credit for it of course because i wrote it i wrote it alone in my apartment in chicago but but that wasn't even i had left manned down by the river just that wow Vaned down by the river I mean, just the fact that it's one of the most I mean, listen, I just was in the scene and I hear about it every day.

So, but I had nothing do with it. I just was cast, thank God, Lord Jesus. Well, you guys know that I was proud as I am that I wrote it and I'm supremely proud. It's a standout moment in my life. And SNL's life. You know, Chris Farley is the reason. Freight train.

He's just, come on. I mean, that guy, I mean, I mean, I talk about him a lot in the book, and it's weird, and it's fun to talk to you guys right now because I mentioned to Howard Stern on his podcast that, you know, it's strange to write about somebody who I, I mean, David, you were very close to him. I was not. I mean, I felt very close to him, but so did anyone who saw him perform. Or even hung out with him. he's such a sweet yeah he was so nice and looking in the eye and just like shake your hand and be happy and they felt like oh that's why he was so lovable though oh this guy's my friend immediately

yeah howard said you know i didn't really know him and i said but you did you did because you saw him perform yeah that's basically what it was yeah and uh and so i i was i felt a little strange about writing as much as i did but it was pure honesty and he affected me and uh It impacted me greatly as he did everyone who got to know him. So, you know, I mean, it's fun to talk about how I got to write that sketch and that it played so well on the show. But it's all, Chris, you know. The show is always, the show is always performance. One of the things that probably bothered me was that S&L is always going to reward and celebrate a performance laugh.

over a construction story laugh. And as a writer, I'm wanting those two to at least be equal. Right. Or if not, lean in my direction, where you go, yeah, that performer who says man, he's all right, but the fucking idea, that's so well constructed. And that probably was Jack Handy, right? Jack Handy. Yeah.

Jack Handy sketch is a Jack Handy sketch. it is funny because Jack Handy is fucking genius and it does it you can put seven other actors in there if they're okay you're gonna laugh your ass off caveman lawyer I mean Phil was great but the concept of what it was it was just so Jack Handy

and Phil nailing it but just he's nailing a great piece of writing sketch that was written so well and Handy sketches you know like a fingerprint within a half a page at read through you like looking around going is this Jack Handy like it's immediately comes out of the gate. I would love to talk to you guys for five more hours.

I love you, Bob. Thank you for coming, man. Thanks so much. Yeah, Bob, it's been such a pleasure. You're right. We could go for five more hours. Hey, guys, if you're loving this podcast, which you are, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app. Give us a review, five-star rating, and maybe you can share an episode that you've loved with a friend.

If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe. We're on video now. Fly on the Wall is presented by Odyssey, an executive produced by Danny Carvey and David Spade, Heather Santoro, and Greg Holtzman, Maddie Sprung Kaiser, and Leah Reese Dennis of Odyssey.

Our senior producer is Greg Holtzman, and the show is produced and edited by Phil Sweet Tech. Booking by Cultivated Entertainment. Special thanks to Patrick Fogarty, Evan Cox, Mora Curran, Melissa Wester, Hillary Schuff,

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