Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade - RE-RELEASE_ Charlie Sheen

Episode Date: September 16, 2026

This one was special!

He came back talking about this guy named Tom Cruz. Oh. In my mind, I added a Z, and I thought he was Latin. I thought he was a Mexican or Spaniard or something, right? It was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, warlock or bust. Yeah. And I said that Dave, I said, if that, if that breaks loose, we're, we're clearly in, in the crush zone, right?

And I said, are you cool if I'm the last guy, like, on this planet that you interact? with. Charlie Sheen. Jelly Bean. Charlie Sheen is shining. Yeah. Charlie, we had one of our biggest clips off of this show. It's when Emilio comes in at the beginning.

Two brothers together. It gave it a lot of pop. And it was spontaneous. That was really fun that happened. Yeah, millions of views on that one. And it's fun to have the clips out for things like that. I think that was up there with our. fight club, Ed Norton Clip, which is hanging in there around 15 million.

You never know. It's fantastic. It's unreal. They just keep chugging out there. A lot of tentacles. But yeah, Charlie has done so much in this town and so much. Everyone knows him obviously two and a half men, but he goes back to Platoon on Wall Street. Yeah, we really go over his career a lot. Yeah, with a fine-tooth comb. And how he and his brother, Emilio, just came out like hot as a pistol in the 80s with their movies and stuff. Then he shows up, it was great.

So it was very interesting, very thoughtful and interesting interview with Chuck Sheen, Charlie Sheen. Here he is. Here comes. Hey, what song is this, Charlie? What song? Here he comes again. Looking bad. What is that?

The body has a right. I don't recognize it. Here he comes again. All right. Our producer said here he comes. So I just stopped up to my head. Yeah, I think we're good. Awesome.

Thank you, bro. Thank you. Charlie, this is a great place if you're a termite. It's Emilio Estabez right there. Can he hang out for a second? Because that was my first thing I wanted to talk about. Emilio, you want to remember me.

You mind? This was one of my things because I wanted to not bore the shit out of you. Emilio, I just want to, you're in my research. I'm not making this up. I was like, because I was like, holy shit. I saw the doc, I saw you guys doing all little superates and all that. And then you're fucking, you do, you got, there's red dawn, but you do platoon, Ferris Bueller, Wall Street, major league.

Your brother does the outsiders, repo man, which is a personal favorite, breakfast club, San Amles Fire, and then you connect with young guns. So what the. fuck that has never happened in history you both were like children little tiny kids becoming movie stars like that anyway that's why that's all i wanted to melia we just want to tell you you're a fucking stud yeah i mean you guys are like he he he can't hear you because i'm on the i'm on the oh my god we can't hear me yeah we gave him a hundred compliments and now he gave you a hundred compliments and it was all love and it was about the breadth of our of our combined films

in that in that time frame and he said then we did all that we're giant movie stars as children yeah so we were all we were all the same when i was a waiter till i was 24 would he tell him that he said he was a waiter till he was 24 yeah it wasn't in that boat wasn't in that boat um anyway all right amelia oh sorry we can't hear you but nice to see you buddy thank you bro thank you i appreciate it's great to see it that's cool that's that's that's cool. That's a treat. That was most of your time, Charlie. That was most of our time. We look better

in person. Don't think of this, what you're seeing now. We're pretty good looking, David and I. I just saw Charlie at the fight. Yeah, that was pretty cool, wasn't it? You know what? Let me tell Dana, the funniest thing you said is right when I said Michael Irvin had his legs

wrapped around your chair talking to someone behind him. And you go, I don't think Michael Irwin knows Spatial awareness. I mean, it was an astute observation, wasn't it? It was perfect because the chairs were this wide. Right. They were little plastic chairs.

I go, Ted, Serendos is in front of you. I was like, Ted, I want to talk to you about the shitty chairs when you get one second. It's too late now, but maybe for the next one. And they were all tied together with zip lines. They were zip tied together. Yeah. Yeah. Well, spatial awareness is a funny word.

It's a funny term. What you're doing, Charlie, when it comes to comedy. that was funny. You could have said in a lot of different ways, but facial awareness, because we're stand-ups. That's all we do. So, well, he's a film star, but yeah, you're a comedian. I was looking at some of your rants. We can go wherever you want, but they're all really fucking funny. That's what really struck me about that era of Tiger Blood and everything.

I mean, they're comedically like, I'm sure other people are. It's actually funny on top of everything else. It's not the rantings of a madman. It's a comedian, unleashed, you know. Wow. Okay. I've never heard it described as such. Are you on drugs? Yes, I'm on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen.

That's like rhythmic. And how are you doing? Winning. Not just I'm winning. By the way, these jokes are to like Katie Kirk or this most flat audience, Savannah Guthrie going, uh-huh. You have a bit, a lot of problems in your life. You're like, or do I? I'm on Coke. And they're like, well, you're laying down.

Imagine you didn't even know at the time because the whole idea, which I think in therapy, they should use these quotes because they're funny and they're self-affirming. They're kind of saying, fuck you, get out of my way. We all want to have that feeling sometimes. But I looked at them as the work of a comedian. I mean, they're just really, are you bipolar? I'm by winning. I win here.

I win there. Now what? This is funny. They picked a fight with a warlock, you know. I mean, it's just funny. I don't know if anyone is, we're trying to think of stuff that you haven't been asked because I know this is our second interview

around the book of Sheen. You've done one interview and then this. And then this. Yeah. So we wanted to surprise you, but there are things I wanted to talk about. That's one of them. But David,

have you any questions? Go ahead. Charlie has a quick question. Charlie has a quick question. Charlie. I just want to point something out. If I say, um,

you've picked a fight with a warlock, right that's like um that that that implies that i would have experience with that or i'd have some kind of yeah perspective or context with that right i've never picked the fight with a warlock no i think that's kind of a just a life rule that that that you don't you see a warlock you don't pick a fight you know no and we all know i don't even know specifically what my image is but warlock kind of means like some sort of weird mythological creature you don't want to go near exactly Exactly. Did you have any alt?

Did you have an alternative to Warlock? It was just boom. It just comes out. It was warlock or bust. Yeah. He's got the phrases that are very catchy, but no one has ever heard. Do you own these? They're all over online.

Charlie, part of it is when you're in these interviews and I watch these people with a lot of it, unfortunately, is fake concern for you. You know what I mean? They're like, hey, are you okay? And you're like, what do you give a shit? Do you really care? You're like, are you calling the kids every night? You're like, do you want to babysit my kid?

At a certain point, you start to go, are you really, really, if you really care, I'll tell you these answers. But you're kind of trying to get a pickup piece for your clip for the news or for your show. And so you're using me to go, oh, I'm going to be the concerned person condescendingly asking Charlie. You're like, I have $100 million. Is it horrible right now? And that's kind of a weird place to be in where they're like, do we envy you or do we feel sorry? You know, because you had a lot going. Yeah, no.

But when somebody poses those questions, what do you think would have happened if I had said, I'm not? And how do you plan on helping them? Yeah, what are you doing? Like, do you have a guest room? Do you have a stocked fridge? Yes, there are crudette anywhere that I can. have access.

Right? Yeah. So it's like Facebook moms putting on Facebook. I don't like when you showed a picture of your kid in the front seat. You should never like, what do you care? Are you really, you really that worried. Anyway,

we got so much to talk to Charlie about. I also want to just insert one thing on winning and also the way you said winning. Winning, you know, did that influence Trump kind of? Because he really works a word and he really, you're going to be winning so much, you're going to win, you win. I don't know. There is something about that word. Did you win? Yeah, I'm winning. I'm winning more. You know, I don't know. It's just an interesting interaction historically, but who knows?

Right. But the book gets into the genesis of that material. Oh, that's why I'm so happy to hear, the book of Sheen. Yeah. Thank you. And it's, you know, I kind of kept it, kept it a secret for years that it wasn't my original material, that it was, it was insert. it into my brain sort of as a pep talk like a couple days earlier by a baseball player from the giants named Brian Wilson, a guy nicknamed the beard. Remember the beard? Oh yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I was watching a highlight package of his and I told my pal Tony Todd. I said, hey, I'm going to talk to that dude. And the next day I was on the phone and he just rolled out all all that stuff, the stuff that the material that turned into slogans and T-shirts and folk songs and everything else, right? And so, yeah, but then I couldn't really say in the middle of that that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, you know, tsunami that I was cresting on a nuclear surfboard, right?

I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't say, by the way, all that shit was borrowed. That t-shirt wearing not my stuff. I just had to roll with it. And then about midway through the whole, all the chaos, I spoke to him and I said, hey, man, I'm sorry. I feel like I stole your stuff. And maybe you had, uh, plans to use it elsewhere. And he said, no, no, no, no, no. it's fine. I said, and you're probably thinking that you got it into the wrong brain and hence the wrong mouth. And he was like, well, you know, it's, I never quite saw it going this far. But if someone's going to borrow your material, then then spread the love. Why not? Well, yeah, because it was the timing and the way you delivered it. And it's you saying it on all over the place. It's you saying it in the rhythm. I don't know if he was, because that was your rhythm, right? The winning thing was originally delivered with that inflection.

With the high pitch to winning. Winning. Yeah. Yeah. I know. And that's why it got, it got, you know, logged in there like that. So his material, but then I think through my filters and, you know, through whatever else was going on, it became what it did, you know. Right.

Because he was being interviewed sometimes by contrarians or whatever. trying to talk to you, and you were just coming back with something so extremely different than anyone would expect that that was part of the comedy of it. I don't know if he had people interviewing him, you know, in that way. But it's interesting. Also, losing isn't quite as catchy. It doesn't. Losing. It really isn't. It really isn't. How We Made Your Mother is the How I Met Your Mother rewatch podcast with me, Josh Radner, and Siri's co-creator Craig Thomas. Our guest today is the great Bob Odenkirk.

I want to tell you, that cast, Allison and Kobe and Neil and Jason and you, you were so upbeat and how the spirit that you guys had was like, I actually thought it was like, are you being, are you mocking this? Are you being sarcastic? Follow how he made your mother wherever you get your podcasts. Charlie, here's a dumb question. Oh, go ahead. You got one question.

Go ahead. He can talk too, though. You can talk whenever you want. Thank you. Have you and I ever met, Dana? I don't think we've ever met. I don't think so either. No, I'm meeting you now. Yeah.

We almost, Fred Wolf was doing some kind of movie and you were in it and so I didn't do it. Yeah, mad families. Yeah. And I was for a while I was going to do that, but I just was doing standup or whatever I was doing. But we would have met then. Yes. Yeah. And David and I had a scene together.

Do you remember this? Oh, that's right. And Matt families. Yeah. Remember I like rewrote it and I turned it in like three pages and I came to you like five minutes before we were going to shoot it. I'm like, let's do it this way, man. I was fucking hammered, dude. I was hammered that day.

And apologies. No. But we did, we did have a nice vibe and a nice rhythm and a nice thing in that scene, didn't we? Yes. I remember that was, Naya Rivera was in that movie? Little, was Little rel in it? Little rel. Yeah.

Little rel. and yeah, I do remember coming to do one scene and I had to speak with everybody. I don't remember enough about it, but if we did a collab that I hope it came out, right, Mad Family sort of was, we call it under the radar because it was on crackle. It was on crackle.

Yes. Crackle turned into an app. It was supposed to be like Netflix and then it kind of wasn't. It sounded like Norton. Very much. It kind of wasn't. Wasn't.

Yeah, they kind of bailed on it. You know, Charlie, do you remember the story of Tom Hertz, try to put a show together with us? And it was after you left two and a half men. Okay. Tom Hertz, in all his wisdom, was working on two and a half men for years, I guess. Then he came to do rules of engagement, another show that I did. No, Tom, Tom was on Spin City.

I think also Spins. Oh, Spin City, and then he came to us. Because he had worked with you and he knew you. Sure. And then he came to me and said, what about you and Charlie doing a show? And I said, isn't Charlie a little bit in the dog? CBS? It was literally in the middle of all that.

And he says, well, Las Moonvez likes this idea. I was like, he does. Even in the middle of Charlie, I think either you guys were suing each other. There's some pure chaos. And I was like, well. and then it kind of fizzled out but I thought it would have been fun back then that was a, it would have been kind of a fun pairing.

Yeah, so it, no, it would have been awesome and so it would have been that instead of anger management, right? Oh yeah, maybe, yeah, that's right, I think that's what you went into next. Oh, yeah. Was an anger management was a 90-10 deal? It was 10-90, yeah.

Yeah, those deals Dana where you'd shoot, it was sort of a new formula where you'd shoot 10 episodes and if they liked it, they'd buy the back 90. So it's very interesting because you gamble and Charlie gamble and won again. And he got 100 out of it, right? Yeah, we got to 100, but it didn't catch fire like we were kind of hoping, you know? Sure. But it's interesting.

It's literally like a 10-episode pilot. Yeah. And so then they take the average number from those episodes that air. has to get above a certain threshold. And if that happens, then it activates the next 90. And you get a piece of 90. 100 episodes and you get back end on it or participation? Exactly.

Yeah, you take a lot less upfront salary, but you have an ownership position that's pretty significant when they work. But this one, because I wasn't ready to go back to work. Was it right after two and a half men? so it's hard to like go right to a show. It was about six months after. Yeah, that's pretty fast. Yeah, yeah, which for me probably felt like a weekend, you know, at the time in the

middle of all that, yeah. And Dana, you wouldn't like it. It's like two in a day. Don't you shoot like you shoot faster? Yeah, and there's no audience. And sometimes you're doing two shows a week or you didn't finish the second show from last week. So you start the week with that.

So you're really trying to focus. on three shows that week, and it's just, and it doesn't, yeah, I think a lot of the process suffers, you know. Not the thing to get you off drugs, that's for sure. Definitely not. No. No. Certainly not.

Most of the casts end up on drugs when they do the 1090 thing. I'm sure. Because of the pressure. I heard of my friend, a friend of mine that we all know just did a 1090 deal or 90, whatever we call it. And I don't think it kicked in. So it's the gamble. You know, you're betting on yourself.

And I think it's a pretty good gamble. I probably would have done one of those because it's something. You get some money, but there's a big, a high reward. Sure. Wait, your friend did one recently? Recently. That's what I had heard.

Oh, they still kicking those around? Wow. Because I thought they kind of went away. Was it a multi? I'm pretty sure it would have been a multi. That's probably the fastest you can do it. Yeah.

Okay. You know, I'll tell you after, but. Because I don't want to say anything about his real name because maybe he would feel like, oh, it didn't get picked up. Got it. I'll tell you after. And that's very interesting, though, that the 10-90 could still be floating out there. When syndication isn't quite as valuable, obviously, you were sort of one of the last,

not the last, but your show, two and a half minute, which is still on, you know, honestly, too much. And it's on probably 12 stations at any given time. When was the end? I mean, it was that when this, the, when this, uh, the, the, uh, the, syndication thing started to slowly die. Big Bang was one of the biggest endings. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. He had modern family. You know. When, when was it on as far as like, when was it like actual broadcast?

Yeah, the blog when syndication was a really big thing still, you know, because that was Seinfeld, the 90s and so forth. But I guess it got that pop and you were making a really good, a good salary. Yeah, you know, I mean, I was, I was trying to negotiate my. way out of it. I was I was waiting for them to say it's you know all right we're done seven is plenty this guy's asking for the moon we can only afford the only guy in America trying to get himself out of like a huge show. So by asking for so much money to get out basically? Yeah I was calling their and then they said yes okay they said yes because I had a conversation with my manager when I was in rehab when they were trying to negotiate for eight and nine and I felt like

Seven had just, I kind of just reached my limit. I didn't see that we had a lot of stories left to tell, you know, and I just, I'd completely lost a passion, tons of, tons of shit in the background in my personal life that wasn't, you know, I'm not, I'm not blaming anyone, but it was making the job just more complicated than it had to be, you know, and, and I told, I told my manager, Mark at the time, I said, if I, if I go back, I have a hunch that something is going to go, it's going to go horrible. The dam's going to break. Damn's going to break. Yeah, man.

Now, do you think that was a self-fulfilling prophecy? Do you think I just knew that that's how the planets were going to be misaligned? Well, I think you know when you get overwhelmed. I think you know, I mean, everyone says money is the key thing. But when you already have money, you've been rich probably since Apocalypse now. You've had money, a couple of beans in your jeans. All right. Not Apocalypse now, Platoon.

Red Dawn, he got back end on red. Red Dawn. Yeah, it was over. It's still paying. Yeah. Red Dawn covers those Honda Accord payments just alone. So you got that. And then you go,

everyone's, your life is great with money, but it sounds stupid, but it does complicate a lot of things. And you've got so many complications going on. And I think you had a trailer on the set, as opposed to addressing them. Did you have a bus or something?

I had a tour. I had a tour bus. A tour bus. That's what I had heard. Yeah. I was jealous when I heard. I had a marathon coach. It was pretty cool.

Right outside the stage. door probably, right? Like, we walk out and then, so you shoot. It was right there. You shoot and you go in and wait and then you come back in and do your scenes. So you can do whatever you want in there, obviously, and probably took advantage of that.

Two and a half, not so much. The stuff before it and the stuff after it very much so much. Yeah. When did you first feel like incredibly wealthy? Was it after Wall Street or when

Or for you, you know, you're in your early 20s. When did you kind of go, holy shit, I'm a millionaire or I'm close to a millionaire, you know, Teddy stuff, right? It was probably like in mid-90s. Okay. Yeah. But there was. About when you're about 30.

Yeah. Yeah. But there was a moment early on when I got my first acting paycheck from Grizzly, from Grizzly to the predator or the revenge as they retitled. The movie Grizzly. They did a sequel. Yes. Yes.

Yeah. And so I made two grand a week and I was there for three. I made six grand. I didn't care. I didn't know about taxes or any of that shit. And I went to the bank and just took it all in cash. And I walked into a clothing store and there were these two kind of fancy vests, not like a western vest, but like a camping vest, right? And I couldn't decide on the color.

It was like a blue one or a freaking green one. And I was like, I'm going to take them both. Whoa. Yeah. And they were like, you know, 40 bucks each, 60 bucks each, whatever. And just laid out the cash. And literally in that moment, I felt, okay, all right. This is, I'm feeling like a big shot.

Sure. And I think you all take both. And then you go, you like that shit? And the lady goes, oh. There's more where that came from, bitch. Why are you being aggressive? I don't know, bitch. Maybe it's the money.

Winning. How old are you? I hate to end up. I did a police academy movie and I was making not much money, but it was no more than I ever had in my life. And I saw some pants in the window in Toronto. And I went in and the lady goes, those are $60. It was like pretty woman. Like those are for rich people.

And I go, I'll take them. And she's like, whoa. Everyone in the store was like, whoa. And I was like, 60s, nothing to me because I got $100 in pretty them. So I bought it. I literally, there's very few. few times I felt richer. We all have that story.

You know, I was interesting, and I'm sure this in the book that you'd think, hey, Martin Sheens' dad, he's growing up like a billionaire, you know. And obviously in the documentary, it's pretty middle class, you know, it's not fancy pants. You and immediately, you guys didn't have money. Go ahead. You can see our house in the background of a lot of the Super 8 stuff, you know, and it's not a mansion. Documentary.

It's not a manicured freaking. No, no. It's very, it's funky and cool. Great for a kid. But I was wondering if anyone in that posse, like I'm fascinated by Sean Penn and. Sean, when did you mean?

Rob Lowe or are your friends? Did anyone have a silver spoon or you're all kind of middle class in a sense? We were all middle class. Rob's, the lows came in a little later. And the reason, you know, he wasn't excluded intentionally.

but the footage that the director, Andrew Renzi, chose to incorporate was from, you know, like the younger, younger years, you know. I think by the time I started making those films with Rob and his brother, Chad, I think that, I think video tape came into play. It was actually, do you remember this thing called the, it was like a Polaroid brand,

but it was a Polaroid video camera? Do you remember this? I never heard of once. It developed in the player while you were waiting. Whoa. And then it played it. It was called Polar Vision, I think. So that's, you know, yeah.

So we were sort of in the cutting edge of like as the technology was improving. But no, his, his, the Lowe's dad was still in Ohio. And their stepdad was a psychiatrist. They lived right down the street. Sean's parents, a director, actress. You know, they were married until the day they both died. And so, but nobody was, nobody was rolling. Nobody was driving a fancy car or fancy duds or, you know, picking up a check.

So, yeah, it was, it was really a cool time to just experience all of that and not have a ton of excess and special effects and bullshit sort of in the way of, of, of those memories, you know? And Super 8 or whatever that was is so, it's just emotional, you know. And I think it's funny, like every kid who ever got a whole of a camcorder or whatever, they always want to do war scenes or crime scenes and want to do a death scene. Like, ah, you know. Sure. Did you have a good go-to move?

Like, oh. Yeah. The platoon move is a big one. Will and Defoe? Oh, yeah. The whole, yeah. The crucifixion. That's been reenacted all over.

Yeah. I actually, I have that as a sticker in my phone that I send people. When I know how to respond, it's just defoe. It's like that. So if you get that, it just means I'm stumped, you know. Fucking send me that. It is interesting of like the trifecta. I think you, for Vietnam War films, you know, you'd say deer hunter, platoon, and

Apocalypse Now. and there was a sheen in two of them. And I think that that film really, along with Wall Street and others, really holds up. You know, Platoon has some magic to it. Would you put full metal jacket in there anywhere or no? I put anything Kubrick does is a given, yes. Yes, I would. That's a good call.

Full metal jacket. Anything Kubrick pretty much, you know. Sure. Just magic. You know, Poplips now, brilliant. Masterpiece. Masterpiece. And Deer Hunter, you know, the Mao!

Ow! You know, with Christopher Walkin, one of the greatest, most intense scenes ever made. So, yeah. But you're part of that, and it's pretty cool. Thank you. Thank you. Charlie, what movies did you turn down that sting the most? And I'll tell you which one.

If it's opportunity, Knox, I'm so sorry. If it's Tommy Boy, I'm going to be me. I'm so sorry. It's between you and me. No, go ahead. I turn down white men can't jump. Oh, for what, I guess, who was you going to be Woody or was? I would have been Woody.

Yeah. And then just coincidentally, a bit later on, I think it came after, maybe before, I turned down indecent proposal. Whoa. So I kept waiting for Woody to send me some flowers and thank me for advancing his career like I did. Those were big. I found indecent proposal. You know, I'm a huge red from fan. God rest is all.

and to me more and everything. But I just found the movie very depressing. Woody's character was so like, I mean, that was the only thing I'd say about Dodge. I don't know. It just wasn't my favorite movie, although it's skillfully,

brilliantly done. I just was like, I couldn't get past the thing that, all right, they did that. He's got the money to, you know, to lessen this thing a little bit.

Yeah. And then spends it all on that Chotchkey, right? Right. Like the little jade elephant or something? Yeah. Yeah. Or am I misremembering?

that. No, there was something weird. It was very... The show his love was real and it wasn't about money and it wasn't about this. But they still have to stay married and live with that moment. Right. With the thing, with Threadford. Which is tough. Right. You don't get money. Charlie's agent wrote back. Charlie likes it, but wants to tweak the ending. Pretty much. And they said, we're pretty locked in the ending. He said, that's a pass from Charlie. That's pretty much how much how much. Did you see Brokeback Mountain and call your agent?

Why the fuck wasn't I up for this? I have to admit, it's kind of one of those films that's always been on that unseen but need to get to at list. You know, and I think that we all sort of have. Yeah. So I never saw it, but I hear it's fabulous. Well, it's, yeah, it's, it's a little heartbreaking. But yeah, the performances are exceptional, you know. Sure.

Yeah. Good fellas. Good fellas. We're up for that. I was not up for good fellas. No. Karate Kid. Karate Kid is one that I actually had.

I don't know if I could classify it as turning it down or describe it as turning it down. It's in the book. It's in the doc, I think. And that I just asked for some time because the advice from my dad was, was to stay, to honor my word with Grizzly. And because I'd already, you know, committed to that. Fucking Grizzly comes into the picture again. That fucking bear, that bear ate me twice, right?

Jaws on land. Grizzly. So he said, if, if they wait for you, it's meant to be, if they don't, then it's your, you know, your reputation, being a man of your word is going to carry you further than one big movie. From a far, I do have a lot of admiration for your dad. I did meet him and I did something with him one time. It was just a charity event.

We were all doing Shakespeare with Tom Hanks. Oh, wow. You? Yeah, well, it was kind of like pretend fun Shakespeare. Was it in the park? They do that in the summer. No, it was in Santa Monica and theater. It's a reading, right?

Isn't it a reading? Yeah, but then we all go on stage and sort of get around and our reading. You know, I'm doing impressions and things. in that Shakespeare. One thing I was going to ask is people who've been in brilliant films around brilliant people, the,

you know, you've been across your partner, man or a woman and went, damn, you know, this person is exceptional or someone who kind of took you back a little bit, but just how great they were at this thing called acting.

Sure. Who might those people like that? I wanted to bring up the elevator scene with your dad. That was one of the, those moments. When you actually get distracted because you're, you've become an audience member and then wait, but you're in the scene and shit,

it's my line. You know what I mean? It's like those moments. And I had, I had some of them with Michael Douglas on the same movie. Definitely had him, definitely had him with dad. Even though he's only in it,

you know, just a little bit, James Spater in Wall Street. I was kind of like going, oh shit. So they're doing it like that now. You know what I'm saying? It was like this whole,

Cool thing. And then, yeah, it, who else? Who else? Oh, shit. Michael J. Fox. Yeah. When we had a couple, we had a couple scenes together. He had transitioned out and I had stepped in, but he wanted to stay close enough to it to, like, to bridge the transition, you know?

And yeah, we did some scenes together and it was other level talent. I was like, whoa. He's stout. I mean, you look at back to, you take a look at it back to the future. I was like I'm doing Trump. But that's hard to do, you know. And I know he replaced Eric Stoltz, who probably was great. But to be light, play it dramatic and ride that whole wave of those movies.

Yeah, Michael J. Fox is, I don't know if he's underrated or appropriately appreciated. That's a great. That's a great question. But it's interesting because there's a thing that I do describe in the book. And it's, it's really there for a reason. You know, not just to celebrate and to honor him, but also because that's like, that's my last outpost before going on to two and a half. So I was kind of symbolically implying like, okay, I borrow it a little bit from this dude, you know, because there was tons flying off of him and took it over to that thing. And we know we saw how that thing went, you know, so.

Well, it's rare. Can you imagine how excited when they get two and a half men together. and Chuck Lorry and the cast is there. And then you're just, you're winning, you're killing it. Like, because it is a skill set and you started in Spin City. But then it's hard to find a leading man, handsome leading man, who can also be very funny, you know. So they must have been, you know, high-fiving at some point behind the scenes.

Like, you know, just because you're great at this too, you know. Thank you. Thank you. But it was all, it was just. playing the straight man, you know? And when I did it in the hot shots. But yeah, and some of that. Hot shots, that's right.

Well, when I did it in Hot Shots, I was borrowing, you know, a lot of stuff from Leslie Nielsen. Yeah. Who better to borrow from? That was the theme of, that was sort of the feel. Love that movie, Hot Shots. Oh, thank you. Thank you.

Really fucking funny. And then I was borrowing stuff from Ted Danson on Cheers for two and a half. But I know he's a sober bartender. and I was a drunk jingle writer, but just as far as the straight man. And, you know what I'm saying? He's kind of the anchor and all the craziness revolves around, you know, orbits his star, his planet.

But you're not putting huge spin and overacting. You're not like Kramer. You know what I mean? You're just saying your lines and they sell themselves with good writing and they know how to write for you. It's hard to be a funny straight man like Andy Griffith was. to Barney fights. Especially coming from you guys, come on, two, you know, veterans

and, you know, extremely successful veterans to get comedic compliments from you guys is really badass, so thank you. Well, don't you and your own personal life, you know, kind of fall in love with talent? You know, it's just kind of fun to watch, you know, and I was just, this was maybe a clumsy thing, but, you know, I thought of people who'd get out fast, you know, and it's a rare,

but it's kind of common that are very talented. Like, I'm talking about Woody Allen and I'm talking about the Beatles, Bob Dylan, you know, by 21, 22, Brando, and you were kind of in that group in a way. I'm just saying loosely because you came out so good and showed so much talent. But, you know, who it musically? Who's your North Star? like when you the canon of rock and roll

are you pink Floyd or are you are you Neil Young or Led Led Zeppelin Oh I just watched that documentary on the plane Becoming Zeppelin They were pretty good

Yeah Yeah I think they got a shot That's probably legendary front man Led Zeppelin Yeah what did you think of the doc Did you like it? I thought it was pretty good You know I always like when it gets to more

I don't always like the beginning I like to know just to where I knew them you know, and, but it was very interesting and everyone loved it. So I watched it on the plane, it was perfect. I ate it up very quickly. Yeah, yeah, it's excellent. What was your thoughts? I love playing. I would have liked that they got to

if they'd taken it to Zep 4. Right, it could have gone longer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because that's the one. Because they only started to get to the stuff I really liked and I was like, wait, is that it? It's over. I was like, go, go, go, go. Yeah. Oh, we're landing. That's true. It was interesting for a doc

to show them. I guess it was on a TV show, or somewhere, but you showed them really jam for like 12 minutes or something. Like really go song to song. I think they showed one full song. I think it was rock and roll. They showed the whole song. And I was like, this is the one that's probably, I mean, as good as any. Oh, question, Charlie, you collect things.

And I'm sort of been in your orbit. We're roughly the same age, roughly in showbiz. You're obviously doing a ton of stuff way more. but in a weird way, I remember I'd heard I was at an Elvis auction at Butterfield and Butterfield in the old days. I sometimes buy collectibles and shit. I think you're in a maybe baseball card,

so I've always heard that. Was there an Elvis green Amex you bought ever? Because I think I had my eye on one of those. Wow. I didn't know. I think Charlie Sheen got it for $50,000. That's the kind of rumor that you want to embrace. That's a cool one.

That's cool. Because then when the bill comes, everybody's kind of waiting for you to drop that thing. You can buy. That's too cool. Dana, I bought an Elvis set list, you know, like he wrote on some Michigan Hilton. He was writing all the songs like Love Me, Tinder, his handwriting and shit. Oh, wow. And so I bought that, and I bought a gunny hat, and I bought something else.

But I wanted this Amex, but it was too rich for my blood. What did it? Because I didn't buy it. This is the first time. hearing about this Elvis auction. It sounds awesome. How much did the AMX go for? 50,000. 50,000. And that was 20 years ago. Because I was at the auction and Joey Esposito was there. So they were like authenticating stuff. And I bought a watch. And I don't have, I don't think anything left from that because I lost the set list. But I bought stuff before and I thought, oh, I think Charlie does

maybe baseball cards or just or maybe baseballs. I don't know. But yeah. Are you in and out of that biz or not? I've sold everything. Okay. And I should have come to that garage sale. Jesus Christ. What did you, what did you sell that was a little bit like? I had, geez, I had something like from every era.

I had a lot of Babe Ruth stuff. I had that famous long white overcoat that he's seen in tons of photos. Oh, had the coat? Oh, you had the coat? Yeah, yeah, I had the coat. I mean, it's probably more than one, but I had, one of three probably. I had a lot of jerseys, had a lot of caps, a lot of hats, some great bats.

But there was a turning point moment where, because I had these cool cases built at my house up in Malibu Lake years ago, and I had been to the Hall of Fame for the first time. And I thought kind of, this is back in 1991. And I thought how they had set it up was a bit shoddy. I thought this stuff. I could see like a moth, like down in the corner. behind the glass. And I was like, what are they doing?

Right? Yeah. And so I was inspired by it. I wanted my cases in my house to be like nicer than the Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, right? And so we brought in the right people and they delivered that, right? But then a couple years later, I was looking for something. I opened a dresser drawer up in my bedroom. And there's a 1941 Ted William's.

Road Jersey, like just folded nicely and in the drawer. Wow. I had that, you know, it's the area hit, you know, 406 and all that. And I had that moment of if I don't have room on a wall for this, like, this is the last time that anybody ever did the thing he did while wearing that, then I need to, I need to recirculate a lot of my, these artifacts and antiques and just let others enjoy them. And then I, Leland's put together an auction. And it was all sent back out in the world, you know?

And some cards are not a Honest Wagner card or was it? I had one called like the five pinhole card because they're so graded so anally and they have to describe everything. And I guess I guess some kid back in the 20s like was sticking it up on a, on a board or somewhere in his bedroom. Oh, and it was holes in it. Yeah, but don't you think you'd at least just keep using the same hole? Not these kids. Five holes.

No, those dipships. They're ruining cards for the future. I don't know. Yeah, they really were. But I'm sure that went a little pricey. Yeah, it was up there, but not nearly when that Wagner card really got everyone's attention. Flew up. When Gradsky partnered with, was it McNaulul?

And they paid like, what did they pay for? that like 500 grand, everybody was like, this is out of control. And now, now you think about that, that's like chump change, right? Yeah. I mean, all that stuff. Just keep, it's one of the few niche places that just keeps going up faster than stocks. It's just when people have a passion and they collect their passion. And even, you know, Jay Leno probably has made more money or, you know, he won't sell his cars.

No. But he probably, if he did, he made more money off his passion than he's. easily, comedic career. You know, I have a friend who collects antique bottles, and his collection is worth $3 million. He's just dug them out of the San Francisco Bay because it was all landfill, and you go in there at night, I went with them,

and you dig where they're excavating a building, where you're digging down a hole, and then you see this little two inches of ash, and that's 1906, the earthquake and the fire. Then you go further, and you're pulling out shoes and stuff. Once in a while, you get a bottle that's worth $50,000, you know. So it's interesting to, further and you're in China.

Yeah. You know, one thing I was going to ask Charlie about because I was seeing, you know, Cooperstown has this. I want to have more. And we all have this 10-year-old boy inside of us. And sometimes it's necessary to have success is just to have a fair play competitive instinct. They do that. I mean, Nicholas Cage was so competitive.

I did a movie with him. And we just made fun of the competition, you know, because Kurt Russell was in Tombstone. and he had a line in the movie, you're going to throw down, boy! If you remember the movie, to Billy Bob Thornton, who weighed 220 pounds. So when Nicholas thought I did something good,

you threw down, you really threw down today, you know. Wow. What film did you guys do? The films I do aren't even on video and they're banned from Earth. No, it was trapped in paradise.

Oh, wow. We wandered around in the snow. We fell around in the snow, me him and John Lovitz, for three months and somehow they put something together. Okay. But Nicholas was a blast. He is, isn't he?

One of the funniest and brightest guys I've ever met. Was he one of your Malibu guys up there or no? Nicholas Cage, your relationship with him. Yeah. No, he's not a Malibu guy. He was a town guy and a Bay Area guy sort of back and forth, you know. I'm sorry, what was the last question? Well, I just wanted to know about your relationship with him, you know,

because you guys kind of hung out. I know there was, you know, extracurricular activities, but just as a person, I found him very charming. He's one of my favorite people. We don't see each other enough, but when we do, it's quite special. Yeah, because you talk about his intellect, you know, and then you wrap that inside of this, you know, landish sense of humor, just that is rooted somewhere outside of what us mortals can grasp.

And it's an insane and beautiful mashup. He never saw acting as having to be accurate. He just found that you could do whatever you wanted with it. So he's doing a scene. It's this cheesy movie. And he's supposed to come in and kind of ask for forgiveness for this girlfriend or something like that. And he goes, I'm going to do Daniel Day Lewis for me. in the name of my father in this take.

So he comes, all of a sudden he comes out, screaming, falls to his knees, why, why, why? And I was like, you can do that? I mean, he's a unicorn. There's no rules with him. There's no rules with him. And to have that kind of courage inside that those spaces is, it's to be marveled at, you know?

Yeah. Oh, I got some. But was Tom Cruise in any of your early movies? Did you know he was going to be a big deal? We knew, yeah, pretty soon because when Chris, Sean's young brother, Chris Penn, dropped out of high school and bumrushed that set of taps on the other side of the country, he came back talking about this guy named Tom Cruise. In my mind, I added a Z, and I thought he was Latin.

I thought he was a Mexican or Spaniard or something, right? And then when I met him, I was like, oh, you. you're from Oklahoma and then he smiles and and then you start to engage his personality and his intellect and you're like yeah this guy this is there's something going on here for sure but amelio and he became really tight because they um they were auditioning for the outsiders at the same time and helping each other prepare for their auditions you know and then they both got it the different roles um and they've they've they've been great friends ever since so i was You know, I was younger than them, so I was kind of like tagging along.

But anytime I've, you know, seen Tom over the years wherever, he's awesome. You know. Well, it's just become these last few years, it's like you sort of just stand back in awe, you know, because I'm basically a baby. You know, I may be hung from a wire once, but, you know, he's hanging on airplanes. And I know like I'm strapped down. He's holding his breath for six minutes. I mean, you can't even. What the fuck?

So you have to see the movie. What the fuck? Yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Do you think at some point he's going to want to get back to like a magnolia? Right.

Right. Oh, yeah. Right. Which was a work of art. He was spectacular in that. Yeah. You got to respect the cock. I'm sorry.

Was that it? That was it. That's it. Yeah. He said it better than I did. But yeah. He's a force of nature. It's funny because Sandler has.

the ability to go from a Paul Thomas Anderson movie to a big broad, happy go more. And he goes back, Noah Baumack, then he goes back to abroad. And I think Tom obviously can do anything he wants, but you're right. These are important, but Mission Impossible to Top Gun. It's huge, huge blockbusters, but would he want to go small again? Would he want to go, he could get an Oscar? He's great. I think if Christopher Nolan called him or somebody like that, you might get his attention.

I think so. I think so. I mean, he does want to make movies that fill theaters and give people that, that, that, that experience that they, that connects them back to their childhood. He's the savior of that. I think he's made himself the guy, the spokesman. He and the filmmakers know this, but it was in Roman Holiday a long time ago, but basically nonverbal with music. So the end of Top Gun, you have a six minute montage of the end of the movie of people tearing up, no real dialogue and saluting. And we, we're alive. And we're alive. And we're, we're alive. And we're. did this and I've seen other films do that F1 and where there's this silent movie added onto the movie and it's very affecting you know that three or four minutes where you're seeing them in tears looking at each other and it's uh all a lot of the blockbusters are using that now so it's just kind of interesting to me but Top Gun really got me emotionally because you know I hear

Hans Zimmerman I hear just the music I'm kind of it gets me emotional and then you see Tom Cruz is really good at hugging someone coming back. He's got this look and the teary eyes in the kitchen. Yeah. Yeah. He insists that we experienced that moment with him. Right. Right.

Yeah. Now, is that the first top gun that you're referring to? Or is that the second one? Got it. Got it. Okay. Yeah. Which came out of nowhere was an in-moving theater big hit when the industry really needed

it, obviously. And they tried to, they tried to stream it, didn't they? Whoa, not on his watch. No. No. No. He stuck to his young gun. Speaking of that in 1988.

Thank God they didn't wait 30 years between Grizzlies. Right? I mean, that would have been a disaster, you know. Shit, I think we're out of time, Dana. I think we got to, I think we had to wrap with Charlie Sheen. Any wrap up questions for this guy? Not really. I think the book is the book of Sheen, the documentary.

I mean, we, you know, we consciously, we talked about it. We didn't want to, we, we know you've done a lot of press. We wanted to make this lighter and more fun and wanted to pick your brain about relationships with your dad or whoever. Sure. No, this has been incredibly refreshing. Good. That's what we wanted.

Thank you. And if I'd like to believe that I get invited back. Yes. That'd be amazing. And then we can do it like and be in the same room. Are you feeling okay? with the thing that happened or? Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm totally.

Okay, I'm just fine. Just wanted to get, didn't want to give you anything, but yeah. No, no, and thank you. I appreciate that. But I do have a question for David. Yes, good. And there was a weird moment during the fight, right?

And as soon as, like I'm, you know, and Michael Irman, he's a lovely man. He's just beautifully all over the place. But what a good dude. But when, when I look, over and I see Dave's name on the chair next to me. I was like, okay, all right. I'm going to have some backup. Reinforcement's coming. I don't know why I thought that, right? Yeah. So he sits down and I'm like, did they plan this knowing that this was already scheduled, right? So they finally

cut the chairs apart. Everybody's having a great time. And I look up and I see this giant rig, like where they had speakers and the lights and the thing. It weighs like, you know, 400,000 tons, right? And I said to Dave, I said, if that breaks loose, we're clearly in the crush zone, right? And I said,

are you cool if I'm the last guy like on this planet that you interact with? And he took a beat. Took a beat and said something to the effect of, Yeah, yeah, I think I'm okay with that. And I said, good, because I'm okay with it being you too, you know? And so I really bonded there. I felt like we bonded there, man.

And clearly it didn't fall. But is that weird? No, but I like that you put that in my head. I think I was taking a beat because I was thinking, what are the, does he know something I don't? Is this going to fall? And then Marshawn Lynch sat in front of me and blocked 110% of the fight. Oh my gosh. His head is this big.

I go, wait, is the fight over? I go to watch on the screen now. Oh, Charlie. I do that all the time. Can this fall or is this going to flood? Also, Dana, they show Michael J. Fox on the screen and I go, for no reason. You can tell he's still mad at you, Charlie.

That was funny. That was funny. Based on nothing. It was fun to be at the fight with Charlie. Laughing. Do you mind doing Michael J. Fox casualty of the war? for Charlie. Oh, me?

Remember that movie, Charlie? I do. I love Michael J. Fox. And Sean Penn is grabbing this. Yeah. And he's like, hey, Sarge. You got to give me a minute on this here, Sartch. Oh, Christ, she's just a farm girl, Sarge.

What are we doing here? That's amazing. It gets me every time. It's such a pure, specific. impression. Michael J. Fox in that movie I was like, and Clarkie was John C. Riley and Sean Ben's like, fucking Clarkie throw it out

and take her clothes off. I'm like, hey, we got to get these V.C. gooks. These V.C. gook. I'm like, what is this movie? I thought it was a fun comedy because it was Michael C. Fuck. I'm like, this movie took a dark turn and never turned back. Yeah, they're just there, and whatever.

And Sean was hard on him during that film, wasn't he? Oh, on Michael's Fox pro's method acting I had heard about that yeah yeah apparently he was just you know none of the didn't didn't want to

because he's like you're a sitcom guy kind of with that maybe that but also just the character just oh yeah just staying character yeah resentment you know yeah yeah yeah alpha alpha yeah do you know I've only I've only worked with Sean

on two and a half men I've only really Sean in a in a comedic setting he was brilliant it was our first episode second season and he's in a men's group. And it was Elvis Costello and Harritin Stanton and me and Bobby Cooper. It was awesome. But isn't that a trip that the first time he and I actually do it professionally?

I thought he was one of year old movies. No, just the stuff you see in the dock where he shoots me in my own backyard. And then stuffs me in the refrigerator for Emilio to discover later on. It was nuts, you know. Yeah. He can be very funny, though. I think he went on Friends. It was very funny.

Such interesting character. We know, S&L and he did the read-through, I go, ah, this guy's talented. Oh, right on. Right on. Charlie, we'll do it again, and we'll do it. We got more to talk to you about because you have just too much. All right, listen, if you're enjoying the fly on the wall, of course,

hopefully you are. Click follow. We don't want to be desperate, but obviously smash that goddamn button on your favorite podcast app. Smash it. Leave a review, a good one. Leave a five-star rating, nothing else. Whoops. And maybe even share an episode with a friend.

If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe, Dana. What do you think? I'm going to tell you this right now. Him and I'll believe me later. Fly on the Wall, believe it or not, is presented by Odyssey. And executive produced by Hold For It, Dana Carvey and David Spade. Or David Spade and Dana Carvey. We don't write this stuff.

Heather Santoro, Greg Holtzman, and Leah Reese Dennis. The show is edited by Evan Cox. with production support from Phil Sweet Tech. Talent production and booking by Sophia Lippor.